WEBVTT - Small Talk With Mo Rocca: 'Mobituaries' and Perspective on Historical Crimes 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:06.040 Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda Land Audio in 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:15.200 partnership with I Heart Radio M We're doing something a 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.239 little differently on today's episode of our show. Today, we're 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.120 talking to Mo Rocca, who is um on many interesting things, 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.560 the hosting creator of the hit podcast Mobituaries and author 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.800 of the New York Times bestselling book Mobituaries, Great Lives 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:33.440 Worth Reliving. Welcome to Criminalia. I am Maria Tremarque, and 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.960 I'm Holly Fry and Mo. I am so delighted to 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.080 have you here. I am a longtime fan. The Presidential 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:44.240 Pets book is a favorite. Yes, mine too, mine too, Yes, 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:50.480 I am truly howled not a lot of people bought 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.000 that book. Well, it's sold like hotcake at my house, right, 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:56.800 big hit in my world. Thank you. I mean, you 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.440 have a lot of great stuff under your belt. You 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.160 have a I'm time Emmy because she wrote the six 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:04.679 or fourth annual Tony Awards, which is amazing. That was, 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.880 And you have been a CBS Sunday Morning correspondent. You 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.319 do a lot of stuff, but I love that you 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.680 are working so much in history. Right now, today we're 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:19.720 going to talk a little bit about your show mobituaries 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:24.520 and all of the interesting ways that you encounter history 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.720 through this lens. So it's such a specific but really 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.880 smart way I think to talk about history. Was there 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:34.480 a specific person or topic that was the inspiration for this, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.320 and then once you realize you were going to do it, 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:39.680 was there an obvious best choice of where you were 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:43.399 going to start telling these stories? Holly first of all, 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:45.280 and Maria, I'm so happy to be here. I do 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.680 have to say. You mentioned that I won an Emmy 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.760 for writing for the Chinese and I'm thinking that if 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.240 I could win a Grammy singing about the oscars, that 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:58.920 gave me an ego. It's a technical egot, and that's 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:03.520 the most important. Yes, it's the hardest type to have. 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.920 I thought of the idea for obituaries before I had 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:10.200 a specific person in mind. But I will tell you 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:13.320 the very person that we did, which was not my idea. 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.040 It came to me through my then producer Meg and 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:20.560 Marcus was on Meter, who was this wildly famous for 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:25.240 the time impersonator of John of Kennedy, then President, whose 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.120 career died when the president was assassinated. And it was 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:33.880 one of these boards where it combined politics with pop culture. 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.280 It was a dramatic story. It really what my appetite 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:39.720 for doing more of this. It just felt like you 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:43.720 could get through history and so many different ideas through 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.000 a you know, it's a really grim topic in an 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:50.600 entertaining way. We did an episode on the Rural Courge 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:55.519 about when really popular sitcoms of the sixties, which were 0:02:56.040 --> 0:03:01.160 almost all about rural America Greenaker's Petticoach jump and replaced 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:05.919 in one health group by more urban sitcoms, and there 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:09.399 was a real history story there wasn't just about fun sitcoms. 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.640 We also are pretty curious what that research and prep 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.040 processes like after that. I know, we go through a 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.680 lot ourselves coming up for others, and there's always those little, 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.080 those spiders stories that don't quite make it into what 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:25.480 you're doing, but they're one or two sentences that are 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:29.040 always really interesting about someone or your research process changes, 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:31.880 I think constantly. But I'm curious how yours is too. 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.960 I mean, the rabbit holes are really fun, pulling yes 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.760 little threads. So when we were researching one on from 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:44.040 this pain, I was actually listening to the audio book 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.600 of our experts, Biography of Pain, written by a guy 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.720 named Craig Nelson, not to be confused with Nelson Couch, 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.640 but there was literal parenthetical, at least it sounded like 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.520 a parenthetical on the audiobook. It was one line that 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:03.440 mentioned a museum exhibit in Hamboard in seventeen fifty five 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:10.920 where Swedish spotmissed Carl Linnaeus disproved the thousands year long 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.720 belief in dragons. And I thought, well, what is this 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:19.320 right one sentence like the author at that point was 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:23.839 talking about the Enlightenment, and just toss decide that Carl Linnaeus, 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.599 the Swedish spotmiss was in Hamburg to look at a 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.840 seven headed high draw on exhibit and realized it was 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:34.000 a faith, thus disproving the existence of dragons. I wasn't 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.640 going to let it just fly by, Like I'm not 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:38.080 a big Game of Thrones person, but I know a 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:42.160 lot of dragons fly. But anyway, so that's part of 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.159 the fun of it, is when you stump something and 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.240 you stumble on a little detail and it leads you 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.000 in the whole of the direction. So that kind of 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.320 leads me to my next question because I know, I mean, 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.000 Maria and I both know history is full of little 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.560 surprises and you think you're talking about one topic and 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.720 it turns out to be actually something completely different. And 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:05.800 I wanted to talk to you about your episode Death 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.440 of a Name Mildred, Bertha and Todd, where you talk 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:12.080 about names and how they shift. Mildred Gallars, who is 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.560 known as access Sally, who kind of parallels some stories 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:20.400 we've told. I'm wondering what your biggest surprises were when 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.120 you were researching her, and at what point you were like, wait, 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.960 this woman was tried for treason in the US and 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:31.080 was the first woman to be so. And I suspect 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.360 because I know you did an episode right on Douglas Chandler, 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.919 is that right, who also was tried for treason or 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.200 convicted of it? So you're going to know more than I. 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.279 But I think that there aren't a lot of people 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:47.720 who have been convicted of treason. And so when one 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.880 of the producers of the Names episode gave me a 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.400 list of Mildred's, my eye went right towards Mildred Glars. 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.320 And so when I went to visit my fifth grade teacher, 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:01.200 Mildred Venisi, and we were talking about different Aldred, I 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:03.440 knew that it would be a fun thing to bring 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:07.440 up this woman convicted of treason who was a propagandist 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.440 for Nazi Germany. I was surprised that I didn't know 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.560 about this woman in learning about her that after her 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:18.720 prison terms she ended up teaching music in Ohio. I'm 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:23.680 wondering what she taught the kids, and obviously her career changed. 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:26.640 I guess if she had taught them eight old vice 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.520 it wouldn't have been It might have been a little loaded. 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.360 But the um again one of those kind of ancillary 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:39.200 benefits of doing these deep dives on a topic like 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:43.280 names that seemingly just a lot of fun, and it is. 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.200 But then suddenly to learn about someone picked of treason 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:53.120 and Mildred, Oh, treasonus Mildred, that's the Mildred that we 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.320 were looking for. That would be a great name for 0:06:56.360 --> 0:07:02.080 a pet. Treesonus Mildred to the Treasons Mildred. Also like, 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.000 you know, just maybe you're getting a Christmas card from 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.640 military lars and seeing trees and greetings something like that. 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.120 I swear you just launched like a new business model. 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:33.120 You get royalties from that, right, This kind of still 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.720 builds on that idea of surprises. Our entire premise of 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.640 this show is that we're looking at historical crimes because 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.520 a lot of the time, when you see them in 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:46.160 the rear view mirror, you realize that some historical criminals 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:51.040 look actually pretty sympathetic, others that maybe heroes don't look 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.920 as great all the time. Have you had your expectations 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.440 or assumptions subverted by any of your subjects. I had 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:01.920 expectations subverted, as it's such a great point that things 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:06.600 that we think of as terrible times almost seemed sort 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:11.400 of sad and kind of limp in pathetic, and heroes 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:16.880 of course change. I knew that I would sympathize with 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:22.120 Billy Carter, with the younger brother of Jimmy Carter, going 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:26.200 into it, I didn't realize how much I would. I 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.600 think that's maybe a process of I don't want to 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.040 say necessarily falling in love with the subject, But I 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.680 think the deeper you get into search on somebody, the 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.720 more you do tend to empathize. I can't think of 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:43.160 somebody who I ended up disliking. Maybe I'm a little 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:49.479 bit of a chunk um. I felt more deeply for them, 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:52.000 And that was certainly the case of Billy Carter, who 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:55.880 played sort of the entertaining goofball. But the more we 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.800 got into it, the more it became a parent. That 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.680 what a situation to be placed in. He was a 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.280 father of six, I think before he was forty and 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.520 his wife they were raising a big family in this 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:15.160 very small town. Even in n national and international media. 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.440 Was a big deal to descend on this tiny town 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.280 in Georgia, and he placed under that microscope. I'm just 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.840 gonna plant this seed because I actually think you could 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:28.520 do an entire episode on baby Brothers, because you talking 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.559 about Billy makes me think of Lester Hemingway, who I 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:33.880 don't know how much you know about him, but Ernest 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:38.960 Hemingway's little brother had absolute like idolized his big brother 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.200 and kind of lived in his shadow and tried to 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.280 do all these crazy things to try to like make 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:49.400 a name for himself, including establishing his own country on 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.640 an island by using that loophole that if an island 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.000 had enough back guano, the U s could claim it 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.720 because it was a necessary fuel and fertilizer at the time. 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.199 But there are a lot of I the younger siblings 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.800 that are really interesting in history. I think he just 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:11.200 gave me three episodes and one right. For the Mombenturies book, 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:15.720 we did do something on siblings and the Bronte's brother, 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.719 Brandon Bronte. I can't remember. It's not Brandon, but it's 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:23.080 something like that. And you know those Bronte sisters, I 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.200 mean they were really productive. I mean they were really 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:30.200 talented helping their little brother. You know, it's so interesting 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:35.800 that you brought up sjuana. President Franklin Pierce one of 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.520 his big accomplishments. I mean, he helped tear the country 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.600 apart and let us into the Civil War, but he 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:46.679 also monopolized the international supply iguana, like hasting the guano islands, 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:51.000 and it really was a very valuable prolizer. Yeah, there's 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.200 a there's actually a three line there that you could 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:56.400 probably pursue, telling you do a whole season that's to 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:00.920 animal poop likes as long as it tid gently touches 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:06.560 the subject. He could. For a long time, I couldn't 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:11.599 feel I said guano was actually poop. I understood that 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.559 penguins pooped, but I thought the guana was just this 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:22.000 paste that they kind of admitted. I love this idea 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.520 that you think there's a secondary cloac situation happening where 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.920 they just like they make up pace. Oh that's no 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:38.280 fertilizer gland? Did you not know fertilizer gland? Exactly? I'm dying. 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:45.640 Fertilizer does sound a lot more romantic to say Guando 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:50.320 than I think. Yeah, I'm gonna laugh about Guano for 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.600 a minute, Um, Maria, were you about to go? Actually? 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:55.600 I was gonna make a joke about Douglas Chandler and 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.240 Paul Revere, but then I decided not. He used to 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.280 refer it in I did look a little bit. I 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.920 knew I did not know anything about Douglas Chandler. Chandler 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.560 is an interesting kind of guy. Holly and I talked 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.080 a lot about this on all of these people, like 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.160 where did this really come from? What grew in his 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.040 life that got him to the point where he was 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:17.840 taking the five point summary of propaganda points from the Germans? 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.680 You know, what we traced him back to was losing 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:25.079 his wealthy family and all of his money in the depression, 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.280 and he blamed it all on the Jewish community. And 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.760 he just went from there and he went to Europe 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.880 and everything that he saw there pleased him because it 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:38.520 wasn't American, really he stayed. He did many broadcasts anti 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.120 US broadcast, but Chandler, I think was one of the 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:46.920 stories where I found him looking at someone else. Actually, 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.720 I believe I might have been researching as a Pound 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.319 and his propaganda as repound speaking, and I think that's 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.520 when Douglas popped off, because his was actually similar in 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:00.760 that radio broadcast shortwave radio format. He's an interesting guy 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.640 who doesn't get a lot of name attention, but who 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:09.000 is exactly in that Nazi propaganda hole that I wanted 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.680 to try to avoid the entire season, that we didn't treasonist, 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:16.360 and yet here we were with Douglas Chandler. Yes, sort 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.880 of a lightweight as a Pound, which would make him 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:28.520 Ezra Bunch. That's a great cartoon character, as he's not 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.559 really very good at verse, but he tries real hard. 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:49.839 He Ghoest writes for people on the side. I'm gonna 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:54.079 ask you a sort of heady question, MO, When historians 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.440 of the future right your obituary, what do you hope 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:01.240 it includes? What's the thing where you're like, they better 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.880 tell people that I did X Y or Z. I 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.000 thought about what I taught my first line to be, 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.560 and it's all in that opening line in that clause, right, 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:15.360 I wanted to be Morocca Comma, who made people interested 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.240 in things they didn't expect to be interested in. Comma 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.720 died today. He was a D seven period whatever. But 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:26.160 I actually would love him to include my pets book. Um, 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.480 I want them to include my cooking show. Oh yes, 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.480 I forgot to bring this up earlier. I loved that idea. Yeah, 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.720 and I think, um, for a time, I probably would 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.240 have wanted the fact that I was a self taught 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.600 gymnast to be included. But I think at this point 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:47.080 I never learned to do a back hand spring unassisted, 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:48.920 which had been like a goal. By the time I 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.080 had thirty, then it was a goal, but I hit forty. 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:53.440 Then by the time I hit fifty, and I just 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:57.520 think at this point maybe a cause of death concerned. 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.560 So what a hundred and seven? That's when you go 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.840 for it on the backhand spring exactly like I can 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.400 do this, and do you do it perfectly? What a 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.800 great way to go out. If I knew that, okay, 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.560 tomorrow I'm going to die in my sleep, why not 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.040 just go for the hon assisted backhand spring right then? 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.120 That will put you in the history books. Right, absolutely, 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.040 put your camera up and take a little video of it. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:26.400 Like some person in the future will be reading about 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.480 like strange deaths and they'll be like, oh, and then 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.000 that time that Morocca died doing an assistant backhand spring 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:33.480 at the age of a hundred and seven, and they'll 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.080 be like, what we have to do an episode of 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:41.480 this guy. Yeah, he didn't stink the landing something like that. 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:47.560 We'll make sure you have a good headline, like perfection, Maria. 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.120 Do you want to ask the most important question we 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:54.080 ask on all of ours. Holly and I have a 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.440 thing at the end of our Criminalia shows where we 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.200 do a cocktail and mock tail. It's related to the 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.280 topic that we've been talking about, sometimes loosely, sometimes very 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.040 We were wondering before we let you go for your day, 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.920 do you happen to have a favorite cocktail or mocktail? 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.600 I like an old fashioned because there's a part of 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:16.920 me that likes that moment between me and the bartender 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:22.520 where the bartender is thinking, really because you've got to 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.800 get the more the pestle and the cherry and the 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.240 orange and do the muddling. And it's also kind of 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.480 like I'm old fashioned such as it isn't like kind 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.600 of the word muddle anyway, muddling through? Aren't we all 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.840 just trying to muddle through? But yeah, I like that. 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:41.080 But I also have dreams of a cocktail called a 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:45.920 Shirley temple black. Oh yeah, but surely temple black I 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:52.800 guess would be ginger ail with grenadine and is it colua? Right, Holly? Yeah? 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:56.160 What would make it dark? Listen, here's what I would do, 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:03.040 like a black spice drum. No, that's it, that's hitch. Yeah, okay, 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:07.640 we accidentally made a cocktail this time, I know, right, 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.480 So Holly experimented once or twice also with charcoal in 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.120 her cocktails. I have. You have to be really careful 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.639 using activated charcoal to darken a drink, as we always 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.080 tell our listeners, but I say it every time. Don't 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.520 give someone a drink with activated charcoal in it if 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.680 they don't know it, because it will mess up medication 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.480 absorption and whatnot. That's a quick way to do. You 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.800 have to be very very judicious. But I think lately 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:31.960 I've been trying to figure out other ways to make 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.320 drinks that are dark. A little black spice drum is 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.639 usually my go to. Or another one that I've started 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.719 playing with lately is to drop a couple of black 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.400 tea bags in like a mason jar of vodka gin 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.240 and you get a very dark spirit out of that spice, 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.120 or do whatever else you want. There's surely temple black well. 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:56.240 I like that, he go like the end. A friend 0:17:56.280 --> 0:18:01.119 of mine, her husband is Scottish and he probably introduced me, 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.840 I guess, years ago to sort of single malt sculpches 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:07.320 and I love I said, I wanted to taste like dirt. 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.199 What is that? Kind of what charcoal does do it? 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.840 It doesn't add a ton of flavor. It really does 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:17.480 more to just shift the color. But because charcoal absorbs 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.479 everything if you're on a medication, also, like nutrients that 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.119 you eat that day are not going to get to 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.080 yourselves because they're going with the charcoal. So it's one 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.439 of those things you have to be very judicious about. 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:30.199 It's the kind of thing if you're doing like a 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.639 Halloween or some other event where you do a specific 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.120 cocktail that has charcoal in it, you drink one that's 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:39.120 not a this is my drink for the night kind 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.840 of setup. So yeah, this is I know, I only 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.760 go with clean coal technology from my lir. Now this 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:51.320 is what I'm gonna have a gas based cocktail if 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.520 clean burning gas work on that. We've shifted a little 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:57.399 away from history, but I want to make sure we 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.320 thank you Moe for spending this time with this with 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.160 It's a light a way to to talk about history. 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.040 Thank you very much. It's just been a lot of 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.560 fun and I was just I'll go listen to more 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:11.800 Douglas Chandler, but I probably won't. Don't do that. Don't 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.960 do that, but make sure no save Douglas Chandler for 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.639 another day. But I want to make sure that you 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:21.840 tell our listeners where they can find Mobituaries so they 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.160 can get more of these very fun stories, and where 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:29.399 they can find your book. You can find Mobituaries wherever 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.000 you get your podcasts, and you can find a Mobituaries 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:35.640 book and the audio book wherever you get your books. 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.480 We're in the middle of our third season now and 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.639 we have plenty of I hope surprising and engaging stories 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:45.160 coming up the podcast. I love it. I will be listening. 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.200 I can't wait for the last having my episode. I 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:51.760 thank you again Moe for spending this time with us, 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.040 for our listeners. I also want to thank you, and 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.560 I really do hope you check out mobituaries. If you 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.040 love Criminalia, you're going to be addicted instantly, and we 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:01.600 will be right back here next week. We're going to 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.640 talk a little bit more about artists, and then we'll 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:18.160 have another cocktail and we'll see right back here. Criminalia 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.800 is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.280 I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.680 please visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:29.600 wherever you listen to your favorite shows.