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Speaker 1: Where Were You In ninety two is a production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. A special note this episode features themes

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Speaker 1: of sexual assault and may not be suitable for all listeners.

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Speaker 1: The idea of being this like fierce, intelligent, open, vulnerable

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Speaker 1: person who is also like so fierce with her sexuality

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Speaker 1: and just being like whatever she wanted kind of blew

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Speaker 1: my mind wide, wide open. Welcome to Where Are You In?

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Speaker 1: A podcast in which I your host Jason Laufier, look

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Speaker 1: back at the major hits, one hit wonders, shocking news stories,

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Speaker 1: and irresistible scandals that shaped what might be the wildest,

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Speaker 1: most eclectic, most controversial twelve months of music effort. This week,

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Speaker 1: with her groundbreaking debut album, Little Earthquakes, Tori Amos ripped

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Speaker 1: the music world apart, mining her pain, her history, her fears,

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Speaker 1: her fantasies, and her path to salvation. The singer songwriter

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Speaker 1: reached deep into her core to craft a record this

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Speaker 1: sounded like nothing else before it. It's most poignant and

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Speaker 1: painful track was Me and a Gun, a song about

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Speaker 1: her sexual assault. Long before the Me Too movement, Amos

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Speaker 1: was a hero and crusader who spoke truth to power,

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Speaker 1: not only with her music, but with her work is

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Speaker 1: the first spokesperson for RAIN, the Rape, Abuse and INSUSTS

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Speaker 1: National Network, the largest nonprofit ani sexual assault organization in

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Speaker 1: the US. In this episode, we explore one of the

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Speaker 1: most gut wrenching, soul bearing innovative releases of the nineties

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Speaker 1: and the uphill battle Aimos face to get it made.

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Speaker 1: Sitting down in the I Heart studio, the musician reveals

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Speaker 1: the story and process behind Little Earthquakes in her own words,

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Speaker 1: reflecting on the legacy of the thirty year old touchstone

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Speaker 1: that ignited her career and literally saved lives. Certain records

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Speaker 1: leave their mark on you in ways you'll never fully comprehend.

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Speaker 1: They pull you from the mere, take you in their arms,

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Speaker 1: and whisk you away to another world. A world that

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Speaker 1: feels safer, a world where you're understood, where you find

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Speaker 1: the you you long to be. They're real you. These

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Speaker 1: albums hold up a mirror. They show you the truth,

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Speaker 1: which yes, can be painful, brutal even, but that truth

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Speaker 1: emboldens you, That truth sets you free. Torri mus debut

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Speaker 1: Little Earthquakes was one of those albums For me. I

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Speaker 1: discovered it years after its release. I was a troubled lonely,

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Speaker 1: bullied teenager. Most of the everyday connections I was establishing

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Speaker 1: felt tenuous and fleeting because I wasn't sure how to

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Speaker 1: be myself. I felt like I was acting portraying someone

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Speaker 1: I thought. People wanted me to be the smart one,

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Speaker 1: the funny one, the talented one, the pious one, perfect

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Speaker 1: But I was still a target ridicule. I was an anxious,

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Speaker 1: sexually confused drama geek, trying to distract my audience from

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Speaker 1: the secret behind the curtain. My parents marriage was imploding.

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Speaker 1: My father, a recovering alcoholic, had lost his job, fallen

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Speaker 1: off the wagon, and was having an affair. He and

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Speaker 1: my mother were waking me up every night with her

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Speaker 1: screaming matches. He was crashing cars and getting arrested. I

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Speaker 1: was getting straight a's and hating him for shattering the

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Speaker 1: illusion of perfection I was fighting to maintain, to save

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Speaker 1: me from the mayhem and the violence. My mother sent

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Speaker 1: me away to live with my Baptist minister and his wife,

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Speaker 1: somewhere closer to God. I had already started turning to

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Speaker 1: music for escape, but at that time one of my

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Speaker 1: few close friends was falling in love litori Amus, devouring

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Speaker 1: her discography, breathing in her angst and blowing out smoke,

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Speaker 1: rings of confidence, radiating a badass, cooler than now attitude.

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Speaker 1: I admired. I hitched a ride with her on that journey,

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Speaker 1: buying a copy of Little Earthquake. Because I awkwardly settled

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Speaker 1: into my fake bedroom with my new fake parents and

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Speaker 1: the parsonage beside our church. I had no idea what

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Speaker 1: I was in for, no idea how much the music

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Speaker 1: would speak to me. Me a wounded and furious queer

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Speaker 1: teenager who had somehow found himself shipped off to some

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Speaker 1: stranger's home where religion was a centerpiece, while my religion

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Speaker 1: was the beauty and trauma seeping from my headphones. But

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Speaker 1: enough about me, let's talk about Torri. Tori Imus was

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Speaker 1: a prodigy, drawn to the piano as soon as she

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Speaker 1: could talk, she was playing it too, and writing her

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Speaker 1: own songs. At three, she was admitted to the prestigious

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Speaker 1: Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore at just five years old, becoming

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Speaker 1: the youngest musician ever to be accepted to the school.

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Speaker 1: She studied classical, but it wasn't her bag and she

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Speaker 1: hated sight reading. Instead, in her free time, she immersed

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Speaker 1: herself in a very different kind of music, the guitar

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Speaker 1: rock of acts like led Zeppelin. She had a very

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Speaker 1: religious upbringing, Amos has said her methodist past her father

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Speaker 1: thought music would save her from boys, when in fact

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Speaker 1: she wound up connecting to rock music at a sexual

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Speaker 1: and spiritual level. Legends like Zeppelin frontman Robert Plant enthralled

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Speaker 1: and seduced her. As she writes Centauriums piece by piece,

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Speaker 1: her two thousand five book with music journalists and critic

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Speaker 1: and powers, quote, they were conjoined with their instruments. You

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Speaker 1: could not divide them, and you couldn't invade them either,

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Speaker 1: unlike the way the church and its ideas and invaded

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Speaker 1: my consciousness. She was looking for, as she puts it,

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Speaker 1: quote unquote, sensuality without the subservience. She wanted the profane

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Speaker 1: to become sacred. Like so many sutting rock stars, Amos

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Speaker 1: was rebellious and impudent, and for that she was booted

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Speaker 1: from the conservatory at the age of eleven. As you

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Speaker 1: can imagine, her parents were gutted, knowing her talent was

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Speaker 1: too exceptional to go to waste. Her father nudged her

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Speaker 1: out of the nest a couple of months before she

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Speaker 1: turned fourteen, the Reverend Dr Edison McKinley Amos drove her

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Speaker 1: to Georgetown to find her a gig performing. As she

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Speaker 1: writes in her two thousand twenty book Resistance, he had

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Speaker 1: quote more than a dose of mam arose in him,

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Speaker 1: referring to the memorable definitive stage mom in the musical Gypsy.

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Speaker 1: He became tories detager. She recalls the sermon he gave

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Speaker 1: her on the way to Georgetown, in which he said

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Speaker 1: something to the effect of, quote the way I see it,

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Speaker 1: you are drowning in your own self destructive mediocrity. You

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Speaker 1: have spent three years of ignoring your potential. Her father's

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Speaker 1: clerical collar on full display. The two hit up several

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Speaker 1: restaurants and bars, but no dice. Finally, they ended up

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Speaker 1: at a gay bar called Mr. Henry's, where the manager

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Speaker 1: agreed to take a chance on Amos. Sitting at the

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Speaker 1: bars upright piano. She took request, vowing to learn songs

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Speaker 1: she didn't know if she was invited to come back

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Speaker 1: to play. She was invited back the following Friday. Reverend

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Speaker 1: Amos was undeterred when churchgoers expressed concern that he and

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Speaker 1: his daughter were now affiliated with an establishment frequented by homosexuals.

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Speaker 1: In fact, his reply couldn't have been more astute, there

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Speaker 1: is no safer place for a thirteen year old girl

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Speaker 1: than in an all gay bar. As the years passed,

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Speaker 1: Amos would play for tony or establishments and for more

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Speaker 1: money in conservative patrons. She found herself in a hotel

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Speaker 1: bar near the White House, breathing in the cigar or

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Speaker 1: smoke of bankers, politicians, lobbyists, intellectuals, and corporate big wigs,

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Speaker 1: and receding into the background. She remained loyal to religion,

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Speaker 1: attending Sunday services until the age of one. That's when

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Speaker 1: she decided she needed to get out from under her

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Speaker 1: father's watchful eye. She moved to Los Angeles, where by chance,

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Speaker 1: she ended up living behind a Methodist church. She met

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Speaker 1: other artists, folks who like her, were looking to shut

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Speaker 1: the shackles of their past and forge their own path.

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Speaker 1: Her path, or so she thought at the time, was

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Speaker 1: a pursuit of a rock career. In the mid eighties,

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Speaker 1: the piano wasn't seen as cool at all, especially if

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Speaker 1: a woman was playing it. Yes, Amos apparently beat out

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Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker for Kellogg's Just Right commercial, in which

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Speaker 1: she plays a Cereal box piano. You know that was Cereal.

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Speaker 1: Amos Is demos, which heavily featured the piano, were met

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Speaker 1: with disdain. As she writes in Piece by Piece, the

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Speaker 1: producers and A and our guys would listen and reply,

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Speaker 1: nobody wants this. The piano girl thing is dead. If

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Speaker 1: she wanted to get out of the bar circuit, she'd

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Speaker 1: have to ditch the instrument she had been conjoined with

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Speaker 1: for twenty years. Rock music and very Big Hair seems

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Speaker 1: like her only option, So in she formed the band

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Speaker 1: Why Can't Tori Read? Its name a nod to her

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Speaker 1: struggles reading music while studying a Peabody. Fun fact the

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Speaker 1: band's drummer was Matt Sorum would eventually play with Guns

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Speaker 1: and Roses. Atlantic Records put out the group's self titled

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Speaker 1: debut album. Sales report reviews were no better. Watch the

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Speaker 1: video for Why Can't Tori Read's first single, The Big Picture,

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Speaker 1: and you'll see traces of the dynamic performer and vocalist

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Speaker 1: Amos would become. She even plays a little piano in it,

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Speaker 1: but she's drowning in excess, stifled by overproduction. Decked out

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Speaker 1: in skin type black pants and a billowy sleeved top,

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Speaker 1: she prances around like a new wave pirate on a

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Speaker 1: sound stage made to resemble an l a back alley,

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Speaker 1: bearing her middrift and brandishing a ridiculous samurais or teased

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Speaker 1: and towering her signature bright red hair had never been

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Speaker 1: closer to God. The response to the Big Picture was

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Speaker 1: so tepid the label refused to grant the group funds

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Speaker 1: for another video, a shame since her second single, cool

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Speaker 1: on Your Island, while still very much a product of

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Speaker 1: his Time, is actually a really lovely, tropical flavored pop song.

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Speaker 1: Why can't Tori Read? The album tanked it's cover, which

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Speaker 1: featured Amos and long black gloves and a black boostier

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Speaker 1: rocking that same frizzy do and wielding that same random

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Speaker 1: mass samurai sword, couldn't have helped. A Billboard review noted

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Speaker 1: that Amos was a gifted artist, but concluded, quote, unfortunately

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Speaker 1: provocative packaging sends the inaccurate message that this is just

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Speaker 1: so much more bimbo music. Why can't Tori read? Whose

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Speaker 1: original lineup had disbanded even before the album was complete,

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Speaker 1: with session players filling in for its recording officially broke up.

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Speaker 1: Amos was angry, mortified, and crust fallen. When she and

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Speaker 1: I spoke recently, she recalled feeling like she'd hit a

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Speaker 1: musical rock bottom. The worst thing that I could ever

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Speaker 1: imagine in music was to put out a record and

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Speaker 1: be laughed at, be ridiculed. And and the thing in

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Speaker 1: l a that you really don't want to catch is failure.

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Speaker 1: You will not be going to any parties if you

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Speaker 1: have failed. And I remember walking into a little restaurant

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Speaker 1: that I always walked into, and these people were in

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Speaker 1: the music business, and as I passed by, they laughed,

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Speaker 1: they laughed at me. You know, it was it was

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Speaker 1: a fleeting moment because nobody cared. Failure gets brushed under

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Speaker 1: the rug and you get swept out, you know, with

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Speaker 1: the garbage. Amos had abandoned her true love, the piano,

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Speaker 1: to try to emulate the guitar rocks she idolized as

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Speaker 1: a kid. She'd sacrificed her integrity and sold herself to

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Speaker 1: market demands and trend chasing record execs. Now she felt

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Speaker 1: like she not only looked like the bimbo billboard had

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Speaker 1: culled her, but that she was that bimbo. I followed, uh,

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Speaker 1: what people were saying at the time, which has embraced

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Speaker 1: the synthesizer and and embraced this other type of sound.

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Speaker 1: And you know the piano's history that to leave it

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Speaker 1: back in the seventies. So in my dark night of

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Speaker 1: the soul after that album bombed, I crawled back to

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Speaker 1: the piano and realized that I had to find out

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Speaker 1: who I was. Within a few days of reading that

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Speaker 1: withering review, she ditched the makeup, hairsprained tight pants. She

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Speaker 1: rented a piano because she couldn't afford to buy one,

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Speaker 1: and vowed to never leave it betray it. She says again,

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Speaker 1: I've warned so many masks to try and get out

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Speaker 1: of the barroom that, um, I didn't know who I

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Speaker 1: was anymore. So the piano had to take me back

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Speaker 1: to when I was five years old studying at the

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Speaker 1: Peabody Conservatory and and take me back to a magical

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Speaker 1: time when when music was magic, and I had completely

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Speaker 1: burned that to the ground. To recapture the tori Amos

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Speaker 1: she thought she was destined to be, she began working

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Speaker 1: on demos for a solo album what would eventually become

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Speaker 1: Little Earthquakes. For four years, she played and she wrote,

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Speaker 1: working with producers Eric Ross and David Siggerson on a

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Speaker 1: batch of piano driven songs and adding some quote unquote

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Speaker 1: sonic sweetening. As Amost puts it, she was dressing the

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Speaker 1: way she wanted to, thank lots of Patagonia and finally

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Speaker 1: making the music she wanted to make. No barroom covers,

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Speaker 1: no glossy cock rock. She was proud of what she'd done.

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Speaker 1: It felt honest. Though why can't Tori read? It? Flopped?

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Speaker 1: Atlantic Records kept Amos's contract. The label was eagerly awaiting

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Speaker 1: her next effort, but the guys on top were unimpressed

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Speaker 1: when she submitted a batch of piano based tracks. They

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Speaker 1: didn't get it and thought it had no place in

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Speaker 1: the musical landscape and their minds. The girl and a

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Speaker 1: piano thing was still that on arrival at the time.

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Speaker 1: The piano was not cool. So Elton and Billy it was.

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Speaker 1: They were still touring the world and they were, you know,

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Speaker 1: these legends where it was um embraced and accepted because

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Speaker 1: of their track record. They've been around a long long time.

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Speaker 1: But really, uh, what was happening in the music scene

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Speaker 1: was women like Tracy Chapman and Susanne Vega. The guitar

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Speaker 1: um was being embraced, which is great, but the piano

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Speaker 1: was seen as some kind of well, let's put it

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Speaker 1: this way, part of the Seattle sound. Not It wasn't considered, Oh,

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Speaker 1: this could stand next to grunge and be badass for

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Speaker 1: this album to move forward, the men at the top

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Speaker 1: said the piano had to go, but Amos couldn't bear

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Speaker 1: the thought of that. She was freaking out, scrambling to

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Speaker 1: find a solution. When we turned in the record then

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Speaker 1: it was it was not accepted. So the suggestion was

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Speaker 1: from a producer to the head of Atlantic at the time,

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Speaker 1: I was Doug Morris. The suggestion was take all the

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Speaker 1: pianos off and put guitars on, and Doug and I

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Speaker 1: were able to come to a different outcome, which was

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Speaker 1: I would turn in a few more produced tracks, and

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Speaker 1: so I turned to Eric Ross and musicians that I

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Speaker 1: knew in l a Friends to come and collaborate, and

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Speaker 1: then that was the next stage. Up next after the break,

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Speaker 1: we look at how twenty six year old torre Amus

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Speaker 1: rebounded from another rejection to create a landmark album that

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Speaker 1: would eventually have a seismic impact on pop music the

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Speaker 1: year was. Though her label had essentially told Torre Amos

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Speaker 1: to ditch all her pianos for guitars to save her

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Speaker 1: first solo album, she was determined to get it made

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Speaker 1: without sacrificing her vision. She knew she couldn't defy the

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Speaker 1: powers that be, so she decided to write four more

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Speaker 1: tracks to prove her viability. The label agreed to let her.

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Speaker 1: The first of those four songs was Girl, attract she

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Speaker 1: wrote after she left l A and flew back to

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Speaker 1: d C. To see her parents. They drove out to

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Speaker 1: an old farm in the mountains of Virginia where her

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Speaker 1: father had grown up. She was surrounded by calm, far

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Speaker 1: away from the din of the big city. She took

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Speaker 1: long walks with her mother, who made dinners from their garden.

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Speaker 1: One night, while her mother was rocking in a rocking chair,

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Speaker 1: Amos sat at the upright piano and wrote Girl, the

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Speaker 1: track that would bridge the gap between the earlier rejected

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Speaker 1: songs of her debut solo album and what would eventually

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Speaker 1: become its final version. Yes, the song would feature guitars,

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Speaker 1: but the piano was its backbone, and Girl was about

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Speaker 1: Amos finding her backbone. So girl was documenting what I

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Speaker 1: was going through in my battle at that time, Girl

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Speaker 1: reflecting what I was living at the time, which was

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Speaker 1: she's been everybody else's girl. Maybe one day she'll be

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Speaker 1: her own. And it's like, yes, yes, t a it,

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Speaker 1: come on, You've you've got to stop being um such

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Speaker 1: a sponge and just saying Okay, I'll twist myself and

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Speaker 1: turn myself into whatever you want just because you want

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Speaker 1: to leave the bar room. What if you never leave

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Speaker 1: the bar room, you need to go there, because if

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Speaker 1: you can accept that, then you will write what you

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Speaker 1: need to write for your soul. The match was lit.

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Speaker 1: Amos had found her spark. She proceeded to write the

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Speaker 1: tracks Precious Things, Tear in Your Hand, and Little Earthquakes,

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Speaker 1: all of which and to both piano and guitars at

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Speaker 1: the label felt the girl and the piano thing was dead.

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Speaker 1: Amos proved she and her music were very much alive. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: label had Doug Morris had returned to one of the

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Speaker 1: original rejected tracks. Amos had submitted a piano and string

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Speaker 1: led song called Silent. All these years he had listened

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Speaker 1: to it going home in his car. One night and

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Speaker 1: he got it. The penny dropped and he said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I realized this, this was one of the original twelve,

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Speaker 1: but I get it. I get it now, and I

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Speaker 1: think you need to go to England and I went,

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Speaker 1: pardon what what? He said, Yes, I have a counterpart

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Speaker 1: over there called Max Hole East West Records in London,

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Speaker 1: and he will get it. He will understand and his

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Speaker 1: team will understand what to do with this, and that

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Speaker 1: was the next phase of the journey. Amos flew to

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Speaker 1: England and recorded a handful of B sides and the

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Speaker 1: last two of the twelve tracks that to a a peer

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Speaker 1: on Little Earthquakes, China and Me and a Gun. She

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00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 1: handed over the new guitar least songs, along with six

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Speaker 1: of the original piano lead songs she presented. The label

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00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 1: accepted the retooled material. It would release Amos's first solo

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Speaker 1: album in January. One of Little Earthquake's most beloved songs,

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Speaker 1: Silent all these years has become Amos is calling card

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00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: like Girl. It's about losing and finding one's voice, a

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Speaker 1: story Amos knew all too well after why Can't Tory

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Speaker 1: Read bombed and she rekindled her love with the piano.

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Speaker 1: Amos was inspired to write it after reading Hans Christian

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Speaker 1: Anderson's The Little Mermaid with her young niece Cody, and

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00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 1: the classic fairy tale the titular heroine loses her voice.

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Speaker 1: As Amos said in a two thousand nine Rolling Stone interview,

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Speaker 1: watching Cody respond to this young woman giving up her

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Speaker 1: essence and power all for something else and that more men,

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Speaker 1: I realized that when she had no voice, that just

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Speaker 1: completely took me to the place where I needed to

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Speaker 1: go to reclaim it. Amos has said Silence all these

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Speaker 1: years is one of the most important songs in her

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Speaker 1: thirty year repertoire. As she writes in Resistance, she was

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Speaker 1: the life support that helped me survive a severe personal

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Speaker 1: and artistic crisis. The songs that would form little Earthquakes

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Speaker 1: were the sound of Amos finding her voice taking charge

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Speaker 1: of her destiny. She writes, it was a long and

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Speaker 1: arduous climb to song write my way out of a

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Speaker 1: very personal help. Silent all these years would become much

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Speaker 1: bigger than her. It would eventually serve as a rallying

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Speaker 1: cry for women and men who had been suppressed, degraded, harassed, assaulted.

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Speaker 1: It was the Ultimate Survivor's Anthem and the fall of

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Speaker 1: just before Silent All These Years was released as a single.

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Speaker 1: In the UK, the subject of sexual harassment had begun

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Speaker 1: dominating headlines. Anita Hill had come forward accusing U. S.

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court nominee Clarence Thomas, her supervisor at the U

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Speaker 1: S Department of Education and Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, of

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Speaker 1: sexually harassing her, a black woman. She presented her case

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Speaker 1: to a Senate Judiciary committee of fourteen white men. The

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Speaker 1: world watched an awe. I found it really intriguing that

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Speaker 1: people were gravitating toward that song. Anita Hill had just

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Speaker 1: been um on television. I saw her on television and

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Speaker 1: she said something to the effect of I couldn't stay

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Speaker 1: silent any longer, something to that effect, And within two weeks,

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Speaker 1: three weeks, Silent All These Years was getting played on

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Speaker 1: the radio in England. This was volcanic what was happening

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Speaker 1: with Anita Hill. This was shocking the world and the

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Speaker 1: courage that it took for her to speak. And it

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Speaker 1: just so happened that this song, Silent to All These

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Speaker 1: Years was coming out within a couple of weeks of

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Speaker 1: this shock. So it was really relevant at the time,

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Speaker 1: and when I was writing it, you have no idea

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Speaker 1: what circumstances are going to cross the song's path, which

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00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: then becomes part of the narrative. Silent All These Years

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Speaker 1: was not Amos's first single. It was included as a

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Speaker 1: track on her first single, Me and a Gun, but

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Speaker 1: because it was the more accessible song, radio stations opted

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Speaker 1: to play it instead, so the Me and a Gun

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Speaker 1: single was rereleased soon after, entitled Silent All These Years.

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Speaker 1: It's not that surprising that DJs avoided Me and a Gun.

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Speaker 1: The song is totally acapella, just Amos detailing her sexual assault,

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Speaker 1: which occurred when she was twenty one years old and

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Speaker 1: living in Los Angeles. Certain facts were changed well. The

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Speaker 1: narrator in the song was raped at gunpoint. Her attacker

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00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: had a knife. The imagery is nonetheless chilling, harrowing. Years

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00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,719
Speaker 1: after the incident, she saw the movie Thumba and Louise,

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Speaker 1: in which a female character is nearly raped, and realized

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Speaker 1: she had to tell her story. As she recalled to

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Speaker 1: CBS News in two thousand seventeen, I think I saw

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Speaker 1: it fifteen times and then it began to come from

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Speaker 1: deep within. Amos has called the process of writing Me

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00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: and a Gun difficult and raw. The song itself is

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00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 1: difficult to listen to because it's so raw. Amos traces

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Speaker 1: the thoughts running through her head while she's being assaulted,

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00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: some horrifying, some absurd. Her account unfurls like a stream

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Speaker 1: of consciousness. She sings about Jesus, Mr Ed Carolina biscuits,

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Speaker 1: how she must survive her assault because she hasn't been

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Speaker 1: to Barbados, and I want to live, she vows at

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Speaker 1: one point, it is all so close to the bone,

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Speaker 1: you are right there with her. While playing Little Earthquakes.

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Speaker 1: Over the years, I would often skip the track. If

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Speaker 1: I didn't play it, it wasn't real, as Amos said

380
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Speaker 1: in an interview with Rolling Stone, and it was through

381
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Speaker 1: gut wrenching pain, hysteria. I think that the music began

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Speaker 1: to come in the quiet. In the silence being alone,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't speak to or be with anybody, So I

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Speaker 1: just went off to one of my secret private haunts

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Speaker 1: that you go in the world, You just leave everything

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Speaker 1: you know and go. That's what I did, And when

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Speaker 1: I came back out again, this song was walking hand

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00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: in hand with me. It became something I had to

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Speaker 1: sing to move forward. Music journalists and Powers, who collaborated

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00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: with Aimless on her book Piece by Piece, describes the

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Speaker 1: singer's place in the rock landscape as a precarious one.

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Speaker 1: Solo female artists then had to navigate a male dominated

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Speaker 1: industry and play the game while still trying to preserve

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Speaker 1: their vision. But they carried another heavy burden on their shoulders.

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Speaker 1: They were symbols, heroin's idols who were supposed to represent

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Speaker 1: their female listeners and speak to them, says Powers. At

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Speaker 1: that time, there were bands, there were some women bands

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Speaker 1: or some bands that you know, in which women and

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00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 1: men played together, But more often than not, the successful

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Speaker 1: artists were solo women or women who were perceived as solitary,

401
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: who were expected two articulate this kind of separateness, this

402
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: kind of solitude, this kind of like we're Joan of arc.

403
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: You know, I'm out here leading something, but but I'm

404
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: only listening to the voices in my head. Powers considers

405
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: me and a gun Amos his most impressive political statement

406
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: in the nineties. It's such a such an incredible, uh

407
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: brave act, but you know it's an acapella. She performs

408
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: it alone like silent. All these years, Me and a

409
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: Gun did for a strong connection with listeners. It too,

410
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: became an anthem, not for victims, but for survivors. For many,

411
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: it was the me too of its time. Amos told

412
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Speaker 1: me about a moment when she began to understand the

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00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: impact of the song and her music in general. A

414
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: young girl attending one of her shows was watching her

415
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Speaker 1: perform Me and a Gun and was deeply moved, and

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00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: she fainted during the song. Um. And after this show

417
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 1: they had taken her backstage, and she told me her story,

418
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: and she said, can I please come on the road.

419
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Speaker 1: I'll do anything. I'll do any I'll work in the

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00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: kitchens or whatever I can do. Um, because my stepfather

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00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: raped me last night, he will tomorrow night, and when

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00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: I get in tonight he will. And so I was,

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Speaker 1: of course, you're coming on the road with me and

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00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: we'll figure it out. But Amos too was young and

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00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: didn't comprehend the possible ramifications. I didn't understand what was happening.

426
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: But I saw the terror in the eyes and in

427
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: my um. Well, it's just trying to do something. You're

428
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: trying to do something. So I get a call from

429
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: legal coming into the venue saying you will be arrested

430
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: for kidnapping. You are crossing state line tonight on the buses,

431
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: and you will be arrested. And at the time, there

432
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: just wasn't um a place where I knew where to call.

433
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: Realizing her initial plan was just too risky, the singer

434
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: back down. She had to leave the girl behind. I

435
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: watched her go. I've never seen her again. I've never

436
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: heard from her again, and it plagues me to this

437
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: day because we have no idea. But this fan and

438
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: her tragic story stayed with Amos. She was inspired that

439
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: same year to become the first spokesperson for RAIN, the

440
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: Rape Abuse and Incests National Network, the largest nonprofit antisexual

441
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: assault organization in the US. It operates the National Sexual

442
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: Assault Hotline, a twenty four hour toll free phone service

443
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: that routes callers to the nearest local sexual assault service provider.

444
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: Since it was found, it has helped more than three

445
00:29:47,840 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: million survivors and their loved ones. Delicate, daring, damning, clever, funny, seductive,

446
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: and incendiary. Little Earthquakes was the sound of Torre Amos

447
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: finally finding her voice, or at least really starting to.

448
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: It's first track, Crucify, opens with lyrics that by turns

449
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: convey strength, defiance, fear, and vulnerability. Every finger in the

450
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: room is pointing at me, Amos things I want to

451
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: spit in their faces. Then I get afraid of what

452
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: that could bring. The final track, Little Earthquakes culminates with

453
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: the artists repeating what could be considered the album's thesis,

454
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: give me life, give me pain, give me myself again.

455
00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: Amos knew that the truth is scary, messy, some times

456
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: almost unbearable, but she also knew that it must be

457
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: told at all costs. On this record, nothing is off limits. Lust, heartache, religion, masochism,

458
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: the beauty of childhood, the pain of adolescence, dreams, wasted dreams, nightmares, mortality.

459
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: The singer herself admits that the guitar is a label

460
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: insistent she include did indeed lend a gravity to the proceedings,

461
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: as does its colossal percussion, which often sounds tribal or primordial,

462
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: like it's rising from the planet's core and bursting through

463
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: the surface, echoing the title of the album. Gripping, seething

464
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: and unpredictable. Sounds like Girl, Precious Things and Little Earthquakes

465
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: swell into massive, soulful neo prog rock marvels. Amos's visual collaborators,

466
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: photographer Cindy Palmano and stylists and creative director Karen Bins,

467
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: were imediately shaken by the revelations and revolution of Little Earthquakes.

468
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: Paulmano handled not only the photography for the album, but

469
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: also directed all of its music videos. For the songs Crucified, Silent.

470
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: All these years Winter and China, Palmano tapped Binns, who

471
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 1: had recently relocated from Brooklyn to London, to help her

472
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: establish strong imagery that lived up to Amos's powerful storytelling.

473
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: The work the three women did together was stark and impressionistic,

474
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: conjuring the spear of the seventies but also feeling like

475
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: it was suspended in amber. It favored simple props and

476
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: intimate close up shots of Amos that make the viewer

477
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: feel like she's speaking to them and only them. The

478
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: trio's vision was cohesive, poignant, and haunting. Binns was a

479
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: hip black arc chick who paled around with Baskia in

480
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: downtown New York in the nineteen eighties. Amos was a

481
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: Maryland gal into bell bottom jeans and led zeppelin. The

482
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: two met for an evening coffee and hit it off instantly.

483
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: Amos would get to wear her flair legged jeans, but

484
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: with Bin's pulling the strings, she pair them with a

485
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: vintage swimsuit. Amos was drawn to Ben's pluck and her

486
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: sense of adventure. Binns was drawn to Amos's honesty and

487
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: her quote unquote radical points of view. When we spoke recently,

488
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: this is how Bin's described her relationship with the singer.

489
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,479
Speaker 1: She is the woman that's going to make it happen,

490
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: that's going to save the life. Well, that's going to

491
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: come up with the answer, that's truth. You know. To

492
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: be a part of that for me was everything. That's

493
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: when I knew I was on the road with someone

494
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: to do great things. Bin's continues to serve as Amos's

495
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: stylist and creative director to this day. You might be

496
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: tempted to dismiss Bin's remarks about Tore Amos being the

497
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: woman who's going to save the life as hyperboly, But

498
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: looking back on my adolescence, when I was struggling to

499
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: make sense of my sexuality, my parents turbulent marriage, I

500
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: sure the health like she was my savior. Listening to

501
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: little Earthquakes not only felt like reading Amos's memoir, it

502
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: felt like reading mine. I was hardly alone. I discover

503
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: over the years that so many of my friends and

504
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: peers had seen their own heartbreak, confusion, and insolence in

505
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: these lyrics, heard their own pain and redemption and Amos's

506
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 1: commanding delivery. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find

507
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 1: a thirty or forty something emo artsy type today who

508
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: hasn't been affected by Amos's music. Lola van Ella is

509
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: one of those types. She's in New Orleans based burlesque

510
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: artist who has performed Little Earthquakes eighth track Leather several

511
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: times for live audiences. The song, which tackles sex, power

512
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: and religion, is a jaunty, cheeky Vaudevillian tune that sounds

513
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: like it fell off the back of the Godspell truck

514
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: and straight into Amos's lap. It pulls its listeners in

515
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: instantly with its arresting opening lines, Look, I'm standing naked

516
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: before you. Don't you want more than my sex? I

517
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: can scream as loud as your last one, but I

518
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 1: can't claim innocence. Vanilla has been a fan of Amos

519
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: since her teenage years, when she, like me and so

520
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: many others, was trying to figure her ship out and

521
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: find her place in the world, she told me recently,

522
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: So I think there was like this big explosion of

523
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: both like raging hormones and also sexual curiosity. And I

524
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: think that combined with just like all of the normal

525
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: angsty ship that kids go through, Tori was like the

526
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: most It just she just spoke to me, and I

527
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 1: really loved how out there she was. I really loved

528
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: how feral she seemed when she would play the piano.

529
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 1: I really just loved her energy. The idea of being

530
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: this like fierce, intelligent, open, vulnerable person who was also

531
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: like so fierce with her sexuality and just being like

532
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: whatever she wanted kind of blew my mind wide wide open,

533
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: as as somebody who was, you know, discovering all of

534
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 1: that for myself. Van Ella's performance of Leather is atypical

535
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: for her. First, rather than just interpret it, she actually

536
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: sings the song. Also, she doesn't do her usual rolesque

537
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 1: strip tease. There's no fancy costume, no dazzling rhinestones. Instead,

538
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: she walks onto the stage and drops her robe just

539
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: as she utters that first line, Look, I'm standing naked

540
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: before you. Depending on the venue and its restrictions, she'll

541
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: either perform the song completely nude save for a pair

542
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: of high heels, or, as she puts it, and whatever

543
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: keeps me legal. She likes to lock eyes with some

544
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: of her spectators to make them feel squeamish as she

545
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 1: gets to the refrain, if love isn't forever, and it's

546
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: not the weather ham me my mother. For her, it's

547
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: about making the audience really think about what they're staring

548
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: yet what they may or may not be complicit in

549
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 1: who has the control in the room. Then. Ella's rendition

550
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: of a leather is tantalizing, searching, fierce, unsettling, everything Amos

551
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: intended the song to be. Then, Ella says she's received

552
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: a lot of feedback from audience members about how the

553
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: performance surprised and moved them. She attributes this to the

554
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: way Amos is spry, theatrical melody is juxtaposed with his

555
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: tracks rawness and directness, how well naked it is. Leather

556
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: stands on its own as this kind of I mean,

557
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: it's just a very it's a really confrontational piece of

558
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: songwriting and and I think timeless in that way too,

559
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: Like that song will be a bot forever. You know.

560
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 1: It's just like it's just got such a quality about

561
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: it that is really um Yeah, it's a little haunting,

562
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: it's really beautiful. The haunting beauty of Little Earthquakes had

563
00:37:55,960 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: a profound effect on accountless musicians. Well, Amos never came

564
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: a top for the artist, her influence could be felt

565
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 1: throughout the nineties and beyond. A slew of female singer

566
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: songwriters had walked down the road she helped pave a lot.

567
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: It's more Set if You an Apple Jewel, Paula Cole

568
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: Imaging Heat died O, Alicia Keys, Back for Lashes, lad

569
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: Rey f K Twiggs. I hear Tory Amos all over

570
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 1: Tyler Swift's recent albums, Folklore, and evermore. These women found

571
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: power in their vulnerability. Their mission was to get as

572
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: close to the truth as possible, no matter how dramatic

573
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: or dark, or ugly or uncomfortable or terrifying it. Maybe

574
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: the truth was their weapon. As Karen Binn says of Amos,

575
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: she became an esthetic two Little Earthquakes. We started trends

576
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: through that. We started other artists wanting to portray that

577
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: and wanting to be like her. Up next after the break,

578
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: we speak with Tory Amus herself about her recent book

579
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: Resistance and the dark night of the soul that propels

580
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: her to make and remake Little Earthquakes, one of the

581
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: most significant enduring albums of the nineties. Welcome back to

582
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: Where Were You In nine two. We've been discussing torre

583
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: Amos and a groundbreaking album, Little Earthquakes. Now it's time

584
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: to hear from the woman behind it, singer, songwriter and

585
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 1: piano virtuoso Torrimus. So the first question I'm asking guests

586
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: on this show is a very simple one, but also

587
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: a very very weighted, very layered one, I think, which

588
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: is where were you mentally? Physically? I was releasing a

589
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: record called Little Earthquakes, and so I reckon I was

590
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: probably in UM, the UK, going back and forth to

591
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: the States in the UK early and ninety two, and

592
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: the record came out and I started to go on

593
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: a world tour. But it was a rocky road, of course,

594
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: it was not. It wasn't the easiest. Uh, the conception

595
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: was not easy. The release wasn't easy. Um, and you

596
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: definitely had two to fight for this record. Yeah, I

597
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 1: had to fight. I had to fight for the record,

598
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 1: And the other thing is it was a process, so

599
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: it really took about four years if I'm if I'm

600
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 1: being fair and accurate about the whole thing, and it

601
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 1: happened in stages. Me and a Gun is a pivotal track,

602
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: a touchdowne in your career, and I mean you've spoken

603
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: already about the significance of it, and now it resonated

604
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: with people. And UM, take me to that moment when

605
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: you knew you had to write that song, where you

606
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 1: had to include it on the record, when the music

607
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: spoke to you insaide, Tori, this is maybe arrist this

608
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: is maybe going to be the most challenging moment of

609
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: your career, but we got to do this. Yes, Uh,

610
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: there are moments when you're guided and I was guided

611
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: to do this acapella, um. And there's a level of

612
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:58,760
Speaker 1: trust that you have with the muses in the moment,

613
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: because my goodness, when you're creating and talking about some

614
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 1: of the harrowing things, um, which some of the songs

615
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 1: over the years cover cover difficult, you know, the skin

616
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,760
Speaker 1: is off. We're on zipping getting to those deep emotions

617
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: that people have been harboring their whole lives and you're

618
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: and you're going into the wound, and how you go

619
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: into that wound and then how you hopefully the song

620
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: walks with someone through their dark night. You know that

621
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: that is what the muses um do and and so

622
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: being part of that there's a huge responsibility because you're thinking,

623
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: if I get this wrong, if I get this wrong,

624
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: if I tell this story wrong, then what I don't

625
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: want to do harm. I don't want to take somebody

626
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 1: to a place and get them shattered. You want to

627
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: take them to a place of recognition of Okay, this

628
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: might have happened to him, to her, to them, and

629
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 1: then they foind they find something empowering by it. Now,

630
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: maybe there's a long journey that has to happen from

631
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: victim to survivor maybe there's a lot of work that

632
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 1: will have to be done, but the first step is

633
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: always acknowledging and and not running away. You know from

634
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:38,479
Speaker 1: from those um tragic moments that that that sometimes people

635
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: want to block out. So working with Rain all these

636
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: years has really taught me, taught me a lot. And

637
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: the people that are on that front line every day, um, wow,

638
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: what a commitment that they have. But it all started

639
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 1: by a song. That then people UM people embraced and

640
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: then told their story to me. I've always been, you know,

641
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: interested in why you decided to do it acapella and

642
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: if you were met with not to go back to

643
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: this word again, but resistance from from the label because

644
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,959
Speaker 1: not only did this song not have guitars, it didn't

645
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: even have pianos, it had nothing. It was the most

646
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: it was the rawst thing imaginable. Well, there was a

647
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 1: faction at the label that didn't want this song on

648
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: and and said, this is you. This is really disturbing.

649
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: I'm disturbed by this. And I said, if you were

650
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: not disturbed by this, then that would be scary. You

651
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: need to be disturbed. Sometimes music wants to be disturbing.

652
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: That's what it is. So let's not resist that, let's

653
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: embrace that. But I had to really again, I had

654
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: to put up a resistance of capitulating. I had to

655
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: be strong. I had to stand by UM the songs,

656
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: and and also I had to listen to some of

657
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 1: the improvements that the team wanted me to make, because

658
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 1: you know, we're back to babies in bathwater, just throwing

659
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: everything out just to dig your heels and that's not

660
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 1: very clever, so sometimes taking on board somebody's comment, some

661
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: someone's critique of something so that we can improve it.

662
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: And that was a huge learning curve as a creator.

663
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: When do you have a think tank where you can

664
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: agree with some things and then you thinking, well, not

665
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: so fast. I think we're having a knee jerk reaction

666
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: and we need to be bold and brave and stand

667
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: by the acapella track and it stays on. And you

668
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: made you made concessions, yes, after you went back and

669
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 1: you said, okay, I'm not going to give you one song,

670
00:45:54,960 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: my guitarist, and I'm leaving four, including Girl, including Precious

671
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: Things for anyone who thinks who's not as familiar with

672
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: your music, which that's criminal, but victoriums cannot rock. You've

673
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: never heard Precious Things because hearing that is revelatory. The

674
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: drums alone are massive, and then the bridge is just explosive.

675
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: And also you use these voices throughout the record, and

676
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,280
Speaker 1: you use them and Precious Things, and you use them

677
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: in and Girl, and they almost it's a male voice,

678
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: and it almost sounds demonic. It sounds dark. And I've

679
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: always you know, I've always wondered it really stood out

680
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: to me when I discovered this record and fell in

681
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: love with it because I had never really heard anything

682
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: like it. Can you tell me a little bit about that,

683
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 1: about those almost so things like precious things of voices.

684
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: I was going through, Um, you know, I was crossing

685
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: the river sticks, I was going to meet Persephone. I

686
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: was in hades because I had failed. But through the

687
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 1: failure and being on your knees and being in the muck,

688
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: which has happened at different times in my life. Not

689
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,919
Speaker 1: all records come from there, but a few have, um

690
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: this one, Scarlet's Walk and Ocean to Ocean. They've come

691
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: from a place of deep despondency and and deep heartache

692
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: because you know, I'd lost myself. But the truth is

693
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: I had lost myself a long time before that, Jason.

694
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 1: I started losing myself when I started chasing it, and

695
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: when I started chasing it in my early twenties and

696
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: just saying well, I've got to get out of the barroom,

697
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,280
Speaker 1: so I'll do anything to get out. I'll I'll write

698
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: any song I need to write, and so you know,

699
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: talk about the fame whore, the fame hore archetype. Um

700
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: just took over my brain and my my pen and

701
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: my piano, and I allowed her to do that. I

702
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 1: allowed her to do that. And so these songs and

703
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: these voices that you talk about, there's a there's a conjuring,

704
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: and there's a there's a narrative that I was trying

705
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: to tell sonically, I was trying to explain the level

706
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: of emotions that were happening at the time. It to me,

707
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: has always felt like this internal tug of war with

708
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: you and your past, with you and what people want

709
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: you to be versus what you want to be. Their

710
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: voice versus your voice. They're dragging you down. You're looking

711
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: for uplift. I'm dragging me down. So they're actually you,

712
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: you would say, those voices are or maybe maybe maybe

713
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: they were your Yes, my saboteur, absolutely spot on. I

714
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: have to take responsibility for listening to opinions, to chasing it.

715
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,959
Speaker 1: And I'm sure any artist that's listening right now that

716
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: has has thought, Okay, you know, this is a hard slog.

717
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: When you get rejection after rejection after rejection after rejection.

718
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: We're talking years and years and years and years and

719
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: years and years. Then you go, okay, maybe I'm on

720
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: the Maybe this um singer songwriter talking about my emotions.

721
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm on the wrong path, Maybe I need to

722
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: right in another way. So then you start listening to

723
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: what people and the labels are signing and what they

724
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: want to be, and all of a sudden you think, Okay,

725
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 1: well maybe I can do that. But just because you

726
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: can do it, because you have the musicality, doesn't mean

727
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: anybody's going to believe you, because it's disingenuous, because it's

728
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: a lie. Now, I think some people can create a

729
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: character and step into that character and it works and

730
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: they have the facility to make that happen. But that

731
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 1: was not working for me. So this was this was Yeah,

732
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: this was much you really wanted to. Like you said,

733
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: you wanted to rekindle your relationship with the piano, and

734
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: you wanted this to be your your record. You came

735
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:44,240
Speaker 1: back with Girl, Precious Things. What were the other two tracks?

736
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, you're testing me now, I'm trying to

737
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: was a little Earthquakes one because earthquakes and tear in

738
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 1: your Hands here in your Head, which also has guitars. Yes, um, oh,

739
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 1: wonderful tracks. I can't imagine that record not having those tracks.

740
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: Looking back, do you think, my god, I'm so happy

741
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: they made it onto the record. I don't know what

742
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: it would be without or do you absolutely, Jason, because

743
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: without them and and Me and a Gun wasn't on

744
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: the original record that came later, Okay, So that was

745
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: something else you submitted after the guitar the guitars. You

746
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 1: gave them that, so you can probably you know, were

747
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: you thinking, I'm gonna give them this so that I

748
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: get a win later m h. When I was in England,

749
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: I wrote men a Gun after I turned in these

750
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: four and we recorded a song called China. So um

751
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: what had been the original twelve songs. Those songs became

752
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: B sides, the ones that were moved aside for the

753
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: four and then China and men a Gun. So yes,

754
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: it's a completely different record. So if Doug had gotten

755
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: it from the beginning, it wouldn't be what it is.

756
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: So that's where sometimes you have to kind of go

757
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: through the process. In the battle and out of the battle. Um,

758
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: I hung onto the pianos, but we got seven tracks

759
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: that because of his perception, um that we wouldn't have had.

760
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: So you know, that's where the magic of a relationship

761
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: can create something good. What do you think of the

762
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: current state of affairs with women in the music industry.

763
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 1: Do you think it has gotten easier harder? Do you

764
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: think there are new battles to fight? I think the

765
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: words easier and harder a tricky words because I don't

766
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 1: want to dilute it down to either one. There are

767
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: challenges always to stand by your art, and let's face it,

768
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: there there are some artists that have a tougher trek

769
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:58,760
Speaker 1: up the mountain than others. Some doors open for whatever reason.

770
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 1: It might be the people that they're working with. I'm

771
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: not saying that they're not great, but there are some

772
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: artists out there that I know of who who have

773
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: really um sometimes had to do serious battle. And so

774
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 1: I think when you asked me about female artists today,

775
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: of course they have challenges. We had challenges. Then what

776
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: is true. What is absolutely affect though, is that you

777
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,720
Speaker 1: have a big microphone that can get direct to the fans,

778
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:39,359
Speaker 1: so that it's it's more difficult for somebody to gaslights

779
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: somebody or go somebody. That's how this happened a lot

780
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: adjacent in the nineties, where you don't have to sell

781
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: an artist to another label. If you've signed seven records

782
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,919
Speaker 1: with an option on an eight album, that's sixteen years

783
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 1: of your life. And that's if you're really prolific and fast.

784
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:03,240
Speaker 1: So in sixteen, you know, sixteen years or even twenty years,

785
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: that's a lot of records. That's a lot of time.

786
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 1: And what's some what a label can do is make

787
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: sure your value on the street plummets. So if there

788
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: is some kind of what do you call it persecution

789
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 1: going on, or if there's some kind of punishment situation,

790
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 1: because it's who do you think you are as an

791
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: artist standing up to a great CEO? And this happened,

792
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 1: um mentioning no names, but people would be shelved, so

793
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: they wouldn't be sold and and um, their their record

794
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: would just be shelved. And unless they had a really

795
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: good attorney, really good lawyer which costs a lot of

796
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: money to move that, then that's just a tragic story

797
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: that would happen. But now with social media, an artist

798
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: has the ability to share with the public because the public,

799
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: I don't think knows what happens behind the curR. They

800
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,879
Speaker 1: certainly didn't know in the nineties. If you could say

801
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: to someone who had not has not listened to little

802
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: earthquakes yatt which again criminal. Uh, well, going into this

803
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: record telling this person what to expect and what you

804
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: think it's legacy is what would you say, Tori? Well?

805
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 1: I I guess the point of Little Earthquakes is encouraging

806
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 1: people to be their own person. And sometimes you don't

807
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: know exactly who you are, and that's okay, you know,

808
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 1: the given that everybody knows who they are, some people do.

809
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: Some people have tapped into that and accepted that. But

810
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: some of us had to try different pieces on pieces

811
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: of ourselves, and then you make this mosaic. You take

812
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: the pieces and then you find the whole. Sometimes some

813
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: of us are bits of stained glass, right that that

814
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: then make a different picture once you stand back from it.

815
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: Not everybody is a solid, you know, art walking piece

816
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: of art. Some of us came in pieces and that's okay,

817
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 1: And that's what I think Little Earthquakes helped me to find.

818
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: To work on this episode, I had to look back

819
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: at some pieces of myself I frankly wish to forget,

820
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: pieces from a distant past. When it came time to

821
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 1: press play and revisit Little Earthquakes, I realized I hadn't

822
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 1: listened to the album from start to finish. In years.

823
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: It was just too painful. I took a deep breath,

824
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: bracing myself for the memories that become flooding back. By

825
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: the time I reached the end of it, I felt

826
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: the same catharsis I had the first time I'd heard it,

827
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: the tenth time, the hundredth of time, the five time

828
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,760
Speaker 1: I felt with a sadness I had as a lonely

829
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 1: broken teenager. But I also felt so much more powerful,

830
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: aware of how far had come, grateful, stronger. Until very recently,

831
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 1: I hadn't been back to my hometown in years. My

832
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 1: parents moved away after I graduated high school. My father died,

833
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: my mother met someone else, and moved to the country.

834
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: In a strange twist of fate, while working on this episode,

835
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: I found myself returning to that hometown for a funeral.

836
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: My dear friend from high school, the one who had

837
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 1: helped introduced me to the glory of Tory, had lost

838
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: her dad. To pay my respects and support her in

839
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: her family, I had to book a flight and go

840
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: face my past all those ghosts. Two days after the funeral,

841
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: after having nervously set foot in that place I used

842
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: to call home, I was sitting in my mom's rocking

843
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: chair on her front porch. Starting to write this script,

844
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: I again felt that adolescent sadness and the newer sadness

845
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 1: and adult sadness, sadness over lives, changing, sadness over death,

846
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Speaker 1: sadness over the passing of time. But I also felt proud, serene, comfortable,

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Speaker 1: knowing all those ghosts were pieces of me, Like torri Amos,

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Speaker 1: like the countless fans whose lives she figuratively and literally saved.

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Speaker 1: I had survived, I had found my voice. Where Were

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Speaker 1: You in ninety two was a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: The executive producers are Noel Brown in Jordan run Talk.

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Speaker 1: The show was researched, written and hosted by me Jason Lafier,

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Speaker 1: with editing and sound design by Michael Alder June. If

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Speaker 1: you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave us

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Speaker 1: a review. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, check

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Speaker 1: out the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

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Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.