1 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, a production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. Guess what gave? 3 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 2: What's that Mango? 4 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: So in nineteen seventy two, a sixty five year old 5 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: Belgian walks into Andy Warhol's factory in New York City. 6 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 2: Okay, this sounds like the setup for a really bad joke. 7 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: I know, I promise it is not. It was actually 8 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: a historic meeting of two art world greats. So we've 9 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: got Andy Warhol and Air Jay, the creator of Tintin. 10 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: And while he's best known for his comic books starring 11 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: the boy Reporter of tinton and his faithful dog Snowy, 12 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: air Jay was also a highly knowledgeable art enthusiast and 13 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: modern art collector, and so when he traveled to the 14 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: US meeting, Warhol was actually on his bucket list. And 15 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: it turns out they had a ton in common. They 16 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: both did commercial illustrations early in their careers, and they 17 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: both kept plugging away until they achieved global success. 18 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 2: That's interesting, but honestly, I'm just enjoying the picturing this, 19 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 2: like old Belgian guy hanging out in the factory with Warhol. 20 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, apparently the two artists hit it off because 21 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy nine, air Jay asked Warhol to paint 22 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: his portrait, which he did, making a set of four 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: paintings similar as the ones you know you've seen of 24 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe, and Warhol later explained that the admiration actually 25 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: went both ways. He said, quote, air Jay has influenced 26 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: my work in the same way as Walt Disney. For me, 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: Airjay was more than a comic strip artist. 28 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 2: Honestly, I had no idea. I never would have guessed 29 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: Andy Warhol was a Tintin fan. 30 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he is not alone. The books are incredibly popular, 31 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: especially outside the US, so worldwide. Tintin books or albums 32 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: as those fans like to call them, have sold more 33 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: than two hundred and seventy million copies and have been 34 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: translated into more than one hundred languages, and even today, 35 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: between one point five to two million Tintin books are 36 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: sold per year. 37 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: We throw around a lot of numbers on the show, 38 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: but two million books. That's insane, it really is. 39 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: But like so many books from the nineteen thirties and forties, 40 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: not everything has aged well. And Airje himself has this 41 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: really fascinating and complicated biography. It spans everything from war 42 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: to boy Scouts, to cultural stereotypes to overcoming cultural stereotypes, 43 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: and also Will diffit to strange nightmares Steven Spielberg, and 44 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: of course that eternal question do comic books turn kids 45 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: into juvenile? The linquits, which I'm sure you have some 46 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: thoughts on. So there is so much to cover that 47 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: we've actually turned the story of Tintin into a two parter, 48 00:02:51,280 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: So let's dive in. Hey there, podcast listener as well, 49 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: and a part time genius, I'm monga shittig and because 50 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: Will is traveling this week, I'm here with my fellow 51 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: Tintin fan, Gabe Lucier. And over there in the booth 52 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: is uh gay? Where's Dylan? Uh? 53 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: Hang on, there's a There's a note taped under the microphone. 54 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: It says, gone adventuring with my faithful dog, love Dylan. 55 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: I'm not sure who's recording this episode, but I always 56 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: love Dylan's enthusiasm. 57 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: I guess he heard we were doing an episode on 58 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: Tintin and decided to, you know, really lean into it. 59 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: Dylan is always leaning in, as you know, speaking of which, 60 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: this is one of those episodes that we've had on 61 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 2: our Brainstorm list for a long time, and it's finally here, 62 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: and it's all because of you, honestly, because you were 63 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: obsessed with Tintin as a kid, Is that right. 64 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, as a kid, we didn't have many relatives 65 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: in the States, and so to see my grandparents, my mom, 66 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: my sister, and I would go to India anytime we 67 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: could afford it. And it was always during the summer, 68 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: and that was super fun. But if you go to 69 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: India in the summer, you quickly realized that that is 70 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: the monsoon season there, and it's also when your cousins 71 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: returned to school, and so you're kind of stuck inside 72 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: all day it's raining, and so, like, I ended up 73 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: getting good at things that are indoor games, like cards 74 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: or karm, which is like a cool game you play 75 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: with your fingers. I used to play karam and scrabble 76 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: with my grandparents, and I would wait for my cousins 77 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: to come home and I would read comic books and 78 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: it was amazing because like, actually, you would love this. 79 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: My cousin had like early Captain Americas and Spider Man's. 80 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: I'm sure there were reprints or whatever, but it was 81 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: so fun to read and we'd read mystery books and 82 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: then I discovered Tintin and it kind of played to 83 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: everything I loved, right, Like I love dogs, I love journalism, 84 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: I love traveling, I like stories about spies and intrigue, 85 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: like learning about the world, and it all shows up 86 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: in those panels, right. It was just amazing that you 87 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: could open these albums and be transported. And it's also 88 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: one of the things like not that many kids in 89 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: the States knew about tinton Like I think there were 90 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: some cartoons that appeared on Nickelodeon or something at one point, 91 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: but most of my friends growing up in Delaware had 92 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: no idea what I was talking about. And so, actually, 93 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: I know you're a huge comics enthusiast. I'm curious, did 94 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: you ever read Tintin? 95 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 2: Not As a kid, my first introduction was that cartoon 96 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: you mentioned, The Adventures of Tintin. It aired on HBO 97 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 2: and then Nickelodeon back in the early nineties. And the 98 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: funny thing is my family didn't have cable, so it 99 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 2: was something I only got to watch when we went 100 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 2: on vacation, but that just made it more special. Like 101 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: I remember this one trip to the beach where my 102 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 2: mom got super annoyed with me because I didn't want 103 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: to go outside. I just wanted to stay in the 104 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 2: hotel room and watch Tintin. And I did eventually circle 105 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 2: back to the books in college, you know, and I 106 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: was really happy to see that the show was actually, 107 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 2: you know, incredibly faithful to the books. But hearing you 108 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 2: talk about Tintin, it's so clear that these books really 109 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 2: pulled you into their world in a special way and 110 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: became part of your world too, And it takes a 111 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: pretty special artist to do that. And in fact, he's 112 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: so special that he went by just one name. 113 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: I know. It is so rockstar, right, like very Madonna, 114 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: very Prince very Air, Jay. 115 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: Very Erga. Yes, but I did some research into his 116 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: early years so I can tell you that, unlike Madonna 117 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: and Prince Air, Jay was not born Aja. He was 118 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: born George Remi in nineteen oh seven in Brussels, and 119 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 2: the pen name he chose Jay is actually his initials 120 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: GR for George Remi in reverse RG and RG pronounced 121 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: in French is J. I'm sure sounds so much cooler 122 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: than Rgie. But I, you know, just think about it 123 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 2: for my own name. I'm wondering about switching to the 124 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: nome to plume. Hm, what do you think you'd probably 125 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: get mistaken for a chain of Swedish fast fashion stores. 126 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 2: Familiar if it makes you feel better, it wouldn't work 127 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: for me either, so gl backwards LG. That's an appliance. 128 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: So we'll just have to stick with our own name. 129 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: So tell me about young Airj's life then. 130 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 2: Well, surprisingly enough, he did not come from an artistic family. 131 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: His mom stayed home to take care of him and 132 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 2: his younger brother Paul. His dad worked in a candy factory, 133 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: and the family was solidly lower middle class. That said, 134 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: there's actually a bit of lore around Airj's grandfather. So's 135 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: dad had an identical twin brother, and growing up, the 136 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: twins never knew who their father was. And that's because apparently, 137 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 2: as a young single woman, Airjay's grandmother worked as a 138 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 2: maid at a countess's chateau. Then suddenly one day she 139 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: was pregnant with twin boys. So a lot of people, 140 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: including at one point Aga himself, believed she may have 141 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: had an affair with someone higher up, you know, someone 142 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 2: really wealthy or maybe even a noble. 143 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: So is there any evidence to support that or is 144 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: this just kind of like wishful thinking that he's royal. 145 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 2: Well, there is one interesting clue. After the twins were born, 146 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: the countess more or less treated them as her own 147 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: and she let the family live at the chateau until 148 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 2: the boys were fourteen, after which she kicked them out. 149 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: So she might have felt some sort of responsibility to them, yeah, 150 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 1: or you. 151 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 2: Know, maybe she was just a decent person and felt 152 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: bad for a single mom of twins. But the family 153 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: legend was that the twins' father, who would be air 154 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 2: Jay's grandfather, was actually Belgium's King Leopold the Second, who 155 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 2: ruled the country from eighteen thirty five to nineteen oh nine. 156 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: Now that's not substantiated, but it was something the family 157 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 2: liked to toss around in private. And the other rumor 158 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: is that the Countess's husband, the count, you know, he 159 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 2: may have been the father. 160 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: So I guess potentially a mysterious and royal background, which 161 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: I guess a little DNA testing could actually figure out today. 162 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: But between the royal rumors, a father who worked in 163 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: a literal candy factory, it sounds like a really exciting life. 164 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: So to tell me a little bit about Airjay's childhood 165 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: was it fun. 166 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 2: Actually the opposite. Airja described his childhood. Yeah, Airja described 167 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: his childhood as quote gray and uneventful, and one of 168 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: his biographers, Pierre Assoline wrote, quote everything was colorless, scentless, 169 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 2: tasteless and of no interest. In the Remi home. There 170 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: was no one to admire, no books to read, no 171 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: play to attend, no discussions. And you know that is 172 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: a little bit of an exaggeration because Airje did have 173 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 2: books and movies that he loved as a kid, and 174 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: his parents did encourage his drawing, but overall art and 175 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 2: culture wasn't really a focus in his family. 176 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it sounds like not a childhood he sort 177 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: of was nostalgic for. So did he always have an 178 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: interest in illustration or was this something that came later 179 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: in life. 180 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: No, he showed an aptitude in it from an early age. 181 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: His school notebooks were filled with sketches, and when he 182 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 2: got a bit older, like high school age, his parents 183 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: enrolled him in art classes, though apparently he only lasted 184 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 2: a day before dropping out because the focus was on 185 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 2: technical skills like drawing Greek columns, and you know, he 186 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: had zero interest in that. 187 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: That is funny that he loves to draw, but he 188 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: won't like sit around to drug column Oh. 189 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, not columns. You got to draw the line somewhere. 190 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: Well. I do know that in addition to drawing, there 191 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: was another excitement in his life, and that is the 192 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: Boy Scouts. Airjay joined them when he was about eleven 193 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: years old, and he really connected the Scouts. He described 194 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: it as the first color he remembers about his childhood, 195 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: which I guess goes back to that gray comment you mentioned. 196 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: And the Boy Scouts opened his eyes to this bigger world. 197 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: And for example, during the summers, they'd go to camps 198 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: around western Europe where they do things like hike two 199 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: hundred miles across the Pyrenees, and Airjay loved it so 200 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: much that he eventually became an Eagle Scout and a 201 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: troop leader, and he remained a Scout until he was 202 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: in his twenties. But the Scouts gave him something else, 203 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: even more important to this story. They gave him his 204 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: very first platform for his art. He published his first 205 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: illustrations in a monthly Boy Scout magazine when he was 206 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: around fifteen years old, and a few years later, in 207 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty six, the magazine published Airjay's first serialized comic strip. 208 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: It was called The Adventures of Totor CP of the 209 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: June Bugs. Totor is a Belgian boy scout and in 210 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: the comic, he travels to Texas to visit his aunt 211 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: and his uncle, and when he is there, he's captured 212 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: by angry Native Americans who he outwits. He also outwits 213 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: bandits and he finds buried treasure, and so there is 214 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: a lot of excitement. 215 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: Got it. So sounds like maybe Totor was kind of 216 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: the prototype for Tintin. 217 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: That is an excellent guest, Gabe, and I'm going to 218 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,719 Speaker 1: tell you all about how Airjay's passion for art and 219 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: scouting turned into the Tintin we know today. But first 220 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. Welcome back to Part time Genius. 221 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 1: We're talking all things Tintin. So let me set the scene, Gabe. 222 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: It is nineteen twenties Belgium. Airj is scouting and trying 223 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 1: to figure out what to do with his life. By 224 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: this time, he's graduated from high school and he's working 225 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: in the subscriptions department at this newspaper called Levutm Siecla, 226 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: which means the twentieth century. And this was a Catholic 227 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: newspaper run by father Norbert Wala. It was a right 228 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: wing paper, to put it mildly, and father Wala actually 229 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: kept a photo of Mussolini on his desk if you 230 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: want to know his politics. 231 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: Yi, yeah, that's never a good sign. But okay, from 232 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 2: what I've read though, you know, that was kind of 233 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: the norm in Belgium after World War One. 234 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, Belgium was a very conservative and very Catholic country. 235 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: One of Airj's biographers said that right wing politics were 236 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: an almost inevitable byproduct of that time. So by working there, 237 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: Airja wasn't exactly taking a political stance, at least explicitly. 238 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: It was more this job that he was excited to 239 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: have and it was better than working at his father's store. 240 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: And by nineteen twenty eight, a couple of years after 241 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: Totor appears in the Boy Scott magazine, Airja had managed 242 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: to make his way out of the subscription department and 243 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: into illustrations. Mostly that meant drawing women's clothes and things 244 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: like that for the magazine, but he was making a living, 245 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: and more importantly, Father Walla had taken a real liking 246 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: to him, so he asked Erj to illustrate the new 247 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: weekly children's supplement that he's planning to. 248 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 2: Start, which I'm sure he just jumped at right. 249 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: Definitely, because in November of that year the Extraordinary Adventures 250 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: of Flup Nnesse who set a Hits newspaper stands. 251 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 2: That is some truly masterful French. I have to say, 252 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 2: I know. 253 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: I feel so embarrass every time we do any French 254 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: or any other language, unless it's kunkany, I'm not going 255 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: to speak it properly. And I also love the word 256 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: flop in that cartoon. That sounds really grad But the 257 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: comic was actually universally considered a dud. Part of the 258 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: problem is that it was written by the paper sports 259 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: reporter and he wasn't much of a writer. The story 260 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: is super simple, it is plotting. It's about three kids, 261 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: an inflatable rubber pig and their accidental trip to Africa, 262 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: which is you know, overwhelming with stereotypes and of course 263 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: caricatures as well. Now Urja did the illustrations, but they 264 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: aren't particularly inspired either. One of the issues was that 265 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: in Belgium at the time and most of Europe, cartoons 266 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: didn't use speech bubbles. This was actually an American innovation. 267 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: So to tell the story, there's been a lot of 268 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: text as captions and then drawings to accompany it. 269 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 2: So none of this boat's well for Flupin Friends long term. 270 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, flup and Friends would have been a better name 271 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: for that cartoon, but you are right. The strip ends 272 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: after ten weeks. But this is where air Jay's fortunes turn. 273 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: So Father Waile asked him to draw a new comic 274 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: featuring a more totor like adolescent boy along with his dog. 275 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: And he wants something wholesome, right, something that portrays good 276 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: Catholic virtues, and he wants it with American speech bubbles. 277 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: So air Jay is excited and he gets to work 278 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: right away, and in early nineteen twenty nine the first 279 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: actual Tintin strips come out, and it's the beginning of 280 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: what would become Tintin in the Land of the Soviets. 281 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: Aha, our hero is born. And I imagine the choice 282 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: of Russia for that adventure like that had to be purposeful, 283 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 2: right it was. 284 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: It was also Father Wala's idea. Father Walla wanted to 285 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: show young Belgian readers basically how bad communism was. So 286 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: Tintin has all these like very explicitly anti communist lines 287 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: where he says things like those factories are running a 288 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: bit too well, let's see, and then he looks under 289 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: it and it's like great snakes just stage effects. They're 290 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: simply burning bundles of straw to make smoke come out 291 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: of these false chimneys. Right, So it's things like that, 292 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: and he's basically calling the Soviets poor idiots. He thinks 293 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: that the Soviets are fooling the people, and he kind 294 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: of paints this as this red paradise that is almost 295 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz like. 296 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: So not particularly new once propagandas as far as that. 297 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: Goes, yeah, and it didn't really have to be right, Like, 298 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,959 Speaker 1: these sentiments didn't diverge much from what mainstream Belgian Catholics 299 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: were thinking at the time. So, according to one of 300 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: Airj's biographers, this is Harry Thompson, a lot of Belgians 301 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: believe that Russians were quote grinning devils with knives between 302 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: their teeth butchered small children for kicks, which is obviously 303 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: so sad and so ridiculous. But since air Ja hadn't 304 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: been to Russia, the strip really relies on some of 305 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: the more sensational accounts of Russia that's coming to him, 306 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: as well as Joilet's own anti communist views. 307 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 2: Well, you know, despite its not so subtle anti communist messaging, 308 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 2: the book does have a couple great things going for it. 309 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 2: So for starters, it's actually the only time in all 310 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 2: of the Tintin Adventures where the readers see him working 311 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 2: as a journalist writing an article. 312 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: I actually never noticed that. Like, as much as I 313 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: loved you did, I never realized he wasn't actually writing 314 00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: that much. 315 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 2: It does come up nearly as much as you'd think, 316 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 2: but you know, the story is also where we first 317 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: meet Snowy, Tintin's trusty dog and fellow adventurer, And most excitingly, 318 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 2: it's where Tintin's trademark hair shape came to be, you know, 319 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 2: the little swirl or squirrel on his forehead. Gotta have 320 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: the swirl. But when the comic starts, Tintin actually has 321 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: flat combed hair. But there's a scene early on where 322 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 2: he's riding in a convertible and air draws his hair 323 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,719 Speaker 2: sticking up to show the speed of the car, and 324 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 2: it just stayed like that forever. Like I guess the 325 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 2: wind was just that strong. 326 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: I like it, but I also like that in the 327 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: first book it isn't just his physical appearance that kind 328 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: of gets sorted right, Like his whole personality is there 329 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: from the very start. Tintin is depicted as this honest, 330 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: this intrepid kid reporter, and he is spreading Western values 331 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: and ideas around the world. 332 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm glad you bring that up, because, you know, 333 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: before we get too far into things, I want to 334 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 2: talk a little about Tintin himself. A lot of the 335 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 2: characterization that you're talking about, it was likely inspired by 336 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 2: Air's time in The Boy Scouts, which would make sense 337 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 2: Tintin is basically a boy Scout, but he's also an 338 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 2: iconic character visually because of that tuft of red hair 339 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 2: and his outfit blue sweater, white collar shirt, brown pants, 340 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 2: and the question of who inspired Tintin, both in his 341 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 2: look and his lifestyle. Yeah, that's one that Tintinologists, which yes, 342 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 2: are people who study Tintin. It's one they've been, you know, 343 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 2: trying to figure out basically since Tintin first appeared. 344 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: I love Tintinologists, Like it's not something that was offered 345 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: as a major at my college. But is there an 346 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: answer do they figure out who Tintin is based on? 347 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 2: Well, no, but there are lots of guesses. For example, 348 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 2: one idea is that he's based off of Airjay's younger 349 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: brother Paul, who apparently looked enough like Tintin, especially with 350 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 2: the hair style, that when he was an adult and 351 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 2: in the army, fellow soldiers call called him Major Tintin. 352 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 2: In fact, Paul Paul got pretty sick of the nickname. 353 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 2: He eventually changed his hair style because he was so 354 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: tired of the comparison. 355 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, so brother Paul is one of the possibilities. 356 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: Who are the other contenders? 357 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 2: Another is a Danish boy named pell Hooled. In nineteen 358 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: twenty eight, when Pella was fifteen, he entered a newspaper 359 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 2: competition celebrating the Jules Verne centennial, and the paper was 360 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 2: looking for a teenage boy to reenact the journey of 361 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 2: around the world in eighty days. The rules were that 362 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 2: he'd have forty six days to get himself around the 363 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 2: world without using airplanes, and he would need to do 364 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: it alone anyway. Pele, who was also a boy scout, 365 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 2: won the competition, and his travels were all over the 366 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 2: news after. 367 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: He made it home. 368 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 2: He wrote a book about it, which was published in 369 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty nine, which you'll note is the same year 370 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 2: the first Tintin strips came out. And it's been confirmed 371 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 2: that erge Red Pele's book, so's you know, some people 372 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 2: think he may have modeled Tintin after him got it. 373 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: So we've got the brother with the hairstyle of this 374 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: young kid who's traveling around the world. Anyone else in 375 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: this mix? 376 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, My favorite contender is this French journalist named Robert six. 377 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 2: He was a war correspondent and a motorcycle enthusiast. Apparently 378 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 2: he both looked and dressed like Tintin and had a 379 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 2: best friend named Milu, which is, you know, phonetically the 380 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 2: name of Tintin's dog, Snowy in French. And if that 381 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 2: weren't enough, Tintin's travels also seemed to mirror Robert's. His 382 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 2: first reporting mission, it was to Moscow. 383 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: So we've got the dog, we've got the motorcycle, we've 384 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: got the mission to Moscow. All this is starting to 385 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: come together. 386 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then Robert goes to the Congo and the 387 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 2: US after that, which is where Tintin goes next. 388 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, where Tintin goes it's pretty alling. 389 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 2: There's enough there. Even the air Jay Foundation acknowledges the 390 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: similarities between Tintin and Robert. They even admit that some 391 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 2: of Airja's drawings in the books seem to have been 392 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 2: directly inspired by the photographs Robert took personally, though, I 393 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 2: think the most likely answer is that it, you know, 394 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 2: may have been a mix of all of these guys. 395 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,479 Speaker 2: But for what it's worth, whenever he was asked about it, 396 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: air Jay would simply answer, Tintin Simoa or Tintin is me. 397 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. I'm sure it's all the parts 398 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: of his personality he loved most right, inspired realities others. 399 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: So why don't we get back to the story. So 400 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: Tintin's starting to catch on in Belgium where we leave 401 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: off and this successful comic album Tintin in the Land 402 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: of the Soviets, Father Wailea is excited to keep the 403 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: ball rolling. He has his strips published in book form 404 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty and air Jay starts on the next installment, 405 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: which is Tintin in the Congo, which was originally serialized 406 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: in the paper. And this is between nineteen thirty and 407 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one, and just like with the Land of 408 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: the Soviets, it was Father Wailea who suggested the new 409 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: book's location, which is the Congo, and he chose it 410 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 1: because there was this hyper conservative colonial mindset in Belgium 411 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: at the time, which Juaala had fully bought into. 412 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 2: Of course he did. And of course this is the famous, 413 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 2: most problematic of the Tintin albums. 414 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, this is the one you could not get 415 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: in India when I was growing up. And we'll get 416 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: into that a little bit. But the result is a 417 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: book that's full of Tintin quote civilizing the natives who 418 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: are portrayed as these super cringy caricatures. They worshiped Tintin 419 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: as he educates them on how wonderful Belgium's colonial system is. 420 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 2: It's you know, it's it's really bad. Yeah, And I 421 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 2: do think it's probably helpful at this point to remind 422 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 2: folks what kind of relationship Belgium had with the Congo. 423 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 2: Belgium was an especially violent colonial power, particularly under Leopold 424 00:23:59,560 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: the Second. 425 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: Yes, Leopold the Second, who is possibly but probably not 426 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: air Jay's grandfather, is believed to be responsible for the 427 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: deaths of millions and millions of Africans, and this is 428 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: through brutal force, labor, famine. This wasn't something that was 429 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: all that well understood in Belgium at the time, like 430 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: most Belgians who weren't really paying attention to what was 431 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: happening in Africa, didn't know the magnitude of the destruction there. 432 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: And it's honestly still a pass that Belgium is reckoning 433 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: with anyway. So Leopold the Second passes away. In nineteen 434 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: oh nine, his nephew Albert the First becomes king, and 435 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: right around that time the Congo becomes an official colony 436 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: of Belgium known as the Belgian Congo. The congleates were 437 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: forced to work as indentured servants on plantations and minds, 438 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: and the Belgian authorities' attitudes towards the Congolese people reflected 439 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: this common conservative European belief at the time of needing 440 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: to quote civilize Africa, right, it's like the white man's 441 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: burden essentially, and they treated Africans as if they were 442 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: chill children who needed to be taught how to live 443 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: and airj put out Tintin in the Congo. Right when 444 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: all of this was happening. 445 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: So Belgian readers they weren't like offended by this at all. 446 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: No, in fact, it was the opposite. It was a 447 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: huge success. And to celebrate the strip's conclusion, Father While 448 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: even organized this event a real life Tintin after his 449 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: return from Africa. 450 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 2: What does that even mean? 451 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: Though? So the paper, the paper had actually tried something 452 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: like this before when Tintin had returned from USSR, and 453 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: that event had gone so well that they decided to 454 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: try it again. And so the just as they dress 455 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: up a little boy to play Tintin, uh, they've got 456 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: a little white dog to play Snowy. And then the 457 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: actor would arrive via train in the main Brussel station 458 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: where this real life crowd celebrates his arrival. Right, and 459 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: for this particular event, they also had ten Congolese men 460 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: accompanying him and a bunch of circus animals they'd rented, 461 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: I guess to make it seem more African. And it 462 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: worked because five thousand people showed up to this train 463 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: station to watch Tintin come home. So it was clearly 464 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: a success right from the start. 465 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just such a shame, because you know, these 466 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 2: are great stories in so many ways, but obviously some 467 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 2: of the early depictions, they are just really rough, really problematic. 468 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not the type of thing you pick up 469 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: on as a kid, right, But as you get older 470 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: you really see this stuff. 471 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if the harmful stereotypes don't refer to you 472 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 2: or people who look like you. Is a kid, it's 473 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 2: easy to overlook that kind of thing, but once you 474 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 2: see it, oh man, it is impossible to ignore. Which 475 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 2: makes me wonder if Airja ever grappled with any of 476 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 2: this himself, Like, do you know if he ever acknowledged 477 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 2: how insensitive these books were. 478 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: He does to a certain extent, and that's actually part 479 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: of why I like Ja. He does tend to grow 480 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: over the years, but he never outright apologizes or anything. 481 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: He did want to say about the early books that quote, 482 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: they are not very intelligent, I know, and they do 483 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 1: me no honor. So he's clearly acknowledging it. And later 484 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: he says these stories were created quote in the spirit 485 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: of the pure paternalism which reigned at the time in Belgium. 486 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to excuse myself. I admit that my 487 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: early books were typical of the Belgium bourgeois mentality. Of 488 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: the time and even later he doesn't want Tinton in 489 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 1: the Land of the Soviets to be republished, and he 490 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: redraws Tinton in the Congo in the nineteen forties. He 491 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: makes some changes, like turning one of the school lessons 492 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: Tinton gives into a math lesson instead of one about 493 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: Belgian superiority. But you know, the caricatures and the drawings 494 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: don't really change that much. 495 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 2: So basically his opinion was that it was almost impossible 496 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 2: for a Belgian man from his background at that time 497 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 2: to avoid absorbing, you know, this kind of perspective about 498 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 2: other races and cultures. 499 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. Though the public response is of course different now, 500 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: right like today when people criticize specific Tinton books like 501 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: you and I were saying, Tinton in the Congo is 502 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: the one that everyone points to. In two thousand and seven, 503 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: for example, the UK's Commission for Racial Equality recommended that 504 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: not be sold due to its quote hideous racial prejudice, 505 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: and there have been attempts to ban it or limit 506 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: its availability in the US, Sweden and Belgium. Like I 507 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: was saying, in India, you couldn't find it in libraries. 508 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: It was very difficult to find and as an American publisher, 509 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: Lil Brown hasn't printed it for quite a while. 510 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 2: It's interesting because if Airja had stuck to creating Tintin 511 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 2: in the Belgian mentality of the time, he might have 512 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 2: continued drawing xenophobic, racist comics for the rest of his life. 513 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 2: But that's not at all what happened. Instead, he had 514 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 2: this life changing encounter that transformed the way he thought 515 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 2: about other cultures and about Tintin's place in the world. 516 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 2: It's a fascinating story and we're going to tell you 517 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 2: all about it right after this quick break. 518 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part Time Genius is two part exploration 519 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: of air Ja and Tintin and Gabe. When we left off, 520 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: you were just about to tell us, but I believe 521 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: is the redeeming part of this story about how air 522 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: Jay's life changed forever and for the better. 523 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 2: So have that, yes, yes, finally we get here. So 524 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: by the early nineteen thirties, Tintin has been around for 525 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 2: a couple of years. He's getting more popular, and he's 526 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 2: traveling the world. But I am talking about Tintin here 527 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 2: Airja himself. He is not traveling the world. He's just 528 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 2: sitting at his desk at a conservative Catholic newspaper, so 529 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 2: a lot of the cultural details he'd include came from 530 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: secondary sources, full of their own assumptions and prejudices, which 531 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 2: he would then pairrot. But as many scholars have pointed out, 532 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 2: there was a real change in that approach for the 533 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: fifth Tintin installment, The Blue Lotus, and it happened almost 534 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 2: by chance. When the newspaper announced that Tintin's next journey 535 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 2: would take place in China, a Belgian priest who worked 536 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 2: with Chinese student at a local university got in touch 537 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 2: with air Ja. The priest was like, Hey, my students 538 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 2: are big fans of Tintin, but they'll be pretty upset 539 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 2: if China and Chinese characters get portrayed as stereotypes, which 540 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: you are known to do. 541 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: And knowing this Tintin universe, there had been some Chinese 542 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: characters in earlier at tinton books, and obviously they were 543 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: not portrade very fairly. 544 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: That's right, yes, But to air Jay's credit, he was 545 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 2: really cool about the whole thing. He asked the priest, okay, 546 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 2: can you find someone who could advise me on China? 547 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 2: So the priest introduced him to a man named Jiang 548 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: chong Ren, who was around the same age as air 549 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 2: Je and a student at Brussels Royal Academy of Fine Arts. 550 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 2: So for about a year the two men met each 551 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 2: Sunday to talk and Jiong explained Chinese current affairs and 552 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 2: taught Airja about calligraphy. He also introduced him to concepts 553 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 2: like Buddhism and Taoism, which Aja took a real interest in, 554 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 2: especially later in his life. And so you know, an 555 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 2: actual friendship started to emerge from this. In fact, Xiang 556 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 2: later said that they were like brothers. 557 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I love The Blue Loadus. There's so many 558 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: great details in that book, like it takes place mainly 559 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: in Shanghai. There are a lot of scenes that feature 560 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: Chinese calligraphy in the background. And I don't understand Chinese, 561 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: just like I don't pronounce French. Well, but it looked 562 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: really beautiful. 563 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 2: That's so funny because that writing that you're talking about, 564 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: it was actually done by Jiang. The calligraphy. Yeah, And 565 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 2: according to an article about The Blue Lotus on the 566 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 2: website The World of Chinese, the book includes quotes from 567 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 2: the Old Book of Tong praising the virtues of an 568 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 2: ancient doctor there were also posters on the street with 569 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 2: messages like abolish unfair treaties and down with imperialism. And 570 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 2: that's because the story is set around the time when 571 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 2: Japan invaded Manchuria. 572 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: I like that Tintin, or rather air Jay just kind 573 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: of like absorbs the influences of the people around him, right, 574 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: like father Wallay's politics feed it, and like Jiang saw 575 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: influence seems to be there. But but how did this 576 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: friend of his influence the storytelling? 577 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 2: Well, he encouraged airj to use, you know, real events 578 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 2: to inspire Tintin's adventures. So in the story, Tintin defends 579 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 2: the Chinese against the Japanese, but also against American businessmen 580 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 2: who are shown as ignorant and racist and aggressive. And 581 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 2: none of this was really happening in other Belgian comic 582 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: strips at the time. And by the way, if the 583 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 2: name of the arts student Jiang chong Ren sounds familiar 584 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 2: to you and any other Tintin readers out there listening, 585 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 2: it's because it sounds a lot like the name that 586 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 2: appears in the Blue Lotus, Chong chong Chen. So he's 587 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 2: the young Chinese orphan that sounds a lot lighter. 588 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I figured that part. 589 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, yeah. He's the young Chinese orphan that 590 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 2: Tintin saves from drowning towards the end of the book 591 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 2: and later becomes friends with. Their friendship in the book 592 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 2: actually echoes the men's real life relationship. So right after 593 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 2: Tintin and Chong meet in the story, they discuss the 594 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: misconceptions Europeans have of Chinese people and the stereotypes that 595 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 2: their cultures have of one another, and they acknowledge that 596 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 2: all of these are incorrect. And so while Airja is 597 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 2: still trying to educate the reader in future books, it's 598 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: just in a different, more open minded way. For example, 599 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 2: there's a scene towards the end where the British detectives 600 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 2: Thompson and Thompson trying to disguise themselves by wearing what 601 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 2: they believe is typical Chinese clothing, but in reality it's 602 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 2: this outdated stereotype of what Westerners think Chinese people look like. 603 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 2: So the Chinese characters see the detectives and they just 604 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 2: start laughing, And this time, you know, the reader is 605 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 2: in on the joke. I love that. 606 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: So I read that the Blueloadus is also where Erge 607 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: learned to go deeper for force photographs for different locations, 608 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: and so before he'd been using whatever generic images were 609 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: being used in popular media. But all of a sudden, 610 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: now there's more nuance, more accuracy for these details, and 611 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: that didn't really exist in Tintin's previous adventures. 612 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 2: Yeah you can really tell too, like you can see it. 613 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 2: Which is not to say that the book is perfect. 614 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 2: This is nineteen thirty four, and there is still a 615 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 2: paternalistic attitude towards the Chinese. 616 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the villains right, like the villains and the 617 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: Blue Lotus are the imperialist drug dealing Japanese. So unsurprisingly 618 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,280 Speaker 1: the Japanese were not fans of the book. They wanted 619 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: it benn which you can see why. 620 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, But but it was a hid in China, right, 621 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 2: So Airje was even invited by the First Lady to 622 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 2: visit the country. And perhaps more importantly, it's set a 623 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 2: new standard for how Erje approached Tintin's adventures and depictions 624 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 2: of places far from Belgium, you know, with deeper research 625 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 2: and a wider range of content imporiary sources. Getting these 626 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 2: details right mattered to him. But that said, there were 627 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 2: still issues in later books. For example, in Tintin and 628 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 2: the Broken Ear, which came out right after The Blue Lotus, 629 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 2: Er Jay didn't know anyone who spoke South American indigenous languages, 630 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 2: so he just made one up and later got a 631 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 2: lot of criticism for having some pretty overtly racist details 632 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 2: and characters in nineteen forty one's The Shooting Star. He 633 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 2: did later revise that book, but again he didn't really apologize. 634 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 2: He said, basically, this was just reflecting the politics and 635 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 2: style of the time. Deal with it. 636 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously, meeting Jong doesn't erase all his prejudices and biases, 637 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: but there is definitely a change in his approach and 638 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 1: certainly this attempt to capture some truth about a location. 639 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: So now we're going to jump ahead to the late 640 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties and Air Jay is going through a tough 641 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: personal time. He is not a great husband, so his 642 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: first marriage apart after about a year, and he's having 643 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: these regular nightmares where everything in it turns white. He 644 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: in one of these dreams, he is climbing the stairs 645 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: of a tower and he looks down and it's just 646 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: a bunch of bones and skulls and demons, all white stuff, 647 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: like that, and it's really disconcerting. So Airj goes to 648 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: a Youngian psycho analyst, and this is in Switzerland, an 649 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: actual student of Carl Jung, And he's like, I've been 650 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: having these awful dreams, Doc, what should I do? 651 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 2: I'm picture I got to stop you on picturing. This 652 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 2: psychoanalyst he's smoking a pipe, right, and there's like a 653 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,399 Speaker 2: view of Lake Zurich in the background. I'm just trying 654 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 2: to set the scene. 655 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there is no photographic evidence of this meeting, 656 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 1: so let's say that's where it occurs. But then the 657 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: doctor tells air Ja, this is very simple. These dreams 658 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: are all metaphors for being professionally and emotionally exhausted, and 659 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: the only thing you can do to stop them is 660 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: to stop drawing. 661 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 2: Stop drawing, telling the artist to stop drawing, like forever, 662 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 2: just stop more or less. 663 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: So he tells Airj he can't work and recover from 664 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: this personal turmoil at the same time, so he's got 665 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: to pick one. And Airj is super shaken by this, right, 666 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: and he does consider it because in some ways it's appealing. 667 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: He loves Tinton, but Tinton has also become a burden 668 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,720 Speaker 1: and he's already been considering taking up abstract art instead. 669 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: You find us with a lot of artists, right, like 670 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: Bill Waterson had to take a spell. Conan Doyle retired 671 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: from homes for a bit before returning. Anyway, he thinks 672 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: about it and then he says, you know what, I 673 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: don't really like this advice, so maybe I should just 674 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: lean into the white instead. And so, with his mind 675 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: made up, he goes to work. And he'd rent a 676 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: ton of books on Tibet, mostly by Western explorers and 677 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: people going through the Himalias and the snow capped mountains there. 678 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 1: He'd also read at least one book by this native 679 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: Tibetan and so he's really inspired, and he studies maps 680 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: and photographs. He searches for photos and Belgian Alpine society, 681 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: and he was so committed to getting the details right. 682 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 1: Then one photo which he found in a book, it 683 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: only showed the lower half of a policeman in New Delhi, 684 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: and he actually writes the author asking for the original 685 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: photo so you can see the whole uniform, because he 686 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: really wants to depict it fully. 687 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 2: You that's awesome, Yeah, that is some serious commitment. 688 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,439 Speaker 1: It's incredible when you see the details and you notice 689 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 1: what's actually drawn and incorporated into the story. There's a 690 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: bit in this cafe that I remember and like it's 691 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 1: a cafe in Nepal and the way the waiters stressed, 692 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,359 Speaker 1: and then I saw a photo of the time that 693 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,479 Speaker 1: he'd used. It's remarkable anyway. What's also really interesting about 694 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,479 Speaker 1: Tinton and Tibet is that the plot is different from 695 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,720 Speaker 1: all the other Tintin books. It's not really about capturing 696 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: a villain, and there's no car chases or classic Tintin 697 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: tropes like that. Instead, the book is about Tinton's quest 698 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: to find his friend Chong. 699 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 2: Blue Lotus Chong the same gun, yeah, the same one. 700 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: And I actually think that proves how much the real 701 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: Jong meant to j right like that he brings them 702 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: back into the stories during this what feels like a 703 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: pretty difficult period of his life. And in Tintin Inti 704 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: that everyone thinks Chong has died in a plane crash, 705 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: but Tintin refuses to believe it, and so he risks 706 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 1: his life and his limbs to save him. And also 707 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: there's a Yetti in this book, this appearance, which is 708 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 1: just super fun and sweet and. 709 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, any points for YETI. 710 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,320 Speaker 1: Anyway said that it was his favorite of the albums 711 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: he ever drew, and he calls it quote the story 712 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: of a friendship. Ah. 713 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something really poetic in this. You know that 714 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 2: the lessons he learned from his real friend Jong helped him, 715 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 2: you know, make his favorite book. 716 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. It's also sort of like a perfect place 717 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: to end today's episode. But we are not done with 718 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: Tintin yet, because this is just part one of the story. 719 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 2: That's right, So be sure to tune back in to 720 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 2: hear part two, where we'll talk about Jay's behavior during 721 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 2: World War Two, comic bands in America, and serious long 722 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 2: lost play that one of our good friends actually just rediscovered. 723 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,959 Speaker 1: It is an amazing story, and in the meantime, we'd 724 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: love to hear what you think about Tinton or anything else. 725 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: Email us at high Geniuses at gmail dot com. That's 726 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: Hi Geniuses at gmail dot com, or give us a 727 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 1: call on a hotline that is three oh two four 728 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: oh five five nine two five. I love that it's 729 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: a three or two areo code for all my Delawareans. 730 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: And you can also find us on Instagram and Blue Sky. 731 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: No matter how you get in touch, you know we'd 732 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: love hearing from you. This episode was written by the 733 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,359 Speaker 1: always adventurous Mursa Brown. Thank you, Marissa. It was also 734 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: edited by Gabe and from Dylan, Mary, Gabe, Will and myself. 735 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Part Time Genius is 736 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This show is hosted 737 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: by Will Pearson and me Mongshatikler and researched by our 738 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: goodpal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's episode was engineered and produced 739 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: by the wonderful Dylan Fagan, with support from Tyler Klang. 740 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 1: The show is executive produced for iHeart by Katrina Norvel 741 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: and Ali Perry, with social media support from Sasha Gay, 742 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: trustee Dara Potts and Vine Shorey. For more podcasts from 743 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 744 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.