WEBVTT - Starting a Business With Zero Dollars with Alan Donegan #247 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.520 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:05.840 Matt and today we're discussing starting a business with zero 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:27.960 dollars with Alan Donnegan. Yeah, Joel. Alan Donnegan is our 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:30.760 guest today and he is one of the co founders 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.280 of pop Up Business School, which is on a mission 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.840 to change the way entrepreneurship is taught. They're getting folks 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.879 to create their own sustainable startups by not taking on 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.040 massive amounts of debt. When almost half of new businesses 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:46.120 fail within their first five years, it's clear that this 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.000 is the type of guidance that is needed today, especially 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.280 given the uncertain times that we're living in. Allan's motto 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:56.080 is fail fast and fail cheap, and through trial and error, 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:58.840 he has built up his own business without ever having 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.720 taken on any debt. So today we're going to dive 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:03.840 into his story as well as how you can start 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.920 a business with zero dollars. So Alan, thanks so much 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.080 for joining us on the podcast. Matt, Joel, I've been 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:12.840 looking forward to this. Hey, we have to Alan, We're 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:14.800 really excited to get a chat with you today. And 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.399 by the way, on every episode, Matt and I we 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.039 drink a craft beer because it's something that we love. 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:23.559 And today we're drinking a stout by one of my friends, John, 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.840 who's got a little microbrewery called Little Cottage Brewing, And 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:29.039 I'm really excited to have this one on the show today. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:31.720 But Alan, what is your craft beer equivalent? What's something 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:33.880 you're willing to spend money on in the here and 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.040 now while you're also trying to save and invest well 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:41.640 for your future. Actually it's Lego. Lego is my craft bear, 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.160 like the toy Lego. The toy. Yes, don't judge me. 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:50.440 I'm a forty one year Lego. There's actually a term 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:52.520 for what we are. It's a a f o l 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.240 adult adult fan of Lego, and I am a huge 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:59.640 fan of that. So I spend money on Lego sets, Dude, 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.440 that's all. Sometimes I love that. I love what kind 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:03.480 of the outside of the box things that people bring 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.000 to the table when they're passionate about something. I think 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.040 when people are passionate about kind of things that that 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.200 aren't mainstream. So I dig your Lego addiction. Man, I 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.239 don't know. I feel like Lego's pretty mainstream, like in 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:15.480 some of the malls which are all closed by the way, 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:17.520 but like I know here in Atlanta, like you have 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:19.720 what is it the like Lego Land? Is it called 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.560 Legoland Alan? When you visit Atlanta will take you to 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:24.200 Lego Land. But like you can go there and they've 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:26.000 got all the different kits and I don't know what 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.160 you call them, ellen, but just the different packages that 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:30.919 you can get where you can build stuff. But how 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:34.040 do they categorize these different things that you buy, Like 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.600 when you buy say, like the Death Star, do they 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.720 say that like this is a two thousand piece Lego 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.480 set or like like is there a difficulty rating? When 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.920 it comes to some of those different models. They have 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.760 age ranges on the front of them, which I always 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.080 find using, like how old you have to be to 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.919 do them. I tend to buy the sixteen years plus 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.200 sets to make sure that there's a bit of a challenge. 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.200 But they do these range of modular buildings where you 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:03.919 can actually build yourself a mini Lego city. And that's 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.760 my dream one day is to build a Lego city. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:09.440 That's what I want to do. Very cool. I know 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.440 I've seen some Frank Woyd right kits where basically you 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:17.399 can recreate some of his most famous pieces of architecture 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.400 that he's created like falling water, Like you can get 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:21.440 that in lego for him and build it and then 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.600 have it slowly fall into the river over a matter 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.440 of decades. Well, Ale, tell us about your overall view 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:31.880 towards money and how it was influenced by your upbringing. 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.760 You know, in particular, there's a story involving a suitcase 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.360 of money that your that your dad brought home one day. 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.760 But yeah, how did you view money as a child. Yeah, 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:45.040 money was heavily influenced by my family. We had a 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.480 huge amount at one stage, and then we had nothing 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.720 at another stage, and my dad ran his own business, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.440 and I always remember in the early days, he came 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.040 home one day with a giant suitcase of money after 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.080 having done a deal, and my little brother and I 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:03.240 we were probably eight and six or maybe a bit younger. 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:05.920 We sat in the lounge and he tasked us with 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.880 putting all of the notes the same way around so 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:10.800 they were ready to be paid into the bank the 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.600 next day. And there was like a hundred grand in cash, 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:15.440 and you had to put all the queen's heads the 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.640 right way around. Um. So it was kind of the experience. 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:23.480 And he always had cash about until he went bankrupt, 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.880 and he went bankrupt very significantly for three point six 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.560 million pounds, so about five million dollars. And that was 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.039 way back in the eighties nineties. It's a massive amount 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:40.159 of money back then. And we were then doing car 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.480 boot sales or what would you call them, like yard 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.640 sales to raise enough money to be able to buy 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:51.719 food for the week. So my upbringing had a huge 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.560 impact on the way I think of money and specifically 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:58.120 my aversion to debt. Sure. Yeah, it seemed like that 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.400 there was a very maybe had of very fluid view 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.359 of money, you know, I mean, having experienced plenty of 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.560 money but then also having experienced not having enough. Um, 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.200 it was something that maybe hopefully that you had control over. 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:11.919 But yeah, I'm sure that had a lot to do 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.120 with that. Yeah, And that always like those childhood memories 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.840 of money and what it was like, like how your 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:19.479 parents talked about it and how they handled it, and 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:21.320 the things that you saw in front of your very eyes, like, 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.160 they impact us so heavily. Alan, So I gotta think 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.600 that that has just left this massive imprint on on 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:29.440 the way you've moved forward in your adult life and 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.120 how you handle money today. What's the beliefs that get 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.840 repeated to you, the things like money is the root 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:38.880 of evil, all evil. A family member actually repeated to 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.920 meet that to me this week. And it's really interesting 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.760 when you hear these beliefs that people have about what 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:50.200 money is, especially as it's an inanimate object, and if 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.000 you want to really get a grasp of your finances, 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.680 you need to change the way you think about it 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.960 and what you believe about it. And money isn't the 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.919 root of all evil. It's the things people do to 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:06.279 get it or to hold onto it. And actually, when 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.479 I've started to change my beliefs in the way I 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:12.960 think about money, it's more regularly flowed into my life, 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:17.080 and I now believe money is an amazing tool and 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.000 you can do incredible things with money. So I look 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.599 after it and I respect it, and it's quite high 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.119 up my values list because it is an important tool, 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.000 is an important resource, and life is a lot more 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.880 difficult without it. Sure, yeah, that's very true. Alan. It 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.240 seems like every entrepreneur, and you are an entrepreneur to 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.720 a t has some sort of like hustle story from 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.000 their childhood. They gave them kind of a taste of 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:43.760 what it could be like to be. They're they're very 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.840 own boss. So what was your first entrepreneurial endeavor when 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.919 you were a kid. My first one was actually the 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.039 best business model ever by the moment. Would buy the 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.039 ingredients for some food. I would make Mars bar cake, 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.440 which I don't know if you ever had Mars barquape. 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.679 You basically get rice crispies and then melt Mars bars 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:08.440 and butter over it. It's indulge in. It's incredible. And 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:10.160 then I would go and sell at school and I 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.800 would keep all the profits. So I had a hundred 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.600 percent profit because I didn't buy the ingredients and it 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.480 was incredible and I made money. Um. And that carried 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.680 on and actually when I was at college, which is 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:26.160 sixteen to eighteen in England, I made more money in 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.080 college than I did at my first jobs through side 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:34.800 hustles selling stuff. Um. And that led to realizing that 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:38.080 actually you can make good money doing this stuff. M Yeah, 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.120 I like that that. I like how I mean, there 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:41.600 are certain lessons that I feel that we try to 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:43.880 teach our kids, including and I was like, well, you 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.640 gotta payback mommy and daddy for the supplies and all that. 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.680 But there's something to be said about starting things off 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.440 on a very positive foot, and positive is a very 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.920 positive but off on when you're trying to instill some 0:07:57.960 --> 0:07:59.800 of the lessons that you can teach your kids with 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.400 our trepreneurship, right. But you know, so Alan, like, obviously 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.400 it seems that you were maybe like you're going to 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:06.400 be an entrepreneur no matter what you know. With your 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.640 dad being in business. It sounds like your parents encouraged that. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.800 But like, in your opinion, do you think that everyone 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.960 is cut out to be an entrepreneur? Well? I think it, 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.080 Like so, just for me, it wasn't guaranteed. My mom 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.840 didn't want me to be an entrepreneur, didn't want me 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.440 to go and neither did my granny. They both wanted 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:27.760 me to get a straight job to follow that route, 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.960 and I did for many years and actually from the 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:35.520 ages of twenty three to eight, I did the corporate 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.160 job stuff. I just didn't fit in. Um So I 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:43.080 think it's interesting when you look at people's paths, but entrepreneurship, 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.440 that's back to that question, are you born an entrepreneur? 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.400 Can you learn it? I think there are beliefs and 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.680 thought patterns that are installed in you as when you 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.839 are young, that will help you to be an entrepreneur. 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:00.680 But I truly believe anyone can learn this stuff if 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.800 they want to. And that thing that people say, I 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:07.800 am not an entrepreneur, well that's just because you haven't 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.760 done it yet. Let's have a go and then you 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.400 can call yourself an entrepreneur and then you'll start to 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.720 make progress. And I think it's learned skills. There you go. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.800 So what typically then, Alan stops people, in your opinion, 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:24.360 from starting in business, starting that entrepreneurial endeavor that they 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.640 really would love to get going. But yeah, what's the 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.800 thing holding them back? Typically? I'd love to know. Matt Joel, 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:35.320 do you think entrepreneurship is risky? I think most people 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.240 would say that it is. But actually I've come around 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.080 over the years because I think I was ingrained to 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:45.280 be less entrepreneurial minded more work for someone else, and 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.679 I've grown to see that actually that's pretty risky putting 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:50.880 all your eggs in one basket as opposed to maybe 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.360 a more diversified basket of entrepreneurialism. Yeah, I mean, and 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.439 like you said, Alan, I think a lot of times 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:00.160 the safe route is what's taught in the US as 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.040 well as maybe the UK. But you know, going to school, 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.880 getting a degree, getting a safe, dependable job, that seems 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.800 to be kind of like the slam dunk option for 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:14.959 for most folks. And entrepreneurship because it's not taught, because 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.320 starting your own business isn't taught, I feel that it 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:20.840 is viewed as more risky because it's you know, it's 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:22.880 the it's the fear of the unknown, essentially, and so 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.400 when you're not taught something, there's reasons to be scared 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:26.960 of something if you don't know how it works. You know, 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.600 like if you know nothing about electricity, you better not 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.400 mess with electricity because you know, you might kill yourself. 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:34.559 And so I think there can be times when people 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.480 take that and they apply it to maybe entrepreneurship as well, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.280 because they don't exactly know how it works and they 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.200 think that they could potentially mess things up. But but yeah, 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.520 I don't know if that answers your question, but it does, 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.800 and there's actually a lot there because you're right, the 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.040 standard path is what gets taught. Go to school, get 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.560 good grades, go to college, get good grades, get a 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.880 good job, follow the job, get a pet, get a house, 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.520 proof you can't kill the pet before you have a kid, 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:05.400 have kids, work for fifty years, retire at seventy. Die. 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.920 That's the standard plan for life and anything outside that 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:16.200 people consider risky, especially entrepreneurship, and it's predicated or based 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:20.080 upon the belief that it takes money to make money, 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:24.240 and nearly all entrepreneurship starts with make a list of 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.280 the stuff you need to start your business, put a 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.880 dollar or a pound amount against it, and work out 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.360 how much money you need to borrow to start up. 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.560 And the whole thing is based on I need money 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.360 to start. And if you're going into debt to launch 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.840 a business, it is risky. It's highly risky, but it 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.480 doesn't have to be that way. There are so many 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.040 ways to start without ever going into debt. And if 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.520 you start without debt, what you're risking is a little 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.480 bit of time and energy, not dollars, and I think 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.760 that's the distinction. You do have to take risk, but 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.240 you can choose the type of risk. So you can 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.920 choose whether it's risking time, energy, or money or a 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:11.040 combination of all three, and you get to decide which 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.040 risk you take. Yeah, so an I don't note, I 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.400 mean you're you're talking about traditional business plans essentially, right, um. 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.520 And you've mentioned before how those business plans that like 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.080 they're essentially worthless, you know, but every article that you 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.520 ever read about starting a business like that list that 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:30.679 out as as one of the most necessary parts of 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:32.840 getting the ball rolling. So you know, in your opinion, 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.840 why don't these business plans actually work well? I think 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:41.640 there's a few reasons, Um. Number one is, business plans 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.960 are often written in isolation before you've even spoken to 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.800 a customer, and people have these ideas and thoughts in 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.640 their head. They put them on the paper, but they've 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:55.959 never tried them in reality. My opinion is, try it first, 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:00.720 and then afterwards, maybe you write out what found out. 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.040 And I did exactly this. I spent two weeks writing 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:08.640 a business plan. It was beautiful, had colored graphs, it 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.480 was gorgeous document. I put it in the draw and 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.320 then I went to see a real life customer and 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.360 I learned more in an hour's conversation with a real 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:20.800 life customer than I did in two weeks of research 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.760 on the internet and writing a business plan. And basically, 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.400 they said to me, we don't want what you've written. 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.480 Our problem is something else, and then I had a 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:35.080 choice in that moment to either stick with my business 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:40.200 plan or to quit and change and sell what the 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.560 customer actually wanted. And so what I would say to 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:45.600 you is, before you write a business plan, before you 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.320 do anything, go speak to a real customer. That's where 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.640 the learning is UM. But most people think you need 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:54.880 to write the business plan, then you need to take 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.280 it to a bank and borrow the money, or you 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.440 need to get the money from somewhere, and you just 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.960 don't have to do that. Yeah, well, we want to 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.800 hear all about alan your specific steps in how to 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.360 start a business with zero dollars or zero pounds, depending 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.440 on which side of the pond people are listening to 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.960 this this episode on. But there's one story that has 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.360 stuck out to me that you've shared before, and I 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.680 think that's a good kind of set up for us 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.080 as we begin to then ask those questions about how 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.640 the specific steps people can take. Can you tell us 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:30.680 about how you help the homeless man start a business. 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.400 It's this kind of inspiring story that I think UM 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.760 can help all of us see maybe the hidden ways 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.600 in which we have resources at our disposal that we 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.280 just haven't even thought about so one of the very 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.280 early pop up business schools, one of the ways we 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.920 teach people how to start a business with no debt 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.680 is to sell what they've already got. So if you 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:52.520 look around your house, you've probably got a load of 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:57.320 old DVDs, old stuff, board games, who knows what it is. 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.440 We can sell that race and money and use that 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.640 to start the business. And there was one guy in 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.240 the audience who at the time was homeless, and all 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:10.400 he had was a backpack, a old iPad with a 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.800 crack screen, and the clothes he was wearing. And he 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.440 just looked at us and went, well, I don't have 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:20.480 anything to sell. And we were thinking, well, how can 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.600 we help this guy raise some money to get going. 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.680 So we actually asked the question, do you know anyone 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:30.960 who does have something that you could help sell? And 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:32.840 he thought for a minute, and he thought about some 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.320 of his friends, and he said, well, okay, I've got 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.560 a couple of friends who do live in nice houses, 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:42.160 and they've got garages full of stuff that they don't use. 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:44.920 She said to him, well, why don't you do a 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.600 deal and help them to clear out their garages and 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.840 sell off the stuff and then keep a percentage of 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.440 the profits, and that's what he did. And I think 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.600 one of the things about entrepreneurship is there are so 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:03.120 many opportunity if you get yourself into a resourceful state 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.080 to look for them. And there's always something you can 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.600 sell or something you can do to raise money to 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.480 get to where you want to be. And there's a 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:16.760 million businesses we could start straight away that you could 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:18.920 do without debt. And it might not be your dream 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.880 business to start with, but it will help you get 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.600 to where you need to be. Yeah, there's ways for 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.000 us to be resourceful and scrappy even yea, even when 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.400 we have very few contacts, even when we have very 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.920 few resources, uh, you know, to our own name. So Alan, 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:36.680 like Joel mentioned, we're gonna talk more about the steps 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.239 that we can take in order to get our businesses 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.440 off the ground, and we'll get to those right after 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:53.400 this break back from the break we're talking with Alan 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.280 don Agan and we're talking about starting a business, hopefully 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.240 with no money. So Alan, you've already given us I 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.120 think you know, and it's hiring story there and we've 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.680 already covered some ground on the lack of a need 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.159 for a traditional business plan in order to get started. 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:09.920 So if we don't need to write the business plan, 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.239 what is the first step in getting a business off 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.880 the ground? In your opinion, the first step, I mean 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.199 you need an idea, you need a thought of what 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.440 you're going to do. And the question we actually ask 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.159 of the pop up business school is what do you 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:26.080 enjoy doing? What do you do where time vanishes? What 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.080 do you enjoy spending your time on? And then let's 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.760 figure out how to make money doing something you enjoy, 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:37.000 because if you enjoy doing it when it gets tough, 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.879 and it will get tough at a certain point, that 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.760 enjoyment is what keeps you coming back and makes you 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.560 want to get up on a Monday morning and do 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:48.880 it even if it is hard sometimes. So we start 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.400 with what do you enjoy? Then we start to think 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:56.280 about what do people want? And actually businesses about fixing 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.679 problems for customers. So if we can find what you 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.680 eno oi and who needs that service, that you can 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.440 fix their problems and then we just go and sell 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.800 it to them. And actually, if we were to say 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.240 how our method is different to the traditional the number 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:17.240 one way is that we start with sales, but nearly 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:22.320 all business training programs end with sales rather than starting 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.800 with them. And I think the quickest way to learn 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.520 is to get out there in front of a real 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.720 customer and ask them if they want to buy what 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:33.240 you do. Yeah, so, yeah, Alan, you I mean you're 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:34.960 you're kind of mentioning that when we're talking about the 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.240 business plan, you're pretty keen on selling before you take 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.760 you know, some of these big boy business steps, and 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:42.960 so can you talk more about that, like why are 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.240 are you all about skipping these other traditional business formation 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.439 steps and starting with selling because you don't know if 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:55.919 anyone wants it whatever it is you're planning. Absolutely, And 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.280 this is actually what happens so many times. It's why 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.000 so many entrepreneurs around the world to have garages full 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.200 of stuff they can't sell because they bought a load 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.679 of things, they've made a load of T shirts, they 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.159 produced it before they've sold it, and then they find 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.399 that no one actually wants it. I say, do the 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.440 exact opposite. Before you write the training course, find someone 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.440 who wants it before you produce the T shirt, Sell 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:25.320 it from the design before you build anything. Sell it first. 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.040 Then you know if someone wants it. But that kind 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:33.080 of brings us to the question why don't people sell first? 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.840 Like what puts them off? And Matt and Joel. If 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.119 I say to you the words salesman, what's the first 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:47.199 word that comes to mind? Salesman, schmarmy, Like salesman in 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.200 and of itself, it is just a negative kind of exactly. 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.920 And so even that the term itself has this negative 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.040 attached to it, and so that yeah, if you if 0:19:58.080 --> 0:19:59.840 you say a salesman, it's like, oh, I don't want 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:03.240 to be that. Yeah, and I'm They're telling everyone to 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.600 start a business, you have to sell, and they have 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.960 this instant reaction of yuck. I don't want to be schmimy. 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:10.440 I don't want to be pushy. I don't want to 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.880 have a shiny suit, I don't want to sell used 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:17.520 cars like get away from me sales. And it's really interesting. 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:23.480 I've run that exact exercise in Africa, in America, in England, 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.880 all around the world, and it's the same reaction to sales. 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:31.359 They think it is pushing something on someone. So the 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:35.800 first step is actually to realize sales is about finding 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:40.440 someone with a problem that you can fix. So what 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:44.160 I would do is I would identify how my service 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:48.040 or product makes someone else's life better, and then I 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.560 would go around asking people if they have the problem 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:55.159 that I fix, and if they do, that's when I 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.760 can pitch them the product or service. Sales is not 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.880 about pushing stuff on people. Sales is actually the process 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.280 of making the world a better place. And if you 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.639 look at it like that, you suddenly get inspired to 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:12.280 go out there and sell more because every time you sell, 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.760 you make someone else's life a little bit better and 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:20.680 you get slightly wealthier. Yeah. I dig that, So I think, yeah, 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.520 we need a sea change maybe in just kind of 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.120 our mindset about what sales means. And I think that's 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.280 a good reframe. Uh So. Yeah. Another piece of traditional 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.920 advice Alan is that people need to take on debt 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:35.520 in order to get things off the ground. In order 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:37.399 to get the business started, you need the seed money. 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:39.840 And you know this this whole episode, really, this is 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:41.320