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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to use Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 3: My name is Robert Lamb and I am Joe McCormick,

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Speaker 3: and we're back the second part in our series on

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Speaker 3: the Dog Days of Summer and the dog Star Serious,

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Speaker 3: from which the dog Days get their name. So in

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Speaker 3: part one of the series, we started off talking about

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Speaker 3: childhood recollections of hearing this phrase the dog Days of

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Speaker 3: Summer without knowing what it meant or where it came from.

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Speaker 3: And it turns out that the dog Days do not

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Speaker 3: get their name from the image of dogs panting in

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Speaker 3: the heat, but instead from the astrology of the ancient Egyptians, Greeks,

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Speaker 3: and Romans, who linked the hottest part of summer to

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Speaker 3: the haliacal rising of the star Serious, the brightest star

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Speaker 3: in the night sky and the brightest star in the

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Speaker 3: constellation Canus Major, which the Greeks and Romans linked to

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Speaker 3: the mythic huntsman Orion. Canus Major and Canus Minor were

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Speaker 3: Orion's hunting dogs. So many ancient peoples thought that when

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Speaker 3: Sirius rose in conjunction with the sun, when this haliacal

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Speaker 3: rising happened in the middle or late part of summer.

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Speaker 3: The star added its heat to the heat of the sun,

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Speaker 3: so it's like turning on a second burner under the pan,

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Speaker 3: and this is what made the weeks of Midsummer dangerously

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Speaker 3: hot last time. We also talked a lot about the

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Speaker 3: meaning of the Dog Star in ancient literature, such as

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Speaker 3: the Iliad, where Homer repeatedly invokes it as a symbol

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Speaker 3: of both brilliance and radiance, but also as a death star,

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Speaker 3: an omen of doom and destruction. And we got into

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Speaker 3: the use of the dog days of Summer in other

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Speaker 3: poems and songs as well, including some digressions about Don

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Speaker 3: Henley and Dylan Thomas. I guess the Don Henley reference

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Speaker 3: is indirect. It's not a direct quote, but you know,

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Speaker 3: Boys of Summer and that's got a lot of dog

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Speaker 3: gets into some of the same vibes. Yeah, yeah, Dog

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Speaker 3: Days in it. And then we also discussed the Dog

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Speaker 3: Star as a star Serious A, which is actually part

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Speaker 3: of a binary star system with the smaller white dwarf

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Speaker 3: Serious B. We got into a number of fascinating things

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Speaker 3: about the star itself and the astronomy history around it,

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Speaker 3: like how long will it remain the brightest star in

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Speaker 3: Earth's night sky? Why ancient authors might have described it

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Speaker 3: as a different color than it appears today, and so forth.

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Speaker 3: So if you haven't heard part one, please go back

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Speaker 3: listen to that first. But today we're here to keep

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Speaker 3: the dog days rolling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I thought i'd throw in a quick short

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Speaker 2: poem by Robert Frost here. The poem Canus Major. This

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Speaker 2: is one I'd kind of forgotten about, but I distinctly

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Speaker 2: remember now reading it as a kid in like ENGL class,

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Speaker 2: and I remember, I think I had to memorize this one,

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Speaker 2: or I had to like write it out and do

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Speaker 2: a little drawling for it or something. It is. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna say it is not particularly deep as far as

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Speaker 2: serious related poetry or Robert Frost's poems go, but it's

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Speaker 2: still kind of delightful, and it also is kind of

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Speaker 2: a counter note to some of like the deeper, kind

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Speaker 2: of darker contemplations we've touched on already. It goes as follows,

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Speaker 2: the great overdog, that heavenly beast with a star in

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Speaker 2: one eye, gives a leap in the east. He dances

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Speaker 2: upright all the way to the west, and never once

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Speaker 2: drops on his four feet to rest. I'm a poor underdog,

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Speaker 2: but tonight I will bark with the great overdog that

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Speaker 2: romps through the dark.

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Speaker 3: Very nice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm assuming he's talking about turning into a were

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Speaker 2: wolf for a wear dog of some sort back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it could could well be. I mean, what is

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Speaker 3: he doing in those woods? Dark and deep?

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Speaker 2: And you know he's just running about chasing squirrels all

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Speaker 2: fours That's what I'm man.

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Speaker 3: Goes into the woods, drinks the water from a wolf's pawprint,

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Speaker 3: and there you go.

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Speaker 2: There you go. That's how it works. But I also

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Speaker 2: have some more things I want to add regarding Don

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Speaker 2: Henley and some of the other songs that in poems

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Speaker 2: that we mentioned in the last episode. So, first of all,

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Speaker 2: in the last episode, in addition to two discussions of

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Speaker 2: Don Henley's The Boys of Summer and the Dylan Thomas

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Speaker 2: poem I see the Boys of Summer, I also mentioned

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Speaker 2: in passing landa del Ray's excellent twenty twelve song Summertime

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Speaker 2: Sadness off of the album Born to Die, generally considered

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Speaker 2: I think to be one of her more electronic leaning albums,

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Speaker 2: though it would probably be way too strong to say, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is an electronic album, but you know, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of electronic notes there.

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Speaker 3: I'm not super familiar with Lana del Rey, but is

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Speaker 3: this the album that the single Video Games is from.

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Speaker 2: I think it is, I have to admit to I'm

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Speaker 2: more of a like a drop been on particular tracks

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Speaker 2: listening a listener of Delray's material. But this album had

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Speaker 2: both Summertime Sadness and Blue Jeans, which is another favorite

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Speaker 2: of mine. Off this album particularly, there's a remix of

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Speaker 2: it from Sims and Bell that features Azalia Banks, so

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Speaker 2: it has this like very heavy driving synth added to it,

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Speaker 2: and also a rap bridge from Banks, and I occasionally

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Speaker 2: will pull this track up and listen to it. It's

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Speaker 2: got a great vibe, but at any rate, Summertime Sadness

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Speaker 2: great track. It's one of these that my mind often

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Speaker 2: turns to during the dog days of summer. There's also

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Speaker 2: this side tangent that's just just confined to me and

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Speaker 2: my family where we will sing the song and say

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Speaker 2: I've got those summertime summertime pumpkins. Discussing the volunteer pumpkins

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Speaker 2: that will pop up in our garden emerging from the

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Speaker 2: remains of the composts from previous years. But that is

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Speaker 2: summertime sadness. Great song, and it is worth noting that

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Speaker 2: summertime sadness does exist in the form of summer onset

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Speaker 2: seasonal effective disorder. Not exactly what the song is about,

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Speaker 2: but there is a connection here. So I was reading

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Speaker 2: a little bit about that, you know, because this does

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Speaker 2: kind of relate to this idea of there being certain

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Speaker 2: moods that settle in during this time, during the hottest months,

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Speaker 2: or maybe like in the period immediately after, and I

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Speaker 2: found that. Stephanie Rhoades wrote an article about it in

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen for Michigan Medicine at the University of Michigan,

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Speaker 2: pointing out that, yeah, the summer onset seasonal effective disorder

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Speaker 2: is less common than fall and winter onset seasonal effective disorder,

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Speaker 2: but it does exist. And she writes that some of

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Speaker 2: the frequent triggers that are associated with summer include schedule changes.

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Speaker 2: This is a you know, suddenly you have the sort

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Speaker 2: of routine you're going through. Maybe it has to do

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Speaker 2: with your work or your school or the school schedule

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Speaker 2: for you know, a child in your life, but whatever

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Speaker 2: the case, suddenly things are different. That's going to shake

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Speaker 2: things up a little bit. Likewise, you may be going

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Speaker 2: on vacation. Vacation, of course, is a way to get

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Speaker 2: away from a lot of your troubles, but vacation treats

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Speaker 2: everyone differently. In different sorts of vacation treat everyone differently.

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Speaker 2: So setting on the beach reading a good book, that

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Speaker 2: might be your pure escape, but it might also give

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Speaker 2: you maybe a little bit too much time to contemplate

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Speaker 2: things at the you know, the edge of the world

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Speaker 2: where the ocean meets the beach.

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Speaker 3: At the other end of the spectrum, if you're in

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Speaker 3: a different type of vacationing family culture, you might be

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Speaker 3: trying to pack too much into a vacation. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: don't know if you've experienced that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've experienced both sides, vacations where way

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Speaker 2: too much is packed in and maybe not enough is

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Speaker 2: packed in. So I mean it's I think it's It

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Speaker 2: is important to note you can be very much the

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Speaker 2: kind of person that you know that enjoys a vacation.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't mean you're anti vacation, but you shake things up,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, it can it can serve as a trigger

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Speaker 2: for certain you know, depressive states or anxious states and

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Speaker 2: so forth. On top of this, Roades also points out

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Speaker 2: that you're going to have obviously changes in daylight patterns,

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Speaker 2: so the days are going to get longer. This can

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Speaker 2: impact sleep schedules, like you might be joy overjoyed that

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Speaker 2: the days are so long, but also it you know,

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Speaker 2: it might influence you that like, wow, it's it should

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Speaker 2: be just fully nighttime right now, right, but the sun

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Speaker 2: is still out. How am I supposed to react to that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And then on top of that, there's just various psychosocial

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Speaker 2: issues that can come into place, such as recent life changes,

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Speaker 2: which of course may or may not have anything to

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Speaker 2: do with summer. And I also want to note this

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Speaker 2: is mostly from my personal observation, not from this article,

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Speaker 2: but I think summer is also highly susceptible to that

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Speaker 2: same level of heightened expectations for happiness enjoy that you

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Speaker 2: encounter with Christmas. You know, you're hit with all of

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Speaker 2: this media advertisements trying to sell you things that are

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Speaker 2: aligned with summer. And you know, what if I'm not

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Speaker 2: having a hot girl summer, What if I don't feel

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Speaker 2: like beach boys lyrics coursing through my veins?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, extremely true that it can really get you down

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Speaker 3: when you are not feeling great and you feel like

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Speaker 3: there are forces telling you that you should be feeling good,

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Speaker 3: like you're having a great time right now. Isn't this

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Speaker 3: great and you're not feeling it, It kind of makes

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Speaker 3: it even worse.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe you go on social media and now you're

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Speaker 2: hit with well, summertime themed advertisements as well as other

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Speaker 2: people's summer pictures, which, again, as we've touched on, how

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Speaker 2: many times are the curated extremes extreme expressions of whatever

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Speaker 2: is going on? So yeah, all that can come into play,

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Speaker 2: let's see. I also looked around a little bit for

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Speaker 2: other poetic examples of summer sadness summertime sadness, and there's

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Speaker 2: actually a poem from us to fun marrow May who

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Speaker 2: lived eighteen forty two through eighteen ninety eight, titled Summer

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Speaker 2: Sadness and I want to read just a part of

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Speaker 2: this from this is translated from the French, of course,

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Speaker 2: but it is a poem that really does seem to

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Speaker 2: capture this idea of like being on the beach, being

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Speaker 2: in like what is otherwise a happy setting, surrounded you

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Speaker 2: know there was someone you love even and still feeling

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Speaker 2: this sadness creep in where it should not be allowed

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Speaker 2: to be surely, but I'm just going to read the

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Speaker 2: first two stanzas this is, this is a nice taste.

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Speaker 2: The sun on the sand, Oh, sleeping wrestler warms, a

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Speaker 2: languid bath in the gold of your hair, melting the

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Speaker 2: incense on your hostile features, mixing an amorous liquid with

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Speaker 2: the tears. The immutable calm of this white burning Oh

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Speaker 2: my fearful kisses makes you say, sadly, will we ever

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Speaker 2: be one mummified winding under the ancient sands and palm?

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy? Mm So I like it. I wasn't

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Speaker 2: super familiar with this poet either, but clearly, you know

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Speaker 2: this is something that people have been running into for

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Speaker 2: quite a while.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, romantic awkwardness on a beach. That's it shows up

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Speaker 3: in other poems as well. I'm thinking of the kind

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Speaker 3: of it's not explicit, but the subtext in Matthew Arnold's

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Speaker 3: Dover Beach.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Various paintings, for sure, also seem to

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Speaker 2: have this kind of vibe. You know, you see like

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Speaker 2: a you know, a landscape of a beach and it

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Speaker 2: you know it looks. It can at once be inviting,

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Speaker 2: like I want to be there, but also are these

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Speaker 2: people happy? What are they feeling? How do they feel?

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Speaker 2: How would I truly feel if I was.

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Speaker 3: There feeling like they're supposed to be happy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then also I did end up digging back

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Speaker 2: around a little bit regarding The Boys of Summer from

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Speaker 2: Don Henley, and yeah, and it's I'm gonna have to

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Speaker 2: go back on some of the things I said about it.

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Speaker 2: But first of all, I did find some interview segments

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Speaker 2: where he does specifically cite Dylan Thomas's I see the

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Speaker 2: Boys of Summer as a core inspiration here.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's kind of surprising to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I have to point out that in some cases,

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Speaker 2: you'll look online and you'll see people state that the

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Speaker 2: best selling nineteen seventy two baseball book The Boys of

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Speaker 2: Summer by Roger Kahn was the inspiration, but Henley, in

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Speaker 2: an interview stated that, yeah, despite being a baseball fan,

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Speaker 2: he'd never read that book, and the inspiration is Thomas. Here.

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Speaker 2: I should also point out Henley wrote the lyrics the

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Speaker 2: music is by Mike Campbell of Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.

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Speaker 2: Petty actually passed on the demo, you know, the lyricless

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Speaker 2: demo for this song, and then he ended up shopping

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Speaker 2: it to Don Henley and he's the Campbell's talked about

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Speaker 2: it in interviews as well, where he's like, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: wasn't sure that Henley even liked it. He's like, well,

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Speaker 2: let me see what I can make it. And then

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Speaker 2: he came back and he's like, I think I've written

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Speaker 2: the best song in my career to your music. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it's you know, a strong case could be made

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Speaker 2: that that is what exactly what happened.

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Speaker 3: Trying to imagine it as a Tom Petty song, it's

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Speaker 3: not really working for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it would have been great,

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Speaker 2: you know, Tom Petty was great, but yeah, Henley brings

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Speaker 2: a specific energy to it, you know, in Henley's vocals,

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Speaker 2: I think, And and also you know, who knows what

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Speaker 2: the lyrics would have been. It would have been different

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Speaker 2: lyrical composition there for sure if it was a Tom

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Speaker 2: Petty song. So I'm sure it would have been great,

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Speaker 2: but it wouldn't have maybe it wouldn't have been as great,

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Speaker 2: who knows.

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Speaker 3: I guess I feel like I can't think of a

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Speaker 3: Tom Petty song that feels that earnestly melancholy. I feel

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Speaker 3: like the Tom Petty sad songs always have some irony

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Speaker 3: to them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. So this was meant

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Speaker 2: to be. Now that if you want to look up

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Speaker 2: the quote where he's talking about the inspiration. I was

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Speaker 2: reading the twenty twenty six Louder article The Boys of

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Speaker 2: Summer by Don Henley, the Story behind the Song by

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Speaker 2: Bill Demain. Certainly look that up if you're interested to

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Speaker 2: dig in more. And yeah, I have to say that.

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Speaker 2: As I was reading this, I was like, Okay, I

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Speaker 2: need to listen to these summertime songs again. So I

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Speaker 2: was pulling up Summertime Sadness, listened to it a few

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Speaker 2: times through, and I pulled up The Boys of Summer,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, I have to go back on some of

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Speaker 2: the things I said, go back on some of the

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Speaker 2: things I said in the last episode, you know where

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Speaker 2: I said like, oh, I love the music, but you know,

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Speaker 2: the lyrics a little creepy at times. I think I

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Speaker 2: think I was wrong. I think I have to say

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Speaker 2: that great music and the lyrics are great too. It's

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Speaker 2: got some wonderful lines and like out on the road today,

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Speaker 2: I saw a deadhead stick around a Cadillac. That's just

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Speaker 2: an all timer right there.

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Speaker 3: That one's scan's really good. It's good metrical qualities.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I also feel very differently this song now, knowing that

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Speaker 3: it has that Dylan Thomas the force that drives the

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Speaker 3: green views through the flower principle in it. I wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have suspected that, even though it kind of fits the

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Speaker 3: mood of the music. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, don Henley fans right in, let us know

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Speaker 2: what you think. Do you agree, do you disagree? I

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Speaker 2: would not be surprised if there are some folks who

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Speaker 2: write in to correct me on how I feel about

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Speaker 2: this song after part one, and if you did so,

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Speaker 2: we'll rest assured that I changed my mind a little

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Speaker 2: bit between part one and part two.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, Rob, would you like to talk about a

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Speaker 3: historical link that a lot of people made between the

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Speaker 3: Dog Days of Summer and rabies.

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Speaker 2: I think that is the next logical place to go

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Speaker 2: after more discussion of the Boys of Summer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, deadheadsticker on a Cadillac, rabid Dogs. So I was

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Speaker 3: reading about this actually in a paper published in the

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Speaker 3: Journal of Urban History in twenty twenty five by a

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Speaker 3: scholar named Chris Pearson who is a professor of environmental

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Speaker 3: history at the University of Liverpool. This paper is called

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Speaker 3: The Sinister Side of Summer, Revisiting the Dog Days of

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Speaker 3: nineteenth century New York. So in this paper, it's interesting

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Speaker 3: because the author places a sort of specific narrative about

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Speaker 3: dogs and rabies and the heat of the summer and

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Speaker 3: the dog star Serius within a broader context of literature

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Speaker 3: in the nineteenth century where people are just expressing anxieties

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Speaker 3: and grievances about the dog days of summer, especially in

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Speaker 3: the city of New York. At the time, the dog

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Speaker 3: days were typically placed in late July and early August.

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Speaker 3: That was the time people really I was like, that's

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Speaker 3: when we think the dog days are now, because, as

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Speaker 3: we discussed in the last episode, while the Hallikal rising

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Speaker 3: of Sirius is an objective date that you can that

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Speaker 3: you can find, you know, you can pinpoint exactly when

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Speaker 3: that happens for your location on the globe each year,

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Speaker 3: that's not necessarily how people usually invoke the dog days

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Speaker 3: of summer, especially in subsequent decade. That might have been

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Speaker 3: more what it was in the ancient world, where people

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Speaker 3: were pegging it to astrology into the star. But in

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Speaker 3: more recent centuries it's just like the hottest part of summer.

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Speaker 3: People call that so late July early August. In New

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Speaker 3: York in the nineteenth century, those were the dog days,

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Speaker 3: and people had a lot of negative opinions about the

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Speaker 3: dog days. So Pearson quotes a poem from the year

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Speaker 3: eighteen fifty written by a New York newspaper editor named

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Speaker 3: George P. Morris, called Rhyme of the ancient editor, Yuck Yuck,

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Speaker 3: New York in the dog Days, and it includes the

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Speaker 3: lines my brain is parched and airing, the pavement hot

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Speaker 3: and dry, and not a breath is stirring beneath the

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Speaker 3: burning sky. And so a common sentiment that you will

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Speaker 3: see expressed in writing of the time is that this

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Speaker 3: time of year is sort of cursed. It was just

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Speaker 3: a regular belief that the height of summer was a

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Speaker 3: terrible time when people are at their worst, and was

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Speaker 3: a time when mad or rabid dogs would come out

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Speaker 3: and prowl the streets. Now today we know that rabies

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Speaker 3: is caused by a virus, and it is most often

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Speaker 3: transmitted through a bite, when the saliva of an infected

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Speaker 3: animal gets into the open wound of another animal, or

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Speaker 3: into the mucous membranes like the eyes or the mouth.

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Speaker 3: But we didn't always know that. And Pearson writes that

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Speaker 3: before the widespread acceptance of germ theory in the second

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Speaker 3: half of the nineteenth century, many people apparently believed quote

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Speaker 3: that the heat of the dog Days and the strange

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Speaker 3: influence of serious the dog star caused rabies.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow.

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Speaker 3: Another way he puts it is that rabies was quote

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Speaker 3: an emotional disease triggered by high temperatures. Now, this was

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Speaker 3: by no means a universal view. There were plenty of

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Speaker 3: doctors and veterinarians in the eighteen hundreds who thought that

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Speaker 3: this was complete hogwash, that neither the stars nor heat

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Speaker 3: had anything to do with rabies, and they argued their

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Speaker 3: case in public. But they were not able, apparently, to

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Speaker 3: put this popular belief to rest. And what Pearson calls

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Speaker 3: the myth of the dog Days actually influenced public health policy,

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Speaker 3: including policy about like when dog pounds were opened, when

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Speaker 3: these dog kind of brutal and disturbing dog calling campaigns

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Speaker 3: took place. Now, one thing that I do want to

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Speaker 3: come back to later is that there are actually reasons

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Speaker 3: to be especially concerned about rabies in the summertime. But

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Speaker 3: that is not because raybis is only a disease that happen.

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Speaker 3: You know that happens in the summertime. Rabies is present

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Speaker 3: all year round, and it is not because the heat

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Speaker 3: triggers rabies in any particular way. There are other reasons

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Speaker 3: that I'll come back to you at the end of

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Speaker 3: the section. It is not that the summer stars or

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Speaker 3: the hot weather give animals rabies, but there are summertime concerns.

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Speaker 3: So summarizing the press treatment of dogs and rabies in

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Speaker 3: nineteenth century New York, Pearson writes, quote, the high temperatures

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Speaker 3: sparked concerns about dogs overheating and falling under the influence

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Speaker 3: of the dog star, with the press reporting frequently on

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Speaker 3: instances of seemingly mad dogs roaming the streets and causing chaos.

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Speaker 3: Pet dogs were just as likely to become rabid, but

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Speaker 3: the close associations of street dogs with dirt disorder and

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Speaker 3: disease framed them as the canine counterpart to the so

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Speaker 3: called human dangerous classes, making them the particular target of

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Speaker 3: anxieties as well as violence from passers by and policeman. However,

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Speaker 3: in mocking the very same ideas, Pearson quotes an eighteen

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Speaker 3: fifty seven edition of the New York Daily Times, which wrote,

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Speaker 3: quote popular belief and what is often synonymous popular error,

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Speaker 3: give to the dog Star the honor of influencing the

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Speaker 3: ebb and flow of canine madness, as its lunar sister

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Speaker 3: does the tide in affair of men. So you get

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Speaker 3: these voices. It's not like a universal chorus of people

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Speaker 3: saying like, oh yeah, the heat of the summer, the

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Speaker 3: dog Days and the dog Star they are causing rabies.

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Speaker 3: You're going to get in the literature a lot of

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Speaker 3: sources arguing against this idea, seemingly because it was just

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Speaker 3: so popular among regular people, and it was showing up

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Speaker 3: a lot in like newspaper articles, not written by experts.

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Speaker 3: So you'll get a lot of skeptical debunkings of this

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Speaker 3: idea over and over during the time. Pearson also lists

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Speaker 3: evidence of dog Day's Panic in places other than New York,

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Speaker 3: mentioning that there was some dog Day's danger reasoning to

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Speaker 3: some degree driving the summer call of street dogs in

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Speaker 3: British colonial Bombay in eighteen thirty two, and he talks

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Speaker 3: about the police in Paris focusing the rabies control efforts

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Speaker 3: specifically on the summertime. As an example of the people

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Speaker 3: who argued against the belief that rabies and dogs was

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Speaker 3: caused by heat, Pearson cites a British veterinarian named William

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Speaker 3: Ywat who lived seventeen seventy six to eighteen forty seven.

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Speaker 3: This guy argued in his writings against the idea that

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Speaker 3: Raybi's quote is caused by a particular state of the atmosphere,

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Speaker 3: and Pearson notes this guy's exasperated tone and the tone

402
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Speaker 3: of other printed arguments against rabies. It seems like it's

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Speaker 3: one of those things that just like won't die, and

404
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Speaker 3: so the people who are skeptical of it are getting

405
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Speaker 3: continually annoyed by it. There's another doctor, he brings up

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Speaker 3: in a minute, who's like, I can't believe it's the

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Speaker 3: nineteenth century and people are still saying that rabies is

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Speaker 3: caused by the stars or by heat. But Pearson summarizes

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Speaker 3: the general corners of the nineteenth century debate among doctors

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Speaker 3: and veterinarians about the cause of rabies, and he mentioned

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Speaker 3: several competing ideas. So one of the theories was not

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Speaker 3: quite there yet to the full like germ theory viral

413
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Speaker 3: explanation that we would eventually land on, but it was

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Speaker 3: basically on the right track, and that idea was that

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Speaker 3: there was some kind of harmful substance transmitted between animals

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Speaker 3: and humans through the mouth which could spread through biting

417
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Speaker 3: or licking. That turned out to be basically correct. The

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Speaker 3: rabies virus is mostly spread through saliva getting into open

419
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Speaker 3: wounds or into mucous membranes. But other ideas were that

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Speaker 3: it arose somehow spontaneously in dogs due to sexual activity

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Speaker 3: too much or too little we'll get your arabies, or

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Speaker 3: too emotional disturbances come back to this one in a minute,

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Speaker 3: or finally to heat or heat maybe contributing to one

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Speaker 3: of the other explanations like the emotions, maybe like heat

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Speaker 3: triggers emotional irritability in dogs which makes them rabid. Now,

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Speaker 3: apart from actual seasonal trends and infection, which we can

427
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Speaker 3: talk about later, you might be able to imagine how

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Speaker 3: people could form a mental link between heat and rabies

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Speaker 3: just through visual cues, like when it's hot, dogs pant

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Speaker 3: a lot and this can result in drooling and the

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Speaker 3: showing of teeth, both symptoms that people would associate with

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Speaker 3: mad or rabid dogs, and Pierson quotes a couple of

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Speaker 3: other authors named Michael Warboys and Neil Pemberton, who described

434
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 3: this as a leading strain of thinking that quote, rabies

435
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 3: might be perverted pathologized panting. You know, it's somehow like

436
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 3: the panting response goes wrong and it goes haywire, and

437
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 3: it takes over the dog's brain and the dog becomes rabid.

438
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 3: Another way of characterizing this thinking is that heat could

439
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,959
Speaker 3: cause some kind of internal chemical change in dogs, that

440
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 3: the hottest part of summer could cause canine blood to

441
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 3: quote putrefy and become poisonous. So, despite the protestations of

442
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 3: skeptical experts, it was apparently widely believed that a hot

443
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 3: dog could somehow transform into a rabid dog.

444
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 2: It's such an interesting and you can see where it

445
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 2: would be such an infectious idea if you really get

446
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 2: in like some of these deeper connotations, like what a

447
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: domesticated dog is, like this sort of like deep seated

448
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 2: knowledge that this is an animal, This is a wolf

449
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: that has been brought into the fold and has entered

450
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 2: into the fold and entered into this ancient pact with

451
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,479
Speaker 2: us and become this companion animal that is valuable and

452
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: useful and even beloved. And the idea that something could

453
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 2: just sort of snap in them and revert all of

454
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 2: that back to wildness. You know, that's that's a scary concept.

455
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,479
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the stuff of horror movies. That's like

456
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 2: a blue Sunshine but for dogs.

457
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 3: Or Kujo, which is literally about rabies exactly.

458
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 2: There, Yeah, more directly.

459
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's funny what you bring up, like the

460
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 3: link with wolves and this knowledge about their their domestic

461
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 3: their domestic state now, but their wild heritage. This actually

462
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: does connect to something that a lot of people wrote

463
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 3: at the time about vilifying certain breeds of dogs, which is,

464
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 3: you know, a thing that still happens today, but at

465
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: the time it's not a particular breed, but at the

466
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 3: time piercing it's into this long section about how there

467
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 3: was a type of dog widely known as a spitz

468
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 3: dog spi t Z, and these dogs were singled out

469
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 3: for concern as being especially prone to dog day rabidity

470
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: to you know, summertime dog madness. Now, the spits is

471
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 3: not a breed, it's this broad, vaguely defined class of

472
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 3: pointy snouted dogs. I looked this up. The Encyclopedia Britannica

473
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 3: has an article about the spitz dog concept, and Britannica

474
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 3: calls them quote northern breeds with defining characteristics such as

475
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 3: a fox like head, pointed ears, and a tail that

476
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: curves over their backs. So you can think about a

477
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: lot of dogs that have roughly those characters.

478
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 2: The scary dogs from movies. These are the kinds of

479
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: dogs that are going to chase James Bond through the woods.

480
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 3: Well, not necessarily, like a lot of the dogs that

481
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: fit the spits characteristics are actually quite funny, like cute,

482
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 3: little yappy dog, you know, like a Pomeranian or something

483
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: that's you know, that fits the characteristics. But these characteristics,

484
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 3: the thinking wind made the Spits dogs more closely related

485
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: to wolves and thus more prone to give way to

486
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: their brutal nature and become rabid.

487
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 2: And of course there are a lot of like incorrect

488
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: notions about the wolf title and all of this as well,

489
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: because there's a big difference between a rabid dog and

490
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: a wild wolf. I mean, you can get a rabid

491
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: wolf obviously, and that's a bad situation as well. But yeah,

492
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: the wild wolf and the rabbit dog are two very

493
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: different cases. The wild wolf has long been vilified, in

494
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: large part because of its relationship to domesticated farm animals.

495
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, so tons of misconceptions are all wrapped up here.

496
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: Pierson quotes an author named George B. Taylor, writing in

497
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 3: a book called Man's Best Friend in the year nineteen

498
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 3: oh one. Taylor wrote that talking about spits dogs, wrote quote,

499
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 3: they are Arctic creatures to whom life is only worth

500
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 3: living with the thermometer at from sixty five degrees to

501
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: where alcohol freezes. Creatures of snow and ice flow, who

502
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 3: are miserable in warm weather, and of course, like other

503
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 3: what are called arctic dogs. Authors of the time argued

504
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 3: that these dogs were especially prone to rabies. There's some

505
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 3: kind of mental link going on there, Like they're especially

506
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: uncomfortable in hot weather, they're especially tied to their wild ancestors,

507
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: they're especially wolf like, and thus these are like the

508
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 3: pinnacle of like rabies concern dogs, like they're the most

509
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: likely to become mad and dangerous.

510
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 2: Again, flawed logic, but you can see how these thoughts

511
00:29:53,600 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: are connected in people's minds when they're considering this idea.

512
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 3: Now, I want to come back to the idea that

513
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 3: there was this other explanation of rabies and dogs, which

514
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: is that dogs are especially prone to emotional disturbances and

515
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: that their emotions can make them rabid. Pearson presents the

516
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 3: example of a British veterinarian named Edward Mayhew who wrote

517
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 3: about dogs as quote, irritable creatures with highly sensitive brains

518
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: and nervous systems. It's like, wow, it seems like I

519
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 3: could describe a lot.

520
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 2: Of animals, can describe people.

521
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, wonder Yeah strange, But this guy characterized rabies

522
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 3: as a disease caused by nervous excitability. And then Pearson

523
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: also mentions a New York doctor named Thomas Blatchford who

524
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: argued in eighteen fifty six that dogs were just super emotional.

525
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 3: They're very sensitive, highly prone to anger, and that emotional

526
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: sensitivity could in some way drive rabies and so as

527
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 3: a result, Pearson says, it's kind of interesting to think

528
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 3: that canine emotions quote were a public health risk that

529
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 3: needed to be managed. Yeah. Now it's interesting on this

530
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 3: topic because we have some like wrong versus wrong in

531
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: the literature. This is something something we encounter sometimes where

532
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 3: like a really wrong idea is being attacked by a

533
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 3: still wrong but maybe slightly less wrong idea. So this

534
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 3: guy Blatchford, this veterinarian or not veterinarian. I think he

535
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 3: was a doctor. But Blatchford thought that rabies was an

536
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 3: emotional condition. But he argued forcefully against the idea that

537
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: it was caused by heat. He called the dog day's

538
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: myth and utter fallacy. And he ran a special committee

539
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: of the American Medical Association in eighteen fifty six which

540
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: presented this report denouncing the heat rabies connection, arguing that

541
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 3: quote law is based on such a hypothesis or a

542
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 3: reproach to the nineteenth century. And he also made the

543
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: point that this very actually quite good point that this

544
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: false belief that the dog days of summer trigger rabies

545
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 3: could lead people to avoid taking precautions against rabies in

546
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 3: the other season. And he was absolutely correct that rabies

547
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 3: is a year round issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, this

548
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 3: paper also goes into a lot of dark places that

549
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 3: I'm not going to follow in detail. There are many

550
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 3: I mean, this is historically useful information, but I don't

551
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 3: want to dwell on this. But there's summaries of lots

552
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 3: of documented violence against street dogs and against dogs that

553
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 3: were suspected of being rabid during hot weather. There was

554
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 3: a lot of cruelty in the official campaigns instituted in

555
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 3: cities like New York trying to deal with straight dogs

556
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: or rabid dogs in the summer, supposedly rabid dogs in

557
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 3: the summer, culling campaigns, and dog pounds with appalling conditions

558
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 3: time Eventually, more humane measures were brought online, but for

559
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 3: a while in the nineteenth century it sounds like these

560
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:12,239
Speaker 3: measures were pretty nasty. However, eventually germ theory and the

561
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: new medical science that emerged, especially after the work of

562
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 3: Louis Pasteur, would help clear away a lot of these

563
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,239
Speaker 3: misconceptions and offer a real framework for both understanding and

564
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 3: dealing with the reality of raybis so. Louis Pasteur studied

565
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 3: rabies in the early eighteen eighties, and in eighteen eighty

566
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 3: five Pasteur developed the first successful vaccine for the disease.

567
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 3: So before the rabies vaccine, raby's infection was almost one

568
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 3: hundred percent fatal and also not to dwell on grim realities,

569
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 3: but death by rabies is a horrifying death. Like one

570
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: of the most terrible and excruciating diseases you can imagine,

571
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 3: so it's like, you know, an absolute death sentence and

572
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 3: a horrible death. If it's not always that a bite

573
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: would result in rabies, like there are cases where people

574
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 3: were bitten by rabbit animals and maybe like it just

575
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 3: didn't result in a full infection, symptoms never manifested. But

576
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: basically if infection actually takes hold, if symptoms manifest, it

577
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 3: is one hundred percent fatal. So Pasteur first he created

578
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 3: this vaccine first by developing an attenuated form of the

579
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 3: rabies virus by passing it through a series of animal

580
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 3: hosts and then drying out the infected tissue to weaken it.

581
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 3: So what Pasteur did is he took samples of nerve tissue,

582
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 3: which was basically dried ground up spinal cords from rabbits

583
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 3: that had been infected with the brain tissue from rabbit dogs,

584
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: and then injected a hydrated form of that dried nerve

585
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 3: tissue into the patient in a series of increasing doses.

586
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: And I think as the method went on, he came

587
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: up with with the idea that you could like progressively

588
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 3: weaken the virus by drying it out for different periods

589
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: of time. And so this treatment based on the dried

590
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 3: nerve tissue from infected animals. This treatment was first tried

591
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 3: in humans in eighteen eighty five on a nine year

592
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 3: old boy named it Joseph Meister from Alsace, who had

593
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 3: been bitten fourteen times by a rabid dog. He was

594
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 3: brought to Pasteur after the bites to try out the

595
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 3: first post exposure prophylaxis that's what it's called today, when

596
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 3: you get the rabies vaccine after you've already gotten the exposure.

597
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 3: And for Meister it worked. He survived, and again worth

598
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 3: emphasizing that basically nobody survived actually contracting rabies before this.

599
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 3: Now it's worth stating that it wasn't that Meister had

600
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 3: actually fully developed symptoms and contracted rabies and then got

601
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 3: the vaccine, because once you developed symptoms sort of your

602
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 3: window has closed. But the important thing is being able

603
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 3: to get the post exposure prophylaxis between the time of

604
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 3: exposure and when the first symptoms develop. And that's what

605
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 3: happened here.

606
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: And this is why as most of you know that

607
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: you know if you're bitten by an animal of unknown origin,

608
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: like there's a very high probability that the doctors are

609
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 2: going to give you that shot, you know, just to

610
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 2: make sure.

611
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, And one of the most important things is that

612
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 3: speed is of the essence here. So today, if you

613
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 3: have access to immediate medical care before symptoms begin, rabies,

614
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 3: getting a bite from a rabbit animal is almost one

615
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 3: hundred percent survivable. Like the treatment works, but the emphasis

616
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 3: we really should emphasize speed, Like if you ever think

617
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 3: you might have been exposed to rabies, you should not

618
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 3: wait and see it's not. Yeah, that could mean death.

619
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 3: You seek medical attention immediately, and if you do, it

620
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 3: is survivable. But basically so this early paste or vaccination,

621
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: it did come with some dangers. It hadn't been perfected yet,

622
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 3: so there were like some bad complications and side effects

623
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 3: for some people. But also it saved tons of lives,

624
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 3: and it laid the groundwork for the safer and even

625
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 3: more effective post exposure profile access protocols that we have today.

626
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 3: So rabies is really an amazing case of medical science

627
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 3: in that regard, like a bite from a rabbit animal

628
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 3: used to mean almost certain death, assuming that infection actually

629
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 3: took cold and not all bites resulted in an infection.

630
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 3: But it used to be if you got infected, certain death.

631
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 3: And now if you have access to fast medical care.

632
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 3: If you can get the post exposure vaccines, then you

633
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 3: will you will almost certainly survive.

634
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: And then is it safe to look at the dog

635
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 2: star once you've see the vaccine?

636
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 3: Okay, yes it is. Yeah, the dog star, from what

637
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 3: we can tell, has no role there. Yeah, But you know,

638
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 3: that does kind of bring it back to the Pearson

639
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 3: talks about this. So now we've got a vaccine, we've

640
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 3: got journey theory established, you know, so germ theory becomes

641
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 3: the dominant explanation in the late nineteenth century, certainly by

642
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 3: the beginning of the twentieth century. And we have a

643
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 3: vaccine that is effective, but that did not totally stop

644
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 3: the summer mad dog scares. It just continues in the

645
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 3: popular consciousness for a while, and you still see these

646
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 3: newspaper articles about its summertimes here. That means dogs are

647
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 3: going to be, you know, getting rabies from the summer heat,

648
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 3: and you got to watch out for them. But I

649
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 3: do want to come back and mention that there are

650
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 3: actual reasons to be concerned about rabies in the summertime.

651
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 3: It's not that the summer stars give animals rabies. It

652
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 3: is not that the hot weather gives animals rabies, but

653
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 3: there often are summer seasonal spikes in rabies, especially in

654
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 3: detection of rabies, and the main variable here seems to

655
00:38:53,560 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 3: be increased opportunities for infectious encounters. So during warm weather,

656
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 3: people and dogs spend more time outdoors, and wild animals

657
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 3: in the summertime are also going to be more active,

658
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 3: moving around into new territory, doing more active foraging. So

659
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 3: there are just going to be in the warm months

660
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 3: more chances for infection to spread between wild animals through

661
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 3: increased encounters, and more chances for humans and domestic animals

662
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 3: to come into contact with infected wildlife. There might be

663
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 3: some light inherent seasonality to the virus itself, but primarily

664
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 3: the issue does seem to be that it's like, because

665
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 3: of the changes in behavior patterns of animals and humans

666
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 3: during the warm months, there's just more ways and chances

667
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 3: for infectious encounters to happen.

668
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't have time to get into this. We

669
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 2: may come back to this in a later episode, but

670
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 2: it reminds me a little bit about some of the

671
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: factors surrounding the heat aggression hypothesis with human populations, where yeah,

672
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: there's this idea that there seems to be a correlation

673
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 2: between violent and aggressive behavior and humans and the hot

674
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: places and the you know, the hottest part of the summer.

675
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: But one of the factors there is like, well, okay,

676
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 2: are more people outside, are more people interacting with each other?

677
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: Among a host of other factors that are involved. Because

678
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: you know, anything that's already complex with with dogs, it's

679
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: going to be in many ways more complex with human beings.

680
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 2: All Right. For the remainder of this episode, I want

681
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: to I want to come back to Sirius. I want

682
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: to come back to the Dog Star and pick up

683
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 2: on some of what we were discussing last time. So

684
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: in the last episode we discussed the various dog and

685
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 2: wolf based interpretations of the stars Serius and its place

686
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 2: in the constellation Canus Major. If you connect the cosmic

687
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 2: dots the right way, sure it sort of looks like

688
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,959
Speaker 2: an animal, and that animal might as well be a dog,

689
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: because again, dogs have long been the nearest and dearest

690
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: creatures to our hearts. We have lived alongside them for

691
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 2: a very long time. So if you're going to interpret

692
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 2: this connect the dots shape in the sky to an

693
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: animal might as well be a dog.

694
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 3: What about my beloved crocodile Crocodilius major.

695
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it could be the case. I mean,

696
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 2: I think we've all had this situation with constellations, right

697
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 2: where you have the nice overlay with the stenciled image

698
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: of Orion or his dog, and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah,

699
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 2: there he is with his club, and then you remove

700
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 2: that and you just look at the stars dot it

701
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: together and you're like, okay, I see it a little less.

702
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 2: And then you just look at the stars and you're like, Okay,

703
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: maybe I'm not seeing it at all. But yeah, I mean,

704
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: obviously this is all human interpretation and our way of

705
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 2: understanding the arrangement and movements of the stars and then

706
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 2: you know, aspiring different levels of meaning and memory to them.

707
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

708
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 2: So I want to return once more to Jay Holberg's

709
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: serious Brightest Diamond in the Night Sky from two thousand

710
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 2: and seven book we cited in the last episode. He

711
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 2: gets into it a bit here, and you know, again

712
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 2: he covers the Greek and Roman emphasis on the canine

713
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: aspects of the dog Star, as well as it's purported

714
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 2: influence over dogs, which we've been discussing. But again, the

715
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 2: dog Star is also sometimes the wolf Star. And you know,

716
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 2: that's a major shift, maybe not in species, but certainly

717
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 2: in its implications, because, as we've been referencing here, the

718
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: dog is the domesticated relative of the wolf. And while

719
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: the dog is our companion, our guardian, and our helper,

720
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 2: the wolf is often an emblem of wildness, maybe in

721
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 2: a positive way, but also in a potentially dangerous way.

722
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 2: And this has all long been an area humans have

723
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: kind of wrestled with this duality. I've discussed this before

724
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 2: regarding where wolf myths and proto were wolf myths, and

725
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 2: you know, even the Romans who recognized the founders of Rome, Romulus,

726
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: and Remus as having been suckled by the great she wolf.

727
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 2: And you know, obviously they have a great affinity for

728
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: the wolf. In this sense, there's also still room for fear.

729
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 2: So you have both of these energies going on at once. Yeah,

730
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 2: in addition to the dog influence, the idea that again

731
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 2: that there's some sort of influence from the dog star

732
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: on the behavior of dogs. Holberg notes that the denizens

733
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 2: of the Greek island of CEOs viewed the twinkling or

734
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: shaking or any faintness of the dog star as a

735
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 2: potential indicator of crop blight, and that the dog Star

736
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: itself like basically kept the golden wolf of the Eastern

737
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 2: Taurus Mountains at bay, forcing this wolf to retreat underground

738
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: then and in doing so like protected the crops. The

739
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: Romans also thought that the haliacal setting of the dog star,

740
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 2: not the rising, but the setting, could bring about a

741
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 2: rust colored grain fungus, and that the sacrifice of a

742
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 2: red dog to the deity Rhebigus was required. But certainly

743
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: a dash of domesticated dog versus wild wolf is It

744
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 2: can be seen in this you know, this long standing

745
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 2: contemplation point and human thought.

746
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 3: It's interesting that you would have this tradition of the

747
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 3: dog star keeping the wolves at bay in this one telling,

748
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 3: whereas later you get this idea that it is setting

749
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 3: the dogs like it is turning the doll the dogs

750
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 3: into mad wolves. It's like making them revert like altered

751
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 3: states or something.

752
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess we see that a

753
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: lot in various traditions, even in like modern traditions coming

754
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: back to the werewolf, like does wolf's bane stop a

755
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 2: werewolf or does it cause a werewolf?

756
00:44:58,640 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 3: Oh?

757
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 2: They just like closely a associated in so it's upgoing

758
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: different different ways in different tellings. Again, in China, I

759
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,959
Speaker 2: think we referenced this already, but the star was known

760
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 2: as the heavenly Wolf, where I believe ten Lang. It's unknown, however,

761
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: if there is actually any link between the Eastern wolf

762
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 2: interpretation and the Western dog interpretation, but Holberg notes that

763
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 2: depictions of the star as a dog do seem to

764
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 2: date back to ancient Mesopotamian cuniform writings, where it was

765
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 2: at least sometimes referred to as the dog that leads. Again,

766
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 2: while the Egyptians had no deep rooted concept of Sirius

767
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: as a dog, rather as soft debt an aspect of

768
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 2: the goddess Isis, still you had the influence of Greek

769
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: and Roman dog star concepts, and those eventually did have

770
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 2: their influence over Egyptian thought, resulting in a believe second

771
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 2: century CE Alexandria minted drachma that showed Isis riding on

772
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 2: the back of a dog. So like two different ideas

773
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 2: kind of brought together there and then meanwhile, this was

774
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 2: really fascinating. Holberg devotes several pages to the various North

775
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: American indigenous tribes that characterize the star Sirius as a dog,

776
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 2: and there are numerous examples, just to name a few.

777
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 2: He mentions the moon dog of the Inuit, the dog

778
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 2: that follows the mountain sheep of the thane Atham, who

779
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: we've talked about on the show a couple of times

780
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: already this year, the blackfoot of the Great Plains, who

781
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 2: called it dogface. And he also mentions that the Cherokee

782
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 2: see the stars Sirius and Anteries the brightest star of

783
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 2: the constellation Scorpius, as a pair of celestial dogs guarding

784
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 2: either end of the path of souls, the Milky Way,

785
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 2: and so to pass beyond the path of souls, the

786
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: spirit of the dead has to bring a little tree.

787
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 2: You got to bring a bribe, You got to bring

788
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 2: something for both dogs. And if you don't, you're going

789
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 2: to wander the path of souls forever and never cross

790
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 2: on beyond it.

791
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 3: Wow.

792
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, some beautiful traditions they are also the

793
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 2: Pawnee called it the white Star or wolf star, and

794
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 2: sometimes in some traditions it was not a wolf or

795
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 2: a dog, but a coyote and would take on a

796
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: trickster aspect, you know, very much. Getting into that recurring

797
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: theme of the coyote as some sort of a cosmic

798
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 2: trickster in various indigenous traditions. Now, it's also important to

799
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 2: stress here, and Holberg points this out as well, that

800
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 2: there's still plenty of indigenous North American traditions about the

801
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 2: star Sirius that do not have any canine references. But

802
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:50,760
Speaker 2: he stresses that there's no real consistency among those non

803
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 2: canine interpretations. And so, you know, you have numerous canine

804
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 2: traditions then that could possibly be linked together and even

805
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 2: share a common ancestor with traditions that were carried over

806
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 2: by the first people to cross into North America, you know,

807
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 2: across the Bearing Sea land bridge, and then but still

808
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: plenty of room for other traditions that have nothing to

809
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: do with dogs.

810
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah, because we don't know how far back some

811
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 3: of the traditions about serious go, because it seems like

812
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 3: people have been noticing and paying attention to the star

813
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 3: long before you know, recorded history.

814
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so, and then it's also one of these

815
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 2: things like if there is a human inclination to identify

816
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 2: this these stars and the way you might connect them

817
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 2: to an animal, and then possibly to an animal that is,

818
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 2: you know, close to us. In one way or another.

819
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 2: If we do it at one point in time, it's

820
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: not impossible that we do it another point in time

821
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 2: later on, you know, separated by maybe thousands of years,

822
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 2: and you know, on the other side of the globe,

823
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 2: so it could just spontaneously pop up as well.

824
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 3: Totally. Yeah, dogs are close at hand, so it's not

825
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 3: proof of like a common cultural ancestral tradition.

826
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And if not dogs, then wolves or coyotes

827
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 2: or whatever the case may be.

828
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

829
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: Now, there's also a long standing tradition of seeing the

830
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 2: star Sirius is not part of a dog or a

831
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 2: wolf for a coyote, but is part of a bow

832
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 2: and arrow. This is interesting. The ancient Chinese viewed part

833
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 2: of the constellations of Pupis and Canus major as forming

834
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 2: a bow and arrow pointed at Sirius, and then in

835
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 2: ancient Mesopotamian traditions, the star Sirius is sometimes the point

836
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 2: of the arrow primed in its bow. Thus the ancient

837
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 2: Babylonian tradition of the star as and I did not

838
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 2: look up the pronunciation for this getting into the ancient

839
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 2: Babylonian probable pronunciations, but Caxi saw spelled capital kak dot

840
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 2: s I dot s say, which also sounds like it

841
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: could be some sort of web address that you shouldn't

842
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,399
Speaker 2: click on. But this would mean the arrow star, and

843
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 2: in ancient India as well, it was associated with arrows

844
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 2: and was sometimes described as the deer slayer or the hunter.

845
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 3: Oh well, interesting also that it could be coincidence once again,

846
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 3: But Orion is the hunter, of course, and so Orion's

847
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 3: dogs are the hunting dogs.

848
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the hunting dogs dogs in human hunting. There

849
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 2: a lot has been. There's a lot of fascinating hypotheses

850
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 2: out there about the role that dogs played in really

851
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 2: like upping our hunting game and allowing us to become

852
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,760
Speaker 2: these mighty hunters. You know, would we have mighty hunters

853
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 2: among the humans if we did not have the dogs

854
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: there alongside us. Let's see elsewhere. You mentioned that the

855
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:54,919
Speaker 2: Zoroastrians identified Sirius as Trishtira, the angel of the Star

856
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 2: of Sirius, and a lot of emphasis here was on

857
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 2: its connection to rain and water, which of course reminds

858
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 2: us of the way that the Egyptians thought of the star.

859
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 3: Right, because in ancient Egypt, the Hallikal rising of Sirius

860
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 3: was thought as the signal of the beginning of the

861
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 3: Nile inundation season.

862
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. Meanwhile, in Arabic it was al Shira and then

863
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 2: later al kaalb al Akbar, the greater Dog in Islamic

864
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 2: astronomical texts. Obviously here it's picking up on some ideas

865
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 2: from the Greek, but Holberg also points out that Sirius

866
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 2: is the only star other than the Sun obviously to

867
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 2: be quote explicitly identified in the Qoran. So he singles

868
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 2: out chapter fifty three of the Qoran. This is Sura

869
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 2: on Nadjim the Star, and in it Allah is described,

870
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: among other titles and honorifics, as quote he who is

871
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 2: the Lord of Sirius. And this is a really interesting line.

872
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 2: And I'm on one hand reading this for my own

873
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,399
Speaker 2: part for the first time. Again. It's one of many

874
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 2: titles and honorifics given to Allah in this chapter. And

875
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 2: it seems fitting yet that an almighty god is also

876
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: god of the most prominent star in the night sky, right, yeah, yeah, So,

877
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 2: I mean, at face value, it just seems like perfectly

878
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 2: reasonable thing that you would list out there. But apparently

879
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,280
Speaker 2: as far back as the fourteenth century it was said

880
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 2: as well that this was a direct rebuke of a

881
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 2: tradition among some pre Islamic Arabs to revere or possibly

882
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 2: worship the star in some fashion or at least hold

883
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 2: it within some religious tradition that was maybe seen in

884
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 2: opposition to the rise of Islam. And so this would

885
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 2: seem to be potentially a case then where the text

886
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 2: is saying those of you who worshiped a god associated

887
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 2: with Sirius, well, Allah is the one true God and

888
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,720
Speaker 2: the god of that star along with everything.

889
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,720
Speaker 3: Else I see. So it's allegedly making a point about

890
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 3: about all those dominance over the gods of previously held faiths.

891
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's my understanding of it. And in this,

892
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: you know, we can easily compare this with various other

893
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: uh the rise of other religions, where there is an

894
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 2: emphasis on pointing out things that were held sacred in

895
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 2: prior faiths, be they you know, monotheistic, monotheistic, or polytheistic,

896
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 2: and saying well, actually, no, that is the domain of

897
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 2: this god. This god is is the highest god of all.

898
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 3: Yeah.

899
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 2: And of course I think all this, of course is

900
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 2: always fascinating because you know, from our vantage point, we

901
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 2: know the Golden Age of Islamic astronomy to come from,

902
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 2: you know, the certainly the eighth through fifteenth centuries, So

903
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 2: it's it's interesting to see these little astronomical touches already

904
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 2: in the Qur'an. And then finally, I'll note that Holberg

905
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 2: does devote several pages to to discussing the importance of

906
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 2: Sirius among other stars in Polynesian and Micronesian now vigation,

907
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 2: as well as a seasonal marker. And of course this

908
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 2: calls back to a whole series that we did a

909
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 2: few years back about such navigation and the importance of

910
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,879
Speaker 2: the stars and charting these just amazing voyages or really

911
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 2: the last voyages into the unknown on the planet Earth

912
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 2: by human explorers.

913
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that series I remember being one of the

914
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,399
Speaker 3: most amazing things to me, like, of all the things

915
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 3: we've ever covered, was about the Pacific Island navigation techniques

916
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 3: before modern instruments. Yeah, like really really amazing.

917
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the last cases of human beings venturing out and

918
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 2: discovering new places where humans had never ventured to before.

919
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:46,280
Speaker 2: It's pretty amazing, and doing so with these these finely

920
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 2: honed traditions and observations that yeah, the contemporary historians and

921
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 2: scientists and so forth had to struggle to understand.

922
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, but being able to read things that a lot

923
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 3: of people just wouldn't even notice about the sea, about

924
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 3: the currents, about the stars, of course, but even about

925
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 3: the behavior of animals like birds, and all kinds of

926
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,840
Speaker 3: things that could give you clues about how to navigate

927
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 3: in open ocean where you have no reference markers and

928
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 3: no compass instruments or anything either.

929
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, yea, your compass becomes the heavens, it becomes these

930
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 2: the movements of these stars, and Serious plays a role

931
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 2: in all of that. Yeah, all right, Well, I think

932
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 2: that's going to do it for part two here, but

933
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 2: we have enough, at the very least for a part three.

934
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,800
Speaker 2: There's still some areas concerning the dog days of Summer

935
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: and Serious that we want to get into. So join

936
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,720
Speaker 2: us next week as we come back and at least

937
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,399
Speaker 2: do Dog Days and Death Stars part three.

938
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 3: All right, I'll see you then.

939
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 2: In the meantime, we'll just remind you that Stuff to

940
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 2: Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast,

941
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 2: with core episodes in the podcast feed on Tuesdays and Thursday,

942
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 2: short form on days and on Fridays, we set us

943
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 2: one most serious concerns to just talk about a weird

944
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 2: film on Weird House Cinema. We've been a audio podcast

945
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: for a long time, so if you want to look

946
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 2: up any of these older episodes that we keep referring to,

947
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,879
Speaker 2: wherever you get your audio podcast, seek us out, dig

948
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 2: around in there see if there's something that interests you.

949
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:24,560
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950
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951
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954
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955
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Speaker 2: kind of feedback you can give us, any kind of

956
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 2: ratings and reviews you can give us that bumps us.

957
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,760
Speaker 3: Up huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer

958
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 3: JJ Posway. If you would like to get in touch

959
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,000
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960
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,080
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961
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,200
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962
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:06,520
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963
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,600
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964
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,480
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