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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of I Saw What

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Speaker 1: You Did. My name is Millie to Jericho.

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Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Henderson, and we're back here.

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Speaker 1: With you to talk about movies and other things. How's

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Speaker 1: it going, Commodore?

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Speaker 2: It's going on right this week? Pretty chill.

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Speaker 3: Trying to get people to call me commodore. It is

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Speaker 3: not working in this town at all. But how are

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Speaker 3: you doing? Hey?

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Speaker 1: You know ham, Okay, I got a birthday coming up

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Speaker 1: in a few days.

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Speaker 2: You do, And I.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, I think that I'm going to spend my birthday

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Speaker 1: this year doing my taxes and looking for a job.

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Speaker 2: I mean, who says you don't know how to party?

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Speaker 3: Not me?

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, I you know, I think at a

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Speaker 1: certain point this is probably a common sentiment by this point,

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Speaker 1: but after a certain age, it's almost like you get

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Speaker 1: like the tens to celebrate, but then all the stuff

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Speaker 1: in the middle is like who cares? Like if you

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Speaker 1: turn like forty seven, should you like be going on

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Speaker 1: like an you know, all inclusive Jamaican trip to really

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Speaker 1: blow it out. It's like it's just forty seven, right,

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Speaker 1: But it's also like, I know, I also don't want

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Speaker 1: to do taxes though.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do that.

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Speaker 3: But I feel like you should absolutely celebrate every single birthday.

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Speaker 3: But I think after a certain age, when you're only

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Speaker 3: you only celebrate the tens with other people and all

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Speaker 3: the in betweens.

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Speaker 2: It's just on you. Like you can't have a birthday week.

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Speaker 3: You can't have fucking expensive blowout parties for forty eight

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Speaker 3: Like I mean, if you can't, if you want, don't,

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Speaker 3: don't let me tell you what to do. But I

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Speaker 3: personally think I'm only going to celebrate the tens with people,

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Speaker 3: and every other birthday I'm on my own to do

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Speaker 3: whatever I want.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I gotta be honest with you. I

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Speaker 1: think people who do birthday weeks after a certain age

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like serial killer, territory serial killer or

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Speaker 1: self care. That would be my entry.

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Speaker 3: I think absolutely, and I agree with you one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent that after a certain point, and truly, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to give you a birthday week and two different in

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Speaker 3: two different instances you for me, you get a birthday

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Speaker 3: week if you are under the age of eighteen or

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Speaker 3: you've just recovered from a major illness.

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Speaker 1: That is it.

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Speaker 3: If you are celebrating life because you almost lost your life,

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Speaker 3: or because you're an actual child that I will give

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Speaker 3: you a birthday week. Otherwise I am not participating. You

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Speaker 3: will get a birthday from me every time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, that makes sense. And it's actually

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Speaker 1: really funny too, because like a couple weeks ago, I

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Speaker 1: called my old boss like the night before his birthday,

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Speaker 1: because you know, he and I still chat even though

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Speaker 1: I no longer work for him, And all I did

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Speaker 1: was complain, Like I just called him and I was like, ah,

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Speaker 1: I fucking hate looking for a job, this sucks, blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. And it was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: literally an hour before his birthday. And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I guess his birthday present is me complaining about being realoyed.

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Speaker 3: That's that is a true adult birthday, where you're like,

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Speaker 3: happy birthday.

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Speaker 2: Have you heard this shit?

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Speaker 1: Can you believe this fucking shit? And that is the

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Speaker 1: rest of the discussion. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So I feel like that's kind of the mode really

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Speaker 4: in the dates in between milestones, is that your birthday

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Speaker 4: is spent doing things you hate and hearing from people

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Speaker 4: about their.

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Speaker 3: Problems, so including taxes, which I mean I would say,

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Speaker 3: why do both? But I understand also the impetus to

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Speaker 3: be like, well, it's my birthday and it's gonna suck anyway,

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Speaker 3: so I might as well do this other thing.

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Speaker 2: This sucks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know, I don't know. Maybe there'll

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Speaker 1: be like a last minute celebration, but honestly, like I've

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Speaker 1: just been like in this mode right now of you know,

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Speaker 1: looking for jobs, by the way, one of the worst

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Speaker 1: things in the world. I have to say. Maybe they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to say that, but it is true.

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Speaker 1: Like to me at this point, looking for jobs is

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Speaker 1: like online dating.

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Speaker 2: Ugh, this is why I'm out of both.

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Speaker 3: That is a very I think that is a very

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Speaker 3: true sentiment for my limited experience with both, that it

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Speaker 3: seems very true.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I think it's because jobs. I mean, look, look,

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Speaker 1: I had a job for almost twenty years, so the

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Speaker 1: last time I had really like hit the pavement was

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Speaker 1: pretty much I mean, I won't say it was completely

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Speaker 1: before the Internet or social media, but it was like

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Speaker 1: it isn't like it is now where you have to

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Speaker 1: have your resume, you know, optimize for like search engines,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, ugh, it's not even at this point,

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Speaker 1: like you got to know somebody to know somebody, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you always have to know somebody, but you also have

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Speaker 1: to put your shit up on like LinkedIn and Indeed

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Speaker 1: and all this stuff. And that's what makes it feel

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Speaker 1: like online dating to me is just this idea that

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Speaker 1: you have to go into this like social media environment exactly.

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Speaker 1: And this is probably counterproductive to getting a job because

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Speaker 1: I just want to come. I just want to talk

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Speaker 1: about LinkedIn. It is such a fascinating website.

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Speaker 3: I'm never really engaged with LinkedIn, and I dipped in

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Speaker 3: once to make sure that they didn't have my information

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Speaker 3: up there, and I was like, this is a fucking

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Speaker 3: nightmare health gape.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's like, I don't know. I have so many

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Speaker 1: thoughts about it, because here's the thing. I had a

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Speaker 1: LinkedIn profile for a long time because it was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I worked for like a company, and that was kind

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Speaker 1: of standard practice to just have a profile. Like I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying I looked at it. I'm just saying like

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like a placeholder like Facebook. It's like

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Speaker 1: you have a profile, but you don't go in there

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Speaker 1: and doodle around. It's just basically so nobody tastes your

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Speaker 1: identities like I don't know right exactly. That's why I checked.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, is anybody I haven't pretending to be me

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Speaker 2: and trying to get jobs? No, okay, we're cool.

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Speaker 1: Well, and like the thing the thing about it is

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Speaker 1: that now you know I have you know, I basically

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Speaker 1: was given sort of a service to have, you know,

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Speaker 1: a coach, like a I guess it's like a career

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Speaker 1: coach slash resume builder.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: I'm very lucky for that. I worked for, you know,

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Speaker 1: a big corporation and they give you, you know, severance

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Speaker 1: materials or whatever. And so a lot of the like

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Speaker 1: things that I've been hearing, you know, is like you

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Speaker 1: should be on LinkedIn, that you should fill this out,

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Speaker 1: you should get on there every day, you should come,

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Speaker 1: you should like things, you should connect with people. And

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, lord, wow, so I have to sit

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Speaker 1: on this thing every day. And much like you know,

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Speaker 1: if you want to find a partner, you have to

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Speaker 1: go into the apps and swipe and start conversations even

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Speaker 1: though they don't go anywhere.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's just so it's that thing of like, oh god,

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Speaker 1: I hate logging into the site and having to like

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Speaker 1: play the game right.

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Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, because I completely Maybe it's a matter of

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Speaker 3: self preservation. I don't know what it is, but I

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Speaker 3: have such a strong knee jerk reaction about the fact

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Speaker 3: that we have crafted most of our adult worlds to

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Speaker 3: be busy work. Like I don't want my work to

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Speaker 3: be busy work. I don't need that. Like we just

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Speaker 3: fill every fucking minute with some bullshit, and this is

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Speaker 3: just an extension of the bullshit. Like you have to

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Speaker 3: be on LinkedIn commenting and treating it like it's Instagram

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Speaker 3: and like it's something like what the shit is?

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Speaker 1: No, Yeah, And it's all in an effort to get noticed,

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Speaker 1: and you know, and you know they say, oh, use

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Speaker 1: your network, use the people that you know. They can

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Speaker 1: help you out, and I mean listen, Like, I think

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Speaker 1: it's a very touchy subject to talk about being unemployed,

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Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people feel a lot

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Speaker 1: of shame around that. And I worked through all that

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Speaker 1: and I'm still working through all that obviously, but I

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Speaker 1: also feel like I think being transparent about how hard

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Speaker 1: it is is like important too, because that's the thing

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Speaker 1: is that linked In is this environment where people are

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Speaker 1: looking to get jobs, and so they're putting their best

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Speaker 1: foot forward. I get that, but it's also people that

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Speaker 1: you know in real life to be like cool and

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Speaker 1: not that, like not this like kind of polished corporate

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Speaker 1: version of themselves. And so we're all just in this

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Speaker 1: space like using kind of corporate slang and being super

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Speaker 1: positive and you know, doing all these things that we

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Speaker 1: obviously don't want to do, right, but it's because we

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Speaker 1: need to eat and pay the rents. You know. It's

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Speaker 1: really bizarre. It's a bizarre environment, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: And because of the fact that like everyone knows what's

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Speaker 3: going on in that way, like you all know what

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Speaker 3: you're doing there and why you're doing it, and it

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Speaker 3: kind of creates this false venear because it's not I

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Speaker 3: don't know that it's actually helpful in getting people work

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Speaker 3: or it just is kind of a placebo type of

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Speaker 3: thing that just makes people feel better about trying to

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Speaker 3: get work. But I don't know if it's actually I mean,

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Speaker 3: maybe it is, but I don't know if it's actually.

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Speaker 2: Helpful to people.

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Speaker 3: Like I've never heard someone say like, oh, I got

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Speaker 3: a job because I spent eighty hours on LinkedIn for

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Speaker 3: a month and hit somebody because it's like, well, we're

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Speaker 3: all here doing the same thing. You're just talking to

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Speaker 3: other people who are unemployed. Yeah, so it's a nice

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Speaker 3: community in that way, but it's not like maybe the

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Speaker 3: most useful for getting employment.

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Speaker 1: Well, I like that's the thing too, is that like

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Speaker 1: you will frequently see other people that you don't know,

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Speaker 1: like on your you know, feed or whatever, and it's

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Speaker 1: because your friends are interacting with them. So it's that thing.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like the Instagram thing where I find myself

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Speaker 1: like looking at other people being like, I just got

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Speaker 1: a job. I would love to announce that I just

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Speaker 1: am now the new you know, president of the United

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Speaker 1: States of America. And I'm like getting weirdly jealous of

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Speaker 1: it too. And I will sit there and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you the stranger got a job, and how you know,

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Speaker 1: Oh god, I can't believe this is showing up in

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Speaker 1: my feed. So it is like, for all its positivity

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Speaker 1: and all that, So it does also create this weird

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Speaker 1: toxics at the same time, because it's like everybody just

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Speaker 1: wants a job and to be employed, and then you're

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Speaker 1: looking for a job while watching strangers actually getting jobs

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Speaker 1: and being exactly exactly and it's just it's the same

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Speaker 1: thing where it.

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Speaker 3: Used to be like on Instagram, where it's like why

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Speaker 3: am I watching this person traveling to Bora Bora? Like

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Speaker 3: why the fuck am I watching all these people become

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Speaker 3: influencers of their own lives and only showing us the

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Speaker 3: best of the best and not showing us the moments

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Speaker 3: where they're crying in the corner because they're afraid they

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Speaker 3: can't fucking pay their electric bill. Like that's what I

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Speaker 3: need from LinkedIn, is can we just talk about the

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Speaker 3: fear and the emotions that we're going through right now

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Speaker 3: that we're now that we know we're all in this position,

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Speaker 3: can we talk about it? And no, it's you still

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Speaker 3: got people popping up being like, ps, I'm marrying Timothy Challime,

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Speaker 3: I don't have to ever work again, And you're like, what,

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Speaker 3: how is it?

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Speaker 1: I don't need to see this shit on LinkedIn? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then the other thing too that has complicated it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, be like, obviously this is such

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Speaker 1: an emotional time, you know for anybody who's struggling to

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Speaker 1: find work, and like, you know, whatever it is and

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Speaker 1: whatever way you go about doing it, but it's this

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Speaker 1: thing of like I also am having a hard time

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out, like, because so much of the

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Speaker 1: modern vernacular about getting jobs is about being a brand

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Speaker 1: and branding yourself and creating an identity and being a

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Speaker 1: brand and this stuff, and you're just like, what is

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Speaker 1: my brand? Like I'm like, this is so bizarre. Like

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I understand that maybe simple intelligence and competency

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Speaker 1: is no longer sexy, right, you know, you have to

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Speaker 1: be a brand and do a whole.

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Speaker 2: Song and dance. Uh, And what does that bring to

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Speaker 2: a company?

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Speaker 3: If everyone working for you is a brand, they are

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Speaker 3: literally not focused on your company, they are focused on themselves.

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Speaker 3: What does that give you to hire someone who is

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Speaker 3: their own brand?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I don't actually know, because it is like that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing too, is that when you, at least

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Speaker 1: for me, when you come across somebody who is a

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Speaker 1: brand in a very extreme way, you're like, uh, yes,

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Speaker 1: Like I.

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Speaker 2: Don't want to hear that.

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Speaker 1: What I mean, You're like, I know, that's the fuck

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Speaker 1: of it.

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Speaker 3: Too, where I'm like, again, I completely understand, and I'm

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Speaker 3: so glad you're talking about like all the emotions that

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Speaker 3: go into this shit, because you're like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see what you want me to do.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to do it like for my own

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Speaker 3: benefit and like my own life would be worse if

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Speaker 3: I had to do that.

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Speaker 2: I would not like myself as much if I had

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Speaker 2: to be that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying that I don't have

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Speaker 1: a skill set and that I don't have you know,

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Speaker 1: I have done something consistently over a certain amount of time,

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Speaker 1: and you know, but I don't see that as like

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Speaker 1: a brand in that way, Like I just see it.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Oh, I've just have been consistently interested in

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Speaker 1: something and I have worked towards it. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: think that, you know, because when I was like talking

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Speaker 1: with my coach or whatever, they were suggesting, oh, go

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Speaker 1: into your LinkedIn and like you got to write like

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Speaker 1: a whole like novel about yourself, like you have to

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Speaker 1: tell people who you are and you know and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff. And I was like, that's so strange to me.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't have a problem with that, I guess

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Speaker 1: in theory, but it feels kind of strange to be

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Speaker 1: doing it on this website and it just feels like

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Speaker 1: a false environment. I guess that's maybe what it is.

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Speaker 1: And being encouraged to create a brand for yourself is

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Speaker 1: so bizarre to me.

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Speaker 3: It's and also it's it's very strange, and I don't again,

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Speaker 3: like I kind of always lean back.

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Speaker 2: On and what is.

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Speaker 3: This serving for me to create this brand versus me

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Speaker 3: just being a person who's like, here's here's here, here's

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Speaker 3: what I've done, Here's what I like, Here's what I

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Speaker 3: can give you. Is that not enough? Like I don't

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Speaker 3: know how to create a brand for myself, and I

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Speaker 3: also don't know who that's serving. It's not serving me,

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Speaker 3: so like is it just making it more? You're just

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Speaker 3: kind of turning yourself into like a bite sized chunk

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Speaker 3: that somebody can just digest really easily. Because that doesn't

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Speaker 3: feel right either, Like why don't you want to do

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Speaker 3: the work of getting to know who I am if

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Speaker 3: we're going to be working together well, And like I

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Speaker 3: don't know, I.

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Speaker 1: Keep going back and forth on whether or not it's

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Speaker 1: because we're just like fucking grumpy gen x ers that

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Speaker 1: this was like totally sus for so for us, like

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Speaker 1: it's in our DNA to be like suspect of brands

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Speaker 1: and things like that, and this is just like a

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Speaker 1: modern way of of selling yourself, you know, and and

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Speaker 1: explaining to employers like what you offer, but I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's so it's so strange.

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Speaker 3: Resumes have always sucked, let's just put it up like

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Speaker 3: having to write a resume or a CV has always sucked.

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Speaker 2: But there is that different.

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Speaker 3: I think that what you're feeling now is something that

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Speaker 3: I have felt, because let me put it to you

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Speaker 3: this way. Also, unless you get on like a modern

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Speaker 3: family type show as a TV writer, you're looking for

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Speaker 3: a job every six months. Like I'm constantly looking for

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Speaker 3: new jobs at least once or twice a year. And

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Speaker 3: thankfully I have a team of people that will help

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Speaker 3: me with that, Like I've an agent and a manager

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Speaker 3: who go out and find those jobs and bring them

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Speaker 3: to me and say, hey, do you want to do this?

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Speaker 3: But I'm still having to do the interviews where like

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Speaker 3: you have to talk to the person, and you have

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Speaker 3: to talk to the show run, you have talk to this,

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Speaker 3: you have to talk to that, and you still have

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Speaker 3: to sell yourself every few months to someone else.

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Speaker 2: And so I get it.

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Speaker 3: I get it, but it's also but that's why I

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Speaker 3: kind of question the branding aspect of it, because I'm like,

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Speaker 3: all right, I would rather have a conversation with someone

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Speaker 3: that's like, you know, and I like those conversations where

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Speaker 3: it's like, this is who I am.

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Speaker 2: You know, you already know what I've done.

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Speaker 3: This is more of a conversation about can we work together,

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Speaker 3: and that I'm comfortable with That feels less like, but

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Speaker 3: the branding of the like we don't even want to

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Speaker 3: know who you are unless you can show us some

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Speaker 3: razzle dazzle. That freaks me out. Yeah, Like it just

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Speaker 3: seems like it's a barrier to people even getting to

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Speaker 3: want to know if they want to hire you, Like,

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Speaker 3: it's just an extra hurdle that I think is unnecessary.

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Speaker 3: So I think you're your reaction is feels right to

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Speaker 3: me that like why am I going?

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Speaker 2: Why am I doing all of this?

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Speaker 3: I have no problem letting people know what I'm into

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Speaker 3: and who I am, and like, you are great on paper,

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Speaker 3: but you're also great in person, And I don't think

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Speaker 3: it's a problem for you to like get an interview

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Speaker 3: and talk to people.

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Speaker 2: That's not it.

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Speaker 3: It's just like why do I have to do this

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Speaker 3: hurdle like making myself more appealing to you?

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Speaker 1: Well? And like yeah, I mean, I gosh, the thing

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Speaker 1: that I I, it's not surprise necessarily, but I get

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Speaker 1: like this process of being unemployed and getting laid off

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Speaker 1: and everything is is just it's so emotional. It's like

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Speaker 1: an emotional time, and there's so many different thoughts. There's

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Speaker 1: so many different like things that you have to like

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Speaker 1: psyche yourself up for, you know, to just even like

359
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Speaker 1: get up and get going and you know, to organize

360
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Speaker 1: your day to not doom scroll jobs that are not

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Speaker 1: something that you can apply for, because that is something

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Speaker 1: that I was doing at the beginning where I was

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Speaker 1: just like I was almost confirming my own bias about things,

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Speaker 1: where I was like, see, there are no jobs. I'm

365
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Speaker 1: never going to find a job because I'd be scrolling

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Speaker 1: fucking healthcare jobs like the field that I don't even

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Speaker 1: work in at all, but they were coming up, you know,

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Speaker 1: as part of like a job search, like a really easy,

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Speaker 1: breezy job search on these websites, and I was just like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, like it's good, it's never gonna happen,

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00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,080
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah blah. In the same way that

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Speaker 1: you go on dating apps and you're just like all

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Speaker 1: these people I can't date, nobody writes me back and

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Speaker 1: I'm you know, it's it's the same instinct of rejection

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Speaker 1: or something like you're confirming your own rejection. And I

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Speaker 1: had to tell myself, like, get out of this because

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Speaker 1: you know, this is this is not serving you, and

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00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,679
Speaker 1: so no, and there's just so many things that I

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Speaker 1: have to like talk myself through, and you know, obviously,

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Speaker 1: like you still go to therapy and need to talk

381
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Speaker 1: to people, and but it's it's such a mixed bag

382
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Speaker 1: of emotions and it's I mean, I knew that it

383
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Speaker 1: was going to be intense, but I also didn't and yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, so.

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Speaker 3: Well I am like, like I said, I'm glad you're

386
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,680
Speaker 3: you're talking it out and talking it through in your

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Speaker 3: real life with therapists and friends, but also on here

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Speaker 3: because I think it is a whole new world and

389
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Speaker 3: it's very interesting and it's like there's there's a lot

390
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Speaker 3: of hardship that comes with being unemployed, and I think

391
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Speaker 3: a lot most of it is the emotional work of

392
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Speaker 3: trying to trying to feel okay every day basically like

393
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Speaker 3: trying to feel a sense of worth, trying to feel

394
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 3: a sense of purpose, trying to feel like you're not

395
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 3: you know, doom scrolling or just committing yourself to thinking

396
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 3: negatively about things all the time and like confirming your

397
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,920
Speaker 3: own bio. It's a lot of emotional work. It's a

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Speaker 3: lot of emotional work. And I think, you know, again,

399
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Speaker 3: I can't fault anyone for doing anything they can to

400
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Speaker 3: try to get out of that and get a job

401
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 3: and get get out of that cycle. But LinkedIn just

402
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,959
Speaker 3: sounds like I just question everything about who it's helping

403
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,679
Speaker 3: and who it's serving. If most people who use it

404
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:46,160
Speaker 3: feel like.

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Speaker 1: That, yeah, And I you know, I know that there

406
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 1: are people who love it and who have found success

407
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 1: with it. I mean, shit, I hope Tom, I'm still

408
00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 1: you know, like that's that's the thing is that like

409
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 1: a op, it helps, but it's it's just a weird

410
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 1: It's just a weird world, you know, and like the

411
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 1: whole like modern getting jobs in the modern era is

412
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Speaker 1: just so different from getting a job in the nineties or.

413
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Speaker 2: Like even the early two thousands, you know what I mean.

414
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 1: And so you know, but I also feel like taking

415
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 1: the stigma out of like talking about unemployment and just

416
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,680
Speaker 1: like the range of emotions is I feel like that

417
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 1: is important because I because it's it's not easy, and

418
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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have shame about not

419
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Speaker 1: working and getting laid off and that kind of stuff,

420
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Speaker 1: and I don't know, I just feel like it's it's

421
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: let's just be real about it and try to find

422
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Speaker 1: some funny things about it.

423
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Speaker 3: And you know, I don't know, Like, no, look, let's

424
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Speaker 3: create a website called clinked In where you have to

425
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 3: have champagne and like clink glasses every time you log in,

426
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,199
Speaker 3: and you just like one video Pip, It's like, what

427
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 3: was that that fucking chat roulette thing that used to

428
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 3: like you a pop up?

429
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 2: Let's do a clinked in chat roulette.

430
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 3: Somebody pops up, it's another job seeker and you're just

431
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 3: like drinking champagne or coffee or tea or whatever your

432
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 3: fucking drink is, and you just clink in and you're like.

433
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: What the fuck's up today?

434
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 2: Yeah?

435
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 3: I feel like shit too, or yeah this is great,

436
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 3: I feel awesome. Bye, And then another fucking video pops

437
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 3: up clinked.

438
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 1: In Yeah, and then I will and then I will

439
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: merge my business called pink Tin, where the singer Pink

440
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: comes on and just goes, I'm coming up, so you

441
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 1: bid it? Get this Potts doted like, that's all it is.

442
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: It's just her singing that to you to motivate you

443
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 1: to find a draw.

444
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 3: Pink acrobats into the screen on some kind of wire,

445
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 3: because you know, Pink loves a high wire. So it's

446
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 3: just out of nowhere, like a video, a blank screen

447
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 3: pops up and Pink just tumbles down, like tumbles.

448
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 1: Down from a fucking wire suspended in.

449
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: Mid air and saying.

450
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 3: That is a fucking that is a business. I can

451
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 3: get fine clinked in with pinked in.

452
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 1: I've never felt better, like honestly, between these two to

453
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: these two websites, being unemployed is so fun.

454
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,959
Speaker 2: Oh my god, well, oh good, I love it.

455
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 3: Also, I know, maybe we can save this for next

456
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 3: week because I know you saw Magic Mic and I

457
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 3: haven't seen it yet Magic Mike the third one, and

458
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 3: I'll tell you I have heard some things, so I'm

459
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 3: interested in your thoughts. Will save it for next week

460
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 3: maybe or for a bonus. But I'm not going to

461
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 3: see it yet, and I might not see it at

462
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 3: all because my man Steve Buscemi is not in it.

463
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 3: That's all I asked for. Can we get Steve bu

464
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 3: Semi naked? On screen somewhere you.

465
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: Are Hordy for Steve Busemi.

466
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 2: I got episode.

467
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: What the fuck?

468
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 2: Oh my, I'm too embarrassed.

469
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: I can't no, no, no, I don't be uh because I

470
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: have to tell you, like I think it's because Brendan

471
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: Frasier is back in the news, but that like, people

472
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 1: are posting photos from airheads. Do you remember airheads? Of

473
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: course I remember airheads, and I'm like, yo, these guys

474
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: all look good. Steve Buscemi and airheads. Damn. He often

475
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: has long Look.

476
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, if you, like me, have recently got

477
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 3: the hots received Semi. There is a Charlie Rose YouTube

478
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 3: video for you where he has very long hair and

479
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 3: he looks great.

480
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, look, okay, put him in magic Mic. That's

481
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: all I'm saying.

482
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 3: I don't think he would want to do it, but

483
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 3: I want to see a Buscemi version of Magic Mic.

484
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 2: And that's all I gotta say about Magic Mic.

485
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: Look, okay, we're gonna put this on a bonus episode.

486
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: We're recording one soon. We're definitely talking about this shit.

487
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: In the meantime, we have to workshop some kind of

488
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: Steve Buscemi theme for the podcast because you have to

489
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: exercise all of these all I've got.

490
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 3: I'm giving myself one more episode to talk it through.

491
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 3: I will not do this to you or our listeners,

492
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 3: or even myself for the rest of the year. So

493
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 3: we'll do one more episode. It is clear that I've

494
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 3: got the hots for that dude, and I'm giving myself

495
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,959
Speaker 3: one more one hour chunk to discuss it.

496
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 4: Put it.

497
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 1: That'll be like the penultimate, Like we'll just have it

498
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: in case and Amber for all of prosperity, prosperity, for

499
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: all of prosterity, prosterity, is it posterity?

500
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 2: Like we went through pros.

501
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 3: In a prosterity and knowing for is posterior posterity?

502
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Jesus Christ, too many ours.

503
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 1: It happens.

504
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: Too many urs.

505
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: We're talking about for it actually is. We're gonna have it,

506
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: and you know that'll be like kind of like your

507
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: final dance, your last dance.

508
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 3: Your last dance with Mary Jane. And let me tell

509
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 3: you it will. This is what always happens to me.

510
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: It always happens to me. This podcast is a blessing

511
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 3: and a curse in this way. Whenever I say I

512
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 3: have the hots for someone who works in the field

513
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 3: that I work in. Invariably, their name comes up in

514
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 3: some kind of interview or their name comes up in

515
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 3: some kind of a meeting, and I'm like, I can't

516
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 3: work with them because I just went hard for two

517
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 3: hours on.

518
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 2: How hot I think they are. I know it happens

519
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 2: every fucking time.

520
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just utter the name and the next thing

521
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: you know, you're about to have a meeting with them

522
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 1: and you're like, I can't, I can't, I can't do it.

523
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: We can't work together because I just talked about your

524
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: boner for an.

525
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 3: Hour, Like, how about he directs this thing? And I'm like,

526
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 3: get another writer because I can't. I have now dug

527
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 3: a hole, a boner hole for myself.

528
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: That I can't get out of.

529
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 3: We are doing this episode, let's do how about we

530
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 3: do this episode, the one that we have prepped for today.

531
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Yeah, So let's talk about our theme

532
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: this week, Danielle.

533
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 3: Okay, and we do have to talk about it. So

534
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 3: our theme this week is Papa can you hear me?

535
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 3: And the reason I need to talk this out is

536
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 3: because I kind of as I was watching my movie,

537
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 3: I was like, wait, I think I was going for

538
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 3: something more lighthearted when I suggested this theme, and then

539
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 3: I picked the darkest possible movie.

540
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 2: For this theme.

541
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: But I think what we originally were going for were

542
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 3: movies where teenage girls were kind of at odds with

543
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 3: the parents or the dads. Yes, and I just have

544
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 3: to apologize for yours is so lighthearted and within the theme,

545
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,239
Speaker 3: within the bounds of the theme, and then I have

546
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 3: to apologize for taking it to the darkest possible fucking place.

547
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: Listen, I I now you're just you know, returning the

548
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: favor of me picking all that jazz for this, you know,

549
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: like Afternoon on the Couch with a cold theme. So

550
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, we always have that sometimes, like

551
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: the theme is like iron out and we know what

552
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: it is, but then we just go real fucking dark,

553
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: and I don't know, it happens.

554
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 3: Sometimes we just want to talk about these dark fucking

555
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 3: movies and it just but I'm I'm I still love

556
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 3: this theme, and I promise if we do this theme again,

557
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: I will match the energy of the theme with the

558
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 3: lightheartedness with which we we originally conceived of it. Yeah,

559
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 3: but I'm saided because I think there are there are

560
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 3: definitely a lot of movies where that we could have

561
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,239
Speaker 3: chosen for this, And I think there are definitely a

562
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: lot of films where we're kind of showing teenage girls

563
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 3: in a particular way that's like Braddy or shitty.

564
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: And I feel like the movies that we.

565
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 3: Kind of gravitate towards that would fit in this theme

566
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 3: are more kind of showing the full scope of humanity

567
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 3: of a teenage girl and like treating them like full

568
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 3: human beings. So I'm kind of psyched that we we

569
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 3: came up with this.

570
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I will say too, I mean, to your

571
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,719
Speaker 1: work Reddit, I think my film it is fun, but

572
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: I think it could be dark at times, and you know,

573
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: maybe we can talk about that a little bit. I mean,

574
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: it deals with like the emotions and you know, mental

575
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: states of young girls, and so you know, it's like

576
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: it's not I mean, I think it's the movie itself

577
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: is presented in this very fun package with lots of

578
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: cool music and everything, but I think there's kind of

579
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: there's some darkness there. So absolutely, maybe it's not all.

580
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: You know, maybe these two films are dark films being

581
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: put together in a weird I think they.

582
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: Compliment each other really nicely.

583
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: I really do well. And I have to say, I mean,

584
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: if we just talk about your movie for the entire episode,

585
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: I am totally chill with that because it's obviously a

586
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: first watch for me. I actually didn't know anything about

587
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: the crime that it's based off of at all. I

588
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: don't know anything, and I am fucking ready to talk

589
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: about it with you.

590
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 3: So really nothing at all.

591
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: I think i'd heard of her name, you know, just

592
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: had heard the name, but I didn't know anything about

593
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: the crime, anything about the details. And then, you know,

594
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: just knowing that your film has so many like you know, famous,

595
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: really talented actors, and it is it's just interesting. This

596
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: is whole this whole thing is so interesting to me.

597
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 2: So I can't wait to talk about it.

598
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 3: Well, we are going to get into it first and foremost,

599
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 3: and if you are watching this as a true double feature,

600
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: I do suggest watching mine first so you have a

601
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 3: little bit of a kicker with Millie's movie. So my

602
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 3: film was released in two thousand and seven. It was

603
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 3: written by Tommy o havea and Irene Turner and directed

604
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 3: by Tommy o' have My film is an American crime.

605
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: How long until Sylvia is out of the basement?

606
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: Until she learns her lesses.

607
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 3: So, as always, I'm going to start right out by saying,

608
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 3: this is not a true crime podcast.

609
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 2: I am presenting a.

610
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 3: Movie that is based on a true crime, but it

611
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 3: is not a documentary, and I will do my best

612
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 3: to honor the subject. But do not come at me

613
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 3: for your weird arbitrary This is how we talk about

614
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 3: true crime statistics that I'm not aware of because that's

615
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 3: just not my bag. So I'm sorry, sorry if you

616
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 3: don't need to hear that disclaimer, but some of you do.

617
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 3: And I know that we are currently sitting in the

618
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,239
Speaker 3: house that my favorite murder built, so you're like, how

619
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 3: dare she saying she's not gonna talk about it in

620
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 3: the right way. I'm gonna do my best, But I

621
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 3: will also say that Karen and Georgia did an episode

622
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: on My Crime.

623
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 2: It's episode sixteen.

624
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 3: It's Shonda lev and Sylvia Lichens, and that is a

625
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 3: great episode to listen to if you do want to

626
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 3: hear about the true crime in the true crime way

627
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 3: that you're used to hearing about it and not in

628
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: the movie reviewer way that I'm going to talk about.

629
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 3: So just again, some of you don't know most of

630
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 3: you don't need to hear that, but some of you

631
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 3: have already got your type and fingers ready, and I'm

632
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 3: going to tell you to just take a nap, have

633
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 3: a cup of tea instead, and just listen. So with

634
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 3: that in mind, though, I will say that this film

635
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 3: has stuck with me from the first time I saw

636
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 3: it in two thousand and seven. I think a large

637
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 3: part of it is that the horror of the true

638
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 3: crime has stuck with me. But I also think that

639
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 3: Elliott Page is such a great actor, and he's always

640
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 3: been able to He's the kind of actor that whenever

641
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 3: he cries, I'm crying, Like he is so emotionally keyed

642
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 3: into these characters that he's playing that I can't help

643
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 3: but have a reaction and an emotion, and I just

644
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 3: I love it. I think he's such a great actor

645
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 3: in general, but in that way in particular, like eliciting emotion,

646
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: and I think that's what was necessary for this character,

647
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 3: because the story is so horrific that you really needed

648
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 3: someone to kind of pull you into the story to

649
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 3: empathize with.

650
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've.

651
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: Never seen this film before. How many nightmares did you have?

652
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: One hundred and twenty five? Like it was I I

653
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: don't know why, I like, I need to not watch

654
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: your movies at night, Like that would be a hard

655
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: fast rule for my life. I'm always watching your movies

656
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: at night, late at night, like usually, like I don't

657
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: sometimes I don't get cracking on your film till like

658
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: ten pm.

659
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: Oh that's a big mistake.

660
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: And I'm looking ahead at the calendar and telling you

661
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 3: better be watching these at noon.

662
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: Damn.

663
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: I need another two months, at least another two months.

664
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: I know. And again I was like, why did I do? This?

665
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: Is like the fifth or sixth time that I had

666
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: a sleepless night because of your fucking movie. But you know,

667
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: but then also, I mean, you know, part of it

668
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: is that too. I of course I had to like

669
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: go down the research hole, you know totally, and all

670
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: I all I did. All I have to say is

671
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: all I did was read the Wikipedia that.

672
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 2: Was which is bad enough? Bad enough?

673
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: Is bad it is? Yeah, I was shocked by how

674
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: detailed it was, just the Wikipedia article. But it's like again,

675
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: like now I'm gonna go listen to Karen and Georgie

676
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: talk about it. Of course I'm gonna do a little

677
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: bit more of that.

678
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean.

679
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: Like, and to me, I didn't. I didn't realize that

680
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: I didn't really know anything about the movie at all

681
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: and who was in it. But then and I saw,

682
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: oh it's Elliott Page and Catherine Keener, I was like,

683
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: holy shit, how did I miss this movie? Because I

684
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: love Katherine Keener. So it's like absolutely, you know, and

685
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: it's because you were in that two thousand and seven

686
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: k hole.

687
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 3: We're like, it's two thousand and seven in reality, but

688
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: in my film Watching Life, it's nineteen sixty seven.

689
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know everybody knows that in the two thousands

690
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: I lived inside of a rock in France with the

691
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: two women who were allergic to five G. I just

692
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: like completely checked out of I was off the grid.

693
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: I don't know why I don't watch the movie. I

694
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: never watched all these movies from the two thousands or later.

695
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: It's crazy I was off the grid.

696
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 3: Well, I'm at once pleased and apologetic that I was

697
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 3: the one who had introduced you to this film.

698
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 2: Of course, and give you yet another nightmare.

699
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 3: But it is such a it's a fascinating and horrific story,

700
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna again rarely do this but give a

701
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 3: disclaimer that this move and this discussion that we're going

702
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 3: to have involves a lot of intense child abuse. So

703
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 3: if that is not your bag, you do not have

704
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 3: to listen, and we respect that fully. And I'm not

705
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 3: going to go into great detail about the facts of

706
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: the abuse because I don't like to glorify that kind

707
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 3: of thing. I am also a survivor of child abuse,

708
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 3: not to this extent, but I don't think we need

709
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 3: the gory details to kind of drive home the nature

710
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 3: of the story. But if you don't want to hear

711
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: about it at all, totally fine. Just want to throw

712
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 3: that out there. So before I talk about the film,

713
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: even though I gave a big disclaimer about how this

714
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 3: isn't a true crime podcast, I do think that I

715
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 3: want to give some some I do want to honor

716
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 3: the story in some way by telling you about the

717
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: real people involved. My first my first fact, which is

718
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,439
Speaker 3: it still blows I cannot believe. It still blows my mind.

719
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 3: And this might help with your nightmare situation. The movie

720
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 3: that the director Tommy O Haver did directly before this

721
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 3: was Ella Enchanted, So just put that in your head

722
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 3: that you went from Ella Enchanted to this.

723
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: Wow, quite a shift A shift.

724
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 2: White, I mean one eight, like you wouldn't believe.

725
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 3: And so this is the story in American Crime is

726
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 3: a true story of Sylvia Lichens as l I. K. E. Ns,

727
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 3: who was born January thirteenth, nineteen forty nine, and she

728
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 3: was the third of five children born to her parents,

729
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 3: Lester and Betty Lichens. The family really struggled financially and

730
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 3: her parents kind of had an unstable marriage, you know,

731
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 3: times of bitterness and unhappiness, but stayed together and they

732
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 3: often worked the carnival circuit. They worked in food concessions

733
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 3: on the carnival circuit to make a living. And Sylvia

734
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 3: was born in between two sets of fraternal twins, which

735
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 3: I think is interesting. So her other siblings were twins

736
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 3: and then she was right in the middle, and she

737
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: and her sister Jenny were often discouraged from working the

738
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 3: carnival circuit, ironically because her parents were very concerned with

739
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 3: her safety and education. H so heartbreaking. So Sylvia Lichens

740
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 3: was described as a very pretty girl, very confident. She

741
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 3: loved music, she particularly liked the Beatles, and she was

742
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: incredibly protective of her sister Jenny, who had polio and

743
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 3: walked with a brace, but by all accounts, she was

744
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 3: incredibly confident. Her friends called her Cookie, and she kind

745
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 3: of she smiled with her her mouth closed because she

746
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 3: was missing a front tooth due to a fight she

747
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 3: had had with one of her brothers, Like she and

748
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 3: her brother were tussling around, and she lost a tooth

749
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 3: when she was about seven years old. But just like

750
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 3: you know, you look at the pictures of her, and

751
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 3: she was just very just your typical nineteen sixties teenage

752
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 3: girl by all accounts. And at one point her father, Lester,

753
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 3: arranged for the girls to live with Gertrude Benerjeski in Indianapolis,

754
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 3: and Jenny and Sylvia moved in shortly after July fourth

755
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty five, where over time, you know, they'd

756
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 3: only live with her for a few months and it

757
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 3: would be the worst three to four month stretch of

758
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: anyone's that anyone could possibly imagine. And the reason that

759
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 3: her parents decided to leave her with Gertrude is that

760
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 3: Gertrude already had children of her own. Gertrude had seven

761
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 3: children and was kind of like, yeah, like there's a

762
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 3: lot of kids in this house, and I can take

763
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 3: care of them. And Gertrude was she was ill, She

764
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 3: had some respiratory illness and asthma, and she took in

765
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 3: laundry to make a living, but it wasn't really kind

766
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 3: of cutting it. So she decided to take in Sylvia

767
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 3: and Jenny, primarily for the twenty dollars paycheck that she

768
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 3: would get every couple of weeks for taking care of

769
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 3: the girls. But it seemed like they would fit right in,

770
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 3: and that's not the case. So what happened over time,

771
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 3: very quickly. Over the first couple of weeks were fine.

772
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 3: You know, Sylvia helped her in the house. And so

773
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 3: Gertrude had seven children. Paula was seventeen, John was twelve,

774
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 3: Stephanie fifteen, Marie eleven, Shirley ten, and James and Dennis,

775
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: who was eighteen months. And the reason I mentioned the

776
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 3: children's first names and their ages is because they will

777
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 3: come into play in the story as we go on.

778
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 3: So Sylvia and Jenny kind of had a lot of

779
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 3: ways to fit into this family.

780
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 2: There were children their.

781
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 3: Own age, there were you know, girls their own age,

782
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 3: and they were helpful around the house and they just

783
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 3: you know, it was kind of like an adventure for them.

784
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 3: They were used to being left with relatives because again,

785
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 3: their parents traveled for work and left them with relatives

786
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 3: a lot, so it didn't seem that out of sorts,

787
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 3: even though they didn't know Gertrude that they would be

788
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 3: kind of left to be cared for at someone else's house.

789
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 3: The other thing I will say as we go through

790
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 3: this story is just keep in mind the timeframe we're

791
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: dealing with here, because I know that you're going to

792
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 3: have a reaction that's.

793
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 1: Like, why didn't they do this? Why didn't they do that?

794
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 3: It was nineteen sixty five, and I think the way

795
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 3: that they portray it in the film is pretty accurate

796
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 3: that there were just certain social constructs in place that

797
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 3: made it that made something like this more possible. So

798
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 3: just keep that in mind. So the girls were living

799
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 3: with Gertrude. Everything's fine. One week, Lester's check doesn't come,

800
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 3: and Gertrude's reaction is to beat the girl, to beat

801
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 3: the girls, and she starts to beat Jenny, and Sylvia

802
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 3: can't take it because Jenny can't take Jenny can't take it,

803
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,720
Speaker 3: so she said, I'll take hers. That's how they present

804
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 3: it in the movie, and Sylvia gets a beating, and

805
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 3: even though the check arrives the very next day, the

806
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: way that it's kind of portrayed, both in the court

807
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 3: transcripts and in the film is that the wheels of

808
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,720
Speaker 3: abuse were already in motion then at that point.

809
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 2: And there's also a.

810
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 3: Point in the film where you realize that Gertrude's own

811
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 3: children had been subjected.

812
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 2: To her abuse for years.

813
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 3: So when things certain things are happening to Sylvia, the

814
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,439
Speaker 3: kids are like, well, that's just kind of what mom does.

815
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 3: Like mom just kind of puts cigarettes out on you

816
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 3: when she's upset. So they've already experienced that is a

817
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 3: house that was just rife with abuse already.

818
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: And in the movie it seemed that there was a

819
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: lot of this like kind of religious angle to it too. Absolutely,

820
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was like that. I mean,

821
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure it probably was in the real story, but

822
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: that just always, I don't know, it just always like

823
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: freaks me out when it kind of reminded me a

824
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: little bit of when we talked about Frailty, right, you know,

825
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 1: during that that Father's Day episode with the Bill Paxson,

826
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: you know, character who was kind of invoking all of

827
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: this religious stuff in order to like justify crimes and

828
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: abuse and that kind of stuff. It just it's just

829
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: always very disturbing to me when that happens.

830
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, because this is a this is a family.

831
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 3: And Sylvia and Jenny went to Sunday School and they

832
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,399
Speaker 3: went to church, and you know, and Gertrude did as well,

833
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 3: and her kids did as well. And there was always

834
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 3: that kind of that that sheen, that kind of pallor

835
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 3: of religion that was supposed to excuse any bad behavior.

836
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 3: But how do you excuse bad behavior when it turned

837
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 3: and murderous? You know, It's just it is interesting the

838
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 3: lengths that people will go to, or the way that

839
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 3: it's shown in this film as the lengths people will

840
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 3: go to to use religion as an excuse. And it's

841
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 3: just and again it's it's becomes more sinister when you

842
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 3: realize that, you know, God won't help Sylvia, Nothing will

843
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 3: help Sylvia, and she loses her faith in very quickly,

844
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 3: loses her faith in God and.

845
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 2: The world around her.

846
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 3: So a lot of what I've the information that I've

847
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 3: pulld for this is from an article in the Indie

848
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,439
Speaker 3: Star I n d Y Star by Don Wright wrote

849
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 3: an article about the history of this case. There's also books.

850
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 3: There are books on the case, there are other podcasts

851
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 3: who have covered the case. There's a lot of information

852
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 3: out there. But I found that article from the Indie

853
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 3: Star and the combination of you know things I found

854
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 3: on Wikipedia to be to kind of create the most

855
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 3: the fullest picture of what happened. So the girls are

856
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 3: living with Gertrude and her family, the abuse begins, Sylvia's

857
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 3: taking the brunt of it, and even though again I

858
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 3: don't want to get too much into the abuse, it

859
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 3: escalates so quickly from neglect and beatings with a belt

860
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 3: to Sylvia being belittled and sexually humiliated, beaten, starved, cut burned,

861
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 3: and dehydrated by her tormentors. Her autopsy showed one hundred

862
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 3: and fifty wounds across her body, including several burns, scald marks,

863
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 3: and eroded skin. And it's again horrific. But one thing

864
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 3: that I kind of questioned in the beginning until I

865
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: saw it play out in the film is what about Jenny.

866
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 3: And unfortunately, in real life, Jenny was intimidated into occasionally

867
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,839
Speaker 3: participating in her own sister's torment and you can see

868
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 3: in the film. And then I'm going to talk about

869
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 3: the film specifically in a minute, But you can see

870
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 3: in the film where Gertrude starts to groom Jenny in

871
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 3: a way that's like, you know, you don't want to

872
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 3: be like your sister, kind of using fear and intimidation

873
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 3: to kind of showcase like, well, if you don't do

874
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 3: what I say, then you're next or this could happen

875
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 3: to you as well. So that's just again a heartbreaking detail.

876
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 3: So this horrible abuse happens over the course of a

877
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 3: few months, a couple of months, and when Benazouski realizes

878
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 3: that Sylvia is dying or might be dying, she forced

879
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 3: her to write a note saying that a bunch of

880
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 3: boys had beat her and that she was like at

881
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 3: a sex party in the woods or something like that.

882
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 3: And the plan, again this comes from the indie Star.

883
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 3: The plan was to blindfold her and dump her in

884
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 3: the nearby woods with a note. But Sylvia tried to escape,

885
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 3: and Gertrude and one of her voice stopped her and

886
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 3: beat her again and through back in the basement, and

887
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 3: Sylvia tried to escape a couple of times. Because again

888
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 3: that's a question that will come up for you, I'm

889
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 3: sure as you're reading about this case, or listening to

890
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 3: a podcast or watching this film, why didn't she.

891
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 2: Try to escape? In the end, she did.

892
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 3: She tried to escape a couple of times, but because

893
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 3: she was so malnourished and her body was in such

894
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 3: terrible shape and she couldn't do it. She physically could

895
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 3: not escape even though she made her best effort to

896
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 3: escape in the end, when she realized that she was

897
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 3: essentially going to be killed. Sylvia Lichens died on October

898
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 3: twenty sixth, nineteen sixty five. The official cause of her

899
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 3: death was homicide, caused by a combination of internal hemorrhaging,

900
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 3: brain swelling, shock, and severe malnutrition, as well as the

901
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 3: extensive damage to her skin. And she was buried in

902
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 3: the Oak Hill Cemetery in Lebanon, and her gravestone says

903
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 3: epitaph is our darling daughter. So the shockwaves of this

904
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 3: case were felt far and wide. Again, this is nineteen

905
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 3: sixty five, and there are things about the case that

906
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 3: in one way you think, well, this could have very

907
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 3: easily just been a case that disappeared out of the news.

908
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 3: But as the Indie Star points out, the few things

909
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 3: that make this case indelible and unforgettable are a few

910
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 3: key items on the first being that the abuse was

911
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 3: not just carried out by Gertrude, her own children, some

912
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 3: of them again as young as ten years old, and

913
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:47,720
Speaker 3: other children in the neighborhood for weeks and even months

914
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 3: contributed to the torture of Sylvia as if it was

915
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 3: casual entertainment. So again, according to the Indie Star, the

916
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 3: quote here is that it was something to do in

917
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 3: the afternoon before dinner or favor TV shows. At least

918
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 3: a dozen children participated or at least watched, and none

919
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 3: felt sufficiently disturbed to tell their own parents. Other adults

920
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 3: occasionally came to the Banuzuski house for certain reasons, and

921
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 3: they saw Sylvia's battered state, and again, nobody pushed for

922
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 3: her safety. Nobody pushed to ask any questions. The neighbors

923
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 3: routinely reported. After this case came out and was revealed,

924
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 3: the neighbors reported that, yes, they heard screaming, yes they

925
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 3: saw her trying to escape.

926
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 2: Nobody did anything.

927
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 3: And again, you know, Sylvia and her younger sister had

928
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 3: opportunities to tell adults at church or at school, and

929
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 3: neither said a word because they thought it would only

930
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 3: make things worse. So they were in such a state

931
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 3: of abuse that they could not and didn't see a

932
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 3: way to supplying their ow safety. So again, it's just

933
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 3: truly horrific in every possible way. And Sylvia's death was

934
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 3: just a spectacular failure of multiple people on several accounts,

935
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 3: but particularly that Gertrude Banerzuski was just a monstrous person

936
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 3: who had no business taking these two.

937
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 2: Girls in to begin with.

938
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: So in the film there is we start the film

939
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: with the trial essentially because there was a trial that

940
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 3: happened after all of this came to light, and Gertrude

941
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 3: claimed that she wasn't guilty and she was kind of like, oh,

942
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 3: my kids must have done it, Like she was just

943
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 3: fully unwilling to admit what happened, and she maintained that

944
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 3: posture until a couple of years before her death. But

945
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 3: she was convicted of first degree murder, and her daughter

946
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 3: Paula was also convicted and found guilty of second degree murder.

947
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 3: Richard haw Ricky Hobbes, who was the neighbor who particularly

948
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:07,720
Speaker 3: who participated in the mutilation of Sylvia Lichen's body, along

949
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 3: with John again Benarzuski's son ten year old son and

950
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 3: another neighborhood boy, Croy Hubbard. They were all convicted of

951
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 3: manslaughter and Gertrude would Sentrud and Paula were sentenced to

952
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 3: life at the Indiana Women's Prison in Indianapolis. The two

953
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 3: the boys were sentenced to kind of two yeared to

954
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:32,720
Speaker 3: twenty one year terms in Pendleton, but Paula pleaded guilty

955
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 3: to the lesser charge and she served about two years

956
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 3: in prison. The three boys were released on parole for

957
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 3: good behavior in nineteen sixty eight after serving about two

958
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 3: years of their sentence, and Gertrude was released from prison

959
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 3: five years before her death. And I don't think anyone

960
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 3: involved in this case served enough time for what they

961
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 3: did to this girl in real life. So it's interesting

962
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 3: that the film starts out with the court case, because

963
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 3: what we're watching at first is is again just kind

964
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 3: of we're just jumping into the story and watching all

965
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 3: of these children on the stand recounting what happened, and

966
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 3: so it's instantly very disturbing. But the film does such

967
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 3: a good job of showcasing kind of how these two

968
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 3: girls became kind of intertwined with Gertrude's family, and also

969
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 3: really showcased right off the bat that Gertrude was really

970
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 3: jealous of Sylvia. She was really Paula was kind of

971
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 3: jealous of Sylvia. They had their own struggles going on

972
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 3: and just kind of used Sylvia as a scapegoat.

973
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: But I thought the film did a.

974
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 3: Good job of kind of setting up the tone of

975
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 3: you know, we're in why are we looking at this

976
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 3: court case with all these children as witnesses, and then

977
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 3: when you realize what the children witnessed, it's like a

978
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 3: turns simultaneously heartbreaking and so hit of your stomach, disgusting.

979
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 3: And part of the reason I think this film really

980
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 3: hit home with me and stuck with me, and I

981
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 3: think that, you know, Tommy Ohaer did a good job

982
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 3: with it, is that the cast is incredible. So Bradley

983
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 3: Whitford plays the district attorney who's prosecuting, Katherine Keener plays Gertrude. Again,

984
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 3: we're I'm not used to seeing Katherine Keener be such

985
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 3: a mean, cold hearted bitch, and it was shocking, and

986
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 3: she plays it with a lot of you know, she

987
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 3: kind of brings a characteristic warmth to certain parts of

988
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 3: the film, like when she's talking about her baby and

989
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 3: the baby's father, and like she does bring a bit

990
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 3: of herself to it, but it's not that kind of witty,

991
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,240
Speaker 3: whip smart, funny Katherine Keener that I'm used to seeing.

992
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it's interesting that, you know,

993
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 1: it's like, first of all, Bradley Woodford and Katherine Keener

994
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: would be the parents and get out like many years

995
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: completely completely, yeah, which I think is really really interesting

996
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: to see them together in this movie. The thing about

997
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:06,359
Speaker 1: Katherine Keener playing this woman, this ghoul, right, it was

998
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: like hard for me to see, Like there was a

999
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: moment where I was like, yes, I mean everybody thinks

1000
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: Catherine Keener is like such a warm, funny individual and

1001
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to really portray an evil character like

1002
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: like in that way. Like you know, as an actor,

1003
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: it's probably like you probably have to steal yourself up

1004
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: to play a character like this. I think for me

1005
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: it was like, wow, she's really nasty. And then but

1006
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 1: I think Katherine Keener really portrayed the I think it

1007
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: just felt like an exhaustion. Yeah, she kind of like

1008
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: was like communicating that this woman, like this character in

1009
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: the movie, like was totally fed up with like her

1010
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: life and her kids and her failed relationships. And I'm

1011
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: not saying that that excuses what subsequently happened, but I'm

1012
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: just saying that, like Catherine Keener as a performer, I

1013
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,800
Speaker 1: think was able to really like lock.

1014
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 2: In on that absolutely and it helped.

1015
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 3: And I think we needed that because again, when you're

1016
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 3: looking at the real facts of the case and looking

1017
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 3: at the real people involved, I'm not sympathetic at all,

1018
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 3: and I'm not saying I'm even sympathetic to this woman

1019
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 3: as portrayed by Catherine Keener, but she gave us a

1020
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 3: way into understanding how something could escalate so violently so quickly,

1021
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,879
Speaker 3: and I needed that, like I needed to understand, like, well,

1022
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 3: was there.

1023
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 2: Ever any humanity there is?

1024
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 3: She always just been this monster, And I think she

1025
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 3: did that more than me reading facts about the people

1026
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 3: involved in the case.

1027
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: I would agree with that for sure. And it kind

1028
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 1: of goes back to these conversations that we have sometimes

1029
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: about movies where sometimes you watch a film involving horrific

1030
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,240
Speaker 1: things happening, you know. We talked about it with American Psycho.

1031
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: We talked about it with Clockwork Orange, where it's like,

1032
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: sometimes the movie doesn't give you a backstory about this

1033
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: evil person, this evil character, and that's really hard to

1034
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: deal with. And I think this is a perfect example,

1035
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: right because you're just like, how could this woman be

1036
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: so terrible to these to these to these children, you know,

1037
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:36,879
Speaker 1: And yet I felt like the movie in a way

1038
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,439
Speaker 1: had to go there, had to kind of explain what

1039
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 1: her in her life was a little bit like, because

1040
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 1: otherwise there would just be like so horrifically sad and

1041
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: fucked up, you.

1042
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 3: Know, absolutely, absolutely, yeah, we needed that. I think it's

1043
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 3: and again it's it's does such a great job of

1044
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 3: balancing the two where you don't have sympathy for gird

1045
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 3: but you can understand because I found that, like, if

1046
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 3: I were watching this film and asking that question the

1047
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 3: entire time, it would have taken away from my ability

1048
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,720
Speaker 3: to focus on what was happening in the film. Yeah,

1049
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 3: so I'm kind of glad that they did that as

1050
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 3: a way to just kind of help you again, kind

1051
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 3: of lock in and focus on what was going on.

1052
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: And it is again it's a rough house.

1053
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 3: And I think that the way that it was set

1054
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 3: up in the film is that Paula has been dating

1055
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 3: this married man and he breaks it off right as

1056
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 3: she discovers that she's pregnant, and so she confides in

1057
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 3: Sylvia and kind of says, you know, please don't tell anyone,

1058
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 3: but I'm pregnant.

1059
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 2: I'm having a hard time.

1060
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 3: And when Sylvia catches this guy really abusing and kind

1061
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 3: of roughing Paula up, she stops him by saying she's pregnant,

1062
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 3: and Ricky overhears it. And Ricky is played by Evan Peters.

1063
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 3: And again, if this is if you need any more confirmation,

1064
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 3: Evan Peters was born to be the creepiest actor alive,

1065
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 3: like even as like a chubby little guy in the sixties,

1066
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 3: like playing this character, he was born to creep and

1067
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 3: he can't help it. It's in his DNA, born to creep.

1068
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 3: But he overhears, and then the rumors starts swirling around town.

1069
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 3: And again, it's nineteen sixty five, So just imagine, this

1070
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 3: is the worst possible thing that somebody could say about you.

1071
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 3: Is that not just that you've had sex, not that

1072
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 3: you're dating a married man, it's that you're pregnant. So

1073
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 3: Paula's way of dealing with it in the film is

1074
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 3: kind of a very childish way of dealing it with it.

1075
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 3: Which is she goes home and is crying and upset

1076
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 3: and tells Gertrude that Sylvia has been spreading rumors about her,

1077
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 3: and Gertrude's unhinged way of dealing with that is to

1078
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 3: punish Sylvia, and again, she's already punished her for the

1079
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 3: fact that the check was one day late, and when

1080
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 3: she starts or it's hearing that Sylvia is kind of

1081
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 3: denigrating her family members, she's pushed over the edge and

1082
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 3: she push she or she pushes it over the edge,

1083
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 3: I should say. And it's really it's kind of heartbreaking

1084
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 3: because the whole time that it's happening, again, Elliott Page

1085
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 3: is such a great fucking actor, and the whole time

1086
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 3: that it's happening, he's just really emoting that he's sorry,

1087
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 3: but he's also kind of like, why am I apologizing

1088
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 3: for telling the truth? Why am I apologizing for helping

1089
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 3: to save your daughter from being attacked? Like there's this

1090
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 3: real emotional upheaval happening in him as he's you know,

1091
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 3: kind of portraying this, this portraying the character of Sylvia.

1092
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 3: That was just so heartbreaking because you're like, yeah, I

1093
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 3: understand being a child or being younger and not understanding

1094
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 3: why the world is reacting to me in this way

1095
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 3: or why what I did was wrong. But I'm also

1096
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:55,919
Speaker 3: living in a society where all I can do is apologize.

1097
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 3: Nobody actually cares about my feelings or the truth, and

1098
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 3: it's just so a conflicted place to be. And plus,

1099
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,440
Speaker 3: you know, Sylvia is trying to protect her sister Jenny

1100
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 3: this whole time, so it's just this real turmoil. But

1101
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 3: it kicks off in such an intense way. And again,

1102
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 3: like the after the rumor mill gets started about Paula's pregnancy,

1103
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 3: you know, they try to call their parents and they're

1104
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 3: not able to kind of get out the fact that

1105
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 3: everything is not okay. And then Gertie starts grooming Ricky

1106
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 3: in a weird way, like giving him cigarettes and talking

1107
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 3: about how how she also used to be pretty as

1108
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 3: pretty as Sylvia, And it's like a very strange scene

1109
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 3: to see them on the couch kind of, but you're

1110
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 3: watching basically this woman exert power over all the children

1111
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 3: in her life in various ways, so that eventually, when

1112
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 3: it comes time to abuse Sylvia, the excuse that John

1113
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 3: gives as he's unlocking the basement door and leading children

1114
01:00:55,880 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 3: down there to the basement to abuse Sylvia Is said,

1115
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 3: we can.

1116
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: Oh, that was really hard. That's a really hard scene,

1117
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: like that scene in the basement with the kids that

1118
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 1: are going down there to basically I mean it's like

1119
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: a I mean talk about the carnival. I mean, it's

1120
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: like a show. It's like a fucking show for them.

1121
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 1: I was like, this is like rough to watch in

1122
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:29,919
Speaker 1: a narrative film, you know what I mean, Like even

1123
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: in a narrative film where there's a moment where there's

1124
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 1: a girl who kind of like like walks into the

1125
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: scene of Sylvia and then they're like putting cigarettes out

1126
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 1: on her and they're like, like, I think is it John?

1127
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: Is that the boy that's like yep, kind of encouraging

1128
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: this other like much older girl to put a cigarette

1129
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:03,919
Speaker 1: out on Sylvia? And it is that thing where he's

1130
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: like what are you like a fucking chicken? Like do it?

1131
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 1: And then the other kids are like normalized and it's oh, sorry,

1132
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:12,040
Speaker 1: we do it all the time, Like mom says, it's okay,

1133
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: and I'm just like yo, that feeling, and like I

1134
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: think the movie did a good job in that moment,

1135
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 1: in that scene to look to like it really captured

1136
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 1: that kind of quandary of this girl because there were

1137
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: times I think in childhood I'm not saying to this

1138
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 1: degree obviously where you knew something was fucked up and

1139
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: you knew something was bad, but then you have this

1140
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: peer pressure of participating in something. And like the actress

1141
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 1: who played this girl, I know, she was just like

1142
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: a you know, a small character in the film, but

1143
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 1: it was like a way, in a way like maybe

1144
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: able to you know, telegraph that that notion of just

1145
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 1: being like, here are kids who are doing this horrible

1146
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 1: thing and they're conflicted. Some of them are conflicted about

1147
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: it and some of them aren't right, and they were

1148
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 1: just like, wow, that is so interesting.

1149
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 3: So it's absolutely fascinating, and it's again like to show

1150
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 3: to show it in such a carnival, And again I

1151
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 3: thought the film did a great job of this. They

1152
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 3: showed it in a way that you were aware that

1153
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 3: to these children, Sylvia was a sideshow freak. You know,

1154
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 3: they were going to the carnival to participate in the

1155
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 3: in the action of abusing this girl, but it wasn't

1156
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:42,919
Speaker 3: registering to them as this is something that is we're

1157
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 3: not supposed to be doing like it was just strange

1158
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 3: to see the turn and how it was filmed and

1159
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 3: what they were showing, and that you could get that

1160
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 3: kind of distorted view, like the shots became very like

1161
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 3: you know, they were shooting from underneath, and it kind

1162
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 3: of looked like a real side show in that moment,

1163
01:03:58,040 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 3: And it was a real turning point for the film

1164
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 3: because you understood that, like, there's something happening here that

1165
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 3: is perverse and has perverted these children and where they

1166
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 3: can't tell or they're not able to act upon right

1167
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 3: from wrong, and they're justifying this abuse and it's just

1168
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 3: absolutely horrific to see. And you know, in the movie,

1169
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 3: Gertie tells everyone that they have to lie and say

1170
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 3: that Sylvia was sent to Juvie, but they actually just

1171
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 3: locker in the basement, and you know, it's just again

1172
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 3: like this, the series of abuse that's happening to everyone

1173
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 3: in that house and the level of abuse that's happening

1174
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 3: to Sylvia is unfathomable. It's truly and imagine this, it's

1175
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:44,479
Speaker 3: unfathomable to me. Now imagine that's happening in nineteen sixty five.

1176
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 3: So I thought the film did a really good way

1177
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 3: of again showing and answering, even if it's not an

1178
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 3: answer you want. They're showcasing and answering how all of

1179
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 3: these people participated and no one helped Sylvia And there

1180
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 3: were others in real life, you know, in the real case,

1181
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 3: there were five other neighborhood children who were implicated in

1182
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 3: this crime, but none of them served any time and

1183
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 3: their charges were eventually dropped. But this is something that

1184
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 3: I couldn't get out of my head. Also, like in

1185
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 3: seeing how they're showing Indianapolis and how they're kind of

1186
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 3: showing small town America is. In the aftermath of this,

1187
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 3: a lot of people moved and changed their names, but

1188
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 3: a lot of them didn't. And imagine living in a culture,

1189
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 3: living in a town, living in a society with people

1190
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 3: who were capable of this abuse, and they're your neighbors,

1191
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 3: and they're your school teachers and they're your minister. Like

1192
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 3: these people went on to have lives, yeah, And I

1193
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 3: just can't get wrap my head around that that like

1194
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 3: these they're like, yes, a couple of people were put

1195
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 3: in jail, but most of the people involved with this

1196
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 3: abuse went on to live lives where they got married

1197
01:05:57,280 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 3: and had kids and became your neighbors. And people in

1198
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 3: your fucking grocery store.

1199
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I mean, even just reading the Wikipedia article

1200
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: two they all died young. It seems like, yeah, like

1201
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 1: they weren't old. I mean, especially the one kid I

1202
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 1: think that is Ricky Hobbs. He died at twenty one

1203
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:18,840
Speaker 1: of lung cancer. Wild wild. Yeah.

1204
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 3: But they all like died in their fifties or forties

1205
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 3: or like they all died very young.

1206
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I just after reading all all, you know,

1207
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 1: a lot of the details on Wikipedia, I was like,

1208
01:06:36,760 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 1: there's no way they could have put all of this

1209
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: in the film. It would have just been like too much.

1210
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 1: But what they did choose to talk about, you know, obviously,

1211
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 1: was horrific enough.

1212
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 2: You know what I mean exactly.

1213
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 1: I mean, and uh, it's also interesting too, like the dad, So,

1214
01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:00,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I love this actor despite the fact that

1215
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 1: that he might in real life have some weird politics.

1216
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, you know, I don't know, but

1217
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 1: Nick Searcy, who plays Sylvia's dad, he's like such a

1218
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 1: great Southern like almost like a character actor, and.

1219
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 2: He's justified yeah.

1220
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and so it's surprised seeing him not as

1221
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 1: the character he plays.

1222
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:25,920
Speaker 2: It justified exactly.

1223
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 1: But oh my god, I mean, I don't even know

1224
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 1: if if if this is a spoiler, if you think

1225
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 1: I shouldn't talk about it, I won't talk about it.

1226
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 3: But no, it's it's a real case. So I think,

1227
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 3: let's there's no spoilers that be had because we know

1228
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 3: what happens.

1229
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: So in the movie, there's this whole scenario where Sylvia escapes,

1230
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 1: Paula helps her escape, Ricky helps her escape, they go,

1231
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:59,959
Speaker 1: Ricky drives her to her parents, and then she reveal

1232
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 1: like all of the horrible things that have been happening,

1233
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 1: and they go to the house to get the sister,

1234
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 1: and it's just that moment where you're like, you know

1235
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 1: that that it's not how it ended up, right, but

1236
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 1: just that moment of like, what could have happened in

1237
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:27,680
Speaker 1: a much better scenario from this story rocked me. Like

1238
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 1: I was like, I am fucking rocked by this, Like this,

1239
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 1: what if you know what I mean?

1240
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:36,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, And what if this had happened a month earlier?

1241
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 3: What if this has happened at the very from the

1242
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 3: first time they got hit, What if this had happened

1243
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 3: right away? Like it just it is truly unbelievable because

1244
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:47,680
Speaker 3: in that moment what you're seeing in the film. What

1245
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 3: I love about how they portrayed it is that this

1246
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 3: is Sylvia dying. Like her dying thoughts are essentially the

1247
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 3: way they portrayed it in the film. What if I

1248
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 3: was saved and it's fucking heartbreaking?

1249
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh oh definitely, yeah it was.

1250
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 3: It was.

1251
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 1: It was heavy, not gonna lie.

1252
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 3: And then there's there's definitely a moment in the end

1253
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 3: of the film that was ripped right from real life

1254
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 3: where Jenny, who's been coached to lie about what has

1255
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:20,439
Speaker 3: happened to Sylvia. You know, Ricky calls the cops. They

1256
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 3: show up because now they have this dead body in

1257
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 3: the house to contend with, and the whole time Gertrude

1258
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 3: saying she's faking it. That was real, like right from

1259
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 3: real life.

1260
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 2: But she wasn't faking it. She was dead.

1261
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 3: And Jenny at first lies to the police and says,

1262
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 3: you know, yep, some boys came and you know, she

1263
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 3: showed up and they must have done something to her.

1264
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 3: But then as soon as Jenny gets them by themselves,

1265
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 3: these police officers, she says, you get me out of

1266
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 3: here and I'll tell you everything. And that is a

1267
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 3: true statement from real life, Like that is how she

1268
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 3: extricated herself from that situation and got the story out.

1269
01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 3: So Jenny, her younger sister, is the reason that this

1270
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 3: story was able to be told. She you know, she

1271
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 3: had enough courage and was able to see that like

1272
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 3: this was her way out of this abusive cycle from

1273
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:14,599
Speaker 3: this maniac, and she jumped on it. So I think

1274
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:16,720
Speaker 3: that was a really brave and important moment that she

1275
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 3: you know, kind of could not help Sylvia or do

1276
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:24,679
Speaker 3: anything to fend off her abusers in in in life

1277
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:29,839
Speaker 3: while Sylvia was alive, but she did expose what happened

1278
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 3: and kind of helped tell the true story and in death.

1279
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I I'm glad I saw this movie. I

1280
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 1: mean it was it was a hard watch for sure.

1281
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 1: Should have definitely not watched it right before bed. Agree

1282
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:53,640
Speaker 1: agree bad again or movies. But I'm glad that you

1283
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 1: decided to talk about it. It's good. It's a it's

1284
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: it's I think, a well done movie. The beginning of

1285
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 1: it is so oh buoyant with all of the music

1286
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:08,799
Speaker 1: and the records and stuff, and of course of course

1287
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 1: it's like setting you up from this horrible second half.

1288
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 1: But it's like you know, the music and the and

1289
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 1: the clothes and the it's kind of yeah, I mean

1290
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: it is kind of like a perfect setup for a

1291
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 1: horror movie.

1292
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 2: You know, absolutely, and absolutely.

1293
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:29,600
Speaker 1: That's kind of what it feels like. It feels like

1294
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 1: a horror movie. Yeah.

1295
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 3: The whole time it's happening, you're like, I wish this

1296
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 3: was not real. I wish this, And when you're watching

1297
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:38,759
Speaker 3: the film, and then remembering that it's a real case,

1298
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 3: it's like an extra layer of pain hits you. You're like,

1299
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 3: holy fuck, not only is this a very complicated and

1300
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 3: dark and disturbing horror film, this really happened.

1301
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. That was hard for me to like kind of

1302
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: go back and forth about, right, because I was just

1303
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 1: like constantly going back to the Wikipedia and like reading

1304
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 1: a little bit more and then watching the movie. I

1305
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 1: mean like, yeah, I mean I suspect that that's probably

1306
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: the case with a lot of like true crime films

1307
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 1: of like really horrific crimes. Is just it's probably never

1308
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:15,759
Speaker 1: actually an easy task to try to make a narrative

1309
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:17,719
Speaker 1: film out of some horrific event.

1310
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 3: So exactly exactly, and again, I think the way in

1311
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:27,640
Speaker 3: and what gave us a way to really see Sylvia

1312
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 3: and honor Sylvia and see the humanity of that character.

1313
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,479
Speaker 3: Is that Elliott Page played played it so well, like

1314
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 3: I think he's he really just kind of knocked it

1315
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 3: out of the park with again that kind of emotional

1316
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 3: acting that he does so so well.

1317
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agree.

1318
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:49,599
Speaker 2: Well on to something else.

1319
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:57,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's continue down this road with the theme Papa,

1320
01:12:57,720 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 1: can you hear me?

1321
01:12:59,280 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 3: So?

1322
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:03,320
Speaker 1: My movie for the theme is a film from nineteen eighty.

1323
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:09,560
Speaker 1: It was written by Jacob Brackman. The story was initially

1324
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:13,479
Speaker 1: conceived by Alan Moyle and Leanne Unger. It was directed

1325
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:16,640
Speaker 1: by Alan Moyle and it's called Times Square. This is

1326
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 1: Nicky Murata, famous murder and entertainer.

1327
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:22,720
Speaker 2: I'm throwing a concent tonight Times Square.

1328
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:26,920
Speaker 1: Celebrate my escape from mental illness. Don't miss it. Okay, So,

1329
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:31,839
Speaker 1: like many moons ago, now, I feel like I brought

1330
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 1: this movie called Ladies and Gentlemen The Fabulous Stains to

1331
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 1: the pod, which I feel like is sort of a

1332
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 1: kindred spirit to this movie, even though Times Square came

1333
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 1: out before The Fabulous Stains. But you know, I think

1334
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 1: we've gone on record many times on this podcast talking

1335
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 1: about stories about young women and female friendships and so

1336
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: of course it was only time before I got to

1337
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 1: Times Square. Here's a one sentence yeah, yeah, yeah, here's

1338
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: the one sentence synopsis. Two young women from different stations

1339
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 1: in life who have formed a bond as roommates in

1340
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:15,639
Speaker 1: a mental health facility make a daring escape to live

1341
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:21,599
Speaker 1: free and fantastic lives on the streets of New York City. Yes,

1342
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 1: very cool. And so I will say this, I for

1343
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,360
Speaker 1: a very long time this movie was unavailable, or at

1344
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 1: least wasn't available in a good quality. And I obviously

1345
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 1: think it had a lot to do with the music,

1346
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:39,960
Speaker 1: because there was so much popular movie music in this film.

1347
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 1: We'll talk about it in just a second, but as

1348
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 1: we know, you know a lot of times with film rights,

1349
01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 1: if a film is not available on DVD or Blu

1350
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 1: ray or like on streaming services, there's probably a rights issue,

1351
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 1: and the rights issue is a lot of times clearing

1352
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:59,599
Speaker 1: the music for things. So there you go. But it's

1353
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:02,960
Speaker 1: now out on Blue Ray. Quino put out a copy

1354
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 1: of it. Looks great. So the inspiration for Times Square

1355
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 1: was based on this random diary that was found by

1356
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 1: Alan Moyle, the director, in a thrift store couch. So

1357
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:23,720
Speaker 1: I guess they bought like secondhand couch. They found a

1358
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:26,599
Speaker 1: diary in it, and the diary was by this young

1359
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: girl and it was essentially a diary written by young

1360
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: girl who was living life out in the street, and

1361
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:37,000
Speaker 1: it was rough and unpleasant at times. And I think

1362
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 1: they were just really curious about this girl's life and

1363
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 1: you know, all the things that she talked about in

1364
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: her diary. And so Alan Moyle and Leanne Unger wrote

1365
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:54,719
Speaker 1: a script about it, and then it caught the attention

1366
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:59,520
Speaker 1: of this very famous music and film producer named Robert Stigwood.

1367
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 1: And Robert Stigwood is probably most known for working with

1368
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 1: the Beegs, but he also produced films like Grease and

1369
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:15,839
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Fever. So wow. Yeah. So basically what happened

1370
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: was with Stigwood involved, right, the movie kind of became

1371
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 1: in a weird way. I think his goal was to

1372
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:25,639
Speaker 1: make it kind of like the new wave version of

1373
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 1: like a Saturday Night Fever, Like to make the movie

1374
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 1: kind of this big music soundtrack film, just like Saturday

1375
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 1: Night Fever. And so Tim Curry, the actor Tim Curry

1376
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:42,559
Speaker 1: who's in this film, he was kind of one of

1377
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:46,559
Speaker 1: the first people cast for it. Even though the leads.

1378
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:51,479
Speaker 1: The two leads of this film were basically young teenage

1379
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:56,480
Speaker 1: girls who were pretty much unknown. Fifteen year old Robin Johnson,

1380
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:01,559
Speaker 1: who plays a girl named Nicki Muruta, and thirteen year

1381
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 1: old Triny Alvarado, who plays Pamela Pearl. So they're kind

1382
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 1: of like the two girls who star in this film,

1383
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:12,479
Speaker 1: and they are the stars of the show. I mean,

1384
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 1: especially Robin Johnson, who when I first saw this movie,

1385
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:22,679
Speaker 1: she just rocked me, like her whole vibe. And I mean,

1386
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:26,720
Speaker 1: of course, like I connected to her because she's this

1387
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 1: like street wise, foul mouthed punk rock girl, and she's

1388
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 1: got a really gravelly voice, and she seems much older

1389
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 1: than she actually is, like just even Robin as you know,

1390
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:42,759
Speaker 1: a girl as an actress. Right, And so the setup

1391
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:46,200
Speaker 1: of the film is this, right, So Nicki and Pamela

1392
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 1: they first meet at the New York Neurological Hospital, Okay,

1393
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 1: and they are roommates and they're sort of being treated

1394
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:03,919
Speaker 1: similarly for conditions that I don't think are really totally

1395
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:08,839
Speaker 1: fleshed out in the film. No, right, I would argue

1396
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 1: maybe that's intentional or maybe circumstance that I'll talk about later.

1397
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,320
Speaker 3: I felt like it was intentional because what the movie

1398
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:20,320
Speaker 3: really seems to be saying is like, there's nothing wrong

1399
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 3: with them. Yes, like this is the reaction to people

1400
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 3: not understanding teen girls. It's like, well, let's see what's

1401
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 3: wrong with their brains because we can't figure it out.

1402
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:31,920
Speaker 1: That's one hundred percent what I think too, But there

1403
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:34,760
Speaker 1: was there's also this other thing about the film, which

1404
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 1: I'll I'll talk about in a little bit about kind

1405
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,719
Speaker 1: of storylines that were omitted and stuff that maybe might

1406
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,160
Speaker 1: contribute to this too. But yeah, that is a huge

1407
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 1: theme of the film is obviously, like the concept of

1408
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:53,920
Speaker 1: young women being quote unquote crazy and we don't know

1409
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:56,160
Speaker 1: how to handle them and we don't understand them, so

1410
01:18:56,280 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 1: let's just like get them out of the way, just

1411
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:01,639
Speaker 1: lock them up, put them in a hotsepital and give

1412
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:04,160
Speaker 1: them medication type of thing, which is part of the

1413
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:06,240
Speaker 1: reason why I picked it for this theme obviously.

1414
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, so here's.

1415
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 1: So, here's the thing, Like, so they have this hospital

1416
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:16,200
Speaker 1: in common, even though they're completely of different of different

1417
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:20,719
Speaker 1: stations in life. So Nikki obviously a runaway, very street

1418
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:23,720
Speaker 1: wise New York City kind of kid. You know, she

1419
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 1: plays guitar, and she wants to. She loves punk rock.

1420
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 1: I mean, she's like playing the Ramones I want to

1421
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:31,719
Speaker 1: be sedated, like the entire time she's in the hospital,

1422
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 1: and she's got this very anti establishment attitude. But you know,

1423
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:37,679
Speaker 1: at the same time, she's had a lot of trauma

1424
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,160
Speaker 1: in her life and she's been in and out of

1425
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 1: institutions and whatnot. And her social worker is played by

1426
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 1: Anna Maria Hosford, who we know as Thelma from Amen,

1427
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:53,799
Speaker 1: and we've talked about her before on the pip.

1428
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:55,840
Speaker 3: Can can we get her on the pod because this

1429
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:59,120
Speaker 3: is now turning into a secret love affair with Anna

1430
01:19:59,120 --> 01:19:59,719
Speaker 3: Marie Horse.

1431
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 1: I agree.

1432
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 3: I love when she pops up. I love seeing her.

1433
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:07,520
Speaker 3: I love seeing her pop up in any film.

1434
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 1: One hundred percent me too. And really she is pretty

1435
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:15,559
Speaker 1: much the only character really, I mean besides maybe Johnny

1436
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:21,040
Speaker 1: LaGuardia sort of that kind of understands at least a

1437
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:25,240
Speaker 1: little bit about their situations. But you know, she at

1438
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:31,200
Speaker 1: least gets that Nikki is kind of the system has

1439
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:36,960
Speaker 1: failed her right for her entire life, and she at

1440
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 1: least is cognizant of that.

1441
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:38,760
Speaker 5: Right.

1442
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:44,559
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, you have Pamela, Okay, she is the daughter of

1443
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:49,639
Speaker 1: this like wealthy New York politician, single father because her

1444
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 1: mother has passed away. The dad works for the Mayor's office,

1445
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 1: and he has this mission to clean up Times Square, right,

1446
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:02,880
Speaker 1: which a huge issue at the time.

1447
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:08,679
Speaker 3: Right, The prophetic nature of that was not lost on me, yes.

1448
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:12,760
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And you know, we talked We've talked

1449
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:17,360
Speaker 1: about Times Square, old Times Square, the forty second Street forever.

1450
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:19,720
Speaker 1: The Grindhouse is like, we've talked about that on the

1451
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 1: pod many many times. So you know, imagine in the

1452
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 1: early eighties, you know, that's still kind of this vibe,

1453
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 1: and then you have this Mayor's Office commissioner guy who's like,

1454
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:32,240
Speaker 1: we're going to change it, We're going to change it.

1455
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 1: And then eventually they did change it.

1456
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, fucking Olive Garden.

1457
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, MTV TRL shit like crazy.

1458
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:45,360
Speaker 3: And there's something that I love about this film and

1459
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:49,640
Speaker 3: watching this is that it's it's a constant conflict for

1460
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 3: me because I do, in my heart believe that cities

1461
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 3: should adapt and change in order to survive. But I

1462
01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:59,040
Speaker 3: also think that every time I go to Times Square,

1463
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:01,639
Speaker 3: I just want to fucking barf because like, you don't

1464
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:05,000
Speaker 3: want the safe, like, yes, being safe and being like

1465
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:09,240
Speaker 3: all of that matters, but there are certain parts of

1466
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:11,240
Speaker 3: the soul of a city that live in some of

1467
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:13,400
Speaker 3: the old buildings or some of you know, even if

1468
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:15,439
Speaker 3: it's not going to stay the same business. It's like,

1469
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, there's something that's lost in the translation

1470
01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:22,439
Speaker 3: of trying to make it an evolved city.

1471
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 2: And I think that's a lot of the conflict that

1472
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:25,400
Speaker 2: a lot of people feel.

1473
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 3: But you know, I do think that cities need to

1474
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:29,559
Speaker 3: change and adapt and evolve, but I also think that

1475
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 3: it's a little bit sad when they do.

1476
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also too, You're never gonna get rid of

1477
01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:40,439
Speaker 1: the den of iniquity, like you're you're never gonna fucking

1478
01:22:40,479 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 1: shut the red light district down. It's just gonna go

1479
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 1: somewhere else, like exactly. That's what's happening in Atlanta, like constantly,

1480
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:49,920
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's just that thing of

1481
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:53,919
Speaker 1: like you can clean out the titty bars or whatever,

1482
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:56,519
Speaker 1: but and put all of gardens there. But it's like

1483
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 1: that it will, it will pop up some else. It's

1484
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:07,800
Speaker 1: people just need their titty bars. Okay, Jesus, I.

1485
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:09,559
Speaker 3: Know we didn't record it, but at the top of

1486
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 3: the at the top of the show. You were talking

1487
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 3: about a TV show, a reality TV show about these

1488
01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:19,200
Speaker 3: two women who were in wrestling, and you thought the

1489
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:25,000
Speaker 3: name of the show was Tough Titties. The tough titty

1490
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 3: bars will survive.

1491
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 1: They were straught up. Just as much as you like,

1492
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:36,120
Speaker 1: heal your ZiT, the ZiT will pop back up somewhere else, Okay,

1493
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:39,760
Speaker 1: Like it's human. So here's the thing. This is the

1494
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 1: father of this girl, Pamela, who you know, unlike Nikki,

1495
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:49,599
Speaker 1: she's reserved, quiet, she loves poetry, she writes a lot

1496
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:52,559
Speaker 1: in her diary, and she's just kind of the opposite

1497
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 1: of Nikki. She's kind of like a meeker type of girl. Right.

1498
01:23:57,040 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 1: But the thing is is that you know she is

1499
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:02,360
Speaker 1: definitely like going through it. She's a teenager. You know,

1500
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:05,760
Speaker 1: her mom has passed away. Like she's got issues she's

1501
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:09,479
Speaker 1: she's dealing with. But you know, her father, of course,

1502
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 1: is like, well, she's just like depressed or something. So

1503
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:15,120
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do about that. So let

1504
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:19,120
Speaker 1: me just put her in this hospital, this facility, so

1505
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:22,719
Speaker 1: I can go to my meetings, my high level fucking

1506
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:25,599
Speaker 1: city meetings, and then I'll just let these doctors deal

1507
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:27,840
Speaker 1: with it. Like he'll just solve the problem with money, right,

1508
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:32,679
Speaker 1: and that is probably been her entire life. And it's

1509
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:35,639
Speaker 1: interesting too because, like in this scenes in the beginning

1510
01:24:35,680 --> 01:24:37,360
Speaker 1: when they first show up at the hospital, it's like

1511
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:43,519
Speaker 1: completely obvious the difference and care that money gives you,

1512
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 1: because you know, Pamela is like getting all the doctors

1513
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:49,599
Speaker 1: by her bedside and they're fussing over her, and then

1514
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:51,720
Speaker 1: like on the other side of the room, Nikki is

1515
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:54,320
Speaker 1: just kind of sitting there on her own, you know,

1516
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:57,519
Speaker 1: like nobody's really going over to her or fussing and

1517
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:00,960
Speaker 1: paying attention to her. So that's like, you know, obviously

1518
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:07,960
Speaker 1: like the difference between these two girls, right absolutely. And

1519
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 1: Pamela's dad, who's played by this actor Peter Cwfield. He's

1520
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:15,240
Speaker 1: like the epitome of that of that like out of

1521
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 1: touch politician dad. I mean, he's just like using all

1522
01:25:18,120 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 1: his connections to help his kid, even though he doesn't

1523
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 1: even really know her or what she wants or anything.

1524
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:27,880
Speaker 1: It's just total typical papa, can you hear me? And

1525
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:32,360
Speaker 1: he's like nope, you know, not even on the zone frequency.

1526
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:37,839
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. So they eventually build a friendship despite their odds,

1527
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 1: and then Nicky is finally released. No idea if she's

1528
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:45,920
Speaker 1: actually better or anything like, she just is like, you're

1529
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 1: out of here, and then eventually like comes back and

1530
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 1: encourages Pamela to like sneak out with her. Right. So

1531
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:57,200
Speaker 1: this is kind of where the movie you know, gets

1532
01:25:57,240 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 1: kicked in the high gear because they bust out of

1533
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 1: the hospital, they steal an ambulance, and then they decide

1534
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 1: to hide out in like an abandoned building near the

1535
01:26:06,479 --> 01:26:07,320
Speaker 1: Chelsea Piers.

1536
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:12,840
Speaker 3: I think, oh my god, it is shocking to see

1537
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:16,120
Speaker 3: that kind of shit. And at one point Nicky says

1538
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:19,320
Speaker 3: was something to the effect of like, uh, are you

1539
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:22,760
Speaker 3: afraid of drowning? And she's looking around the you know,

1540
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 3: this abandoned building the living in and my first thought

1541
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:27,439
Speaker 3: was like, are you afraid of typhus? Because there's like

1542
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:30,520
Speaker 3: a lot more coming for you before fucking drowning.

1543
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 1: Will absolutely And here's this place is gross. This place

1544
01:26:33,439 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 1: is gross. And here's what I have to say about

1545
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:38,320
Speaker 1: all of this, because I think it has to be

1546
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:41,559
Speaker 1: said like this. This film is obviously shot on location

1547
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,360
Speaker 1: in New York City, and it really at times doesn't

1548
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:48,439
Speaker 1: shy away from showing these young girls sort of interacting

1549
01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:50,680
Speaker 1: with people who are like living and working in New

1550
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:53,800
Speaker 1: York City and in Times Square. But this film is

1551
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:58,840
Speaker 1: a fantasy, Okay, don't get twisted, Like, and I have

1552
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:01,160
Speaker 1: to say that I have this fantasy when I was

1553
01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:06,439
Speaker 1: their age, like I definitely wanted to escape the boring

1554
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:09,400
Speaker 1: urbs and you know, go down to the city, go

1555
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:13,879
Speaker 1: to a downtown and where it's where. To me, downtown

1556
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 1: was always this like exhilarating world filled with like crazy

1557
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:22,200
Speaker 1: characters and vibrant street life. And you know, it isn't

1558
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:24,840
Speaker 1: until much later. And I think that in this film

1559
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:27,000
Speaker 1: in particular, I mean it's like, think about it, if

1560
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 1: you like the reality of people who were actually like

1561
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:32,040
Speaker 1: living and working in Times Square in like nineteen eighty

1562
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:35,559
Speaker 1: and the peers and stuff. I mean, like, yeah, it

1563
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:40,680
Speaker 1: was bleak, right. It is not like a fantastical teenage

1564
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 1: girl fantasy world where they like get to create this

1565
01:27:44,479 --> 01:27:49,719
Speaker 1: like neat clubhouse in an abandoned thing with no incident,

1566
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:50,879
Speaker 1: no incident.

1567
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:55,000
Speaker 3: Listen, my great aunt lived in the Brooklyn Navy Yard

1568
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:58,519
Speaker 3: for most of her life and it is not the

1569
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:01,600
Speaker 3: Brooklyn Navy Yard that is that exists now. And my

1570
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 3: great grandmother whenever we would go into the city we'd

1571
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:07,080
Speaker 3: get off the bus at the Port Authority, which is

1572
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:10,719
Speaker 3: right in Times Square, and she would grab my fucking

1573
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:13,200
Speaker 3: hand and look at me and be like, if you

1574
01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:16,920
Speaker 3: let go of my hand, essentially you're gone, Like we

1575
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:20,160
Speaker 3: will lose you to the fucking streets, right, And I'm

1576
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:22,160
Speaker 3: like seven years old, look at it like, you know,

1577
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:25,800
Speaker 3: fucking neon titties and like people. It was just like

1578
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:29,720
Speaker 3: the fucking most horrifying place. Yeah, And she was like,

1579
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:31,599
Speaker 3: if you let go of my hand, I don't know

1580
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 3: you anymore because you are gonna be lost to these

1581
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:36,719
Speaker 3: fucking streets. And I'm like, this is a lot at seven.

1582
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:38,439
Speaker 3: And then we'd go to the fucking Brooklyn Navy Yard

1583
01:28:38,479 --> 01:28:40,480
Speaker 3: and I'm like, this city.

1584
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:46,640
Speaker 5: Is scary, and like, to me, it's okay that a

1585
01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:51,000
Speaker 5: movie makes a fantasy out of like a real thing,

1586
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:51,519
Speaker 5: you know what I mean.

1587
01:28:51,920 --> 01:28:55,040
Speaker 1: It's like because basically what happens is like these girls

1588
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:58,960
Speaker 1: are like living in this abandoned building. They're gallivanting around

1589
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:04,160
Speaker 1: New York City, hustling people at card games, washing windshields,

1590
01:29:04,160 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 1: They're stealing, outright stealing. They try to actually rob a

1591
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:11,240
Speaker 1: guy at gunpoint, but then they just start laughing and

1592
01:29:11,280 --> 01:29:14,720
Speaker 1: it's the thing where like instead of it like like

1593
01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:17,559
Speaker 1: if you you have to divorce the reality of like

1594
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,240
Speaker 1: what you know, right, you just be like this is

1595
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 1: like a Harold and Maud thing, like they're just it

1596
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 1: is a whimsical fantasy of what could.

1597
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:29,440
Speaker 3: Happen to Also, it is such a specific a specifically

1598
01:29:29,439 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 3: white girl fantasy.

1599
01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:33,599
Speaker 2: Yes, I know, like we're just gonna rob people, ha.

1600
01:29:33,560 --> 01:29:37,240
Speaker 3: Ha, We're just gonna run around scamming people. And you're like,

1601
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:40,240
Speaker 3: this is a white girl fantasy because at any one

1602
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 3: of these turns, if this was a person of color,

1603
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:44,200
Speaker 3: they would be the movie would end, they'd be in

1604
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:45,479
Speaker 3: jail for the rest of their fucking life.

1605
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 1: Oh and like nothing is more true to that point

1606
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:56,320
Speaker 1: then the idea that Pamela gets a job working in

1607
01:29:56,360 --> 01:29:59,600
Speaker 1: a topless bar and she doesn't have to get topless.

1608
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:02,919
Speaker 2: She refuses. She's like, ps, I'm thirteen.

1609
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 3: I will work at this bar illegally, but I ain't

1610
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 3: taken my clothes off. And the owner's like, I like that,

1611
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:11,960
Speaker 3: that's classy, Like there's no way I was like, and

1612
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:12,639
Speaker 3: she gets.

1613
01:30:12,439 --> 01:30:17,040
Speaker 1: To wear like her Kate Bush like uh, Wuthering Heights

1614
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:20,560
Speaker 1: video outfit thing like where she's wearing like full tights

1615
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:23,280
Speaker 1: like she's wearing. She looks like a Woodland fairy creature.

1616
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:28,160
Speaker 1: And I'm like, there is no way this would happened, Like,

1617
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:33,200
Speaker 1: you know, and obviously we don't encourage thirteen year old

1618
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:35,680
Speaker 1: girls to work in Tapla's bars. Like it's I'm not

1619
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:37,760
Speaker 1: saying like, oh my god, she didn't get Tabla's what

1620
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 1: a this is fake? No, I would just say that,

1621
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,800
Speaker 1: like in the in the context of this story, right,

1622
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:46,639
Speaker 1: you know, it's outrageous. It's just outrageous that all.

1623
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:49,680
Speaker 2: Of it is a fantasy, all of it as a fantasy. Yeah.

1624
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:53,880
Speaker 1: So there's this local Times Square DJ that Nicky and

1625
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:58,400
Speaker 1: Pamela are obsessed with, and his name is Johnny LaGuardia.

1626
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:04,040
Speaker 1: He is obviously played by Tim Curry, right, And here's

1627
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:09,280
Speaker 1: the thing about this character, So, Jhonny Maguardia. He's kind

1628
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:11,719
Speaker 1: of like an old head. He's like an old Times

1629
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:15,559
Speaker 1: Square guy. He wants it not to change. He resents

1630
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:18,640
Speaker 1: the fuck out of Pamela's dad for trying to gentrify

1631
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 1: his neighborhood. Okay, and these girls love him because he

1632
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:27,519
Speaker 1: plays new wave in punk rock music and he's kind

1633
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:31,080
Speaker 1: of got this like Ani establishment attitude. And you know

1634
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:33,639
Speaker 1: what ends up happening is that he kind of speaks

1635
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:37,160
Speaker 1: to them through the radio and he's like and he's

1636
01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:41,040
Speaker 1: kind of exacerbating the situation really where he's just like, yes,

1637
01:31:41,320 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 1: fuck the rules, play punk music like you're cool. And

1638
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 1: he has this like he has since he has this

1639
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:53,519
Speaker 1: like personal vendetta against Pamela's dad. I mean, he loves

1640
01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:57,519
Speaker 1: the fact that his daughter is like running away from him,

1641
01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:00,640
Speaker 1: you know, so in a weird way, he kind of

1642
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:04,800
Speaker 1: he kind of is gassing these girls up.

1643
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:07,639
Speaker 2: He's using them for his own agenda.

1644
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I mean he understands them, but he also

1645
01:32:12,439 --> 01:32:15,479
Speaker 1: is like, well, I also have a need for this

1646
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:19,719
Speaker 1: too in my own way, so let's keep it going, right.

1647
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:24,479
Speaker 1: And so what ends up happening is that they're out

1648
01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:27,360
Speaker 1: on the streets, they're working, they're like hustling, they're doing

1649
01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:31,840
Speaker 1: their thing, and of course Pamela's dad gets, you know,

1650
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:35,439
Speaker 1: he get he turns into this maniac trying to find

1651
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:39,680
Speaker 1: his daughter. And of course he blames NICKI for kidnapping

1652
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:43,800
Speaker 1: her because you know, he's so out of touch, like,

1653
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:47,519
Speaker 1: my daughter could never walk away, you know, on her own.

1654
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:51,320
Speaker 1: She'd have to be kidnapped by this you know, mutant

1655
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:55,080
Speaker 1: street kid or whatever. And there's this one point where

1656
01:32:55,080 --> 01:32:58,960
Speaker 1: he actually finds Nicky on the street and he starts

1657
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:05,559
Speaker 1: hitting her, which is super fucking disturbing. And you know,

1658
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:07,640
Speaker 1: like when I said earlier that I feel like this

1659
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:10,800
Speaker 1: movie does have darkness, this is one of the moments, right,

1660
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:15,720
Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely so okay in the way is that it

1661
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:20,080
Speaker 1: does resemble ladies and gentlemen the Fabulous Stains. So eventually

1662
01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:25,280
Speaker 1: these girls start calling themselves the Sleas Sisters, and they

1663
01:33:25,280 --> 01:33:29,439
Speaker 1: start performing like songs on Johnny LaGuardia's radio show, and

1664
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:34,160
Speaker 1: they're pulling pranks like they're throwing fucking TVs out of

1665
01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:41,519
Speaker 1: windows terrifying again, terrifying. Which I know that this was

1666
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:47,559
Speaker 1: a movie that you know, had probably had some sort

1667
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:51,120
Speaker 1: of order, but there are the scenes of this where

1668
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:53,080
Speaker 1: they're throwing TV's out the window and there are literally

1669
01:33:53,160 --> 01:33:58,080
Speaker 1: people like three feet shy of a TV that's being

1670
01:33:58,080 --> 01:34:00,800
Speaker 1: thrown from like the twentieth floor of a high rise.

1671
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:04,320
Speaker 1: I was like, I really hope they fucking like it

1672
01:34:04,479 --> 01:34:07,080
Speaker 1: seemed like nobody knew what was gonna happen, is what

1673
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:07,960
Speaker 1: I'm saying.

1674
01:34:09,240 --> 01:34:11,880
Speaker 3: Like, I hope those were extras essentially. I hope those

1675
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:12,640
Speaker 3: were extra.

1676
01:34:12,479 --> 01:34:15,519
Speaker 1: I hope this wasn't like pure documentary where they just

1677
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:17,680
Speaker 1: like like all right, throw the TV out now, and

1678
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:21,080
Speaker 1: all these people didn't know, because it seemed like when

1679
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:23,720
Speaker 1: you watch it in the movie that those people did

1680
01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:26,800
Speaker 1: not know, like they like literally like holy fuck, Like

1681
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:27,599
Speaker 1: it was.

1682
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:33,320
Speaker 3: Scary, to be honest, and it's it's a perpetual fear,

1683
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:35,280
Speaker 3: like eventually you just get over it, but it is

1684
01:34:35,320 --> 01:34:38,120
Speaker 3: a perpetual fear in New York City, like walking around

1685
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:39,920
Speaker 3: New York City, like, oh, an air conditioner could just

1686
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 3: drop out of a window any moment.

1687
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:43,439
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh my god, I can't even imagine.

1688
01:34:43,439 --> 01:34:44,880
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just like it doesn't even have to

1689
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:46,479
Speaker 3: be malicious. It could just be like, yeah, it fell,

1690
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:48,720
Speaker 3: it fell, and now you're dead.

1691
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:52,360
Speaker 1: You're like yeah, and like here's the thing. So like,

1692
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 1: you know, Nikki is loving it. She's like this is

1693
01:34:54,360 --> 01:34:57,040
Speaker 1: fucking cool and punk rock and we're making a statement here,

1694
01:34:57,160 --> 01:34:59,639
Speaker 1: you know, And Pamela starts, you know, she starts getting

1695
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:03,760
Speaker 1: a little conscious, like she's like, I don't know, this

1696
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:07,280
Speaker 1: seems dangerous and fucked up, right, And mean, what I.

1697
01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:09,120
Speaker 3: Like about it too, is that Pamela is kind of

1698
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:11,880
Speaker 3: like like Nikki wants to be famous, and she's like, oh,

1699
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:14,240
Speaker 3: people know us, and like we could be famous, And

1700
01:35:14,280 --> 01:35:15,760
Speaker 3: Pamela's like, I don't know if I'm cool with that,

1701
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:17,120
Speaker 3: Like that's not why I'm doing.

1702
01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:20,040
Speaker 1: It one hundred percent. I think that, yeah, they're they're

1703
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:25,040
Speaker 1: kind of agendas start to diverge, right, and Johnny LaGuardia

1704
01:35:25,200 --> 01:35:27,599
Speaker 1: is like he's saying, oh my god, these girls are

1705
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:30,559
Speaker 1: like a sensation, and so he starts activating all these

1706
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:35,000
Speaker 1: like young girl listeners, you know, in the city to

1707
01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:37,519
Speaker 1: becoming their fans. And that that's what I mean, like

1708
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:41,920
Speaker 1: the Fabulous Stays connection where there is a scene eventually

1709
01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:44,280
Speaker 1: where like all the girls come dressed up in garbage

1710
01:35:44,320 --> 01:35:46,640
Speaker 1: bags and you know, they're kind of like worshiping the

1711
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:50,000
Speaker 1: Sleeves sisters. So it's very fabulous Stains to me. I

1712
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:52,639
Speaker 1: think it goes with that saying though, like the this

1713
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:56,519
Speaker 1: movie is best known for its soundtrack. It is top

1714
01:35:56,560 --> 01:36:00,280
Speaker 1: fucking notch. There's a couple of really great scenes in

1715
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:02,719
Speaker 1: the film that are set to really really cool songs.

1716
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:04,639
Speaker 1: Like there's a scene of the two girls that are

1717
01:36:04,680 --> 01:36:08,839
Speaker 1: like dancing down forty second Street to life during Wartime

1718
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 1: by the Talking Heads, which I love so much. It's

1719
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:15,439
Speaker 1: like one of my favorite parts of the film. And

1720
01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:18,760
Speaker 1: more to the point of our theme, there is this

1721
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 1: other scene where Pamela. Pamela's dad finds out that she's

1722
01:36:25,479 --> 01:36:32,439
Speaker 1: dancing not topless at the Cleopatrick Club and he sneaks

1723
01:36:32,479 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 1: into the club one night and sees his daughter on

1724
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:42,719
Speaker 1: stage dancing to Walk on the wild Side by Lou Reed,

1725
01:36:42,920 --> 01:36:46,320
Speaker 1: with like a cigarette hanging out of her mouth, and

1726
01:36:46,360 --> 01:36:50,720
Speaker 1: I was like, is that not daddy's worst nightmare fight?

1727
01:36:54,080 --> 01:36:55,679
Speaker 2: What hath I wrocked?

1728
01:36:57,479 --> 01:37:02,599
Speaker 1: He's listening now, motherfucker. He's listening now. Like imagine walking

1729
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:04,680
Speaker 1: into a titty bar and being like, oh, there's my

1730
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:07,200
Speaker 1: daughter dancing to Walk on the wild Side with Like

1731
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:12,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just my thirteen year old daughter, Yes, yes,

1732
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:17,280
Speaker 1: And that song is absolutely fucking perfect for that specific moment.

1733
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:22,280
Speaker 1: I was like, damn, this is he's probably shitting right now.

1734
01:37:22,479 --> 01:37:25,840
Speaker 3: And there's also they use Patty Smith's pissing in a

1735
01:37:25,880 --> 01:37:28,760
Speaker 3: river Yeah in such a great scene too, where you're

1736
01:37:28,760 --> 01:37:30,679
Speaker 3: really because I think for so much of the movie,

1737
01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:33,519
Speaker 3: Nicky is portrayed as this very cartoonish character, but then

1738
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:36,800
Speaker 3: there's this scene that's like very emotional where you start

1739
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:39,200
Speaker 3: to kind of see her interior life peeking out a

1740
01:37:39,240 --> 01:37:41,519
Speaker 3: bit and her emotional life peeking out a bit, and

1741
01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:43,400
Speaker 3: that song is even perfect for that moment.

1742
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:46,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it, Like, there is actually an article

1743
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:51,439
Speaker 1: online that with the music supervisor for the film, and

1744
01:37:51,479 --> 01:37:54,680
Speaker 1: it's super interesting. I would encourage you guys to look

1745
01:37:54,680 --> 01:37:57,920
Speaker 1: it up. But yeah, I mean the soundtrack, it was

1746
01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:00,240
Speaker 1: like a double LP. I think I actually had the

1747
01:38:00,280 --> 01:38:04,559
Speaker 1: soundtrack before I watched the film, to be honest, and

1748
01:38:04,600 --> 01:38:07,160
Speaker 1: it's just there's just so much good music and it's

1749
01:38:07,200 --> 01:38:11,400
Speaker 1: of the era, and it really makes these scenes pop

1750
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:14,120
Speaker 1: in a in a huge way. So the other thing

1751
01:38:14,160 --> 01:38:18,200
Speaker 1: about the film that I will say that I think

1752
01:38:18,240 --> 01:38:21,160
Speaker 1: is very interesting and maybe it's kind of discussed more

1753
01:38:21,200 --> 01:38:25,559
Speaker 1: now than maybe back then. But so Alan Moyle, the director,

1754
01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:32,280
Speaker 1: I think, obviously knowing the origin story of the story

1755
01:38:32,400 --> 01:38:36,519
Speaker 1: of him finding a diary, right, I think his vision

1756
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:39,479
Speaker 1: for the film was a lot different than Robert Stigwood's, Right.

1757
01:38:39,560 --> 01:38:42,479
Speaker 1: I think that the director wanted it almost to be

1758
01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 1: more of like an indie film, and Robert Stigwood clearly,

1759
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:50,479
Speaker 1: you know, wanted to be a more commercial vehicle with

1760
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:53,800
Speaker 1: the big soundtrack and whatnot. And I know that the

1761
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:58,400
Speaker 1: director left the film at some point, and I feel

1762
01:38:58,400 --> 01:39:03,400
Speaker 1: like he wasn't involved with the editing, right, And because

1763
01:39:03,439 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 1: of that, like there apparently was a lot more to

1764
01:39:07,439 --> 01:39:14,599
Speaker 1: the relationship between Nicki and Pamela, Okay, and according to

1765
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:17,439
Speaker 1: what I read and what Alan Morlele had talked about,

1766
01:39:17,479 --> 01:39:19,680
Speaker 1: like they were supposed to be in love, like they

1767
01:39:19,680 --> 01:39:23,240
Speaker 1: were lesbian, right, right, And for whatever reason, it was

1768
01:39:23,280 --> 01:39:27,800
Speaker 1: removed from the film. And it's a damn shame because

1769
01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:31,320
Speaker 1: I think it would explain a lot more, you know

1770
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:31,800
Speaker 1: what I mean.

1771
01:39:32,400 --> 01:39:34,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can see that kind of disjointedness in the

1772
01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:37,720
Speaker 3: movie at points, and now that you're explaining this, it

1773
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:38,639
Speaker 3: makes total sense.

1774
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:39,879
Speaker 2: But I think it would have been.

1775
01:39:41,439 --> 01:39:43,639
Speaker 3: It would have helped the story to see the love

1776
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:45,639
Speaker 3: story progress. But I think it also would have been

1777
01:39:45,680 --> 01:39:49,280
Speaker 3: like really revolutionary and cool you kind of see that

1778
01:39:49,680 --> 01:39:52,000
Speaker 3: is not just like here are these two girls who

1779
01:39:52,120 --> 01:39:56,639
Speaker 3: escape from this neurological place and they're just best friends. Now. Yeah,

1780
01:39:57,040 --> 01:39:59,920
Speaker 3: you know, I think, especially with Nicki, as we start

1781
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 3: to get into her emotions more and the pain of

1782
01:40:05,320 --> 01:40:09,760
Speaker 3: seeing Pamela pull away and maybe making moves to go

1783
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:12,559
Speaker 3: back to her former life. That would have been so

1784
01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:15,240
Speaker 3: much more, that would have hit home a lot harder

1785
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:16,320
Speaker 3: if it had been a love story.

1786
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:20,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely what I think too, and like, because there is

1787
01:40:20,880 --> 01:40:23,360
Speaker 1: the thing that is interesting is they actually still kept

1788
01:40:23,400 --> 01:40:28,120
Speaker 1: this scene where Nicki has a breakdown basically, and you know,

1789
01:40:28,240 --> 01:40:30,719
Speaker 1: she paints kind of like, you know, like a mask

1790
01:40:30,760 --> 01:40:32,960
Speaker 1: around her eyes, and she goes to the radio station

1791
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:37,799
Speaker 1: and you know, she just has this huge emotional break

1792
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:42,559
Speaker 1: on air. But then you know, eventually they actually switch

1793
01:40:42,600 --> 01:40:46,360
Speaker 1: her off because I think it's just too raw, right, Yeah,

1794
01:40:46,360 --> 01:40:48,839
Speaker 1: But she talks, she kind of alludes to this idea

1795
01:40:48,920 --> 01:40:50,759
Speaker 1: that there are things that she meant to tell Pamela

1796
01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:53,280
Speaker 1: and didn't tell her and she wished she did. And

1797
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:58,679
Speaker 1: I think that that is I think part of their

1798
01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:02,240
Speaker 1: love story that didn't get fleshed out and was removed

1799
01:41:02,240 --> 01:41:04,559
Speaker 1: from the film. And I'm like, well, then that explains

1800
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:08,400
Speaker 1: so much about her and her character, you know what

1801
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:10,080
Speaker 1: I mean. And I just feel like, what a fucking

1802
01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:13,160
Speaker 1: shame to have that taken out And absolutely, and I

1803
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:20,040
Speaker 1: also had read that Alan Moyle I think said that

1804
01:41:20,040 --> 01:41:23,240
Speaker 1: that footage that cut footage of all that is like lost.

1805
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:26,280
Speaker 1: So they can't even do a director's cut, at least

1806
01:41:26,280 --> 01:41:29,760
Speaker 1: at the current time, because he doesn't know where it is.

1807
01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:33,200
Speaker 3: Basically, yeah, because I mean I'm sure once he left

1808
01:41:33,200 --> 01:41:34,960
Speaker 3: there like fuck it, trash it, goodbye.

1809
01:41:35,200 --> 01:41:35,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1810
01:41:36,240 --> 01:41:37,240
Speaker 2: Oh that's a shame.

1811
01:41:37,640 --> 01:41:40,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a shame. But you know what, like I

1812
01:41:42,240 --> 01:41:44,080
Speaker 1: hate that that happened, and you know that happens a

1813
01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:48,680
Speaker 1: lot obviously in film, where something like that just kind

1814
01:41:48,720 --> 01:41:51,800
Speaker 1: of changes the way that the characters act and relate

1815
01:41:51,880 --> 01:41:53,920
Speaker 1: to each other. And I mean I think it's interesting.

1816
01:41:53,960 --> 01:41:56,800
Speaker 1: It's a shame, but it's also like, you know, kind

1817
01:41:56,800 --> 01:42:01,519
Speaker 1: of like a an interesting tidbit to ponder of, like

1818
01:42:01,640 --> 01:42:04,639
Speaker 1: how this story could have been better if this would

1819
01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:05,120
Speaker 1: have happened.

1820
01:42:05,200 --> 01:42:08,880
Speaker 3: Right, If you're listening to this before you watch the film,

1821
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:11,320
Speaker 3: and you watch the film knowing that that could have

1822
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:14,519
Speaker 3: been a plot point, I think it'll change the viewing

1823
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:14,920
Speaker 3: for you.

1824
01:42:15,120 --> 01:42:18,120
Speaker 1: Definitely did for me too. But you know what, I

1825
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:21,600
Speaker 1: love Times Square. I mean it's such a snapshot of

1826
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:26,280
Speaker 1: a time and place. You know, I think it's obvious

1827
01:42:26,360 --> 01:42:29,240
Speaker 1: we love forty second Street, the old forty second Street,

1828
01:42:29,280 --> 01:42:32,720
Speaker 1: the friendship between these two girls, and just like the

1829
01:42:32,760 --> 01:42:35,320
Speaker 1: punk spirit of the film and the music just really

1830
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:39,240
Speaker 1: you know, fires on all cylinders for me. And I mean,

1831
01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:42,559
Speaker 1: like you can't like start a movie with roxy music

1832
01:42:44,479 --> 01:42:46,640
Speaker 1: and not and I not love it, Like it just

1833
01:42:48,040 --> 01:42:50,960
Speaker 1: is a great film, and like, you know, I don't know.

1834
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:52,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like there's a lot going on

1835
01:42:52,360 --> 01:42:55,600
Speaker 1: in the film. There are moments where it's dark, obviously,

1836
01:42:56,000 --> 01:42:58,479
Speaker 1: but I do feel it is a fantasy of like

1837
01:42:58,520 --> 01:43:00,000
Speaker 1: a young girl's fantasy of what it would be like

1838
01:43:00,120 --> 01:43:01,800
Speaker 1: to like run away from your parents and like go

1839
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:05,840
Speaker 1: to the city, you know, And I just connect.

1840
01:43:05,479 --> 01:43:08,000
Speaker 2: With that so much. I agree. I thought this is

1841
01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:09,439
Speaker 2: a great choice. I love seeing it.

1842
01:43:09,479 --> 01:43:12,519
Speaker 3: I'd only seen it like once or twice before atot

1843
01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:15,520
Speaker 3: that like maybe one full time and then like half

1844
01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:17,960
Speaker 3: it came on TV and I watched it, like the

1845
01:43:18,040 --> 01:43:20,439
Speaker 3: end of it, and I loved it. I just really,

1846
01:43:20,479 --> 01:43:23,280
Speaker 3: I really like. I mean, the characters are kind of

1847
01:43:23,320 --> 01:43:25,479
Speaker 3: like Nikki's kind of annoying when you first met meet her,

1848
01:43:25,479 --> 01:43:27,080
Speaker 3: but then they take her on such a journey and

1849
01:43:27,120 --> 01:43:31,240
Speaker 3: then you know, Pamela, it's like you said, it's that fantasy,

1850
01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:33,240
Speaker 3: like that teen girl fantasy of if I could find

1851
01:43:33,280 --> 01:43:36,040
Speaker 3: someone who could get me, And I just love that

1852
01:43:36,040 --> 01:43:38,719
Speaker 3: that comes in the form of another girl that she's

1853
01:43:39,160 --> 01:43:42,639
Speaker 3: thrown in with and they get to have this great adventure.

1854
01:43:43,080 --> 01:43:47,479
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that on the Quino Blu

1855
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:50,960
Speaker 1: ray there is a commentary track with I think the

1856
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:55,720
Speaker 1: director and like Robin Johnson nice because her career is

1857
01:43:55,760 --> 01:43:58,639
Speaker 1: interesting too. I think she was. I think she left

1858
01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:02,320
Speaker 1: the business at a certain point. But she is so dynamic.

1859
01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:05,480
Speaker 1: I mean they both are. They really are like great actresses.

1860
01:44:06,040 --> 01:44:09,760
Speaker 1: And but Robin Johnson just got like this, you know,

1861
01:44:09,800 --> 01:44:13,320
Speaker 1: apparently she was like found cutting class. Like it's that

1862
01:44:13,400 --> 01:44:16,920
Speaker 1: classic story of like here's a non actor they found

1863
01:44:17,320 --> 01:44:22,680
Speaker 1: being a juvie, you know, to play a juvie. Basically,

1864
01:44:23,520 --> 01:44:24,080
Speaker 1: I love it.

1865
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:26,040
Speaker 2: She is some of the funniest lines in the movie.

1866
01:44:26,040 --> 01:44:28,400
Speaker 3: Like there's at one point when they're deciding who's gonna

1867
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:29,640
Speaker 3: like why.

1868
01:44:30,680 --> 01:44:32,680
Speaker 2: Why Pamla was the one dancing at the.

1869
01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:36,160
Speaker 3: Cleo Club and Nicky's like, well, it's because you're pretty,

1870
01:44:36,160 --> 01:44:37,800
Speaker 3: Like look at me, I'm a disaster. She just has

1871
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:41,800
Speaker 3: these really funny lines that make her just really she

1872
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:45,840
Speaker 3: was something very very dynamic and special and charismatic.

1873
01:44:46,720 --> 01:44:51,280
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, listen, we got through it. It was a

1874
01:44:51,320 --> 01:44:53,040
Speaker 1: good week, a good week of movies.

1875
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:56,280
Speaker 3: I love this week of movies dark dark as fuck,

1876
01:44:56,720 --> 01:45:02,160
Speaker 3: but sometimes she gotta have the darkness so you can

1877
01:45:02,240 --> 01:45:04,599
Speaker 3: appreciate the dark movies we're gonna bring you next week.

1878
01:45:05,240 --> 01:45:09,840
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree. But listen, if you want to email us,

1879
01:45:10,120 --> 01:45:11,519
Speaker 1: we are at I Saw what you Did Pod at

1880
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:12,960
Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

1881
01:45:13,120 --> 01:45:15,880
Speaker 3: And you can find us on our social media at

1882
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:18,280
Speaker 3: I Saw Pod on Instagram and Twitter.

1883
01:45:19,160 --> 01:45:21,160
Speaker 1: That's right, we've got merched as well. Go to the

1884
01:45:21,200 --> 01:45:23,120
Speaker 1: I Saw what You Did section of the exactly Right

1885
01:45:23,120 --> 01:45:26,880
Speaker 1: shop to find it. And our bonus episodes are still dropping.

1886
01:45:26,960 --> 01:45:29,160
Speaker 3: We've got a new schedule now, so you'll have new

1887
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:33,000
Speaker 3: bonus episodes on the main feed every third Thursday of

1888
01:45:33,080 --> 01:45:37,000
Speaker 3: the month, and then we're gonna start slowly trickling out

1889
01:45:37,080 --> 01:45:39,559
Speaker 3: bonus episodes into the main feed every couple of weeks

1890
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:42,240
Speaker 3: on Wednesdays. I think there are a few episodes up now,

1891
01:45:42,320 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 3: like maybe three or four episodes old episodes up now,

1892
01:45:47,160 --> 01:45:49,519
Speaker 3: and that means on some weeks you're gonna hear us

1893
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:51,160
Speaker 3: on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.

1894
01:45:51,240 --> 01:45:58,479
Speaker 1: Whoa amazing. Well, Okay, do you want to tell them

1895
01:45:58,520 --> 01:45:59,920
Speaker 1: the movies for next week?

1896
01:46:00,120 --> 01:46:00,320
Speaker 4: Oh?

1897
01:46:00,400 --> 01:46:00,680
Speaker 1: I do?

1898
01:46:01,800 --> 01:46:05,200
Speaker 2: Your movies for next week are one hour photo from

1899
01:46:05,240 --> 01:46:09,360
Speaker 2: two thousand and two and Bright Lights, Big City from

1900
01:46:09,439 --> 01:46:10,519
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight.

1901
01:46:11,240 --> 01:46:16,800
Speaker 1: Wow. Well, Danielle, as always a fucking pleasure to do this

1902
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:17,559
Speaker 1: podcast with you.

1903
01:46:18,280 --> 01:46:20,320
Speaker 2: Truly love it until next week.

1904
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:21,679
Speaker 1: Yep, see you next time.

1905
01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:26,840
Speaker 2: Bye.

1906
01:46:28,880 --> 01:46:31,919
Speaker 3: This has been an exactly right production. Produced by Casey O'Brien,

1907
01:46:32,160 --> 01:46:34,719
Speaker 3: mixed by Edson Choi. Our theme song is by Tom

1908
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:36,920
Speaker 3: bry Fogel, artwork by Garrett Ross.

1909
01:46:37,240 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 2: Our executive producers.

1910
01:46:38,360 --> 01:46:41,599
Speaker 3: Are Georgia Hartstart, karenkil Garriff, and Daniel Kramer. You can

1911
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:44,320
Speaker 3: follow us on Instagram and Twitter at I Saw Pod,

1912
01:46:44,720 --> 01:46:46,760
Speaker 3: and you can email us at I Saw What You

1913
01:46:46,800 --> 01:46:48,000
Speaker 3: Did Pod at gmail