1 00:00:15,082 --> 00:00:17,041 Speaker 1: John and I are on break. Now we're on a 2 00:00:17,082 --> 00:00:21,081 Speaker 1: secret mission, and this before all new Mission Implausible episodes 3 00:00:21,122 --> 00:00:23,642 Speaker 1: come out this fall. But for now we'll bring you 4 00:00:23,682 --> 00:00:26,842 Speaker 1: one of our favorite past episodes and we'll soon be 5 00:00:26,922 --> 00:00:32,762 Speaker 1: launching our YouTube channel. See you there. I'm John Cipher 6 00:00:32,922 --> 00:00:33,842 Speaker 1: and I'm Jerry O'Shea. 7 00:00:34,162 --> 00:00:37,402 Speaker 2: I served in the CIA's Clandestine Service for twenty eight years, 8 00:00:37,442 --> 00:00:39,922 Speaker 2: living undercover all around the world. 9 00:00:39,682 --> 00:00:42,042 Speaker 1: And in my thirty three years with the CIA, I 10 00:00:42,082 --> 00:00:44,922 Speaker 1: served in Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East. 11 00:00:45,082 --> 00:00:47,362 Speaker 2: Although we don't usually look at it this way, we 12 00:00:47,442 --> 00:00:50,121 Speaker 2: created conspiracies in our operations. 13 00:00:50,281 --> 00:00:52,761 Speaker 1: We got people to believe things that weren't true. 14 00:00:52,842 --> 00:00:55,802 Speaker 2: Now we're investigating the conspiracy theories we see in the 15 00:00:55,802 --> 00:00:57,202 Speaker 2: news almost every day. 16 00:00:57,242 --> 00:00:59,522 Speaker 1: Will break them down for you to determine whether they 17 00:00:59,522 --> 00:01:01,882 Speaker 1: could be real or whether we're being manipulated. 18 00:01:02,202 --> 00:01:07,042 Speaker 2: Welcome to Mission Implausibles, you guys. I don't know if 19 00:01:07,081 --> 00:01:10,002 Speaker 2: you're following it, but it's actually been really troubling. This 20 00:01:10,762 --> 00:01:13,922 Speaker 2: Hurricane Helene, which has caused deaths in six or seven 21 00:01:14,002 --> 00:01:17,922 Speaker 2: states in the southeast, has created this torrent of false 22 00:01:18,042 --> 00:01:22,842 Speaker 2: rumors and conspiracy theories and misinformation. But it's actually starting 23 00:01:22,881 --> 00:01:26,041 Speaker 2: to impact lives. People are believing things and being told 24 00:01:26,122 --> 00:01:28,521 Speaker 2: things that are very dangerous that are making them stay 25 00:01:28,562 --> 00:01:31,202 Speaker 2: at home. There's false stories about that the government's going 26 00:01:31,241 --> 00:01:33,441 Speaker 2: to steal and buy their houses, so people aren't leaving 27 00:01:33,441 --> 00:01:36,041 Speaker 2: their houses when they need to. And of course we're 28 00:01:36,081 --> 00:01:40,441 Speaker 2: seeing this awful, obscene thing where former President Donald Trump 29 00:01:40,482 --> 00:01:44,241 Speaker 2: is amplifying these false claims, claiming that the government is 30 00:01:44,282 --> 00:01:47,362 Speaker 2: not doing any help, that they're giving money to migrants 31 00:01:47,402 --> 00:01:49,602 Speaker 2: instead of giving money to people who need it. We're 32 00:01:49,682 --> 00:01:51,642 Speaker 2: used to talking about Donald Trump saying things that are 33 00:01:51,722 --> 00:01:55,322 Speaker 2: untrue are troublesome, but this really hits close to home 34 00:01:55,322 --> 00:01:56,842 Speaker 2: because people are really suffering here. 35 00:01:56,882 --> 00:01:59,882 Speaker 1: So I want to talk about whose theay is. When 36 00:01:59,962 --> 00:02:05,242 Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green, she writes, yes, they control the weather. 37 00:02:06,122 --> 00:02:09,322 Speaker 1: It is ridiculous for anyone to lie and say it 38 00:02:09,362 --> 00:02:13,322 Speaker 1: can't be done. And there's been in this there's been 39 00:02:13,442 --> 00:02:17,482 Speaker 1: other quotes not from her, but saying that this that Milton, 40 00:02:17,562 --> 00:02:20,562 Speaker 1: the next storm coming in is being directed by. 41 00:02:21,002 --> 00:02:26,642 Speaker 3: Them, they to hit I think I get to say us, yeah, yeah. 42 00:02:26,802 --> 00:02:30,162 Speaker 1: There's one more very from Marjorie Taylor Green, and that 43 00:02:30,362 --> 00:02:33,561 Speaker 1: is in April, there was the large earthquake that happened, 44 00:02:33,922 --> 00:02:37,522 Speaker 1: and she said that this was implied it was the government, 45 00:02:37,602 --> 00:02:42,722 Speaker 1: but also said that this was God judging her political rivals, 46 00:02:42,922 --> 00:02:46,002 Speaker 1: and so who are her rivals the day them? And 47 00:02:46,082 --> 00:02:49,842 Speaker 1: Adam is a representative which your initial take on. 48 00:02:50,042 --> 00:02:52,841 Speaker 3: Is, I honestly, I feel like the Vermonder Tisenal cheese 49 00:02:52,841 --> 00:02:54,681 Speaker 3: community has just stood by. 50 00:02:56,082 --> 00:02:56,642 Speaker 2: Too long. 51 00:02:57,042 --> 00:02:59,242 Speaker 3: We can't Yeah, no, it's Jews. 52 00:02:59,482 --> 00:03:01,362 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's Democrats more than Jews. 53 00:03:01,962 --> 00:03:04,562 Speaker 3: The first of all, I love it's very sweetheart. You 54 00:03:04,561 --> 00:03:06,442 Speaker 3: think she thinks of those as two separate groups. But 55 00:03:06,602 --> 00:03:11,561 Speaker 3: the whole great replacement theory is that Jews are controlling 56 00:03:12,002 --> 00:03:16,362 Speaker 3: minorities and using the Democratic Party to replace white people. 57 00:03:16,802 --> 00:03:18,922 Speaker 3: But there's something great about they because it gets to 58 00:03:18,962 --> 00:03:22,962 Speaker 3: be anyone's day. It's a malleable. I mean, you look 59 00:03:23,042 --> 00:03:27,482 Speaker 3: at all the Jewish Trump supporters, who Laura Lumer is Jewish, 60 00:03:27,522 --> 00:03:30,722 Speaker 3: and so she has a whole world of they that 61 00:03:30,882 --> 00:03:34,322 Speaker 3: somehow doesn't include herself, even though most of her confederates 62 00:03:34,482 --> 00:03:37,402 Speaker 3: think they is Jews. You know, my degree is history 63 00:03:37,442 --> 00:03:42,642 Speaker 3: of religion. When you look at the Bible, the Egyptian myths, 64 00:03:43,042 --> 00:03:48,201 Speaker 3: the Sumerian myths, it is a lot about these forces 65 00:03:48,362 --> 00:03:53,082 Speaker 3: floods and famine and heat that are hard to understand, 66 00:03:53,202 --> 00:03:58,002 Speaker 3: These giant forces that come in and reek havoc on 67 00:03:58,442 --> 00:04:02,602 Speaker 3: everyday life. And you read about the Greek gods, the 68 00:04:02,682 --> 00:04:06,041 Speaker 3: Roman gods, the Norse gods, Chinese gods. 69 00:04:06,242 --> 00:04:07,962 Speaker 2: I was reading about Canadian gods. 70 00:04:08,322 --> 00:04:10,962 Speaker 3: That's mostly about hockey, I believe, but it's a lot 71 00:04:11,002 --> 00:04:13,562 Speaker 3: about controlling the weather. And more than that, it's about 72 00:04:13,802 --> 00:04:16,962 Speaker 3: we have this chaos in our lives, this uncontrollable chaos, 73 00:04:16,962 --> 00:04:19,722 Speaker 3: and there's this type of mentality that's like I need 74 00:04:19,762 --> 00:04:23,162 Speaker 3: to put order on that chaos. And as awful as 75 00:04:23,202 --> 00:04:26,162 Speaker 3: it might be to think some small group of elites 76 00:04:26,202 --> 00:04:30,082 Speaker 3: are destroying the world, maybe that's more pleasing to the 77 00:04:30,122 --> 00:04:33,802 Speaker 3: brain in some way. Then there's just chaos. 78 00:04:33,802 --> 00:04:37,642 Speaker 2: Elon Musk labeled FEMA's actions quote treason and supported the 79 00:04:37,722 --> 00:04:41,282 Speaker 2: view that Harris and Homeland Security majorcas quote should be 80 00:04:41,402 --> 00:04:44,442 Speaker 2: jailed for life for spending FEMA money on illegal aliens 81 00:04:44,482 --> 00:04:47,562 Speaker 2: and not Americans, which is just totally funns insane. 82 00:04:48,002 --> 00:04:50,082 Speaker 1: I want to go back to when John was young, 83 00:04:50,442 --> 00:04:53,602 Speaker 1: the year eleven ninety. This is actually quite a sad 84 00:04:53,602 --> 00:04:58,722 Speaker 1: and somber story, but the entire Jewish community of York 85 00:04:58,962 --> 00:05:02,402 Speaker 1: in Northern England was massacred. Every they were killed to 86 00:05:02,482 --> 00:05:04,722 Speaker 1: the person. So they all went to the tower in 87 00:05:04,882 --> 00:05:08,962 Speaker 1: York and the local villagers besieged them and eventually murdered 88 00:05:08,962 --> 00:05:12,041 Speaker 1: them all. And the reason for that, at least given 89 00:05:12,202 --> 00:05:14,482 Speaker 1: was that there was a local drought going on and 90 00:05:14,562 --> 00:05:17,482 Speaker 1: they needed someone to blame, and so they looked around 91 00:05:17,562 --> 00:05:21,682 Speaker 1: and it was basically they blamed the Jews for stealing 92 00:05:21,722 --> 00:05:27,242 Speaker 1: babies and witchcraft. They brought the drought to northern England. 93 00:05:27,762 --> 00:05:32,242 Speaker 1: And these are people who were desperate, afraid, hungry, looking 94 00:05:32,282 --> 00:05:35,962 Speaker 1: at starvation, and they had an upper class who was 95 00:05:36,042 --> 00:05:38,601 Speaker 1: pointing at the Jews. And I think your point about 96 00:05:38,642 --> 00:05:42,402 Speaker 1: weather because it's existential. It's where food comes from, prices, 97 00:05:42,442 --> 00:05:46,682 Speaker 1: everything depends on the plants you grow for clothing and food. 98 00:05:47,162 --> 00:05:50,602 Speaker 1: And yeah, back to today. Rather than talking difficult conversations 99 00:05:50,642 --> 00:05:55,322 Speaker 1: about climate change and the impact on hurricanes, which by 100 00:05:55,322 --> 00:05:57,402 Speaker 1: the way, the Republican Party doesn't want to talk about, 101 00:05:57,522 --> 00:06:00,682 Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five wants to get rid of Noah. 102 00:06:00,802 --> 00:06:02,802 Speaker 1: They want to privatize it. So you got to pay 103 00:06:03,002 --> 00:06:05,602 Speaker 1: to know where the hurricanes coming at your house or 104 00:06:05,842 --> 00:06:09,082 Speaker 1: the flash flood And Marjorie Taylor Green is touched on 105 00:06:09,162 --> 00:06:14,242 Speaker 1: something that is really basic and core to human existence. 106 00:06:14,642 --> 00:06:18,562 Speaker 3: By that still doesn't like Fox News. And I mean, 107 00:06:18,562 --> 00:06:22,122 Speaker 3: I was saying, lawyer Ingraham going on and Tucker Carlson 108 00:06:22,282 --> 00:06:26,082 Speaker 3: and Elon Musk they know better. They're using this deep 109 00:06:26,562 --> 00:06:30,202 Speaker 3: well of human fear and hunger for some kind of 110 00:06:30,322 --> 00:06:35,202 Speaker 3: rational explanation in a very targeted, weaponized way. It's disgusting. 111 00:06:35,562 --> 00:06:37,002 Speaker 2: Let's take a break. We'll be right back. 112 00:06:38,282 --> 00:06:41,402 Speaker 1: And we're back. So there is something called HARP, which 113 00:06:41,442 --> 00:06:46,322 Speaker 1: is the High Frequency Active Oral Research program funded by 114 00:06:46,322 --> 00:06:50,402 Speaker 1: the US Defense Department and the University of Alaska. And 115 00:06:50,882 --> 00:06:53,282 Speaker 1: we here in the United States by and large have 116 00:06:53,402 --> 00:06:58,282 Speaker 1: not heard of HARP or the HARP conspiracies. But as 117 00:06:58,402 --> 00:07:03,002 Speaker 1: recently as this summer, the Russians have been claiming that 118 00:07:03,242 --> 00:07:08,002 Speaker 1: HARP is responsible for the drought going on right now 119 00:07:08,442 --> 00:07:12,042 Speaker 1: in Crimea. I've got something that says as Muscavites suffer 120 00:07:12,122 --> 00:07:15,642 Speaker 1: high temperatures this summer, Russian political science have claimed that 121 00:07:15,682 --> 00:07:19,722 Speaker 1: the United States may be using climate change weapons to 122 00:07:19,882 --> 00:07:23,362 Speaker 1: alter the temperature and crop yields of Russia and other 123 00:07:23,522 --> 00:07:29,562 Speaker 1: Central Asian countries, forcing out food prices and generally inflation. 124 00:07:29,642 --> 00:07:31,202 Speaker 1: In general, as opposed to the war. 125 00:07:31,162 --> 00:07:32,922 Speaker 2: That's happening here. There is a good article in the 126 00:07:32,922 --> 00:07:37,442 Speaker 2: New York Times recently about geo engineering. So geoengineering is 127 00:07:37,482 --> 00:07:40,402 Speaker 2: a real thing. It's about scientists are trying to inject 128 00:07:40,442 --> 00:07:43,442 Speaker 2: aerosols into the atmosphere because scientists think they may be 129 00:07:43,442 --> 00:07:46,282 Speaker 2: able to reflect some of the Sun's heat back into space. 130 00:07:46,922 --> 00:07:50,282 Speaker 2: But then recently Republican lawmakers in Tennessee voted to ban 131 00:07:50,562 --> 00:07:53,482 Speaker 2: solar geoengineering, and people are like, why the hell did 132 00:07:53,482 --> 00:07:56,322 Speaker 2: they want to do that. No one's geoengineering in Tennessee, 133 00:07:56,442 --> 00:07:59,242 Speaker 2: and did these people even understand this? And so this 134 00:07:59,722 --> 00:08:02,122 Speaker 2: New York Times reported dug into it and found out 135 00:08:02,122 --> 00:08:05,482 Speaker 2: that the specific people pushing for this ban are like 136 00:08:05,522 --> 00:08:09,642 Speaker 2: these conspiracy theorists and vaccine skeptics who are pushing to 137 00:08:09,682 --> 00:08:12,762 Speaker 2: ban this across the country. And they're tying it to 138 00:08:13,162 --> 00:08:15,082 Speaker 2: what we talked about in one of our episodes, a 139 00:08:15,162 --> 00:08:18,922 Speaker 2: chem trails conspiracy theory, saying that you know, the government's 140 00:08:19,002 --> 00:08:23,122 Speaker 2: using airplanes to inject dangerous chemicals in the atmosphere through chemtrails, 141 00:08:23,322 --> 00:08:26,122 Speaker 2: and that's what geoengineering is, when, of course none of 142 00:08:26,122 --> 00:08:27,042 Speaker 2: those things are true. 143 00:08:27,282 --> 00:08:31,122 Speaker 1: Every conspiracy theory has a grain of truth. And I 144 00:08:31,162 --> 00:08:33,842 Speaker 1: think people will write in and say, aha, but what 145 00:08:34,042 --> 00:08:39,162 Speaker 1: about Operation Popeye. Operation Popeye was not a cio CIA 146 00:08:39,242 --> 00:08:42,602 Speaker 1: have been involved, but it was US Defense Department and 147 00:08:42,682 --> 00:08:45,282 Speaker 1: this was in nineteen sixty seven, and what it was 148 00:08:45,322 --> 00:08:48,522 Speaker 1: basically cloud seating over the Ho Chi Minh trail and 149 00:08:48,682 --> 00:08:51,922 Speaker 1: the motto was make mud not war. They wanted to 150 00:08:51,962 --> 00:08:54,602 Speaker 1: make the trails muddy so that they couldn't bring in 151 00:08:54,682 --> 00:08:58,402 Speaker 1: weapons to kill American servicemen in South Vietnam, slow the 152 00:08:58,442 --> 00:09:02,482 Speaker 1: trail down. And my understanding is that Operation Popeye was 153 00:09:02,522 --> 00:09:04,082 Speaker 1: a complete failure. 154 00:09:04,442 --> 00:09:07,562 Speaker 2: When you say real world impact, I mean that's what's 155 00:09:07,602 --> 00:09:11,162 Speaker 2: happening right now in the South United States. There's viral 156 00:09:11,282 --> 00:09:15,802 Speaker 2: things online, falsehoods that the government is bulldoz using bodies 157 00:09:15,962 --> 00:09:19,202 Speaker 2: under the rubble, and there was one claim that the 158 00:09:19,242 --> 00:09:23,322 Speaker 2: government is doing secret lithium mining and pushing people out 159 00:09:23,322 --> 00:09:25,282 Speaker 2: of their homes to try to buy the land. And 160 00:09:25,362 --> 00:09:28,162 Speaker 2: this is I think in North Carolina, Rutherford County, the 161 00:09:28,282 --> 00:09:31,162 Speaker 2: commissioner said the only lithium for sale in Rutherford County 162 00:09:31,202 --> 00:09:33,682 Speaker 2: is at the local lows in a nine volt battery 163 00:09:33,762 --> 00:09:34,482 Speaker 2: you can buy there. 164 00:09:35,042 --> 00:09:38,682 Speaker 3: I've covered a lot of disaster. There's always chaos. I mean, 165 00:09:38,722 --> 00:09:43,482 Speaker 3: by definition, it's really hard to figure out when powers 166 00:09:43,602 --> 00:09:46,762 Speaker 3: down and people aren't there and roads are impassable. Like, 167 00:09:46,802 --> 00:09:49,242 Speaker 3: It's just it's a hard job with the best of 168 00:09:49,282 --> 00:09:52,402 Speaker 3: intentions and lots of resources. And I'm not here to 169 00:09:52,442 --> 00:09:55,042 Speaker 3: say FEMA has done everything perfectly, although from what I 170 00:09:55,162 --> 00:09:58,402 Speaker 3: understand and from the Republican governors in most of these states, 171 00:09:58,402 --> 00:10:01,402 Speaker 3: they've done a fairly good job. I mean, I covered Katrina. 172 00:10:01,442 --> 00:10:03,722 Speaker 3: They really did a terrible job. I witnessed it. It 173 00:10:03,762 --> 00:10:06,402 Speaker 3: was bad. But it sounds like they've done a fairly 174 00:10:06,442 --> 00:10:09,442 Speaker 3: good job here. But what's amazing is the specific things 175 00:10:09,482 --> 00:10:12,562 Speaker 3: Trump is accusing them of doing is what he did, 176 00:10:13,122 --> 00:10:16,802 Speaker 3: Like they are not politicized, but he did. He did 177 00:10:16,882 --> 00:10:20,962 Speaker 3: withhold resources from blue states, and he talked about that 178 00:10:21,242 --> 00:10:25,642 Speaker 3: and that he would withhold resources from towns and cities 179 00:10:25,682 --> 00:10:28,602 Speaker 3: and states where the leaders didn't suck up to him. 180 00:10:28,722 --> 00:10:32,802 Speaker 3: Remember Gavin Newsom kissing his butt. That kind of governance, 181 00:10:33,162 --> 00:10:35,602 Speaker 3: which is what I saw in Iraq and elsewhere. We're 182 00:10:35,642 --> 00:10:40,242 Speaker 3: flattering the leader is the way to get resources. Not 183 00:10:40,402 --> 00:10:44,562 Speaker 3: needing the resources or justifying the resources is maddening. And 184 00:10:44,602 --> 00:10:48,762 Speaker 3: then the fact that they can weaponize that and now 185 00:10:48,762 --> 00:10:53,602 Speaker 3: I'm saying they, but I specifically mean the propaganda apparatus 186 00:10:53,642 --> 00:10:54,562 Speaker 3: in support of Trump. 187 00:10:54,682 --> 00:10:58,522 Speaker 1: Yeah, so not only Ada Adam, but Trump took millions 188 00:10:58,962 --> 00:11:00,402 Speaker 1: and I'd have to look up the figure, but he 189 00:11:00,442 --> 00:11:04,802 Speaker 1: took multiple millions of dollars from FEMA, and he put 190 00:11:04,842 --> 00:11:09,922 Speaker 1: it toward incarcerating illegal migrants coming in over the border. 191 00:11:10,002 --> 00:11:15,082 Speaker 1: So what he was accusing this administration of, he actually did. 192 00:11:15,202 --> 00:11:17,482 Speaker 2: Which is often what happens. Isn't that the things that 193 00:11:17,522 --> 00:11:18,882 Speaker 2: he accuses others of. 194 00:11:18,882 --> 00:11:20,842 Speaker 3: Is Yeah, the accusations are confessed. 195 00:11:20,962 --> 00:11:23,682 Speaker 1: Yeah, as you know, I like to quote, you know, 196 00:11:23,762 --> 00:11:26,802 Speaker 1: like Schopenhauer and Goute. But there's the you know, there's 197 00:11:26,842 --> 00:11:29,602 Speaker 1: the whole point of you know, he who dealt it smelted? 198 00:11:29,842 --> 00:11:31,122 Speaker 2: Was that Schopenhauer who said that? 199 00:11:32,122 --> 00:11:33,322 Speaker 3: I believe that was Kant. 200 00:11:34,522 --> 00:11:37,242 Speaker 2: There's a lot to laugh about here. But there's people 201 00:11:37,482 --> 00:11:40,482 Speaker 2: potentially dying. There's people staying in their homes as this 202 00:11:40,602 --> 00:11:44,282 Speaker 2: new hurricane comes because they've been told the government's going 203 00:11:44,362 --> 00:11:46,202 Speaker 2: to seize their home and steal their land. 204 00:11:46,402 --> 00:11:49,202 Speaker 3: It is very shameful. But I will say, if I, like, 205 00:11:49,242 --> 00:11:51,562 Speaker 3: if I had to come up with a conspiracy theory, 206 00:11:51,762 --> 00:11:54,242 Speaker 3: like you said, got you have to. I think weather 207 00:11:54,362 --> 00:11:59,162 Speaker 3: is a pretty good one. It's big, uncontrollable forces. You 208 00:11:59,242 --> 00:12:02,242 Speaker 3: put a narrative on it, Boom, you got it. 209 00:12:02,562 --> 00:12:05,202 Speaker 1: I want to quote Hannah. Aren't for a second, And 210 00:12:05,242 --> 00:12:09,202 Speaker 1: this is this constant lie is not she's talking about 211 00:12:09,202 --> 00:12:11,722 Speaker 1: the so the union here, this constant lie is not 212 00:12:11,802 --> 00:12:15,762 Speaker 1: intended to make people believe a lie, to make no 213 00:12:15,802 --> 00:12:20,761 Speaker 1: one believe anything anymore. A people that can no longer 214 00:12:20,802 --> 00:12:26,122 Speaker 1: distinguish distinguished between truth and falsehood, cannot distinguish between right 215 00:12:26,202 --> 00:12:26,682 Speaker 1: and wrong. 216 00:12:27,602 --> 00:12:30,922 Speaker 3: Yeah that feels a little too relevant. Yeah, well you 217 00:12:31,002 --> 00:12:34,802 Speaker 3: made me really depressed. No, next time we'll be one 218 00:12:34,842 --> 00:12:38,322 Speaker 3: of the fun conspiracy things that lifts up this human spirit, 219 00:12:38,682 --> 00:12:40,881 Speaker 3: and that's something we can all celebrate great. 220 00:12:45,402 --> 00:12:50,442 Speaker 4: Mission Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'shay, John Cipher, 221 00:12:50,762 --> 00:12:55,162 Speaker 4: and Jonathan Stern. The associate producer is Rachel Harner. Mission 222 00:12:55,202 --> 00:12:59,202 Speaker 4: Implausible is a production of honorable mention and abominable pictures 223 00:12:59,282 --> 00:13:00,641 Speaker 4: for iHeart Podcasts.