1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I Want justice. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace premieres March ninth, only on 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: Fox Nation. A father, a dad, a union carpenter, never 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: been in trouble, guns down a statutory rape suspect. This 5 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: is a thirty five year old man having sex with 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: a fourteen year old girl. I'm talking about Norris Acostas Sanchez. 7 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: And now because this guy who manages to capture a 8 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: child rapist, a confessed child rapist, one of my homeland 9 00:00:45,960 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: security ends up facing twenty years behind bars. Crime Stories 10 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace and one big people plank Road. You 11 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: can turn to him. He was what he probably did 12 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: my neighbor. The fugitive was Norris Accosta Sanchez, wanted for 13 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: sex with an underaged girl, the object of a few 14 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: top policeman hunt in the woods near Carlson's home the 15 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: day before. With the body lying on his neighbor's driveway 16 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: and cops on the way, Carlson took the phone to 17 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: speak with the operator, Sir, why did you shoot him? 18 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: He was threatening me? He is there a guy who 19 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: are too? Nancy came back to my house. He came 20 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: back to your house. A little pitch or I had 21 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: my gun already had I pulled it out, I put 22 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: it on him. I tried to get him up in 23 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: the neighbors to call a call a cop, and in 24 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: the meantime he did murk a gapeman. Carlson knew the 25 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: dead man, in fact, had befriended him when he found 26 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: him hiding in a hunting lodge out in the woods, 27 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: but became I'm horrified to learn that Acosta was wanted 28 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: for statutory rape. So the father and husband tried to 29 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: turn Acosta in twice, but he kept eluding police and escaping. 30 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: Did a man now called a vigilante gun down a 31 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: rape fugitive and end up behind bars? What happened? Let's 32 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: see what we can learn from that nine one one call, 33 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: nine one one call we got continued to roll after 34 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: police arrived the day of the shooting. When you go 35 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: out of dear David, I want your hand up showing 36 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: to everybody. I can't. Yeah, I'm not going anywhere where 37 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: to go. It's right here. Who got it? I did 38 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: they put out thinking you nowhere about you shot him? 39 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: I shot him in the drive for an arm and 40 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: then you can go. I kind of game after they 41 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: got him in the head. Dude, I'm trying to help you. 42 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: Guys nder me it happened. Don't nobody you wonder Dan 43 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: it happened. I'm gonna be okay. I'm more than nine 44 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: one one call along with CBS in New York reporter 45 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: Lou Young. What is the truth? It's hard to discern? 46 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: Is its self defense? Is it revenge? Is it vigilante justice? 47 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: Should this guy have gone to jail? I mean, it'sy grace, 48 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: this is crime stories. Thank you for being with us 49 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:26,559 Speaker 1: with me. Renowned lawyer, former host of Street Court, attorney 50 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: for the so called vigilante David Carlson. Michael Mazzarello joining 51 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: me from New York. Ben Austro Austrian Associates. You can 52 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: find him at austra ostrar dot com. Attorney for David 53 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: Carlson as well, John Cardello, host America Talks on Newsmax TV. 54 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: Former NYPD professor forensics Jacksonville State University, author of Blood 55 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan. Renowned psycho analyst, 56 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall from Beverly Hills. You can find her. 57 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany marshall dot com. But right now, to Susan Edelman, reporter, 58 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: investigative reporter at my favorite magazine, my favorite newspaper, New 59 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: York Post. Who is this guy, Susan Edelman is a killer? 60 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: Is he someone taking revenge? Is this vigilante? Justice? Is 61 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: it self defense? What happened? David Carlton was put into 62 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: a very tough position because he this accused rapist befriended 63 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: him and just stopped by him and terrorized for having 64 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: sex with a fourteen year old girl. And they went 65 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: to the police, but the police leaned on them to 66 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: help them catch this guy, and he gave them all 67 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: the help he could, but the police bungled every time 68 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: every attempt to arrest him. And then the angry rape 69 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: suspect bangs on his door and decides to make a 70 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: citizen's arrest with his gun, and that led to the 71 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: to the shooting. Guys, we are talking about a Now 72 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: you just heard Susan Edelman, an investigative reporter with a 73 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: New York Post say sex with a fourteen year old 74 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: under the law, there's really no such thing because at fourteen, 75 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: I mean at fourteen, you can't have consensual, consensual sex 76 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: and every jurisdiction in our country that is statutory rape. 77 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: In some jurisdictions depending on how well the victim and 78 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: how all the defendant is. If it's a fourteen year 79 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: old girl and a fifteen year old boy, it's not 80 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: going to be statutory rape. And a lot of jurisdictions, 81 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: but in most jurisdictions, quote sex unquote with a fourteen 82 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: year old is statutory rape. There's a reason. Is there 83 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: not being austra why a fourteen year old child cannot 84 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: buy a car, or buy a house, or enter into 85 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: a contractor buy a cigarett sort liquor. There's a reason 86 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: for that. Band well, anc the law in New York 87 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: State is a fourteen year old cannot consent, and in fact, 88 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: under the circumstances in which mister Acosta Sanchez took advantage 89 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: of this child, it's considered a violent crime. And he 90 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: was indicted not just a criminal complaint, but the grand 91 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: jury in Rockland County actually indicted him on two separate 92 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: counts of rape in the second degree, which is a 93 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: violent crime under our law. I want you to hear 94 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: one version of what happened. This is a guy that 95 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: heads to jail David Carlson, a husband, a father. The 96 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: so called murder victim, Nora's Acosta Sanchez, thirty five year 97 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: old suspect is a vigilante justice Should the husband dad 98 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: go to jail for life? Take a listen to our 99 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: fridge at cbsn Acosta was unarmed but reappeared after police 100 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: he's left. Carlson held him at gunpoint and says he 101 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: fired when Acosta turned on him. In court, the dead 102 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: man's mother called the way it ended cruel, vile, and 103 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: absurd of Carlson. She wondered did he want to be 104 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: a hero For his part, David Carlson said he was 105 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: panicked when it happened. He told the judge if I 106 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: could go back in time, I'd go back to October eleventh, 107 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen and do something different. I took a life, 108 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: and I'm not here to make excuses. Carlson could have 109 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: gotten as much as twenty five years for a first 110 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: degree man slaughter, but the judge gave him five, the 111 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: mandatory minimum. Still, it was a sentence. No one was 112 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: satisfied with some small solace. But I'm losing my brother 113 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: for I don't know how long I believe in David. 114 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: I believe he's a good man. Rosario Acosta left without comment. 115 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: Are you satisfied? Really? Carlson's attorneys filed an appeal and 116 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: say they'll try to get him out on bail until 117 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: it's heard. Five years to renowned psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall, 118 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: journey from La Doctor Bethany, I mean this morning, when 119 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: I dropped the twins off at school, I back timed it. 120 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,239 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, eight hours, eight and a half hours 121 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: till I'll see you again. That's insane. I miss you. 122 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine five years, you know, doctor Bethany. 123 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: Every time I fly out for a business in LA 124 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: and sometimes get to see you, I'm constantly looking at 125 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: my phone hoping one of the twins will facetimey. I 126 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: can't stand even one night five years, and that's a 127 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: lifetime to me to be away from your family and Nancy. 128 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 1: He had a wife, he had two children. I mean, 129 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: this man had a full life. He was a carpenter. 130 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: This is really a simple person who served his community. 131 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: His wife made homemade bread. I read in one story, 132 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: so this is a family, doctor Bethany, Doctor Bethany, please please, 133 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: it's all I can do to take care of a cat, 134 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: a dog, a husband, two children, my mother eighty nine 135 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: years old, and two guinea pigs. And now you want 136 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: to throw in that this woman makes homemade bread, did 137 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: you have to? I mean, you remind me of that 138 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: woman at the swimming pool that made her own organic 139 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: sunscreen and I pooh pooed her And now darn it, 140 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: it caused. Sunscreen causes cancer. So you know what's next. 141 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: But can we get back off the homemade bread and 142 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: onto being away from your family for five years? We know, 143 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: in my field, we talk about trauma all the time. 144 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: You know what causes trauma, what causes mental breakdowns and 145 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: forced premature separation from loved ones is one of the 146 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: major factors that causes trauma because it's something which we 147 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: are unprepared for. When we love our family, we want 148 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: to be with them. So he is separated from his 149 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 1: family for five years. He can't drive his kids to school, 150 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: he can't you know, intimacy with his wife. The whole 151 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: structure of the family breaks down. And remember he's already 152 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: gone through a trauma because he's been participating with police. 153 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: While this crazy guy is hiding in the woods behind 154 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: his hellips and then he goes to jail and he 155 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: doesn't have his family to support him and be there 156 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: for him, So that I would say is quite a 157 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: traumatic experience. Nancy will Actually David was granted bail pending 158 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: that appeal. Time stories with Nancy Grace arriving at court 159 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: for sentencing. David Carlson seems an unlikely vigilante. The Union 160 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: carpenter stands convicted of manslaughter and the twenty thirteen shotgun 161 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: killing a fugitive Norris Acosta Sanchez near Carlson's remote Orange 162 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: County home. Family and neighbors try to cope with the 163 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: idea he'll be heading off to prison. He was definitely remorseful, 164 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: uses the stand up guy. He would do anything for you, 165 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: just such a lovely person. In court, the judge aloud 166 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: still pictures as the victim's mother, who flew in from Spain, 167 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: delivered an impact statement. Rosario Sanchez said her life had 168 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: become a permanent internal cry. Her son, wanted for statutory rape, 169 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: eluded police twice in the woods near Carlson's home. It 170 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: was a man hunt that left Carlson and his neighbors rattled. 171 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: We're really frightened staying there that night because this guy's 172 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 1: on the loose, the police lost him. You're hearing our 173 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: friends at CBS in New York that was Lou Young. 174 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: The whole thing just stinks to me. And now saving 175 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: the best for last, Michael Mazzarello joining me, former host 176 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: of Street Court Attorney also along with being oustro for 177 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: David Carlson, and I'll go ahead and violate the Fifth 178 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: Amendment right to remain silent my longtime friend and colleague, 179 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: Michael Mazzarello. Okay, Michael, First of all, there's no such 180 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: thing as statutory rape, and in New York State, it's 181 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: a d violent felony. Thirty five year old had sex 182 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: with a fourteen year old multiple times. He was wanted 183 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: by Homeland Security for entering the United States with multiple passports. 184 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: Who wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait waiting. Okay, you're 185 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: talking so quickly. We can't take it all in. When 186 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: we refer to statutory rate, that is so called sex 187 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: with a minor, regardless of what New York may call it. 188 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: But what I want to hear is a coherent rendition 189 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 1: of the facts. As you know that, Michael, go ahead, 190 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,599 Speaker 1: The prosecutor kept saying that that's why the case was 191 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: reversed and remanded. There's no such thing. It's a colloquialism. 192 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: It's a d violent felony, and that belies the whole point. 193 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: This case is a case as an example, where a 194 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: man was out on bail for six years, lived the 195 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 1: law abiding life, was able to feed his three beautiful children, 196 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: support his family, and the horror of the police what 197 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 1: they did to this man should be an example of 198 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: every law school throughout the United States. And make no 199 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: mistake about it, Nancy, he was wanted. He was indicted 200 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: and wanted by RAMAPO for the deep violent felony rape 201 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 1: charge and tried to elude police. In fact, as a 202 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: tape recorded conversations between the deceased and the grandmother set 203 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: up by the police, where he said, what's the problem 204 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: with having sex with a fourteen year old? You know, 205 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: in my country it's normal. I'm not abiding by the 206 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: laws of the United States. I'm never going to jail. 207 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: I'm not going to jail. I'm never going to jail. 208 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: You know what they do with people like me in jail. 209 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: He befriends a great couple, Dave Carson and his wife 210 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: they feed him, they give him work. He lied to 211 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: him about his name, and then Boom told him that 212 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm wanted for a rape. What did the police do? 213 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: They set this man up, get in the car, put 214 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: him in the car. We'll pull you over. They don't 215 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: show up. What happened There was a shift chain. Sorry, 216 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: next day, do it again. They pull the suspect over 217 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: and I hope the police officers listening to the station. 218 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: You know you have any identification? No, where do you live? 219 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: Right down the road. They put him in the back 220 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: of the cop car, uncuffed. They take him to a 221 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: location where he said he lived, where he didn't. They 222 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: opened the car. He shoves and pushs a police officer 223 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: out of the way, runs and escapes down the hill. 224 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: No pursuit. Why didn't you pursue him? We had no 225 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: probable cause. Once they found out who he was, they 226 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: set up a swap team unit of final know ben 227 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: how many guys were there, twenty five thirty helicopters, boats. 228 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: They searched everywhere for this guy. And then what they do. 229 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: They told my client, he has our cell phone, Ubercolus. 230 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: If you see the guy. He wakes up the next morning. 231 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: The guy's fare, looking dishelved and mad. David Carson didn't 232 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: kill him on the spot. He's pointed the shotgun at 233 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: him and walked him eight hundred feet. He went to 234 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: the first house, nobody's home. Let go a shot, No 235 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: one listened. Went to the second house, let go another shot. 236 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: Nobody was listening. He had four in the barrel. Two 237 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: left Nancy. He goes a total of eight hundred feet 238 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: trying to turn this man in and gets on the 239 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: call nine one one when Norris a car Sanchez went 240 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: for it and then he just shot him. It's a 241 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: debacle of the police department unparalleled in my thirty two 242 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: years forty six year old dad killed a wanted child 243 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: rapist and then faced twenty years behind bars. I'm talking 244 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: about David Carlson, forty six years old, who shoots down 245 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,479 Speaker 1: Norris acoust To Sanchez, thirty five. Acosta. Sanchez had confessed 246 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: to sleeping with a fourteen year old girl. Carlson twice 247 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: tried to have acost Of Sanchez arrested after he confessed. 248 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: The two attempts and a third by a swat team, 249 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: all unsuccessful. Carlson caught acost Of Sanchez himself and was 250 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: taking him to the police, and while doing so, he 251 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: lunged at Carlson, who shot him in self defense. He 252 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: goes on trial for shooting a wanted child rapist who 253 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: wandered onto his property and then admitted to repeated sex 254 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: acts with a fourteen year old girl. Not only that, 255 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: he's wanted by Homeland Security. Now what I don't get 256 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: day in day out, Joseph Scott, Morgan forensics expert, Day 257 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: in day out, you're a death investigator. You have to 258 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: go to court as much as I did as a prosecutor. 259 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: I see purps, and I read police reports, and I 260 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: see how so many defendants get away. We're always asked, Hey, 261 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: you ever convected an innocent person? I'm like, hblel, No, 262 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: I can't get all the guilty people. There's not enough 263 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: police and detectives and ages to get the guilty people. No. 264 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: And here, Joe Scott, have you ever seen a guy 265 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: trying to affect an arrest of a child rapist pulls 266 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: a gun and now he's going to jail for twenty years. 267 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: I don't get it as completely bass Ackwards. Yeah, it 268 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: really is, Nancy. And here's the reality this guy's faced with. 269 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: He's having to, you know, to literally step in the 270 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: gap and do the job that the original prosecutors should 271 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: have done with this person, to dispose of this fellow 272 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: and dispose of this case in an appropriate manner. And now, 273 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: as a result of you know, the lack of attention 274 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: to detail, their carelessness, they've destroyed this poor man's life. 275 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Nancy, when I began to read 276 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: the brief on this case, my mind was blown. I 277 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: had not heard of this case, and it's amazing. We 278 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: see so much stuff that comes through the news nowadays, 279 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: it's just idol chatter. This particular case rocked me to 280 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: my core because, you know, there but for the grace 281 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: of God, go I or anybody else that's put into 282 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: this position. And now his life is in shambles, a shambles. Hey, 283 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: Michael Mazzarello, tell me why it was the guy? Now 284 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: he had a warrant for him for as I say, 285 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: statutory rape sex with a fourteen year old child. You 286 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: call it a I think you said a classdief violent felony. 287 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: You say Tomato, I say Tomato. Ben Austro Austro and Associates, 288 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: attorney for David Carlson. This guy not only wanted for 289 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: forcing himself on a fourteen year old girl in a 290 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: nearby town, also wanted by Homeland Security for what well. 291 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: He had entered the country legally, but he had overstayed 292 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: his visa, had applied for status based upon his heritage. 293 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: He had family members that had lived in Cuba, lived 294 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: in Europe, and he was denied status here and he overstayed, 295 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: so he was actually in the country illegally at the time. That, 296 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: of course, has nothing to do with the actual underlying 297 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: criminal conduct. But I think the at the heart of 298 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 1: this case is the fact that David Carlson had him 299 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: at the end of a gun. There's one gun and 300 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: two people, and if mister Sanchez is taking action by 301 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: lunging towards Carlson, I don't think it leaves Carlson with 302 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: much of a choice. You either use the guy or 303 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: be prepared to lose the gun, and in this particular case, 304 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: tragically it resulted in the loss of life. But I 305 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: think Carlson's conduct, at least under the law in New York, 306 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: and as Judge Freehill find it found at the retrial, 307 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: found David's conduct to be justified and if it's justified 308 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: that's our word in New York State for self defense, 309 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: then that based is what the judge based the acquittal upon. 310 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. The hunt for thirty five 311 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: year old Morris Acosta Sanchez began yesterday when a squad 312 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: of cops from Orange County he tried to serve as 313 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: search warrant on the Deer Park cabin where the outlaw 314 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: had been hiding. Acosta Sanchez was wanted on two fenalt 315 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: accounts of second degree rape, but he wasn't going easily 316 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: from the woods. The accused rapist took off. A pursuit 317 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: happened last night where the guy ran off and actually 318 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: swam across the Ryo Reservoir into the next town. Somehow, 319 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: with law enforcement chasing, Acosta Sanchez was able to make 320 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: it all the way across the reservoir into Lumberland, Sullivan County. 321 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: The rape suspect had apparently eluded police. After the nighttime escape. 322 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: Investigators say the wanted suspect did something inexplicable. He returned 323 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: to the woods from which he had just fled. Was 324 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: probably a good place for this guy to hide out, 325 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: or maybe he thought that this time though a Costa. 326 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: Sanchez was greeted not by police, but by a neighbor 327 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: in the rural community. Details are unclear as to how 328 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: the confrontation unfolded, but investigators say that neighbor killed the 329 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: rape suspect, shooting him. How in the hay did a 330 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: forty six year old husband and father of three end 331 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: up facing twenty years behind bars, accused of a violent 332 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: vigilante justice killing this guy? David Carlson shoots an alleged 333 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: child rapist goes on trial for murder. Now think about it, 334 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: when you don't know a horse, look at his track 335 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: record with me, Susan Edelman reported New York Post. Susan, 336 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: the cops had tried, unsuccessfully several times to get this guy, 337 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: Norris Accosta Sanchez. Now, what do you if he would 338 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: do that with the cops, a group of cops chasing him. 339 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: What do you think he would do with David Carlson 340 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 1: who was trying to turn him in. There was no 341 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: question that he was desperate and he did not want 342 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: to go to jail. And that's what was in David 343 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: Carlson's mind, that this guy was desperate and would do 344 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: anything to escape. I wanted to also note that the 345 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: reason he didn't get into the United States, or he 346 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: wasn't given a visa, was because he had some kind 347 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: of crime of moral turpitude on his record, which I 348 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: was never able to find out what that was. You know, 349 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: I also know that on several occasions police were actually 350 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: recruiting Carlson. It's not like he sat around and hatched 351 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: this all up all by himself. You know, I'm very 352 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: curious to Michael Mazzarello, former Host Street court attorney for 353 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: David Carlson, along with Ben Austro. Michael, at that moment 354 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: when it was announced in court he's guilty, He's going 355 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: to jail. That must have been like a kick in 356 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: the stomach, a kick in the teeth for David Carlson. 357 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: It was devastating to all of us. It was, as 358 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: Ben always says, there was no winners, but it was devastating. 359 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 1: We did the trial pro bono. Ben Astro is one 360 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: of the best criminal defense attorneys in the Northeast car 361 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: We pay he paid for all the transcripts. He you know, 362 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: dais for the trial. It was devastating. It was devastating 363 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 1: to his three children, all his family members. I don't 364 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: know what else to say, Nancy, it was it's very 365 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: difficult to pick a jury. And you know I always 366 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: say I don't argue with the jury. They do what 367 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: they think is right. So I do. I argue with 368 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: the jury all the time. I mean, they're just regular 369 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: people like us, and sometimes they can be wrong. Bam, 370 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: there I said it, Ben Ostra, what was that moment? Like? 371 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: In court, you guys go to the mat pro bono, 372 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: which means for free to represent this guy, David Carlson, husband, father, 373 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: union carpenter. He is the one that gets the bad guy, 374 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: the child rapist, and now he is facing twenty years 375 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: behind bars. When you hear guilty in the courtroom, what 376 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: was that moment like? Well, actually, Nancy, the jury first 377 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: announced a not guilty verdict on murder in the second degree, 378 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: so are you know we were buoyed by that, and 379 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: moments later they convicted him after seven days of deliberations 380 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: of manslaughter in the first degree. We were obviously devastated, 381 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: but we had always hoped that we would vindicate David, 382 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: and yet thankfully he was out on bail pending appeal, 383 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: and the Second Department of the Appellate Division reversed that 384 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: conviction and gave us an opportunity at a retrial. But 385 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: it was a devastating moment to hear that jury find 386 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: our client and find David guilty. We believed he had 387 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: been enlisted by police in one quarter. He had great 388 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: support from his neighbors. They posted his bail. David was 389 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: out on one hundred thousand dollars bail that was increased 390 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: to five thousand dollars on appeal, and in each instance 391 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: it was his neighbors and friends who posted the collateral 392 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: and paid the bonding company. David didn't have those resources. 393 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: You know, I want to talk about the actual wound. 394 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: A forensic pathologist describing the fatal gunshot wounds at trial. 395 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: I know that there were two wounds, one entering his 396 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: left arm about two inches below the shoulder, exiting from 397 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: the back. That would indicate self defense. To me's not 398 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: like you got shot in the back. The entry is 399 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: left arm two inches below the shoulder, it exits from 400 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: the back of the arm. That's consistent with self defense. 401 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: The fatal wound, which entered the left side of his 402 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: head through the ear, let me go to death. Investigator 403 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics Jacksonville State University and author 404 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joe Scott Morgan, 405 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: please analyze the FEND findings regarding cod cause of death. 406 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: As you were mentioning Nancy, there is a shot that 407 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: passes through his arm, and if we begin to piece 408 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: this together, relative to the description that David had given 409 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: at the time, he essentially tried to render this guy 410 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: to a point where he couldn't approach him anymore. Remember 411 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: he's talking about that this guy is advancing on him. 412 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: He senses danger on the part of the fugitive and 413 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: he fires at him just to kind of knock him down. 414 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: And can you imagine being in these circumstances you're faced 415 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: with this. It's not like this guy has been trained 416 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: in escalation of force or anything like the police are. 417 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: It's a different standard for the general public. He's holding 418 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: a shotgun on this guy and the guy utters, literally 419 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: utters an expletive at him, rises to his feet, and 420 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: then begins to advance on him again. Adrenaline's pumping, he 421 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: fires again and literally literally drops this guy right where 422 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: he stands. The interesting part, though, and I think that 423 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: this is probably what the jury was looking at they're 424 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: wanting to They're probably trying to understand, you know, how, 425 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: how exactly is this guy killed? If he shot in 426 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: the left side of the head. Was this in their 427 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: mind at least maybe an execution. You've already shot him once. 428 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: Why didn't you let it go at that? And I 429 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: think that that's probably what turned to tide against him 430 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: in this case. I want to go to John Cardillo, 431 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: host of America Talks on Newsmax TV and former nyp 432 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: D John Cardillo, you know how much I hate attacking police. 433 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: But when it's the truth, it's the truth. There's no 434 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: way around it. Why would police recruit a civilian? David 435 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: carl said, why excuse me. I was speaking to a 436 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: bunch of police officers and active police officers, Nancy, and 437 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: they were all shaking their heads. Luck when we look 438 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: at this as law enforcement people, this man's a hero. 439 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: David Carlson is an absolute hero. Now is it uncommon 440 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: for small agencies without the manpower the NYPD, the LAPD 441 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: Chicago to sometimes enlist people to assist them. No, it's not. 442 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: But to me and every other cop I spoke to 443 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: about this, that strength in David Carlson's case even further 444 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: when he held that guy at gunpoint, this rapist, and 445 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: I agree with the other guest, there is no statutory 446 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: rape in New York. This guy is a violent predatory 447 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: child rapist. When he was holding him at gunpoint, he 448 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: wasn't just some random homeowner. He was now an agent 449 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: of the government. He was doing this because the police 450 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: asked him to help. He did all he could. This 451 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: guy did all he could to summon help, to get 452 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: a neighbor, somebody to call the police in a rural 453 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,719 Speaker 1: area where police responds times were probably twenty thirty minutes. 454 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: And when this violent felon, violent rapist GUYO came into 455 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: the country illegally and laughed at our laws and went 456 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: on to rape children and mocked law enforcement turned on him. 457 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: To me, to many in law enforcement, I don't care 458 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: if he shot the guy once or he emptied that 459 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: magazine of shotgun shells on him. The bad guy deserved it. 460 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter the minute you make the minute you 461 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: make the determination to use deadly force. Use deadly force 462 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: that means you feel your life and the lives of 463 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: other innocence are in danger, and you shoot until you 464 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: are sure that threat is stopped. This guy should be 465 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: given a medal, an acquittal, and an apology from New 466 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: York State. This case, to me, is an absolute travesty 467 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: of justice. Guys, Nancy Chris here we are heading straight 468 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: into breaking crime and justice news. But first, how can't 469 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: you keep yourself and your children safe? I have investigated 470 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: and prosecuted literally thousands of felony cases. I have covered 471 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: literally thousands of cases of missing people, adults and children, 472 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: unsolved homicides, violent crimes. After all the cases, after speaking 473 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: to all the victims, all the police, all the witnesses 474 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: over years, what can we do about it? I don't 475 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: want to just sit back and report on it. I 476 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: want to take action. And I know you must feel 477 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: the same way. You don't want to just hear about crime. 478 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: You want to do something about it and do something 479 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: to stop it. And here is the news. Don't Be 480 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: a Victim Fighting back against America's crime Wave a brand 481 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: new book. After interviewing literally hundreds of crime victims and police, 482 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: we put our knowledge into Don't Be a Victim. This 483 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: book is for everyone he wants to stay safe, or 484 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: he wants to keep your loved one safe. Crime online 485 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: dot Com pre order now and know that portions of 486 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: our proceeds goes to the National Center for Missing and 487 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: Exploited Children Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Carlson even tried 488 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: several times to help police capture Acosta Sanchez just days 489 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: before the shooting last October, but when things went southeas says, 490 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: Acosta Sanchez showed up to his home angry. Carlson then 491 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: grabbed his gun and began escorting the fugitive to a 492 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: neighbor's house to call police. A nearby surveillance camera captured 493 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: the two walking, but what happens next is out of frame. 494 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: According to Carlson, Acosta Sanchez lunged repeatedly, forcing him to 495 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: fire in self defense. Dave essentially was an agent for 496 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: the police in trying to a system. Carlson's claim of 497 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: self defense was never related to a grand jury Fursday. 498 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: The District Attorney's office now has the option to appeal 499 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: the case. In the meantime, Carlson has a great deal 500 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: of support and remains hopeful. I'm a little worried, but 501 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,479 Speaker 1: I do have faith in our g DSTAL system. You're 502 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: hearing our friends at ABC. I witnessed seven News that 503 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: was reporter A. J. Ross, Well, he had misplaced faith 504 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: because this guy who manages to capture a child rapist, 505 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: a confessed child rapist, one of my homeland security ends 506 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: up facing twenty years behind bars. Straight out to Susan Edelman, 507 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: reporter with the New York Post, as Susan, isn't it 508 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: true that once he eluded cops by basically swimming across 509 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: a body of water, he comes back to David Carlson's house, 510 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: starts banging on the door, angry, furious, And that's when 511 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: the whole thing played out. Susan Edelman, His wife and 512 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: children had we're staying with a neighbor because they were terrified. 513 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: The whole community was terrified of this guy, and that 514 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: left the responsibility to take care of things on David Carlson. 515 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 1: And he decided, as he told a cost of that minute, 516 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: he goes with me, pulled out the shotgun, he said, 517 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: this ends today. He was fed up with the police 518 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: to arrest the guy after another and he had gotten away, 519 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: so running down creeks, swimming over reservoirs, and now he 520 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: was back banging on the door, and he decided, Hey, 521 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to do something about this now. And he 522 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: did not want to kill him, he said, he has, 523 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: he said immediately afterwards, I did not want to kill him. 524 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: I did not want to shoot him, but he lunged it. 525 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: You know, Susan Edelman joining me from the New York Post, 526 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: you just told me a fact. I didn't know that 527 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: the community was so afraid of this guy, that Carlson 528 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 1: had sent away his wife and children. And now I 529 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: was just reading the article about it in the New 530 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: York Post that you helped write. Susan Edelman. He loses 531 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: everything after this court battle. He's lost his wife, he's 532 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:19,919 Speaker 1: lost his home, He's lost everything. Susan, what happened, Well, 533 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: it's more than just breaking up with his family, his mind. 534 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: He's lost his peace of mind. He's gonna he's gonna 535 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: have to live for the rest of his life knowing 536 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: that he took a life that he did not want 537 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 1: to take, that he killed someone, and he's going to 538 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,880 Speaker 1: be torn over whether he should have He told police afterwards, 539 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,720 Speaker 1: maybe I should have stopped after the first be okay 540 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: thing with this and tormented and haunted by this for 541 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: the rest of his life and so and he is 542 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: undergoing therapy for post traumatic stress syndrome, So it's he's 543 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: going to have to take a long time to heal 544 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: from this. Take a listener. Friends at ABC Eyewitnessed seven 545 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: News AJ Ross He's accused of taking the law into 546 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: his own hands against an alleged rapist, but David Carlson 547 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: says he fired his gun in self defense, an important 548 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: detail that was somehow left out of grand jury testimony, 549 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: and one of many details he shared with me here tonight, 550 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 1: a day after an Orange County judge dismissed his murder case, 551 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: David Carlson and his attorney opened up about new details 552 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: never before heard by grand jury jurors inside this food 553 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: pantry where he regularly volunteers. I didn't do this out 554 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: of being a vigil auntie or trying to take the 555 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: law into my own hands. It was just an unfortunate 556 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: event that ended in a tragedy. Carlson was accused of 557 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: shooting and killing Norris Acosta Sanchez, an alleged rapist on 558 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: the run hiding out next door to his family. All 559 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: the families in this area were really very afraid that 560 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: there was a fugitive at large. Wait a minute. Michael Mazzarelli, 561 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: former Huse Street court attorney for David Carlson. So he's 562 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: a dad, he's a husband, has been. He's a union carpenter. 563 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: You know, my dad was in the Union with the railroad. 564 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:10,320 Speaker 1: He volunteers at a food pantry and he was charged 565 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: with murder. Michael, how did he end up losing his 566 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,479 Speaker 1: home and his family, Nancy. He had a beautiful house 567 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: and actually he was a farmer, a lot of He 568 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: had horses, chickens, the goats, and the stress of the trial, 569 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 1: six years of making six years verses of court appearances. 570 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: He tried to maintain a steady job and he couldn't 571 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: pay the mortgage anymore, and everything collapsed on him. It's 572 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: a mental situation that few people that understand unless you 573 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: go through a total horror. Doctor Bethany Marshall, Psychoanas joining 574 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: us out of la at Doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. 575 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I can't remember what they all are, but 576 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:02,439 Speaker 1: there are either seven or ten major things that happen 577 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: in your life that can throw people into depression, make 578 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: them suicidal, break up your marriage just I think one 579 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: is divorce. One is a death, their loss of a child, 580 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,800 Speaker 1: loss of a spouse. This sounds like it to me. 581 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: This guy went through Definitely he has post traumatic stress. 582 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: This is so traumatic, Nancy. Remember this fugitive and I 583 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 1: didn't realize this until I was listening to the panel 584 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,399 Speaker 1: of the story came together in my mind. Not only 585 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: did this fugitive stalk and perpetrate sex crimes against a 586 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,320 Speaker 1: fourteen year old, but then he stalked Carlson and stalked 587 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: the community. He repeated the offending pattern, and so Carlson 588 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: ended up being another victim of this fugitive. They took 589 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 1: him in, they were kind to him, they find out 590 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,320 Speaker 1: he's a child molester, they no longer befriend him, and 591 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: then he starts to become threatening towards the family in 592 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: the community. The police should never, ever, ever have enlisted 593 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: Carlson's support because he was a victim in this whole situation. 594 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: In terms of post traumatic stress, there's a new new 595 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: definition coming out of the field of the neurosciences, which 596 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: is that trauma is when we experience something in our 597 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: lives for which there's no prior learning. Meaning let's say 598 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,320 Speaker 1: you your dog dies, or your spouse break you know 599 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: it decides to divorce you. There is some prior learning 600 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: because we all experience loss throughout the lifespan, so we 601 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: know how every time we have a loss prior learning 602 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: for coping with being stalked, your family, being threatened, being 603 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: enlisted by the police, killing somebody inadvertently, going through a 604 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: protracted legal proceeding, losing everything, losing your family, finally being freed, 605 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: And as Carlson said, he keeps looking over his shoulder 606 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: thinking that the judge and the court system is going 607 00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: to say, oh, I made a mistake. You have to 608 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: come back to jail. So now he has the fear 609 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: of being retraumatized and be victimized, and he's going to 610 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: have that for the rest of his life. This guy, 611 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,800 Speaker 1: David Carlson, was fishing with pale when a guy in 612 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,760 Speaker 1: shorts pops out of the woods and says, hey, I'm Daniel. 613 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 1: He was the caretaker of a vacant cabin next to 614 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 1: Carlson's home in upstate New York. Carlson befriended the guy, 615 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,760 Speaker 1: gave him odd jobs in exchange for food his wife's 616 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: homemade bread. There I sat at Bethany just for you. 617 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:40,240 Speaker 1: Long story short. One night, while they're out sitting outside 618 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: around a campfire, this guy that we now know to 619 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: be Norris Accosta. Sanchez confides his real name and that 620 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: he was wanted for sex with a little girl in Ramapo, 621 00:40:54,840 --> 00:41:00,399 Speaker 1: New York. He grumbled the charges were unfair. He called 622 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: the little girl quote that little bitch. And I am 623 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: recounting exactly a quote from Susan Edelman that she wrote 624 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,839 Speaker 1: in one of her mini mini articles in the New 625 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: York Post. Did you hear that John Cardilo that little bit? 626 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 1: That's what he called a little girl. Oh, he's a 627 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: reprehensible guy. And but let's I want the listeners to 628 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 1: understand something here, and how devastating this is. Every analysis 629 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: we just heard from all your experts is spot on. 630 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: But I've been doing a lot of reports on criminal 631 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 1: justice reform and when a guy like David Carlson, and 632 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: this blew my mind. When a guy like David Carlson 633 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 1: is convicted and he gets a felony conviction, and if 634 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: he's retried and they do it again, even if he 635 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 1: buys some act of God, he's allowed out of jail 636 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,720 Speaker 1: in thirty days with that felony conviction. In the United States, 637 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: there are forty four thousand collateral consequences. People don't think 638 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,800 Speaker 1: about that. He can't be licensed to even be a barber. 639 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: He basically can't get a credit card, can't rent an apartment. 640 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: Most banks won't give him a lease or a loan 641 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 1: on a vehicle. Forty four thousand collateral consequences for helping 642 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: the police and taking a violent predatory child rapist out 643 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: of the equation. And I just hope juries when they 644 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: look at these self defense cases, they don't get sanctimonious 645 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: and say, Wow, he's not the police, he shouldn't be 646 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: doing that. I hope they understand what they're really really 647 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: doing with these decisions, because this is a good guy. 648 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,320 Speaker 1: This is a decent, hard working family man. They destroyed 649 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: this man's life, and god forbid they do it to 650 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: him again, and all it takes Nancy, You know, this 651 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,279 Speaker 1: is one over zealous prosecutor who's trying to make a 652 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 1: name for themselves and victimizing him over again. Forty four 653 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: thousand collateral consequences. Look, the cops should never have arrested him. 654 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 1: I can tell you this. If this for me and 655 00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: my squad, I worked the gun union in the Bronx 656 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 1: after real bad guys, because I've done it, we would 657 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: have been arguing with the district attorney, saying, you put 658 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 1: us on the stand, we're gonna call him a hero. 659 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: We're gonna blow your taste. The final thought to Ben 660 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 1: Ostrogo ahead, Ben Nancy. I believe ultimately David's faith in 661 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,400 Speaker 1: the criminal justice system was vindicated. Although it took six years, 662 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 1: Judge Freehill did find him not guilty and freed him. 663 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 1: It's regrettable that it took as long as it did, 664 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,879 Speaker 1: but thanks to people like Michael, and we had other 665 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 1: people on the defense team, former NYPD officer Vincecato who 666 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: did some investigative work, of Rebecca Lenkowski, Marissa Tooey, David Wallace. 667 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: It was a joint effort and took us six years 668 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: and three months, but it was ultimately we did vindicate 669 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,399 Speaker 1: David's faith in the criminal justice system, from that first 670 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: day when he went to report the fact that there 671 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:01,360 Speaker 1: was a confessed rapist in the woods to the January 672 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:06,400 Speaker 1: sixteenth when Judge free Hill announced the verdict. Certainly, it 673 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: was a team effort and we couldn't have done it 674 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 1: if we hadn't had a stand up guy like David 675 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: Carlson as our client. So it's been quite an experience 676 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 1: for all of us, and I believe at the end 677 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 1: of the day, despite a myriad of mistakes by police 678 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,080 Speaker 1: in the grand jury at trial leading to the reversal, 679 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,719 Speaker 1: leading to the dismissal of an indictment, we ultimately got 680 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,759 Speaker 1: a hard for it, not guilty verdict for David, and 681 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:41,160 Speaker 1: for that it's probably one of the most rewarding events 682 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: in my career and two. Michael Mazzarello, attorney for David 683 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: Carlson Michael Dancy. It's thirty one years of picking juries 684 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 1: and my faith in the system was rattled. Rattled because 685 00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 1: I couldn't believe that police officer could get on the 686 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,800 Speaker 1: stand and tell wild tales. I couldn't believe that police 687 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:09,320 Speaker 1: officers altered and changed documents two years after the fact. 688 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,320 Speaker 1: I couldn't believe that police officers that I know and 689 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,880 Speaker 1: love from being insistent DA would not just come in 690 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 1: and tell the truth. I was rattled. Ben's right. My 691 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 1: faith in the system was restored, but I'm still rattled. 692 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,120 Speaker 1: I still can't believe that these people that got on 693 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 1: the stand and just lied law enforcement, they got promotions, 694 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:37,240 Speaker 1: they got raises, and no ramifications whatsoever. I'm very happy 695 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,800 Speaker 1: for David. I think he is a simpleton that was 696 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,919 Speaker 1: put in the position that no person should ever ever 697 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,240 Speaker 1: be put in. And I just pray to God, Nancy, 698 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,759 Speaker 1: that you know, when I looked at Michael and Mario 699 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,120 Speaker 1: every night and I thought of David's children, I just 700 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,960 Speaker 1: thank god Judge Freehill did what he did. It was 701 00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,640 Speaker 1: quite a surprise and quite a hard for victory. And 702 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,360 Speaker 1: I have to thank Ben for putting out a substantial 703 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,640 Speaker 1: amount of money, expertise, and you know, the first trial, Nancy, 704 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: was seven days of good deliberations. It was stressed beyond belief, 705 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,239 Speaker 1: but it worked out, so we're happy. Another episode in 706 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,799 Speaker 1: American Justice. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,