Speaker 1: Ah, this is Leslie Frasier and this is the NFL
Speaker 1: Player's second Acts podcast.
Speaker 2: Thank you for tuning in on Peanut too, man and.
Speaker 3: With me as always, the Deacon.
Speaker 1: Broman Harper, Thank you, thank you man that I'm doing
Speaker 1: good man, How are you doing today? I'm sure I
Speaker 1: love the energy that you're bringing today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of energy. I'm actually confused.
Speaker 1: I won't say our guest name yet, but he always
Speaker 1: calls me some kind of random name, and so now
Speaker 1: that he's just being normal, I appreciate it. So thank
Speaker 1: you for being normal out here in the LA Studios,
Speaker 1: the NFL Studios.
Speaker 3: This is a beautiful place. There is this. Whoever built
Speaker 3: this was on top of it.
Speaker 1: I've actually think that they have spent over a million
Speaker 1: dollars in chairs alone in this building.
Speaker 3: Chairs are nice.
Speaker 2: My back feels good. Laura Lombards there it is all right.
Speaker 2: So all right, before we get all we dive into it.
Speaker 3: Here we go.
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Speaker 3: Peanut. Who's our guest today? All right?
Speaker 4: Today's guest was drafted in the second round by the
Speaker 4: Buffalo Bills and the ninety four draft. Played five seasons
Speaker 4: for five different teams as a dB, the best position
Speaker 4: on the field and returner. After playing at the NFL,
Speaker 4: he was a scout for a number of teams and.
Speaker 3: Now he has.
Speaker 2: An seeing amount of jobs. And we'll get into that,
Speaker 2: but I want, I want to install introduce y'all to
Speaker 2: Bucky Brooks. Welcome to the show, My guys, going life comes,
Speaker 2: life comes full circle because I just remember in meeting
Speaker 2: rooms having to do reports and talk about you guys
Speaker 2: as a cross checker when you guys were in your
Speaker 2: respective schools and coming out and trying to.
Speaker 3: Make your way into the league. And there here I am.
Speaker 2: You guys became great NFL players and then we're kind
Speaker 2: of sharing sharing a Mike.
Speaker 1: Sorry what I wanted? Oh go ahead, you want? Can
Speaker 1: I know what my scoundrel? Because I wanted was I was?
Speaker 1: I read a green dot. I want to know who
Speaker 1: that I want to know.
Speaker 2: So unfortunately, like for both of you guys, you weren't
Speaker 2: in my area when you came out.
Speaker 3: Your draft year.
Speaker 2: What year was, I'm three, so three, So I was
Speaker 2: still working with the Carolina Now I was working with
Speaker 2: the Seattle Seahawks. And the guy who was in your area,
Speaker 2: John Peterson, Boy, he loves some peanut man, Oh my god.
Speaker 2: All he talked about was this daddy, you play please
Speaker 2: all these other things.
Speaker 3: And so oh your year, Roaman was winning two thousand
Speaker 3: and five.
Speaker 5: Six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I got drafted in six. Okay, so we
Speaker 1: had we were in Alabama, so we had.
Speaker 2: Mutual friends because you were with like Bill Johnson, Pat Dick.
Speaker 2: Bill Johnson is like one of my closest friends. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: so I knew, like even before scouting you, I knew
Speaker 2: who you were because Bill and I go way way
Speaker 2: way back to singing Jacksonville or whatever, and so like,
Speaker 2: it's funny because both of you guys have similar traits
Speaker 2: in terms of it was always high iq known for
Speaker 2: the game. Behind the scenes, the study habits were good.
Speaker 2: It was all about like the preparation process or whatever,
Speaker 2: and so you had prototypical size for the corner because
Speaker 2: at the time, any corner that was over five ten
Speaker 2: and a half was considered a big corner. Back then
Speaker 2: in the league, everyone talked about that.
Speaker 5: At safety.
Speaker 2: It was about the game was changing, where we were
Speaker 2: losing some of the distinction between free and strong.
Speaker 5: And could you do both? And could you win a
Speaker 5: quarter system? Play down? But could you also play high?
Speaker 2: And so having all those things, and then because of
Speaker 2: my experience going from me in a wide receiver to
Speaker 2: a dB, I always pay close attention to DB's and
Speaker 2: like you find yourself when you're scouting, you're not supposed
Speaker 2: to look at all the techniques and tools be like, okay,
Speaker 2: could I play.
Speaker 5: With these guys?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Because that always to me is the last question. Could
Speaker 2: I line up in the whodle? What I want those
Speaker 2: guys to be in the hardle with me? And so
Speaker 2: I remember both of you guys very very well about.
Speaker 3: Look at that.
Speaker 1: Well, here I got a personal question. Is because you
Speaker 1: know I'm gonna call you Bucky, Yeah, that's it. But
Speaker 1: how many people do actually allow to call.
Speaker 3: You a real government name?
Speaker 5: Though?
Speaker 2: Oh no one, nobody, nobody, Like I know, you don't
Speaker 2: know me if you call me by my government name.
Speaker 2: I know you don't know, and like people gonna be
Speaker 2: up here, Like, I'll tell it. My real name is
Speaker 2: William Eldridge Brooks Junior. So but you guys know I'm
Speaker 2: from the South. Yeah, so when you're South, everyone has
Speaker 2: a nickname because my cousins in them William Eldridge with
Speaker 2: different last names and so everybody had an nickname. So
Speaker 2: I got cousins and all that or whatever. My dad
Speaker 2: is never going by his real name. He goes by Blake.
Speaker 2: I go by that. My son name is Trey because
Speaker 2: he's the third. But that's that's what that's that's what
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm marrid with it. Hey, I'm lead up.
Speaker 4: My older brother, his name is Doug. I'm from my
Speaker 4: dad looked Donald. I'm her name tiny. Like we just
Speaker 4: come from a house of nicknames. So hey, I'll tell
Speaker 4: you on that.
Speaker 3: Like I get it.
Speaker 5: I gets it.
Speaker 3: Hey, I get the whole government thing. Man. So, uh,
Speaker 3: what I really want to know is you are a
Speaker 3: very busy man.
Speaker 4: And what I mean by that is you you have
Speaker 4: a couple of podcasts. You are analysts for NFL Network,
Speaker 4: You host Move the Sticks podcast, you do some stuff
Speaker 4: for Fox how many jobs do you Oh, I even
Speaker 4: believe you're a coach.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so.
Speaker 5: Oh we don't turn down anything.
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's it. Though it's paying.
Speaker 2: I'm playing explain, explain to explain to the viewers how
Speaker 2: many jobs you have?
Speaker 3: Like it it varies.
Speaker 2: So the main hub is like obviously NFL Media is
Speaker 2: the main gig Radio on Fox. I contributed to some
Speaker 2: other platforms as a writer in those things, but like
Speaker 2: that's kind of the way of the new world. Like
Speaker 2: when I originally entered the media world Got two thousand
Speaker 2: and seven, it was about trying to find one spot
Speaker 2: and you did it. But now you've seen it, like
Speaker 2: you have to be able to do more to kind
Speaker 2: of kind of piece it together. And exclusivity is kind
Speaker 2: of a thing of the past when it comes to
Speaker 2: being able. So now you want to be able to
Speaker 2: contribute and do a bunch of different things and look
Speaker 2: as a vast as yours imagination is, that's where your
Speaker 2: opportunities can be. And so for me, because I wasn't
Speaker 2: a decorated player, I knew I had to have something
Speaker 2: that would create opportunities for me. So one as a
Speaker 2: scale but two as a writer, like taking the writing
Speaker 2: path to kind of get into the media world provided
Speaker 2: more opportunities. And so I always say the writing is
Speaker 2: the foundation the TV and the podcast and radio. If
Speaker 2: you can write, you can do those other things because
Speaker 2: it all is kind of interwoven.
Speaker 3: Were you always a really good writer or did you
Speaker 3: always just read a lot?
Speaker 5: Like you imagine?
Speaker 2: Okay, So, like imagine when we go to college, right,
Speaker 2: you know, when you go to college and like they
Speaker 2: take they give you like the exams in the middle
Speaker 2: of training camp, right like where they at North Carolina,
Speaker 2: they did the placement exams in the middle of two
Speaker 2: a days, so like, hey, this is your English, this
Speaker 2: is your dad. So I was in like bad English
Speaker 2: because I was like just trying to get through the
Speaker 2: beginner English. Yes, and so it was it was funny
Speaker 2: that I came to write, because it wasn't something that
Speaker 2: I would say I really focused on coming up. But
Speaker 2: then what happens is I had a great appreciation for
Speaker 2: people who can express with the power of the pen.
Speaker 2: And then because one of the most vulnerable things you do,
Speaker 2: like all of us, like as players, we kind of
Speaker 2: have these journals that we keep, right, So imagine if
Speaker 2: I grabbed your journal from the middle of your new
Speaker 2: or in the same states, when you may be like
Speaker 2: struggling in camp and you're like, I don't know what
Speaker 2: is going So to me, it's like the most personal,
Speaker 2: intimate thing that you can share is letting someone kind
Speaker 2: of see your words on the page. And so I
Speaker 2: just fell in love with that process and being able
Speaker 2: to think a little differently, and so it kind of
Speaker 2: worked out.
Speaker 5: That is awesome.
Speaker 1: I didn't think like the whole journey and using the
Speaker 1: power of the pen is amazing to hear like a
Speaker 1: former football player talk about it and use those skills,
Speaker 1: especially now trying to knock at Chapel Hills, a highly
Speaker 1: regarded institution.
Speaker 2: As far as education is the best ever, Yes, yes
Speaker 2: it is. I hear about it all the time. Somehow
Speaker 2: throw they talk about it. I don't have to talk
Speaker 2: about Alabama. I mean, if we want to talk about sports,
Speaker 2: it's not even close. But as far as education, that's
Speaker 2: all you hear about is Chapel Hill. We talk about football.
Speaker 2: We talk about sports. Now you got to come see us.
Speaker 2: We got all of that stuff, you do, you know,
Speaker 2: football is a little behind. In fact, my senior year
Speaker 2: we lost to Alabama in the bowl game because that
Speaker 2: was Sherman Williams. Oh yes, Sherman, Yeah, Sham Shade and
Speaker 2: all those guys.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we played them in the Gator Ball.
Speaker 3: Not a man throwback.
Speaker 2: All right, So all these jobs, all these things, So
Speaker 2: when do you find time to sleep?
Speaker 1: Like what is a typical week for Bucky Books? It
Speaker 1: all kind of works together, or you don't sleep. Because
Speaker 1: I'm a guy I can do with like four or five.
Speaker 3: I can with a little bit, but it all works together.
Speaker 2: So during this season, it's not as heavy for me
Speaker 2: when it comes to NFL network and TV stuff like
Speaker 2: podcasts three times a week. May occasionally pop on a
Speaker 2: show like Total Access or something like that, but primarily
Speaker 2: it's just podcasting and in writing. I'll write a couple
Speaker 2: of times a week. That's when high school football is heavy.
Speaker 2: In head coach of a school there, so we practice
Speaker 2: before school, So we practice at six am. We go
Speaker 2: from like six to seven to twenty. We own that
Speaker 2: NFL Quick Practice in and out Fast Friday, but we
Speaker 2: do Fast Friday every day. Yeah, And we get in
Speaker 2: and out and then I go about my day like
Speaker 2: the podcast will be whatever. Some days, the heavier stuff
Speaker 2: and that. But when it gets to the spring, high
Speaker 2: school football is done. But then that's when it's the
Speaker 2: draft and focusing on that path to the draft, like
Speaker 2: the main show that I'm on that comes on, and
Speaker 2: so it just kind of it fluctuates, but it's always busy,
Speaker 2: but busy in a difference, are you studying college players
Speaker 2: throughout the season, Like how is that process going? When
Speaker 2: are you starting to really dive into that, because that's
Speaker 2: that's where that's where your bread is.
Speaker 3: I mean, but that's because that's the background.
Speaker 2: So the background is like I was a college scout,
Speaker 2: so I would go and look at college players and
Speaker 2: then we'll rank them and draft them and evaluate them,
Speaker 2: put them on the board for the draft and those things.
Speaker 2: For me, you're always paying attention to the college game.
Speaker 5: Like I do work.
Speaker 2: I do sideline work for the Jacksonville Jaguars radio and
Speaker 2: so when I'm on the road on a Saturday night,
Speaker 2: like you pop in TV, you see what's going on,
Speaker 2: but you also have your tape available.
Speaker 3: And then as it gets closer to the end of
Speaker 3: the season.
Speaker 2: When you begin to get the names you begin to
Speaker 2: hear from your scouting buddies who are in the league. Hey,
Speaker 2: hear the names that you need to watch, and then
Speaker 2: you begin to like kind of really do a deep
Speaker 2: dive into these are the guys that we really need
Speaker 2: to know. And you see, because you guys do it
Speaker 2: in the mediate world, like you kind of play the hits,
Speaker 2: like you're talking about the top guys every day, and
Speaker 2: then on TV you'll get into an obscure. Hey, this
Speaker 2: is a late round, little Jim nugget, but most of
Speaker 2: the time we talk about the top guys, and so
Speaker 2: sometimes saying now you can TV scale, but then you
Speaker 2: follow it up with real filmwork, film scouting now being
Speaker 2: as busy as you are and all the jobs that
Speaker 2: you have. I know, when you.
Speaker 4: Are a coach, you have this responsibility to teach young
Speaker 4: men about life the game itself, but you're.
Speaker 3: Teach them about life.
Speaker 4: You're teaching them about hard work, teamwork, how to grind,
Speaker 4: how to work together, how to overcome obstacles, failures, and whatnot.
Speaker 4: What's really been the most gratifying job for you out
Speaker 4: of all the ones that we just mentioned, well.
Speaker 2: All of them are gratifying in a different way. But
Speaker 2: I would say high school because you guys know, like
Speaker 2: there's always been a coach that's somewhere along the line
Speaker 2: that touched you in a different way, either change your
Speaker 2: path or he gave you the confidence that, hey man,
Speaker 2: you can do this.
Speaker 5: Yep. And so for me, high school gives me the
Speaker 5: opportunity to do that.
Speaker 2: I coach at the public school up in the northern
Speaker 2: part of LA And it's just great to see all
Speaker 2: these dudes, right because, like, I don't care what anyone says, like,
Speaker 2: there's nothing that is like playing. There's no replicating like
Speaker 2: running through the tunnel, feeling all that they gladiated mentality.
Speaker 2: The only thing to me that's close to that is coaching,
Speaker 2: and I can't do it anymore, but I can live through.
Speaker 5: Watching them do.
Speaker 2: So if we're talking about we're a team to play
Speaker 2: a lot of man to man, but we're like, hey man,
Speaker 2: look if they get in this bunch, we're gonna bando
Speaker 2: it and you go, he's going to throw it and
Speaker 2: it just don't blow the layup. And when they do it,
Speaker 2: you come out of your shoes just like you would
Speaker 2: as a player if we're teammates and you get a
Speaker 2: pick six and we meet in the end zone. So
Speaker 2: to me, those things are great and yeah, why when
Speaker 2: they do great things and you tell them like that's
Speaker 2: great that you're doing all your stuff on the field,
Speaker 2: but now let's take care of this stuff off the field.
Speaker 3: Because how you do anything is how you do everything.
Speaker 2: And you give them those little things that coaches that
Speaker 2: poured into you and then you see them take it.
Speaker 2: And then I think the thing and it happens with
Speaker 2: our kids whatever when you hear them say stuff that
Speaker 2: you said to them to their teammates, like little guys
Speaker 2: that come in like, oh man, you got to take
Speaker 2: care of the details and all that other stuff. That's
Speaker 2: when you're got oh okay, Yeah, that part to me
Speaker 2: is fun like watching them grow. And I've been on
Speaker 2: the camp circuit for a long time, like working with
Speaker 2: Nike camps and all that, and seeing Derwin James and
Speaker 2: Jamal Adams and all these guys come through and watching
Speaker 2: them when they're in teenagers and now I see them
Speaker 2: as pros, right, but they see you and they're like
Speaker 2: coach Bucky like. So to me, it's just like paying
Speaker 2: it forward. And so the game is such a great game.
Speaker 2: That's one of the things you can take all the
Speaker 2: things that you learn from playing in between the lines
Speaker 2: on the grass, and you give it to young people
Speaker 2: and then they can take it and use it in
Speaker 2: a bunch of different ways.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting you say that because my
Speaker 1: dad was a high school coach and he coached me
Speaker 1: my first couple of years in high school. And I
Speaker 1: used to ask them like that, why do you coach?
Speaker 1: Like these kids can't do this?
Speaker 2: You're yelling all like you're up for all these hours,
Speaker 2: like why, And it was the same example that you
Speaker 2: just gave you, Like, it's something to be said when
Speaker 2: you have a guy walk in here as a freshman,
Speaker 2: can't even can barely tie shoes, put his pads on backwards,
Speaker 2: and you look up two or three years later and
Speaker 2: he's playing, Like I have shaped this kid into a player,
Speaker 2: and I can trust him to like not mess it up.
Speaker 1: He's gonna be able to tackle somebody. And you get
Speaker 1: excited for these things. And so that's the real joy
Speaker 1: of coaching high school football that I don't think anybody
Speaker 1: really understands, no until.
Speaker 5: You do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that to me, that was always that was
Speaker 2: always the level I always want to be at. Right,
Speaker 2: I didn't have an aspiration to coach like a high
Speaker 2: level because in high school, most HIG schools, unless you're
Speaker 2: a private HIG school, I mean you coach, you coach
Speaker 2: up who shows up? So and so, Like when they
Speaker 2: come through the door, you're like, whoa, we don't have
Speaker 2: a quarterback.
Speaker 5: You know what we're gonna do.
Speaker 2: We're gonna jump into single wing thing and try and
Speaker 2: figure it out or whatever it is like and so
Speaker 2: oh man, they really don't understand how to plays. So
Speaker 2: so you know what we're gonna do. Hey man, that's
Speaker 2: your man. That cat is your cat. Wherever you go,
Speaker 2: you go, like and so you you like, to me,
Speaker 2: that's the beauty of high school ball, Like you just
Speaker 2: you never know what it's gonna.
Speaker 3: Look like and then you try and figure out. All right, guys,
Speaker 3: like this is what we got.
Speaker 2: We have one defensive man and you know, so to me,
Speaker 2: that's that's the beauty of high school.
Speaker 3: And that's why I have so much respect for high school.
Speaker 2: And also to attest to that, your past year, you win,
Speaker 2: guys went to the championship. Your first two completions all
Speaker 2: year long were in the championship game. You guys rush
Speaker 2: for fifty four hundred yards and seventy touchdowns and didn't
Speaker 2: throw the ball all year long. So the single wing,
Speaker 2: which nobody can defend.
Speaker 1: Obviously, I think that's a benefit to you though in
Speaker 1: a testment that he you're such like, you know what.
Speaker 3: We're gonna do. Whatever works.
Speaker 2: It is so and you're not just stuck in your
Speaker 2: waist because you hadn't been coaching with thirty five years.
Speaker 2: Oh so, here's just funny. And it goes back to
Speaker 2: when I was working with the Carolina Panthers. You can
Speaker 2: look this up. It's really funny. So we had to
Speaker 2: play against the Atlanta Falcons. Huh, starting quarterback Jake the
Speaker 2: Loman is out. Chris Winky is a quarterback. I don't
Speaker 2: know if John Fox had a lot of confidence in
Speaker 2: Chris will So we lined up with D'Angelo Williams and
Speaker 2: Deshaun Foster and played the wildcat the entire game. They
Speaker 2: threw six pass I think we threw six passes and
Speaker 2: one both the news went over.
Speaker 5: So then I was like, oh, well, you know what,
Speaker 5: like sometimes.
Speaker 2: You just whatever you do, you do whatever you gotta do, yeah,
Speaker 2: and get out of it. But those are the things
Speaker 2: that you do and in high school, like you have
Speaker 2: to like just take what you're given and kind of
Speaker 2: figure out a way to make it work.
Speaker 5: I love that. I do too.
Speaker 4: I don't think we had that in Texas. We always
Speaker 4: had some some good talent coming through them doors of
Speaker 4: copperce Cove.
Speaker 1: So tell me, all right, so what's the transition like
Speaker 1: being from all right, you were in the scouting world.
Speaker 1: Now you're on the opposite side of it covering it
Speaker 1: as an analyst. How have the relationships of the people
Speaker 1: that you worked with? Has that changed or has it
Speaker 1: been kind of remained the same or do they respect
Speaker 1: to the same, Like, because you got to tell it honestly,
Speaker 1: you win, it wouldn't keep the job. And when you're honest, like.
Speaker 2: You guys know because I've seen both of you guys
Speaker 2: on TV, so y'all know, like when you come off
Speaker 2: to sitting off a sudden, your phone is buzzing because
Speaker 2: when you dude, like come on now, you know, I
Speaker 2: got to play TV. So like, so like I gotta
Speaker 2: sell and I gotta sell it in a major way.
Speaker 2: But it's actually been great because what happens is your boys,
Speaker 2: your guys who are like you're really like that you're.
Speaker 5: Down with, they'll call you, they'll give you the information.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very true. Here's what school on this. Because
Speaker 2: they want you to look good and they beam when
Speaker 2: they see you on TV because they're like, hey, man,
Speaker 2: look at you all up.
Speaker 3: Your fancy you know, but but they dig it.
Speaker 2: They actually are pride for when they see you do
Speaker 2: your thing because you know what the locker room is like,
Speaker 2: like really at his core, we really care about it,
Speaker 2: even though the pros are kind of weird because like
Speaker 2: we're all kind of independent contract. When you're on great teams,
Speaker 2: you really still have that same camaraderie. Feel doubt little
Speaker 2: league and high school or whatever where like man, it's
Speaker 2: about your boy getting off and we all we do
Speaker 2: well as a group, everyone gets off. So for me,
Speaker 2: the relationships have been the same. And what I always
Speaker 2: try to do is if I do have to criticize,
Speaker 2: I always try and make it where it's not it's
Speaker 2: not personal, Like here's what we're talking about.
Speaker 5: We're talking about a decision that was made.
Speaker 2: We're talking about a player that was picked in those things,
Speaker 2: and you try to like have a critical eye like hey,
Speaker 2: well maybe they're thinking this and those things. And for
Speaker 2: me it is worth because most of the guys, even
Speaker 2: if they don't agree with my opinion, they can be like, Okay.
Speaker 5: I get that.
Speaker 2: It's just when if you go sideways and I've never
Speaker 2: been like a hot take artist, but if you go
Speaker 2: sideways where you're trying to embellish it and blow it up,
Speaker 2: that's when you're like, come on, man, what are we doing.
Speaker 2: But most of the time people can respect it and
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, okay, I get that. Now when you
Speaker 2: got out, you got right into the scouting. Now, why
Speaker 2: do you do scouting versus coaching? Well, I just it's
Speaker 2: funny because I bounced around so much as a player
Speaker 2: that I didn't want to kind of have that life
Speaker 2: as a coach because we saw very saying we've all
Speaker 2: been coached by guides that man, they got different logos
Speaker 2: on every year.
Speaker 1: What they say, you're a coach. It's not about like
Speaker 1: if it's when you're gonna get fired.
Speaker 2: Right, So imagine, like I mean we all have kids, Like,
Speaker 2: imagine you don't want to take your kids like every
Speaker 2: two years bounce them around or whatever. So for me,
Speaker 2: I was like, all right, Like the scouting thing at
Speaker 2: the time was supposed to be the more stable environment
Speaker 2: of that, So you're still close to the game in
Speaker 2: a different way than coaching. Now there's still nothing like
Speaker 2: coaching them playing are like the two things, cause you
Speaker 2: get looked. There's a scoreboard when you're scouting. You don't
Speaker 2: have the same scoreboard. Like you can talk about the draft,
Speaker 2: but you don't see it until like two three years.
Speaker 2: And so the hard thing for me as a scout
Speaker 2: was you didn't have a direct impact on the game
Speaker 2: each Sunday. So you're watching the game, but it's not
Speaker 2: like a decision that you made as a coach either
Speaker 2: wins or loses, or as a player how you played.
Speaker 2: As a scout, you're sitting back and you're thinking about
Speaker 2: the long view. And so I missed that part of
Speaker 2: the competition, which is why when I had an opportunity
Speaker 2: and I moved over to media, I was like, well,
Speaker 2: I got a coach, now I gotta get that. I
Speaker 2: got to scratch that itch and coach in high school
Speaker 2: did that, but like that part, but for me, I
Speaker 2: was still trying to squeeze out one more year, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was trying to squeeze out, like man if I could.
Speaker 5: Just get one, And so I called one of my boys.
Speaker 2: He was working with the Philadelphia Eagles, and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I ain't got nothing for years player, but there may
Speaker 2: be a job that opens up as scout.
Speaker 5: And so I was prepping to get ready for an interview.
Speaker 2: There called another one of my guys and he had
Speaker 2: just got a gig and see yeall, he'said, why don't
Speaker 2: you come.
Speaker 5: Up here and interview. I wanted to an interview and
Speaker 5: never left, you know. So that's that's how I played that.
Speaker 2: But the same thing, those those relationships and as a player,
Speaker 2: because I'm sure you guys did it as players. You
Speaker 2: let people know what you would like that transition to
Speaker 2: be for you after football is done. Cause I'm sure
Speaker 2: coaches or people around caming, hey, man, what do you
Speaker 2: want to do when football was over? And I want
Speaker 2: to coach? I want to do this on scout. And
Speaker 2: so I let people know what my intentions were. And
Speaker 2: then it just so happened that I got.
Speaker 3: You gotta go ahead.
Speaker 1: No, No, I could guess I'd like something just hitting
Speaker 1: my yeah brain, I gotta I.
Speaker 2: Guess my question. Another question that I have is, so
Speaker 2: Chris Ballad was my scout. Yeah, and I brag on
Speaker 2: Chris Ballad every time because we talk.
Speaker 5: We're good friends.
Speaker 4: And he was like, man, I'll fault Jerry Angelo tooth
Speaker 4: and nail to take you second round. I know you
Speaker 4: didn't have the name, but I was like, I'm telling you,
Speaker 4: Peanut or Charles Tillman, he's going to be the guy.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: Has there been a player that you scouted in college
Speaker 2: that you were just like, Nope, this is the guy.
Speaker 2: He can be X Y and Z, he will be
Speaker 2: a great player. Is there a guy in your when
Speaker 2: you were scouting.
Speaker 5: I think we all have guys that we love.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you're not in a position to take the player
Speaker 2: that you want for that team, but there are certain
Speaker 2: guys that you like gravitate towards. So I remember watching
Speaker 2: Steve Smith, who works with us here, but I remember
Speaker 2: watching him at Utah, and I remember watching him in
Speaker 2: the All Star game circuit that we that guys do
Speaker 2: like after their senior year.
Speaker 5: This dude was dominant Hula Bowl.
Speaker 3: He was killing the East weatight, So you're just like, man,
Speaker 3: this dude is like a dude.
Speaker 2: But he wasn't a prototypical size at the time because
Speaker 2: he's like, look, he's five nine.
Speaker 5: He made list five to ten, but was.
Speaker 3: He hits it now? He hits it now like he
Speaker 3: was five nine and he was a returner.
Speaker 2: And so sometimes that can be a hard sale to
Speaker 2: say that, hey man, this dude is a returner, but
Speaker 2: like he can be a wide out to so watching
Speaker 2: him and then when I left Seattle to go there
Speaker 2: and watch him grow from being a Pro Bowl kick
Speaker 2: returner as a rookie to then being a guy that
Speaker 2: won the Triple Crown and become a multiple time Pro
Speaker 2: Bowl player and wide receiver. Those are the things that
Speaker 2: you're like, Okay, this is cool, Like that's it's great
Speaker 2: to watch him progress. No one could predict that he
Speaker 2: would be what he became, a Hall of Fame caliber
Speaker 2: wide out. But to see him go from that and
Speaker 2: to be able to like, yeah, I thought he could
Speaker 2: do some of that. I didn't think he could do
Speaker 2: all of that. That stuff is kind of cool.
Speaker 5: Peanut.
Speaker 1: Now I literally wrote just about that same question now
Speaker 1: that you just asked him. I want to know from
Speaker 1: the other side, was like, early on in your scouting career,
Speaker 1: did you ever like were you almost over confident in
Speaker 1: some things?
Speaker 3: Knowing that you had just come from playing.
Speaker 1: Were you overconfident with like, man, I know this, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden I was wrong and I was like, man,
Speaker 1: maybe I need to go back to the drawing board
Speaker 1: on some of my process.
Speaker 2: So it's funny because what happens is as a player,
Speaker 2: and you'll see this, like as you're around teams and
Speaker 2: those things. I know you guys are around teams. Sometimes
Speaker 2: they're not a lot of former players in the scouting department,
Speaker 2: and there can be a different rub because sometimes as
Speaker 2: players we may fall into these stereotypes. Right, players are
Speaker 2: codd old players. I don't know if they can do
Speaker 2: the grind on them to get on it this and that.
Speaker 2: Even though I always felt like, well, being a good
Speaker 2: player like that gives me a leg up because I
Speaker 2: kind of know what that thing is and I felt
Speaker 2: like I would give prospects more grace just because I.
Speaker 5: Knew how hard the game is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I'm saying, like, no, yeah, man,
Speaker 2: like that that's a hard play. Coach, Like that's a
Speaker 2: hard Like that's hard you acting like now, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: a hard play.
Speaker 5: They coming down the screen.
Speaker 3: My man ain't got a reroute number.
Speaker 5: One, I'm on the hash every way go.
Speaker 3: He's coming right at me. What am I doing?
Speaker 2: They fit it in the honey hole, and you're mad
Speaker 2: at me because I can't get over there, like being
Speaker 2: able to understand that part of it. Yeah, And I
Speaker 2: think what happens is because you come off the field,
Speaker 2: you may feel like you know it and you should
Speaker 2: always feel good about it, but you also have to
Speaker 2: put the study behind that stuff. But I think the
Speaker 2: advantage that you have we all play with great players.
Speaker 2: So for instance, I think in my past I'm now
Speaker 2: up to like maybe seventeen Hall of Fame teammates, right.
Speaker 2: So I when I look at players, I begin to
Speaker 2: compare them to the players that I play with. So,
Speaker 2: for instance, I play with Bruce Smith, Derek Thomas, Reggie White.
Speaker 2: So when I'm evaluating past rushers and people are talking about,
Speaker 2: hey man, this guy's I'm like, hey man, these three
Speaker 2: dudes here like the top of the list when it
Speaker 2: comes to South. So I'm looking at Derrick Thomas's get
Speaker 2: off compared to his I'm thinking about Reggie White's ability
Speaker 2: to turn speed into power. I'm looking at Bruce Smith,
Speaker 2: his savvy and his overall Dominans. Do I feel that,
Speaker 2: you know? Do I see that in the players? And
Speaker 2: so you I played with Charles Woodson when he was
Speaker 2: a rookie in Oakland, and so you begin to take
Speaker 2: all those things, all your experiences, and you begin to
Speaker 2: compare and contrast what the greats look like compared to
Speaker 2: somebody that you're evaluating.
Speaker 3: So I think, to me, it gave me a leg a.
Speaker 3: So what have you learned in the game?
Speaker 4: As far as you know, you talked about all these
Speaker 4: these these players that you played with, some good coaches
Speaker 4: that you played for. What's been one of the best
Speaker 4: lessons that you've learned with with all of the players
Speaker 4: and coaches.
Speaker 2: So I think, I think from every coach that you
Speaker 2: play with, you learn different things. So every coach that
Speaker 2: I played with is either in the Hall of Fame
Speaker 2: or Super Bowl champion. And the one exception is Marty
Speaker 2: Shotenham who won two hundred games. So Marv Leav's in
Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame, Mike home Wren will be or
Speaker 2: should be Mike Holren talking to Tom Coughlin, John Grutin.
Speaker 5: So all these guys learn great things.
Speaker 2: And so what I learned is they all went about
Speaker 2: their different their business in different ways, but they all
Speaker 2: kind of came back to the same thing. Man, It's
Speaker 2: all about the preparation and it's about ultimately do you
Speaker 2: perform and the lights come on. Like we can talk
Speaker 2: about all of it, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: you got to prepare. But when the lights come on,
Speaker 2: you got to show up. And that's just what it is.
Speaker 2: And it's the same thing when it comes to like
Speaker 2: doing TV, when in writing or whatever, how much you
Speaker 2: pour into the preparation process will give you the best
Speaker 2: opportunity to perform at a high level. Yea, And so
Speaker 2: it only gives you opportunity. Yeah, you still got to
Speaker 2: make the play.
Speaker 3: Still gotta go out there and do it.
Speaker 2: Still got to make the play. And so to me,
Speaker 2: that's what it is, and that's what you're trying to
Speaker 2: young people. Hey man, do all the work and do it.
Speaker 2: But I always feel like the one thing, if I
Speaker 2: could go back as a player, I might have been
Speaker 2: scared to pour the trick. And so what I would
Speaker 2: always encourage people, Man, take the shot, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Like there are times where and I go
Speaker 2: back and I always said, it's like we're playing in
Speaker 2: San Francisco.
Speaker 5: Forty nine is in a preseason game.
Speaker 2: But I studied the tape and every time Jerry Rice
Speaker 2: lined up at the top of the numbers when the
Speaker 2: ball was there, it was one hundred of speed out
Speaker 2: And so we get there. I'm like, man, there's the tail,
Speaker 2: the boss right there. Let's just like you like, like
Speaker 2: I do I go? It's Jerry Rice, right, So then
Speaker 2: you don't go, but you like, that's to play. But
Speaker 2: then I played with guys because in college, Dre Black
Speaker 2: came right behind me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Drey jumped everything.
Speaker 2: He's going like if if over there, he's going, and
Speaker 2: I was like I would, I'm like, I'm gone, And
Speaker 2: so safety help does matter. But that was Dre and
Speaker 2: so that is the thing. And so I tell people.
Speaker 2: But if you do all that and you trust it,
Speaker 2: you go with And as a coach, I always said,
Speaker 2: I want to give you the freedom to do it.
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to jump you like. That's why
Speaker 2: we talk about having a mentor and having that right coach, because.
Speaker 3: The right coach, I tell you, yes, I got yeah,
Speaker 3: trust your keys.
Speaker 2: And then because you were safe in your corner, we
Speaker 2: know the inner game is that I'm gonna look at hey,
Speaker 2: are he gone? I'm gone, He's But that's but that's
Speaker 2: the thing where in the fraternity you know that, Yes,
Speaker 2: that's how we play where someone gets a players because
Speaker 2: like hey man, hey cover me, I'm going.
Speaker 5: Give me.
Speaker 2: That's that's the communication all the time, Like you did
Speaker 2: that with jour Are the whole time fifteen because I
Speaker 2: was with j No everything all the time.
Speaker 3: We changed our whole defense.
Speaker 1: We went from straight quarters to now we're allowing now
Speaker 1: with the corners allowed to jump anything.
Speaker 3: To the flat, we're over the top. All the time
Speaker 3: they were like so anybody repalmed, were not even be rep.
Speaker 3: We're doing palms the.
Speaker 1: Whole back half of the season because jay No is
Speaker 1: just like he going And so for those listen, the
Speaker 1: palm technique is when the two goes out in the
Speaker 1: corner just jumps yeah to anything out to the flat
Speaker 1: by the second receiver that side. The corners are going
Speaker 1: to jump it, and now the safety has to go
Speaker 1: over the top. So I'm covering number two and then
Speaker 1: until it goes out. Now I'm trying to bust over
Speaker 1: before there's a big honey hall. So yes, that was it,
Speaker 1: all right? Out of all those coaches though you mentioned them,
Speaker 1: hall of fame potential for all of them, if not,
Speaker 1: if not, now they will be.
Speaker 3: Which one's the hardest to play for?
Speaker 2: Okay, because uh, I apologize to him after I played
Speaker 2: for him. So Tom Coughlin, Yeah, so Tom Coughlin, you apologize.
Speaker 3: I apologize because Tom he was tough.
Speaker 2: So so when I go to Jacksonville, So you got
Speaker 2: to understand, I go from playing with the Green Bay Packers.
Speaker 2: We had come off of a Super Bowl appearance and
Speaker 2: they were going right back to Now I go to Jacksonville,
Speaker 2: who's like in their second year as an expansion franchise
Speaker 2: in Green Bay, like they're winning. He comes from San Francisco,
Speaker 2: so everything not only his first class, but it's like
Speaker 2: it's like VET Central, meaning like now I'm a young player,
Speaker 2: but it's a we ain't putting them pass slow down. Oh,
Speaker 2: we ain't dressing up going on the road, like hey,
Speaker 2: we're just going there and play do our thing. Jacksonville.
Speaker 2: You walk in the door, Hey man, it's concentration line.
Speaker 2: We go on the thing. You gotta button everything up.
Speaker 2: You know when I mean button up when you go
Speaker 2: walk out the door to go to the practice field.
Speaker 2: When you're on the practice field, your helmet had to
Speaker 2: be button up at all times, your socks had to
Speaker 2: be up.
Speaker 3: Everybody had to have on the same shorts.
Speaker 5: We're doing this.
Speaker 2: He's looking if you got those little ankle socks. He's like,
Speaker 2: those are issued. Fine, you you go on all yeah,
Speaker 2: you go on the road when we So we're in
Speaker 2: the hotel. So we're in the hotel, like, look, okay,
Speaker 2: we'll be suitting and booted on the plane.
Speaker 3: I can relax.
Speaker 5: We got sweat.
Speaker 2: Oh, if you're out the hotel room, you gotta have
Speaker 2: on khakis and hard bottom shoot and a collar shirt.
Speaker 3: So I'm sitting there, I'm like, what are we doing?
Speaker 2: Like, and what year is this for you? This is
Speaker 2: year three or four? Okay, but I'm sitting here like
Speaker 2: what do we do? And when I first got it,
Speaker 2: we getting drummed.
Speaker 3: I'm like, we're doing it. They say we're not even winning.
Speaker 3: It's not.
Speaker 5: So we do we go to the playoffs or whatever.
Speaker 2: So years later I finished and I started coaching high school.
Speaker 2: And so the high school one went to, all these
Speaker 2: dudes would come out for work up and they got
Speaker 2: on different colors.
Speaker 3: You got on green. The school coach is blue and gold.
Speaker 5: You got on green, you got on rid.
Speaker 3: Then looked like it don't look.
Speaker 5: Like a team. So then I see Coughlin at the combine.
Speaker 5: I said, Coach, I got it.
Speaker 2: Now, I get why you did all that because it
Speaker 2: was driving me crazy. But he was the one that
Speaker 2: was the hardest to play for it because he had
Speaker 2: all these rules, and I was like, these rules, the
Speaker 2: rules makes sense. But he was a great coach, and
Speaker 2: he figured it out for real when he got to
Speaker 2: New York because all those things you got people there.
Speaker 2: They swear by him, They swear by him and the
Speaker 2: tough love and all that other stuff. For me, I
Speaker 2: was a little immature. I couldn't figure it all the
Speaker 2: way out until later I had a greater appreciation. Or hey,
Speaker 2: dot the i's cross the t's. This is how we
Speaker 2: do all this stuff standing across the board.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had I had a friend of mine that
Speaker 1: actually had him at Boston College when he was in college.
Speaker 1: He was like, dude, the dude was tough, like like
Speaker 1: got to be there five minutes early.
Speaker 3: Like it was like he was.
Speaker 1: Like he was like, you know, my family had an accident.
Speaker 3: He's like coach. I don't know if guy might be
Speaker 3: a little bit late. He was like late, like won't
Speaker 3: be here.
Speaker 1: It's like like no excuses, and so it just kind
Speaker 1: of some people don't ever change. And you know he's
Speaker 1: actually thankful for him now. Yeah, like some of the
Speaker 1: things like is that so the funny thing is you're
Speaker 1: lab ye had a high school day? No five minutes
Speaker 1: or hey if.
Speaker 2: You like, so if you don't tell me at eleven,
Speaker 2: it really started ten fifty five. So my thing was
Speaker 2: always that coach, Well, if you wanted to meet and
Speaker 2: started six fifty five, just tell me six to fifty five.
Speaker 2: That tell me seven o'clock. But you want me here
Speaker 2: six fifty five, Like, just tell me the time. And
Speaker 2: I get the same complaints from the kids. I'm like,
Speaker 2: and no, we started at five fifty five.
Speaker 5: Like you know what it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you've you've had successful you know, media, you're
Speaker 2: killing it right now. The scouting, his team's killing it too.
Speaker 2: When he killing it with the with the offense. Mount Rushmore,
Speaker 2: who would you put on that personal Mount Rushmore of mentors, coaches,
Speaker 2: great teammates, the Lord, mom, Dad, I mean it's totally
Speaker 2: it's Mount Rushmore.
Speaker 5: So first personal Mount Rushmore will be my dad.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So my dad is a retired firefighter, but he also
Speaker 2: was a coach.
Speaker 5: He coached Dexter Lawrence in high school. He's a D
Speaker 5: line coach.
Speaker 2: They won I think forty five games in a row
Speaker 2: after decks, but they want to stay title. So I
Speaker 2: get him on. He's on my head every day about coaching.
Speaker 2: What are you doing, how you doing or whatever? He
Speaker 2: goes he coaches in your blood. Yeah, so he goes there.
Speaker 2: Mac Brown, my college coach, goes there because from coach Brown,
Speaker 2: I learned the art of how you treat people. Like
Speaker 2: if you want people to play at the first class level,
Speaker 2: you got to treat them.
Speaker 1: He hands out to Mac Brown. Amazing human being. I
Speaker 1: mean this dude could sell water and.
Speaker 2: Unbelievable communicator, like seeing that if he met you, he
Speaker 2: would meet you five years down from he would know
Speaker 2: what's that first conversation with him. He's that and it's
Speaker 2: a gift that he has. So he was he was
Speaker 2: always that, I would say from a player, the guy
Speaker 2: who helped me the most, James Hasty was an all
Speaker 2: pro corner when I was there, and so when I
Speaker 2: got there, I'm still learning how to play corner. And
Speaker 2: what he did for me was he held me to
Speaker 2: a higher standard than I had ever been held to
Speaker 2: by for a player, because in Kansas City under Martin
Speaker 2: Shaan Hummer, it was a player's driven team. And so
Speaker 2: if you two guys in the secondary, if I'm the
Speaker 2: dime and I come in there and y'all don't really
Speaker 2: like how I get down, y'all would send me out
Speaker 2: and the coaches would respond.
Speaker 5: So that's how that was.
Speaker 2: So Hasty said, no, here's what you're going to You
Speaker 2: can come here on Tuesday at eight o'clock. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: come in at nine o'clock. By nine o'clock, you're gonna
Speaker 2: have a report written on the number one receiver that
Speaker 2: we're playing. But what he did is he was teaching
Speaker 2: me how to prep and get ready, yeah to play.
Speaker 2: And so James Hasty would be there and then I
Speaker 2: would say, like, the last guy like in terms of
Speaker 2: like a personal mentor would be Charles Davis. So Charles
Speaker 2: Davis for me and broadcasting has been everything. And he's
Speaker 2: so good in terms of learning how to prepare, learning
Speaker 2: how to do basic mechanics of like TV. Hey, when
Speaker 2: do you look at the camera when don't you look
Speaker 2: at the camera when you engage in all that? Call
Speaker 2: him about anything when it comes to the business, because
Speaker 2: he is like water.
Speaker 5: Oh, he could do anything. He called golf.
Speaker 2: He can call baseball and call football like he's your
Speaker 2: lifeline if you're on a trivia show and you need
Speaker 2: something who knows random facts.
Speaker 5: CD has always been that guy.
Speaker 3: Well, you know he's good. He was on that. That's
Speaker 3: my guy. Yeah, he's my guy.
Speaker 2: Well, hey, buggy, we appreciate you coming down. We got
Speaker 2: like a thousand more courses, but you got seventy two
Speaker 2: jobs and we know you busy.
Speaker 3: Man. Hey, I just gotta go to work. Mine, gotta
Speaker 3: go to work mine.
Speaker 5: Yeah, man, you know what it is.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it. It's been great granks, man, but appreciate it. Man.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 1: All of our followers and listeners out there, Man, continue
Speaker 1: to do that. Man, We'll continue to bring you great guests.
Speaker 1: I'm on man, Bucky Books right here, and thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Give us a rating of review wherever you
Speaker 1: pick up your.
Speaker 2: Podcast at where there's Apple Podcast or iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3: Please give us a listen.
Speaker 1: Tell a friend to tell a friend to tell a friend, Peanut,
Speaker 1: tell them what we're doing.
Speaker 2: Baby, were out of here. Hey I'm Peanut. That's wrong,
Speaker 2: that's Bucky. This is the NFL Player Second Act Podcast
Speaker 2: from the LA Studios
Speaker 3: And we out