WEBVTT - Trump Federal Election Trial Date Set 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.640 Donald Trump started fundraising off his mugshot less than an 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:17.080 hour after it was released in the Georgia racketeering trial 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:21.360 last Thursday, and once again slammed the prosecution. 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.800 To what has taken place here is the travesty of justice. 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.800 We did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong, and everybody 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:28.240 knows it. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.240 The former president is also criticizing the decision of DC 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.920 federal Judge Tanya Chuckkin to set a date of March 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.040 fourth for the federal trial over his alleged efforts to 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:43.600 overturn the twenty twenty election. That's one day before Super Tuesday. 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.880 Trump called her a biased Trump hating judge on social media. 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.440 Trump's team had asked for a trial date two years later, 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.400 in twenty twenty six, but prosecutors argued a speedy trial 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.560 is needed to prevent the jury pool from being tainted. 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.760 Joining me is former federal prosecutor Michael Zelden. Judge Tanya 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.280 Chutkin said that Trump, like any defendant, will have to 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.920 make the trial date work regardless of his schedule. There's 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:14.160 a societal interest to a speedy trial. Should a judge 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.200 take into account the fact that he is campaigning for 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.839 president and she's scheduling a trial date in the midst 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:22.080 of it. 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.920 To a certain extent, I think yes, But overridingly I 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.720 think no. That is to say, I think there are 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:34.160 circumstances by which people should be allowed to have timeouts 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.400 in the course of a trial or in the run 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.520 up to the start of a trial, but not in 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.200 the nature of the types of timeouts that Trump is 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.240 asking for. For example, whether there be a trial in 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:50.880 January or March of this coming year, or twenty twenty six, 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.960 as Trump askedport. I think in those broad terms she 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.440 has to say no, I'm sorry, your day job just 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.560 doesn't permit it. But if there's a short time for 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.920 extenuating circumstances, and I think she should be mindful of it. 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:05.960 And I think he actually is trying to do that 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.840 when she moved the trial from January to March, saying, look, 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:11.960 it's complicated, you've got a lot of stuff going on. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.120 I'm going to give you two extra months from what 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.760 the prosecutor wants. And I think that's what should happen 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:17.320 in this case. 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.959 The defense is arguing that they can't go to trial 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:25.640 in four months given them millions of documents. The prosecution says, 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.920 you know, there aren't that many key documents, and we've 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.880 created a file of three hundred documents. Quote, it's essentially 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.720 a roadmap to our case. Can the defense rely on 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.760 what the prosecution says is a roadmap to their case? 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.880 No, they have to make their own roadmaps, and they 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.480 have to be able to have enough time to call 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:48.960 through the documents to make sure that they can create 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.320 their own roadmaps. But in this case, much of the 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.800 documents that form the basis of the case, the heart 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.480 of the case, come from the defendant himself. They are 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:04.640 his texts or emails from his associates, or documents that 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:09.000 they've produced in respect to subpoenas. So it's not like 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:13.000 these are documents that they are lacking familiarity with, and 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:15.720 so I think that it is not unreasonable for them 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:17.760 to have a trial date in March. I think that 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.280 if they acquire the resources to look through this, then 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:22.760 they should be able to the One thing that we 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:24.360 have to keep in mind is one someump had a 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:25.919 lawyer worked on this case for a year and a 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.440 half or so and just fired him and hired a 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:31.720 new lawyer. The new lawyer says, I don't have the 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:35.920 resources to really call through all this discovery. Well, Trump 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.480 is purportedly a billionaire, and if he doesn't have the 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:43.280 resources necessary, then Laurel the attorney, he has to say 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.720 with client, we have a trial day coming up. I 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.400 need more resources, and it should be under dependent and 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.800 obligation to make sure that his team is properly resourced, 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.760 because they can't claim lack of resources and get a 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:58.200 trial delayed, so they can't use it as a delayed tactic. 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.600 But to the sent that they really have honest need 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.640 for additional time, then I think they can petition the 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.520 court periodically for that. But I think she's given him 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.400 a good enough leeway to get this done. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:13.440 So prosecutors said the DC federal trial would take four 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.679 to six weeks, so that would push past the March 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.000 twenty fifth date of the New York trial. But Judge 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.599 Chutkins said that she had a phone call with Judge Murchhon, 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.520 who's the trial judge for the New York trial. So 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:29.440 do you think that they worked it out? 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.520 Yeah? And I think that Brad the district attorney in 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.159 New York, has signaled that he's willing to delay his 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.280 trial to let the federal case go forward. So yes, 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.640 I think that New York will take a second feat 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:45.640 behind the January sixth trial, and that won't create a conflict. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.640 What about the Atlanta trial if it starts on October 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:53.000 twenty third, In other words, if three defendants go on 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.400 trial and it's not Trump, I mean, is there any 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.240 you know, excuse for him there? 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.000 I don't think so. If there is speedy trial with 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.479 Sidney Powell and Cheeseborough or anybody else who wants to 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.479 join it, and the judge severs those defendants from the 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.680 remainder who want to delay the trial, then I think 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.760 the trial would proceed against those who have asserted their 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.200 rights to a speedy trial, and Trump or any other 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:21.479 defendant can sit in and watch that trial and get 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.160 a preview of how the government's case will come in, 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.839 and there's an advantage to them in that. Of course, 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.640 there's a disadvantage, which is that those three people out 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.440 the speedy trial most likely are going to blame Trump 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:35.520 and say that they were just following orders and it 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.120 was he who was the culprit, and he won't be 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.720 in the courtroom to defend himself. So there's a un 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:43.159 in the angle of this thing. But no, that would 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.880 not be a basis in my view, for that trial 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.400 to be delayed because Trump says, I can't be there 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:49.640 and therefore I'm going to be. 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.520 Prejudiced before we go back to the DC federal trial. 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:58.640 So it's Cheeseborough who has been characterized as the architect 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:03.320 of the facal scheme, and Sidney Powell and johnny'sman all 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.359 lawyers want a speedy trial. Why do you think they 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:07.600 want a speedy trial. 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:13.440 Well, I think that they think that one it's in 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.279 their best interest to just get this over with. But two, 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.240 I think more importantly, I think there's an advantage to 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.240 somebody like Cheesboro or Sidney Powell, who are lawyers who 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.960 will be able to say in a separate trial of 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.760 their own. All we did was provide legal advice, and 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.239 to the extent that there were actions that were taken 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:38.080 that contravened the law, that was not our intention. Our 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.200 intention was to say, here are our theories. Even if 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.760 there was a hail mary component to it, it was 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.080 still non frivolous legal advice, and we would rather be 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.440 two lawyers sitting in the courtroom pointing a finger at 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:55.119 Donald Trump as a person who misinterpreted what they said 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:58.520 and acted in an illegal way, and not have him 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:02.160 there to say to the contrary, you guys were the architects. 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:04.799 I think it allows for them to put in their 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.880 defense of just you know, advising their client without anyone 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.160 pointing back to fingers and say to them, no, no, no, 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.720 you were co conspirators in a criminal trial. So I 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.920 think separating them from the others, probably the lawyer's view, 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:20.080 is in their better interest in a more streamlined prosecution. 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.520 Now we'll go back to the DC Court. John Loro, 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.920 who is Trump's attorney, said he's going to file several 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:31.640 motions and one which I think everyone expected, arguing that 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.560 Trump was immune to the charges given that the indictment 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:39.240 covers the period when he was president. Is that a 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:40.280 good argument. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:42.800 Yeah, it's a good argument in the sense that it's 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:47.320 not been decided by the Supreme Court. Whether it's an 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.160 argument that will prevail is a different question. And there 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:54.400 are lots of cases that are sort of dancing around 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.559 this point. Trump versus Vand is one of them. Murder 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.560 that's the Supreme Court case that was just in twenty 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:05.440 twenty when Trump said he should be immune from a 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.679 grand jury subpoena for his tax records, and the court 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.880 said that though the president enjoys no absolute immunity from 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.320 state criminal subpoenas, and they made the private papers available 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.600 to the prosecutors, so said in that context no immunity. 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:25.720 Then you had Nixon versus Fitzgerald, where Nixon claimed immunity 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.800 and the court said, no, he's not immune from civil lawsuits. 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.840 And you had PAULA Jones similarly. So there are a 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:35.400 lot of cases out there which sort of narrow the 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:40.080 circumstances under which immunity applies, But there's nothing directly on 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.520 points as to whether or not in the context of 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.960 a criminal case against the former president he has immunity. 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.640 I think the question will arise similar to the way 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:52.960 it arose yesterday in the Mark Meadows case for removal 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:57.080 to federal court, which was were the actions under inquiry 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:02.600 undertaken in the official capacity of the officeholder or the 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.160 case of Meadows, the chief of staff, And if they 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:08.720 were undertaken in his official capacity as president or as 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:10.960 an official capacity of the case of staff, then it 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:13.240 makes it a very close questions to whether or not 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:17.120 immunity and in the case of Meadows, removal applies. So 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.439 he is absolutely right to file the motion, and it's 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.040 a good motion to file. I just don't know, because 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.880 there's not been a decision directly on point how it 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:30.400 will be decided. A more important question perhaps is, say 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.400 the court, here's the motion that dismissed the case for immunity, 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:35.360 and the court says, you know what, I don't think 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.720 so I don't think you were acting in your official capacity. 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.880 If that is a decision that is made on a 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:46.000 legal question, then it is immediately appealable. If the factual question, 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.120 you have to wait till after the trial. So there's 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.640 another whole question of if they're denied their emotion for immunity, 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.280 can they immediately appeal it to the Court of Appeals 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.079 and into the Supreme Court, which, if they can, means 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.240 this case is not going to trial for two years. 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.600 He said he'll ask the judge to pause the criminal 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.400 trial until the immunity issue is fully resolved. But is 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:08.760 this judge likely to do that. 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:12.120 No, the judge doesn't seem to have any indication that 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.320 Kiefi's will pause it. But that's not to say that 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:21.160 if they take appeal of the order denying removal or 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.760 once they get the most dismissed denying immunity, whether they 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.640 have a right to immediately appeal it or not. That 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.280 to me also is an unsettled question, and they will 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.040 ask the Quarter of Appeals to take an immediate appeal 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.400 from it, which if they accept it, will delay the trial. 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:40.760 If they don't accept it, the trial will go forward, 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.480 and then after the trial they'll file a motion for 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:48.120 a new trial on the ground that the immunity decision 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.760 was wrong and they should have had immunity. 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.400 Laura also said he's going to make a selective prosecution 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:59.000 motion that the indictment was brought as retaliation for the 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:03.680 federal investigation of Joe Biden's son Hunter Biden, which began 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.680 during Trump's administration. He said he'd used this as a 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:08.520 political prosecution. 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.160 Dead on arrival. I think I don't believe that that 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:15.959 is viable. I think his most viable motions are motions 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:21.800 to dismiss because of immunity, and then defenses at trial, 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.760 which are I lack criminal intent and I was acting 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.520 on the advice of counsel. I think that's what this 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:29.480 trial is about. 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:34.319 Laura sometimes took an aggressive tone, and the judge had 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:38.000 to caution him twice to turn down the temperature. Do 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.680 you think his tone was for the media or was 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:44.400 he just impassioned. I mean, a seasoned trial lawyer shouldn't 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.080 lose his cool, should he. 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.280 No, And Laua has a good reputation from president mind 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:52.400 who practice in the courts in Florida where Laurel practices. 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.920 They say he's a smart guy and a good lawyer. 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.640 I don't know whether he was posturing for his client. 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.200 That's one of the problems that you often have with 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:02.640 a client that's the belligerent, that you feel like you 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.800 have to be belligerent too. I was surprised to read 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.559 about the tone he took, and I was also surprised 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.480 to hear him say sort of cavalierly or threateningly. Let 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.760 me tell you this, judge right now, if you make 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:17.760 us go to trial, I will not be able to 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.680 be effective in my assistance of counsel. So like threatening 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.720 her to say, if you make us go to trial, 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.040 get ready for an appeal if we lose on effective 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.520 assistance to council graud. I just don't think that's a 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:32.320 good approach to this court or any court to be 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:33.520 that belligerent. 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.280 Also, it appeared to upset Judge Chuck Kid that he 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:41.960 had cited Powell versus Alabama on nineteen thirty two Supreme 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.920 Court decision that reversed the convictions of the Scottsboro Boys, 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.439 nine young black men who were falsely accused of raping 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.000 a white woman. He had cited it in his brief, 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.920 and the judge said the cases were profoundly different at 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.480 their core. I mean, why side that case? 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.199 Stuttering because I can't understand it. The scots Boys, as 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.480 you said, falsely accused of rape, were brought to trial 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:10.679 within six days, I believe, of their indictment in a 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.839 racially charged environment, as was often the case in those 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:19.520 types of kangaroo court white supremacy based prosecution. To say 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:24.160 that that is any way analogous, this is I think 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.040 an insult to the court, especially an African American woman, 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:32.240 to say that somehow my client, Donald Trump analogizes to 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.840 the Scottsborough Boys. You know, I just don't get it. 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.439 I just don't get it, because actually they're an apposite. 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.640 You know, six days versus almost a year of preparation 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:47.600 and white racially charged prosecution and early neutral prosecutions. In 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.840 this case, I just there was another example of bad 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:52.640 decision making by this lawyer. 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.840 It's stunning to me that a trialery with his experience, would, 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:00.320 you know, take this attitude with the trial judge so 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.880 early on, this combative, aggressive tone. 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.360 I don't know. Maybe he thinks that somehow he is 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:11.760 going to bully her. If he is of that mind, 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.000 he doesn't know this judge, I mean, this judge comes 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.679 out of the Public Defender Service in the disc of Columbia, 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.200 which is perhaps the best public defender service in the 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.120 United States. These lawyers who I've worked with when I 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.760 was a prettyman fellow in the Sure Court of Disco 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.800 of Columbia. We work side by side on cases together. 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.400 These are among the best lawyers in the country who 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.320 are used to very hard fights. If he thinks he's 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.360 going to come into her court from Tampa, Florida with 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.520 bravado and try to sort of roll her in some way, 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:43.600 he needs to go back to Florida. 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.560 Let's switch to Mark Meadows, which I mean was a 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.800 busy day yesterday. So Meadows fought testifying to the January 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.000 Sixth Committee and to the DC Federal Court. Now he's 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:58.360 testifying to save himself. How risky is it for him 0:14:58.400 --> 0:14:59.360 to take the stand? 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:04.320 Well, I think that he really didn't have a choice 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:09.320 because he has the burden of proving that which is 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.160 required for removal, that he was a federal employee, that 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.680 he was acting the scope of his employment, and that 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:17.480 he has a colorable defense. You weren't going to hear 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:21.320 from mc mulvaney or any of the other Trump chiefs 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.920 of staff to say, you know, yes, this is what 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.320 chiefs of staff for Trump to do. There was no 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.720 one who could help him meet his burden actually other 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.200 than himself, And so I think George to Wilker, who 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.480 was a friend and a good lawyer, felt that getting 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:40.360 this case removed is Menows's best chance to prevail on 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:43.040 the merriage, and they took the chance to put him 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:44.680 on the stand because I think they were going to 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.520 lose without him. I said earlier there was a hail 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:53.000 mary sort of legal analysis from the Cheeseborough group, but 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.880 I think this is in some sense was a similar fourth 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.080 down and twenty yards to go type of pass, and 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.600 they just went foot. I don't know that they connected. 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.960 I think that the judge was very skeptical that that 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.080 which Meadow says was in the scope of his federal employment, 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:13.160 like calling Astenberger or visiting the site of the audit, 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.440 was that which a federal employee can do, especially when 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:22.040 the Hatchat prohibits federal employees from getting involved in political campaign. 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.480 So I think he's not going to win. But I 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:28.640 think that Williger thought that this was an important gamble 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:29.680 to take, and he took it. 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.200 There were several times when he said that he couldn't 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:37.000 recall the details of events in late twenty twenty and 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.200 early twenty twenty one, and you know, the judge also 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:43.240 pressed him at some points to be more specific or 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.360 to actually answer the questions. And it seemed as if 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.960 there were a lot of holes in his testimony. 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.320 For sure. And when he said, I'm the president's alter 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.200 ego on his right hand, I am the person who 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.400 is the gatekeeper. I know essentially everything that there is 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.080 to know, because that's my job, and then says, oh, 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:05.600 I didn't realize that there were going to be lawyers 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.399 on the telephone call to Georgia and that this was 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.480 about the election interference losses to have Oh, I didn't 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.280 realize that we were suing. The campaign was suing in missions. 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.840 It doesn't strike me that you can read those things 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.800 side by side and not say, oh, really, you're the 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:21.840 alter ego, you're the right hand man, you know everything 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:25.399 that's going on. But on these two crucial events that 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.280 you are named in this diamond, you say, oops, I 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.719 didn't know that. I think the judge will be very 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.119 skeptical about it. So I think that it was just 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.159 the gamble that they thought they needed to detect. But 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.800 I don't think that Meadows helped himself a lot. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.600 And also was it a two part gamble, because if 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.480 the judge says this was in the scope of his 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:51.000 official duties and transfers the case to federal court, then 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.440 the next move he'll make is to make a claim 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:54.080 of immunity. 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:58.520 Correct exactly. So if you get a trial judge who says, yes, 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.120 you were acting in the scope of your and therefore 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:05.840 this is removable, then that same analysis that got him 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.120 the removal will be the same analysis that they'll argue 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.640 gets him immunity. So it was a predicate for that, 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.359 not that you needed to do it that way, but 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.600 the trial judge ruling on the question of in the 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:22.520 scope of employment in the removal case, you know, sort 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:26.520 of would help that decision for immunity when the most 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:28.760 of dismissed immunity grounds is filed. 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:31.480 Finally, so, what do you think the chances are that 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.600 one of these criminal cases will be tried and completed 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:36.480 before the election. 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:41.760 Well, I think, honestly, the case that should be completed 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.040 and tried before the election is the Marlogo case. That's 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:49.080 the most straightforward case. There's some national security documents issues 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.720 that need to be worked out, but it's a pretty 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.240 narrow set of questions that have to be answered. So 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:59.080 if Eileen Cannon, you know, sort of moves this case along, 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.200 that case really should be able to go forward before 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:07.919 the election. As to the January sixth or the Bolton 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.159 County case, it really depends on what happens in the 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:14.000 pre trial motion states. If all these motions are filed 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.719 and the defendants lose and they're not immediately appealable, then 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.560 I think we'll get a trial also in one of 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.000 both of those cases before the election. But there are 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:29.080 so many if but if there's this case filed, what 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.000 if there's that boy, So you can't really say, but 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.720 if it all goes to prosecutors way, and I think 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:36.159 the calendar allows for it. 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:40.320 Thanks so much, Michael. That's former federal prosecutor Michael Zelden. 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.560 Were the ninety three thousand claims have been filed by veterans, 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:50.520 their relatives, or camp employees who blame their cancer, Parkinson's disease, 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:54.240 and other health issues on the contaminated water at Camp 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:58.160 Lea June. So far, the Navy has not settled any 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.199 of the claims. That's led to more than eleven hundred 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:05.679 lawsuits that potential victims have filed in federal court, and 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.399 now there's a clash between the plaintiff's lawyers and the 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.120 Justice Department over how the court should manage what could 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:15.960 be thousands of lawsuits over payouts by the government. Marine 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.840 sickened by their tours at Camp La June say they've 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.560 waited nearly forty years to have the right to present 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.000 their case in court, and they don't want to wait 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:28.240 any longer. Joining me is Costubasu, senior enterprise reporter for 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.280 Bloomberg Law tell us about the background of this fight 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.320 by veterans over the contaminated water at Camp La June. 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.720 Well, you know this has been a battle of like 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.200 twenty years in the making. You know, early lawsuits were 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:47.600 thrown out of court. However, in August of twenty twenty two, 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:52.960 President Bidens signed a bill called a Backtact which included 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:58.040 compensation a possible compensation for those affected by toxic water 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:02.679 at Kampbla June in North Carolina, and a way for 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:06.120 them to file lawsuits if their claim was denied by 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:06.560 the Navy. 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.399 So more than ninety three thousand claims and more than 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:14.280 a thousand lawsuits. So they have until August of next 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.240 year to file their claims with the Navy. 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:22.359 Yes, and we are expecting that number to go up substantially. 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:28.080 You know, the Department of Veterans Affairs estimated that about 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:31.520 one million people could have been exposed to toxic water 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.720 at Cantila June. So that explains the scramble by law 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:39.679 firms and the search agencies to find more legion clients. 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:43.320 I mean, the Navy hasn't settled any of these claims. 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:46.840 Yes, and you know people have been filing claims essentially 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:51.320 since the bill was signed into law, and there have 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:54.480 been about ninety three thousand claims as of this week, 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.160 and they told me yesterday that none of these claims 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.280 have been settled the veterans, you know, if a claim 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.000 is not settled in six months but the Navy or 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.280 it's denied, they can file a lawsuit. In the Eastern 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:09.359 District of North Carolina. 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:13.919 Both sides have file proposals on how this should be managed. 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:16.480 What do the competing sides want. 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:21.000 Attorneys for the potential victim, they say that they've been 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.840