WEBVTT - Part One: The Dumbest Coup In World History

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<v Speaker 1>Shit, damn it. Nope, bad Um. That's the introduction for

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast though, because we're recording. Welcome to Behind the Bastards,

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast that is not introduced very well, but often

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<v Speaker 1>include stories of terrible people. Uh today, my guest to

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<v Speaker 1>help me kind of rewright the ship. After that terrible

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<v Speaker 1>introduction is the inimitable Bridget Todd Bridget Hello, Hello, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>so happy to be here, and even though we're not

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<v Speaker 1>physically in the same place, I am happy to be

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<v Speaker 1>here doing this socially distant podcast to you. We are

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<v Speaker 1>very socially distant because you and I are almost as

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<v Speaker 1>distant as we could possibly be while still being on

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<v Speaker 1>the same continent. So that's very very responsible. Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>you're You're on one side, I'm on the other. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>in d c Um. We're all wearing our masks and

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<v Speaker 1>freaking the funk out. You know, here are the nation's capital. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>here in where I am. Uh, no one is wearing

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<v Speaker 1>a mask and we all live in the woods. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>but we are both coastal elites, so that's fun. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>De Bridget, you are you are? You are a veteran podcaster.

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<v Speaker 1>You were on my podcast early on in behind the

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<v Speaker 1>Bastard's run. When we went to uh protest Nazis at

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<v Speaker 1>the second Unite the Right rally in d C. That

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<v Speaker 1>was fun. It was so fun. It was that was

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<v Speaker 1>my first time I protested a lot of things in

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<v Speaker 1>my life. That was my first time specifically protesting Nazis. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a good time. It was it was it

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<v Speaker 1>was a little like um, it was a little it

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<v Speaker 1>was a new experience, I'll put it that way. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a good thing to have done. And speaking

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<v Speaker 1>of good things to have done, Um, you know what's

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<v Speaker 1>not a good thing to do? What's that attempt to

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<v Speaker 1>overthrow the government of a sovereign nation for your own profit.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a good thing to do. Know, that was such

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<v Speaker 1>a good intro. I'm so proud, Thank you, thank cut. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's what we're talking about today. We're talking specifically about

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about cups because coups are in the news. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm proud of that one too. Uh. You remember when

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<v Speaker 1>I'm those guys tried to invade Venezuela and it didn't

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<v Speaker 1>work out and one of them wound up lying in

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<v Speaker 1>his own pa. Well, when that happened, I started getting

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<v Speaker 1>a whole bunch of people hit me up on Twitter

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<v Speaker 1>being like, you should do an episode about this, and

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<v Speaker 1>we will someday. But there's just there's there's so many

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<v Speaker 1>more dumb details that haven't come out yet. I'm certain

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<v Speaker 1>that it would be silly to cover it right now.

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<v Speaker 1>But also some folks reached out and said, like, you

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<v Speaker 1>should cover something called the Wonga Coup, which was a

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<v Speaker 1>coup in two thousand four in Equatorial Guinea that's generally

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<v Speaker 1>seen as one of the worst coup attempts at of

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<v Speaker 1>all time. So that's kind of what we're talking about today.

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<v Speaker 1>But I fell down a rabbit hole researching it, and

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<v Speaker 1>so mostly we're going to talk about like the whole

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<v Speaker 1>weird and dumb history of white people trying to overthrow

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<v Speaker 1>governments in Africa, um and usually being doing a really

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<v Speaker 1>bad job of it. So that's today. Yeah, that ship

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<v Speaker 1>never goes well, right, like it's it's always it always

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<v Speaker 1>turns out badly. Yeah, yeah, and it's awesome because like

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't matter if the leader they're trying to overthrow

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<v Speaker 1>is legitimately shitty or not. They always make the situation worse.

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<v Speaker 1>And and given how bad some of the dictators are.

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of incredible that they managed to like, like,

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<v Speaker 1>you've got a guy who like takes hands from people,

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<v Speaker 1>um for fun, and then like they make it worse somehow.

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<v Speaker 1>It's incredible. So that's today's podcast topic. Are you ready?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you ready to dive into this bridget I'm ready.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm locked and loaded. I'm stressed in let's do this, alright, alright, alright, alright,

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<v Speaker 1>So I want to start by going back in time

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<v Speaker 1>to what I think is the piece of fiction that

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<v Speaker 1>is kind of the seed for this desire in the

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<v Speaker 1>heads of some white dudes to carry out coups in Africa,

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<v Speaker 1>because there's a single fictional book that really started this

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<v Speaker 1>ball rolling, and it's a book called King's Solemn Minds.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you ever heard of King Solomon's Minds? Oh my gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>So this is um I read my dad read this

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<v Speaker 1>to me when I was a kid. Uh, And it's

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<v Speaker 1>like it was one of the big influences behind Indiana Jones,

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<v Speaker 1>which should give you an idea of kind of like

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<v Speaker 1>some of the themes that we can expect from King

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<v Speaker 1>Solomon's Minds. And it was it was written by a

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<v Speaker 1>fellow named h Writer Haggard and h writer Haggard is

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<v Speaker 1>like the colonial fiction writer of the eighteen hundreds in

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<v Speaker 1>early nineteen hundreds, UM and King Solomon's Minds is considered

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<v Speaker 1>to be like the quintessential classic of British colonialist leadership.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the first novel to star big game hunter and

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<v Speaker 1>explorer Alan Quartermain, who was like kind of like the

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<v Speaker 1>James Bond of the of the of of colonialism um.

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<v Speaker 1>And in fact, in the movie League of Extraordinary Gentleman

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<v Speaker 1>he was played by Sean Connery, So that's interesting. Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>now I know, I know it. Yeah, he's like the

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<v Speaker 1>and if you've never even read one of these books,

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<v Speaker 1>you've been influenced by this guy because he's Alan Quartermain

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<v Speaker 1>is like the arc type of like the British big

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<v Speaker 1>game hunting like Safari dude, and like, yeah, like the

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<v Speaker 1>guy in um fucking Jumanji, like the White Guy Hunter

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<v Speaker 1>is based off of old Quartermain. Like that's just how

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<v Speaker 1>they always do it. It's a very influential character and

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<v Speaker 1>in King Solomon's Minds is generally regarded as the first

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<v Speaker 1>example of a book in the Lost World genre of fiction.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know those those kinds of books and movies

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<v Speaker 1>where like a bunch of explorers or scientists find a

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<v Speaker 1>loster forgotten city in some desolate chunk of the world. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty familiar with that genre. Yeah, H Writer Haggard

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<v Speaker 1>invented it. King Solomon's Minds is like the first example

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<v Speaker 1>of that kind of book. I feel like, I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like I can picture what this guy looks like, Like

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<v Speaker 1>I'm picturing a safari hat, like maybe some like loose

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<v Speaker 1>khaki pants of some kind. Yeah, very specific kind of

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<v Speaker 1>facial hair. Yes, you you know you know everything about

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<v Speaker 1>H Writer Haggard in his life now, Um. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>you kind of get it by the name. Like if

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<v Speaker 1>someone tells you there's a famous author named H Writer Haggard,

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<v Speaker 1>you could probably guess, Oh, he wrote books about how

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<v Speaker 1>colonialism is awesome, didn't he? Yeah? Um. So, the basic

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<v Speaker 1>gist of the story is that a group of explorers,

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<v Speaker 1>led by my own quartermain go on the search for

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<v Speaker 1>a lost europe and who went missing looking for the

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<v Speaker 1>fabled King Solomon's minds, and that's the big Biblical King Solomon.

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<v Speaker 1>There's this rumor that he had these famous diamond minds YadA, YadA, YadA.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh So they go off looking for these this white

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<v Speaker 1>guy and these minds, and they wind up finding a

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<v Speaker 1>lost African civilization that possesses tremendous wealth. The movie Congo,

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<v Speaker 1>based off the Michael Crichton book of the same name,

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<v Speaker 1>is the modern adaptation of this story. So yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>interestingly enough, for as racist as this book is, it's

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<v Speaker 1>not as racist as you might assume. Um it. Actually

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<v Speaker 1>it actually opens with the main character, Alan Quartermain going

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<v Speaker 1>on an angry and angry rant about how the in

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<v Speaker 1>word is never okay to use um and it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>always So that's good, right, Like that's a step that's

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<v Speaker 1>pretty progressive, I guess what you mean. Yeah. Yeah, And

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<v Speaker 1>there's even an interracial relationship in it, although the black

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<v Speaker 1>woman dating the white guy dies. Um, but like eight

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<v Speaker 1>that's about as good as your credit kids from a

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<v Speaker 1>white guy book. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be expecting

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<v Speaker 1>that from the eighteen hundreds, like a little interracial pairing.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course she has to die in the end, of course. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>um yeah. And h writer Haggard did repeatedly point out

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<v Speaker 1>through his characters that a lot of European colonialist officers

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<v Speaker 1>were horrible people. Alan Cortermain regularly notes that a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of black africancy meats are more worthy of the word

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<v Speaker 1>gentleman than British officials, so it's it's not the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of racist you'd expect, but it's also simultaneously still one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most racist books ever written for a very

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<v Speaker 1>specific reason. Um see. The climax of the book comes

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<v Speaker 1>when the explorers managed to finally okay the lost kingdom

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<v Speaker 1>of Kuwana Land, which is a surprisingly well organized and

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<v Speaker 1>advanced society that's completely cut off from the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>the world by tall mountains in a wide desert. The

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<v Speaker 1>kingdom is ruled by a cruel king, Twala, who maintains

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<v Speaker 1>power by dint of horrific violence. The white explorers are

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<v Speaker 1>able to get special treatment by convincing the natives that

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<v Speaker 1>they're white men from the stars, basically magical gods, but

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<v Speaker 1>they're horrified by the brutality of the king and his

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<v Speaker 1>evil advisor, Gagool, who regularly burns innocent people as witches

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<v Speaker 1>and traders. Um, yeah, I know, a yeah. So it

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<v Speaker 1>becomes gradually clear that the current king earned his position

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<v Speaker 1>by murdering his brother, the old King, and forcing his

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<v Speaker 1>brother's wife an infant son, out into the desert to die.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's a lot of the Lion King in this

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<v Speaker 1>story too, Like it was clearly inspired by King Solomon's

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<v Speaker 1>minds in a lot of ways. And anyway, it turns

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<v Speaker 1>out that one of the porters that the white expedition

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<v Speaker 1>team brought along, um, this guy named Umbopa is the

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<v Speaker 1>royal child who got ex sild you know, decades earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was noted throughout the book is being better

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<v Speaker 1>looking and more well spoken than the other Africans who

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<v Speaker 1>like we're working for the expedition. So the white people

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<v Speaker 1>decided to overthrow the king of Kuwana Land and put

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<v Speaker 1>their friend Umboba on the front on the throne instead,

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<v Speaker 1>And after a vicious battle that kills a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>black people but no white people, they succeeded instituting regime

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<v Speaker 1>change in Kuwana Land and they get to go home

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<v Speaker 1>with pockets full of diamonds. So that's like the that's

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<v Speaker 1>the story of Like you can you can draw a

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<v Speaker 1>straight line from King Solomon's mind to the thinking that

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<v Speaker 1>led us to war in Iraq if you really like

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<v Speaker 1>it's not hard, yeah, just killing off black and brown

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<v Speaker 1>people and like like coming back with your pockets full

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<v Speaker 1>of diamonds. Yeah, that that fantasy and you make everything

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<v Speaker 1>better by putting your one black friend in charge and

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<v Speaker 1>like yeah, that's the whole like that's the story. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>So I also have to say it really is very

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<v Speaker 1>Lion King, this idea that you know, this guy was

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<v Speaker 1>more handsome and like somehow better and then like he comes,

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<v Speaker 1>he goes away, comes back like I want to be

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<v Speaker 1>watched The Lion King. Now, yeah, there's some there's some

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<v Speaker 1>of this in The Lion King for sure. Obviously it

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<v Speaker 1>has a lot of influences, but there's there's there's pieces

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<v Speaker 1>of h writer Haggard in that script. So um yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this book was a huge success, was like one of

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest books of the nineteenth century period. Um And

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<v Speaker 1>like I said, it inspired the whole Lost World genre.

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<v Speaker 1>It inspired probably tens of thousands of particularly white British kids,

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<v Speaker 1>but a lot of Americans too, to go to Africa

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<v Speaker 1>and like overthrow fucking countries. Um And while he did,

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<v Speaker 1>like absolutely this book inspired real world coups, it was

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<v Speaker 1>also inspired by stuff that had happened earlier in the

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<v Speaker 1>history of like African colonialism. Um. Cecil Rhodes is mercenary

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<v Speaker 1>army with the British South Africa Company had conquered Zimbobwi

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<v Speaker 1>and Zambia. The British East Africa Company, under the command

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<v Speaker 1>of Mercenary Frederick Lugard, had conquered large chunks of East

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<v Speaker 1>and West Africa uh and in all these places, local

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<v Speaker 1>leaders were selected to rule based on their amended amenability

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<v Speaker 1>to the desires of white Europeans, and for decades the

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<v Speaker 1>whole story was repeated all over the continent. So H

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<v Speaker 1>writer Haggard didn't come up with this idea obviously, but

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<v Speaker 1>he created like this very classical and and and attractive

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<v Speaker 1>fictional justification for it that helped, um helped solidify it

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<v Speaker 1>in the heads of of white colonialists. Is like the

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<v Speaker 1>way things ought to go. Um. So yeah, that's that's

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<v Speaker 1>that's cool. It's not cool, but it happened. It's not cool,

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<v Speaker 1>it's funny. I really feel like in addition to the

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<v Speaker 1>way that we understand, you know, um kind of American

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<v Speaker 1>exceptionalism and the idea of like going to another country

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<v Speaker 1>or another continent and like and like we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>quote save them and then get rich in the process,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like I see that vibe reverberated in so

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<v Speaker 1>many different ways, Like even the idea of like how

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<v Speaker 1>white people have this idea that they're going to go

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<v Speaker 1>to Africa and save the babies, and they post a

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<v Speaker 1>picture of them like helping in Africa Instagram. Like the

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<v Speaker 1>entire kind of gross vibe. I feel like it's sort

0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.840
<v Speaker 1>of established as a blueprint in this work. Yeah, it

0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.280
<v Speaker 1>really is. And it's like right down to the fact

0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.320
<v Speaker 1>that this would actually be I think a less unsettling

0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.760
<v Speaker 1>novel King Solomon's Minds if h writer Haggard had been

0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:29.000
<v Speaker 1>super hatefully racist. Um, but he's like you see part

0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.160
<v Speaker 1>of like a lot of the horror that comes from

0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.320
<v Speaker 1>like attempts even as particularly in the modern day, like

0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 1>when we we talked about that lady, that white girl

0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:41.240
<v Speaker 1>in Africa who like ran that baby killing clinic. Um, yeah,

0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:47.640
<v Speaker 1>fucking wild, yeah wild. And it's um, it's always it's

0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.680
<v Speaker 1>always sketchier and often more dangerous when the person doing

0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.840
<v Speaker 1>this stuff is like super woke about it, right, And

0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.200
<v Speaker 1>that's kind of what's so scary about King Solomon's Minds

0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.280
<v Speaker 1>is that it's this white guy being like, oh, these

0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.240
<v Speaker 1>white dudes in Africa are doing horrible things. I know,

0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:07.360
<v Speaker 1>the right thing. White dudes in Africa should be doing, Like, Yeah,

0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.400
<v Speaker 1>I think you totally hit on something that it's sort

0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:14.000
<v Speaker 1>of like scary. If someone is evil and racist, I

0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.280
<v Speaker 1>get it, I understand it. I know where they're coming from. Cool.

0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.040
<v Speaker 1>If they have a mentality that they are righteous or

0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.560
<v Speaker 1>that they're like the fact that this person probably thought

0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.560
<v Speaker 1>he was like doing something good like that is so

0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.920
<v Speaker 1>much scarier. And I feel like has such a more

0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:34.000
<v Speaker 1>a bigger capacity for evil when you think that you're righteous. Yep.

0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:38.080
<v Speaker 1>And and the person we will eventually get to who

0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.679
<v Speaker 1>carries out this possibly the worst planned coup in all

0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:45.640
<v Speaker 1>of history, is like the Patriot, well the archetype, at

0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:49.280
<v Speaker 1>least of of that kind of person. So uh. As

0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.319
<v Speaker 1>the eighteen hundreds turned into the nineteen hundreds in the

0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.120
<v Speaker 1>world wars came and went, Europeans in particular and white

0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.880
<v Speaker 1>folks in general gradually started to accept that, on balance,

0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:02.120
<v Speaker 1>colonialism had at least been a problem amatic idea uh Europe.

0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Europe gradually began to release their active or their captive

0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.719
<v Speaker 1>African colonies from their chains, and since there was no

0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.120
<v Speaker 1>profit in doing this, colonies were generally let go in

0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 1>the laziest way possible, slap dash elections were held, and

0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 1>as a general rule, men were left in charge who

0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.040
<v Speaker 1>colonialists thought would be trusted to rule in a manner

0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:24.120
<v Speaker 1>beneficial to European economic interests. One example of this would

0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.840
<v Speaker 1>be former British military sergeant Idi Amine, who we we

0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.840
<v Speaker 1>did an episode about, you know you, just like we

0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.160
<v Speaker 1>gotta leave this country. It's there's no money in like

0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 1>actually setting up a functional government before we go. So like, uh,

0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.480
<v Speaker 1>this guy is good at beating people up and likes us.

0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:46.680
<v Speaker 1>Let's put him in charge. Nothing will go wrong. Yeah.

0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.160
<v Speaker 1>So obviously, sometimes these newly freed local people's made decisions

0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.120
<v Speaker 1>that white folks thought were dangerous. Since the militaries of

0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.240
<v Speaker 1>states like Great Britain and Belgium could no longer be

0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:59.520
<v Speaker 1>used to enforce order directly, they often turned to mercenaries

0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:03.000
<v Speaker 1>to do so. These modern datacendants of Alan Quartermain and

0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.560
<v Speaker 1>his companions regularly used their superior military training and access

0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.560
<v Speaker 1>to firepower to carry out their own coups. Mad Mike

0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.320
<v Speaker 1>core is probably the patron saint of this kind of guy.

0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.640
<v Speaker 1>He was originally a British soldier born in Calcutta and

0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 1>raised on a steady diet of novels by h writer

0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Haggard and his fellow adventure writers. Mad Mike joined the

0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.680
<v Speaker 1>British Army, but by the nineteen sixties the Empire was

0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 1>in steep decline and the colonies he'd been raised to

0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:32.400
<v Speaker 1>help control we're flying free. So Mad Mike became a mercenary.

0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.360
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen sixty one, he he traveled to the Congo

0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>to fight Moishi Shamba, who wanted to create a breakaway

0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.600
<v Speaker 1>nation by leading the Congo's wealthiest territory and secession. Now

0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.480
<v Speaker 1>this was all, in reality a plot by rich Belgian

0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.320
<v Speaker 1>business owners in the CIA to ensure that black Africans

0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.800
<v Speaker 1>didn't have the opportunity to control a huge chunk of

0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.800
<v Speaker 1>their continents wealth. Like this breakaway chunk of the Congo

0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 1>was more friendly to Belgian economic interests, and the Congo

0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.560
<v Speaker 1>at that point was controlled by the socialist leader who

0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 1>they later assassinated. We did an episode on that, Patrice

0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:07.000
<v Speaker 1>lamumba Um. But yeah, so the whole attempt failed. The

0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.800
<v Speaker 1>secession attempt failed, and two of Mike's men were allegedly

0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.880
<v Speaker 1>cannibalized in the attempt, But he didn't lose the bug

0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.440
<v Speaker 1>for trying to like lead coups in African nations. A

0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 1>couple of years later, Shambay was elected Prime Minister of

0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:21.960
<v Speaker 1>the Congo under shady read. The CIA put him in

0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:26.360
<v Speaker 1>power circumstances and Shambay angled himself as an anti communist fighter,

0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.680
<v Speaker 1>but he was really just a tyrant, unhappy Congolese people

0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.160
<v Speaker 1>revolted against Shamba, backed by the U. S. S R.

0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.960
<v Speaker 1>And the Cuban government. Se Guevara got involved, and obviously

0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.800
<v Speaker 1>these guys weren't super great either. So basically you just

0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:40.560
<v Speaker 1>had kind of and this is like the story of

0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.120
<v Speaker 1>Africa in a lot of the Cold War, you have

0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 1>like Soviet imperialists on one side being like, we'll give

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.280
<v Speaker 1>you guns if you do the thing we like, and

0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.120
<v Speaker 1>you have capitalist imperialists on the other side going like,

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.040
<v Speaker 1>we'll give you guns if you do the thing that

0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.479
<v Speaker 1>we like. And Mad Mike Core and his fellow mercenaries

0:16:57.520 --> 0:16:59.360
<v Speaker 1>made a lot of money by just kind of standing

0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:01.280
<v Speaker 1>in the middle and shooting at whoever had the most

0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:06.240
<v Speaker 1>cash or shooting for whoever had the most cash. Um

0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.480
<v Speaker 1>For years, the Congo Wars provided white combat veterans with

0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.160
<v Speaker 1>steady employment. Mad Mike was a World War Two veteran.

0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.000
<v Speaker 1>A lot of these guys were World War two veterans,

0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.840
<v Speaker 1>and like they were just guys who, like after the

0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.720
<v Speaker 1>war ended, they couldn't do anything else but kill people.

0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:22.960
<v Speaker 1>And a number of them were actually Nazi military veterans.

0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:24.919
<v Speaker 1>That was even in like the French Foreign Legion had

0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.280
<v Speaker 1>a lot of Nazi military veterans because they were like,

0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.520
<v Speaker 1>all I know how to do is kill people. And

0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.640
<v Speaker 1>the French Foreign Legions like, will you help us kill

0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.480
<v Speaker 1>people who aren't white in Africa? And they were like absolutely,

0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:39.800
<v Speaker 1>as long as I'm killing so uh now, Mad Mike.

0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.440
<v Speaker 1>Uh again, it's probably the most famous of these guys,

0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.240
<v Speaker 1>and he he among other things, he was renowned for

0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:49.400
<v Speaker 1>telling black mercenaries who attempted to join his mercenary army

0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.240
<v Speaker 1>that he only hired white women or white men. Uh.

0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.840
<v Speaker 1>He earned a colorful reputation for, among other things, shooting

0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.000
<v Speaker 1>the toes off of a fellow mercenary who had raped

0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.679
<v Speaker 1>a woman in the field. Um And as a general rule, uh,

0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Mad Mike soldiers were kind of rough customers. You might say, yeah, yeah,

0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.960
<v Speaker 1>I would say they sound like rock customers. Yeah yeah,

0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.159
<v Speaker 1>shoot shot the toes off a man, I mean, you know.

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.000
<v Speaker 1>So as the fighting in the Congo War on Mad

0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.720
<v Speaker 1>Mike wound up on the side of Mobotu sesse Ciccu,

0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:25.440
<v Speaker 1>the Congo's longest lived dictator. Uh Moboto also patterned himself

0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.520
<v Speaker 1>as an anti communist fighter, which was enough to earn

0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.320
<v Speaker 1>the allegiance of the CIA and of Mad Mike. In

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.560
<v Speaker 1>order to help Mobot stay in power and fight against rebels,

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.800
<v Speaker 1>he put together a commando army of Irish mercenaries, the

0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.719
<v Speaker 1>Wild Geese. Here's how the Washington Post recalled their service

0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.720
<v Speaker 1>in the obituary they wrote for Mad Mike earlier this year.

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:49.560
<v Speaker 1>This guy fucking had the longest life. Like, sorry, and

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.240
<v Speaker 1>I went a million years. I never would have thought

0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.560
<v Speaker 1>that you were going to say he died earlier this year. Yeah,

0:18:55.560 --> 0:19:02.240
<v Speaker 1>he was a hundred years old. Like, get incredible, um quote,

0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:04.960
<v Speaker 1>I believe we have a great mission here, he told

0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.359
<v Speaker 1>a fellow mercenary. According to a history of the Simba

0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Rebellion by John Hopkins, professor Piero guil Jas, the Africans

0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.119
<v Speaker 1>have gotten used to the idea that they can do

0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.400
<v Speaker 1>whatever they like to us Whites, that they can trample

0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.119
<v Speaker 1>on us and spit on us. So that's that's the

0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.680
<v Speaker 1>kind of fella Mike is dubbed the White Giants. Mr

0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:25.160
<v Speaker 1>Horrors men spelled swept through the country, mowing down untrained

0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.560
<v Speaker 1>and outnumbered Seemba forces who believed that witchcraft made them impervious.

0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Two bullets in total. The mercenary unit was paid about

0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.119
<v Speaker 1>three thousand dollars a month by US authorities, according to

0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.320
<v Speaker 1>a Post report, and backed by what The New York

0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Times described as an instant air force created by the

0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.080
<v Speaker 1>c i A. So can way back up to the

0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:48.040
<v Speaker 1>White Giants just for like one second that needed. It's

0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.639
<v Speaker 1>it's actually the reason why they were called giants is

0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.000
<v Speaker 1>actually pretty sad. It's because they all grew up in

0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.159
<v Speaker 1>wealthier western countries and had access to a lot of

0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:58.320
<v Speaker 1>protein and milk and stuff like that when they were

0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.200
<v Speaker 1>growing up, and folks in the cong go Uh tended

0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.760
<v Speaker 1>to be malnourished, in large part due to the fact

0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.840
<v Speaker 1>that the Belgian colonialists who had owned them had starved

0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.879
<v Speaker 1>the entirety of Central Africa for decades prior to this point,

0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.080
<v Speaker 1>and so people in the Congo tended to be smaller,

0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:18.240
<v Speaker 1>and white mercenaries tended to be very large. Well that's up, Jesus. Yeah,

0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:22.719
<v Speaker 1>it's not great. It's not great. The world. Yeah, so

0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.440
<v Speaker 1>the white giants or the wild geese, whatever you wanna

0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:28.879
<v Speaker 1>call them, killed a shitload of people. Mike himself bragged

0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.879
<v Speaker 1>to journalists, quote, killing communist is like killing vermin. Killing

0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.920
<v Speaker 1>African nationalists is as if one is killing an animal.

0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.439
<v Speaker 1>My men and I have killed between five thousand and

0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.880
<v Speaker 1>ten thousand Congo rebels in the twenty months that I've

0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:43.239
<v Speaker 1>spent in the Congo. But that's not enough. There are

0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.720
<v Speaker 1>twenty million Congolees, you know, and I assumed that about

0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:47.600
<v Speaker 1>half of them at one point or another were rebels

0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.040
<v Speaker 1>whilst I was down there. This is interesting to me

0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.520
<v Speaker 1>for a couple of reasons. One of them is that, uh,

0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.840
<v Speaker 1>the generation prior to Mike, King Leopold of Belgium had

0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:58.679
<v Speaker 1>killed fully half of the population of the Congo. And

0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.000
<v Speaker 1>here you have another white guy generation later being like,

0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:04.639
<v Speaker 1>if we just got rid of another half, yeah, pretty

0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 1>bad people, pretty bad. And Matt Mike is perfectly embodies

0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:11.120
<v Speaker 1>the fact that a lot of the men who were

0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:14.439
<v Speaker 1>responsible for fighting the Nazis would have been perfectly happy

0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.240
<v Speaker 1>with Nazism if Hitler had just picked slightly different white

0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.920
<v Speaker 1>people to fight. Oh yeah, I have to It's funny

0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:22.199
<v Speaker 1>that you say this, I feel like I have to

0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.159
<v Speaker 1>like tell, like admit something. When I was young, I

0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.480
<v Speaker 1>thought that there was just like white people. I had

0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:31.400
<v Speaker 1>no idea that there was like in like these white

0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:33.040
<v Speaker 1>people don't like that white people. I thought it was

0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:35.639
<v Speaker 1>just white people. And when we found that out, it

0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.040
<v Speaker 1>was like a big sort of galaxy brained thing for me.

0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:42.000
<v Speaker 1>I didn't realize that white people could have problems with

0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:45.160
<v Speaker 1>other white people. That was like a whole um new

0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:50.240
<v Speaker 1>understanding of how white people function. For me, it's we're fascinating.

0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.320
<v Speaker 1>There's this thing going on. I mean it's been going

0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.159
<v Speaker 1>on for a long time within like Nazi circles, but

0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:57.840
<v Speaker 1>it's it's hitting the internet. Nazis now, well, we're like

0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.800
<v Speaker 1>in depictions of Mussolini, they'll depict him as a black man.

0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.000
<v Speaker 1>And the reason is because there's a chunk of white

0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:06.560
<v Speaker 1>people who think that Italians are still who still think

0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Italians aren't white. It's it's pretty wide the time. Yeah.

0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:18.480
<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, that's like the racism equivalent of still using

0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.879
<v Speaker 1>my Space, like like we've moved on having like a

0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:28.120
<v Speaker 1>hot mail email. Yeah, yeah, that's hot mail for Nazis

0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:35.359
<v Speaker 1>is calling like Italians non white um so, yeah, yeah,

0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:36.879
<v Speaker 1>Mike killed a lot of people. Mike and has been

0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:38.720
<v Speaker 1>were good enough at killing to ensure that the regime

0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:42.000
<v Speaker 1>of Mbuto say Ciccu was established and allowed to persist

0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:45.439
<v Speaker 1>for thirty brutal years. Mabot spent the time robbing the

0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:49.080
<v Speaker 1>Congo blind, providing no social services, building no infrastructure, and

0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.120
<v Speaker 1>torturing unknown numbers of Congolese people who complained about any

0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:54.920
<v Speaker 1>of this. The CIA was fine with all of it, because, again,

0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:59.439
<v Speaker 1>Maboto was not a communist. Now, um Mad Mike's success

0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:01.440
<v Speaker 1>made him in to a mini celebrity, and he was

0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:04.440
<v Speaker 1>indeed a colorful character, and one interview he told a

0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:06.760
<v Speaker 1>Post reporter quote, I think I'd like to have been

0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:09.560
<v Speaker 1>born in the time of Sir Francis Drake. Yes, out sailing,

0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:12.120
<v Speaker 1>robbing the Spaniards, and when you brought the booty back

0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:14.240
<v Speaker 1>to Queen Elizabeth, you knelt before her and she made

0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:16.600
<v Speaker 1>you a night. You were respectable even though you were

0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:20.760
<v Speaker 1>a thief. So yep, yep, that's the guy he is.

0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:23.240
<v Speaker 1>So Unfortunately for Mad Mike, Mike and a lot of

0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:25.680
<v Speaker 1>other people, it turns out that coups are kind of addictive.

0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:28.920
<v Speaker 1>In nearly nineteen eighties, sixty two year old mad Mike

0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:31.439
<v Speaker 1>Hory led forty men in an attempt to overthrow the

0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:35.560
<v Speaker 1>socialist Resume regime of the Seychelles and reinstall an old

0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:39.359
<v Speaker 1>pro capitalist president. The plan was comical. Mike's men dressed

0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:42.399
<v Speaker 1>as rugby players with a drinking club named Ye ancient

0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.440
<v Speaker 1>order of froth Blowers. They hid their A K forty

0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:49.440
<v Speaker 1>seven's and fake bottom bags and posed as tourists. Unfortunately,

0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:52.400
<v Speaker 1>they all got fucking drunk his ship on the flight over,

0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:54.679
<v Speaker 1>and so they were really drunk when they arrived at

0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.080
<v Speaker 1>the harrival arrivals call and they started a fight with

0:23:57.160 --> 0:24:00.480
<v Speaker 1>customs and so the customs guys like said like fuck you,

0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:02.760
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna search your bags now. And then they found

0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:05.720
<v Speaker 1>the A K forty seven, which sparked this massive gunfight

0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:07.920
<v Speaker 1>in the customs hall at the airport and say the

0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:12.439
<v Speaker 1>say shells. So again Mike and his men had overwhelming firepower,

0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:14.480
<v Speaker 1>but they were also hammered. So they shot one of

0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:16.320
<v Speaker 1>their own men to death and then killed one of

0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:20.040
<v Speaker 1>the other soldiers. And this like running incompetent running gun

0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:25.320
<v Speaker 1>battle that that ends when they hijack an Air India

0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:28.480
<v Speaker 1>flight and forced the crew at gunpoint to fly them

0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:34.200
<v Speaker 1>to South Africa. Oh my god, I have I part

0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:37.040
<v Speaker 1>of me a little sympathetic for who among us has

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:42.040
<v Speaker 1>not had big plans because you got too drunk. Right. Look,

0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:46.520
<v Speaker 1>look they're they're racists and monsters, but they're still humans,

0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:51.840
<v Speaker 1>right Like, yeah, yes, I I too have had getting

0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:54.360
<v Speaker 1>drunk on a plane interfere with a plan and lead

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:58.440
<v Speaker 1>to a fight at customs that leads to you killing someone. Yeah.

0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:00.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean if I had an a K forty seven,

0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:02.920
<v Speaker 1>I might have hijacked an Air India flight. Like there's

0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:05.719
<v Speaker 1>no way to know. You know, they don't stop you.

0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:08.679
<v Speaker 1>They never cut you off on Air Emirates when you're drinking.

0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:12.560
<v Speaker 1>So yes, a lot of things can happen. Um, shout out,

0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:18.320
<v Speaker 1>shout out to Air Emirates, shout out the open bar

0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:23.119
<v Speaker 1>in the sky. So um. Yeah. So they were all

0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:25.439
<v Speaker 1>arrested as soon as they landed in South Africa. And

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:29.040
<v Speaker 1>this is again apartheid. South Africa was like you crossed

0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:35.280
<v Speaker 1>a line, Mike. Even we have to arrestue we're doing

0:25:35.320 --> 0:25:37.280
<v Speaker 1>a buck ship to people, but we even we have

0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:43.760
<v Speaker 1>standards like come Jesus, dude. So he gets arrested and

0:25:43.880 --> 0:25:47.080
<v Speaker 1>during his trial Hoary testified that the South African government

0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:49.560
<v Speaker 1>had approved the coup and given him weapons, and this

0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:52.520
<v Speaker 1>was almost certainly true, although the government denied it because

0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:56.239
<v Speaker 1>obviously South Africa fucking loved coups um as long as

0:25:56.240 --> 0:26:00.639
<v Speaker 1>they were, you know, the right kind of coups um. Yeah,

0:26:00.680 --> 0:26:02.760
<v Speaker 1>the government denied it though. Mike was sentenced to ten

0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:05.360
<v Speaker 1>years in prison, but he was released after just three.

0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:07.840
<v Speaker 1>After he was freed, a journalist asked him if he

0:26:07.880 --> 0:26:10.640
<v Speaker 1>planned to retire. He responded, this is all the question

0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:14.879
<v Speaker 1>of opportunity. Mercenary opportunities now mainly exist in films and books,

0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:18.800
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, as I told you, inconceivably, Mad Mike survived

0:26:18.840 --> 0:26:22.120
<v Speaker 1>until February of this year, um, which is fucking wild

0:26:22.800 --> 0:26:25.520
<v Speaker 1>when you talk to the mercenaries that came after him, though,

0:26:25.600 --> 0:26:28.199
<v Speaker 1>generally say that Mike was one half of a holy

0:26:28.320 --> 0:26:31.240
<v Speaker 1>duo of African mercenaries who kind of like inspired the

0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:34.520
<v Speaker 1>whole modern modern field of mercenary dumb uh and the

0:26:34.560 --> 0:26:37.400
<v Speaker 1>other half. His other half was a guy named Bob Dinnard,

0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:39.520
<v Speaker 1>a French imperialist who did a lot of the same

0:26:39.600 --> 0:26:42.680
<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff as Mad Mike, but more quietly, competently

0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:45.960
<v Speaker 1>and on behalf of France. In nineteen seventy seven, Bob

0:26:46.000 --> 0:26:48.879
<v Speaker 1>Dinard led eighty mercenaries in an attempt to overthrow the

0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:52.480
<v Speaker 1>communist government of Benin, which had recently nationalized all of

0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:56.720
<v Speaker 1>their banks and their petroleum industry. Unfortunately, Bob timed things badly.

0:26:56.840 --> 0:26:59.639
<v Speaker 1>The president wasn't home when Dinard's mercenary army reached his

0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:03.280
<v Speaker 1>pal us. A detachment of North Korean military advisors were

0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:06.040
<v Speaker 1>at home, and they had heavy machine guns. So Bob's

0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:08.399
<v Speaker 1>men were forced into a fighting retreat. But as we

0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:11.159
<v Speaker 1>saw with Mad Mike Corey, uh, coups are addictive, and

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:13.840
<v Speaker 1>the very next year Bob Dinard hired another army to

0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:16.880
<v Speaker 1>overthrow the government of the Comoros, a small island nation

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:20.639
<v Speaker 1>off of Africa's East coast. His fifty men brought brought

0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:23.760
<v Speaker 1>sought off shotguns in a case of dompaign on Champagne.

0:27:23.920 --> 0:27:27.080
<v Speaker 1>They landed on the coast, attacked the president of the palace,

0:27:27.200 --> 0:27:29.959
<v Speaker 1>murdered the president and installed his rival. Then they got

0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:34.639
<v Speaker 1>drunk on Champagne. Uh So, yeah, most of these mercenary

0:27:34.720 --> 0:27:36.560
<v Speaker 1>coups don't work out well, but some of them do,

0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:40.000
<v Speaker 1>and they're very profitable when they do. Also, shout out

0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:43.560
<v Speaker 1>to the to the expensive fancy champagne. I mean these

0:27:43.600 --> 0:27:46.399
<v Speaker 1>guys knew how to party. Look yeah, I mean again,

0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:50.160
<v Speaker 1>that is a G move, Like yeah, bringing a case

0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:54.600
<v Speaker 1>of champagne with you to the coup is Yeah, that's

0:27:54.640 --> 0:27:59.680
<v Speaker 1>that's a G move. I yep. I don't want to interrupt.

0:27:59.760 --> 0:28:01.960
<v Speaker 1>So I think your dog is like is he Is

0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:05.479
<v Speaker 1>she humping something? She she she's not humping up thing.

0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:09.000
<v Speaker 1>She's licking something. And I don't know. And I will

0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:14.560
<v Speaker 1>not disrupt her in interactions. Leave her b I'm proud

0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:17.480
<v Speaker 1>of her. I like, what's happening, and it gives you

0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:21.720
<v Speaker 1>a free show while we record this episode. A show

0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:25.160
<v Speaker 1>within a show is a show a show. Yes, Anderson

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:29.520
<v Speaker 1>has just performed a coup on behind the Bastards, taking

0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:34.560
<v Speaker 1>over attention, uh and spoilers. She also has a case

0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:40.120
<v Speaker 1>of dom pairing on champagne and a sawd off shotgun. Yeah,

0:28:40.320 --> 0:28:43.080
<v Speaker 1>she knows you're talking about her. It's so funny. She's like,

0:28:43.160 --> 0:28:46.920
<v Speaker 1>my brother's talking about me. I hear him. She thinks

0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:54.040
<v Speaker 1>of you as her brother probably yeah, so uh yeah.

0:28:54.120 --> 0:28:56.400
<v Speaker 1>This all builds to the point that there's a long

0:28:56.480 --> 0:28:59.959
<v Speaker 1>history of small groups of mercenaries overthrowing tiny African nations

0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:02.800
<v Speaker 1>reinforced in both actual ship that happened and in fiction

0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:06.360
<v Speaker 1>like King Solomon's Minds. In the real world cases, western

0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:11.000
<v Speaker 1>governments were generally involved, and almost always the South African government.

0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:14.320
<v Speaker 1>The people who lived in these nations were never ever consulted.

0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:18.640
<v Speaker 1>And all of this background brings me bridget to the

0:29:18.680 --> 0:29:21.880
<v Speaker 1>story of Fernando Po. Have you ever heard of Fernando Po.

0:29:22.160 --> 0:29:25.520
<v Speaker 1>I have not. So It's an island off the west

0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:28.040
<v Speaker 1>coast of Africa and it makes up the bulk of

0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:32.360
<v Speaker 1>the nation we now call Equatorial Guinea UM and Fernando

0:29:32.440 --> 0:29:35.600
<v Speaker 1>Po was colonized by Spain prior to the Great Scramble

0:29:35.680 --> 0:29:38.080
<v Speaker 1>for Africa, but they never really did anything with it.

0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Bastard Pod alumni Henry Morton Stanley called the island the

0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:44.560
<v Speaker 1>pearl of the Gulf of Guinea, but stated that he

0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:46.520
<v Speaker 1>would not pay a penny for it as it was

0:29:46.600 --> 0:29:49.520
<v Speaker 1>a jewel which Spain did not polish. So basically the

0:29:49.560 --> 0:29:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Spanish like owned this place, but they never really did

0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:53.440
<v Speaker 1>anything for it because there wasn't really anything to do.

0:29:53.760 --> 0:29:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Like when white people went there, they always died because

0:29:56.000 --> 0:29:58.240
<v Speaker 1>like they didn't have any immunity to the local diseases,

0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:01.040
<v Speaker 1>and there wasn't any gold or anything that was generally

0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:03.840
<v Speaker 1>considered to be super value valuable by white people on

0:30:03.840 --> 0:30:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Fernando Po. So it was kind of like a refueling station,

0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:09.800
<v Speaker 1>but not much more for for Spain for most of

0:30:09.800 --> 0:30:13.360
<v Speaker 1>the time that they controlled it. Um So, I'm gonna

0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:15.880
<v Speaker 1>quote next from a book called The Wonga Coup by

0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Adam Roberts for a picture of how Fernando Po fared

0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:23.080
<v Speaker 1>under colonialism. Quote. In nineteen thirty six, the British novelist

0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Graham Green, who was generally fond of West Africa, dismissed

0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:29.320
<v Speaker 1>the dreadful little Spanish island, where there existed a mild

0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:32.200
<v Speaker 1>form of slavery that enabled a man to pawn his children.

0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Towards the end of its two centuries of rules, Spain

0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:37.000
<v Speaker 1>did little to improve the lives of those it ruled.

0:30:37.160 --> 0:30:39.600
<v Speaker 1>The colonial power set up an economy based on cocoa

0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:43.120
<v Speaker 1>plantations in a reasonable school system. Health campaigns reduced the

0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:46.360
<v Speaker 1>impact of tropical diseases, at least on Fernando Po. By

0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:49.080
<v Speaker 1>the second half of the twentieth century, Equatorial Guineas were

0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:51.719
<v Speaker 1>less poor than most Africans thanks to exports of cocoa,

0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:54.920
<v Speaker 1>but few Spaniards settled, and Native Africans were denied political

0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:58.800
<v Speaker 1>rights and economic chances. When independence loomed, the Spanish organized

0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:01.560
<v Speaker 1>hasty poles to find a new government. Spain under its

0:31:01.600 --> 0:31:05.200
<v Speaker 1>own dictator, General Franco, was hardly qualified to promote democracy,

0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:08.479
<v Speaker 1>and Equatorial Guinea was ill prepared when, in late nineteen

0:31:08.560 --> 0:31:11.120
<v Speaker 1>sixty eight it became the hundred and twenty six member

0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:14.720
<v Speaker 1>of the United Nations. After independence, things really went wrong.

0:31:14.880 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 1>Its citizens were soon desperate to escape. A sleepy eyed

0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:22.640
<v Speaker 1>man mass Nuguema won the elections. The shy son of

0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:24.680
<v Speaker 1>a reverend and a brutal witch doctor known as his

0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:27.920
<v Speaker 1>saintly father, Massias did badly at Catholic mission schools, but

0:31:27.960 --> 0:31:30.520
<v Speaker 1>took up jobs as a junior bureaucrat and a coffee farmer,

0:31:30.760 --> 0:31:33.400
<v Speaker 1>jen then as a court interpreter, and subsequently as mayor

0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:35.800
<v Speaker 1>of a small town. He became an influential leader within

0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:38.600
<v Speaker 1>an important subgroup of the Fang, the country's most populous

0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:40.880
<v Speaker 1>ethnic group, and was groomed for office by a few

0:31:40.880 --> 0:31:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Spaniards who believed he would serve their interests. So this

0:31:44.920 --> 0:31:48.360
<v Speaker 1>isn't a great start for independence. For Equatorial Guinea and

0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:50.800
<v Speaker 1>it's it's not going to be a great continuance. So

0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:53.720
<v Speaker 1>I found another book called Double Paradox by Andrew Wedeman

0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:56.560
<v Speaker 1>that explains that Macias largely wound up in power due

0:31:56.600 --> 0:32:00.160
<v Speaker 1>to his ability to charm Spanish colonial officers. What him

0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:02.440
<v Speaker 1>in notes that he impressed them with his willingness to

0:32:02.480 --> 0:32:05.680
<v Speaker 1>treat other Guineans with contempt um, which is kind of

0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:08.000
<v Speaker 1>the same story as idi Amine. The British liked him

0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:10.800
<v Speaker 1>because he was good at cracking down on other like

0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Africans who tried to get independence from England um, and

0:32:14.800 --> 0:32:17.040
<v Speaker 1>they were like, Okay, this guy we can probably trust.

0:32:17.760 --> 0:32:20.160
<v Speaker 1>But it turns out that macy has hated Spain too

0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 1>due to having to lick their boots for years, and

0:32:22.360 --> 0:32:24.400
<v Speaker 1>as soon as he was in power, he like fucked

0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:27.240
<v Speaker 1>them over and took every action he could do uproot

0:32:27.320 --> 0:32:31.200
<v Speaker 1>any uproot any local industry that benefited Spanish companies. Uh.

0:32:31.280 --> 0:32:33.680
<v Speaker 1>He formed a children's militia and used it to harass

0:32:33.720 --> 0:32:37.800
<v Speaker 1>all the remaining white people out of Equatorial Guinea. And

0:32:37.840 --> 0:32:40.840
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't necessarily sound too bad with the exception, but

0:32:40.880 --> 0:32:43.800
<v Speaker 1>the problem is that like again, the whole economy of

0:32:43.840 --> 0:32:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Equatorial Guinemy had been. Guinea had been based around these

0:32:46.520 --> 0:32:49.840
<v Speaker 1>these cocoa plantations, and he kicks out everyone who knows

0:32:49.960 --> 0:32:53.400
<v Speaker 1>how to operate and run them, um, and he nationalizes them.

0:32:53.400 --> 0:32:56.080
<v Speaker 1>But rather than higher locals to run them, he brings

0:32:56.080 --> 0:32:58.760
<v Speaker 1>in cheaper Nigerian workers to run the fields because he

0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:01.000
<v Speaker 1>wants to make all of the profit it's from them.

0:33:01.120 --> 0:33:05.360
<v Speaker 1>Um and yeah, so it's like he he completely uproots

0:33:05.360 --> 0:33:09.040
<v Speaker 1>the entire economy overnight. Um and that is not a

0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:13.000
<v Speaker 1>great thing to do, uh from an economics point of view.

0:33:13.600 --> 0:33:16.720
<v Speaker 1>H Macy has also ordered the entire nation's retail sectors

0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:18.960
<v Speaker 1>shut down and replaced it by a new network of

0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:22.840
<v Speaker 1>state run stores. This left another fifteen thousand native retail

0:33:22.920 --> 0:33:25.920
<v Speaker 1>workers out of a job. The country each entered into

0:33:25.960 --> 0:33:28.040
<v Speaker 1>a terrible recession, which was made worse by the fact

0:33:28.080 --> 0:33:31.760
<v Speaker 1>that Macis gave his best friend monopoly on all international trade.

0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:34.640
<v Speaker 1>Prices for food imports stared out of the budgets of

0:33:34.640 --> 0:33:38.000
<v Speaker 1>most actual Guineons. It became impossible to import the spare

0:33:38.040 --> 0:33:40.200
<v Speaker 1>parts for the machinery that made the nation run and

0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:43.760
<v Speaker 1>made its cocoa plantations function. The electrical grid failed and

0:33:43.800 --> 0:33:46.440
<v Speaker 1>the roads were eaten by the jungle, So he just

0:33:46.560 --> 0:33:49.880
<v Speaker 1>like what little the Spanish had done to set up

0:33:50.080 --> 0:33:54.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, infrastructure, He just bulldozes and suddenly everyone's out

0:33:54.120 --> 0:33:56.360
<v Speaker 1>of a job. No one has any money and no

0:33:56.400 --> 0:33:59.240
<v Speaker 1>one can buy any food, um, which is not a

0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:02.440
<v Speaker 1>great job. Up, I would say, I don't want to

0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:07.320
<v Speaker 1>back seat dictator of Equatorial Guinea here. Yeah, it's bad.

0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Do you want to know? Yeah? And I and I

0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:11.319
<v Speaker 1>really need you to take an ad break, But I

0:34:11.360 --> 0:34:13.640
<v Speaker 1>don't know how to do a witty transition after that.

0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:17.880
<v Speaker 1>So could you just like do an ad break? You know,

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:21.839
<v Speaker 1>who won't give their best friend a monopoly on all

0:34:21.880 --> 0:34:26.000
<v Speaker 1>international trade that makes food import impossible and leads to

0:34:26.080 --> 0:34:32.600
<v Speaker 1>widespread famine. Yeah, our sponsors won't do that. Maybe, I

0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:41.640
<v Speaker 1>mean historically we should probably just roll the ads. We're

0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:45.280
<v Speaker 1>back uh And and yeah, we're talking about Equatorial Guinea

0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:47.960
<v Speaker 1>and its first few years of independence, which don't go great.

0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:51.239
<v Speaker 1>So the people of Equatorial Guinea could clearly see that

0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:53.959
<v Speaker 1>a calamity had been visited upon them by their new leader,

0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:56.600
<v Speaker 1>and Macy has deflected blame for it by claiming his

0:34:56.600 --> 0:34:59.360
<v Speaker 1>political opponents had attempted a coup. He launched a vicious

0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:02.000
<v Speaker 1>terror camp paying against his own people, which sucked the

0:35:02.040 --> 0:35:05.000
<v Speaker 1>economy up more uh and led to him confiscating the

0:35:05.040 --> 0:35:08.040
<v Speaker 1>property of thousands upon thousands of citizens and putting it

0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:11.480
<v Speaker 1>in the hands of himself. One third of the population

0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:14.120
<v Speaker 1>was killed or fled the country in just a couple

0:35:14.120 --> 0:35:20.320
<v Speaker 1>of years, um, which is a lot of the country. Uh. Yeah,

0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:23.520
<v Speaker 1>so that's not great. Uh. Macy has instituted a new

0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:26.280
<v Speaker 1>set of internal travel restrictions to try and stop people

0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:28.480
<v Speaker 1>from fleeing the country. Um. But the only way you

0:35:28.480 --> 0:35:30.040
<v Speaker 1>can think of to do this was to create a

0:35:30.080 --> 0:35:34.240
<v Speaker 1>massive series of burdensome checkpoints, and this made domestic trade

0:35:34.239 --> 0:35:38.520
<v Speaker 1>impossible within the country itself. Mac has also ordered all

0:35:38.719 --> 0:35:41.960
<v Speaker 1>ordered all ships, boats and canoes impounded, which destroyed the

0:35:42.000 --> 0:35:45.840
<v Speaker 1>fishing industry overnight and ended the population's access to protein.

0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Mac has sold fishing rights to the Soviets instead and

0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:52.200
<v Speaker 1>pocketed the money from this while his people starved. By

0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:55.320
<v Speaker 1>the early nineteen seventies, Equatorial Guinea was a failed state

0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:58.239
<v Speaker 1>by any reasonable definition of the term. The people who

0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:00.759
<v Speaker 1>had once enjoyed at least a decent standard of living,

0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:05.000
<v Speaker 1>we're starving and forced into subsistence agriculture. The state bureaucracy collapsed.

0:36:05.000 --> 0:36:07.279
<v Speaker 1>Since there was no food to buy, government workers had

0:36:07.280 --> 0:36:09.120
<v Speaker 1>to leave their posts in order to fill their bellies.

0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:11.759
<v Speaker 1>In order to stop the exodus, Macias ordered the only

0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:14.839
<v Speaker 1>road out of the capital. Mind. Yeah, he's not good

0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:19.040
<v Speaker 1>at leading a country. Uh not great. And again this

0:36:19.080 --> 0:36:22.080
<v Speaker 1>is the guy, Like it's one of those things. This

0:36:22.160 --> 0:36:24.400
<v Speaker 1>is the guy who this guy only comes to power

0:36:24.440 --> 0:36:27.360
<v Speaker 1>because Spain puts him in power because they're too lazy

0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:30.879
<v Speaker 1>to like do a proper job of giving up this colony,

0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:33.280
<v Speaker 1>so they just put the guy who's best at kissing

0:36:33.280 --> 0:36:35.280
<v Speaker 1>acid in charge and he turns out to be a monster,

0:36:35.680 --> 0:36:40.440
<v Speaker 1>which happens repeatedly in Africa in the period as colonialism, like,

0:36:40.719 --> 0:36:43.160
<v Speaker 1>uh departs it, Like this is kind of what they

0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:46.880
<v Speaker 1>all did. I have a question, yea, yeah, please, I

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:50.280
<v Speaker 1>guess I feel like when it comes to dictators people,

0:36:50.680 --> 0:36:52.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. I am not

0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:55.600
<v Speaker 1>a I'm not a dictatorship expert, but I feel like

0:36:56.000 --> 0:36:58.759
<v Speaker 1>people are more willing to be okay with it if

0:36:58.840 --> 0:37:01.880
<v Speaker 1>like the trains run on time, our roads are we

0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:06.080
<v Speaker 1>have food. It seems like having someone who is this

0:37:06.200 --> 0:37:10.719
<v Speaker 1>shitty like being like making these kinds of changes that

0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:13.560
<v Speaker 1>really fuck over the average person like that that that

0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:16.719
<v Speaker 1>seems so different from what I from what I have

0:37:16.880 --> 0:37:19.120
<v Speaker 1>come to, no one loved that dictators I guess I

0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:22.000
<v Speaker 1>feel like my understanding is that, like, oh, when someone's

0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:25.000
<v Speaker 1>a fucking ship head, people are willing to overlook it

0:37:25.040 --> 0:37:28.080
<v Speaker 1>if they if their lives are either made better or

0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:30.800
<v Speaker 1>not significantly changed. And it seems like in this case

0:37:30.840 --> 0:37:33.919
<v Speaker 1>their lives were made much worse. This is what gets

0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:36.319
<v Speaker 1>us into like the truth of that is that in

0:37:36.360 --> 0:37:39.040
<v Speaker 1>almost all dictatorships, you know, you get the odd exception,

0:37:39.040 --> 0:37:41.440
<v Speaker 1>there's guys like Tito who like Tito was a monster.

0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:44.840
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I've spent a lot of time in former

0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Yugoslavia and a lot of old people think back to

0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Tito fondly because things went so shitty after his he died.

0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:54.600
<v Speaker 1>But like, as a general rule, particularly when you're talking

0:37:54.640 --> 0:37:56.840
<v Speaker 1>about like dictators who like come into power with a

0:37:56.880 --> 0:37:59.640
<v Speaker 1>lot of popular support, it's popular support from one specific

0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:02.399
<v Speaker 1>group of people, and it's one specific group of people

0:38:02.440 --> 0:38:04.759
<v Speaker 1>who does well. You know, in Germany's case, we all

0:38:04.800 --> 0:38:07.960
<v Speaker 1>know what that specific group of people was, and in

0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:10.399
<v Speaker 1>in in Equatorial Guinea's case, there is a specific group

0:38:10.440 --> 0:38:12.759
<v Speaker 1>of people the largest ethnic group in the country are

0:38:12.800 --> 0:38:14.759
<v Speaker 1>the Fang, which is like the same tribe that he

0:38:14.880 --> 0:38:17.200
<v Speaker 1>is a member of, and they do pretty well under

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:21.200
<v Speaker 1>this um because they get preferential treatment. They're able to

0:38:21.800 --> 0:38:24.120
<v Speaker 1>like they kick out like like he they like he

0:38:24.160 --> 0:38:27.040
<v Speaker 1>executes genocides against like the Igbo and a couple of

0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:30.239
<v Speaker 1>other different tribal people's in Equatorial Guinea, and all of

0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:32.760
<v Speaker 1>their stuff gets given to like members of his tribe.

0:38:32.800 --> 0:38:36.400
<v Speaker 1>So like the largest most Equatorial Guinea ands suffer, but

0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:39.560
<v Speaker 1>the largest single group of them does pretty well because

0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:41.520
<v Speaker 1>they're able to take shipped from the other people who

0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:44.960
<v Speaker 1>are suffering. And that's kind of the story of dictatorships.

0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:47.560
<v Speaker 1>That's really what happens. And we talk about what people

0:38:47.560 --> 0:38:50.000
<v Speaker 1>talk about things going well, it's more often that like no, no,

0:38:50.160 --> 0:38:52.920
<v Speaker 1>your specific group was the group that things went pretty

0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:55.560
<v Speaker 1>well for because the guy in charge stole things from

0:38:55.560 --> 0:39:00.440
<v Speaker 1>everyone else to give to you, like yeah, um, And

0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:02.560
<v Speaker 1>that's kind of what happens in Equatorial Guinea. Is like

0:39:02.600 --> 0:39:04.880
<v Speaker 1>the Fang do all right, at least at first, the

0:39:04.880 --> 0:39:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Fang do all right because he's just taking shipped from

0:39:07.200 --> 0:39:10.680
<v Speaker 1>everybody else and giving it to them. One Swedish researcher

0:39:10.680 --> 0:39:13.480
<v Speaker 1>who managed to sneak into Equatorial Guinea during this period

0:39:13.520 --> 0:39:17.040
<v Speaker 1>called it the Dako of Africa. Everyone else just called

0:39:17.040 --> 0:39:20.000
<v Speaker 1>it Death's waiting Room, a name that became more relevant

0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:22.840
<v Speaker 1>when Macias banned Western medicine, leading to a resurgence of

0:39:22.920 --> 0:39:27.160
<v Speaker 1>leprosy among other illnesses. As his nation crumbled, Mass lost

0:39:27.200 --> 0:39:29.880
<v Speaker 1>his mind. He began seeing coup plotters in every corner,

0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:32.720
<v Speaker 1>and he executed people almost as random and an attempt

0:39:32.719 --> 0:39:36.200
<v Speaker 1>to keep them at bay. During one Christmas mass execution

0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:39.560
<v Speaker 1>at a sports stadium in the capital, Malabo, Palace, guards

0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:41.920
<v Speaker 1>shot a hundred and fifty people to death while the

0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:44.680
<v Speaker 1>song those were the days my friend played on an

0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:49.000
<v Speaker 1>endless loop, which is one of the most nightmarish things

0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:56.880
<v Speaker 1>I can imagine. Yeah, yeah, yeah um. One survivor of

0:39:56.920 --> 0:39:59.240
<v Speaker 1>the horror later wrote, quote no food in the shops,

0:39:59.280 --> 0:40:02.000
<v Speaker 1>no water, no electricity, no kerosene for the lamps, and

0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:04.920
<v Speaker 1>night we walked in blackness. Yes, for eleven years we

0:40:05.000 --> 0:40:08.560
<v Speaker 1>walked in blackness. Uh. The Wonga cou by Adam Roberts

0:40:08.560 --> 0:40:12.320
<v Speaker 1>goes on to note quote nightclubs include in schools. Closed

0:40:12.360 --> 0:40:15.160
<v Speaker 1>missionaries were chased from the country. Masist like Paul pot

0:40:15.160 --> 0:40:18.160
<v Speaker 1>and Cambodia launched a campaign against the educated, and they

0:40:18.200 --> 0:40:21.760
<v Speaker 1>began to disappear. He banned the word intellectual once finding

0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:23.920
<v Speaker 1>a minister who used it at a cabinet meeting. He

0:40:23.960 --> 0:40:27.359
<v Speaker 1>called educated people the greatest problem facing Africa today. They

0:40:27.360 --> 0:40:30.520
<v Speaker 1>are polluting our climate with foreign culture. He declared himself

0:40:30.600 --> 0:40:33.040
<v Speaker 1>President for life, then renamed the island part of the

0:40:33.040 --> 0:40:36.719
<v Speaker 1>country after himself. He adopted new titles, each more eccentric

0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:39.840
<v Speaker 1>than the last major General of the armed forces, Great

0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Maestro of Popular Education, Science and Traditional Culture, the only

0:40:44.120 --> 0:40:48.040
<v Speaker 1>Miracle of Equatorial Guinea. He ordered teachers and priests to

0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:51.200
<v Speaker 1>promote his cult of personality. School Children chanted that Macis

0:40:51.200 --> 0:40:54.000
<v Speaker 1>alone had freed the country from imperial Spanish rule. The

0:40:54.040 --> 0:40:56.880
<v Speaker 1>sanctuary of every church was to show his portrait. Priests

0:40:56.920 --> 0:41:00.279
<v Speaker 1>read out messages venerating the insecure. Presidents such as God

0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:04.320
<v Speaker 1>created Equatorial Guinea thanks to Macias. Without Macist, Equatorial Guinea

0:41:04.360 --> 0:41:07.760
<v Speaker 1>would not exist. Some of the people were nominally Christian,

0:41:07.840 --> 0:41:12.120
<v Speaker 1>but he eventually forced church's shut. So he's not not great.

0:41:12.680 --> 0:41:16.560
<v Speaker 1>I keep making that point, right, Like he had kids

0:41:16.640 --> 0:41:19.719
<v Speaker 1>chanting the ship at school. Yeah, it's it's it's bad.

0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:22.960
<v Speaker 1>It goes bad in Equatorial Guinea and Macie for an

0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:25.840
<v Speaker 1>example of how bad it goes Macias was almost certainly

0:41:25.840 --> 0:41:28.640
<v Speaker 1>a cannibal. But that's not even really worth talking about

0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:30.520
<v Speaker 1>because the fact that he ate people was like one

0:41:30.560 --> 0:41:34.800
<v Speaker 1>of the least shitty things about him, Like he's he's like, yeah,

0:41:35.120 --> 0:41:38.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, is bad, but it's like, well, he eats people,

0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:42.320
<v Speaker 1>but there's so many other things. That's what we have,

0:41:42.440 --> 0:41:49.719
<v Speaker 1>so many other problems. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So he was

0:41:49.800 --> 0:41:54.160
<v Speaker 1>so good at killing basically everyone, um who didn't agree

0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:56.799
<v Speaker 1>with him or like him, that there was basically no

0:41:57.040 --> 0:42:00.480
<v Speaker 1>organized society and Equatorial guinety Guinea for a rebellion to

0:42:00.560 --> 0:42:03.400
<v Speaker 1>even form. In If there was ever a nation in

0:42:03.480 --> 0:42:06.840
<v Speaker 1>desperate need of a foreign backed coup, it was Equatorial Guinea.

0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:09.640
<v Speaker 1>And unfortunately the coup they got was not the one

0:42:09.680 --> 0:42:13.680
<v Speaker 1>they deserved. Uh. And again, like if you're talking about, like,

0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:16.879
<v Speaker 1>as I think we've established, it's always problematic to talk

0:42:16.920 --> 0:42:19.880
<v Speaker 1>about foreign coups to overthrow governments, But this is the

0:42:19.880 --> 0:42:22.480
<v Speaker 1>guy who it's like, yeah, if you're gonna justify a coup,

0:42:22.520 --> 0:42:25.400
<v Speaker 1>it's against a guy like this, and it still doesn't

0:42:25.400 --> 0:42:28.319
<v Speaker 1>work out. So the man behind this coup was not

0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:32.040
<v Speaker 1>a grizzled mercenary. Instead, it was a former journalist and

0:42:32.080 --> 0:42:36.200
<v Speaker 1>novelist named Frederick Forsyth. Now, Frederick had reported to for

0:42:36.239 --> 0:42:38.680
<v Speaker 1>the BBC during the Nigerian Civil War, and he knew

0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:40.760
<v Speaker 1>a number of mercenaries as a result of his reporting

0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:44.040
<v Speaker 1>work in Africa. But the early nineteen seventies he transitioned

0:42:44.040 --> 0:42:46.480
<v Speaker 1>out of journalism and into a very successful career as

0:42:46.480 --> 0:42:49.400
<v Speaker 1>a fiction author. His most famous book was probably The

0:42:49.480 --> 0:42:51.839
<v Speaker 1>Day of the Jackal, which made him wealthy, and there's

0:42:51.840 --> 0:42:54.200
<v Speaker 1>a movie made out of the Day of the Jackal. Um.

0:42:54.239 --> 0:42:55.960
<v Speaker 1>There's a movie's made out of a lot of his books,

0:42:56.000 --> 0:42:59.520
<v Speaker 1>actually flesh with cash. Forsyth looked out at the sad

0:42:59.560 --> 0:43:01.799
<v Speaker 1>case of Tutorial Guinea and decided he was in a

0:43:01.840 --> 0:43:04.560
<v Speaker 1>position to do something about Masias. He sat down with

0:43:04.600 --> 0:43:07.520
<v Speaker 1>a mercenary friend of his and from his flattened Camden,

0:43:07.840 --> 0:43:10.560
<v Speaker 1>the two painstakingly plotted out a coup that would overthrow

0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:13.840
<v Speaker 1>Masias from power. The basic idea was to hire several

0:43:13.880 --> 0:43:16.800
<v Speaker 1>dozen former soldiers from Nigeria and paid them to capture

0:43:16.840 --> 0:43:19.080
<v Speaker 1>or kill the mad dictator and replace him with a

0:43:19.120 --> 0:43:22.440
<v Speaker 1>b Afrian politician who seemed amenable. The whole thing took

0:43:22.440 --> 0:43:25.040
<v Speaker 1>about five months to plan, and the affair was largely

0:43:25.080 --> 0:43:27.399
<v Speaker 1>an excuse for the now wealthy Forsyth to live out

0:43:27.440 --> 0:43:30.440
<v Speaker 1>his fantasies of being an international man of mystery. In

0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:33.480
<v Speaker 1>a later interview with Adam Roberts, he explained, quote, I

0:43:33.480 --> 0:43:36.680
<v Speaker 1>originally postulated a question to myself, would it be possible

0:43:36.719 --> 0:43:38.759
<v Speaker 1>for a group of paid and bought for mercenaries to

0:43:38.760 --> 0:43:41.279
<v Speaker 1>toppal the Republic? I thought, if the republic were weak

0:43:41.400 --> 0:43:44.839
<v Speaker 1>enough and power concentrated in one tyrant, then in theory yes.

0:43:45.200 --> 0:43:47.720
<v Speaker 1>I looked around and saw Fernando po and every story

0:43:47.719 --> 0:43:50.240
<v Speaker 1>about the country was gruesome. I didn't go there myself,

0:43:50.280 --> 0:43:52.000
<v Speaker 1>but I met businessmen and others who had been there,

0:43:52.000 --> 0:43:53.880
<v Speaker 1>and they told me this place was weird. So I

0:43:53.920 --> 0:43:56.239
<v Speaker 1>decided it could be done. If you storm the palace. Well,

0:43:56.280 --> 0:43:58.080
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't really a palace. It was the old Spanish

0:43:58.080 --> 0:44:01.239
<v Speaker 1>colonial governor's mansion. Probably by sunrise you could take over,

0:44:01.280 --> 0:44:04.000
<v Speaker 1>provided you have a substitute African president, and announced it

0:44:04.040 --> 0:44:07.880
<v Speaker 1>was an internal coda. I began to and I began

0:44:07.920 --> 0:44:10.319
<v Speaker 1>to explore the world of black market arms. Where do

0:44:10.360 --> 0:44:12.359
<v Speaker 1>you get a shipload of black market arms. I knew

0:44:12.400 --> 0:44:14.360
<v Speaker 1>nothing about it, so I dug around. I discovered the

0:44:14.360 --> 0:44:17.840
<v Speaker 1>capital was either Prague, where Omnipole, the communist arms dealer was,

0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:20.320
<v Speaker 1>but for that the client had to be cleared by Moscow.

0:44:20.440 --> 0:44:23.120
<v Speaker 1>Otherwise it was Hamburg. So off I went. I penetrated

0:44:23.200 --> 0:44:26.160
<v Speaker 1>under subterfuge using the South African name and developed my theme.

0:44:26.360 --> 0:44:29.680
<v Speaker 1>I attended conferences of black market freelance criminals and learned

0:44:29.719 --> 0:44:32.759
<v Speaker 1>about the curious end user certificates to identify those who

0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:35.240
<v Speaker 1>are entitled to use and buy weapons how they're forged

0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:41.000
<v Speaker 1>or purchased from corrupt African diplomats. So Forsyth will claim

0:44:41.040 --> 0:44:43.719
<v Speaker 1>to this day usually that he was just writing a

0:44:43.760 --> 0:44:46.440
<v Speaker 1>book about how to carry out a coup, and the

0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:49.680
<v Speaker 1>fact that someone attempted a coup in this country based

0:44:49.719 --> 0:44:52.880
<v Speaker 1>on his book was completely separate from it. But also

0:44:53.000 --> 0:44:55.920
<v Speaker 1>sometimes in interviews he'll admit that, like, oh, yeah, I was. I.

0:44:56.080 --> 0:44:57.960
<v Speaker 1>I was carrying out a coup from the beginning, and

0:44:57.960 --> 0:45:01.520
<v Speaker 1>I just wrote a book about it later. Um yeah,

0:45:01.719 --> 0:45:04.160
<v Speaker 1>So let me ask you then, who who is the

0:45:04.200 --> 0:45:06.919
<v Speaker 1>bastard here? If you like, which one of these people

0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:11.600
<v Speaker 1>as the bastard? They're both bastards. I do think in

0:45:11.640 --> 0:45:18.680
<v Speaker 1>a way macis is like it's tough because like obviously

0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:21.880
<v Speaker 1>he's a monster who kills tens of thousands of people.

0:45:22.239 --> 0:45:25.200
<v Speaker 1>But also there's something that's like almost a little bit

0:45:25.280 --> 0:45:27.480
<v Speaker 1>more unsettling to me about a guy who's just like

0:45:27.520 --> 0:45:30.200
<v Speaker 1>a rich novelist being like, my bet, I could overthrow

0:45:30.200 --> 0:45:33.520
<v Speaker 1>this country. It seems easy enough, like like that that's

0:45:33.560 --> 0:45:36.520
<v Speaker 1>his that he's not like they always throw in some

0:45:36.600 --> 0:45:39.040
<v Speaker 1>like little gibe about how, oh, it seems like the

0:45:39.040 --> 0:45:41.720
<v Speaker 1>dictators really bad there, but when you get a chance

0:45:41.719 --> 0:45:45.000
<v Speaker 1>to like read long interviews with them, like that's a sentence,

0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:46.440
<v Speaker 1>and then the rest of it is like, yeah, it

0:45:46.520 --> 0:45:48.839
<v Speaker 1>really seems easy and fun. And I was interested in

0:45:48.840 --> 0:45:51.239
<v Speaker 1>this and this and this, like the whole The fact

0:45:51.320 --> 0:45:54.360
<v Speaker 1>that a terrible dictator was in charge of Equatorial Guinea

0:45:54.440 --> 0:45:57.920
<v Speaker 1>was like three percent of why they did it was

0:45:58.160 --> 0:46:03.120
<v Speaker 1>it seemed fun. So I have one more question in

0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:07.279
<v Speaker 1>your life, in your do you feel like how what

0:46:07.520 --> 0:46:10.040
<v Speaker 1>percentage of ship like that do you feel like comes

0:46:10.080 --> 0:46:12.640
<v Speaker 1>down to, oh, it was it seemed fun. I do

0:46:12.760 --> 0:46:15.160
<v Speaker 1>feel like when you hear about all the terrible ship

0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:17.000
<v Speaker 1>that goes on in our world, so often it comes

0:46:17.000 --> 0:46:19.520
<v Speaker 1>down to like, oh, we wanted, like, yeah, we wanted

0:46:19.560 --> 0:46:21.840
<v Speaker 1>the money, you want to control whatever, whatever, But also

0:46:22.200 --> 0:46:24.880
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't it be fucking fun? Like I do feel like

0:46:24.880 --> 0:46:27.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot of these guys are are are doing this

0:46:27.480 --> 0:46:32.520
<v Speaker 1>because they want the excitement and the fun. Yeah. No, no, no,

0:46:32.560 --> 0:46:35.600
<v Speaker 1>not at all. And like one of the problems that

0:46:35.640 --> 0:46:37.320
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna have to tackle if we're ever going to

0:46:37.400 --> 0:46:41.040
<v Speaker 1>have a more peaceful society is how to how to

0:46:41.080 --> 0:46:44.840
<v Speaker 1>give young young men in particular and really young white

0:46:44.840 --> 0:46:47.560
<v Speaker 1>men and most particular though it's all young men like

0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:52.680
<v Speaker 1>something to do that is exciting and feels meaningful and

0:46:52.760 --> 0:46:55.399
<v Speaker 1>might kill them, but doesn't involve them fucking up other

0:46:55.400 --> 0:46:58.640
<v Speaker 1>people's lives. Um, because a lot of us need that.

0:46:58.760 --> 0:47:00.400
<v Speaker 1>It's not all of us, but like fun. I mean,

0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:03.600
<v Speaker 1>I I've I've I've bought multiple plane tickets to war

0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:05.360
<v Speaker 1>zones that I would be lying if I said that

0:47:05.400 --> 0:47:07.480
<v Speaker 1>a part of it wasn't Like, yeah, that sounds like fun,

0:47:07.960 --> 0:47:10.120
<v Speaker 1>like like going through that experience. Now, I didn't try

0:47:10.160 --> 0:47:13.120
<v Speaker 1>to overthrow no countries, but it is a thing you

0:47:13.200 --> 0:47:16.920
<v Speaker 1>have to grapple with. Yeah, well, if you lived in Washington,

0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:20.160
<v Speaker 1>d C. There's a very obvious avenue available to you

0:47:20.239 --> 0:47:24.239
<v Speaker 1>and that is join an illegal dirt biking because you

0:47:24.280 --> 0:47:26.600
<v Speaker 1>don't wear a helmet, you don't have insurance. Your head

0:47:26.640 --> 0:47:29.920
<v Speaker 1>is so close to the pavement it's dangerous. But yeah,

0:47:30.080 --> 0:47:34.520
<v Speaker 1>it's not you're not you're not overthrowing anything, you know. Yeah,

0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:38.680
<v Speaker 1>we need to somehow make rugby more high stakes, yeah,

0:47:38.840 --> 0:47:42.520
<v Speaker 1>or have one of those. Yeah, there's there's it's tough.

0:47:42.680 --> 0:47:44.800
<v Speaker 1>Like maybe we could just pick like one of the

0:47:44.880 --> 0:47:47.279
<v Speaker 1>states we don't like and let anyone who wants to

0:47:47.360 --> 0:47:50.000
<v Speaker 1>go go fight a war there, like we just declare,

0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:56.399
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, let's say here, um Florida, Iowa, Florida, Florida. Yeah,

0:47:56.480 --> 0:48:00.279
<v Speaker 1>that's the state Florida. Yeah, of course Florida. Florida is

0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:02.560
<v Speaker 1>a war now. And if you really need that in

0:48:02.600 --> 0:48:04.359
<v Speaker 1>your life, you can go to Florida and you can

0:48:04.400 --> 0:48:07.120
<v Speaker 1>have your war in Florida. We'll call it Warida. It'll

0:48:07.160 --> 0:48:10.920
<v Speaker 1>be it'll be fine. Very little will actually change about

0:48:11.000 --> 0:48:14.719
<v Speaker 1>daily life and most of that state. In Iowa. He

0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:16.719
<v Speaker 1>didn't mean it. He didn't mean it Iowa. He he

0:48:17.080 --> 0:48:21.480
<v Speaker 1>meant for I meant it. We love your corn Iowa,

0:48:21.680 --> 0:48:24.920
<v Speaker 1>We love your corn Iowa. We need a war state

0:48:25.120 --> 0:48:27.240
<v Speaker 1>to to get some of this energy out of people.

0:48:27.280 --> 0:48:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Paintball is not doing it for folks. Um. So yeah, yeah,

0:48:34.880 --> 0:48:39.399
<v Speaker 1>So this fucking fiction author Frederick Forsyth like starts quote

0:48:39.440 --> 0:48:43.080
<v Speaker 1>unquote researching his book uh and at the same time,

0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:46.440
<v Speaker 1>a group of mercenaries led by his friend that he

0:48:46.640 --> 0:48:51.520
<v Speaker 1>planned this book with, get hired um and like they

0:48:51.040 --> 0:48:54.480
<v Speaker 1>they they charter a boat and they like start sailing

0:48:55.080 --> 0:48:58.000
<v Speaker 1>uh through like to Equatorial Guinea to carry out a coup.

0:48:58.000 --> 0:48:59.719
<v Speaker 1>Now this doesn't work out. They don't even get to

0:48:59.800 --> 0:49:03.440
<v Speaker 1>land end the British intelligence catches onto them and Gibraltar

0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:05.680
<v Speaker 1>and tips off Spanish authorities who arrest them in the

0:49:05.719 --> 0:49:09.520
<v Speaker 1>Canary Islands. The coup gets called off um and it

0:49:09.640 --> 0:49:13.360
<v Speaker 1>never actually happens. But the very next year, Frederick Forsyth

0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:16.360
<v Speaker 1>published another book called The Dogs of War, about a

0:49:16.400 --> 0:49:18.960
<v Speaker 1>group of European mercenaries who carry out a coup against

0:49:18.960 --> 0:49:21.760
<v Speaker 1>a brutal island dictator, and the book bore a striking

0:49:21.760 --> 0:49:24.120
<v Speaker 1>resemblance to all of the planning for the failed nineteen

0:49:24.160 --> 0:49:27.520
<v Speaker 1>seventy three coup, and like very little of the book

0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:30.360
<v Speaker 1>actually involved any action or fighting or the coup itself.

0:49:30.400 --> 0:49:33.279
<v Speaker 1>Almost all of it was just a detailed step by

0:49:33.320 --> 0:49:36.279
<v Speaker 1>step guide to how to Like, here's how we go

0:49:36.320 --> 0:49:38.640
<v Speaker 1>about getting end users cer certificates. Here's how we go

0:49:38.680 --> 0:49:41.640
<v Speaker 1>about buying weaponry. Here's how we go about transporting that weaponry.

0:49:41.680 --> 0:49:43.880
<v Speaker 1>Here's how we charted the boat. Here's how we hired

0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:47.520
<v Speaker 1>all these mercenaries. Like it's it's famously still seen today,

0:49:47.680 --> 0:49:49.799
<v Speaker 1>is like a step by step guide for how to

0:49:49.880 --> 0:49:53.080
<v Speaker 1>carry out a coup. Um and rumors began to swirl

0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:56.600
<v Speaker 1>after this that Frederick forsythe Sythe had attempted to overthrow

0:49:56.640 --> 0:49:59.239
<v Speaker 1>the government of Equatorial Guinea and then written a fictionalized

0:49:59.239 --> 0:50:03.000
<v Speaker 1>account of his act Um. In nineteen eighty the book

0:50:03.040 --> 0:50:06.720
<v Speaker 1>was made into a movie with Christopher Walkin. Um Yeah.

0:50:08.400 --> 0:50:11.200
<v Speaker 1>In two thousands six, Frederick Forsyth all but admitted to

0:50:11.239 --> 0:50:13.680
<v Speaker 1>an interviewer that he had in fact planned and failed

0:50:13.680 --> 0:50:16.600
<v Speaker 1>to execute a coup to overthrow Masius. His book became

0:50:16.600 --> 0:50:20.120
<v Speaker 1>a hit among mercenaries, in particular in Bob Denard's successful

0:50:20.200 --> 0:50:22.520
<v Speaker 1>coup off of the coast of East Africa, all of

0:50:22.560 --> 0:50:24.880
<v Speaker 1>the men he's carried into battle had copies of the

0:50:24.920 --> 0:50:27.480
<v Speaker 1>French translation of The Dogs of War in their back pocket.

0:50:28.160 --> 0:50:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Um so again, they're like, that's part of why I

0:50:31.440 --> 0:50:33.680
<v Speaker 1>started this with like King Solomon's Minds is that like

0:50:34.480 --> 0:50:37.400
<v Speaker 1>The Dogs of War is really like the modern retelling

0:50:37.440 --> 0:50:39.320
<v Speaker 1>of that. We're like, okay, we're just gonna make this

0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:43.000
<v Speaker 1>all about the coup um. That's the real money shot.

0:50:43.640 --> 0:50:48.760
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that's cool, that's cool. Yeah, I think that's

0:50:48.760 --> 0:50:51.399
<v Speaker 1>who I like that. I also think it just goes

0:50:51.440 --> 0:50:55.799
<v Speaker 1>to show you, like what like culture, like books and

0:50:55.880 --> 0:50:58.400
<v Speaker 1>movies and all of that really makes a difference of

0:50:58.480 --> 0:51:01.320
<v Speaker 1>like how things play out. You know. I think you

0:51:01.360 --> 0:51:03.240
<v Speaker 1>could you could easily be like, oh, it's just a book,

0:51:03.239 --> 0:51:05.600
<v Speaker 1>it was just a book, but clearly that's not the case.

0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:07.640
<v Speaker 1>I think that these things really matter and they can

0:51:07.680 --> 0:51:11.080
<v Speaker 1>really make an imprint on how things go down in history. Yeah.

0:51:11.280 --> 0:51:13.520
<v Speaker 1>I think this has inspired me to write a book

0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:16.120
<v Speaker 1>about how a fictional cult fins off the f d

0:51:16.239 --> 0:51:18.799
<v Speaker 1>A and the Mountains of Idaho and use the proceeds

0:51:18.800 --> 0:51:20.880
<v Speaker 1>from that book to buy a compound in the mountains

0:51:20.920 --> 0:51:25.360
<v Speaker 1>of Idaho and then launch a health and beauty network

0:51:25.440 --> 0:51:28.520
<v Speaker 1>that gets the FDA brought down on us. Are you

0:51:28.680 --> 0:51:31.600
<v Speaker 1>currently trying to start a cult that and I misremembering this,

0:51:32.000 --> 0:51:38.160
<v Speaker 1>you know most of the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, more

0:51:38.239 --> 0:51:41.680
<v Speaker 1>or less, you know, I mean, I told him he could, like,

0:51:41.719 --> 0:51:45.719
<v Speaker 1>it's fine, start a cult. Why not if you sign

0:51:45.760 --> 0:51:50.120
<v Speaker 1>off as long as no dogs are harmed, it's fine

0:51:51.560 --> 0:51:55.439
<v Speaker 1>almost certainly, not probably. And on that note, Robert, it's

0:51:55.480 --> 0:52:00.880
<v Speaker 1>break time. Oh it is. Yeah. Well, speaking of coup's,

0:52:01.680 --> 0:52:06.959
<v Speaker 1>here's a product coup that was not your best work,

0:52:07.120 --> 0:52:10.799
<v Speaker 1>but along with some services. Yeah that wasn't that didn't

0:52:10.800 --> 0:52:21.760
<v Speaker 1>work out. Great, we are back, okay, So yeah. Mass

0:52:21.880 --> 0:52:25.799
<v Speaker 1>Protect remained in power until August of nineteen seventy nine,

0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:29.400
<v Speaker 1>when a coup finally unseated him. No Europeans were involved. Instead,

0:52:29.440 --> 0:52:32.399
<v Speaker 1>the culprit was his nephew, Obiang, who Macias had put

0:52:32.400 --> 0:52:35.520
<v Speaker 1>in charge of notorious Black Beach Prison, where regime enemies

0:52:35.560 --> 0:52:39.040
<v Speaker 1>and random people were tortured to death. Obiang was spurred

0:52:39.080 --> 0:52:41.960
<v Speaker 1>into action when his uncle's mismanagement got so bad that

0:52:42.000 --> 0:52:44.920
<v Speaker 1>the army could no longer pay wages. When representatives of

0:52:44.960 --> 0:52:47.640
<v Speaker 1>the military asked the president for money, Maci has had

0:52:47.680 --> 0:52:50.400
<v Speaker 1>them all executed, including some officers who were members of

0:52:50.440 --> 0:52:53.600
<v Speaker 1>the royal family. This spirit Obiang into action, and a

0:52:53.640 --> 0:52:56.480
<v Speaker 1>brief civil war was the result. Obiang obviously had the

0:52:56.520 --> 0:52:59.360
<v Speaker 1>support of most of the military. His uncle resisted for

0:52:59.360 --> 0:53:02.040
<v Speaker 1>a time than largely largely to Cuban and North Korean

0:53:02.040 --> 0:53:04.880
<v Speaker 1>officers who backed up his forces, but eventually Macias was

0:53:04.920 --> 0:53:06.920
<v Speaker 1>forced out of his palace and into a small jungle

0:53:07.000 --> 0:53:10.760
<v Speaker 1>village named Mongomo. There he hid the entire national treasury

0:53:10.800 --> 0:53:13.400
<v Speaker 1>somewhere between sixty and a hundred and fifty million dollars

0:53:13.560 --> 0:53:17.320
<v Speaker 1>in what is generally described as a wooden hut. Obiang attacked,

0:53:17.320 --> 0:53:19.000
<v Speaker 1>and in the battle that followed, the hut was set

0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:22.560
<v Speaker 1>on fire and the entire nation's foreign currency reserves were incinerated.

0:53:23.080 --> 0:53:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Masius fled again, but he was eventually arrested and brought

0:53:25.680 --> 0:53:28.359
<v Speaker 1>back to the capital of Mlabo. Obiang took over from

0:53:28.360 --> 0:53:31.000
<v Speaker 1>his uncle and convened a court in Mlabo's largest building,

0:53:31.080 --> 0:53:33.840
<v Speaker 1>the Old Cinema. The former dictator was hung from a

0:53:33.880 --> 0:53:36.000
<v Speaker 1>cage attached to the ceiling. He and a number of

0:53:36.000 --> 0:53:38.840
<v Speaker 1>flunkeys were charged with genocide, mass murder, treason, and a

0:53:38.880 --> 0:53:41.160
<v Speaker 1>litany of other crimes, and may have been the first

0:53:41.160 --> 0:53:43.200
<v Speaker 1>time in history that a head of state was actually

0:53:43.280 --> 0:53:46.960
<v Speaker 1>charged with genocide anywhere in the world. Macias was quickly

0:53:46.960 --> 0:53:50.800
<v Speaker 1>convicted and executed, and evidence that inconveniently implicated his nephew

0:53:50.800 --> 0:53:53.680
<v Speaker 1>Obiang and regime crimes was ignored by the court. In

0:53:53.680 --> 0:53:55.239
<v Speaker 1>a better world, this would have been the start of

0:53:55.280 --> 0:53:57.879
<v Speaker 1>a period of healing for Equatorial Guinea. But we live

0:53:57.920 --> 0:54:00.120
<v Speaker 1>in this world and things only went from bad is

0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:02.640
<v Speaker 1>slightly less bad, but still more or less the same.

0:54:03.000 --> 0:54:06.000
<v Speaker 1>And I'm gonna quote now from the book Double Paradox quote.

0:54:06.680 --> 0:54:09.920
<v Speaker 1>If anything, the plundering worsened as international aids started to

0:54:09.960 --> 0:54:13.040
<v Speaker 1>flow in and efforts to rehabilitate the exports sector began.

0:54:13.200 --> 0:54:15.399
<v Speaker 1>Obiong and his inner circle, most of whom were either

0:54:15.440 --> 0:54:18.600
<v Speaker 1>members of his immediate family or fellow klansmen, grabbed whatever

0:54:18.640 --> 0:54:22.320
<v Speaker 1>they could. Companies seeking government contracts and concessions were informed

0:54:22.360 --> 0:54:25.160
<v Speaker 1>that they had to pay bribes and kickbacks to senior officials.

0:54:25.400 --> 0:54:28.040
<v Speaker 1>The amounts demanded were often so high that many would

0:54:28.080 --> 0:54:31.680
<v Speaker 1>be investors quit the country soon after arriving. Obiong privatized

0:54:31.719 --> 0:54:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Macias estate farms, but then either took them over himself

0:54:34.640 --> 0:54:37.120
<v Speaker 1>or gave them to his henchman. Petty corruption among street

0:54:37.200 --> 0:54:40.520
<v Speaker 1>level bureaucrats continued unabated. The one time thugs and killers

0:54:40.520 --> 0:54:42.920
<v Speaker 1>of the Macist era thus morphed into a new regime

0:54:42.960 --> 0:54:46.600
<v Speaker 1>of tropical gangsters, under which the Equatorial guineaon economy remained

0:54:46.600 --> 0:54:49.600
<v Speaker 1>a ruin. According to one visitor, the economy is dead

0:54:49.640 --> 0:54:53.000
<v Speaker 1>and corruption is the game. By early n things had

0:54:53.040 --> 0:54:55.319
<v Speaker 1>become so bad that the I m F announced it

0:54:55.360 --> 0:54:57.640
<v Speaker 1>was suspending all aid and would lead the cut leave

0:54:57.680 --> 0:55:01.880
<v Speaker 1>the country to its own crumbling devices. In Equatorial Guinea

0:55:01.960 --> 0:55:04.160
<v Speaker 1>might have continued to just kind of be a tiny,

0:55:04.200 --> 0:55:08.000
<v Speaker 1>dirt poor kleptocracy if not for a small Texas based

0:55:08.040 --> 0:55:12.680
<v Speaker 1>oil and gas company, Walter International. In nineteen ninety one,

0:55:12.760 --> 0:55:15.560
<v Speaker 1>they stuck. They struck oil off the coast of Equatorial Guinea,

0:55:15.680 --> 0:55:19.279
<v Speaker 1>revealing a massive field of extremely high quality crude. In

0:55:19.400 --> 0:55:21.920
<v Speaker 1>short order, the we nation was producing three hundred and

0:55:21.920 --> 0:55:24.600
<v Speaker 1>fifty thousand barrels of oil a day, worth more than

0:55:24.640 --> 0:55:27.800
<v Speaker 1>six billion dollars a year. The fields and Equatorial Guinea

0:55:27.840 --> 0:55:30.399
<v Speaker 1>actually produced enough oil to make it the highest per

0:55:30.440 --> 0:55:33.520
<v Speaker 1>capita producer of fuel on the planet. And this could

0:55:33.560 --> 0:55:36.399
<v Speaker 1>have literally made every single person in the tiny country rich.

0:55:36.840 --> 0:55:39.520
<v Speaker 1>That is, of course, not what happened. Obiang and his

0:55:39.600 --> 0:55:41.719
<v Speaker 1>family took all the profits they should not have been

0:55:41.760 --> 0:55:44.680
<v Speaker 1>able to. The nineteen The nineteen seventy seven four in

0:55:44.680 --> 0:55:47.440
<v Speaker 1>corrupt Practices Act made it illegal for US companies to

0:55:47.440 --> 0:55:50.200
<v Speaker 1>make direct payments to foreign officials. Instead, they had to

0:55:50.200 --> 0:55:52.759
<v Speaker 1>pay royalties to official government accounts so the money could

0:55:52.800 --> 0:55:55.120
<v Speaker 1>be used for the benefit of the people. Obion got

0:55:55.160 --> 0:55:58.120
<v Speaker 1>around this by having oil companies like Exxon Mobile deposit

0:55:58.160 --> 0:56:00.400
<v Speaker 1>their payments in a series of offshore accounts owned by

0:56:00.480 --> 0:56:03.239
<v Speaker 1>himself and his family members. This was at best on

0:56:03.280 --> 0:56:06.240
<v Speaker 1>the verge of being illegal, but ex On Mobile, Hess

0:56:06.239 --> 0:56:09.080
<v Speaker 1>and Marathon were happy to play along and risk Congressional

0:56:09.120 --> 0:56:12.040
<v Speaker 1>centure for the simple fact that Guineon oil was the

0:56:12.120 --> 0:56:15.480
<v Speaker 1>cheapest on Earth. Obiang charged them about half of what

0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:17.640
<v Speaker 1>other governments in the area were paid for their oil.

0:56:18.080 --> 0:56:20.320
<v Speaker 1>This would have been a terrible deal for the people

0:56:20.360 --> 0:56:22.160
<v Speaker 1>of his country, but none of the money was going

0:56:22.200 --> 0:56:25.839
<v Speaker 1>to them anyway. Now On paper, the Guinean economy grew

0:56:25.840 --> 0:56:28.160
<v Speaker 1>by leaps and bounds in the late nineteen nineties, topping

0:56:28.200 --> 0:56:31.520
<v Speaker 1>sixty per year, which is almost an impossible rate. Very

0:56:31.560 --> 0:56:33.759
<v Speaker 1>little of that growth, though, reached the normal people. In

0:56:33.760 --> 0:56:36.760
<v Speaker 1>two thousand two, Equatorial Guinea spent less money than any

0:56:36.800 --> 0:56:40.040
<v Speaker 1>other country on Earth, save a rack on healthcare. No

0:56:40.280 --> 0:56:43.279
<v Speaker 1>country on the planet spent less money on education. The

0:56:43.360 --> 0:56:47.160
<v Speaker 1>average lifespan, and Equatorial Guinea was fifty years. On paper,

0:56:47.320 --> 0:56:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Guineans should have been receiving at least about six thousand

0:56:49.719 --> 0:56:51.960
<v Speaker 1>dollars a year per person and income, which would have

0:56:51.960 --> 0:56:54.160
<v Speaker 1>put the country in line with Chile, but all of

0:56:54.200 --> 0:56:57.000
<v Speaker 1>that money went to Obiang and his family instead. A

0:56:57.000 --> 0:56:59.879
<v Speaker 1>two thousand three radio program declared him the country's god,

0:57:00.200 --> 0:57:02.719
<v Speaker 1>who can decide to kill anyone without being called to

0:57:02.760 --> 0:57:04.879
<v Speaker 1>account and without going to hell, because it is God

0:57:04.960 --> 0:57:08.040
<v Speaker 1>himself with whom he is in permanent contact, who gives

0:57:08.120 --> 0:57:11.920
<v Speaker 1>him his strength. So this guy is not really a

0:57:11.960 --> 0:57:14.040
<v Speaker 1>big improvement from macis is kind of the point that

0:57:14.080 --> 0:57:17.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm making. Yeah, I think that's clear. So by the

0:57:17.480 --> 0:57:20.360
<v Speaker 1>early two thousands, though, Equatorial Guinea was what you might

0:57:20.440 --> 0:57:24.200
<v Speaker 1>call a coup plotter's paradise. It has this horrible, unpopular

0:57:24.280 --> 0:57:27.040
<v Speaker 1>dictator who's a global pariah, and there's a huge amount

0:57:27.040 --> 0:57:30.000
<v Speaker 1>of oil that's just been discovered there. And best of all,

0:57:30.240 --> 0:57:32.760
<v Speaker 1>the War on Terror has just started, and the invasion

0:57:32.800 --> 0:57:35.680
<v Speaker 1>of Iraq has caused a situation whereby it suddenly really

0:57:35.760 --> 0:57:39.040
<v Speaker 1>really easy to justify overthrowing a foreign dictator in order

0:57:39.080 --> 0:57:42.040
<v Speaker 1>to get at his oil. The Spanish government very much

0:57:42.040 --> 0:57:45.000
<v Speaker 1>wanted access to Equatorial guineas fuel because they were piste off.

0:57:45.040 --> 0:57:46.800
<v Speaker 1>They'd given up this country and not known that it

0:57:46.880 --> 0:57:49.560
<v Speaker 1>was filled with oil. Uh. And they even had a

0:57:49.640 --> 0:57:52.000
<v Speaker 1>ringer from Equatorial Guinea who they felt they could trust

0:57:52.000 --> 0:57:55.280
<v Speaker 1>to replace Obiong and give them access. All that Spain

0:57:55.360 --> 0:57:58.440
<v Speaker 1>needed was a mercenary ambitious enough to risk torture and

0:57:58.480 --> 0:58:00.720
<v Speaker 1>execution in Black Beach Prison for a chance at a

0:58:00.760 --> 0:58:03.800
<v Speaker 1>massive pay day. And in Part two, we're all going

0:58:03.840 --> 0:58:07.320
<v Speaker 1>to meet this mercenary, South Africa's equivalent of Eric Prince,

0:58:07.560 --> 0:58:13.160
<v Speaker 1>a fellow named Simon Man. Yeah. Boy, so that's where

0:58:13.160 --> 0:58:17.240
<v Speaker 1>we end in part one. I can't I'm I'm like

0:58:17.360 --> 0:58:20.439
<v Speaker 1>Gripps to my seat. I can't wait to to meet

0:58:20.480 --> 0:58:24.240
<v Speaker 1>this new this new bastard. Yeah, it's gonna be exciting

0:58:24.320 --> 0:58:27.880
<v Speaker 1>and everybody's gonna have a fun time learning about him. Um,

0:58:27.880 --> 0:58:31.280
<v Speaker 1>but first people should have a fun time learning about you.

0:58:31.400 --> 0:58:33.920
<v Speaker 1>Bridget Todd. You have a new podcast, There Are No

0:58:34.040 --> 0:58:36.680
<v Speaker 1>Girls on the Internet, uh, and that is about to

0:58:36.760 --> 0:58:38.880
<v Speaker 1>launch on the I Heart Radio network, which which galls

0:58:38.960 --> 0:58:42.760
<v Speaker 1>dropped day. Oh it is July seven, so please subscribe

0:58:43.680 --> 0:58:47.080
<v Speaker 1>listen all of that stuff. Can we talk about that

0:58:47.120 --> 0:58:51.760
<v Speaker 1>transition for a second though it was lawless. I was.

0:58:51.840 --> 0:58:53.920
<v Speaker 1>I was almost like in awe of it. It was,

0:58:54.200 --> 0:58:57.280
<v Speaker 1>I really was, Can I say one more thing before

0:58:57.320 --> 0:58:59.480
<v Speaker 1>we before we move away from that? You can say

0:58:59.520 --> 0:59:02.880
<v Speaker 1>as many things like I'm gonna say this the things

0:59:03.400 --> 0:59:06.040
<v Speaker 1>I've spent a lot of time in South Africa, and

0:59:06.120 --> 0:59:09.240
<v Speaker 1>I will say that like I will never I will

0:59:09.280 --> 0:59:12.160
<v Speaker 1>never pretend to be an expert on the history or

0:59:12.200 --> 0:59:14.520
<v Speaker 1>the country or the people. But the one thing that

0:59:14.600 --> 0:59:16.640
<v Speaker 1>was very clear to me from spending a lot of

0:59:16.640 --> 0:59:20.400
<v Speaker 1>time in South Africa was that I think that like

0:59:20.960 --> 0:59:25.400
<v Speaker 1>the people there are like traumatized by how shitty all

0:59:25.440 --> 0:59:27.880
<v Speaker 1>the shitty experiences they've had with a government, and that

0:59:28.280 --> 0:59:31.040
<v Speaker 1>I think it lasts today. I was very um. It

0:59:31.120 --> 0:59:34.680
<v Speaker 1>was interesting to see how that ship like doesn't go away.

0:59:34.720 --> 0:59:36.800
<v Speaker 1>It's just as kind of like passed on the generations.

0:59:36.800 --> 0:59:38.160
<v Speaker 1>And so as someone who spent a lot of time

0:59:38.160 --> 0:59:40.640
<v Speaker 1>in South Africa, all this ship you're saying, I'm like,

0:59:40.760 --> 0:59:45.040
<v Speaker 1>oh ship, Yeah that makes sense. People are fucking traumatized.

0:59:45.120 --> 0:59:48.120
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I love I loved my time there, but

0:59:48.160 --> 0:59:51.440
<v Speaker 1>I just was really um a place where you know,

0:59:51.520 --> 0:59:54.960
<v Speaker 1>I just feel like even today, I see the reverberations

0:59:54.960 --> 0:59:58.400
<v Speaker 1>of the people really deserved better. Yeah, Yeah, that's kind

0:59:58.440 --> 1:00:00.640
<v Speaker 1>of like the only real conclusion. And you can make

1:00:00.680 --> 1:00:02.600
<v Speaker 1>because both sides in this, if you want to look

1:00:02.640 --> 1:00:04.480
<v Speaker 1>at them, the sides are just so shitty, Like the

1:00:04.520 --> 1:00:07.560
<v Speaker 1>dictators of Equatorial Guinea are awful. All the people who

1:00:07.640 --> 1:00:10.000
<v Speaker 1>try to overthrow them are just trying to get rich

1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:13.960
<v Speaker 1>and just equally shitty. And there's there's at no point

1:00:14.040 --> 1:00:16.480
<v Speaker 1>does anyone involved give a shit about the people who

1:00:16.480 --> 1:00:19.000
<v Speaker 1>live in Equatorial Guinea. And that's like, yeah, it's it's

1:00:19.000 --> 1:00:21.480
<v Speaker 1>a bummer. That's not good. It's not it's really not

1:00:21.800 --> 1:00:25.200
<v Speaker 1>bad and not good. So speaking of things that are

1:00:25.200 --> 1:00:28.040
<v Speaker 1>bad and not good, go back out into the world

1:00:29.360 --> 1:00:34.040
<v Speaker 1>or coursed inside, and you can go to our website

1:00:34.200 --> 1:00:36.840
<v Speaker 1>to find our sources, which are under the episode description

1:00:37.600 --> 1:00:40.200
<v Speaker 1>behind the Bastards dot com where you could follow Robert

1:00:40.200 --> 1:00:42.360
<v Speaker 1>on Twitter and a right okay, where you could follow

1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:45.520
<v Speaker 1>us on Twitter and Instagram at Bastard's Pod or you

1:00:45.560 --> 1:00:50.200
<v Speaker 1>could buy a a face mask or a T shirt

1:00:50.320 --> 1:00:54.480
<v Speaker 1>or a cell phone case or lug or or whatever

1:00:54.560 --> 1:00:57.919
<v Speaker 1>they've decided to sell on Tea Public today. Yeah, are

1:00:58.240 --> 1:01:01.880
<v Speaker 1>these face masks cure COVID nineteen face masks are going

1:01:01.960 --> 1:01:05.040
<v Speaker 1>to be on sale soon. UM, you can help us.

1:01:05.360 --> 1:01:08.640
<v Speaker 1>F d A approved written right on the front. U.

1:01:09.520 --> 1:01:13.440
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, help us, help us thumb an eye in

1:01:13.600 --> 1:01:17.080
<v Speaker 1>the f d a's face, and UM get rated in

1:01:17.160 --> 1:01:21.720
<v Speaker 1>a mountaintop compound in Idaho. Uh. That's the dream. That's

1:01:21.760 --> 1:01:25.320
<v Speaker 1>my dream, and it should be your dream too. Is

1:01:25.320 --> 1:01:30.880
<v Speaker 1>there information about how folks can enjoin the cult? Uh?

1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:33.959
<v Speaker 1>Not yet. UM. Yeah, the cult is in your heart.

1:01:34.360 --> 1:01:36.480
<v Speaker 1>The cult is in your heart. You know you'll find

1:01:36.520 --> 1:01:39.920
<v Speaker 1>it in your heart. Um. As long as you, you know,

1:01:40.200 --> 1:01:42.040
<v Speaker 1>want to fight the f d A on a mountaintop

1:01:42.080 --> 1:01:45.040
<v Speaker 1>in Idaho, that's really all it takes. That's the episode.

1:01:45.240 --> 1:01:56.200
<v Speaker 1>I think that's the episode.