Speaker 1: From Mahart where Innovation, money and power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed loved Love.
Speaker 2: I'm Caroline heid Oft Bloomberg's Weld headquarters in New York
Speaker 2: and Ludlow is off.
Speaker 3: This is Bloombag Technology coming up.
Speaker 2: We break down Oracle's earnings and it's pushed into the
Speaker 2: cloud computing space as a company hits a record high,
Speaker 2: and we talk all things Elon Musk ahead of the
Speaker 2: vote on his fifty six billion dollar pay.
Speaker 3: Package, plus Paramount.
Speaker 2: Walks away from a deal with Skyharts as it heads
Speaker 2: back to square one to find a new bidder.
Speaker 3: We discussed that and so much more throughout.
Speaker 2: This hour, including record high after record high, and a
Speaker 2: new company back on top.
Speaker 3: I focus in on what's happening with Apple.
Speaker 2: Extraordinary move for a company lay at about a three
Speaker 2: trillion dollar market valuation to move twelve percent in two days, following,
Speaker 2: of course WWDC, following the integration of artificial intelligence and
Speaker 2: open AI, and of course it therefore starts to pip
Speaker 2: a company to the post in terms of its overall
Speaker 2: market valuation. Who now reign supreme Apple number one once again,
Speaker 2: take it versus Microsoft. Microsoft, of course had been the
Speaker 2: number one player for several months. Now we're back eclipsing
Speaker 2: it for Apple. Check out the white line suddenly crishendering
Speaker 2: to three point three trillion dollars. We've got also, though
Speaker 2: still gains for the likes of Microsoft, gains the likes
Speaker 2: and video also at about a three trillion dollar market capitalization.
Speaker 2: We are fueling some of these valuations across the board
Speaker 2: and also looking at what happened in for Oracle too,
Speaker 2: another new record high for this particular player after its
Speaker 2: actual earnings show real driving force when it comes to
Speaker 2: its focus on cloud computing.
Speaker 3: How can it.
Speaker 2: Compete versus some of the other players like a Microsoft.
Speaker 2: We're carrying up nine point eight percent on one day
Speaker 2: alone for Oracle after its earnings came out the bell yesterday.
Speaker 3: Let's get straight to it. Body Ford joins us.
Speaker 2: Now for more and a good day for one eleison
Speaker 2: at least, this one being Larry Ellison.
Speaker 3: What did you make of the numbers?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Absolutely, with Oracle, it is all about that cloud
Speaker 4: infrastructure number.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: We've seen across software in recent weeks that it's been
Speaker 4: really difficult for those selling applications. Lucky for Oracle, their
Speaker 4: big growth bet is that infrastructure, right, and so we
Speaker 4: saw them sign a good number of deals. The bookings
Speaker 4: were higher than anticipated, and there was that really important
Speaker 4: partnership deal that Microsoft and open Ai said, Hey, we
Speaker 4: actually don't even have enough capacity. We're going to use
Speaker 4: Oracle's cloud to help train and work with open Ai,
Speaker 4: which that was a very validating point for a lot
Speaker 4: of investors who said that. Okay, I guess what Larry's
Speaker 4: been talking about, that Oracle is the best for AI workloads.
Speaker 4: There's got to be something there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Software Cat's coming out saying we've had record contract
Speaker 2: sizes being signed in the previous quarter. That's going to
Speaker 2: continue into the second half of the year. Brody, But
Speaker 2: I'm really interested in, well, where is the fly in
Speaker 2: the ointment? What about the focus on healthcare data because
Speaker 2: that is still not growing particularly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the whole healthcare bet was, for sure, kind of
Speaker 4: not a big part of the earnings.
Speaker 3: Here are funny.
Speaker 4: Worst You know, Oracle purchase Cerner twenty eight billion dollars
Speaker 4: tour or so years ago, so it's at the center
Speaker 4: of our company now.
Speaker 5: It hasn't panned out too well.
Speaker 4: Financially thus far. But investors are saying, hey, you know what,
Speaker 4: if you can clock ninety billion in bookings on cloud infrastructure,
Speaker 4: maybe Cerner doesn't matter so much.
Speaker 2: Well, for sure, markets thinking that Cerner doesn't matter so much.
Speaker 2: At the moment, we're up thirty five billion dollars on
Speaker 2: the day for Oracle and having its well currently training
Speaker 2: at the highest on record brody Ford breaking down the
Speaker 2: numbers for us, we appreciate it turning into the broader
Speaker 2: markets and look, it is not just Oracle at a
Speaker 2: new record high.
Speaker 3: We're across the.
Speaker 2: Board seeing money flowing into equities, into bonds. We're seeing
Speaker 2: S and P five hundred more than a percent point
Speaker 2: a new record high. Fifty four thirty eight is where
Speaker 2: we trade. The NASDAC also powering up one point eight percent.
Speaker 2: Why this is a macro story of the fact that
Speaker 2: CPI print showing a three point four percent year on
Speaker 2: year growth. Infration pressure is therefore the slowest in three years.
Speaker 2: The two year yield absolutely plummets some fifteen basis points.
Speaker 3: We're at four point six eight percent.
Speaker 2: As people start to factor in that, yes, we will
Speaker 2: get that rate cup come November, maybe even come September.
Speaker 2: We all wait for the Federal Reserve decision later on
Speaker 2: this afternoon. Bitcoin on the up and up. We're up
Speaker 2: more than four percent, sixty one hundred and fifty six.
Speaker 2: This paints a picture of risk on Sylvia Jabronski CEO
Speaker 2: and CIO at Defiance ETFs to really talk as to
Speaker 2: whether this is a wise decision right now.
Speaker 6: I hete Caroline, well, I think, you know, in terms
Speaker 6: of the Fed today and any potential cuts, I don't
Speaker 6: you know, I don't anticipate anything coming. I do think
Speaker 6: that the data was great, you know, you just kind
Speaker 6: of ran through it. Inflation is clearly on the downtrend.
Speaker 6: This is exactly what the FED wanted to see. It
Speaker 6: gives them that to certainly a breathe and to be
Speaker 6: a little bit less hawkish. But you know, if we
Speaker 6: take anything from fetshair pal, it's that he's looking for.
Speaker 7: More data before they make a decision.
Speaker 6: So I think, you know, the call will be a
Speaker 6: little bit of nine and won't crash the markets like
Speaker 6: it has in you know, a few months past, and
Speaker 6: so that's a good thing that we have some.
Speaker 2: Stability there, stability enough to continue to think technology is
Speaker 2: what leads us higher.
Speaker 6: I think that technology is going to continue to lead
Speaker 6: us higher. And you know the reason for that is
Speaker 6: that we're just in the beginning stages.
Speaker 7: Of this AI, you know, the Fourth Industrial Revolution.
Speaker 6: It's only now starting to play into the earnings of
Speaker 6: a lot of the you know mag five, six sevens
Speaker 6: that have been reporting this last quarter.
Speaker 7: So I think it's just in its.
Speaker 6: Infancy in terms of how it's going to impact revenues
Speaker 6: in the bottom line. And we haven't even started to
Speaker 6: talk about how AI is transforming healthcare, how it's going
Speaker 6: to transform you know, aerospace and defense, banking systems and
Speaker 6: things like this, and so the companies who are the
Speaker 6: key ingredients to that revolution are essentially the MAG seven
Speaker 6: So I think they keep going.
Speaker 7: And also, you know, look at the balance sheets. They're
Speaker 7: earning their multiples.
Speaker 6: Earnings projections are set to be about fourteen percent or
Speaker 6: higher for the next couple of years. So, you know,
Speaker 6: I think burning any major change in inflation, any geopolitical evvent,
Speaker 6: you know, politics, of course, I think tech is a
Speaker 6: safe place to play.
Speaker 2: Apple's a weird one, though, because we're not expecting double
Speaker 2: digit growth in revenue. In fact, the market is anticipating
Speaker 2: a three percent increase in revenue for the next fiscal
Speaker 2: coll to Soviet and yet they eclipsed Microsoft back is.
Speaker 3: The most valuable company and rallying an extraordinary twelve percent
Speaker 3: in the last couple of days.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and so Apple hasn't done anything though for a
Speaker 6: couple of years. And it's really interesting because when the
Speaker 6: whole you know, everything was kind of falling apart a
Speaker 6: couple of years ago in twenty twenty two, all the
Speaker 6: tech stocks were kind of you know, down and crashing
Speaker 6: at standpoint, and Apple was the name that was holding
Speaker 6: up the market. This year that shifted to the video
Speaker 6: and you know, here we are in the video is
Speaker 6: still up there and Apple has kind of regained It's
Speaker 6: set on the throne here, you know, next to the
Speaker 6: top players. And I think the story of there is
Speaker 6: you know, pick up in China and then also some
Speaker 6: talks of the AI integration and things like this they're
Speaker 6: finding on the map with that. We just hadn't heard
Speaker 6: anything compelling from them in a long time about that.
Speaker 6: But you know, the big stories and if you start
Speaker 6: getting upgrades on phones because actually this time they are
Speaker 6: different and they have that AI play and then pick
Speaker 6: up in China. You know, Pray deserves a little bit
Speaker 6: of a stock increase there.
Speaker 2: Can you talk us through some of the not just fundamentals,
Speaker 2: but technicals are gonna be at play. As we had
Speaker 2: head towards the end of the first half of the
Speaker 2: year and we get a rebalancing moment in June, we
Speaker 2: saw some big differences in shakeups in market capitalization.
Speaker 3: Where will money move?
Speaker 2: How will that continue to feed the biggest.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think you know, when you have about ninety
Speaker 6: percent of the growth of you know, S and P
Speaker 6: five hundred coming from four or five names, and then
Speaker 6: you know forty percent of the growth coming from the
Speaker 6: next two behind it, I don't think actually that the
Speaker 6: that the you know, the rebounds will put it into
Speaker 6: into kind of rebalance.
Speaker 7: It'll it'll equalize it a little.
Speaker 6: Bit better on the next rebalance, but it's probably not
Speaker 6: going to change because the top market cap names are
Speaker 6: going to remain the top market cab names and they're
Speaker 6: going to end up leading the index forward. But you know,
Speaker 6: around that that type of you know, around that type
Speaker 6: of trading, when you're selling off a little bit of
Speaker 6: this and taking up a little bit of that, you know,
Speaker 6: you do get some market movement, but I just think
Speaker 6: that they're all they're going to remain the top players
Speaker 6: and there's probably not going to be a huge amount
Speaker 6: of impact from the rebounds coming up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that all to do with perhaps the technology selects
Speaker 2: sector Spider much being written by boom Bag Intelligence, Sylvia.
Speaker 3: What about your own MtFs? Where's that performed? Where have
Speaker 3: the bets been?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 6: Yeah, so o ours are in line with the market.
Speaker 6: So our two biggest you know, ETF plays or a
Speaker 6: ticker called five G and one called quantum, And essentially
Speaker 6: what they do is they represent AI machine learning and
Speaker 6: then all of the you know, widgets that go into
Speaker 6: supporting that. So five G is the activity technology factor
Speaker 6: of it all.
Speaker 7: You know, you need low.
Speaker 6: Latency obviously to process the data to make driver lest
Speaker 6: cars work and all of that. And you know, we
Speaker 6: don't talk about five G as much as we probably should.
Speaker 6: I think pretty assuming will be talking about sixty actually,
Speaker 6: and quantum is just like it's just benefiting because it's
Speaker 6: all the AI sucks, it's navidea, it's you know, it's
Speaker 6: all the kind of kind of home runs there that
Speaker 6: are lead leading that revolution.
Speaker 7: So that one's just been out of tear for us
Speaker 7: this year, and I believe they're not commodities too right.
Speaker 6: We've got to uranium play out there, and when you
Speaker 6: think about things like uranium and copper and just energy
Speaker 6: in general, the need to you know, process to run
Speaker 6: the goods for AI, those names.
Speaker 3: Play into cryptos. Att Yeah, I.
Speaker 6: Still like crypto, you know, I think it's becoming further
Speaker 6: and further commercialized. I think that there are enough of
Speaker 6: institutional retail players out there that are willing to allocate
Speaker 6: a small percentage of their assets to cryptocurrency. You know,
Speaker 6: it's starting, it's it at some point started to diverge
Speaker 6: from tech. Now it's playing along with tech again this week,
Speaker 6: but it seems.
Speaker 7: To be a forreholding and a lot of portfolios.
Speaker 6: Looks the Billison dollars that flew into the ETFs just
Speaker 6: tell me, tells me that it's around.
Speaker 7: It's around to stay ether and bitcoin in particular.
Speaker 3: Sylvia, it's great to have you back on the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for spending some time with our
Speaker 2: CEO CEO at Defiance ETFs. Those on a tear in
Speaker 2: line with the market mean while coming up Musk's X
Speaker 2: platform gains among gop users.
Speaker 3: We're on that next for our own Kirk Wagner.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, there is another company that is doing particularly well today.
Speaker 2: In fact, it has been for the last couple of days.
Speaker 2: This on a partnership with Apple. We understand a firm
Speaker 2: is extending its gains after that Apple Pay deal that
Speaker 2: by now pay later company said it's payment products were
Speaker 2: expected to be available in US Apple Pay.
Speaker 3: Users this year. We're up almost nine percent. This is BLUEBG.
Speaker 2: Technology time now for Talking Tech. First up, Paramount chair
Speaker 2: Sharry Redstone has walked away from a deal to sell
Speaker 2: her media empire to David Ellison, the son of The
Speaker 2: Oracle founder. Redstone rejected the latest proposal from Ellison's sky
Speaker 2: Dance on Tuesday after lengthy negotiations. Still there are other
Speaker 2: bidders waiting in the wings, including Apollo Global Management, Seagram's
Speaker 2: heir as Edgar Bronfman, and the independent film producer Stephen Paul.
Speaker 2: Plus a Byte Dance is calling about FO one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty jobs in its Indonesian e.
Speaker 3: Commerce arm now.
Speaker 2: The move marks the first round of cuts since combining
Speaker 2: its TikTok shop with local rival Tocopedia in that was
Speaker 2: in January, according to people familiar with the matter of
Speaker 2: Bite Dancers reducing staff across its e commerce teams, including
Speaker 2: advertising and operations, and former President Donald Trump met with
Speaker 2: several bitcoin miners and is mar a Lago estate Tuesday night.
Speaker 3: That's according to the executive chairman of Queensbark.
Speaker 2: Trump told attendees that he loves script are currency, said
Speaker 2: it had been an advocate for miners if he retakes
Speaker 2: a White House. Now, staying in politics and with it,
Speaker 2: social media platform X formerly known as Twitter, of course,
Speaker 2: has now grown in popular popularity among conservative users now.
Speaker 2: According to a new PE research study, the number of
Speaker 2: Republican users have more than tripled since Elon Musk's purchase
Speaker 2: of the site back in October twenty twenty two, joining
Speaker 2: us now being mos Kurt Wagner and a surprise to.
Speaker 9: You, No, I don't think so. I think you know
Speaker 9: when you look at what this report came out with,
Speaker 9: this idea that X is becoming much more popular with
Speaker 9: the political right, it sort of confirms what I think
Speaker 9: we've all seen anecdotally for the last couple of years, right,
Speaker 9: and that's led by the new owner, of course, Elon Musk,
Speaker 9: who has been very vocal that the company he bought
Speaker 9: he thought was very left of center politically and that
Speaker 9: he wanted to move it more to the center and
Speaker 9: to the right. And it's also been you know, his
Speaker 9: own actions right reinstating President Trump, building relationships with other
Speaker 9: right wing kind of leaders around the world in Argentina
Speaker 9: and Brazil in places like that. So he's sort of
Speaker 9: setting the stage and setting the example, I would say,
Speaker 9: or you know, what he wants X to be. And
Speaker 9: we're seeing this in the numbers now that it's becoming
Speaker 9: much more popular with that you know, political politically conservative,
Speaker 9: conservative group of people.
Speaker 2: Therefore, are we seeing politically left of center exiting the platform.
Speaker 9: Yeah, well some are exiting, but more than that, you know,
Speaker 9: they're saying that they don't feel welcome. There was a
Speaker 9: higher spike in liberal people who were saying that they
Speaker 9: were more likely to be harassed or bullied on the
Speaker 9: service than those who were conservative. So it's sort of
Speaker 9: switched where. You know, for years, Caroline, as you remember,
Speaker 9: conservatives said, hey, Twitter isn't a place where I'm welcome.
Speaker 9: Twitter isn't a place where I can say what I
Speaker 9: want to say. You know, they didn't feel like it
Speaker 9: was their home, and it seems like those roles have
Speaker 9: reversed now. It feels like, you know, the data sort
Speaker 9: of suggests the conservatives believe that X is the place
Speaker 9: for them and liberals are feeling less and less welcome there.
Speaker 2: I just want to turn our attention to another one
Speaker 2: of you know, musk companies, SpaceX, and indeed his behavior
Speaker 2: there there's reporting is all coming from the Wall Street
Speaker 2: Journal Cut at the moment. I'm sure you've read the
Speaker 2: story Dan Elamsku has pursued women working at the company,
Speaker 2: apparently for sex, including a former intern, citing AffA David's
Speaker 2: signed by this woman and other interviews. What do you
Speaker 2: make of the reporting coming from the Wall Street Channel today.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean it's a bombshell of a story, and
Speaker 9: these allegations are quite serious, right as you point out
Speaker 9: that that Elon, while running this company was seeking relationships,
Speaker 9: sometimes sexual relationships with women who were his subordinates.
Speaker 8: And I think, you.
Speaker 9: Know, it certainly creates these questions about the power dynamics
Speaker 9: of Elon's companies, and not just Space sex, but I
Speaker 9: think it raises questions about all the companies that he's
Speaker 9: running right now, and you know, is he abusing sort
Speaker 9: of his role as the leader, the executive, the person
Speaker 9: with the power to you know, create these relationships and
Speaker 9: you know, these are all again allegations at this point.
Speaker 9: Obviously the reporting looks like it's pretty solid, but I
Speaker 9: just think again, it raises these questions for his other
Speaker 9: companies and also for you know, Tesla right now they're
Speaker 9: about to have a big vote of course on his
Speaker 9: pay package and stuff. You wonder how much any of
Speaker 9: this type of negative press around him could have an
Speaker 9: impact on what happens to him in his other is
Speaker 9: other companies in the Elon universe.
Speaker 2: Wow, you point us forward, Kirk Wagner. We thank you
Speaker 2: very much. Indeed, on all things Eno Muscular Time now
Speaker 2: for a weekly AI and Action segment. Today, we're looking
Speaker 2: at artificial intelligence in the workplace. Now, only seven percent
Speaker 2: of organizations have mature AI implementations.
Speaker 3: Their employees are three times.
Speaker 2: More likely to report productivity gains from using AI and work.
Speaker 2: That's one of the key highlights from a great new
Speaker 2: report coming from Asana. It's all about the impact of
Speaker 2: AI in the workplace, and we're going to bring in
Speaker 2: Asana's head of AI, Page Costello for more on the findings,
Speaker 2: and actually what took me by surprise is people are
Speaker 2: feeling more optimistic about using it in the workplace.
Speaker 10: Absolutely, Executives are very excited, and all the individual contributors
Speaker 10: are also starting to use it quite a bit more.
Speaker 10: One of the biggest things we saw is that more
Speaker 10: than half of knowledge workers report that they're using Generative
Speaker 10: AI weekly.
Speaker 3: That's up thirty six percent in just six months.
Speaker 2: How productive is it making them? What sort of gains
Speaker 2: are those that are being early adopters seeing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we.
Speaker 10: See that the people who use it daily report the
Speaker 10: highest productivity gains. Eighty nine percent of people who use
Speaker 10: it daily, so that they're seeing those gains, and only
Speaker 10: thirty nine percent of people who use it monthly see
Speaker 10: those games. So we know that the more you use it,
Speaker 10: the more value you get.
Speaker 8: Out of it.
Speaker 2: Now, there's perhaps some sort of nervousness still. Certainly, if
Speaker 2: you're a student, for example, using it, you're in many
Speaker 2: ways getting a pushback from those that teach you. What
Speaker 2: about in the workplace and people feeling that you're cutting
Speaker 2: corners all that, actually this is the way you should
Speaker 2: be working.
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's up to organizations leaders to really improve AI
Speaker 10: literacy and create a norm and set of expectations about
Speaker 10: how to use AI. This is a big gap where
Speaker 10: a lot of people aren't receiving training or guidance. Most
Speaker 10: organizations don't have a rollout strategy for how to train
Speaker 10: their employees at onboarding, how to really set up their
Speaker 10: organizations to roll out which vendors and make selections about
Speaker 10: how to get the most.
Speaker 8: Out of AI.
Speaker 10: People want to know that they're using it the right
Speaker 10: way and that they're going to be supported and celebrated
Speaker 10: for using AI for good.
Speaker 2: Why is that infrastructure perhaps not being built around the
Speaker 2: employee basis quickly? Is it nervousness on doing it right
Speaker 2: and with the right guard wails? Is it just a
Speaker 2: lack of knowledge from the top?
Speaker 10: I think there's a bit of curiosity about like do
Speaker 10: we have safe and reliable AI? Is it going to
Speaker 10: give us the right decisions that we can make from
Speaker 10: the data that we're getting. But honestly, I believe that
Speaker 10: a good deal of this is purely uncertainty about what
Speaker 10: it takes to.
Speaker 3: Be a newbie.
Speaker 10: A lot of these organizations and leaders are themselves learning
Speaker 10: and trying to create a plan while learning. At the
Speaker 10: same time, when the terrain is changing so quickly, it's
Speaker 10: really challenging.
Speaker 2: The reason Asana can do this sort of deep dive
Speaker 2: research is because you're a work management platform. You're helping
Speaker 2: companies Team Mobile for example Amazon, manage their own workflows
Speaker 2: and executives therein How are.
Speaker 3: You using it? How are you using it for your
Speaker 3: clients too?
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, I would say a few things.
Speaker 11: One.
Speaker 10: AI literacy is a priority for our organization. We want
Speaker 10: to make sure every employee knows how to use AI
Speaker 10: and how to get the most benefits for their teams.
Speaker 10: We have an AI council that thinks creatively about what
Speaker 10: are the tools that we need to use and how
Speaker 10: to deploy Asauana. So Asana is an enterprise work management
Speaker 10: platform used by eighty percent of the Fortune one hundred
Speaker 10: to drive clarity and accountability at scale. And what we
Speaker 10: see is that people are using Asauana's AI capabilities to
Speaker 10: create quickly create status reports across cross sections of goals
Speaker 10: and portfolios of work, but also work with our new
Speaker 10: at needs where they can delegate specific parts of the
Speaker 10: workflow and jobs to AI in the context of their
Speaker 10: process in order to have more confidence that there's a
Speaker 10: level of determinism that it will do the right thing.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about how ducinations. Let's talk about doing the
Speaker 2: right thing. Have you seen any of that? Have you
Speaker 2: got the statistics of how your own offering teammates is
Speaker 2: working and performing and improving.
Speaker 10: Absolutely, we're paying very close attention to the evaluations of
Speaker 10: different models and how they perform in the context of ASAUNA.
Speaker 10: What I'm most excited about is the way a sauna's
Speaker 10: data model works is there's a context around the people
Speaker 10: doing the work, who's doing what, by when, the timing
Speaker 10: of that work, and the ultimate goals they're laddering towards.
Speaker 10: And so what we see is the context of this
Speaker 10: work helps AI engage with more knowledge. So instead of
Speaker 10: surveying a vast amount of data and trying to surface
Speaker 10: some summary, AI is given a very specific s out
Speaker 10: of instructions. Here's how we work, Here's what we're trying
Speaker 10: to achieve. Here's exactly what I want you to do.
Speaker 10: I want you to triage this request. If there's enough information,
Speaker 10: send it to this team. If there's not enough information,
Speaker 10: put it over here. I know that I need data
Speaker 10: on this. Please do some initial discovery and answer me
Speaker 10: these three questions. These are those sorts of tasks that
Speaker 10: people can confidently ask AI and a SANA to do
Speaker 10: in the context.
Speaker 3: Of where their teams already work.
Speaker 10: ASANA has been thinking for a long time about the
Speaker 10: coordination of work across teams and complex organizations. That's a
Speaker 10: hard job, it's always complicated, but coordinating work with AI
Speaker 10: is the future and there needs to be a structured
Speaker 10: way to understand what have we asked AI to do,
Speaker 10: to do what we asked and see the impact of
Speaker 10: that work.
Speaker 3: But we'll getting better.
Speaker 2: There's prompts Asama's head of AI, Page Casteta, Thanks so
Speaker 2: much for spending some of my pleasity. Welcome back to
Speaker 2: roombag technology. I'm Karen Hide in New Yorker. Quick check
Speaker 2: on these markets which are macro fuel today we have
Speaker 2: record highs across the board, whether you're look at the
Speaker 2: S and P five hundred, whether you're looking at money
Speaker 2: pouring into technology stocks, pouring into the bond market as well.
Speaker 2: Why inflatory pressures they dial down three point four percent
Speaker 2: year on here for a CPI print. That is the
Speaker 2: coolest that we've seen in three years. What space does
Speaker 2: that give the federal reserve to cut rates later into
Speaker 2: the year. We have the FED, of course, announcing their
Speaker 2: decision in but a few hours time. We're currently seeing
Speaker 2: bitcoin getting a little bit of a move. Higher risk
Speaker 2: assets push higher three point eight percent.
Speaker 3: Move on to the individual movers, because we've got a
Speaker 3: tussle at the top.
Speaker 2: We've got market capitalizations that are eclipsing more than three trillion,
Speaker 2: and Apple eclipses Microsoft.
Speaker 3: We're back as number one.
Speaker 2: For Apple, We're up another five percent after moving seven
Speaker 2: percent yesterday. Extraordinary move for such a huge weighting of
Speaker 2: these indices. But Microsoft's also at one point two percent.
Speaker 2: It's more than three trillion dollars in terms of market cap.
Speaker 2: So two is Nvidia up almost four percent. It two
Speaker 2: is exceeding three trillion dollar and Tesla look about up
Speaker 2: four point three percent. Interesting calls coming from Kathy Word
Speaker 2: as to where we'll see this price target eventually. Remember
Speaker 2: the call for twenty six hundred is where they see
Speaker 2: it for twenty twenty nine for Arc invest But we've
Speaker 2: got more to digest when it comes to Tesla, and
Speaker 2: it's coming imminently because we've got a shareholder meeting tomorrow
Speaker 2: during which Elon Musk's fifty six billion dollar pay package
Speaker 2: will be debated, it'll be voted on and hearing now
Speaker 2: directly from an investor. Gerbert Kawasaki, CEO and President ros
Speaker 2: Gerber joins us along with our very own Max Chafkin,
Speaker 2: who is all in on Elon Inc. When it comes
Speaker 2: to the podcast around his various companies he controls Ross,
Speaker 2: I go to you first, Are you voting for or against?
Speaker 1: Well, I voted against the pay package mostly because I
Speaker 1: feel like it's a continuation of the disaster of the
Speaker 1: board of directors of Tesla's created by doing the pay
Speaker 1: package wrong on the first time and just trying to
Speaker 1: reratify the same thing. I think is just creating a
Speaker 1: lot more issues and problems than if they would have
Speaker 1: just done a new pay package and done this correctly
Speaker 1: the first time. So you know, at this point, paying
Speaker 1: Elon fifty billion dollars when you've seen the performance of
Speaker 1: the company falter since it's purchase of Twitter and he's
Speaker 1: made really no effort to sell vehicles and a huge
Speaker 1: effort just to get as fifty billion dollars, it really
Speaker 1: is the wrong message to send to shareholders corporate governance. Basically,
Speaker 1: this is a you know case study and how boards
Speaker 1: of directors can be so horrible.
Speaker 3: So horrible. Max your take and returns.
Speaker 2: I want to go to Max Traffick in hair on
Speaker 2: the fact that the share price is still a lot
Speaker 2: higher than it was perhaps back in twenty eighteen, has
Speaker 2: come down from its heavy heights of twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: when it's a click sing more than four hundred dollars.
Speaker 2: But your perspective here on him being distracted, as Ross talks.
Speaker 12: To, Yeah, I think we're looking at a close vote here,
Speaker 12: because on one hand, you have historically Elon Musk has
Speaker 12: been able to basically get anything he wants from Tesla's investors,
Speaker 12: and there has been this feeling among investors and especially
Speaker 12: among the board, which of course includes a lot of
Speaker 12: Elon musk friends, loyalists, even his brother, that he can
Speaker 12: basically do whatever he wants, whatever he wants is good
Speaker 12: for Tesla. On the other hand, he has not performed
Speaker 12: well by any normal metric as CEO over the last
Speaker 12: year or so.
Speaker 13: You know, the stock is down.
Speaker 12: There are all these distractions, you know, you know, the
Speaker 12: Wall Street Journal story today is just the latest example.
Speaker 13: Right, It's just been a series of kind of.
Speaker 12: Misfires, difficulties with poor stock performance, and at the same
Speaker 12: time Musk is asking for fifty six billion dollars. Now,
Speaker 12: of course he'll say, well, this is an older pay package.
Speaker 13: You look at the you know, five year trajectory. It's great.
Speaker 13: But again not every investor is going to be swayed
Speaker 13: by that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to be fat, I went from a price of
Speaker 2: about twenty and twenty eighteen RUSS all the way up
Speaker 2: to nearly four hundred and twenty twenty one. I'm interested
Speaker 2: therefore in your few of him as a leader right here,
Speaker 2: right now, He says, Look, if you don't give me
Speaker 2: more control of the company of Tesla, if you don't
Speaker 2: give me this money, I might walk. I might do
Speaker 2: more Ai stuff over XAI. Would that worry.
Speaker 1: You, Well, I think he's already done that in fact,
Speaker 1: so that's why the performance of Tesla's been so poor
Speaker 1: since he purchased Twitter is because he's not working at Tesla.
Speaker 1: You know, he's been you know, we consider him the pigeons.
Speaker 1: CEO now flies in kind of craps on. Everybody flies out,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's just not running the company. Compared
Speaker 1: to twenty eighteen, when he was sleeping there and working
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven to build this wonderful company. So
Speaker 1: you know, I benefited greatly from the success of Tesla,
Speaker 1: but I also took enormous risk investing with with Elon
Speaker 1: over the last ten years, and many thought the company
Speaker 1: was going to go bankrupt five years ago, and I
Speaker 1: supported him through all this. And so the fact that
Speaker 1: I benefited greatly as a shareholder was a byproduct with
Speaker 1: a risk I was willing to take on Elon, and
Speaker 1: that it paid off.
Speaker 5: It was great, But that doesn't change where we are today.
Speaker 1: And that's the issue is what's going to happen in
Speaker 1: Tesla over the next five years.
Speaker 5: Kathy Woods obviously wildly optimistic. But if he leaves the
Speaker 5: company because he doesn't get what he wants, well, where's
Speaker 5: Tesla going to be in five years? Right?
Speaker 1: So the fact that he has so much money, He's
Speaker 1: got eighty ninety one hundred billion dollars in net worth
Speaker 1: in Tesla, but yet that's not incentive enough.
Speaker 5: To work at Tesla.
Speaker 1: I mean, he made over ninety billion dollars just in
Speaker 1: gains from the stock he owned already, So it's not
Speaker 1: like he hasn't benefited greatly from Tesla's success, and so
Speaker 1: this is why this whole thing is outrageous and ultimately
Speaker 1: going to cost shareholders twenty five billion dollars of tax
Speaker 1: that will have to pay for when he gets this award,
Speaker 1: if he gets it, because that's the taxable consequence that
Speaker 1: shareholders are going to have to pay.
Speaker 5: So this is a tough situation for shareholders.
Speaker 2: Interesting context there, Maxy, the shareholders you speak to, the
Speaker 2: way in which you do your reporting for elonin I mean,
Speaker 2: you said it's going to be a close call. Here
Speaker 2: have we heard from some of the big institutions as
Speaker 2: to whether they support him and why would they support him?
Speaker 12: Yeah, Roley speaking, there are some exceptions to this, but
Speaker 12: you have a lot of institutional investors who are opposed
Speaker 12: to the pay package, and then you have a lot
Speaker 12: of retail investors. Basically many of these people are just
Speaker 12: you know, Tesla enthusiasts, people who are who really care
Speaker 12: about the band and really care about Elon Musk, and
Speaker 12: they are by and large supporting Elon Musk at least
Speaker 12: to talk about our reporting and what Elon Musk himself
Speaker 12: is saying, take that with a grain of salt. So
Speaker 12: you have those two things, kind of intention, and the
Speaker 12: question is who shows up to vote, and you know
Speaker 12: how many of them are there. Tesla has been campaigning really,
Speaker 12: really hard over the last couple of weeks. We talked
Speaker 12: about this on the podcast.
Speaker 13: You have videos.
Speaker 12: There's a video of optimists the Tesla robot talking to
Speaker 12: people saying, oh you should you know, vote your shares.
Speaker 12: And as we said on the podcast that dropped yesterday,
Speaker 12: you know, they've been calling Tesla employees. You've seen a
Speaker 12: lot of former Tesla employees show up on Twitter and
Speaker 12: support of this.
Speaker 13: So there's a lot of activity.
Speaker 12: It's almost like a political campaign.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, way in hand of us.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 1: I mean I've gotten calls and emails and and all
Speaker 1: kinds of ads and and I was like so insulted
Speaker 1: that after a year of saying that Tesla needs PR
Speaker 1: and to Vasley needs ads to sell Model Wise and
Speaker 1: sales going down and down and down, then they pull
Speaker 1: out all the stops for Elon's pay. They have a
Speaker 1: PR team actually working they I mean, I can't even
Speaker 1: tell you how obnoxious it is that this is about
Speaker 1: his pay, the richest man in the world, while the
Speaker 1: company's languishing and can't sell model wise and save their lives,
Speaker 1: and they're discounting and left and right, and they won't
Speaker 1: run an ad. So I think this has become like
Speaker 1: a referendum on Elon, and you know, it really shouldn't
Speaker 1: have been and this is really.
Speaker 5: Just, you know, a horrible situation for Tesla. Cherylders Ross.
Speaker 2: Can I dig in on the PR team working double
Speaker 2: time because they are surely working double time today? And
Speaker 2: there is this Wall Street Journal report which we cited
Speaker 2: earlier in the show, where Elon Musk is being accused
Speaker 2: of having pursued women working over at SpaceX.
Speaker 3: This is Wall Street Journal reporting.
Speaker 2: But does this affect you as a shareholder of Tesla
Speaker 2: in your viewpoint of him as a leader.
Speaker 5: I don't think he's pursuing women.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I don't know what he really does,
Speaker 1: but I wish he was spending more time with women,
Speaker 1: to be honest, I think that would help him greatly
Speaker 1: and if it was in a positive way. But I
Speaker 1: don't see him as that type of person. I think
Speaker 1: he's very very focused on his goals, which is getting
Speaker 1: off Earth, replacing the human race with robots, and living
Speaker 1: on Mars by himself.
Speaker 5: So you know, I don't know. I don't know, but
Speaker 5: I don't take these.
Speaker 1: Kind of claims personal claims as valid unless they're actual,
Speaker 1: you know, proof of this stuff.
Speaker 2: Okay, So questioning some of the reporting there, Ross, I'm
Speaker 2: interested in Max and ultimately where we go after this vote,
Speaker 2: because if it's a referendum Moneyla musk himself and it
Speaker 2: doesn't go his way, well, it doesn't actually have or
Speaker 2: even if it does go away, it doesn't actually affect
Speaker 2: whether or not the money goes to him.
Speaker 3: It's still all about a judge.
Speaker 13: Right, Yeah, we talked about this earlier this week. This
Speaker 13: is not a binding vote.
Speaker 12: It also doesn't it doesn't have any legal consequences. Tesla's
Speaker 12: hope here is that the vote is overwhelmingly in support,
Speaker 12: they take it back to the Delaware courts and this
Speaker 12: is part of their appeal and that is the plan
Speaker 12: kind of a novel legal strategy to save this pay
Speaker 12: package so they don't have to renegotiate it.
Speaker 13: I think that the.
Speaker 12: Challenge here, and what will be really difficult for shareholders
Speaker 12: probably Tesla employees as well, is if the vote does
Speaker 12: not go his way, where does it go? Because because
Speaker 12: we know from having followed Elon Musk. He is not
Speaker 12: going to be happy. He's already made threats, you know,
Speaker 12: as Ross is alluding to to to you know, sort
Speaker 12: of essentially take his talents elsewhere.
Speaker 13: And you do wonder if he's faced with a smaller.
Speaker 3: Pay package, well, how much smaller is it going to be?
Speaker 12: And then it becomes this challenge of like keeping Elon
Speaker 12: Musk motivated, which again is funny because he's getting paid
Speaker 12: a lot of money one way or the other. And
Speaker 12: he's also said that Tesla, you know, is his life's work.
Speaker 12: On the other hand, Ai is very hot, he has XAI.
Speaker 12: You know, there is there is this threat, so you
Speaker 12: worry if you're an investor, that he's going to like
Speaker 12: take his ball and go home, and that could we
Speaker 12: too massive upheaval at Tesla if that were to.
Speaker 2: Happen, well said, We thank you, Max. Just go and
Speaker 2: watch that, listen to that podcast, however you consume it
Speaker 2: dropping yesterday, all things elonning Meanwhile, or Gerbert Kawasaki CEO
Speaker 2: and President Ross Gerbert as always animated and thoughtful.
Speaker 3: On the show. We thank you very much for contributing
Speaker 3: ahead of We're a vote.
Speaker 2: You already said you said no to Meanwhile, coming up,
Speaker 2: we're going to be joined by Susan Lyme from BBG
Speaker 2: Ventures on.
Speaker 3: The heels of its second annual Accelerate Summit all Things
Speaker 3: Private Companies.
Speaker 2: That's next the Bluebog Technology.
Speaker 3: Time for VC Spotlight. Let's talk early stage investing now.
Speaker 2: Susan Lyne, co founder managing partner of BBG Ventures in
Speaker 2: town showing up of course with the annual Accelerate Summit,
Speaker 2: which is just taking place, bringing together hundreds of female,
Speaker 2: diverse founders across the country to come here to New
Speaker 2: York to talk about raising money, to talk about lessons
Speaker 2: learn as founders to help.
Speaker 3: Steer each other. One of the key takeaways.
Speaker 2: I mean was everyone on in on AI was that
Speaker 2: the topic digital.
Speaker 11: You know, it was definitely a topic, but it was
Speaker 11: not the topic because I think every company is starting
Speaker 11: out right now is starting with some kind of AI basis,
Speaker 11: so they have that advantage. But the things that people
Speaker 11: talked about more were, for example, product market fit right.
Speaker 11: I mean, it's always a challenge, and one of the
Speaker 11: things we heard over and over again is that you
Speaker 11: think you know what this customer needs. Everybody builds what
Speaker 11: they think is needed.
Speaker 3: In the market.
Speaker 11: And yet what you have to do is constantly be
Speaker 11: making sure that you're getting feedback from that customer, because
Speaker 11: five times out of ten you're off. You're off by
Speaker 11: something right. It may not be completely wrong. But there
Speaker 11: were multiple founders who talked about it, including April co
Speaker 11: who's the CEO of Spring Health, now a multi billion
Speaker 11: dollar Unicorn wholefolio company, a portfolio company, but she talked
Speaker 11: about how they started out and this is a mental
Speaker 11: health company. They deliver precision mental health care right now
Speaker 11: to companies that they started out thinking they were going
Speaker 11: to do software for doctors to be able to figure
Speaker 11: out what kind of antidepressants.
Speaker 3: To prescribe, and they hmitted.
Speaker 11: They would go in, they would pitch, and they would
Speaker 11: get black stares, and they finally were told by someone,
Speaker 11: you should all meet with our HR department because there
Speaker 11: are so many doctors and nurses here who need mental
Speaker 11: health care.
Speaker 2: But do these companies at this moment have the bandwidth
Speaker 2: when I mean bandwidth, the monetary bandwidth to be able
Speaker 2: to pivot to keep iterating, do they have that you
Speaker 2: allocating before they've got product market fit?
Speaker 11: Yeah, we do allocate to companies before they have product
Speaker 11: market fit you have to at seed stage because that's
Speaker 11: what you're doing between seed and Series A. But we
Speaker 11: hope we pick the founders who have the right approach
Speaker 11: to it and who have some data backing up the
Speaker 11: fact that they're on the right track. So you know,
Speaker 11: it's it's not a perfect science, but we have a
Speaker 11: good track record.
Speaker 2: Well, your track record is good, and we know you
Speaker 2: for media expertise for ABC News, we know well ABC TV.
Speaker 2: More broadly, we think of you for AOL, but we
Speaker 2: then think of you from office Stewart, We think of
Speaker 2: you across many a different landscape. Where are you allocating
Speaker 2: into industry groups are most tempting?
Speaker 11: Hmm, it's a really good question. We really look at
Speaker 11: large areas of the economy that need transformation, right, so healthcare, work,
Speaker 11: financial inclusion, climate and underserved consumers all very large markets
Speaker 11: markets that need change.
Speaker 3: They do.
Speaker 2: But climate, and there I say it, backing diverse founders
Speaker 2: has been buffeted around some and political climate. Are you
Speaker 2: still seeing as much LP institutional and interest and allocating
Speaker 2: to solving those sorts of problems?
Speaker 11: We are because I think that smart LPs understand that
Speaker 11: this is not about doing good, This is about looking
Speaker 11: at what the country looks like now, massive demographic shifts
Speaker 11: over the last couple of decades, And if you want
Speaker 11: to back people who are building new companies, you're probably
Speaker 11: going to have a competitive advantage if you are supporting
Speaker 11: people who actually have lived experience with these problems, these issues.
Speaker 2: You had Martha Stewart talking of her lived experience at
Speaker 2: the event yesterday. The lived experience for most allocators right
Speaker 2: now is some pretty heavy valuations if they've got anything
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 3: With AI in their name.
Speaker 2: But about the rest of the space, what sort size
Speaker 2: checks are you having to write now for a seed
Speaker 2: stage company, for an early stage.
Speaker 11: Company, Well, well, there are two different questions there. One
Speaker 11: is what size rounds are our seed founders going for?
Speaker 11: And that has gotten bigger.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 11: You know, if you look back four or five years ago,
Speaker 11: people were raising for twelve months, eighteen months, so they
Speaker 11: were raising maybe two million dollars, two and a half
Speaker 11: million dollars. Now we see a lot of seed rounds
Speaker 11: that are four or five six million dollars. And that's
Speaker 11: because founders it's not because they're spending more on a
Speaker 11: monthly basis, it's because they know in this market they're
Speaker 11: going to have to prove more, so they need that runway.
Speaker 11: They need twenty four months or thirty months. So we're
Speaker 11: seeing a lot of that. We write checks anywhere from
Speaker 11: five hundred thousand dollars to two million.
Speaker 3: Dollars, let's say.
Speaker 2: And when you get a macro context like inflation starting
Speaker 2: to cool, the Federal Reserve maybe looking to cut rates,
Speaker 2: but record highs for stocks, what does that mean in
Speaker 2: terms of money coming in to bench capital.
Speaker 11: You know, we haven't seen that happen yet, but my
Speaker 11: hope is that once interest rates begin to come down,
Speaker 11: that you will see more capital leaving the public markets
Speaker 11: and coming into the private markets again, well.
Speaker 2: Come to us as and when you're starting to see
Speaker 2: that flow when you're allocating the checks. It's been great
Speaker 2: to see a little bit of the work at the event.
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, we're so glad to have you. We appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Susan Lyne, co founder managing partner at BBG.
Speaker 2: Ventures Parahm Mount Global. The chair Sherry Redstone has decided
Speaker 2: to end those long fought negotiations for a merger between
Speaker 2: the legendary media company and of course David Ellison's Skydance Media.
Speaker 2: That's all according to sources who wrote the story. But
Speaker 2: it mostly for sure, he joins us. Now, I mean
Speaker 2: a saga runs.
Speaker 14: And runs, the Redstones never cease to amaze us, or
Speaker 14: they just don't take the easy option right. She pushed
Speaker 14: for this deal with David Ellison, She seemed to want
Speaker 14: to do a deal Skuide, and she had other options.
Speaker 14: She didn't engage seriously with Apollo, she didn't engage seriously
Speaker 14: with some of the people looking to buy the family
Speaker 14: holding company, and then at the last minute she decided
Speaker 14: she didn't want it. There are a lot of reasons
Speaker 14: that I've heard as to why.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, name like one or two of the
Speaker 3: most important.
Speaker 14: Look one, David Elison and Skydams had to revise their
Speaker 14: deal because other shareholders felt like.
Speaker 8: They were going to get stiff. Sherry Redstone was going.
Speaker 14: To get a good deal, and that new deal would
Speaker 14: have paid her less. It's up for debate how much
Speaker 14: that influenced it. It had to be something of the factor.
Speaker 14: I think she was concerned about being caught up in
Speaker 14: a bunch of litigation, which happened when she put CBS
Speaker 14: and Viacom together. Then I think there's a part of
Speaker 14: her where just look her Famili's controlled this company for decades.
Speaker 8: Is she really ready to give it up? She says
Speaker 8: she is, But she was at the altar and she
Speaker 8: she ran off.
Speaker 2: It's a legacy question many feel, and ultimately whether she's
Speaker 2: increased or eroded value. And at the moment, sadly, some
Speaker 2: analysts out there saying this has just been a complete
Speaker 2: erosion of value for Paramount.
Speaker 3: What the deal could have got for the business.
Speaker 8: Yeah, look, there's no great deal for Paramount right now.
Speaker 14: This is a business that was worth about thirty billion
Speaker 14: dollars when she puts CBS and Buyacom together. It's now
Speaker 14: less than ten depending on how you calculate it. Nobody's
Speaker 14: going to come and give them some huge deal that's
Speaker 14: going to make investors a ton of money. You have
Speaker 14: some investors that maybe just want it to be over
Speaker 14: with and be out of it. And Ellison represented a
Speaker 14: good option in that he was going to inject capital
Speaker 14: into the business, but a complicated option because he wanted
Speaker 14: to merge it with his company, and the valuation on
Speaker 14: his company some people see as being way too high.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is now we wonder who are the players
Speaker 2: left in the game. We had Jeffrey Katzenberg on the
Speaker 2: show a little bit earlier in the week, and I
Speaker 2: asked him about the value of Paramount and he was like, look,
Speaker 2: it still get a good deal. And then you talked
Speaker 2: to some interesting people gathering a room for breakfast.
Speaker 3: Just take a listen, because.
Speaker 5: I will tell you I just so.
Speaker 15: It went to an early breakfast, ran into Bob Iger, Jeffshell,
Speaker 15: and Brian Robbins all in one room at one time,
Speaker 15: the current president of Paramount, Jeff Shell, who's on Redbird,
Speaker 15: and Bob Iger, who's watching it all.
Speaker 9: It's quite a morning.
Speaker 2: So what do you think they were talking about or
Speaker 2: who What do we think ultimately will be deals that
Speaker 2: could be made for individual bits of streaming and other parts.
Speaker 3: Of the asset.
Speaker 14: Well, look, they're going to try to execute a strategy
Speaker 14: that a new owner would have done anyways, right, They're
Speaker 14: going to cut costs, They're going to look for some
Speaker 14: partnerships and streaming to build out the business. But it's
Speaker 14: not clear whether the three guys who are in charge
Speaker 14: right now are going to be there for that long.
Speaker 14: It seems like Sherry Redstone is still interested in maybe
Speaker 14: selling her family holding company, doing a cleaner, simpler deal.
Speaker 8: That's not necessarily great news for the.
Speaker 14: Other shareholders in Paramount, but it would be good for
Speaker 14: her and her family if that happens. You know, if
Speaker 14: she re engages with one of these other bidders, Edgar
Speaker 14: Bronfman with Baine Capital being one of them, their film
Speaker 14: producer Stephen Paul being another, you know, then we were
Speaker 14: signing up for several more weeks of negotiations and speculation
Speaker 14: and stories and all of that. If she decides to
Speaker 14: let the current leadership take a real run at it,
Speaker 14: you know, I think we'll see a painful but necessary
Speaker 14: change in terms of strategy at the company, which just
Speaker 14: can't figure out streaming right now.
Speaker 2: I'm going to let the audience decide which version of
Speaker 2: events you're going to want to happen the most. But
Speaker 2: there's certainly several Netflix documentaries and various movies to be
Speaker 2: made of a saga. Luca Shaw, we appreciate him for it.
Speaker 2: That does it for this edition of Really Meg Technology.
Speaker 2: Do not forget to check out our own podcast. You
Speaker 2: can find it on the terminal, Go check it out
Speaker 2: in line.
Speaker 3: Apple, Spotify.
Speaker 2: iHeart this is pl Meg Technology.