1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,396 --> 00:00:23,476 Speaker 2: In the middle years of the twentieth century, Howard Hughes 3 00:00:23,556 --> 00:00:26,276 Speaker 2: was one of the richest and most famous people in 4 00:00:26,356 --> 00:00:30,076 Speaker 2: the world. He was tall, he was handsome. He took 5 00:00:30,076 --> 00:00:32,796 Speaker 2: his father's drill bit business and turned it into a 6 00:00:32,796 --> 00:00:36,956 Speaker 2: corporate colossus. He owned half of Las Vegas. He designed 7 00:00:36,996 --> 00:00:39,876 Speaker 2: some of the most technologically advanced planes of his era, 8 00:00:40,396 --> 00:00:43,556 Speaker 2: and once after he flew around the world in record time, 9 00:00:43,876 --> 00:00:46,236 Speaker 2: he was given a ticker tape parade down Broadway. 10 00:00:46,916 --> 00:00:49,596 Speaker 3: He drives letter through the man made canyons of Manhattan. 11 00:00:49,916 --> 00:00:52,516 Speaker 3: Wild paper streams from off his windows of Loud Broadway. 12 00:00:53,276 --> 00:00:55,556 Speaker 3: Thus New York pays honor to the pilot who has 13 00:00:55,596 --> 00:00:57,996 Speaker 3: carried the name of its far round the world and hermagain. 14 00:01:04,876 --> 00:01:08,396 Speaker 2: Hughes even owned a Hollywood studio, directed his own movies, 15 00:01:08,596 --> 00:01:11,596 Speaker 2: and squire every famous actress of the day around town. 16 00:01:12,236 --> 00:01:17,276 Speaker 2: Ava Gardner, Katherine Hepburn, Lana Turner. Today we have a 17 00:01:17,316 --> 00:01:21,916 Speaker 2: category for the celebrity playboy, a category for the entrepreneurial genius, 18 00:01:22,316 --> 00:01:26,516 Speaker 2: a category for the eccentric billionaire. In his day, Howard 19 00:01:26,556 --> 00:01:32,516 Speaker 2: Hughes was all those things all in one. But over 20 00:01:32,516 --> 00:01:35,076 Speaker 2: the last twenty years of his life Hughes became a 21 00:01:35,116 --> 00:01:39,756 Speaker 2: reckless He vanished from sight, never seen, never heard, with 22 00:01:39,876 --> 00:01:42,236 Speaker 2: the exception of an interview he gave in the early 23 00:01:42,316 --> 00:01:45,556 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies where he was asked about his relationship with 24 00:01:45,596 --> 00:01:47,236 Speaker 2: a man named Clifford Irving. 25 00:01:48,636 --> 00:01:54,676 Speaker 4: Yeah. I actually knew his dad, Jay. He was a 26 00:01:54,716 --> 00:01:58,676 Speaker 4: funny guy, a cartoonist. I thing met him in LA 27 00:01:59,036 --> 00:02:02,596 Speaker 4: when he was out on a publicity trip. Do you 28 00:02:02,636 --> 00:02:05,276 Speaker 4: remember when this was nineteen. 29 00:02:06,836 --> 00:02:08,796 Speaker 5: Or maybe forty one. 30 00:02:09,236 --> 00:02:12,636 Speaker 4: I was shooting The Outlaw with Jane Russell. Jay came 31 00:02:12,796 --> 00:02:14,196 Speaker 4: on the set. 32 00:02:14,716 --> 00:02:15,756 Speaker 5: We stayed in. 33 00:02:15,676 --> 00:02:16,676 Speaker 4: Touch on and off. 34 00:02:17,756 --> 00:02:18,916 Speaker 5: He had a little boy with. 35 00:02:18,956 --> 00:02:24,116 Speaker 4: Him, eight nine Clifford. I always thought that was an 36 00:02:24,156 --> 00:02:29,476 Speaker 4: old man's name. Strange to see a kid, Clifford. 37 00:02:30,916 --> 00:02:32,476 Speaker 2: The kid Clifford grew up to be a writer. 38 00:02:33,236 --> 00:02:35,916 Speaker 4: One day he sent me one of his books, Out 39 00:02:35,916 --> 00:02:41,996 Speaker 4: of the Blue, biography of some painter. God knows how 40 00:02:41,996 --> 00:02:47,716 Speaker 4: he found me. This must have been sixty eight sixty nine, 41 00:02:48,436 --> 00:02:52,356 Speaker 4: a good thirty years later, and I thought, what the hell? 42 00:02:53,796 --> 00:02:56,236 Speaker 4: Every other son of a bit just told my story. 43 00:02:57,556 --> 00:02:58,116 Speaker 5: Why not me? 44 00:03:00,756 --> 00:03:05,276 Speaker 2: Hughes wrote back, dear mister Irving, thank you for the 45 00:03:05,316 --> 00:03:08,916 Speaker 2: gift of your book, which I thoroughly enjoyed reading. It 46 00:03:09,196 --> 00:03:11,356 Speaker 2: seems to me that you've portrayed your man with great 47 00:03:11,436 --> 00:03:14,796 Speaker 2: consideration and sympathy when it would have been tempting to 48 00:03:14,836 --> 00:03:19,676 Speaker 2: do otherwise. For reasons you may readily understand, this has 49 00:03:19,716 --> 00:03:23,756 Speaker 2: impressed me yours truly, Howard R. 50 00:03:24,036 --> 00:03:24,396 Speaker 1: Hughes. 51 00:03:25,716 --> 00:03:30,436 Speaker 2: The note was handwritten, undated on yellow legal paper. Hughes 52 00:03:30,516 --> 00:03:33,636 Speaker 2: always wrote by hand on yellow legal pads. Clifford Irving 53 00:03:33,676 --> 00:03:37,956 Speaker 2: recalled years later that Hughes's handwriting quote extended well over 54 00:03:37,956 --> 00:03:42,636 Speaker 2: the ruled left hand margin, the way a schoolboy might write. 55 00:03:42,676 --> 00:03:46,036 Speaker 2: Clifford Irving read that note and thought, oh, this isn't 56 00:03:46,036 --> 00:03:48,956 Speaker 2: a thank you for a book. It's an invitation to 57 00:03:48,996 --> 00:03:51,796 Speaker 2: write a book. Hughes wants me to help him tell 58 00:03:51,836 --> 00:03:56,636 Speaker 2: his story, and so Clifford Irving did in an insane 59 00:03:56,796 --> 00:04:03,156 Speaker 2: and wonderful work called The Autobiography of Howard Hughes. My 60 00:04:03,236 --> 00:04:06,476 Speaker 2: name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, my 61 00:04:06,636 --> 00:04:11,636 Speaker 2: podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. This episode is a 62 00:04:11,636 --> 00:04:14,436 Speaker 2: book report like the kind you did in middle school, 63 00:04:14,676 --> 00:04:18,436 Speaker 2: only with a twist. Actually a lot of twists, so 64 00:04:18,516 --> 00:04:25,076 Speaker 2: many twists. Like I said, the book is kind of insane, 65 00:04:25,596 --> 00:04:31,036 Speaker 2: but also wonderful. From all of us here at Revisionist History, 66 00:04:31,476 --> 00:04:43,916 Speaker 2: the autobiography of Howard Hughes gets two thumbs up. When 67 00:04:43,956 --> 00:04:47,516 Speaker 2: Howard Hughes disappeared from sight in the last decades of 68 00:04:47,556 --> 00:04:50,916 Speaker 2: his life, it set off a frenzy of tabloid speculation. 69 00:04:51,636 --> 00:04:53,636 Speaker 2: He was the most famous man in the world, and 70 00:04:53,676 --> 00:04:56,756 Speaker 2: all of a sudden he was just gone. There were 71 00:04:56,836 --> 00:04:59,956 Speaker 2: rumors that had gone crazy, had hair down to his waist, 72 00:05:00,556 --> 00:05:03,636 Speaker 2: was living in squalor in a Vegas hotel. He'd become 73 00:05:03,716 --> 00:05:09,356 Speaker 2: the American Lockness Monster, a giant exotic creature submerged to 74 00:05:09,436 --> 00:05:13,396 Speaker 2: the murky depths of his own celebrity. As you can imagine. Then, 75 00:05:13,716 --> 00:05:17,036 Speaker 2: the publishers at McGraw hill were dumbfounded when Clifford Irving 76 00:05:17,076 --> 00:05:19,596 Speaker 2: told them that he'd been in touch with Hughes and 77 00:05:19,636 --> 00:05:24,276 Speaker 2: that Hughes wanted to collaborate on his memoirs. Irving was 78 00:05:24,316 --> 00:05:28,076 Speaker 2: a minor novelist, why on earth would Hughes have picked him? 79 00:05:28,836 --> 00:05:32,116 Speaker 2: But then Irving explained the family connection and reminded them 80 00:05:32,156 --> 00:05:36,436 Speaker 2: of Hughes's known eccentricity, and McGraw hill realized they had 81 00:05:36,476 --> 00:05:42,476 Speaker 2: been handed the publishing coup of the decade. They offered 82 00:05:42,476 --> 00:05:45,276 Speaker 2: a seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars advance for the book. 83 00:05:45,796 --> 00:05:49,516 Speaker 2: This was in nineteen seventy one. That was an extraordinary 84 00:05:49,596 --> 00:05:54,236 Speaker 2: sum of money. Irving told Hughes the news. Hughes responded 85 00:05:54,356 --> 00:05:57,636 Speaker 2: immediately told Irving to check into a hotel in Manhattan 86 00:05:57,956 --> 00:06:01,276 Speaker 2: and wait for a call. At three o'clock the next morning, 87 00:06:01,636 --> 00:06:05,156 Speaker 2: Hughes was on the line. He summoned Irving to Wahaka 88 00:06:05,436 --> 00:06:08,876 Speaker 2: in southern Mexico. There, Irving waited in a hotel for 89 00:06:08,956 --> 00:06:12,236 Speaker 2: two more days until a man named Pedro called him. 90 00:06:12,596 --> 00:06:15,716 Speaker 2: Pedro said, please meet me in front of the hotel. 91 00:06:15,956 --> 00:06:19,756 Speaker 2: At dawn. The two men drove to the top of 92 00:06:19,796 --> 00:06:23,916 Speaker 2: a mountain, pulling up alongside another car, Irving got out, 93 00:06:24,356 --> 00:06:27,316 Speaker 2: slid in on the passenger side, and there he was. 94 00:06:28,796 --> 00:06:31,356 Speaker 2: Irving would later write this of his first encounter with 95 00:06:31,396 --> 00:06:35,756 Speaker 2: the mysterious Hues. He wore a cheap, short sleeved shirt 96 00:06:36,036 --> 00:06:40,356 Speaker 2: of nondescript color, a tan cardigan with a button missing, 97 00:06:40,836 --> 00:06:44,316 Speaker 2: creaseless brown slacks, and a pair of loafers into which 98 00:06:44,316 --> 00:06:47,756 Speaker 2: his socks somehow always managed to slip and vanish, so 99 00:06:47,796 --> 00:06:50,156 Speaker 2: that when he crossed his legs. There was a gap 100 00:06:50,196 --> 00:06:53,636 Speaker 2: of bony white chin between the sliding sock and the 101 00:06:53,676 --> 00:06:59,116 Speaker 2: trouser cuff. The two men then began an extraordinary partnership. 102 00:06:59,756 --> 00:07:02,316 Speaker 2: Over the next few months, they would meet for mammoth 103 00:07:02,356 --> 00:07:06,316 Speaker 2: interview sessions in Paradise Island and the Bahamas, Palm Beach, 104 00:07:06,436 --> 00:07:11,396 Speaker 2: Puerto Rico. Irving recorded hours and hours of Hughes's recollections. 105 00:07:11,996 --> 00:07:14,996 Speaker 2: The result was a book told entirely in Hughes's voice 106 00:07:15,316 --> 00:07:18,396 Speaker 2: that in manuscript form ran to more than a thousand pages. 107 00:07:19,636 --> 00:07:23,276 Speaker 2: Anticipation for the autobiography ran so high that Irving was 108 00:07:23,276 --> 00:07:26,516 Speaker 2: booked on sixty minutes for a sit down with Mike Wallace. 109 00:07:27,756 --> 00:07:29,316 Speaker 1: Is he a good looking man still? 110 00:07:31,116 --> 00:07:34,196 Speaker 6: He has the good looks of a man who once 111 00:07:34,356 --> 00:07:37,556 Speaker 6: was extremely handsome and has dignity in his face. 112 00:07:37,836 --> 00:07:38,756 Speaker 1: Does he wear a beard? 113 00:07:40,356 --> 00:07:44,636 Speaker 6: Not a real one? Not a real one. What I 114 00:07:44,716 --> 00:07:48,236 Speaker 6: mean is he has on occasion worn false beards and 115 00:07:48,316 --> 00:07:51,796 Speaker 6: false mustaches and wigs. With you, Mike, I said, there's 116 00:07:51,796 --> 00:07:54,556 Speaker 6: a James Bond set up here that's out of the 117 00:07:54,596 --> 00:07:58,676 Speaker 6: worst possible detective novel you could ever read. 118 00:08:00,036 --> 00:08:02,836 Speaker 2: Everyone was hungry to know about the mysterious Howard Hughes. 119 00:08:03,196 --> 00:08:07,356 Speaker 2: Clifford Irving held press conferences. Life Magazine paid a fortune 120 00:08:07,356 --> 00:08:10,116 Speaker 2: to run excerpts of the forthcoming out of biography. The 121 00:08:10,196 --> 00:08:13,596 Speaker 2: bidding for paperback rights went through. The roof the world 122 00:08:13,636 --> 00:08:17,316 Speaker 2: thought the Autobiography of Howard Hughes would sell millions upon 123 00:08:17,396 --> 00:08:26,436 Speaker 2: millions of copies, except mcgrahill never published it. No one 124 00:08:26,436 --> 00:08:29,676 Speaker 2: did until nineteen ninety nine, when a now defunct outfit 125 00:08:29,756 --> 00:08:33,956 Speaker 2: called www dot Terrific Books dot Com out of Santa Fe, 126 00:08:33,956 --> 00:08:37,836 Speaker 2: New Mexico, printed it up and put it for sale online. 127 00:08:37,916 --> 00:08:40,236 Speaker 2: I found my copy in the Ugh's bookstore in England. 128 00:08:40,876 --> 00:08:48,396 Speaker 2: The Autobiography of Howard Hughes all but disappeared. And why 129 00:08:49,556 --> 00:08:51,756 Speaker 2: because just as the book was about to come out, 130 00:08:52,116 --> 00:08:57,596 Speaker 2: Howard Hughes called a press conference. He was in his 131 00:08:57,676 --> 00:09:01,076 Speaker 2: penthouse suite at the Britannia Beach Hotel on Paradise Island 132 00:09:01,116 --> 00:09:05,756 Speaker 2: in Nassau, speaking to an assembled group of journalists by phone. Because, 133 00:09:05,756 --> 00:09:08,596 Speaker 2: of course, Howard Hughes never showed his face in public. 134 00:09:09,236 --> 00:09:11,996 Speaker 2: Hughes declared that he'd never met Clifford Irving. 135 00:09:12,916 --> 00:09:19,836 Speaker 5: Ever, Well, this must go down in history. I only 136 00:09:19,876 --> 00:09:23,516 Speaker 5: wish I was still in the movie business because I 137 00:09:23,556 --> 00:09:31,356 Speaker 5: don't remember any scripts as wild or as uh stretching 138 00:09:31,436 --> 00:09:35,676 Speaker 5: of the imagination is this yarn has turned out to be. 139 00:09:36,596 --> 00:09:38,756 Speaker 5: I'm not talking about the biography s over, because I've 140 00:09:38,796 --> 00:09:39,356 Speaker 5: never read it. 141 00:09:40,276 --> 00:09:45,436 Speaker 2: Howard Hughes says he's never read or seen or participated in, 142 00:09:46,116 --> 00:09:48,916 Speaker 2: or even heard of the book that's supposed to be 143 00:09:48,956 --> 00:09:50,196 Speaker 2: his own autobiography. 144 00:09:51,036 --> 00:09:53,596 Speaker 5: I don't know what's in it, but I mean, this 145 00:09:53,796 --> 00:10:00,996 Speaker 5: episode is just so fantastic that it taxes your imagination 146 00:10:01,196 --> 00:10:03,556 Speaker 5: to believe in a thing like this could happen. Norm 147 00:10:03,676 --> 00:10:05,836 Speaker 5: I never saw him, I never even heard of him 148 00:10:05,876 --> 00:10:12,196 Speaker 5: until days ago, when this thing first came to my attention. 149 00:10:17,316 --> 00:10:21,516 Speaker 2: Can you believe it? Everything was made up? The autobiography 150 00:10:21,596 --> 00:10:24,356 Speaker 2: was a work of fiction. Howard Hughes never wrote Clifford 151 00:10:24,356 --> 00:10:26,796 Speaker 2: Irving a letter on a yellow legal pad. The two 152 00:10:26,836 --> 00:10:29,196 Speaker 2: of them never met in Wahaka or Palm Beach or 153 00:10:29,236 --> 00:10:32,076 Speaker 2: Puerto Rico. And as for the interview with Hughes about 154 00:10:32,076 --> 00:10:34,716 Speaker 2: meeting Clifford Irving as a kid, I made that one 155 00:10:34,796 --> 00:10:39,676 Speaker 2: up just to get in the spirit of things for 156 00:10:39,796 --> 00:10:42,516 Speaker 2: a brief moment in the literary life of nineteen seventy 157 00:10:42,516 --> 00:10:46,516 Speaker 2: two America. Clifford Irving was a major scandal. He wound 158 00:10:46,596 --> 00:10:49,676 Speaker 2: up in prison, his marriage fell apart. He tried to 159 00:10:49,716 --> 00:10:53,276 Speaker 2: capitalize on his hoax with a memoir called The Hoax. 160 00:10:53,916 --> 00:10:55,676 Speaker 2: It was made into a movie with Witch of Gear, 161 00:10:56,036 --> 00:10:59,956 Speaker 2: which Irving hated in yet another of Irving's many feats 162 00:10:59,956 --> 00:11:02,956 Speaker 2: of hutzba because he thought it took too many liberties 163 00:11:02,996 --> 00:11:06,636 Speaker 2: with the truth. But I'm not all that interested in 164 00:11:06,716 --> 00:11:10,716 Speaker 2: Irving the hoaxer. I'm more interested in the hoax e 165 00:11:11,396 --> 00:11:15,716 Speaker 2: Howard Hughes. This entire book report is really just a 166 00:11:15,796 --> 00:11:21,196 Speaker 2: meditation on those two absolutely baffling sentences from the real 167 00:11:21,276 --> 00:11:24,836 Speaker 2: Howard Hughes' phone call with the media. I never read it. 168 00:11:25,756 --> 00:11:30,316 Speaker 2: I don't know what's in it. An accomplished writer writes 169 00:11:30,356 --> 00:11:33,276 Speaker 2: a fake autobiography of you, and you set out to 170 00:11:33,316 --> 00:11:36,596 Speaker 2: squash it. You make it disappear, turn it from what 171 00:11:36,636 --> 00:11:39,836 Speaker 2: would have been an enormous bestseller into something you can 172 00:11:39,876 --> 00:11:43,796 Speaker 2: only get years later from terrific books dot com. And 173 00:11:43,836 --> 00:11:48,596 Speaker 2: you didn't even read it, Oh, Howard, you idiot? 174 00:11:55,156 --> 00:11:58,036 Speaker 1: Well what if fact made you decide to pull this hoax? 175 00:11:58,996 --> 00:12:01,836 Speaker 2: After he was discovered, Clifford Irvings sat down with one 176 00:12:01,916 --> 00:12:06,116 Speaker 2: journalist after another trying to explain himself. This is an 177 00:12:06,156 --> 00:12:08,716 Speaker 2: interview with the BBC, but all the interviews he did 178 00:12:08,716 --> 00:12:13,516 Speaker 2: are the same. Basically, Irving can't explain himself well. 179 00:12:13,716 --> 00:12:17,476 Speaker 6: Undoubtedly some streak of lunacy, a screw loose somewhere, spirit 180 00:12:17,516 --> 00:12:23,556 Speaker 6: of adventure agreed. The literary challenge involved middle aged bored him, 181 00:12:23,556 --> 00:12:26,396 Speaker 6: a whole combination of things. It's a lot easier after 182 00:12:27,116 --> 00:12:30,276 Speaker 6: the event to analyze why you did what you did, 183 00:12:30,316 --> 00:12:32,956 Speaker 6: but generally you're wrong. I don't really know deep down 184 00:12:32,996 --> 00:12:33,596 Speaker 6: why I did it. 185 00:12:34,036 --> 00:12:37,716 Speaker 2: Irving wasn't desperate or broke. He was a pretty successful writer. 186 00:12:38,196 --> 00:12:40,276 Speaker 2: He had a four book deal with McGraw hill for 187 00:12:40,316 --> 00:12:42,956 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which would be close 188 00:12:42,996 --> 00:12:46,516 Speaker 2: to a million today. Irving lived in a charming seventeenth 189 00:12:46,596 --> 00:12:50,196 Speaker 2: century finca on the island of Ibiza. He was handsome 190 00:12:50,236 --> 00:12:53,356 Speaker 2: and dashing. He had a beautiful wife and two small boys, 191 00:12:53,876 --> 00:12:57,676 Speaker 2: plus a mistress, a blonde Danish aristocrat who was also 192 00:12:57,756 --> 00:13:01,716 Speaker 2: a world famous calypso singer. Apparently, because in the nineteen 193 00:13:01,716 --> 00:13:05,316 Speaker 2: seventies you could be a blonde Danish aristocrat and still 194 00:13:05,396 --> 00:13:10,356 Speaker 2: plausibly call yourself a calypso singer. Why did Irving risk 195 00:13:10,436 --> 00:13:14,676 Speaker 2: it all for a hoax? Irving died in twenty seventeen, 196 00:13:14,996 --> 00:13:19,156 Speaker 2: but he planted some clues scattered throughout the various autobiographical 197 00:13:19,156 --> 00:13:22,916 Speaker 2: accounts he left behind. For instance, there's his run in 198 00:13:23,556 --> 00:13:27,796 Speaker 2: with Chief Red Fox. Chief Red Fox was a Sioux 199 00:13:27,836 --> 00:13:30,556 Speaker 2: Indian actor and performer who was a kind of minor 200 00:13:30,676 --> 00:13:34,756 Speaker 2: celebrity in the late nineteen sixties and seventies. He claimed 201 00:13:34,756 --> 00:13:37,916 Speaker 2: to be the nephew of the famed Sioux Chief Crazy Horse, 202 00:13:38,476 --> 00:13:41,676 Speaker 2: and he made no less than five appearances on The 203 00:13:41,756 --> 00:13:42,716 Speaker 2: Johnny Carson Show. 204 00:13:43,436 --> 00:13:45,316 Speaker 4: Huh Ma, asked when you were born, Chief, I was 205 00:13:45,316 --> 00:13:47,556 Speaker 4: born June eleventh, eighteen seventies. 206 00:13:49,476 --> 00:13:52,516 Speaker 2: This was nineteen sixty seven, which would have made Chief 207 00:13:52,516 --> 00:13:55,076 Speaker 2: Red Fox ninety seven years old. 208 00:13:55,596 --> 00:13:56,396 Speaker 4: Ah, yes, you. 209 00:13:56,516 --> 00:13:58,396 Speaker 3: Want to know what kept me so young? 210 00:14:01,796 --> 00:14:02,636 Speaker 6: The show biz? 211 00:14:04,036 --> 00:14:05,956 Speaker 3: Yes, park me, but. 212 00:14:06,076 --> 00:14:09,396 Speaker 4: Smoking eighteens good cigars each day. 213 00:14:10,316 --> 00:14:12,996 Speaker 2: Eighteen Chief Fred Fox got a big book deal from 214 00:14:13,076 --> 00:14:16,356 Speaker 2: McGraw hill for his memoirs, but when Irving met him 215 00:14:16,356 --> 00:14:19,276 Speaker 2: at Red Fox's book party in Manhattan, he came away 216 00:14:19,316 --> 00:14:22,556 Speaker 2: convinced the Chief was neither a chief nor close to 217 00:14:22,636 --> 00:14:25,436 Speaker 2: one hundred years old, and in fact, and I'm quoting 218 00:14:25,516 --> 00:14:29,916 Speaker 2: now he resembled nothing so much as an old retired 219 00:14:29,996 --> 00:14:33,956 Speaker 2: shopkeeper sitting on the stoop of a Brooklyn tenement, rattling 220 00:14:33,996 --> 00:14:37,876 Speaker 2: on about his youth. Just imagine what must have gone 221 00:14:37,916 --> 00:14:41,956 Speaker 2: through Irving's mind. This guy can get a big publishing deal. 222 00:14:43,116 --> 00:14:46,836 Speaker 2: Then there's the book Irving wrote just before his Hughes autobiography. 223 00:14:47,436 --> 00:14:50,756 Speaker 2: That one was called and you can't make this up fake, 224 00:14:51,756 --> 00:14:55,676 Speaker 2: It's nonfiction, the biography of one of Irving's friends from Ibiza, 225 00:14:55,956 --> 00:15:04,676 Speaker 2: an accomplished art forger named Elmir Dehoy, whose real name, 226 00:15:04,756 --> 00:15:08,436 Speaker 2: it turns out, was probably not Elmir Dhore but whatever, 227 00:15:11,876 --> 00:15:14,756 Speaker 2: in one of the many byzantine twists to the Irving story. 228 00:15:14,956 --> 00:15:16,916 Speaker 2: And as I warned you, there are a mountain of 229 00:15:16,956 --> 00:15:20,676 Speaker 2: twists here. Orson Wells option fake and did a kind 230 00:15:20,676 --> 00:15:25,236 Speaker 2: of postmodern documentary on Dhore. It's Wells's next to last 231 00:15:25,236 --> 00:15:28,476 Speaker 2: film and maybe his least watchable. But there's a fantastic 232 00:15:28,556 --> 00:15:32,356 Speaker 2: moment where Wells interviews Irving about Dehoy's technique. 233 00:15:33,436 --> 00:15:35,836 Speaker 7: And I asked Elia to do three drawings for me, too, 234 00:15:35,876 --> 00:15:39,996 Speaker 7: Matisse and a Modiliani, which he did before lunch, and 235 00:15:40,116 --> 00:15:41,876 Speaker 7: put a little coffee stain on the edge of the 236 00:15:41,876 --> 00:15:45,596 Speaker 7: MODORIANI to make it look really as if Modiliani had 237 00:15:45,596 --> 00:15:48,556 Speaker 7: done it in some Paris cafe. I then took the 238 00:15:48,596 --> 00:15:51,556 Speaker 7: three drawings to the Museum of Modern Art. The museum 239 00:15:51,996 --> 00:15:55,516 Speaker 7: examined them for two hours and came back with the 240 00:15:55,636 --> 00:15:58,516 Speaker 7: verdict that they were absolutely genuine, and in fact were 241 00:15:58,516 --> 00:16:00,476 Speaker 7: horrified that I wanted to sell them. 242 00:16:00,996 --> 00:16:05,596 Speaker 2: Two Matisis and a Medigliani painted before lunch by elmir 243 00:16:05,716 --> 00:16:11,796 Speaker 2: Dehoy and verified by the Museum of Modern Art. The 244 00:16:11,836 --> 00:16:14,916 Speaker 2: point is Clifford Irving did not have good role models. 245 00:16:15,436 --> 00:16:17,996 Speaker 2: He was surrounded by people who got away with making 246 00:16:18,036 --> 00:16:22,156 Speaker 2: things up. So one day he gets together with one 247 00:16:22,196 --> 00:16:25,396 Speaker 2: of his best friends, a writer named Dick Suskind, and 248 00:16:25,476 --> 00:16:29,276 Speaker 2: he says, hey, Dick, why don't we try this forgery 249 00:16:29,316 --> 00:16:34,116 Speaker 2: thing for ourselves. Let's forge an autobiography of the most 250 00:16:34,116 --> 00:16:35,276 Speaker 2: famous man in the world. 251 00:16:36,116 --> 00:16:37,516 Speaker 1: Why in f how did you choose Hughes. 252 00:16:38,356 --> 00:16:40,476 Speaker 6: He was there, like Mount Everest to be climbed. He 253 00:16:40,476 --> 00:16:43,236 Speaker 6: was inaccessible, and no one had interviewed him in the 254 00:16:43,316 --> 00:16:47,436 Speaker 6: last twenty years, and he could not step forward in public, 255 00:16:48,196 --> 00:16:52,276 Speaker 6: in court or in person to the media or anybody 256 00:16:52,316 --> 00:16:52,916 Speaker 6: to deny it. 257 00:16:53,516 --> 00:16:57,356 Speaker 2: Irving's gamble was that Hughes wouldn't say anything. The man was, 258 00:16:57,396 --> 00:17:00,396 Speaker 2: after all, a complete reckless and if he did write 259 00:17:00,436 --> 00:17:04,076 Speaker 2: an angry denial, no one would believe him. Irving could 260 00:17:04,116 --> 00:17:07,916 Speaker 2: simply say, that's not really Hughes, that's an impostor. And 261 00:17:07,956 --> 00:17:10,836 Speaker 2: who would know. When I said that Hughes was like 262 00:17:10,916 --> 00:17:14,036 Speaker 2: the loch Ness Monster, I meant it. There was a 263 00:17:14,036 --> 00:17:18,276 Speaker 2: constant swirl of tabloid gossip and innuendo and speculation about him, 264 00:17:18,676 --> 00:17:20,836 Speaker 2: and no one knew what was true or what was 265 00:17:20,876 --> 00:17:25,956 Speaker 2: made up. Worst case scenario, Hughes does come forward and 266 00:17:26,036 --> 00:17:29,876 Speaker 2: denounces the autobiography and convinces everyone that he is in 267 00:17:29,916 --> 00:17:33,116 Speaker 2: fact Howard Hughes. But then Irving figures it's still okay. 268 00:17:33,676 --> 00:17:40,876 Speaker 2: He can say I was duped. Irving tells his publisher 269 00:17:41,276 --> 00:17:44,636 Speaker 2: that Hughes has strict conditions for co operating on the book. 270 00:17:45,476 --> 00:17:50,476 Speaker 2: One condition is it only he Irving connectes gobtuim. Irving 271 00:17:50,716 --> 00:17:53,916 Speaker 2: will handle the money. Then he tells mc graw hill 272 00:17:54,116 --> 00:17:56,636 Speaker 2: to make out the seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars 273 00:17:56,636 --> 00:18:02,676 Speaker 2: advance to h R. Hughes initials only crucial detail because 274 00:18:02,676 --> 00:18:05,436 Speaker 2: once he has the check, Irving then takes one of 275 00:18:05,476 --> 00:18:09,516 Speaker 2: his wife's old passports. She's Swiss, and he forged a 276 00:18:09,556 --> 00:18:14,236 Speaker 2: new name in it, Helga Bernade Hughes and has her 277 00:18:14,356 --> 00:18:17,476 Speaker 2: used that fake passport to open a Swiss bank account 278 00:18:17,596 --> 00:18:21,476 Speaker 2: in the name of H. R. Hughes, and just like 279 00:18:21,516 --> 00:18:27,796 Speaker 2: that they're rich. It's so brilliant he could easily have 280 00:18:27,836 --> 00:18:28,676 Speaker 2: gotten away with it. 281 00:18:30,116 --> 00:18:32,996 Speaker 1: How do you set about writing a book inventing the story? 282 00:18:33,396 --> 00:18:35,796 Speaker 6: Well, my collaborator, Dik Sessket, and I did an awful 283 00:18:35,836 --> 00:18:38,556 Speaker 6: lot of hard research. We traveled back and forth across 284 00:18:38,556 --> 00:18:42,516 Speaker 6: the United States and wherever we could through libraries, newspaper 285 00:18:42,556 --> 00:18:46,356 Speaker 6: files to get information on Hughes. We amassed a huge 286 00:18:46,356 --> 00:18:48,636 Speaker 6: amount of data, and we had access to Time Life 287 00:18:48,756 --> 00:18:50,676 Speaker 6: Secret files, which were excellent. 288 00:18:51,196 --> 00:18:54,636 Speaker 2: What they're interested in most is Hughes's speech patterns, his 289 00:18:54,716 --> 00:18:58,716 Speaker 2: expressions and inflections. The book was written as one long 290 00:18:58,756 --> 00:19:02,076 Speaker 2: conversation between Irving and Hughes, so they wanted their fake 291 00:19:02,196 --> 00:19:05,356 Speaker 2: Q and A with Hughes to feel real, particularly to 292 00:19:05,396 --> 00:19:08,476 Speaker 2: those who had years ago met the real Hughes and 293 00:19:08,556 --> 00:19:11,476 Speaker 2: knew how he talked. Irving would come up with a 294 00:19:11,516 --> 00:19:16,116 Speaker 2: story about how Hughes had summoned him palm Springs the Bahamas. 295 00:19:16,596 --> 00:19:20,196 Speaker 2: Then he and Dick Suskan would fly there, check into 296 00:19:20,236 --> 00:19:24,636 Speaker 2: a hotel, generate receipts, go through all the motions in 297 00:19:24,716 --> 00:19:28,076 Speaker 2: order to have the most perfect cover story, and then 298 00:19:28,396 --> 00:19:31,556 Speaker 2: hang out in their hotel room and actually conduct the 299 00:19:31,676 --> 00:19:33,156 Speaker 2: quote unquote interview. 300 00:19:33,676 --> 00:19:34,996 Speaker 1: I mean, what do you do? Sit down and talk 301 00:19:35,036 --> 00:19:35,396 Speaker 1: to each other. 302 00:19:35,556 --> 00:19:37,676 Speaker 6: Just sat down, put a tape recorder going. I said, 303 00:19:37,716 --> 00:19:40,276 Speaker 6: I've got to hang over today, Ub Howard, I'll be Clifford. 304 00:19:40,996 --> 00:19:44,236 Speaker 6: And after a while, when that turnstile, we'd switch rolls. 305 00:19:44,356 --> 00:19:47,756 Speaker 6: And then we edited the tapes, erased them because we 306 00:19:47,796 --> 00:19:49,836 Speaker 6: didn't want them to fall in the hands of anybody else. 307 00:19:51,036 --> 00:19:54,956 Speaker 6: And then after it was all typed and transcribed, we 308 00:19:55,116 --> 00:19:56,796 Speaker 6: edited it to make it even more interesting. 309 00:19:57,596 --> 00:20:03,516 Speaker 2: And the result fools everyone everyone. His publishers at mcgrahill 310 00:20:03,596 --> 00:20:06,676 Speaker 2: read the manuscript, go over it with a fine toothcomb, 311 00:20:07,036 --> 00:20:10,476 Speaker 2: give it to their lawyers, show it to Scout Irving 312 00:20:10,636 --> 00:20:13,836 Speaker 2: Forge's letters that are supposed to be from Hughes. Mcgrohill 313 00:20:13,996 --> 00:20:19,476 Speaker 2: asks handwriting experts to verify their authenticity. They do. People 314 00:20:19,516 --> 00:20:23,116 Speaker 2: who read the manuscript who know Hughes come away saying, 315 00:20:23,356 --> 00:20:26,596 Speaker 2: this is Howard. It could only be Howard. It's Howard's voice, 316 00:20:26,636 --> 00:20:29,836 Speaker 2: his phrases, his way of thinking. Only a handful of 317 00:20:29,836 --> 00:20:33,676 Speaker 2: people expressed any doubts, like Mike Wallace of sixty Minutes, 318 00:20:33,836 --> 00:20:38,756 Speaker 2: famously the toughest, most skeptical, most unrelenting journalist in America. 319 00:20:39,356 --> 00:20:42,876 Speaker 1: Were there any witnesses to your meetings with Howard Hughes 320 00:20:43,796 --> 00:20:45,236 Speaker 1: any other human beings? 321 00:20:45,316 --> 00:20:45,516 Speaker 7: Yes? 322 00:20:45,556 --> 00:20:45,836 Speaker 4: There were? 323 00:20:45,956 --> 00:20:50,196 Speaker 6: Who a researcher my name, A man named Richard Suskin. 324 00:20:50,756 --> 00:20:54,996 Speaker 2: Irving says, Dick Suskan Mike collaborator, and then he adds 325 00:20:55,356 --> 00:20:57,596 Speaker 2: a little perfect whimsical touch. 326 00:20:57,956 --> 00:21:00,596 Speaker 6: And how accidentally happened to be sitting with me in 327 00:21:00,636 --> 00:21:05,356 Speaker 6: a room when Hughes arrived too early. Suskand stood there. 328 00:21:05,516 --> 00:21:09,556 Speaker 6: Hughes stood there, I stood there, and finally I said, well, 329 00:21:09,836 --> 00:21:13,476 Speaker 6: this is Dick Suskin, who's doing some research for me 330 00:21:13,556 --> 00:21:17,876 Speaker 6: on a project. And Hughes said, I suppose you know 331 00:21:17,916 --> 00:21:23,116 Speaker 6: who I am? Suskan. Unfortunately, instead of taking that opportunity 332 00:21:23,116 --> 00:21:25,396 Speaker 6: to slip out of the room, said yes I do, 333 00:21:25,556 --> 00:21:27,236 Speaker 6: mister Hughes, how do you do? He started a stick 334 00:21:27,276 --> 00:21:29,636 Speaker 6: out his hand and withdrew it instantly, because Hughes is 335 00:21:29,676 --> 00:21:35,916 Speaker 6: not very keen on shaking hands, and then, after another 336 00:21:35,956 --> 00:21:40,836 Speaker 6: moment of awkward silence, Hughes reached into his pocket and 337 00:21:41,436 --> 00:21:44,276 Speaker 6: pulled out a bag. We still disagree. I say it 338 00:21:44,316 --> 00:21:47,076 Speaker 6: was a cellophane bag. Suskan says it was a paper bag. 339 00:21:47,796 --> 00:21:51,436 Speaker 6: And he said to Dick Suskin to have a prune. 340 00:21:52,716 --> 00:21:55,556 Speaker 2: Hughes carries a bag of prunes in his pocket, of 341 00:21:55,556 --> 00:21:58,956 Speaker 2: course he does. Irving tells the story to Mike Wallace 342 00:21:58,996 --> 00:22:01,836 Speaker 2: as they sit in overstuffed armchairs in front of a fireplace. 343 00:22:02,716 --> 00:22:06,236 Speaker 2: Wallace then turns to the audience and concludes. 344 00:22:06,676 --> 00:22:09,276 Speaker 1: Is the autobiography genuine? 345 00:22:09,476 --> 00:22:09,596 Speaker 7: Well? 346 00:22:09,636 --> 00:22:11,876 Speaker 8: I can only say that it is laced with detail 347 00:22:11,956 --> 00:22:14,276 Speaker 8: that one would think that only Howard Hughes could know. 348 00:22:15,156 --> 00:22:21,156 Speaker 2: Mike Wallace can't shake Irving's story. Irving's that good. Now, 349 00:22:21,236 --> 00:22:23,436 Speaker 2: if you detect a certain affection in my voice for 350 00:22:23,436 --> 00:22:26,796 Speaker 2: Clifford Irving, you won't be wrong. I mean, the whole 351 00:22:26,796 --> 00:22:30,196 Speaker 2: thing is just so audacious. He's pranking the whole literary world, 352 00:22:30,356 --> 00:22:33,076 Speaker 2: plus one of the world's richest men. The stuffed shirts 353 00:22:33,076 --> 00:22:36,356 Speaker 2: at sixty minutes, the Swiss banking system, on and on. 354 00:22:36,876 --> 00:22:40,556 Speaker 2: This is the irresistible temptation with the Irving hoax to 355 00:22:40,596 --> 00:22:43,636 Speaker 2: get caught up in the wild genius of Clifford Irving. 356 00:22:44,876 --> 00:22:48,716 Speaker 2: But like I said, this episode isn't about Clifford Irving, 357 00:22:49,076 --> 00:23:02,036 Speaker 2: It's about Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes was born outside of 358 00:23:02,076 --> 00:23:05,196 Speaker 2: Houston in nineteen oh five. His father was in the 359 00:23:05,196 --> 00:23:08,076 Speaker 2: oil business and made a fortune by inventing a new 360 00:23:08,156 --> 00:23:11,516 Speaker 2: drill bit for oil ill wells. Hughes's mother died when 361 00:23:11,556 --> 00:23:14,476 Speaker 2: he was sixteen and his father died when he was eighteen, 362 00:23:14,996 --> 00:23:20,676 Speaker 2: turning Hughes into one of the wealthiest orphans in America. 363 00:23:19,396 --> 00:23:23,036 Speaker 8: Making news then as now millionaire sportsman and industrialist. Howard 364 00:23:23,116 --> 00:23:26,396 Speaker 8: Hughes unveiled his new mystery plane in Los Angeles, Racer, 365 00:23:26,476 --> 00:23:29,796 Speaker 8: most of a thousand horse power motorold outstrip any plane 366 00:23:29,796 --> 00:23:33,356 Speaker 8: ever built in America. 367 00:23:33,396 --> 00:23:37,316 Speaker 2: Almost immediately, Howard Hughes moved to Los Angeles, and there 368 00:23:37,356 --> 00:23:41,876 Speaker 2: he took up the three great passions of his life airplanes, movies, 369 00:23:42,276 --> 00:23:46,276 Speaker 2: and women. He founded an aviation company, he bought a 370 00:23:46,316 --> 00:23:52,276 Speaker 2: movie studio Rko Pictures, and he pursued beautiful actresses obsessively 371 00:23:52,636 --> 00:23:58,796 Speaker 2: and compulsively. How much genuine charm and chrismon does he 372 00:23:58,916 --> 00:24:02,356 Speaker 2: have and how much is it simply a transaction on 373 00:24:02,516 --> 00:24:04,836 Speaker 2: both sides of the of the relationship. 374 00:24:05,036 --> 00:24:06,636 Speaker 9: I think it depended on the woman. 375 00:24:07,156 --> 00:24:10,956 Speaker 2: I'm talking with. Kareeina Longworth, author of the most fascinating 376 00:24:10,956 --> 00:24:13,796 Speaker 2: of the Howard Hughes biographies, of which there are many. 377 00:24:14,236 --> 00:24:18,276 Speaker 2: Hers is called Seduction, Sex, Lies, and Stardom in Howard 378 00:24:18,316 --> 00:24:19,676 Speaker 2: Hughes's Hollywood. 379 00:24:19,756 --> 00:24:25,116 Speaker 9: And certainly I think later there was very little true 380 00:24:25,196 --> 00:24:29,276 Speaker 9: feeling in these relationships. But Billy Dove, the silent film actress, 381 00:24:29,316 --> 00:24:32,916 Speaker 9: who was his first major girlfriend in Hollywood, she reported 382 00:24:32,956 --> 00:24:36,076 Speaker 9: feeling like they were really in love. Katherine Hepburn and 383 00:24:36,116 --> 00:24:39,476 Speaker 9: her memoirs paints a picture of them being really in love, 384 00:24:40,556 --> 00:24:45,276 Speaker 9: which I've chosen to believe, even though there has been 385 00:24:45,316 --> 00:24:48,396 Speaker 9: some skepticism about Katherine Hepburn in terms of her relationships 386 00:24:48,396 --> 00:24:49,516 Speaker 9: with men, just. 387 00:24:49,476 --> 00:24:53,076 Speaker 2: Seems to be just on reading your book. Deterioration and 388 00:24:53,116 --> 00:24:55,996 Speaker 2: the quality of his relationships over time. 389 00:24:56,796 --> 00:24:59,556 Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, I do think he got the part 390 00:24:59,596 --> 00:25:02,836 Speaker 9: of his personality that was more of a collector started 391 00:25:02,836 --> 00:25:06,596 Speaker 9: to take over, and so it became less about being 392 00:25:06,636 --> 00:25:10,396 Speaker 9: associated with one woman, one usual, one very famous woman, 393 00:25:10,956 --> 00:25:14,036 Speaker 9: and more about making sure his bases were covered so 394 00:25:14,076 --> 00:25:16,236 Speaker 9: that if he lost one, he'd have three more. 395 00:25:18,636 --> 00:25:22,236 Speaker 2: Ostensibly, Hughes was looking for actresses to star in movies, 396 00:25:22,716 --> 00:25:25,956 Speaker 2: but his studio really didn't make that many movies, and 397 00:25:26,036 --> 00:25:29,756 Speaker 2: after he sold his studio, he still kept collecting young actresses. 398 00:25:30,396 --> 00:25:34,316 Speaker 2: He would stash them around Los Angeles in houses and apartments, 399 00:25:34,356 --> 00:25:39,756 Speaker 2: each with their own minder. Longwerre says that sometimes people 400 00:25:39,796 --> 00:25:43,516 Speaker 2: compare Hughes to Harvey Weinstein, but to her, that's an 401 00:25:43,556 --> 00:25:50,316 Speaker 2: inexact comparison. Hughes wasn't a predator. He's something else. You 402 00:25:50,356 --> 00:25:53,916 Speaker 2: talk about how there were so many of these starlets 403 00:25:53,996 --> 00:25:56,836 Speaker 2: under escort who would go out. They would go out 404 00:25:56,836 --> 00:25:59,236 Speaker 2: to restaurants, and they would be the restaurant, the fancy 405 00:25:59,276 --> 00:26:03,596 Speaker 2: restaurant in wherever. Beverly Hills would be full of tables 406 00:26:03,636 --> 00:26:09,356 Speaker 2: made up of his various starlets with there. He's like crazy, yeah. 407 00:26:09,156 --> 00:26:11,716 Speaker 9: Yeah, And they were always being escorted by the chauffeur 408 00:26:11,836 --> 00:26:14,436 Speaker 9: or whoever he had sort of assigned to look after them. 409 00:26:14,596 --> 00:26:16,836 Speaker 9: None of them were there with Hughes, I think. I mean, 410 00:26:16,836 --> 00:26:18,556 Speaker 9: this was at a point where he wasn't really going 411 00:26:18,596 --> 00:26:21,076 Speaker 9: out to dinner much at all, and a lot of 412 00:26:21,076 --> 00:26:24,036 Speaker 9: these women who were under contract to him never met him, 413 00:26:24,116 --> 00:26:27,276 Speaker 9: never saw him. They were just sort of in the stable, 414 00:26:27,956 --> 00:26:31,476 Speaker 9: you know, if he perchance decided at one point to 415 00:26:31,516 --> 00:26:34,756 Speaker 9: put them to pay them a visit, and they all 416 00:26:34,796 --> 00:26:36,716 Speaker 9: thought that they were going to be in movies, but 417 00:26:36,756 --> 00:26:39,636 Speaker 9: by that point he had not made movies in years. 418 00:26:42,556 --> 00:26:45,356 Speaker 2: Hughes was deeply weird in other ways too. He was 419 00:26:45,396 --> 00:26:49,276 Speaker 2: a germophobe. He was emotionally arrested. He once proposed to 420 00:26:49,316 --> 00:26:52,396 Speaker 2: the actress Faith Demeeric by saying, I love you, Faith, 421 00:26:52,596 --> 00:26:54,996 Speaker 2: I want to marry you. You're the child I should 422 00:26:54,996 --> 00:26:58,316 Speaker 2: have had. Another time, he puts his head in the 423 00:26:58,356 --> 00:27:01,316 Speaker 2: lap of the mother of the actress he's dating, starts 424 00:27:01,356 --> 00:27:05,236 Speaker 2: crying and says, Helen has you. I don't have anybody. 425 00:27:05,436 --> 00:27:08,796 Speaker 2: I'm an orphan. And then there's this story from the 426 00:27:08,836 --> 00:27:10,116 Speaker 2: actor christ Genant Lee. 427 00:27:10,676 --> 00:27:13,116 Speaker 10: All I know is that when I would if you 428 00:27:13,156 --> 00:27:15,116 Speaker 10: and I had a date, right and we went out 429 00:27:15,156 --> 00:27:18,876 Speaker 10: to dinner, suddenly there would be a third place there 430 00:27:18,876 --> 00:27:20,276 Speaker 10: and Howard's Hughes would show up. 431 00:27:20,436 --> 00:27:21,596 Speaker 1: I see, I see. 432 00:27:22,236 --> 00:27:25,236 Speaker 2: Lee was once one of Hollywood's biggest stars, which meant 433 00:27:25,436 --> 00:27:28,676 Speaker 2: naturally that she was pursued by Hughes. She talked about 434 00:27:28,676 --> 00:27:30,276 Speaker 2: it later with the journalist Skip. 435 00:27:30,036 --> 00:27:34,076 Speaker 10: Low and you know, all of a sudden, I go 436 00:27:34,276 --> 00:27:37,556 Speaker 10: on a date with a with a with a gentleman, 437 00:27:37,596 --> 00:27:40,076 Speaker 10: and we're supposed to go sailing, and we end up 438 00:27:40,116 --> 00:27:44,516 Speaker 10: on his plane in Grand Canyon and then Las Vegas, 439 00:27:44,556 --> 00:27:46,796 Speaker 10: and I, you know, I thought the nightmare would never end. 440 00:27:47,156 --> 00:27:49,996 Speaker 10: He drove me crazy, And finally, at one time, I said, 441 00:27:50,276 --> 00:27:54,436 Speaker 10: for god sakes, why why do you manipulate that? 442 00:27:54,836 --> 00:27:55,516 Speaker 5: I hated that. 443 00:27:55,716 --> 00:27:57,876 Speaker 11: Yes, you know, I said, if you want. 444 00:27:57,716 --> 00:28:00,356 Speaker 10: To ask me out, ask me out like a man, 445 00:28:00,556 --> 00:28:04,836 Speaker 10: don't sit there and arranged like you know. And he said, 446 00:28:05,196 --> 00:28:06,956 Speaker 10: all right, will you go out with me? 447 00:28:06,996 --> 00:28:11,756 Speaker 8: And I said, no, mister Hughes, There's something else I 448 00:28:11,796 --> 00:28:13,876 Speaker 8: think a great many people would like to know about. 449 00:28:14,196 --> 00:28:14,796 Speaker 4: There have been some. 450 00:28:14,916 --> 00:28:17,756 Speaker 1: Very absurd descriptions of your physical appearance. 451 00:28:18,476 --> 00:28:20,836 Speaker 2: Even in the press conference that Hughes gives in nineteen 452 00:28:20,876 --> 00:28:24,636 Speaker 2: seventy two, where he's just there to denounce irving, the 453 00:28:24,676 --> 00:28:29,476 Speaker 2: matter of his weirdness keeps coming up, like his fingernails. 454 00:28:30,196 --> 00:28:33,556 Speaker 2: A former Hughes associate had once told the press that 455 00:28:33,636 --> 00:28:36,196 Speaker 2: Hughes never cut his fingernails, that they had grown to 456 00:28:36,236 --> 00:28:41,036 Speaker 2: six inches long. Hughes responds to this allegation in two parts, 457 00:28:41,676 --> 00:28:44,316 Speaker 2: to be merciful. I'm only going to play you part two. 458 00:28:45,316 --> 00:28:49,636 Speaker 5: I not ever have manicures. I do it myself. I 459 00:28:49,956 --> 00:28:53,916 Speaker 5: never have had manicures. I don't know. Maybe it is 460 00:28:53,996 --> 00:28:57,316 Speaker 5: an outdroves of my child ed when he has to 461 00:28:57,356 --> 00:29:02,716 Speaker 5: teach people about having that is, males about having manicures. 462 00:29:02,756 --> 00:29:07,196 Speaker 5: I never had them ever. But I've always kept my 463 00:29:07,236 --> 00:29:11,796 Speaker 5: finger nails a reasonable length. Uh. I thought them with clippers, 464 00:29:11,876 --> 00:29:14,916 Speaker 5: not with uh scissors and nail file the way some 465 00:29:15,036 --> 00:29:19,276 Speaker 5: people do. I use clippers because they don't leave her up. 466 00:29:19,436 --> 00:29:23,956 Speaker 5: Uh it's afterwards anyway. I take care of them the 467 00:29:23,996 --> 00:29:24,876 Speaker 5: same I always have. 468 00:29:26,276 --> 00:29:28,916 Speaker 2: And then someone asked him if he's happy, and Hughes 469 00:29:29,036 --> 00:29:29,876 Speaker 2: starts up again. 470 00:29:31,076 --> 00:29:33,876 Speaker 5: I'm not. I'm not very happy, I'll tell you that. 471 00:29:34,796 --> 00:29:39,196 Speaker 5: And one of the primary reasons is because of some 472 00:29:39,276 --> 00:29:42,396 Speaker 5: of the things we've been discussing here uh tonight. That 473 00:29:42,596 --> 00:29:46,756 Speaker 5: is to say, in other words, the the impediment impediments 474 00:29:46,836 --> 00:29:53,796 Speaker 5: upon my freedom and uh uh activities imposed by Honorius 475 00:29:53,876 --> 00:30:01,076 Speaker 5: litigation and uh these overhanging uh threats of uh various 476 00:30:01,156 --> 00:30:05,876 Speaker 5: types uh this uh threatened autobiography and so forth. All 477 00:30:05,916 --> 00:30:13,876 Speaker 5: these matters are very draining in their hypoppy of the 478 00:30:16,516 --> 00:30:19,836 Speaker 5: if you, Uh, well, your question were Am I happy? 479 00:30:19,996 --> 00:30:30,716 Speaker 2: And and no, there's something tragic about Hughes orphaned, lonely, compulsive, damaged. 480 00:30:33,076 --> 00:30:36,276 Speaker 2: Do you think that he had a kind of was 481 00:30:36,276 --> 00:30:39,236 Speaker 2: suffering from mental some kind of mental illness throughout his life? 482 00:30:39,236 --> 00:30:42,116 Speaker 2: And what's your sort of broader explanation of some of 483 00:30:42,156 --> 00:30:43,516 Speaker 2: his behavior. 484 00:30:44,156 --> 00:30:46,556 Speaker 9: So I'm not a medical doctor, and so I can 485 00:30:46,716 --> 00:30:49,636 Speaker 9: you know only only state my opinion based on what 486 00:30:49,636 --> 00:30:53,996 Speaker 9: I've read. I think that he exhibited signs of obsessive 487 00:30:54,036 --> 00:30:58,076 Speaker 9: compulsive disorder over the course of his whole life. But 488 00:30:58,316 --> 00:31:01,716 Speaker 9: I think that the bigger factor in what we could 489 00:31:01,716 --> 00:31:05,996 Speaker 9: call the deterioration of his personality and his mental state 490 00:31:06,516 --> 00:31:07,996 Speaker 9: seems to be the head injuries. 491 00:31:09,276 --> 00:31:13,916 Speaker 2: Hughes survived multiple plane crashes, including one where he crashed 492 00:31:13,916 --> 00:31:16,556 Speaker 2: into a house in Beverly Hills and nearly died. 493 00:31:17,716 --> 00:31:21,036 Speaker 9: And I think, especially what we know now about head injuries, 494 00:31:21,116 --> 00:31:23,876 Speaker 9: based on what we've learned from football and other sources, 495 00:31:24,236 --> 00:31:27,316 Speaker 9: we can really see the impact of these things in 496 00:31:27,316 --> 00:31:29,636 Speaker 9: a way that it wasn't understood during his lifetime. 497 00:31:31,076 --> 00:31:34,356 Speaker 8: Howard Hughes, famous player and sportsman, was dragged out of 498 00:31:34,396 --> 00:31:37,396 Speaker 8: this wreckage of an experimental plane he was testing. He 499 00:31:37,476 --> 00:31:42,316 Speaker 8: was seriously injuring America's aviation trail. Basers willingly pay the 500 00:31:42,396 --> 00:31:44,876 Speaker 8: price in Man's conquest of the air. 501 00:31:49,556 --> 00:31:53,196 Speaker 2: But as weird and damaged as Hughes was, he didn't 502 00:31:53,236 --> 00:31:56,596 Speaker 2: want to be seen as weird and damaged. He wanted 503 00:31:56,636 --> 00:32:01,036 Speaker 2: to be seen as heroic, swashbuckling, a brilliant entrepreneur, And 504 00:32:01,076 --> 00:32:03,956 Speaker 2: from the moment he arrived in Hollywood, he took great 505 00:32:03,996 --> 00:32:07,996 Speaker 2: pains to create that mythical version of himself. He put 506 00:32:08,036 --> 00:32:12,516 Speaker 2: together a massive publicity operation. In the Hughes archives at 507 00:32:12,516 --> 00:32:17,116 Speaker 2: the University of Las Vegas, which incidentally aren't actually his archives, 508 00:32:17,516 --> 00:32:20,996 Speaker 2: but the archives of his PR firm, there's a transcript 509 00:32:21,036 --> 00:32:24,316 Speaker 2: of a conversation between Hughes and a magazine writer. The 510 00:32:24,356 --> 00:32:26,916 Speaker 2: writer is working on a story about him, and Hughes 511 00:32:27,036 --> 00:32:31,036 Speaker 2: is basically going through the draft line by line, dictating 512 00:32:31,036 --> 00:32:34,276 Speaker 2: what should and shouldn't be said. He's one of the 513 00:32:34,396 --> 00:32:36,836 Speaker 2: richest men in the world, and he's line editing some 514 00:32:37,036 --> 00:32:41,956 Speaker 2: pushmuck's copy. When he first gets to Hollywood and successfully 515 00:32:41,956 --> 00:32:44,956 Speaker 2: builds this PR machine to put this image out there, 516 00:32:45,196 --> 00:32:50,036 Speaker 2: what is the Is it possible to kind of describe 517 00:32:50,076 --> 00:32:53,916 Speaker 2: precisely the image he is trying to create for himself. 518 00:32:54,116 --> 00:32:56,436 Speaker 9: Well, I think this is actually somewhere where a comparison 519 00:32:56,476 --> 00:32:58,916 Speaker 9: to Trump is useful, because you know, what does Trump 520 00:32:58,996 --> 00:33:01,036 Speaker 9: want us to know about him or to think about him. 521 00:33:01,036 --> 00:33:04,876 Speaker 9: That he's rich, that he's a ladies man, that he 522 00:33:05,316 --> 00:33:08,316 Speaker 9: lives in a golden castle. And these are very similar 523 00:33:08,356 --> 00:33:11,156 Speaker 9: things to to what Hughes wanted out there. You know, 524 00:33:11,196 --> 00:33:12,956 Speaker 9: he wanted people to think that he was the richest 525 00:33:12,956 --> 00:33:15,556 Speaker 9: man in America, if not the world, that he was 526 00:33:15,956 --> 00:33:18,636 Speaker 9: a lady's man who could have any woman that he wanted, 527 00:33:19,156 --> 00:33:21,996 Speaker 9: when in fact, you know, he did have wealth, but 528 00:33:22,116 --> 00:33:25,676 Speaker 9: he his wealth was entirely dependent on his father's tool company, 529 00:33:26,196 --> 00:33:30,036 Speaker 9: which he kind of helped run into some financial straits 530 00:33:31,396 --> 00:33:33,836 Speaker 9: and which they were really only saved because of World 531 00:33:33,876 --> 00:33:36,716 Speaker 9: War Two when they became defense contractors. And then in 532 00:33:36,796 --> 00:33:39,516 Speaker 9: terms of women, he certainly dated a lot of women, 533 00:33:39,596 --> 00:33:42,996 Speaker 9: but they report that he was awkward and not a 534 00:33:43,076 --> 00:33:46,756 Speaker 9: ladies man, not suave. From the very very early on, 535 00:33:46,996 --> 00:33:50,076 Speaker 9: he was having you know, sort of private detectives follow 536 00:33:50,116 --> 00:33:53,196 Speaker 9: women around and and he would use sort of go 537 00:33:53,356 --> 00:33:56,396 Speaker 9: betweens to do the flirtation so that he wouldn't have 538 00:33:56,436 --> 00:34:00,276 Speaker 9: to bother with it, so yeah, but he didn't want 539 00:34:00,276 --> 00:34:03,276 Speaker 9: any of that out there. He wanted just this image 540 00:34:03,316 --> 00:34:05,716 Speaker 9: of him, you know, at the coconut grove with Ginger 541 00:34:05,796 --> 00:34:07,676 Speaker 9: Rogers or whoever it was out there. 542 00:34:08,436 --> 00:34:12,436 Speaker 2: Hughes is myth making works to perfection for years, and 543 00:34:12,476 --> 00:34:16,396 Speaker 2: then after the war, the machinery starts to falter. The 544 00:34:16,436 --> 00:34:19,316 Speaker 2: world begins to see little glimpses of a very different 545 00:34:19,356 --> 00:34:24,796 Speaker 2: Howard Hughes, and so he retreats, almost in embarrassment and shame. 546 00:34:25,636 --> 00:34:30,116 Speaker 2: And just as that retreat seems permanent, a minor novelist 547 00:34:30,156 --> 00:34:34,476 Speaker 2: from Abiza named Clifford Irving decides to write a fake 548 00:34:34,596 --> 00:34:38,556 Speaker 2: autobiography of Howard Hughes, to do, in a sense, the 549 00:34:38,676 --> 00:34:40,956 Speaker 2: very thing that Hughes himself has been trying to do 550 00:34:41,036 --> 00:34:43,836 Speaker 2: for most of his life, create a new version of 551 00:34:43,876 --> 00:34:48,876 Speaker 2: Howard Hughes out of whole cloth. Clifford Irving does a 552 00:34:48,956 --> 00:34:57,436 Speaker 2: Howard Hughes on Howard Hughes. The genius of the autobiography 553 00:34:57,436 --> 00:35:02,796 Speaker 2: of Howard Hughes is that everything checkable is true, dates, timelines, 554 00:35:03,036 --> 00:35:07,516 Speaker 2: key figures. It's a genuine biography, but mixed in amongst 555 00:35:07,556 --> 00:35:12,876 Speaker 2: the truths are small, unverifiable details that are entirely imaginary, 556 00:35:13,476 --> 00:35:16,076 Speaker 2: and it is not easy, at least at first, to 557 00:35:16,116 --> 00:35:21,996 Speaker 2: tell which is which, such as Hughes on the set 558 00:35:22,116 --> 00:35:26,556 Speaker 2: of The Outlaw personally designing a special brazier to maximize 559 00:35:26,596 --> 00:35:30,916 Speaker 2: the ample endowments of Jane Russell. That's actually true, but 560 00:35:30,996 --> 00:35:34,516 Speaker 2: Irving throws in a memo written by Hughes, stipulating in 561 00:35:34,596 --> 00:35:38,676 Speaker 2: highly technical engineer's language just how the bespoke Jane Russell 562 00:35:38,716 --> 00:35:42,636 Speaker 2: brazier was to be constructed. I don't know whether that's true, 563 00:35:43,276 --> 00:35:51,076 Speaker 2: could be who knows. Or that there was once a 564 00:35:51,156 --> 00:35:55,436 Speaker 2: ticker tape braid down Broadway in Hughes's honor totally true, 565 00:35:55,516 --> 00:35:58,116 Speaker 2: but Irving's book adds that Hughes ducked out of the 566 00:35:58,116 --> 00:36:01,196 Speaker 2: parade early and jumped in a cab uptown in order 567 00:36:01,236 --> 00:36:06,796 Speaker 2: to have sex with Catherine Hepburn. Don't think that's true, 568 00:36:06,996 --> 00:36:10,196 Speaker 2: But then again, Hughes actually was kind of shy, self 569 00:36:10,236 --> 00:36:12,916 Speaker 2: absorbed type who would think nothing of ducking out early 570 00:36:12,956 --> 00:36:16,116 Speaker 2: on a ticker tape parade in his honor, particularly where 571 00:36:16,196 --> 00:36:21,116 Speaker 2: Katherine Hepburn was involved. About one hundred pages into the 572 00:36:21,156 --> 00:36:25,956 Speaker 2: Autobiography of Howard Hughes, I figured it out. Here's how 573 00:36:25,996 --> 00:36:31,876 Speaker 2: to untangle fact from fiction. In Irving's book, Hughes was 574 00:36:31,916 --> 00:36:34,476 Speaker 2: so creepy and strange that if you run across any 575 00:36:34,476 --> 00:36:37,596 Speaker 2: detail that makes Hughes out not to be creepy and strange, 576 00:36:38,276 --> 00:36:42,716 Speaker 2: then Irving and Suskand probably made it up. In real life, 577 00:36:43,036 --> 00:36:47,676 Speaker 2: Hughes pursued very young buxom starlet's in vast quantities and 578 00:36:47,756 --> 00:36:51,636 Speaker 2: too ill effect. But in Irving's book, Hughes has a 579 00:36:51,636 --> 00:36:56,236 Speaker 2: real adult relationship, a true love, a sophisticated woman named 580 00:36:56,276 --> 00:37:00,076 Speaker 2: Helga trapped in an unhappy marriage with a diplomat. Helga 581 00:37:00,196 --> 00:37:04,556 Speaker 2: is neither young, nor buxom nor starlet. Hughes happens to 582 00:37:04,596 --> 00:37:06,876 Speaker 2: sit next to her on a flight from San Francisco 583 00:37:06,996 --> 00:37:11,316 Speaker 2: to New York, exchanges a few magical charged words with her, 584 00:37:12,036 --> 00:37:18,636 Speaker 2: then fall asleep. Let us return to our fictional Howard 585 00:37:18,716 --> 00:37:22,916 Speaker 2: Hughes to hear from the fictional autobiography of Howard Hughes. 586 00:37:24,036 --> 00:37:27,556 Speaker 11: After dark, I fell into a kind of doze, and 587 00:37:27,796 --> 00:37:31,356 Speaker 11: I swear I don't know how this happened, But when 588 00:37:31,396 --> 00:37:34,516 Speaker 11: I woke up, this woman and I were holding hands. 589 00:37:35,876 --> 00:37:41,916 Speaker 11: Isn't that incredible? We talked and one thing led to another. 590 00:37:43,156 --> 00:37:47,996 Speaker 2: This is not true. Irving made this up. Now, if 591 00:37:47,996 --> 00:37:52,156 Speaker 2: you'll remember, Clifford Irving forged his wife's Swiss passport in 592 00:37:52,196 --> 00:37:55,476 Speaker 2: the name of Helga R. Hughes so she could cash 593 00:37:55,556 --> 00:37:56,916 Speaker 2: checks made out to H. R. 594 00:37:57,076 --> 00:37:57,356 Speaker 7: Hughes. 595 00:37:58,076 --> 00:38:00,156 Speaker 2: So the Helga in the book is a kind of 596 00:38:00,156 --> 00:38:03,596 Speaker 2: insurance policy in case things go badly wrong. But that's 597 00:38:03,636 --> 00:38:06,356 Speaker 2: not the important thing here. The key fact is that, 598 00:38:06,436 --> 00:38:09,516 Speaker 2: as far as we know, Howard Hughes had exactly one 599 00:38:09,876 --> 00:38:13,876 Speaker 2: fulfilling romantic relationship in his life, and that relationship took 600 00:38:13,916 --> 00:38:18,316 Speaker 2: place in the pages of Clifford Irving's fake autobiography. Irving 601 00:38:18,356 --> 00:38:22,076 Speaker 2: gives Hughes a friend as well, another obvious invention, because 602 00:38:22,116 --> 00:38:25,996 Speaker 2: the real Hughes didn't exactly have friends. Now, if you 603 00:38:26,076 --> 00:38:28,996 Speaker 2: were Irving and Suskin sitting in the sun in Abiza 604 00:38:29,076 --> 00:38:31,156 Speaker 2: trying to come up with a perfect friend for Hughes, 605 00:38:31,556 --> 00:38:34,476 Speaker 2: who would you choose? It would have to be someone 606 00:38:34,596 --> 00:38:39,516 Speaker 2: famous and interesting, because otherwise why bother right, And also 607 00:38:39,796 --> 00:38:42,956 Speaker 2: someone dead because otherwise they just deny it, or maybe 608 00:38:42,956 --> 00:38:47,116 Speaker 2: even sue. So they pick the most dead, most famous 609 00:38:47,116 --> 00:38:51,876 Speaker 2: person they can think of, Ernest Hammingway. 610 00:38:52,676 --> 00:38:57,476 Speaker 11: The occasion arose just after the war, sometime in the 611 00:38:57,556 --> 00:39:00,516 Speaker 11: winter of nineteen forty eight. But I went out to 612 00:39:00,556 --> 00:39:03,876 Speaker 11: look over Sun Valley, Idaho, with the idea in mind 613 00:39:03,916 --> 00:39:06,916 Speaker 11: of buying it and making it into a popular resort area. 614 00:39:07,636 --> 00:39:10,556 Speaker 11: I flew out there in my bomber, a converted B 615 00:39:10,716 --> 00:39:14,956 Speaker 11: twenty five. I knew Ernest was there with his family 616 00:39:15,116 --> 00:39:18,156 Speaker 11: and he was hunting, and so I found out where 617 00:39:18,196 --> 00:39:23,836 Speaker 11: he was living. I did something wholly uncharacteristic. I marched 618 00:39:24,036 --> 00:39:27,636 Speaker 11: right up to his door, knocked on it. He opened it. 619 00:39:28,836 --> 00:39:31,956 Speaker 2: In a brilliant move, Irving has Hughes use a fake 620 00:39:32,076 --> 00:39:36,116 Speaker 2: name with Hemingway Tom Garden, so the reader understands that 621 00:39:36,156 --> 00:39:40,316 Speaker 2: Hemingway liked Hughes for who he really was, not because 622 00:39:40,356 --> 00:39:44,556 Speaker 2: of his fame and fortune. Hemingway loves Tom, and Tom 623 00:39:44,596 --> 00:39:48,876 Speaker 2: loves Hemingway calls him Hem. They talk for hours. Then 624 00:39:48,916 --> 00:39:51,196 Speaker 2: they go up in the B twenty five bomber, and 625 00:39:51,276 --> 00:39:53,916 Speaker 2: Hemingway says to him at the end, with a touch 626 00:39:53,956 --> 00:39:59,076 Speaker 2: of awe in his voice, Tom, you're a hot pilot. 627 00:39:59,636 --> 00:40:02,836 Speaker 2: Hughes goes to visit Hemingway in Cuba. They go out 628 00:40:02,836 --> 00:40:05,716 Speaker 2: on the water in Hemingway's boat, and this is maybe 629 00:40:05,756 --> 00:40:08,436 Speaker 2: my favorite passage in the whole book. Because it is 630 00:40:08,476 --> 00:40:12,636 Speaker 2: so ludic, sleep gloriously, brilliantly bananas. 631 00:40:13,916 --> 00:40:18,076 Speaker 11: After a while, Ernest said, let's go for a swim. 632 00:40:18,996 --> 00:40:23,196 Speaker 11: Bear ass Tom. I pulled off my skivvies and we 633 00:40:23,356 --> 00:40:27,356 Speaker 11: dove over the side into the gulf, which was perfectly 634 00:40:27,436 --> 00:40:32,916 Speaker 11: flat and beautifully blue. That was an extraordinary experience for 635 00:40:32,956 --> 00:40:37,036 Speaker 11: me because we were grown men. I was forty eight 636 00:40:37,116 --> 00:40:41,516 Speaker 11: years old and Ernest was somewhat older. And there we 637 00:40:41,516 --> 00:40:46,236 Speaker 11: were in the water naked, and Ernest started playing games. 638 00:40:47,276 --> 00:40:49,636 Speaker 11: He would dive under the water and come up under 639 00:40:49,676 --> 00:40:53,156 Speaker 11: me and tip me over by the ankles. One of 640 00:40:53,276 --> 00:40:55,116 Speaker 11: us had to be a shark and the other had 641 00:40:55,156 --> 00:40:58,276 Speaker 11: to be a killer well or a swordfish. And we 642 00:40:58,316 --> 00:41:05,436 Speaker 11: would fight, yell, shout, warn each other, watch out well 643 00:41:05,676 --> 00:41:13,716 Speaker 11: here I come, splash around like children, and it was marvelous. 644 00:41:16,756 --> 00:41:21,116 Speaker 6: We let our imaginations run a mark. We created a 645 00:41:21,276 --> 00:41:23,996 Speaker 6: portrait of the billionaire in search of his Soul, which 646 00:41:24,036 --> 00:41:28,116 Speaker 6: was a hell of a side more exciting, I think 647 00:41:28,116 --> 00:41:29,196 Speaker 6: than Howard Hughes his life. 648 00:41:29,236 --> 00:41:31,676 Speaker 12: I don't think a proper or straight biography of how 649 00:41:31,756 --> 00:41:33,596 Speaker 12: Hughes could ever be written good. I mean, the man 650 00:41:33,716 --> 00:41:36,756 Speaker 12: himself is a mythic creature product of press clippings and 651 00:41:36,756 --> 00:41:39,076 Speaker 12: seems to be the best biography or autobiography would simply 652 00:41:39,116 --> 00:41:39,916 Speaker 12: be the most interesting. 653 00:41:40,196 --> 00:41:43,076 Speaker 6: That's right, I believe that, and perhaps we, in our 654 00:41:43,116 --> 00:41:46,556 Speaker 6: wild imagination, got closer to what he was like in 655 00:41:46,676 --> 00:41:50,076 Speaker 6: his dreams and in his fantasies than the reality than 656 00:41:50,116 --> 00:41:50,636 Speaker 6: the himself. 657 00:41:51,156 --> 00:41:54,196 Speaker 2: Two writers got together and created a better version of 658 00:41:54,236 --> 00:41:58,356 Speaker 2: the Hughes fantasy than Hughes himself could create. Of course, 659 00:41:58,396 --> 00:42:01,236 Speaker 2: they did this without Hughes's permission, and along the way 660 00:42:01,236 --> 00:42:05,276 Speaker 2: they violated every known journalistic standard and code, raising questions 661 00:42:05,316 --> 00:42:07,516 Speaker 2: about their moral fiber in the line between truth and 662 00:42:07,556 --> 00:42:11,476 Speaker 2: fiction and blah blah blah. Enough, I think we should 663 00:42:11,476 --> 00:42:16,076 Speaker 2: reserve our outrage for outrages that are truly outrageous. If 664 00:42:16,076 --> 00:42:19,676 Speaker 2: someone attacks you, you don't always have to retaliate, And 665 00:42:19,716 --> 00:42:22,956 Speaker 2: if discretion is the better part of valor, sometimes doing 666 00:42:22,996 --> 00:42:26,436 Speaker 2: nothing at all is the better part of discretion. At 667 00:42:26,476 --> 00:42:30,036 Speaker 2: the time Irving's Hoake's biography appeared, the real Hughes was 668 00:42:30,076 --> 00:42:32,996 Speaker 2: sitting in the dark in a hotel room in the Bahamas, 669 00:42:33,236 --> 00:42:37,836 Speaker 2: addicted to painkillers, watching the same movies over and over again, 670 00:42:37,956 --> 00:42:42,116 Speaker 2: and worrying about his finger nails. Meanwhile, what did Clifford 671 00:42:42,156 --> 00:42:44,996 Speaker 2: Irving have Hughes doing in the twilight of his life. 672 00:42:45,596 --> 00:42:48,676 Speaker 2: It's all in the last chapter of the greatest unread 673 00:42:48,756 --> 00:42:56,476 Speaker 2: autobiography of the twentieth century, Irvings. Howard Hughes went to India, 674 00:42:57,156 --> 00:42:59,756 Speaker 2: had a darshan with a guru, where he at last 675 00:42:59,796 --> 00:43:06,556 Speaker 2: found a measure of peace and self understanding. Then Irvings 676 00:43:06,596 --> 00:43:11,316 Speaker 2: Howard Hughes, famous Germaphoe, stripped down to his underwear and 677 00:43:11,436 --> 00:43:14,836 Speaker 2: sat by the Ganges in the lotus position, joining all 678 00:43:14,876 --> 00:43:16,796 Speaker 2: the other beggars on the riverbank. 679 00:43:18,636 --> 00:43:24,756 Speaker 11: And I was day loosed with money, with dollars, with rupees, 680 00:43:25,156 --> 00:43:32,156 Speaker 11: with English pounds, with yen, with marks and francs. People 681 00:43:32,316 --> 00:43:40,076 Speaker 11: couldn't pass by without giving me something. Indians, Asians, Europeans, 682 00:43:41,356 --> 00:43:42,516 Speaker 11: everyone gave. 683 00:43:43,876 --> 00:43:43,956 Speaker 5: You. 684 00:43:44,036 --> 00:43:49,876 Speaker 11: See, money just gravitates to some people, whether they're accumulating 685 00:43:49,956 --> 00:43:54,876 Speaker 11: twa stock or sitting by the side of a muddy 686 00:43:54,956 --> 00:44:00,356 Speaker 11: river in India. They're money magnets, and money is like 687 00:44:00,916 --> 00:44:05,956 Speaker 11: metal shavings. I'm one of those people. 688 00:44:08,356 --> 00:44:11,836 Speaker 2: Clifford Irving elevated Howard Hughes into something other than a 689 00:44:11,836 --> 00:44:15,316 Speaker 2: broken down old man in a hotel room. He turned 690 00:44:15,356 --> 00:44:17,996 Speaker 2: him into the richest beggar the Ganges had ever seen. 691 00:44:19,236 --> 00:44:22,716 Speaker 2: Everyone who read Irving's book believed that passage. They thought 692 00:44:22,756 --> 00:44:26,556 Speaker 2: it was real. Everyone at McGraw hill, people who had 693 00:44:26,636 --> 00:44:30,476 Speaker 2: known Hughes for years, believed it. Everyone and the whole 694 00:44:30,476 --> 00:44:34,676 Speaker 2: world would have believed it too. All Howard Hughes had 695 00:44:34,676 --> 00:44:40,516 Speaker 2: to do was read the book. Oh Howard, you idiot. 696 00:44:48,236 --> 00:44:53,236 Speaker 11: Revisionist History is produced by Mea LaBelle and Leeman Gistu, 697 00:44:53,476 --> 00:44:59,796 Speaker 11: with Jacob Smith, Eloise Linton, and Anna Nahim. Our editor 698 00:44:59,956 --> 00:45:06,476 Speaker 11: is Julia Barton. Original scoring by Louise Gera, mastering by 699 00:45:06,556 --> 00:45:12,316 Speaker 11: Flon Williams. Fact checking by Beth Johnson. Special thanks to 700 00:45:12,436 --> 00:45:18,596 Speaker 11: our voice artist Alex Robertson and the Pushkin Crew, Heather Faine, 701 00:45:19,076 --> 00:45:26,356 Speaker 11: Carl Migliori, Maya Kanig, Eric Sandler, Maggie Taylor, Jason Gambrell 702 00:45:26,676 --> 00:45:30,076 Speaker 11: and of course el Hefe, Jacob Wiseberg. 703 00:45:33,436 --> 00:45:34,236 Speaker 2: I'm mackin dappo