1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,279 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and welcome to Next Question 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: on today's episode. I knew from the first time I 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: picked up the ball this was something I wanted to 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: do the rest of my life. Just in time for 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: March Madness, I sit down with Muffett McGraw, head coach 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: of the Notre Dame women's basketball team. Muffett is one 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: of the winningess coaches in the history of the sport, 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: one of just five coaches in men or women's Division 9 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: one basketball with more than nine hundred and twenty career wins. 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,279 Speaker 1: She's led the Fighting Irish to the Final four an 11 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: impressive nine times and has taken home the national championship 12 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: titled twice, most recently and memorably in two thousand eighteen, 13 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: when Notre Dame one with a heart thumping buzzer beater 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: hon Jennifer j Seventeen years to the day, the Notre 15 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: Dame party as Hall of Famer. Muffett McGraw is now 16 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: in her thirty third season at Notre Dame, but she's 17 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,919 Speaker 1: always been an outspoken advocate for women in sports. In fact, 18 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: during the n C Double A Final four last year, 19 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 1: her impassioned press conference about the need for more women 20 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: leaders went viral. We don't have enough female role models, 21 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: we don't have enough visible women leaders, We don't have 22 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: enough women in power. Girls are socialized to know when 23 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: they come out, generals are already set. Men run the world. 24 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: Men have the power, Men make the decisions. But wouldn't 25 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: it be great if we could teach them to watch 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: how women lead. When you look at men's basketball and 27 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: the jobs go to men, why shouldn't one of the 28 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: jobs and women's basketball go to women? Right now? Few 29 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: women sit at the top of the college athletics food chain. 30 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: If you look at one of the most powerful jobs 31 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: at athletic director, only ten percent of them nationwide are 32 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: women today, though you'll meet one of them. Growing up 33 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: in the industry, there were that many um female role 34 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: models in key decision making positions in athletics. Carla Williams 35 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: made history in two thousand seventeen when she became the 36 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: University of Virginia's athletic director, the first African American woman 37 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: to lead athletics at one of the Power five Conference schools, 38 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: the highest most competitive level of college sports. As ironic 39 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: as it is, most of my mentors athletic director mentors 40 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: are men. Later, Carla tells us what it's been like 41 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: being a pioneer in this male dominated field. But first, 42 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: Muffatt McCraw on what's behind the lack of diversity in 43 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: college sports and how she forged her own path. So 44 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: my next question in college sports, when are women like 45 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: Carla Williams and Muffett McGraw going to be the rule 46 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: not the exception. If there's any indication of how good 47 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: a leader Muffett McGraw really is, just look to what 48 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,399 Speaker 1: her players go on to accomplish. A Women's Basketball Hall 49 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: of Famer, two Olympians, twenty two All Americans, and twenty 50 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: two current or former w NBA players, not to mention 51 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: a number of coaches at the professional and college level. 52 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: This is Beth Cunningham. I played for coach mraw, graduated 53 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: in nine and I'm also in my eighth year coaching 54 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: alongside her at the University of Notre Dame. Beth Cunningham 55 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: is Notre Dame's associate head coach. She's one of a 56 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: few former players we asked to talk about how Muffett 57 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: shaped their lives on and off the court. She has 58 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: taught me how to be a confident leader and how 59 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: to lead. She's taught me the importance of doing things 60 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: the right way, not necessarily the easiest way, but the 61 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: right way. Mamma has taught me how as a woman 62 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: to go after what I want from life, so to 63 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: speak up for myself and other women at all opportunities. 64 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: That's Sarah leive Shirt, another former Muffett McGraw player and 65 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: one of the Originals Class of Sarah is now the 66 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: director of Athletics Advancement at Notre Dame. She taught me 67 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: how to be resilient in the face of adversity, how 68 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: to work harder than my mind and body thought capable, 69 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: and ultimately that to strive to be as good as 70 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: a man is to underachieved. Over the course of her 71 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: forty plus year career, Muffett has had the chance to 72 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: influence a lot of young women, but she says she 73 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: never really set out to become a role model. I 74 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: don't think I went into it thinking I'm going to 75 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: be able to mold these young women, and I'm going 76 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: to be able to teach these women something about um 77 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: how they can step up and use their voice. You know. 78 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: I don't think it was anything like that it was 79 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: all about just the game, and that love of the 80 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: game goes way back to her days as a little 81 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: girl playing on the neighborhood courts in a Philadelphia suburb. 82 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: Growing up in that time, no social media, there was, 83 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: you know, really you left the house, your mom didn't 84 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: know exactly where you were, and it was always I 85 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: was down at the playground, Me and nine guys down 86 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: at the playground. And you know, sports was always sort 87 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: of a meritocracy. If you can earn it, if you 88 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: have the ability, you're gonna get in the game. So 89 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: I was fortunate that I was able to get in 90 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,799 Speaker 1: the game and nobody ever look twice at me. Muffett 91 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: started playing basketball well before Title nine was passed in 92 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: ninety two. That law, you might recall, was part of 93 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: a sweeping set of education amendments that made it illegal 94 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: for any institution receiving federal funding to discriminate on the 95 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: basis of sex. That met Schools at every level, from 96 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: elementary to college were expected to provide equal opportunities to 97 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: their male and female students, both in the classroom and 98 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: in the gym. And it was lucky for Muffett back then, 99 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: her Catholic high school was surprisingly progressive. Hard to believe, 100 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: as this is the Catholic Church. The Archdiocese of Philadelphia 101 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: was way ahead of Title nine. So girls were playing 102 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: basketball in the leads and I know in the sixties. 103 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: I'm not even sure if it was before that, but 104 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: way before Title nine came out in the early seventies, 105 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: they had teams for girls. But the program did have 106 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: its limitations. When I was playing in the early seventies, 107 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: we were playing six on six at that time, which 108 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: was horrible and not even a real game of basketball. 109 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: It started out three on three at each end, then 110 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: it graduated two two at each end, with rovers going 111 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: back and forth, and then finally in high school we 112 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: got back to five on five, but we still had 113 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: to do it while wearing a skirt. Oh, that's so funny. 114 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: That must have been kind of awkward at times. Oh 115 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: my god, let's not forget our femininity as uh, you know, 116 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: childbirth is a pain free experience, but running up and 117 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: down a basketball court, boy, that's that's something we're not 118 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: ready for. That's so funny. Well, it's nice to get 119 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church a little bit of credit for being progressive, 120 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: at least in that arena, right, Yeah, for women, that's 121 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: very unusual for them. Yeah. So meanwhile, you played basketball 122 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: at St. Joseph's University and women's varsity basketball was pretty 123 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: much brand new there. What was it like back then 124 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: to play at the college level or did you feel 125 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: like you were, you know, very well prepared for that 126 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: given your high school experience. Well, it was the first 127 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: year it was a sport at St. Joe's, first year 128 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: returned varsity, so I was thrilled just to be a 129 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: part of it. There were no athletic scholarships. You paid 130 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: your own way, We did our own laundry, We we 131 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: drove ourselves to games. That was completely unlike what's going 132 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: on now and and completely different from what the men 133 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: were going through. We used to sit on the sidelines 134 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: and wait for them to finish practice, and they would 135 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,239 Speaker 1: practice for as long as they wanted, whenever they wanted, 136 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: and we would just wait patiently, waiting on the side 137 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: until they finished. And it sounds like the Muffett sounds 138 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: like the guys were real jerks. They could be. I mean, 139 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: they thought very highly of themselves in their programs and 140 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: not very highly of you all, and kind of I 141 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: think you know, sort of dismissed your desire to play. Yeah, 142 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: I think I think they absolutely did that. And you know, socially, 143 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: it wasn't that accepted at that time for women to 144 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: be playing sports. So we had to fight against a 145 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: lot of stereotypes and we didn't have a lot of advantages. 146 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: But we just we played for love of the game, 147 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: and that's that's all we cared about, was that we 148 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: love what we're doing. But how did you start to 149 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: kind of develop your leadership skills? You know? I think 150 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: it started way back when I was playing at the 151 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: playground down there with the nine guys. I think that 152 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: some of the things that you learn. There's so many 153 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: great lessons that sports teaches you about work ethic and 154 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: sacrifice and being a team player and and understanding your role. 155 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: A little self awareness is always good. But the thing 156 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: I learned from playing down at the playground, there's no supervision, 157 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: there's no referees, So you learned conflict resolution. You learn 158 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: that you have to stand up for yourself. Um know, 159 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: the ball was in or out? Who hit it out? 160 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: Did I get fouled? And you start to learn how 161 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: people look at each other and if you're the kind 162 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: of guy that is calling a foul every time you 163 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 1: miss a shot. You find out that people don't want 164 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: you on their team anymore. They're not going to enjoy 165 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: playing with you. So I think you kind of learn 166 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: a lot about personalities, how you can talk to some 167 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: people a little differently than others. But I think the 168 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: thing that fascinates me about leadership is how different so 169 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: many leaders are and they can all be successful. There's introverts, 170 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: there's extroverts. Uh, there's people that listen a little bit more, 171 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: there's people that talk a little bit more. But I 172 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: think the biggest thing is leading by example. Is is 173 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: something that I always tell my team that's expected, that 174 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: that's that's something that you have to do. That's not leadership. 175 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: Leadership is not being afraid to use your voice, and 176 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: especially as a woman um starting out with not a 177 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: lot of people supporting us, you had to be able 178 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: to go out and really understand that this is what 179 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: I want, this is what I'm gonna say, and you 180 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: can't think that much about what other people are going 181 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: to say about it. What made you decide to give 182 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: coaching a try? Well, I graduated from St. Joe's. I 183 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: was a sociology criminal justice major, and I just really 184 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: wanted to save the world, and I had no idea 185 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: what that meant sociology. Not a lot of jobs really 186 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: out there in the local high school. Job opened, and 187 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: so I thought, yeah, I'll give it a try. I 188 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: wanted to stay in basketball, but there was wasn't the 189 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: opportunity to play professionally, so I took the job at 190 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: Archbishop Carol. In my first practice, I was just completely 191 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: consumed and knew this, this is definitely a passion that 192 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: I'm going to pursue. You know. It was all about 193 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: offense and defense, and I just I love puzzles. I 194 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: loved just kind of doodling on napkins and watching games. 195 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: And of course we don't have any female role models 196 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: back then, so I'd watch the NBA, I look at 197 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: things that they were doing and try to bring that 198 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: back to the women's side. I know that you had 199 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: a short lived stint at the Women's Professional Basketball Association, 200 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: and I'm curious what that was like for you, because 201 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: that was a precursor to the w n b A. 202 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: That was exciting for me. It was nineteen eighty I 203 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: played in California and mar team with the California Dreams. 204 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: So my husband got to wear a shirt that said 205 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: my wife is a dream and we would, uh, we 206 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: would go to the arena and we could count the 207 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: number of people there during the national anthem and probably 208 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: named most of them. Um. So it didn't get quite 209 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: the attention. The league eventually folded because of financial problems. 210 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: My contract was for eleven thousand dollars and I thought 211 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: it was the greatest thing ever, And you know, I 212 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: knew it was going to be a difficult thing to start. 213 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: But we've gone a long way obviously since then. I mean, 214 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: things have grown tremendously and I think they're getting better 215 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: now with Kathy Engelbert in charge of the w n 216 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 1: b A, but we still have such a long way 217 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: to go. What were some of the challenges back then 218 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: to kind of get women's professional basketball to a place 219 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: where people were supportive. I think the first thing was 220 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: just having some media attention and right now and I 221 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: think even today, I think we get about four percent 222 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,719 Speaker 1: of media attention across all of um, you know, through 223 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: ESPN or newspapers or whatever kind of if there's news 224 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: out there anymore, we we just don't get any attention 225 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: people didn't even know we had a league, and I 226 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: think there's still some people that are unsure about the 227 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: w n b A. So I think we need to 228 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: have a little more better marketing advertising. It's a great product. 229 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: I think people have to come out and see it 230 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: and they'll get hooked on it. It's happening in college. 231 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: I think attendance has grown over the years. I think 232 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: people are getting more excited about it. We're getting a 233 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: little more exposure. I think we're on TV quite a bit, 234 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: and I think that's really helping us. But we just 235 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: have so much further to go when you look at 236 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: what's happening on the men's side, and and nobody wants 237 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: the w n b A where thinks they should be 238 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: comparable to the NBA. Not not yet, um, but I 239 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: think that we need to make some strides. And you 240 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: see what the soccer team is doing suing for equal pay. 241 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that muffet about 242 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: how if there's kind of, gosh, a ripple effect with 243 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: what you see going on in women's soccer, and if 244 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: that's reaching other women's sports and kind of you know, 245 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: a rising tide lifting all boats idea. Yeah, that's that's 246 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: what we're hoping. And I think there's a couple of 247 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: other sports. I think there's a women's ice hockey is 248 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: trying to do the same thing. I think women's tennis 249 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: has probably done the best job. Women's golf is still 250 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: struggling with that. Um, I think all women's sports, and 251 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: I think just we we just have to change the 252 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: attitude of how we're looked at. I was gonna say 253 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: media attention is one thing, and obviously, you know they're 254 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: kind of inextricably linked attitudes and and impressions and media exposure. 255 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: But but how much of it is just, you know, 256 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: gender stereotypes that started when we were you and I 257 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: were young, and that still exists in so much of 258 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: the population today. I think most of it still comes 259 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: from that, just from the way you're raised. I think 260 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: when you look at the way people raise their sons 261 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: and their daughters, and you look at the differences and 262 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: how they talk to them, what they compliment them for. Um, 263 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 1: I think we're so busy telling our daughters how pretty 264 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: they are, and we never tell them how smart they are. 265 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: Trying to say that all the time to my daughters. 266 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: I have two girls and you know, I really stop myself, 267 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: even if I think they look prettier, I like their 268 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: dress or their outfit or whatever. When they were growing 269 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: up there now twenty eight and twenty four, but I 270 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: always say, you know, you're so smarter, you tried so hard. 271 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: Now they're saying that girls and boys should be should 272 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: be complimented for their grit and their effort. Um that 273 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: that that really is is much more helpful, obviously than 274 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: even saying you're smart. It's saying, wow, you really tried hard, 275 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: you really worked hard, and that's that's great. I think 276 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: that's so important because so often you see parents, especially 277 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: at sporting events. You know, they want their their child 278 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: to be the best. They want them to shoot more, 279 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: they want them to do more, they want them to 280 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: play more. If if they don't, it's the coach's fault. Um, 281 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: So I don't think they have the right perspective instead 282 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: of looking at it and saying, well, you know, look 283 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: at I love the way your teammates react to you 284 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: when when you say something, everybody's listening. I think you're 285 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: a really good leader. I think you're a great teammate. 286 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: You effort today was terrific. I saw you dive in 287 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: for loose balls. I saw you hustling really hard, and 288 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: everybody really appreciated that effort and things that you really 289 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: can look at and say, this is important, and then 290 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: they start to know that it's it's not about how 291 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: many points you scored. Um, it's really about the way 292 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: you play the game. Hi, this is Melissa leack Lightner, 293 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: a class of two thousand and ten. I played point 294 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: guard for coach Murraw, which everybody knows is her favorite 295 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: position on the floor. Melissa leack Lightner is the regional 296 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: director of Notre Dame Athletics Advancement, a department that focuses 297 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: on outreach and fundraising. Coach probably doesn't even realize the 298 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: ways that she impacts her players lives. Obviously, she challenged 299 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: us mentally and physically day in and day out, but 300 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: she always made you feel and believe that you are 301 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: so much more than basketball. She has helped me grow 302 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: into the woman that I am personally and professionally. She 303 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: really just empowers you to be your authentic self. And 304 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: she's always a phone call away, meeting a lunch. You know, 305 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: if you need advice or support, I would not be 306 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: who I am or where I am today without coach 307 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: and Notre Dame, I also probably wouldn't be as paranoid 308 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: about showing up on time and so afraid of being 309 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: late without her when we come back, Muffett explains why 310 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: the law that was supposed to change everything still hasn't 311 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: fixed the massive gender gap in sports leadership. Muffatt McCraw 312 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: was named head coach of Notre Dame's women's basketball back 313 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: in fifteen years after Title nine was enacted, and while 314 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: the number of female athletes at the college level has 315 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: skyrocketed since then, the equal resources part of the law 316 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: isn't necessarily being addressed. Title nine was the best thing 317 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: for women ever. I mean, we went from about two 318 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: hundred thousand girls playing sports to two million. Um. It 319 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: was just a great thing for women, giving the opportunities 320 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: and seeing how much they wanted those opportunities. But it 321 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: really didn't take effect. I think for years and years. 322 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: I'm still wondering if if it's taken effect even now. 323 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: And why do you think that's the case. You know, 324 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: I think that there's a couple of there was three 325 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: prongs to Title nine that you had to come up 326 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: with as a university, and and I think they were 327 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: pretty easy to say, yes, we've given them opportunities. Um, 328 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: you know, whatever they're looking for, we've satisfied this. But 329 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: what is the emotional part? You know, it was the support, 330 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: financial support that we didn't have. You know, the men 331 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: or flying places were taken a bus. There's you know, 332 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: eating at nice places were at McDonald's and so there 333 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: was just a lot of things. I think that emotional 334 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: support as a whole laundry list of things that you 335 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: want to look at and say it's equal, but you know, 336 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: it really isn't the attention that we're getting. You know, 337 00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: when are we playing our games as opposed to one 338 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: they're playing their games. Um, there's just so many things 339 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: you have to look at. So de facto discrimination kind 340 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: of lived on. Yeah, I think most schools willingly added 341 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: sports and did whatever they could, but it was financially 342 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: it was difficult, and I think a lot of people thought, 343 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: if you're gonna add women sports, you're gonna have to 344 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: cut men's sports. And that was not exactly what happened. 345 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: That was not ever intended to happen, and I think 346 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: people use that as an excuse. So instead of just 347 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: adding and we need more money, We're gonna have to 348 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: make more money to be able to support these sports 349 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: instead of cutting men's sports. So it was a great 350 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: idea in theory, but in practice it really did take 351 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: a many many years to go into effect, and some 352 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: might argue it still hasn't fully leveled the playing field, 353 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: so to speak. No, it really hasn't. I think it 354 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: has come a long way, though, And I think that 355 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: when we started out, you know, coaches, maybe more were women. 356 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 1: So everybody coaching a women's team was a woman who 357 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: had been a pioneer and started out playing back before 358 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: Title nine. And I think a lot of women thought, well, 359 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: when we have a good program, when I'm winning enough, 360 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: when I'm in a position where i can talk more, 361 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: And I would look at that and say, if I'm 362 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: not fighting for my team, what are they going to think? 363 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: How am I representing them? How am I teaching them anything? 364 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: So we started to fight a little bit more for 365 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: just facilities and travel and assistant coaches salaries and so 366 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: many different things. And I think that women have to 367 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: fight for themselves because unfortunately, not many people are fighting 368 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: for us. It was very depressing preparing for this interview. 369 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: I learned that two years after Title nine became law, 370 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: of women's teams and college sports had female coaches, but 371 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: today that number is just under forty two percent. What 372 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: the heck is going on? Well, what happened was eventually 373 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: the salaries grew and I think we got to a 374 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: point and this wasn't until probably late in the nineties 375 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: that coaching women's basketball actually became something that was worthwhile 376 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: as a in terms of financially, and so you saw 377 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: a lot of men coming over into our game. They 378 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,479 Speaker 1: either couldn't get a job on the men's side, they 379 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: was it was too much dues paying, they had to 380 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: wait too long to have that opportunity. But if they 381 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: went on the women's side, they could walk in and 382 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: be a head coach a lot sooner than they could 383 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: on the men's side. And so a lot of the 384 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: jobs turned into obviously men men coaching on the women's side, 385 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: and so they had so many more opportunities than women 386 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: because they could coach on on either side. And the 387 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: problem also was the athletic directors, mostly white men, are 388 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: going to hire people who look like them, and I 389 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: think men have a very different way of networking of 390 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: applying for jobs, of promoting themselves that women just don't do. 391 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: And I think that it was easy. And they go 392 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:40,919 Speaker 1: and talk to the men's coach and say, what do 393 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: you think about this guy? Do you think he could 394 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,239 Speaker 1: take over the women's team, And and that's pretty much 395 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: how it got started. You know, if I hear another 396 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: story about a man failing up, I'm gonna like slip 397 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: my wrist. I mean, every day I hear about somebody 398 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: with some job and I'm like, what, wait a second, 399 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: I thought they really screwed up. And then for women, 400 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: you have the glass cliff. You know, once they get 401 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: into a leadership position, if you know it, it doesn't 402 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: go perfectly. You know, Sayanara exactly. And that's we see 403 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: it on in sports or not. You see recycled coaches. 404 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: They get fired from one job, they move on to another. 405 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: But when it happens to a woman, it's very, very 406 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: difficult for them to come back and to get another job. 407 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: And I think that one of the big problems is 408 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: a lot of athletic directors and people in general look 409 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: and say, well, we tried a woman, it didn't work, 410 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: so now we're going back to hiring a guy. As 411 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: if that one woman represented our entire gender, and they 412 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: couldn't say it just didn't work out with that particular woman, 413 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: which is what they say when a guy fails. It's 414 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: interesting because I know the NFL had the Rooney Rule 415 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: and when it came to looking at coaches for every 416 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: white man they had to look at a person of 417 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: color for coaching or management jobs. But I don't know 418 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: how well that's worked, do you It's not it's not working. 419 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: I just read an article recently too, what what happened? 420 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: What's wrong? I think approach. I think they're interviewing, but 421 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: they're not hiring, and I think that they're kind of 422 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: moving the the idea of this is what you need 423 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: to do this. You have to be an offensive coordinator, 424 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: you have to call the plays, you have to do 425 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: this with that, and so then then uh men are 426 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: promoted to that job and then they say, now you 427 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: know what, Now we're gonna say this is what you need. 428 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: So they're constantly kind of moving the line um and 429 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: it's unfortunate. And it happens in college sports as well. 430 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: I think the diversity at the college level in women's 431 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: basketball is not nearly what it should be. When you 432 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: look at the tremendous amount of great athletes that we 433 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: have in our programs. I don't think the coaching staffs 434 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: represent those players. There is truly so much to Muffett, 435 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: and having known her for thirty three years as a 436 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: member of her first class notre name, I'm just one 437 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,959 Speaker 1: of the hundreds of people she's touched and impacted profoundly. 438 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: Karen Keys has had an impressive career in sports, a 439 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: year of professional play, coaching at the D one level, 440 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: broadcast reporter, and now the coach of her former high 441 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: school back basketball team in New Jersey. I would describe 442 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: her as authentic, genuine, candid, straightforward, even blunt. But some 443 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: of that directness is the reason why she's such an 444 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: effective communicator as a coach. Whenever a Muffett told you 445 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 1: something that you might not want to hear, deep in 446 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: your heart, you knew it was what you needed the year, 447 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: and it might not all be comfortable and nice, but 448 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: in the long run, she always had your best interest 449 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: in mind as a player and person. When we come back, 450 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: I'll talk with a game changing athletic director who has 451 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: more than a few ideas about how to level the 452 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: playing field. It's often said if you can't see it, 453 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: you can't be it, and for a lot of young 454 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: female athletes, they're still not seeing themselves at the top. 455 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: Carla Williams is helping to break that mold. As I mentioned, 456 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: she's the athletic director at u v A, my alma mater, 457 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: wa Hua. Carlos says that plane sports gave her the 458 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: tools to get this far. I do believe that sports 459 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: is a great equalizer. I do believe that sports brings 460 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 1: people together, whether it's teammates or fans, um cheering for 461 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 1: their team, coming from all different walks of life and 462 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: being able to participate in sports has opened so many 463 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: doors for so many young people that may not have 464 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: had the opportunity to go to college. I'm one of them, 465 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,719 Speaker 1: and so sports participation needs to be something that is 466 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: available to any kid that wants to play. And I 467 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: just think that's very basically fundamental because that opens the 468 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: door to all of those other benefits, so teamwork, hard work, 469 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: time management, um, learning how to play with others, perseverance. 470 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: Carlo has been a involved in every aspect of Division 471 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: one sports. She played, she coached, and then she became 472 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 1: an administrator, which is where she believes she can have 473 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: the most impact. In fact, today she's one of only 474 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: four female athletic directors at Power five institutions. There were 475 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: five of us when I became a D at Virginia, 476 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: and now there are four, and and so I don't 477 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: it's hard to to really have a good sense of 478 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: how that's going to change in a year, two years, 479 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: three years, or five ten years. It's just really hard 480 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: to gauge it. Of course, with great power comes great 481 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: responsibility and the pressure not to fail. Carla does what 482 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: she can for others, but also argues that the burden 483 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: to change the system should not rest solely on women 484 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: and people of color. I take seriously the opportunity to 485 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 1: mentor I do try to have fall conversations, emails and 486 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: meet with people who want to learn more and grow 487 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 1: in the profession. But at the same time I have 488 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: to do my job because I do realize that a 489 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: lot of people are, you know, excited and happy that 490 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: this opportunity uh existed for me, and so I do 491 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: understand what it means to a lot of people that 492 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: that aspire to this. I also understand that it could 493 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: be a burden also because my failure means a lot 494 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: as well, and so I can't fail, um, you know. 495 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 1: And so that puts uh, that's a that is a 496 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: difficult challenge. UM. And also I don't you know, creating 497 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 1: a diverse workforce is not always the responsibility of the 498 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: for the people of color, you know. And so I 499 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: try to do my best. But if I allow myself 500 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: to be the person responsible for making sure that African 501 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: American women can become athletic directors, then I won't be 502 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: an athletic director for very long. And so I really 503 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 1: think it should be a shared responsibility for me. I 504 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 1: had some great UM role models who were athletic directors, 505 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: and they were willing to include me in meetings, UM, 506 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: in decision making conversations that were you know, critical decision 507 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: making conversations, key decision making conversations. That is one way 508 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: to really help women gain more experience and be in 509 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: the room so that we can be a part of 510 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: that discussion. I think athletic directors who are willing to 511 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: be inclusive in a substantive way, UM. And that's really 512 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: the only way to do it, because it just cannot 513 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: be a superficial, check the box kind of position. It 514 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: really needs to be you know, engaged in real discussions, 515 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 1: and then of course presidents and chancellers that aren't afraid 516 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:20,360 Speaker 1: to only look at the qualifications when hiring for athletic 517 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: director positions. I think sometimes you know it's it's you're comfortable, 518 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, hiring people that you're comfortable with, and so 519 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: that oftentimes excludes women for sure from those opportunities. Carlos is, 520 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: diversity is key at all levels of college athletics. It's 521 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: better for players, it's better for universities, and it's better 522 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: for the game. Having a diverse set of opinions and 523 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: experiences and thoughts to help make the right decision is 524 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: really really important. And it's it's almost like you can't 525 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: you shouldn't have a star warting five that are all centers, 526 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: because you know that may not work. You don't have 527 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: your ball handler, you don't have your perimeter shooter, you know. 528 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: So their strength in um having a balanced team in sports. 529 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: So that's a given in sports, and so to me, 530 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: I see it the same in administration. Their strength to 531 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: having balance and to having diversity because you allow yourself 532 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: to hear different opinions and different experiences to make sure 533 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: that we're considering that we're we're making an informed decision, 534 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: and if everyone thinks like me, then I'm not so 535 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: sure that we're making a completely informed decision. And so 536 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: that's why I do That's why I think their strength 537 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: and diversity. Matham McGraw agrees that diversity is something everyone 538 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: needs to be working towards. I think every coach in 539 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: the country as to look and say, how can I 540 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: support women? How can I hire more women? There's so 541 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: many talented women out there in the w n b 542 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: A when they want to get out and start coaching, 543 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: where is their opportunity. It's very difficult for them to 544 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: break in and that's where we need to have more 545 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: positions and the n c A is looking at that 546 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: right now that we can have sort of a fellowship 547 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: of being able to take a w NBA player on 548 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: our staff, train them see if the coaching is something 549 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: that they would want to do or be good at. 550 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: And I think that's a good way to start. And 551 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: how can you or how do you foster leadership skills 552 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: and coaches that are coming up through the ranks as 553 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: they're kind of a mentor program to get even more 554 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: women in the pipeline. And we have we have some 555 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: programs in our Coaches Association, but I think it's up 556 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: to really the head coach looking at her players that 557 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: we have to be mentors for them and what they 558 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,479 Speaker 1: see at practice. And I have to be a mentor 559 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: for my staff. I want them to be head coaches. 560 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: I've recently had an assistant coach go over to the 561 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: NBA and she's with them Memphis Grizzlies. Now, ne l 562 00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: i v Um going to be one of the great 563 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: coaches coming into UH into college if she chooses to 564 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: come back here, and so I think we need more 565 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: of that. I think the NBA is right ahead of 566 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: the curve. They're hiring a lot of women. I think 567 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: there's maybe ten or eleven women in the NBA right 568 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: now that are getting great experience. Becky Hammond had to 569 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: take over a game, the first woman to coach an 570 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: NBA team because Papovich either got tossed or or was 571 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: not available for the game. So I think we're making strategy. 572 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: Saw in the Super Bowl female assistant on San Francisco. 573 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: I think it's it's coming. It's just so slow, but 574 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: but we are seeing some change, and I guess we 575 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: have to celebrate that and do whatever we can to 576 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: to feel more change in the future. I'd just like 577 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: to see more women stepping up and using their voice 578 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: and looking to hire and empower women. Prepared me to 579 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: be a leader by challenging me. She was a great leader, 580 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: but she led by example. She was so passionate, so 581 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: hard working. I really looked up to her her advice. 582 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: She's always taught her student athletes how to be strong 583 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: women and how to use our voice. That's Neil Ivy, 584 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: an assistant coach at the Memphis Grizzlies, one of only 585 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: nine female coaches in the m b A. I love you, 586 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: um from the bottom of my heart, and I appreciate 587 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: you helping me become the woman that I am. I 588 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: think that, um, I've learned the right way to live. UM. 589 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: I think I've learned the right way to coach and 590 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: the right way to um to just be a human being. 591 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: Before we go. For anyone out there wanting to step 592 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: up to become a Muffett McGraw or a Carla Williams, 593 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: here's some advice from a pro. Always do more than 594 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: what's expected of you. Do more, do extra, UM, And 595 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: that has helped me, you know, as a student athlete, 596 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: whether it's in the gym getting up more shots, are 597 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: in the weight room a little bit longer, or as 598 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: a coach, staying at the gym to recruit and see 599 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: more players when your colleagues have already left. Um, it's 600 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: just do is doing extra just doing more, going the 601 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: extra mile to learn more and to do more. Um, 602 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: you know is something I always give. And then at work, 603 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: just work, work, work, work. You don't work twenty four 604 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: hours a day, but when you are working, make sure 605 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: that you are working really hard. Um and smart. That's 606 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: it for this week's episode, I'd like to give us 607 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: special thanks to Muffett's former Notre Dame players Beth Cunningham, 608 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: Sarah Leivescher, Melissa lect Lightner, Karen Keyes and Nelle I 609 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: v and go Irish even though I went to u 610 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: v A. By the way, you can subscribe to Next 611 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: Question and listen to all of our episodes on Apple Podcasts, 612 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,479 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, or wherever you get your 613 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: favorite shows, and you can keep up with me on Facebook, Twitter, 614 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: Instagram and all the rest. Meanwhile, if you're looking for 615 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: a little guidance on what's happening in the world, and 616 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to feel totally overwhelmed. Sign up for 617 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: my daily newsletter. It's called Wake Up Paul and you 618 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: can get it by going to Katie Curik dot com. 619 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: Until next time and my Next Question, I'm Katie Kurik. 620 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. Next Question with Katie Couric 621 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Currik Media. 622 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: The executive producers are Katie Couric, Courtney Litz, and Tyler Klang. 623 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Our show producer is 624 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: Bethan Macaluso. The associate producers are Emily Pinto and Derek Clemens. 625 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: Editing by Derrek Clements, Dylan Fagin and Lowell Berlante, Mixing 626 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: by Dylan Fagan. Our researcher is Gabriel Loser. For more 627 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: information on today's episode, go to Katie Couric dot com 628 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: and follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Katie Kurik. 629 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,439 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 630 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.