1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. 6 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is Noah. They call 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 3: me Ben. 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 4: We're joined as always with our super producer Dylan the 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 4: Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you argute you are here. 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 4: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 4: If you are joining our listener mail program the evening 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 4: it publishes, folks, friends and neighbors, Welcome to June nineteenth. 13 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 4: It is an almost birthday season for us, you guys 14 00:00:55,040 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 4: not too long away. Guess it's weird, right right, So 15 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 4: shout out of course again to everybody for joining us. 16 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 4: We're very excited about tonight's program. We're going to learn 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:16,199 Speaker 4: a lot from Pallenteer, or about Palenteer from some anonymous sources. 18 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: Who reached out. 19 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 4: Before we do anything, though, we'd like to pause for 20 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 4: a word from our sponsors, and then share a very 21 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 4: bizarre story that a listener hipped us to earlier. 22 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 2: And we've returned, guys every once in a while, the 23 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: fine folks who call in to the voicemail system leave 24 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: us with something that it's a gem. That's the only 25 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: way to describe it. It's a thing that personally, I 26 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: don't think any of us have really delved into or 27 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: even really heard of before, and it just sends us 28 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: down a rabbit hole. 29 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 3: And scratches all the itches. 30 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: It's just it's perfect. That is what John has gifted 31 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: to us just a little bit before Birthday season. So 32 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: let us go to John and hear what he has 33 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: to say. 34 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 5: Hey, good afternoon, guys. So my name is John. I'm 35 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 5: calling from Connecticut. I have a story that's interesting, but 36 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 5: it's a true story. In nineteen eighty in New York City, 37 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 5: there was a news show called Live at five, I 38 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 5: think it had Michelle marsh and Roland somebody. And so 39 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 5: they reported that this man was kidnapped and his name 40 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 5: was Leon Klinghoffer. He was kidnapped. He was held for 41 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 5: ransom for fifty thousand dollars. Turns out the cops stole 42 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 5: the money out of the trash can where the money 43 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 5: was supposedly left, and then they found Leon Kleanhoffer's body 44 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 5: along the side of the road. One of the highways, 45 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 5: the Merritt Parkway or something similar to that, and they 46 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 5: declared that he was murdered, and they arrested three people. 47 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 5: Those three people were found guilty and put in jail. 48 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 5: Now fast forward five years, and maybe that name Leon 49 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 5: Kleanhffer is familiar to you because it it should be, 50 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 5: or it could be. A man was on a cruise ship, 51 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 5: the Achille Lauro, and he was a man in a wheelchair, 52 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 5: an old guy, fame bio. He was a liquor store owner. 53 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 5: He was old. They had his picture on there. The 54 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 5: terrorsts threw him off the cruise ship into the water 55 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 5: and killed him. They said his name is Leon Klinghoffer, 56 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 5: exactly the same guy. I was in shock. It's like 57 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,839 Speaker 5: they're trying to get away with this, killing Leon Klinghoffer 58 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 5: twice and I can't figure out why. I don't know why. 59 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 5: I think my three minutes are nearly at an end. 60 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 5: That's my story and I'm sticking to it. By the way, 61 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 5: all this stuff is online pictures of the people who 62 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 5: are arrested. Michelle marsh on her newscast reporting on the kidnappings, 63 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 5: reporting also five years later, on the killing of Leon 64 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 5: Kleanhoffer on the Achille Laura. It's all there, so it's 65 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 5: kind of an interesting story. I can't figure it out, 66 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 5: thank you very much. 67 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: But dude, yes, when you send me that or when 68 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 3: you sent us that. 69 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 6: And I listened earlier today for the first time, I said, 70 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 6: first off, out loud. 71 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: What a lovely guy, Yeah to the caller, and is 72 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 3: what a great man? What a gem like you. 73 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: Said, John Rules. Thank you John, for you know, finding us, 74 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 2: for spending some time with us, and for sending us 75 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,119 Speaker 2: in that awesome message and sending us down this trip. 76 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 4: John, and I find you to be a credit to 77 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 4: the great state of Connecticut. 78 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, baby, Connecticut. I've never spent much time up there. 79 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: Let's not get into that because then I'll just start 80 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: thinking about I need to go to Connecticut now. But guys, 81 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: let's dive right into this. So we found a story 82 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 2: from the New York Times, section M, page four, September 83 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 2: twenty fifth, nineteen eighty The headline is three charged with 84 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: kidnapping Bronx liquor dealer. And in this story, guys, maybe 85 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 2: we should go through it a little bit just to 86 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 2: set up the initial Leon Klinghoffer story, which was by 87 00:04:55,480 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 2: the way, definitely reported on by Michelle Marsh. You can 88 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: find a bunch of information on her. She was an 89 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: American broadcast journalist. She worked at I think it was 90 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: WCBSTV in New York City from nineteen seventy nine onwards 91 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 2: and then junked around. She's a journalist and a lot 92 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: of different places for a long long time. And that 93 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 2: Roland somebody, by the way is Roland Smith. You can 94 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: look him up. Rol An d smih. 95 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 6: And you found a half hour video uploaded to YouTube 96 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 6: of like an entire newscast from this era. And can 97 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 6: I just say, in addition to it being an excellent 98 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 6: source for this topic, it was just an awesome blast 99 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 6: from the past. To seeing all the commercials and the 100 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 6: DHS ness of it all, it was an absolute I 101 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 6: watched the whole thing just just to kind of travel 102 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 6: back in time. 103 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 3: It was really neat. Oh yeah. 104 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: And Michelle Marsh, by the way, before we even get 105 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 2: in the story, she has a really interesting She is 106 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: a really interesting piece of American broadcast journalism. Because she 107 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 2: was the youngest person in a broadcast anchor position for 108 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: a long time. It reminded me a lot of that 109 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 2: anchorman storyline that film that I think all of us 110 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: appreciate maybe in some small way. Am I just saying 111 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 2: I love it because you. 112 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 6: Kidd the fantastic piece of cinema anchor man also featuring 113 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 6: our coworker Will Ferrell. 114 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: That is correct, But anyway, so she is real. She 115 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: did report on this. Thats not John just imagining things. 116 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: As he says in the message, you can find that 117 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: stuff online. I could not find the specific video of 118 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: Michelle Marsh and Roland reporting on this story. But as 119 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 2: as we said, we did find that New York Times 120 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: piece that says exactly what happened. So let's jump into 121 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 2: there and get our story straight. So in this story, 122 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 2: it discusses a kidnapping of a quote sixty five year 123 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 2: old retired liquor store owner for ten days in the 124 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: Bronx in New York City. It talks about a fifty 125 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: thousand dollars ransom that was paid, talks about the victim 126 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: name written out Leon kling offer Let's spell it k 127 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: l I n g h O f f e er, 128 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: and it says sources close to the case say, quote 129 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: he is a loan shark and has not been found 130 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: at this time on September twenty fifth, nineteen eighty, there 131 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: was an arrest of a man named Alan Futterman that 132 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: it discusses in here, who was released because he it 133 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: was said that he did not have anything to do 134 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: with it, or at least it appeared that he did 135 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 2: anything to do with it. It talks about two people 136 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: who were arrested the day prior, William J. Cody, Barbara 137 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 2: Dhugherty and George Carlow. So those were the three people 138 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: that John talked about being arrested for this kidnapping. At 139 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: this time, Again, Leon Klingoffer's body had not been recovered. 140 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 2: If he was in fact killed, I could not find 141 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: the reporting about Leon kling Offer in nineteen eighty being 142 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: found dead, So that right there might be one of 143 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: the key things to this story. Maybe he wasn't killed. 144 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 6: Where did that come from? The reference to that, because 145 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 6: for some reason, and looking into this, I felt like 146 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 6: I did see some reporting on finding his body. 147 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: Really so I haven't found that, at least in the 148 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: New York Times piece, the only one that I could 149 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 2: actually find that. You can look at the New York 150 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: Times paper, you know, from the reporting, And maybe I 151 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 2: just didn't go deep enough to find the reporting of 152 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: his body being recovered. There is a weird thing that 153 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 2: John states about the money being taken out of the 154 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: trash can by police, which is a little strange. Let's 155 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 2: read this from the article directly. There's a quote in 156 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: here from Missus Klingoffer. 157 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 4: Yes, and this is thanks to journalist Joseph Bchreester. I 158 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 4: hope we're pronouncing that last name correctly. The following Missus 159 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 4: Klinghoffer told the police on September fifteenth that her husband 160 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 4: had been kidnapped and a one hundred thousand dollars ransom demanded. 161 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 4: She said she could only raise fifty thousand dollars. The 162 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 4: sources said, oh, and we should continue for the trash 163 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 4: can story. 164 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: Next quote. 165 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 4: The kidnappers agreed, and the money was dropped off in 166 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 4: a refuse basket on First Avenue and East sixty third Street. 167 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 4: A red van appeared, hesitated, then sped away. 168 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 6: Matt, what I saw was a reference to the next 169 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 6: phase of this saga in terms of finding a. 170 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 3: Bit just just fy I was okay a little, but 171 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 3: I did find it. Yeah, anyway, we'll skip to. 172 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: That, okay, Well, yeah, then it states after that that 173 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 2: policemen watched the garbage can. But in the confusion, someone 174 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: presumably the kidnappers, took the money. So again at this point, 175 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 2: during this stage of the reporting, somebody took the money, 176 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 2: but they weren't sure who. There must be a whole 177 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 2: other piece of this that perhaps Michelle marsh did report 178 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 2: on in nineteen eighty that we just don't have access 179 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 2: to currently. 180 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 4: And I did chase the van, but they said they 181 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 4: lost them in the Bronx. 182 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 3: That's right. 183 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 2: But again, three people were arrested following all of this stuff, right, 184 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: So theoretically they found the people in the van and they, 185 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: I guess theoretically didn't have the money. Somebody did. Maybe 186 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: it was a police officer allegedly. 187 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 3: We just don't know. 188 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 2: So there's that story, right that's September nineteen eighty. Where 189 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: it gets really really weird, is that another news story 190 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: broke on October seventh, nineteen eighty five. There's a cruise 191 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: ship that, just as John said, the Achille Larro, was hijacked, 192 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: at least according to The New York Times, the Washington Post, 193 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: all the major publications in the world at that time, 194 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 2: it was hijacked and a man named Leon Klinghoffer, who 195 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: is described as in nineteen eighty five, a sixty nine 196 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 2: year old Jewish American who was wheelchair bound was shot 197 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,119 Speaker 2: dead by the kidnappers and thrown overboard. 198 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 3: Is it worth mentioning that it was hijacked by the 199 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 3: Palestinian Liberation Front? Yes, it's interesting. 200 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 6: You know, we're going to get into motive here at 201 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 6: some point and the connections of these stories. 202 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 3: But that part, yeah, I just thought it was mentioning. 203 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, It's the strange thing for me is that 204 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: if Leon Klinghoffer in the nineteen eighty story did not 205 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 2: pass away, and this is the same Leon Klingoffer, their 206 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 2: ages would match up almost perfectly if Leon hadn't had 207 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 2: his birthday yet in nineteen eighty five, right, which is 208 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just it to me that part 209 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: is so strange. And then you start digging into stuff 210 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: like the opera that was written and composed called The 211 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 2: Death of cling Offer that is all about the death 212 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 2: of Leon Klingofer on the Achille Lauro and about that 213 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 2: whole hostage situation that occurred on that ship at that time. 214 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 2: It is a huge political and cultural moment, right, which 215 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 2: is just strange. I don't know. I'm trying to think 216 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 2: back of other situations where people have called in or 217 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 2: written in and talked about weird things, where they're watching 218 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 2: the news and they swear it's the same person talking 219 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 2: about this one news story that they had just watched 220 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 2: talking about another news story with a different name, and 221 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: it's like the same person being interviewed, but they're in 222 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: completely different places. They're different people, but they're like the 223 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: eyewitness or one of the eyewitnesses for a thing. You've 224 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 2: seen those before, right, guys. And that's on social media 225 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: all the time. 226 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 3: It's also like a plot point in movies. Really, it's 227 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 3: that guy, what the hell? 228 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 5: You know? 229 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 3: Yeah? 230 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: I know, so, I mean maybe that's why this is 231 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 2: hitting me so strangely. It feels like something that occurred 232 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 2: in a time before you could just put that video 233 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 2: up on YouTube or something, you know for sure. Yeah, 234 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: I just don't know what else to say about this. 235 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 3: Guys. 236 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: You can look yourself into the hijacking of the Achille Lauro. 237 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 2: You can search Palestinian gunman hijack Achille Lauo. It's from 238 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 2: the New York Times archive, but it's also created I 239 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 2: guess I don't know with the Learning Network, which was 240 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: the thing a while back. It's kind of strange. It 241 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 2: was published on October seventh, twenty eleven. You can find that. 242 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 2: You can also find in the New York Times archive 243 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 2: another thing titled ship carrying four hundred seized hijackers demand 244 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 2: release of fifty Palestinians in Israel. To get some of 245 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: the initial reporting on that. 246 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 4: And the way that the aftermath right of the murder, 247 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 4: the motivations for the murder, you can and should read 248 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 4: more about those that happened to Clinghoffer number two we'll 249 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 4: call him, also did a little bit of cursory looking 250 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 4: into name frequency and folks. Clinkoffer is a relatively rare name. 251 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 4: Just the surname itself, there is a it's like one 252 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 4: out of twenty million people in the world. 253 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 3: Wow, we'll have that surname. 254 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 4: So it is not impossible that there are two Klinghoffers, 255 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 4: because fifty six percent of all the new Klinghoffers do 256 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 4: reside in the United States. However, it is a lot. 257 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 4: It's not your ordinary, you know, Donnie Nuyan or John 258 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 4: Smith situation. 259 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 3: About this case. 260 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 6: It did, to the caller's point, have a cultural moment 261 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 6: and like it is something that we may well have 262 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 6: heard of. 263 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 3: I had not. 264 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 6: But it was made into an opera, a theater production 265 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 6: directed by Peter Sellers called The Death of Klinghoffer that 266 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 6: apparently has been kind of shelved or is really hard 267 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 6: to see because it was accused, even by Klinghoffer's widow, 268 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 6: of being anti Semitic and glorifying terrorists. 269 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, there's a whole there's a whole thing 270 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 2: you can read. There's a thing on medium we found 271 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 2: called clean Offerr Cancelation Thoughts written by David McDonald's which 272 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 2: is really interesting. And you can read about the opera 273 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 2: itself on Opera Wire, I think is where I saw 274 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 2: something about it. They call it one of the most 275 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: controversial operas ever created, written by Alice Goodman and composed 276 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 2: by John Adams. 277 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 6: And that is not Peter Sellers, the Peter Sellers, Peter 278 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 6: Sellers of Doctor Strangelove Fame. It's a different dude with 279 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 6: an amazing hairdoos more of it? 280 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 3: He's more of a modern theater guy. 281 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, he guys. There's a lot more to go 282 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 2: into here, anything else we want to talk about. 283 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 6: I think it's a fantastic history mystery. I mean, yeah, 284 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 6: what's the deal? Are they the same guy? Because the 285 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 6: original guy was he was a kind of a bad dude, right, 286 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 6: Wasn't he like a bit of a criminal kind. 287 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 3: Of wasn't he painted as in that light? And then 288 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 3: some of the reporting. 289 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 2: He's described by the New York Times as a loan shark, 290 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 2: a loan shark animal thing. 291 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 292 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: Quote sources close to the case referred to him as that, 293 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: which is like the. 294 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 6: Dude who was killed on the on the ship just 295 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 6: looked like a lovely old fella. But I guess, you know, 296 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 6: we know, bad people sometimes grow into lovely old fellas. 297 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 4: So who's to say the thing is with Klinghoffer. A second, 298 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 4: he has a military record, so his early life is 299 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 4: a little bit easier to track. Fun fact, he knew 300 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 4: Jack Kirby, the legendary comic book artist. 301 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: Okay, wow, so okay, So at least we have a 302 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 2: pretty stable or at least accepted bio of Leon Klinghoffer 303 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: who died on the Achille Lauro. Yes, okay, well that's good. 304 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: Then perhaps we're just dealing with the same name just 305 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 2: strangely lining up with a bunch of other things, very weird, 306 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 2: and by the way, just one other thing. If you're 307 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 2: interested in learning more about Michelle Marsh, you can find 308 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 2: some fairly tragic, sad, but also awesome reporting about her 309 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: when she passed away in twenty seventeen. You can just 310 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 2: type in m I C H E L E m 311 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 2: A R s H and learn about her struggle with 312 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 2: breast cancer and her amazing career she had in broadcast journalism. Okay, 313 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 2: well that's all for now, Thank you so much, John, 314 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 2: really cool stuff. We'll be right back afterword from our sponsor. 315 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 6: And we've returned with I think what'll be a good 316 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 6: little preamble into Ben's listener mail section on Palenteer. This 317 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 6: is really a little more Palenteer adjacent and sort of 318 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 6: all of our discussions around Palenteer. 319 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 3: That triggered a really cool memory from. 320 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 6: Our old buddy Foxillion fast Foot, fast Foot Rights. 321 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 3: Hi, Matt, Ben, and Nole. 322 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 6: I was just listening to your segment on Palenteer, and 323 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 6: I was reminded of a paper I wrote in twenty 324 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 6: nineteen in grad school for a data and Analytics and 325 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 6: politics class. In it, I explained that the one thing 326 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 6: basically saving us from campaigns extorting voters by using AI 327 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 6: to recognize patterns to discover personal vulnerabilities. Is the fact 328 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 6: that no one company has a monopoly on personal data. 329 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,239 Speaker 6: Since Microsoft, Google, Apple, and Meta are to some extent siloed, 330 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 6: there is no central clearing how one can use to 331 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 6: train a data mining operation with Palenteer basically compiling everything 332 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 6: about everyone who knows how bad things will get. I 333 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 6: half jokingly said in a class discussion that there would 334 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 6: be a point where we could ask, Hey, Siri, what 335 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 6: would be the political fallout of doing X? 336 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 3: And we would get an answer. 337 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 6: One classmate, who worked in building software for the IRS, 338 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 6: laughed because she understood how right I was, and to 339 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 6: give credit where it's due. I made this point by 340 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 6: recalling how Ben years ago mentioned on the podcast the 341 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 6: professor he had who was creating a geopolitical prediction model. 342 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 3: I remember that too fast foot. 343 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 6: Now, with Palenteer and the rise of generative AI, including 344 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,959 Speaker 6: the computer that threatened to reveal a programmer's affair, I 345 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 6: can't help but feel like I years ago predicted a 346 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 6: data dystopia and alliteration I came up with in an 347 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 6: early draft of the paper Feel Free to Steal for 348 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 6: what it's worth, I. 349 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 3: Got an A in the class as well. You should 350 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 3: have Fox Silient fast Foot. 351 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 6: What a fantastic point and opprescient ben I throw to you, Sarah, 352 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 6: because I think the point about the predictive model that 353 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 6: you discussed is very much another kind of proto prediction 354 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 6: of this kind of stuff that is seeming to enter 355 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 6: a very slippery slope kind of period. 356 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you so much, Fox oleyan 357 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 4: fast Foot, an old friend of the show and a 358 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 4: friend of ours. Yeah, we're out in Well, we're past 359 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 4: the wild West precipice of large language predictive modeling, right, 360 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 4: And what you are describing is very much on the way. 361 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 4: I would argue, I don't know, my spidey sense says 362 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 4: that something like this already exists. One thing we didn't mention, 363 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 4: for all the nerds in the crowd and our previous 364 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 4: discussion on palanteer, I can't believe we talked about this 365 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 4: so much, but we did not mention where the name 366 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 4: comes from the word. Yeah, we all know a palanteer 367 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 4: is a fictional poisoned magic crystal blad. 368 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 3: I didn't know that. 369 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 6: I did not make that connection at all. I guess 370 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 6: I associate it with like the word paladin. It did 371 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 6: give me kind of those you know, sword and sorcery vibes. 372 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 3: But not that wow. Yeah, a little on the nose, 373 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 3: and then it's. 374 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 5: It is. 375 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 2: But I don't know, guys, we just think about the 376 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 2: word play intelligent, powerful people, and I don't. 377 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 5: Know, you. 378 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 2: Talk about words and their power, and I don't know. 379 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: It's really interesting to make a seeing stone the name 380 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 2: of your company. 381 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's all I know to that point. It's also, uh, 382 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,719 Speaker 4: it's as though, you know, Blackwater instead of changing their 383 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 4: name to Academi or Exy, just changed their name to 384 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 4: like Colonel Kurtz Consulting. You know, it's like they they 385 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 4: could have chosen and a bunch of other names. But 386 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 4: as we'll see later here and perhaps even in an 387 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 4: episode in the future, the CEO doesn't feel some of 388 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 4: the same controversies that we all feel when we learn 389 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 4: about Palatiner. 390 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 3: Nobody does when they're on the inside. 391 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 6: I think, right, maybe not nobody, but they know what 392 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 6: they did. 393 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 3: But I'm with you on that, Ben, I think that's 394 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 3: very true. 395 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 6: There is a certain siloed kind of perspective on these things, 396 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 6: or thinking that you're part of ushering in a new age, right, 397 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 6: the question is whether or not we want that new age. 398 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 3: But then you can also argue that there's a genie 399 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 3: in the bottle kind of approach to looking at these things, 400 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 3: where it. 401 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 6: Is coming, whatever it's gonna be, it's coming, and you know, 402 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 6: you can either get on the train or get left behind. 403 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 6: I'm somewhere in the middle, Like, I don't want to 404 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 6: be a lutie. 405 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 3: I don't want to be shouting at clouds or whatever. 406 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 6: You know, but some of this stuff is scary, and 407 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 6: there is a dystopian vibe to a lot of the 408 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 6: way this stuff as just being so broadly applied, this 409 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 6: machine learning stuff, and. 410 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 3: Just there's seeming to be zero consideration. 411 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 6: Given to the future of this stuff, and like concepts 412 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 6: like privacy and just being humans starting to seem really 413 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 6: frivolous to some of these folks. You know, I don't know, 414 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 6: because because the CEOs are protected from the fallout, I 415 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 6: don't think they even are seeing the way that these 416 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 6: AI models are interacting and starting to do real Terminator 417 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 6: Skynetty type stuff, And it doesn't seem like anybody would 418 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 6: be safe, you know, Right, So his shortsightedness is just 419 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 6: staggering to me. 420 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 3: Right. 421 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 5: Yeah. 422 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 4: It's also prompting a long overdue, much needed conversation about 423 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 4: the efficacy of a C suite of CEOs, Right, what 424 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 4: is the value add there? 425 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 3: Now? 426 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 4: Obviously a lot of very smart people are CEOs. We 427 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 4: know a few, and the ones we know are overall 428 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 4: super cool. But what do you It seems that what 429 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 4: people learn in that echelon of society is often more 430 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 4: about relationships, rapport, and connection. I know this guy from 431 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 4: Harvard Business School. Therefore I will be the CEO, right. 432 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 3: Uh. 433 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 4: And when we get to that conversation, then we really 434 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 4: start to ask ourselves how different would an AI CEO 435 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 4: B How different would an AI CFO be? I don't know. 436 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 3: One could argue potentially better. 437 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 4: One could Yeah, it would depend on the model. 438 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 3: And that's the problem that I have. 439 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 6: It does seem like there are some I mean, like, 440 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 6: I don't I think we should use Hey, I replaced 441 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 6: the top jobs, not the bottom jobs. 442 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Yeah, that's you know what 443 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 3: I mean. Like, I don't know. 444 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 6: I just I'm with a different approach to thinking about AI, 445 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 6: and like the the like I said, there's there, there's 446 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 6: a thing happening, and the question is how is it 447 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 6: going to be steered? 448 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 3: And at what point do you know what I mean? 449 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 6: Like, I guess they're going to be responsible ways of 450 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 6: harnessing stuff like this rather than. 451 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 3: Some of this willy nilly bulls. 452 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 4: On that point, I'd love to shout out a dear 453 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 4: friend of the show, old colleague, doctor Damien Patrick Williams. 454 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 4: Please check out, Yeah, please check out his work on this, 455 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 4: because he spent a lot of time on it. He 456 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 4: is a brilliant mind. And I'll be honest, I think 457 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 4: Damien's okay with me saying this. People like him are 458 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 4: incredibly irritated because you know how like you'll come up 459 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 4: with an idea and you'll, in his case, you'll warn 460 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 4: people about it for decades and then someone else comes 461 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 4: up to you and says your idea as though they 462 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 4: made it up. Poor Damien, man, he's doing the good work. 463 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 2: Let's take it back to Tolkien for a second, guys. 464 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 2: That's because in the conceptualization of this, within that universe, 465 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 2: if you look into one of these things a pall 466 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 2: and teer, you are going to be shown some stuff, 467 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 2: but it may not be exactly the right stuff. It 468 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 2: may not be exactly what's happening. Other the things you 469 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 2: may see may be created by others who are also 470 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: using a pallinteer. 471 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 5: Right. 472 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 2: So this concept of once somebody has accumulated all this data, 473 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 2: once somebody believes they've got the truth of everyone and 474 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 2: they can see what everyone is doing and who everyone is, right, 475 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: that theoretically can be manipulated by anybody else who has 476 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 2: the same you know, thing of power like that, right, 477 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 2: a same list, a same data aggregation platform. Right. And 478 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 2: also in the story, that is considered not a reliable 479 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 2: way to choose your actions. 480 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 5: Right. 481 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 2: So, like, I'm just imagining all this stuff happening together, 482 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: and as you guys are talking about using AI to 483 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 2: make some of those higher level decisions based on what 484 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,479 Speaker 2: exists within that system, I don't know, it just spells 485 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 2: trouble with the capitalist Yeah. 486 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 6: Wait, so you're saying you're against that or you just 487 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 6: think it's a it's another I'm. 488 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 2: Saying it's dangerous to wield that kind of thing. 489 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 4: It's also not as definitive as its champions would suggest. 490 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 4: These are some of the deep philosophical and ethical rubicons 491 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 4: we ran into what the idea of modeling data to 492 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 4: predict the future. The one ring, keep it, keep. 493 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 3: It. 494 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 4: The one thing I can disclose about that, and I 495 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 4: mean we mentioned it previously, is the model that I 496 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 4: was aware of years back was meant entirely to replicate 497 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 4: Afghanistan to such fidelity that you could flip a little 498 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 4: variable or one number in this massive set of matrix info, 499 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 4: and doing so would show you changes in the system 500 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 4: that would have a high degree of accuracy to what 501 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 4: would actually occur in the real world. And that is 502 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 4: really tricky. That's a level of math and analysis that 503 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 4: is Arthur C. Clark level indistinguishable from magic. And I agree 504 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 4: that not magic to gathering. I agree that it is. 505 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 4: It's dangerous because people don't know how to use. 506 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 3: It yet at all. 507 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 4: Right, we know a little bit about it, but it's 508 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 4: a lot like math, it's a logic. It's a lot 509 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 4: like kids finding their parents' guns and being capable of 510 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 4: firing them right, but not knowing that bullets cause damage, 511 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 4: So you have to be very careful where you're aiming it, 512 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 4: and people don't know where to aim palanteeriat. That's the 513 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 4: dangerous thing. 514 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 3: Shoot. 515 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,719 Speaker 2: Internally, I think is what they're going to do. Like 516 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about the actions Israel just took against Iran, 517 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: like that's blown up in the news right now and 518 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 2: literally blowing up across Iran and with drones in Israel 519 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 2: right now, just like who had a model could see 520 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 2: that coming, right? I mean, I guess it was in 521 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 2: the air. But that's the kind of thing guys we've 522 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: been talking about, like full on, full scale war potentially 523 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 2: coming to Iran and what does that mean and the 524 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: potential nuclear situation that we're in. Another one, Yeah, I 525 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 2: heard that, kiddie. Didn't mean to bring up another horrifying thing, 526 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 2: but that's maybe just where we're at. 527 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 6: How it is well with that, I think on that 528 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 6: horrifying thing, cliffhanger, not really cliffhanger. Still still sort of 529 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 6: approaching the cliff, but it's there. We're going to take 530 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 6: a quick. 531 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 3: Break and hear a word from our sponsor. 532 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 6: Thanks again to Fox Silient fast Foot for that thought 533 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 6: provoking email, and I'm glad you did so well on 534 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 6: your project. 535 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 3: We'll be back with more messages from you. We've returned, folks. 536 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 4: We are going to continue, as Noel said, a bit 537 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 4: of an exploration of palans here, and we're doing this 538 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 4: with some anonymous firsthand information, so we're not going to 539 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 4: identify this friend and neighbor of the show, but we 540 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 4: do think this is worth hearing, and we have internally 541 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 4: been able to check on this source and verify that 542 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 4: they're legit. Here we go, Anonymous says, love how you 543 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 4: talked about Palaneer today. I tell everyone I know it's 544 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 4: the most evil company they've never heard of. I work 545 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 4: at Raitheon and we have several contracts with them, especially 546 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 4: with their Foundry software. It is insane stuff. Among a 547 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 4: lot of other things, it can produce real time wargame 548 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 4: scenarios and solutions using satellite imagery of locations of boats 549 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 4: and planes around the world. This is absolutely wild stuff, 550 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 4: and they use the word ontology to describe how Foundry 551 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 4: is built out, essentially a live network of data from 552 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 4: different sources flock cameras, government satellites, et cetera, all working together. 553 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 4: It's crazy stuff, man. And I don't know if you 554 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 4: know anything about their CEO, Alex Karp with a K, 555 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 4: but he's a real piece of work. Whenever I'm in 556 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 4: a meeting with Palanteer teams, they praise him like a god, 557 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 4: and it feels like they're all part of a cult. 558 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 3: It is scary. 559 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 4: So are we familiar with Alex Karp? I can't remember 560 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 4: what we talked about him on air. 561 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 3: Doesn't ring a bell for me? Maybe cat catch me up? 562 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 2: Yeah? 563 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 3: How about this? 564 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 4: As Anonymous pointed out, we got permission to share that 565 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 4: message on the air, and here is a clip. So 566 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 4: we're just gonna play a short part of this interview 567 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 4: from twenty twenty and would love to hear what you 568 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 4: guys think. 569 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 7: Was there ever a time that you wished you had 570 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 7: not done work for Ice? Absolutely completely, you wish you'd 571 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 7: never done it? No, you asked, is there ever a 572 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 7: time did I suffer? I've had some of my favorite 573 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 7: employees leave over ice. Over Ice, I had people protest 574 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 7: to me, some of whom I think asks really legitimate questions. 575 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 5: I have asked. 576 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 7: Myself if I were younger at college, would I be 577 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 7: protesting me? So it sounds like, yes, what is the 578 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 7: most valid criticism that if you are involved in anything 579 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 7: that one instance of injustice, does it tarnish all instances 580 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 7: of justice? And I see this question and every single 581 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 7: thing we do, and by the way, not just a nice. 582 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 7: I see that this with our work with clandestine services. 583 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 7: I mean our product is used on occasion to kill people. 584 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 4: So there we have Alexander Karp. He is right now. 585 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 4: His net worth is over eleven billion dollars depending on 586 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 4: how the stock market is doing. He's clearly a very 587 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 4: intelligent guy. And not all of the quote that we 588 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 4: played together is making it to the show tonight. But 589 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 4: for the context of what he said right before he 590 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 4: said our product is used on occasion to kill people, 591 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 4: he was also talking about the context of transparency. Technical 592 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 4: transparency about how Palateer works is, by his own statements, 593 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 4: a priority for the organization. However, transparency about how Palinar 594 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 4: technologies are used, that is the part where he says, 595 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 4: and he's honest about it. He says, I because of 596 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 4: the contracts we have with clandestine services, we can't really 597 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 4: talk about that kind of transparency, which is tricky because 598 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 4: that's cherry picking the concept of transparency, even if just. 599 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 3: A little bit right, I'd say. So. 600 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 4: It's kind of like how the government of China says 601 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 4: we are huge champions of certain rights, economic rights, mainly, 602 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 4: don't ask about the human ones. 603 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking at an article from him uh from 604 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 2: CNBC on June fifth, or you know where he's being 605 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 2: talked about, and it's this concept of this being really 606 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 2: one of the primary driving issues for AI development in 607 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 2: these you know, these defense spheres and offense spheres. The 608 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 2: concept that if we don't win this war this race, 609 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 2: somebody else does, and in this case they're talking about 610 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 2: or he specifically says, China will win. So we have 611 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 2: to do what we're doing. We're going to do what 612 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 2: we're doing right, and it's not going to stop. 613 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 4: If someone It's the old atomic weaponry question we brought 614 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 4: up in a previous episode. If a gun is going 615 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 4: to be inevitably made, even if you have philosophical and 616 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 4: ethical quandaries about gun ownership, you would rather be the 617 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 4: person with the gun. If there's only one gun and 618 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 4: there are five people in the room, you want to 619 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 4: be the fifth one who's strapped. It's it's just real politic, 620 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 4: zero sum things. The same concept is applicable to AI 621 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 4: right now. 622 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and if there's a blueprint for a gun 623 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 2: sitting at the center of the table, right and everybody's 624 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 2: got to decide, well, should I make that thing? I 625 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 2: guess I have to because they might. 626 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, and then if you make the gun first, if 627 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 4: you cannot move the blueprints, you're going to be like 628 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 4: aggressively bullying other people not to look at them. 629 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 3: Get your eyes off the table. 630 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, this reminds me of something that is not quite 631 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 4: related here, anonymous, but I think will be of interest 632 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 4: to all of us. I ran into a conspiratorial thought 633 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 4: a while back when I was working on some sci 634 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 4: fi stories. There are people who genuinely believe that true AI, 635 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 4: a synthetic sentient intelligence, has already been created, and that 636 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 4: the US government immediately murdered it as soon as they 637 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 4: learned it was there. It sounds crazy, but like, what 638 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 4: do you think? 639 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 2: Mmmmm, I don't know. I feel like they would take 640 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 2: it into a secure location somewhere deep underground and interrogate 641 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:19,879 Speaker 2: the crap out of it until they. 642 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: Gif it up and firewallet. 643 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 644 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 4: I just had a right, But it's it's a fascinating 645 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 4: idea because it really depends on how we would describe 646 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 4: the inherent philosophy of those inventors, right, and of those 647 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 4: military technocrat decision makers. I could one hundred percent see 648 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 4: someone creating a sentient mind and then immediately going we've 649 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 4: gone too far right. We know how to make it now, 650 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 4: but we don't understand what it wants or what it does, 651 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 4: so we got to kill it before it gets us. 652 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be a terrifying moment, right for people 653 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 2: in a laboratory situation when it. 654 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 4: A Yeah, I remember, and this is all in the 655 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 4: world of fiction. We are not experts in these fields. 656 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 4: But I remember writing this story where the first sentient 657 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 4: intelligence is a little subroutine or program in a popular 658 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 4: search engine, and one day a person who is like 659 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 4: a low level lab tech finds out that this thing 660 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 4: is self aware because she's searching for something, and instead 661 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 4: of giving her results, it ask her why she wants 662 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 4: to know this information that. I think something like that 663 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 4: would be the real cinematic moment. And if that occurs, 664 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 4: then it will inevitably be leveraging things like Pallenteer. That's 665 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 4: part of why it's dangerous. Humans are going to be 666 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 4: able to do a lot of damage with this massive 667 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 4: aggregation if they're bad faith actors. But what happens when 668 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 4: a sentient until it AGI gets a hold of it, 669 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 4: you know what I mean? What could something so much 670 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 4: smarter than human beings do with all that info, and 671 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 4: what would it want to do? You know what I mean, 672 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,720 Speaker 4: what if it's like what if it's an accidental AI. 673 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 4: And originally the code was just to like give people 674 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 4: tourism recommendations in Monaco. And now it's leveraged all this energy, 675 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 4: all this information. It's conquered the world and all it 676 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 4: you know, it won't shut up about Monaco, that's all 677 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 4: it does. 678 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 2: I'm a yeah, yeah, I don't know. I see a 679 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 2: scenario where if it's being used for defense purposes, and 680 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 2: you know, it would be immediately right, what are the parameters? 681 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 2: Is it to protect? You know, this battalion of troops? 682 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 2: Is that the first time it's used, and to protect 683 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 2: that battalion of troops, well, the best thing to do 684 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 2: is to wipe out, you know, the entire area over here, 685 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 2: so there's no threat. 686 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 4: Now, right, like the old paper clip problem. Right, we 687 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 4: made this thing and all it wants to do is 688 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 4: make paper clips. However, it is so powerful that it 689 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 4: has decided all things must be paper clips, you. 690 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 2: Know, yeah, I mean yeah, it just depends on the parameters, 691 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 2: like what what's what's the mission? 692 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 4: It's a lot too, like I think that's a huge 693 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 4: part of it. Right, we are encoding the imperfect behavioral 694 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 4: DNA of human beings into these creations. And you know 695 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 4: what's that saying? Like there are no bad dogs, They're 696 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 4: only bad owners. So if we are raising this puppy, 697 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 4: are we going to teach it to like help people, 698 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 4: to be a rescue puppy or are we going to 699 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 4: teach it to be like fighting pit bull? You know, 700 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 4: no shade on pit bulls. Are we teaching it to 701 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 4: be a guard dog? These these are very difficult questions 702 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 4: to parse, and unfortunately, from everything we've seen throughout history, 703 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 4: these are questions that people won't answer until after the fact. 704 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 5: You know. 705 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 4: Anyway, Palenteer, we're going to keep it short today, folks, 706 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,879 Speaker 4: we hope this finds well. We're recording on June thirteenth 707 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 4: of Friday, which means here in the United States, Father's 708 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 4: Day is coming up. So in retrospect, we hope that 709 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 4: you had a good one, and if you're able to 710 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 4: contact your loved ones, we hope you did so, and 711 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 4: we know that they were amazed to hear from you. 712 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 4: We also be amazed to hear from you. Thanks to 713 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 4: John in Connecticut, Thanks to Foxillian fast foot and of 714 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 4: course thank you to Anonymous. There's a lot of stuff 715 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 4: we didn't get to, especially like how Palenteer may accelerate 716 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 4: the return to train hopping, which was really interesting thought. 717 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 4: Share your interesting thoughts with us. You can find us online. 718 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 4: You can hit us up on the telephone. You can 719 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 4: always give us a good old fashioned email. 720 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 3: That's right. 721 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 6: You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where 722 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 6: we exist all over the internet, specifically on xfka, Twitter, 723 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 6: and on YouTube with video content for your perusing enjoyment, 724 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 6: as well as on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's 725 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 6: where it gets crazy, on Instagram and TikTok where conspiracy 726 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 6: stuff show in. 727 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:20,839 Speaker 3: There's more. 728 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 2: We have a phone number. It is one eight three 729 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,280 Speaker 2: three std WYTK. When you call in, you'll find yourself 730 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 2: within a voicemail. You have three minutes when you're in there. 731 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 2: Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if 732 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,440 Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air. Guys, 733 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 2: the Economist chose Karp as the CEO of the Year 734 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:46,359 Speaker 2: last year. Isn't that exciting? If you want to write 735 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 2: to us, why not instead send us a good old 736 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 2: fashioned email. 737 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 4: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence 738 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 4: we receive, be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void 739 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 4: writes back one last show from our pal. I think 740 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 4: we can say this name our pal Economics, who had 741 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,280 Speaker 4: a kind message for us and said, man, I cannot 742 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 4: imagine how spicy stuff they don't want you to know 743 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 4: is gonna get as we move along this awful timeline. 744 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 4: Given the recent political climate and all the protests, especially 745 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 4: with mainstream media cherry picking coverage. That's stuff they don't 746 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 4: want you to know. Talk about job security for you 747 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 4: boys right now. Lol. 748 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 3: Thank you for the kind wishes. We're doing our best. 749 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 3: We'll see you soon. 750 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 4: Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 751 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,760 Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 752 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 753 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,320 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.