1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Jusie. 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: You remember those three episodes that we did on maps 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: a while back. Oh, yes, yeah, it's pretty interesting stuff. 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: We talked about the way maps form our view of reality, 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: how maps exist not only on paper but in our minds. 8 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: We talked about the some of the history of cartography, 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: some of the problems entailed within right, and just exploration 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: in general, how matt making was this way to, you know, 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: make a concrete idea of the abstract notions of the 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: world around us. But one area that we didn't really 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: get into they were going to explore today is the 14 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: world of monstrosity, particularly the world of sea monster. Because 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: if you look back on old enough maps, you inevitably 16 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: encounter fantastic things. You you would, of course encounter fantastic 17 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: land forms that deviate to varying degrees from what we 18 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: know or believe to be the shape of our continents. 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: And then if you go out in the water, you 20 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: see these strange creatures that don't match up particularly well 21 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: with anything that actually exists, and yet like these creatures 22 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: that are represented on these maps, they are really powerful symbols. 23 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: And we just talked about the power of symbols in 24 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: the previous episode. So there's stand ins both for dangerous, 25 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: real and imagined. Yeah, and Uh, it turns out the whole, 26 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: the whole area of sea monsters is a largely understudied topic, 27 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: particularly we're talking about sea monsters on maps. I recently 28 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: attended a lecture by author Chet van Douser, who has 29 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: put together fabulous book called Sea Monsters on Menieval and 30 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: Renaissance Maps, and he thoroughly explored this topic. True and Uh, 31 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to read a little bit from Ben Shattuck's 32 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: article from Salon. He talks about why, uh, the ocean 33 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: provide such a rich grounds for imagination. He says, there's 34 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: something about the ocean that keeps on giving to cryptozoology, 35 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: mostly because it's a great dark room whose door only 36 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: opens when animals rise to breathe or eat or some themselves, 37 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: or when they flash through a cone of light shot 38 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: from a deep water submersible. There's a bet of sunlight 39 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: caught in the first ten feet or so of water, 40 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: and then total and huge blackness. Still, though the unsettling 41 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: sea generates a productive fear to stoke our imaginations. That 42 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: Ben shattic, he's good. He's also, of course the guy 43 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: who wrote that the excellent article about being swallowed alive 44 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: by whale. That's right. So we're talking about monsters, which 45 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 1: we've we've touched on monsters before. I frequently blog about monsters, 46 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: and as I like to point out, the word monstrosity 47 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 1: originates from the Latin monster aary, which means to show 48 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: or illustrate a point. And in this as a Van 49 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: Deuser points out, it falls in line with the St. 50 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: Augustine's view of a monster as something that's part of 51 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: God's plan, an adornment of the universe that can also 52 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: teach us about the dangers of sin. But then there 53 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: are other medieval commentators that define a monster is a 54 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: thing against nature. So we have to sort of clarify 55 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: what are we talking about when we talk about a monster, 56 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: Because on one hand, a monster is, uh, you know, 57 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: a fantastic creature that is against the natural order and 58 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: doesn't actually exist in reality. But then we have things 59 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: like river monsters the Animal Planet show, where these are 60 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: actually real world animals, but we refer to them as 61 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,519 Speaker 1: monsters because they are on some level monstrous. Yeah, I 62 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: mean they defy our expectations, right, because we have knowledge 63 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: of our land animals, we have knowledge of ourselves. But 64 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: when we see these creatures that come from the depths 65 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: and they are so odd and like est but not 66 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: like us, well they become abominations. Yeah. The popular theory 67 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: in the medieval ages and on up into the sixteenth 68 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: century was this idea that anything that exists on land, 69 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: there's a version of it that exists in the water. 70 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: And this goes back to planting the elder statements in 71 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: natural history. So the idea here is that the have 72 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: a stag that lives in the land. Well, then there's 73 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: a sea stag somewhere. There's a lion lives on the land. 74 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: Well there's a sea lion. There are men, there are merment, 75 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: and literally it really gets ridiculous when you start looking 76 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: at the sheer number, because you make it go always 77 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: just making some of these up. But just to to 78 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: look in the index of Van Deuser's book, there's a 79 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: reference to a sea bear, sea bish of a sea bowl, 80 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: a sea chicken, a sea cow, sea dogs, sea dragon, 81 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: au see elephant, sea, frogs, goats, hairs, horses, lions, monks, panthers, pigs, pig, dogs, 82 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: pig lions, rabbits, rams, rooster, serpent, stags, tigers, unicorns, and wolves. 83 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: Uh and uh you know. Just so, so you have 84 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: that idea, that existing sort of philosophic idea of how 85 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: the world works, and you bring that with you into 86 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: an actual observation and second and third hand accounts of 87 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: what is actually going on in the ocean, and you 88 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: can see where various uh bits of false data emerge. Well, 89 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: and just to confuse things about you have some animals 90 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: from mythology like you have. You've got you of corns. 91 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: But then you've got normals which actually exists. So what 92 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: do you get. Of course, you get some sort of 93 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: creature that is a unicorn fish like creature flilling out 94 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: there in the ocean. Exactly. Now, when we talk about 95 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: these maps, talking about these old maps, particularly medieval maps, 96 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: we're basically talking about two kinds of maps. First of all, 97 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,799 Speaker 1: there is the mapa mundi, a map of the world. 98 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: And it's really cool when you look at the simplest 99 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: and oldest of these, you have what we call a 100 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: t O map, and I'll include a picture of one 101 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: of these in the gallery that accompanies this episode. But 102 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: a t O map. If you'll picture a big circle, 103 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: all right, that's the world, Okay. Imagine a central land 104 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: mass surrounded by a circular ocean. Now imagine a horizontal 105 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: line running across it. Cutting it into that line is 106 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: the Aegean and Black Sea on the left, and then 107 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: Nile on the Red Sea on the right. And then 108 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: a dividing line down the center of that line, forming 109 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: the stalk of the t that's the Mediterranean Sea. So 110 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: this is a vision of the world sort of on 111 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: its side, where the center of it, the very center 112 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: of the circle is Jerusalem, because that's the center of 113 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: the world, you know, Western Christian tradition, and so the 114 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: whole northern half of the circle is Asia. Then the 115 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: lower left hand quarter is Europe, in the lower right 116 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: hand quarter is Africa. Okay. So this is really a 117 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: map that is not used to navigate. It's rather a 118 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,119 Speaker 1: map that's used to record our ideas about the world 119 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: and how it's configured. Yeah, you know, we talked about 120 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: when we did our map episodes. We talked about, say 121 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: something like the map of the tube system in London 122 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: about how important important it is uh, certainly to to 123 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: get around London, but also to form an idea in 124 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: the londoner's mind of what their city looks like, in 125 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: what their city is. This was a map to make 126 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: sense of the stories you were hearing about. All right, 127 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: Jerusalem so important? Where is it compared to me? Where? 128 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: Where's where is Africa compared to me? Where? How do 129 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: I fit into the world? And what is the shape 130 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: of the world. And what's interesting about that is it's 131 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: got that configuration, the t configuration, which is directly um 132 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: feeding into this idea that we we know we have 133 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: many more neurons that are dead a hitted to up 134 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: and down and right and left in terms of our 135 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: visual visual field and not diagonal, which is this need 136 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: to try to put everything into a neat little package. 137 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: So that's your earliest world map, and they certainly evolve 138 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: from there up until you know, modern times, as we 139 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: learn more and more about the the what the world 140 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: looks like, and how we get from one place to another. 141 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: So on these maps, on the t O maps, most 142 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: of the real estate here is concerned with the land uh. 143 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: And you'll have some cities marked and some important bits 144 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: of geography. But as in the Girona be at this map, 145 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: sea monsters do appear in the outer ocean that you know, 146 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: the outer the outer edge of the circle, the edge 147 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: of the world. Um. In this particular map from you'll 148 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: find a marine chicken and perhaps Jonah being swallowed by 149 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: whale or having been swallowed by a whale. You see 150 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: like this big fish and you see Jonah in the 151 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: belly um though most of the depictions of Jonah and 152 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: the whale, it's either Jonah being spit up, were swallowed 153 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: like they tend not to dwell on the whole, living 154 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: inside the belly bit. So that's one type of map. 155 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: And then you also have nautical charts because obviously people 156 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: are sailing from one point in the other and they 157 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: need a functional map to tell them how to do that. 158 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: A t O map is not going to help you 159 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: really navigate the world. Again, it's all about where you 160 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: are in your head, where you are actually on a 161 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: ship at sea. You need a nautical map. And so 162 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: these were generally these would generally have an outline of 163 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: the land uh and they were really only concerned with 164 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: coastal cities and ports. And they would connect to each 165 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: other by criss crossing rum lines. So you could look 166 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: at this and you'd be like, all right, this is 167 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: the line you need to follow if you need to 168 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: get from this port to this port, in this city 169 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: to this city. Okay. And the more common variety of 170 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: these maps was purely utilitarian. There were no frills, and 171 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: there were certainly no sea monsters, but clients could and 172 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: did opt for specially add on so you could pay 173 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: extra for painted cities, for flax and ultimately sea monster 174 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: and and the especially maps. These were generally not the 175 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: ones that you would have on the ship. These would 176 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: be the ones, uh, you know, you might give to 177 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: a king or or or you know, have you know, 178 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: hanging in your your office or whatnot. Yeah, I mean, 179 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: for the most part, medieval maps just didn't have steam 180 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: monsters to pick on them because what I mean essentially 181 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: why because that's going to cost you more money, right, 182 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: And it was much more pragmatic at that time, be 183 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: as you say, from going from a point A to 184 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: point B. But then you see later in the fifteenth century, 185 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: as you say, they became a thing. In fact, you 186 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: mentioned kings. There's a chart maker by the name of 187 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: Francis Picarti in four hundred, who commissioned four really extraordinarily 188 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: resplendent maps to give to four European kings in exchange 189 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: for the right to trade in their countries. So that's 190 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: how valuable these pieces of paper became, because again it 191 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: represented exploration and also as as well as people could 192 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: at that time. Compendium of beasts, you know of this 193 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: sort of like a learned man's way of trying to 194 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: learn about the world via the armchair. Yeah, it becomes 195 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: a kind of a zoological text as well. Now one, 196 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: I really like the idea of the sea monsters as 197 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: an add on, Like imagine way, like, we don't really 198 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 1: draw maps for one another anymore, but can you imagine 199 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, you're asking a friend how to get to 200 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: some way that and you're like, can you draw me 201 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: a map? Oh, and make sure to put a seed 202 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: monster on there. I want to have some monsters on 203 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: that map. Or imagine if when you use Google Maps, 204 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: you could in the same way that you have the 205 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: options to click click on the button and have traffic represented, 206 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: click on the button and have satellite information represented. Why 207 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: is there no monster button? So I can see where 208 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: sea monsters and land monsters might potentially be represented. There 209 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: should be a monster overlay for sure. Um, but let's 210 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: talk about some of these some more of these reasons 211 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: for monsters being depicted. Um. One of the things that 212 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: I think is really interesting is we've already touched on, 213 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: is that you know, the truth is stranger than fiction. 214 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: So you have people who have been out in the 215 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: ocean's fishing for cent ease, and they talk about what 216 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: they have seen. Perhaps they well, I don't know if 217 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: they'd see it at a certain depths that it exists, 218 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: But vampire squid are an amazing that's an amazing creature. 219 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: To behold sea snakes that seems insane, and yet they 220 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: are in the ocean. If you've ever seen a bunch 221 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: of sea snakes congregating on the ocean floor and floating 222 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: there like shafts of wheat, just passively feeding on whatever 223 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: passes by, it is an amazing, incredible image and you 224 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: could not believe it. So it stands to reason that 225 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: if you have this collective of ocean life, that of 226 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: course these these beasts would emerge from from all this 227 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: sort of mythology. Yeah, and as we've still happens today. 228 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: When you encounter you know, you encounter a whale in 229 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: the ocean, it's pretty phenomenal. You encounter a half rotten whale, 230 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: or any kind of partially decayed but of sea lie, 231 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: you're liable to to interpret the original form in a 232 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: different light. We're you know, like, even to this day, 233 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: you'll find pictures of some sort of weird thing washed 234 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: up on a beach and people are like, oh, my goodness, 235 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: this looks like nothing on earth. Clearly it's a sea monster. No, 236 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: it's just a whale. That is a grosser and in 237 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: a little decayed you're seeing more of it's a skeleton 238 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: and less of it's a flesh, and therefore it looks 239 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: like a sleeker, different creature. That's true. And even now 240 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: things are getting reclassified, right because every once in a 241 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: while we find the bones of something. It's like, oh, 242 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: we think that this is a new something, and they're like, no, no, 243 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: this is actually a brachiosaurs. Yeah. Now, um, Now again, 244 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: as we we mentioned sea monsters, of a lot of 245 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: them are going to originate in myth and religious tradition. 246 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: You have Jonah's whale, you have the primordial Leviathan. One 247 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: of the stories that that keeps coming up again and 248 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: again in Van Duser's book is the idea of the 249 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: whale or fish that's so enormous that a ship lands 250 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: at it, and then the sailors get off. They on 251 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: what they think is land. They can't. They set a fire, 252 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: and then when they set the fire, that disturbs the fish, 253 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: and the fish descends back into the ocean and they 254 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: have to scramble to get back on the ship before 255 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: they drown. Now, clearly this never happened um or it's 256 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: it's at least it's at least very difficult to imagine 257 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: a scenario in which this could happen. But it becomes 258 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: such a tale like it captures the imagination, and so 259 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: it comes up again and again on these maps. It's true, 260 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: And you know, their representation on the maps is not 261 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: just a symbolic standing for for man versus nature, but 262 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: is also a way to depict actual geographical points of 263 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 1: interest or even dangerous straits on a map. So there 264 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: is a there's actual pragmatic reason for them to be 265 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: on there. But a lot of these cartographers, though, what 266 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: they were trying to do is they were trying to 267 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: utilize the best information of the time to create a 268 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: map that it's either going to stand out its own 269 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: or it's accompanying some other texts. And so most of 270 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: the time they've never seen these creatures before, but they 271 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: were laboring to create accurate depictions. Uh. In many cases 272 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 1: they continued existing motifs such as the island fish, and 273 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: presume factual depictions of actual life in the oceans. They 274 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: are the hybrids that they ended up drawing. Well, those 275 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: were backed up in the theory of this land water 276 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: duality that we mentioned earlier, and they were able to 277 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: repeat the true aspects of their depictions. Whales are big spouts, 278 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, they spout water and sometimes they damage boats. Um, 279 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: as well as the inaccuracies. Whales have two blowholes, they 280 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: have wolfish faces, and they attack boats. Yeah, it's cool 281 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: because I think about these maps is sort of the 282 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: graphic novel at the time. There again, Yeah, trying to 283 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: record as much scientific information is thought scientific at that time, 284 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: and trying to explain the creatures. Um. But the problem 285 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: is is that you don't get a lot of clear 286 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: perception of these creatures that you see without context. Yeah, 287 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: there's a lot of times these are These are again 288 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: people who are several times removed from any actual observation 289 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: of the creature. Uh, you have in the same way 290 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: that you know. Burno Eccho said, books speak to other books, 291 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: and there's those endless kind versation, particularly among between older manuscripts, 292 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: where this idea flows to this one and picked up 293 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: by this one. It's like that game we all play 294 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: as a kid where you whisper in a circle and telephone. Yeah, telephone. 295 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: It's like a game of telephone with with with texts 296 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: and then with visual representations of the world. You're right, 297 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: and at the end of the telephone conversation you get 298 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: the vakham Marina the sea cow right, because everything gets 299 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: so distorted. Um. I was thinking about the perception and 300 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: context problem in terms of ben Shadduck's article for Salon 301 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: and when she was trying to pin down a nineteenth 302 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: century account of a massive sea serpent, and the fisherman 303 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: had described it as a hundred feet long with an 304 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: interlocking barrel like body and a serpent like face. And 305 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: he kind of kept scratching at this, saying, what I mean, 306 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: these are like hardened fishermen, They're they're all like, you know, 307 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: they've been out there, their experience, and yet there's so 308 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: many of these fishermen who said, we saw something, and 309 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: he wonders what could it be. So he talks to 310 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,359 Speaker 1: um someone who is an expert in leather back turtles. 311 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: Her name is Kara Dodge, and she says that, you know, 312 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: it's probably just that perception problem, because she says that 313 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: even when trying to track leatherback turtles, now they have 314 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: to train fishermen to look for the hump and not 315 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: the fin. And so now they're getting a ton more 316 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: accounts of leatherback turtles as they try to pin their whereabouts. 317 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: But until you give people the context for it or 318 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: the imagery, then it's hard to pin down. By the way, 319 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: the whole leatherback turtle things, he serpent turns out, Ben 320 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: Shottic thinks from his research that it could have just 321 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: been essentially a bunch of leatherback turtles that were bumped 322 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: up against each other and it makes the appearance of 323 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: these humps of serpent. Yeah, because you're saying, if you 324 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: look at videos of leather backs, it's kind of the slimy, 325 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: black uh image that emerges from just under the water. 326 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: And then if you look at their faces, their serpent 327 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: light and they have fangs. So if you solve that 328 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: from a you know, a good distance away, you might 329 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 1: think that it's this hundred foots he serpent coming at you. Now, 330 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: the other thing about that is that narrative might serve 331 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: you well if you decide to make a map to 332 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: dissuade other fishermen from coming to your country and fishing 333 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: your waters. And that's where I think it's fascinating that 334 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: a map from the sixteenth century could have an economic 335 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: function built into it. Yeah, the map in question is 336 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: Alas Magnus is amazing nine map, the Card of Marina, 337 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: which I'll make sure to include this one in the 338 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: gallery that goes with this episode as well, because it's 339 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: it's really the granddaddy of these. I mean, it's a 340 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: marvelous map from a number of different perspectives. He brings 341 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: whimsy to his creations of the monsters, he brings an 342 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: artistry and and just a sheer number of monsters on 343 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: this map is incredible. It's just it's just the world 344 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: is just completely monster haunted and it's beautiful. But there 345 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: is this theory that that he used a lot of 346 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: these monsters to scare away foreign fisherman from Scandinavian waters. Right, 347 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: because if you were to look at this map, you're like, ho, 348 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: get it, there's this dragon sea serpent thing at every turn, 349 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: or this other lobster slash octopus thing that might take 350 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: me down. Yeah, And in the full map included like 351 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: a zoological m sidebar that explained like what some of 352 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: these creatures were supposed to be. And yeah, you look 353 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: at it, and they're they're just all sorts of fantastic 354 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: um whales and whale like creatures spouting up their attacking ships. 355 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: They're pulling ships down, they're flooding them with their with 356 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: their they're spouted water. It's marvelous. Well, one of my 357 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: favorite ones on there is that lobster looking like creature 358 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: that's said to be an octopus, and it's depicted with 359 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: eight legs and it's holding a man in one of 360 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: its claws. Um and and and scale. You can see 361 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: that it's monstrous in in comparison to this man. And 362 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: according to its scientific information, it lives in underwater caves 363 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: and can change its color to match surrounding. Now that's amazing, right, 364 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: because what we're hearing there is that there's some seppal 365 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: pod information, right, Yeah, at the core of this we 366 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: have some some good information. Eight limbs can change its color, 367 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: lives in the rocks underwater. Yeah, we're talking about that 368 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: this perception of chromatoforce right, well at the time they 369 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: weren't called chromatoforce, but this idea that seppal pods can 370 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: change their skin color through pigment cells. So think about 371 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: being on a ship at night and gazing over the 372 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 1: prow and seeing by a luminescent light then emanating from 373 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: a squid and that's from the bacteria that's being housed 374 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,479 Speaker 1: in the organ lights and just what a sight that 375 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: would be that there's this monstrous creature below that has 376 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: a beacon of light coming from it. Yeah, we we 377 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: throw in the narrative of monstrous creatures in the ocean, 378 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: and that makes the thing ginormous. And then if then 379 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: you have somebody attempting to create it on a map, 380 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: and you know, how would you come up with the 381 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: idea of the occupus if you've never seen one? You know, 382 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: like clearly this the artist had had some experience with 383 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 1: crustaceans and so that is the form that the artistic 384 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: representation of the creature took. Yeah, it's it's amazing because 385 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: you do you see the good bits of science and 386 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: they're mixed in with fantastical. It's in a way, it's 387 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: kind of like all of our depictions or a lot 388 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: of our depictions of alien life. There's something humanoid or 389 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: vaguely humanoid about them, you know. That is the form 390 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: that we understand is intelligent life. So that's the form 391 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: we tend to to project in trying to understand, uh, 392 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: mythical or imagine creatures. And it's similar here. The form 393 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: that they understood was the crustaceans, so that's the one 394 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: that was projected. Are you saying that we just need 395 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: to be retrained to look for humps instead of fins 396 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: out there? Uh No, I mean in the intergalactic space. 397 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: I think it just comes down to the fact that 398 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: you have data in your mind that using to understand 399 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: the outer world, and we're never gonna haven't have enough 400 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: data to understand some of the mysteries out there. We're 401 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: gonna be able to sort of partially construct them, which 402 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: has implications for how we perceive our universe. Right, all right, Well, 403 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, 404 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: we're going to run through some more specific examples of 405 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: of how we have interpreted real things as fantastic sea 406 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: monsters and the sort of journey from puremid to truth 407 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: in uh, the walrus and in the whale. All right, 408 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: we're back, and first of all, let's talk a little 409 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: bit about the walrus. Now, the walrus is a great 410 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: example of a creature that that does not exist worldwide. 411 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: It's not something that you would have, It's not a 412 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: form you would have common knowledge off. You know, like 413 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: a fish. You know, fish vary a lot, but there's 414 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: sort of a prototypical fish and uh, and you can 415 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, one culture knows what a fish is, an 416 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 1: other culture knows of the fishes. A walrus is a 417 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: little more exotic, it's a little more uh monstrous. So 418 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: when we when we look to the various interpretations of 419 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: the walrus on these maps, again often depicted by someone 420 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: several times removed from actual observation of the thing itself, 421 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: you see a curious evolution of form. Uh. And there's 422 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: a there's an excellent bit in Van Deser's book where 423 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: he lays out eight different images and you get to 424 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: see how it changes. Um. For instance, you look at 425 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: the fifteen sixteen Carter Marina by Martin Walt Simuler, and 426 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: you'll see what looks like a deformed elephant. Then you 427 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: look at a fifty two copy of Tommy's Geography, and 428 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: this time the same artist, Walt Simuler, depicts a straight 429 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: up elephant. Like the first time it was kind of 430 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: a monstrous elephant. Then he's just like, oh, it's it's 431 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: an elephant, like it has feet, has it's just a 432 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: brown elephant that apparently lives in the water and is 433 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: a walrus. Okay uh. Fast forward to fifteen thirty nine. 434 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: Ish are may on oleg Magnus depicts something that looks 435 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: more like a fishy alligator with tusks. It has kind 436 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: of that wolfish face common to many sea monster depictions, 437 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: and this design pops up in other photographers work as well. 438 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: But then we look at fifteen fifty five and we 439 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: see depictions of the walrus continue to grow more and 440 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: more accurate around her head, flippers instead of feet, tusk 441 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,239 Speaker 1: like a walrus instead of an elephant, and then you're 442 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: going to take on a more appropriate color. So in 443 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: this we see what begins as just uh, you know, 444 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: an attempt to understand an exotic form by using what 445 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: you knew. You knew what an elephant looked like from 446 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: existing you know, well maintained and and and well backed 447 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: up illustrations, and so you apply that form to imagining 448 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: this tusk fat creature that lives in an arctic waters. 449 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: You know. The weird thing about that is um when 450 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: you consider extreme mammals that have gone extinct and you 451 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: turn back the clock, you start to see some of 452 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: these weird the attribute showing up. And I'm thinking about 453 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: the whale with legs that was in the exhibit extreme 454 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: animals here at from Bank, and how that sort of 455 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: plays into this idea of this walrus that's depicted here 456 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: in the book. Now should be noted, even though a 457 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: lot of these photographers were again trying to use the 458 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: best information of the time to depict an accurate vision 459 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: of the world, there was still a lot of uncritical 460 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: copying of sea monsters. For instance, a fifteen fifty eight 461 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: edition of Cornelius enthuses Carta van Us a map of 462 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: northern Europe. It included a fabulous flying turtle. Uh. I mean, 463 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like a gammera creature in a way. 464 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: It's got like it's kind of beaked, uh nose, It's 465 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: got mostly a turtle body around the rest of it, 466 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: except its front legs are like eagle wings. So it's 467 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: a really fabulous looking creature. But here's the thing. It 468 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: turns out it was probably at the logo of the publisher. 469 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: Then that's the only reason it was on the map. 470 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: The publisher's logo was this flying turtle, and then when 471 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,959 Speaker 1: people copied that, they included it as if it was 472 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: supposed to be there, as if it was a depiction 473 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: of the natural world. It would be like if you 474 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: copied a Rand McNally map and you included that Rand 475 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: McNally diamond logo and said it was a continent. You know, right, 476 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: You know, I can't help it thinking. I'm sorry, a 477 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: little bit distracted by the legos chimera sets that have 478 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: come out. Have you seen those of a chimera the 479 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: chimera lego sets where they've got different animals depicted. No, No, 480 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: I haven't seen that. They should take a page from 481 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: these maps, I'm telling you. But that's not to say 482 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: that again that everybody was just copying monsters willing knowing 483 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: there were some very there were some definitely some skeptics 484 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: of the time, and that's always important when you're talking 485 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: about the Middle Ages or Renaissance times, that not everybody 486 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: was just blindly believing everything that came across their play. 487 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: One great example of this, as explained in the Van 488 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: Deuser's book, you had this guy Fromorrow from Morrow lived 489 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: in a fourteen fifty thereabouts when he was doing his thing, 490 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: and he wrote, because there are many cosmographers and most 491 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: learned men who right that in this Africa there are 492 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: human animal monsters, I think it is necessary to give 493 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: my opinion. In all these kingdoms of the Negroes, I 494 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,239 Speaker 1: have never found anyone who could give me information on 495 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: what those men have written. Thus, not knowing anything, I 496 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: cannot bear witness to anything, and I leave research in 497 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: the matter to those who are curious about such things. 498 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: So basically saying, I'm not buying this information that you're 499 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: telling me about what's going on in Africa in terms 500 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: of the strange creatures and the weird people that live there, 501 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: So I'm not going to comment on it, I'm not 502 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: gonna draw it, etcetera. May Yeah, it's a little bit 503 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: of a weak sauce statement because it's like, yeah, I 504 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: don't know, yeah, I suppose that was bold for back 505 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: then though. Yeah. So let's talk about whales, because these 506 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: guys are amazing in terms of the sort of stories 507 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: that were circulated around about them and then how it 508 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: was depicted and the images of them. And I was 509 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: thinking about this because last night I was looking at 510 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: pictures of humpback whales and um, I was looking other 511 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: blue holes as you do, as I do, and I 512 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: couldn't help but just be really sort of um taken back, 513 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: because as I looked at those pictures, it started to 514 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: look like a giant human snout stuck on the back 515 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: of a whale. And if you look at pictures close 516 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: up of a blowhole, you'll see that there's like a 517 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: little bridge between what looks like nostrils. Um. And I thought, well, 518 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: if that were to be swimming, you know, parallel to 519 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: your ship, and you happen to look at that, wouldn't 520 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: you sort of misunderstand that as a distortion or um, 521 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: you know, as as a sort of monstrosity of a 522 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: human form in a way that it looked like, oh, 523 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: this must be a monster because there's their giant snout, 524 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: And how then would that be depicted? How would how 525 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: would you would you describe that to somebody and they 526 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: had to draw it having not seen it, and you 527 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: weren't there to say no, a little more little a 528 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: little closer to the animals back now, a little more 529 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: like a human nose, you know, if you weren't there 530 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: to actually get that kind of feedback, how would they 531 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: draw it? So? And if yeah, water is is just 532 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: spouting out of it right then then sort of like 533 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: what do you mean water spouts out of it? Then 534 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: clearly there must be some sort of tube system here. So, 535 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: as we've mentioned previously, the whale is a pretty classic 536 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: sea monster if people have been seeing them for ages, 537 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: even before we knew what to call it. We had 538 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: the Leviathan, we had the giant fish that swallowed Jonah. 539 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: You had the island fish that we talked about with 540 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: the people land on it, and many of the older 541 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,360 Speaker 1: whales of there especially, they were these wolf faced beasts 542 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: with long fish tails. They were spouters. But it took 543 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: a while to work out exactly what all that spouting 544 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: was about. Pristance. You look at one one map free 545 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: you see this very wolfish actually furry sea monster known 546 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: as a spouter, attacking a ship by vomiting water upon 547 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: its deck out of its mouth. So here's a great 548 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: example of someone probably said, oh, there are these whales, 549 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: and they spout water, they spit up water, and so 550 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: then the artist depiction of that is a whale rolling 551 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: up to this ship, opening its mouth and just vomiting 552 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: water on it and like and just completely drowning the ship. Okay, 553 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: so there's there's that. Uh. And then if you look 554 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: at Ole Magnus's carda Marna again, you see that the 555 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: whales here spout water from two blow holes to Shrek 556 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: like tube like horns that emerge from the top of 557 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: the creature. And this is uh. This is a classic 558 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: attribute of of of Magnus Magnus's maps and his depictions 559 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: of sea monsters. And the crazy thing is that it 560 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: matches up so well with what you were just saying 561 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: about the huntback whales real blow holes. If someone were 562 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: to say, oh, well, they have these two holes on 563 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,239 Speaker 1: their back, and there's the water, and then if if 564 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: it's passing through you know, down the telephone game of 565 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: illustration and manuscript and matt making and that comes to 566 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: somebody and they're like, Okay, well, what does an animal 567 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: like that look like if it has two holes on 568 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: its back to split water out up? And then it 569 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: becomes this idea of these two tubes sticking out of 570 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: the creature's back, right, and you can kind of see 571 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: again like how this m this weirdness occurs and the depictions, 572 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: in fact, it's very steampunk looking. These a lot of these. Yeah, 573 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: there's a certain you can't help but interpret them as 574 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: kind of smoke stacks, so they have this kind of 575 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: biomechanical vibe to them. Yeah. Now I can't help but 576 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: be reminded of this class that I took in college, 577 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: and it was a psychology class having to do with sexuality, 578 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: and one of the things we had to do is 579 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: we had to pair up and one of us had 580 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: to look at a depiction of a sexual act and 581 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: the other person had to draw it as described by 582 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: the person looking at it. So one of one of 583 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: the things I remember is there was a Victorian woman 584 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: on a bike that was a bike that was made 585 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: of a penis. Let's just say that penis parts, which 586 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: is kind of a difficult thing to try to Nobody 587 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: knows what a bike is, But then you have to 588 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: describe a bike that's made out of a penis. It 589 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: might be difficult to make them out of penises. Well, 590 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: you know, this was some out of someone's imagination, and 591 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: so the other person had to try to describe what 592 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: they are looking at. Well, you could go across the 593 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: class and you could see all sorts of variations of 594 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: what this penis bike look like. It made me think, well, 595 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: this is very much the same thing that's going on 596 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: in these depictions of maps, minus the penis. Yeah. Another 597 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: great example of this comes from Pierre des Selaer's World 598 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: Map of fifty six, which has a fairly realistic depiction 599 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: of whaler's harpooning a whale. But it's it's a little serpentine. 600 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: It's flippers are a bit like wings, and most remarkably 601 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: of all, it has a gigantic mustache. It looks kind 602 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: of like the luck dragons from the Never New Story. 603 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: It's a gentleman whale. Yeah, so so why does the 604 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: whale have the mustache? Why is there suddenly? You know, 605 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: because they're trying to clearly, it's an attempted depiction of 606 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: an actual cultural tradition. Of whaling, of hunting the whales, 607 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: catching the whales, harvesting the whales, and a lot of 608 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: these accounts included, you know, some some very specific accounts 609 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: of what then the whale parts are used for and 610 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: how it's used, you know, culturally and economically. But it 611 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: has this mustache. Well, according to Van Duser, the mustache 612 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: is probably the artist's attempt to portray bailen, which the 613 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: whaling basques commonly referred to as barbaus dave balina, or 614 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: the beards of the whale. So again you have to 615 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: set you're trying to make the best use of the 616 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: information that's provided to you, and then someone talks about 617 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: the beard of the whale. Are you talking about the 618 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: filtering system, which of course is very internal and it's 619 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: certainly not a mustache. But if you describe it as 620 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: the beards of the whale, and then someone down the 621 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: chain has to draw the beards of the whale, this 622 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: is what you get, a whale with a giant must 623 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: I love it. I was just like to imagine I'm 624 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: sitting around, you know, at some pubs saying it's like 625 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: when you get you know, that crumbs in your mustache. 626 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: It silts it out, you know, and it's easy for 627 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: us as modern commentators to to have a lot of 628 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: fun with this. But but just think about how to day, 629 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: like all the information in the world is instantly at 630 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: your fingertips. If you if you've even halfway know what 631 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: you're doing on the Internet, you can fact check something 632 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: pretty quickly. But still, think of the emails you get 633 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: in your inbox just spouting complete nonsense that no one 634 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: or the questions that come up one book where you're 635 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: you're like, really, why are you asking all of us 636 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: when you could have just googled that and found out 637 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: immediately if you knew what sources to look for. Now, 638 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: I'll take that that same mindset, or even some variation 639 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: of it, and put it in an age without Internet, 640 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: where you only have books speaking to books over the 641 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: course of decades and centuries, and this is the kind 642 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: of closed system of information that you get exactly. Now. 643 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: That's not to say we didn't have accurate depictions of whales. 644 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: So as early as fourteen thirteen we see a realistic 645 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: illustration of a whale hunted by whalers on Mercedes Valestis 646 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: nautical chart. And finally, in an interesting closure of these 647 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: two trends of the fantastic and the realistic. We see 648 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: the Nova Frontier map, which features an old fashioned sea 649 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: monster with double spouts and wolfish heads, you know, very 650 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: much in Magnus's style. But then you also see an 651 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: incredibly realistic portrayal of way whalers harvesting a whale. So 652 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: you see the incorporation of the older idea of the 653 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: sea monster as a as just a fantastic decorative note, 654 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: while you also see this this very accurate depiction of 655 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: whales and whaling. So you see the two coming together, 656 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: and you see the idea of the old sea monster 657 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: becoming more and more just a relic, more and more 658 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: just a decoration that eventually fades away. Well or it 659 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: becomes a tattoo, right because it still has power as 660 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: a symbol, because you found that awesome tattoo with someone 661 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,879 Speaker 1: had one of old magnus h shrek Horn sea monsters. Yeah, 662 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: and you know even some of the more classical tattoos 663 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: that show all sorts of sea creatures, um, you know, 664 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: taking out a boat or just being ferocious. It kind 665 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: of this sort of um talisman against your trade. If 666 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 1: you are someone who is you know a marine merchant 667 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: or just who works in the industry, industry being in 668 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: of the ocean, the oceans. So in a sense, you 669 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: can look at sea monsters on maps as a story 670 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: of man versus ocean over the course of centuries. We 671 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: see the gradual journey from the ocean as a place 672 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 1: of chaos and certain death to a thing conquered by man. 673 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: Think back to those early depictions in the o t 674 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: world maps. So over again, the outer ocean is teaming 675 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: with monsters or as in a map of Moundy from 676 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: eleven eighty, most of the map is outer ocean as 677 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: a tail eating serpent or or a boris. And then 678 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: you also see various titan sized sea monsters out there 679 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: as well. Uh. And then we but we gradually learned 680 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,720 Speaker 1: to combat the ocean, and we gradually learned to combat 681 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: these uh, these monsters of the mind um in the 682 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 1: Gulf of Cattle in Atlas of thirteen seventy five, we 683 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: see a depiction of pearl divers utilizing spells to keep 684 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,320 Speaker 1: sea monsters at bay. Fifteen forty five, there's a map 685 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: where we see men aboard a ship driving spears into 686 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:48,320 Speaker 1: an attacking beaked tentacle horror, and in the Carton Marina 687 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: we see men blowing trumpets stared off one of these 688 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: spouting whales. And then most remarkably fifteen sixteen, on Martin 689 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: Walt Sigmueller's Carton Marina, we see King man Ale of 690 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: Portual writing a sea monster off the tip of Africa 691 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: to symbolize Portugal's mastery of the oceans. And from there, 692 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: you know, again, sea monsters become more and more decoration 693 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: and we start adding more and more ships into our 694 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: artistic representation of the ocean and more technology technology. Yeah, 695 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: and they kind of go by the wayside because by 696 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: the time that the camera has been invented is starting 697 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: to document nature, then you you know, have a moving 698 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: away of this idea of these really monstrous creatures, and 699 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: then the maps begin to rot. We only retain the 700 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: you know, a very slim number of them, and they 701 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: just become creatures of fantasy, and then we tend to 702 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: forget that at times they were wrapped up in symbolism, 703 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: that they had economic purpose, that they that they were 704 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: attempts to understand the zoology of the ocean. Yeah, and 705 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of lead out of this episode 706 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: with a passage that Shaddick actually brings up in his article. 707 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: It's from Moby Dick, and it's when Ishmael climbs up 708 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: the rigging to take his watch, and he's sitting on 709 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: the top sailed yard and is hanging his leg, is 710 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: kind of hanging lazily over by the sail, and he's 711 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: reflecting on all the other young men who have taken 712 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: watch from those heights. And here it is, says luld In, 713 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: such an opium like listlessness, of vacant, unconscious reverie. Is 714 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: this absent minded youth, by the blending cadence of waves 715 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: and thoughts, that at last he loses his identity, takes 716 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: the mystic ocean at his feet for the visible image 717 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: of that deep blue, bottomless soul pervading mankind in nature, 718 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: And every strange, half seeing, gliding, beautiful thing that eludes him, 719 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:43,320 Speaker 1: every dimly discovered uprising fin of some indiscernible form, seems 720 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: to him the embodiment of those elusive thoughts that only 721 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: people the soul by continually flitting through it. Here you go, 722 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 1: there you go, man in nature as one awesome well, 723 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: you know. On that note, let's call the robot over 724 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 1: and let's see if we have any listener. Maybe. All right, 725 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: we have one for you today. This one is from 726 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: Erin Erin Wright sentences, Hi, Robert and Julie. I was 727 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: just listening to the Circus Freaks episode and it brought 728 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: me back to my college days. My nursing school was 729 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 1: part of a university with a music theater school. It's 730 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,280 Speaker 1: a great combination. You bring those two energies together. Uh. 731 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: One day those worlds collided. A visiting pyrotechnic stage professional 732 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: came to a small gathering my friends were having. We 733 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: learned to swallow fire. The trick was using kerosene, like 734 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: you mentioned in the fire blowing. It's not toxic and 735 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: it burns just warmer than the human mouth. I won't 736 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: give the particulars, but it was an amazing trick I 737 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,399 Speaker 1: haven't done since. My husband shakes his head in shame 738 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: and I tell people I can do this, and my 739 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: father in law wants me to do this at his 740 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: Viking funeral. We're thinking cremated ashes in a small wooden 741 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,879 Speaker 1: boat in a small pond, casting the whole thing into 742 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: a ball of fury with flaming eros. Thank you so 743 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,760 Speaker 1: much for your mind blowing podcast. I'm I am embarking 744 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 1: on a new career. I listened to your podcast while 745 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: baking tasty muffins for a farmer's market here in town 746 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: with the hopes of expanding to a small cafe. Your podcast, 747 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: as well as your siblings on the Stuff Network, gives 748 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,760 Speaker 1: me hours of entertainment while baking and boxing my goods. 749 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: I've also started having a quiz from my Facebook followers 750 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 1: using the knowledge I've gained. Again, thanks sincerely, uh Aaron 751 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: the Main Street Muffin Factory. All right, well that was 752 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: very entertaining a Viking funeral. Yeah, I mean that's a 753 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: way to go out. That's a good way to go 754 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: out on an episode about sea monsters too. So hey, 755 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: would you like to learn more? Would you like to 756 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,879 Speaker 1: see more? Again? Head by stuff to Blow your mind 757 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: dot com After you listen to this. While you're listening whichever, 758 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 1: find the gallery that we've put together with pictures of 759 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: some of these monsters we're talking about. I'll definitely be 760 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: including a lot of stuff from Oliga. Magnus is fantastic 761 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: map and you can look at those all you want 762 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,919 Speaker 1: and pull up a big screen version of the map 763 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,839 Speaker 1: as well. So if you want to just really pour 764 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: over it, and you can also let us know what 765 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: you think about all this. You can find us on Facebook, 766 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: you can find us on Tumbler. You can find us 767 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: on Twitter. On Twitter, we are Below the Mind and 768 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from from you about your thoughts 769 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: on sea monsters if you've if you've looked at them 770 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: a lot, what are some of your favorites are? What 771 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: are some of your favorite real life monsters in the ocean. 772 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 1: We have a seamonster tattoo. Yes, if you have a 773 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: seamonster tattoo, we would love to see it if it 774 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 1: is appropriate for us to see it. Um. You can 775 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: also check us out on stuff to Blow your Mind 776 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 1: on YouTube, where we look at the camera and commit 777 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: acts of word salad. Yeah, Mind Stuff Show, Mind Stuff Show. 778 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: And you can also drop us a line at Below 779 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: the Mind at Discovery dot com for more on this 780 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics because it how stuff works 781 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:44,840 Speaker 1: dot com