WEBVTT - Self-Doubt w/ Dr. Alfiee Breland-Noble 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:13.480 What's up, everybody. I'm Gammy and this is Positively gam. 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.319 Something that's been on my mind lately. Is always on 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.239 my mind, self doubt. I go through it a lot 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:21.840 and have spoken about it some of my insecurities on 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:25.200 this podcast and on Red Table Talk. I know we 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:28.120 all go through self doubt regarding different things, and so 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.040 I wanted to talk to someone who can shed some 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.400 light on why we go through this self doubt and 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:37.240 ways we can become more confident in ourselves. So let's 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:42.240 get into the episode. Dr Alfie am Brilian Noble, known 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:47.960 professionally as Dr Alfie, is a pioneering psychologist, scientists, author, 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:52.360 and mental health correspondent. As an in demand expert in 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:57.680 BIPOC mental health, she hosts a video podcast, Couch and 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:01.760 Color with Dr Alfie, and it's a regular broadcast, digital 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:08.240 and print media contributor for various outlets including NBC, CNN, PBS, 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.160 and The New York Times, and she's been a guest 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.760 on our own Red Table Talk. So welcome Dr Alfie 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.880 to Positively Gam. Thank you, Gamy. Yeah, I'm so glad 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:20.640 to see you again. It was such a joy to 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.880 have you on Red Table Talk. And you know, I 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.840 just enjoyed our conversation so much. It just felt a 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.120 need to talk a little bit more about some things 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.880 that I feel a lot of people go through and 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:39.039 definitely me personally so. And it's so interesting because I 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.559 looked at my daily home the other day I give 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:48.440 the email and it was recognizing your value and I 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.600 was like, how approse, Like this is karma or something, 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.360 because that's what came up, and it's changed You're thinking 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.240 to knowing that your life matters and that you are 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.320 import too, and you know it can be it says 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.840 it can be easy sometimes to buy into the illusion 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:11.799 of our own insignificance a couple of things. So just 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.680 thinking about coming into this space and having this conversation 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:16.880 with you, it made me think of both of us 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.160 as black women. Let's start there, right, and then I 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:23.839 think start extrapolating out to all people who have these 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.680 marginalized identities. So I just I want to start there right. 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.080 So when you have an identity where you're not always 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.760 in spaces where people look like you or think like you, 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.080 or talk like you or share your experiences, I think 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.359 for many of us, particularly, I think about the world 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:40.600 that you live in and how we we all see 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.959 you publicly. I would imagine that there are oftentimes when 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.040 you're in space, you might be the only person of 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.919 color in the room. There are times maybe when you're 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.280 in spaces where you're the only woman in the room. 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.440 There are times when you're the only representative of your generation. 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.959 Not always, but sometimes so. I think a lot of 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.400 us go through that and have those experiences. And when 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.160 we're looking to around and we don't see people who 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:04.960 mirror us, right, one thing I feel is really important 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.480 is you need your mirrors. That's why parents are so 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.280 important and caregivers, because that's somebody who you can look 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.160 at them and say, Okay, so they've had X, y 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.840 Z experience and they made it through. Maybe I can. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.840 But when we don't have that, I think we tend 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.839 to internalize and think there's something wrong with us. That's 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.040 always the immediate thought, there's something wrong with us. And 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.440 then the final thing I'll add is that gets reinforced 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.000 when you watch things in all types of media, whatever 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:32.840 kind of media it is. Let's not just pick on 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:37.200 social media, and everything you see does not reinforce you positively. 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.800 So the whole name of the show positively gam right, 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.040 that's a positive reflection of who you are and what 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.160 you represent in the world. But we don't all always 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:47.560 get that, and you don't always get it either, neither 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.400 do I. So that's what contributes to ourselves doubt, right, 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:52.840 and we don't always feel that. And I have to 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:57.160 say that even being on Red Table, I mean there's 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:02.080 sometimes when first of all, me being at the table 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:09.440 with Jada and Willow, Willow who is so prolific and 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.040 so far above her years in her thinking and the 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.920 way she expresses herself, and just their experience and their 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:19.839 comfort level in front of the camera. Sometimes I'm sitting 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:24.120 at the table and I actually shrink right, and I 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.840 just I can't find my voice. I can't find my 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.800 words to fit into the conversation. So there have been 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.520 several episodes that I've watched and I'm like, Wow, I'm 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.920 actually not saying anything, and it's just my own self 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.760 doubt that I don't feel like that I have anything 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.080 to contribute to the conversation, and sometimes I actually don't. 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.200 And so I know when to be quiet. Yeah, I 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:49.440 don't need to talk if I ain't got nothing to say, 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.440 you know, But there are sometimes when I feel like 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:55.840 I have that I want to say things, but I 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.240 don't know if it's the right thing to say, you know, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.279 And it's once again that self doubt. I don't feel 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.520 like what I'm thinking is important enough to even share. 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:10.039 And so that's been challenging for me, even in that setting. 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.600 And people assume that, you know, I'm very comfortable, and 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.599 I am not. But I also feel like this is 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.120 something This is not new for me. This is something 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:24.080 I swear to you. I've always felt this way, even 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:29.720 as a child. I just have always been uncomfortable in 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.520 my own skin, and I don't know how to combat 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:38.440 and I've been in therapy, and therapists have tried to 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:44.479 delve into my childhood. Was there something in how my 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.760 mother and father raised me, how I was treated. It's like, 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:49.839 I mean, I was the youngest of four. That's the 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.479 only thing that that I can think of. I don't 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.039 feel like I was neglected. I was the youngest. I 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.279 have a sister who was two years ahead of me. 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.880 We were very close and typically I would not do 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.200 things without her, right So, I mean I would go 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.760 to school, of course, and be in in class, but 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:15.480 when it came to our outside activities, I you know, 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:19.880 I wanted to be wherever she was, so we went 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.040 to the y. I wanted to be in the same 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.480 classes that she was in, and it didn't always happen. 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.320 There were classes that we took separately, but it was 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.679 always that comfort to me that when we were switching, 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.359 like if she was taking Spanish dance, I might be 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:39.560 in uh ballet. But I knew, like when it was 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.120 time for us to switch and go to another class, 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.800 either I was gonna pass her in the hallway, or 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.000 I was gonna see her or meet up, or we're 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.400 not taking this class together, but then the next class 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:51.680 will be in the same you know what I mean. 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.279 It was just like and I mean that has gone 0:06:55.360 --> 0:07:01.480 on for you into my adulthood. It was just always 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:07.560 this don't want to do anything by myself. Mhmm hmmm. 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:09.760 I think damn some of that. Think about it, like 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:11.920 this one thing I will I hope that you will 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.840 carry with you the first thing I thought of. And 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:16.760 I'll come back to this because I gotta say both 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:21.200 of these things is your feelings are always valid, but 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.960 they're not always accurate. Think about that, right, and so 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.800 you have these feelings. Sometimes feelings come up my Mom's 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.040 used to see but she used to say, and my grandma, 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:31.960 the devil, you know, is better than the devil you 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:33.720 don't know. You know that Black folks say that, and 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.080 so that idea that it's still a devil, but you 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.880 know it. So it's comfortable about that. So that feeling. 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.280 Sometimes you're used to having that feeling, so when it 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.560 comes up, we just accept it. This is accurate because 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:48.600 I always feel like, how often do we say that's 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:52.200 just how I am. Yeah, I'm just like that, right, 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.320 And so I think part of it is. So that's 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:55.920 a piece of it. I want to come back to that. 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.320 Before that, I want to say this, I wonder if 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.720 you and your listeners and your viewers can think about 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.680 reframing it so that you focus on those aspects that 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.560 I'm just listening to you talk that you shared, where 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.000 you talked about what you do know. Sometimes I'm gonna 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:15.080 reflect it back to you. Sometimes I sit at the 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.520 red table and I have nothing to say because there's 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.720 nothing for me to contribute. Damn, how many people can 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.120 say that. How many people literally just talk and talk 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:26.800 because they're just trying to fill up the space. Whereas 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.760 what you shared is I know that there are times 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.559 when there's nothing for me to contribute, and so I 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.480 don't contribute anything, right, So sometimes all you need to 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.280 do is just acknowledge those aspects of who you are 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.880 and what you bring to this world that are positive 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.480 and that are enough. Right. So those are two pieces 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:47.000 I want to share, and then I gotta throw one 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:48.640 thing in there because it just made me think of it. 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:53.040 I really believe this idea that we're valuable, and I 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.400 think we talked about this at the Red Table. Just 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.880 because we exist, you don't have to do, have be 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:04.560 say anything. You're valuable. I remember this vividly because you 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.920 made it here to be on this planet, and there's 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.200 so many people who did not. Yeah. I think it 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:15.160 says that in the daily home too. Yes, yeah, so 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.160 I wouldn't you know. I didn't make that up, but 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.280 I remember when it was shared with me. It just 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.280 it was life changing for me. So I think this 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:26.400 idea that you can acknowledge what your strengths are. Sometimes 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.720 it's enough to just acknowledge that strength and just sit 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.439 with that, and then to remember your feelings are always 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:35.640 valid in the moment you feel them, and they're real, 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:40.200 but they are not sure feel accurate. They do feel accurate, 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:41.959 And I think part of it is practicing. How do 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.719 we practice being in the space where I acknowledge this 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:49.520 is what I'm feeling and not but and I find 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.160 ways to bring myself to a more positive plane when 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.400 I'm feeling those things. So think about yourself sitting at 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:57.079 the table and you're thinking to yourself, I don't have 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:01.120 anything contribute to this conversation. Maybe remembering me or somebody, 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.560 or remembering yourself saying that's okay because there's nothing for 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:06.920 me to contribute right now, and when the time comes 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.360 to me to contribute, I'll be ready. What if you 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:14.080 could remind yourself of that in those moments, then there's 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.040 less pressure to feel like I should be saying something, 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:17.880 I should be doing something, you know what I mean. 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.960 So just reframing it in the moment sometimes it's what 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:25.400 you need until that practice becomes automatic. Because at this point, 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.680 your automatic thought is right, and I'm sure you probably 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.920 talked about this in therapy. You're automatic thought is I'm 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.440 not saying anything, and then it devolves into I'm not 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:38.120 worthy should I really hear? Why anything to say? Right? 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.160 That's automatic? So what if the automatic starts to become. 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.480 I had this conversation with somebody and they said to me, 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:47.760 maybe it's okay that I don't have anything to say, 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.440 because that means I know myself well enough to know 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:53.600 when do I contribute and when do I hang back? 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.680 M Yeah, that's that definitely would have to be reframing 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:02.120 from me because I always go to you don't even 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:03.880 need to be sitting here because you ain't even saying 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.679 nothing right and thin. But think about this, gam Think 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.080 about what you represent just by being at the table. 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:14.000 Think about a generation of women right who, like like 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.319 I said, Jade and are gen X. When Jada is 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.080 at the table, I know she's only speaking for Jada, 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:21.520 but there's so many gen X, Black women and women 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:23.640 of color and women in general who look at her 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:25.960 and they're like, yeah, she's seeing stuff that resonates with me, 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.120 saying with Willow right as a gen Zer, it's the 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.239 same for you. For your generation. You just your presence 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.120 and as gorgeous and as radiant as you are, and 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.920 how you just show up. You are giving voice and 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:44.319 visibility to so many women who are in your generation 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.240 who might have felt they didn't have a voice and 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:51.000 nobody was reflecting their experiences and you do that just 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:55.760 by showing up. Speaking of generations, do you think that 0:11:56.280 --> 0:12:01.880 self doubt and these um insecurities are feelings that are 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.320 passed down through generations? Because I feel like I was 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.000 born that way, my mother was, it was not this way, 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.040 my father was not. I just don't know where it 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.240 came from. But do you feel like those kinds of 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:21.720 issues and fears are passed down through generations? I mean 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.000 not only are they passed down internally through generations. So 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:29.520 you think about intergenerational trauma, but you also think about societally. 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.360 What kind of messages do we get from society? So 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.640 even if it wasn't happening in your house that you 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.440 were aware of, think about this. We don't know what 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.480 was happening internally with our love that we don't know. 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.760 All we know is what they tell us. So I 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.760 guarantee you there's somebody in the family somewhere, probably close 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.920 first egree relative, who's struggling with the same stuff, but 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.440 just never verbalize those things. So I think there's this 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.280 internal part where we pass it generationally. I also think 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.240 society gives us these messages. Think about where end up 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.040 your generation and what women were told they could and 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.960 could not do. Think about that, right, I think about 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:07.800 women of my generation, we could do a little bit 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:09.800 more because of the sacrifices that you all mad. And 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.679 then I think about Willows and my daughter's generation, right, 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.400 they do even more. So I think it's a little 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.680 bit of both internal passing down but also external messaging 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:29.560 as well. Now, we also did a show on anxiety, 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.800 and I never thought of myself as being somebody who 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:39.600 is anxious. Is anxiety and self doubt connected? But they're 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.000 not the same, right, They're not the same. They're not 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:46.080 the same. But anxiety and self doubt can absolutely be connected. 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.640 So when you think about anxiety, I tend to think 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:53.520 about anxiety as worried, right, just making in plain English, worried. 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.160 That's out of proportion to whatever the stimulus is that's 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.920 presented to you. Right, So if something happens, whatever it is, like, 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.920 nobody cut you off in traffic. Many people who don't 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:04.839 have anxiety, Oh, they just cut me off in traffic. 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.960 Maybe they get annoyed. An anxious person starts thinking stuff, 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:09.560 what was I in the wrong lane? What did I 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.839 do wrong? Why did they cut me off? This is 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.360 just the worst day ever, right, and it just starts spivuling. 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:17.120 And so I think it's this idea of think about 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.160 fight or flight. We all have fight or flight, right, 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.360 It's just it's is born into us anxious people. Their 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:28.120 fight or flight isn't overdrive, right, and it's varying degrees 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.760 or overdrive. So it's not like everybody's that attend in 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.720 flight all the time. But I think when you're anxious, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.480 you're in my because I'm anxious to has a little more, 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.920 you're a little more reactive. And so I think absolutely 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.880 self doubt contributes to that. They feed each other, right, 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:45.560 So it's not necessarily no which came first, but they 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.960 absolutely feed each other. So I'm gonna give you an example. 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:54.400 I had a situation recently where I had an opportunity 0:14:54.480 --> 0:15:01.520 to attend an event, right, and they only had one 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:03.920 ticket though, so that man, I was gonna have to 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.800 go by myself. And it was an important event, something 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.680 that I really would have loved to attend, but I 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.280 didn't want to go by myself, and I had all 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.320 of these reasons why I couldn't go. I can't go, 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.800 I'm gonna be at the table by myself. I won't 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:21.680 know where to sit. I won't there's not gonna be 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.040 anybody there. I just I can't do it. And my 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:30.360 husband was like, Adrian, you absolutely are going to know 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.080 some people at the event, and what would happen. What 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.320 would be the worst thing that would happen if you 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:43.880 go and you're sitting at the table by yourself. You 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.840 know how to talk to people, you know how to 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:51.200 have conversation, and guess what, if you don't like it, 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.720 you can get up and leave. And he really had 0:15:55.760 --> 0:16:01.080 to talk me into it. My you are rap was like, 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.520 I will be there. I will be there and I 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.160 can greet you and make sure that you get in 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:09.880 your seat and all that, and you know, and then 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.400 I was like, Okay, I can do it. I can 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.040 do it. And then it turned out I had to 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:18.760 work and I couldn't go anyway. But then I got 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.880 all ramped up, and you know, ready I wanted to go. 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.440 I was excited about going. It was an event that 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.240 I actually really wanted to attend. I was just I 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.080 let my fear take over, so I see that anxiety 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.160 because my head I went to all of this, just 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.400 all these reasons why I absolutely could not do it. 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.120 I just I can't do it. I can't do it, 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.120 you know. And my husband was I mean, I love 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.280 him so much, he just he is a grounding force 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:52.800 in my life. You know. That was I think a 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:58.480 really good example of anxiety and self doubt, like the 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:04.199 two of them like combusting and creating such a you know, 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:09.880 a negative force in my mind. It wasn't real. It's 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:21.080 just you know, I just went left immediately. What about 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:25.720 codependency Does that that trigger yourself out as well? Yeah, 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:29.320 because think about it like this, codependency is you can't 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:33.040 It's an extreme version of I am half a person 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.400 and I need another half a person to be whole. Right, 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.480 It's not I'm a a whole individual. This other person 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.960 as a whole individual, and together we can be a 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.160 whole couple or a whole partnership, or you know, whatever 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:46.280 the case may be, whatever your relationship is to that person. 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:51.120 Codependency is really about we have to really sort of 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.000 lean on each other so much that neither one of 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.800 us can stand on our own. And of course that's 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.119 going to feed self out because you think about it, 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.719 if they're things that you should normally be able to 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.119 do without any difficulty, I think in our minds, the 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:09.119 codependency really sort of feeds this idea. Of course, I 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:12.359 can't do that unless I have this other person to 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.200 do whatever that thing is, So we don't give ourselves 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.920 an opportunity we are a part of working through self 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.399 doubt is giving yourself enough data to see that when 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.359 you're faced with a difficult situation, you can get through it. 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.320 But if you're codependent and you always need that other 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.840 person to help you get through whatever it is, when 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.639 do you ever learn the lesson that you alone, like 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.200 you said in your daily own, are good enough by 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:38.119 yourself just as you are. You don't give yourself an opportunity. 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:40.920 So to me, of course, that naturally is going to 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.400 feed self doubt. And I think that's a natural tendency 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.360 for those of us who have anxiety, especially if it's 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:48.720 really high level anxiety where it's with us all the 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.600 time and it's activated all the time. That's a natural 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.399 tendency to go there because we're not trusting ourselves that 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.080 we can do things on our own, and of course 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:07.280 we can't. We just need practice. Yeah, So how do 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:11.280 you think the pandemic has affected or triggered people when 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.520 it comes to self doubt, just that being forced to 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.600 be alone all the time. It is, Yeah, you're forced 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:19.639 to be alone with your thoughts, and you think about it, 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.320 you're you also don't have opportunities to practice. Again, My 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:26.440 thing is always about you gotta practice behaviors to learn 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.720 them and integrate them into your life day to day. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.080 When do you get to practice things like, say, for example, 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.200 one of your things is you're socially shock, but you're 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.600 really trying to work on engaging people. The pandemic forced 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:39.879 you to be in the house more so, when do 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:41.879 you get to practice and what do you do? You 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.160 revert back to the stuff that makes you feel comfortable, 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.320 and sometimes the stuff that makes you feel comfortable. Remember 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:47.800 what it said, the devil, you know, it's been a 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:50.160 devil you don't know, but it's still a devil. You're 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.440 hanging out with that devil of self doubt and it 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.399 just you're allowing it to grow. I think there's a 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.000 part of it said that. I think there's a part 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.520 of it where we think about things like depression and 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:05.000 anxiet iety often go together, right, So you're maybe frustrated 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.879 because you're in the house anxious. Your anxiety is growing, 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.439 and then you get sad because your anxiety is getting worse, 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:12.840 and then it's just a vicious cycle. So when do 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.520 you get the opportunity to help pull yourself out of 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.399 that if you're not out of the house doing things 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:21.920 that help you relieve your anxiety. I remember one of 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:23.400 the things you said was you like to be out 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.320 in nature, okay and right, and the nature and nature 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.440 helps you. I'm the same way. I like to be 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:30.879 outside running the walk, and especially we have like creeks 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.280 and streams by where I live. I love being by 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.679 the water. What happens if I can't get outside to 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.760 be by the water, I'm just sitting with that anxiety. 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.000 And one more thing I'll add is people who are 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:44.480 able to do things like let's say you figured out 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:48.320 that exercise really helps you with your anxiety, and you 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.359 really like to go to the gym. During the pandemic, 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.439 the gym was closed, right, so you couldn't go to 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.040 the gym, And now that it's open, maybe you're worried 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:59.639 about people are in there without masks. I don't go 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:01.199 in there getting no germs. I don't want to get 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.600 be exposed to COVID. And so you keep yourself in 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:05.320 the house. So I think there are lots of ways 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:09.440 in which, to your point, the pandemic and isolation and 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:13.640 quarantine have really fed people's anxieties, not intentionally, but it's 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.960 just a byproduct. So what are the different things Like, 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:22.680 are there exercises or that we can do to just 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.760 kind of help us with this, you know, things that 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:31.280 we can do to build up our self confidence. Absolutely, 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:33.639 so I think it's baby steps. So one of the 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:35.879 things we teach people when you're teaching them how to 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:40.159 manage anxiety is something called exposure treatment. I think that 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:43.800 without getting too formal, we can expose ourselves to things 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.320 step by step, in little baby steps to help us 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.520 get more acclimated to doing those things and develop more 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.520 confidence in ourselves that we can accomplish those things. So, 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.680 for example, like when you said your husband was talking 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:00.040 to you about going to this event by yourself, I 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.520 think an example of that might be can you sit quietly? 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:05.360 This is what I teach my patients when I work 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:08.720 with patients. Can you sit quietly and just visualize what 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:10.920 would it be like to show up at that event. 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:15.280