1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio, Mama, 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: to get Away, Spits of a little Shame, just so 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: not to give by, just enough to give bye. Oh 4 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: a little Girl onto Vogue, Just not to give by, 5 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: just not to give bye. That's Canein Pitkin of the 6 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: Lone Bellow, a Brooklyn based band, singing a song she 7 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: wrote straight from the Heart, a song about her mother, 8 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: a song about a secret and it's aftermath. This is 9 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: a story about the complex legacy of what we hide 10 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: and the remarkable beauty that can emerge when what has 11 00:00:53,560 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: been hidden is brought to light. I'm Danny Shapiro and 12 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: this is Family Secrets. The secrets that are kept from us, 13 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 14 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: keep from ourselves. Tell me about the landscape of your childhood. 15 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: Where did you grow up? What was it like. I 16 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: grew up in Hardersburg, Virginia, which is a smallish town 17 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: I would say midway between Washington, d c. And Richmond, Virginia. 18 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: We learned a lot of Civil War history. I used 19 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: to do my cross country practices and trails that ran 20 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: through the battlefield um because there was a lot of ghosts. 21 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: I guess were you aware of that? Do you have 22 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: that sense at the time? Oh? Absolutely, Virginia is just 23 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: it'sincially a place. It's kind of a haunted place, and 24 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: I think I was always really interested in history, not 25 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: just American history, but world history in general, so it 26 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: was a rich place to grow up. When I was 27 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: about ten years old, my parents co founded UH, an 28 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 1: intentionally cross cultural church that focused on and still focuses 29 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: on racial reconciliation because at that point Frederick was still 30 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: i would say fairly segregated culturally, especially, and I think 31 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: some people just really wanted to do the work of listening. 32 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: So I've been thinking a lot about that with recent 33 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: events and just how when we started the church, we 34 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: were singing, you know, gospel music in the attic of 35 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: this bluegrass music shop. That is the landscape of my 36 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: childhood right there, and I think a lot of how 37 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: I became the kind of musician that I am today. 38 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: Brothers and sisters, Oh yeah, I'm the fourth of five siblings, 39 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: um five down a heat siblings, and there's kind of 40 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: a big gap between me and my older brother, and 41 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: so me and a younger brother were kind of like 42 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: the little kids. And then the three older were like 43 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: the older kids, And tell me about your mom. My mom. 44 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: Her name is Sharon, She is be she little, she'd 45 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: be fierce or whatever that Shakespeare line is. Um. She 46 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: to teach, and she dresses in jewel tones. Um. But 47 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: she grew up near St. Louis and then in Omaha, 48 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: so she she was fishing in Omaha. Um. And she 49 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: was the oldest of ten kids. Kind of a genius, 50 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: so I would say, could beat anybody at trivial pursuit, 51 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: could answer almost every jeopardy question immediately, that kind of thing. 52 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: But definitely Shye Kennan's mom and dad met in the 53 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: early nineteen seventies. Her parents were pretty different from each other, 54 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: a case of opposites attract Her dad was outgoing, extroverted, 55 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: and had a gift for enthusiasm. He loved to travel, 56 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: meet people, get to know people, and just kind of 57 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: figure out what makes them tick. Canine's mom was much 58 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: more introverted. As a child, Knine found her kind of opaque. 59 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: She definitely got the sense that there was a lot 60 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,799 Speaker 1: about her mom that she didn't know. She didn't really 61 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: talk to me about things the way that some of 62 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: my other friend's moms would and some of my other 63 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: friends would say that their moms were like their best 64 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: friend or you know, their confidant, And I think I 65 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: was got the impression that my mom was just like Dizzy. 66 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: I knew she loved us and she was an amazing mom, 67 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: but she was busy, you know. But as I got older, 68 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: I kind of perceived that there might be a little 69 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: more to what I perceived as isolation. After she graduates 70 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: from college, Canine makes plans to move to China and 71 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: her parents take her to the airport to see her off, 72 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: and her mother well, her mother just falls apart. I 73 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: remember my mom at the airport, like at the Parcher's 74 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: gate at Dullis, and she she just broke down. She 75 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: was weeping, and honestly, I was pretty confused because I 76 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: was like, I don't really think you needed me that much. 77 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: And you know, we always had like a close relationship. 78 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: I love my mom and she's really caring, but like, 79 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: I never saw myself as that important, not in a 80 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: bad way, but just I guess I just didn't think 81 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: she would be that effective if I left. Had you 82 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: gone away to college, yeah, I went to college, Jubilie 83 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: and Mary, but It's only about at most a two 84 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: hour drive, right, So the difference between being a two 85 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: hour drive away and being on the other side of 86 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, and I think it was. And I 87 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: had taken trips like I had gone. I've been to India, 88 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: and I had done a summer in China the year before, 89 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: and I'd always like to travel, and I had spent 90 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: the entire summer before I moved to China, I did 91 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 1: like a classic backpacking trip with my younger brother and 92 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: two of my friends. So I was gone a lot. 93 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: And I hadn't really spent significant time at home since 94 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: I had graduated from high school. And so yeah, I 95 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: guess I was just confused. Like we didn't have long 96 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: conversations on the phone ever. Um, I just felt like 97 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of openness or vulnerability in our relationship. 98 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:31,559 Speaker 1: So what did you make of it? At the time, 99 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: it made me feel guilty for leaving, and it made 100 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: me feel like maybe my mom needed me, and I 101 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: wasn't sure why. Really it was confusing, but I just, 102 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: you know, I had a lot on my mind. I 103 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: was moving to Asia, and you know, I had a 104 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: lot to get started. So I think I just kind 105 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: of I buried it, and I tried to be as 106 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: good as a long distance daughter as I could be. 107 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: I tried to write long emails phone and this was 108 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: way before zoom. This was the Skype days, so the 109 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: Skype a lot, and you know, just trying to let 110 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: them into my world. But it was just kind of surprising. 111 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: So you go off to China and how long do 112 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: you stay there before you return to the States. Well, 113 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: they're off and on for about four years, I think. 114 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: Came home for a few months to get married while 115 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: having some visa trouble, and actually my mom was like, 116 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: I was already engaged and we had been planning on 117 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: being engaged for like a year and a half. Sounded 118 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: like a good idea at the time, and then my 119 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: mom was like, why don't you just stay here for 120 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: a few months, stayn for a few months, and on 121 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: the wedding and get married. So that's what we did. 122 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: After they were married, Canine and her husband returned to China, 123 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: but they started growing restless. They had good jobs that 124 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: were paying the bills, but they found themselves wondering what 125 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: their next step might be. They thought about graduate school 126 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: coming to the States, but then Canine meets a family 127 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: that had adopted five Chinese kids, all of whom had 128 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: special needs. They ran an orphanage and supported the orphanage 129 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: with a bread baking business. They also trained the kids 130 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: who were able to bake so that they'd have skills. 131 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: This family and their enterprise really lights Kenin up, so 132 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: she decides to go to culinary school and become a 133 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: pastry chef. I knew a lot of people who were 134 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: doing kind of microfinance job training, skill training type stuff 135 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: for different populations, and so I had always loved baking, 136 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: and I started to think about maybe going to chef 137 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: school so I could come back and you know, teacher, 138 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: I don't know see what happened with that, but I 139 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: didn't want to rush into it. So my husband I 140 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: both decided we would do this really long fast and 141 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: I think it was either a thirty or forty days, 142 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: just like a a juice fast thirty or forty day 143 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: juice past. Yeah, you know, why not? I want to 144 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: make sure I heard that right right. It just seems 145 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: like such a huge decision, and I just wanted to 146 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: make sure I was like emotionally and mentally and spiritually 147 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: just clear to make it. So about halfway through that fast, 148 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: her mom calls me. So, I'm already kind of on 149 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: this like weird journey, this plane of existence that already 150 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: feels kind of like Caigros time, just like this amplified 151 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: time of importance. And my mom calls me kind of 152 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: out of the blue, and she's like, hey, I need 153 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: to tell you something, and like, they found my baby. 154 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: Let's just stop there for a sec think about this. 155 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: Imagine being in the middle of a month long juice 156 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: fast and hearing these words they found my baby. I 157 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: think you might feel like you're hallucinating. And obviously that 158 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: tendance didn't make any sense to me at the time, 159 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: and I asked her to explain, like what do you mean? 160 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: And she went on to tell me that my aunt 161 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: had been googling their maiden name, which is kind of 162 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: a unique name, and had found someone posting on a 163 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: site of people trying to find their birth parents, um 164 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: that this was their birth name, and she just knew 165 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: it was my my mom's child. I remember my mom 166 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: called me. She was calling all of her kids to 167 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: kind of ask our permission to get in contact with 168 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 1: her her child, and I just remember being like, you 169 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: obviously don't need my permission, but I mean, I'm glad 170 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: you are telling us this. And I remember my mom 171 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: not being able to say the word rape when she 172 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: was telling me about the child. She she told me 173 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: she had been assaulted, and all this was kind of 174 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: coming out as I'm kind of the way I'm telling 175 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: it to you now, just lots of random details. She 176 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: had not dealt with the trauma of it. And then 177 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: so I was able to find a piece together that 178 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: she had been raped and had gotten pregnant from the 179 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: encounter and then had kind of been sent away to 180 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: have my half sister. And I'm still not totally sure 181 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: as to why. So Canine is halfway around the world 182 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 1: in Beijing. She's twenty five years old, she hasn't eaten 183 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: solid food in a while, and now she discovers the 184 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: source of that opacity she had always sensed in her mother, 185 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: the source of her mother's slight remove. So you're years old, 186 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: what you making of this as she's you're getting these 187 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: disjointed details. I mean, it's completely overwhelming. I immediately I'm 188 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: starting to think about different things from my past, the 189 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: ways that I was raised, the ways that my parents 190 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: would react to certain things that would happen, or things 191 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: in the news, or just as I was growing older, 192 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: the way they would deal with me, and just the 193 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: way that my mom was. It felt like a lot 194 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: of things started to make sense. But also, you know, 195 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: my mom was barely able to even tell me what 196 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: had happened at this point, and so I felt very overwhelmed. 197 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: But I felt really grateful that I had randomly read 198 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: Alice Siebold's memoir called Lucky, which is about when she 199 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: was raped as a young college student, and she kind 200 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: of goes into the gritty detail right off the bat 201 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: of like everything that happens, and then the whole book 202 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: is her dealing with it. And so I had just 203 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: read this book really by chance, and I felt like 204 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: I had been prepared for this phone call um in 205 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: a strange way, and I was able to kind of 206 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: care for my mom a little bit better, I think, 207 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: and ask better questions. Did your mind go back to 208 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: that moment in the airport when you were this very 209 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: young woman leaving and going, you know, halfway across the world. 210 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: It definitely did. And I was able to talk to 211 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: my mom about that later when talking to her about 212 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: her own past, and she She just said that I 213 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: had always been just a calming presence to her and 214 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: she could just really feel that I cared about her 215 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: and then I loved her and that I was for her. 216 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: And she said sometimes that was just like difficult for 217 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: her to feel about most people. And I don't know 218 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: if it's just my style of communicating or something else, 219 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: but I felt like a gift. You know, when someone 220 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 1: tells you that they really feel loved by you, that's 221 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: a special thing because that's something that you can't really control. 222 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: I'm gathering that she made that same phone quality each 223 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: one of your siblings. And it also it's interesting because 224 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: it sounds like she didn't have to. I've heard a 225 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: lot of stories where in a way, someone's hand is 226 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: forced because you know someone has come forward and made 227 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: themselves known and the story is going to come out. 228 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: This wasn't a story that was going to come out. 229 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: You know, your aunt doing that research and finding that 230 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: name and seeing that it must be your mother's child. 231 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: It sounds like it opened something up in your mother 232 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: of I can't just put this back in the bott 233 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: x mm hmm. Yeah. I mean she was definitely offered 234 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: the can of worms and given the choice open order don't, 235 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: And I'm really proud of her that she did. I 236 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: think she thought, for what it was an opportunity to 237 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: heal and to deal with some things that had not 238 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: been dealt with, and to connect with someone that she 239 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: thought she had lost. It was supposed to be a 240 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: closed adoption, but they mistakenly put my mother's maiden name 241 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: on the file, and so that was how my half 242 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: sister found her. So I think my mom really had 243 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: never thought it would be a possibility, and then I 244 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: think it just felt like a second chance against all 245 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: the odds. When your mom told you, it was with 246 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: a sense that she was interested in knowing more, reaching out. 247 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: I mean, what happened next, so like it happened pretty quickly. 248 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: I think they had a phone call and then I 249 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: remember I got to the stage maybe a month or 250 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: two later, and my little brother and I and my 251 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: mom and dad went to Omaha to meet Dory, my 252 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: half sister and her family, and my dad and mom 253 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: went and had dinner with her one night, and then 254 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: my little brother and I joined the next day and 255 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: we went to the to the zoo with Doria and 256 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: her family. She has three kids. Imagine walking past, a 257 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: group of people at the zoo, an older couple, several 258 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: younger women and men, some kids, just a family having 259 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: an outing, just like everybody else, right, except all families 260 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: have stories, and sometimes these stories are secrets and require love, patients, care, 261 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: compassion when these stories begin to be told. It was 262 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: a lot for them both, and I think it was 263 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: just the beginning of what ended up being a really 264 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: long process for both of them. And I know a 265 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: lot more about my mom's side of the process and stories, 266 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: but the beginning of kind of being able to go 267 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: back and work through the trauma. It was amazing because 268 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: it was it was this opportunity to meet her and 269 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: see her as was fully formed, like beautiful woman. She 270 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: looks more like my mom than any of the siblings do, 271 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: any like me or any of my siblings do. And 272 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: she has this beautiful family. She had just had these 273 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: two twin boys, and I don't know. She was a real, 274 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: like concrete person with the life, and I think that 275 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: was incredibly helpful for my mother to see. And then 276 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: once she could see that, she could go back and 277 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: deal with the pain that was the genesis of this 278 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: this beautiful life, you know, the idea that you know, 279 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: we are not the pain that has formed us. Yeah, exactly. 280 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: Had your mother told your father about her history? Yeah, 281 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: he had known, but he doesn't really like to talk 282 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: about stuff. He had a pretty rough upbringing, so he's 283 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: a very he's very sensitive, he's very sweet, but he 284 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: can be a little inaccessible as well emotionally sometimes. But 285 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't a surprise to him. No, he knew about it, 286 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: because that would have been an even more different story. Right. Absolutely, 287 00:18:45,280 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets. Now. 288 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: Kenine is back in the States. She's training to be 289 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: a chef. She's singing on the side. She's always been 290 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: a singer, and one day she feels in for a 291 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: friend who needs help with a gig, and something happens, 292 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: some kind of kismet, some kind of magic, when their 293 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: voices blend together. You can't force this stuff, you can't 294 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: make it happen, but when it does, it's unmistakable. The juice. Yeah, 295 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: the juice. So at that point you started loan Bellow 296 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: and you we were like, this is a thing, and 297 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: we're doing this. It took a little while for to 298 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: kind of solidify into the format it is today. And 299 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: my bandmates are named Zack and Brian, and they had 300 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: both been pursuing their own music careers for a long time, 301 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: and my husband and I had done my husband's names Jason. 302 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: Jason and I had done a lot of gigs when 303 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: we were in China Um and we had an agent 304 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 1: who would get us these like bonkers gigs that like 305 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: I don't know, the opening of a future apartment complex, 306 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: and like super bizar Jason wants to march in the 307 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: parade wearing a Swedish flag. It was very strange, and 308 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,479 Speaker 1: we we had a lot of our own music and stuff, 309 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: but we had never really thought about doing professionally. It's 310 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: always a lot of fun in the hobby, something we 311 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: love doing. So when I got to New York and 312 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: I was going to pastry Chef School in Manhattan, I 313 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: ended up singing with Zack filling in for somebody, and 314 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: he just like knew immediately he was like coming to 315 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: be in abandon me. And then randomly, one day when 316 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: I was filling in at a show of his, Brian 317 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: or other bandmate got on stage and it was when 318 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,959 Speaker 1: three of us sang together, we all just felt it. 319 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: I love singing with them. And it's it's so much fun, 320 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: but it really hijacked my plan of going back to 321 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: China and becoming a pastry chef. And there was a 322 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: kind of a moment where Jason and I had to 323 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: decide if we were going to try to day in 324 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: the States and do the band, or if we're going 325 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: to move back. And you know what I always say 326 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: is no one ever gets that opportunity and says I'll 327 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: be in a band when I'm older. Um, we decided 328 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: to go for it. We recorded our first record Summer 329 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: of two thousand eleven, and it came out January two. 330 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: So it was about, you know, a couple of years 331 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: in the making, I find myself connecting that, Like that's 332 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: sort of that magic that happened on on stage and 333 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: the sort of accidental random nature of like the three 334 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: of you ending up on the same stage at the 335 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: same time, singing with your reading the alice eye bold, 336 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: you know, random, um, and yet totally shapes what happens next. Absolutely. 337 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: I mean one of the things that I was really 338 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: struck by is your song just enough to get by. 339 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: There's this lyric, it's the chorus if Silence is Golden, 340 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: I know a lot of wealthy women buying what's sold 341 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: to them, buying anything but freedom. And I understand it 342 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: to be a song that you wrote about your mother's experience, 343 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: maybe for your mother. How has this discovery in your life, 344 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 1: How has it played into your artistic process, the expression 345 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: that you do as a songwriter, as a musician. You 346 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: know that song, it was really a long time coming. 347 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: I've heard Brian singing this little melody just as a 348 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: good book kind of lounge e and I think he 349 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 1: was like thinking about drinking or smoking or something, and 350 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: it was weird because it was kind of a jolly 351 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: sounding melody. But as soon as I heard it, I 352 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: thought about my mom. And I think at this point 353 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: it had been a couple of years and she had 354 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: been doing this work, and I've been keeping up with 355 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: her progress, like going to a counselor and kind of 356 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: trying to work through everything. And I was really proud 357 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: of her for being willing to go back to that place. 358 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: And she told me that her one counselor had her 359 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: imagined when she had to walk through it, that someone 360 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: was with her, and she said she always imagined it 361 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: was me that I was like standing with her, walking 362 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: with her through the experience. I felt very honored to 363 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: be that kind of presence in my mom's life and 364 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: in her recovery. And I think it just made me 365 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: I want to put myself in her shoes and allow 366 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: myself to kind of feel I feel my own feelings 367 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: about all of it, and she was doing the work 368 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: of going through all that emotional trauma, and I think 369 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: it made me want to write about things in a 370 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 1: way that would help other people who felt alone and 371 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: who felt isolated by their own secrets and by the 372 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: shame we put on herself when things be honor control 373 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: have happened to us. And yeah, that song. I wrote 374 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: it kind of all in an afternoon in the van, 375 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: and I was just really in my feelings and it 376 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: was a very cathartic, very like swift lyrical process. It's 377 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: kind of just all came out, and my bandmates really 378 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: liked it, but I just kind of I didn't feel 379 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: ready to sing it. So Kenin puts the song away, 380 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: just tucks it away, but of course it doesn't actually 381 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: go away. She's a little afraid of it. I'm not 382 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: sure what to do with it. But a year later, 383 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: during the start of the Me Too, movement. Suddenly she 384 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: knows it's time. I was like, oh damn, I think 385 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: I'm ready to sing this. I think I'm ready to 386 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: do it, but I had to make sure that my 387 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: mom was okay with it because I didn't want to. 388 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: She was still pretty private about what had happened, and 389 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: I was very sensitive, And I think that song, to me, 390 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: is a very honest reflection that just because you're dealing 391 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: with something doesn't mean it works out in a very 392 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: neat and orderly way. It's not a Hallmark movie ending. 393 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: It's a it's messy, you know, it's it's difficult, it's 394 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking, and it's not just like I got raped 395 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: and I had a child and now we're best friends 396 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: and everything is great and I love talking about it. 397 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: That's definitely not That's not how it works out. It's 398 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: not how it shakes out. So there was a lot 399 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: of frustration in me seeing that people were trying to 400 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: get her to talk about it before she was ready 401 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: and get her to kind of spin it into this 402 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: thing that it wasn't. So I was very sensitive. We 403 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: like neat and tidy narratives that we can tie up 404 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: in a bow. Yeah, yeah, So I knew it wasn't that, 405 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: so I wanted the song to kind of have this 406 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: uneasy too. It kind of how could started healing, but 407 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: also just an honest feeling of like I don't really 408 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: know how to sense. What was your mother's response when 409 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: you worked up the courage to, you know, take her 410 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: the song and show her what you've written. She liked it. 411 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: She was very encouraging about it, and I was, I know, 412 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: I was nervous as hell. I was like I was 413 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: shaken in my boots taking it to her because I 414 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: just didn't, you know, I didn't want to feel like 415 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: I was like voyeuristic or I don't know, just being 416 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: like I used your pain to make an apodoy. But 417 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: you know, I think she recognized that I put a 418 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: lot of myself into that song too, and she said 419 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: it was a very accurate portrayal of of what she 420 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 1: went through, and that took a lot of weight off 421 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: my shoulders and it made me prepared to kind of 422 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: go to bat for the song and make it as 423 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: good as it could be. What's it been like to 424 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: perform the song? It's been awesome. Is there anything different 425 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: about it than performing your other songs that are maybe 426 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: a little bit less loaded ha ha. I can definitely 427 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 1: see some people getting a little uncomfortable. And I've had 428 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: people right near people come up to me after the 429 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: show and tell me their stories which are in some 430 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: way similar to my mom. Um that's been, That's been everything, 431 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: you know. That's all I've really desired is that it's 432 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: just a helpful thing for people. We're going to take 433 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: a quick break here for a word from our sponsor. 434 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: If there's one thing I've learned from hosting this podcast, 435 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: it's that when there are secrets, there is almost always shame, 436 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: a drumbeat beneath. That's why the secrets being kept. And 437 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: then the shame has its own legacy. It works on 438 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: people we know something isn't right, but we can't put 439 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: our finger on it. Then sometimes we have an opportunity 440 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: to take that legacy of shame and make something that 441 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: reaches and helps other people and explodes the shame by 442 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: naming it. I'm just so indebted to my sister Dory. 443 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: I have sister Dory and my mom. We're just really 444 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: being willing to to do the work of bringing into 445 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: the light talking about it, and I think their bravery 446 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: and just willingness to go somewhere uncomfortable and willingness to 447 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: to be honest and transparent has I feel like it 448 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: really has unlocked something in me. And I think specifically 449 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: growing up with that secret not knowing about it, my 450 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: parents were pretty overprotective, I would say, and I think 451 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: I saw a lot of shame, just like being a woman, 452 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: and I kind of felt like I was suspect of 453 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: a lot of things. And I think once I had 454 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: known about my mom, it just made sense. It made 455 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: sense where they were protected. But it also kind of 456 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: freed me from thinking that I had something to do 457 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: with it, you know what I mean. I was a 458 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: good kid, you know, like boring that way, and so 459 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: I always felt pretty frustrated that I felt like my 460 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: parents didn't trust me. And I think now the lesson 461 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: that has taught me is just with my own son, 462 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: I think about ways that I can be honest and 463 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: open with him, and that I can give him the 464 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: gift of my transparency and my my story. Yeah. I 465 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: was going to ask you about exactly that, because I 466 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,959 Speaker 1: think becoming a mother, becoming a parent, tends to make 467 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: us reflect back on how we were children and how 468 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: we were parented and and the things that we carried 469 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: or the legacy of that, and you know, the pendulum 470 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: swings and swings again, and your son is held. He'll 471 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: be three next week. So I have I guess one 472 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: last question for you, as you think about this, as 473 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: you think about everything that has transpired since that first 474 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: phone call when you were in your mid twenties, are 475 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: you glad that all this came out? Absolutely? Because I've 476 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: you know, I've gained a sister, and I can see 477 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: the freedom has brought my mom at a great cost, 478 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: for sure. But there's something unspeakably good about a life 479 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: and a beautiful person who you love coming out of 480 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: such a a tragedy, And it just feels like a 481 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: gift that there should be any any good that comes 482 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: out of it at all. But I think it has 483 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: helped me understand my mother and understand what a lot 484 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: of women have been through so much more. And that's 485 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: all I really want in life, to understand people better. 486 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: You know. That's beautiful, Kenney, Thank you so much. Hello. Attle. 487 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is an I Heeart media production. Dylan Fagan 488 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: is the supervising producer and Bethan Macaluso is the executive producer. 489 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: We'd also like to give a special thanks to Tyler 490 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: Klang and Tristan McNeil. If you have a family secret 491 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: you'd like to share, leave us a voicemail and your 492 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: story could appear on an upcoming episode. Our number is 493 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: one eight eight eight secret zero. That's secret and then 494 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: the number zero. You can also find us on Instagram 495 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: at Danny Ryder and Facebook at facebook dot com slash 496 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: Family Secrets Pod, and Twitter at fami Secrets pot go by. 497 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I 498 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to 499 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.