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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this

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Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. So this

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Speaker 1: past weekend, my producer Mike and I headed out to

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Speaker 1: the iHeart Music Festival in Las Vegas, where we recorded

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Speaker 1: a live episode of There No Girls on the Internet

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Speaker 1: from the House of Music booths. Ironically, our conversation was

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Speaker 1: all about why so many people are surveilling the behavior

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Speaker 1: of strangers on social media platforms like TikTok, And we

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Speaker 1: had that conversation from a recording booth right on the

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Speaker 1: strip where passers by could stop and check out our recording.

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Speaker 1: So we were talking about social surveillance while being very

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Speaker 1: much surveilled ourselves. So you might hear a little bit

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Speaker 1: of music and festival noise in the background of this episode.

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Speaker 1: Taping like this was a real first for me, but

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Speaker 1: it was super fun and I hope you enjoy it. Hey, there,

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Speaker 1: we're recording live from the iHeart podcast studio powered by

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Speaker 1: Bose at the House of Music at the iHeart Music Festival. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so a real quick fact about me is that I

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Speaker 1: am a very nosy person by nature. And if somebody

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Speaker 1: has gossip about a stranger, you can rest assured that

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Speaker 1: I am interested in it. I want to know details,

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Speaker 1: who said what, and then what did she say? Who

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Speaker 1: did what? Why did she say that, and then what happened?

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Speaker 1: I want follow up. I want details. I'm very invested,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think I'm alone. I actually kind of

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Speaker 1: think this is just human nature. You know, people want

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Speaker 1: to know what's going on in the world around them.

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Speaker 1: But what happens when it goes too far and we

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Speaker 1: start projecting entire worlds and motivations on the people we've

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Speaker 1: never even met. Here's a great example of what I mean.

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Speaker 1: A few weeks ago, this TikTok of a woman relaying

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Speaker 1: a conversation that she overheard at a cafe blew up.

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Speaker 1: The woman said that she overheard a nearby table of

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Speaker 1: women essentially talking major crap about a bride who is

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Speaker 1: their friend, and they'd all been brides in her wedding.

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Speaker 1: The women thought the bride didn't look good. The women

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Speaker 1: thought the bride was rude by not letting them pick

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Speaker 1: their own hairstyles. The women thought that using rose instead

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Speaker 1: of champagne for her toast was like tacki and cheap,

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Speaker 1: and worst of all, these women said that they were

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Speaker 1: not genuinely happy for this bride. All of their smiling,

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Speaker 1: bright faces in the pictures and in the video they

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Speaker 1: were faking all of that because in reality they thought

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Speaker 1: that this bride looked terrible and that her wedding was tacky,

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Speaker 1: cheap and awful. Like apparently it just went on and

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Speaker 1: on and on. So the woman who made this TikTok

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Speaker 1: said that she just overheard this conversation and that she

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Speaker 1: was relaying it to the entire internet because she wanted

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Speaker 1: this woman to know that this is how her friends

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Speaker 1: and her bridesmaids felt about her, and that perhaps they

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Speaker 1: are not her real friends. And I think that might

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Speaker 1: partly be true. This woman might have genuinely wanted to

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Speaker 1: find the bride to let her know what her friends

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Speaker 1: really thought about her wedding. But this TikTok racked up

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Speaker 1: over thirty thousand likes and was stitched into edit a

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Speaker 1: bunch with people in the comments being like, Oh, we

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Speaker 1: gotta find this bride. Where's this bride?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: I want to follow up what happened, find the bride,

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Speaker 1: but and I am fully aware that this might be

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Speaker 1: a bit of an unpopular opinion. I think if we're

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Speaker 1: being honest, obviously it's not nice, and I don't love

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Speaker 1: the idea of friends talking crap about one another. But

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Speaker 1: if we're being honest, I actually think that complaining about

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Speaker 1: people that you love, sometimes behind their backs, is sometimes

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Speaker 1: just part of being in relationships with other people. You know,

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Speaker 1: I am not too proud or too big to admit

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Speaker 1: that I have done it a time or two, hopefully

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Speaker 1: not with an earshot of somebody who was gonna live

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Speaker 1: tweet the whole thing. But I think it's just part

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Speaker 1: of being friends with people sometimes, is that you have

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Speaker 1: conflict and that you know, you meet over drinks to

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Speaker 1: complain about a friend and this event and get it out.

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Speaker 1: So I can almost hear people listening saying, oh, that

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Speaker 1: is not true. You should never talk badly about a

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Speaker 1: friend or a loved one, And in that I say,

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Speaker 1: be so for real right now, Like, come on, I

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Speaker 1: think that most everybody, all of us, at one time

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Speaker 1: or another, has invented about a friend or a family

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Speaker 1: member or a spouse or somebody that we love. And

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think that a stranger transcribing everything that

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Speaker 1: you might say during event session over drinks and then

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Speaker 1: blasting it to the entire Internet in the hopes that

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Speaker 1: it might get back to the subject, is really that helpful? Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that this TikToker really did a good

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Speaker 1: thing for this bride. I actually think like if I

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Speaker 1: had seen that, I would be mortified. I would be

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Speaker 1: horrified that my friends were talking about this. I would

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Speaker 1: be horrified that the details of my wedding were blasted

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Speaker 1: to the internet, and the way that my friends felt

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Speaker 1: about them were blasted to the Internet. I'd be horrified.

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Speaker 1: And so I don't necessarily think it's like that helpful.

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Speaker 1: I also think it's possible that this stranger, maybe it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have the co text of their particular relationship to

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Speaker 1: know like the context of what's being said right There

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Speaker 1: might be history there that she doesn't know. There might

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Speaker 1: be more to the story. I think just eavesdropping for

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Speaker 1: ten minutes into someone's vent session over drinks where they

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Speaker 1: don't know that someone else is listening, might not tell

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Speaker 1: the entire full magnitude of what's going on. And certainly

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Speaker 1: I don't think maybe gives you enough information to comfortably

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Speaker 1: and reasonably blast this to the entire Internet. And here's

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Speaker 1: another maybe unpopular opinion about all this. This TikToker maybe

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Speaker 1: did just genuinely want to give this bride a heads

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Speaker 1: up that her friends felt this way about her wedding

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Speaker 1: and maybe weren't her real friends. That might be true,

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Speaker 1: But I also think that this TikToker probably maybe might

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Speaker 1: have realized that she had a juicy story on her hands,

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Speaker 1: one that people would naturally want to chime in on

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Speaker 1: and she and that it would spread this video far

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Speaker 1: and wide. Like I think that she knew people we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have opinions about this, or we're gonna be leaving comments,

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Speaker 1: and that this video would blow up like it did.

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Speaker 1: And here's my point. This phenomenon that I'm seeing more

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Speaker 1: and more of on social media where people take content

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Speaker 1: about the behavior of strangers and people get very very

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Speaker 1: invested in like finding them or getting a follow up,

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Speaker 1: or getting a part two, or knowing what happened next,

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Speaker 1: as if they are following celebrity gossip or watching a movie.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing, these people are not celebrities. They're

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Speaker 1: just regular people, strangers. Even in a really interesting piece

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Speaker 1: for the Conversation, doctor Jenna Drenten, Associate Professor of Marketing

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Speaker 1: at the Quinlan School of Business at Loyal University Chicago,

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Speaker 1: who study social media behavior, dubs this the TikTok tabloid.

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Speaker 1: She writes together these stories represent the emergence of what

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Speaker 1: she calls TikTok tabloids, in which users collectively manufacture and

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Speaker 1: dramatize stories like an investigative gossip reel. Traditional tabloids place

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Speaker 1: the lurid limelight on select berties and public figures, but

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Speaker 1: the TikTok tabloid targets everyday people. So, according to doctor Drenten,

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Speaker 1: this phenomenon is really This phenomenon is related closely to

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Speaker 1: the dynamics of social surveillance, which is using digital technologies

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Speaker 1: to keep a close watch on one another while producing

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Speaker 1: online content in anticipation of being watched. So this sounds

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Speaker 1: very like draconian, like tech dystopian, but it's kind of

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Speaker 1: nothing new. Obviously, tabloids have been around for kind of

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Speaker 1: a long time. If you lived through the two thousands,

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Speaker 1: which was the Golden Age or depending on who you ask,

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Speaker 1: dark age of the online tabloid, you probably remember how

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Speaker 1: tabloids like TMZ and Perez Hilton would publish the minutia

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Speaker 1: of celebrities like Britney Spears and Paris Hilton. It was ugly,

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Speaker 1: it was racist often, it was misogynistic. It was all

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Speaker 1: kinds of like negative things. It just was not a

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Speaker 1: good time in media. But I do think that back

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Speaker 1: in the twenty's and the twenty tens, there was this

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I think this feeling that because these

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Speaker 1: were celebrities, because these were famous people and public figures,

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Speaker 1: that they weren't real people like you or me as

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Speaker 1: a real person, so it was fair game to photograph

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Speaker 1: them and obsess and surveil them online whenever they went

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Speaker 1: in public. But doctor Drenten says, where tabloid culture used

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Speaker 1: to be about the many watching the few, where a

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Speaker 1: few people who are celebrities are surveilled by all of

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Speaker 1: us and we get to pick apart their behavior. Today

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Speaker 1: there's been a shift where that same dynamic has translated

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Speaker 1: to everyone watching everyone all the time. We're both they're

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Speaker 1: surveillers and they're surveilled.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of chilling, Yeah, I mean, it's.

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Speaker 1: Actual, especially funny in that we're in the iHeart podcast

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Speaker 1: studio here at iHeart the iHeart Radio festival, So like

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Speaker 1: we are post casting in a little bit of a fishball,

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Speaker 1: I feel, I mean, are we are certainly the surveils

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Speaker 1: right now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, people keep stopping by, and I can't tell if

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Speaker 4: they're looking into like watch us recording this episode or

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Speaker 4: just marvel at the bow's headphones.

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Speaker 1: They are quite nice, you know that.

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Speaker 4: Like bridal party debriefing from the wedding, I think you

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Speaker 4: absolutely nailed it about why the person would have blasted

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Speaker 4: that on TikTok and like spread.

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Speaker 3: It far and wide.

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Speaker 4: It's all about her, the person who posted that, like

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Speaker 4: trying to get some like trying to get some engagement,

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Speaker 4: trying to be like part of this story. Clearly it's

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Speaker 4: not about the bride, Like she doesn't know anything about

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Speaker 4: the backstory of these women in the relationships.

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Speaker 3: And the thing that she doesn't like.

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Speaker 4: They you know, all the bridesmaids were not saying is

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Speaker 4: how much they loved this person, which clearly they do

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Speaker 4: because they went to her tax boring wedding and pretended

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Speaker 4: to have a good time for probably like eight hours.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, let's not further crap on this woman's wedding.

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Speaker 1: But yes, here's my thing. Sometimes being in a friendship

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Speaker 1: or having a loved one or being in a relationship

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Speaker 1: means doing stuff that you don't want to do or

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Speaker 1: don't enjoy, or don't like or don't agree with because

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Speaker 1: this person is your friend and you love them, and

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Speaker 1: so you're not gonna go to brunch after. And also,

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Speaker 1: let's be a real wedding. When you're in someone's wedding,

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Speaker 1: oftentimes it is like event after event after event, like

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Speaker 1: it's like a week long celebration of this person and

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Speaker 1: their love. And listen, I have been part of weddings

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Speaker 1: that I was not thrilled to be part of. I

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Speaker 1: have gotten up early to go play corn hole people

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Speaker 1: that I didn't like and had never met before. I

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Speaker 1: have soldiered through while hungover and done activity after activity

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Speaker 1: after acidine activity. I don't want to get to If

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Speaker 1: I go down this rabbit hole, I will. It'll listen,

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Speaker 1: this whole episode will be me complaining about one particularly

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Speaker 1: involved wedding that I went to. But here's my thing

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Speaker 1: is that you do it, you do it out of love.

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Speaker 1: And so when you go to the big brunch after

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Speaker 1: the all the wedding stuff this is over, You're not

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Speaker 1: gonna be sitting there talking about how much we love

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Speaker 1: the bride. No, that is implied because you just did

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Speaker 1: all this stuff that you didn't want to do out

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Speaker 1: out of the obligation of love. Like sometimes that's what

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Speaker 1: relationships are like.

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Speaker 4: And that feels like a really good example to talk

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Speaker 4: about this sort of broader phenomenon that you were talking about,

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Speaker 4: like the many on many surveillance that that is happening

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Speaker 4: with social media, with TikTok and everything that you know,

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Speaker 4: there's so much that gets lost there and like what

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Speaker 4: is what are the motivations of the surveillers exactly?

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, I think that the woman who brought

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Speaker 1: this to TikTok, it's possible that maybe she just like

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Speaker 1: wanted this bride to know what was what was going on.

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Speaker 1: But I also just think that like in like realistically,

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Speaker 1: she also knew she had a juicy story on her

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Speaker 1: head and she wanted to blow it up. She wasn't like,

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Speaker 1: probably wasn't unhappy that this video got almost half a

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Speaker 1: million people to like it. And I think that when

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Speaker 1: we're bringing the stories of other people, strangers, people we

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Speaker 1: have no connection to, onto the Internet to be surveilled

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Speaker 1: in this way, whatever context or nuance or history might

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Speaker 1: be present in our relationships. Because relationships are complicated, relationships

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Speaker 1: do have nuance, all of that gets lost and instead

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Speaker 1: is replaced by the projections of people who don't even

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Speaker 1: know these people. So today's culture of social today's culture

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Speaker 1: of social surveillance, means that we're all always being watched

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Speaker 1: and also watching not just celebrities, we're all tabloid fodder

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Speaker 1: now baby. As media scholar Alice E. Merrick puts it,

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Speaker 1: social surveillance is the ongoing eavesdropping, investigation, gossip, and inquiry

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Speaker 1: that constitutes information gathering by people about their peers, made

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Speaker 1: salient by the social digitization normalized by social media. Back

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Speaker 1: to doctor Dunton, because she puts it really well. She writes,

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Speaker 1: in social surveillance, everyone online is both a guard and

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Speaker 1: a prisoner, constantly consuming online content and producing content for

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Speaker 1: others to see. This always on dynamic works to control behavior.

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Speaker 1: Everyday people have the power to orchestrate what other users see, read,

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Speaker 1: and believe, not only about traditional celebrities but also about

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Speaker 1: regular everyday people. So this is not always like a

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Speaker 1: nefarious or negative thing, like you know, I think I

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Speaker 1: happen to think that, like what this woman did vi

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Speaker 1: a TikTok, Like like if the bride did see that TikTok,

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Speaker 1: she would be devastated. But it's not always like a

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Speaker 1: nefarious or negative thing, where like someone if they see

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Speaker 1: what someone has said about them, is going to be devastated.

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Speaker 1: Barstool Sports, which is this huge social media platform on TikTok,

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Speaker 1: I know, we don't really care for them over here

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Speaker 1: in these parts.

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Speaker 3: They're not great actors.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're definitely not great actors. It's a good way

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Speaker 1: to put it. Well, barstool Sports, they're huge on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: They reposted a video that somebody took of an older

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Speaker 1: woman leaving a movie theater. She's got a cane and

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Speaker 1: she's walking pretty slow after seeing the movie Barbie by herself.

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Speaker 1: The caption says wholesome moment, and it does. It's interesting

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Speaker 1: because like when I saw that video, it is like sweet.

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Speaker 1: Like I definitely was like, oh this like old woman

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Speaker 1: went to see Barbie, which was like the feminist like

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Speaker 1: age unity movie for women of the summer, and like

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Speaker 1: I understand what they are going for and what they

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Speaker 1: are trying to say. However, it seems like a way

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Speaker 1: to really project a story onto a stranger who was

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Speaker 1: just living her life. Like being out and about and

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Speaker 1: going to see a movie is just automatically cute or

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Speaker 1: sad or wholesome just because an older woman and is

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Speaker 1: doing it? Right, Like, did the person who took that

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Speaker 1: video and uploaded it to the internet and then gave

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Speaker 1: Barstool Sports permission to use it? Did they check in

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Speaker 1: with her to get her consent? Did they? Is that

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Speaker 1: how she would have described that, outing that it was

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Speaker 1: like sad or wholesome or something to be like pitied

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Speaker 1: or projecting all these emotions onto.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and like who knows what's true? Right, Like, we

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Speaker 4: don't know this old woman. She could be a raging bitch.

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Speaker 1: She could be she could be.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break at her back.

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Speaker 1: Something that you know about me is that I absolutely

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Speaker 1: love to go to the movies by myself. It is

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Speaker 1: my Nothing makes me happier than going to see a matinee,

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Speaker 1: double feeture, sneaking snacks into the movies and then just

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Speaker 1: like going by myself so I don't have to I

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Speaker 1: don't have to worry. It's like, oh, do the person

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Speaker 1: I brought like it or not? Are they enjoying it?

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Speaker 1: Do they have to pee? Like, are they gonna be annoying?

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Speaker 1: Are they gonna talk? They gonna be on their phone?

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Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. I find nothing more like pure than

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Speaker 1: the joy of going to a movie alone. So I'm

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Speaker 1: a woman. I am aging because that's the thing that

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Speaker 1: humans do. How many more years do I have to

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Speaker 1: go see movies by myself until someone's gonna get a

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Speaker 1: video of me doing it? And then now it's like,

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Speaker 1: look at this sad old woman trying to go to the.

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Speaker 3: Movies by herself hashtag inspiration.

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Speaker 1: I know, like maybe I'm just trying to go to

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Speaker 1: a movie. Maybe I'm not trying to be someone's like

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Speaker 1: inspiration porn or someone's like a wholesome moment, or someone's

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Speaker 1: like like, wow, look at this old woman just like

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Speaker 1: hasn't laid down and died and still go on to

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Speaker 1: see movies. I'm real triumphs, right, Like, how how many

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Speaker 1: years do I have?

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Speaker 4: And told that is the case, listeners write it, We'd

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Speaker 4: love to hear your opinion.

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Speaker 1: Just yeah, what age will bridget be like? Just being

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Speaker 1: like for I I do feel like for women like

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Speaker 1: at a certain age, just like existing is you know,

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Speaker 1: it's actually, like slight spoiler from the movie Barbie, they

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Speaker 1: kind of play with it in the movie Barbie when

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Speaker 1: Barbie sees that older woman and she's like, you're so beautiful,

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Speaker 1: and the woman's like, yeah, I know you Like it

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Speaker 1: kind of plays with this assumption that we are all.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I think that this kind of content

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Speaker 1: trains us to automatically project something onto people who are

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Speaker 1: just existing, like, oh my god, you're so inspirational for

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Speaker 1: daring to be an older woman out living your life and.

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Speaker 4: Never really being real about like, you know, the many surveilling,

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Speaker 4: the many who gets surveiled.

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Speaker 1: It's out.

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Speaker 3: It's women.

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Speaker 1: It's women.

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Speaker 3: We're not looking at dudes.

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Speaker 1: It is yes, it is absolutely women like that. I

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Speaker 1: completely agree. So a very similar thing to what I

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Speaker 1: was just talking about the older woman going to see

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Speaker 1: Barbie by herself happened with an Australian influencer who does

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Speaker 1: these stunts where he kind of like does things in

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Speaker 1: public with strangers that are meant to be kind or wholesome.

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Speaker 1: Only in this case, we actually know what the subject,

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Speaker 1: who was also an older woman, felt about it because

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Speaker 1: she told us.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 1: This influencer goes up to this older woman who is

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Speaker 1: eating alone in a food court and a hands her

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Speaker 1: a bouquet of flowers, and it's clearly meant to be

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Speaker 1: like a wholesome or heartwarming moment, like a young guy

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Speaker 1: brightening the day of this lonely old woman eating by

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Speaker 1: herself a random act of kindness, and all the comments

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Speaker 1: are like, oh my god, like that is so sweet,

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Speaker 1: Like she really deserves those flowers. He's really doing a

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Speaker 1: nice thing for this. He probably made that old woman's day,

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Speaker 1: and she really probably like needed needed those flowers, needed

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Speaker 1: that smile, needed this pickup. You know who didn't feel

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Speaker 1: that way. The woman who was got the flowers, so

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Speaker 1: she actually didn't like it at all. The woman told

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Speaker 1: ABC Radio Melbourne that she had no idea that she

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Speaker 1: was being filmed until she received messages from people telling

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Speaker 1: her the video had gone megaviral. She basically said that

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Speaker 1: she was like eating at this cafe, minding her own business,

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Speaker 1: when this influencer comes up to her and asks, can

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Speaker 1: you hold these flowers for a minute, So she didn't

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Speaker 1: even necessarily realize that like he was giving her flowers

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Speaker 1: because he was like, can you hold these for a minute,

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Speaker 1: And she was like, oh uh, sure, I guess, thinking

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Speaker 1: that like he needed somebody to hold these flowers. Then

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Speaker 1: she sees this camera crew filming her, and she did

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Speaker 1: She didn't know she was being filmed at first, and

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Speaker 1: then she asked them, are you filming this guy giving

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Speaker 1: me flowers? And they said no. They said no, they

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Speaker 1: said no.

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Speaker 3: They lied to her.

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Speaker 1: They lied to this woman.

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Speaker 3: Deception is like, that's the red line for like most things.

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Speaker 1: Oh completely agree. So in this interview, this woman says, quote,

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Speaker 1: I actually even said to them, look, do you want

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Speaker 1: these flowers back? Because I really don't want them. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to carry them home on the tram really,

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Speaker 1: to be quite frank. Also side note, I love this woman.

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Speaker 4: This like old Australian woman who is not interested in

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Speaker 4: these flowers.

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Speaker 1: Having been to Australia and this is like classic Australian lady.

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Speaker 1: Like women in Australia. And I say this with like

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Speaker 1: deep love and admiration. They have a bluntness that I

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Speaker 1: think is really amazing and they really just like say

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Speaker 1: how they feel. And I really dig it, like if

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Speaker 1: you're if you were Australian, if I'm getting this like

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Speaker 1: way off the mark right in and let me know

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Speaker 1: but I've I've met a lot of Australians who are

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Speaker 1: just like, very direct and to the point, and this

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Speaker 1: sounds like one of them. And I love that for her.

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Speaker 1: I love that for her, of that for me, I

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Speaker 1: love that for all of us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, she didn't go out to get lunch at

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Speaker 4: the food court by herself so that some guy could

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Speaker 4: give her flowers. She wasn't like, you know, hoping like

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Speaker 4: today will be the day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so she actually said that this was a

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Speaker 1: little bit of an inconvenience for her because she thought

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Speaker 1: that this guy was kind of intruding on her quiet,

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Speaker 1: private time. She said, these artificial things are not random

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Speaker 1: acts of kindness. So she said that she was kind

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Speaker 1: of offended that they were projecting this story under her,

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Speaker 1: that she was like this sad, broken down, lonely old

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Speaker 1: woman just because she was having a cup of coffee

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Speaker 1: by herself, right, Like, I do think it's it's wild

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Speaker 1: to me that just existing in public by yourself means

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Speaker 1: that these strangers and someone filming that means that strangers

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Speaker 1: can come up and project all kinds of stuff. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: that is not super flattering. She was like, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a lonely, sad, old woman. I'm just getting a cup

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Speaker 1: of coffee.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like pretty reductionist of a person.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's reductionist is a good way to put it,

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Speaker 1: you know. I just I just don't think it's cool

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Speaker 1: to package content like this, to have folks project all

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Speaker 1: of this onto other people that they don't even know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and connecting it back to that guy who filmed

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Speaker 4: this video, clearly his motivation was not to like uplift

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Speaker 4: and reaffirm this woman, right like, that might have been

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Speaker 4: his facade motivation, but it had nothing to do with her.

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Speaker 3: It was all about him. He was using her as

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Speaker 3: a prop.

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Speaker 1: Okay, first of all, if you want to reaffirm a

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Speaker 1: woman in public, leave her the fuck alone, don't come like,

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Speaker 1: give her a fly, don't do any of this. But

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Speaker 1: the influencer, in his defense, he did apologize and he

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Speaker 1: said that I want if she wants him to take

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Speaker 1: this video down, he will. He didn't want to vend her,

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Speaker 1: but he did double down on his random acts of

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Speaker 1: kindness content. And to your point, Mike, it is a

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Speaker 1: little bit complicated because we know that TikTok is a

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Speaker 1: platform that does reward positive content and So it would

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Speaker 1: be nice to think that this influencer was just doing

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Speaker 1: this to be altruistic or sweet, or he genuinely wanted

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Speaker 1: to like affirm this woman and like make her day.

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Speaker 1: But the reality is is that he is an influencer

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Speaker 1: who makes money from his social media platform. And if

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Speaker 1: you want to build up your platform, making heartwarming, random

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Speaker 1: acts of kindness content is a way to do it.

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Speaker 1: It is a way to boost your individual profile. And

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Speaker 1: especially if you're doing it without consent, that really tells

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Speaker 1: me that you're not really genuinely interested in like reaffirming

434
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: or making the day of this random woman. It's about you.

435
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: It is about building your platform and your profile. And

436
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: she in her interview with ABC, she actually says, I

437
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: have a sense that this influencer probably made money from

438
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: this video of me that I actually found deeply offensive.

439
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that says a lot.

440
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 4: You know, he's making money off it, he's getting like,

441
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,719
Speaker 4: he's getting engagement. He probably didn't share that money with her,

442
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 4: and he offered to take the video down, but that's

443
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 4: not really what it's about. Like, I guess now I'm

444
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 4: going to take a turn just projecting onto this woman

445
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 4: based on nothing, But like I have to.

446
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 3: Imagine that the thing that made her uncomfortable was not

447
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 3: like being seen by.

448
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 4: Millions of TikTokers that she doesn't know, but just the

449
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 4: general vibe of the thing that she was made to

450
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 4: participate in without her consent, and that they lied to

451
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 4: her about during the thing.

452
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that that's one of the things

453
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: that I really want to push back against our in

454
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: our sort of rapidly digitizing culture digital culture, is that

455
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: anybody who goes out in public is just consenting to

456
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: be a character in someone else's story about them, just

457
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: by the your act of leaving their house, going out

458
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: their front door. I think that people have a right

459
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: to privacy. I think that people have a right to

460
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: like go have a sad coffee by themselves or something,

461
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: or like go to a movie alone without someone being like,

462
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: oh look at this, Look at this poor soul just

463
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: really hanging on there, really inspirational to all of us, right, Like,

464
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: sometimes people just want to live their lives. They don't

465
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: want to go outside and accidentally become somebody else's inspiration

466
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: porn just by living their life.

467
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 4: You know, this is making me thinking of and this

468
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 4: is a bit of a like sharp left turn.

469
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: Oh left turn no signal.

470
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 3: Left turn, no signal.

471
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 4: But uh, those TikTok accounts that are being NPCs where

472
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 4: they're just kind of like bopping around.

473
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: Ice cream so good, ice cream, so good? Yeah, Like,

474
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about.

475
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 4: I think about the Spider Man guy pretty often because

476
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 4: he's not just like.

477
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: The one where you do you see the one where

478
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: he wrote character.

479
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 3: I did not see that.

480
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I want to talk offline. I don't

481
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: want to talk offline. It's amazing.

482
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 4: But I love his because he's not just like reacting

483
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 4: to the TikTok gifts that he receives, but he's he's saying,

484
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 4: like Spider Man things like ooh, this city is really

485
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 4: seeing some dark times, you know, like I.

486
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: Really miss my aunt. Yeah.

487
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 4: Like maybe that's a reaction to this like constant surveillance

488
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 4: vibe of people, you know, wanting to put themselves out

489
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 4: there and choosing how they how they show up.

490
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: I don't know.

491
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: Well, I do think that everybody deserves the right to

492
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: choose how they show up. I think about this a

493
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: lot because, like, I am someone who leaves my house

494
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: looking pretty bummy a lot of the time, and if

495
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: someone got a video of me when I was like

496
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 1: out and about just trying to get a cup of coffee,

497
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: not looking my best, which is often that would I

498
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: would be horrified if somebody took a picture of me,

499
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: like suggesting something about me that wasn't true, just based

500
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: on a glance of me. Like, I just think that

501
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: it invites us to boil people, people who are complex

502
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: beings into like flatten them into a character based on

503
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: a ten second like observation of them out on the street,

504
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: which I don't think. I think that should be should

505
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: be resisting.

506
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like you said, it's just going out in

507
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 4: public should not mean an invitation to be recorded and

508
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 4: made a character in somebody else's story or account, especially

509
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 4: when there's an account that they are.

510
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 3: Monetizing as an influencer.

511
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 4: It's so easy to project onto people, and it's worth interrogating,

512
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 4: like what are these stories that we.

513
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 3: Project onto them?

514
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 4: Like I remember I saw this thing a little bit

515
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 4: ago online somebody posted a photo of a woman reading

516
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 4: a book at a bar. She was sitting at the

517
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 4: bar reading her book, and the caption was something with

518
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 4: the effect of like, ooh, look at this pick me

519
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 4: like trying to act all smart and like sit at

520
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 4: the bar and read her book. And the person who

521
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 4: was in the photo responded and she was like, first

522
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 4: of all, that photo was from like several years ago,

523
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: So whoever took this, you know, without my consent, they've

524
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 4: just been sitting on this photo for years chosen to

525
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 4: circulate it now. And I was waiting for my friend

526
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 4: who was the bartender to get off her shift, like

527
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 4: I would go there a lot, I would hang out,

528
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 4: And so it just says so much that somebody like

529
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 4: chose to post that photo and chose to be like,

530
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 4: oh look at this, pick me this, you know, vapid

531
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 4: pathetic woman.

532
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: Also, it's wild to me in that story that people

533
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: assume automatically that this woman is pretending to read or

534
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 1: is like performatively reading because she wants to look a

535
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: certain way in public, projecting that. I feel like that

536
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: can only come from someone who has done that. It

537
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: is like deeply insecure about it. Some people are just

538
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: genuinely enjoying reading, Like, yeah, you don't have to project

539
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,719
Speaker 1: all kinds of weird stuff. And her just going to

540
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: a bar and bringing a book does not like she's

541
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: not consenting to being a character in this fan fiction

542
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: that you've written about her, about how she's a pick

543
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 1: me trying to look deep at the bar, when in

544
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: reality she's like, I was just waiting for my friend.

545
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: I can't read a book.

546
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: Damn. Yeah.

547
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 3: People love projecting stuff onto others.

548
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: Okay, so speaking of projection, we have we cannot have

549
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: this conversation without talking about the pinnacle of internet projection

550
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: and projecting things onto strangers. You might not you're not

551
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: very online, Mike, so you might not have seen this.

552
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: This is a story that I followed like relentlessly. You

553
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: might not have seen it. Do the words West Elm

554
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: Caleb mean anything to you?

555
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 3: Oh?

556
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: They do? Yeah, tell me what you know. No, you

557
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: don't know this story. Now you're on the spot and

558
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: you don't actually know. Tell me what you know.

559
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 4: Okay, well let me give it a shut. Now that

560
00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 4: I'm feeling surveilled.

561
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: You're double surveiled. You're surveiled in the fish bowl of

562
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: this recording studio, and you're surveiled because I'm putting you

563
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: on blust.

564
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 3: Okay.

565
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 4: So West Elm Caleb was a guy who lived in

566
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 4: New York. He would like go out on dates, and

567
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 4: he was not a good date. He was like disrespectful

568
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 4: to the women that he was dating. I feel like

569
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 4: he was not like abusive or violent or anything, but

570
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 4: just like would like, you know, hook up and then

571
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 4: not call them like that kind of thing.

572
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: Okay. I so I am genuinely surprised, Like I don't

573
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: know who filled you in on West Elm Caleb, or

574
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: if when I'm not around to like bet like bore

575
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: you with internet stories, if you're actually like following TikTok

576
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: and like you know all the drama. You're like, here's

577
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 1: what the girls are up to. You actually know all

578
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: of it in great detail.

579
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 3: I know something, you know somethings.

580
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: Okay, well that was more or less right. So West

581
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: Elm Caleb. He was this guy in New York City.

582
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: He worked as a furniture designer at the furniture store

583
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: West Elm. He Yeah, basically just like you said he

584
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: was on Hinge. He is like a stuck six ' four,

585
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: he has a mustache, furniture designer. He basically his whole

586
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: thing was matching on Hinge. Yeah, just generally like not

587
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: being a good date, telling women like, oh, you're the

588
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: first guy, the first person i've dated from gone on

589
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: a date with from hinge when like in reality, he

590
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: was like Hinge dating at the fuck up. But another

591
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: thing that they said is that he would make up

592
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: he had a Spotify playlist that he would send and

593
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: be like, hey, I made this playlist for you, and

594
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: really he was sending it to all the women. Basically,

595
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: this guy, it sounds like he was like doing a

596
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: number like a Hinge date numbers game where he was like,

597
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: I'm trying to like get as many get with as

598
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: many women as I can. So I'm just going to

599
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: like like go on as many dates as I can.

600
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: And the main thing that I think caused the caused

601
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: this to be like a story that we're talking about now,

602
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: is that he they accused him of like love bombing,

603
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: that he would text them lots of complimentary stuff, be like, oh,

604
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: I like thank you so much, I'm so serious about this,

605
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: I want to be serious with you, blah blah blah,

606
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: and then ghost them, which isn't cool, Like, like, you know,

607
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: is is it a good way to date?

608
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 4: No, it's a it's lying, right, it's saying things that

609
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 4: aren't true to get what you want in a sexual way.

610
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 3: Like that's not cool, that's gross.

611
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: It's not cool. So I want to be clear that

612
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that west Elm Caleb's dating behavior is great.

613
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: And I can tell you one thing. If he ghosted

614
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: a friend of mine, you can bet your ass that

615
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: you would hear me overhear me talking so much craft

616
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: about him at brunch. If he did this to a

617
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: friend of mine, absolutely, But the Internet came for Caleb

618
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: in this completely over the top way. They made him

619
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: the He was like the Internet villain for a week.

620
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: They published his full first and last name, and his

621
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: workplace the dating app Kepler, even may or Keepler. The

622
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: dating app Keepler even made a billboard that reads red

623
00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: flags six ' four mustache furniture designer, in an obvious

624
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: reference to Caleb's dating profile. So I think people got

625
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: very invested in the West Elm Caleb sate saga because

626
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: it was like a live action, in real time movie plot,

627
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: like if you've ever seen that movie John Tucker Must Die.

628
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: It kind of seemed like that movie where you know

629
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: three or four girls from like different walks of life,

630
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: like that athlete girl, the cool girl, this the nerd girl,

631
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: all come together when they realize that they're dating the

632
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: same guy. And John Tucker is playing all of them,

633
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: and they they overcome their differences to like come together

634
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: and you know, get revenge on him. I love that movie.

635
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: I love that plot. I love that as a trope. However,

636
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: and I get how what feeling like you're using the

637
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: internet to watch this play out in real time is

638
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: like very satisfying. But here's the thing. We shouldn't be

639
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: treating real people navigating their real lives characters in a

640
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: movie playing out for us, because that's not what's happening.

641
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: These are strangers, people that we don't know, and projecting

642
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: them and casting them into this like movie plot that

643
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: that we've cooked up with them as the main characters

644
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: isn't really that healthy.

645
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 3: Dad, It's definitely not. You know, people didn't sign up

646
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 3: for that.

647
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 4: And even if it feels good, like an act of

648
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 4: justice in the case of west elm Caleb, if you're

649
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 4: someone who finds his behavior like particularly egregious and feels

650
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 4: that women in Manhattan like needed to be warned, that's

651
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 4: it's still, like you said, like taking ordinary people and

652
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 4: making their lives like characters in a movie and projecting

653
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 4: onto it in a way that is like part of

654
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 4: a pattern that's not serving all of us.

655
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 2: More. After a quick break, let's get right back into it.

656
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: I found this really interesting. All of the different instances

657
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: that we've talked about in this episode have all taken

658
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 1: place on the platform TikTok, not Facebook, not Instagram, TikTok,

659
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: and I think that is not by accident. And a

660
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: piece for Wired, Mark Hill argues that TikTok is actually

661
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 1: the platform that lends itself most to this kind of thing,

662
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 1: because the platform relies on a kind of digital world

663
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: building and digital collaborative play, and that you know, when

664
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: we were all young, we had dolls to act out

665
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: dramas on when we were kids. You know, projecting these

666
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: like made up dramas and motivations onto like dolls is

667
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: what we was how we play it as kids. As

668
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: adult we basically do the same thing, but instead of dolls,

669
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: we have real people via TikTok. In the twenty twenty paper,

670
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: TikTok and the Algorithmized Cell, researchers argue the platform is

671
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: different from other social networking sites because it's less about

672
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: connecting with a network of friends and more a site

673
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: for public performance heavily built on intra personal engagement. While

674
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: creating content for a trending algorithm. While similarly egocentric and

675
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: concern with the performance and management of self identity, TikTok

676
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: rewrites the mechanisms of this process through a design that

677
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: guides users in a different direction than other social media sites.

678
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: They write, essentially, it's a digital sandbox that invites make believe.

679
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: The unplanned back and forth motion between creators makes the

680
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: app an incredible social media playground. TikTok users play and

681
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: perform in simulated characters and settings. This video creation app

682
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 1: is an escape from reality. So this really goes back

683
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: to what you were saying about the non player characters

684
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: and sort of how people are looking for this escape

685
00:36:56,239 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 1: from reality and like performing that TikTok is a specifically

686
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: good place for that kind of performance. And I think

687
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: that's why we see TikTok becoming this platform where it's

688
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: so easy to project entire worlds or attitudes or motivations

689
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: or whatever onto strangers. Hey, oh my god, we are

690
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: the surveilled right.

691
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 2: Now, but we love it.

692
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 4: For those of you listening at home, Bridget is connecting

693
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 4: with the fans outside the booth might be strong.

694
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure she's just heard of this podcast list like

695
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: Passerby might be more accurate, but I'll take it. I'll

696
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 1: take what I can get.

697
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 3: But you know, we signed up for this.

698
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: No, I love it. This is this is I love it.

699
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: I'm loving it. Taking a little pick right now, we're

700
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: cutting all of this out in the real episode. Don't worry. No,

701
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: You've no one I'll ever hear this. It'll just be you.

702
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: Mike the producer on the other end, I'm sure is like,

703
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: please stop people. But yeah, so, I mean it actually

704
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 1: is like it's fitting for the episode about what it

705
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: feels like to be hyper surveilled. I'm actually kind of

706
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: enjoying this. But I signed up for this. I knew.

707
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: I knew coming here I was gonna be like surveilled

708
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: and looked at by people while I was podcasting. I

709
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: knew that was what I was gonna be getting into.

710
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: That'd be totally different if I was just waking up,

711
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: going walking to get a coffee or trying to online

712
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: date and doing it badly and doing it, you know,

713
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: like a little bit of a louse. Uh, That would like,

714
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 1: I don't think that you're necessarily should be signing up

715
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,919
Speaker 1: to have the way that you behave in these situations

716
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: be blasted to the entire internet. I'll tell you another

717
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: example that I saw. I saw this example where a

718
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: woman had matched with somebody on a dating site and

719
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: they sent her this I I thought it was like charming.

720
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: I would have like texted this guy back, but he

721
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: sent her this voice note that basically made him sound

722
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: if I'm being honest, it made him sound like kind

723
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: of my type, like kind of maybe a little bit. Uh.

724
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: He sounded like a human equivalent of a Golden retriever,

725
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 1: kind of like eager and dumb, which is definitely my type.

726
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 3: It's a type.

727
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: And so basically he leaves this like voice note that

728
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: is very nice, but it's like, hey, uh so, uh,

729
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 1: I just want to leave you a voice note. I yeah,

730
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: I just like liked your vibe. But you had a

731
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: cool vibe. I would love to take you out maybe

732
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: being good to macha. Yeah, if you're into that. I

733
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: just got back from an art show. You're like art,

734
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: Let's go see some art and get some maya. All right, peace?

735
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: And basically this guy sounded stupid.

736
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: You would date that?

737
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you have no idea? What my We've

738
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: not really talked about it. You have no idea what

739
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: my dating history is like that I would have called

740
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 1: him back with the quickness. I would have gone to

741
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: see art and gotten macha with him. For sure.

742
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 3: The art would have been so bad.

743
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: It would have been so bad, and his opinions about

744
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: it would have been bad. I'm not saying this guy

745
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: was goddamn or Albert Einstein or anything. I'm just saying

746
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 1: like he sent an earnest, sweet voice note, and her

747
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: and her friends basically they made a TikTok where they

748
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: were kind of re enacting the voice notes. They were

749
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: playing his voice note and they were lip syncing to

750
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: it while like doing a little like funny bit, And

751
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: that was their TikTok. And I get that that's funny,

752
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: and I get that, like dating is hard, but I

753
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,720
Speaker 1: also think that if somebody is genuinely trying to connect

754
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: with you, even if you're not interested, blasting him on

755
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: the internet for his genuine, non creepy, non scummy, non

756
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: abusive voice note to you, I don't think it's very cool.

757
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, it feels mean, but I guess it does kind

758
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 4: of highlight that there's kind of a gray area. I

759
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 4: guess there's I follow this instrog macout Tinder, date disasters

760
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 4: or something oh like that. Uh, and it's bad and

761
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 4: it's like it's mainly men sending like really offensive, bad

762
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 4: messages and it's.

763
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 3: Funny to see them dunked on.

764
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 4: But there's you know, this story makes me think that

765
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 4: there's I don't know, a continuum from like really bad

766
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 4: worthy of being blasted to the internet to like just

767
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 4: kind of silly and maybe dopey and like we could

768
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 4: have some fun making fun of it.

769
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 3: But maybe that is mean.

770
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: Well I so, God, that's it's complicated. I agree with you, right.

771
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: I think that dating, particularly online dating, is a healthscape.

772
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: I think that people will say growth messed up things

773
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 1: to you. I don't really have a problem with those

774
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 1: people being aired out. Like if you send some like

775
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: untoward stuff to somebody, I think that like you get

776
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 1: what you get. But if someone is just sending you

777
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 1: like a like an earnest message of trying to connect

778
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: with you, I think that online dating, you were automatically

779
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: in a little bit of a vulnerable place. And if

780
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: you're coming to try to connect with somebody in a

781
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: real way, even if you're not interested, I think it's

782
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: one thing to make fun of the message with your friends,

783
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: the group chat if another thing to make a public TikTok,

784
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: Like I don't know anybody in this TikTok and I

785
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: saw this, It's like, why was that necessary? But I

786
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: do think that your point highlights how complicated online connection

787
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: and online dating is in this day and age. I

788
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: think that, like people have to put up with a

789
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: lot of behavior that maybe doesn't rise to like being abusive,

790
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: but doesn't feel good. Like it doesn't feel good to

791
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: be ghosted. I got ghosted once and I hated it right, Like,

792
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't.

793
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 3: Feel good once.

794
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: I mean, how has they even ghosted?

795
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 2: Oh?

796
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 4: It was just like not a thing that I would

797
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 4: count that was just like par.

798
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 3: For the course with online dating. Oh I maybe it's me,

799
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 3: Oh don't I don't think it's me.

800
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: So I I mean, I've heard different ghost philosophies that,

801
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: like some people say, you know, if we just like

802
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: match on Tinder, I don't know you. I don't owe

803
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: you being like hey, I don't want to meet up.

804
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: This is like I don't owe you that message. I

805
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: don't know how I feel. I haven't online dated enough

806
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: to like have a real opinion about this. I believe

807
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: that like if you. I don't know. I don't. I

808
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 1: don't even want to say, like, I've only been ghosted

809
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: once and it's stuck with me, and I it was,

810
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: it was it stuck with me enough that I was

811
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 1: like you you it's it's a five minute text. It's like, hey,

812
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: it's not working out, good luck, you know.

813
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess you know.

814
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 4: So I haven't been online dating in years, but back

815
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,479
Speaker 4: when I was, it kind of was a numbers game,

816
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 4: and like I didn't want some sort of long drawn

817
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 4: out explanation of like why it wasn't gonna go on.

818
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 3: Just yeah, like don't right back, I get the message.

819
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: But you're fine with being ghosted?

820
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean with like a casual it would be

821
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 4: different if it was like we've gone out several times

822
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 4: and then all of a sudden you disappeared, that would

823
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 4: be a different thing. But like, you know, we go

824
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 4: out once, or maybe like don't even go out once,

825
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 4: right because like on you know, you match with somebody

826
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 4: on tender, you exchange some text messages and uh and

827
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 4: then they just like stop replying, right, like message received.

828
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: Well, I guess if that's your definition of ghosting, maybe

829
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: I have ghosts.

830
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 3: In some people. Yeah, maybe it's just a difference of definition.

831
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: I think that's true. But I guess my point is that, like.

832
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 3: What was the one that stuck with you?

833
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: Uh, the time that I had concrete plans to meet

834
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: at a specific place at a specific time and I

835
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: went there and not only did this person not show up,

836
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: they didn't have the courtesy of texting me to tell

837
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: me that they weren't gonna show up. That was a

838
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: ghosting that sticks with me because I was like, couldn't

839
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: you couldn't you could have texted that you're not gonna

840
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: come and get this. This motherfucker had the nerve to

841
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: text me a couple of weeks later like Hey, what

842
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: are you up to? Guess who didn't reply me. Anyway,

843
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: My point is is that I think that navigating online

844
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: dating especially is really complex, and it's like full of

845
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: feelings that don't feel good, vulnerability putting yourself out there,

846
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: and I think that that can lead to this feeling

847
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: where people feel like it's okay to make public what

848
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: is said to them in the in the context of

849
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: online dating. I think it's if somebody is being abusive

850
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: or awful or be on the pale, absolutely, but someone

851
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: just being like a bit dopey, Like whatever happened to

852
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: just talking shit with your friends, you know, whatever happened

853
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: to like just like making fun of somebody in the

854
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: group text you gotta make a TikTok You got to

855
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: bring me into this. A stranger who doesn't even know

856
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: anybody is involved in this.

857
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe maybe, like the existential question there is, like

858
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 4: what do we owe strangers? Is a stranger fair game

859
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 4: for you know, talking about in public because we're just strangers,

860
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 4: Like I'm essentially a member of the public to them.

861
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 4: But then again, if we have an interaction, we're no

862
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 4: longer strangers, and maybe we do owe them something.

863
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: You're listening to there Are No Girls on the Internet

864
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: live at the iHeart Podcast Studio powered by Both at

865
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: the House of Music at iHeart Music Festival, and we

866
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 1: were just talking about what we owe strangers and why.

867
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,919
Speaker 1: So many times it seems like these traumas and situations

868
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: involving people we don't even know get served to us

869
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 1: on platforms like TikTok. And one thing that is interesting

870
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: is that I do think that TikTok has some unique

871
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 1: features as a platform that make this kind of everyday

872
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: people tabloid content that we're talking about really take off

873
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: the language that is used on the platform and has

874
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: really been normalized on the platform. I'm talking about things

875
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: like story time or if you are so and so

876
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: and you live in such and such, listen up, because

877
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: I just heard your friends da da da dah. Like

878
00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: there's a certain kind of language or you know, way

879
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: of speaking that I on TikTok that I think triggers

880
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: our brain into thinking that we have a kind of

881
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: faux intimacy, and that it gets your brains like wanting

882
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: to hear that like juicy gossip, Like it gets your

883
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: like Gossip Center and your brain kind of tingling.

884
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, faux intimacy. That that feels right.

885
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 3: I feel like there's something there.

886
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many times I've been up

887
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: late really invested in a story about people that I've

888
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: never met, that I will never met, in a place

889
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: and a part of the world that I don't live

890
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: in that I've never been visited, that I'm like, I

891
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: gotta find out what happened. I need to know, And

892
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, it's like a faux intimacy. Why why

893
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: do I feel like I should be this and why Like,

894
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: why should I be this invested in the in the

895
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 1: dramas of people that I don't know? So, as doctor

896
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: Dentin points out, TikTok's storytelling practices mimic exclusive reports, hot takes,

897
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 1: and cliffhanger media, Tiktoker's dangle tantalizing bit of Tiktoker's dangle

898
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: tantalizing bits of stories in front of viewers with caveats

899
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: like like for part two or by serializing their content,

900
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 1: these stories then take on lives of their own, becoming

901
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: culturally embedded memes. And I'm sure if you've if folks

902
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: listening are on TikTok, when somebody says is telling a

903
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 1: story and you're invested in it, and then they're like, oh,

904
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: I'm running out of time, I'm gonna do a part two,

905
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, well that was a leftdown, Like

906
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: you you don't get that whatever that brain you know

907
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: thing is that happens when you get a story completed,

908
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: you don't get And I think that TikTokers on the

909
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: platform specifically are like using that, keep serializing stories and

910
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: keeping us invested in That's one way that TikTok is

911
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: specifically well poised to get us all invested in the

912
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: dramas of strangers. And of course, the more of this

913
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: content that we consume, the more we're training algorithms that

914
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: that is the kind of content that we want to

915
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 1: see and engage with. It's this cycle where we are

916
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: the never ended surveiller and also surveiled, And that is

917
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: my big point that most of the content relies on

918
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 1: projecting these stories onto strangers. The more that we consume

919
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 1: that kind of content, engage with that kind of content,

920
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: and normalize that kind of content, the more we are

921
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 1: going to train be trained to like see the world

922
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: in this way when we're out and about, right, the

923
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: more we're going to see, like when we see an

924
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: older woman out enjoying a movie, we're gonna think.

925
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 5: Oh, not only is it normal, but it might be

926
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 5: sweet and wholesome to like whip out my phone and

927
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 5: get a video of her without her content and blast

928
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:39,760
Speaker 5: it to the whole internet.

929
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 1: Right. I think that the more that we consume this content,

930
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: the more we normalize this cycle, the cycle of us

931
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: being both the surveiled and the surveiler. It invites us

932
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 1: to see strangers as characters in worlds that we have

933
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: built in our heads and putting that on the Internet

934
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: for thousands to feet into as well. But people don't

935
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: exist to the unwitting characters and the fictionalized dramas that

936
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: people cook up for them. That is not how the

937
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: world works. We are all just trying to get through

938
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: the fucking day. Speaking of getting through the day, you know,

939
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: that's something that has helped me get through this uh

940
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: complicated podcast taping in the iHeart Podcast studio here at

941
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: the iHeart Music Festival.

942
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 4: I could think of a couple things. Are you talking

943
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,240
Speaker 4: about these amazing Bose headphones that we're wearing.

944
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: Why don't think you're gonna be like, is it the

945
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: Gin and Tonic that you had before the taping? Yeah,

946
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Bow's headphones. These things that are nice.

947
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: These are definitely a step up from what I usually use,

948
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: uh and they I was a little bit skeptical of

949
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: their noise canceling qualities, but these really canceled the noise.

950
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: Like we are at a music festival, the bass is pumpin',

951
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 1: but I can only really hear myself clear and loud.

952
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: They are great chin up shoulders, back music, blasting, press

953
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: play and take charge of the music. With bow quiet comfort,

954
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: noise canceling headphones with customizable high fidelity audio and the

955
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 1: ability to shut out the outside noise as you please.

956
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 1: These over the ear headphones come in an iconic design

957
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 1: with colors that are as bold as you. So strut

958
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 1: and stride along with the beat to the sound that

959
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: puts you on top of the world. Let me tell

960
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: you something, talk about shutting out the world. We are

961
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: shutting out a loud music festival to focus on this podcast,

962
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: and Bose has given us the ability to do that.

963
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: So thank you. Bos got a story about an interesting

964
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: thing in tech, or just want to say hi, You

965
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: can reach us at Hello at tengodi dot com. You

966
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: can also find transcripts for today's episode at tengodi dot com.

967
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by

968
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: me bridget Toad. It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed creative.

969
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Terry Harrison is our

970
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: producer and sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer.

971
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: I'm your host, bridget Toad. If you want to help

972
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts for

973
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

974
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.