Speaker 1: Hey, the folks, it is Friday, July thirty first, and
Speaker 1: can you find Nigeria on a map? Don't worry, neither
Speaker 1: can your government. And with that, welcome to this episode
Speaker 1: of Amy and TJ on what is you can't make
Speaker 1: this stuff up? How perfect is this story and that
Speaker 1: we have now on an international stage, Tropes done something
Speaker 1: that goes right in line with what people think about Americans.
Speaker 1: Y'all don't know nothing about geography.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we confirmed just that whole stereotype of dumb Americans.
Speaker 2: All we know is what we know and where we're
Speaker 2: from and our state. We don't care about the rest
Speaker 2: of the world. Well, yeah, that was pretty much proven
Speaker 2: on an international stage.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is obviously my favorite story today. If you folks,
Speaker 1: we talked about around morning run. But here is the
Speaker 1: bottom line. International AIDS conference happens every year. They move
Speaker 1: into different locations. This year is happening in Urrio, in Brazil.
Speaker 1: Robes US State Department official is given a presentation to
Speaker 1: all those people gathered. Obviously, we know a disproportional amount
Speaker 1: of the devastation and the impact that HIV and AIDS
Speaker 1: has on the world happens in Africa. We understand. So
Speaker 1: he's making a presentation. Robes puts up a map in
Speaker 1: which he shows en lists several countries, shows where those
Speaker 1: countries are, and showed the proposed contribution in financial dollars
Speaker 1: that the US is going to make. Everything sounds fine, great,
Speaker 1: honky dory. What is the problem with his presentation?
Speaker 2: Yes, so this big map, this huge visual display of
Speaker 2: where we are going to put our funding to help
Speaker 2: the people of Africa. We actually designated seven countries that
Speaker 2: we're proposing to help fund sounds good to battle HIV
Speaker 2: and AIDS. The problem is the so those seven countries
Speaker 2: that were shown, along with the amount of funding were
Speaker 2: in the wrong places or along the wrong borders. And
Speaker 2: we're not just talking some of them or one of them.
Speaker 2: Every single country, seven countries, every single one of them
Speaker 2: was miss labeled.
Speaker 1: Oh for seven, we didn't get one right. At an
Speaker 1: international conference in which leaders from African countries were gathered,
Speaker 1: the United States made a presentation and had countries mislabeled
Speaker 1: or in the wrong place or with the wrong outline.
Speaker 1: Even Robes, this is embarrassing, and it sends an embarrassing
Speaker 1: message about how much we care. We didn't even care
Speaker 1: enough to get your countries right on our map.
Speaker 2: It's true. Either we look dumb or indifferent or both,
Speaker 2: and that's the problem. I actually think we look both.
Speaker 2: I mean, we really did confirm both of those things.
Speaker 2: I mean, just put this into perspective. Imagine if you
Speaker 2: put up a big map. European leaders are there, you're
Speaker 2: talking about whatever funding, and you've got Germany listed as
Speaker 2: the boot of Italy. You've got Italy where France should be,
Speaker 2: You've got Ireland where Spain should be. I mean, that
Speaker 2: would be outrageous. People would be up in arms. It
Speaker 2: would be impossible. But that's exactly what happened. But just
Speaker 2: the continent was Africa, not Europe.
Speaker 1: Roads. You're one of two. You're you're ignorant or you're
Speaker 1: an asshole. We are ignorant assholes.
Speaker 2: I was going to be two for two.
Speaker 1: I don't know how this happened. The State Department tried
Speaker 1: to explain how this happened. But there were seven countries. Now,
Speaker 1: let's be honest. You put this in front of most people,
Speaker 1: I don't think you could. Most people would be able
Speaker 1: to pick out seven countries on the continent of Africa.
Speaker 2: I don't think I agree with you. I don't think
Speaker 2: most people could do, but I'm not even sure I
Speaker 2: could do it. I can do a few.
Speaker 1: But yes, we are not ripping anybody for not knowing that.
Speaker 1: The problem here roads is that if you give me no,
Speaker 1: I don't even need two minutes. Give me forty seconds
Speaker 1: and I can confirm before I make a presentation if
Speaker 1: I got the countries right.
Speaker 2: Also, if I'm going to render a map, I'm going
Speaker 2: to double check, because the truth is, honestly, the African
Speaker 2: continents specifically names change, countries, border shift. I mean that
Speaker 2: is absolutely country where that does happen more often than
Speaker 2: maybe on other continents. So that would make you even
Speaker 2: all the more aware of needing to double check what
Speaker 2: year was this map made versus where we are now.
Speaker 2: And yes, you would hope that you would check, confirm,
Speaker 2: and maybe even double confirm that you had the map
Speaker 2: correct before you make a huge display and stand there
Speaker 2: in front of the leaders of said countries.
Speaker 1: Bless his or her little heart, the person that puts
Speaker 1: this together, and we do not want to look. A
Speaker 1: mistake was made. Obviously a mistake here was made a
Speaker 1: huge mistake. And before we even give you the answer
Speaker 1: to how the mistake was made. You're probably already thinking
Speaker 1: of how it was made. We'll explain in just a second.
Speaker 1: The countries themselves, Nigeria, Robes. It was shown on this
Speaker 1: map by the State Department at this presentation. It was
Speaker 1: shown as a landlocked country in the Sahara, in the Sahara,
Speaker 1: you know up there.
Speaker 2: With the desert.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's shown as a land locked country in the Sahara.
Speaker 2: Actually though it's sub Saharan, much farther west, and it's
Speaker 2: along the coast.
Speaker 1: Yes, it has a water border. It does have, all right,
Speaker 1: Ivory Coast. The map that the State Department used it
Speaker 1: was shown also as landlocked and in the southeastern part
Speaker 1: of Africa.
Speaker 2: I will tell you this is one I would have known.
Speaker 2: It's actually along the western coast of Africa. I said coast,
Speaker 2: so western Africa and on the coast. I mean that
Speaker 2: is what I actually can visually see. I guess because
Speaker 2: there was so much maybe because we were maybe this.
Speaker 2: Whoever was responsible for this is of a certain age,
Speaker 2: because there were so many headlines about the Ivory Coast.
Speaker 2: And I've been to Nigeria, so I had that.
Speaker 1: And have you watched the World Cup. I mean there's a.
Speaker 2: Lot of reasons that is so true.
Speaker 1: This is the equivalent of labeling Oregon as being Alabama.
Speaker 2: Right, it's not even close.
Speaker 1: They're that far off on the map. It's hilarious. Mozambique,
Speaker 1: it was shown on this map by the State Department
Speaker 1: as landlocked in the eastern part of the country in
Speaker 1: the Horn of Africa. That's in the north eastern part.
Speaker 2: You said northeastern, correct, it was, yes, because Mozambique is
Speaker 2: actually in the southeastern part of Africa and again on
Speaker 2: the coast.
Speaker 1: Hey, they were both eastern.
Speaker 2: So hey, that's just in opposite directions. That might be
Speaker 2: the equivalent of Washington State and I guess California.
Speaker 1: The other one Cameroon. Cameroon was shown west of Nigeria
Speaker 1: on this map. It was shown as being west of
Speaker 1: Nigeria and not bordering Nigeria but to the west of it.
Speaker 1: That was the State Department.
Speaker 2: Map, all right, But the actual location of Cameroon is
Speaker 2: that it borders eastern Nigeria and once again is on
Speaker 2: the coast.
Speaker 1: Now, the two they kind of got close to Malawi
Speaker 1: and Uganda. They were in the general right area, but
Speaker 1: the borders were all messed up. So it wasn't correct. Rose.
Speaker 2: You know what the border of your country looks like.
Speaker 2: You know what the border of your state looks like.
Speaker 1: Yes, I can reckon I have Yes, Arkansas is tattooed
Speaker 1: on me. You might not be able to recognize well
Speaker 1: you know of course now, but some people might not
Speaker 1: be able to Yes.
Speaker 2: But if it's your state. My point is those country leaders,
Speaker 2: they know country borders look like like you like people. Yes,
Speaker 2: you have tattoos of it. We have T shirts are
Speaker 2: made of state borders. It's a thing. It's a it's
Speaker 2: a part of your your national or your perhaps state pride.
Speaker 1: Home.
Speaker 2: People have those T shirts and then it has the borders.
Speaker 2: So as people might discount that like, oh, big deal,
Speaker 2: they got the borders wrong, it does. It is a
Speaker 2: big deal that that's like part of the identity of
Speaker 2: your country. Your borders are just a part of how
Speaker 2: it's a recognition. It's so when something's off or completely
Speaker 2: misdrawn and in the wrong location, that's jarring.
Speaker 1: And offensive, and it's offensive. It's offensive. God bless her.
Speaker 1: Aaron Andrews. I never drope to this day. I don't
Speaker 1: know how many years it was. She was at an
Speaker 1: Arkansas football game, and she called them the Arizona Razorbacks,
Speaker 1: and almost never forgave her because that was I'm so
Speaker 1: that the pride in that that, Wow, we have this
Speaker 1: national stage and you're not going to get the name
Speaker 1: of mine. Look, it was a little flub, It was nothing,
Speaker 1: no big deal. She knew she was standing in Arkansas.
Speaker 2: And conflated that I'm saying it to me as your point.
Speaker 1: I took it so personally and was offended in that moment.
Speaker 1: Robes that had to be ten who that's.
Speaker 2: Funny and you still remember and still.
Speaker 1: So to your point to be sitting there and you're
Speaker 1: not even getting no boort. That's not my country. Yes,
Speaker 1: that pissed some people off.
Speaker 2: Well, and if that didn't piss them off enough, the
Speaker 2: explanation sure had to have.
Speaker 1: This makes okay. I say, it makes sense that it
Speaker 1: did happen. It doesn't make sense that you would do this.
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of people might have been thinking, Broes,
Speaker 1: this was a lazy effort by.
Speaker 2: Someone correct and the State Department's official response or apology,
Speaker 2: I guess kind of. We'd take full responsibility for the
Speaker 2: confusion and misrepresentation it caused. For attendees, including our African partners.
Speaker 2: And then their explanation was.
Speaker 1: They say an aid was in a hurry and made
Speaker 1: a change to the presentation last minute, and that is
Speaker 1: all they said. However, Reuters and other news organizations that
Speaker 1: were their robes, I don't not familiar with it, but
Speaker 1: they say there's a particular mark that is left on
Speaker 1: this presentation that lets you know this was done by
Speaker 1: open ai. Open aied a presentation on the international stage,
Speaker 1: and this is what happens.
Speaker 2: And that means if they opened ai did, they didn't
Speaker 2: double check it, they didn't cross reference it. They just
Speaker 2: took exactly what open ai, chat, GPT whatever just spit
Speaker 2: out to them. And how often you know, we hear
Speaker 2: our kids using this all the time, and it makes
Speaker 2: me so nervous because as we prepare for our podcasts
Speaker 2: every single day, including Morning Run, you get a little
Speaker 2: AI a lot of times in your Google searches. I
Speaker 2: cannot tell you how many times it has been completely wrong,
Speaker 2: and I've actually been astounded. I should take screen grabs
Speaker 2: every time it pops up something that is actually patently false,
Speaker 2: and I know it is, but I think, my god,
Speaker 2: any young journalist, any young college student just takes that
Speaker 2: as the word of God and goes with it, and
Speaker 2: that is seemingly what happened. But that is so sloppy,
Speaker 2: that is so lazy. That is actually dangerous and could
Speaker 2: have like the implication and the impact that this has,
Speaker 2: Like we don't even know, but the level of offense
Speaker 2: has to be pretty high, and like that could have
Speaker 2: done and may have done real damage.
Speaker 1: And it goes in line, unfortunately with what people think.
Speaker 1: It goes in line with what our policy even Robes.
Speaker 1: We have and talked about this plenty over the years.
Speaker 1: And Trump administration, Yes, pull funding, take back funding, So
Speaker 1: you're saying through your financial contributions that you don't care
Speaker 1: as much about the continent and what's happening there. Something
Speaker 1: like this just kind of the final nail. Yep, this
Speaker 1: is no surprise, but the level of offense, you don't
Speaker 1: even care to get this right, the level of offense
Speaker 1: and an honest and innocent mistake was aid. It just
Speaker 1: shouldn't a lesson. Maybe is learned, but how must they
Speaker 1: be feeling Robes that it's highly offensive? It is highly offensive,
Speaker 1: but Robes, it goes along with Americans suck at geography,
Speaker 1: where did that come from, Well, it actually came from
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of years, of a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: surveys and a whole bunch of studies about how well
Speaker 1: Americans do in geography. We don't do well. You will
Speaker 1: be shocked to know how many people can't even tell
Speaker 1: you where the state of New York is.
Speaker 2: Stay here, welcome back to Amy and TJ. Yes, we
Speaker 2: have been talking about what the State Department did on
Speaker 2: the world stage there in Rio dejian Era put up
Speaker 2: a huge display of the African continent, talking to African
Speaker 2: leaders about proposed funding to battle AIDS and HIV, and
Speaker 2: we put seven the seven countries we were highlighting and
Speaker 2: talking about each and every one of them in the
Speaker 2: wrong place, some of them with the wrong borders, some
Speaker 2: of them in the completely opposite part of the continent
Speaker 2: that they actually exist in. And unfortunately it's just part
Speaker 2: of the course, apparently for Americans this is what we do.
Speaker 1: Do we even get offended anymore when people say, man,
Speaker 1: y'all are terrible is geography? We just own it? Own it?
Speaker 2: How can we not, because it's the truth.
Speaker 1: Okay, So there have been over the years plenty they
Speaker 1: call it I'm forgetting the geographic literacy, what they call.
Speaker 2: Geographic illiteracy in this in this situation.
Speaker 1: That those words were thrown around as well. But National
Speaker 1: Geographic has done a number of these studies over the year.
Speaker 1: They're kind of all over the place, but consistent. I
Speaker 1: so I'm giving you some of the latest numbers from
Speaker 1: studies that come from twenty twelve and twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: So I'm bouncing around a little bit there, but it's
Speaker 1: still consistent. Let me tell you what some of the
Speaker 1: stuff we found growths. Folks were given a test to
Speaker 1: pick out Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and a Raq on
Speaker 1: a map. Now, they weren't just given the map of
Speaker 1: the world and say find it, no, no, no. It
Speaker 1: was handed to in front of them the region the
Speaker 1: Middle East. So the number of people, the percentage who
Speaker 1: could get these right. Only thirty one percent could find
Speaker 1: Israel was shown a map of the Middle.
Speaker 2: East, the center of the world.
Speaker 1: Some whould argue every day on the news Israel for
Speaker 1: the past how many decades couldn't find it? Only forty
Speaker 1: five percent could find Iran, Only forty nine percent could
Speaker 1: find Iraq, but sixty one percent could find Saudi Arabias.
Speaker 2: It's big there. It is like the state of Texas there.
Speaker 1: It is now Afghanistan. Ninety percent of eighteen to twenty
Speaker 1: four year olds could not find Afghanists.
Speaker 2: That's shocking to me.
Speaker 1: On a map, Now, Sudan and Rwanda, I wanted to
Speaker 1: throw this in there, Sudan and Rwanda, where are they?
Speaker 1: Apparently most people don't know Rodes. Fifty four percent in
Speaker 1: the survey did not know Sudan was in at Africa.
Speaker 2: They didn't know what continent Sudan was in. Twenty percent
Speaker 2: thought it was in Asia, ten percent thought it was
Speaker 2: in Europe, and forty percent of people didn't know Rwanda
Speaker 2: was in Africa. That is mind blowing to me. And
Speaker 2: again maybe it's because we're of a certain age, but
Speaker 2: it was so much in the headlines. How do you
Speaker 2: not know that Rwanda is in the continent of Africa.
Speaker 1: That don Cheatle was in that Oscar winning movie. If
Speaker 1: nothing else, you should know that. Now, Rose, this is
Speaker 1: where it's going to start to get bizarre. Where is
Speaker 1: Mississippi and where's Louisiana? Surely Americans could pick those two out,
Speaker 1: could they not? Robes About half could find Mississippi. Fifty
Speaker 1: two percent could find Mississippi, sixty seven percent could find Louisiana.
Speaker 1: And this was the New York state one.
Speaker 2: Only fifty percent of Americans could could tell you where
Speaker 2: New York is on a map.
Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2: With all again, we talked about borders before the break,
Speaker 2: the New York border like that is so specific to
Speaker 2: me that but maybe it's because I've lived here for
Speaker 2: two decades.
Speaker 1: And frankly robes New York is a weirdly shaped state.
Speaker 1: It's connecting to.
Speaker 2: Some differentiable because of it. Yeah, that's my point.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm saying it's kind of a mess up there.
Speaker 1: Why am I making excuses for people who can't find you? Sorry,
Speaker 1: go back to the UK and Egypt. These seem to
Speaker 1: be that was a pretty prominent right.
Speaker 2: I feel like you should know. Yes, yes, I feel
Speaker 2: very confident that most people should be able to find
Speaker 2: the United Kingdom and.
Speaker 1: Egypt couldn't find it. SEV could not find Egypt on
Speaker 1: the map. Apparently it's close to Nigeria.
Speaker 2: Did they know it was in Africa?
Speaker 1: That's a good question, you know what.
Speaker 2: Probably not, Probably not because thought it was Middle East
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 1: It always throws people off. Now I leave left this
Speaker 1: one for the end, and this is the doozy for
Speaker 1: you folks. This was the quiz folks were given. Can
Speaker 1: you identify these seven US states? These are pretty big ones. California, Texas, Louisiana, Nevada, Mississippi,
Speaker 1: New York, and Ohio. You've already heard not too many
Speaker 1: people could find New York. But out of those seven states,
Speaker 1: how many could people get correct?
Speaker 2: On average?
Speaker 1: On average? When people said, hey, find these seven states,
Speaker 1: what's the average that people got right?
Speaker 2: This is so sad. I didn't know this was three
Speaker 2: point four that's all they could find. Less than half.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when asked to find these seven and these.
Speaker 2: Are the obvious ones they're not asking about. Like, I
Speaker 2: always feel like it gets a little tricky in the Midwest.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Yes, like sometimes with Indiana, Illinois, some Ohio you're throwing
Speaker 1: some what else? Some Dakotas might throw you off. Oklahoma
Speaker 1: and Kansas. Maybe because the shapes are a little similar.
Speaker 1: You start going out to Utah and what Colorado they
Speaker 1: all look like the same corners.
Speaker 2: Yes, very confused, Yes, but these are California.
Speaker 1: Everybody should get that one right.
Speaker 2: Texas everybody should get that Louisiana.
Speaker 1: But after you go through California and Texas and you
Speaker 1: say people only got three point four, right.
Speaker 2: They didn't one that is so obvious. That's such a
Speaker 2: specific shape. Mississippi, New York, Ohio. Ohio was the least recognized.
Speaker 2: And I maybe I could give you that a little bit.
Speaker 2: It's so uniquely, but it is I know, that's what
Speaker 2: I This is sad and this is a you know
Speaker 2: what this speaks to our education system period. I will
Speaker 2: always say that I you know, you remember some teachers.
Speaker 2: I remember doctor King. He was our world history teacher
Speaker 2: senior year in high school. Our final exam was only
Speaker 2: this a world map and we had to place every
Speaker 2: single country in the world. And I studied for months
Speaker 2: because everyone knew that was your final your senior year.
Speaker 2: And look, obviously the world has changed in the Eastern
Speaker 2: European and African areas. But I'd always thought that was
Speaker 2: so cool and it prepared me. Honestly, that was so
Speaker 2: useful to me for the rest of my life going forward.
Speaker 2: Every single class should have a final with that exam,
Speaker 2: even maybe just make it the United States or maybe
Speaker 2: the Americas or something. But this is so sad that
Speaker 2: we not only are known for not thinking about others
Speaker 2: or considering other countries, we don't even give a damn
Speaker 2: where they are or anything about their countries. That is
Speaker 2: just appalling.
Speaker 1: In some of these service people's still robes at least
Speaker 1: responded by saying, it is important to know about borders.
Speaker 1: It is important to know world geography. I don't have
Speaker 1: the exact number, but there are very few states that
Speaker 1: require geography to be taught in school upon graduation. It's
Speaker 1: just not required. You get it in social studies a
Speaker 1: little bit, but it's just not a focus robes. And
Speaker 1: there's a danger in not understanding the world. I see,
Speaker 1: how do you How are you going to vote for
Speaker 1: a politician who's telling you about foreign policy when you
Speaker 1: don't even know where the damn country is that he's
Speaker 1: talking about. Like, you need to be engaged and involved
Speaker 1: and give a damn about what's going on in the world,
Speaker 1: and that starts with knowing where the world is outside
Speaker 1: of your borders. Yeah, this is and you should just
Speaker 1: want to rodes. I don't like that feeling looking at
Speaker 1: a map of going where is that or what is that?
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's curiosity and we need more of
Speaker 2: it and we need to inspire it more in our youth.
Speaker 2: We should all know that Sue Dan isn't a member
Speaker 2: of the European Union. Just to me. That one really
Speaker 2: threw me. Wow.
Speaker 1: And who knew? But half of y'all listening don't know
Speaker 1: where New York State is.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's half of y'all listening, is
Speaker 2: it any younger people? We'd love more younger listeners, so
Speaker 2: we shouldn't offend.
Speaker 1: Oh well, folks, pick up a map today, all right,
Speaker 1: We always appreciate you. This again, we don't want to
Speaker 1: be too hard. The person that made this mistake, we
Speaker 1: don't know who they are, but it just it sends
Speaker 1: a terrible message and it sends one that's on brand
Speaker 1: for us. But it gives us a chance, Roses to
Speaker 1: maybe take a minute, have a conversation and realize, yes,
Speaker 1: we need to do better at this. And with that, folks,
Speaker 1: we always appreciate you spending some time with us. Some
Speaker 1: TJ that's Robes. Talk soon.