WEBVTT - Ep. 699: The American West with Dan Flores 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:13.280 If this is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.319 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast, you 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:19.320 can't predict anything. 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:22.800 The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light. 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.040 Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.520 for ELK. First Light has performance apparel to support every 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.400 hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.640 dot com, f I R S T L I T 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:42.839 E dot com. Before we start today's show, we'd like 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:47.160 to touch on, uh, doctor Randall's hair a little bit. Yes, 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:49.600 you got screwed at the barber. 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:52.680 I don't want to say screwed, but there's a miscommunication. 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:59.760 I was going for a more minimalist touch up and 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:00.680 we ended up. 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:03.080 You wanted to keep your length in the back. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:04.800 Yeah, I wanted to keep my length in the back, 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:05.600 and I was. 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:06.000 I was. 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:07.640 I'd sort of made peace with it. 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:09.800 And then Seth showed me the other day a photo 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:11.800 from when we were out doing the SIG shoot and 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:13.240 I saw that. 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:15.680 Flow and I just just blown in the wind. 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:19.399 Yeah, I missed it so badly. 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:21.160 The reason I winded you talk about that is Corey 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:23.760 just had interesting observation that there's a river you like 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.680 to fish, and you say that the river never fishes 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:28.600 good two days in a row. Yeah, So if you 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.800 have a great day, you know not to go back. 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:33.919 Yeah, you better pick another stream for sure. 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:35.160 Because it can't fish two days in a row. 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:35.440 Yeah. 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.080 And he's proposing that if you get a great haircut somewhere, 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.800 don't go back because it's gonna not be good. Yeah, 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.160 because one of the odds, lightning's not gonna strike twice, 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.560 never in the same spot. Hell about fishing, it goes 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:52.000 in weeks, week on, week off. So if you're like, 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.040 if people are up fishing at our fish shack and 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.160 you call up, the last thing you want to hear 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:59.040 because if you're going up, like let's say they're up 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.600 there last week of July, you're going first week August. 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:09.200 What you want? You think you want hot reports, You 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.440 don't want horrible report. 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.160 You make that phone call wanting some bitching and moaning. 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:17.040 Yeah, because they're like, oh my god, it's on fire. 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.640 You're like, I'm not even gonna go now. Yeah, because 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:22.919 this is gonna be the it'll die, it'll be the dead. 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.240 I'll be there for the dead week. You want it 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:28.040 to be that no one's catching nothing, then you're gonna 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:29.760 go up and have a phenomenal time. Yeah. 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:31.640 No, that's the same with this little riffle that I'm 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.519 speaking of. Just easty here. M. 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.200 You just winked at me. Does that mean it's not 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:47.600 easty here? No? Uh. Joined today by the esteemed professor, 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.800 former professor of American history, current author of all kinds 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.679 of books, New York Times best selling author Dan Floores. 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:56.959 It's been on the show a handful of times in 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.840 the past. I'll just come flat out and say, he's 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:03.799 my most He's my favorite historian, one of America's most 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:09.960 celebrated historians. Uh. Eleven books if you listen to a 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.359 Rogan's podcast. Dan's been on Rogan's podcast a couple of 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.600 times talking about his book as well. Started his career 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:21.600 as not started you were a writer but also a teacher. Yeah. 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:26.480 I basically started as a freelance magazine writer before I 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:28.480 went off. And you know, I did the strange thing 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:34.920 of getting a PhD. Relate yeah, and becoming Yeah, you 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:36.760 guys can relate Randall can relate that know. 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:38.880 Uh. 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:43.480 Not only that, but I took when I was in 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:47.960 graduate school, I took a class with Professor Floories, and 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:52.000 Randall took presumably many classes, a handful of a handful 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:58.000 of classes. And now Dan is doing a were Dan 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.080 is doing a podcast our podcast network called The American 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.400 West with Dan floy'es. We're going to talk about some 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.200 of the themes that will emerge in that podcast. As 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:13.240 he tells a I would say an unconventional telling of 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:21.359 the American West. Don't get into enormous detail. But how 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.760 would you describe your approach because you were an environmental historian? 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:30.040 Yeah, that's right. I trained to be an environmental historian. 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:31.880 And for people who don't know what that is, it's 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:37.840 basically somebody who studies and writes about and taught classes 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:42.160 too about the relationship between people and nature. So that's 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.600 a pretty big topic. You know, allows for a lot 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:48.719 of things, and what it doesn't do much because I 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.440 also taught the American West, it doesn't do much of 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:53.839 the standard American West stuff, you know. I mean I 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:58.680 never did really talk much about mining strikes and the 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:05.360 overall and trail migrations and Indian wars and gunfights and 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.960 all that. I was interested in in stuff that pertained 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.919 to the kind of environmental relationship between people and the 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.359 natural world in the West and in the country. And 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.560 so that's that's really what this podcast boils down to. 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.400 Yeah, fewer okay corrals and more more wildlife. 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.400 Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah, yeah, it's. 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:32.240 Being a wildlife. Uh pigeon catching controversy in New York 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.719 And this makes sense to me. The price, Like my 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.440 boy sells pigeons to dog trainers. 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.080 Oh now he's now he's onto selling them. 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.520 Oh he's made he makes good money selling pigeons. 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:45.800 Oh yeah, No, I didn't know that. 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.040 I thought, well, this year he just did a if 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.320 you go from seven dollars to eight dollars, what percent 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:51.040 increases that. 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:53.120 That's a tough one to figure out. 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.000 One I told him, say tariffs did it? 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:59.560 And wait, how twelve? How much does he is that? 0:05:59.600 --> 0:05:59.920 How much? 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:00.680 Your head? 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.400 Dan, I think that's right. 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.599 Wait does he is that? How much he sells them for? 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:11.159 He just he just he just uh he had a 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:15.440 new client mm hmm. And and he was saying what 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:19.840 because last year he was getting seven a piece and 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:21.640 he had a new client. He just threw out eight 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.280 and out of blank, take as many as I can get. 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:30.640 So point being, it doesn't surprise me. Now what what? 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:35.599 So he gets pigeons out of grain silos because guys 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:37.680 are storing grain. Last thing, you want his pigeons in 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:39.919 the grain. You know, you don't want I'm shitting in 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.880 the grain. So he gets them out of grain silos 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:46.320 and whatnot, out of barns and people use them for 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:47.000 dog training. 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:47.800 Oh I didn't. 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.840 I thought he got paid to capture them. I didn't 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:51.719 realize that he was turning them around. 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:56.120 He would pay to get him. Okay, but I'm saying, 0:06:56.240 --> 0:07:00.480 picture now that a pigeons worth that amount of money. Okay. 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.000 Some guy has thought to himself apparently, well, not where 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.720 are there a lot of pigeons? And he has noted 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.320 that in Brooklyn there's a lot of pigeons, and some 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:14.000 guys are taking some industrial pigeon catching strategies to these 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.280 parks in Brooklyn, which is really causing a lot of 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:23.960 distress for logo pigeon lovers. It's a little bit weird 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:25.880 because I think that I don't know if New York does. 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:28.520 But there's a thing called a vatroll. There's a there's 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:34.960 a poison that municipalities will use on pigeons. It's kind 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.600 of like an un you know. So I think that 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:39.720 for them to see a guy jump out and net 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.720 a bunch, it's probably like doubt be disturbing by I mean, 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:45.600 if you looked at the darker side, there's like a 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:49.160 darker side the pigeon removal that they're probably not aware 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:54.400 of pigeons being a non native bird. But pitches have 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.160 been there. I mean the French delivered introduced pigeons along 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.280 the Saint Lawrence, I think the late fifteen hundred. I 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.240 mean there's been pigeons on the ground. Street pigeons. It's 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.680 Lenaian name. If you see a pigeon flying around town, 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.480 it's Lenaian name. Is Columba, Olivia, I believe is what 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:13.520 it is. And people are worked up because guys are 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.760 catching these things and they're probably like the guests are 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.200 selling them into the pigeon market. Some guy cleared one 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:21.880 hundred and fifty out of a park. 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.640 Bushwick. I thought this was going the direction of roller pigeons, 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:30.360 which is why I paid attention. Jordan Siller sent me this. 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.840 This is a dude selling. This is a dude selling 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:37.240 pigeons for some purpose. I used to on occasion when 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.200 I lived in Brooklyn and I would go down and 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.079 I would just nab them and put them in my pockets. 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.439 And I'm not kidding you. We would grab them and 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:49.440 we would make patas with them, me and my chef 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:51.560 buddy and I just put them right in my pockets. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:55.280 We got all kinds of videos of it. 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.439 Oh my gosh, we need to put this together. This 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:03.760 is a new episode. Well, what what's the hand grabbing pigeons? 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:06.400 You just put a little bit of and you just 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.680 put them and I'd always want to leave the scene 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.480 with them alive. So we just put them in our 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.040 pockets and make little pat tays with them. Your pockets 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.760 all bounce garment is best for any kind of coat, 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.040 like a down puffy type, and put them in your pockets. 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:22.080 But uh, kangaroo. 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.640 Yeah, the thing that came mind, they came on here 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:29.640 if any person, like if you went to any I 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.000 shouldn't say any If you went to most wildlife managers 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.559 and you ask them if you could wave a magic 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.440 wand and it would make street pigeons disappear, they would 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:42.760 wave the wand. You know, but then you get into 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:44.760 like different things like I used to go to even 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:49.320 farmers and ranchers that like would hate wild pigs. But 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.520 you'd say, if I could wave a magic wand and 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.680 a wild pig would never ever ever again walk on 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:56.600 your property? Would you want me to wave it? And 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:02.440 they think and go, no, I just don't want as many, 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:08.960 you know. Uh, so that's going on there. You can 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.560 get stung though, if you're the guy doing this. Mm hmm, 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:16.400 if you're listening to you, if you're listening, they are 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:22.240 fixing to they're fixing to get you under animal cruelty. 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.920 So they haven't caught this person yet, huh. I wonder 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:27.120 how their diving. 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.400 But if he's getting let's say he's getting New York prices, 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:31.400 mm hmm. 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:34.080 I feel like he's getting. 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.920 Oh okay, let's say he's getting ten bucks per Does 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:43.520 that mean Jimmy gets to I'm just saying he's making like, 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.679 you know, making money. Yeah, he's like the last of 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:56.080 the old New York market. Huns. Uh. There's the thing 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.400 I found out about Buddy Mine told me about it. 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.360 Have you ever heard old man Randall to ask you 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:02.720 about this? 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.520 We like started talking about it the other day. 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:11.199 The International Order of Saint Hubertus. 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:17.880 That's how I pronounce it not a expert though. 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.320 Yeah, I don't know how. This was never on my radarm. 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:23.360 You know why you don't know about it, same reason 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:24.160 I don't know about it. 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:25.400 I'm not a member. 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.479 You have to be asked. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:29.360 To join. 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.600 The International Order of Saint Hubertus is a true nightly order. 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:36.160 I mean you can look at their website. They even 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.840 do that thing where like you'll have the first letter 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:40.560 of a paragraph and you put it in a red 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:45.480 box like once upon a time. Oh yeah, like the 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:49.160 old m I mean that's when you know it's legit. 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.920 Yeah, you know, there's got to be a technical term 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:54.000 for that, no doubt. 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:58.400 The International Order of Saint Hubertus is a true nightly order. 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:03.200 In the historical tradition. The Order is under the royal 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.560 protection of His Majesty, King Juan Carlos of Spain, the 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:12.319 grand Master Emeritus in his Imperial and Royal Highness, Archduke 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:20.640 Andreas Salvatore von Habsburg, Lovingren of Austria, and our current 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:26.839 grand Master is His Imperial and Royal Highness Istevon von 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:39.600 Habsburg Lothringen, Archduke of Austria, Prince of Hungary. The International 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.480 Order of Saint Hubertus is comprised of an international group 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:49.079 of individuals Ordun's Brothers, who are passionate about the sports 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.960 of hunting and fishing, and who are vitally interested and 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:57.520 actively involved in the preservation of wildlife its habitat in 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:03.240 the tradition of ethical hunting and fish. They got members 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.240 who are dedicated to upland bird hunting, duck hunting, and 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:12.600 hunters of quote larger and big game. Never been asked 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:17.760 if Brandley was asked to be in this and I don't, 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:19.240 I'm gonna be pised. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:19.600 No. 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.600 I was just thinking we should start our own secret order. 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:25.079 Here's what they stand for. 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.480 That's okay, instead of skull and bones, we'll just go 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:29.920 with skulls and skulls. 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.599 Here's what they stand for. To promote sportsmanlike conduct and 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:38.480 hunting and fishing. To foster good fellowship among sportsmen from 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.960 all over the world. To teach and preserve sound traditional 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:46.599 hunting and fishing customs. To encourage wildlife conservation, and to 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.320 help protect in dangered species from extinction. To promote the 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:54.360 concept of hunting and fishing as an intangible cultural heritage 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:58.640 of humanity. To endeavor to ensure that the economic benefits 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.680 derived from sports, hunting and fishing, support the regions where 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.720 these activities are carried out, and to strive to enhance 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:13.000 respect the responsible hunters and fishermen. If I get into that, 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:14.800 I'm you know, I don't have any tattoos. I'm getting 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.040 that it's got a crest. 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.680 Where's that is going on your lower back? 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:21.080 Right? 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:22.640 Oh? 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:23.560 That's where it has to go. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:25.120 Put the first one? 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:25.280 Then? 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:31.480 Yeah, now expenser, who ran out of place to put them? 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:31.960 He said? 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:34.240 He said, with no small amount of judgment. 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.000 Before you get in a dank, Can you, guys tell 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:40.880 us about your added hunt? But can I start by 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:45.320 telling about how controversial it is? Yeah? Are you familiar 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.080 with the controversy? Mm hmm. 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.240 Well is it similar to asking folks if they want 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:51.120 to get rid of pigs? 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:52.160 Mm hmm. 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:54.600 And if you most of them would say no because 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.000 they're you know, they turned quite a profit. 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:03.200 Yeah. So people like you guys, the people you guys 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.880 getting all excited flying all around the country to hunt 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.320 a dad are killing big horns. 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:12.000 Not exactly, I think. 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:17.640 You hate big horn sheep. 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:21.560 Thanks for putting us in a box. 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:22.880 Tell us about your trip. 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:24.160 I don't think that's true. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.640 No, no, No, I'm joking. I want to want to start 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.680 paraphrasing half a Finger. 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.720 Yeah, oh yeah, we're definitely gonna address that. That's part 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:35.360 of the that's part of the conservation. 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:37.600 I'm being too, I'm being I'm being. 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:40.760 By promoting hunting. 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.920 Yeah, meaning that a dad are there. They're there are 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:50.200 sheep species from North Africa, North Africa, and they run wild, 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.320 and they run wild in Texas. 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.040 Not a sheep, they're odd. 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:00.320 They're closer, more closer, they're closer to oats. 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.440 Oh, I guess that's where I got that. So not 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:06.360 a true sheep. 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.720 Correct, obviously related, but not not a true sheep. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.440 They've gone feral. They do quite well in Texas, and 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.720 people point out that it's been pointed out, not not 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.240 just pointed out. I think it's According to half a Finger, 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:23.000 it's like an objective reality that awed ad are detrimental 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:27.120 to big horn sheep recovery. So, in all fairness, do 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.800 not mean to overblow it. Halfle Finger has pointed out 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.920 he feels that there is like an increasing popularity in 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:38.480 awed hunting because you can hunt around, you don't have 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.160 any kind of bag limits, Like it's kind of the 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:42.920 you know, it's like the the you know, it's like 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:44.720 the wild West of Awdad hunting. 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.240 Right now, You're not going to get a sheep probably 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.600 ever in your life. So if you want to try 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:52.600 for something adjacent to it. 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:55.640 Go down in the desert and you know, run around 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.240 in the rim rocks. They're down there. And he feels 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:05.480 that as this gains popular larity land managers, landowners will 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:12.320 become incentivized to host awed AD on their properties, and 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.200 he feels that this could lead to a net loss 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:23.560 in suitable big horn habitat. But I was hunting, oh Dad, 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.440 when you guess when your mommy's was wiping your noses? 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:31.240 How old fifty one? 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.200 So Steve made it cool before it was cool. 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.520 No, I went one time, I went two times. 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:40.520 I'm just trying to be cute. 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:42.560 I went two times and I was not. I guess 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:44.560 I was. I wasn't really aware of the issue. But anyways, 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:46.440 tell about you guys trip. Yeah. 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.840 Well, a couple of weeks ago, Karin and I and 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:55.840 Karin's significant other Matt, were hosted by doctor Phil of Retzki, the. 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:03.520 Duck Doctor DNA doc now now odd AD DNA doc 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.800 also Turkey DNA doc Yep, he's got all the names. 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.800 He hosted us down in West Texas on UTEPS, the 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:13.600 Indio Research Station. 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.280 Yep, he's at the Yeah. So so we weren't at 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:22.879 you know, uh RAN for research for it. Yeah, University 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.480 of Texas at El Paso has a research facility that's 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.240 about thirty five or forty it's forty thousand. 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.200 That's where we were, right on the Rio Grande. 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:34.760 All these details. 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.520 We're looking at Mexico, the mountains in Mexico the whole time, glorious, 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.640 stunning country. He wanted us to come down in February 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.920 or January when it was cooler, and the best time 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.719 we could pull it off was in early April, and 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.280 so odds were that it was going to be hot 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.359 while we were down there, but we got really lucky 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.040 with a cold front that rolled in just days before 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:57.439 we landed. And if they were still trying to squeak 0:18:57.440 --> 0:18:58.720 out of that cold front, and I don't think it 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:03.680 ever got above seventy degrees. We hunted two days and 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.000 we did our best to help the conservation aspect and 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.000 tried to just shoot and use at first was our 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:10.840 main objective. 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.639 So this facility is hostile to the odd ads. 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.480 I mean, they've just made themselves at home. 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:20.880 Yeah. 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.280 Yeah, they're a desert big horn that roam in and out. 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.560 But this is just south of the Elephant Mountains, I believe, 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.760 which has a herd of bighorn sheep and they'll bleed 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.520 over into this ranch. But the odd ad have made 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.359 themselves at home. There weren't a lot of odd ad around, 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:42.080 or at least they weren't easy to find. We made 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:43.760 it look easy in two days, but it was because 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:45.520 the weather was so nice. We were able to hunt 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.440 all day, glass them up in the morning and take 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.800 hours to get in within rifle range, and you know, 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.800 slowly pack them out without worrying about wasting any of 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:55.200 the meat. 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.280 But the university does want to get rid of them 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:00.720 or reduce the numbers. 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:05.680 Well, that's kind of the general vibe in West Texas 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.640 is to keep the numbers reduced for desert big horn. 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:10.479 Sheet You're never going to be able to get rid 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.240 of odd ad just because they've made themselves at home 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:17.240 and they do so well in that landscape. But yeah, 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.360 desert big horns certainly sit higher on the pedestal down there, 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.800 but odd ad are very close because of the outfitting 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.800 opportunity the trophy hunting big air quotes. 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:29.600 Can you pass that that thing down here so I 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:30.119 can look at it? 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:36.560 Yeah, I can't have fifty pounds. Corey shot it really 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:43.360 really huge sand Graham, So Steve, like, I guess your 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:47.960 hand doesn't even fit around the the whole horn there. 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:54.320 But yeah, just more on that. You know, the phil 0:20:54.600 --> 0:21:02.000 Phil's lab, he's he's trying to figure out certain new 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.439 techniques to test aspects of the odd ads. So like 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:12.840 they everyone that we shot, we collectively got four. They 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:17.160 all got nasal swabbed. Uh and uh, they all got 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:19.880 a piece of meat cut out of them for testing 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:24.920 for various diseases and such. But to my understanding, that 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:31.240 research facility is potential grounds for desert big horn reintroductions. 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:35.560 Oh really, so there are it would be possible to 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:39.480 put together some kind of study or tests to see 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.439 how many females would need to be taken out of 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:47.560 the population in order to accommodate I don't really know 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:52.640 the right language, but you know, to accommodate number exactly exactly? 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:56.600 Are you counting up that he's like eleven or twelve 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:57.160 years old? 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.359 That's what we guesstimated somewhere between ten and thirteen. It's 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:01.160 so hard to tell. 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:05.280 I mean, well, the yeah, the annually ier rubbed off 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.200 on the outer very smooth. Now. 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:10.280 I also brought in that you that I shot, which 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.000 was an older at you as well and just as 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:18.440 beautiful of a trophy. And the meat is ten times better. 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:21.399 Because he has a real bad eating reputation. 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:23.720 Yeah, which I don't understand. Well, it's just like people 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:27.000 who say antelope aren't good to eat, or sagey mule deer. 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:28.640 You know, they just don't know how to cook more 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:29.720 than cereal. 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:36.920 Yeah, I felt like the meat flavor is so incredibly mild. 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:40.280 I mean I shot the little list of them. Of 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:43.080