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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and

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Speaker 1: Matt and today we're discussing starting a business with zero

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Speaker 1: dollars with Alan Donnegan. Yeah, Joel. Alan Donnegan is our

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Speaker 1: guest today and he is one of the co founders

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Speaker 1: of pop Up Business School, which is on a mission

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Speaker 1: to change the way entrepreneurship is taught. They're getting folks

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Speaker 1: to create their own sustainable startups by not taking on

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Speaker 1: massive amounts of debt. When almost half of new businesses

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Speaker 1: fail within their first five years, it's clear that this

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Speaker 1: is the type of guidance that is needed today, especially

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Speaker 1: given the uncertain times that we're living in. Allan's motto

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Speaker 1: is fail fast and fail cheap, and through trial and error,

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Speaker 1: he has built up his own business without ever having

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Speaker 1: taken on any debt. So today we're going to dive

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Speaker 1: into his story as well as how you can start

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Speaker 1: a business with zero dollars. So Alan, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us on the podcast. Matt, Joel, I've been

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Speaker 1: looking forward to this. Hey, we have to Alan, We're

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Speaker 1: really excited to get a chat with you today. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, on every episode, Matt and I we

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Speaker 1: drink a craft beer because it's something that we love.

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Speaker 1: And today we're drinking a stout by one of my friends, John,

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Speaker 1: who's got a little microbrewery called Little Cottage Brewing, And

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to have this one on the show today.

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Speaker 1: But Alan, what is your craft beer equivalent? What's something

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Speaker 1: you're willing to spend money on in the here and

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Speaker 1: now while you're also trying to save and invest well

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Speaker 1: for your future. Actually it's Lego. Lego is my craft bear,

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Speaker 1: like the toy Lego. The toy. Yes, don't judge me.

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Speaker 1: I'm a forty one year Lego. There's actually a term

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Speaker 1: for what we are. It's a a f o l

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Speaker 1: adult adult fan of Lego, and I am a huge

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Speaker 1: fan of that. So I spend money on Lego sets, Dude,

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Speaker 1: that's all. Sometimes I love that. I love what kind

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Speaker 1: of the outside of the box things that people bring

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Speaker 1: to the table when they're passionate about something. I think

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Speaker 1: when people are passionate about kind of things that that

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Speaker 1: aren't mainstream. So I dig your Lego addiction. Man, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I feel like Lego's pretty mainstream, like in

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Speaker 1: some of the malls which are all closed by the way,

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Speaker 1: but like I know here in Atlanta, like you have

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Speaker 1: what is it the like Lego Land? Is it called

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Speaker 1: Legoland Alan? When you visit Atlanta will take you to

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Speaker 1: Lego Land. But like you can go there and they've

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Speaker 1: got all the different kits and I don't know what

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Speaker 1: you call them, ellen, but just the different packages that

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Speaker 1: you can get where you can build stuff. But how

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Speaker 1: do they categorize these different things that you buy, Like

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Speaker 1: when you buy say, like the Death Star, do they

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Speaker 1: say that like this is a two thousand piece Lego

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Speaker 1: set or like like is there a difficulty rating? When

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Speaker 1: it comes to some of those different models. They have

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Speaker 1: age ranges on the front of them, which I always

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Speaker 1: find using, like how old you have to be to

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Speaker 1: do them. I tend to buy the sixteen years plus

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Speaker 1: sets to make sure that there's a bit of a challenge.

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Speaker 1: But they do these range of modular buildings where you

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Speaker 1: can actually build yourself a mini Lego city. And that's

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Speaker 1: my dream one day is to build a Lego city.

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Speaker 1: That's what I want to do. Very cool. I know

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Speaker 1: I've seen some Frank Woyd right kits where basically you

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Speaker 1: can recreate some of his most famous pieces of architecture

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Speaker 1: that he's created like falling water, Like you can get

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Speaker 1: that in lego for him and build it and then

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Speaker 1: have it slowly fall into the river over a matter

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Speaker 1: of decades. Well, Ale, tell us about your overall view

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Speaker 1: towards money and how it was influenced by your upbringing.

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Speaker 1: You know, in particular, there's a story involving a suitcase

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Speaker 1: of money that your that your dad brought home one day.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, how did you view money as a child. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: money was heavily influenced by my family. We had a

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Speaker 1: huge amount at one stage, and then we had nothing

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Speaker 1: at another stage, and my dad ran his own business,

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Speaker 1: and I always remember in the early days, he came

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Speaker 1: home one day with a giant suitcase of money after

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Speaker 1: having done a deal, and my little brother and I

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Speaker 1: we were probably eight and six or maybe a bit younger.

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Speaker 1: We sat in the lounge and he tasked us with

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Speaker 1: putting all of the notes the same way around so

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Speaker 1: they were ready to be paid into the bank the

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Speaker 1: next day. And there was like a hundred grand in cash,

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Speaker 1: and you had to put all the queen's heads the

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Speaker 1: right way around. Um. So it was kind of the experience.

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Speaker 1: And he always had cash about until he went bankrupt,

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Speaker 1: and he went bankrupt very significantly for three point six

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Speaker 1: million pounds, so about five million dollars. And that was

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Speaker 1: way back in the eighties nineties. It's a massive amount

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Speaker 1: of money back then. And we were then doing car

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Speaker 1: boot sales or what would you call them, like yard

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Speaker 1: sales to raise enough money to be able to buy

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Speaker 1: food for the week. So my upbringing had a huge

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Speaker 1: impact on the way I think of money and specifically

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Speaker 1: my aversion to debt. Sure. Yeah, it seemed like that

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Speaker 1: there was a very maybe had of very fluid view

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Speaker 1: of money, you know, I mean, having experienced plenty of

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Speaker 1: money but then also having experienced not having enough. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was something that maybe hopefully that you had control over.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm sure that had a lot to do

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Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, And that always like those childhood memories

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Speaker 1: of money and what it was like, like how your

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Speaker 1: parents talked about it and how they handled it, and

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Speaker 1: the things that you saw in front of your very eyes, like,

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Speaker 1: they impact us so heavily. Alan, So I gotta think

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Speaker 1: that that has just left this massive imprint on on

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Speaker 1: the way you've moved forward in your adult life and

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Speaker 1: how you handle money today. What's the beliefs that get

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Speaker 1: repeated to you, the things like money is the root

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Speaker 1: of evil, all evil. A family member actually repeated to

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Speaker 1: meet that to me this week. And it's really interesting

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Speaker 1: when you hear these beliefs that people have about what

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Speaker 1: money is, especially as it's an inanimate object, and if

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Speaker 1: you want to really get a grasp of your finances,

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Speaker 1: you need to change the way you think about it

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Speaker 1: and what you believe about it. And money isn't the

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Speaker 1: root of all evil. It's the things people do to

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Speaker 1: get it or to hold onto it. And actually, when

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Speaker 1: I've started to change my beliefs in the way I

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Speaker 1: think about money, it's more regularly flowed into my life,

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Speaker 1: and I now believe money is an amazing tool and

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Speaker 1: you can do incredible things with money. So I look

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Speaker 1: after it and I respect it, and it's quite high

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Speaker 1: up my values list because it is an important tool,

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Speaker 1: is an important resource, and life is a lot more

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Speaker 1: difficult without it. Sure, yeah, that's very true. Alan. It

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Speaker 1: seems like every entrepreneur, and you are an entrepreneur to

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Speaker 1: a t has some sort of like hustle story from

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Speaker 1: their childhood. They gave them kind of a taste of

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Speaker 1: what it could be like to be. They're they're very

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Speaker 1: own boss. So what was your first entrepreneurial endeavor when

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Speaker 1: you were a kid. My first one was actually the

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Speaker 1: best business model ever by the moment. Would buy the

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Speaker 1: ingredients for some food. I would make Mars bar cake,

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Speaker 1: which I don't know if you ever had Mars barquape.

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Speaker 1: You basically get rice crispies and then melt Mars bars

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Speaker 1: and butter over it. It's indulge in. It's incredible. And

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Speaker 1: then I would go and sell at school and I

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Speaker 1: would keep all the profits. So I had a hundred

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Speaker 1: percent profit because I didn't buy the ingredients and it

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Speaker 1: was incredible and I made money. Um. And that carried

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Speaker 1: on and actually when I was at college, which is

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Speaker 1: sixteen to eighteen in England, I made more money in

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Speaker 1: college than I did at my first jobs through side

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Speaker 1: hustles selling stuff. Um. And that led to realizing that

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Speaker 1: actually you can make good money doing this stuff. M Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like that that. I like how I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are certain lessons that I feel that we try to

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Speaker 1: teach our kids, including and I was like, well, you

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Speaker 1: gotta payback mommy and daddy for the supplies and all that.

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Speaker 1: But there's something to be said about starting things off

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Speaker 1: on a very positive foot, and positive is a very

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Speaker 1: positive but off on when you're trying to instill some

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Speaker 1: of the lessons that you can teach your kids with

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Speaker 1: our trepreneurship, right. But you know, so Alan, like, obviously

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Speaker 1: it seems that you were maybe like you're going to

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Speaker 1: be an entrepreneur no matter what you know. With your

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Speaker 1: dad being in business. It sounds like your parents encouraged that.

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Speaker 1: But like, in your opinion, do you think that everyone

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Speaker 1: is cut out to be an entrepreneur? Well? I think it,

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Speaker 1: Like so, just for me, it wasn't guaranteed. My mom

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Speaker 1: didn't want me to be an entrepreneur, didn't want me

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Speaker 1: to go and neither did my granny. They both wanted

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Speaker 1: me to get a straight job to follow that route,

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Speaker 1: and I did for many years and actually from the

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Speaker 1: ages of twenty three to eight, I did the corporate

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Speaker 1: job stuff. I just didn't fit in. Um So I

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Speaker 1: think it's interesting when you look at people's paths, but entrepreneurship,

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Speaker 1: that's back to that question, are you born an entrepreneur?

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Speaker 1: Can you learn it? I think there are beliefs and

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Speaker 1: thought patterns that are installed in you as when you

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Speaker 1: are young, that will help you to be an entrepreneur.

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Speaker 1: But I truly believe anyone can learn this stuff if

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Speaker 1: they want to. And that thing that people say, I

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Speaker 1: am not an entrepreneur, well that's just because you haven't

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Speaker 1: done it yet. Let's have a go and then you

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Speaker 1: can call yourself an entrepreneur and then you'll start to

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Speaker 1: make progress. And I think it's learned skills. There you go.

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Speaker 1: So what typically then, Alan stops people, in your opinion,

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Speaker 1: from starting in business, starting that entrepreneurial endeavor that they

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Speaker 1: really would love to get going. But yeah, what's the

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Speaker 1: thing holding them back? Typically? I'd love to know. Matt Joel,

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Speaker 1: do you think entrepreneurship is risky? I think most people

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Speaker 1: would say that it is. But actually I've come around

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Speaker 1: over the years because I think I was ingrained to

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Speaker 1: be less entrepreneurial minded more work for someone else, and

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Speaker 1: I've grown to see that actually that's pretty risky putting

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Speaker 1: all your eggs in one basket as opposed to maybe

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Speaker 1: a more diversified basket of entrepreneurialism. Yeah, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: like you said, Alan, I think a lot of times

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Speaker 1: the safe route is what's taught in the US as

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Speaker 1: well as maybe the UK. But you know, going to school,

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Speaker 1: getting a degree, getting a safe, dependable job, that seems

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Speaker 1: to be kind of like the slam dunk option for

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Speaker 1: for most folks. And entrepreneurship because it's not taught, because

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Speaker 1: starting your own business isn't taught, I feel that it

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Speaker 1: is viewed as more risky because it's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: the it's the fear of the unknown, essentially, and so

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Speaker 1: when you're not taught something, there's reasons to be scared

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Speaker 1: of something if you don't know how it works. You know,

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Speaker 1: like if you know nothing about electricity, you better not

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Speaker 1: mess with electricity because you know, you might kill yourself.

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Speaker 1: And so I think there can be times when people

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Speaker 1: take that and they apply it to maybe entrepreneurship as well,

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Speaker 1: because they don't exactly know how it works and they

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Speaker 1: think that they could potentially mess things up. But but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that answers your question, but it does,

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Speaker 1: and there's actually a lot there because you're right, the

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Speaker 1: standard path is what gets taught. Go to school, get

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Speaker 1: good grades, go to college, get good grades, get a

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Speaker 1: good job, follow the job, get a pet, get a house,

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Speaker 1: proof you can't kill the pet before you have a kid,

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Speaker 1: have kids, work for fifty years, retire at seventy. Die.

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Speaker 1: That's the standard plan for life and anything outside that

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Speaker 1: people consider risky, especially entrepreneurship, and it's predicated or based

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Speaker 1: upon the belief that it takes money to make money,

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Speaker 1: and nearly all entrepreneurship starts with make a list of

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Speaker 1: the stuff you need to start your business, put a

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Speaker 1: dollar or a pound amount against it, and work out

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Speaker 1: how much money you need to borrow to start up.

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Speaker 1: And the whole thing is based on I need money

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Speaker 1: to start. And if you're going into debt to launch

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Speaker 1: a business, it is risky. It's highly risky, but it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to be that way. There are so many

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Speaker 1: ways to start without ever going into debt. And if

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Speaker 1: you start without debt, what you're risking is a little

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Speaker 1: bit of time and energy, not dollars, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's the distinction. You do have to take risk, but

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Speaker 1: you can choose the type of risk. So you can

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Speaker 1: choose whether it's risking time, energy, or money or a

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Speaker 1: combination of all three, and you get to decide which

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Speaker 1: risk you take. Yeah, so an I don't note, I

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Speaker 1: mean you're you're talking about traditional business plans essentially, right, um.

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Speaker 1: And you've mentioned before how those business plans that like

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Speaker 1: they're essentially worthless, you know, but every article that you

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Speaker 1: ever read about starting a business like that list that

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Speaker 1: out as as one of the most necessary parts of

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Speaker 1: getting the ball rolling. So you know, in your opinion,

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Speaker 1: why don't these business plans actually work well? I think

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Speaker 1: there's a few reasons, Um. Number one is, business plans

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Speaker 1: are often written in isolation before you've even spoken to

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Speaker 1: a customer, and people have these ideas and thoughts in

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Speaker 1: their head. They put them on the paper, but they've

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Speaker 1: never tried them in reality. My opinion is, try it first,

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Speaker 1: and then afterwards, maybe you write out what found out.

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Speaker 1: And I did exactly this. I spent two weeks writing

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Speaker 1: a business plan. It was beautiful, had colored graphs, it

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Speaker 1: was gorgeous document. I put it in the draw and

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Speaker 1: then I went to see a real life customer and

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Speaker 1: I learned more in an hour's conversation with a real

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Speaker 1: life customer than I did in two weeks of research

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Speaker 1: on the internet and writing a business plan. And basically,

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Speaker 1: they said to me, we don't want what you've written.

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Speaker 1: Our problem is something else, and then I had a

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Speaker 1: choice in that moment to either stick with my business

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Speaker 1: plan or to quit and change and sell what the

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Speaker 1: customer actually wanted. And so what I would say to

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Speaker 1: you is, before you write a business plan, before you

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Speaker 1: do anything, go speak to a real customer. That's where

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Speaker 1: the learning is UM. But most people think you need

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Speaker 1: to write the business plan, then you need to take

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Speaker 1: it to a bank and borrow the money, or you

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Speaker 1: need to get the money from somewhere, and you just

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Speaker 1: don't have to do that. Yeah, well, we want to

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Speaker 1: hear all about alan your specific steps in how to

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Speaker 1: start a business with zero dollars or zero pounds, depending

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Speaker 1: on which side of the pond people are listening to

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Speaker 1: this this episode on. But there's one story that has

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Speaker 1: stuck out to me that you've shared before, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's a good kind of set up for us

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Speaker 1: as we begin to then ask those questions about how

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Speaker 1: the specific steps people can take. Can you tell us

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Speaker 1: about how you help the homeless man start a business.

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Speaker 1: It's this kind of inspiring story that I think UM

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Speaker 1: can help all of us see maybe the hidden ways

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Speaker 1: in which we have resources at our disposal that we

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Speaker 1: just haven't even thought about so one of the very

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Speaker 1: early pop up business schools, one of the ways we

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Speaker 1: teach people how to start a business with no debt

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Speaker 1: is to sell what they've already got. So if you

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Speaker 1: look around your house, you've probably got a load of

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Speaker 1: old DVDs, old stuff, board games, who knows what it is.

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Speaker 1: We can sell that race and money and use that

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Speaker 1: to start the business. And there was one guy in

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Speaker 1: the audience who at the time was homeless, and all

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Speaker 1: he had was a backpack, a old iPad with a

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Speaker 1: crack screen, and the clothes he was wearing. And he

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Speaker 1: just looked at us and went, well, I don't have

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Speaker 1: anything to sell. And we were thinking, well, how can

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Speaker 1: we help this guy raise some money to get going.

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Speaker 1: So we actually asked the question, do you know anyone

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Speaker 1: who does have something that you could help sell? And

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Speaker 1: he thought for a minute, and he thought about some

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Speaker 1: of his friends, and he said, well, okay, I've got

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Speaker 1: a couple of friends who do live in nice houses,

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Speaker 1: and they've got garages full of stuff that they don't use.

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Speaker 1: She said to him, well, why don't you do a

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Speaker 1: deal and help them to clear out their garages and

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Speaker 1: sell off the stuff and then keep a percentage of

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Speaker 1: the profits, and that's what he did. And I think

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Speaker 1: one of the things about entrepreneurship is there are so

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Speaker 1: many opportunity if you get yourself into a resourceful state

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Speaker 1: to look for them. And there's always something you can

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Speaker 1: sell or something you can do to raise money to

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Speaker 1: get to where you want to be. And there's a

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Speaker 1: million businesses we could start straight away that you could

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Speaker 1: do without debt. And it might not be your dream

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Speaker 1: business to start with, but it will help you get

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Speaker 1: to where you need to be. Yeah, there's ways for

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Speaker 1: us to be resourceful and scrappy even yea, even when

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Speaker 1: we have very few contacts, even when we have very

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Speaker 1: few resources, uh, you know, to our own name. So Alan,

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Speaker 1: like Joel mentioned, we're gonna talk more about the steps

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Speaker 1: that we can take in order to get our businesses

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Speaker 1: off the ground, and we'll get to those right after

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Speaker 1: this break back from the break we're talking with Alan

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Speaker 1: don Agan and we're talking about starting a business, hopefully

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Speaker 1: with no money. So Alan, you've already given us I

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Speaker 1: think you know, and it's hiring story there and we've

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Speaker 1: already covered some ground on the lack of a need

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Speaker 1: for a traditional business plan in order to get started.

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Speaker 1: So if we don't need to write the business plan,

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Speaker 1: what is the first step in getting a business off

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Speaker 1: the ground? In your opinion, the first step, I mean

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Speaker 1: you need an idea, you need a thought of what

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Speaker 1: you're going to do. And the question we actually ask

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Speaker 1: of the pop up business school is what do you

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Speaker 1: enjoy doing? What do you do where time vanishes? What

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Speaker 1: do you enjoy spending your time on? And then let's

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Speaker 1: figure out how to make money doing something you enjoy,

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Speaker 1: because if you enjoy doing it when it gets tough,

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Speaker 1: and it will get tough at a certain point, that

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Speaker 1: enjoyment is what keeps you coming back and makes you

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Speaker 1: want to get up on a Monday morning and do

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Speaker 1: it even if it is hard sometimes. So we start

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Speaker 1: with what do you enjoy? Then we start to think

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Speaker 1: about what do people want? And actually businesses about fixing

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Speaker 1: problems for customers. So if we can find what you

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Speaker 1: eno oi and who needs that service, that you can

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Speaker 1: fix their problems and then we just go and sell

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Speaker 1: it to them. And actually, if we were to say

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Speaker 1: how our method is different to the traditional the number

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Speaker 1: one way is that we start with sales, but nearly

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Speaker 1: all business training programs end with sales rather than starting

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Speaker 1: with them. And I think the quickest way to learn

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Speaker 1: is to get out there in front of a real

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Speaker 1: customer and ask them if they want to buy what

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Speaker 1: you do. Yeah, so, yeah, Alan, you I mean you're

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Speaker 1: you're kind of mentioning that when we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: business plan, you're pretty keen on selling before you take

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Speaker 1: you know, some of these big boy business steps, and

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Speaker 1: so can you talk more about that, like why are

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Speaker 1: are you all about skipping these other traditional business formation

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Speaker 1: steps and starting with selling because you don't know if

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Speaker 1: anyone wants it whatever it is you're planning. Absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: this is actually what happens so many times. It's why

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Speaker 1: so many entrepreneurs around the world to have garages full

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Speaker 1: of stuff they can't sell because they bought a load

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Speaker 1: of things, they've made a load of T shirts, they

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Speaker 1: produced it before they've sold it, and then they find

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Speaker 1: that no one actually wants it. I say, do the

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Speaker 1: exact opposite. Before you write the training course, find someone

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Speaker 1: who wants it before you produce the T shirt, Sell

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Speaker 1: it from the design before you build anything. Sell it first.

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Speaker 1: Then you know if someone wants it. But that kind

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Speaker 1: of brings us to the question why don't people sell first?

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Speaker 1: Like what puts them off? And Matt and Joel. If

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Speaker 1: I say to you the words salesman, what's the first

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Speaker 1: word that comes to mind? Salesman, schmarmy, Like salesman in

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Speaker 1: and of itself, it is just a negative kind of exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so even that the term itself has this negative

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Speaker 1: attached to it, and so that yeah, if you if

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Speaker 1: you say a salesman, it's like, oh, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be that. Yeah, and I'm They're telling everyone to

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Speaker 1: start a business, you have to sell, and they have

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Speaker 1: this instant reaction of yuck. I don't want to be schmimy.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be pushy. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: have a shiny suit, I don't want to sell used

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Speaker 1: cars like get away from me sales. And it's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: I've run that exact exercise in Africa, in America, in England,

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Speaker 1: all around the world, and it's the same reaction to sales.

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Speaker 1: They think it is pushing something on someone. So the

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Speaker 1: first step is actually to realize sales is about finding

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Speaker 1: someone with a problem that you can fix. So what

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Speaker 1: I would do is I would identify how my service

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Speaker 1: or product makes someone else's life better, and then I

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Speaker 1: would go around asking people if they have the problem

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Speaker 1: that I fix, and if they do, that's when I

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Speaker 1: can pitch them the product or service. Sales is not

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Speaker 1: about pushing stuff on people. Sales is actually the process

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Speaker 1: of making the world a better place. And if you

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Speaker 1: look at it like that, you suddenly get inspired to

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Speaker 1: go out there and sell more because every time you sell,

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Speaker 1: you make someone else's life a little bit better and

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Speaker 1: you get slightly wealthier. Yeah. I dig that, So I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we need a sea change maybe in just kind of

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Speaker 1: our mindset about what sales means. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: a good reframe. Uh So. Yeah. Another piece of traditional

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Speaker 1: advice Alan is that people need to take on debt

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Speaker 1: in order to get things off the ground. In order

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Speaker 1: to get the business started, you need the seed money.

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Speaker 1: And you know this this whole episode, really, this is

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Speaker 1: like the crux of what we want to get at.

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Speaker 1: Why is it so bad to start a business with that,

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Speaker 1: getting a loan from a bank, borrowing from friends and family,

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Speaker 1: that all the many ways in which people actually start

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Speaker 1: a business. Why, in your opinion, it's that just a

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Speaker 1: terrible way to go about it. Well, I think mostly

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Speaker 1: it's a terrible way to go about it, because people

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Speaker 1: spend that money that they borrow from friends, family or

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Speaker 1: the bank instantly, and they tend to spend it on

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't actually need. They buy a fancy new laptop,

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Speaker 1: they get some offices. I know what, our print a

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Speaker 1: thousand business cards with my new logo so that I

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Speaker 1: can feel special, And they buy a load of stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't actually need to launch the business. And if

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Speaker 1: you just started it, starting it with no debt forces

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Speaker 1: you to be creative, and it means if it does

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Speaker 1: go wrong and you don't enjoy running it, then you're

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Speaker 1: not in the hole. You don't have to clamber back out.

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Speaker 1: And I know so many people who have borrowed money

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Speaker 1: to build businesses. They've done it for a year, realized

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Speaker 1: they didn't enjoy it, and then they have to go

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Speaker 1: and get a job to pay back the loan they've got.

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Speaker 1: And why bother, why bother doing any of that if

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Speaker 1: you don't have to. Yeah, and I've got to think

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Speaker 1: that the risks involved with starting your own business these days,

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Speaker 1: you know, with just the pandemic, the coronavirus um, I

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Speaker 1: feel like the risks that are inherent with entrepreneurship are

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Speaker 1: actually even maybe a little bit larger, and so like,

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Speaker 1: it would make sense that going into debts during these

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Speaker 1: times for something like your own business would be an

431
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: even even worse move, right, I'm just doing it's entirely

432
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: at this time, in uncertain times, things are moving quickly

433
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 1: and you just don't know what would work. And well,

434
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: let me give a clear example. Let's say you were

435
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 1: building a product. Let's say the three of us were

436
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 1: going to design a new board game. We could have

437
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: a lot of fun with me too, I'm a huge fan.

438
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: Let's say we designed this board game. It's a finance

439
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: board game or whatever it is, has you and I

440
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 1: faces on the little models as they move around, and

441
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: we build businesses and we do all sorts of crazy stuff.

442
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 1: We design this board game. Now, what most people do

443
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: traditionally is they go, well, I need ten grands to

444
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: be able to do the first print run to get

445
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: all of these board games printed, and then I will

446
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: sell them. And that is the traditional model is you

447
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 1: create first and sell second. But the world changed many

448
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: years ago and you just don't have to do that.

449
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 1: And actually, most board game manufacturers now realize this and

450
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: they run kickstarters or they reach out to the audience

451
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,360
Speaker 1: and they put up the designs, they show the pictures.

452
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: They haven't built it, they've just got a sample and

453
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: they've got some designs, and they sell it through a

454
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: kickstarter campaign or something else. They bring the money in first,

455
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: and then they use the customers money to print the

456
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: first order to be able to fulfill the orders. That's

457
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: selling your value before you create it, and that's one

458
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: of the most critical things. You've got to sell first

459
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: and then create second. We can design it and we

460
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 1: can prove it works, and we can show them the pictures.

461
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: That's time and energy, but we don't have to money.

462
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 1: And there are so many ways. I mean, you, the

463
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,959
Speaker 1: three of us, we could knock up a free website

464
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: in a couple of hours. We could come up with

465
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: the ideas for the game. We could sketch out first board.

466
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure one of us has got a friend somewhere

467
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,959
Speaker 1: that's a graphics designer that could help us put it

468
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: and make it look pretty. We could get that out

469
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: and put a buy now button and see if anyone buys.

470
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: Then we've got no risk. Right, So so that's how

471
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: right like that's how you are able to go about

472
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: starting your business without debt. Like what are some like

473
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: other ways where you can start your own small business

474
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 1: without any money without actually going into debt. Do you

475
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: have some other examples? Yes? Absolutely, And I guess the

476
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: first question is it depends whether you're selling a product

477
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 1: or a service. Service based industries tend to be a

478
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: lot easier. Let me give you one example. There's a

479
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: fabulous business in reading in the UK that we help

480
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: start up in the early days. They're called time trap

481
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: escape rooms, and you might be thinking, well, how do

482
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: you start an escape room with no money? That's quite

483
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 1: difficult because you need a building. And the way this

484
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: couple did it there named a Katie and Andrew, and

485
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: they wanted to get a building to set up their

486
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: escape room, and following our course, they decided to go

487
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: round and try and borrow a space. So they went

488
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: into the local town. They went to every restaurant, every hotel,

489
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: and they told them what they were trying to do

490
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: and asked if they had any spare space. They got

491
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: rejected time and time again for the entire day, until

492
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: it was right at the end of the day and

493
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: they were walking back towards the car. And as they

494
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: were walking back towards the car to drive home, they

495
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: saw one last hotel and you cannot make this stuff up.

496
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: The hotel was called Great Expectations, and they walked into

497
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: Gray Expectations. They made friends with the guy behind the

498
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: bar and the manager. They pitched their vision, said what

499
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: they wanted to do, and he actually said, well, we

500
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: got this spare room at the front we don't really

501
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: know what to do with. You can have it, borrow it,

502
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: set it up. That will bring people into the hotel

503
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: to buy drinks and to buy food. You definitely need

504
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: to drink after the escape room. They can after beer.

505
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: And they borrowed that space. I think they spent about

506
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 1: a thousand pounds setting up the space, So they did

507
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: spend a little bit of money, but compared to what

508
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: it would traditionally cost to set up an escape room,

509
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: it was nothing. And they built the escape room. They

510
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: pre sold the tickets on the website, so they had

511
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: people booked in for when they were opening, and in

512
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: that first six week run they made enough money to

513
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: put the deposit down on their permanent space. That yeah,

514
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: and that's outside of the box thinking right there, that

515
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: most people are like, I just gotta find this fancy

516
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: space and I gotta sign a twelve month lease or

517
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: something like that in order to get the ball rolling.

518
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: And and this couple was like, now we're going to

519
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: take a completely different approach and and find somebody that

520
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: has extra space. That's brilliant, man, I love that, especially

521
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: given retail at the moment. Sure, you go into the

522
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: shopping mall and there's empty spaces everywhere the shops everywhere,

523
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: there's under utilized spaces. I mean, get out into your

524
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: town and have a look around. It's unbelievable what is

525
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,959
Speaker 1: free and empty. And let's see if we can borrow

526
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: it rather than pay for it. Yeah. And if you

527
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: can add value to someone else's business by starting your

528
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: own business, by bringing foot traffic in their door, that's clutch.

529
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: That's a win win for everybody, right, absolutely, So, Alan,

530
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: what if a business owner or a wanna be business

531
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: owner has money in the bank, are you just railing

532
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: against or are you just against people taking on debt

533
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: in order to start a business, or do you think

534
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: individuals should be incredibly cautious even with their own funds

535
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: that they're sinking into the initial startup and launch phase

536
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: of a business that they that they want to open.

537
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: I think that using money is quite often a way

538
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: around you're trying to skip the steps you need to

539
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: go through to make it a successful business. You throw

540
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: some money into try and get further quicker, and that

541
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: has risk to it. And actually what we found is

542
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: if you take the steps you have to go through

543
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: to get there, you get the learnings you need to

544
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: make it a successful business on the way. So if

545
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: you run a six week pop up for your escape room,

546
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: you will learn a huge amount of that, so that

547
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: when you do have the permanent space that you've paid for,

548
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: you've already got the learning and you know what works

549
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: and you know what doesn't, and it makes it inherently

550
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: less risky. So I would say, even if you've got

551
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: cash in the bank, don't skip the steps you need

552
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: to because it will give you incredible learning. And the

553
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: other thing is if you say, well, okay, how do

554
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: I launch this with as little money as possible? You

555
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: have to get creative. And it's when you get creative

556
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: you start to come up with ideas that are out

557
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: of the box that will really make a difference to

558
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: your business. If you just throw your money out of it,

559
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: at it and do exactly the same thing everyone else does.

560
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: You're not going to stand out. You know what I

561
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: keep hearing you say, Allen, is that, like it seems

562
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: that when you get financing lined up right, when you

563
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: have a bunch of money set aside for the business,

564
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: that you spend it. Like you said a little bit ago,

565
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: that you just you spend it all up front on

566
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: things that you don't need, on things that you've heard

567
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,479
Speaker 1: might be a good idea to spend money on, but

568
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: it's not necessary in order to achieve what it is

569
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,719
Speaker 1: that you're looking to achieve. In the same way, and

570
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: I think you've mentioned this before, but like that's how

571
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: we treat our personal finances as well. You know, when

572
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: it's your own money, when it feels like it's yours

573
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: and you have a spot for that money to go, like,

574
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: you're not just spending that money because you have it.

575
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: You're you're still trying to be creative, be resourceful, making

576
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: sure that you're getting the best deal you're You're not

577
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: just spending money because it's just sitting there right. Well. Absolutely,

578
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: and I think it's exactly the same thing with personal

579
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: finance as it is with business, you try and reduce

580
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: your expenditure, you try and maximize the amount of coming in,

581
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: and then with the difference in between, you invest it

582
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: for the future to create a return. And I don't

583
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: care whether it's a business or personal finance, same rules apply.

584
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: And if you do that, you can have an incredibly

585
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: successful personal finance or an incredibly successful business either one.

586
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: And I run both my personal finances or Katie and

587
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: I sorry, because we do it together. That's my wife.

588
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: We run both our personal finances and our businesses in

589
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: exactly the same way. I love it. Man. All Right,

590
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: We've got a few more questions for you, Alan, including

591
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: we want to know about how you are for your

592
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: services for free, like what's your business model. We'll get

593
00:31:53,560 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: to those questions right after the break. All right, Joel,

594
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: we are back from the break and we're we're talking

595
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: about starting a business with no debt, and we're speaking

596
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: with Alan on again. And let's kind of like dive

597
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: into the mind a little bit. Let's talk about mindsets.

598
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: What do you feel are the biggest like mindset shifts

599
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: that potential entrepreneurs need to foster and develop within themselves

600
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: in order to be successful, Right, in order for their

601
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: businesses to succeed. You know, like, is it just like

602
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: clocking in at a factory from nine to five or

603
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: is it a little bit different. Everything changes when you

604
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: run your own business. And I think the most exciting

605
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: thing about starting your own business is you are your

606
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: own boss. You get to decide what you do every day.

607
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: But that's also the scariest thing because there's no one

608
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: telling you what to do. You've got to make that

609
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: stuff up. And I think that's a real big shift

610
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: because every day you wake up and there was a

611
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: blank canvas in front of you, and you have to

612
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: make it up. You've got to make up the marketing message,

613
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: You've got to make up what sales are going to do.

614
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: You've got to make up You've got to create it

615
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: all out of nothing. And I think that's the hardest

616
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: shift that I went through, that my business partner went through,

617
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: that everyone I know goes through when they leave doing

618
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: a traditional job or a traditional business and start their

619
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: own thing. They just sit there on their own wondering

620
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: what do I do? And if I could say one

621
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: thing to your audience is the cheesiest expression ever, but

622
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: it sticks with me if it's to be it's up

623
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: to me, and that I have rammed into my brain

624
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: as hard as possible, because no one else is going

625
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: to make things happen. You have to make them happen.

626
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: And I'm always amazed that turning up at meetings on time,

627
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: making phone calls, making things happen every day, that's actually

628
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: not a common thing. People just don't seem to make

629
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: things happen. And there are that learning that you've got

630
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: to do it every day. You've got to set the appointments,

631
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: You've got to drive for it to happen. You have

632
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: to ask the question. You have to say, when are

633
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: we going to do this podcast, When are we going

634
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: to record it, When are we going to sell it?

635
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: What are we going to do? And that drive, the

636
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: drive has to come from within you. And if you're

637
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: not someone who's motivated from the inside, then do not

638
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: start a business. Go get a job. So all right,

639
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: let's say I have the angling to start a business,

640
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 1: but I'm a little nervous about kind of doing that

641
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: and having the blank canvas. Do you have any advice

642
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: for people who are not sure how to structure their

643
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,959
Speaker 1: days if there isn't kind of built in structure for

644
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: them because you know that they're is that structure when

645
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: I go to but it's all up to me to

646
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: create the structure. When it's my business, then it is

647
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: completely up to you. You get to decide which is

648
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 1: terrifying and exciting and equal measures. I would so when

649
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: you're first starting, my thoughts are structured as a mini

650
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: experiment with some key items that you're going to do.

651
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: So let's take the board game example, Matt and Joel,

652
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: we're all setting this up together, and then I would

653
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: define what are the key steps. Number One, design, prototype,

654
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: and test. Once I've got a tested prototype. Number two,

655
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: I'd get the graphics design done and i'd try and

656
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: find someone to do that with me. Number three put

657
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: it out on a Kickstarter. Number four promote it so

658
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: I would share it with board games enthusiasts. I'd find

659
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: them the groups on Facebook, I'd reach out on Instagram.

660
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: There's so many ways to find those people and bring

661
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: them to your page. And that is mini experiment is

662
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: design it, put it out there, see if anyone buys,

663
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: and I'd give myself, I don't know X amount of

664
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: time for each of those blocks. I would get it

665
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: done and I would see if I could launch it.

666
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 1: And it's having those clearly defined markers and knowing when

667
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: you're going to get things done by that enable you

668
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: to do it. And if it's a mini experiment, you're

669
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: committing to two or three weeks or whatever it is,

670
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: that allows you to do the experiment and to see

671
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: if you get any results. If you get good results

672
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: and people have bought, then maybe you push in harder

673
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: and keep going. If you get bad results and our

674
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 1: board game fails and no one buys it, we will

675
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: pretend it didn't happen, and we'll come up with a

676
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: new idea quickly. Uh, and no one will ever know

677
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: the wiser, and we'll have another go. And I think

678
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: I would set myself those experiments to know I'm going

679
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: to do it for ex period of I'm I'm going

680
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: to test it. I'm going to see it, and then

681
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: I'll work out if the mini experiment has worked or

682
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: not whether I want to press on and keep going.

683
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: And I think that way, you've made your blank canvas

684
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 1: a little bit smaller and it's easier to fill it up.

685
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: I love those actionable mini steps essentially that you can

686
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 1: take in order to make sure that it actually gets

687
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: done and the timeframe right, which is huge to give

688
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: yourself a deadline essentially like and even if it's just

689
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: artificially imposed by you, which it's going to have to

690
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: be typically well, commit to it online. This is always

691
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: one of the tricks. People will do more for other

692
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 1: people than they will for themselves. So if you haven't

693
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: announced you will have the prototype done by X date,

694
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: you're more likely to let yourself off the hook than

695
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: if you've committed to other people. So I was no

696
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: accountability unless you've read others on board right exactly exactly,

697
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: So I'd be saying to you Matt and Joel, I

698
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: will have it back by ex eight and if I've

699
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 1: promised you, I'm likely to do it. If I've promised

700
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: myself and haven't told anyone, I might be nicer to

701
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: myself than I will be to other people. Yes, so

702
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: commit totally well, Alan so Jo hinted at this earlier.

703
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: But your business the pop up business school like it

704
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 1: teaches you know, folks how to start their own business,

705
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,439
Speaker 1: but you do it for free. You know, you don't

706
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: charge people who attend. So can you tell us about

707
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: like your business model, because that's actually kind of a

708
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: unique business model. When you're offering the product or the

709
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: service free of charge, how are you making that work?

710
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: We're gonna get a little meta here future profits for

711
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: any business it gets created because of pop up Business School. Basically,

712
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: it's like shark tank. That's actually a good idea, and

713
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: we thought about that for a time. But the downside

714
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: to that business model is it makes me pick and

715
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: choose the people who come to pop up Business School

716
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: because I would only back the winners. And that's actually

717
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: the model. Little lot of incubators and different places used,

718
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,919
Speaker 1: and they pick who they think will be most successful.

719
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: And I always wanted the pop up Business School to

720
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: be open to anyone. I don't care where you're from,

721
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: what your background is, who you are. You should have

722
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: the opportunity to build a business doing something you enjoy

723
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: and make money without debt, and I want to help you.

724
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: So like that business model comes with some biases, so

725
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,919
Speaker 1: what we did was completely different. We decided we would

726
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: go and find sponsors for our workshops and then we

727
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: would give them away free to the communities that need

728
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: it the most, and we get counsels like some of

729
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: our sponsors are Westminster City Council from London, we've had

730
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: housing authorities. The one in Houston was run by Houston

731
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: Housing Authority. We've had housing associations in England, we've had

732
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: corporate sponsors. So we've had construction companies. In my Acrossoft

733
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: sponsored a couple and they pay for the workshops and

734
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: then we give them away free to the people who

735
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: need it the most. So in eight years of doing this,

736
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 1: no one has ever paid to come on our events.

737
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: And I always wanted the best entrepreneurial education available to

738
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 1: be free for everyone. That's killer, man. I love it,

739
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: and I love the bias to make sure that anybody

740
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: can get the training to start a business, because you're right,

741
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: so much in our society is catered to the people

742
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: with the great idea, with the leg up and and

743
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: so yeah, saying no matter where you're at, you can

744
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: start a business and helping those folks get off the

745
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,479
Speaker 1: ground is awesome and I love that. I love your

746
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: passion for that. So all right, one final question here

747
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: for you, Alan, like, what what about leaving your day

748
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,720
Speaker 1: job in order to go all in on the business

749
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: you've started. How do you know that it's time to

750
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,479
Speaker 1: leave your nine to five in order to actually make

751
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: your your business that you've started the full time thing.

752
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: A lot of people are sure like whether they should

753
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: be quitting their job in order to start a business,

754
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: whether it should be a side hustle. Then if it

755
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: is a side hustle, like how long until it's the

756
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: main thing? Cool? So I think number one is running

757
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: mini experiment on the side. Give yourself to three weeks

758
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: a month, do them in the experiments if anyone buys,

759
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: and do it in your spare time alongside your job.

760
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: And how I would evaluate the mini experiment is on

761
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: three criteria. So criteria one is did you enjoy doing it?

762
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: This is critical you run the mini experiment. Did you

763
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: have fun? Did you enjoy it? If no, don't continue

764
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: it because you know it's not going to work for you.

765
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: Number two, did your customers enjoy it? Did you get

766
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: good feedback? Did you sell anything? Did you did you

767
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: bring in some money? Did people tell you it was awesome?

768
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: Because that will tell you whether you can get more

769
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: customers in the future. And number three is did you

770
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: make any money? I mean maybe for the mini experiment

771
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: you just want to break even, but is there an

772
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 1: opportunity here? Did you make some cash? Do you think

773
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: you'll make cash in the future doing it. And I

774
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: think if you've got those three things in line and

775
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 1: you're probably your first mini experiment or two will fail.

776
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: I know my first few businesses absolutely failed, and that's okay,

777
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: especially if you're doing it without debt. Well, then you

778
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: just go, well, never mind, it didn't work, I'll try again.

779
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: I guess that's that's a good point. It makes it

780
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: so much easier also to have been in the business

781
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: that isn't working, Whereas if you can cycle out of

782
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: cash in, you might be going after that business and

783
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 1: chasing it and chasing results for way to long. Yeah,

784
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: which brings us to sunk cost fallacy, which is where

785
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: you put fifty grand in in the year of your

786
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: life and it's not working, but you can't give up

787
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,879
Speaker 1: because you've sunk so much into it. Whereas if you've

788
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: done a mini experiment three weeks and all you've got

789
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: on the line is a bit of time and energy,

790
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: then you're easier to let go and get to the

791
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: next idea. And in nine of occasions, your first idea

792
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: is not your best idea, and you need to go

793
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: through a few ideas to get to one that will

794
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: actually work. Yeah, I mean, this is such a great

795
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: way to approach entrepreneurship and starting your own business, right,

796
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: I mean, like it's just it's safer, but it's just

797
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: smarter as well. Right, Like, so not only are you

798
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: sidestepping the risks associated with taking on loads of debt,

799
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 1: but just the way you're talking about it, it makes

800
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: it sound so attainable. And I think that's kind of

801
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: change in mindset. Is is one of the biggest things

802
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: that needs to happen, Like Joel, you said, like a

803
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: sea change needs to happen. I think folks need to

804
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: see entrepreneurship not as this giant, audacious thing to to

805
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: kind of tackle, like this this giant monster, but it's

806
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 1: just this little pest, you know, like and and it's

807
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: this little problem that like, Okay, if I kind of

808
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: apply some energy towards it, this is something that I

809
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: can fix or this is a problem that can be

810
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: solved and and hopefully this can make you know, individuals

811
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: lives better. I think by kind of reducing in their

812
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: mind how big of a problem it is to start

813
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 1: your own business, I think we could see a lot

814
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: more small businesses take off. And you know, and we

815
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:14,240
Speaker 1: certainly appreciate your approach right and how you view entrepreneurship.

816
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,919
Speaker 1: Where can listeners where can they find more information about

817
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: you as well as more information about starting their own

818
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: small business. Of course, thank you Matt and Joel um So.

819
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:26,439
Speaker 1: If they want to find out more about the pop

820
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 1: Up Business School, just google pop Up Business School. We're

821
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: the only thing that shows up. And there are free

822
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: online events. Because of the current situation, we've had to

823
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: move online that will be coming up around the world

824
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: in different places and they can tune into one of those.

825
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: I've launched a podcast called Rebel Entrepreneur, which is all

826
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: about building businesses with no money, So they can google

827
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 1: me and that, and we would love to help them

828
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: start up and make their own money doing something they love. Well, Alan,

829
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: thanks so much for all you're doing to help other

830
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: people start their own business and you realize a dream

831
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: and often cases that's what's happening when people are starting

832
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: in business, solving a problem, realizing their own dreams. It's

833
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing, man, and we really appreciate your time

834
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: in this conversation. This has been a huge amount of

835
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: fun and I'm serious. Next time I come to the States,

836
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: you can guys can crack out a craft bear. I'll

837
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: get some Lego and let's design a ball game out

838
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: of Lego and let's try and sell it on Kickstarter.

839
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: I am completely serious. I would love to do that.

840
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: We could do a mini experiment. I love it. Let's

841
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 1: try it. Man, totally up for it. Yeah, that sounds great. Awesome,

842
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: Thanks again, Alan, Joel May. What a fantastic conversation we

843
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 1: just had with Alan down again of the Pop Up

844
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: Business School as well as the Rebel Entrepreneur podcast. Um,

845
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: you just had a lot of great insights there and

846
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: and basically like like demystifying small business. I felt like

847
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: that's a lot of what we spend our time doing today.

848
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: But for you, man, what was your big takeaway for

849
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: our listeners? Man and stuff? To come up with just one?

850
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: Because I felt like one major thing is it's easier

851
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 1: than you think it is. And most people they build

852
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 1: it up in their minds and it becomes this big thing.

853
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,479
Speaker 1: And I think starting business isn't really all that hard.

854
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: But I think to the biggest takeaway from me was

855
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: think about what resources you do have at your disposal.

856
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: And Alan's example of the guy with only the closer

857
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: he's wearing and a backpack on his back and a

858
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: busted iPad. Being able to start a business, being able

859
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: to figure out some way to make money, and that

860
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 1: is something that people need, right. People pay for companies

861
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: to come pick up their trash, to declutter their homes,

862
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: and that's one of those things that you really don't

863
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 1: need much money, if any money, to start that business.

864
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: I just love the idea of everybody out there who

865
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: wants to start a business sitting down for a second

866
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: listing out their resources. It's easy to think about things

867
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,879
Speaker 1: in the negative context. What do I lack? What don't

868
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 1: I have? I can come up with a long list

869
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, But what do you have? They can help

870
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: you accelerate those business plans and actually get something off

871
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: the ground quickly. You've got something, I guarantee it. And

872
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,439
Speaker 1: I think his example really hit home that everybody's got

873
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 1: something that they should be considering in order to start

874
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,359
Speaker 1: that business. Yeah, you're kind of a glass half full

875
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: of beer kind of guy, got a glass half the Yeah,

876
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: So think about what resources you do have. And I

877
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: think when you sit down and write that list, you'll realize,

878
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: oh wait, I can't start something. And it's easier than

879
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: I otherwise thought it would be nice man, I dig that.

880
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: My big takeaway was when he was talking about sales.

881
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: You know, he was like, we we both shared our

882
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: immediate knee jerk reaction towards the words salesman, uh, salesperson.

883
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 1: But one of the things that he mentioned that that

884
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: really stood out to me was that sales is truly

885
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: about making the world a better place. You're solving problems

886
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: and starting with that is just the smartest way of

887
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: going about starting a business, right, Uh, starting with the

888
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: customer in mind essentially. Like by doing that, you are

889
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,439
Speaker 1: doing market research essentially, and you're determining the demand for

890
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 1: your product, whether it's a service or an actual tangible

891
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: product like a board game. When you can start from

892
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 1: the standpoint of knowing that I'm either a solving a

893
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: problem or be uh filling a gap in the market,

894
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: you know, where there is a demand for something, it's

895
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: almost a sure fire away to ensure your success because

896
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: people are looking for a solution. You just need to

897
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 1: stepped up and provide it. Yeah, I agree, sales isn't

898
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: necessarily about being pushy, but it's about delivering something to

899
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: someone that's gonna help them and then they they'll gladly

900
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: pay you money for right exactly. So all right, now,

901
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: let's get back to the beer that we had on

902
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: the show today. We drank a beer by Little Cottage.

903
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 1: It's called Cookies and Cream and it's a nice stout

904
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: brewed by our friend John, who has a little microbrewery.

905
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 1: So I'm out where your thoughts on this beer, man,

906
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: and I would describe this beer as very luxurious. It

907
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: was dark and sweet. Obviously, it was a stout, so

908
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: I had some sugars going on there, but as well

909
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: as those dark, robust flavors um and it was called

910
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: Cookies and Cream, and so it definitely had kind of

911
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: like a vanilla creaminess going on that you would expect

912
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: from a stout like this. It was really good, almost

913
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: sort of like a like a dessert beer that like

914
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: sticks to your bones a little bit. You know, the

915
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: pastry stouts. They're so hot right now, and this would

916
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: probably fit into that category a little bit. I I'm

917
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: partial to some cookies and cream ice cream from time

918
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: to time, So cookies and cream in my beer, yes, please?

919
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I really like this one. In big props

920
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: to our friend John for making such a delicious beer,

921
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: not too sweet. Sometimes those pastry stouts can be a

922
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,959
Speaker 1: little sugary sweet too coining. For me, this was dark

923
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: and thick um, but also with some of those notes

924
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 1: of cream and cookies and so yeah, I really dug it. Yeah,

925
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: it had a nice balance, so Joe, that's gonna be

926
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: it for this episode. Our listeners can find our show

927
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: notes up on our website at how to Money dot com,

928
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: and we'll make sure to link to some of Alan's

929
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: resources as well. Yeah, and if you've been listening to

930
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: How the Money for a little while and you've enjoyed it,

931
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: you've gotten value from it, you've learned things, you've saved money, well,

932
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 1: we would appreciate a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps

933
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: us get the message out there to more and more people,

934
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: and that's what we want to do. We want to

935
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: help people, give them the resources to start a business,

936
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: or to cut back in their personal finances and save

937
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: more of what they're making or make more right, all

938
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: those kind of things. So that's what we're about here

939
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: on this show. All right, Matt, that's gonna do it

940
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: for this episode. Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best

941
00:49:46,719 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: Friends Out,