WEBVTT - The Redirect 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.400 So the way that I see this thing going is 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:13.640 Bail's and McLoughlin are drinking. Bail starts talking about, here's 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.160 what we need to do. We need to go out 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:17.360 take the fight to the enemy. 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.520 Private James Alexander believes that staff Sergeant Robert Bales had 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.960 helped from his friends in committing the Canahar massacre. He 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:27.360 outlines his theory on the chain of events that occurred 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.720 on March eleventh, twenty twelve Bail's recruits. 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.160 He says, hey, I don't need you to fire, because 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:36.239 this is how Bales is. I don't need you to 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:38.680 shoot people with me. I just need you to hold 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:40.480 the light or I need you to have my back 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:41.440 while I go talk. 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:41.880 To these people. 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.040 All I want to do is go out there and 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:47.160 scare some folks, right, he says something like that goes 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:51.760 along with it. So they go. Bales loses it, right, 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:55.600 he snaps, he starts killing people. They come back in 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.959 through the main gate and Bales takes the rack. 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:05.119 Tell us, go shower, you know, get dressed, get ready 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.399 and play like you don't know anything. And then I'm 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.600 going to use the useful idiot, which is McLoughlin, and 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.319 I'm going to go into his room, and I'm gonna 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:16.759 say I'm the one. 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:17.039 That did this. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:24.080 Previously on the war within, the army turned a blind 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:29.360 eye to a soldier that obviously needed NS deployed him 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:31.320 to me, they're COPD. 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.080 Kristin harm Because I was saying, we're hearing that there's 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:35.080 some more than one soldier. 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:36.400 What is actually going on here? 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.720 Yeah, it was not alone, but it was the Americans 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:43.200 who put the responsibility of this act on this one person. 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:45.759 People don't remember things the exact same way. 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.560 Sometimes people misplace events in trauma. 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.080 Let's try to walk around my wife. Whatever happened. 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:57.600 The gate guard has said that two people came in 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:02.280 and one person left is Michael, that Bales was helped 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.680 in some way to commit these crimes with the aid of. 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:09.960 It's been some time since you and I first started 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:14.399 talking about your case and everything, and ultimately we thought 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:19.520 it was only right that Bob Bales at the final say. 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.959 I'm Mike McGinnis. This is the war within the Robert 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:32.280 Bayles story. The suspicion that Robert Bales may not have 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.000 acted alone in committing the Candahar massacre can be seen 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.440 as a breakthrough in a story that has been shrouded 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:42.000 in mystery. It recontextualizes comments that appeared throughout the podcast, 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.280 like one Private Gavin Jones made back in the first episode. 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:50.000 Bales took us aside and had a conversation with about men. 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.240 You know, war as hell. I know it gets weird 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.120 out there. I basically saying that, like, if you need 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:56.959 to make that shot and there's someone in front of 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:58.720 you that doesn't need to be shot, like you can 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:00.560 make that shot and know that we've got your back 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:00.840 on that. 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.959 According to Gavin, Baals told his squad that if any 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.400 of them broke the rules of war, he would step 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.720 up and protect them. But that alone doesn't mean that 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:15.360 there's some grand conspiracy here. Brendan Vaughan, the GQ writer 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.920 who profiled Bales in twenty fifteen, was not convinced that 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:20.960 other soldiers were involved in the killings. 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:25.480 Some of the Afghan people have said that there were 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.919 anywhere from one other American soldier to lots of other 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:30.840 American soldiers. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:31.120 There. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.240 There are people who have said he was protecting other people. 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.160 I suppose that's possible. Look, there is a Hollywood thriller 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.640 version of this story where there's a huge military cover 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.760 up and it was multiple soldiers and Bales took the fall, 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.040 you know, I mean, and I've heard these kinds of 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:51.920 theories before about this case. I just have no reason 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:52.760 to believe any of that. 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:53.520 That's concrete. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.120 One of the most chilling parts of talking to Balls 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:00.960 was when I asked him about this, How could one 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.000 soldier do all this damage in such a sort amount 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.960 of time, and he said, we're really well trained. I 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:10.960 can't argue with our training. And I thought that was just, 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:13.040 you know, a pretty powerful moment. 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.599 Despite this denial by Baals, the sense of uncertainty around 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:23.599 what really happened that night lingers on. Even John Henry Brown, 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:28.120 Bayles's trial lawyer, who encouraged him to plead guilty, equivocated 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:29.520 on the subject during our interview. 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:31.760 There was a lot of doubt about whether we and 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.200 there still is doubt I think about whether Bobby was alone. 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:38.719 Do you believe that there was a second person involved? 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.000 I don't know the answer to that, Bobby, of course, 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:42.080 for there wasn't. 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:42.520 There wasn't. 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:43.120 There wasn't. 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.880 But you know, camaraderie in the military is pretty strong. 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:49.719 If you just do the numbers of what he did 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.560 in two different villages in the amount of time. It's 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.039 hard to believe it was just one person. But I 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.800 do believe that bobbably was one person. But if there 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:01.920 was somebody else Bob, Bobby would ever admit it. 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.640 The idea that Baales was the type of person to 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.200 not implicate others in his crimes was confirmed by his 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.039 wife Carrie, who used some interesting language when speaking to 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:13.839 our producer Max Nelson. 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:19.120 Bob accept the responsibility for murders, pleaded guilty. Is there 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.599 anything that he's ever said that would imply that he 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:22.839 didn't this by himself. 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.839 He's never shied away of owning up to what happened. 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.520 He's always been clear that you know, yes, he did this. 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.920 He's always said it was him and only him, and 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.559 I honestly think he will take that to his death. 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:46.760 Bailes's attorney, John Mayer had the following reaction to this 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:50.560 line of questioning. Well, John's spoken to a few of 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.440 the lower enlisted guys and a couple other people that 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.919 were stationed at Ballumbay, and they're of the mind that 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.159 there was a second person involved in the crimes. You 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.400 think there was a second person? This is the first I've. 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:02.560 Heard of it. 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:06.080 Mike, really, what can you tell me? 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:06.960 Uh? 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.720 Well, I mean they seemed to believe that someone accompanied 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.159 him when he headed out north and then when he 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:19.680 came back, that this potential second stay. None of that's 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.400 in the record of trial. It's it's believe or not, 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:28.800 it's in the CID records. Come on, yeah, I'm shocked her, Mike. 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:30.680 I've got to look into them whether or not there's 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:31.520 another man there. 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.080 Bales has never indicated that there might have been. 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:38.359 A second never, not once in a public record or 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.960 in a private conversation, or in any of the writings 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:42.839 that we exchange. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:44.600 Not once. 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:48.680 We didn't know what to make of John Maher's lack 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:53.200 of awareness of these allegations, especially considering he was in 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.080 the room, and Bales made remarks like this one in 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:57.640 December twenty seventeen. 0:06:58.440 --> 0:06:59.720 The time, I don't know if you remember this, they 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.640 were all reports that there were twelve SF guys out there, 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.920 the helicopters are flying around. I ended that I stopped, 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.280 that I took that responsibility right, And what does the 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.040 government do for my honesty? All this becomes you know, 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.600 this guy is crazy, this guy, this guy's insane. 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.880 If you could focus I mean during your missions in panjuwe. 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:26.240 Look, all of this can mean something or it could 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:29.440 mean nothing. You can drive yourself nuts trying to parse 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.200 whether Bails and his confident on straight thoughts are pointing 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:33.240 to something hidden secret. 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:34.840 You know, I'm not a perfect guy. 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:36.120 You know the I cut corners. 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:37.920 Do you get things done? Of course I did. Somebody 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:39.520 had to be a dirty work. I'd do it, you 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:41.600 know what I mean, And that's that's fine. It's just 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.280 difficult to sit back and think that, you know, you 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:47.480 can say I did all this. Why do we have 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:49.360 to lie about it? Why don't we have to hide 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:49.960 the evidence? 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.520 It sounds incriminating, except the evidence Bails is talking about 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:58.480 refers to whether the AFGHANSI killed were Taliban, a thread 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.880 we've already covered at length. By the same token, it's 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.920 almost impossible to know whether, and talking about his squad 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:10.960 in Afghanistan, Bail simply misspeaks or makes a crucial Freudian slip. 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:13.840 We had developed a team before we had got there 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.440 a little bit. We had heard a lot of negative 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.920 connotations about working with regular line infantry unit guys, and uh, 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.120 you know, I was going to dispel that. You know, 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:24.760 we were gonna. 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:26.080 We were going to. 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.600 Be the best, and I think we were. They would 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.120 have been impressed with us had we not done what 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.800 we did, or had I not done what I did. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.560 That last part one more time. 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.040 They would have been impressed with us had we not 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.520 done what we did, or had I not done what 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:49.280 I did. 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.600 These days, true crime is one of the most popular 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.400 genres of storytelling. Plenty of people make their living off 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.000 of invest gaining an old murder case and searching for 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.400 some clue that breaks it wide open. But that kind 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.559 of criminology can be a slippery slope when the slim 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:13.280 possibility of an incredible lie becomes more interesting, more sellable 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:18.280 than the simple truth. Here's Curtis Grace of the PANJHWI podcast. 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:22.720 Our government is not competent enough to cover up any 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.720 kind of conspiracy. That's like of any kind of strength. 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:28.720 We can't even afford to buy toilets in bulk without 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:30.719 paying like way too much money for them. You think 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.719 we're really capable of, like covering up some grand conspiracy. 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:37.160 It's just not possible. But that being said, the military 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:42.600 does have a history of downplaying things, or maybe omitting things, 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:47.640 or not outright lying, but you know, sometimes don't investigate 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.880 that or don't worry about what that soldier said. 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:52.520 We got our guy. 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:54.040 Did they do that? 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:54.760 I don't know. 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.560 Whenever we query bail this prosecutor, Lieutenant Colonel J. Moose, 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:07.559 about potential emissions in this case, he flatly refuted their importance. 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:13.520 It happened with methl quinn TBI steroids. It wasn't much 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.400 different this time. When we asked whether Bales acted alone. 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.319 This idea that there was more than one soldier involved 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:23.880 other than Bales. I will tell you that no one 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.520 who was an eyewitness says anything other than one person. 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:28.959 No, not one. 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.240 There may have been other people in the community who 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.480 said that there was a platoon out here. I remember 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.840 one person apparently said, not to us, but elector reporters 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.600 that there were helicopters in the area. No one who 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.840 was actually there, not the kids. None of them there 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:46.840 said anything other than one person. 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:51.480 In our interviews, the Afghan villagers clearly felt that more 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:55.520 than one person was involved, but Morse's right to say 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.320 that none of them saw multiple American soldiers with their 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:03.480 own eyes. Aji Wazir Baran, the two men who stated 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.720 that a whole American squad had attacked. They weren't at 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:08.920 the scene. Here's baran. 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:15.280 Robert Bayles was not alone. They all did this massacre. 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:20.840 They only presented this one person. These are military tactics. 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.000 When the American forces surrounded the house, they would send 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:26.160 one of them in to kill. 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:28.720 Did all of the Americans shoot? 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.199 Only Robert Bayles entered the houses? The people who survived 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:34.600 say that he entered alone. 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.600 So how do you know that the American soldiers were outside, Because. 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:43.440 We know their military tactics. I think they surrounded other houses. 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:45.360 You think. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.160 Any allegation that that was other than one person, like 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.760 even just the smallest bit of scrutiny, that thing would 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.199 fall apart. So any concern I had that the victims 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:57.120 weren't going to tell conflicting stories, I just didn't have 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:57.800 that concern. 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.800 Then again, even with Morse's reassurances, the Army made a 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.720 couple moves during Robert Bales's trial that might raise the 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.640 eyebrows of someone with a k eye for conspiracies, like 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:12.960 how they treated James Alexander's testimony. 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:17.840 The UCMJ called me, hey, get ready to testify, and 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:21.440 so I testified that yes, two people had come in 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.120 one person I'd left that I believed that somebody else 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.079 was involved and that being as was taking the rap. 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:32.040 And from there I thought, Okay, I'm gonna sit back, 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.600 my phone is gonna ring, and I'm gonna be on 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:39.079 Anderson Cooper, you know, telling the story. And that never happened. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.280 It was like cool, that was it. It was like, 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:44.880 thank you for your service, now leave. 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:50.160 What's more, the government treated staff Sergeant Jason McLoughlin and 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:55.120 Soldier X differently from the other soldiers. First they were 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.960 demoted in rank, then they were granted immunity from being 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:05.080 prosecuted themselves. We asked Soldier X about the armies rationale, that's. 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.880 The standard procedure. They want us to be able to 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.720 speak comfortably. And we still got reprimanded for the alcohol 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.360 consumption trust like we would and I think it was 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:15.880 just like a show of terry. We want you to 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.800 speak comfortably about the sensor that tumbles like absolutely. 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.280 When immunity is offered to key witnesses in a case, 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:27.000 it's usually in exchange for cooperation. The tactic Hamstrong defense 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.320 attorney John Henry Brown's ability to point the finger at 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.520 anybody else and bails a squad. 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.040 I think we knew that immunity was being offered a 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.320 whole sale because I think the higher ups than the 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.319 military didn't really know what the two story was. So 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.400 I think they were afraid that people who worked with Bobby, 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.240 whether they liked him or not, would do what they. 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.400 Could to cover his ass. 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:55.119 They learned quickly the influence that superiors have in the military, 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.600 so I think that everybody was concerned about their future. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:11.120 Data script a lot of speculation here. Every claim that 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:15.520 one person makes is contradicted by somebody else, and after 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.480 months of interviews and research, it felt like we were 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.840 no closer to knowing for sure whether anyone else was 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:26.160 personally responsible for the Canaharan massacre. The only person who 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.760 we knew had the answer with Staff Sergeant Robert Bales. 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.640 Okay, so what's the game plan now, and what are 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.040 we doing and what's going on? I mean, just give 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:38.040 me a bottom line, guys. 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.720 On December fifteenth, twenty twenty two, our team recorded one 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:48.000 final interview with Baiales. Recording devices aren't allowed into Fort 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.240 Leavenworth Prison anymore, so this conversation was held over the 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:55.480 phone on a secure attorney client line arranged by John Marr. 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.280 Okay, so, Bob, We've got ninety minutes this afternoon. 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.320 Okay, man. 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:04.320 It was during this call that Paul Pulowski Max Nelson 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.840 broke the subject of Bales for the first time of 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:09.840 him taking the fall for his guys. 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.840 Hey, Bob, if you look up this story on YouTube, 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.640 for example, there's this female reporter who speaks to some 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:20.120 of the people in the village of some of the 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.640 Afghans and Alla Kozai and Najabian. Some of those Afghans 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.360 are like, oh, there were a lot of American soldiers 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.760 there that night. It wasn't just one person, it was 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:30.640 a lot of people. 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:39.320 This is a Caliban controlled area. This is a Caliban 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.560 the village, and they will do what the Caliban tell 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.320 them to do. So the Caliban are not stupid people. 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.640 The truth is they're very intelligent when it comes to 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:57.960 using information operations in propaganda. That video was propaganda. It 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.160 was used to try to get Caliban to come to 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.760 their side. That video was used to try to hurt 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:11.080 America's movement to win hearts and minds. It was used 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.440 to try to hurt me personally. It was used to 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.960 try to discredit anything was being done, and so that 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.920 entire video, for the most part, is inaccurate fels and 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:28.000 a bunch of propaganda. They interview these people that are 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:32.920 lying because they're told to lie about what happened that night. 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.640 There wasn't fifty people out there, There wasn't twelve people 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.640 out there, There wasn't how many people were There was 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:44.520 me that was it, and then I came back and 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.480 then nobody went out there until the next afternoon, and 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:54.000 so it's not true. It didn't happen. It's propaganda. It's 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.600 another piece of evidence that I am trying to get 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.960 people to understand. These were Carara ban and it's pretty 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.160 clear and obvious to anybody that's willing to look. 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.560 Well, as a follow up to that, we've discussed you're 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.439 a guy with very strong principles. If in fact you 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.560 are the only guy out there, you kind of strike 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:12.960 me as. 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.000 A guy that probably wouldn't shut up. 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:16.320 And take the fall. 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.000 Yeah, and the kind of just not rat anybody out, 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:21.720 given your principles. 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.359 I would never rat out anybody, and I would always 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:27.240 take the fall if that was what needed to be 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:32.040 done for my country on every day, twice on Tuesday. 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:37.320 But that's not what happened here. And if that's what happened, 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.159 don't you think my country would take care of me? 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:43.800 Have they taken care of me? Now? They haven't taken 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:49.040 care of me. They been exactly opposite of that. They've 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.399 hunged me out to drive. And if they've hung me 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.240 out the drive for this long, don't certain thing? Time 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:57.600 have said something? After eleven years of being treated the 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.480 way I've been treated, I probably would have at something 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:01.480 at this point, don't. 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:06.080 You think perhaps? But again, you know a smart man would, 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:12.159 But a principal man sometimes overrides or smarts of the 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:14.360 principles accept the loyalty. 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:19.440 One way is stupidity, right, that's stupidity. When they let 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:23.480 the Taliban go and they kept me in prison, how's 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.600 that justice? Man? You know, up until that point you 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:28.320 could say a lot of things and say, you know, 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.160 we're being just, we're being fair. You know, the talibanner 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.760 still being held in captivity. You know it's it's right 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.199 to each the justice under a law. He let one 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.080 hundred and fifty Taliban prisoners on death row go free. 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.840 You know they're living way better than I'm living right here. 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:51.280 I know who in their right mind if there was 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.000 something in order to tell wouldn't tell it. 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:59.199 Bails is adamant and consistent with the stance he's been 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:03.280 espousing for you years. According to him, the United States 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.960 has abandoned him, and he sees no reason to lie 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:10.280 on the nation's behalf. Whether he'd cover up information simply 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.680 to ensure that his brother in arms would lead a normal, 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.240 happy life, that's harder to parse. 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.560 We spoke for a little bit, so just wondering what 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.280 your impression card with him was. 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.440 Music. Yeah, he was a soldier. I loved him to death. 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.000 I mean, I'll tell you right now, of all the 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.240 people that I feel like I heard, I feel like 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:33.720 I let him down the most. He's a young man, 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.679 just had had a baby, newly married. I brought him 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.399 up from a sniper. I'm not sure what happened to 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.199 him after that, you know, at the trial or at 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:47.760 the hearing. You know, my wife gave my hug in life. 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.960 I went up him the great things for and I 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.240 hope he I hope he went on had a happy life. 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.760 And I love him. I mean as far as guys 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.320 I love. I loved him and he was though he 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:00.919 was a warrior. 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:05.480 Even now, Robert Bale still considers soldier X to be 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:09.640 a friend. Then again, Baals didn't have a bad word 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.439 to say about anybody, even the people who he suspected 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.879 might not reciprocate, like Special Forces Captain Danny Fields is 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:19.280 superior in Afghanistan. 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.520 You know, I know Captain Field's probably had a lot 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.240 of negative things to say about me. I respect him, man. 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.679 You know, these guys went over there and did what 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.600 other people wouldn't do. You know, they raised their hand. 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:35.600 They're willing to go into a fight that other people 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.200 aren't willing to go into. I was upset with him 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:40.760 at the time. I think he should have been more aggressive, 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.159 and I don't know why he wouldn't fight. But sitting 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:45.840 back looking at it now, I don't know what his 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.399 orders were, So tho am I to question him? You 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:51.080 know my job was to due when I was told. 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:55.800 Even James Alexander, one of Bailes's harshest critics, got a 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.800 positive review from the imprisoned former staff sergeant Alexander. 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:04.000 Here's another good guy. I you know. He he was 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:06.440 the guy that the army tried to make me out 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.600 to be a racist, and they kind of turned his 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:14.119 words and manipulated what Alexander was trying to say, and 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.680 then he stood up and said, no, that's not what 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:17.479 I meant by that. 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:20.560 We hadn't heard that story from the time of the trial, 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:25.280 but when we interviewed Alexander, nobody had to coax him 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:26.760 into expressing his opinions. 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:29.879 Bails is a racist, Like, there's no doubt I was 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.440 singing in the shower and you know, singing hip hop 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:34.240 music and he's like, who's that nigga in there singing? 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:35.879 But when he saw it was me, he was like, 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:40.400 oh sorry, it's like cool, fuck, You're sorry. 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.240 The only person Bail spoke negatively about was the man 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:49.800 responsible for putting him away for life. Prosecuting attorney Jane Morse. 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:56.840 So clearly printed Colonel Morris, he was ambitious, right, And 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:01.280 I can't fault anyone for being ambitious. And I think 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.399 he wanted to make a name for himself. And so 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:07.640 you know, this is a huge case for anyone. You know, 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:09.960 he's running around trying to you know, get on a 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:14.800 certain of TV and trying to become famous, and you know, 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:18.399 this is his claim to fame. And I think you 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:23.520