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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is a

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Speaker 1: live from Coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New

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Speaker 1: York and Eva low In sentrancs go.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. Bloomberg reports that Intel

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Speaker 2: approached Apple about a possible investment and talks on the

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Speaker 2: two working together more closely.

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Speaker 3: We have the latest plus.

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Speaker 4: A quantum breakthrough.

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Speaker 5: HSBC said it achieved a world first and deploying the

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Speaker 5: next frontier computing in financial markets using IBM's Heron processor.

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Speaker 2: And Disney gears up for a legal fight with President

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Speaker 2: Trump over the reinstatement of Jimmy Kimmel's show.

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Speaker 5: At first, we check in on these markets, which if

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Speaker 5: you're looking at as that one hundred and we are

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Speaker 5: down for a third straight day, but only just We're

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Speaker 5: still questioning the.

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Speaker 4: Overall picture of valuations.

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Speaker 5: We're still questioning what the inflation print on front and

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Speaker 5: they will tell us, and we're still questioning more broadly

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Speaker 5: how far we've run up in terms of this seismic

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Speaker 5: moves on the S and P five frond in the

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Speaker 5: NAST one hundred is still close to record highs. I'm

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Speaker 5: looking though at crypto that's actually pulling down yet again.

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Speaker 5: We've got a key exploration of options tomorrow. We're seeing

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Speaker 5: some of those bullish bets coming out of Bitcoin and

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Speaker 5: certainly of Eve were down another three point six percent.

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Speaker 4: But what are looking at under the hood.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go to our top story.

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Speaker 2: Shares of Intel markedly higher for most of the session,

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Speaker 2: the only name on the Philadelphia Semiconductor Index in the green.

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Speaker 2: Apple also higher. Bloomberg reporting Intel has approached Apple about

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Speaker 2: the iPhone maker investing in it and held early talks

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Speaker 2: on how the US tech firms could work more closely together.

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Speaker 2: That's according to sources. Intel, which is now ten percent

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Speaker 2: owned by the US government, is looking to make a

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Speaker 2: comeback and has already secured investment from Nvidia in soft Bank.

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Speaker 3: I want to go out to.

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Speaker 2: Bloombo's Ryan Gull, who broke that story with the deal's team.

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Speaker 2: Let's get the very specific details that we had from sources.

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Speaker 3: These are early talks.

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Speaker 2: What was the structure of what they discussed and what

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Speaker 2: do we know about the status of those talks.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, these are early talks. I would say there are

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Speaker 6: still a few unknowns. There's no sense at this point

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Speaker 6: what that investment could look like. There's definitely been some

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Speaker 6: commentary this morning as people are sort of digesting this news,

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Speaker 6: and you can see Intel shares are up some twelve

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Speaker 6: percent or so over since yesterday and today as they

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Speaker 6: think about what this could mean for both companies. I

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Speaker 6: think if your Intel, you're looking at what it means

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Speaker 6: to right size a balance sheet and your foundry effort.

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Speaker 6: Could this mean Apple comes in and thinks about, you know,

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Speaker 6: sending foundry chipwards to the two Intel's foundry potentially? Could

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Speaker 6: this be something more on the product side. Could this

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Speaker 6: be packaging for of some of Apple's advanced chips. Maybe,

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Speaker 6: But these are early talks, and I think this just

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Speaker 6: goes to show that Intel is being quite proactive, especially

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Speaker 6: since the United States government took a stake of ten

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Speaker 6: percent in an unprecedented move a few weeks ago. But

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Speaker 6: I think, you know, at this point, I think people

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Speaker 6: are looking at the this is a potentially positive move

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Speaker 6: for Intel, maybe a little more of a middling slash,

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Speaker 6: you know, a known move for Apple.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's reflected in the stock move there. We've

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Speaker 5: got seventeen billion added in market oup to Intel.

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Speaker 4: Less so for.

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Speaker 5: Apple because well Apple at the moment designs its own chips,

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Speaker 5: but looks towards TSMC for that. How much do we think,

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Speaker 5: though the Apple's dialing in on the fact that they

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Speaker 5: committed to six hundred billion dollars of investment in the

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Speaker 5: United States.

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Speaker 6: Listen, I think if you're Tim Cook and you're at

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Speaker 6: the White House in front of Donald Trump a few

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Speaker 6: weeks ago, saying that you're going to invest six hundred

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Speaker 6: billion dollars over the course of a four year period.

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Speaker 6: They already announced a two point five billion dollar investment

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Speaker 6: package with Corning, which makes Apple's glass for most of

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Speaker 6: its iPhones. You know, six hundred billion dollars is a

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Speaker 6: lot of money, and you know if you think about

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Speaker 6: how that could be deployed in the United States, as

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Speaker 6: far as Apple's made in the United States pledge goes,

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Speaker 6: this is about onshoring as much as it is about

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Speaker 6: anything else. This is about satisfying the White House's plan

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Speaker 6: to have American ships made in the United State dates

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Speaker 6: and to sort of satisfy some risk as to concentration

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Speaker 6: in Taiwan, where Apple in particular manufacturers most of its chips.

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Speaker 6: A TSMC.

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Speaker 2: For what it's worth, an Intel spokesperson declined to comment

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Speaker 2: on our reporting, and Apple didn't respond to our request

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Speaker 2: for comment.

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Speaker 3: There's a history lesson that's important here.

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Speaker 2: Apple, mostly in max but also in phones until twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen had a lot of Intel silicon in it.

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Speaker 3: That relationships changed.

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Speaker 2: Explain that same with Nvidia, you know, in video and

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Speaker 2: Intel had a rivalry history history that's now changed.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that is a really important point to underscore.

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Speaker 6: About five years ago, Apple decided that it was going

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Speaker 6: to transition away from Intel, mostly because it felt that

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Speaker 6: Intel's technology, the actual its actual processes to make some

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Speaker 6: of these advanced chips wasn't satisfactory enough. So that was

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Speaker 6: kind of a painful breakup for those two companies of

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Speaker 6: relationsh ship that started as far beck as two thousand

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Speaker 6: and five, when then CEO Steve Jobs transitioned away from

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Speaker 6: power PC chips toward Intel. I mean, that was kind

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Speaker 6: of a rough breakup as far as Intel's chip making

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Speaker 6: ambitions in the United States went.

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Speaker 5: Ron Gold, it's a great scoop. We thank you for

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Speaker 5: breaking it.

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Speaker 7: Down for us.

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Speaker 4: Let's get an investor perspective here.

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Speaker 5: Joanne Poeni's portfolio manager of Advisor's Capital Management.

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Speaker 4: You've had a.

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Speaker 5: Long history of studying semiconductors as well. At what point

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Speaker 5: does Intel become interesting as an investment opportunity when the

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Speaker 5: government seems to be backing.

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Speaker 7: It so hard.

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Speaker 8: Well, clearly the government is changing the game for Intel,

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Speaker 8: but their challenges remain, and their challenges are on the

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Speaker 8: innovation side. Their design plus manufacturing has run into trouble

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Speaker 8: over the past few years, so much so that they've

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Speaker 8: lost a lot of market share to A and B,

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Speaker 8: and they failed to become a player in the AI

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Speaker 8: advanced chips. No amount of government investment is going to

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Speaker 8: make their engineer smarter or necessarily speed up innovation. Not

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Speaker 8: throwing money at innovation means they can hire better people,

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Speaker 8: so there might be some room to believe that their

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Speaker 8: piece of innovation could improve from here, but they seem

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Speaker 8: to have a long way to go. Having potential customers

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Speaker 8: on the sidelines, whether that's a Nvidia or an Apple

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Speaker 8: or others, will certainly encourage investors to take a harder look.

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Speaker 8: But right now, an awful lot of assumed outcomes are

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Speaker 8: built into the price of the stock, So it's not

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Speaker 8: something more enthusiastic about.

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Speaker 2: Joanne, You know this industry, you have deep history of

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Speaker 2: covering semiconductors. You also know the names and the players

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Speaker 2: behind the scenes. Right when this story broke. What was

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Speaker 2: your interpretation, This is Intel going out there and shopping

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Speaker 2: itself to try and save itself, or this is some

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Speaker 2: kind of savvy and smart strategic play by lit bou

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Speaker 2: tan Well.

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Speaker 8: I think Intel has for a while been trying to

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Speaker 8: find customers for its foundry plant, and we saw Pat

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Speaker 8: Gelsinger do that earlier, and he was trying to build

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Speaker 8: the fabs ahead of having customers. Libutan obviously is taking

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Speaker 8: a more cost as approach, which I think investors welcome.

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Speaker 8: The government money will help them maybe bridge the gap

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Speaker 8: between getting those fabs up and running and having customers.

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Speaker 7: I think it's smart.

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Speaker 8: They should be talking to everybody that wants to diversify

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Speaker 8: away from TSMC. For a long time, the geopolitical situation

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Speaker 8: was fairly stable. I think now there are greater risks

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Speaker 8: to that political situation and relying just on TSMC, even

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Speaker 8: if it does have some manufacturing here in the United States.

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Speaker 5: Leb Bhutan's real words were I'm not gonna build it

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Speaker 5: and then wait for them to come. They've got to come,

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Speaker 5: and then I'm going to build it, So there is,

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Speaker 5: and then the White House jumped in. It is so

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Speaker 5: much the national security focus, not only because of course

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Speaker 5: one of the key plants that Intel was originally going

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Speaker 5: to be focusing in on was in Ohio, and you

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Speaker 5: know who's really rather focused on Ohio to the VP

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Speaker 5: all of this though, do you think US can become

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Speaker 5: a domestic chip making champion without TSMC without some sum.

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Speaker 8: You know, Caroline, that's yet to be determined. Intel was

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Speaker 8: a US manufacturing champion until they sort of went off

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Speaker 8: the rails with some poor decisions on which direction to

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Speaker 8: focus for chip manufacturing recipe development. They went down one path,

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Speaker 8: TSMC went down another. TSMC was right, Intel was wrong,

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Speaker 8: and now they're trying to make up.

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Speaker 7: For that, and it's going to take time.

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Speaker 8: And I think it's appropriate for potential customers to take

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Speaker 8: a look at Intel, even if it's not this year

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Speaker 8: or next year that they can be used, but even

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Speaker 8: if it's five years from now. In chip design, you

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Speaker 8: have to work with your manufacturer because the design details

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Speaker 8: depend on the manufacturing recipe.

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Speaker 7: So they need to start.

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Speaker 8: Working together now, even if it's for manufacturing five years

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Speaker 8: from now. So there's hope for Intel, but it's a

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Speaker 8: little early, I think to be assuming that they're going

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Speaker 8: to be.

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Speaker 7: Successful in this.

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Speaker 2: Joanne, I think I want to talk a little bit

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Speaker 2: about the Apple side of this situation.

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Speaker 3: Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 2: I think Advisors Capital has like, let's say, a million

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Speaker 2: shares of Apple across its different funds, right, and the

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Speaker 2: reporting was really clear. This is Intel going to Apple,

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Speaker 2: who bought the modem business from Intel in twenty nineteen anyway,

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Speaker 2: and saying to them like you want to invest, like

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Speaker 2: help us out. But Apple does so much of its

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Speaker 2: own work in silicon Like do you see a rational

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Speaker 2: for Apple to be like, yeah, you know what, let's

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Speaker 2: do this.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, we have on Apple for a long time for

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Speaker 8: our clients across various strategies. Some conservatives are more aggressive,

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Speaker 8: but Apple is doing the smart thing here. And first

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Speaker 8: of all, we don't know if this is these talks

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Speaker 8: are actually happening.

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Speaker 7: We don't know if they're going for advance.

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Speaker 8: But you know, from Apple's perspective, it's no longer about

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Speaker 8: the design of components for its iPhones and its max

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Speaker 8: I would expect that this to be more about manufacturing.

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Speaker 8: This potentially is a move for Apple to become diversified

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Speaker 8: away from entire reliance on Taiwan semiconductor and to have

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Speaker 8: a second manufacturer.

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Speaker 7: They love to have second suppliers.

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Speaker 8: They haven't been able to because Intel has been so

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Speaker 8: far behind. If the belief now is that with government

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Speaker 8: subsidies and government investments that Intel will have the time

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Speaker 8: it takes to modify their manufacturing recipe and be able

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Speaker 8: to roll out at capacity, you know, product for Apple

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Speaker 8: n video you know who knows it?

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Speaker 7: Who else? That would be very appealing, I would think

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Speaker 7: to add Apple.

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Speaker 2: Intel was founded in the sixties, right, and we're in

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Speaker 2: a very different situation today. In nineteen ninety seven, Microsoft

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Speaker 2: bailed out Apple. Funny things happen in technology in your career,

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Speaker 2: This in video announcement with Intel, and now the reporting

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Speaker 2: on Apple, these things that you see coming.

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Speaker 8: Well, you know, we already saw that Intel had received

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Speaker 8: a massive subsidy under the previous administration's Chip Act, so

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Speaker 8: we knew Intel was getting this money.

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Speaker 7: What's different now.

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Speaker 8: Is the this administration has decided to turn the subsidy

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Speaker 8: into an ownership stake, you know, which brings some returns

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Speaker 8: back to the taxpayer. But also I think the second

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Speaker 8: shoe to draw potentially our incentive's four potential customers of

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Speaker 8: Intel to help Intel get to that point where they

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Speaker 8: have manufacturing that's competitive with Taiwan's semiconductor. That's what's really

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Speaker 8: changed today is the incentives circling around the whole industry

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Speaker 8: to try to build up that domestic manufacturing.

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Speaker 7: And that's a big change.

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Speaker 5: I have to say as an investor, you look at

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Speaker 5: what happened with Lithium America's yesterday, US reported to be

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Speaker 5: looking at a stake in that company.

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Speaker 4: The shares rocket ninety percent.

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Speaker 5: The fact that they take a ten percent stake in

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Speaker 5: Intel and suddenly the shares just go up into the right,

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Speaker 5: Does it have to become part of your fundamental research

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Speaker 5: that when the US government gets involved, it's very hard

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Speaker 5: to bet against that stock or not be involved in it.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Fortunately, calling we're able to pick and choose stocks. We own,

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Speaker 8: you know, forty to fifty equity positions in the different strategies,

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Speaker 8: so we can choose not to be involved in companies

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Speaker 8: for which you know, we think there's significant risk of

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Speaker 8: government involvement because you just don't know which way it's

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Speaker 8: going to go, and you know, some of these announcements

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Speaker 8: have been pretty unpredictable. So fortunately there are plenty of

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Speaker 8: places to invest where you don't have to be directly

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Speaker 8: exposed to government risk. You know, we've owned Broadcom for

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Speaker 8: a long time, you know, since since I joined the

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Speaker 8: firm back in twenty fifteen, and they're doing just fine

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Speaker 8: without any government involvement, and they are playing a bigger

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Speaker 8: and bigger role in.

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Speaker 7: The AI rollout.

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Speaker 5: And let's just talk therefore about the context of the

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Speaker 5: AI circularity that people have been worrying about, or just

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Speaker 5: more broadly, the valuations.

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Speaker 4: However, we are seeing bigger and bigger numbers.

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Speaker 5: Yesterday was Ali Baba saying we think it's gonna be

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Speaker 5: four trillion by twenty thirteen thirty. That goes into the

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Speaker 5: need for AI compute.

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Speaker 4: We do see a space where.

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Speaker 5: Nvidia can win, maybe even md can win. Where we

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Speaker 5: see custom asis win as well. Do you put your

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Speaker 5: bets into all of these so do you have to

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Speaker 5: focus in on the key win that thus far has

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Speaker 5: been a video?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, I think carollin the way to play

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Speaker 8: this is to recognize that this is a pie that's

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Speaker 8: growing and that there'll be more and more players that

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Speaker 8: take little slices here and there, and there may be

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Speaker 8: some market share change. Right in, Nvidia is bound to

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Speaker 8: lose some market share, not bound to grow less quickly necessarily,

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Speaker 8: but bound to lose some market share. We know A

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Speaker 8: and B has some good processors out there for AI workloads.

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Speaker 8: We know that Broadcom is co developing with the likes

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Speaker 8: of Google other ASK based processors. So I think there's

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Speaker 8: room for a lot of players to participate. I think

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Speaker 8: the wise investor will be a bit diversified. Don't just

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Speaker 8: pick one, you know, pick a handful. There are startup

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Speaker 8: companies that aren't available to us as public equity investors,

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Speaker 8: but those are worth watching because they could become competition

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Speaker 8: along the line.

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Speaker 7: That wows, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 8: I think we have some years to go while this

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Speaker 8: pie continues to expand. At least that's the information we

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Speaker 8: have now, you know. Unfortunately, we don't have great information

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Speaker 8: on how well the applications are turning out, how much

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Speaker 8: money is being made, and that ultimately could sustain data

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Speaker 8: center development in the future. But in the meantime, we

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Speaker 8: also have sovereign wealth funds investing in building out data centers.

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Speaker 7: So there's a lot for global growth here, Joanne.

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Speaker 2: There are hundreds of billions of dollars committed to build

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Speaker 2: data centers, and we know where the chips are coming from,

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Speaker 2: and we know who's going to lease the capacity, but

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Speaker 2: there are still so many missing pieces. Electricity the main one.

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Speaker 2: I just don't understand if this is like people writing

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Speaker 2: checks they can't cash, you know, in the future, because

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Speaker 2: all the other pieces won't be there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: No, that's a really good point. And you know they're

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Speaker 8: writing checks that nobody will take because there isn't the

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Speaker 8: energy potentially to power the data centers.

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Speaker 7: And that's why I like so much.

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Speaker 8: The global spread of this, of this buildout. You know, Yes,

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Speaker 8: in the US, right, we need we need to build

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Speaker 8: more facilities for powering these and we're seeing the companies

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Speaker 8: themselves get involved and that might very well be the

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Speaker 8: solution in the US, but we're going.

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Speaker 7: To get an awful lot more investment.

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Speaker 8: And that's, by the way, why the AI so called

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Speaker 8: investment team has spread beyond technology, it's into utilities, it's into.

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Speaker 7: Even pipeline companies.

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Speaker 8: Right, where is the demand spreading in addition to the

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Speaker 8: applications and the global footprint will I think be fungible

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Speaker 8: enough to allow the data centers to go where the

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Speaker 8: power and the land is available. And so that's a

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Speaker 8: way also to avoid those bottlenecks too.

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Speaker 2: And Feeniev Advisors Capital Management robust, deep conversation. We appreciate

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Speaker 2: it very much. Okay, we're going to get out. So

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Speaker 2: conversation now with former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo on

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Speaker 2: the state of New York City's mayor or race, and

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Speaker 2: he is speaking to Bloomberg's David.

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Speaker 9: Gura him up twenty five points to you. Of course,

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Speaker 9: it's a four candidate race. How do you see the

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Speaker 9: path forward here given the polling and where things stand.

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Speaker 9: I should note that the polling hasn't changed a tremendous

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Speaker 9: amount in recent weeks.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, it will change dramatically. What you see in the

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Speaker 10: polls is Mam Dami is always about forty percent.

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Speaker 11: That leaves sixty percent.

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Speaker 10: As you accurately pointed out, you have a multi candidate field,

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Speaker 10: so four people or three people who are breaking up

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Speaker 10: that sixty percent. I don't think you're going to wind

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Speaker 10: up ultimately with that larger field.

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Speaker 11: I think the field is going to collapse.

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Speaker 10: I think it's going to come down to me versus

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Speaker 10: mister Mammdanni. And as I said, Mamdanni has forty percent

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Speaker 10: his very radical ideas which are exciting to one group

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Speaker 10: of the population, especially young people, but are polarizing to

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Speaker 10: many other people. And I think it's going to come

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Speaker 10: down to a one on one and then it is

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Speaker 10: a totally different race.

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Speaker 9: Curtisly with the Republican candidate says he's not dropping out.

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Speaker 9: The incumbent mayor Eric Adam says he's not dropping out.

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Speaker 9: We've passed the ballot deadline. If we were to have

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Speaker 9: a race where it's you against or Mandani, poles still

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Speaker 9: show him leading you by a substantial amount. What do

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Speaker 9: you see in the electorate that the data aren't shown

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Speaker 9: when it comes to that particular configuration.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, well, polls are historically wrong, especially this year, especially

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Speaker 10: in New York. On your first point, you can stay

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Speaker 10: in the race. First of all, technically nobody can get

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Speaker 10: off the ballot, right. The question is are you viable

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Speaker 10: in the race, And you kind of people who are

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Speaker 10: in the race, but the voters just think they're not

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Speaker 10: really competitive, they can't win. I'm not going to waste

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Speaker 10: my vote, and I think that's what happens here. I

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Speaker 10: think it comes down to me and Mamdani. I think

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Speaker 10: when people understand what Mamdani stands for, besides what he

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Speaker 10: has said on TikTok, you know he's anti police. This

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Speaker 10: band the police legalized prostitution, didn't legalize the drug trade,

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Speaker 10: abolish jails.

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Speaker 11: You know, this would be anarchy in New York.

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Speaker 10: Socialism does not work in New York City.

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Speaker 11: It's antithetical.

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Speaker 10: We're the business capital, right, We're pro business. Business is

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Speaker 10: the engine that drives the train. So none of that

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Speaker 10: has been communicated yet, and when it does, I can

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Speaker 10: tell you the minds will change.

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Speaker 9: Is there an effort by you and your campaign to

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Speaker 9: try to convince Eric Adams or Curtiously would a drop

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Speaker 9: out of this race, or their conversations that are happening

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Speaker 9: behind the scenes to make what I imagine you see

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Speaker 9: as a compelling case for them to step aside to

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Speaker 9: make this more of a one on one race.

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Speaker 10: No, I'm sure they're making their own decisions. I've been

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Speaker 10: in elections that where I have dropped out because I

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Speaker 10: thought it was the right thing to do. They have

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Speaker 10: a decision to make. There is no apparent path to

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Speaker 10: victory for them, They in essence would act as a spoiler.

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Speaker 10: And that's a decision they have to make. They have

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Speaker 10: to make it personally, and that's their business. But again,

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Speaker 10: I think it's going to come down to a two

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Speaker 10: person rais no matter what, because that's what the polls

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Speaker 10: are going to say, and that is the choice. I

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Speaker 10: am a Democrat, my father was a Democrat. I worked

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Speaker 10: for Bill Clinton. Zoran is a socialist they call them

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Speaker 10: to democratic socialists, right, didn't support Democrats, that Barack Obama

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Speaker 10: was a liar and evil, and didn't support Kamala Harris

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Speaker 10: against Trump. Right, So this is a very different This

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Speaker 10: is apples and oranges between the two of us.

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Speaker 9: I want to ask you about some comments that Curtis

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Speaker 9: Lee we made yesterday. I'm sure you heard them. He

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Speaker 9: was campaigning and suggested that your affiliates of your campaign

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Speaker 9: had reached out to him and offered him money to

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Speaker 9: the tune of ten million dollars to drop out of

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Speaker 9: this race. And I'm going to quote from what he

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Speaker 9: said during that campaign event. He called these classic Andrew

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Speaker 9: Cuomo tactics. Why don't you strap up Cuomo to a

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Speaker 9: lie detection machine and ask him and we'll all be

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Speaker 9: blown to Kingdom.

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Speaker 11: Come because he's behind it.

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Speaker 9: I don't have a polygraphic machine with me here, But

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Speaker 9: how do you respond to what he's alleging in those comments?

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Speaker 10: Look, you can't. You have to take sliver with a

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Speaker 10: grain of salt. Right. He is a known con man.

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Speaker 10: He's lied about being victims of crime before.

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Speaker 11: But it's very simple, David.

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Speaker 10: When he said that someone should have said who who

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Speaker 10: or offered you the money? Let him answer the question

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Speaker 10: because it would happen to be a crime, right, who

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Speaker 10: or offered you money? He never said who, which sort

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Speaker 10: of tells you right that it's all malarkey.

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Speaker 11: There was no person who did it. I want to

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Speaker 11: ask you.

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Speaker 9: Last we've talked about the state of the race, where

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Speaker 9: you hope that it's headed, and if we can, I'd

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Speaker 9: like to look back to nineteen seventy seven. So ways

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Speaker 9: you were nineteen, You were a student at Fordham University.

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Speaker 9: Your dad was making a run for mayor and you

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Speaker 9: were helping out on the campaign. He didn't win the

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Speaker 9: Democratic primary and decided to run on an independent line

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Speaker 9: for mayor. He ended up losing that race by nine points.

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Speaker 9: They say that history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes,

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Speaker 9: and I know that you don't want history to repeat

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Speaker 9: itself here. You'd like to win this race in the

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Speaker 9: way that he wasn't able to back then fifty years ago.

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Speaker 9: I'm not the first to point out this historical parallel,

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Speaker 9: but I imagine you've thought about it, and I wonder how

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Speaker 9: that experience has informed your outlook on this race. There

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Speaker 9: was introspection after the primaries. You didn't do as well

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Speaker 9: as you wanted to do. You decided to make this run.

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Speaker 9: What can you learn about that race that your dad

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Speaker 9: waged and how does that inform the way that you're

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Speaker 9: running this.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, my father was an extraordinary individual on many levels,

443
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:03,439
Speaker 10: highly principled, frankly a typical for a politician, and he

444
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 10: did quote unquote the right thing, whatever he thought the

445
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 10: right thing was for me. I believe in the Democratic Party.

446
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 10: I believe in what my father stood for, what John F.

447
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 10: Kennedy stood for, and Robert F. Kennedy stood for, and

448
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 10: Bill Clinton and what Mandami represents. And this Democratic Socialists

449
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 10: of America DSA socialists call them whatever you want, is

450
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 10: repugnant to the Democratic Party, I know, And that's what's

451
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,120
Speaker 10: really going on here. This is a civil war within

452
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 10: the Democratic Party right where the extreme left is pulling

453
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 10: the Democratic Party and the moderates are afraid of the

454
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 10: extreme left.

455
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 11: It's the inverse of.

456
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 10: The Republican Party when they had the Tea Party and

457
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 10: the Tea Party was pulling the Republican moderates too far

458
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 10: to the right because they were afraid of them in

459
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 10: a primary. That's what's happening here. It's a battle for

460
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 10: the soul of the Democratic Party.

461
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 11: And the Democratic.

462
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 10: Party is not anti business, it's not anti police.

463
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 11: That's not who we are.

464
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 10: We're not about redistributing income as a policy. Right, you

465
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 10: tax to provide a service. You don't tax to take

466
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 10: money from the rich to give it to the poor.

467
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 12: Right.

468
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 11: That's why Donald Trump cos him a communist.

469
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 10: So this is not the Democratic Party that I believe

470
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 10: I represent and traditionally has served this nation well. He

471
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 10: is zero experience in the position, never managed anything five employees,

472
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 10: never had a real job. And when you when you're

473
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 10: willing to consider chief executive New York City, no management experience,

474
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 10: run five people. Now, who's going to run three hundred

475
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 10: thousand employees one hundred and fifteen billion dollar budget.

476
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 11: You wake up any morning.

477
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 10: You could have a terrorist attack, you could have another COVID.

478
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 10: It just the means government and the means public service

479
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 10: in a way that I just find important, and I'm

480
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 10: going to do everything I can to stop it.

481
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 12: Got a quota.

482
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 11: Thank you very much, appreciate it. Thank you. I'll send

483
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 11: it back to you.

484
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 5: Oh thanks to Bloomberg's David Gera. There and a reminder

485
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 5: that Michael Bloomberg, the founder and majority owner of Bloomberg

486
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,679
Speaker 5: News parent Bloombag LP, has endorsed Cuomo in the primary

487
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 5: and contributed to his pack ed.

488
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: Okay, we have some breaking news crossing the Bloomberg Amazon

489
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 2: has agreed to pay two point five billion dollars in

490
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 2: penalties and refunds and to change its pro sess for

491
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: how you cancel Prime subscription subscriptions. This is in the

492
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 2: FTC case against it, So the split is that the

493
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 2: company will pay one billion dollar in civil penalties and

494
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: refund one point five billion dollars to customers. The accusation

495
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 2: that the FTC had made was that Amazon was misleading

496
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: millions of customers into signing up for Prime, but then

497
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: making it intentionally difficult to cancel. They will now change

498
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: that process overall. When the news broke, there was a

499
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: brief spike into positive territory, but was still down two

500
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 2: tens of one percent. The extraordinary thing, Carrow is, remember

501
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 2: that the trial in this case with jury selection was

502
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: only three days ago, and they've reached a settlement two

503
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 2: point five billion dollars in just three days.

504
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 3: Let's get to another story out.

505
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 2: Of the UK AI data center to developer n Scale has

506
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: just raised one point one billion dollars just one week

507
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: after announcing its partnership with Nvidia and open Ai in

508
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: the UK.

509
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 3: Let's get more from Bloomberg's Mark Bergen.

510
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 2: A lot of focus at the moment on the Neo cloud,

511
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: and n Scale kind of fits into that. What are

512
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: the details from this story?

513
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 13: We know a lot more than what you said. This

514
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 13: is one point one billion. They've described it as one

515
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 13: of the largest. Actually they said it's the largest Series

516
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 13: B round in Europe. You know, it's really fascinating to

517
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 13: see the scale though we have some in our story

518
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 13: in the Bloomberg today, but this might be just the

519
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 13: amount of money they need to purchase just one of

520
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 13: their data centers they have had planned to build in

521
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 13: the UK, and I think you know, they are claiming

522
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 13: to go out and purchase deploy three hundred thousand in

523
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 13: Nvidia GPUs, so they're going to need a lot more money.

524
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 13: We're not sure if this is just equity or equity

525
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 13: in debt, but they're likely to be raising probably both

526
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 13: of more and very soon.

527
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 5: And your investigations before showing the n scale very briefly,

528
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 5: Mark has never built a data center before.

529
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, what do you need experience?

530
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 13: To be fair that they spun out of a crypto

531
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 13: mining operation similar to what Core Reeve did. They have

532
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 13: hired senior executives that have a lot of experience, but

533
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 13: the company itself hasn't.

534
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 5: Bloomberg's Matt bag and short and sweet and we so

535
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 5: appreciate it, Thank you very much. Coming up, the wave

536
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 5: of AI data center announcements keeps on going. We talk

537
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 5: to Berkley's next. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. I quick

538
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 5: check are some key names that move this market today. Look,

539
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 5: we are just questioning some of the valuations within the

540
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 5: S and P five hundred, within the NASTAG. We're on

541
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 5: paus ahead of those big inflation numbers tomorrow. But I

542
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 5: dig into individual names that continue to push higher core

543
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 5: we've turned around or it was training lower and then

544
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 5: it goes into the grain by one point five percent.

545
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 5: Why they've got yet further commitments coming from open Ai

546
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 5: to continue to build out their data center needs. They'relping

547
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 5: it by another six and a half billion dollars to

548
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 5: more than twenty two billion in commitments. That's important because

549
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 5: we'd worried about perhaps the focus on Microsoft.

550
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 4: As a key client for coreweave.

551
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 5: Now the neocloud really pushing in to other areas of growth.

552
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 5: We're also looking at in video up seven tens and percent.

553
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 5: This is we just digest there's a phenomenal scale of

554
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 5: investment coming from this company, whether it's backing Intel last

555
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 5: week to five billion, whether it's one hundred billion dollars

556
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 5: in terms of equity going into open Ai. No matter what,

557
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 5: when they commit to increase their AI spend, the market

558
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 5: rewards them. Ed and interesting notes coming out in this

559
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 5: company today as well.

560
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in Vidia's worth lingering on. Barkley is

561
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 2: out with a new note raising its price target from

562
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 2: two hundred dollars to two hundred and forty dollars, maintaining

563
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: an overweight status on the stock Barklay's research analyst Tomamalley

564
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: joins us, the author of that note, you are in

565
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: the camp of people that listen to Gentsen one when

566
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: he said this is going to be a one trillion

567
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 2: dollar opportunity or industry, and then very recently said actually

568
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 2: it's going to be a three or four trillion dollar opportunity.

569
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: And now you, like many, say it's a bit more

570
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: believable to us.

571
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 3: Just explain your thesis.

572
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 12: Perfect and thanks for having me on the show.

573
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 14: I think in a prior segment you had Joanna on

574
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 14: talking about how the pie keeps on growing. If you

575
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 14: look at compute announcements since December of twenty twenty four

576
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 14: through date, we're looking at over two trillion of announced

577
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 14: dollars of compute in over forty gigwatts. If you look

578
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 14: at what Jensen said historically, about sixty five to seventy

579
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 14: percent of.

580
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 12: That is related to compute.

581
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 14: So if you look at what it could mean for

582
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 14: in Vidia, it's about one point five trillion dollars really

583
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 14: coming into the pipeline over a very recent period of time.

584
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: Tom, you saw the announcement between open AI and Video

585
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: right from the end of from earlier this week. Yes, okay,

586
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: so on the internet, the analogy or metaphor that people

587
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 2: are using with that, it's like an extension cable that

588
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: in Vidia is the extension cable. They're unplugging from the

589
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: wall and just plugging back into the cable. Do you

590
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: see what I'm asking about? In Vidia puts one hundred

591
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 2: billion into open ai in order for open ai to

592
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 2: take one hundred billion dollars worth of Nvidia gear.

593
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 3: Absolutely, how do we interpret that?

594
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 14: I mean, there's two big concerns with the deployments of

595
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 14: AI right now. It's one power and then to the

596
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 14: circular reference issue that you see brought up again and again,

597
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 14: I would say you can flip this argument on its head. Obviously,

598
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 14: it's early days here and there is reason to be

599
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 14: careful about circular issues in terms of investment. But I

600
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 14: would ask where should Nvidia investor money. I think buying

601
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 14: backstock now would be one option. But Jensen's in founder

602
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 14: mode here. He's looking to create an ecosystem where you're

603
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 14: having more and more players actually drive AI further on.

604
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 12: And I guess the other point would be, this is

605
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 12: not just Jensen.

606
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 14: You're seeing investments from AMD and Broadcom, and this is

607
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 14: going to be something that's driven forward by a group

608
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 14: of companies, but clearly a concern that many investors bring

609
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 14: to light. But I do think that there in Video

610
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,719
Speaker 14: is in a unique position where they're taking the capital

611
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 14: that they've made and they're reinvesting it in their space.

612
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 12: So can look at that argument both ways.

613
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 5: I look, they've just deployed in Europe with n scale,

614
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 5: They've been deployed in neo clouds and care Wey for example.

615
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 4: Tom.

616
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 5: What's so interesting is where the house of cards could fall,

617
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 5: what would limit this up and to the right perspective

618
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 5: about AI compute needs and that feeding into in Vidia

619
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 5: and in all of the semiconductors that currently have a

620
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 5: stake in providing AI accelerators.

621
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 14: As you mentioned earlier in the show, it's the return

622
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 14: on investment first and foremost, and I think that what

623
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 14: we do in the note that we had out today

624
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 14: is try to show what the investment from a chip

625
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 14: perspective is looking like versus what the ROI is and

626
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 14: we do that by looking at hyperscaler RPO. So you

627
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 14: look at AWS, Azure, GPC, Oracle and over the past

628
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 14: several years that's been growing out a thirty percent take

629
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 14: or so essentially hyperscaler backlog that's exploded to over eighty percent,

630
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 14: and if you look right now, the backlogs at over

631
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 14: one point one trillion dollars. So what you're seeing first

632
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 14: and foremost is that you're getting some ROI, you're getting

633
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 14: some business that's stepping up. That's an area of the

634
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 14: world that we can do a little more work.

635
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 12: On.

636
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 14: The other side, which is less in the semiconductor ecosystem

637
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 14: is the power side, where if you look at what

638
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 14: forty gigawatts means, you're talking multi major cities in terms

639
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 14: of the deployment. So that's really where the investment needs

640
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 14: to focus on from this point forward, because if you

641
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 14: don't have a utility bill for someone living in city

642
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 14: and that's being sucked to another data center, that's a

643
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 14: serious problem.

644
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,239
Speaker 5: Tom It's interesting that I think Ali Baba chimed in

645
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 5: the CEO saying four trillion is his number two by

646
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 5: twenty thirty. But I cast my mind back to March

647
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 5: when there was a wabble in the market, when we

648
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 5: did start to question some of the valuations. That was

649
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 5: because the chairman of Ali Baba had said there was

650
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 5: a bubble in terms of AI infrastructure investment, particularly in

651
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 5: the US. So how much of this what alarm bell

652
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 5: rings for you when we start to get into a

653
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 5: valuation that screams bubble because you see in video can

654
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 5: go up another thirty.

655
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 4: Percent or so.

656
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think there's two things to look at.

657
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,239
Speaker 14: The first sort of reset in evaluations this year came

658
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 14: around deep Seek and that was a change in where

659
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 14: we saw the AI revenue coming from. We've transitioned to

660
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 14: what was scaling laws in training, so all these guys

661
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 14: making money on training, and now we're moving more today

662
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 14: era of inference, which is people actually using these models,

663
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 14: seeing agents out there actually serving individuals, and so you've

664
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 14: seen a shift in where compute spend has actually gone.

665
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 14: So the ROI is helpful and it makes me feel

666
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 14: a bit better as we go along here, and we'll

667
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 14: continue to look at open AI and thropic and you'll

668
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 14: see more fundamentals come out as time goes along. But

669
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 14: the concern is always these are very large numbers. Where

670
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 14: did these dollars come from? First step is look at hyperscalers.

671
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 14: If you look at today the cap X as a

672
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 14: percent of OP income, it's still around fifty percent. I

673
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 14: wouldn't start to get worded until you're above one hundred

674
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 14: percent and getting to a position where you're obviously taking

675
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 14: on debt to do this. And then secondly, I would

676
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 14: look at the sovereigns where globally you're starting to see

677
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 14: countries invest in this, and that's additional dollars that is

678
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 14: outside of that original pie. And that was always the

679
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 14: proxy for when are we run out here? When do

680
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 14: we get to the limit of hyperscaler capex.

681
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: Tom You did not reference Intel in the note you

682
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 2: published overnight, but you do cover Intel. I just wanted

683
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: to ask for your reaction to the Nvidia equity investment

684
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 2: in Intel, but actually for me more the partnership on

685
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: X eighty six and also in the piece domain, like

686
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: how do you interpret that?

687
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 3: Please?

688
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 14: Yeah, I think just first and foremost, from a very

689
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 14: thirty thousand foot view, it's good that Intel is getting

690
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 14: dollars to bridge the gap here.

691
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 12: There's obviously been some capital.

692
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 14: Concerns when it comes to how it moves the technology

693
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 14: profile forward. We've seen a government investment, we've seen some

694
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 14: other investors Brookfield and Apollo over the past several years,

695
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 14: and you haven't seen a big change in the technology profile.

696
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 14: What I would argue is that this is very favorable

697
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 14: for in video. You potentially have Intel focusing an AI

698
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 14: product for x eighty six CPUs in the data center

699
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 14: that will help with the thirty six and seventy two

700
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 14: systems that Nvidia has out there today. On the PC side,

701
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 14: gaming PCs already have a discre GPU and video is

702
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 14: already there. Maybe you could see some collaboration that helps

703
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 14: drive forward Intel's push on the AIPC side, but largely

704
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 14: this seems like a more favorable agreement for Nvidia, and

705
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 14: funny how times change within video stepping in to rescue

706
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 14: Intel here.

707
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: Okay, Tom, let's end here. So there's consensus that in

708
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 2: AI and dat cent at least this will be a

709
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 2: four trillion dollar industry over varying timeframes or addressable opportunity.

710
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 2: Have you and your colleagues and peers calculated how much

711
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: of that you expect in video to take and have

712
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,439
Speaker 2: you factored in competition from AMD, GROCK in other CUSTOMASIC

713
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 2: solutions that are coming out.

714
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 14: Yeah, so I don't think we've done a full analysis.

715
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 14: When we get to that Fortrillian boy, that would be

716
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 14: great if we do, but I would say that right now,

717
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 14: general purpose silicon still represents greater than ninety percent of

718
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 14: the market, and that's.

719
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 12: In video and AMD.

720
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 14: Broadcom with their announcement, particularly with open AI, is starting

721
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 14: to take more share if you look at the longer

722
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 14: term horizon, I still think general purpose silicon makes up

723
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 14: a majority of the market, say sixty forty, but you

724
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 14: do see from where we are today, general purpose silicon

725
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 14: is a much larger piece of the pie. So again,

726
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 14: as Joanne was saying before, it's smart to be invested

727
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 14: across these names. If you look at Broadcom, they're just

728
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 14: growing at a much faster rate than where they are today,

729
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 14: which makes that story very interesting as well. So I

730
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 14: guess in summary, just four dollars to Vidia over the

731
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 14: long term as I look at the market, but a

732
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 14: faster growth rate from the customs silking guys.

733
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: Tom O Marley from Barge's I think the first time

734
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg Tech and we've really enjoyed it.

735
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, carry what you got.

736
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 4: And it is time now for talking tech.

737
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 5: And first up, Elon Musk's XAI and the US government

738
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 5: assign a deal that allows federal agencies to use rock

739
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 5: Ai chatbot now. The dealer is part of a push

740
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 5: to speed up adoption of new technologies like oftificial intelligence,

741
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 5: and in just forty two cents per agency, it's the

742
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 5: cheapest contract yet and the government's new initiative. Plus, the

743
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 5: Trump administration has launched investigations into imports of robotics, industrial.

744
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 4: Machinery, and medical devices.

745
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,760
Speaker 5: The probes set the stage for tariffs, which the President

746
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 5: is allowed to place on good steamed critical to national security,

747
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 5: and Apple.

748
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 4: Is calling on the EU to scrap the Digital Markets

749
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 4: Act Now.

750
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 15: The US tech giant argues that the consumer protection law

751
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 15: worsens user experience, increases privacy risks, and threatens to undermine innovation,

752
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 15: though the company says it is complyingying with the law

753
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 15: while it's in the place.

754
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 3: Ed okay coming up.

755
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 2: Alexa Moon Tobo of Inspired Capital joins us she'll explain why.

756
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: She says physical ai is reaching an inflection point and

757
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: the impact of quantum on financial services, which today is

758
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 2: a top story.

759
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 3: This has been big tech.

760
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 5: HSBC has achieved a breakthrough in deploying quantum computing in

761
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 5: financial markets now. Using IBM's Hero and Quantum processor, the

762
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 5: bank was able to improve bond price predictions. Let's talk

763
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 5: about the opportunity to invest in this next frontier of computing.

764
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 5: And Alexa Montovo, founder and managing partner of Inspired Capital,

765
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 5: previously the founder of fintech style up learn Vest. She's

766
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 5: sold to Northwestern Mutual back in twenty fifteen. And what

767
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 5: interests me so much is within your podcast, you've just

768
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 5: been speaking to a founder, you've backed logical all about

769
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 5: the future of quantum.

770
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 4: Ye've been deep diving on this.

771
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 5: So when you see these sorts of iterations and breakthroughs,

772
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 5: what do you make of it? Where is the opportunity

773
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 5: for you in the seed in the series?

774
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 16: A first of all, great question. As you know, I

775
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 16: am a long term early stage investor and I like

776
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 16: to look for companies that could be worth ten twenty

777
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 16: thirty billion dollars. There's very few of those in the world,

778
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 16: and I think that led me to quantum now almost

779
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 16: a year and a half ago, thinking it's sort of

780
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 16: the next wave of innovation after AI, and the potential

781
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 16: is profound once and if we build these quantum computers

782
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 16: and mind you, it's a category where the people have

783
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 16: been toiling away for thirty years without much success. But

784
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 16: the best experts in the world believe that in the

785
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 16: next decade we will begin to see real advancements towards

786
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 16: building the first scaled quantum computer, and what comes out

787
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 16: of that is huge advancements in financial services and pharmaceuticals

788
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 16: and all these other categories that are going to change

789
00:38:58,080 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 16: the world in a profound way.

790
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 5: You think about IBM's role here, and they've come on

791
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 5: the show and said, by twenty twenty nine, are quantum

792
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 5: computer is going to be in there in the world

793
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 5: and achieving real things. Then from the early stage founder,

794
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 5: how are you seeking them out?

795
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 4: Where can they add to the quantum process?

796
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 7: Sure?

797
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 4: So, I think the big goal.

798
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 16: Right now is people are trying to get to ten

799
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 16: thousand cubets so many different hardware types six or seven

800
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 16: based on how you've cut it, and I think your

801
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 16: most important researchers and PhDs in the world are trying

802
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 16: to get to ten thousand, one hundred thousand skilled cubets.

803
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 16: That is the march that everyone is working towards, and

804
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 16: we're rooting for them.

805
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 2: Alex I'm really interested in like the business model, which

806
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: I know is a bit of a dry way of

807
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 2: looking at it, but when we think about compute for

808
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: data centers in the AI context, people lease that capacity, right.

809
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 2: I think about the work that Google is doing in quantum.

810
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: It uses it's quantum machines in house for research. So

811
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: with what HSBC did with IBM, and when you're looking

812
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 2: to invest in the early stages of this field, how

813
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 2: do quantum computing companies give their services to a financial

814
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 2: institution like an HSBC.

815
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: What's the model for that?

816
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 16: That's a great question. So I think we're going to

817
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 16: see a few things. First of all, right now people

818
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 16: will rent out their quantum computers. You're seeing prices from

819
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 16: ten thousand to in different cases fifty thousand dollars per

820
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 16: per hour, et cetera. So people will rent them out.

821
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 16: I actually think it could be a profound business model shift,

822
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 16: which is whatever is created with that quantum computer, whatever IP,

823
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 16: whatever technology that comes out of using those advancements in compute,

824
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 16: that you could take a revenue stream forever. So that

825
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 16: is sort of an interesting shift. Somebody once said to

826
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 16: me that whoever builds the first quantum computer almost overnight

827
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 16: could become Pfizer because the compute of what's possible for

828
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 16: pharmaceuticals could be that profound, So it gives you a

829
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 16: sense of the shift, which is you could potentially take

830
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 16: a stream of the IP that comes out of quantum

831
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 16: computers as a new business model.

832
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 2: Entirely Alexi, you are one of many I would say

833
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 2: that is arguing that physical AI is having a chatch

834
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 2: GPT moment. Physical AI is now a pretty broad category.

835
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 2: So which vertical within that would you say that is

836
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: most true?

837
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 16: Of great question? So what I get excited about as

838
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 16: everyone was running at digital AI, as you've seen the

839
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 16: dollars pour into the category and inspired our venture fund.

840
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 16: Early stage venture fund is very thesis driven. So for us,

841
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 16: what physical AI means is taking big foundational models that

842
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 16: now exist credibly that can interact with things like sensors

843
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 16: and robotics and create smart devices everywhere in our physical world.

844
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 16: If you think about just our infrastructure.

845
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,919
Speaker 4: We all live because.

846
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 16: Of our infrastructure, our water, our pipeline, our electricity, our roads,

847
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 16: and we're getting to the point where we can no

848
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 16: longer be reactive, which is what we are. Almost like

849
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 16: the Roman times, something breaks, you go and fix it

850
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 16: to becoming predictive about our ecosystem around us, our world

851
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 16: and infrastructure around us. And that is what we mean

852
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 16: by physical AI it inspired. We're really looking for the

853
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 16: intersection of observability and predictability in the environment around us.

854
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 5: And looking at your poor photio companies, you've already made

855
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 5: some key bets. Yes, we're thinking about bright Ai TC Labs.

856
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 5: What is it that these companies that we see on

857
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 5: our screen now have offered you from the seed in

858
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 5: series a area that you feel hasn't been adopted already by

859
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 5: big industry, by big companies already listed.

860
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 16: Sure, I'll start with bright Ai. Bright Ai. Alex the

861
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 16: CEO is an absolute technical genius, the godfather of IoT,

862
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 16: and he invented a sticker. There's now two hundred and

863
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 16: fifty thousand already deployed of these stickers, and they can

864
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 16: go on anything from a utility pole to a water pipeline.

865
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 16: And here's what it does. It then sends an observability

866
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 16: layer back to whichever company has bought these stickers and

867
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,959
Speaker 16: can say, now, proactively, the utility pole is twenty five

868
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 16: degrees slanted, let's go fix it before it falls on

869
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 16: an electrical wire and takes power grids out. Literally, men

870
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 16: and women walk up and down utility poles, right now

871
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 16: and observe them physically and then fix things versus being

872
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 16: predictive and fixing it. In the water world, will literally

873
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 16: find inside pipelines the leaks and right now today we

874
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 16: lose six billion gallons of treated water, which is fifteen

875
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 16: million homes of water. Think about that every single day

876
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 16: because of leaks and verse and bright AI is the

877
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 16: sensors that we'll get ahead of that. SE's BRIGHTAI. A

878
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 16: company we're really rooting for. Another company, as we said,

879
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 16: was TC Labs, which is an incredible team out of Google.

880
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 16: They're trying to save one gigaton of carbon each year

881
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 16: and what they do is go take the energy we

882
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 16: already have. So think about this. Because of AI, we

883
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 16: need wild amounts of energy. There's not enough energy is

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00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 16: the headline, and so they are going to the infrastructure

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00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 16: we already have oil refineries and not only helping make

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00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 16: them be more EFFICI using AI so that they can

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00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 16: produce more energy, but also more carbon friendly. So that's

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Speaker 16: TC Labs. And then finally True Swift is the data

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00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 16: set of sensors for our forest. The forest are the

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Speaker 16: lungs of the planet, and they are measuring them so

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00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 16: that we can get ahead of forest fires in major

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Speaker 16: storms that then take power out. So as you see

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Speaker 16: your very forwarde banking and physical AI.

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Speaker 2: Alexavon Tobo, co founder managing partner of Inspired Capital, thank

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Speaker 2: you very much. South Korea says investment projects in the

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Speaker 2: US will remain in limbo until visa issues are resolved.

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Speaker 2: In the wake of the Trump administration's immigration raid at

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Speaker 2: a Hyundai LG Energy battery plant in Georgia, South Korean

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister Kim Minsouk sat down with Bloomberg's scherry On

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Speaker 2: in Seoul for an exclusive interview.

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Speaker 17: Realistically, without a solution, it's difficult to invest in the

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00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 17: United States and carry out the various joint projects currently

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00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 17: planned between South Korea and the US. We absolutely must

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Speaker 17: find a solution. Several projects are underway between South Korea

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Speaker 17: and the US. Without resolving the visa issue, meaningful progress

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00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 17: remains virtually impossible.

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Speaker 5: Coming up, Disney ready for a legal battle with President

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Speaker 5: Trump over Jimmy Kimmel's late night return.

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Speaker 4: We're on that. Next. This is Broomback Tech