Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody on Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth Podcast. The it just takes some time. Addition,
Speaker 1: as the Bengals hit Thereby with a five and four
Speaker 1: record and find themselves one game behind the first place
Speaker 1: Ravens in the AFC North with eight games to go
Speaker 1: coming up. It's an in depth conversation with my friend
Speaker 1: and colleague Jeff Butch Hobson from Bengals dot Com. In
Speaker 1: addition to talking about this year's team, will discuss his
Speaker 1: relationship with Paul Brown and Mike Brown, and will also
Speaker 1: compare answers on a series of top three lists, including
Speaker 1: our most Memorable Bengals games and the biggest what ifs
Speaker 1: in franchise history. The Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by
Speaker 1: Ultimate Bengals, the free to play Next Level Fantasy Football
Speaker 1: game downloaded now from the App Store and Google Play.
Speaker 1: And here's a quick reminder that you can have the
Speaker 1: latest edition of this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet,
Speaker 1: or computer by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's
Speaker 1: the greatest thing since the Bengals Video Content team. If
Speaker 1: you're a big Bengals fan, you have undoubtedly enjoyed the
Speaker 1: tremendous work of the Bengals video content team. Every day
Speaker 1: there's something interesting on the team's website and social media channels,
Speaker 1: including the recent edition of Dan and Dave's radio call
Speaker 1: of the game where there's a camera in the booth
Speaker 1: that shows Dave Lapham and yours truly going bananas on
Speaker 1: the Bengals big plays. So kudos to Seth, Marissa Luke, Gary,
Speaker 1: Adam Jay and everybody involved. Your work is as good
Speaker 1: as any video content team in the NFL. Now, let's
Speaker 1: get to my conversation with Bengals dot Com editor Jeff
Speaker 1: Butch Hobson, beginning with his path to Cincinnati or anybody
Speaker 1: that's heard your Boston accent over the years knows that
Speaker 1: you are from New England. How did you wind up
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati covering the Bengals. I think Jerry kress Nick
Speaker 1: was probably a big factor. Jerry I had worked with
Speaker 1: Cherry at that Portland Press, Harrald, and he had come
Speaker 1: out to the Cincinnati Post to cover the Reds and
Speaker 1: that was about a year before I came out. And
Speaker 1: it was such a great fit. The city was you know,
Speaker 1: you could buy a house, two little kids, wanted another one,
Speaker 1: great place to great place to raise a family. As
Speaker 1: it turned out, that was perfect. Wanted a pro town,
Speaker 1: pro city, you know, first class, all the way worked
Speaker 1: out thirty one years ago. Couldn't ask for it worked
Speaker 1: out any better. So I arrived in Cincinnati in November
Speaker 1: of ninety five. So I never met Paul brown which
Speaker 1: is a big regret of mine. Described meeting Paul and
Speaker 1: how well did you get to know him, Hordy, He
Speaker 1: would have liked it. He liked announcers. He the guy
Speaker 1: I grew up with listening to in in his Red Sox.
Speaker 1: For him a sixty seven impossible dream. Ken Coleman who
Speaker 1: actually broke in, Uh not broke in, but I think
Speaker 1: one of his one of his his first big breakthrough
Speaker 1: job was he was announcing for Paul Browns Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 1: And so that's something we had in common right away
Speaker 1: that we talked about. We had kind of Ernie Davis
Speaker 1: in common too. Paul traded for Ernie Davis when he
Speaker 1: was in Cleveland, and Ernie, of course was the fabled
Speaker 1: Heisman Trophy winner from our school Syracuse. So that was
Speaker 1: that was obviously obvious. Andre very easy guy to talk
Speaker 1: to You would not know that he was the man
Speaker 1: that invented football. I you know, saw him on talk
Speaker 1: to him, trying to talk to him every day because
Speaker 1: he ran the Bengals, seeing you know, he had to
Speaker 1: talk to Mike or Paul every day. They ran the
Speaker 1: Bengals and they were very accessible. You know, this was
Speaker 1: you know, Paul Brown was a guy that when he
Speaker 1: professionalized football, pro football was right there with swords swallowing
Speaker 1: and you know, broom hockey. You know, it was not
Speaker 1: a popular sport. The country was ruled by boxing, college football, baseball.
Speaker 1: Paul would probably you know, I'm sure Paul got on
Speaker 1: the horn in the nineteen forty six, nineteen forty seven
Speaker 1: and say, hey, come on over and cover us, you know.
Speaker 1: And so he was very you know, anytime you call
Speaker 1: him at home, he'd pick it up. He'd answered it,
Speaker 1: talk to you. I mean, it was you know, I've
Speaker 1: told you the story many times when he was said
Speaker 1: to Sunday of mind when it was a very steamy
Speaker 1: practice on the sideline of Spinney Field he was at
Speaker 1: every practice, came over to me said, Sunday, do you
Speaker 1: mind if I tell you something? You know, a man
Speaker 1: came down from Aunt Rushmore. Yes, he can say anything
Speaker 1: he wants to me. And he said, I'm worried about
Speaker 1: your posture, and he h, you know, I kind of
Speaker 1: a little hunched over there, you know. And he gave
Speaker 1: me a few tips. And if he came back now,
Speaker 1: he'd be a little disappointed. I've turned into Quasimodo. But
Speaker 1: I told I told Mike Brown about it. I turned
Speaker 1: Mike Brown about it. Later I talked him about He goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: he goes. You know, he taught he taught health at
Speaker 1: UH at Masslin, you know, he was he was a
Speaker 1: teacher and he taught health and he went into the
Speaker 1: whole thing about sclosis and uh what you know, curvature
Speaker 1: of the spine, and uh very nice. So I remember
Speaker 1: one time I went down at nineteen ninety one draft. Uh, coach,
Speaker 1: can I take you out to lunch? We'll talk about
Speaker 1: the draft. He goes, I don't go out to lunch,
Speaker 1: he said, but UH, bring your lunch and uh we'll
Speaker 1: have it. We'll we'll eat right here in my office. Son.
Speaker 1: I He pulled out a bag lunch with, you know,
Speaker 1: a sandwich in an apple and uh I had whatever
Speaker 1: I had, and we we talked the draft. Uh At
Speaker 1: one thing I remember about that one is he was
Speaker 1: he was very intrigued by a tall quarterback I believe
Speaker 1: out of San Diego State, Dan McGuire, the younger brother
Speaker 1: of Mac McGuire. As the draft unfolded that day. Uh
Speaker 1: I Dan McGuire went sixteen and the Bengals were picking
Speaker 1: I believe eighteen or nineteen. And I'm hell and yeah.
Speaker 1: So the first thing I asked him after the draft
Speaker 1: was when the when we when the writers met with him, Coach,
Speaker 1: you had you know, you had McGuire was sitting there.
Speaker 1: He goes, yeah, he goes, that would have been very interesting,
Speaker 1: he said, if McGuire had been on the board. So
Speaker 1: that was you know, uh, Mike, Mike likes his uh
Speaker 1: he likes his quarterbacks tall. And uh so did PB.
Speaker 1: How did Jernst trust? I think just by right the
Speaker 1: right what he told you and and and being uh
Speaker 1: and and having the facts and uh I think, uh
Speaker 1: talking to him about you know, about his pat you know,
Speaker 1: about what he accomplished, knowing that I wasn't you know,
Speaker 1: knowing that I knew, you know, knowing knowing that I
Speaker 1: knew what I was talking about that I had known
Speaker 1: about football from back in the day and about now,
Speaker 1: and uh, I think too, if you showed up every day.
Speaker 1: He liked that. He used to joke with the writers
Speaker 1: about if a guy wasn't there. And this was before me,
Speaker 1: but I talked to other guys about him, and if
Speaker 1: a guy missed today, he'd say, oh, yeah, that must
Speaker 1: be a union off day or something, you know, kidding
Speaker 1: the guy. He would because he would notice if you
Speaker 1: were there or not. So I think if you put
Speaker 1: in the I'll never forget. There was a a crisis
Speaker 1: going on my first year, the only year that he
Speaker 1: was alive that I covered the team. My first year
Speaker 1: was the when Mike, when Sam Wish shut the locker
Speaker 1: room to a female reporter and you know, went into
Speaker 1: this wild kind of crazy thing about how you know,
Speaker 1: it was not right for you know, even though it
Speaker 1: was NFL policy and the policy of the country was,
Speaker 1: you know, equal rights. You opened up the room for everybody.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, Sam thought he was this arbiter,
Speaker 1: a small arbiter all of a sudden, So, of course
Speaker 1: was a national crisis that blew up. And I'm on
Speaker 1: the West coast. My first you know, my third fourth
Speaker 1: game covering the team, and I'm I could barely reeve
Speaker 1: and I'm in a hotel in Seattle and I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get Paul Brown and I can't. You know, he's
Speaker 1: not in the office. And you know I got his
Speaker 1: home number. How often you want to use that? But
Speaker 1: you know, you got to talk to Paul about this.
Speaker 1: And he called me in the hotel. He called my
Speaker 1: room at four in the morning my time. It was
Speaker 1: seven in the morning his time. But he knew that
Speaker 1: I was on. He knew the Cincinnati Post, he knew
Speaker 1: it was an afternoon paper. He knew I had desplay
Speaker 1: had a tact him, all right, phone rang at four
Speaker 1: in the morning. It was he said, Hey, this is
Speaker 1: this is Paul you know, you know, not mister Brown
Speaker 1: or coach Brown. This is Paul. You know that's how
Speaker 1: he wanted to be called. I said, coach. Thank god,
Speaker 1: thank god you called me. He says, well, I knew
Speaker 1: you needed to call me. I know it's early, but
Speaker 1: I figured you were up. So I'll I'll never for
Speaker 1: I'll never forget him for that because he bailed out
Speaker 1: a he bailed out you know, he bailed out a
Speaker 1: confused scribe that morning, and I never forget one time
Speaker 1: I had to barge in. Was I had to barge in.
Speaker 1: It was sweet in the middle of the game because
Speaker 1: something had come up on the wire about there was
Speaker 1: a story that has been us falling out with Paul
Speaker 1: Brown and Sam White and Cincinnati. So my desk wanted
Speaker 1: to get me in there. And he was on his
Speaker 1: He would go to the games even though he needed oxygen.
Speaker 1: You know, that's how much he was committed to this team.
Speaker 1: And he was on his and he was on the machine,
Speaker 1: and he uh. I barged in and he looked at
Speaker 1: me with his eyes wide open, and I thought, my god,
Speaker 1: I've killed the man that he woted football. But no,
Speaker 1: he was fine. He said, come on down, come on down.
Speaker 1: I told him what was going on. He goes, now,
Speaker 1: that's bowl. He gave me two great quotes. I'm sure
Speaker 1: I let a notebook with it. And it's another night.
Speaker 1: He bailed me out. I mean, you know the guy
Speaker 1: who said the guy was terrific. Did you barge or
Speaker 1: did you politely knock? I think I think I probably
Speaker 1: did a little bit of both. I hope I hope
Speaker 1: I did. I hope I did a little bit of both.
Speaker 1: You know, he obviously had such a curious mind. I
Speaker 1: bet that's why he liked you, because you're a curious
Speaker 1: person about many subjects. I bet you connected on the
Speaker 1: level of two curious people. Yeah, I think. And it's
Speaker 1: the same thing with Mike. You know, Mike is just
Speaker 1: how to cut out of the same mold. Mike's very,
Speaker 1: very interested in what we do as writers and as broadcasters.
Speaker 1: That's how he grew up. He grew up around sports,
Speaker 1: he grew up and listening to broadcasters. He grew up
Speaker 1: reading the papers, you know. So he was you know,
Speaker 1: he was really uh, you know, very into history and
Speaker 1: saw him I and I imagine Paul was too. But
Speaker 1: you know, Mike and I oftentimes we would spend more
Speaker 1: time talking about history and and and before getting it
Speaker 1: well before or after we had get into the business
Speaker 1: of the day. And uh, but I think you're I
Speaker 1: think exactly right, Mike, Uh, Hordy. Mike and Paul both
Speaker 1: both curious guys, you know, I mean they you know,
Speaker 1: they read the papers, they listened to uh, they listened
Speaker 1: to the radio accounts in the play by play, So
Speaker 1: it was you know, it was kind of like you know,
Speaker 1: I told Mike when he offered me the job, I said, jeez,
Speaker 1: I said, I don't know if I want you to
Speaker 1: be my boss. I like you as a friend. You know.
Speaker 1: He goes, well, we can still be friends, and he
Speaker 1: was exactly what right about that? Too? Yeah. I wish
Speaker 1: people knew the Mike Brown that we know, because he's
Speaker 1: a great storyteller. He's obviously extremely well read on all subjects,
Speaker 1: and he's got this whole body laugh. You know, when
Speaker 1: Dave Lappam makes him laugh, it's a whole body shake
Speaker 1: that you can hear from like three rooms away. And
Speaker 1: it's just it's such an enjoyable part of the job
Speaker 1: getting to spend time with him when it's not you know,
Speaker 1: talking about hardcore business Bengals topics that he has to address.
Speaker 1: And I think I think that's another thing that people
Speaker 1: people with on is he likes to laugh. He's a
Speaker 1: warm guy, and I know the way he's treated my fan,
Speaker 1: uh he is. He has been the ultimate boss. I mean,
Speaker 1: if here's a guy I remember, you know, I could
Speaker 1: call him on really to talk about anything, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's uh, that's the kind of guy he is.
Speaker 1: And I know and I know he would help me
Speaker 1: if I needed it. He has helped me if I
Speaker 1: needed it, And uh, you know, I i'd get him
Speaker 1: on the horn. I know, I'd get at a very
Speaker 1: bad time, you know, whether I was with the Bengals,
Speaker 1: when I was working before the Bengals or the Inquiry,
Speaker 1: it had to be. I'm sure, I'm sure. I remember
Speaker 1: one time Jack Brennan said he was listening in on
Speaker 1: a phone call with I had with Mike when I
Speaker 1: was at the Inquirer, and I was growing Mike pretty good,
Speaker 1: and Mike coughing up the phone. He said to Jack,
Speaker 1: how'd you like to go through that four times a day?
Speaker 1: You know? And you know so, but he was always
Speaker 1: very pleasant, you know, and he would tell me. I
Speaker 1: remember one time he told me, I take take the
Speaker 1: rest of the night off, you know. And so he
Speaker 1: was really really a good uh really really a great
Speaker 1: guy to work for. He had to work with when
Speaker 1: I when I was at the Inquirer. You're visiting with
Speaker 1: Jeff Hobson, if I'm not mistaken, you were really the
Speaker 1: first hardcore newspaper guy to go to work for a
Speaker 1: team's website. Was that hard? Yeah, it was very hard.
Speaker 1: It was very hard. It was a I talked to
Speaker 1: a lot of people about that, and it was a
Speaker 1: hard call because you know, I guess you kind of
Speaker 1: fancy yourself as being independent, you know, being an independent
Speaker 1: guy and all that, and what plus, what would people say,
Speaker 1: if you know, jees, if I go over to work there,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna say, well, he wasn't hort. He was.
Speaker 1: He was so soft on them when he worked at
Speaker 1: The Inquirer that they hired him. But if you look
Speaker 1: at the coverage in nineteen ninety eight, nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 1: I think you would have to say, I can't believe
Speaker 1: Mike hired that guy. In fact, I think some people
Speaker 1: in his family may have even said that he offered
Speaker 1: me the job. But you know, it was interesting, it was,
Speaker 1: but it was easy to do. You know why it
Speaker 1: was easy to do a hordy because I was going
Speaker 1: to go to work for Mike. I know he would
Speaker 1: be a All I would need is a handshake. I
Speaker 1: didn't have to sign a deal or anything. I knew
Speaker 1: it was word. He was as good as his word,
Speaker 1: so is mine. And it was and it was because
Speaker 1: I know how he treated people. He treated people well,
Speaker 1: and that in the end. I think was what made
Speaker 1: that was what made the call um. I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, it was still sports, you know, And what
Speaker 1: was wrong with being on the other side. You know,
Speaker 1: I've been twenty years, I'd been on the other side
Speaker 1: at newspapers. Why not get on the other side, see
Speaker 1: how the business has run and h and I. You know,
Speaker 1: it's an exciting thing. You're twenty fourth. You know, I
Speaker 1: could write it any time, I could post at any
Speaker 1: moment I could. You know, that's a that's a that's
Speaker 1: a reporter's dream, you know. So but I never forget
Speaker 1: Mike saying, hey, look, I don't know where this thing
Speaker 1: is going. And I told him when Mike offered me
Speaker 1: the job, I said, you know, Mike, I don't know
Speaker 1: a damn thing about computers. I said, I can barely
Speaker 1: get onto my laptop. I said, my advice to you
Speaker 1: is to get a guy fresh out of college or
Speaker 1: a lady whatever, somebody fresh out of college. He knows
Speaker 1: something about computers, and he goes, you know, but I
Speaker 1: want somebody the fans trust, which tells you something when
Speaker 1: he thinks about the fans. Because I want somebody to
Speaker 1: fans trust, the fans know and who they'll you know,
Speaker 1: who they'll read and they'll trust. And I thought that
Speaker 1: was very you know, it was interesting because neither of
Speaker 1: us knew where this thing called the Internet was going.
Speaker 1: I mean, but I do, but I kind of knew
Speaker 1: if something blew up, if it didn't blow up, But Mike,
Speaker 1: would you know, keep me around. I could do something
Speaker 1: for the man. I felt like I could do and
Speaker 1: that's you know, I just in the end, it was
Speaker 1: came down to having a good relationship with Mike. And yes,
Speaker 1: he was right, he was all over it. The Internet
Speaker 1: was going to take off. I didn't think it would.
Speaker 1: I had no I had no idea. I had no idea.
Speaker 1: But you know, Mike, I think a lot like his dad,
Speaker 1: not afraid of anything new. You know, I'm not afraid
Speaker 1: of anything new. And I and if it hadn't been,
Speaker 1: if it hadn't anybody but Mike, I don't know if
Speaker 1: I would have taken the joone. I mean, the way
Speaker 1: the newspaper industry has gone. Unfortunately, it's probably the best
Speaker 1: decision you ever made. There's no doubt about There's no
Speaker 1: because yeah, I mean that that that industry is struggling.
Speaker 1: And last time I looked. The NFL is is not struggling.
Speaker 1: That is accurate. Let's talk about the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: Every NFL city has a representative on the committee. You
Speaker 1: are the Cincinnati rep. The first time you're in that room,
Speaker 1: was it pretty humbling to think? And I'm just a
Speaker 1: kid who grew up loving sports in Boston, and now
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a say on who gets to
Speaker 1: go to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, no question,
Speaker 1: uh spine tingling. Actually And the first time, this is
Speaker 1: the first time I did it was in nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: nine and two thousand when I was at The Inquirer,
Speaker 1: and then when I took the job, I had to
Speaker 1: give that up. But such as things have changed such
Speaker 1: that a lot of writers we've been around a long
Speaker 1: time are now working for teams. So they actually changed
Speaker 1: the bye laws so I could, I could, I could
Speaker 1: uh yeah, b be a voter. Yeah, uh I you know,
Speaker 1: such as it is. But when I in my first
Speaker 1: room in ninety nine, Will McDonald was in there, which
Speaker 1: was a big That was that was that was my
Speaker 1: biggest Yeah, I mean yeah, it was okay, yeah, Lawrence Taylor, sure,
Speaker 1: I'll put him in. But the fact that I was
Speaker 1: sharing a room with Will mcdonnaugh. Was awesome to me
Speaker 1: because McDonald was a guy. He was a giant to me,
Speaker 1: and a giant. McDonald was a He was a great guy.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a guy. Todd Archer said it best.
Speaker 1: He didn't big time yet you know, he would call me.
Speaker 1: He would call me on the phone when I was
Speaker 1: covering the Bengals and oh my god, but he was
Speaker 1: doing his due diligence. I said, my god, why is
Speaker 1: Will mcdonna calling me? Because you know, to us, to me,
Speaker 1: to a guy growing up in Boston, Will mcdonnaugh, Peter
Speaker 1: Gammon's lee want for those guys are and still are
Speaker 1: the gold standard. And that was my big throw, was
Speaker 1: sharing a room with Will McDonald. Yeah, you're right about
Speaker 1: him not big timing people. Because his son, Sean is
Speaker 1: obviously one of my closer friends from going to school
Speaker 1: with him, and I remember meeting Will and at that
Speaker 1: point he's at the height of his fame. He's on
Speaker 1: TV every week as an NFL insider, and he was
Speaker 1: the most normal. It's even hard to describe just how
Speaker 1: ordinary almost he came off. He was gay, Yeah, no, exactly.
Speaker 1: I Borge's Ron Borge' is also a great Willie's story.
Speaker 1: Probably the ultimate is at at an owner's meeting and
Speaker 1: Willie was out playing tennis and he came back in
Speaker 1: and the other writers are grinding in the lobby and
Speaker 1: mcdonne's a big guy for one of the teams and said,
Speaker 1: you better make a call. Your coach is about to
Speaker 1: get caned, and kept walking, you know, kept walking through him.
Speaker 1: Probably save that guy's job because it was, you know,
Speaker 1: because it was true apparently, so you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: as I'm sure it was. And uh, I remember one year,
Speaker 1: I think it was the year that herschel Walker came
Speaker 1: out and signed with the USFL. Any football story, will
Speaker 1: had it. I mean it was like that was the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two I remember it just stuck him out.
Speaker 1: I was like a Hall of Fame year because the
Speaker 1: USFL was coming out. I mean, he had Patriot's NFL USFL.
Speaker 1: He had it, he had the story. He was wiring
Speaker 1: and yet and yet you'd call it slept like me
Speaker 1: and since then, you know what I mean. So that
Speaker 1: tells you tells you something about the guy. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: Lap also describes meeting him as a high school football
Speaker 1: player is one of the greatest thrills of his life.
Speaker 1: He's seeing Laps getting ready to go off to college
Speaker 1: and Will shows up at one of his high school
Speaker 1: football practices to do a story and then Lap said,
Speaker 1: it was you know, it's like meeting a beatle. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's back when sports fighters are God. Now now I
Speaker 1: think they're just clerks, I guess, but uh, it's it's
Speaker 1: not like it was. So in twenty eighteen, you wrote
Speaker 1: really the definitive history of the Bengals to date with
Speaker 1: the book This Date in Bengals History. How did it
Speaker 1: come about? Well, thank you for that. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Other guys like Chick Lugwig, they've had pretty good shots
Speaker 1: at it too. Well, it was the fiftieth anniversary and
Speaker 1: one of the ideas, well, an idea I had was
Speaker 1: doing this, let's do it this day every day and
Speaker 1: we were going to do it for maybe six months
Speaker 1: until the end of the season, and I was kind
Speaker 1: of getting into it, and you know, I was thinking, geez,
Speaker 1: you know, the more I would research it, you know,
Speaker 1: there was just some interesting you know, every day seemed
Speaker 1: to have something, you know, it was really interesting, and
Speaker 1: you really got to credit the guys who've covered the
Speaker 1: team back when it was the guys who have covered
Speaker 1: it at the beginning. And since I mean some great
Speaker 1: you know, some great reporters have covered this team and
Speaker 1: they had great nuggets. Is the great Dan Horde would say,
Speaker 1: we're always looking for nuggets, right, always for the homework,
Speaker 1: and these guys has had him, you know, so it
Speaker 1: just kind of just kind of mushroom hardy. And I
Speaker 1: got to say, you know, the Emily Parker, the director
Speaker 1: of you know communications, she was so helpful and so
Speaker 1: encouraging and really got it done. If it hadn't been
Speaker 1: for her, it couldn't have got done. And uh, but
Speaker 1: it was you know, we thought it was a good
Speaker 1: thing for the club to get it, you know, to
Speaker 1: get something about, you know, to get something in a book.
Speaker 1: Because I told her, I said, she's I want to
Speaker 1: keep doing it. It was after the season. I said,
Speaker 1: let's do the whole year. Let's do you know, the
Speaker 1: Bengals are worthy enough three hundred and sixty five days
Speaker 1: a year. And then I said, you know, if I
Speaker 1: do it, I let's put it in a book after it.
Speaker 1: And I thought it'd be easier to do it and
Speaker 1: I just put everything to get but it's not you know,
Speaker 1: like everything else. Really had no clue how how in
Speaker 1: depth that was going to be. But Emily, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: bailed me out there too, and you know it just
Speaker 1: kind of moreh from being a doing it this day
Speaker 1: and Bengal Sister just putting them all together. Will you
Speaker 1: write another book? I'd love to. I'd write the but
Speaker 1: it might just be another compilation of I'd like to
Speaker 1: do the best of Bengals dot Com because there has been,
Speaker 1: believe it or not, there has been some good that
Speaker 1: I have had time to write, some rather in depth
Speaker 1: stuff that I kind of you know, some stuff on
Speaker 1: Odell Thurman, you know, uh, Marvin Lewis when he first
Speaker 1: got hired, you know, some of the longer, longer pieces
Speaker 1: that I think would be worthy of maybe putting in
Speaker 1: a book Bengals dot Com. But I think I'd also
Speaker 1: like to work on a I mean, I would like
Speaker 1: to work on a book. But you know how it is, hordy,
Speaker 1: you know, just getting from one day to the next,
Speaker 1: you know, that's that's the tough I don't know how
Speaker 1: these guys do it, who cover it beat and how
Speaker 1: they write books I mean, I just don't know how
Speaker 1: that they are. They're they're fabulous, because I it was
Speaker 1: just hard enough to do that book, and I hadn't
Speaker 1: and it was written already. I can't imagine what it's
Speaker 1: like to write a book from scratch. I'm convinced that
Speaker 1: some people have more hours in their day than we do.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's exact, actually right. I mean
Speaker 1: it's you know, you read these history books and it's
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it's depressing. I mean, look at
Speaker 1: what look at the work these guys did, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean Robert Carroll and his and his and his
Speaker 1: biography on Lyndon Johnson. I mean, that's all he must
Speaker 1: have done. But he obviously he did other things. He mean,
Speaker 1: he had a family, he had I mean, how did
Speaker 1: he do all that? I don't I mean the same
Speaker 1: thing with Dob with David Hobbistan, who's my ultimate And
Speaker 1: how did he do it? Before he passed? I mean
Speaker 1: he passed, he was he was out in Stanford, California,
Speaker 1: working on a book on y eight Tiddle when he
Speaker 1: actually got when he actually got killed in a carrec
Speaker 1: and you know he was still I mean, he was
Speaker 1: still I think he was like sixty six, sixty eight,
Speaker 1: maybe seventy, and he was still grinding it out these
Speaker 1: I don't know, Hordy, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's uh. You know what the Great Ray Oliver told me,
Speaker 1: the great Strength coach, one of my best friends. He
Speaker 1: told me, he said, Butche never struck. He never struck
Speaker 1: because you're always trying to. You're trying to, you're trying
Speaker 1: to grind and go to the next thing, and there's
Speaker 1: always somebody better than you, so you can't struck. It's
Speaker 1: good advice. Never strike. Let's talk about this season to date,
Speaker 1: five and four basically at the midway point. I guess
Speaker 1: fifty three percent if you take nine out of seventeen games.
Speaker 1: If somebody had said prior to the season, they're going
Speaker 1: to be five and four with road wins at Baltimore
Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh, you know, nobody should lie. Everybody would have
Speaker 1: signed up for that. But the last two weeks have
Speaker 1: been a huge disappointment. That takes some of the shine
Speaker 1: off of the accomplishment. Accomplishment obviously, yeah, it does. I mean,
Speaker 1: especially Green Bay. You know, you think about it's funny
Speaker 1: when you look at that thing in May and then
Speaker 1: you live it. It's completely different, you know, And I
Speaker 1: gotta keep I gotta remember that when I write my
Speaker 1: schedules story when it's released. You know, it's just it's
Speaker 1: never the it's the world's completely different, you know, And
Speaker 1: you know it's this is an interesting team, you know,
Speaker 1: is this a probably, as last night proved, we're you know,
Speaker 1: we're doing this on a Friday morning, the day after
Speaker 1: the Ravens get clocked by the Dolphins. You know where
Speaker 1: we are part of this adventure. The Bengals are part
Speaker 1: of this affection. I don't know what to call it,
Speaker 1: but anybody you know it's Pete Roselle's parody. But it's
Speaker 1: beyond that, you know what I mean. It's uh, every
Speaker 1: week changes. Now granted that doesn't take away what happened
Speaker 1: with the Jets and the Browns are going to have
Speaker 1: to be better, but you know, did this team arrive
Speaker 1: in Baltimore or was it? Is this part of the process.
Speaker 1: You have a breakthrough game, but then you get bounced
Speaker 1: in a game in games that you should win. Is
Speaker 1: that part of the process? And I remember we talked
Speaker 1: to each other. You look, you know, we looked at
Speaker 1: each other after I think the Jets game and said,
Speaker 1: when has this happened? When have they had a breakthrough
Speaker 1: win followed by a game like that? And it's hard
Speaker 1: to get your finger on, but I could, you know,
Speaker 1: let's I mean, if you go back to two thousand
Speaker 1: and three and two thousand and four, they won eight
Speaker 1: eight both years before they found their footing in OH five?
Speaker 1: Now is this so five? Is it O four? I
Speaker 1: guess we're going to find out, but you know it's
Speaker 1: it's OH five. They were a very accomplished team that
Speaker 1: they could have won the Super Bowl in OH four
Speaker 1: they were just kind of trying to find their footing
Speaker 1: with you know, they had some bad days in great days.
Speaker 1: Is this all four or five? We'll find out. I
Speaker 1: think we'll find out. I think this team does have.
Speaker 1: This team's obviously future is in front of it. But
Speaker 1: how are we in the near future? Five future? Where
Speaker 1: are we? They're not as good as we thought they
Speaker 1: were after Baltimore. They're not as bad as they looked
Speaker 1: last week. I think five and four is where this
Speaker 1: team is right now. They've got eight games left, five
Speaker 1: at home. If they can win half of those games,
Speaker 1: which seems pretty reasonable to me. You know, you've got
Speaker 1: a winning season and who knows when one more than that,
Speaker 1: and you're probably will a playoff team, which is not
Speaker 1: out of the question. I think you're right. I think
Speaker 1: they're five and four because the AFC is five and four,
Speaker 1: so they're in step. To me, the thing is defense
Speaker 1: because I think offensively, I mean, I don't know. Borrow
Speaker 1: doesn't have to do anything for me. He's he's real,
Speaker 1: he's a real deal. I'm not going to get excited
Speaker 1: about the eleven interceptions. Quarterbacks throw interceptions. I get it.
Speaker 1: It was a bad one. To ninety nine yard was
Speaker 1: a bad one. But this kid's you can win a
Speaker 1: super Bowl with this guy. But to me, it's the
Speaker 1: defense because I think with a guy like Burrow and
Speaker 1: a defense that's fourteen fifteen sixteen, you get a shot.
Speaker 1: You get a shot, you know, but you can't give
Speaker 1: up five bills to Mike White, you know, because your
Speaker 1: quarterback goes out there and get your thirty one points
Speaker 1: on the road. Those are the games you have to win,
Speaker 1: right and I think they win most of them because
Speaker 1: I think this defense is I think this defense is
Speaker 1: at the very least fourteen fifteen sixteen. It's certainly it
Speaker 1: certainly costs that much, you know, And I think they're
Speaker 1: thinking the same thing. Hey, we got a quarterback that
Speaker 1: can take us there, and we got to you know,
Speaker 1: and at least a better than average defense that ought
Speaker 1: to be enough, you know. And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, they they've got to work
Speaker 1: it out. But I think that I don't think the
Speaker 1: defense is bad. Is as bad as it's been the
Speaker 1: last two two weeks, and it better not be. But
Speaker 1: because I think, you know, because I think they, like
Speaker 1: I said, I think I think Borrowing Company is good enough.
Speaker 1: Our eyes did not deceive us in the first seven
Speaker 1: weeks when the defense played lights out. Now, admittedly they
Speaker 1: had some games there against teams that are not offensive juggernauts,
Speaker 1: and that helps your stats, but it wasn't flukey. There
Speaker 1: was nothing flukey about the first seven games. And the
Speaker 1: Cleveland game is a little bit flukey because you've got
Speaker 1: a ninety nine yard pick six, You've got a drive
Speaker 1: that started at the eight after another interception, got a
Speaker 1: drive that started at the thirty because of a fumble.
Speaker 1: That's how games get ugly. Yeah, So the Jets game
Speaker 1: was a lousy performance on defense. There's no other word
Speaker 1: to describe it. The Cleveland game to me is a
Speaker 1: little bit flukey because of the turnovers and because you
Speaker 1: gave up two huge plays. That's the only worried to
Speaker 1: me about that about the Cleveland game was the sixty
Speaker 1: yard There was a seventy yard run. They haven't done that,
Speaker 1: and you can't do it. They've been so good, they've
Speaker 1: been so good preventing that, and that just kind of
Speaker 1: came out of nowhere. But I guess, you know, I
Speaker 1: guess you're a log one, right, you're a loug one.
Speaker 1: I mean I think that you know, and the big
Speaker 1: play that you know, the sixty yard passed you can't.
Speaker 1: Those are the two plays that bad to me. Everything
Speaker 1: else I think, you know, I think you do put that.
Speaker 1: I think you do put the Jets game in. Zach.
Speaker 1: Put the Jets game on the offense because you felt like,
Speaker 1: you know, the big defense head played like you said,
Speaker 1: the defense played so well for seven games, Hey bail
Speaker 1: him out. And to me, you can't throw a pick
Speaker 1: with four thirty six left in a five point lead.
Speaker 1: Whether you want to put that on the call the quarterback,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but you know you have to come
Speaker 1: out of that drive. If you have to come out
Speaker 1: of that, you've got to train at least a minute
Speaker 1: a minute thirty out of that. I don't blame the
Speaker 1: defense for that, all right. I was on a podcast
Speaker 1: last week with Bengals super fan and podcasters Zim who Day,
Speaker 1: and during the course of our conversation, he put me
Speaker 1: on the spot and asked me to name my top
Speaker 1: five Bengals of all times. So, off the top of
Speaker 1: my head, I said, Dave Lapham, easy, number one, pick YEP,
Speaker 1: Anthony Munio's, Chad Johnson, A. J. Green, and Boomer Assiason,
Speaker 1: And a week later, giving it some thought, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure I would change. So I feel pretty good that
Speaker 1: off the top of my head, that's what I came
Speaker 1: up with as my top five. But it gave me
Speaker 1: the inspiration to do some lists with you. So these
Speaker 1: aren't going to be off the top of our heads.
Speaker 1: I gave you the top advance and we're not going
Speaker 1: to do the top five. We're going to do the
Speaker 1: top three in a few different categories and we will
Speaker 1: each give our answers. So our first category is top
Speaker 1: three most memorable games. So these aren't necessarily favorite games,
Speaker 1: biggest wins. These are most memorable games. You go first,
Speaker 1: Blake Amabia, Jeff Blake's first NFL start when he almost
Speaker 1: beat the Super Bowl champion Cowboys. That's one. Corey Dylan
Speaker 1: going for two seventy eight against the Broncos. I mean
Speaker 1: that was unbelievable with two past completions all day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: two of fourteen. As as Dylan as I as still
Speaker 1: in a grades. Somebody will break the record and they'll
Speaker 1: keep breaking the record, but nobody will do what he did.
Speaker 1: That thing on twenty two carries with basically you know
Speaker 1: automatic quarterback that we played with on the streets. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and go passes is completed after the first quarter. Unbelievable. Yeah, no, right, um.
Speaker 1: And then so that okay, those two and then I
Speaker 1: tell you what the Zim game in Baltimore October eleventh,
Speaker 1: o nine, when Vicky zim Zim's wife had passed tragically
Speaker 1: after practice Thursday, and he still coached the game, and
Speaker 1: he went down there with the team and he was
Speaker 1: went down there and he coached the game and they
Speaker 1: and they shackled the Ravens. I mean they beat him.
Speaker 1: I mean they beat him at the end. It took him,
Speaker 1: you know, they held him, They held him the fourteen
Speaker 1: points and they had to win it on a touchdown
Speaker 1: drive at the end and Carson Palmer from to Andre
Speaker 1: Callwell with what twenty seconds left. That was unbelievable. So
Speaker 1: those are my three. The Blake game, the DWN game,
Speaker 1: and the Zoom game. All right, my three. And like
Speaker 1: I said, these are memorable. These are not necessarily fond memories.
Speaker 1: But I've got to go with the playoff loss to
Speaker 1: the Steelers in January of twenty sixteen. For this reason,
Speaker 1: montest Perfect made the interception and we thought the game
Speaker 1: was over. That's the happiest I have ever been in
Speaker 1: my life. Yea, more than my wedding day, more than
Speaker 1: the birth of Sam Horde. For about a ninety second span,
Speaker 1: that is literally the happiest I have ever been in
Speaker 1: my life. And then Jeremy Hill fumbled and so much
Speaker 1: for that, right, that's a good you know, I think
Speaker 1: that moment gave rise to Elizabeth Blackburn, who just came
Speaker 1: to the to the Canopy crazies. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth has come in in the last year. Mike's granddaughter,
Speaker 1: Troy and Troy and Katie's daughter and had some very
Speaker 1: really good fan engagement ideas. But I think they were
Speaker 1: born after talking to her, I think they're born out
Speaker 1: of those ninety seconds, because she's you know, she's Bengals
Speaker 1: through and through. And my kids were there and they
Speaker 1: were weeping, they were dancing and weeping any aisles, you know.
Speaker 1: I had a great first three graph score. He that
Speaker 1: never saw it a way to day. I did go
Speaker 1: back the next day. I got out my Runners watch
Speaker 1: and I timed in real time the amount of time
Speaker 1: that passed between the interception and the Jeremy Hill fumble,
Speaker 1: and off the top of my head, I think it
Speaker 1: was literally ninety two seconds. So I just wanted to
Speaker 1: know how long the happiest moment of my life lasted,
Speaker 1: and it was ninety two seconds. Doesn't it seem like
Speaker 1: it would have been longer than that though, interception, change
Speaker 1: of sides, the whole thing. Doesn't it feel like that
Speaker 1: would have been a few minutes. I guess they didn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess they didn't even go to commercial.
Speaker 1: I guess no commercial. Yeah, two seconds, all right? Number
Speaker 1: two on my list, though it's it's also Cincinnati, Pittsburgh
Speaker 1: and that would be the game two days before Christmas
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve when the Bengals made the playoffs and
Speaker 1: knocked the Steelers out on the same day at Hinesfield,
Speaker 1: Josh Brown with a kick with eight seconds to go.
Speaker 1: Because to me, that game epitomizes is what I love
Speaker 1: about pro football. It was a war Jo you know,
Speaker 1: Haymakers being thrown all day and his hits and plays
Speaker 1: on both sides. Reggie Nelson comes up with a pick,
Speaker 1: Andy completes the past the Hey, j Josh Brown kicks
Speaker 1: the field goal, and you know it's Christmas two days
Speaker 1: early and Lap going through that I was remembered the
Speaker 1: Lap going through the locker room, Geno Atkins, Geno Atkins,
Speaker 1: because that was Gino was huge that day. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: uh and you know, and that was a calling card game,
Speaker 1: how we you know, how we talked about this year
Speaker 1: Baltimore being the this team's calling card. That was the
Speaker 1: calling card I think for the Green Balton Bengals two
Speaker 1: thousand and eleven wasn't a fluke. Hey, they were going
Speaker 1: back to the play. They were going back to the play.
Speaker 1: That game put him back in the playoffs for the
Speaker 1: second spay year. Kind of like the kind of like
Speaker 1: the two thousand and four Ravens game with Carson in December,
Speaker 1: the twenty four point fourth quarter, that was the Marvin
Speaker 1: Lewis calling card. I think, so yeah, twenty twelve, that's
Speaker 1: that's that's a great one. And the third memorable game
Speaker 1: on my list, excuse me. August of twenty eleven, Detroit
Speaker 1: thirty four Cincinnati three. That was my first preseason game
Speaker 1: with Lap, and I just remember being on the bus
Speaker 1: after the game getting ready to drive to the airport
Speaker 1: in Detroit to fly home. I'm like so happy. This
Speaker 1: was fun. I know me and Lap are going to
Speaker 1: be a good tandem together. And I'm looking around at
Speaker 1: everybody else on the bus and everybody else has long faces.
Speaker 1: They're like, holy cow, we're gonna be terrible this year.
Speaker 1: Dalton's not ready. We only won four games of the
Speaker 1: year before, and I just like want to hug people
Speaker 1: because I'm so happy. Then I'm going to be doing
Speaker 1: an NFL teams games on the radio. And even though
Speaker 1: they got smoked in Detroit, that was that was a
Speaker 1: memorable night for me. Absolutely. I mean, you grew up
Speaker 1: in the you know, you grew up, grew up right
Speaker 1: outside Buffalo, and you know you grew up listening to
Speaker 1: those guys, and you know you're talking into a tape recorder,
Speaker 1: you know, and talking into a tape recorder when you
Speaker 1: were at eight night, ten years old. Yes, you'd be
Speaker 1: able to be able to do that. That had to be.
Speaker 1: You know, who care if Sue Sue put Andy on
Speaker 1: his head and I like snap his career? Correct? I was?
Speaker 1: I think that was his first pass in a preseason
Speaker 1: game and Dona Consue tried to kill him. Yeah, all right?
Speaker 1: Our second top three list, Top three Bengals interview subjects.
Speaker 1: Who do you have Boomer? Boomer Boomer? I would think no,
Speaker 1: you know Boomers Boomers at the top of that list.
Speaker 1: You're talking about players or just subjects, right? Just I
Speaker 1: mean players. I mean the guys that you either enjoyed
Speaker 1: talking to the most or who gave you the best stuff.
Speaker 1: Best best Bengals to interview Boomer, Willie Anderson, Andrew Whitworth.
Speaker 1: You know those are the uh none better? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine there'd be anybody, there'd be three guys
Speaker 1: better from any other franchise because those guys are those
Speaker 1: guys are a gold Standard. It was interesting that William
Speaker 1: Wick played the same position, you know, on the offensive line. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, when I grew I grew up in an
Speaker 1: era where the offensive lineman was supposed to be dumb.
Speaker 1: You know, those are the two smartest guys I've ever met,
Speaker 1: you know. And uh and of course Boomers Boomer, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, you know, Boomer Boom is another guy
Speaker 1: that billed me out. You know. Uh, he's a guy.
Speaker 1: And I was just talking with us to uh Steve
Speaker 1: Survey when we were down in New York. Uh Steve Survey,
Speaker 1: the great New York Post calumnist, and uh, you know whenever,
Speaker 1: you know, he could always get the Boomer. He could
Speaker 1: always seem to get the Boomer when he needed him.
Speaker 1: You know, Boomer would even call him, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: because he just knew that Servey needed him or then
Speaker 1: we need him. You know, Boomer, he's got a great
Speaker 1: feel for them. I mean, he's in the media anyway,
Speaker 1: and he he was an intern. I I think when
Speaker 1: he was in college he interned in the business. You know,
Speaker 1: he wanted to be a media guy if it didn't
Speaker 1: work out in sports. I want to say that he
Speaker 1: interned at the same station. I think that the Oprah
Speaker 1: Winfrey did at the same time. I want to say
Speaker 1: in Baltimore. I believe when he was in Maryland. I've
Speaker 1: got Whitworth on my list. Excuse me again, oddful, smart,
Speaker 1: totally got it, was always there when you needed him.
Speaker 1: I'd argue with Andrew Whitworth. Mike Daniels makes my list now. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: because he's been on the practice squad this year, we
Speaker 1: haven't really been talking to him. I did the week
Speaker 1: before Bengals played Green Bay. That was a good saw
Speaker 1: by the way, that that was an excellent call. I
Speaker 1: should have done that. He was good. He was good.
Speaker 1: I think Mike Daniels is going to be a broadcasting star.
Speaker 1: You know, he was a good enough player that networks
Speaker 1: will want him. You know, went to a Pro Bowl,
Speaker 1: he was on the top one hundred list a few times.
Speaker 1: And he's just got great feel. He's always enthusiastic, he's
Speaker 1: got a good sense of humor. I think Mike Daniels
Speaker 1: has a chance to being of being a really prominent broadcaster.
Speaker 1: And then my third always surprises people, Adam Jones, because
Speaker 1: he is the one Bengal who is truly unfiltered incapable
Speaker 1: of just you know, spewing cliches and doing kind of
Speaker 1: the bull Durham interview. He just shot you straight. Wasn't
Speaker 1: always the best thing for him to do, but it
Speaker 1: was always fun to be on the other end because
Speaker 1: you never quite knew what you're going to get. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was some other he's He's probably at the top
Speaker 1: of a of a bunch of guys that didn't use
Speaker 1: a filter. And you know, you try to protect those
Speaker 1: guys too if they go, if they overdo it, you
Speaker 1: do try. You can't protect them nowadays. You know, back
Speaker 1: in the day you could if you thought he kind
Speaker 1: of went, if you thought, you know, I think we've
Speaker 1: both been in that situation where boy, I'd love to
Speaker 1: use this, but it's just going to kill the guy, right,
Speaker 1: You know, there have been there. You know. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you another guy who could shoot you straight two is
Speaker 1: TJ houshman Zada. He would he would say stuff that
Speaker 1: would kind of make it. I don't know, you sure
Speaker 1: you wanted Harmon to read that, you know, but Tjo
Speaker 1: was a good one you TJ would, uh, he was.
Speaker 1: He was a classic unfilter as well, no question, all right,
Speaker 1: how about top three underappreciated Bengals players. No, for some reason,
Speaker 1: when I saw that, the kickers came to mind, and
Speaker 1: and two guys came to mind, Jim Breach and Doug Pelfrey.
Speaker 1: Jim Breech was the Super Bowl kicker, won a lot
Speaker 1: of big games. I mean, got the record right nine
Speaker 1: for nine and overtime over the right about that that's
Speaker 1: just huge. I mean, every other week there's a guy
Speaker 1: winking the goal post that uh, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: and this guy, this guy did it. This guy never
Speaker 1: missed an overtime pretty good. And Pelfrey played on a
Speaker 1: very tough stretch in Bengals history in the nineties from
Speaker 1: ninety four to like ninety six. He won a third
Speaker 1: of their games the gun, you know, which is to me,
Speaker 1: that's kind of you never really think. I went back
Speaker 1: when I when when when McPherson, uh and Mason Crosby
Speaker 1: had their thing in the Green Bay game. I went
Speaker 1: back and talked to Pelfrey, who was who. By the way,
Speaker 1: I think he's like the rest of us. He thinks
Speaker 1: McPherson is going to be the greatest kicker in Bengals history. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know, you just kind of that made me
Speaker 1: think of how how good Doug had been. And I
Speaker 1: so those two guys, I think lead my at least
Speaker 1: appreciate it. And then I think, you know, probably you'd
Speaker 1: have to go with either James Brooks or Rodney Holman
Speaker 1: there the U. I mean, Holman was the best all
Speaker 1: around tight end that's ever been here, and with you know,
Speaker 1: with Trump, Trump, he probably be in a close second.
Speaker 1: And you know, Brooks was, Brooks was, Brooks was unbelievable
Speaker 1: for a four year stretch. I'm gonna start with Andy
Speaker 1: for obvious reasons. You know, I'm not jesting. He was
Speaker 1: the greatest quarterback in Bengals history. He had his deficiencies,
Speaker 1: but he was never truly appreciated until he was on
Speaker 1: his way out the door. While he was leading the
Speaker 1: Bengals to five straight playoff appearances, it seemed like everybody
Speaker 1: was always looking to try to get somebody better. And
Speaker 1: then when it was clear that his tenure in Cincinnati
Speaker 1: was going to end, he was loved. What a shame,
Speaker 1: What a shame that he wasn't embraced when he was
Speaker 1: at his peak. No Bengal quarterback has done what he's
Speaker 1: done five in a row, five playoffs in a row.
Speaker 1: I mean that's not Kenny, not Boomer, not Casson, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean that's you know, I mean, and
Speaker 1: yeah he did. He took a lot of grief. My
Speaker 1: second one actually would be somebody that you mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: Corey Dillon. I mean, as great as Corey was, he
Speaker 1: has a Hall of Fame resume and he won't get in.
Speaker 1: I mean you know this better than I do from
Speaker 1: being on the committee because of his personality, which is
Speaker 1: a shame. He ran for more and oj he had
Speaker 1: two of the best games in history. As soon as
Speaker 1: he was on a good team. He was the best
Speaker 1: player on a Super Bowl team. He checks everything on
Speaker 1: the list except for being prickly with the media. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think. Plus he was on bad I think he's
Speaker 1: one of these many guys to pay the price for
Speaker 1: being on a bad team, you know, and they just
Speaker 1: don't get those the players on And I've said this
Speaker 1: admiseum the Hall of Fame has too many good players
Speaker 1: on great teams and not enough great players who deserved
Speaker 1: me in from bad or mediocre teams. Dylan and Willie
Speaker 1: Anderson are the centerpieces for that. I'm gonna cheat for
Speaker 1: my third person, I'm gonna say Marvin because by the
Speaker 1: time Marvin was let go or mutual decision, however, do
Speaker 1: you want to phrase that he was let go, all
Speaker 1: people could talk about was the O and seven playoff record,
Speaker 1: and no one remembered what it was like before he
Speaker 1: took the job in two thousand and three. I mean,
Speaker 1: to consistently have the Bengals contend and the toughest division
Speaker 1: in the NFL was a hack of an accomplican. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you're exactly right. I mean this guy, uh,
Speaker 1: he brought he brought the Bengals into the NFL and
Speaker 1: of the twenty first century with his sheer will of personality. Um.
Speaker 1: And that for that he should be on I mean,
Speaker 1: if he's not on Bengals Model Rushmore, then he would
Speaker 1: be on the He's on the Seven Blocks of Granite.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's that. You know, he's a top ten
Speaker 1: figure in franchise history, you know. Um. I think also too,
Speaker 1: people don't people forget, um, he won two division titles
Speaker 1: with two different quarterbacks and I don't know how many
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, that's that's that's that's a pretty
Speaker 1: good feat. Uh, And I you know it shows you
Speaker 1: his staying power. I think his skill as a communicator
Speaker 1: and getting them all, you know, and getting in and
Speaker 1: finding finding players and motivating them, I think is a
Speaker 1: And then he was a great. Uh he was. He
Speaker 1: was a great. He was a great recruiter. He was
Speaker 1: you know, he was the franchise as best recruiters. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's a that's a good pick. He did
Speaker 1: cheat at that. You went to the coach. It's good though.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, hey, look the estros they got into
Speaker 1: the world. See, I'm banging on a trash can. Whatever
Speaker 1: it takes. All right, our final top three, top three
Speaker 1: what ifs enfranchise history. We could do thirty apiece in
Speaker 1: this one, but we're each going to pick out three. Yep,
Speaker 1: I go feel free, Okay. Louis Phillips catches the interception,
Speaker 1: Joe Montana's interception. Uh, Jeremy Jeremy Hill doesn't fumble the ball.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is easy stuff, right, Uh. And geez,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I got I think there. I think
Speaker 1: everything else pills and compare some of those two because
Speaker 1: those are I don't want to say life changing, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll say life changing. Okay, Okay, And if Shane Graham
Speaker 1: makes the overtime, makes the kick at the gun against
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh in OH six. That's a real life changer. They
Speaker 1: go to the playoffs two years in a row, OH
Speaker 1: seven and O eight, probably, you know, maybe don't happen.
Speaker 1: I'd like to see, you know how that old five
Speaker 1: team it didn't really it didn't really carry over like
Speaker 1: they thought because they didn't make it an six seven
Speaker 1: eight underachieved? But what if they go to the playoffs
Speaker 1: two years in a row? So those are my thought. Three?
Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to the way back machine. Greg
Speaker 1: Cook's injury, Yeah, biggest what if enfranchise history? So Bill
Speaker 1: Walsh famously said he was the most talented quarterback he
Speaker 1: ever coached. Joe Montana turned out to be pretty good.
Speaker 1: I wonder what a healthy Greg Cook and Paul Brown
Speaker 1: if that would have been Belichick and Brady. I mean,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have won six Super Bowls? But would they
Speaker 1: have won two? Would Paul have kept coaching past seventy five?
Speaker 1: He wasn't that old? I mean, if he had the
Speaker 1: best quarterback in the NFL, would they have been the
Speaker 1: Steelers of the nineteen seventies? Oh, Mike Brown thinks so Mike.
Speaker 1: Mike is pretty sure that Cook was the best you
Speaker 1: ever saw. For a second one. I'm also going to
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, but before the Jeremy Hill fumble. I'm going
Speaker 1: to say the Andy Dalton broken thumb because they were
Speaker 1: the best team in the NFL to that point, or
Speaker 1: at least one of them. They would have been the
Speaker 1: number one playoff seed in the AFC at the time
Speaker 1: at ten and two, he breaks his thumb. AJ mccaron
Speaker 1: did a heck of a job down the stretch, but
Speaker 1: they averaged seven fewer points with him at quarterback than
Speaker 1: they did before Andy got hurt and he was in
Speaker 1: the discussion for MVP. I think they went a home
Speaker 1: playoff game against the Steelers with Andy Dalton playing instead
Speaker 1: of AJ, because even though AJ led them to take
Speaker 1: the lead with less and two minutes to go, we
Speaker 1: really struggled for the first three quarters of that game.
Speaker 1: So the Andy Andy broken thumb is on my list.
Speaker 1: That's a go. I think I would have like to
Speaker 1: have played the Jets. I think I liked would have
Speaker 1: liked to have had McCarron against the Jets that game.
Speaker 1: I think didn't the Jets have if the Jets won.
Speaker 1: I think the Steelers were up. I think the final
Speaker 1: game between Steelers and Jets, I don't. I don't know
Speaker 1: who it was between the I think the Jets had
Speaker 1: to win. Fitz he had to win and they didn't.
Speaker 1: That's right, I think. Yeah, So forgetting who they who,
Speaker 1: they lost too. But that's that gave the Steelers the
Speaker 1: final playoff spot because the Jets lost their regular season
Speaker 1: finale would have been it would have been mccaren vers
Speaker 1: Fitzy and a great Dalton backup verse, Carson backup right.
Speaker 1: And for my third and final one who we're thinking
Speaker 1: same very similarly. So you take the Billups interception drop
Speaker 1: and then Joe Montana threw a touchdown pass on the
Speaker 1: next play, not on the final drop with some people
Speaker 1: remember inaccurately, but earlier in the fourth quarter of that game.
Speaker 1: But I'll take crum Ride breaking his leg. You know,
Speaker 1: short shortly into that Super Bowl. You've got the best
Speaker 1: defensive interior alignment and franchise history right up there with Gino.
Speaker 1: I mean, if he plays that whole game, do the
Speaker 1: forty nine Ers have any chance of marching down the
Speaker 1: field on the final drive to lead to Montana to Taylor,
Speaker 1: probably not out of crum rides getting in Joe Montana's
Speaker 1: face every other pass drop. Some would say what if
Speaker 1: a goal ad blitz? Right? Some what if in low
Speaker 1: bullet blitzer the last five? Or on the fortieth anniversary?
Speaker 1: Why don't we ask what if the Bengals had scored
Speaker 1: on the goal lines, on the goal line stand the
Speaker 1: Niners staged in the Pontiac Do they do they pull
Speaker 1: off one of the greatest comeback? Do they pull off
Speaker 1: the Patriots Falcons come back forty years earlier? If they
Speaker 1: punch it in there? Neither one of us shows not
Speaker 1: taking the Saints offer for the entire draft. To take
Speaker 1: take that one's too painful, a whole lot. If to
Speaker 1: take a Killy Smith instead, well, you know what, and
Speaker 1: probably it would have been better off taking a deal
Speaker 1: because you wouldn't have taken Achille. But you know the Saints,
Speaker 1: you know you got seven guys, and I think what
Speaker 1: Ricky Williams right, that's what you would have got him,
Speaker 1: that you would have got. I mean, you would have
Speaker 1: got their whole draft, right, you know, it would have
Speaker 1: been like seven just guys. Maybe who knows, You never know.
Speaker 1: The Redskins did get Champ Bailey from the Redskins made
Speaker 1: the trade, and they wound up with champ Bailey as
Speaker 1: the best player of the ones they selected, though he
Speaker 1: was obviously great, but you never know, the Bengals might
Speaker 1: not have taken Champile. Yeah, I mean and and great. Okay,
Speaker 1: you gave us your draft, but how many guys are
Speaker 1: how many drafted guys are really going to come out
Speaker 1: worth that third? Right? Right? All right? We're gonna wrap
Speaker 1: this up with something that I typically do when I'm
Speaker 1: doing I find facts interviews during the course of the week,
Speaker 1: A few wild card categories for Jeff Hobson, who is
Speaker 1: your all time favorite athlete in any sport? And why
Speaker 1: Tony Knnigliero. He was a Boston kid hit a home
Speaker 1: run in his first hit back at Fenway Pack. He
Speaker 1: was nineteen years old, I believe, the youngest American League
Speaker 1: home run champion. Everything. I was not mattinee Idol. He
Speaker 1: could sing, but he did what every Boston kid wanted
Speaker 1: to do. I mean, this guy, he was living a
Speaker 1: dream and then he had everything, and then suddenly he
Speaker 1: had nothing. He got hit in the eye, he almost
Speaker 1: get killed. He missed a year, and he came back
Speaker 1: opening Day nineteen sixty nine hit I think he scored
Speaker 1: the tying run in the ninth in Baltimore and hit
Speaker 1: a two run homer I think in the tenth to
Speaker 1: win it, and his first came back. I mean, he
Speaker 1: came back. I mean, the guy came back in sixty nine,
Speaker 1: played two more years, the eye failed him again, and
Speaker 1: then he came back like four years later. He actually
Speaker 1: won a roster spot with his seventy five Red Sox.
Speaker 1: A lot of people forget that, and he finally retired
Speaker 1: after he pulled a hamstring in May. But to me,
Speaker 1: he he didn't quit, you know, I mean, he just
Speaker 1: he kept coming back. I mean, the guy had everything
Speaker 1: and then it was gone, and he was just I
Speaker 1: mean to be you know, to get hit in the
Speaker 1: face like that and then to come back. And he
Speaker 1: hit twenty homers in his first year back, and then
Speaker 1: he hit thirty six homers year after that after nearly
Speaker 1: getting killed. I don't know. To me, he you know,
Speaker 1: one of my great thrills was somehow I ended up.
Speaker 1: I went to the first two games at the seventy
Speaker 1: five playoffs, and somehow he was popped out of a
Speaker 1: crowd and I said, Tony, I just saw him there,
Speaker 1: and he goes, what And I just said, I just
Speaker 1: want to shake his hand. And that's the only time
Speaker 1: I ever got the only time I ever got to see.
Speaker 1: That's still your Twitter image the Sport illustrated cover of
Speaker 1: his Black Eye. Yeah, that's still to me. You know,
Speaker 1: the guy came back. Man, he didn't eat, didn't quit. Awesome.
Speaker 1: What's your all time favorite book? Ball four? No question? Uh?
Speaker 1: That came out in nineteen seventy. I was eleven years old,
Speaker 1: probably pretty pretty racy for eleven. Well, my grandparents gave
Speaker 1: it to me too, so you know, which's amazing, which
Speaker 1: is amazing still inscribed. I got it still inscribed, And
Speaker 1: of course they obviously didn't realize, you know, if they
Speaker 1: had seen May twenty seconds, but uh what he said
Speaker 1: to sell Magan, you know, they wouldn't have bought. They
Speaker 1: wouldn't have bought the book. You know. Uh, probably learned
Speaker 1: more about the birds and the bees reading that them,
Speaker 1: you know, uh than the conversation with Roy Hobson, you know,
Speaker 1: so uh so that you know, and it was just
Speaker 1: it really you know, it could have turned you off
Speaker 1: I guess if you were. But it was just so.
Speaker 1: It was funny. It was these guys were human beings,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean I still remember the stories in there.
Speaker 1: It was so and actually it was it was really
Speaker 1: I mean it was Bouten wrote the book. Jim Boughten, obviously,
Speaker 1: but it was Jim Boughten talking in the tape machine
Speaker 1: with a great insight. But it was Leonard Scheckter who
Speaker 1: the editor, who wrote it and put it together and genius,
Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, no, no, I mean I still
Speaker 1: remember the anecdotes, or still sit with me today. I
Speaker 1: remember talking to John Kennedy was a character. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was in that book. He was a suit. He
Speaker 1: was a played for the Pilots. Later became super sub
Speaker 1: with the Red Sox in the early seventies. Became a
Speaker 1: scout for the Red Sox. And I was working in May,
Speaker 1: and I was working in May and I was a
Speaker 1: sports columnist. He came a scout a game. So we
Speaker 1: got to talking and chatting with him on did your
Speaker 1: Greeny kick in yet? You know, you know, John Kennedy
Speaker 1: talk to me for the rest of the later left
Speaker 1: in that inning at least, probably not a fond memory
Speaker 1: for him having that exposed in the book. But if
Speaker 1: you go back and you look at ball far, I
Speaker 1: think it was John Kennedy said, Hey, my Greeny hadn't
Speaker 1: kicked in yet or something. I can still remember this stuff.
Speaker 1: You know that book. Did that book influential decision to
Speaker 1: get into this business, probably one of them. But I
Speaker 1: think the biggest influence was just waking up every day
Speaker 1: and reading the reading the Boston papers. You know, my
Speaker 1: I you know, we had to sneak in the Boston
Speaker 1: Herald at the time when I was coming of age,
Speaker 1: you know, eight nineteen years old. The Herald had the
Speaker 1: best sports section the Boston Globe. But the Boston Globe
Speaker 1: yet over had yet to overtake them with the young
Speaker 1: guns of McDonough and Gammons and month Field, so they
Speaker 1: had they still had Tim Morgan and guys like that
Speaker 1: or Bill Listen, you know, the Herald did, but we couldn't.
Speaker 1: My father and I had to sneak in the Herald
Speaker 1: because there was a publican paper that had backed Nixon,
Speaker 1: and my mother didn't want it in the house, so
Speaker 1: we had to we had to seek in the Herald
Speaker 1: sports section. The Globe was fine. We had what we
Speaker 1: had both the Morning Globe and the Evening Globe. So
Speaker 1: I was able to that. I think that well, flip
Speaker 1: didn't hurt, But it was the newspapers, the Boston newspapers.
Speaker 1: They got me in all right. Last category for a
Speaker 1: Butch Hobson. If you can meet anybody in history, athlete, actor, statesman,
Speaker 1: whoever it might be, who would that person be, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be able to talk by Jackson Common,
Speaker 1: who went with Leon L. Da Vinci. That was that
Speaker 1: was very impressive there what I had. I had to
Speaker 1: struggle there, you know, Hordy. But I came down with
Speaker 1: John Lewis closely eked out John Kennedy. My ultimate would
Speaker 1: be if I could have a coffee with John Lewis
Speaker 1: and Jack Kennedy would be my ultimate. But if I
Speaker 1: if it's gonna be one, it's gonna be John Lewis,
Speaker 1: the late congressman from Georgia, who was such a who
Speaker 1: was a freedom writer and it was such a huge
Speaker 1: factor in the civil rights movement. I mean, this guy
Speaker 1: literally gave his gave his blood on the bridge at
Speaker 1: Edmund Pettis, And I guess that's something that I would
Speaker 1: That's another story I would put in my next book.
Speaker 1: I would hope would be Michael Johnson going back to Selma, Alabama,
Speaker 1: across the bridge with Barack Obama. That's pretty good. But
Speaker 1: Lewis was in on that too, and on that, you know,
Speaker 1: on that, I think it was the It would have
Speaker 1: been the fiftieth I guess in twenty fifteen of the March.
Speaker 1: But yeah, John Lewis, I mean, he was a guy.
Speaker 1: He grew up a poor in Alabama, and he would
Speaker 1: he wanted to be a preacher, and he would preach
Speaker 1: to the chickens in the in the farmhouse, you know,
Speaker 1: and and he rose to become you know, he was
Speaker 1: one of the speakers in the match out Washington, and
Speaker 1: it was such a vaulatile speech that Martin Luther King
Speaker 1: Junior had to pull him aside at the moment the
Speaker 1: Wink Memorial and had to go had to edit his
Speaker 1: speech there and take out what he thought was a
Speaker 1: little bit in flam to. So, yeah, I'd like to
Speaker 1: I'd like to talk to John Lewis about that. What
Speaker 1: exactly the doctor King and he talked about in the
Speaker 1: moments before he stepped to the left turn in the March. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's John Lewis, my guy. Yeah, it's a great, great selection,
Speaker 1: really good stuff. This has been fun, but I really
Speaker 1: appreciate It's no Leonardo division. But leave it to Horny
Speaker 1: to get I'll tell you, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you appear on the website because you're so
Speaker 1: good at what you do. You make me compete with you.
Speaker 1: I get I get mad when I see you have
Speaker 1: a guy that I should have had, or a topic
Speaker 1: I should have had. You're one of the best. I'm
Speaker 1: glad you're here because you keep me, you keep me,
Speaker 1: you keep me going. I'm trying to beat you. Well,
Speaker 1: we're all on the same team. And I appreciate the
Speaker 1: fact that you are so competitive that you want to
Speaker 1: be pushed every day. I think that's a wonderful trait
Speaker 1: we share. That competition is one of the best things
Speaker 1: about this job. The desire try to have something first
Speaker 1: or ba every day is one of the things that
Speaker 1: makes us so much fun. Honestly, I've been in this
Speaker 1: thing for forty years and one of the best things
Speaker 1: about it was I met you, and I can call
Speaker 1: my friend. And I mean that from one of my
Speaker 1: heart right there with you, and sometime we'll do a
Speaker 1: podcast about the night we spent together in a minor
Speaker 1: league broadcasting booth. I think that's one. I think that
Speaker 1: the one, and we should get Brad Pitt in there too,
Speaker 1: in the role of Billy Bean. Yeah. I still don't
Speaker 1: know what it was. You are off the hot seat.
Speaker 1: Have a great weekend. I will see you in Paul
Speaker 1: Brown Stadium next week. Hort. I know you don't have
Speaker 1: a Bengals call, but I always like to tell you
Speaker 1: have a good call with the Bearcatt Hi. Thanks to
Speaker 1: Jeff Hobson Man. That's going to do it. For this
Speaker 1: episode of the Bengals Booth podcast, brought to you by
Speaker 1: Ultimate Bengals, the free to play Next Level Fantasy Football game,
Speaker 1: downloaded now from the App Store and Google Play. If
Speaker 1: you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast
Speaker 1: and if you have a minute, give it a rating
Speaker 1: or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us.
Speaker 1: I'm Dan Horde, and thanks for listening to the Bengals
Speaker 1: boot Podcast.