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Speaker 1: Route Force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails and

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Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community.

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Speaker 2: Hi, welcome back to a special edition of soft Rep Radio.

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Speaker 2: I am your host rad Before I introduce my guest,

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Speaker 2: I want to tell you guys to consistently check out

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Speaker 2: our merch store right We really appreciate you going in

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Speaker 2: checking out the merch at soft reap dot com. And

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Speaker 2: also our book club. We've been getting a lot of

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Speaker 2: new memberships in the book club and I can only

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Speaker 2: think that it's because I'm mentioning it. So we have

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Speaker 2: soft rep dot com Forward slash book hyphen Club. Go

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Speaker 2: check out the book club. See what Brandon Webb has

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Speaker 2: been putting inside of that book club for you to

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Speaker 2: enjoy and check it out. And we also have a

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Speaker 2: lot of things going on if you sign up for

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Speaker 2: our newsletters at soft rep dot com. There's some membership

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Speaker 2: deals right now, so go check out soft rep dot com. Now.

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Speaker 2: I have an author with me, as I usually have

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Speaker 2: authors and the like. This is Dwayne Epstein and he

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Speaker 2: wrote The Dirty Dozen, the most iconic World War two

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Speaker 2: film movie with Lee Marvin And the reason why I

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Speaker 2: kind of am like just thinking this through is because

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Speaker 2: I really like Lee Marvin. And if you're my listener

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Speaker 2: out there, and you know who Lee Marvin is, white hair,

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Speaker 2: think Chuck Norris and Delta Force, think the Dirty Dozen

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Speaker 2: as the he's the major major John Reisman, Right, isn't

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Speaker 2: that right? Reiman Riceman? So, Dwayne, you've written books the

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Speaker 2: Killing of Generals, you know, the Dirty Dozen, the best

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Speaker 2: iconic movie. Welcome to the program. Thank you right, I

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Speaker 2: appreciate it. Yeah, we've been trying to get each other

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Speaker 2: for a few days now, and I'm super excited to

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Speaker 2: have finally got this all stream together. So am my.

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Speaker 2: So let me just kind of say it correctly. So

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Speaker 2: you wrote Killing Generals, the Making of the Dirty Dozen

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Speaker 2: the most iconic World War Two movie of all time.

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Speaker 2: Where do you get off saying it's the most iconic

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Speaker 2: World War two movie? Tell me why?

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Speaker 3: Well, real quick answer. That was not my idea of

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Speaker 3: a subtitle. That was my publisher. I didn't even know

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Speaker 3: he was going to call it that. I kind of agree,

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Speaker 3: not entirely agree. There are equally iconic movies. It's not demos.

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Speaker 3: But the one thing we did agree on early on

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Speaker 3: the publisher and I was in the title. I was

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Speaker 3: thinking maybe calling it meant on a mission or I

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Speaker 3: think he had suggested something like, oh, what, what's the

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Speaker 3: line cuss already so you don't know, Victor Franco, you know,

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Speaker 3: something like that, But that not.

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Speaker 4: Anything we talked about.

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Speaker 3: That was something we talked about after We immediately both

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Speaker 3: came up with killing generals.

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Speaker 4: It was amazing. We said it at the same time

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Speaker 4: in a phone.

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Speaker 3: Conversation, and then he mentioned to me some of the

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Speaker 3: other ideas he had had. But we both thought killing

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Speaker 3: generals is perfect because it's one of the most famous

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Speaker 3: lines in the movie.

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Speaker 4: It's also the last line in the movie.

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Speaker 3: And it also says in two words volumes about what

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Speaker 3: the theme of the movie is about. It's rather antisocial,

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Speaker 3: it's anti military. Some would say it's anti war. I

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Speaker 3: don't know if that's necessarily the case or not, but

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Speaker 3: it's certainly. There are several major themes in the film,

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Speaker 3: and one of them is that, you know, the film

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Speaker 3: came out during the Vietnam War, which was growing more

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Speaker 3: unpopular with every passing year, and by sixty seven, which

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Speaker 3: I write about in the book, we were in the

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Speaker 3: hit heat of it in the midst of it, and

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Speaker 3: people were starting to not want to be involved in

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Speaker 3: the war anymore, wanted us to pull out. There were

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Speaker 3: more and more protests and demonstrations, and so there were

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Speaker 3: parallels to what the film is about to what was

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Speaker 3: going on in the country at the time. Director Robert

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Speaker 3: Aldridge called it the perfect storm and that we couldn't

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Speaker 3: have planned to have this woe come out at the

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Speaker 3: time things were societally going on. As it turned out,

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Speaker 3: a lot of young people liked the film for that message,

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Speaker 3: you know, draft age kids, and a lot of older people,

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Speaker 3: the greatest generation, you know, the war had only ended

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Speaker 3: sixteen years before, and so they loved the movie because

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Speaker 3: it was a lot of what they felt about and

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Speaker 3: saw in real life. Even though they took a lot

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Speaker 3: of you know, what's the word they they took a

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Speaker 3: lot of freedom with the storyline, you know that would

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Speaker 3: never happen in real life. You know, twelve convicts being

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Speaker 3: trained for a suicide mission.

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Speaker 2: We do have the French Foreign Legion though that does exist.

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Speaker 3: Oh that yeah, by definition, that's what they do, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, We just want you to fight

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Speaker 3: for us, and it has happened, by the way, historically,

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Speaker 3: but never in this country. We would never have that

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Speaker 3: happen here. A matter of fact, it's going on right

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Speaker 3: now in Russia. They opened up the Russian prisons and

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Speaker 3: made quote unquote mercenaries they're not mercenaries, they're prisoners, and

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Speaker 3: trained them to fight against the Ukrainians.

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Speaker 4: In fact, that guy that was shot was killed and

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Speaker 4: killed in the airplane.

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Speaker 3: The guy who trained them end up being an enemy

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Speaker 3: of Putin, and he was kind of I think his

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Speaker 3: name was Pegosian.

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Speaker 2: He was. He was running that mercenary group, the Wagner

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Speaker 2: gu Yeah, the Wagner, right, Yes, that's right, that's right,

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Speaker 2: that's right.

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Speaker 3: He was kind of like John Reichman, but a lot

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Speaker 3: less ethical, for lack of better way to put it.

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Speaker 4: And by the.

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Speaker 3: Way, during World War Two, the Nazis had done it

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Speaker 3: themselves in oh Gosh I which you can remember the

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Speaker 3: country one of the eastern European countries. I write about

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Speaker 3: it in the book that had opened up the prisons

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Speaker 3: to fight the Partisans.

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Speaker 4: In oh Gosh. I think it was Romania, I'm not sure.

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Speaker 3: And it was done by a German officer who was

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Speaker 3: had been convicted for had a prison wrecking himself. He

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Speaker 3: had been a child molester, and they don't seem to

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Speaker 3: really care, the Nazis.

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Speaker 2: They'll do whatever, right, right, We'll look at this exactly.

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Speaker 2: So Lee Marvin, right, that's that's what we're really celebrating here,

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Speaker 2: is him as a United States Marine Corps veteran who

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Speaker 2: fought during World War Two, kind of had a call

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Speaker 2: to service again as an actor to almost like, you know,

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Speaker 2: help the effort. Put it out there. And so he's like, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna do a movie and we're going to show

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Speaker 2: these guys give their last breath of possible air to America.

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Speaker 2: Still they may have done these heinous crimes that they're

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Speaker 2: accused of, like Charles Bronson, and boy, there were some

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Speaker 2: others in there. Holy cow, there's so many people in that.

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Speaker 2: It won like four Academy Awards and it wasn't even

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Speaker 2: supposed to win an Academy Award.

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Speaker 3: Well it actually it only won one, but it was

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Speaker 3: nominated for four. Excuse me, that's okay. And when I

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Speaker 3: did my Lee Marvin book, Lee Marvin, point blank, I

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Speaker 3: got to interview a lot of great people who newly

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Speaker 3: really well, including his son who has since passed away.

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Speaker 3: But Christopher Marvin told me his father made a lot

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Speaker 3: of military theme or war films. And Christopher said, I

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Speaker 3: know why my father made those movies. He made them

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Speaker 3: for the guys who didn't come back. That it was

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Speaker 3: a matter of making a statement. And you know, Lee

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Speaker 3: Marvin never really made like a I don't I'm not

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Speaker 3: putting him down per se, but he never made a

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Speaker 3: kind of a John Wayne war movie. If you understand

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Speaker 3: what that means and praising it. It was never He

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Speaker 3: never made a real gung ho let's go get them guys,

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Speaker 3: Let's get that hill blody blahody blah. There was always

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Speaker 3: a much greater subtext to any time he wore a

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Speaker 3: uniform in a film, and it was often about how

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 4: I'll give you an example.

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Speaker 3: There's a rumor that still exists about how Lee what

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Speaker 3: Lee Marvin felt about The Dirty Does and a lot

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Speaker 3: of people think he did it just for the money

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Speaker 3: and it was a popcorn film.

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Speaker 4: And he didn't really like it because he didn't believe it.

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Speaker 4: That's just not true.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how that got started, but it's an

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Speaker 3: historical misinformation and interview upon an interview after the film

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Speaker 3: came out.

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Speaker 4: He didn't have to say this, but an interview.

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Speaker 3: Upon an interview, he would always say, I like this movie,

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Speaker 3: and the reason I like it is because it doesn't

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Speaker 3: necessarily tell the truth. It's not very believable as a premise,

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Speaker 3: but what the movie has to say about war, I

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Speaker 3: believe in it and I like it. John Wayne was

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Speaker 3: first offered the lead, and he turned it down, and

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Speaker 3: I loved this story. He sent a memo to the

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Speaker 3: producer Ken Hyman, whom I interviewed. By the way, he's

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Speaker 3: still alive, and John Wayne wrote in the memo, whoever

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Speaker 3: wrote this piece of crap script, okay, is probably some

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Speaker 3: sandal wearing, long haired hippie freak carrying a sign that

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Speaker 3: says he doesn't want to fight in a war that

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Speaker 3: he really should be fighting himself. Okay, here's the thing.

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Speaker 3: The script was written by a sixty six year old

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Speaker 3: screenwriting Oscar winning veteran, Nunneley Johnson. Now, when they offered

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Speaker 3: it to Lee Marvin, he said, I guess right away.

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Speaker 3: It's often been said too that one of the things

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Speaker 3: John Wayne didn't like about it was the innocent killing

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Speaker 3: of some of the people at the end of the film.

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Speaker 3: You know the Nazis, yes, but also they were there

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Speaker 3: with their concubine women whatever. And it's open to question

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Speaker 3: exactly how innocent and a woman is who hangs up

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Speaker 3: with a Nazi.

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Speaker 4: But that's another subject.

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Speaker 2: Guilty by association, dude, I mean it happens all the time.

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Speaker 2: You know, we took out a whole wedding and a

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Speaker 2: Yemen just for one guy, right with Lee Marvin didn't

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Speaker 2: have a problem with that.

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Speaker 3: Lee Marvin actually said, look, war is hell, and let's

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Speaker 3: be honest with each other. You know, innocent people died

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Speaker 3: more all the time, and he cited the bombing of Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

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Speaker 3: A lot of innocent people died. That happens in more

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Speaker 3: and that's one of the points in the film. Matter

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Speaker 3: of fact, the way they die at the end was

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Speaker 3: really kind of parallel. And Robert Aldridge did this on

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Speaker 3: purpose to you know, the blowing up of the chateau

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Speaker 3: at the end of the film. He considered it parallel

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Speaker 3: to the use of napalm Vietnam and as well as

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Speaker 3: the ovens during World War Two in the concentration camps.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't an accident, and it wasn't did they mean

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Speaker 3: this or did they mean that? It was clear what

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Speaker 3: they meant. It was very symbolic. And like I said,

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Speaker 3: Lee Marvin didn't have a problem with that, and he

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Speaker 3: liked it. He also loved playing the character of John Reichman.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he held it pretty well. You know. You'd see

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Speaker 2: him walking in the courtyard as he's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: looking at his dirty dozen, you know, and he just

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Speaker 2: kind of walked with a nice walk, and he really

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Speaker 2: held it well. I enjoyed that movie. I grew up

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Speaker 2: with it. I was born in the seventies, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm forty six, so it's been around. You know, a

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Speaker 2: lot of Lee Marvin has been in my life. I

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Speaker 2: didn't realize it until looking up Lee Marvin. Really how

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Speaker 2: much more Lee Marvin there was? And all the Delta Forces,

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Speaker 2: right you do you know the first one, Well, he

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Speaker 2: was like the main guy. He's like the guy that

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Speaker 2: put him all there. He's like, I need you all

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Speaker 2: to do this, Chuck Norris, you need to go on

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Speaker 2: this mission point blank. Huh you talk about that? Yeah.

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Speaker 3: That was a book that took me twenty years to

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Speaker 3: get pub and in the twenty years I did a

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Speaker 3: lot of research. The twenty years were a little kind

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Speaker 3: of off and on because in between both my parents

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Speaker 3: got ill and we had to take care of him

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Speaker 3: a little bit until they passed away. And the guy

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Speaker 3: most responsed to people are most responsible for me being

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Speaker 3: able to get that published one was my agent, wonderful,

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Speaker 3: wonderful human being who passed away a few years back,

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Speaker 3: named Mike Hamilberg. Mike Hamilberg believed in this project more

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Speaker 3: than anybody other than myself, and he finally found a publisher,

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Speaker 3: a gentleman by the name of Tim Schaffner of Schaffner

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Speaker 3: Press out of Tucson, Arizona. And we had gotten rejection

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Speaker 3: from pretty much every publisher there is.

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Speaker 4: Now this is just real quick aside.

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Speaker 3: When the book came out and it became an ebook,

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Speaker 3: it made number four on the New York Times Bestsellers list,

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Speaker 3: rare thing for a film biography of a gentleman who

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Speaker 3: had gone since nineteen eighty seven. And because we had

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Speaker 3: gotten turned down by everybody, Tim had gone to a

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Speaker 3: conference of other independ to publishers and they all came.

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Speaker 4: Up to him and I went, Wow, great job.

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Speaker 3: But the Lee Marvin book boy, I wish we would

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Speaker 3: have published it, to which you know, I could say,

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Speaker 3: you had your chance, man, you blew it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 3: a little you know, pat on the back there. And

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Speaker 3: it did well and I I'm very proud of it,

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Speaker 3: and it also won a couple of publishing awards too.

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Speaker 3: But I came to Killing Generals via my new agent,

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Speaker 3: a gentleman by the name of Lee Sobol, who is

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Speaker 3: a go get her as you can get man.

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Speaker 4: You talk about a hustler. He's amazing.

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Speaker 3: He contacted me asking me if I need an agent,

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Speaker 3: and I said, yeah, but you know agents don't contact writers.

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Speaker 4: Writers look for.

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Speaker 3: Agents, and he's said, yeah, he goes, why a writer

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Speaker 3: so cynical? We could work this out. So we started well,

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Speaker 3: first I checked him out to make sure he was legit,

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Speaker 3: and he was, and then we started talking about a

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Speaker 3: project and he asked me, well, he said to me,

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Speaker 3: I loved your Lee Marvin book. How would you like

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Speaker 3: to write a book about one of only Marvin's films?

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Speaker 3: I said, yeah, that would be great, and he suggests,

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Speaker 3: point blank the John Borman film, which is what I

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Speaker 3: subtitled my bio on And I told him, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I liked that movie I don't love it. You want

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Speaker 3: to know my favoritely Marvin movie, that would be The

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Speaker 3: Dirty Dozen. I've always loved that movie ever since I

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Speaker 3: was a kid. And he say, tell you what, put

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Speaker 3: together a proposal. I'll shop it around and we'll see

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Speaker 3: what we can do. And I did, and he did,

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Speaker 3: and it wred.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing, you know, for a writer out there, you

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Speaker 2: know you just I want you to. I want them

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Speaker 2: to hear that. You just kept to it. You didn't stop.

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Speaker 2: You said, this is a twenty year in the making.

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Speaker 2: So by the time you had putten this altogether in

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Speaker 2: the beginning, you know, twenty years had gone by, you

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Speaker 2: were still trying to get it published, right, right.

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Speaker 3: I came close a few times. It was a lady

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Speaker 3: at Penguin, one of the editors there, who really really

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Speaker 3: wanted to do it. But you see, I don't know

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Speaker 3: if most people know how these things are done, but

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Speaker 3: they're done by conference, you know, once a week or

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Speaker 3: once a month. Everybody in the editorial staff get together

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Speaker 3: and pitch ideas, straw out ideas, and they have to

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Speaker 3: have a majority vote in order to get the okay

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Speaker 3: to go with it. She didn't get it, and she

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Speaker 3: was very frustrated. I was working another job. I was

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Speaker 3: at a day job, working at a I was the

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Speaker 3: managing editor at a publisher for children's books.

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Speaker 4: Believe it or not.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, she would contact me periodically when I was there,

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Speaker 3: and she would say, if I don't get to get

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Speaker 3: this book published, I'm gonna cut my throat. And I said, Hillary,

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Speaker 3: don't do that. That doesn't help anybody, and just keep plugging.

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Speaker 3: And ultimately it was a Penguin. I believe they turned

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Speaker 3: it down, and Mike Hamilberg knew that because he was

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Speaker 3: the one who got her in touch with me. And

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Speaker 3: Mike just said, keep plugging. We can do this. We

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Speaker 3: just can't give up. And I didn't. And don't get

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Speaker 3: me wrong, there were indeed times where I can't close

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Speaker 3: where I was like, why am I spending my wheel?

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Speaker 3: Why am I wasting my time? I could be doing

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Speaker 3: the something else with my life. But Mike didn't give up,

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Speaker 3: and I didn't give up, and it came to pass.

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Speaker 3: Funny thing is there was a period there, like I said,

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Speaker 3: when my parents were ill, where I didn't have any

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Speaker 3: contact with Mike anymore. I mean for a while, like

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Speaker 3: five six years, I think and then when I got

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Speaker 3: back in contact with him, first of all, I didn't

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Speaker 3: even know if he was still alive.

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Speaker 2: And right, things are changing, right, right, I'm sorry, I said,

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Speaker 2: I said, things change, you know, absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And when I got back in contact with him, I said,

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Speaker 3: are you still are you still running your agency? And

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Speaker 3: he went, oh, yeah, I'll never quit. I'm semi retired.

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Speaker 3: I'm not taking on any any more new clients. But

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Speaker 3: and then he goes, what do you got And I said,

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Speaker 3: let me re ramp them Lee Marvin book, and you

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Speaker 3: tell me what your proposal and you tell me what

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Speaker 3: you think. And he said, do it and I did,

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Speaker 3: and he liked it even more because in the interim

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Speaker 3: I was able to find out a lot more information.

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Speaker 2: So we got to really just crack that egg open

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Speaker 2: on Lee Marvin and just get more. And then you

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Speaker 2: could just you know, just edit your book and just

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Speaker 2: make it even more, uh you know Lee Marvin?

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Speaker 3: Right, he had said too. One of the ways he

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Speaker 3: encouraged me. I love this, he said, because people publishers

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Speaker 3: were saying, you know, he's been gone on too long,

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Speaker 3: people don't remember him. Who cares about Lee Marvin? And

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Speaker 3: Hammelberg said, look, you just keep plugging at this. I

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Speaker 3: guarantee you the Marvin fans are going to come up

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Speaker 3: behind the curtain once they know this exists, because they're

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Speaker 3: there and excuse me, he was right, He was absolutely right.

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Speaker 2: Oh it's true. And I know my listener and the

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Speaker 2: folks on SOFTFRA know Lee Marvin. And if they haven't,

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Speaker 2: they need to know Lee Marvin. Just like a new

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Speaker 2: pop singer will do another rendition of a classic song

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Speaker 2: and old timers get upset at that new guy breaking

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Speaker 2: it out right, how dare he redoce somebody else's song?

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Speaker 2: But yet he's now just exposed that same that artist

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Speaker 2: through his rendition to his fans. Absolutely right, you know right,

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Speaker 2: And so I have to just say, you know again,

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Speaker 2: Lee Marvin. Right, let's let's talk about Lee Marvin Marine

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Speaker 2: Corps right, the United States Marines. He would be one

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Speaker 2: hundred years old. So we're filming this in February, you

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Speaker 2: and me and I usually posted up about a week

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Speaker 2: or two later, so it'll be his one hundredth birthday,

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Speaker 2: right February nineteenth.

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Speaker 3: I actually like to say, you know, President's Day is

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Speaker 3: an important day in our history and calendar.

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Speaker 4: But it's every year.

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Speaker 3: Ali Marvin Centennial once and that's it, and this is

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Speaker 3: and that's when you got to celebrate. And it is

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Speaker 3: on Monday, February nineteenth because he was born February nineteenth,

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Speaker 3: nineteen twenty four.

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Speaker 4: And I'd love to see him.

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Speaker 3: More in the media for that and and you know,

359
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Speaker 3: have more conversations about his films, about his work, about

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Speaker 3: his life, mostly his legacy, which would be you know,

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Speaker 3: his films exactly.

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Speaker 2: And like you said, he wanted to leave something of himself,

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Speaker 2: you know, and also for his buddies or those that

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Speaker 2: didn't make it back. I really like that sentiment that

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Speaker 2: you know, he would put into his acting. But I

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Speaker 2: also I loved him and I owned this movie growing up.

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Speaker 2: I'd watch it all the time. Was cat Balloo right

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Speaker 2: where he is this just like sixth sense, shit cowboy,

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Speaker 2: he just needs to sober.

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Speaker 4: Up, right And he also you know, he played that character.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was a comedy and he won the Oscar

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Speaker 3: for it, by the way, which is extremely rare for

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Speaker 3: comedy performances to win an Oscar. But he played that

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Speaker 3: character with a sense of poignancy. He has several speeches

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Speaker 3: in that movie where it's kind of like, what do

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Speaker 3: you do with a burnt out gunfighter, And Marvin had

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Speaker 3: commented that he thought of him as like an old boxer.

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Speaker 3: What do you do with a boxer who's passed his

379
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Speaker 3: prime and burnt out? Do you give him one more shot?

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Speaker 3: Maybe let him kill himself in the process, or what

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Speaker 3: I mean, what transpires for him? And there's a wonderful story.

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Speaker 3: I got to interview the late director Elliott Silverstein, who

383
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Speaker 3: directed the movie. He said, one of the first scenes

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Speaker 3: we shot was the scene where he has this really

385
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Speaker 3: long speech where in the speech he's, you know, he's

386
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Speaker 3: drinking from a flask and he keeps getting drunker and

387
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Speaker 3: drunker until I think it's I think it's Michael Callen's

388
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Speaker 3: character who says, I've never seen him and get through

389
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Speaker 3: a day so fast because he's getting drunk and drunk

390
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Speaker 3: un till he's falling down. But in the scene he

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Speaker 3: talks about what it's like to be an old gunfighter.

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Speaker 3: And they had to shoot it seven times before they

393
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,440
Speaker 3: got it right. And it was the first thing they did,

394
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,360
Speaker 3: and Marvin, of course was nervous, and Elliott Silverstein kept

395
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Speaker 3: coming up to Lee and he goes, try it this way,

396
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,679
Speaker 3: try it that, way, and the producer of the movie

397
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 3: was on the set, a guy named Harold hecked, and

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00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 3: he was ready to fire Marvin on the spot because

399
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Speaker 3: he didn't like what he was seeing.

400
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Speaker 4: And so on the.

401
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Speaker 3: Eighth take, Elliott Silverstein walked up to Lee and he went, look,

402
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Speaker 3: I know you can make me laugh.

403
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 4: You're making me laugh. That's fine. I want you to

404
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:42,479
Speaker 4: make me cry.

405
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,199
Speaker 3: See if you can do this where it's just so

406
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,479
Speaker 3: poignant you feel for this guy. Elliott Silverstein had been

407
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,239
Speaker 3: a director on a TV show called Naked City, and

408
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,960
Speaker 3: a lot of the characters in Naked City, you know,

409
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 3: it's all about New York and people who are wanted

410
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 3: by the cops for a crime of this, and they're

411
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Speaker 3: all kind of desperate and downtrodden.

412
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Speaker 4: And he goes, think of it as a he told Lee,

413
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Speaker 4: think of it as.

414
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,159
Speaker 3: A Naked City character, but you're in the Old West,

415
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 3: and Lee, Marvin being Lee, Marvin would go, gotcha, buddy,

416
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Speaker 3: right on, And then he did the scene and he

417
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 3: goes and then Elliott Silverstein said, I named my yacht

418
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Speaker 3: take eight because we got it.

419
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 4: We nailed it on the eighth take. So I thought

420
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Speaker 4: that was pretty cool.

421
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 2: That is pretty cool, you know't Lee Marvin has the

422
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 2: eyes that can just squint and just look in the camera.

423
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Speaker 2: And you know when you watch him in that movie,

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Speaker 2: he seems like a dirty, drunk cowboy. He just seems

425
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,119
Speaker 2: like he smells and you know, you're just like, you know,

426
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 2: they're dragging him along and just like you know, he's

427
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 2: dragging his boot.

428
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 4: He you know, the thing about his eyes.

429
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 3: A famous scene that psych gag of him and the

430
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Speaker 3: horse drunk leaning against the wall and one of the

431
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 3: characters comes up to him, the Indian, and says.

432
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Speaker 4: Kid, look at you what look at your eyes?

433
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 3: And Lee Marvin goes, what's wrong with my eyes? And

434
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 3: the kid goes, they're all red? And Lee Marvin goes.

435
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 4: You ought to see him from my side? Yeah?

436
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's looking out of him man. Right, he was great, Yeah,

437
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 2: he was. He was. He was rip to Lee Marvin,

438
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, and the legacy that he'll leave, and well

439
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,959
Speaker 2: we're going to capture that here on softwarep And as

440
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 2: long as this website gets its bills paid, it'll stay

441
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 2: out there as long as the Internet can hold it,

442
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 2: I'm sure. So that's more you know of us talking

443
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 2: about Lee Marvin, and you know, his legacy and his kin.

444
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 2: You know, Like just recently I saw that John Wayne's

445
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 2: grandson is in The Mandalorian as he and he's the

446
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 2: way it's the way he walks. So the Mandalorian is

447
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 2: John Wayne's grandson dressed up with Pedro as the voice. Okay,

448
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 2: so there's three people that play the Mandalorian in this movie, right,

449
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 2: So I mean John Wayne's families out there still doing stuff.

450
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 2: I'm sure Lee Marvins got lineage out there. Did he

451
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 2: have grandkids and kids like that? Like he had?

452
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 3: He had four children, two of which are still alive.

453
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 3: And the one I spoke to the most was his

454
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 3: was his son Christopher. Christopher became a drummer. He played

455
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 3: on Tom Waite's album Mule Variations and a few other things.

456
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 3: And he had three daughters.

457
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 4: Now.

458
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 3: One of his daughters, his oldest daughter, Courtney, was a

459
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 3: film editor. She worked on that Got Awful Kevin Costa

460
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 3: water World. Yeah, she was one of the main cutters

461
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 3: on that.

462
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 4: And his other daughter.

463
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, darn it, they all have c names, not Cynthia.

464
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: She was the baby she passed away. Courtney. It'll come

465
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 3: to me anyway. She is a wardrobe dresser for TV

466
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 3: and movies. So they're kind of in a roundabout way,

467
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 3: got what you call it in the industry, somewhat.

468
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're still working in Hollywood, still doing working in

469
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 2: film and television and theater.

470
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 3: Now, as far as grandchildren goes, it kind of works

471
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 3: like this. Lee was married twice and he had that

472
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,199
Speaker 3: infamous relationship resulting in the palamony case with Michelle Triola.

473
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 3: But they never married and they never had children. But

474
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 3: Pam Peely Lee's last wife, his widow, no, his widow.

475
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 3: She had a bunch of children from previous marriages, and

476
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: several of them are still to this day trying to

477
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 3: break into the business. Well, not her children, her grandchildren

478
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 3: trying to break into the business. One of them is

479
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: I think, trying to be a stunt man. I think

480
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 3: his name is Joe King. I'm not sure. But in

481
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 3: any event, Oh, and Marvin did have a grandson. His

482
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 3: name is Edward Michael or something like that. His daughter,

483
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 3: once again, whose name I don't remember, she had a son,

484
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 3: and I think he's in his thirties.

485
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 4: Now, I don't know.

486
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 3: I asked him if he remembers his grandfather, and he said, yeah,

487
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:57,959
Speaker 3: one time he told me to get my feet out

488
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 3: of the pool.

489
00:23:58,440 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 4: That's all I remember.

490
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 2: Get your feet out of the pool. Kid, there's an

491
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 2: alligator in there. Or he just tried to warn the pool.

492
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 2: Let's see. Claudia, Courtney, and Cynthia that's it.

493
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 4: Thank you.

494
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 3: Claudia was the one who died, Okay. Cynthia, that's the one.

495
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 3: She's the one who works in the wardrobe department of

496
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 3: different studios. Courtney was the one who was an editor.

497
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 3: I don't know if she still is anymore.

498
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 2: I haven't had Courtney Lee. Yeah, it says here. Marvin

499
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: married Betty Evely in April of nineteen fifty two, and

500
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: together they had four children, a son, Christopher Lamont and

501
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 2: three daughters, Courtney Lee, Cynthia Luis, and Claudia Leslie. Well,

502
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 2: shout out to your father. All right, if you guys

503
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: happen to stumble on this podcast and you're still around,

504
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 2: so shout out to your father. We're keeping him going,

505
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: all right, rock and roll.

506
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 3: Did you notice the story the way they were named

507
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 3: first name with the sea, last name of an l Oh, Yeah,

508
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 3: uh they did. Yeah. I got to know Betty Marvin

509
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 3: very well. She was a wonderful wonderful person.

510
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: Well, they gave they gave Courtney. His middle name is

511
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: his first name, Lee. Yeah, they gave that, which is

512
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: actually my middle name. They gave Christopher, Lee's father. Christopher's

513
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 2: middle name is Lee's father's first name, Lamont Marvin Okay,

514
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: so Lamont is Lee's original is his first name.

515
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 4: No, Lee's Father's first name.

516
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 2: Oh, I see, I see. So they kind of kept

517
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: that whole family in there. I got you right.

518
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 3: I asked Betty about the names, and she said it

519
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 3: was ridiculous. It was like we were naming orangutangs. She

520
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 3: was a trippy chick. He said such great things to me.

521
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: I named all my kids after bridges. We named my

522
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: daughter Brooklyn, and then we named my daughter. My name,

523
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: my daughter Sydney. And then we try to think of Alexander,

524
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 2: but we just went with He made the Silk Road.

525
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 2: So that's a bridge between economies. Right there, you go,

526
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 2: that's cool. I always liked what that think Ron Howard

527
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: did with his kids. He named all of his kids

528
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 2: in the hotels that were conceived in. He has a Marriott, but.

529
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 4: His daughter, who's an actress, Bryce Howard. There was a

530
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 4: Bryce Hotel and.

531
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 2: There o mg Ron Howard, I'm gonna I'm doing this.

532
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: I'm looking it up right now. Ron Howard who played

533
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 2: Opie on Andy Griffith and is a huge director nowadays.

534
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: He did Doctor Seuss.

535
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 4: Uh Rich, Richie Cunningham on Happy Days.

536
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: Richie Cunningham on Happy Days. Bryce so Paige and see,

537
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 2: we'll have to find out. Yeah, he does have a

538
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 2: Bryce stylest. That is funny. That funny enough. Wow, his

539
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 2: kids are my age.

540
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 4: It's just something I thought about. Yeah, getting back.

541
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 3: To Lee Marvin. Yeah, as you know or may not know,

542
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: I'm assuming you do or not. Doesn't matter that I

543
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 3: know everything.

544
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I said I know everything.

545
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 4: It takes all the mystery out of life.

546
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: And yeah, he was in the Marines and he did

547
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 3: twenty one landings during the Marines island hopping campaign in

548
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 3: the Pacific, and he saw some things and he did

549
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 3: some things that were pretty horrific that stayed with him

550
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 3: the rest of his life. I didn't say it in

551
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: specifics because I didn't know for sure, but when I

552
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 3: was working on the book, it seemed to me he

553
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 3: suffered from post traumatic stress disorder, and I hinted at

554
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 3: it when I wrote at it and I didn't find

555
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: out specifically until I talked to a friend of his,

556
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 3: the lifelong friend of his, who said, almost definitely he

557
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 3: had PTSD. You could see it, and he knew he

558
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 3: had it, but he didn't find out until the end

559
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: of his life. I would find out in talking to

560
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 3: all the people he knew that he was close to.

561
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 3: I found out if there were ten symptoms of PTSD,

562
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 3: he had eight of them. But in truth he had

563
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 3: all ten. The alcoholism, screaming nightmares, and attraction to violence,

564
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 3: loud noises would make him jump ten feet in the air,

565
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 3: you know, things like that.

566
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 4: Those are the only ones I can think of off

567
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 4: the top of my head.

568
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 3: But his wife, his first wife, his brother, his son,

569
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 3: they all told me that he had screaming nightmares when

570
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 3: he came back from the war.

571
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 2: And it even quotes you. Honestly, I just googled. Here's

572
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 2: what I did. I just looked up Lee Marvin USMC PTSD,

573
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 2: and it says a World War Two veteran and former marine,

574
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 2: Marvin was in some of the bloodiest battles of the

575
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 2: Pacific Theater. He suffered from post traumatic stress disorder most

576
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: of his life. Epstein says, they had to slug through

577
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: jungles for days just to gain yardage, and he was

578
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: wounded on Saipan. Right, this is just a this is

579
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: the first thing that pops up when you type that

580
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: in for Lee Marvin. So, yeah, for sure, if he's

581
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: in all these bloody battles, he's gonna have just you know,

582
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 2: he's gonna see it.

583
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 4: I don't know how strong a stomach you were, your

584
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 4: audience has.

585
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: But strong it's weak. Their stomach weak. Let's hear it.

586
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: Okay, great, let's be good and sadistic. He used to

587
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 3: tell this story to test people about whether they can

588
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 3: handle anything he tells them in terms.

589
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 4: Of his experience.

590
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: And it was shortly after he landed, and I think

591
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: it was either enerwe talk equation in one of the

592
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: Japanese islands, Japanese held islands.

593
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 4: That and it was early on.

594
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 3: I think it was like nineteen forty three, and he

595
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 3: joined in late forty two. Anyway, they trained real quick

596
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 3: so they could get sent overseas. He was in the

597
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 3: fighting forth the fourth Marine Division. And once they landed,

598
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: he saw a pregnant woman, a Japanese pregnant woman with

599
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 3: a dead baby in her arms, and she was crying, okay,

600
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: and one of the Marines in his outfit stepped up

601
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 3: and said, drop that baby. She was crying, she said,

602
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: you know, and I don't even know if she understood

603
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: what he was saying, right, And she just kept crying

604
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 3: and shaking her head, and he asked her one more time.

605
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 4: She refused.

606
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 3: He took his he took his knife out, cut her

607
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 3: belly open, disemboweled her. The fetus fell out, put the

608
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 3: knife back, and, as Lee Levin would tell people, it

609
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: was at that moment he realized what war was said,

610
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 3: it wasn't anything like I ever thought it would be. Now,

611
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 3: granted that might have been considered a war crime, and

612
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 3: it probably is, but it happens, happens all the time

613
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: in any gracuation.

614
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 2: Dude, Yeah, it's you know, I talked to a lot

615
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 2: of folks right that have gone through a lot of

616
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: the rigamoose of war and combat, and they all have

617
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: some type of a kind of like a hollow voice

618
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: stare when they're talking about certain things, and you know,

619
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: you just kind of let it, let it go, you know,

620
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 2: let him, let them talk. And then at the end

621
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: of it, I'm like, you're home, Johnny, You're a home. Yeah,

622
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: welcome back, you know, welcome back from nom And he's like,

623
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: but I went to Afghanistan. It's like, yeah, I know, bro,

624
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: welcome home. Oh wow.

625
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

626
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: See, I do war games, and I'm sure you're totally

627
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: aware of that, but I do large scale wargames as

628
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: like as a commander of a unit and everything like that.

629
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: We have guys with night vision and we go out

630
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: to the west deserts of Utah and we get together

631
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: and we fight each other till from like ten in

632
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: the morning till about two in the morning. So we

633
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 2: go into the night and we go late into the night.

634
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: And I had a friend of mine come home from Afghanistan.

635
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: And the first thing he did was he came straight

636
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 2: off the plane. He got a ride out to the

637
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: desert right to where we were, and he got dropped

638
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: off by whoever, and he's like, hey, I'm back. We're

639
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 2: like yes. Everyone put their plate carrier on him and

640
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: gave him an extra rifle and gave him his night vision.

641
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: As soon as they put that night vision on him,

642
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: and he had just gotten home and he's now not

643
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: in Afghanistan. As soon as they put that night vision

644
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 2: on and we started moving out. He just had to

645
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: sit down. He's like, I can't do this, and he

646
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: kind of just melted right there. And you know, he

647
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: had just been wearing night vision and just doing all

648
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: of that, and what he thought he was missing out

649
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 2: on here he had already. It was just too much,

650
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: too soon. And so I can only imagine, you know,

651
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 2: somebody who has been through twenty one of the bloodiest

652
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 2: battles of island hopping along Japan and Saipan and all

653
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: these different places as a young mareen.

654
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,239
Speaker 3: You know, the thing is what you just described that

655
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 3: gentleman went through is very typical. He just gets off

656
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 3: the plane and he wants to go back into a

657
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 3: war game, and then he freezes that paradox that irony is.

658
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 3: Did you ever see the movie The hurt Locker, Yes, Yeah,

659
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 3: kind of like that. He's lucky to get back from

660
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 3: the war and he's standing in a grocery store and

661
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 3: he can't focus and he can't concentrate, he can't think

662
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 3: of anything except being there, and he goes back right

663
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 3: right that PTSD. The whole time, You're like, I want

664
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 3: to go home.

665
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 2: I want to go home and start my motel on

666
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: a river that's in this forest area and then it's

667
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: been mowed down and turn into a mall. And then

668
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 2: you're like, I'm gonna go back to thes or the

669
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: military because they'll take care of me. And it's just like,

670
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 2: you know, the the transition that our troops have to do.

671
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: What Lee Marvin did was transitioned successfully from civilian. I

672
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: think a boxer didn't need box too. As a young man,

673
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: he is in box No, I'm not a boxer.

674
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: No, he played he played a boxer on TV until

675
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 3: you like, from a movie.

676
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: That's what I'm thinking of. That's what I'm thinking. So

677
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: what I'm getting at is he started as a young man,

678
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 2: went to the Marine Corps and got out and had

679
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: to transition into something that all a lot of my

680
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 2: listeners who are veterans, they always say, what's next for

681
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: me after I get out of the military. Well, this

682
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: dude became an actor, right.

683
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well what happened with Lee was when he came

684
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 3: back his parents lived in upstate New York. They lived

685
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 3: in Woodstock, and uh, the same place before the concert, Right,

686
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: They lived in Woodstock, and there was a kind of

687
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 3: a little artist colony in Woodstock. There always had been.

688
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: And when he got back, his father knew some people

689
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 3: in town. He was fairly well known, and he got

690
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 3: him a job as a plumber's assistant. And that's what

691
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: he wanted to do. He wanted to be a plumber,

692
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 3: he said. It was the best thing he could do

693
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 3: at the time. It was therapeutic, It made him not

694
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 3: have to think about things, and it was good exercise

695
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 3: for his back, he said.

696
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 4: And then this is a.

697
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 3: Great story about There were like three or four different

698
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 3: versions of this story about how he became an actor.

699
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 3: The one that was the true story is probably the best.

700
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 3: And I won't even tell you the story he made up.

701
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 3: This is the real story. He became really good friends

702
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: with a guy named Ian Valentine, who would later go

703
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: on to.

704
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 4: Create Valentine Books.

705
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 3: And Ian Valentine's wife was Betty Valentine, and they were

706
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 3: having a party at Ian Valentine's parents' house for his birthday. Now,

707
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 3: Ian Valentine's father was a gentleman, Teddy Valentine, and he

708
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 3: ran or co ran this place called the Maverick Theater

709
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 3: in Woostock, New York. Now, for such a small community,

710
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 3: there are actually three or four live theaters there, which

711
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 3: is kind of interesting. But that night at the party,

712
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 3: everybody's getting swapped everybody. That was the word that Lee used.

713
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 3: And there was an actor and a play they were

714
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 3: about to do. The play was called Roadside, which would

715
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 3: later become musicalized as Oklahoma Anyway. So the actor that

716
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 3: was supposed to play this character called Texas was sick

717
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 3: and in excuse me, Teddy Valentine shouted from across the room, Hey, Lee,

718
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 3: we need a loud mouth drunk. Can you play a

719
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: loudmouth on stage? He was drunk, he said yes. Now

720
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 3: the next morning he was hungover, I mean I really hungover,

721
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 3: and he was kind of like, oh what did I do?

722
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

723
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: So Betty Valentine, and she was the one one of

724
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 3: the people who told me the story. Betty Valentine said,

725
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 3: I stayed up with him all day, you know, sobering

726
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 3: him up, learning the lines, and she goes, but in truth,

727
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: he never really learned the lines. How could he. He

728
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 3: had one day. So what happened was when he made

729
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 3: his entrance. I loved this story. Back East, they have

730
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 3: dry storms where you know, I don't know, say almost

731
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 3: fire whatever, and there's lightning and thunder, but there's no rain.

732
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 3: When he made his entrance, all six foot two and

733
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: a half inches of him in those big boots, cowboy hat,

734
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 3: and gun belt. There was a thundercrack when he came

735
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 3: out on stage with that presence of his and he

736
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 3: was like, that's it. I know what I'm doing with

737
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 3: the rest of my life and there's no holding me back.

738
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 3: I want to be an actor. And he joined the

739
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: American Theater Wing, which was an organization that was created

740
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 3: under the GI Bill for returning vets in order to

741
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 3: learn to be an actor. And the interesting thing is

742
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 3: they didn't do like Stanislavsky or the Royal Academy or

743
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 3: anything like that. What they did was they taught these

744
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 3: guys how to get jobs, how to do an audition,

745
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 3: how to.

746
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: Audition, yes, audition and audition and cold reads, and how

747
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 2: to audition against dathells yes.

748
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: Which is an art in and of itself. Now, the

749
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 3: funny thing is he didn't tell his father he was

750
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 3: going to do that. His father thought he was gonna

751
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 3: apply to the GI Bill as a what you call it,

752
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 3: a bricklayer, betrayed a sprint player.

753
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 4: But what he did was he used the money from

754
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 4: the GI Bill to get into the.

755
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 3: American Theater way. Yes, and it worked and why not.

756
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 3: His father was very pissed off at him. But and

757
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 3: it's interesting he had Robert his brother told me that

758
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 3: when his when Monte Lamont Marvin found out that Lee

759
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 3: was going to be an actor, he hit the roof

760
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 3: and Robert told me, he goes. My father said to him,

761
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,479
Speaker 3: don't ever expect any help from me. You're on your own,

762
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 3: you know, if you're if you're gonna do this crazy thing,

763
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 3: no help from me. Well, apparently I found Lee Marvin's

764
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 3: check book from that time.

765
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 4: Go oh.

766
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 3: I stayed at the Marvin home because that's where Robert

767
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 3: was living. And I was there for about two weeks

768
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 3: and I was able to find all contragreat stuff. And

769
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 3: I found Lee Marvin's checkbook and his father's checkbook, and

770
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 3: apparently his father.

771
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 4: Lent him money for a winter coat. He paid his

772
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 4: phone bill one month. He yeah, he's a dad. That's

773
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 4: exactly exactly.

774
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 2: You know, you gotta believe in your kid. Who went

775
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: to World War two?

776
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 4: Bro right, By the way, so did Monte Marvin. He

777
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 4: was in World War One and he was in World

778
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 4: War Two. He was in both. He was a lieutenant

779
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 4: in World War One and in World War Two he

780
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 4: resigned his commission and was just like, you know, a

781
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 4: death sergeant.

782
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 2: But wow. Yeah.

783
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 4: His brother Robert was also in World War Two. He

784
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 4: was in the Army Air Force. He was in the

785
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 4: ground What the hell was the word. He's the guy

786
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 4: with the lights to go like this, you know where

787
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 4: the plans you're coming in?

788
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: Sure? Sure, yeah, like a runway guy on the tarmac

789
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 2: that crodded ground crew. Sure.

790
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 4: Yeah. So all of it, all of them.

791
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 2: His dad was in World War One and World War Two. Yeah,

792
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 2: because they were like not that far apart, like seventeen

793
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 2: twenty one, see nineteen eighteen, nineteen thirty.

794
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, seriously, Yeah, you know, it's funny. Marvin had a

795
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 3: very complicated relationship with his father. He loved his father dearly,

796
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 3: but he was always disappointing his father. And at the

797
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 3: same time, Monty was a very cold and somewhat unemotional man.

798
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 3: And Lee used to tell the story about his father.

799
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 3: He said, I know a lot of people think that

800
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 3: my father was unemotional, but when he was in World

801
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 3: War One, he was in command of a cavalry platoon,

802
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 3: you know, horses, And he said, when they got hit

803
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 3: with mustard gas. He said, they had gas masks on,

804
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 3: but they didn't have it for the horses. And he said,

805
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 3: and he goes, and when he saw all those horses

806
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 3: bodies getting twisted and mangled, he goes, he cried just

807
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 3: in me telling it, and he goes. He can be

808
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 3: emotional depending on what it was about. So it's kind

809
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 3: of interesting.

810
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 4: You know.

811
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 2: I always cry when the horse gets killed and not

812
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 2: the cowboy too. Right in a movie, right what not?

813
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 4: The horse.

814
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 2: Out to horse.

815
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 3: I remember one time, and this is one of the

816
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 3: reasons why I was always proud of my mother. Do

817
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 3: you remember the movie sounder Paul Winfield Cecily Tyson. Great

818
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 3: movie She's Got a Black share cropping family in the

819
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 3: nineteen thirties, And we saw the movie in the theater.

820
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 3: I was like ten or eleven years old, and we

821
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 3: saw the movie in the theater. And there's a scene

822
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: in the movie when the father played by Paul Winfield,

823
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 3: the family is so desperate for food they're apparently making

824
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 3: any money. He breaks into a local market and steals

825
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 3: some food. Okay, so the cops come and get them,

826
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 3: and they're carrying them away, and everybody in the family

827
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 3: is in tears. It's like, don't take daddy right, understandably right.

828
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 3: And as they're taking them away their dog the title

829
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 3: of the movie, Sounder gets shot. Sounder gets shot chasing

830
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 3: Paul Winfield. And when that happened in the theater, everybody's like.

831
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 4: Oh no, not the dog. My mother turned around. Does

832
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 4: the whole theater have went? How's the matter with you people?

833
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 4: He's going to jail. You can crying for the stupid dog.

834
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 4: I just got my way to go.

835
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: Oh that's like old yeller. Yes, you know, you just

836
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 2: don't don't want it to happen. But I liked that

837
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 2: my mother's sentiment was in the right place. Hey, you

838
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 2: know in your book, you know, the Dirty Does in

839
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 2: the best World War Two iconic film, you have like

840
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 2: a special thanks page in there, right, there's a Barbara says.

841
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: It says special thanks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so there's let

842
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 2: me speak up just a little bit for you, my friend.

843
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 2: It says, like, you know, to my friend, maybe Barbara,

844
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 2: you know, why do you want to explain why?

845
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 4: Sure?

846
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 3: What I wrote was this? Okay? Where is it? Yeah?

847
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 3: For Mike, he knows why. And to Barbara she knows why. Okay,

848
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 3: Barbara is my girlfriend and she's right across the apartment

849
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 3: now and I love her.

850
00:41:58,400 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 4: She's the love of my life.

851
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 3: No ship together over almost almost twenty five years now.

852
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 4: The interesting part.

853
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 3: Is Mike, Okay, my landlord's name is Mike Peterson. And

854
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 3: he read the book and he went, hey, man, thanks

855
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 3: for naming for dedicating the book to me. And I

856
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 3: was like, it's not dedicated to you, morohnes the matter

857
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 3: with you?

858
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 4: Why would I dedicated to my landlord? Okay.

859
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 3: One of my best friends growing up was a guy

860
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 3: named Mike Barrow now Mike Barrow and I used to

861
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 3: watch The Dirty Dozen constantly, every single time.

862
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 4: It was on TV.

863
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,439
Speaker 3: When they used to show it in two parts, we'd

864
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 3: watch it together. When it first came out on VHS,

865
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 3: we would I got it first, he got it later.

866
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 3: But because I got it first. If there was nothing

867
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,720
Speaker 3: going on, this is when we were in our teens

868
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: in twenties, there was nothing.

869
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 4: Going on in our lives.

870
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 3: He would call me up and say, you got anything

871
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 3: going on tonight? And I said no, and he would go,

872
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 3: you want to watch a Dirty Dozen? I said yeah,

873
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 3: And it got to the point I'm not making this up.

874
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 3: It got to the point I reminded him of this

875
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 3: late recently. We're still friends. He would go, he'd call

876
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 3: me up and it was it was it was before

877
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 3: call caller ID. So I hear the phone ring, I

878
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 3: pick it up and he would go shoot and I

879
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 3: would go, okay, come on over.

880
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 4: And watch it the theme song. So that's why it's

881
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 4: dedicated to Mike.

882
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: I love that.

883
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 4: I love you for to do that either, which was

884
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 4: really cool. He was blown away.

885
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 2: That's the best thing, you know. That's so awesome. I'll

886
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 2: tell you I have a similar kind of blowing my

887
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 2: friends away kind of nice thing is I have a

888
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: warehouse outside a Hill Air Force Base where I run

889
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 2: indoor war games. And they got these big windows on them,

890
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: and uh, me and my business partner were like, well,

891
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 2: let's just put our homies up that we play war

892
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 2: games with on the windows, like show it's a community environment.

893
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 2: And so we went and got all these pictures that

894
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: I had taken over the years, and I was like,

895
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: which one I'm gonna put and we put them up

896
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: on the windows and the guys never knew it, and

897
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 2: they showed up to see the shop and they saw

898
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 2: themselves on the windows. And they're like, yeah, they're all

899
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 2: like standing like like Captain Morgan's like pointing themselves the window.

900
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: You know what They're like, that's me, you know, take

901
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: a picture and you know. It's the simple things that

902
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: make us love one another in a relationship, right, It's

903
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: the small things, dude, That's right. It's the littlest things memories.

904
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 3: And that's usually what's so funny. That's usually what you

905
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 3: remember most. You don't remember well, you know, I remember friends'

906
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 3: weddings and stuff like that. But for the most part,

907
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 3: it's those little moments in life that take precedence, you know.

908
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 4: That's what you're always have to do. Mike and I

909
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 4: have a lot of As matter of fact, there's a

910
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 4: group of us. I don't know I'm telling you this,

911
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 4: but I'm gonna tell it anyway.

912
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 3: We call ourselves the Movieland Rat Pack because when we

913
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 3: were teenagers, Me, Mike, Brett, and Greg the four of us,

914
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,959
Speaker 3: we all worked at movieland Wax Museum in Buena Park

915
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 3: and we bonded. We bonded really tight, and we still

916
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 3: are friends today. And once a year we haven't done

917
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 3: it in a while, but once a year we used

918
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 3: to have what we called the movieland rat Pack Summit,

919
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 3: where we would all meet somewhere for the longest time.

920
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 4: You always want d up being Vegas.

921
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: You know, sir. Of course everything's in Vegas. Let's see

922
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:04,720
Speaker 2: to Vegas.

923
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 3: We had gone to San Diego, we had gone to

924
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 3: San Francisco, and when we couldn't think of what which

925
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 3: way to go back to one of them again or whatever,

926
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 3: it was Vegas, Vegas.

927
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 4: And we had a ball. We had so one time

928
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 4: when the Sands was about to close, when they were

929
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 4: about to demolish it at the Sands Hotel, we went

930
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 4: there and we decided, because every year we would do

931
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 4: something weird and wacky, and we decided, this year, we're

932
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 4: all gonna rent tuxedos and we're going to walk around

933
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 4: Vegas and tuxas and try to look cool.

934
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 3: And we did, and we went to the Sands and

935
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 3: the act that was on stage it was one of

936
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 3: the last times, was Alan and Rossi.

937
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 4: Remember Alan and Rossi from the old Ed Sullivan Shows.

938
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 3: A matter of fact, Yeah, with Steve Rossi and Marty Allen,

939
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 3: you know Marty Allen with a big wild hair, Hello Dad,

940
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 3: And we came in we got in a little late.

941
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 3: Marty Allen couldn't help but notice us, and he sees

942
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 3: us and he goes, look, it's the White Molls brothers, and.

943
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 4: Which was actually kind of funny.

944
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 3: And here's the way we After the show, we got

945
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 3: to go backstage to the dressing rooms of the Old

946
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 3: Sands and I and I asked, I said, is this

947
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 3: for Sinatra stage before he came on stage? And Marty

948
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 3: Allen said yeah. And I looked and I went, a

949
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 3: bitch of Dean Martin threw up in that toilet.

950
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 2: I'm best. Sammy Davis put in his eyeball on that

951
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: out right right from the mirror, right right there. You

952
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 2: got a baby, Oh yeah, baby.

953
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 3: And then when the show was over, we're going back

954
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 3: to our room, and in the parking lot out comes

955
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 3: Marty Allen. We kind of crossed paths, and he remembered us,

956
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 3: talked to us a little bit somewhere.

957
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 4: I got, well, I'm not gonna look for it.

958
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 3: But anyway, he tells us a joke and he goes,

959
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 3: let me ask you boys a question.

960
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 4: Who's a really hot sectionmber right now?

961
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 3: And we thought for a minute. At that time, I said,

962
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 3: we said Pam Anderson, and he went okay, guy's on

963
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 3: a desert island all by himself, been there for years.

964
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 3: Then a giant wave washes over and on the wave

965
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 3: is Pam Anderson and she lands right on the island. Okay,

966
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: and as luck would have it, she was doing Baywatch

967
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 3: at the time, but anyway, she goes exactly yeah, and

968
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 3: Pam Anderson tells the guy, thank you for saving my life.

969
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 3: Is there anything I can do for you? And the

970
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 3: guy says, yeah, what do you think? And so after

971
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 3: about the four or fifth time, she she goes, wow,

972
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,720
Speaker 3: that was incredible. That's the best sex I ever had.

973
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,839
Speaker 3: Anything I can do for you, and the guy says, yeah,

974
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 3: do me a favor. Put it on this hat and coat,

975
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 3: man's man's trash coat, trensh coat in a fedora.

976
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 4: She puts it on and the guy looks around and

977
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 4: he goes like this. He puts his.

978
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 3: Arm around Pam Anderson goes, did you know I'm stopping

979
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:50,720
Speaker 3: Pam Anderson.

980
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 2: To this guy. He wanted to let this guy know.

981
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 3: For Fuddy Ola told us that joke. We all fell apart,

982
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 3: and then he just walked way.

983
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 4: It was so cool. It was like, you know, Batman

984
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 4: or something.

985
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 2: That guy. Yeah, he just had it up here, that

986
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 2: rollodex of those jokes.

987
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 4: You bet you anyway.

988
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: Well that's great, No, I love that and the fact

989
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 2: that you were able. You were like, did Dean Martin

990
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 2: throw up in that bucket or that toilet? I bet

991
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 2: he did? I bet he did.

992
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 3: He? Actually, this is so stupid. We actually took a

993
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 3: vote about who was who. My buddy Brett because she

994
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 3: was the shortest, was Sammy Davis Jr. My buddy Mike

995
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 3: because we always thought it was so cool, he was

996
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 3: Dean Martin. And my buddy Greg Fry, who was very fastidious,

997
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 3: very uh cognizant of how he dresses or whatnot, he

998
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 3: was Peter Lawford, and I was Frank sat.

999
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 2: Of course I got. Of course we actually took I

1000
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: want to be Johnny Carson. Well, what's the joke. Left

1001
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 2: one in the room is Joey Bishop. Well, Well that's

1002
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 2: the show tonight, ed. Well listen you have I've had

1003
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 2: you for almost an hour of your time talking Lee Marvin,

1004
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 2: talking about his lineage, talking about the book that you

1005
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: wrote as an author, as a respected author, you can

1006
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 2: find Killing Generals, the Making of the Dirty Dozen, the

1007
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: most iconic World War Two movie of all time written

1008
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 2: by my new friend Dwayne Epstein. It's out everywhere, right,

1009
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 2: we can find this on the internet at bookstore and.

1010
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 3: Born and Noble and wherever find books are sold. And

1011
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 3: this is still very much in print and still selling.

1012
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 2: Lee Marvin's point blank. Dwayne Epstein. Yeah, we will put

1013
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 2: that in the description of this episode, so when people

1014
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 2: are looking at soft rep dot com they can just

1015
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: read about what we kind of talked about and click

1016
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 2: on it and possibly go find your book. So, you know,

1017
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 2: let's make sure that Anton, my producer, gets a link

1018
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 2: from your bio so we can share that because we

1019
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 2: would love to put that out there and probably in

1020
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: the book club.

1021
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 4: And I was that last part again, I'm sorry.

1022
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 2: We could try to get in the book club.

1023
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 3: Oh, that would be terrific. Thank you, And if you

1024
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 3: need to, I can email you the Amazon link for

1025
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 3: both books.

1026
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's perfect, and we'll just give it to

1027
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 2: Anton and the guys and they'll just go ahead and

1028
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: do a dissertation and they'll put that all linkage in there.

1029
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 2: So really, I just want to say thank you for

1030
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 2: the working through all the technical difficulties these last two

1031
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,879
Speaker 2: three days to get together and it's really been worth it.

1032
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, and thank my neighbor Shannon. She's a sweetheart.

1033
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 2: Oh, Shannon, you're a sweetheart. Huh hey, no problem, Thanks Shannon.

1034
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 2: We appreciate you absolutely.

1035
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 4: Oh.

1036
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 2: And if you want to Barbara and Barbara, we appreciate Barbara. Yes.

1037
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 4: And if you want to cut out that movieland rat

1038
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 4: pack stuff, that's fine by me.

1039
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,280
Speaker 2: Oh we're not. We're not even done yet, brother, nothing's

1040
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: getting cut. No, we're still going strong, bro. You go ahead,

1041
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: keep telling Bishop rad what else you want to confess.

1042
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 2: Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

1043
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 3: If you want to leave it in. If you want

1044
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 3: to leave it in, I could certainly send it to

1045
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:55,720
Speaker 3: them and they could.

1046
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, oh please, we will. Yes, And we're

1047
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: going to leave it in there, and that rat pack

1048
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 2: is going to exist for the rest of this internets,

1049
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 2: at least this payment of this website.

1050
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 4: Right on.

1051
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 2: Cool Now, listen, I'm gonna wind this down, and I'm

1052
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 2: gonna say it's been a pleasure to have you on

1053
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 2: the show, Dwayne, and I'd love to have you again

1054
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: as a guest or commentary about anything Lee Marvin or whatever.

1055
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 2: If you have another book coming out man, you have

1056
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 2: a welcome welcome position.

1057
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 4: Here, coolness.

1058
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 3: I'm working on a few things actually, and when they

1059
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 3: come to fruition, I will certainly let you know about it.

1060
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 2: It'd be my honor to have you back on the show,

1061
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: and I'm sure our guests would be stoked to have you.

1062
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 2: And with that said, I want you to go out

1063
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 2: and check out soft reap dot com and check out

1064
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 2: our book hyphen Club okay, and the merch store. Keep

1065
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,479
Speaker 2: supporting us. And thank you so much to my guest

1066
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 2: Dwayne and to his significant other Barbara. Okay, you guys,

1067
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 2: thanks so much. This is rad saying peace.

1068
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: You've been listening to self Rep Ladia