WEBVTT - France's Marine Le Pen Talks Government Collapse

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Ben, thank you so

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<v Speaker 1>much for joining us on Bloomberg TV. Let me ask

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<v Speaker 1>you what you see as the way forward.

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<v Speaker 2>But well, the Prime Minister and his government have just

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<v Speaker 2>fallen because of a budget that we felt was extremely

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<v Speaker 2>bad for the country. A new prime Minister will most

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<v Speaker 2>certainly be appointed this evening and he will form his

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<v Speaker 2>government quickly and we'll go back to the drawing board.

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<v Speaker 2>That is to say, we'll work again on a budget

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<v Speaker 2>that is likely to be able to renew France with growth,

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<v Speaker 2>with the creation of wealth, without hitting the French people

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<v Speaker 2>with a very French problem, which is taxes.

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<v Speaker 1>L you've asked yesterday, or you've said yesterday that the

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<v Speaker 1>President macn does not need to resign. Why not?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, in any case, what I said that the president's

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<v Speaker 2>resignation is a personal decision on his behalf and can

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<v Speaker 2>only take place in my view, when a political crisis

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<v Speaker 2>takes place or an institutional crisis can find no other

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<v Speaker 2>solution than the resignation of the President of the Republic.

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<v Speaker 2>It is not the case for the moment. What I

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<v Speaker 2>do wish, on the other hand, because for sure there

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<v Speaker 2>will be new legislative elections in the next few months.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that we work on a voting system by then

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<v Speaker 2>that enables us to have a real majority, whatever that

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<v Speaker 2>majority may be. But the country needs a majority. It

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<v Speaker 2>can't live for months and years with three blocks, which

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<v Speaker 2>in reality can't implement a policy.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you resign if you're a president of France today.

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<v Speaker 2>I would hope that I wouldn't find myself in mister

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<v Speaker 2>mccron's situation, because, after all, he is majorly responsible for

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<v Speaker 2>this situation, because the result of my Aniel Macron on

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<v Speaker 2>an economic level are extremely bad. He introduced himself as

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<v Speaker 2>being the Mozart of finance, but the reality is when

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<v Speaker 2>you look at the figures when he came, and the

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<v Speaker 2>figures today were not even drifting. We're going down a slope.

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<v Speaker 2>Whether we're talking about debt, just to remind you, in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen, two thousand, two hundred billion of debt now

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<v Speaker 2>three thousand, three hundred billion of debt, whether we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about industry nine percent of GDP in twenty seventeen, sorry

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<v Speaker 2>I meant eleven percent in twenty seventeen, nine percent today,

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<v Speaker 2>and the commercial deficit seventy billion to one hundred billion

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<v Speaker 2>deficits that have increased in a spectacular way. We were

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<v Speaker 2>at two point six percent of GDP in twenty seventeen,

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<v Speaker 2>now we're at six point one percent. So he has

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<v Speaker 2>placed the country in such an appalling situation from an

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<v Speaker 2>economic point of view that I don't really want to

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<v Speaker 2>compare myself to him.

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<v Speaker 3>Economic.

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<v Speaker 1>But this latest budget and Monsieur Vamier was actually considered

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<v Speaker 1>very respectable, liked by the markets in terms of the budget,

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<v Speaker 1>and he gave your party quite a lot of concessions.

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<v Speaker 2>And well, first of all, that's wrong, and that's not

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<v Speaker 2>what we're talking about. What we're talking about is that

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<v Speaker 2>we can't consider and I can't imagine the markets considered

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<v Speaker 2>that a good budget is a budget when in fact

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<v Speaker 2>we have record taxation within Europe that increases taxes by

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<v Speaker 2>another forty billion, and that four billion of extra taxes

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<v Speaker 2>on companies is good news at a time when we

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<v Speaker 2>had sixty five thousand companies going out of business, that

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<v Speaker 2>is to say, a record last year, at a moment

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<v Speaker 2>when unemployment is increasing again and once again there were

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred and sixty redundancy plans throughout the country. And

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<v Speaker 2>the budget was bad. And not only did it give

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<v Speaker 2>rise to enormous extra taxes, but there were no savings

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<v Speaker 2>as far as the state was concerned.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going for a example, sur.

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<v Speaker 2>The elephant in the room, if you will, is the

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<v Speaker 2>state's TX expending, which carries on going up and up

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<v Speaker 2>and up, linked first of all to a multitude of waste,

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<v Speaker 2>thousands of agencies, various institutes, which of course cost a fortune,

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<v Speaker 2>and then of course linked to immigration. Let's be clear

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<v Speaker 2>about things. When there are five hundred thousand people that

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<v Speaker 2>are coming into our country per year and only ten

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<v Speaker 2>percent have got a work contract, how do we expect

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<v Speaker 2>our social security system to take on this considerable weight

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<v Speaker 2>of people who for ninety percent of them will not

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<v Speaker 2>participate to the creation of wealth.

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<v Speaker 1>But when you do the numbers, what can you promise

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<v Speaker 1>the markets in terms of deficit? So this latest budget

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<v Speaker 1>proposal meant the deficit would be five percent of GDP

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<v Speaker 1>next year and then three percent in twenty twenty nine,

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<v Speaker 1>you promise similar numbers.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I believe the markets would be right not to

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<v Speaker 2>be contended simply with promises, especially when the promises can't

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<v Speaker 2>be kept, Because, after all, the major difficulty in this

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<v Speaker 2>area is that we've got to be able to make

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<v Speaker 2>structural savings with regard to the functioning of the state,

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<v Speaker 2>but at the same time recreate the conditions for wealth,

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<v Speaker 2>that is to say, reindustrialization, to act on aspects that

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<v Speaker 2>are essential, like, for example, the cost of energy, because

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<v Speaker 2>after all, it's the cost of energy which is really

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<v Speaker 2>the key to all of this. And we mustn't strangle

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<v Speaker 2>the economy. If you want to go too fast, you've

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<v Speaker 2>got to have a trajectory that's a reasonable trajectory based

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<v Speaker 2>on the creation of wealth and structural savings, rather than

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<v Speaker 2>saying you will see we're going to reduce the deficit

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<v Speaker 2>by two points over three years, and in fact you're

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<v Speaker 2>doing things that are so appalling that people no longer

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<v Speaker 2>spend money, and they save too much. There is no

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<v Speaker 2>longer any investment, and the economy collapses. And so we

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to submit to deficits. It's been fifty years

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<v Speaker 2>that we've been passing budgets with chronic deficits. We no

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<v Speaker 2>longer want to be in that modus operandi. We want

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<v Speaker 2>to reabsorb the deficits, but we want to do it

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<v Speaker 2>intelligently without depriving us of the chance to reindustrialize, to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to help companies, to count on them to

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<v Speaker 2>create wealth and therefore to also create employment, and to

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<v Speaker 2>make young people work, because after all, that's also the

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<v Speaker 2>central problem, because if young people don't work, then social

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<v Speaker 2>protection systems will be unbalanced. So all of those aspects

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<v Speaker 2>are equilibriums that we have to try to find.

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<v Speaker 1>So, in terms of numbers, three percent of GDP and

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty nine is far fetched.

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<v Speaker 2>Getting to three percent in twenty twenty nine, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think it's credible, but I'm not the only one. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think it's credible either. To the President of the

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<v Speaker 2>Corte de Compte State Order, once again, these are simply

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<v Speaker 2>promises and they know very well that they can't keep

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<v Speaker 2>to them. Mister Barney made that promise and in reality

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<v Speaker 2>his budget worsened the deficit by twelve billion. So if

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<v Speaker 2>we don't make significant intelligent structural savings with regard to

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<v Speaker 2>the state, and if we don't put in place the

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<v Speaker 2>conditions so that companies can work invest without being suffocated

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<v Speaker 2>with extra taxes, we won't get there. But with those

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<v Speaker 2>two solutions we can succeed as quickly as possible to

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<v Speaker 2>get back to a reasonable deficit. Even if the three

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<v Speaker 2>percent was just decided on the back of an envelope,

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<v Speaker 2>how fast could.

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<v Speaker 1>That be.

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<v Speaker 2>To Well, it's a matter of weeks. We'll discuss it

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<v Speaker 2>with the new Prime minister. We'll work together, we'll explain

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<v Speaker 2>what our red lines are. Our red lines are. We

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<v Speaker 2>can't ask the French people to pay the bill for

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<v Speaker 2>the mistakes of their leaders. That's what mister Barney did.

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<v Speaker 2>He massively increases taxation. He hits sick people, retired people,

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<v Speaker 2>he hits everyone. And at the same time, once again,

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<v Speaker 2>there's zero savings from the state. And that's inadmissible.

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<v Speaker 3>For surely time that.

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<v Speaker 1>Who would you like as prime minister?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's not for me to choose. That really is

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<v Speaker 2>the role of the President of the Republic. It's his responsibility.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't really care about the name. I care

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<v Speaker 2>about the method. I want the Prime minister to respect

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<v Speaker 2>all the political forces that are represented at the National Assembly.

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<v Speaker 2>It's quite simply called democracy.

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<v Speaker 1>What can President Macun do today for your voters.

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<v Speaker 2>But leave Well, no, there isn't a solution. Immanuel Macron

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<v Speaker 2>will never do very much in reality, and he's not

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<v Speaker 2>going to give up on what he's been doing for

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<v Speaker 2>seven years, destroyed everything. He's destroyed everything in seven years.

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<v Speaker 2>Lat He destroyed what used to function in our state,

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<v Speaker 2>the prefectural etcetera. He destroyed France's load bearing walls. He's

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<v Speaker 2>caused massive de industrialization, He's crushed the French people with taxation.

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<v Speaker 2>He's done everything he wasn't supposed to do. So I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not going to, for example, have any hope that tomorrow

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<v Speaker 2>he'll be able to do absolutely the opposite of what

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<v Speaker 2>he's done over seven years. Now, once again we will

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<v Speaker 2>have to make do as long as he's there by

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<v Speaker 2>hoping that the Prime Minister will be more reasonable than

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<v Speaker 2>he is.

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<v Speaker 1>Not. Even a referendum on immigration would would make a difference.

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<v Speaker 2>He could have a referendum on immigration, but he won't

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<v Speaker 2>do it because, after all, he said, I'm prepared to

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<v Speaker 2>do a referendum on every subject apart from immigration. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's kind of a taboo that we can't understand the

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<v Speaker 2>justification for, because it's obvious that immigration that is totally

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<v Speaker 2>out of control like we're living through, is not only

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<v Speaker 2>a problem as far as our public finances are concerned,

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<v Speaker 2>it's also a problem in terms of the consequences it

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<v Speaker 2>has with regards to the explosion of delinquency. So I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think he'll ever touch immigration vill.

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<v Speaker 1>Go Len, But why not ask him to leave them

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<v Speaker 1>before twenty twenty seven, even if the institutions say otherwise.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, because to ask him to resign would mean to

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<v Speaker 2>disturb our institutions. Once again, it's his decision now if

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<v Speaker 2>there is a political crisis, an institutional crisis, and if

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<v Speaker 2>he can no longer dissolve the assembly, if reshuffles serve

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<v Speaker 2>no purpose and the French constitution only leaves other option,

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<v Speaker 2>which is his resignation. But that wouldn't be a drama either.

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<v Speaker 2>There would be new presidential elections. General DeGaulle, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>designed our institutions and they are very solid. They are

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<v Speaker 2>extremely solid. Everything's done to make sure that the life

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<v Speaker 2>of the nation can carry on and not create disturbances

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<v Speaker 2>that can't be dealt with. If he were to resign now,

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<v Speaker 2>there would be new presidential elections and new legislative elections.

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<v Speaker 1>But but are you worried about these crisis and leading

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<v Speaker 1>to severe market reactions.

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<v Speaker 2>Not no, because the reality is that what worries the

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<v Speaker 2>markets is the economic situation in France. What worries the

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<v Speaker 2>markets is the lack of perspective concerning reducing deficits. It's

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<v Speaker 2>the absence of savings at the state level, the increase

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<v Speaker 2>of taxation on companies that worries the markets. And in

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<v Speaker 2>fact you've seen the markets have remained extremely stable over

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<v Speaker 2>the past few days since the announcement of the no

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<v Speaker 2>confidence vote, and even after the no confidence vote. In reality,

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<v Speaker 2>they had concerns at the moment of the dissolution in June.

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<v Speaker 2>But for the moment, whether it's the spread between France

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<v Speaker 2>and Germany and the rates or the markets, for the moment,

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<v Speaker 2>everything is relatively calm because once again they realized that anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>there has to be at all cost another policy other

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<v Speaker 2>than that envisaged by mister Barnier.

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<v Speaker 1>But the market is probably looking at the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>the ECB is standing close and that there's a want

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<v Speaker 1>from France of getting the deficit down pretty quickly.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I mean, I'm going to.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yes, but once again there's a long way to

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<v Speaker 2>go between wishes and reality. Mister Barnier wanted to reduce

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<v Speaker 2>the deficits, he's increased them by twelve billion, you see

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<v Speaker 2>what I mean. So once again using a hammer to

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<v Speaker 2>bash French people over the heads with attack is when

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<v Speaker 2>we're the country with the highest rate of taxation in Europe.

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<v Speaker 2>Is not the solution, but it's the only solution that

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<v Speaker 2>French leaders have implemented for years. It doesn't work, sufunction

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<v Speaker 2>a situation. Look at the situation we find ourselves in.

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<v Speaker 2>So help companies enable them to do business. Reduce production tax,

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<v Speaker 2>reduce the cost of energy or at least reduce it

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<v Speaker 2>to the same level as the cost of production in France.

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<v Speaker 2>Those are things that will allow companies to develop and

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<v Speaker 2>thus create employment.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, first of all that the Bagnier actually proposal

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<v Speaker 1>means that you know GDP would be the deficit of

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<v Speaker 1>GDP would be five percent in twenty twenty five compared

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<v Speaker 1>to six percent this year, so it's going down, no knowing.

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<v Speaker 2>No, the deficit rose by twelve billion. The deficit rose

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<v Speaker 2>by twelve billion. But you know, the head of Saffron,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a major company, has just given an interview,

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<v Speaker 2>and what did the head of Saffron say. He said,

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<v Speaker 2>Barnier's budget is a bad budget. So in reality, the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that it's last year's budget that's applied, however unfair

0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.800
<v Speaker 2>it will socially, is actually rather good news for companies.

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.320
<v Speaker 2>There are a certain number of entrepreneurs in economic circles

0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.760
<v Speaker 2>who are in fact pleased about the no confidence motion

0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.040
<v Speaker 2>because they consider mister Barnier's budget was worse than last

0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.040
<v Speaker 2>year's budget, and that's saying something.

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Will you meet Trump when he's here for the reopening

0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:33.960
<v Speaker 1>of Notre Dame on Saturday.

0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, I won't meet with him, but maybe we'll bump

0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:38.320
<v Speaker 2>into each other, because I will indeed be there too

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 2>at the reopening of Notre Dame, which is a major

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.840
<v Speaker 2>event for us in France. I don't have any relationship

0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 2>with Donald Trump. I will have one. I hope the

0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 2>day have become president of the Republic.

0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 1>You have a trial against you that will decide whether

0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.840
<v Speaker 1>you can run for president that we're expecting that outcome

0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.560
<v Speaker 1>on the thirty first of March. Will John N. Badella be,

0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.840
<v Speaker 1>of course candidate for presidency if you cannot present yourself.

0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't place myself in that situation of being prevented

0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.320
<v Speaker 2>from being a candidate by the justice system. I think

0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.800
<v Speaker 2>that in any country it's not acceptable to stop a

0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.680
<v Speaker 2>candidate from representing themselves, and therefore I don't think about

0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:24.400
<v Speaker 2>that situation. I hope that the magistrates will respect the

0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:27.080
<v Speaker 2>will of the voters to be able to choose their candidates.

0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:29.720
<v Speaker 2>I have an African friend who sent me a text

0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:33.360
<v Speaker 2>after the raids carried out against me and said, look, Marine,

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.760
<v Speaker 2>there are some countries where people don't have the right

0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.680
<v Speaker 2>to vote, and there are countries where candidates aren't allowed

0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:42.320
<v Speaker 2>to stand for election. In fact, I prefer countries where

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.920
<v Speaker 2>people can vote and candidates can stand for election.

0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Has it changed your thinking in actually you know, dealing

0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:52.600
<v Speaker 1>with the budget?

0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Absolute, absolutely not. It has nothing to do with it.

0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 2>In fact, I don't see the relationship between the two.

0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.320
<v Speaker 2>My only compass is the interests of the French people,

0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.680
<v Speaker 2>the interests of our companies and the future of my country.

0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.200
<v Speaker 2>That's the only compass I've always had and we'll ever have.