WEBVTT - Getting By 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:07.360 Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio, Mama, 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:14.000 to get Away, Spits of a little Shame, just so 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:20.319 not to give by, just enough to give bye. Oh 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:29.560 a little Girl onto Vogue, Just not to give by, 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:35.040 just not to give bye. That's Canein Pitkin of the 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:39.199 Lone Bellow, a Brooklyn based band, singing a song she 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.280 wrote straight from the Heart, a song about her mother, 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:47.040 a song about a secret and it's aftermath. This is 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.040 a story about the complex legacy of what we hide 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.519 and the remarkable beauty that can emerge when what has 0:00:53.560 --> 0:01:04.880 been hidden is brought to light. I'm Danny Shapiro and 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.480 this is Family Secrets. The secrets that are kept from us, 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.640 the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:21.800 keep from ourselves. Tell me about the landscape of your childhood. 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.440 Where did you grow up? What was it like. I 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:30.600 grew up in Hardersburg, Virginia, which is a smallish town 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:35.680 I would say midway between Washington, d c. And Richmond, Virginia. 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.959 We learned a lot of Civil War history. I used 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:44.360 to do my cross country practices and trails that ran 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.520 through the battlefield um because there was a lot of ghosts. 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.120 I guess were you aware of that? Do you have 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.600 that sense at the time? Oh? Absolutely, Virginia is just 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:58.960 it'sincially a place. It's kind of a haunted place, and 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:03.840 I think I was always really interested in history, not 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.600 just American history, but world history in general, so it 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:08.919 was a rich place to grow up. When I was 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.079 about ten years old, my parents co founded UH, an 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:16.679 intentionally cross cultural church that focused on and still focuses 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:21.079 on racial reconciliation because at that point Frederick was still 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:26.200 i would say fairly segregated culturally, especially, and I think 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.840 some people just really wanted to do the work of listening. 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.160 So I've been thinking a lot about that with recent 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.840 events and just how when we started the church, we 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.640 were singing, you know, gospel music in the attic of 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.760 this bluegrass music shop. That is the landscape of my 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.160 childhood right there, and I think a lot of how 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:48.079 I became the kind of musician that I am today. 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.600 Brothers and sisters, Oh yeah, I'm the fourth of five siblings, 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.840 um five down a heat siblings, and there's kind of 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.320 a big gap between me and my older brother, and 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.640 so me and a younger brother were kind of like 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.240 the little kids. And then the three older were like 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:08.200 the older kids, And tell me about your mom. My mom. 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.600 Her name is Sharon, She is be she little, she'd 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:16.440 be fierce or whatever that Shakespeare line is. Um. She 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:22.760 to teach, and she dresses in jewel tones. Um. But 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.720 she grew up near St. Louis and then in Omaha, 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.160 so she she was fishing in Omaha. Um. And she 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.360 was the oldest of ten kids. Kind of a genius, 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.760 so I would say, could beat anybody at trivial pursuit, 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:43.280 could answer almost every jeopardy question immediately, that kind of thing. 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:48.320 But definitely Shye Kennan's mom and dad met in the 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:52.720 early nineteen seventies. Her parents were pretty different from each other, 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:57.600 a case of opposites attract Her dad was outgoing, extroverted, 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:01.360 and had a gift for enthusiasm. He loved to travel, 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.120 meet people, get to know people, and just kind of 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.920 figure out what makes them tick. Canine's mom was much 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:12.680 more introverted. As a child, Knine found her kind of opaque. 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.240 She definitely got the sense that there was a lot 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.799 about her mom that she didn't know. She didn't really 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:23.240 talk to me about things the way that some of 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.160 my other friend's moms would and some of my other 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.000 friends would say that their moms were like their best 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.880 friend or you know, their confidant, And I think I 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.280 was got the impression that my mom was just like Dizzy. 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.880 I knew she loved us and she was an amazing mom, 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.080 but she was busy, you know. But as I got older, 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.200 I kind of perceived that there might be a little 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:50.440 more to what I perceived as isolation. After she graduates 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.320 from college, Canine makes plans to move to China and 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.560 her parents take her to the airport to see her off, 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:02.120 and her mother well, her mother just falls apart. I 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:06.400 remember my mom at the airport, like at the Parcher's 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:11.719 gate at Dullis, and she she just broke down. She 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:16.120 was weeping, and honestly, I was pretty confused because I 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.680 was like, I don't really think you needed me that much. 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.039 And you know, we always had like a close relationship. 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.200 I love my mom and she's really caring, but like, 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:30.680 I never saw myself as that important, not in a 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:32.960 bad way, but just I guess I just didn't think 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:35.760 she would be that effective if I left. Had you 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:39.080 gone away to college, yeah, I went to college, Jubilie 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.240 and Mary, but It's only about at most a two 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.280 hour drive, right, So the difference between being a two 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:47.960 hour drive away and being on the other side of 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:49.880 the world. Yeah, and I think it was. And I 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:53.440 had taken trips like I had gone. I've been to India, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.880 and I had done a summer in China the year before, 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.719 and I'd always like to travel, and I had spent 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.080 the entire summer before I moved to China, I did 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.359 like a classic backpacking trip with my younger brother and 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.600 two of my friends. So I was gone a lot. 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.640 And I hadn't really spent significant time at home since 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.920 I had graduated from high school. And so yeah, I 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:20.000 guess I was just confused. Like we didn't have long 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.520 conversations on the phone ever. Um, I just felt like 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:28.400 there wasn't a lot of openness or vulnerability in our relationship. 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:31.559 So what did you make of it? At the time, 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.279 it made me feel guilty for leaving, and it made 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:39.880 me feel like maybe my mom needed me, and I 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:44.120 wasn't sure why. Really it was confusing, but I just, 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:45.440 you know, I had a lot on my mind. I 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.120 was moving to Asia, and you know, I had a 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:49.839 lot to get started. So I think I just kind 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.599 of I buried it, and I tried to be as 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:54.760 good as a long distance daughter as I could be. 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:58.720 I tried to write long emails phone and this was 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.039 way before zoom. This was the Skype days, so the 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.000 Skype a lot, and you know, just trying to let 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.040 them into my world. But it was just kind of surprising. 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:14.800 So you go off to China and how long do 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.320 you stay there before you return to the States. Well, 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.360 they're off and on for about four years, I think. 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.520 Came home for a few months to get married while 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.200 having some visa trouble, and actually my mom was like, 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.320 I was already engaged and we had been planning on 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.920 being engaged for like a year and a half. Sounded 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.720 like a good idea at the time, and then my 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:39.840 mom was like, why don't you just stay here for 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:42.320 a few months, stayn for a few months, and on 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.040 the wedding and get married. So that's what we did. 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:48.560 After they were married, Canine and her husband returned to China, 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:52.360 but they started growing restless. They had good jobs that 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.680 were paying the bills, but they found themselves wondering what 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.440 their next step might be. They thought about graduate school 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.560 coming to the States, but then Canine meets a family 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.560 that had adopted five Chinese kids, all of whom had 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:10.600 special needs. They ran an orphanage and supported the orphanage 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.920 with a bread baking business. They also trained the kids 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.240 who were able to bake so that they'd have skills. 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:21.400 This family and their enterprise really lights Kenin up, so 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.480 she decides to go to culinary school and become a 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:28.600 pastry chef. I knew a lot of people who were 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:32.160 doing kind of microfinance job training, skill training type stuff 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:36.240 for different populations, and so I had always loved baking, 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.280 and I started to think about maybe going to chef 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:43.520 school so I could come back and you know, teacher, 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:47.320 I don't know see what happened with that, but I 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.360 didn't want to rush into it. So my husband I 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:52.800 both decided we would do this really long fast and 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.040 I think it was either a thirty or forty days, 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.600 just like a a juice fast thirty or forty day 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:04.800 juice past. Yeah, you know, why not? I want to 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.360 make sure I heard that right right. It just seems 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.960 like such a huge decision, and I just wanted to 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:16.720 make sure I was like emotionally and mentally and spiritually 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.560 just clear to make it. So about halfway through that fast, 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.400 her mom calls me. So, I'm already kind of on 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:30.320 this like weird journey, this plane of existence that already 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:34.720 feels kind of like Caigros time, just like this amplified 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:38.760 time of importance. And my mom calls me kind of 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:40.600 out of the blue, and she's like, hey, I need 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:45.280 to tell you something, and like, they found my baby. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:52.640 Let's just stop there for a sec think about this. 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:56.520 Imagine being in the middle of a month long juice 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:02.480 fast and hearing these words they found my baby. I 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:08.760 think you might feel like you're hallucinating. And obviously that 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.760 tendance didn't make any sense to me at the time, 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.160 and I asked her to explain, like what do you mean? 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:21.480 And she went on to tell me that my aunt 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:25.640 had been googling their maiden name, which is kind of 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:30.760 a unique name, and had found someone posting on a 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.000 site of people trying to find their birth parents, um 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:38.000 that this was their birth name, and she just knew 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:43.800 it was my my mom's child. I remember my mom 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.360 called me. She was calling all of her kids to 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.040 kind of ask our permission to get in contact with 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:56.200 her her child, and I just remember being like, you 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.120 obviously don't need my permission, but I mean, I'm glad 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:04.560 you are telling us this. And I remember my mom 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:06.800 not being able to say the word rape when she 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.720 was telling me about the child. She she told me 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.120 she had been assaulted, and all this was kind of 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.679 coming out as I'm kind of the way I'm telling 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:19.240 it to you now, just lots of random details. She 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.760 had not dealt with the trauma of it. And then 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:23.680 so I was able to find a piece together that 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:27.680 she had been raped and had gotten pregnant from the 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:31.520 encounter and then had kind of been sent away to 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:35.600 have my half sister. And I'm still not totally sure 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:41.280 as to why. So Canine is halfway around the world 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.959 in Beijing. She's twenty five years old, she hasn't eaten 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:48.320 solid food in a while, and now she discovers the 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.640 source of that opacity she had always sensed in her mother, 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:59.240 the source of her mother's slight remove. So you're years old, 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.120 what you making of this as she's you're getting these 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:10.800 disjointed details. I mean, it's completely overwhelming. I immediately I'm 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:14.720 starting to think about different things from my past, the 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.920 ways that I was raised, the ways that my parents 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.520 would react to certain things that would happen, or things 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.120 in the news, or just as I was growing older, 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.920 the way they would deal with me, and just the 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.000 way that my mom was. It felt like a lot 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:35.040 of things started to make sense. But also, you know, 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.360 my mom was barely able to even tell me what 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:41.559 had happened at this point, and so I felt very overwhelmed. 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:46.000 But I felt really grateful that I had randomly read 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:50.240 Alice Siebold's memoir called Lucky, which is about when she 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.240 was raped as a young college student, and she kind 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:57.560 of goes into the gritty detail right off the bat 0:12:57.600 --> 0:12:59.560 of like everything that happens, and then the whole book 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.920 is her dealing with it. And so I had just 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.960 read this book really by chance, and I felt like 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.800 I had been prepared for this phone call um in 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.360 a strange way, and I was able to kind of 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:16.840 care for my mom a little bit better, I think, 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:22.880 and ask better questions. Did your mind go back to 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.960 that moment in the airport when you were this very 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:29.080 young woman leaving and going, you know, halfway across the world. 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:34.520 It definitely did. And I was able to talk to 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.080 my mom about that later when talking to her about 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:43.880 her own past, and she She just said that I 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:47.160 had always been just a calming presence to her and 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.800 she could just really feel that I cared about her 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:52.760 and then I loved her and that I was for her. 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.440 And she said sometimes that was just like difficult for 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:01.920 her to feel about most people. And I don't know 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:06.760 if it's just my style of communicating or something else, 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.320 but I felt like a gift. You know, when someone 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.439 tells you that they really feel loved by you, that's 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:17.480 a special thing because that's something that you can't really control. 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.160 I'm gathering that she made that same phone quality each 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.640 one of your siblings. And it also it's interesting because 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.800 it sounds like she didn't have to. I've heard a 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.200 lot of stories where in a way, someone's hand is 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:38.560 forced because you know someone has come forward and made 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.760 themselves known and the story is going to come out. 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.200 This wasn't a story that was going to come out. 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.240 You know, your aunt doing that research and finding that 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:53.960 name and seeing that it must be your mother's child. 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.080 It sounds like it opened something up in your mother 0:14:57.720 --> 0:14:59.960 of I can't just put this back in the bott 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:04.280 x mm hmm. Yeah. I mean she was definitely offered 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.880 the can of worms and given the choice open order don't, 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.960 And I'm really proud of her that she did. I 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:16.360 think she thought, for what it was an opportunity to 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.080 heal and to deal with some things that had not 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.440 been dealt with, and to connect with someone that she 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.840 thought she had lost. It was supposed to be a 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:30.520 closed adoption, but they mistakenly put my mother's maiden name 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:35.760 on the file, and so that was how my half 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.320 sister found her. So I think my mom really had 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.840 never thought it would be a possibility, and then I 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:46.360 think it just felt like a second chance against all 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:51.280 the odds. When your mom told you, it was with 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:56.160 a sense that she was interested in knowing more, reaching out. 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:01.640 I mean, what happened next, so like it happened pretty quickly. 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.720 I think they had a phone call and then I 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.080 remember I got to the stage maybe a month or 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.800 two later, and my little brother and I and my 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.920 mom and dad went to Omaha to meet Dory, my 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:21.480 half sister and her family, and my dad and mom 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.320 went and had dinner with her one night, and then 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:26.360 my little brother and I joined the next day and 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:30.160 we went to the to the zoo with Doria and 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:37.080 her family. She has three kids. Imagine walking past, a 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.920 group of people at the zoo, an older couple, several 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:45.320 younger women and men, some kids, just a family having 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:50.600 an outing, just like everybody else, right, except all families 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:57.160 have stories, and sometimes these stories are secrets and require love, patients, care, 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:03.800 compassion when these stories begin to be told. It was 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:10.320 a lot for them both, and I think it was 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.560 just the beginning of what ended up being a really 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.560 long process for both of them. And I know a 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.080 lot more about my mom's side of the process and stories, 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:24.320 but the beginning of kind of being able to go 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:29.320 back and work through the trauma. It was amazing because 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.080 it was it was this opportunity to meet her and 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.639 see her as was fully formed, like beautiful woman. She 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.760 looks more like my mom than any of the siblings do, 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.960 any like me or any of my siblings do. And 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.800 she has this beautiful family. She had just had these 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.600 two twin boys, and I don't know. She was a real, 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.399 like concrete person with the life, and I think that 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.160 was incredibly helpful for my mother to see. And then 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.000 once she could see that, she could go back and 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:04.760 deal with the pain that was the genesis of this 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:09.119 this beautiful life, you know, the idea that you know, 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:13.720 we are not the pain that has formed us. Yeah, exactly. 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.639 Had your mother told your father about her history? Yeah, 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.720 he had known, but he doesn't really like to talk 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.760 about stuff. He had a pretty rough upbringing, so he's 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:29.399 a very he's very sensitive, he's very sweet, but he 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:33.399 can be a little inaccessible as well emotionally sometimes. But 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.480 it wasn't a surprise to him. No, he knew about it, 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:40.359 because that would have been an even more different story. Right. Absolutely, 0:18:45.280 --> 0:19:00.119 We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets. Now. 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.720 Kenine is back in the States. She's training to be 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:06.040 a chef. She's singing on the side. She's always been 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.760 a singer, and one day she feels in for a 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.760 friend who needs help with a gig, and something happens, 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.600 some kind of kismet, some kind of magic, when their 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:19.600 voices blend together. You can't force this stuff, you can't 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:26.240 make it happen, but when it does, it's unmistakable. The juice. Yeah, 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:31.639 the juice. So at that point you started loan Bellow 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:33.520 and you we were like, this is a thing, and 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.800 we're doing this. It took a little while for to 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:41.520 kind of solidify into the format it is today. And 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.800 my bandmates are named Zack and Brian, and they had 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.520 both been pursuing their own music careers for a long time, 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.800 and my husband and I had done my husband's names Jason. 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:56.120 Jason and I had done a lot of gigs when 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:59.320 we were in China Um and we had an agent 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:02.919 who would get us these like bonkers gigs that like 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.320 I don't know, the opening of a future apartment complex, 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.960 and like super bizar Jason wants to march in the 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.399 parade wearing a Swedish flag. It was very strange, and 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.479 we we had a lot of our own music and stuff, 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.720 but we had never really thought about doing professionally. It's 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.159 always a lot of fun in the hobby, something we 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:23.919 love doing. So when I got to New York and 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.159 I was going to pastry Chef School in Manhattan, I 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:30.680 ended up singing with Zack filling in for somebody, and 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.119 he just like knew immediately he was like coming to 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:38.280 be in abandon me. And then randomly, one day when 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.760 I was filling in at a show of his, Brian 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:44.080 or other bandmate got on stage and it was when 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:45.959 three of us sang together, we all just felt it. 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:48.840 I love singing with them. And it's it's so much fun, 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:52.359 but it really hijacked my plan of going back to 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:56.359 China and becoming a pastry chef. And there was a 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.080 kind of a moment where Jason and I had to 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.240 decide if we were going to try to day in 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.040 the States and do the band, or if we're going 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.640 to move back. And you know what I always say 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.480 is no one ever gets that opportunity and says I'll 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:13.200 be in a band when I'm older. Um, we decided 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:18.159 to go for it. We recorded our first record Summer 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:21.080 of two thousand eleven, and it came out January two. 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.760 So it was about, you know, a couple of years 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:29.280 in the making, I find myself connecting that, Like that's 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.320 sort of that magic that happened on on stage and 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.920 the sort of accidental random nature of like the three 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:37.600 of you ending up on the same stage at the 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:41.760 same time, singing with your reading the alice eye bold, 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:48.919 you know, random, um, and yet totally shapes what happens next. Absolutely. 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:51.920 I mean one of the things that I was really 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.880 struck by is your song just enough to get by. 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.680 There's this lyric, it's the chorus if Silence is Golden, 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:02.240 I know a lot of wealthy women buying what's sold 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.720 to them, buying anything but freedom. And I understand it 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.720 to be a song that you wrote about your mother's experience, 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:16.880 maybe for your mother. How has this discovery in your life, 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:23.199 How has it played into your artistic process, the expression 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:27.840 that you do as a songwriter, as a musician. You 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:30.800 know that song, it was really a long time coming. 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:34.440 I've heard Brian singing this little melody just as a 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.359 good book kind of lounge e and I think he 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:42.719 was like thinking about drinking or smoking or something, and 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:45.080 it was weird because it was kind of a jolly 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:47.439 sounding melody. But as soon as I heard it, I 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.240 thought about my mom. And I think at this point 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:53.840 it had been a couple of years and she had 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.080 been doing this work, and I've been keeping up with 0:22:57.119 --> 0:22:59.760 her progress, like going to a counselor and kind of 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:02.800 trying to work through everything. And I was really proud 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.119 of her for being willing to go back to that place. 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:10.439 And she told me that her one counselor had her 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.480 imagined when she had to walk through it, that someone 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:17.000 was with her, and she said she always imagined it 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:20.280 was me that I was like standing with her, walking 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:23.520 with her through the experience. I felt very honored to 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:27.159 be that kind of presence in my mom's life and 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:29.960 in her recovery. And I think it just made me 0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:34.600 I want to put myself in her shoes and allow 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:37.600 myself to kind of feel I feel my own feelings 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:40.240 about all of it, and she was doing the work 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:45.880 of going through all that emotional trauma, and I think 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:49.639 it made me want to write about things in a 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:53.879 way that would help other people who felt alone and 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:58.560 who felt isolated by their own secrets and by the 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:02.000 shame we put on herself when things be honor control 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:05.560 have happened to us. And yeah, that song. I wrote 0:24:05.600 --> 0:24:07.680 it kind of all in an afternoon in the van, 0:24:09.080 --> 0:24:13.359 and I was just really in my feelings and it 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:17.840 was a very cathartic, very like swift lyrical process. It's 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:22.359 kind of just all came out, and my bandmates really 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:24.720 liked it, but I just kind of I didn't feel 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:28.840 ready to sing it. So Kenin puts the song away, 0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:32.360 just tucks it away, but of course it doesn't actually 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:35.440 go away. She's a little afraid of it. I'm not 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:37.800 sure what to do with it. But a year later, 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.320 during the start of the Me Too, movement. Suddenly she 0:24:41.400 --> 0:24:46.440 knows it's time. I was like, oh damn, I think 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:48.879 I'm ready to sing this. I think I'm ready to 0:24:49.000 --> 0:24:50.480 do it, but I had to make sure that my 0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:52.560 mom was okay with it because I didn't want to. 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:56.439 She was still pretty private about what had happened, and 0:24:56.480 --> 0:24:59.560 I was very sensitive, And I think that song, to me, 0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:04.960 is a very honest reflection that just because you're dealing 0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:10.480 with something doesn't mean it works out in a very 0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:14.560 neat and orderly way. It's not a Hallmark movie ending. 0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:19.840 It's a it's messy, you know, it's it's difficult, it's 0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:23.800 it's heartbreaking, and it's not just like I got raped 0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:25.919 and I had a child and now we're best friends 0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:27.879 and everything is great and I love talking about it. 0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:30.840 That's definitely not That's not how it works out. It's 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:35.880 not how it shakes out. So there was a lot 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:41.000 of frustration in me seeing that people were trying to 0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:43.000 get her to talk about it before she was ready 0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:45.280