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Speaker 1: Don't no, no, don't, don't do.

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Speaker 2: La no dum.

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Speaker 1: Dum dum six and getting out of bed. Pusskin can't

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Speaker 1: get back in sleep. Ain't gonna pick the way?

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Speaker 3: Goodday have got you working, taking good pull games, seeing

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Speaker 3: your way.

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Speaker 4: Coming down, way going.

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Speaker 3: Get up, stay down.

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Speaker 1: Wait, Welcome back to good mom's bad choices. This is Nila.

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Speaker 1: I'm Erica, and today is Wednesday.

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Speaker 3: Today is Wednesday, not really, but when you hear it

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Speaker 3: it will be.

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Speaker 1: It's Sunday. It's actually so day.

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Speaker 5: Our kids are in the other room playing with Jamila's parents.

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Speaker 1: They are the babysitters of the day. I don't even know.

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Speaker 3: They may be louder with the two parents supervising than

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Speaker 3: they are normally.

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Speaker 1: I know they are.

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Speaker 2: They're both extremely tired. We've endured at least my daughter,

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Speaker 2: Lunda's so much, like what why was my kid so crazy? No,

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Speaker 2: Luna's crazy too, She just I mean, not crazy. It's

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Speaker 2: just at these tantrums. I know. And when I was

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Speaker 2: out of town, I kept asking me, like my mom

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Speaker 2: or my grandma, how do the tantrums go?

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Speaker 1: I was like, what tantrum? She doesn't they don't much

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Speaker 1: doesn't have tantrums.

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Speaker 2: With me.

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Speaker 1: You think she's only doing it with you?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't. I just think that's what my parents

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Speaker 2: like to tell me, because they're.

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Speaker 1: Like, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: When she's here, she's a perfect angel, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know what you're doing back home.

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Speaker 1: Do you think she's getting spoiled by that?

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Speaker 2: Probably she probably doesn't have tantrums because she doesn't have

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Speaker 2: to have them because she think she gets.

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Speaker 3: Everything she wants, and then as soon as she starts,

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Speaker 3: they're like here here. Yeah, Lina is definitely in a

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Speaker 3: phase where I'm thinking, like, you know, I'm not against

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Speaker 3: violence to children. However I'm starting, well, you are against

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Speaker 3: I'm against it. But in Lona's case, she I think

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Speaker 3: she needs a little papa because she's super grown and

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Speaker 3: sassy and she's like rolling her eyes and she's she's hitting,

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Speaker 3: like trying to hit me, and I'm like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna beat your ass, but not that I can.

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Speaker 1: Tone child abuse, but you know what I mean.

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Speaker 6: Anyway, Anyway, today we have a special guest, very near

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Speaker 6: and dear to me and very happy you're here. We

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Speaker 6: have writer, author, screen playwright, actress, model, artivist Lisa Jesse Peterson.

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Speaker 3: Also like my aunt. She's my mom's high school friend.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that they went to high school together.

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Speaker 5: Oh my goodness, my mother.

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Speaker 3: This is my auntie, my aunt Lisa. She has been

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Speaker 3: in the arts since I can remember.

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Speaker 1: I remember like a high school my.

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Speaker 3: Mom went to New York and we went to go

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Speaker 3: see one of your one woman plays then and I

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Speaker 3: was like blown away.

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Speaker 1: It's like so inspired by that. So you know, I

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Speaker 1: look at you take amatic classes.

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Speaker 5: I know, yes, I take credit for.

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Speaker 3: That fifteen years to cultivate.

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Speaker 2: No, Actually, when I I was when Jamila went to

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Speaker 2: see your show, she called me afterwards because it was

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Speaker 2: in Harlem, right, yeah, we both happened to be in

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Speaker 2: New York at the time, and she was like, I

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Speaker 2: just had this amazing show, one woman's show. I didn't

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Speaker 2: even know one woman's show could exist, Like how does

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Speaker 2: one put on a one show with one person?

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Speaker 1: But it was, It.

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Speaker 2: Worked and it was amazing, and she was super excited

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Speaker 2: about it. So I'm really excited to go to your

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Speaker 2: show on Tuesday. And if you guys are in the

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Speaker 2: LA area on Tuesday.

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Speaker 1: Well this will be out.

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Speaker 2: Oh shit, we're gonna be we already Okay, we posted

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Speaker 2: it on you missed it, you were there or you weren't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you should.

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Speaker 2: But you should definitely follow follow Lisa because you can

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Speaker 2: find out whenever she's performing and you perform in a

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Speaker 2: bunch of in work generally, but.

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Speaker 5: One of my players now touring nationally.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's amazing.

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Speaker 3: So that the first okay, So that's the first off

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Speaker 3: of the national tour, dope, so tell tell everyone.

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Speaker 4: They actually the first stop just happened a few months

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Speaker 4: ago in Boston. So I went from Harlem to Boston,

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Speaker 4: and now it's going to Wooly.

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Speaker 1: Mammoth and DC Dope. And how long were you in Boston?

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Speaker 5: Three weeks?

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Speaker 1: Okay? So you're going to do generally about three weeks.

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Speaker 1: In each week try and do the run is generally

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Speaker 1: about two and a half to three weeks. Are you

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Speaker 1: going to come here for that particular? So you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, my.

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Speaker 4: Project manager, he's working on making some you know, connections

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Speaker 4: out here in LA.

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Speaker 1: And making work.

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Speaker 3: Project manager, Brad, we went the Peculiar Patriot in l A.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Brad. What's your Instagram?

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Speaker 5: Lisa?

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Speaker 3: Jesse Peterson's Lisa with a Z not anss Okay, baby

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Speaker 3: in your website.

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Speaker 4: Uh, Lisa Jesse, j E s s Ie. Make sure

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Speaker 4: there's I in Jesse lisajessep dot com.

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Speaker 1: Cool. So most recently, I mean, outside of.

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Speaker 3: Your one woman show, you released a book All Day,

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Speaker 3: that was also featured on Sunday's Book Club Reading. It's

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Speaker 3: gonna be on the website, so anybody who wants to

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Speaker 3: go check it out.

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Speaker 1: There'll be a summary.

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Speaker 3: We highly recommend it and where you can find it

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Speaker 3: on our on our website too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but tell us about it.

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Speaker 4: So my book is called All Day, A Year of

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Speaker 4: Love and Survival teaching and Crosser Brad Kids at Rykers Island,

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Speaker 4: and it chronicles one particular year. So I've been working

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Speaker 4: at Rychos Island for twenty years. I started in nineteen

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Speaker 4: ninety eight and the book takes place the timeframe is

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Speaker 4: from two thousand and eight to two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 4: So within the twenty year span that I was working

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Speaker 4: at Rykas Island in different capacities, there was one particular

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Speaker 4: year where I was asked to teach full time, to

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Speaker 4: be a full time school teacher teaching ged So prior

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Speaker 4: to that, I had been a teaching artist, a re

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Speaker 4: entry specialist working with them when they come home. So

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Speaker 4: I've never worked with them in that capacity. So this

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Speaker 4: was a really specific and particular and unique year out

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Speaker 4: of all the years that I've worked at Ryas Island.

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Speaker 5: So it was so wow. It was so.

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Speaker 4: Different and so challenging and just so uh wild that

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Speaker 4: while I was working, cause I'm my my day started

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Speaker 4: at seven fifty am in the morning and I had

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Speaker 4: to leave my house at five thirty am just to

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Speaker 4: get to Rikers. And so I'm an artist, so I'm

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Speaker 4: I'm wired differently, you know, right, No, I was not late,

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Speaker 4: but but it definitely made me had to switch on

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Speaker 4: another kind of structure, a life's kind of gear in

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Speaker 4: my mind, in my head, and so you know, my

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Speaker 4: my artist was struggling to survive. Was like I didn't

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Speaker 4: you know, I didn't have a creative pulse. And so

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Speaker 4: the only way that I could, you know, kind of

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Speaker 4: make sense of what was happening in the world that

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Speaker 4: I had just entered, cause I'm there from seven fifty

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Speaker 4: eight am to two thirty pm in the same classroom

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Speaker 4: with the same boys all day. The bell doesn't ring,

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Speaker 4: they don't change classes. I'm there, and I thought I

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Speaker 4: teach all the subjects.

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Speaker 1: So and wait, and for those listeners who are not familiar,

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Speaker 1: Riker's Island is a prison.

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Speaker 5: It's a jail.

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Speaker 1: It's a j jail. It's not a person.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, it's a jails. I think it's one of

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Speaker 4: the largest in New York, uh in in the country.

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Speaker 1: Y oh if yeah, you have to take a ferry.

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Speaker 4: Yeah okay, well no, you don't have to take a faery,

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Speaker 4: but you do have to take a bus over the bridge.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 5: So it literally is surrounded by water.

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Speaker 1: So that's why Rikers Island.

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Speaker 4: So the only way that I could make sense of

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Speaker 4: what was happening and just kind of, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: just keep some kind of pulse for my artists was

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Speaker 4: I came home every day after work and I would

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Speaker 4: just download in my journal. Because I've always been a

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Speaker 4: journal writer. I write in my journal all the time.

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Speaker 4: So when I would come home from work, it would

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Speaker 4: just be I'm absorbing so much that I had to

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Speaker 4: download so write in my journal. Now, I had no

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Speaker 4: idea that my journal was going to become my book

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Speaker 4: because I wasn't doing the classroom thinking oh, this would

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Speaker 4: be a great book and this would be a great story,

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Speaker 4: like I'm in it.

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Speaker 2: I'm in the trenches, I'm fighting with these boys. I'm

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Speaker 2: just it's crazy.

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Speaker 4: So the journal was something that just helped me to

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Speaker 4: really kind of release, to make room in my head

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Speaker 4: and my spirit to go in the next day with

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Speaker 4: a clean slate. So about a year after I left

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Speaker 4: Rightkers Island, I literally just picked up Oh there I

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Speaker 4: am with no makeup. See, you didn't tell me I

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Speaker 4: was going to be recorded, so I had no makeup.

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Speaker 5: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look at the lips, don't look anything else. So

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Speaker 4: being being because I'm in La, because I'm in La.

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Speaker 4: So about a year after I finished, uh did that

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Speaker 4: that stint at Rycle's Island working in that capacity, I

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Speaker 4: picked up my journal just randomly. You know how sometimes

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Speaker 4: you go back over the journals you just kind of

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Speaker 4: want to flip through and see what you Yeah, it

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Speaker 4: kind of exactly kind I thought, you're taking a look

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Speaker 4: back in your life to see where you were at

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Speaker 4: that time emotionally, spiritually and what was going on. So

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Speaker 4: I opened up the journal it and it was one

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Speaker 4: of the days that I had downloaded from working in

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Speaker 4: the classroom, and it made me laugh. I'm like, oh

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Speaker 4: my god, I remember that ship. And I turned the

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Speaker 4: page and it made me laugh some more.

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Speaker 5: I was like, oh my god. And I kept turning the.

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Speaker 4: Page and I realized and that I had chronicled my

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Speaker 4: entire year working at Rykers Island.

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Speaker 5: And I said, oh my god, I wrote my book.

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Speaker 5: But in the time, but when I.

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Speaker 1: Was in the classroom, when you weren't think, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: thinking it's a book.

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Speaker 4: This is the all way that I could survive and

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Speaker 4: just have some kind of you know, sanity and some

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Speaker 4: kind of creative polls to make room to just be creative,

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Speaker 4: which I was not because I wasn't performing. I wasn't

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Speaker 4: I thought I wasn't. But what I was doing, I

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Speaker 4: was like a sponge. I was absorbing, you know, which

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Speaker 4: is what we artists do. We're antennas where sponges we

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Speaker 4: absorb and then we download, we process, and then we

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Speaker 4: release in whatever way we do, whether it's you know,

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Speaker 4: music or singing or dancing or writing or acting. And

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Speaker 4: so I was literally absorbing everything and kind of squeezing

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Speaker 4: it out.

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Speaker 1: On my journal, and my journal was like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: here for you.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's so cool.

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Speaker 3: So I'm sure that was a life altering experience it was.

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Speaker 4: And you'll get it, and it's and it's and it's

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Speaker 4: definitely in the book, and it's in the show that

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Speaker 4: you're gonna come see on Wednesday, which the people who

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Speaker 4: are listening will have missed it. I'm sorry Tuesday, so

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Speaker 4: that that's.

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Speaker 5: The so you'll get an idea.

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Speaker 4: You'll see I'll be performing excerpts of meat in the

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Speaker 4: classroom with the boys and what that was like and.

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Speaker 5: How did you even get the job at Rikers? Like

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Speaker 5: what led you to Wrikers.

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Speaker 4: So my introduction to Rykers Island, which was my introduction

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Speaker 4: to the prison industrial complex, was in nineteen ninety eight

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Speaker 4: and I was asked to teach.

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Speaker 5: A poetry workshop.

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Speaker 4: At the time, there were a bunch of nonprofit not

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Speaker 4: a bunch, but there were several nonprofit organizations and they

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Speaker 4: would get artists, writers, poets and they would send them

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Speaker 4: out to the different public schools throughout the different five

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Speaker 4: boroughs to do artists workshops, poetry workshops, you know, music workshops,

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Speaker 4: because the schools didn't have money. So there's non profits

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Speaker 4: right providing that y you know, that service. And because

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Speaker 4: I was already in the spoken word see and I

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Speaker 4: was doing my thing, and I was making a name

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Speaker 4: for myself, you know, the new a Meek and Poets

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Speaker 4: Cafe shout out to New York and Poets Cafe.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: The nonprofit asked me to come and you know, be

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Speaker 4: a teaching artist.

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Speaker 5: And the very first job I got was.

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Speaker 4: Teaching poetry workshops to incarcerate adolescent boys at Ryker's Island.

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Speaker 4: Now that it was supposed to be a three week workshop,

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Speaker 4: because that's how teaching artists games work. You go somewhere,

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Speaker 4: you're teaching artists for a couple of weeks, and then

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Speaker 4: they give you another job, or you know, they'll find

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Speaker 4: another school.

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Speaker 1: So I thought I was going to well.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know that I was going to Rikers Island

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Speaker 4: because the name of the school was called Island Academy.

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Speaker 5: Oh damn.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine like just going to another school?

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Speaker 5: Oh wait exactly.

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Speaker 4: So I thought I was going to like a prep school,

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Speaker 4: like an academy, right literally, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 5: And I was like, oh, Riker's Island.

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Speaker 1: And so the three week.

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Speaker 4: Workshop turned into three months because the teachers kept asking.

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Speaker 4: So the teacher next door was like, oh, I want

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Speaker 4: her next, and the teacher next door, oh, I want

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Speaker 4: her next, and so they kind of passed me around

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Speaker 4: like a hot potato because there was such a great

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Speaker 4: response from the boys that all the teachers wanted to

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Speaker 4: have the poetry, the cool poetry lady come and do

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Speaker 4: their class next. So my three week stint, they kept

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Speaker 4: booking me at that same school.

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Speaker 5: So I became the teaching.

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Speaker 4: Artist in residence at Ryka's Island for three months, which

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Speaker 4: turned into three years. And god, you know, so I

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Speaker 4: had a relationship developed with Island Academy. So the vice

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Speaker 4: principal at the time when I was a teaching artist

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Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety eight, he later became the principal. So

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Speaker 4: when he was a principal back in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 4: he was like, hey, I know you, you work well

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Speaker 4: with this population.

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Speaker 5: We need a substitute come in. Can you cover for

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Speaker 5: a year.

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Speaker 4: And I think he'd be great because you're already your writer,

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Speaker 4: so you'd be great, you know, doing English language arts.

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Speaker 5: And I said sure.

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Speaker 4: I had no idea what I was getting myself into.

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Speaker 4: No idea. It was terrifying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how many students were in a class about.

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Speaker 3: Twenty five and then is there like a a p

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Speaker 3: like a a correction officer.

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Speaker 1: That the whole time. Uh, they're supposed to be, but

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Speaker 1: there wasn't always. Oh are they understaffed.

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Speaker 2: No, they weren't understaffed. But to toot my own horn, you.

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Speaker 1: Had those you had had it together. I kind of

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Speaker 1: had it a lot.

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Speaker 4: So they would just kind of poke their heads in

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Speaker 4: and I was one of those classrooms where they didn't

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Speaker 4: have to come and monitor and babysit.

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Speaker 5: They were just kind of.

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Speaker 4: Checking out make sure she They were like, okay, miss Peace,

305
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Speaker 4: she got under control.

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Speaker 5: But she's cool. And so I was kind of one

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Speaker 5: of the classrooms.

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Speaker 4: And there were other classrooms like that, but you know,

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Speaker 4: there were something that needed a coo in there all

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Speaker 4: the time because the teacher was you know, just didn't So.

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Speaker 3: I gradually you got more and more comfortable with your students,

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Speaker 3: and so you didn't feel like it was a thr

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Speaker 3: like you didn't feel scared.

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Speaker 5: You were, well, I was never scared.

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Speaker 1: MM.

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Speaker 5: So I was never scared.

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Speaker 4: So when I say it was terrifying, it was terrifying

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Speaker 4: in the sense that I didn't think that I was

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Speaker 4: gonna be a great educator because I know how to write,

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Speaker 4: I know how to speak, the King's English. But to

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Speaker 4: teach it, now, I've got to teach the mechanics. That's

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Speaker 4: a whole different thing. That's a whole different thing. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: I know grammar, structure and and you know sentence, you

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Speaker 4: know context, but to teach it, it was like, oh shit,

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Speaker 4: I've got to go back and relearn the mechanics so

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Speaker 4: I can teach it, even though I know it instinctively,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean, But now I've got to

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Speaker 4: bring and now I've got to be able to break

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Speaker 4: it down and make it accessible for students so that

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Speaker 4: they can now do what I do kind of effortlessly.

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Speaker 4: And that's what was terrifying. And Social Studies, I was like,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, the branch of the government, Like I

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Speaker 4: forgot all that shit. So but I've got to be

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Speaker 4: able to teach it, and I've got to relearn it.

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Speaker 4: So I was terrifiedause I'm like, oh my god, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to suck as an educator and my job is

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Speaker 4: to teach them. So that was that was the fear

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Speaker 4: of not being an educator.

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Speaker 5: Not for my safety. I feel like I have that

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Speaker 5: fear and daily as a parent.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm it's so funny. I can relate.

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Speaker 2: Literally today Jamila, I was I.

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Speaker 1: I was telling her.

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Speaker 2: I was like I, I was like, this is unacceptable.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what unacceptable means? And she's like, no,

346
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Speaker 2: what does it mean? And then I was like, wait,

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Speaker 2: I know what it means. How I've never been like

348
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Speaker 2: how is the definition of that?

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Speaker 4: I was like, it means I don't like it. You

350
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Speaker 4: have to learn how to dissect everything down to it's

351
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Speaker 4: like you know, roote.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it means I don't like it. And

353
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Speaker 2: I was like, that's not what I need to get deeper. Yeah, exactly,

354
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Speaker 2: like I need to get deeper. I feel like I'm

355
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Speaker 2: constantly challenged, you know, by her when she's asking me questions.

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Speaker 2: And she's only three, so I can only imagine as

357
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 2: an educator, we have teenagers asking you, and of course

358
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:36,440
Speaker 2: they're little assholes and teenagers are narcissistic. Yeah, and so

359
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 2: they're challenging you daily like well what does that mean?

360
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 1: By tell me about that?

361
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Speaker 2: And you and you're like, well, damn, Like it keeps

362
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:43,600
Speaker 2: you on and I had to keep you on your toes.

363
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 2: You probably want more than there about re went back

364
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,200
Speaker 2: and relearned so much stuff that you learned in school.

365
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Speaker 5: Absolutely and more.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they.

367
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,440
Speaker 5: Made me earn my stripes. Yeah, every stripe I have

368
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:56,720
Speaker 5: I got from those boys.

369
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Speaker 3: You mentioned it earlier, you said when you first went

370
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,479
Speaker 3: you had you it was your first introductory to prison

371
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:06,680
Speaker 3: industrial complex.

372
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:07,360
Speaker 1: What does that mean?

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Speaker 4: So the prison of industrial complex, which is now known

374
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,439
Speaker 4: as massi incarceration, it's the same thing. So it's massive

375
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,639
Speaker 4: conceration because it's an industry, it's a whole system. Like

376
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:24,359
Speaker 4: the military industrial complex, it's an industry, the military industry,

377
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,000
Speaker 4: So the prison prison is an industry, and it's a

378
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:29,880
Speaker 4: national industry in this country.

379
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Speaker 1: So, speaking of that, Eric and I did some brief

380
00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 1: research before you came.

381
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 5: Up Google Mommy.

382
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:37,200
Speaker 2: We did.

383
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:38,200
Speaker 1: We were low key crying.

384
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,200
Speaker 2: We were crying, I mean because we know, of course

385
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Speaker 2: I know that, Like you know, prison reform is something

386
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,760
Speaker 2: that's you know, been you know, so many politicians you know,

387
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,280
Speaker 2: push for against it because it's in their best interest,

388
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 2: it's feeding their pockets, and it's just.

389
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,159
Speaker 1: So like, I don't see an end to it.

390
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,320
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, it's fucking crazy because there's too much money in it,

391
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 2: and it's sort of the new slavery sort of. It

392
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 2: is so many ways, you know, for minorities.

393
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,200
Speaker 1: And so let's read a couple of the statistics we found.

394
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,679
Speaker 2: One is that the US makes up five percent of

395
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 2: the global population and has twenty five percent of the

396
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,399
Speaker 2: world's prison population. There's two point three million people in

397
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 2: prison today right now, and.

398
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Speaker 3: We only make up five percent of the global population,

399
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,640
Speaker 3: right so it means a lot of motherfuckers are locked

400
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 3: up here specifically specifically.

401
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, no more than anywhere else. Yeah, and please, if

402
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:35,240
Speaker 1: you have anything to.

403
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,639
Speaker 4: Add, well, the United States is the prison superpower of

404
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:38,160
Speaker 4: the planet.

405
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:44,159
Speaker 1: Damn. That sounds crazy, but it's true. What else is

406
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 1: in here? Oh, in twenty twelve, US spent eighty one

407
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: billion dollars on corrections. What to your other statistics?

408
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,440
Speaker 2: Oh, and as far as like, the budget for education

409
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 2: is sixty four billion, which is obviously it's offset by

410
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 2: this eighty billion dollar budget.

411
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,000
Speaker 1: So it's like, there's.

412
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 2: They're spending so much money on prison and spending less

413
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,560
Speaker 2: on the education for these for these for these young

414
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 2: men and women to try to understand why it is

415
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:12,719
Speaker 2: they're going to prison, Well, a lot of them are

416
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 2: for stupid crimes that aren't that shouldn't be.

417
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,359
Speaker 5: They shouldn't be in prison for or in jail for

418
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 5: for that matter.

419
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,159
Speaker 2: You know, I was telling Jamila, I was like, so

420
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 2: many of these kids that are in jail are in

421
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 2: jail for things that I have done so many times

422
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 2: that could be me because I didn't get caught, you know,

423
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,920
Speaker 2: like in jail for like like like with Kolief Broder,

424
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 2: like stealing a backpack, which he did not do exactly,

425
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 2: which he didn't even and.

426
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 3: Again despite the fucked up circumstances that he faced, he'd

427
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 3: refused to and to say he was guilty.

428
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:45,960
Speaker 1: But he didn't want to take the play, which is

429
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 1: the whole way those we'll talk.

430
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,679
Speaker 3: About him specifically you guys haven't heard of him, but

431
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,560
Speaker 3: also we're talking about, you know, prison, the prison system

432
00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,119
Speaker 3: mimicking slavery because African American and Hispanics make up only

433
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,439
Speaker 3: thirty two percent of the US population, but they make

434
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,439
Speaker 3: up fifty six percent of the incarcerated population, which that

435
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 3: was twenty fifteen statistics, So we're smaller in numbers, but

436
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 3: somehow filling primarily filling the prisons, which to me says.

437
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 1: We're being targeted.

438
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 3: And if what did they say if Blacks and Hispanics

439
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 3: were incarcerated at the same rate as Caucasians.

440
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 1: The prison would before the.

441
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,919
Speaker 5: Population would decrease forty percent, meaning if.

442
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,360
Speaker 3: It was equal, that the ship was actually fair, ship

443
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 3: was actually fair like it should be, you know, then

444
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 3: it would decrease by forty percent. So that's why we

445
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 3: think that it mimics slavery a lot, and it's just

446
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 3: like a legal way of allowing it, the shit to happen,

447
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 3: you know, free labor.

448
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 2: Why are you familiar with the thirteenth Amendment, the documentary

449
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 2: or the right because the thirteenth the film, the documentary

450
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 2: by Abra Durney, which is brilliant, which everyone should watch

451
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 2: on the study on Netflix.

452
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,160
Speaker 5: Yet the thirteenth is from the thirteenth.

453
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 4: It means the thirteenth Amendment, and the thirteenth Amendment, which

454
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 4: is in the constitution, says that slavery is illegal except

455
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 4: for punishment of a crime, which means that if you

456
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 4: commit a crime, then that thirteenth Amendment does not cover you,

457
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 4: so that slavery is legal if you are convicted of

458
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 4: a crime. And right after the Emancipation Proclamation, right right

459
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 4: after slavery ended, there was you know, the slave owners, right,

460
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,360
Speaker 4: they need they needed workers, they needed people to continue.

461
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 4: They needed to keep the money coming in. So now

462
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 4: they have their former slaves who can now just walk

463
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 4: off and be free.

464
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 3: So but they really can't because they don't have education,

465
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 3: and they don't have property, and they have nowhere to live.

466
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 4: And some are okay with that. They were like, well,

467
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 4: we're going to make it work. However, we rather work

468
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 4: it out. However we need to work out and be free,

469
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 4: then to stay and be slaves in some state and

470
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 4: continue to work. But there was this thing that they

471
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 4: that they created called convict leasing, and convict leasing meant that,

472
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 4: you know.

473
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 5: If you were arrested right that you could the plantation.

474
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 4: Owners the slave, you know, former slave owners, they could

475
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 4: get that convicts and they can lease them out to

476
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 4: work on the plantation to do the same work that

477
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 4: the slave did. But they were now getting the convicts,

478
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 4: so they were still doing the same work that the

479
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 4: slaves were doing, but now they were getting convicts. So

480
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 4: then it was in the best interests for the state

481
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 4: and the counties to now have a population of convicts

482
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 4: that can then be leased out to the slave former slave.

483
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: Owners to have basically free labor.

484
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 4: To have free labor legally, do you understand, So convict

485
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 4: leasing then replace what was slavery. So that was the

486
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 4: beginning of seeing the prison population just grow because you

487
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 4: could get arrested for anything. For looking white people in

488
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 4: the eye, you could get a rested. In mind, you

489
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 4: now you have slaves who are you know, black people,

490
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 4: Africans who are now free, who don't have to work

491
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 4: under you know, the rules of slavery. But now they're

492
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 4: being punished for not having a job.

493
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: They're being punished.

494
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 4: For you know, these small what they call you know, vagantry,

495
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 4: vagrant sea crimes, you know, loitering, congregating to.

496
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 7: A congregating I mean, I mean for literally, if you

497
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 7: look at a white man in the eye, you could

498
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 7: be arrested for, you know, also not knowing this new

499
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 7: society's rules, because all you've ever known is living on

500
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 7: a plane. Well there are no rules for black people,

501
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 7: and it didn't apply exactly to us, so they could

502
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 7: say anything they wanted, any I mean, any any any

503
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 7: any anything, and who who who's gonna check me exactly,

504
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 7: check exactly. So now you have a whole swath of

505
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 7: you know, recently freed, you know, African people, former slaves,

506
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 7: who are now being swept up into this convict you

507
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 7: know status who now are being.

508
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 4: Leased back out to the former slavery right and doing

509
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 4: the same thing and as former slaves.

510
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 2: So that was the beginning of what has now been

511
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: ballooned in.

512
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: Concentration.

513
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 4: And the thirteenth Amendment, which is in the Constitution, makes

514
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 4: it legal to have people who are incarcerated work for free.

515
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 4: And that's why you have so many you know, businesses

516
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 4: and corporations, you know, higher and and and they use

517
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 4: prison labor.

518
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 3: And don't be confused, guys, like if you just do

519
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 3: a little bit of research, you'll find that, like major

520
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 3: billion dollar companies that in reality don't fucking need free

521
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 3: labor utilize this free labor.

522
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 4: I mean, ge airlines, lingerie, whole I mean, I'm not

523
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 4: going to get into the list because because the whole

524
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 4: foods yeah yeah really yeah, milk potatoes. I mean, I

525
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 4: mean you could just really if you google companies use slavely.

526
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, prison labor.

527
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just so crazy, watermelons, agriculture, Victoria's secrets, you know,

528
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 4: phone companies, furniture, military helmets, microphones. I mean, the list

529
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 4: it's sick, it's almost you know, unimaginable. Probably a lot

530
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 4: of things in my house right now. Yeah, yeah, and

531
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 4: not even knowing not even knowing it.

532
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 5: You know, Tilapia, you know.

533
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: So, I mean there's so much that she wouldn't even imagine.

534
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 3: So many major companies in corporation are bete from this,

535
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 3: not to mention the people who have shares and fucking

536
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 3: own private prisons. Yeah, basically allowing slavery to take place,

537
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 3: but in like a hush hush presentable way.

538
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, ah, that's crazy.

539
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 3: And then this is why guys like I don't fuck

540
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 3: with the government and I probably never will, Like I

541
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 3: can't trust the government that a enslaved people, my ancestors

542
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 3: and then twist rules to benefit them.

543
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 5: That's why, like in just.

544
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: In general, I have.

545
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 3: A lot of huge distrust for the government and politicians

546
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 3: in general because I don't think any of that shit

547
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 3: is cool, and it's it's almost like sugarcoated to make

548
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 3: it seem like it's the land of the free and

549
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 3: there's just this democracy.

550
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 1: And that's why even some for some.

551
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 3: But that doesn't apply to people that look like me,

552
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 3: so fuck it, And it's it's just crazy to me

553
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 3: that we you know, people like to say primarily people

554
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 3: who are not affected by this or don't know people

555
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 3: who affected by this. And that was another thing about

556
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 3: that for your first The Peculiar Patriot that I really

557
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 3: liked it. It kind of I didn't recognize this is

558
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 3: about like the prison system. How many people like I

559
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 3: know who have been affected, How I personally have been

560
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 3: affected by the prison system, and I have super scary stories,

561
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 3: and you know, I come from a pretty decent background

562
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: living in LA It's not I don't like live in

563
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 3: gangster paradise or no shit like that.

564
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: But I'm just like, it's just it's it's almost.

565
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 3: Like, oh, yeah, I know this person to person, this person,

566
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 3: like it's just second second nature you don't realize normalized.

567
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 3: And then I have like friends who come by this

568
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 3: by like random occurrences, and then like, I.

569
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: Can't believe this is so unjust or I've read the

570
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: Black Gym Crawl.

571
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm I'm surprised, you're shocked because this is

572
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 3: something that I've known existed for a long time.

573
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: But it almost is sad for me that I'm numb

574
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: to it.

575
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we're also looking at some other things, as

576
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 3: do you know the judge Mark Siavirella.

577
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was his last name, Giaverrella, Ciavarella. Who the

578
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania judge.

579
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there was a documentary about him, Kids for Cash.

580
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 3: Kids for Cash, Yeah, And basically it was a judge

581
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 3: and a district attorney and also a developer all working

582
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 3: together to basically give the judge and the district attorney kickbacks.

583
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 5: For sentencing kids to their facility. Yeah, because they have

584
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 5: a privately owned facility exactly.

585
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: And the more beds are filled, the more money they

586
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: were getting. I guess.

587
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: I think in total, three thousand, yeah, three thousand kids

588
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: he sent to jail.

589
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

590
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 5: I talked about that in my play and it's insane.

591
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: And how many got expunged after they found him out.

592
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 2: It was two thousand, four hundred, like two it was

593
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: basically twenty five hundred. Basically twenty five hundred of those

594
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: cases were deemed total fucking bullshit and bullshit and.

595
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: Just giving him the giving him like the max for

596
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 3: little shit. And these are like sixteen year old kids.

597
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 5: And there's this one we watched this YouTube video, this

598
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 5: of one of the mothers.

599
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: Once.

600
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: Once this judge was convicted, he got twenty eight years

601
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 2: in prison, which honestly, he deserved this death penalty.

602
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Like.

603
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: You don't have to think people you don't have, but

604
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: I just think it's so funny, Like the death penalty

605
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: is always regarded with people that are like who kill

606
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 2: people or like rapist, but there's other ways you can

607
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 2: fuck someone's life up like this. This woman, like she

608
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 2: was screaming at the top of her loves and like

609
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: literally brought tears to my heart thinking about my child.

610
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 5: And she was like, you do you remember me? Do

611
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 5: you remember me?

612
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: Do you remember my son?

613
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: Remember my son? He was a star like wrestler. Well

614
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: he's dead now.

615
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 5: He shot himself in the heart because he was never

616
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 5: the same after he came out of that place.

617
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: I'd lame him.

618
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 2: He's like, you know, yeah, And he was regarded and

619
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 2: praised for being tough on crime with teenagers and so

620
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: and would speak at colleges about it, like how he

621
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 2: was so tough, but really he was.

622
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 5: Tough because he was getting money, of course, And it's

623
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 5: just like.

624
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: How he wasn't being tough, he was being cruel. That's

625
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: cruel on a different level. And I was trying to

626
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: find research, like what I really want to know?

627
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure I know the answer, unfortunately, but like,

628
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 2: what who is war targeted?

629
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: In his in that courtroom with him statistics us.

630
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's just like I couldn't And that's just

631
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: one guy that got caught, right, That is the point.

632
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: That's the thing.

633
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 4: Imagine how many thousands upon thousands upon thousands of children

634
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 4: and adults who are being railroaded, but it doesn't make

635
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 4: it to the.

636
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: News because and a lot of times unfortunately.

637
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 3: There's domestic terrorism, yes, yes, and they all have their

638
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: hands in the pot.

639
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: And it's like, my biggest thing is like I'm such.

640
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: An EmPATH, Like how the fuck does money dictate your

641
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: morality on this level? You don't have morality, How the

642
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 3: fuck do you look yourself in the mirror at night?

643
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 3: Like and I'm sure that guy had kids. I'm sure

644
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 3: he had you know, Like it's just it's that's.

645
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 4: A compartmentalized It's like they're not my kids, not my

646
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 4: cognitive dissonance. It's like you can't connect with something that's

647
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 4: not happening directly specifically to you.

648
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: It's insane, it's so crazy.

649
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: But so with your work that you did in this

650
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: in this one year that you were there.

651
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 5: I mean, how what was like, what was your first day?

652
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: Like?

653
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: My first day was I mean absolute terror, not for

654
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 2: my safety, but terror as an educator, Like I know,

655
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 2: I'm going to suck.

656
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: These kids are going to see right through it. You know.

657
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's long a lot of hours to be in

658
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 3: a group of twenty five teenage are you killing me?

659
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 4: Like hormonal boys who are like in jail. It was

660
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 4: crazy respect.

661
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: I'm sure that disrespect so I know they were.

662
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, so they were using that kind of shit.

663
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 4: So I had to I had to like manage that

664
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 4: in the classroom. But you know, I think part of

665
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 4: the reason why I was able to wield so much

666
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 4: respect in the classroom, and and I'm really proud to

667
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 4: say that throughout the entire year that I was there,

668
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 4: I never had any kids pop off in my classroom.

669
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 4: Pop off me, I'm using their slang. I didn't have

670
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 4: any fights in my classroom. You know, they didn't fight,

671
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 4: and which was common. I mean, you know, you get

672
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 4: the next classroom, it was like that's fighting, Like, oh shit,

673
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 4: you know, they popping.

674
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 5: Off from the next classroom. They never popped off from

675
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 5: my classroom.

676
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 4: I think part of it was because, you know, I

677
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 4: kept a high standard and I did a lot of

678
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 4: things in my classroom. I made sure the desks were

679
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 4: always neat. I was like, I want my rods, keep

680
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 4: it neat.

681
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: You know.

682
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 4: I had a room with therapy, so I had like

683
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 4: I put you know, frankincense oil on the desk when

684
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 4: they came in, and I wanted to smell a certain way,

685
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 4: so just to kind of take them out of that

686
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 4: jail setting, do you know what I mean, Just even

687
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 4: if it's just by the by.

688
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 5: The smell of the row, you know, having to be clean.

689
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 4: It wasn't like mumbo jumble, all desk all around, like, no,

690
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 4: we're gonna have order, you know. And at first they

691
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 4: were like miss this jail, And of course there was

692
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 4: some pushback, but I was like, no, give me my rose.

693
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 5: I want to because I'm walking up and down the roads.

694
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 5: I'm not sitting at my desk.

695
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: I'm walking up and down the roads.

696
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 4: I'm making sure that I'm engaging and I'm keeping the

697
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 4: standard high.

698
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm expecting you to do work. I'm asking

699
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 2: you for a five paragraph essay.

700
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 4: If you give me three, good, if you give me one, okay,

701
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 4: But I'm gonna ask for five, do.

702
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

703
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 4: And I also I really really really made sure that

704
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 4: there was always a cultural perspective. I always made them

705
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 4: learn about who they were as young African American men

706
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 4: in America and their African lineage in history. So when

707
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 4: they looked on the wall, there were pictures of ancient

708
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 4: Kimmy is the African name for Egypt. So they were

709
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 4: they were looking at, you know, old pictures of ancestors

710
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 4: of Malcolm X, of Martin, of you know, Marcus Garvey,

711
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 4: of ancient you know, kings and queens from antiquity.

712
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: So I had these pictures on the.

713
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 4: Wall and so they were like, oh, you know, Miss

714
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 4: Peace on that on that black shit.

715
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm on that black suit. But they appreciated it.

716
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 2: So because when I taught those lessons about the Black Panthers, they.

717
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 4: Would each other because they wanted to hear that. So

718
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 4: I'm not giving you the old and you know, no disrespect.

719
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 4: You know, our whole all of right history, the fact

720
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 4: that we are like the most amazing people on this planet,

721
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 4: what we endured and what we suffered, and what we

722
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 4: have and what we have survived and thrived through. So

723
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 4: I didn't start with you know Rosa Parks and start

724
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 4: with and and and and and and listen, salute to

725
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 4: Rosa did no disrespect.

726
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: But these are young African American boys sixteen seventeen eighteen.

727
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 2: So I had to meet them where they were. So

728
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: I started with some gangster ship. I started with the

729
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 2: Black Panthers and how they carried you know, their their

730
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: rifles and right and they exercised their Second Amendment rights.

731
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 4: So it just to kind of get them to listen,

732
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 4: to listen, and something that would capture their imagination right away.

733
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 5: And they were like, oh really, I was like yeah,

734
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 5: So they wanted to.

735
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: Learn more about that. They didn't know about Malcolm X.

736
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: They didn't know that he went to prison.

737
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 3: So like his same man sitting in this very exact

738
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 3: and you can from he you can go this way,

739
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 3: you can go this way, but this is not the

740
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 3: end of your story, and this is not defying you.

741
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 4: So I started so that you know, talking about that

742
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 4: and Fred Hampton and like some of them like our

743
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 4: real you know, like you know, real revolutionaries you know

744
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 4: in our history that they could relate to.

745
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 5: Immediately, that kind of it raised.

746
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 4: The respect level because they were like, oh, she's given

747
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 4: us something that we're not going to get or we

748
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 4: haven't gotten.

749
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 5: Oh, this is about me. Oh, I'm like malcome, Oh, I'm.

750
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: Like Fred Hampton.

751
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 5: Oh do you know what I mean?

752
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: Oh that's some gangster ship.

753
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 5: Yeah. And so they knew that.

754
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 4: I was really committed to teaching them things that they

755
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 4: weren't getting or haven't gotten.

756
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 5: And so that raised the respect level. I think not,

757
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 5: I think I know it did.

758
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: And so my classroom was you know, real like African.

759
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 5: Was it all black boys or was there any Was

760
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 5: there any Hispanics?

761
00:35:59,600 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: There was?

762
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 5: It was primarily black.

763
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 4: Uh, there were I did have some uh one kid

764
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 4: they called Mexico. I had some some uh you know,

765
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 4: Puerto Rican and Mexican.

766
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 5: Not so many Mexican. And it was like one or

767
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 5: two in New York. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, Puerto

768
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 5: Rican and Dominican.

769
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 4: And there was during the year that I was there,

770
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 4: I had two white boys just too, just too And.

771
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: How did they take to your lessons?

772
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 5: One was really.

773
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 4: Quiet, he was really traumatized. So he was a writer, yeah,

774
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 4: because he was you know, he was in.

775
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: The slave ship. So white boy in the slaves exactly exactly.

776
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 1: That really interesting analogy.

777
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 4: And so he was disoriented, and I just I gave

778
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 4: him a notebook and I just had him writing.

779
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 5: He wrote some really powerful poetry.

780
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: So that's for me.

781
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 4: That was my way of connecting, knowing I was connecting

782
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,879
Speaker 4: and keeping him okay, keeping him okay at least while

783
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 4: he was in my classroom.

784
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: I didn't. I couldn't.

785
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 4: I couldn't protect him when he left the classroom. But

786
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 4: I was like, Okay, you're in my classroom. Everybody here,

787
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 4: I'm gonna tap into what I see is their potential

788
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 4: in their light. And this this white kid, he could write.

789
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 4: So while you're in my classroom, I just want you

790
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 4: to write. That's it, because that's gonna help you get

791
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 4: therapeutic and help you deal and help you kind of

792
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 4: navigate and kind of download what you're experiencing.

793
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 5: And he wrote some powerful shit.

794
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: I put one of his poems in my books.

795
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 3: Oh damn, I gotta look at them.

796
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: So in our research, not in our research, but we talked, okay.

797
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 3: So I don't know if you guys are familiar with

798
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 3: Khalif Broader Prouder, who was that Wrikers. I know you

799
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 3: didn't know him or didn't teach him, but he got

800
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 3: arrested when he was sixteen. There's a jay Z did

801
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 3: the documentary also on Netflix about him, The Klief Broader Story.

802
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

803
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 3: Sometimes, you guys, my angry black woman inside of me,

804
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 3: I really pick and choose when I I can partake,

805
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 3: and so.

806
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 5: You have to because self care because we don't. Yeah,

807
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 5: it's definitely.

808
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 3: Sometimes I feel sad that sometimes I know I'm I

809
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: avoids it because I can be angry.

810
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 2: For like someone else to Actually, Sebastian came over two

811
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 2: days ago. I was like, have you seen the R

812
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: Kelly document that R Kelly thing? And I was like no,

813
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: He's like, you have to watch it. You have to

814
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 2: watch it, And I was like, honestly, like.

815
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: I don't think.

816
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: I don't have to watch it, Like I know I've

817
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 2: heard enough. I thought, I already know he's fucked up.

818
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: I've been known he's fucked up, So I just don't

819
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 2: need more than Like it's just there's already so much

820
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: negativity surrounding black people.

821
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: Women, all those things.

822
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: Like I was like, I'm cool, Like I told him,

823
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 2: I was like, I've I've seen enough ship that I

824
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: don't need that to like also make me angry.

825
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,959
Speaker 3: But even that like watching that I could watch because

826
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 3: I was like mostly shocked.

827
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: But it's different like.

828
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 3: Watching the Twelve Years of Slave or like, you know

829
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 3: what I mean, these are things that like he chose

830
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 3: to be a weird I mean, like he didn't choose

831
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 3: I know he had a fucked up childhood, and which

832
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 3: is you know, people don't I don't. I told say this,

833
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 3: but don't address people don't address that, and that's how

834
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 3: I feel a lot about it.

835
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 4: But they did address it in the documentary I think

836
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 4: the brother talked about.

837
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 3: But what I mean like like the media doesn't address

838
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 3: that he needed help.

839
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: That he needed help.

840
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 5: Of course, I'm not saying that he's excusified in what

841
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 5: he did, but people never talk about why these.

842
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 1: People are the way they are.

843
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 2: They just demonize them and throw them away, and which

844
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 2: you know that doesn't result.

845
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: He deserves whatever is coming to him. But I heard

846
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: people hurt people.

847
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 5: But when you hurt people, you have to be held accountable.

848
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 1: Exactly absolutely.

849
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 2: So that's why it's so difficult to talk about because

850
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 2: like you don't want to sound like you're supporting what

851
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 2: he did, you also don't want but you also need

852
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: people to understand that, like where like a child wants.

853
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 3: To and whatever he experienced led to this this person,

854
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 3: he's become this kind of monstrous persona.

855
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: But back to khalif Is, you're saying you haven't watched it,

856
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: probably because yeah, I not. Yeah, I get I get it,

857
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: gets it gets to me.

858
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 2: And you got to know your threshold because self care

859
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 2: is a revolutionary act.

860
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, and we have to stay charged up, We have

861
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 5: to stay.

862
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: That's why I like that download. I like that as

863
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: a term downloading your feelings.

864
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 3: But he went to Jill at sixteen for supposedly allegedly

865
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 3: stealing a backpack that he did not steal, and he

866
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 3: was there without a trial because he refused to plead guilty,

867
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 3: which in a lot of this, like the judge, like

868
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: the judicial system.

869
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: People mostly minorities go there.

870
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: They get pressured into pleading guilty because the thought of

871
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 3: having to stay their longer to await trial is daunting. Anyway,

872
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: for two of the three years he was there, he

873
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 3: was in solitary confinement at sixteen years old, which at

874
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 3: any age I couldn't have imagined that. And he discusses

875
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 3: like mice running up on I'm not being built outside,

876
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 3: being starved for days and I was beat up by

877
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 3: the prisoners. It's on camera, beat up by the prisoners.

878
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: And yeah, and what.

879
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 3: I was gonna ask you? So you see, you get

880
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 3: twenty five students. I don't know how they chose get

881
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 3: chosen to come to your class every day where there's

882
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 3: any point in your experience where somebody didn't show up

883
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 3: for like, for instance, if maybe he was supposed to

884
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 3: be your student and he didn't show up for two years?

885
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: Like is anyone questioning these?

886
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 2: Like because because when I was there, and today solitary

887
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 2: confinement has been has been eliminated for adolescents.

888
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: That's recent recently, that's recent.

889
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 4: But when I was teaching and from two thousand and nine,

890
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 4: they were still solitary confinement, which on right Becau's Island

891
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 4: is called the bing so and also to because I

892
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 4: were in a jail, which is different from a prison.

893
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 4: In jail is where you're you haven't been sentenced, and

894
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 4: if you have been sentenced, it's under two years. So

895
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 4: I had some kids who were sentenced for under two years,

896
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 4: but the majority were not sentenced, so they were just

897
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 4: awaiting sentencing or they were going back and forth, you know,

898
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 4: to court to see what was going to happen, so

899
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 4: their fate was still dangling, as opposed to prison, where

900
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 4: you've been sentenced, you know what, you're serving five years,

901
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 4: six years, two years, whatever, you know where that is.

902
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 5: So jail there's a lot of limbo and there's.

903
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 4: A lot of anxiety because you don't know what's going

904
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 4: to happen to your life. And the kids who were

905
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 4: sentenced were a little bit calmer because they knew at

906
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 4: least it's like, okay, I'm looking at fifteen months.

907
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 5: Do you know what I mean?

908
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,439
Speaker 4: So there was that resolve, but most of the kids

909
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 4: were not. So as a result, there were some kids

910
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 4: who I didn't see for periods of time because they

911
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 4: were in the bing and they would come back and

912
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 4: be like, yeah, I just did you know ninety days

913
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 4: in the bang or sixty days in the ban meaning

914
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 4: solitary confinement. Sometimes they got moved to different housing areas,

915
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 4: so I might see a kid who left, or a

916
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 4: kid might have a court date and then he got

917
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 4: sentenced and they ship them upstates, so.

918
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: You never seen so I never seen him again. Good

919
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: byes exactly. You don't know what happened to them, how

920
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 1: to get in contact with them, exactly.

921
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 4: So there's so in jail, there's a lot of there's

922
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 4: a transient population, so it's not steady. So my classroom,

923
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 4: my you know, was it was constantly shifting. So I

924
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 4: had a core group, but it was constantly shifting court dates.

925
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,760
Speaker 4: Some got shipped up state, you know, some got released,

926
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 4: you know, when they went the next court date, they

927
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 4: went home and somewhere in the ban solitary confinement. So

928
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 4: there was a lot of that, which made it even

929
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 4: more challenging because I had a new kid.

930
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: I got to I'm doing it. I'm in the middle

931
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: of a lesson. I've got to bring him up to speed,

932
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: you know.

933
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 5: So it was challenging.

934
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 2: What I mean when I was reading about because I

935
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 2: was like, I was trying to educate myself on I

936
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: kind of knew the difference between jail versus prison versus

937
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 2: privately owned prison. And I read something that said that basically,

938
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: jail sometimes their facilities are not kept up because there

939
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 2: is such a transient like people.

940
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: Are in and out.

941
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 5: There's not there's not like this need to house someone.

942
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: And jail's are a city run so so you're going

943
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,919
Speaker 1: to the sea e. Jails prisons are primarily state run.

944
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 5: So there's regulations and laws.

945
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 4: I don't know if there's regulations of laws, but it's

946
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 4: sometimes it's just more more money.

947
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, they don't have any money.

948
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: That's what I was reading. Like jails or a lot

949
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 2: of jails are very upkeep, is very poor. So like

950
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: what was er?

951
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: What is like?

952
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: What does he walk us through? What Riker's Island is like?

953
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 2: Is it?

954
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: Is it like dingy?

955
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it was well, I mean for a prison, yeah,

956
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 2: for jail, it's it really smelled bad.

957
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 4: And the reason why it smelled bad because it the

958
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 4: island was is.

959
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: Literally on like garbage, like a land massive garbage. Yeah,

960
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: so that the land fell exactly, thank you.

961
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: That was what I was looking for.

962
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 4: So sometimes I was coming over the bridge to it's

963
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 4: very toxic. I developed a crazy cough when I was

964
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 4: there for that year. And so sometimes all the garbage,

965
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 4: like the garbage will kind of I emit like kind

966
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 4: of like the the land will fart, so you literally smell.

967
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 4: I would be on the bus and I'd be like, Yo,

968
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 4: who the fuck this farting? And then I realized, oh,

969
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 4: it's the land mask that the landfill. Excuse me, that

970
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 4: it smelled like rotten eggs. So you get like this,

971
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 4: this smell of rotten eggs. So that's what the jail

972
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 4: was sitting on.

973
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: Mm. Yeah.

974
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 2: But in terms of like the the physical, you know

975
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,959
Speaker 2: it it was you know, they mobbed and they it.

976
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 5: Was just dingy.

977
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't a bright place, but it wasn't decrepit.

978
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: In your experience working with the kids there, did you

979
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: have any I mean, did you have any moments where

980
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 2: I mean, especially because working.

981
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: In prison was so new, is newer to you, was

982
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:51,919
Speaker 1: newer to you at the time.

983
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 2: Was there any experience where you medic uh uh a

984
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 2: boy or a young man and found out what his

985
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: charges were, what he was going up against and was

986
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:03,479
Speaker 2: like a pall?

987
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 1: Is that?

988
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 5: Was that something like a daily thing for you? Like

989
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 5: you're here for what?

990
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 2: Or did you ever get riled up and feel like,

991
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like I feel like if I

992
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 2: was there, I'd be like how can I help? I

993
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: got to like, you know, you try to be your

994
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 2: own activist within there, But like then you kind of

995
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 2: I'm sure you at some point you feel defeated because

996
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 2: there's such a big system in place that you kind

997
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 2: of you're not going to win. But like, was there

998
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: any moment or any time or different like situation, Yeah,

999
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 2: with like different kids throughout your time there that.

1000
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 3: Like, what's the most ridiculous thing you've heard someone being

1001
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 3: there for? I mean obviously, like there's something like fucking

1002
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 3: allegedly stealing a fucking backpack, you said, in solidary confinement

1003
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 3: for two years or three years, I'm sure you've heard.

1004
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:40,879
Speaker 1: Crazy shit too.

1005
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, a kid who jumped a turnstile, and so if

1006
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 4: you jumped the turnstyle and okay, jump in the subway

1007
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 4: and so, or like loitering or riding your.

1008
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: Bike on the sidewalk, the things that were in jail for.

1009
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 4: So let's say you have to pay a fine for that, right,

1010
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 4: you don't pay a fine. Now you don't pay the fine,

1011
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 4: So now you have to you know, you have to

1012
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 4: show up in court and either you know, saying I'm

1013
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 4: gonna pay the fine or not payd fine that if

1014
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 4: you don't go to court, you don't show up to

1015
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 4: court for let's say riding your bike on the sidewalk,

1016
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 4: Now you have a warrant out for missing that court sea.

1017
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 4: So now I jumped the turnstile, and now I have

1018
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 4: a warrant out, So now I go to jail because

1019
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 4: I didn't go to court for a riding my bike

1020
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 4: on the sidewalk and I jumped the turnstile.

1021
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 1: Now there's a warrant out, So now I'm gonna.

1022
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 5: Sit in jail.

1023
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 3: And possibly you're sixteen, and maybe your mom's not always

1024
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 3: president doesn't know this happened, and so no one's even

1025
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 3: staying in your ass to remind you to go to court,

1026
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 3: which can very well happen to any teens.

1027
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:44,919
Speaker 1: Are you're scared? Are you going to tell your fucking

1028
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:45,759
Speaker 1: mom she does you don't?

1029
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm going to court for little fine,

1030
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 2: you know, but sixteen, sixteen years old, you're not. You're

1031
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: a child, right, you're not thinking, you're not taking the

1032
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 2: court seriously or like court date seriously, because you were

1033
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 2: like why am I even why they even fucking with

1034
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: me for riding on the sidewalk in the project where

1035
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 2: I live.

1036
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 5: You know what I mean, I've rid on I've been

1037
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 5: riding on this sidewalk right my.

1038
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 4: Life, right, I'm riding in the courtyard of the housing project.

1039
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 4: Get out of here, and they do you know, the

1040
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 4: ticket out?

1041
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 5: Like you know what I mean? This picture.

1042
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 1: Now I gotta go to school.

1043
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 4: I don't have my my fare or whatever. I'm gonna

1044
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 4: go see my shorty. I don't have two seventy five.

1045
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 4: But jump to turnstile, commun kid and they run. I did, Oh,

1046
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 4: you gotta warn out. You just show the court up.

1047
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 4: Now you're going to book And in my class.

1048
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: New York Police are like my least favorite police.

1049
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 3: Like every time I go, I'm like, they're always like

1050
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 3: overweight and sloppy and walking.

1051
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 1: Fuck hired you You couldn't chase after me if you tried.

1052
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: They just have a New.

1053
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 5: York give them the power.

1054
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: Literally, I mean, yeah.

1055
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 5: That's ridiculous. I mean I think about my child and

1056
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 5: thinking about.

1057
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: Like how thinking about her?

1058
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 5: I mean because I know there is a female population

1059
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 5: at Writers.

1060
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, And I work with the girls at rosem

1061
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 4: Singer which is the female Poppy, which is the female

1062
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 4: facility at Write because I'm a rhythm singer, And I

1063
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 4: work with the adolescent girls when I'm not in that

1064
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 4: not as a full time school teacher, but I worked

1065
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 4: with them when I was a re entry specialist, so

1066
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 4: I was working with an organization that worked with kids

1067
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 4: once they came home from jail. To help them not recitivate,

1068
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 4: not go back to jail. And so part of that

1069
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 4: meant going to the jail to talk to them, do workshops,

1070
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 4: create a relationship with them, right, and to let them

1071
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 4: know about the services available to them once they come home.

1072
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 4: So when they come home, they come to get linked

1073
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 4: up with the program that helps them, you know, kind

1074
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 4: of re back into school, back into the community, so

1075
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 4: help prevent them to come back to jail.

1076
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 5: So when I was a reentry specialist, I went to

1077
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 5: ROSEM Singer.

1078
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: I worked with the teenage.

1079
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 5: Girls and they were firecrackers. Them girls are firecrackers.

1080
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 1: So are they isolated from like all male like I know, like.

1081
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 2: ROSEM Singer is a totally different building, so meaning the

1082
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 2: women that the adult women and the adolescent girls are

1083
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 2: in the same building, which.

1084
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 5: Is a so So Ryker's Island has a bunch.

1085
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 4: Of different buildings, right, So when you go into the island,

1086
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 4: I think there are like eleven different facilities, separate buildings.

1087
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 4: Bust to this building, bust to that building, busted that

1088
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 4: building out of all I think it was, I think

1089
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 4: it's eleven buildings. There's one building that's just for women

1090
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 4: and they keep in that building.

1091
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 2: They keep the girls separate from the adults.

1092
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: Right, but some of the correction officers are still male.

1093
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, ok, yeah, yeah yeah. Was there a difference

1094
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: in interacting with the young women.

1095
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 4: Yes, Oh my god. I love the girls. They're chatty caddies. Yeah,

1096
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 4: very emotional. They cry a lot, you know, because they're

1097
00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1098
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 5: What it is about women. I guess it's socialization.

1099
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 2: But you know, we're able and more you know, uh,

1100
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: nimble with talking about our emotions and talking about what

1101
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 2: has happened to us as opposed in terms of our

1102
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 2: pain to be tough exact, don't talk not that that

1103
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: didn't happen. I had, I have, you know, had a

1104
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 2: lot of male tears, young boy tears in my years

1105
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 2: of working at Wrikers. But the girls, you know, I

1106
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 2: had to keep tissues because it was you know, I

1107
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: was constantly big system.

1108
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 5: I'm just crying on my shoulder, clying.

1109
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: On my shoulder, you know, all the time. And and

1110
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: how does that affect you?

1111
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: Did you did you have to make a conscious effort

1112
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 2: to not get emotional with them or were you were

1113
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 2: there ever moments where you kind of broke down with

1114
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 2: them or but yeah, it's it's you have to kind

1115
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 2: of create a boundary. You have to have some sort

1116
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 2: of boundaries. I would assume, yeah, it's it's.

1117
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 4: It was a real fine balance because I'm an EmPATH too,

1118
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 4: so just malibray and so I would absorb, you know,

1119
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,399
Speaker 4: I absorb their their their emotion and their feelings and

1120
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 4: what they're what they're dealing with and and their trauma.

1121
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 4: So I had to learn how to manage the trauma

1122
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:15,720
Speaker 4: that I was, you know, trying to heal and absorb.

1123
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 5: And so yeah, I I would I wouldn't get emotional.

1124
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: I was very I didn't want to lean and I

1125
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 2: didn't want to encourage their woundology.

1126
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 1: So it was it was a real tricky balance.

1127
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 5: Wog So, woundology is.

1128
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 4: A term that I learned from one of my mentors,

1129
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 4: Renee Wilson, who was a clinical psychologist who was.

1130
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 1: Out there Black Woman's he was fierce at ROSEM.

1131
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 5: Singer.

1132
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 2: But woondology basically means that if we all have wounds,

1133
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 2: We've all been wounded in our lives at at at

1134
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: some point, right what a whether it's family, whether it's

1135
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 2: you know, some trauma, something, we we all have a

1136
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 2: wound that we carry and these girls at wrikers, they

1137
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 2: are wounded, and so sometimes means you just talk about

1138
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 2: your wound, and you identify with your wound, and your

1139
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 2: wound becomes your identity.

1140
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: So it's always about.

1141
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 5: Your wounds, your wounds, your wound, your wound.

1142
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 4: And so it's necessary to talk about your wound because

1143
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:12,879
Speaker 4: you have to give an air for it to heal.

1144
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 2: But when it becomes your right, when it becomes your

1145
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 2: your your your total identity and who you are and

1146
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 2: your censor.

1147
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 4: So I had so my job was to listen for

1148
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 4: them to air the wound, but not to let them

1149
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 4: languish in the woundology and say, okay, well, look at

1150
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 4: what you survived, look at who you are, look at

1151
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 4: how far you've come, Look how strong you are.

1152
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 5: What do you want to do? Who do you want

1153
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 5: to be? Who do you see yourself as you know

1154
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 5: and time?

1155
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 4: And to get them to see their strength and their

1156
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 4: purpose and their vision beyond the wound. So it's a

1157
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 4: balancing act because it's not about ignoring or disregarding the wound,

1158
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 4: but it's not At the same time, I didn't want

1159
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 4: them to languish in it and identify themselves.

1160
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: As wounded people.

1161
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 2: I mean, shit, that that whole concept today. It's not

1162
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 2: exclusive to people incarcerated.

1163
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: Absolutely or for just teenagers absolutely right.

1164
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 2: I mean, just thinking and talking about that reminds me

1165
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 2: of someone very close to me my life who is

1166
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 2: definitely identifies themselves by their wound.

1167
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: And I like that word so much better than what

1168
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: is it? Like victimize or No? It is that the

1169
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: same word like victim when you VI victim all the time? Yeah?

1170
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 1: I like, but I like because I think that playing.

1171
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 3: Victim kind of takes away from whatever the wound is,

1172
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 3: and saying victim kind of leaves.

1173
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 2: You like and victim gives I think more power to

1174
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 2: the person who victimized with the wound is.

1175
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 3: Like and now I'm sort of separate from that that

1176
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 3: from that person, and now I'm going to heal whatever

1177
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 3: the woman is.

1178
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: Was it ever, like I'm sure?

1179
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 2: Like, like I asked you before I started recording, like,

1180
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 2: how did you, like, so, how do you separate work

1181
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: from your personal like?

1182
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: Bec was there ever a time or many time? I'm sure?

1183
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 2: I mean I would imagine that you come home after

1184
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 2: like a heavy day at work and you have to

1185
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 2: just unload, Like, was there anything in particular, like, was

1186
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 2: there any one experience in particular that kind of has

1187
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 2: always stayed with you.

1188
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 1: Or that like kind of surprised you, or.

1189
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 5: A relationship that maybe you developed with one of your

1190
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 5: students that you know, maybe well.

1191
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 4: What self well, self care for me was really challenging

1192
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 4: because I'm an EmPATH and because I'm a healer, so

1193
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 4: it's my nature to to.

1194
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 5: Absorb and to listen and to want to heal and nurture.

1195
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 5: So I'm a I'm a nurturer by nature, which.

1196
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: Is a cancer undertones in there.

1197
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 4: I I I I I have a Gemini moon cancer rising.

1198
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: Oh God, that's how it get along.

1199
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 4: While yes, yeah, you have some libra with a cant moon.

1200
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 4: I mean, excuse me, a Gemini moon canto rise. And

1201
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 4: I think I'm a liver rising. Oh I think we

1202
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:55,359
Speaker 4: talked about this.

1203
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. So so because I'm a nurturer, uh, it's

1204
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 5: very difficult for me.

1205
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 4: To It's very easy for me to give, give, give

1206
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 4: to nurture, nurture, nurtures. So even though I don't have

1207
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 4: children of my own that came from my womb, I

1208
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 4: was it was like my you know, I was constantly

1209
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 4: full and just like feeding feeding, feeding, nurturing, nurturing, nurturing

1210
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 4: other people's children standing in the gap for their mothers,

1211
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 4: and their mothers couldn't be there, so.

1212
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 5: That self care was difficult for me.

1213
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 4: So, you know, like weed and red wine and I,

1214
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 4: you know, I self medicated, which I smoke.

1215
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 8: Huh No, I don't smoke anymore, but but yeah, you know, exercise,

1216
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 8: going to the gym, talking to my girlfriends, you know.

1217
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 4: Journaling, yep, yep. That was kind of my way. I

1218
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 4: just kind of figured it out on my own. And

1219
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 4: I wasn't necessarily sick. That'sful at it because I was

1220
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 4: depressed a lot during a lot.

1221
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.

1222
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 4: It was heavy. I carried it with me and I

1223
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 4: thought about them. I took the work home with me.

1224
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: You know, how can you not? How can you not?

1225
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 3: You know, that's I I can't imagine not thinking about

1226
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 3: those like going home, going home, and you're like, damn,

1227
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 3: I got to leave you here, I got to leave

1228
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 3: this here.

1229
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: You know, you're going home and who knows what you're

1230
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: facing when you go back to yourself. You know.

1231
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of you, like did you never want kids

1232
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 3: or do you think this experience taking on all these

1233
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 3: young children, like young kids. Did that influence how you

1234
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 3: like you wanting to.

1235
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: Have kids at all?

1236
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 3: No?

1237
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 4: No, you know, the the mother and me, you know,

1238
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 4: they're they're different forms of motherhood. You know, you can

1239
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 4: be a mother physically and give birth you know, from

1240
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 4: your womb and be a mother, and you can also

1241
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 4: be a mother a spiritual mother.

1242
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: And so I've been.

1243
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 2: A spiritual mother to hundreds of children of young people.

1244
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 2: And you know, for me that I took that shit

1245
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 2: really seriously, like, you know, going to court when I

1246
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 2: wasn't in that capacity, but when I was a re

1247
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 2: entry specialist, you know, I was doing shit like going

1248
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 2: to court every court date for some of my kids.

1249
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 5: And I called it my kids, like.

1250
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 2: Showing up sitting in the courtroom all day, talking to

1251
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 2: the judge, advocating on their behalf, setting up meetings with

1252
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 2: the fucking DA to talk to the DA to human

1253
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 2: to humanize the kid that I'm advocating to statistics Exactmber. Yeah,

1254
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, who sits in the courtroom and

1255
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 2: shows up to court all day like my mother exactly.

1256
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 2: So I've been a mom to a lot of a

1257
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 2: lot of these kids.

1258
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 1: I salute you for that and I appreciate that.

1259
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 3: You know, like so many kids get lost in the system,

1260
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 3: and so many kids parents aren't educated enough to assist

1261
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 3: or not.

1262
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 4: You know, there's just so much and you know, take

1263
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 4: off to sit in the courtroom because they got to

1264
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 4: feed the kids.

1265
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 5: The other kids.

1266
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, you know what I mean, this lawyer all right,

1267
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 9: And it's funny that you that you said that, because

1268
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 9: we had another friend who's the author also, Nicole Russell

1269
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 9: Russell who was on a previous episode, and she's she's

1270
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 9: Erica's Frent's abound, the same age as us, and I'm

1271
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 9: sure it's like so, you know, as women in general,

1272
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 9: there's this bullshit like.

1273
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: Why aren't you any kids yet? I alren't you have

1274
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: any kid yet?

1275
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 3: Like that's our only fucking duty in life is like

1276
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 3: give lay down and give birth.

1277
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 1: And she was saying the same thing, you know.

1278
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 3: She she also is a part of a nonprofit that

1279
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 3: focuses on the youth, and she's like, I consciously made

1280
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 3: the decision that I'm going to give my mother into

1281
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 3: the kids who need it, who don't have it or

1282
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 3: you know, and so that's that's a huge, huge thing.

1283
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 3: You know that it's obviously needed in society. So that's

1284
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 3: I commend you for, you know, your active duty contributing

1285
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 3: to those those souls and those people.

1286
00:59:57,880 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 4: My life is still being curated, so who knows what

1287
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 4: God hasn't planned, do you know what I'm saying.

1288
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, where'd you have kids? Would?

1289
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 2: I yeah, I would if if if it was the

1290
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 2: right situation.

1291
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, you know, partner, that's that's important for me. Yeah,

1292
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I mean, you know, you know.

1293
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 4: Man, life is so interesting, and life is so complex

1294
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 4: and layered, and I've always been a woman who's lived

1295
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 4: outside of the box, outside of the norm, outside of

1296
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 4: social you know, tradition, traditions. My entire life, I mean,

1297
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 4: you know, taking my plane thirty five different prisons and

1298
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 4: working in prison for twenty years and being a you know,

1299
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 4: a model on living in Paris and traveling world and

1300
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 4: going to Africa and Asia and India.

1301
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: I mean, my life has been you know, full, and

1302
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: I'm still curating it. Yeah.

1303
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:02,080
Speaker 4: So I mean, I don't know what this next chapter

1304
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 4: that how my life is going to be curated, but

1305
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 4: I know that it's going to be a typical and it's.

1306
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 5: Not going to follow the norms of you.

1307
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 2: Know what society says women should do and listen, I

1308
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 2: don't you know, I'm curating my life and God, I said, no,

1309
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 2: let me take the back.

1310
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: God is curating my life.

1311
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 4: I'm just listening. I'm just a museum. God is saying, Okay,

1312
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 4: now it's time for this painting. And now we're going

1313
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 4: to have this sculpture. And so who knows what will

1314
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 4: be presented in my life, but I'm open to all

1315
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 4: kinds of possibilities. You know, I may meet a man

1316
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 4: who already has children or right, you know, me who.

1317
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 3: Fucking knows most beautiful part about life? Though it is

1318
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 3: like everything is so intentional and so random, but intentional

1319
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 3: and perfect, like just like us having this conversation. I

1320
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 3: was like, when I was like fifteen, I saw your

1321
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 3: show and I was moved by it then but obviously

1322
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 3: did take it seriously then, even though I had intention to,

1323
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 3: and I said, like eight years ago, I'm going to

1324
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 3: do this class and then now right here, right now,

1325
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 3: you know you're here in LA and I got to

1326
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 3: see your show again last year and it's just so

1327
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 3: intentional and even though that plantedacy safeteen yeah, right, and

1328
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 3: it took this long to cultivate or you know, like

1329
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 3: or just meeting I mean meeting Erica.

1330
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 1: I'm finding those.

1331
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 3: Friends and I live in La so it's not like

1332
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 3: some distant foreign thing.

1333
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: But it's just so.

1334
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 3: Perfect how things are aligned for you and even you

1335
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 3: being here and you've been always who you are, and

1336
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 3: it's very out of the box, very this is who

1337
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 3: the fuck I am and I don't have to go

1338
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 3: any certain path and even as starting this podcast, that

1339
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 3: is very much birthed in that we don't have to

1340
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 3: be a certain type.

1341
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 1: Of mother and we can still be good moms. So

1342
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: it's so lovely to just like, you know.

1343
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 3: Have a tribe here, find your tribe and they gravitate

1344
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 3: towards you and it blossoms Viti Fla.

1345
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 1: That's so true. Do you have any more questions on

1346
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: your No? Mine are. I wanted to tell what happened

1347
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 1: to him, but I really have to pee. Can we

1348
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: pause for two seconds?

1349
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 9: Yes?

1350
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 1: Six? Okay, Sorry, I'm bad, it's a very small bladder.

1351
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 2: Well, I was asking these are before our break or

1352
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 2: during our break? If she has had any if she

1353
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 2: kept in contact with any of her students, and you know,

1354
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 2: what are some of the successes that have come out

1355
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 2: of your your journey and experience at Riker's Island, because

1356
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 2: I mean, we could talk about the darkness and the

1357
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 2: negativity all day, but I think there needs to like

1358
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 2: we need to shed some light on like some of

1359
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 2: the things that the positive things that you know have happened.

1360
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 5: So can you share anything, like, Yeah.

1361
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 2: I had one of my uh students, he got out,

1362
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 2: he went upstate. He got out and he got his

1363
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 2: associate's degree and now he's in college in Georgia.

1364
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 5: I think he's going to Georgia State University. So they

1365
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 5: are I mean, there are a lot of success stories.

1366
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 5: And you know, even though it's a.

1367
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 4: Dark place, there was a lot of light in that

1368
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 4: dark place. I mean, my students were hilarious. They were funny,

1369
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 4: they were vibrant. They weren't you know.

1370
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 2: Sad and and and dejected and demoralized.

1371
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: They were.

1372
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 4: So there's a resiliency with with youth, and they brought

1373
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 4: that to the classroom. They were you know, and there

1374
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 4: were moments when you saw that they were depressed and

1375
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 4: they were heavy, and you know, I let 'em sit

1376
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 4: and sleep in the classroom in the back. But for

1377
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 4: the most part, they were just normal adolescent. You know,

1378
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 4: I called 'em my rug rats cause they were just

1379
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 4: like little gremlins. Is y, you know, high off of sugar?

1380
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:00,919
Speaker 1: Right?

1381
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 2: And Jamila, you know, she had asked me today when

1382
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 2: we were, you know, getting ready for you to come,

1383
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 2: how you know, speaking about like, you know, police brutality

1384
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 2: and engagement with police officers in this very like high

1385
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 2: tension time.

1386
01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: How how she said.

1387
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 2: If you had a boy, how would you you know,

1388
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 2: talk to him about law enforcement? Like what do you

1389
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 2: do if you get pulled over?

1390
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 5: And I told her, well, it's not exclusive to boys.

1391
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 2: I have a daughter who's black, and I would have

1392
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 2: to have the same conversation with her. Yes, men are

1393
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 2: I think more targeted than women are? I mean, obviously

1394
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 2: look at the.

1395
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, clearly.

1396
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 2: But I still have to have that conversation with her

1397
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 2: because she needs to know too, what if she's in

1398
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 2: a car with a black boy, you know, who doesn't

1399
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 2: who don't a parent whose parents didn't have this conversation

1400
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 2: with them, right.

1401
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Or alone?

1402
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 3: I guess she means she she was just a black

1403
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 3: woman driving through Texas, just got a job.

1404
01:05:58,760 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 5: That's right.

1405
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 2: And you know, I was like, I don't I don't

1406
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 2: know how I would have that conversation with her. I mean,

1407
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 2: I think having conversations like this kind of like make

1408
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 2: me obviously think about it more. But I think, you know,

1409
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 2: I want her to know that not all police officers

1410
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 2: are bad people, but you know, they're human, and you

1411
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 2: give a human power to kind of do as they will.

1412
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 1: Shit can go wrong, and on top of it, black.

1413
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,920
Speaker 2: Bodies, brown bodies are not as valued as white bodies

1414
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 2: in this world subconsciously and consciously, you know.

1415
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 5: And I think that's where the conversation starts.

1416
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 4: It's really how do you and this is the challenge

1417
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:39,560
Speaker 4: of being an educator, and how do you take something

1418
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 4: that's so complex and you dissect it down to its

1419
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 4: roots so it's digestible, digestible, So how do you how

1420
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 4: do you unpack white supremacy to a kid so they

1421
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 4: understand what that is because that's what they're being faced with.

1422
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 1: Even I don't care if you're.

1423
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 4: A black officer, white officer, or a Latino officer, they're

1424
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 4: still working in the system of white supremacy and they're

1425
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 4: upholding that system.

1426
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 5: And what is that system and how does it affect

1427
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 5: the consciousness?

1428
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 4: And how do they see you in that system through

1429
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 4: that lens of white supremacy, which is mess that which

1430
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 4: is you know, demonized, which is you know, threat enemy,

1431
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 4: which is historical.

1432
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: So how do you unpack.

1433
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 4: That for a child so they understand what white supremacy is?

1434
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 4: Because you know, Nearlie Fuller, who is you know, a

1435
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 4: great you know philosopher. He said that if you don't

1436
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 4: understand white supremacy, every other thing around you will confuse you.

1437
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, if you don't understand why.

1438
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 2: You don't understand white prevacy, everything else will confuse you.

1439
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 1: Nless of course you're white.

1440
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 2: I mean obviously I don't really have to have this

1441
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 2: conversation with her right now, of course, you know, but

1442
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 2: you start dropping little, you start I think you kind

1443
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 2: of like even.

1444
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 1: She asked me the other day and she was like.

1445
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 2: She asked me something about race, and she said race,

1446
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 2: like something about like black and white, like mommy, And

1447
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 2: I was just like, oh my god, how do I

1448
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 2: explain this? It's like without like I don't want to

1449
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 2: like like I don't want her to have be tainted

1450
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 2: and think like she's different or not even different. It's

1451
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 2: just like that there's so much bad in like bad

1452
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 2: shit in the world, Like I want her to be

1453
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 2: optimistic and hopeful in a way to keep that hopefulness

1454
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 2: in her, like knowing I can't lie to her and

1455
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:32,639
Speaker 2: say yeah, baby, like racism is going to end one day,

1456
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:35,639
Speaker 2: you know. But I want her to know that there's people,

1457
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 2: there's people working towards creating a better world for people

1458
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:42,519
Speaker 2: like us, and you can contribute, and you can contribute

1459
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:44,559
Speaker 2: to that in some way and there and you should.

1460
01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:46,599
Speaker 2: And but then you know, it's like, well, why should

1461
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 2: I contribute if it's never gonna end?

1462
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 1: You know.

1463
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 3: It's like then I think about it. I don't like

1464
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 3: to say things like that. I never say never. I

1465
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 3: never say it's never gonna end. I never say you can,

1466
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 3: like one person probably can't change this big system. I

1467
01:08:57,320 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 3: don't believe in that. I feel like if everybody as

1468
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 3: an attitude, nothing will change, you know what I mean.

1469
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 3: Like so so like if we all think fuck it, it's

1470
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 3: too big of a it's too big of a.

1471
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 1: Mountain to plow, that mountain's just gonna grow.

1472
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 3: But if we all have the attitude like let's get

1473
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 3: in the dig deeper and figure this shit out, let's

1474
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 3: talk about it, then eventually, hopefully.

1475
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:16,639
Speaker 1: You know those things.

1476
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 3: And and then I also asked you, what did you

1477
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 3: remember having a talk like could you remember being told no,

1478
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 3: shit's unfair, be nervous when you get pulled over?

1479
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: Because we were both thinking I wasn't raised by a

1480
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 1: black person.

1481
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 2: You know, my mother is Latina, and you know she's

1482
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 2: encountered her bouts of racism, but nowhere near and your.

1483
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 3: Mom she's Latina, but she if I just saw her walking,

1484
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 3: I could think maybe she could she could be Latina,

1485
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 3: and she could be I.

1486
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:45,639
Speaker 1: Don't think she's middle Easter. Yeah white, yeah, no, not white.

1487
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 5: But but so those were talks I never really had.

1488
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 2: It wasn't until I started encountering my own ship that

1489
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 2: I and me being a light skinned black woman. I mean,

1490
01:09:56,439 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 2: of course my experience it is different than yours, you know,

1491
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 2: and I'm well aware of that, but I have encounter

1492
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 2: things and not being educated on it was very confusing

1493
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 2: for me.

1494
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 1: So it was like it was never brought up.

1495
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:14,599
Speaker 3: No, not really, because I think I posted something while

1496
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:16,680
Speaker 3: while back. I think it was the doll thing like

1497
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:19,760
Speaker 3: do you how do you feel about letting your Yeah,

1498
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 3: and I talked about that test, but I said I

1499
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 3: don't I tell all my friends, and it is not

1500
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:27,560
Speaker 3: the thing about like, don't get my kid images that

1501
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 3: don't look like her. And I see that, like my

1502
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 3: friends that aren't black don't really take it seriously because

1503
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 3: I don't think they understand to the level like how

1504
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:36,640
Speaker 3: how big it is.

1505
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 1: But like fuck what I was about.

1506
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 2: To say, Well, because there's our kids are daily, are

1507
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 2: are blasted with what European beauty standards are.

1508
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 1: Like that, that's we're good on that. Yeah, like like

1509
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 1: noth of those images.

1510
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:54,439
Speaker 2: But it's not enough, like they're always going to be there.

1511
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 2: So therefore, if I can at least get my daughter

1512
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 2: to like have some dolls that look like her, or

1513
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 2: like have some movies that look like we can balance

1514
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:04,599
Speaker 2: it out in some way because inevitably it's she's gonna

1515
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 2: be influenced in some way.

1516
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 3: By that.

1517
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 2: I mean, now it's so funny because beauty standards are

1518
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 2: shifting and now it's cool to have big lips, and

1519
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 2: now it's cool to have you know, a big ass

1520
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:18,719
Speaker 2: or you know coren like braided hair, ethnic hair.

1521
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 1: I mean, put who long? Who knows how long that

1522
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 1: trend's gonna last. And even though it's cool to have

1523
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 1: those things it's still not that.

1524
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 3: I mean, it's cool to like the black culture, but

1525
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 3: it is cool to be like there's and and a

1526
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 3: lot of times funny as fuck as it is like

1527
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 3: obviously like we're being more celebrated right now as black women,

1528
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 3: but have you really noticed that, like our attributes are

1529
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 3: being celebrated more on non black.

1530
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: Women right than on ourselves. Yeah, so that's a whole

1531
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 1: different fucking seat. But yeah, of course, But I.

1532
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,679
Speaker 4: Want to go back to I think so just kind

1533
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:53,600
Speaker 4: of to jump in where to start, I would probably

1534
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 4: start before having that conversation, And this is taking the

1535
01:11:57,960 --> 01:11:59,759
Speaker 4: page out of my parents book how I was raised.

1536
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 4: I was raised to love my culture, black cultures, So

1537
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 4: that was infused in me, like like early in the household,

1538
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 4: you know, knowing about Frederick Douglas and knowing about you

1539
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 4: know just you know, Malcolm Max, and knowing about my

1540
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 4: African history, and you know my father just who was

1541
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 4: very very dark skin and my mother who was very

1542
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 4: very light skinned. So colorism was not in my household

1543
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:30,639
Speaker 4: because both my parents were gorgeous and they were both

1544
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 4: at extreme ends of you know, the color spectrum. So

1545
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 4: it was you know, black beauty and black pride and

1546
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 4: you know, loving being black was something that was from

1547
01:12:45,040 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 4: like from the foundation. So by the time that you know,

1548
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 4: we talked about what race was being talked about, it

1549
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 4: wasn't like ooh a negative. It was like, oh, we're

1550
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:57,680
Speaker 4: so fierce, and this is why they hating on us,

1551
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:00,120
Speaker 4: just why they're hating on you. So this why have

1552
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:01,800
Speaker 4: to be careful and this I have to deal with them,

1553
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 4: and this I have to you know, this is before

1554
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 4: it was called cold switching. My dad taught me about

1555
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:06,679
Speaker 4: cold switching.

1556
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 1: You know.

1557
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:10,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, cold switching is like, you know, we speak a

1558
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 2: certain different way when white people entered the room.

1559
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 1: Like hey, how you doing, Yes, okay, thank you. We

1560
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 1: put it off court voice.

1561
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then she was the girl.

1562
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:21,560
Speaker 1: Let me see what happened, right, And so that's the

1563
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 1: cold switch, right.

1564
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:24,719
Speaker 5: So my father did that all the time.

1565
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 4: You know, he'd be in the kitchen talking to us

1566
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 4: and talking about race and you know, niggas this and

1567
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 4: practice this, and you know, he would just be you know,

1568
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 4: my dad was very very much like your father is,

1569
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 4: very unfiltered when they came to race, and the phone

1570
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 4: would bring and be a white person on the phone,

1571
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 4: and we would know instinctively that he was talking to

1572
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 4: a white person one, Hey, Jim, how you doing, And

1573
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 4: it was just this thing, and so we learned, Oh,

1574
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 4: that's how you navigate whiteness in the world as a

1575
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:53,360
Speaker 4: black person, do you know.

1576
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 5: What I mean?

1577
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:56,720
Speaker 2: So those are just some of the things that you know,

1578
01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:58,440
Speaker 2: were rooted to me, and.

1579
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 1: Damn it was.

1580
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:02,719
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just crazy that we have to about

1581
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 3: to navigate in the world and then know how to

1582
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 3: like shut it down and bring it back up when

1583
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:09,920
Speaker 3: it's necessary and that and the fun part about it

1584
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 3: is it's like not to say it's not okay to

1585
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 3: be who you are at all times, but if I

1586
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 3: come and talk to you in my black girl voice,

1587
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 3: you may not hear the message correctly. You're not going

1588
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 3: to hear what the fuck I'm saying because you're so

1589
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:23,920
Speaker 3: stuck in how I'm delivering delivery, right, And that's why

1590
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 3: it's important. And it's really not about diluting ourselves but

1591
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 3: basically speaking a different language.

1592
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:35,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, essentially, yeah, even though I never had a

1593
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 1: label for like code switching, I knew and we do

1594
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 1: it all the time, we too, We all instinct all

1595
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 1: the time.

1596
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 3: And I almost to the point where and this is

1597
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 3: like if I'm in a certain like say I'm in

1598
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:47,719
Speaker 3: a high end store and.

1599
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I was with my girlfriend and this

1600
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:50,880
Speaker 1: young ass guy she was hitting.

1601
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:51,519
Speaker 5: They wanted to go.

1602
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 3: He went to the Louis store or something and he

1603
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 3: said said this. The clerks like how much this is?

1604
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,480
Speaker 1: Right here? And I literally scringe.

1605
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:02,960
Speaker 3: Right I'm hitting the exits like I can't be seen

1606
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 3: you in this, like I just you know, and it

1607
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 3: annoyed me.

1608
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 2: He didn't even know there's a value in that too,

1609
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:12,679
Speaker 2: but you know, so it is a double edged sword.

1610
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:15,839
Speaker 1: It is. It is, and even like he didn't.

1611
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 2: Give a fucker, which is fine too, exactly, it's actually

1612
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 2: kind of beautiful. It is.

1613
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: It's very beautiful.

1614
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:21,640
Speaker 3: And you know what I noticed when I went to

1615
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 3: school down south, because I am so good at cultures,

1616
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 3: and I think I almost I don't want to say

1617
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 3: this anymore, but prided myself and the ability to do

1618
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:35,000
Speaker 3: that because you're gonna know I'm not just some You're

1619
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 3: gonna know you can't fuck with me because you know

1620
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 3: I'm educated and I know how to talk to you,

1621
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 3: or you're gonna understand me. However, I found that when

1622
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 3: I you know, when I went to school down South

1623
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 3: and I was like talking to certain people, I got

1624
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:49,960
Speaker 3: fucked up and mixed up, like because their accents were

1625
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 3: so deep and their slang was so hard, that I

1626
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,639
Speaker 3: associated that with being uneducated, when in fact that.

1627
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: Was not the case. But they didn't feel the need to.

1628
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 3: Code switch in certain environments, which is some ways is admirable,

1629
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:05,720
Speaker 3: because we shouldn't have to talk certain way to not

1630
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 3: die or to get respect or to not be labeled

1631
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 3: as uneducated. And I had to like reprogram myself to think,

1632
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 3: like how ignorant am I to think that, who the

1633
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 3: fuck do I think I am?

1634
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not the smartest bitch ever.

1635
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 3: But you know, it's unfortunate that that's a part of

1636
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:29,240
Speaker 3: being black, that is most definitely a part of our experience,

1637
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 3: Like we have to learn how to navigate in both worlds.

1638
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 1: And then there's been times.

1639
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 3: I went back home to Philly and my cousin's like,

1640
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 3: why are you talking so white?

1641
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 1: Why you talk like that?

1642
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 3: And everybody's skinny like that, like like this ignorant bitch.

1643
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:42,800
Speaker 1: But it's just, you.

1644
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 3: Know, it's just how I was taught to code switch,

1645
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:48,800
Speaker 3: even though I didn't realize I was code switching, and

1646
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 3: I was even talking to Erica and before I came

1647
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 3: back from the bathroom. As being as outspoken as we

1648
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 3: are and how much we advocate for being authentic and

1649
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:00,639
Speaker 3: being who the fuck we.

1650
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,559
Speaker 1: Are, and the raising little girls girl to do the same, you.

1651
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 3: Still kind of have to in some ways, unfortunately, unfortunately

1652
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:13,960
Speaker 3: reconfigure in certain situations. And I even said, like, what

1653
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 3: if we didn't know our rights? What if like the

1654
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 3: kids were like, oh, I'm sorry, sir, yes, that's against

1655
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 3: amendments and codes to them, they will be like, oh,

1656
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 3: this bitch things, she knows some shit. They could go

1657
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 3: either way. But you even have to tell your kids

1658
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:29,680
Speaker 3: like maybe you don't need them let them know you

1659
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 3: know all their shit that they don't know, because that

1660
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:33,679
Speaker 3: could be read incorrectly to telling your kids.

1661
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 5: To basically dumb themselves down, make themselves smaller, to make

1662
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 5: sure that whoever is.

1663
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:41,200
Speaker 1: In that you get out the situa side of that car.

1664
01:17:41,200 --> 01:17:45,360
Speaker 2: Pulling you over doesn't feel intimidated by you or less

1665
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 2: than inferior to you, because that insecurity in itself is dangerous.

1666
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:54,640
Speaker 2: That insecurity gets people killed, that insecurity gets you roughed up.

1667
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 1: Got Sandra killed. I got a lot of people killed.

1668
01:17:57,439 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: So it's just funny.

1669
01:17:58,280 --> 01:17:59,880
Speaker 2: It's funny that we want to raise our kids to

1670
01:17:59,880 --> 01:18:04,759
Speaker 2: be strong black queens and kings, but then when faced

1671
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:09,280
Speaker 2: with you know, that type of authority, you asked them

1672
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 2: to kind of tone it down. And I probably would

1673
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,360
Speaker 2: ask her to do that because I know, you know me,

1674
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 2: I'm sassy as fuck.

1675
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 1: Police officer pulled me over.

1676
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, yes, sir, hello, I'll be reaching over now

1677
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 2: to open my glove to party. And see that I'm

1678
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 2: reaching over, okay, like you know you it just shit shits.

1679
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 2: You would think I'm the most meekest woman that you've

1680
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 2: ever met, because I'm not.

1681
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 1: When I was telling Jimula, when I see a police officer.

1682
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:35,800
Speaker 2: And I she asked me, I asked her, Actually, when

1683
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 2: was when was the defining moment when like seeing an

1684
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 2: officer was no longer like safety that you became like

1685
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 2: scared and like I was thinking, like when I see

1686
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,280
Speaker 2: a police officer driving down the street, I don't think,

1687
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:49,160
Speaker 2: oh I feel safe.

1688
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:50,639
Speaker 1: I think, oh shit, what am I doing wrong?

1689
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:52,880
Speaker 2: I got to make sure make sure I'm driving okay, okay,

1690
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:56,719
Speaker 2: where windows okay? And I was like when one moment

1691
01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:01,080
Speaker 2: in my life did I understand that not a police

1692
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:03,280
Speaker 2: officers off for safety and I was telling her I

1693
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:06,120
Speaker 2: actually dud remember. It's when my father was pulled over

1694
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:09,679
Speaker 2: and my dad had a really nice sports car. Ooh,

1695
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 2: my dad had a very nice car.

1696
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 1: And I remember I.

1697
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:15,720
Speaker 2: Was like, we're on my way to church, actually, and

1698
01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:19,280
Speaker 2: I was probably about five, and he was getting pulled

1699
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 2: over and he was pissed and I didn't understand. He

1700
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:24,000
Speaker 2: was like, what the fuck? This is bullshit, and he

1701
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 2: and like he was cursing a lot. And then I

1702
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:29,800
Speaker 2: remember him saying, it's because I'm black. It's because I'm black,

1703
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 2: I'm driving this car. And I didn't under like, I

1704
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 2: didn't really understand, and the police officer came fucking with him.

1705
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:36,880
Speaker 2: I and I knew my and I knew who my

1706
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 2: dad was, and I knew he hadn't done anything wrong.

1707
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 2: Maybe he had like his windows were tinted like too much.

1708
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 2: I think that's what it was. And then we pulled

1709
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 2: away and to see how angry he was and scared essentially,

1710
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:53,560
Speaker 2: like let me know, like, oh, should.

1711
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 1: I be scared of the police.

1712
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 2: And I think that was that defining moment for me

1713
01:19:57,080 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 2: because because I wasn't raised by my father. I was

1714
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:03,400
Speaker 2: raised by my Latina mother. Like, those are not conversations

1715
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:06,400
Speaker 2: I had. I was like, Oh, police are cool, that's fine.

1716
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 2: Even my daughter had Like daughter goes to school and

1717
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:10,839
Speaker 2: they have like these days where they fire.

1718
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 5: Department comes or the police officers come.

1719
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:14,640
Speaker 2: Her teacher sent me a picture of her with a

1720
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:17,000
Speaker 2: group of police officers, and I was like ooh. Like

1721
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 2: something in me made me like oh ooh, Like I'm like, oh,

1722
01:20:20,720 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 2: the police day like and I'm like, what, that's so

1723
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 2: fucked up that I live in this world. And I'm like,

1724
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:29,240
Speaker 2: I'm I don't associate it with.

1725
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:30,599
Speaker 5: Safety at all anymore.

1726
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:32,799
Speaker 2: I mean, and I'm not to say all police officers

1727
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:34,600
Speaker 2: are bad because and that's something I wanted to know too,

1728
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 2: because I know they aren't. And I'm sure even you,

1729
01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:40,440
Speaker 2: like working in the facility you did with like correctional

1730
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 2: officers and different types of you know, people and positions

1731
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 2: to kind of correct.

1732
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:47,880
Speaker 5: Things, you meet good people absolutely.

1733
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 2: And like people that are there too because they are

1734
01:20:50,240 --> 01:20:54,080
Speaker 2: care and it gets so diluted by all the bad shit.

1735
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,599
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, and then I know you've had

1736
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:02,240
Speaker 2: a different experience whereas you're your parents always taught you

1737
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:03,240
Speaker 2: like pigs.

1738
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:08,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I yeah, I've always it's always been

1739
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 3: fucked the pigs.

1740
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:17,040
Speaker 1: Right, you know. And yeah, I'm definitely Malcolm X not Mark. Well.

1741
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:23,560
Speaker 3: My middle name is a Sodus, So I mean, I

1742
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:27,280
Speaker 3: don't know if I've always felt fear, but definitely not aid.

1743
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 3: Definitely not you know, like, oh, I'm safe, the police

1744
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 3: are here. But also honestly subconsciously different times, I've probably

1745
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:40,280
Speaker 3: maybe been walking alone and a black couple, group of

1746
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:42,240
Speaker 3: black guys walk by, and I'm thinking, oh shit, and

1747
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:45,120
Speaker 3: I'm like damn, or like hm, I never sen black

1748
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 3: person in my building before.

1749
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 1: What is he doing over here?

1750
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 3: I'm like, damn, bitch, even you even you're subconsciously fucked up,

1751
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:52,000
Speaker 3: you know not.

1752
01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:53,360
Speaker 1: But same goes through.

1753
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 3: I've been in the airport and I see like a

1754
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 3: shaved head, really militant, military looking white guy. I'm like, oh,

1755
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:00,840
Speaker 3: he's probably fucking racist as fun. And he said he's

1756
01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:02,360
Speaker 3: trying to help me in the airport. You're not at

1757
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 3: the baby. He's like, hey, let me help you. He

1758
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:05,519
Speaker 3: got mad at me, like I keep trying to help you.

1759
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,800
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, okay, well just help me then, and

1760
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 3: I have to continuously check myself, like you made an

1761
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:13,719
Speaker 3: assumption about this person, and you have no fucking clues

1762
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 3: people are, you know, because and it goes the subconsciously,

1763
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:20,759
Speaker 3: it goes so many ways, you know. But then also

1764
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:24,799
Speaker 3: just saying on the gender, you know, raising young boys

1765
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:26,439
Speaker 3: and raising young black girls.

1766
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:28,360
Speaker 1: You know, the fucked up part is like you said,

1767
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter.

1768
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:31,800
Speaker 3: And even in that recent case where oh my god,

1769
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 3: this she breaks my heart. But in Saint Louis where

1770
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 3: the cop oh Rice, mm hmm, no, no, not to me,

1771
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 3: a Rice, not the kid when he was in the

1772
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:41,880
Speaker 3: passenger seat.

1773
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:44,960
Speaker 1: The cafeteria worker, Oh, Fernando Castile.

1774
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 3: Filando Castile got shot on Facebook live in front of

1775
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:51,879
Speaker 3: his four year old child and his girlfriend.

1776
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:55,400
Speaker 1: And it's like, damn, the cop didn't even look in

1777
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:56,799
Speaker 1: the back seat and think.

1778
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 3: Oh, there's a child in the car and what if

1779
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:02,080
Speaker 3: the bullet went through the sea, or like damn, this

1780
01:23:02,120 --> 01:23:05,759
Speaker 3: could be that person's parent. Like it, even our children

1781
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 3: don't matter to some people, and some of those people

1782
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 3: are in in, you know, positions of authority, and that's

1783
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:14,719
Speaker 3: fucked up. And like you said, we're just everyone's human.

1784
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 1: But it's just it's just a lot.

1785
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 3: That's this is one thing that I'm very passionate about,

1786
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:24,559
Speaker 3: and I try not like I try not to get

1787
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 3: too deep into it because I can come off very dark,

1788
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 3: and I'm really not that type of person. I'm very

1789
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:31,439
Speaker 3: in love and in light. But this particularly, these kind

1790
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 3: of topics are so dark and so barbaric and so

1791
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:39,880
Speaker 3: fucked up, so barbaric, and it's taken place over such

1792
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 3: a long course of history.

1793
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:46,000
Speaker 2: And because white supremacy is terrorism, it is white supremacy

1794
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:48,280
Speaker 2: is terrorism is barbaric.

1795
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:52,720
Speaker 4: And to be at the constant, you know, receiving and

1796
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 4: barbaric terrorism on our bodies and our communities in.

1797
01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 3: The places not to mention ancestral trauma, you know, like

1798
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,479
Speaker 3: our eggs are our eggs, our whole lives, which means

1799
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 3: I had my luna in my body before. This means

1800
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:13,720
Speaker 3: my mother had her her egg and her body. Like

1801
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:15,559
Speaker 3: we've we've been hearing through all of this, and so

1802
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 3: there's so much hurt.

1803
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:20,479
Speaker 1: I'm so hurt by it. I'm so well.

1804
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:22,840
Speaker 4: I'm convinced that's why black women have a higher rate

1805
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:27,680
Speaker 4: of five boids is because we're carrying Jeanette what it

1806
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:32,840
Speaker 4: was it called cellular trauma and from all from all

1807
01:24:32,920 --> 01:24:36,760
Speaker 4: the sexual assault from our ancestors from when they were

1808
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 4: rape forms on plantations.

1809
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm literally had situations encounters where I'm like making out.

1810
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:46,200
Speaker 3: With like a white guy and I get like, maybe

1811
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:48,719
Speaker 3: I was really high that day, and I'll getting.

1812
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:52,840
Speaker 1: Like a flashback like oh my god, I've had the savors. Yes, yeah,

1813
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:56,320
Speaker 1: I was fucking trick flashbacks of like a like a

1814
01:24:56,360 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 1: white slave owner or something like me. Oh yes, I

1815
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 1: mean I I had that.

1816
01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:02,080
Speaker 5: I thought it was me.

1817
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:05,200
Speaker 1: I thought I was like, Okay, oh my god, I'm

1818
01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:07,280
Speaker 1: so happy. I just didn't say this. I try to

1819
01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:08,120
Speaker 1: explain this to you one day.

1820
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:10,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, this sounds crazy, but literally situation it was

1821
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 3: like going back and forth.

1822
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 1: Like it was that person. But then I would see.

1823
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:17,680
Speaker 3: Like like a like a slave owner and it was

1824
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:22,040
Speaker 3: that pert like maybe I don't know, and it just started.

1825
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 1: The slave owner yes wow. And I was like, what

1826
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 1: the fuck am I doing? And I was like, okay,

1827
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 1: I gotta go. You know this is not working out

1828
01:25:27,439 --> 01:25:30,599
Speaker 1: for me. No, I want to keep going okay.

1829
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 3: And I'm like and it was literally just going back

1830
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:34,160
Speaker 3: and forth wow, And I'm.

1831
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 1: Like, am I fucking tripping?

1832
01:25:35,160 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 2: Right?

1833
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:37,200
Speaker 1: Now, but no, now, I know I'm not.

1834
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:41,800
Speaker 4: I had that experience once dating years ago, this white

1835
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 4: dude and we walked by we were just going off.

1836
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:48,920
Speaker 1: Brunch, you know, and we walked by a window.

1837
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:50,679
Speaker 2: You know, you can see reflection, and when I saw

1838
01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:52,719
Speaker 2: my reflection, I had that flash.

1839
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:55,960
Speaker 4: I was like, oh ship, and it was and I

1840
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:57,280
Speaker 4: was like, okay, you are tripping.

1841
01:25:57,760 --> 01:25:59,680
Speaker 1: But I was not the same in that relationship.

1842
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:06,760
Speaker 4: And after that was like my ancestors.

1843
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 1: They are like, we are not having this daughter.

1844
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 3: Not to say that I have had I've updated more

1845
01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:15,160
Speaker 3: than one white guy. I mean, yeah, I don't describ me,

1846
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:21,160
Speaker 3: but just in that particular situation, it was like, ooh,

1847
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 3: I can't really do this. And I'm not saying like

1848
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:26,760
Speaker 3: that's to say that allowed from my ancestral trauma.

1849
01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:29,400
Speaker 4: But because there's so much trauma that has not been

1850
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:33,800
Speaker 4: unpacked and that this country has refused to address and

1851
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 4: deal with.

1852
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:37,080
Speaker 3: So and people want to have a conversation all the time,

1853
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:38,800
Speaker 3: you know, get over, get over, I've come so far.

1854
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:40,679
Speaker 1: You have equal rights now, but it's like we can't

1855
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:41,640
Speaker 1: even discuss.

1856
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:44,840
Speaker 3: That until we fix all of this ship that brings

1857
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:47,639
Speaker 3: us right here. There's so much self hate. There's so much,

1858
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 3: you know, just hate within the community. There's so much miseducation,

1859
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 3: there's so much no education, there's just no.

1860
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 1: Like literally, this is my biggest thing.

1861
01:26:56,400 --> 01:27:01,760
Speaker 3: Literally in the States, are are his talk about ourselves

1862
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:04,120
Speaker 3: begins in slavery period?

1863
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:05,200
Speaker 1: Exactly?

1864
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 3: We have a problematic that's problematic when you've learned about

1865
01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 3: First of all, we get the month of February.

1866
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 1: Oh, happy Black History Month everyone.

1867
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 3: The shortest month of the year, and it's like slavery

1868
01:27:16,120 --> 01:27:16,879
Speaker 3: slave ships.

1869
01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:21,400
Speaker 1: Abraham freed you Malcolm, and no, we're don't talk about

1870
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:24,320
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King. He had a dream March first.

1871
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:28,120
Speaker 4: Well, here's here's the thing to that point. I had

1872
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:31,440
Speaker 4: a coworker who I worked with who was a militant

1873
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:37,839
Speaker 4: and brother brother X. Shout out brother X if you're listening,

1874
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:40,120
Speaker 4: he said to me. And I thought that was so

1875
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 4: brilliant because I believe and I know that education has

1876
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:47,080
Speaker 4: been colonized. So when you have the sons and daughters

1877
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:49,439
Speaker 4: of our former slave masters teaching our children, they're not

1878
01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:51,400
Speaker 4: teaching them to be free, they're not teaching them the

1879
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 4: true history of.

1880
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:55,960
Speaker 1: Of what, of what who we are?

1881
01:27:56,439 --> 01:28:03,120
Speaker 3: And would you let your captivator educate your children exactly exactly.

1882
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:10,000
Speaker 4: So therein lies why you know, there's so much miseducation

1883
01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:13,240
Speaker 4: and ignorance about who we are as a people, who

1884
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:16,960
Speaker 4: they are, and who we've been together in this you know,

1885
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 4: American experiment and interruption of our you know, evolution.

1886
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 1: It's an American fucking experiment. But you know, joke's on you.

1887
01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:28,240
Speaker 4: Bitches, and it's and it's also an infection. I believe

1888
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:29,559
Speaker 4: white supremacy is an infection.

1889
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:32,479
Speaker 3: It is because it's easier to just go along with it,

1890
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:33,760
Speaker 3: especially if its benefits and.

1891
01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:37,200
Speaker 2: It's infected, and it infects white people and we've been infected,

1892
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:39,919
Speaker 2: so they're suffering and we're suffering.

1893
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:43,439
Speaker 4: So until white supremacy is unpacked and that was I

1894
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:47,480
Speaker 4: think that we will be constantly dealing asking questions.

1895
01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:51,679
Speaker 5: But how do we get here? We are like deep

1896
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:53,240
Speaker 5: a rabbit hole nowhere.

1897
01:28:54,120 --> 01:28:56,240
Speaker 3: But anyway, if you have any questions about where to

1898
01:28:56,240 --> 01:28:58,920
Speaker 3: begin your journey lowing yourself and knowing the system, and.

1899
01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:02,320
Speaker 2: You're in the DC area, oh yes, come see The

1900
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:06,280
Speaker 2: Peculiar Patriots. I will be performing at Willie Mammoth Theater

1901
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:11,880
Speaker 2: of the almost the entire month of April in Washington, d.

1902
01:29:11,960 --> 01:29:15,120
Speaker 1: C And seriously, literally, I've seen it.

1903
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:19,320
Speaker 3: And if you are in the DC area, chavon all

1904
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:22,760
Speaker 3: my friends that I know, I'm gonna tell you have

1905
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:24,080
Speaker 3: to go see this show.

1906
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:26,879
Speaker 1: It's it's epic, it's it's it's.

1907
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:30,639
Speaker 3: Inspiring, it's moving, it's educational, and it's something I think

1908
01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:31,679
Speaker 3: everybody should see.

1909
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 1: Definitely. And you're amazing. Thank you. Do you have anything

1910
01:29:37,280 --> 01:29:39,000
Speaker 1: to add No, I think that's it.

1911
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:41,760
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for taking the time to come

1912
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:43,840
Speaker 2: here and talk to us and let us pick your

1913
01:29:43,840 --> 01:29:46,800
Speaker 2: brain and ask you all types of questions.

1914
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:48,280
Speaker 1: And great conversation.

1915
01:29:48,479 --> 01:29:50,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm so happy, and I'm really excited to see

1916
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:51,080
Speaker 5: your show.

1917
01:29:51,320 --> 01:29:56,200
Speaker 1: I can't and this is a new show you haven't seen.

1918
01:29:56,200 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 3: I haven't seen this one, so I'm excited to tell

1919
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:00,599
Speaker 3: us your Instagram, your website.

1920
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:04,080
Speaker 4: Oh so, my Instagram is Lisa Jesse Peterson l I

1921
01:30:04,200 --> 01:30:08,400
Speaker 4: Z A Jesse j E s s I E. Peterson,

1922
01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:13,280
Speaker 4: and my website is Lisa jessep dot com.

1923
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 1: And the book is All Day and you can.

1924
01:30:15,200 --> 01:30:18,400
Speaker 4: Find it on Amazon, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles and on

1925
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 4: my website.

1926
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:25,000
Speaker 2: Alright, and Lisa is going to take us out of

1927
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:29,000
Speaker 2: this episode with a poem poetry.

1928
01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:32,360
Speaker 5: I'll do a excerpt of I'll do an excerpt of

1929
01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:34,600
Speaker 5: a black Love manifesto.

1930
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:38,360
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so please whenever you were ready, hold on,

1931
01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:39,600
Speaker 2: let me get the ch let me make sure the

1932
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:42,840
Speaker 2: children shut.

1933
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:50,840
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, for like thirty she's a poe.

1934
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:58,960
Speaker 2: I feel like, my god, this episode it's a children

1935
01:30:59,040 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 2: screaming in the background all time.

1936
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:04,160
Speaker 5: That's hilarious.

1937
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:06,479
Speaker 1: First time this is this happens?

1938
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right the time, real world. Yeah, oh my god,

1939
01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 2: he's got both of them on his back. I mean,

1940
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:17,840
Speaker 2: except we have babysitters, which currently normally it's just them playing,

1941
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:22,439
Speaker 2: so they're interrupting constantly, constantly, constantly, which is real.

1942
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:25,040
Speaker 1: It's real. Yeah, it's real. I know. We get we do.

1943
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:26,479
Speaker 1: We do get a review.

1944
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:28,960
Speaker 3: It's like, that's great, but I really couldn't take the

1945
01:31:29,040 --> 01:31:30,720
Speaker 3: kids in the background, like you don't have the kids yet,

1946
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:33,559
Speaker 3: and that's what people love it.

1947
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:36,479
Speaker 1: But oh, let's wait for the plane to class.

1948
01:31:37,439 --> 01:31:41,360
Speaker 4: Okay, so whenever you Oh, okay, alright, this is this

1949
01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:47,360
Speaker 4: is an excerpt from a longer piece, but this is short, okay, okay,

1950
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:53,280
Speaker 4: Blue Black Brown, Baby Buckshot, Shorty Rock, Melanated, Prince King,

1951
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:56,639
Speaker 4: kissed by the sun with your soular blessed skin sculpted

1952
01:31:56,760 --> 01:32:00,439
Speaker 4: like a god, mashed or crafted in my womb, first woomb,

1953
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:05,559
Speaker 4: ancient womb, safe and sacred womb, African fertile soil, black gold,

1954
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:08,680
Speaker 4: diamond oil, mineral rich. Mama me I she iwe We

1955
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:13,160
Speaker 4: stirred you up, good boy, you potent, powerful, wonder warrior

1956
01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:16,280
Speaker 4: of the world, You who always had the planet head

1957
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 4: and out unto your beat, got the globe axis leaning

1958
01:32:19,400 --> 01:32:22,719
Speaker 4: and tilted like your hat. Call it black swag, black cool,

1959
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:26,479
Speaker 4: cat daddy, funky, blues, rock, jazz, juke joint, sugar shack,

1960
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:30,519
Speaker 4: sanctified negroy clunk, type of stack, type of monster at

1961
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:32,880
Speaker 4: aweight on the microphone, check one two one two tape

1962
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:36,120
Speaker 4: of Boom to the back, the boom back, soulful, genius

1963
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:39,800
Speaker 4: and coded in your DNA, divine nappy archives, coiled in

1964
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:42,880
Speaker 4: your hair, the creators, rhythm, love, child, the natural air,

1965
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:46,599
Speaker 4: the planet rock as poetry somersaults out your mouth. Your

1966
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:50,040
Speaker 4: slang is slung around the world. What you say, how

1967
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:52,720
Speaker 4: you say it, what you wear, how you wear it,

1968
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 4: how you do it, urban hot couit, It's show time, Olympic,

1969
01:32:57,200 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 4: ghetto gymnastics, double back, flipping to it a one handed handstand,

1970
01:33:01,000 --> 01:33:03,360
Speaker 4: pop block, Harlem shaking to a rent, Jean Pirouett and

1971
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:06,360
Speaker 4: Shelter Adidas on crowd of moving subway cars to Brooklyn.

1972
01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:10,599
Speaker 4: World class concrete symphonies, underground ballet for a dollar donation.

1973
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:18,559
Speaker 4: You was born with a baby.

1974
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:25,080
Speaker 2: Look at look at my arm? Wow, wow amazing And

1975
01:33:25,080 --> 01:33:27,320
Speaker 2: that's an excerpting.

1976
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:30,479
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, Well, thank you. This has been such a pleasure,

1977
01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:32,760
Speaker 1: so much fun. Thank you guys are awesome, Thank you

1978
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:35,080
Speaker 1: for coming, thank you for having me, and thank you

1979
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:37,720
Speaker 1: guys for listening. And we'll see you next week. Yeah.

1980
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:41,280
Speaker 2: Make sure to follow us at Good Mom's Underscore by Choices.

1981
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:45,040
Speaker 3: And uh visit us online at www dot good moms

1982
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:46,320
Speaker 3: by Choices dot com.

1983
01:33:46,360 --> 01:33:48,559
Speaker 1: A uh subscribe to our.

1984
01:33:49,960 --> 01:33:53,080
Speaker 3: Mailing list, oh, subscribe to her million lists, subscribe to

1985
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:53,639
Speaker 3: the podcast.

1986
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:55,599
Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube and if you.

1987
01:33:55,640 --> 01:33:58,720
Speaker 2: Liked this episode, uh feel free to uh leave us

1988
01:33:58,720 --> 01:34:02,479
Speaker 2: a review on Apple podcast and you like.

1989
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:07,679
Speaker 1: A don't I don't know pack? You want to prop

1990
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:12,680
Speaker 1: it from your tom mouse. They love to come up

1991
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:17,759
Speaker 1: away they are inside O baby baby. Don't you cry?

1992
01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:20,120
Speaker 5: Oh you got your.

1993
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:24,400
Speaker 3: Price, and don't get down.

1994
01:34:25,080 --> 01:34:31,240
Speaker 1: We go and get up. I say down, play come,

1995
01:34:31,439 --> 01:34:33,520
Speaker 1: get up and