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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeartRadio. I'm Anniries

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Speaker 1: and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we have an episode

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Speaker 1: for you about trick or treating, Yes, which is a

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Speaker 1: fun one that I'm kind of surprised we haven't already done.

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Speaker 2: Uh, we've We've kind of danced around it. We've done

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Speaker 2: a bunch of your personal favorite tricker treating related Halloween candies.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and we have one left that is coming. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I have five candies I must acquire or else.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yes, But I suppose that answers the question of why

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Speaker 1: this was on your mind?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that if you're if you look at

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Speaker 2: the date that it was published, you can more or

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Speaker 2: less guess why it was on my mind. But uh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a oh it's it's sort of it's one of

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Speaker 2: those ones that's like clearly food adjacent but still really cool.

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Speaker 2: It was really fun to look into.

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Speaker 1: It was really fun to look into, and it was

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Speaker 1: also difficult to not go down rabbit holes of other things.

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Speaker 1: If we were not a food podcast.

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Speaker 2: Goodness, No, this could be a whole mini series about

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Speaker 2: all different kinds of historical things and like the entirety

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Speaker 2: of like of like of like midnight dinner parties and

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Speaker 2: phantasmagoria and seances and like all of that stuff that

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Speaker 2: was really solidifying during the eighteen hundreds that made spooky

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Speaker 2: things what they arnt was today.

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Speaker 1: But that's wait, it's we're a food show. Ostensibly ostensibly

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Speaker 1: so ostensibly. So I do have a lot of experience

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Speaker 1: with chick or treating. I have to say, yeah, oh yes,

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Speaker 1: I I love Halloween. I have loved Talloween for a

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Speaker 1: long time. I had a Star Wars character that I

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Speaker 1: created named Tara Polaris. Wow, she was the best shed

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Speaker 1: I you've ever met.

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Speaker 2: Oh, wow, the best. That's so cool for her.

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Speaker 1: If people would be like, are you obi wan Kenobi,

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Speaker 1: and I would correct them I would say absolutely no

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Speaker 1: and way better. But my hometown, which is a really

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Speaker 1: small town, they would do like trick or treating on

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Speaker 1: the square. And then my dad was a professor and

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Speaker 1: he would do trick or treating. Well, he wouldn't, but

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Speaker 1: the college he worked at. I would do trick or

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Speaker 1: treating at the college and they would have games and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I knew all the good houses, I knew where to

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Speaker 1: get the bars. So it was a it was a

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Speaker 1: big thing for me. And also we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about more in the history. But the neighborhood I grew

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Speaker 1: up in was pretty far spread, like you would get

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Speaker 1: in a truck to trick or treat.

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Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah, it just.

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Speaker 1: Didn't you could walk get you know, people really did

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Speaker 1: it up. They would build these haunted houses and things. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was It was fun times. I enjoyed it. Oh

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Speaker 1: that's fabulous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've got I've got a lot of great

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Speaker 2: memories too, of right, and especially like so I lived

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Speaker 2: for I lived in Ohio for a while when I

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Speaker 2: was real little in Pennsylvania and obviously the weather there

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Speaker 2: during like the nineteen eighties was a little bit cooler perhaps,

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Speaker 2: and so you know, trying to find a costume that

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Speaker 2: would be appropriate for trigger treating in and then moving

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Speaker 2: to South Florida and having the complete opposite be the issue.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, just just getting to see different you know,

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Speaker 2: like sometimes I would go with friends and see what

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Speaker 2: their neighborhoods were up to and just all the different Yeah,

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Speaker 2: all the different situations. Yes, I had a really good

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Speaker 2: time just going to my library, Yes, costume.

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Speaker 1: Party or the library, true colors. But also it was

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Speaker 1: I did that too. It was great.

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Speaker 2: I was like, wait a minute, I get to go

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Speaker 2: to the library and there's going to be candy there, Like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I get to wear something more ridiculous than what I

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Speaker 2: usually get to wear.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah, And as I've said before, I actually the

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Speaker 1: candy was for bartering for me.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, right right right.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to eat it. I wanted to I

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Speaker 1: wanted to get something out like.

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Speaker 2: This is my currency for like the next couple months. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I could get pretty far with it, to be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, and we did. In our recent Halloween marketing episode,

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Speaker 1: we asked for people to write in about their trick

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Speaker 1: or treating experiences in the US, but other countries and

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Speaker 1: people have written in and it's been really interesting. Keep

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Speaker 1: that coming, oh yeah, because we would love to get

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Speaker 1: a full picture of it. It's it's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And yeah, I was not able to get to

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Speaker 2: the tabs that I have opened that would give any

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Speaker 2: anxiety that have to do with international Halloween traditions. I've

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Speaker 2: not been able to get to those today, so few

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Speaker 2: of those are going to be in this In this outline, you.

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Speaker 1: Did give me anxiety, which is perfect for a Halloween

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Speaker 1: outline there. I don't like a lot of tabs listeners.

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Speaker 1: If you didn't know that a bake me nervous.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Annie is like a like an open one,

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Speaker 2: close one kind of kind of human. I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to tell you how many tabs I have opened right now.

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Speaker 2: I don't think you want to know.

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Speaker 1: I might die on the spot, and that's not what

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Speaker 1: we need for this episode. No, no, never, I would

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Speaker 1: say for this one, see our pumpkin.

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Speaker 2: Episode yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: Yep, and our past candy episodes, which yes, does encompass

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Speaker 1: a lot of the candies that I tried to get

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Speaker 1: Yeah during Halloween.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think uh reeses and twigs and no not

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Speaker 2: twixts terrible?

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Speaker 1: Come on?

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Speaker 2: Oh you hate sorry uh mounds and or almenjoy Yes, okay,

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Speaker 2: kit cats, kit cats? Oh how can I forget kit Cats, Twizzlers,

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Speaker 2: eminent peanuts.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. You don't have to remember this for me.

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Speaker 1: I have no right getting this offended.

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Speaker 2: You're also you've been very mysterious about what the five are.

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Speaker 1: And the last one is coming soon to a podcast.

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Speaker 1: Sneer you, saver.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even know that we had done four of them.

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Speaker 1: Yet anyway, Yes, these are my five candy Well, these

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Speaker 1: are my four and you'll get the fifth soon. Yes, apples, Yes.

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Speaker 1: Talked about some stuff related to this and apple turnips maybe,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, turnips, I will say, smante The other podcast

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Speaker 1: I Do Stuff I've Never Told You has an episode

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Speaker 1: on Halloween, food traditions and women, which I actually have

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Speaker 1: talked about on this podcast before. I believe in the

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Speaker 1: apple episode that there are some traditions of like peeling

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Speaker 1: an apple and then you see what shape of heel

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Speaker 1: makes and that's who you the first letter of the

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Speaker 1: guy you'll marry or something like that. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of food traditions around that and are related to Halloween traditions.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, that's another corner that I didn't turn today. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like putting some like like roasting some nuts on the

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Speaker 2: fire and seeing what they do, and that can tell

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Speaker 2: you things. All kinds of stuff.

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Speaker 1: It is all kinds of stuff. It's a lot of

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Speaker 1: food related stuff. But we are kind of specifically attempting

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Speaker 1: to hone in on one thing today. Weird for doing

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Speaker 1: our best, which I guess brings us to our question.

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Speaker 2: Oh right, sure, yeah, trick or treating?

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Speaker 1: What is it well.

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Speaker 2: Uh, Trick or treating is a tradition modernly practiced by

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Speaker 2: children on Halloween evening that in practice can happen a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways, but the basic idea is that you

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Speaker 2: dress up in some kind of costume and go around

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Speaker 2: your neighborhood and knock on your neighbor's doors and when

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Speaker 2: they open the door, you say trick or treat and

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Speaker 2: they give you a piece of like small prepackaged candy

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Speaker 2: or some other little treat, and then you keep doing

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Speaker 2: that until you or the older guardians responsible for you

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Speaker 2: are tired of doing that. It's combining the fun of

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Speaker 2: dressing up unusually with the thrill of seeing other people's

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Speaker 2: costumes and decorations, with getting like a bag or bucket

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Speaker 2: or pillowcase full of candy by the end of the adventure.

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Speaker 2: And Halloween, yes, does have ties to like ghosts and

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Speaker 2: demons and witches and other spooky stuff, so there might

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Speaker 2: be the added chill of that. Yeah, but yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: a it's a community party again, like mostly for kids,

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Speaker 2: where you're encouraged to behave a little bit outside the

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Speaker 2: norm and get rewarded for it. I'm getting a little

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Speaker 2: philosophical here, but it is. Trick or treating is a

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Speaker 2: safe experience of the other.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. I mean you go, what else do

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Speaker 1: you go? Door to door in costume and the season

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Speaker 1: it's usually chilly and it's changing, just has a feeling

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Speaker 1: around it. And then yeah, at the end of the

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Speaker 1: night you can be like that.

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Speaker 2: Hall back full of treats. So good. Yeah. Trig or

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Speaker 2: treating events can also be held in other places, you know,

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Speaker 2: some kind of community center of some kind, maybe indoors

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Speaker 2: with like tables set up like a library or a church,

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Speaker 2: or outdoors in a town square or park or a

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Speaker 2: parking lot for a trunk or treat. Trunk or treats

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Speaker 2: are where when families basically do like Halloween tailgating, Like

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Speaker 2: you all set up your hatchbacks with like cute little

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Speaker 2: displays and have a party and all of these, all

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Speaker 2: of these variations, like, there are some keyboard criticisms of them,

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Speaker 2: although there are lots of reasons why the kind of

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Speaker 2: traditional in scare quotes walking around a neighborhood knocking on

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Speaker 2: doors might not be tenable. You know, maybe, like Annie,

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Speaker 2: your neighborhood isn't walkable. Maybe folks have mobility issues. Maybe

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Speaker 2: you want to set something up that takes into consideration

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Speaker 2: food sensitivities or environmental stimuli sensitivities. Maybe you flatly do

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Speaker 2: not have time on whatever random night of the week

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Speaker 2: Halloween falls on that year, and you need to set

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Speaker 2: up something different, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the first year I've heard of the

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Speaker 1: blue pumpkins, the teal pumpkins.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, people will put a teal colored pumpkin outside

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Speaker 2: their house if they offer non food related treats, just

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Speaker 2: just in case, in case you need that, just to

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Speaker 2: put people's minds at ease, you know. And right on

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Speaker 2: that note, Yeah, people can choose to give out anything really, uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, like maybe maybe little bags of chips or whatever, stickers,

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Speaker 2: small toys, pencils, crayons, pennies, miniboxes of raisins, pamphlets of

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Speaker 2: some kind, toothpaste. And I have put those items roughly

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Speaker 2: in order of how afraid I would personally be of

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Speaker 2: someone egging my house if I gave them out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the worst I ever got was that

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Speaker 1: I got a nickel one time, which you know, ultimately

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Speaker 1: that's fine as a kid. And it clearly like looking back,

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Speaker 1: this poor woman was not anticipating meats, and she was

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Speaker 1: just looking at just trying to give you something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I just remember being a nickel.

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Speaker 2: In this economy, like.

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Speaker 1: Get any candy with that. Oh, she was doing her best.

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Speaker 2: She was she was shout out to everyone who's just

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Speaker 2: doing their best.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean I if I got sugar treaters,

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Speaker 1: I would I would not have anything because I don't

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Speaker 1: usually get them, but one year I might mm hmmm,

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Speaker 1: and what will I do. I'll have to come up

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Speaker 1: with something.

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Speaker 2: I usually panic by a bag of Halloween candy in

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Speaker 2: the in the week leading up to Halloween and then

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Speaker 2: like put like some kind of like lantern. I like,

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Speaker 2: turn off my porch light, but put like a lantern

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Speaker 2: and a and a bucket of the candy outside and

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Speaker 2: go like leave me alone, but have some candy.

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Speaker 1: Is this your I can't remember. Is this your first

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Speaker 1: year having Halloween at your house?

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Speaker 2: Uh? Second second year? Is that correct? Uh? I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure what is time anymore? Yeah? Yeah, no, that's that's

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Speaker 2: what I That's what I did last year. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think I think it's my second year. Yeah. I'm also

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Speaker 2: usually like off at a Halloween party or something, so

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Speaker 2: I'm not like greeting tricker treating because yeah, like my

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Speaker 2: neighborhood isn't really walkable. Uh, it's not really full of

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Speaker 2: tricker treaters. H yeah, mm hmmm.

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Speaker 1: One time I got a trigger treater and I was

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Speaker 1: dressed in a what I thought wasn't a scary costume.

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Speaker 1: But I clearly scared the kids. Oh uh uh huh

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Speaker 1: uh that is consideration. Yeah, so I I still think

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Speaker 1: about that. I wasn't trying to scare any much.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, you also never know what a kid, especially

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Speaker 2: is going to get freaked out by. Indeed, I mean,

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Speaker 2: in my personal experience, if I'm wearing something with like

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Speaker 2: fake blood dripping down on my face or like you know,

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Speaker 2: like like like my eyes hollowed out like a creepy

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Speaker 2: ghost lady or something like that, Like kids are like,

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Speaker 2: oh cool, fun, but anything anything, you know, sometimes they're

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Speaker 2: just like, don't like your hat. That's it.

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Speaker 1: I think I was a zombie Green Day groupie.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's so specific, my guy, that's wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, scared the kids, Yeah, scared the kids. Well, what

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Speaker 1: about the nutrition.

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Speaker 2: Don't don't eat traditions? Need to do that. Phantom Tollbooth

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Speaker 2: episode at some point don't eat don't eat traditions also,

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Speaker 2: you know, like if you do get a Halloween haul,

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Speaker 2: pace yourself. Just pace yourself, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, why is why words, Well, we do have

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Speaker 1: some numbers for you, We do so.

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Speaker 2: As I said in that All Hallow's marketing episode, Halloween

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Speaker 2: spending is expected to hit thirteen point one billion dollars

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Speaker 2: this year, and candy purchases specifically are expected to make

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Speaker 2: up three point nine billion dollars worth of that, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of that might go to trigger treating. As

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Speaker 2: of twenty sixteen, so a little bit older, but as

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Speaker 2: of twenty sixteen, seventy six percent of households said they

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Speaker 2: were planning on handing out candy. In the US, however,

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Speaker 2: candy has like superseded the trigger treating tradition. According to

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Speaker 2: a survey from the National Confectioners Association, ninety four percent

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Speaker 2: of American consumers say that they're going to share chocolate

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Speaker 2: and candy with friends and family this year as part

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Speaker 2: of Halloween festivities, and over half of adults say they

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Speaker 2: buy extra candy for themselves or by some even if

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Speaker 2: they don't expect any trigger treaters.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm on board. That's fun.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. I wanted to put this in here

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Speaker 2: because I was so charmed by it. So every year,

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Speaker 2: the US Census Bureau gets into the Halloween spirit by

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Speaker 2: releasing a set of statistics surrounding the holiday. So for

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Speaker 2: this year, they report that there are some seventy three

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Speaker 2: point one million kids under the age of eighteen in

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Speaker 2: the US, thus potential trigger treaters, and one hundred and

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Speaker 2: thirty three point two million occupied housing units thus potential

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Speaker 2: trigger treat stops. Of those stops, fifty six point six

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Speaker 2: million have stairs that trick or treaters would have to

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Speaker 2: climb to obtain treats. All right, yeah, yeah. Further, they

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Speaker 2: report that there are three thy four hundred and nine

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Speaker 2: confectionery and nut shops in the country and six hundred

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Speaker 2: and eighty one costume and formal wear rental shops.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah.

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Speaker 2: These numbers range from surveys taken in twenty twenty three

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Speaker 2: and twenty twenty four. It's just like the cutest, driest

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Speaker 2: most Like, I'm just like, that's so cool, Thank you,

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Speaker 2: US Sentence Bureau.

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Speaker 1: You have to go upstairs to get to this house?

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, cool?

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Speaker 1: As a kid, that knowledge is important.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, Well, utise F, the United Nations

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Speaker 2: International Children's Emergency Fund, runs a Trick or Treat fund

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Speaker 2: raising campaign every year in which they give out these

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Speaker 2: little like orange cardboard boxes to kids and encourage them

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Speaker 2: to ask for spare change along with candy. It is

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Speaker 2: apparently the longest running youth engagement campaign in the United States,

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Speaker 2: currently in its seventy fifth year as of twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: and they've raised almost two hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 1: For them. Yeah. Yeah, oh, but the origins were not that.

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Speaker 2: No, no birds, And we are going to get into

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Speaker 2: the history as soon as we get back from a

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Speaker 2: quick break for a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: And we're back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So the history of trick or treating is a long

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Speaker 1: one that is rife with myth and best theories and

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Speaker 1: some of the and people purport to be the truth,

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Speaker 1: but I think that loverly overly stated in their truthfulness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's a lot of rewriting of history that's

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Speaker 2: gone on about all of this over the over the ages,

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Speaker 2: and so it's kind of difficult to figure out, yes, exactitudes, but.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, but one of the prevailing lines of thought is

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Speaker 1: that the practice of trick or treating traces all the

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Speaker 1: way back to the ancient Celtic celebration of Sowyn two

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Speaker 1: thousand years ago. New Year's Day at the time took

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Speaker 1: place on November first, or perhaps more accurately, the end

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Speaker 1: of summer and beginning of winter, and the night before.

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Speaker 1: It was believed to be a time when the veil

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Speaker 1: between the living and the spirit worlds was thinnest, meaning

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Speaker 1: that demons and spirits could roam the earth amongst the living.

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Speaker 1: To appease them, people would give offerings of food, light,

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Speaker 1: bond fires, and were disguises so as not to be recognized.

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Speaker 1: This was also a time of seasonal change, heralding winter,

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Speaker 1: which has long been a time of preparing for harsh

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Speaker 1: times to come, so very like seasonal harvest celebration thing. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: ancient Rome had the harvest festival of Pomona, which also

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Speaker 1: involved food offerings that took place around the same time.

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Speaker 2: Maybe okay, so slight side quest, but Pomona was this

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Speaker 2: kind of small time goddess or spirit in Roman mythology,

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Speaker 2: a tree nymph who specifically ruled cultivated fruit and orchards.

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Speaker 2: In Ovid's Metamorphosis from like eight C. There is a

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Speaker 2: story about how her husband Vertumness, the god of seasonal

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Speaker 2: change and plant growth, wooed her, so people were celebrating her,

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Speaker 2: but there's no evidence that there was actually a festival

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Speaker 2: in her honor, and especially not on November first, specifically

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Speaker 2: or thereabouts. Vertumnus had or has a harvest festival on

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Speaker 2: August thirteenth. It seems like the connection between Pomona and

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Speaker 2: Halloween was made while Halloween traditions were in development later on,

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Speaker 2: like in the seventeen hundreds when the poet Samuel Garth

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Speaker 2: put together this prominent new English translation of the Metamorphosis.

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Speaker 2: So the story was fresh in people's minds, and that

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Speaker 2: coincided with apples or palms sharing an etymology with Pomona,

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Speaker 2: you know, apples being abundant in the area during the

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Speaker 2: fall harvest and often being incorporated in Halloween activities. See

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Speaker 2: our Apple episode for more on that.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, Yes, in the seventh century CE, Christian sex

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Speaker 1: took pagan holidays like Sowyn and made them more Christian ye,

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Speaker 1: or at least that's what a lot of scholars believe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so at the time, there was a Christian feast

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Speaker 2: day for honoring those who had died for their beliefs,

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Speaker 2: called All Saints Day. Because this was a time when

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Speaker 2: there were a lot of there was a lot of

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Speaker 2: religious persecution against Christians, and the Roman Church was basically like, Okay, look,

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Speaker 2: we can't feast every martyr individually. We're going to need

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Speaker 2: a group holiday. So they came up with All Saints Day.

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Speaker 2: It was originally celebrated on May thirteenth, we think, in

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Speaker 2: like the early seventh century, but over the next few

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Speaker 2: hundred years it got shifted to November first, like certainly

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Speaker 2: by the eleventh century or so. The Church argues that

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Speaker 2: this was entirely for their own reasons, nothing to do

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Speaker 2: with pagan anything, but whatever happened, whatever happened.

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Speaker 1: The Celtic New Year's Day became All Saints Day or

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Speaker 1: All Hallow's Day, while the night before became known as

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Speaker 1: All Hallows Eve. The night still featured costumes, fires, and gifts,

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Speaker 1: and later became known as Halloween. Another thread that might

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Speaker 1: have helped create our modern day trigger treating is a

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Speaker 1: sixteenth century English practice of impoverished people begging for food

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Speaker 1: on All Souls Day, which was a practice that was

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Speaker 1: later largely taken over by children. All Souls Day is

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Speaker 1: a day of remembrance that Christians celebrated on November two,

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Speaker 1: first designated in the eleventh century CE. Often people would

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Speaker 1: give what we're called soul cakes. Are these sweet fall

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Speaker 1: spiced cakes adorned with cross on top in exchange for

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Speaker 1: a prayer for the recently deceased loved ones. Hallowed out

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Speaker 1: turnips attached to sticks and lit with candles representing souls

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Speaker 1: in purgatory may have been involved, if not on this day,

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Speaker 1: then maybe on Halloween.

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Speaker 2: And that whole turnip thing may have gotten tied into

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Speaker 2: other traditions around Ireland and Scotland and England with the

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Speaker 2: concept that you can ward off malevolent spirits with some

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Speaker 2: kind of carved vegetable lantern, usually a turnip, but sometimes

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Speaker 2: a potato or a beat would be used. And then

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Speaker 2: also with the legend of Stingy Jack, who's this like

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Speaker 2: wandering trickster type spirit who carries a turnip lantern And

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Speaker 2: you can see our Pumpkin episode for a dramatic telling

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Speaker 2: of that. But yeah, those traditions were coming up around

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Speaker 2: the same time, like the fifteen to sixteen hundreds or so.

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Speaker 2: And another thing we have to talk about medieval mumming

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Speaker 2: or guysing. All right, This was, or kind of is

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Speaker 2: a seasonal winter game of sorts that occurred around northern

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Speaker 2: Europe and the British Isles, where people would dress up

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Speaker 2: in these wild or silly or like otherwise identity concealing disguises,

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Speaker 2: hence guysing disguises, yeah, and go around to people's homes

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Speaker 2: and perform some kind of song or dance or rehearsal

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Speaker 2: of a poem or play or something I don't know,

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Speaker 2: maybe challenge the hosts to a dance off or a

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Speaker 2: game of dice or something, and they would receive in

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Speaker 2: turn refreshment. It was spread around different winter holidays in

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Speaker 2: different places, and might be a little bit connected to Carnival.

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Speaker 2: There are complaints about this practice going back to the

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Speaker 2: thirteen hundreds, and I love that our historical data about

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Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff actually is based in complaints.

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Speaker 1: If I had to be ready to do a dance

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Speaker 1: off at any time, I would also complain.

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Speaker 2: Look, man, you don't have Netflix. You have to make

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Speaker 2: your own fun. Like they were brightening your day. It's true,

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Speaker 2: this feels weird. Dungeons and dragons. But yeah, the concept

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Speaker 2: of mumming or guysing was pretty widespread by this whole

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Speaker 2: period of time that we've been talking about where these

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Speaker 2: other traditions were evolving, like the fifteen hundreds or so.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and then when Europeans started colonizing the United States,

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Speaker 1: they brought their Halloween traditions with them, though it wasn't

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Speaker 1: until the eighteen hundreds that they grew in popularity. This comes,

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Speaker 1: I did, with the spike in the arrival of Irish

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Speaker 1: and Scottish immigrants, and this is where Halloween sort of

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Speaker 1: merged with the idea of fall harvest in the United States.

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Speaker 1: In eighteen sixty nine, Queen Victoria pinned one of the

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Speaker 1: first written mentions of Halloween in conjunction with some of

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Speaker 1: our more modern understandings of it. After that, more written

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Speaker 1: mentions started appearing, perhaps because of her, including an eighteen

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Speaker 1: seventy American mention that went out of its way to

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Speaker 1: label Halloween as an English holiday, because at the time

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Speaker 1: there was still some concern about associating too closely with

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Speaker 1: English things in America.

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Speaker 2: Again a complaint.

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Speaker 1: I love it, Oh, so many complaints. And we're about

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Speaker 1: to get into more of them.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, Oh yes.

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Speaker 1: Something else that might have influenced our modern day Halloween

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Speaker 1: is the American and Canadian practice of bell snickeling and

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Speaker 1: the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

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Speaker 2: I strongly believe this is based in the practice of

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Speaker 2: mumming and guysing. But yes, please continue.

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Speaker 1: Yes, this was a Christmas tradition that involved going door

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Speaker 1: to door in costume for a trick. Visitors would be

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Speaker 1: rewarded food or drink, so you would perform like a

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Speaker 1: little magic trick or something and get a reward. Or

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Speaker 1: people even scared kids in the house and then questioned

435
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: how good they'd been, Do you deserve a treat? In

436
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: some versions, people would try to guess the visitors costumes

437
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: and if they couldn't, that person got a treat, which

438
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: I would win that a million times over.

439
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: He'd be so good at that game, I would win

440
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: every time.

441
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: This further evolved into people trying to imitate supernatural events

442
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: like shaking windows or using something to fasten doors shut

443
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: so when people try to open the door it'd be stuck,

444
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: or stringing rope across paths, painting buildings, black slathering seats,

445
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: and churches with molasses, exploding pipe bombs, or even taking

446
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: apart farming equipment and putting it back together on a roof,

447
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: just for instance. Now, these again were complaints. I can't

448
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: confirm them, and they are only some of the complaints.

449
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: But whoa generally speaking, put something that doesn't belong on

450
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: a roof on a roof is like a really old

451
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: school trick. I read about that in some of the

452
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: mumming guysing literature that I was checking out.

453
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: So I have to say, it would scare me, It

454
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: would scare me. So by the twentieth century, property owners

455
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: were mounting their own defenses or doing things like shooting

456
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: buckshot at vandal and officials were urging parents to watch

457
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: their children and warn them away from pranking. As Halloween

458
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: moved more into the city, the pranks grew more serious.

459
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: Fire alarms pulled, houses, vandalized, bricks thrown through windows, and

460
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: young vandals demanding something or else threatening a prank, So

461
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: give me a treat or else. Essentially yes, which brings

462
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: us too. In the nineteen twenties, this is the first

463
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: time we see the phrase chick or treat in this context.

464
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: It was specifically out of an Alberta magazine Alberta, Canada,

465
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: describing the practice. The first American mentioned was from a

466
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty eight article detailing the dread homeowners felt that

467
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: night and hearing that phrase. There's a popular narrative that

468
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: in order to curtail this pranking, there was a conservative

469
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: effort to make Halloween a more community, kid oriented thing.

470
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: And notably, this was during the Great Depression and people

471
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: were struggling. So this whole trigar treat thing, it did

472
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: have kind of an edge to it, like I'm suffering,

473
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: give me something. Yeah, yeah, I didn't look too much

474
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: into this. Again, ostensibly a food show, but apparently this

475
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: is also when early haunted houses got started.

476
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 2: Like early like home decorations around Halloween.

477
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, homeowners would put up like booby traps around their

478
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: houses or in their houses to distract young men who

479
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: might vandalize them and scare them away. Again, if we

480
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: were a different show, I would love I would love

481
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: to be so deep into this research. Yeah, yes, yes,

482
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: but okay, once candy became more readily available after World

483
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: War two's rationing when it wasn't trick or treating exploded

484
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: in popularity and United States.

485
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, like kind of immediately, like sugar rationing ended in

486
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 2: the summer of nineteen forty seven, and that fall, magazines

487
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: and candy companies started promoting trigger treating activities and Halloween products.

488
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: And this was only furthered by rapidly expanding suburban neighborhoods,

489
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: and in the fifties there was a rise in more

490
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: Halloween products. Costumes that had traditionally been homemade of things

491
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: like ghost became more often purchased characters from popular entertainment properties.

492
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: The handouts also pivoted away from homemade treats to store bought,

493
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: individually wrapped items.

494
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, prior to this, you might have gotten like like

495
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: cookies or popcorn balls, caramel apples, I don't know, like

496
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: some nice roasted nuts. Money. In the film Arsenic and

497
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: Old Lace, if anyone is familiar with that one, which

498
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: came out in nineteen forty four, you see the main

499
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 2: characters giving out whole pies, like whole full sized pies,

500
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: two children wearing costumes, and y'all, I wasn't there and

501
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 2: I'm not totally sure, Like it's really hard to decode

502
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: sometimes in movies that are older than you, like what

503
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: was meant to be a realistic interpretation of an event

504
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: and what was meant to be obvious like satire or

505
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: a joke or otherwise like out of place on purpose.

506
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 2: And so I genuinely cannot tell if these kooky old

507
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 2: ladies giving out whole pies was meant to be like

508
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: this is something people do or obviously this is something

509
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 2: no one does, and this is how we're setting up

510
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 2: the characters. Can't tell?

511
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah for sure?

512
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 2: Well anyway, sorry, please continue.

513
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: I love that listens. Again, we are in treating you

514
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 1: trick or entreating you. Please write in yes. I want

515
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: to know so much about how other people's trick or

516
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: treating experiences are because I've gotten some interesting things in

517
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: my time. I don't I have never gotten a full pie.

518
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: No, nope, nopeurs I believe popcorn balls are a thing

519
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 2: that I've received.

520
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: I've gotten popcorn. I don't think I've ever gotten a

521
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: popcorn ball.

522
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: I've definitely gotten pencils.

523
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: I got some like gum ones.

524
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 2: Oh okay. My favorite internet purveyor of nerdy perfume, Black

525
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: Phoenix Alchemy Lab one year put out every year they

526
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: have like a Halloween special fall kind of kind of

527
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: line of perfume in one year, they put out one

528
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: called Disappointing pencil.

529
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: Oh wow, so you're not the only one who's gotten

530
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: a pencil.

531
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, and this is and and it smelled,

532
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 2: my guys, it smelled like a pencil. And I don't

533
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 2: know how they do it, like a disappointing Halloween pencil.

534
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 2: That's great anyway. Oh wow, Yes, I bought a bottle.

535
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: Why wouldn't I.

536
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: So you could remember that time in bitterness.

537
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 2: I kind of like the scent of pencils anyway.

538
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a bad smell. So back yeah, back

539
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: to the outline. So the trick part of trick or

540
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: treating kind of fell away around this time, around the

541
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, and homeowners would indicate their openness to trick

542
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: or treaters with lights.

543
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: On or off on their porch. Yeah.

544
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: Yes. The celebrations moved more and more inside and became

545
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: more and more focused on children. Still, there was some

546
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: nervousness around the whole thing. President Truman's Senate Judiciary Committee

547
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: attempted to rebrand Halloween as Youth Honor Day in nineteen fifty.

548
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: This was a day that was meant to cultivate responsibility

549
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: and morality and kids. It didn't really get a lot

550
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: of traction.

551
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: Ah aw. Nineteen fifty was also the year that UNICEF

552
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 2: launched their Trigger Treat fundraising campaign. It came about when

553
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: a couple living outside of Philadelphia, a teacher and a pastor,

554
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 2: decided that they wanted to turn trigger treating into something

555
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: that could get kids to like help communities instead of

556
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: just collect candy, you know, as an exercise in building empathy.

557
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 2: That's nice. They got the idea in nineteen forty seven,

558
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 2: ran a shoe collection for refugee kids in nineteen forty eight,

559
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: and then by nineteen fifty had teamed up with UNICEF,

560
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: and shows like Lassie and Bewitch went on to promote it.

561
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: Yes, and speaking of like a media push. Trick or

562
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: Treating was mentioned in the Peanuts comic strip in nineteen

563
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: fifty one. In nineteen fifty two, millions watched the cartoon

564
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: Trick or Treat with Donald Duck and his nephews. The

565
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 1: plot revolved around his nephews tricking him for candy instead

566
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 1: of explosives.

567
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, he kept trying to blow them up. It was funny.

568
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: You know, I haven't seen it, but that sounds very comical.

569
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: I would have laughed. I did. Companies realized there was

570
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: a lot of money to be made from this whole thing,

571
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: so they started to, you know, maybe we should sell

572
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: we should sell products related to this, and then it's

573
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 1: the Great Pumpkin. Charlie Brown came out in nineteen sixty six.

574
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: About a decade later, though, there was a rise in

575
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: urban legends that suggested it wasn't safe for kids to

576
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: take candy from strangers. And I'm sure all of you

577
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: listeners you've heard these, these tales, razor blade poison, what

578
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: have you in the candy Trying to trace these origins

579
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: of these myths, how hasn't really amounted to anything substantial.

580
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: There was a story out of New York in nineteen

581
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: sixty four where a woman handed out dog biscuits, steel wool,

582
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: and poisonous ant bait to patrons she deemed too old

583
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: to be trigger treating. And this whole thing only led

584
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: to a greater preference for pre wrapped candies.

585
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: It's difficult for me to say how much of this

586
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 2: is just like wrapped into the kind of like like

587
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: like panic, like like Satannic panic, moral panic of the

588
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 2: late seventies to the mid eighties, and how much of

589
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 2: it is like candy company is trying to sell more

590
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: candy and certainly not just couraging that kind of talk. Yeah,

591
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: also to two more things than I swear we can

592
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 2: move on. First off, one of one of the things

593
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 2: that people panic about is like someone's going to put

594
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 2: drugs in my children's candy. And I'm not the first

595
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 2: to say this, this has been on the internet for

596
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 2: a long time. But y'all, drugs are expensive. No one

597
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 2: is going to give your child free drugs. Don't do drugs.

598
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: Be responsible, just saying, just saying. And two, it is

599
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 2: not up to any of us to judge how old

600
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 2: someone is when they're trick or treating. If someone has

601
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: the gumption to come to your door and say trick

602
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 2: or treat to you give them. Give them whatever you're

603
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: handing out, not ant bait. If you're giving out ant bait,

604
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: that's a different you need to go to a different podcast.

605
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 2: I but let people enjoy a simple pleasure. It's so nice,

606
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 2: it's so nice.

607
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have a lot of candy. Probably just I mean, if.

608
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: You're really if you're really running out, be like, look, bud,

609
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 2: I'm down to like two paydays and and that's and

610
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: that's it. So do you want one.

611
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: Form a trick for me?

612
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah?

613
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: Please go on, And I think they would appreciate that,

614
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: you know.

615
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: Now honesty, yeah again, we're all out here trying to

616
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: get through it.

617
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: We are. Well that story from what I read of

618
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 1: the woman in New York who refused it, gave these

619
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: like unsavory items because they were too old, it got

620
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: a lot of traction. It was a big like refuses

621
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:53,479
Speaker 1: to yeah. Yeah. Well, over time, we have seen trick

622
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: or treating evolve a trunk or treat as mentioned, like

623
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: going into a town square or something like that. That

624
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 1: are going into a college and doing something like that.

625
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: We even mentioned the emergency candy thing that Hershey.

626
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 2: Does or was it hers Hershey? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

627
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 2: wait maybe Eminem's Eminem's. Oh gosh, very specific. The marketing

628
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: did not work.

629
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: Wow, get on that Eminem's and you know, yeah, having

630
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: a simple bowl of candy outside the door with rules

631
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: about how much you could take. I always loved the

632
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: like note card that was one bird child. Yes, yeah,

633
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: so it has changed from that in my neighborhood, they

634
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: still the kids still do it. I'm kind of in

635
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: like an apartment building and I'm on the second floor,

636
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: so I don't normally see it, but I can. They're

637
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: still out there and there. I love it. I'm very

638
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: happy that it still continues.

639
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Oh yeah. It's there's a tenacity to trigger

640
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 2: treating in During what I'd call the mall Heyday of

641
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties, trigger treating in shopping malls was a

642
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: whole thing. Like you would go in costume and like

643
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: gohot store to store and every store would have some

644
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 2: poor attendant handing out candy to you and Trunker treating

645
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 2: specifically goes back to at least nineteen ninety four. That's

646
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 2: the year that was mentioned in this article in the

647
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: Birmingham News newspaper that was talking about an event held

648
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: at a Baptist church in Center Point, Alabama, So that's

649
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 2: kind of our earliest reference to that one. In twenty nineteen,

650
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: the Halloween and Costume Association, which is an American trade organization,

651
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 2: started a petition to move Halloween from October thirty first

652
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 2: to the last Saturday in October, ostensibly to make it

653
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 2: easier for consumers to carve out time to celebrate. That

654
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: did not work. People didn't like that one. So they

655
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 2: backed off and opted to create a new holiday on

656
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 2: that last Saturday, which they have dubbed National trigg or

657
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 2: Treat Day. This is the first that I've heard of

658
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 2: this entire thing, though, so I don't think it has

659
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 2: gained a whole lot of traction. But y'all right, in.

660
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: I've heard of it.

661
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, okay, cool, all right, yeah.

662
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, just like I've heard about how they want to

663
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: move the Super Bowl to a different day. Oh goodness

664
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: now because of workday. Come yeah, yeah, I want a

665
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: day to recover.

666
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 2: Again.

667
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: Be responsible, guys, Yes, definitely, but I feel like even

668
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: if you stay up late, you eat too much candy. Anyway,

669
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: a few.

670
00:44:53,360 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: Again, be responsible, my fellow humans. Anyways, I get it you.

671
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: A few communities did ban door to door trigger treating

672
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty because of the pandemic.

673
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there was a little bit of a decline

674
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: in trigger treating during the pandemic appause maybe though, though

675
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: in general, like the rise of these corporate and government

676
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 2: and other community gatherings for trigger treaters has changed the

677
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: flow through neighborhoods and like and like this was being

678
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: written about by like twenty sixteen, twenty eighteen, so it's

679
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: not a new to the pandemic kind of thing.

680
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, neighborhoods have a lot to say about this, and

681
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: I understand.

682
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of like handwringing about it online.

683
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: And one of the really good points I think is

684
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: that people who are bemoaning the loss of the neighborhood

685
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: trigger treat are kind of bemoaning the loss of having

686
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: a community and a trust in your neighbor in your neighborhood,

687
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 2: like knowing your neighbors and trusting them and getting to

688
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 2: see them and even having a little bit of a

689
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 2: social obligation to do it and what all of that meant.

690
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: And you know, obviously not everyone lives in an idyllic

691
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: nineteen fifties neighborhood, and that's always been the case, and

692
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 2: so you know, like also, I do think it's really good,

693
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: especially in these times when again we're all a little

694
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 2: stressed out, to know your neighbors and to have that

695
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 2: community in place. But also it's difficult because who wouldn't

696
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:49,760
Speaker 2: rather just disassociate on their couch.

697
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's also kind of funny because I have

698
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: a lot of friends who have of I would say, acclimated,

699
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: settled into a new neighborhood, like bought house and want

700
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: to like they buy all the candy, they're ready. Yeah, yeah,

701
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: no kids. Yeah, which I get that too. It's hard

702
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: to know. It's hard to know if you knock on

703
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: someone's door whether it's light on, light off. Thing doesn't

704
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 1: necessarily indicate what it used to indicate.

705
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like you can kind of scope by

706
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 2: the neighborhood, Like if a whole neighborhood has like the

707
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 2: lights and the inflatable decorations, then you know, like that's

708
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: a pretty good chance that they're into trigger treating too. Yes,

709
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 2: if you know, like every other house has like a

710
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: tumnal wreath on their door, then probably not.

711
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: For haunted reasons. Oh. I also want to say, again,

712
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 1: we're a food show, so I didn't go into this

713
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: and I don't even know how much I would have found.

714
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: But there was a lot of talk about like guy

715
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 1: Fawke's day.

716
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 2: Oh right, totally.

717
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: In some ways to Halloween and our traditions. So once again, listeners,

718
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: we're counting on you. We want to hear from you.

719
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, we always do. But right, yeah, about this,

720
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 2: particularly because we're clearly into it. But yeah, I think

721
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: that that is all we have to say about trigger

722
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 2: treating for now.

723
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: It is. But we do already have some listener mail for.

724
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 2: You, and we will get into that as soon as

725
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 2: we get back from one more quick break forward from

726
00:48:52,440 --> 00:49:03,439
Speaker 2: our sponsors. And we're back.

727
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with this. Yes,

728
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: I think that was excellent. Yeah, all right, Tracy wrote,

729
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: just listen to the apricot episode. Annie mentioned the cultural significance.

730
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 1: While I'm pretty sure y'all were referring to the ancient

731
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: Chinese and European history, Apricots also show up in an

732
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: important American cultural history, Brownies. Brownies were invented in Chicago,

733
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: allegedly for the World's Fair in eighteen ninety four. Attached

734
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: is a link to the Palmer Our Hotel recipe for

735
00:49:55,520 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: brownies featuring apricot sauce. We haven't done a Brownies episode yet.

736
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 2: We haven't.

737
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: I don't think we have.

738
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that I've I know that I've like

739
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 2: done my brief Google about it. Maybe I was like, oh,

740
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 2: this is tricky. Yeah, I guess we need to. I

741
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 2: guess we need to do an episode about brownies.

742
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: I would love to.

743
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 2: Uh, I mean especially if the apricot sauce is involved.

744
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, this is my When I was in high school,

745
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: I would always make not a sponsor Duncan Hines brownies

746
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: and I would get asked like, what is your recipe?

747
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: And I would be like, oh, you know him and Hall.

748
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 2: But it was, you know, just from a box. Yeah,

749
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 2: like no, not even any any nothing, yeah, no, no,

750
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 2: no occasions just.

751
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: But I rode that way as long as I could.

752
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 2: I am a sucker for Brownie and Blondie both.

753
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

754
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 2: The texture, the texture is so good, Joe wrote This

755
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: email was supposed to be sent much sooner, but in

756
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 2: my determination to cook the recipe beforehand, it fell by

757
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 2: the wayside because of the difficulty in sourcing one of

758
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 2: the ingredients. What ingredient catfish nuggets, Not catfish filets, not

759
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 2: a whole catfish, not catfish steaks. Who even knew that existed?

760
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: But catfish nuggets. None of my usual grocery stores had it,

761
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 2: not even h Mart, which is usually pretty good on

762
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 2: the seafood front. But the search finally came to an

763
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 2: end this week and I was able to find them

764
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 2: at a locally owned independent grocery store bless why catfish nuggets.

765
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 2: According to my dad, they hold up during the stewing

766
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 2: process without falling apart the way that most fish would,

767
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 2: even other cuts from the catfish like a filet. I

768
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 2: can't remember if I've said this before, but my parents'

769
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,720
Speaker 2: home province in the Philippines is known for stewing things

770
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 2: in coconut milk. This dish is catfish nuggets and a

771
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 2: ginger coconut milk broth. Don't get me wrong, I love

772
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 2: fried catfish, but I think this is a superior application.

773
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: It's satisfying on so many levels. Creamy from the coconut milk,

774
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: warming from the ginger, and substantial from the catfish nuggets. Honestly,

775
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: the search was worth it when I sat down to

776
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 2: eat the dish and was immediately taken back to dinners

777
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 2: at my parents' house. Recipe is enclosed below.

778
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: And yes, if anybody wants the recipe, Joe did and

779
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 1: in fact and close it.

780
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 2: M m hmm yeah, yeah, Oh it does sound so good.

781
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 2: Ginger and coconut milk are great. They're they're each great,

782
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 2: they're great together and doing a good simmer of catfish

783
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 2: in there right, Oh.

784
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, this sounds excellent. And I have to say Joe

785
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: has written, has sentas recipes before and I have done

786
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: them and they're yeah, they're really good. So I'm excited.

787
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: I'm excited to try this goodness. Oh so it sounds

788
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: so good.

789
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,240
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

790
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: And you know, listeners, we do love receiving recipes.

791
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely.

792
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:29,800
Speaker 1: M hmmm hm. Please keep those coming. If you would

793
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: like this one, we will send it to you. Just

794
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:35,280
Speaker 1: let us know. And thanks to both of these listeners

795
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 1: for writing in. If you would like to write to us,

796
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 1: you can Our email is hello at savorpod dot com.

797
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,439
Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on

798
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 2: Instagram and blue Sky at savor pod, and we do

799
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,399
Speaker 2: hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio

800
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 2: or more podcasts my heart Radio. You can visit the

801
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

802
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 2: favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan

803
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 2: Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and

804
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 2: we hope that lots more good things are coming your

805
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 2: way