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Speaker 1: From Mahart where Innovation, money and power Collie in Silicon Valley, NBN.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed loved Love.

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Speaker 2: I'm Caroline heid Oft Bloomberg's Weld headquarters in New York

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Speaker 2: and Ludlow is off.

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Speaker 3: This is Bloombag Technology coming up.

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Speaker 2: We break down Oracle's earnings and it's pushed into the

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Speaker 2: cloud computing space as a company hits a record high,

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Speaker 2: and we talk all things Elon Musk ahead of the

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Speaker 2: vote on his fifty six billion dollar pay.

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Speaker 3: Package, plus Paramount.

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Speaker 2: Walks away from a deal with Skyharts as it heads

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Speaker 2: back to square one to find a new bidder.

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Speaker 3: We discussed that and so much more throughout.

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Speaker 2: This hour, including record high after record high, and a

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Speaker 2: new company back on top.

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Speaker 3: I focus in on what's happening with Apple.

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Speaker 2: Extraordinary move for a company lay at about a three

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Speaker 2: trillion dollar market valuation to move twelve percent in two days, following,

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Speaker 2: of course WWDC, following the integration of artificial intelligence and

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Speaker 2: open AI, and of course it therefore starts to pip

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Speaker 2: a company to the post in terms of its overall

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Speaker 2: market valuation. Who now reign supreme Apple number one once again,

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Speaker 2: take it versus Microsoft. Microsoft, of course had been the

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Speaker 2: number one player for several months. Now we're back eclipsing

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Speaker 2: it for Apple. Check out the white line suddenly crishendering

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Speaker 2: to three point three trillion dollars. We've got also, though

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Speaker 2: still gains for the likes of Microsoft, gains the likes

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Speaker 2: and video also at about a three trillion dollar market capitalization.

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Speaker 2: We are fueling some of these valuations across the board

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Speaker 2: and also looking at what happened in for Oracle too,

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Speaker 2: another new record high for this particular player after its

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Speaker 2: actual earnings show real driving force when it comes to

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Speaker 2: its focus on cloud computing.

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Speaker 3: How can it.

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Speaker 2: Compete versus some of the other players like a Microsoft.

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Speaker 2: We're carrying up nine point eight percent on one day

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Speaker 2: alone for Oracle after its earnings came out the bell yesterday.

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Speaker 3: Let's get straight to it. Body Ford joins us.

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Speaker 2: Now for more and a good day for one eleison

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Speaker 2: at least, this one being Larry Ellison.

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Speaker 3: What did you make of the numbers?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Absolutely, with Oracle, it is all about that cloud

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Speaker 4: infrastructure number.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: We've seen across software in recent weeks that it's been

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Speaker 4: really difficult for those selling applications. Lucky for Oracle, their

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Speaker 4: big growth bet is that infrastructure, right, and so we

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Speaker 4: saw them sign a good number of deals. The bookings

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Speaker 4: were higher than anticipated, and there was that really important

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Speaker 4: partnership deal that Microsoft and open Ai said, Hey, we

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Speaker 4: actually don't even have enough capacity. We're going to use

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Speaker 4: Oracle's cloud to help train and work with open Ai,

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Speaker 4: which that was a very validating point for a lot

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Speaker 4: of investors who said that. Okay, I guess what Larry's

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Speaker 4: been talking about, that Oracle is the best for AI workloads.

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Speaker 4: There's got to be something there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Software Cat's coming out saying we've had record contract

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Speaker 2: sizes being signed in the previous quarter. That's going to

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Speaker 2: continue into the second half of the year. Brody, But

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Speaker 2: I'm really interested in, well, where is the fly in

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Speaker 2: the ointment? What about the focus on healthcare data because

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Speaker 2: that is still not growing particularly.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the whole healthcare bet was, for sure, kind of

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Speaker 4: not a big part of the earnings.

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Speaker 3: Here are funny.

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Speaker 4: Worst You know, Oracle purchase Cerner twenty eight billion dollars

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Speaker 4: tour or so years ago, so it's at the center

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Speaker 4: of our company now.

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Speaker 5: It hasn't panned out too well.

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Speaker 4: Financially thus far. But investors are saying, hey, you know what,

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Speaker 4: if you can clock ninety billion in bookings on cloud infrastructure,

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Speaker 4: maybe Cerner doesn't matter so much.

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Speaker 2: Well, for sure, markets thinking that Cerner doesn't matter so much.

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Speaker 2: At the moment, we're up thirty five billion dollars on

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Speaker 2: the day for Oracle and having its well currently training

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Speaker 2: at the highest on record brody Ford breaking down the

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Speaker 2: numbers for us, we appreciate it turning into the broader

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Speaker 2: markets and look, it is not just Oracle at a

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Speaker 2: new record high.

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Speaker 3: We're across the.

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Speaker 2: Board seeing money flowing into equities, into bonds. We're seeing

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Speaker 2: S and P five hundred more than a percent point

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Speaker 2: a new record high. Fifty four thirty eight is where

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Speaker 2: we trade. The NASDAC also powering up one point eight percent.

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Speaker 2: Why this is a macro story of the fact that

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Speaker 2: CPI print showing a three point four percent year on

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Speaker 2: year growth. Infration pressure is therefore the slowest in three years.

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Speaker 2: The two year yield absolutely plummets some fifteen basis points.

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Speaker 3: We're at four point six eight percent.

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Speaker 2: As people start to factor in that, yes, we will

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Speaker 2: get that rate cup come November, maybe even come September.

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Speaker 2: We all wait for the Federal Reserve decision later on

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Speaker 2: this afternoon. Bitcoin on the up and up. We're up

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Speaker 2: more than four percent, sixty one hundred and fifty six.

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Speaker 2: This paints a picture of risk on Sylvia Jabronski CEO

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Speaker 2: and CIO at Defiance ETFs to really talk as to

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Speaker 2: whether this is a wise decision right now.

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Speaker 6: I hete Caroline, well, I think, you know, in terms

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Speaker 6: of the Fed today and any potential cuts, I don't

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Speaker 6: you know, I don't anticipate anything coming. I do think

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Speaker 6: that the data was great, you know, you just kind

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Speaker 6: of ran through it. Inflation is clearly on the downtrend.

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Speaker 6: This is exactly what the FED wanted to see. It

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Speaker 6: gives them that to certainly a breathe and to be

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Speaker 6: a little bit less hawkish. But you know, if we

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Speaker 6: take anything from fetshair pal, it's that he's looking for.

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Speaker 7: More data before they make a decision.

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Speaker 6: So I think, you know, the call will be a

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Speaker 6: little bit of nine and won't crash the markets like

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Speaker 6: it has in you know, a few months past, and

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Speaker 6: so that's a good thing that we have some.

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Speaker 2: Stability there, stability enough to continue to think technology is

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Speaker 2: what leads us higher.

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Speaker 6: I think that technology is going to continue to lead

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Speaker 6: us higher. And you know the reason for that is

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Speaker 6: that we're just in the beginning stages.

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Speaker 7: Of this AI, you know, the Fourth Industrial Revolution.

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Speaker 6: It's only now starting to play into the earnings of

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Speaker 6: a lot of the you know mag five, six sevens

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Speaker 6: that have been reporting this last quarter.

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Speaker 7: So I think it's just in its.

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Speaker 6: Infancy in terms of how it's going to impact revenues

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Speaker 6: in the bottom line. And we haven't even started to

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Speaker 6: talk about how AI is transforming healthcare, how it's going

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Speaker 6: to transform you know, aerospace and defense, banking systems and

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Speaker 6: things like this, and so the companies who are the

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Speaker 6: key ingredients to that revolution are essentially the MAG seven

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Speaker 6: So I think they keep going.

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Speaker 7: And also, you know, look at the balance sheets. They're

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Speaker 7: earning their multiples.

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Speaker 6: Earnings projections are set to be about fourteen percent or

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Speaker 6: higher for the next couple of years. So, you know,

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Speaker 6: I think burning any major change in inflation, any geopolitical evvent,

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Speaker 6: you know, politics, of course, I think tech is a

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Speaker 6: safe place to play.

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Speaker 2: Apple's a weird one, though, because we're not expecting double

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Speaker 2: digit growth in revenue. In fact, the market is anticipating

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Speaker 2: a three percent increase in revenue for the next fiscal

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Speaker 2: coll to Soviet and yet they eclipsed Microsoft back is.

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Speaker 3: The most valuable company and rallying an extraordinary twelve percent

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Speaker 3: in the last couple of days.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and so Apple hasn't done anything though for a

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Speaker 6: couple of years. And it's really interesting because when the

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Speaker 6: whole you know, everything was kind of falling apart a

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Speaker 6: couple of years ago in twenty twenty two, all the

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Speaker 6: tech stocks were kind of you know, down and crashing

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Speaker 6: at standpoint, and Apple was the name that was holding

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Speaker 6: up the market. This year that shifted to the video

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Speaker 6: and you know, here we are in the video is

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Speaker 6: still up there and Apple has kind of regained It's

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Speaker 6: set on the throne here, you know, next to the

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Speaker 6: top players. And I think the story of there is

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Speaker 6: you know, pick up in China and then also some

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Speaker 6: talks of the AI integration and things like this they're

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Speaker 6: finding on the map with that. We just hadn't heard

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Speaker 6: anything compelling from them in a long time about that.

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Speaker 6: But you know, the big stories and if you start

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Speaker 6: getting upgrades on phones because actually this time they are

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Speaker 6: different and they have that AI play and then pick

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Speaker 6: up in China. You know, Pray deserves a little bit

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Speaker 6: of a stock increase there.

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Speaker 2: Can you talk us through some of the not just fundamentals,

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Speaker 2: but technicals are gonna be at play. As we had

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Speaker 2: head towards the end of the first half of the

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Speaker 2: year and we get a rebalancing moment in June, we

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Speaker 2: saw some big differences in shakeups in market capitalization.

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Speaker 3: Where will money move?

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Speaker 2: How will that continue to feed the biggest.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think you know, when you have about ninety

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Speaker 6: percent of the growth of you know, S and P

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Speaker 6: five hundred coming from four or five names, and then

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Speaker 6: you know forty percent of the growth coming from the

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Speaker 6: next two behind it, I don't think actually that the

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Speaker 6: that the you know, the rebounds will put it into

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Speaker 6: into kind of rebalance.

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Speaker 7: It'll it'll equalize it a little.

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Speaker 6: Bit better on the next rebalance, but it's probably not

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Speaker 6: going to change because the top market cap names are

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Speaker 6: going to remain the top market cab names and they're

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Speaker 6: going to end up leading the index forward. But you know,

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Speaker 6: around that that type of you know, around that type

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Speaker 6: of trading, when you're selling off a little bit of

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Speaker 6: this and taking up a little bit of that, you know,

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Speaker 6: you do get some market movement, but I just think

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Speaker 6: that they're all they're going to remain the top players

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Speaker 6: and there's probably not going to be a huge amount

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Speaker 6: of impact from the rebounds coming up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that all to do with perhaps the technology selects

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Speaker 2: sector Spider much being written by boom Bag Intelligence, Sylvia.

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Speaker 3: What about your own MtFs? Where's that performed? Where have

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Speaker 3: the bets been?

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Speaker 8: Right?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so o ours are in line with the market.

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Speaker 6: So our two biggest you know, ETF plays or a

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Speaker 6: ticker called five G and one called quantum, And essentially

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Speaker 6: what they do is they represent AI machine learning and

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Speaker 6: then all of the you know, widgets that go into

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Speaker 6: supporting that. So five G is the activity technology factor

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Speaker 6: of it all.

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Speaker 7: You know, you need low.

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Speaker 6: Latency obviously to process the data to make driver lest

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Speaker 6: cars work and all of that. And you know, we

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Speaker 6: don't talk about five G as much as we probably should.

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Speaker 6: I think pretty assuming will be talking about sixty actually,

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Speaker 6: and quantum is just like it's just benefiting because it's

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Speaker 6: all the AI sucks, it's navidea, it's you know, it's

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Speaker 6: all the kind of kind of home runs there that

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Speaker 6: are lead leading that revolution.

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Speaker 7: So that one's just been out of tear for us

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Speaker 7: this year, and I believe they're not commodities too right.

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Speaker 6: We've got to uranium play out there, and when you

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Speaker 6: think about things like uranium and copper and just energy

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Speaker 6: in general, the need to you know, process to run

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Speaker 6: the goods for AI, those names.

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Speaker 3: Play into cryptos. Att Yeah, I.

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Speaker 6: Still like crypto, you know, I think it's becoming further

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Speaker 6: and further commercialized. I think that there are enough of

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Speaker 6: institutional retail players out there that are willing to allocate

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Speaker 6: a small percentage of their assets to cryptocurrency. You know,

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Speaker 6: it's starting, it's it at some point started to diverge

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Speaker 6: from tech. Now it's playing along with tech again this week,

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Speaker 6: but it seems.

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Speaker 7: To be a forreholding and a lot of portfolios.

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Speaker 6: Looks the Billison dollars that flew into the ETFs just

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Speaker 6: tell me, tells me that it's around.

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Speaker 7: It's around to stay ether and bitcoin in particular.

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Speaker 3: Sylvia, it's great to have you back on the show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for spending some time with our

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Speaker 2: CEO CEO at Defiance ETFs. Those on a tear in

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Speaker 2: line with the market mean while coming up Musk's X

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Speaker 2: platform gains among gop users.

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Speaker 3: We're on that next for our own Kirk Wagner.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, there is another company that is doing particularly well today.

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Speaker 2: In fact, it has been for the last couple of days.

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Speaker 2: This on a partnership with Apple. We understand a firm

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Speaker 2: is extending its gains after that Apple Pay deal that

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Speaker 2: by now pay later company said it's payment products were

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Speaker 2: expected to be available in US Apple Pay.

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Speaker 3: Users this year. We're up almost nine percent. This is BLUEBG.

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Speaker 2: Technology time now for Talking Tech. First up, Paramount chair

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Speaker 2: Sharry Redstone has walked away from a deal to sell

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Speaker 2: her media empire to David Ellison, the son of The

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Speaker 2: Oracle founder. Redstone rejected the latest proposal from Ellison's sky

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Speaker 2: Dance on Tuesday after lengthy negotiations. Still there are other

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Speaker 2: bidders waiting in the wings, including Apollo Global Management, Seagram's

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Speaker 2: heir as Edgar Bronfman, and the independent film producer Stephen Paul.

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Speaker 2: Plus a Byte Dance is calling about FO one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty jobs in its Indonesian e.

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Speaker 3: Commerce arm now.

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Speaker 2: The move marks the first round of cuts since combining

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Speaker 2: its TikTok shop with local rival Tocopedia in that was

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Speaker 2: in January, according to people familiar with the matter of

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Speaker 2: Bite Dancers reducing staff across its e commerce teams, including

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Speaker 2: advertising and operations, and former President Donald Trump met with

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Speaker 2: several bitcoin miners and is mar a Lago estate Tuesday night.

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Speaker 3: That's according to the executive chairman of Queensbark.

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Speaker 2: Trump told attendees that he loves script are currency, said

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Speaker 2: it had been an advocate for miners if he retakes

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Speaker 2: a White House. Now, staying in politics and with it,

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Speaker 2: social media platform X formerly known as Twitter, of course,

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Speaker 2: has now grown in popular popularity among conservative users now.

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Speaker 2: According to a new PE research study, the number of

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Speaker 2: Republican users have more than tripled since Elon Musk's purchase

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Speaker 2: of the site back in October twenty twenty two, joining

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Speaker 2: us now being mos Kurt Wagner and a surprise to.

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Speaker 9: You, No, I don't think so. I think you know

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Speaker 9: when you look at what this report came out with,

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Speaker 9: this idea that X is becoming much more popular with

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Speaker 9: the political right, it sort of confirms what I think

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Speaker 9: we've all seen anecdotally for the last couple of years, right,

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Speaker 9: and that's led by the new owner, of course, Elon Musk,

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Speaker 9: who has been very vocal that the company he bought

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Speaker 9: he thought was very left of center politically and that

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Speaker 9: he wanted to move it more to the center and

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Speaker 9: to the right. And it's also been you know, his

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Speaker 9: own actions right reinstating President Trump, building relationships with other

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Speaker 9: right wing kind of leaders around the world in Argentina

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Speaker 9: and Brazil in places like that. So he's sort of

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Speaker 9: setting the stage and setting the example, I would say,

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Speaker 9: or you know, what he wants X to be. And

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Speaker 9: we're seeing this in the numbers now that it's becoming

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Speaker 9: much more popular with that you know, political politically conservative,

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Speaker 9: conservative group of people.

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Speaker 2: Therefore, are we seeing politically left of center exiting the platform.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, well some are exiting, but more than that, you know,

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Speaker 9: they're saying that they don't feel welcome. There was a

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Speaker 9: higher spike in liberal people who were saying that they

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Speaker 9: were more likely to be harassed or bullied on the

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Speaker 9: service than those who were conservative. So it's sort of

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Speaker 9: switched where. You know, for years, Caroline, as you remember,

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Speaker 9: conservatives said, hey, Twitter isn't a place where I'm welcome.

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Speaker 9: Twitter isn't a place where I can say what I

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Speaker 9: want to say. You know, they didn't feel like it

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Speaker 9: was their home, and it seems like those roles have

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Speaker 9: reversed now. It feels like, you know, the data sort

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Speaker 9: of suggests the conservatives believe that X is the place

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Speaker 9: for them and liberals are feeling less and less welcome there.

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Speaker 2: I just want to turn our attention to another one

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Speaker 2: of you know, musk companies, SpaceX, and indeed his behavior

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Speaker 2: there there's reporting is all coming from the Wall Street

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Speaker 2: Journal Cut at the moment. I'm sure you've read the

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Speaker 2: story Dan Elamsku has pursued women working at the company,

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Speaker 2: apparently for sex, including a former intern, citing AffA David's

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Speaker 2: signed by this woman and other interviews. What do you

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Speaker 2: make of the reporting coming from the Wall Street Channel today.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean it's a bombshell of a story, and

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Speaker 9: these allegations are quite serious, right as you point out

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Speaker 9: that that Elon, while running this company was seeking relationships,

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Speaker 9: sometimes sexual relationships with women who were his subordinates.

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Speaker 8: And I think, you.

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Speaker 9: Know, it certainly creates these questions about the power dynamics

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Speaker 9: of Elon's companies, and not just Space sex, but I

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Speaker 9: think it raises questions about all the companies that he's

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Speaker 9: running right now, and you know, is he abusing sort

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Speaker 9: of his role as the leader, the executive, the person

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Speaker 9: with the power to you know, create these relationships and

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Speaker 9: you know, these are all again allegations at this point.

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Speaker 9: Obviously the reporting looks like it's pretty solid, but I

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Speaker 9: just think again, it raises these questions for his other

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Speaker 9: companies and also for you know, Tesla right now they're

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Speaker 9: about to have a big vote of course on his

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Speaker 9: pay package and stuff. You wonder how much any of

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Speaker 9: this type of negative press around him could have an

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Speaker 9: impact on what happens to him in his other is

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Speaker 9: other companies in the Elon universe.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you point us forward, Kirk Wagner. We thank you

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Speaker 2: very much. Indeed, on all things Eno Muscular Time now

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Speaker 2: for a weekly AI and Action segment. Today, we're looking

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Speaker 2: at artificial intelligence in the workplace. Now, only seven percent

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Speaker 2: of organizations have mature AI implementations.

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Speaker 3: Their employees are three times.

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Speaker 2: More likely to report productivity gains from using AI and work.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the key highlights from a great new

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Speaker 2: report coming from Asana. It's all about the impact of

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Speaker 2: AI in the workplace, and we're going to bring in

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Speaker 2: Asana's head of AI, Page Costello for more on the findings,

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Speaker 2: and actually what took me by surprise is people are

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Speaker 2: feeling more optimistic about using it in the workplace.

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Speaker 10: Absolutely, Executives are very excited, and all the individual contributors

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Speaker 10: are also starting to use it quite a bit more.

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Speaker 10: One of the biggest things we saw is that more

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Speaker 10: than half of knowledge workers report that they're using Generative

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Speaker 10: AI weekly.

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Speaker 3: That's up thirty six percent in just six months.

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Speaker 2: How productive is it making them? What sort of gains

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Speaker 2: are those that are being early adopters seeing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we.

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Speaker 10: See that the people who use it daily report the

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Speaker 10: highest productivity gains. Eighty nine percent of people who use

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Speaker 10: it daily, so that they're seeing those gains, and only

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Speaker 10: thirty nine percent of people who use it monthly see

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Speaker 10: those games. So we know that the more you use it,

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Speaker 10: the more value you get.

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Speaker 8: Out of it.

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Speaker 2: Now, there's perhaps some sort of nervousness still. Certainly, if

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Speaker 2: you're a student, for example, using it, you're in many

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Speaker 2: ways getting a pushback from those that teach you. What

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Speaker 2: about in the workplace and people feeling that you're cutting

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Speaker 2: corners all that, actually this is the way you should

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Speaker 2: be working.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, it's up to organizations leaders to really improve AI

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Speaker 10: literacy and create a norm and set of expectations about

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Speaker 10: how to use AI. This is a big gap where

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Speaker 10: a lot of people aren't receiving training or guidance. Most

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Speaker 10: organizations don't have a rollout strategy for how to train

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Speaker 10: their employees at onboarding, how to really set up their

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Speaker 10: organizations to roll out which vendors and make selections about

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Speaker 10: how to get the most.

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Speaker 8: Out of AI.

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Speaker 10: People want to know that they're using it the right

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Speaker 10: way and that they're going to be supported and celebrated

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Speaker 10: for using AI for good.

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Speaker 2: Why is that infrastructure perhaps not being built around the

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Speaker 2: employee basis quickly? Is it nervousness on doing it right

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Speaker 2: and with the right guard wails? Is it just a

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Speaker 2: lack of knowledge from the top?

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Speaker 10: I think there's a bit of curiosity about like do

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Speaker 10: we have safe and reliable AI? Is it going to

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Speaker 10: give us the right decisions that we can make from

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Speaker 10: the data that we're getting. But honestly, I believe that

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Speaker 10: a good deal of this is purely uncertainty about what

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Speaker 10: it takes to.

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Speaker 3: Be a newbie.

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Speaker 10: A lot of these organizations and leaders are themselves learning

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Speaker 10: and trying to create a plan while learning. At the

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Speaker 10: same time, when the terrain is changing so quickly, it's

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Speaker 10: really challenging.

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Speaker 2: The reason Asana can do this sort of deep dive

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Speaker 2: research is because you're a work management platform. You're helping

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Speaker 2: companies Team Mobile for example Amazon, manage their own workflows

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Speaker 2: and executives therein How are.

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Speaker 3: You using it? How are you using it for your

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Speaker 3: clients too?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, well, I would say a few things.

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Speaker 11: One.

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Speaker 10: AI literacy is a priority for our organization. We want

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Speaker 10: to make sure every employee knows how to use AI

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Speaker 10: and how to get the most benefits for their teams.

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Speaker 10: We have an AI council that thinks creatively about what

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Speaker 10: are the tools that we need to use and how

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Speaker 10: to deploy Asauana. So Asana is an enterprise work management

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Speaker 10: platform used by eighty percent of the Fortune one hundred

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Speaker 10: to drive clarity and accountability at scale. And what we

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Speaker 10: see is that people are using Asauana's AI capabilities to

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Speaker 10: create quickly create status reports across cross sections of goals

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Speaker 10: and portfolios of work, but also work with our new

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Speaker 10: at needs where they can delegate specific parts of the

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Speaker 10: workflow and jobs to AI in the context of their

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Speaker 10: process in order to have more confidence that there's a

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Speaker 10: level of determinism that it will do the right thing.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about how ducinations. Let's talk about doing the

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Speaker 2: right thing. Have you seen any of that? Have you

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Speaker 2: got the statistics of how your own offering teammates is

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Speaker 2: working and performing and improving.

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Speaker 10: Absolutely, we're paying very close attention to the evaluations of

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Speaker 10: different models and how they perform in the context of ASAUNA.

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Speaker 10: What I'm most excited about is the way a sauna's

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Speaker 10: data model works is there's a context around the people

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Speaker 10: doing the work, who's doing what, by when, the timing

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Speaker 10: of that work, and the ultimate goals they're laddering towards.

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Speaker 10: And so what we see is the context of this

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Speaker 10: work helps AI engage with more knowledge. So instead of

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Speaker 10: surveying a vast amount of data and trying to surface

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Speaker 10: some summary, AI is given a very specific s out

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Speaker 10: of instructions. Here's how we work, Here's what we're trying

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Speaker 10: to achieve. Here's exactly what I want you to do.

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Speaker 10: I want you to triage this request. If there's enough information,

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Speaker 10: send it to this team. If there's not enough information,

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Speaker 10: put it over here. I know that I need data

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Speaker 10: on this. Please do some initial discovery and answer me

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Speaker 10: these three questions. These are those sorts of tasks that

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Speaker 10: people can confidently ask AI and a SANA to do

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Speaker 10: in the context.

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Speaker 3: Of where their teams already work.

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Speaker 10: ASANA has been thinking for a long time about the

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Speaker 10: coordination of work across teams and complex organizations. That's a

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Speaker 10: hard job, it's always complicated, but coordinating work with AI

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Speaker 10: is the future and there needs to be a structured

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Speaker 10: way to understand what have we asked AI to do,

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Speaker 10: to do what we asked and see the impact of

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Speaker 10: that work.

442
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:48,640
Speaker 3: But we'll getting better.

443
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 2: There's prompts Asama's head of AI, Page Casteta, Thanks so

444
00:20:52,359 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 2: much for spending some of my pleasity. Welcome back to

445
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 2: roombag technology. I'm Karen Hide in New Yorker. Quick check

446
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 2: on these markets which are macro fuel today we have

447
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 2: record highs across the board, whether you're look at the

448
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 2: S and P five hundred, whether you're looking at money

449
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 2: pouring into technology stocks, pouring into the bond market as well.

450
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 2: Why inflatory pressures they dial down three point four percent

451
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 2: year on here for a CPI print. That is the

452
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,680
Speaker 2: coolest that we've seen in three years. What space does

453
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 2: that give the federal reserve to cut rates later into

454
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,880
Speaker 2: the year. We have the FED, of course, announcing their

455
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 2: decision in but a few hours time. We're currently seeing

456
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,640
Speaker 2: bitcoin getting a little bit of a move. Higher risk

457
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 2: assets push higher three point eight percent.

458
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 3: Move on to the individual movers, because we've got a

459
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 3: tussle at the top.

460
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 2: We've got market capitalizations that are eclipsing more than three trillion,

461
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 2: and Apple eclipses Microsoft.

462
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 3: We're back as number one.

463
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 2: For Apple, We're up another five percent after moving seven

464
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,959
Speaker 2: percent yesterday. Extraordinary move for such a huge weighting of

465
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 2: these indices. But Microsoft's also at one point two percent.

466
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 2: It's more than three trillion dollars in terms of market cap.

467
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 2: So two is Nvidia up almost four percent. It two

468
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 2: is exceeding three trillion dollar and Tesla look about up

469
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 2: four point three percent. Interesting calls coming from Kathy Word

470
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 2: as to where we'll see this price target eventually. Remember

471
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 2: the call for twenty six hundred is where they see

472
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 2: it for twenty twenty nine for Arc invest But we've

473
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,199
Speaker 2: got more to digest when it comes to Tesla, and

474
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 2: it's coming imminently because we've got a shareholder meeting tomorrow

475
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 2: during which Elon Musk's fifty six billion dollar pay package

476
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 2: will be debated, it'll be voted on and hearing now

477
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 2: directly from an investor. Gerbert Kawasaki, CEO and President ros

478
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 2: Gerber joins us along with our very own Max Chafkin,

479
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 2: who is all in on Elon Inc. When it comes

480
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 2: to the podcast around his various companies he controls Ross,

481
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,880
Speaker 2: I go to you first, Are you voting for or against?

482
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,959
Speaker 1: Well, I voted against the pay package mostly because I

483
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: feel like it's a continuation of the disaster of the

484
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: board of directors of Tesla's created by doing the pay

485
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 1: package wrong on the first time and just trying to

486
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: reratify the same thing. I think is just creating a

487
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 1: lot more issues and problems than if they would have

488
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 1: just done a new pay package and done this correctly

489
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: the first time. So you know, at this point, paying

490
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: Elon fifty billion dollars when you've seen the performance of

491
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: the company falter since it's purchase of Twitter and he's

492
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: made really no effort to sell vehicles and a huge

493
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: effort just to get as fifty billion dollars, it really

494
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: is the wrong message to send to shareholders corporate governance. Basically,

495
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: this is a you know case study and how boards

496
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 1: of directors can be so horrible.

497
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 3: So horrible. Max your take and returns.

498
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 2: I want to go to Max Traffick in hair on

499
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: the fact that the share price is still a lot

500
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: higher than it was perhaps back in twenty eighteen, has

501
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 2: come down from its heavy heights of twenty twenty one,

502
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 2: when it's a click sing more than four hundred dollars.

503
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: But your perspective here on him being distracted, as Ross talks.

504
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 12: To, Yeah, I think we're looking at a close vote here,

505
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,239
Speaker 12: because on one hand, you have historically Elon Musk has

506
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 12: been able to basically get anything he wants from Tesla's investors,

507
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,479
Speaker 12: and there has been this feeling among investors and especially

508
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 12: among the board, which of course includes a lot of

509
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 12: Elon musk friends, loyalists, even his brother, that he can

510
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 12: basically do whatever he wants, whatever he wants is good

511
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 12: for Tesla. On the other hand, he has not performed

512
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 12: well by any normal metric as CEO over the last

513
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 12: year or so.

514
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 13: You know, the stock is down.

515
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 12: There are all these distractions, you know, you know, the

516
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 12: Wall Street Journal story today is just the latest example.

517
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 13: Right, It's just been a series of kind of.

518
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 12: Misfires, difficulties with poor stock performance, and at the same

519
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 12: time Musk is asking for fifty six billion dollars. Now,

520
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 12: of course he'll say, well, this is an older pay package.

521
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 13: You look at the you know, five year trajectory. It's great.

522
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 13: But again not every investor is going to be swayed

523
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 13: by that.

524
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, to be fat, I went from a price of

525
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 2: about twenty and twenty eighteen RUSS all the way up

526
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 2: to nearly four hundred and twenty twenty one. I'm interested

527
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 2: therefore in your few of him as a leader right here,

528
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: right now, He says, Look, if you don't give me

529
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 2: more control of the company of Tesla, if you don't

530
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: give me this money, I might walk. I might do

531
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: more Ai stuff over XAI. Would that worry.

532
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: You, Well, I think he's already done that in fact,

533
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: so that's why the performance of Tesla's been so poor

534
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: since he purchased Twitter is because he's not working at Tesla.

535
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 1: You know, he's been you know, we consider him the pigeons.

536
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: CEO now flies in kind of craps on. Everybody flies out,

537
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: and you know, it's just not running the company. Compared

538
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: to twenty eighteen, when he was sleeping there and working

539
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven to build this wonderful company. So

540
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: you know, I benefited greatly from the success of Tesla,

541
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: but I also took enormous risk investing with with Elon

542
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: over the last ten years, and many thought the company

543
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: was going to go bankrupt five years ago, and I

544
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,959
Speaker 1: supported him through all this. And so the fact that

545
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: I benefited greatly as a shareholder was a byproduct with

546
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: a risk I was willing to take on Elon, and

547
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: that it paid off.

548
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 5: It was great, But that doesn't change where we are today.

549
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: And that's the issue is what's going to happen in

550
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: Tesla over the next five years.

551
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 5: Kathy Woods obviously wildly optimistic. But if he leaves the

552
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 5: company because he doesn't get what he wants, well, where's

553
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 5: Tesla going to be in five years? Right?

554
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: So the fact that he has so much money, He's

555
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: got eighty ninety one hundred billion dollars in net worth

556
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: in Tesla, but yet that's not incentive enough.

557
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 5: To work at Tesla.

558
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: I mean, he made over ninety billion dollars just in

559
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: gains from the stock he owned already, So it's not

560
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: like he hasn't benefited greatly from Tesla's success, and so

561
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: this is why this whole thing is outrageous and ultimately

562
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: going to cost shareholders twenty five billion dollars of tax

563
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: that will have to pay for when he gets this award,

564
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 1: if he gets it, because that's the taxable consequence that

565
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: shareholders are going to have to pay.

566
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 5: So this is a tough situation for shareholders.

567
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 2: Interesting context there, Maxy, the shareholders you speak to, the

568
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: way in which you do your reporting for elonin I mean,

569
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 2: you said it's going to be a close call. Here

570
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 2: have we heard from some of the big institutions as

571
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 2: to whether they support him and why would they support him?

572
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 12: Yeah, Roley speaking, there are some exceptions to this, but

573
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 12: you have a lot of institutional investors who are opposed

574
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 12: to the pay package, and then you have a lot

575
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 12: of retail investors. Basically many of these people are just

576
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 12: you know, Tesla enthusiasts, people who are who really care

577
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 12: about the band and really care about Elon Musk, and

578
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 12: they are by and large supporting Elon Musk at least

579
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 12: to talk about our reporting and what Elon Musk himself

580
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 12: is saying, take that with a grain of salt. So

581
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 12: you have those two things, kind of intention, and the

582
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 12: question is who shows up to vote, and you know

583
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 12: how many of them are there. Tesla has been campaigning really,

584
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 12: really hard over the last couple of weeks. We talked

585
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 12: about this on the podcast.

586
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 13: You have videos.

587
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 12: There's a video of optimists the Tesla robot talking to

588
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 12: people saying, oh you should you know, vote your shares.

589
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 12: And as we said on the podcast that dropped yesterday,

590
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 12: you know, they've been calling Tesla employees. You've seen a

591
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 12: lot of former Tesla employees show up on Twitter and

592
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 12: support of this.

593
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 13: So there's a lot of activity.

594
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 12: It's almost like a political campaign.

595
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, way in hand of us.

596
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 5: No.

597
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: I mean I've gotten calls and emails and and all

598
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: kinds of ads and and I was like so insulted

599
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: that after a year of saying that Tesla needs PR

600
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: and to Vasley needs ads to sell Model Wise and

601
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: sales going down and down and down, then they pull

602
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: out all the stops for Elon's pay. They have a

603
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: PR team actually working they I mean, I can't even

604
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: tell you how obnoxious it is that this is about

605
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: his pay, the richest man in the world, while the

606
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: company's languishing and can't sell model wise and save their lives,

607
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: and they're discounting and left and right, and they won't

608
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,959
Speaker 1: run an ad. So I think this has become like

609
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: a referendum on Elon, and you know, it really shouldn't

610
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: have been and this is really.

611
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 5: Just, you know, a horrible situation for Tesla. Cherylders Ross.

612
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 2: Can I dig in on the PR team working double

613
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: time because they are surely working double time today? And

614
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: there is this Wall Street Journal report which we cited

615
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 2: earlier in the show, where Elon Musk is being accused

616
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: of having pursued women working over at SpaceX.

617
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 3: This is Wall Street Journal reporting.

618
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 2: But does this affect you as a shareholder of Tesla

619
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: in your viewpoint of him as a leader.

620
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 5: I don't think he's pursuing women.

621
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I don't know what he really does,

622
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: but I wish he was spending more time with women,

623
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: to be honest, I think that would help him greatly

624
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: and if it was in a positive way. But I

625
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: don't see him as that type of person. I think

626
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: he's very very focused on his goals, which is getting

627
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: off Earth, replacing the human race with robots, and living

628
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: on Mars by himself.

629
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 5: So you know, I don't know. I don't know, but

630
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 5: I don't take these.

631
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: Kind of claims personal claims as valid unless they're actual,

632
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,479
Speaker 1: you know, proof of this stuff.

633
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: Okay, So questioning some of the reporting there, Ross, I'm

634
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 2: interested in Max and ultimately where we go after this vote,

635
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 2: because if it's a referendum Moneyla musk himself and it

636
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: doesn't go his way, well, it doesn't actually have or

637
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: even if it does go away, it doesn't actually affect

638
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 2: whether or not the money goes to him.

639
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 3: It's still all about a judge.

640
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 13: Right, Yeah, we talked about this earlier this week. This

641
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 13: is not a binding vote.

642
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 12: It also doesn't it doesn't have any legal consequences. Tesla's

643
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 12: hope here is that the vote is overwhelmingly in support,

644
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 12: they take it back to the Delaware courts and this

645
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 12: is part of their appeal and that is the plan

646
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 12: kind of a novel legal strategy to save this pay

647
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 12: package so they don't have to renegotiate it.

648
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 13: I think that the.

649
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 12: Challenge here, and what will be really difficult for shareholders

650
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 12: probably Tesla employees as well, is if the vote does

651
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 12: not go his way, where does it go? Because because

652
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 12: we know from having followed Elon Musk. He is not

653
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 12: going to be happy. He's already made threats, you know,

654
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 12: as Ross is alluding to to to you know, sort

655
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 12: of essentially take his talents elsewhere.

656
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 13: And you do wonder if he's faced with a smaller.

657
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 3: Pay package, well, how much smaller is it going to be?

658
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 12: And then it becomes this challenge of like keeping Elon

659
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 12: Musk motivated, which again is funny because he's getting paid

660
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 12: a lot of money one way or the other. And

661
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 12: he's also said that Tesla, you know, is his life's work.

662
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 12: On the other hand, Ai is very hot, he has XAI.

663
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 12: You know, there is there is this threat, so you

664
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 12: worry if you're an investor, that he's going to like

665
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 12: take his ball and go home, and that could we

666
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 12: too massive upheaval at Tesla if that were to.

667
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 2: Happen, well said, We thank you, Max. Just go and

668
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: watch that, listen to that podcast, however you consume it

669
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: dropping yesterday, all things elonning Meanwhile, or Gerbert Kawasaki CEO

670
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: and President Ross Gerbert as always animated and thoughtful.

671
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: On the show. We thank you very much for contributing

672
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 3: ahead of We're a vote.

673
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 2: You already said you said no to Meanwhile, coming up,

674
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 2: we're going to be joined by Susan Lyme from BBG

675
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: Ventures on.

676
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 3: The heels of its second annual Accelerate Summit all Things

677
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 3: Private Companies.

678
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: That's next the Bluebog Technology.

679
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 3: Time for VC Spotlight. Let's talk early stage investing now.

680
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: Susan Lyne, co founder managing partner of BBG Ventures in

681
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,959
Speaker 2: town showing up of course with the annual Accelerate Summit,

682
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: which is just taking place, bringing together hundreds of female,

683
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: diverse founders across the country to come here to New

684
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: York to talk about raising money, to talk about lessons

685
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: learn as founders to help.

686
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 3: Steer each other. One of the key takeaways.

687
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,239
Speaker 2: I mean was everyone on in on AI was that

688
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: the topic digital.

689
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,239
Speaker 11: You know, it was definitely a topic, but it was

690
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 11: not the topic because I think every company is starting

691
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 11: out right now is starting with some kind of AI basis,

692
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 11: so they have that advantage. But the things that people

693
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 11: talked about more were, for example, product market fit right.

694
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 11: I mean, it's always a challenge, and one of the

695
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 11: things we heard over and over again is that you

696
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 11: think you know what this customer needs. Everybody builds what

697
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 11: they think is needed.

698
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 3: In the market.

699
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 11: And yet what you have to do is constantly be

700
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 11: making sure that you're getting feedback from that customer, because

701
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 11: five times out of ten you're off. You're off by

702
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 11: something right. It may not be completely wrong. But there

703
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 11: were multiple founders who talked about it, including April co

704
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 11: who's the CEO of Spring Health, now a multi billion

705
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 11: dollar Unicorn wholefolio company, a portfolio company, but she talked

706
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 11: about how they started out and this is a mental

707
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 11: health company. They deliver precision mental health care right now

708
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 11: to companies that they started out thinking they were going

709
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 11: to do software for doctors to be able to figure

710
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 11: out what kind of antidepressants.

711
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 3: To prescribe, and they hmitted.

712
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 11: They would go in, they would pitch, and they would

713
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 11: get black stares, and they finally were told by someone,

714
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 11: you should all meet with our HR department because there

715
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 11: are so many doctors and nurses here who need mental

716
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 11: health care.

717
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: But do these companies at this moment have the bandwidth

718
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: when I mean bandwidth, the monetary bandwidth to be able

719
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: to pivot to keep iterating, do they have that you

720
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: allocating before they've got product market fit?

721
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 11: Yeah, we do allocate to companies before they have product

722
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 11: market fit you have to at seed stage because that's

723
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 11: what you're doing between seed and Series A. But we

724
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 11: hope we pick the founders who have the right approach

725
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 11: to it and who have some data backing up the

726
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 11: fact that they're on the right track. So you know,

727
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 11: it's it's not a perfect science, but we have a

728
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 11: good track record.

729
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 2: Well, your track record is good, and we know you

730
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:27,479
Speaker 2: for media expertise for ABC News, we know well ABC TV.

731
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 2: More broadly, we think of you for AOL, but we

732
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: then think of you from office Stewart, We think of

733
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: you across many a different landscape. Where are you allocating

734
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: into industry groups are most tempting?

735
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 11: Hmm, it's a really good question. We really look at

736
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 11: large areas of the economy that need transformation, right, so healthcare, work,

737
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 11: financial inclusion, climate and underserved consumers all very large markets

738
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 11: markets that need change.

739
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 3: They do.

740
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 2: But climate, and there I say it, backing diverse founders

741
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: has been buffeted around some and political climate. Are you

742
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: still seeing as much LP institutional and interest and allocating

743
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 2: to solving those sorts of problems?

744
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 11: We are because I think that smart LPs understand that

745
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 11: this is not about doing good, This is about looking

746
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 11: at what the country looks like now, massive demographic shifts

747
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 11: over the last couple of decades, And if you want

748
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 11: to back people who are building new companies, you're probably

749
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 11: going to have a competitive advantage if you are supporting

750
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 11: people who actually have lived experience with these problems, these issues.

751
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 2: You had Martha Stewart talking of her lived experience at

752
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 2: the event yesterday. The lived experience for most allocators right

753
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: now is some pretty heavy valuations if they've got anything

754
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: to do.

755
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 3: With AI in their name.

756
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,240
Speaker 2: But about the rest of the space, what sort size

757
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 2: checks are you having to write now for a seed

758
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: stage company, for an early stage.

759
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 11: Company, Well, well, there are two different questions there. One

760
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 11: is what size rounds are our seed founders going for?

761
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 11: And that has gotten bigger.

762
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 8: Yeah.

763
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 11: You know, if you look back four or five years ago,

764
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 11: people were raising for twelve months, eighteen months, so they

765
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 11: were raising maybe two million dollars, two and a half

766
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 11: million dollars. Now we see a lot of seed rounds

767
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 11: that are four or five six million dollars. And that's

768
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 11: because founders it's not because they're spending more on a

769
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,439
Speaker 11: monthly basis, it's because they know in this market they're

770
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 11: going to have to prove more, so they need that runway.

771
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 11: They need twenty four months or thirty months. So we're

772
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 11: seeing a lot of that. We write checks anywhere from

773
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 11: five hundred thousand dollars to two million.

774
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 3: Dollars, let's say.

775
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 2: And when you get a macro context like inflation starting

776
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 2: to cool, the Federal Reserve maybe looking to cut rates,

777
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: but record highs for stocks, what does that mean in

778
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 2: terms of money coming in to bench capital.

779
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 11: You know, we haven't seen that happen yet, but my

780
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 11: hope is that once interest rates begin to come down,

781
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 11: that you will see more capital leaving the public markets

782
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 11: and coming into the private markets again, well.

783
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 2: Come to us as and when you're starting to see

784
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: that flow when you're allocating the checks. It's been great

785
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: to see a little bit of the work at the event.

786
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, we're so glad to have you. We appreciate it.

787
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: Susan Lyne, co founder managing partner at BBG.

788
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: Ventures Parahm Mount Global. The chair Sherry Redstone has decided

789
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 2: to end those long fought negotiations for a merger between

790
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 2: the legendary media company and of course David Ellison's Skydance Media.

791
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 2: That's all according to sources who wrote the story. But

792
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: it mostly for sure, he joins us. Now, I mean

793
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 2: a saga runs.

794
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 14: And runs, the Redstones never cease to amaze us, or

795
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 14: they just don't take the easy option right. She pushed

796
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 14: for this deal with David Ellison, She seemed to want

797
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 14: to do a deal Skuide, and she had other options.

798
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 14: She didn't engage seriously with Apollo, she didn't engage seriously

799
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 14: with some of the people looking to buy the family

800
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 14: holding company, and then at the last minute she decided

801
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 14: she didn't want it. There are a lot of reasons

802
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 14: that I've heard as to why.

803
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, name like one or two of the

804
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 3: most important.

805
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 14: Look one, David Elison and Skydams had to revise their

806
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 14: deal because other shareholders felt like.

807
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 8: They were going to get stiff. Sherry Redstone was going.

808
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 14: To get a good deal, and that new deal would

809
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 14: have paid her less. It's up for debate how much

810
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 14: that influenced it. It had to be something of the factor.

811
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 14: I think she was concerned about being caught up in

812
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 14: a bunch of litigation, which happened when she put CBS

813
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 14: and Viacom together. Then I think there's a part of

814
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 14: her where just look her Famili's controlled this company for decades.

815
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 8: Is she really ready to give it up? She says

816
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 8: she is, But she was at the altar and she

817
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 8: she ran off.

818
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 2: It's a legacy question many feel, and ultimately whether she's

819
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 2: increased or eroded value. And at the moment, sadly, some

820
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 2: analysts out there saying this has just been a complete

821
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:03,720
Speaker 2: erosion of value for Paramount.

822
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 3: What the deal could have got for the business.

823
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 8: Yeah, look, there's no great deal for Paramount right now.

824
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,720
Speaker 14: This is a business that was worth about thirty billion

825
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 14: dollars when she puts CBS and Buyacom together. It's now

826
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 14: less than ten depending on how you calculate it. Nobody's

827
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 14: going to come and give them some huge deal that's

828
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 14: going to make investors a ton of money. You have

829
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 14: some investors that maybe just want it to be over

830
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 14: with and be out of it. And Ellison represented a

831
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 14: good option in that he was going to inject capital

832
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 14: into the business, but a complicated option because he wanted

833
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 14: to merge it with his company, and the valuation on

834
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 14: his company some people see as being way too high.

835
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 2: What's interesting is now we wonder who are the players

836
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: left in the game. We had Jeffrey Katzenberg on the

837
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 2: show a little bit earlier in the week, and I

838
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 2: asked him about the value of Paramount and he was like, look,

839
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: it still get a good deal. And then you talked

840
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 2: to some interesting people gathering a room for breakfast.

841
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 3: Just take a listen, because.

842
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 5: I will tell you I just so.

843
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 15: It went to an early breakfast, ran into Bob Iger, Jeffshell,

844
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 15: and Brian Robbins all in one room at one time,

845
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 15: the current president of Paramount, Jeff Shell, who's on Redbird,

846
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 15: and Bob Iger, who's watching it all.

847
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 9: It's quite a morning.

848
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 2: So what do you think they were talking about or

849
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: who What do we think ultimately will be deals that

850
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 2: could be made for individual bits of streaming and other parts.

851
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: Of the asset.

852
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 14: Well, look, they're going to try to execute a strategy

853
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 14: that a new owner would have done anyways, right, They're

854
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 14: going to cut costs, They're going to look for some

855
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 14: partnerships and streaming to build out the business. But it's

856
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 14: not clear whether the three guys who are in charge

857
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 14: right now are going to be there for that long.

858
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 14: It seems like Sherry Redstone is still interested in maybe

859
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 14: selling her family holding company, doing a cleaner, simpler deal.

860
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 8: That's not necessarily great news for the.

861
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 14: Other shareholders in Paramount, but it would be good for

862
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 14: her and her family if that happens. You know, if

863
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 14: she re engages with one of these other bidders, Edgar

864
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 14: Bronfman with Baine Capital being one of them, their film

865
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 14: producer Stephen Paul being another, you know, then we were

866
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 14: signing up for several more weeks of negotiations and speculation

867
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 14: and stories and all of that. If she decides to

868
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 14: let the current leadership take a real run at it,

869
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 14: you know, I think we'll see a painful but necessary

870
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 14: change in terms of strategy at the company, which just

871
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 14: can't figure out streaming right now.

872
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 2: I'm going to let the audience decide which version of

873
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 2: events you're going to want to happen the most. But

874
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 2: there's certainly several Netflix documentaries and various movies to be

875
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 2: made of a saga. Luca Shaw, we appreciate him for it.

876
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 2: That does it for this edition of Really Meg Technology.

877
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: Do not forget to check out our own podcast. You

878
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 2: can find it on the terminal, Go check it out

879
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 2: in line.

880
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 3: Apple, Spotify.

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00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 2: iHeart this is pl Meg Technology.