1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk on Buzz Night, and this is the 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk Podcast. Now, what if the price of 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: your dream life was walking away from one of the 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: most powerful jobs in Hollywood. Steve Bardwell spent years as 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: chief counsel for Walt Disney Studios, navigating billion dollar deals, 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: high stakes negotiations, and the relentless pressure of the entertainment 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: industry's legal machine. But behind closed doors, he was writing songs, 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: leading a band, and wrestling with a question that haunted him, 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: what if There's more. 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 2: In twenty twenty four, Steve made a decision that seemed 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: crazy to everyone around him. He left Disney to pursue 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 2: music full time. One year later, he got a critically 13 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: acclaimed album produced by eleven time Grammy winner Joe Chicarelli, 14 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 2: Rave reviews from so many folks, and he's heading back 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 2: into the studio. This is the story of how he 16 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 2: did it, why he did it, and what it cost him. 17 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 3: Welcome to Taking a Walk. Steve Bardwell is next Taking 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 3: a Walk, Steve bard Will. Welcome to the Taking a 19 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 3: Walk Podcast. 20 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 4: Thank you very much, happy to be here, thanks for 21 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 4: having me. 22 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 5: So, since we call the show Taking a Walk, we 23 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 5: like to ask this question It's fascinating we get all 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 5: different sorts of answers from everybody, all walks of life. 25 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 5: If you could take a walk with someone Steve, living 26 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 5: or dead, who would you take a walk with and 27 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 5: maybe tell us where you might take that walk with him? 28 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 4: Well, that's that's kind of an interesting and tough question. 29 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 4: At the same I could take a walk with anyone, 30 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 4: livy or not. 31 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 5: Livy correct for for living? Just go you can be 32 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 5: your imagination. Well maybe not. I don't know, no criteria 33 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 5: to it. You tell me? 34 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 4: Can I pick one living in one not living? Absolutely 35 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 4: the not living person I'd like to take a walk 36 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 4: with his Mark Twain. I think I just think he's 37 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 4: an interesting guy who i'd love to chat with and living. 38 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 4: Maybe Paul McCartney. 39 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 5: Okay, I don't know if there was a Mark Twain 40 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 5: answer ever, but there's been a number of Paul McCartney 41 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 5: answers for sure, as you could well imagine, So it 42 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 5: would be it would be quite a walk. I'd love 43 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 5: to be on a fly on the wall, for you've. 44 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 4: Met him a couple of times, but I'm you know, 45 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 4: at a restaurant, but never never really talked to him. 46 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 5: So you have an amazing story. Before we get into 47 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 5: the story, I wanted to hear first about your earliest 48 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 5: music influences that you can recall. 49 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 4: Well, it would have to be the Beatles seeing him 50 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 4: on it. You know, I saw him on Ed Sullivan 51 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 4: when I was really young. I really didn't understand what 52 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 4: it was, but I saw these people, girls screaming and 53 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 4: the crowd going crazy. And I had some older friends 54 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 4: that were really into the Beatles, and I would say 55 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 4: that was my first thing that influenced me or made 56 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:24,119 Speaker 4: me think about music being you know, cool. 57 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 5: And everything changed at anybody who saw that, right, their 58 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,959 Speaker 5: life probably changed, whether they went into music or whether 59 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 5: they became chief counsel for Walt Disney, their their life 60 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 5: changed when they saw this amazing moment in time, right. 61 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then when I was like, I 62 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 4: don't know, twelve or whatever, is when I started thinking 63 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 4: I would want to You know, this was many years 64 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 4: after seeing them on TV. But I wanted a good 65 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 4: and my parents got me a Saint George electric guitar 66 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 4: from Sears, which I which I wish I still had. 67 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 5: Oh, I was keeping my fingers crossed. I was like, 68 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 5: do you have it somewhere? Is it not in the 69 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 5: basement among cobwebs. 70 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 4: Is it's the honest thing that likes. Happened to it? 71 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 4: I wish I could say I sold it at a 72 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 4: pawn shop and got some I don't know what happened 73 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 4: to it. I don't know where it went. 74 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 5: So where did you grow up, Steve? 75 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 4: I grew up in the Valley and the San Fernando 76 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 4: Valley in Los Angeles outside you know, part of Los 77 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 4: Angeles proper, in Encino. 78 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 5: And do you remember the first concert of Shirt I'm 79 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 5: sure you do. 80 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 4: I do. When I was little, I was like ten, 81 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 4: and my cousin, who was she was like sixteen, drove 82 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 4: me and a friend of mine and a couple other 83 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 4: cousins in the station wearing the Dodger Stadium to see 84 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 4: the Beatles. 85 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 5: Oh oh, okay, we come full circle even more. And 86 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 5: that was the twenty eight minute or twenty nine unit show. Right. 87 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 4: It was a Dodger Stadium Bobby Hebb I think opened 88 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 4: for them. There was a tent set up, a green 89 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 4: and white tent set up in center field that had 90 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 4: a sign on it that said dressing room. And that's 91 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 4: where Bobby Head came out. And then he went back in, 92 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 4: and then the Beatles came out and they did play 93 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 4: for about twenty, like you said, twenty minutes half hour, 94 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 4: and the sound system was you know, those cone speakers 95 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 4: that they had at the same they didn't have like 96 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 4: the kind of sound systems they do now. Couldn't really 97 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 4: hear them because the girls were everyone was screaming so much. 98 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 4: And then they went in the dressing room at the end, 99 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 4: and then a car flew out the back end of 100 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 4: the dressing room and they opened the gates and they 101 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 4: were out of the stadium before he one had a 102 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 4: chance to even think that it was over. 103 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 5: And how many times did did Bobby have do Sonny? 104 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 4: He did it once? That was his big hit. 105 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 5: Yeah, because you know, if there really really wasn't a 106 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 5: big arsenal of songs, you usual he. 107 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 4: Played for He played longer than the Beatles, I think, 108 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 4: and I can't tell you any no one was paying 109 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 4: attention to him except but you know, sonny, he did do. 110 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 5: Yeah a great song, by the way, was. 111 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 4: A great song. Yeah, it is a great song. Still 112 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 4: was a great song. 113 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 5: Yep. So okay, let's get to the meat of it here, sir. 114 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 5: You were chief counsel at Walt Disney Studios, one of 115 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 5: the most prestigious legal positions in Hollywood, no less anywhere. 116 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 5: Can you take us back to that moment where you 117 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 5: decided to walk away? What was that conversation like with yourself? 118 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 5: I'm sure it'd been going on. 119 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 4: It had been going on, you know. I hadn't played 120 00:06:55,320 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 4: guitar for since, you know, in college and about I 121 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 4: don't know, fifteen years ago, I you know, bought Martin 122 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 4: acoustic guitar and started playing and writing some songs. And 123 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 4: my friend who I went to the Beatles concert with 124 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 4: that I grew up with, plays bass, so I asked 125 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 4: I told him I wanted to form a band. I 126 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 4: told him and some other musicians that I heard playing live, 127 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 4: and I approached him and said, I'm thinking of starting 128 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 4: a band. Would you be interested? We played, and we 129 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 4: actually got some pretty swell gigs. We you know, opened 130 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 4: for Donovan Franken, writer, Pablo Cruz at a Money, Jim Messina, 131 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 4: Robbie Kreeer, Dickey Betts, and most recently before I left, 132 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 4: while I was still at Disney, we did a show 133 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 4: opening for Lyle Lovett and his Big Band at the 134 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 4: Saban Theater in Beverly Hills. But I could never really 135 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 4: promote it or spend full time because I had no 136 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 4: music cred because I was Chief counsel of Walt Disney Company. 137 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 4: And that's a pretty much of a full time job, 138 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 4: as you can imagine, because I oversaw the legal affairs 139 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 4: of you know, Marvel, Pixar, Lucasfilm, Walt Disney Animation, Walt 140 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 4: Disney Studios, Fox search Light, Fox Pictures, the distribution arm, 141 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 4: the music Disney Music Group tell you, and there was 142 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 4: some other responsibilities as well. I had a you know, 143 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 4: hundreds of people on my team, and it was it 144 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 4: was an amazing job, you know, I got. I worked 145 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 4: with some of you know, some of the people at 146 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 4: Disney were extremely creative and smart. You know. I worked 147 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 4: with the chairman of the studio, Alan Berdman, who I'm 148 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 4: still very good friends with. We have dinner, you know. 149 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 4: But once a month or so, I worked with Steve 150 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 4: jobs a lot, got to be pretty got to know 151 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 4: him from really well, you know, Kathy Kennedy at Lucasfilm, 152 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 4: Kevin Fidy at marwoll and John Lasseier and Ed Capmill 153 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 4: were at Pixar, and and then you know, uh, Jim 154 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 4: Morris and Pete Doctor were there when I left, and 155 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 4: I had decided that I'd been I'd been there and 156 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 4: done a lot of that, and COVID hit and I 157 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 4: was we were all working from home doing zoom meetings, 158 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 4: and I just thought it was a you know, if 159 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 4: I'm going to do the music thing, I got to 160 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 4: do it. And so I told Alan Bergman that I 161 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 4: wanted to, uh, you know, to leave, and he he said, oh, 162 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 4: can't you just stay, you know, one more year? And 163 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 4: I did that, and then he said I was the 164 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 4: year was coming. He goes, well, can you just stay 165 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 4: six more months? And I go, okay, but that's it. 166 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 4: I'm that's it. I'm I'm out of here. And and 167 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 4: I left, and I know you you asked, like, what 168 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 4: was my thought process? It's what It was kind of 169 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 4: bittersweet because, you know, and it was wasn't the easiest 170 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 4: decision to make, because when you're working a job like that, 171 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 4: my identity was kind of wrapped up in being chief 172 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 4: counsel of the Walt Disney studio. My business cards, you know, 173 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 4: had Mickey Mouse on it and said, you know, chief 174 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 4: counsel Walt Disney Studios. When I would go to meetings, 175 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 4: restaurants knew that knew me as that. You know, you 176 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 4: check into a hotel and you give them the card that's. 177 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 5: Who you are. 178 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 4: You're kind of wondering, well, who am I going to be? 179 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 4: What am I going to you know what if the 180 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 4: music thing doesn't work out? You know, you just never 181 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 4: know what when you're time's up, and I just figure, 182 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 4: I know what life at Disney's like, really well, but 183 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 4: I don't know what life outside of Disney is like. 184 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 4: And maybe I'll be bored. Hopefully I can do the 185 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 4: music thing, but at least I want to just see 186 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 4: what else in life has to offer besides Disney. And 187 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 4: the only way to do that is to leave. And 188 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 4: so that's kind of where I landed. 189 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 5: And besides Alan, did anyone in your family try to 190 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 5: talk to you out of it? Was there anybody that 191 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:17,599 Speaker 5: said no? 192 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 4: Because my family, my kids and my wife knew that 193 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 4: I wanted to do the music thing. You know, when 194 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 4: I left, I didn't have and you know, songs that 195 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 4: I knew I wanted to record. I wrote the I 196 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 4: wrote some songs, new songs. After I quit, I wanted 197 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 4: to find a producer. Was I was starting when I 198 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 4: left with nothing music wise that would lead me to 199 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 4: believe that, you know, I definitely had a music place 200 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 4: to go. 201 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 5: It was a hope, as you had described, you know, 202 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 5: years back, getting into music and working with your your 203 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 5: friends and playing in a band. And did you sort 204 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 5: of feel the momentum of that sort of picking up 205 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 5: in terms of your passionate love for it as you were, 206 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 5: you know, first beginning it then. 207 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, and when we were beginning to all the guys, 208 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 4: everyone in the band, and by the way, everyone that 209 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 4: was in the original band is still in the band 210 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 4: except for our bass player who that George, the one 211 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 4: who I've been friends with growing up. I think as I, 212 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 4: as we got more serious with the music, he was 213 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 4: not as dedicated or you know, not into the commitment 214 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 4: that the rest of us were knew that we needed 215 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 4: to make to this, to go to that, to this 216 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 4: next level. But everyone else has been in the band, 217 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 4: and we all you know, I wasn't the only one 218 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 4: that had a full time job. Everyone else in the 219 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 4: band had other jobs too, But gradually the other guys 220 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 4: left their jobs and went into the you know, started 221 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 4: doing music full time. I was the last one out 222 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 4: out of a full time job. Our guitar player Johnny 223 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 4: Statulo when we we opened for Dicky Betts and they 224 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 4: heard and Johnny, I think, had met Dwayne Betts, Dicky's 225 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 4: son once or twice, and they were playing together. So 226 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 4: they started talking and they saw Johnny playing in our band, 227 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 4: and next thing, I you know, they were forming the 228 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 4: All in Bets Ban. This was like ten years ago, 229 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 4: and they asked Johnny to join the Almend Bets Ban. 230 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 4: So he's been touring and recording with them, and he's 231 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 4: also been playing and out with Dwayne Betts. Johnny brought 232 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 4: our drummer, Vince and our keyboard player Max out with 233 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 4: them and they're touring with Dwayne. 234 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 5: Betts as well. 235 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 4: And Vince has also toured with an electronic music artist 236 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 4: named Zoo Zhu and Aaron, the saxophone player, was touring 237 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 4: with Zoo and he brought Vince into that situation. So 238 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 4: I'm just you know, they're all everyone started getting more 239 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 4: serious about the music, and like I said, I was 240 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 4: the last one out of a job and into the music. 241 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 5: What were their jobs, just to you know, a variety 242 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 5: of different types of jobs of the ad. 243 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 4: Johnny worked for a beverage company as a manager of 244 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 4: some sort Aaron worked for He was a computer data analyst. 245 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 4: I think he worked for a short time for p 246 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 4: Diddy and uh Max worked He was at Max actually 247 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 4: won an Emmy because he Max is like a tech geek. 248 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 4: He plays B three organ and every kind of keyboard 249 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 4: you can imagine. We just finished the recording session. I 250 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 4: think he had nine different He had a Worlitzer, a 251 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 4: profit synth, a nord, a B three org. He has 252 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 4: his own B three organ. He repairs and fixes them. 253 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 4: He had whatever keyboard that's Stevie wondered used on you 254 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 4: know a long time ago, and he had the same 255 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 4: one that the Doors used, So I mean, and he 256 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 4: worked for the company that films sports events from planes 257 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 4: and blimps and helicopters, and he like hooks up and 258 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 4: creates the camera rigs and all that stuff. And he 259 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 4: won an Emmy for that. 260 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 5: So they come from all different walks of life basically, 261 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 5: and all roads intersected back. 262 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 4: To We've all become great friends. It's like a family. 263 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 4: We've had this. You know, Mass is the newest member 264 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 4: of the band that he's been with us over ten years. 265 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 5: So walk me through the decision to work with Joe Chicarelli. 266 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 5: You're you're a new artist, You're you're starting from scratch 267 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 5: kind of How did you get an eleven time Grammy 268 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 5: winner to take your call? 269 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 4: Well, it's funny. I knew I wanted to get a 270 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 4: good producer, and I was originally thinking and I called 271 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 4: a friend of mine who's in the business, and I said, hey, 272 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 4: I'm and I had by this time, I had written 273 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 4: the songs, and I had actually books some time at 274 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 4: East West Studios, like month, three or four months in advance, figuring, okay, 275 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 4: now I just got to find a producer. And I 276 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 4: asked my friend, I go, I want to get a 277 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 4: good producer. Can you you know who? Can I call? 278 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 4: I was thinking, like, do you know Rick Rubin? He goes, 279 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 4: He goes, that's not really my thing. Let me ask around. 280 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 4: I know some people. You know some people? 281 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 5: I know a guy. Yeah. 282 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 4: They send me three names and three phone numbers, and 283 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 4: I googled them. I didn't I hadn't. I didn't know 284 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 4: who Joe Chiccarelli was. I googled them and it said 285 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 4: he won eleven Grammys. And I saw the artists that 286 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 4: he worked with, Elton John and you two and Beck 287 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 4: and the Counting Crows and Jason Moraz and just you know, 288 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 4: Alanis Morrisset and Frank Zappa and Morrissey and My Morning 289 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,719 Speaker 4: Jacket and the Killers and the White Stripes. I mean, 290 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 4: it's just on and on and so I and I 291 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 4: always believe that if you don't ask, it's the same 292 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 4: as you know, if they said no. So what's what's 293 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 4: the downside? So I called them and got his voice message, 294 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 4: and so I said, Steve bardwell and gave him my 295 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 4: phone number, and then I didn't hear a few days later, 296 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 4: I get a text from saying, Joe Chickarelli here, what 297 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 4: do you want I go? I said, well, I said, 298 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 4: I'm texted him back and said, I'm a singer songwriter 299 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 4: and I'm making an album at East West and I 300 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 4: was looking for someone. I was hoping to work with 301 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 4: you as a producer. And he texted me back and said, 302 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 4: do you have any demos? And I so I did 303 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 4: have some, you know, songs that I had recorded on 304 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 4: my iPhone. They weren't professional, we've done demos at all. 305 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 4: I sent him to him, and he texted back and said, 306 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 4: cool songs. We should talk, so I figured, whoa, maybe 307 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 4: maybe you know I'll take that. So he we we 308 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 4: we talked on the phone and he was in at 309 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 4: the time, he was in France at a recording studio 310 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 4: doing an album with Morrissey, and he said, let's have 311 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 4: breakfast when I get back. I said that'd be great. 312 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 4: I met him for breakfast and you know, we started talking. 313 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 4: He said, so, what are you looking to? What are 314 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 4: you looking for with this album? I got? I want 315 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 4: you to win another Grammy. He just laughed. He goes, yeah, okay, 316 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 4: what are you you know? I you know, I asked, 317 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 4: what do you you know? What do you seeing? The 318 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 4: kind of record do you see? And we just started 319 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 4: talking and I told him about the band and the 320 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 4: times that I had booked in the studio. Coincidentally, he 321 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 4: was free to do the tracking, but he had he 322 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 4: was he had another project that he was working on. 323 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 4: So we did the track. We did the you know, 324 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 4: the tracking with the band in the studio and with guy. 325 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 5: I just did guide vocals at that. 326 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 4: Time, and he said, you know, I got to jump 327 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 4: into something else for a few months. So he goes, 328 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 4: you're not, are you? He's the one when we first 329 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 4: started talking, he said, are you in a hurry? Is 330 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 4: there a deadline? I go, no, whenever to I'll work 331 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 4: around you. And so a few months later we did 332 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 4: went back and did some guitar and uh keyboard overdubs 333 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 4: and did the vocals and then the background vocals. And 334 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 4: my wife, Catherine UH is a singer. And so when 335 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 4: it came time to do background vocals, I, you know, 336 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 4: Joe said, so who does your backup vocals? And I said, well, 337 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 4: it's my wife Catherine and Max. I go, but if 338 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 4: you want to bring somebody else in, that's fine with 339 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 4: you know. With me, I just want to make the 340 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 4: best record possible. He goes, well, let's if it's if 341 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 4: it's better, if it's your guys. If it works out, 342 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,479 Speaker 4: let's try him and if it doesn't work out, we'll 343 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 4: bring somebody in. So they had to go in and 344 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 4: sing for him, and he liked what they had to 345 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 4: bring to the table, and so it worked out. 346 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 5: Did he at all challenge your vision for the record 347 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 5: at least in those early conversations or did he just 348 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 5: sort of let you kind of no? 349 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 4: I told him, you know, the reason I'm coming to 350 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 4: you is I I've never done this before. I'm not 351 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 4: a I don't know anything about the recording process. Really, 352 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 4: I go, I want you to to make the best 353 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 4: record you can make with us, And he was amazing. 354 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 4: He said he wanted to come to our to our 355 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 4: rehearsals before we go into the studio. And so I 356 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 4: had booked the rehearsals for week with the band. So 357 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 4: as soon as Joe said he wanted to come to 358 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 4: the rehearsals, they called the band and go Joe wants 359 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 4: to come to the rehearsals for a week. We have 360 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 4: to rehearse a week before Joe. So the rehearsals ended 361 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 4: up being two weeks, one week with you know, just 362 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 4: the bus, trying to get our act together. And so 363 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 4: Joe doesn't walk and goes, what did I get myself into? 364 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 4: And you know, a week with Joe and he's he's amazing. 365 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 4: I mean, we become good friends. You know, I really 366 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 4: love the guy. He's just amazingly talented. 367 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 5: So he is known for being really hands on changing 368 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 5: tempos and switching keys and reworking. Is there a specific 369 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 5: example that you can give of a song where his 370 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 5: input completely changed what you thought it was originally going 371 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 5: to be? 372 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, We had this this recent on this just last album. 373 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 4: We had a song called good Things and we worked 374 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,239 Speaker 4: it up, you know, playing it a certain way. He 375 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 4: came in and he he was he knows. Every year 376 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 4: he'll tell Vince the drummer, don't place eighth notes and 377 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 4: play sixteens and you know, you got to drive the 378 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 4: energy before the chorus starts. Or he'll tell the you know, 379 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 4: the bass player. You know, I think you know those 380 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 4: guys are playing majors. You're playing a minor here. I 381 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 4: don't think that it's not sink and right. The song 382 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 4: that we were playing I would say had more of 383 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 4: a traveling Woolbury's or petty kind of vibe. That's the 384 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 4: closest thing I can think of. But when he got 385 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 4: done with this, it's like Stevie Wonder Motown song or something. 386 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 4: You know, I didn't even know we had it in us. 387 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 4: Like he he brings out the best in all of 388 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 4: our you know, all the music, all the music and 389 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 4: musicians that there is. And you you say, his hands, 390 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 4: I mean, I mean he would. We're playing a song 391 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 4: and we had to you know, we do a take 392 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 4: of the song and he goes, I'm going to come out, Vince, 393 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 4: I think I'm going to change that snare drum. And 394 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 4: he comes out and he's on his hands and knees. 395 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 4: He has a When we had breakfast, he said, you know, 396 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 4: I think for this album, what I'm hearing is, I 397 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 4: think you need a vintage Ludwig or Gretch drum kit. 398 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 4: Have your drummer called John at Angel City drum Works, 399 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 4: and you know, so we have this drum kit and 400 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,239 Speaker 4: he showered a bunch of snare drums or something. I 401 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 4: don't know the difference between a snare, a snare drums 402 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 4: a snare drum in my book, but he would try 403 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 4: out two or three snare drums and go back in 404 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 4: and nah and come out and put tape on those. 405 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 4: And he doesn't tell there's two assistants. He doesn't tell 406 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 4: them to come out, and he actually doesn't himself. He's 407 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 4: on his hands and knees, he's he's like hands on. 408 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 5: That's incredible. 409 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 4: The guy has the best ears in the in the business. 410 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 5: That is so wonderful just hearing that inside story there 411 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 5: on how he just just knows what he wants and 412 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 5: gets real specific and gets his hand thirty. 413 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 4: The specificity is unreal. You know, you come in and 414 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 4: I'm playing you know, I have He told me to 415 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 4: I have. I had a tailor guitar. I have a 416 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 4: tailor guitar, Martin guitar, and he Gibson. You know, he'd start, 417 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 4: he'd say, try to Gibson and I'm playing that. He goes, eh, 418 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 4: he tried the Martin. Eh, and then he and then 419 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 4: try the tailor I got hees, he goes hold on. 420 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 4: He goes upstairs. He has his own studio at East 421 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 4: West Studios now his own production studio, and he has 422 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 4: some guitars out there. He brings down an Epiphone, an 423 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 4: old Epiphone acoustic guitar that it's like the John Lennon model. 424 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 4: It had It wasn't John Lennon's signature, but it said, 425 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 4: you know, have the when Epiphone made this, they put 426 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 4: John Lennon's signature or you know in the guitar. I'm 427 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 4: playing that, and he goes, Dad, that'll work on whatever. 428 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 4: This was a particular song. I don't even remember what 429 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 4: song it was. But he has something, he has a 430 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 4: sound in mind that he's looking for. He knows how 431 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 4: to get it. 432 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 6: We'll be right back with more of the taking a 433 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 6: Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast. 434 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 5: Nothing but Time has been called timeless and contemporary. When 435 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 5: you were making it, did you have a particular sonic 436 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 5: target in mind that you were looking for, that that 437 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 5: you were chasing, or did it just turn out, you know, 438 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 5: just feel just right. 439 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 4: You know, I I wrote, I wrote all the songs, 440 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 4: and when I write them, I'm just playing him on 441 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 4: my acoustic guitar. So it's me and me and song. Really, 442 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 4: I never envisioned or had an idea of what it 443 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 4: would sound like with the band at the time I 444 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 4: wrote them. The process that when we work up a song, 445 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 4: I take that song to the band and I play 446 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 4: it for them. And there's a song magic Night in 447 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 4: Paris on the album that's kind of about an experience 448 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 4: I had at a jazz club in Paris, and it was, 449 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 4: you know, a swing dance kind of jazz club, and 450 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 4: I saw these people fall kind of what I thought 451 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 4: fall in love. An older guy and a younger woman 452 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 4: started dancing and as eating more on they were more 453 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 4: than dancing, and I wrote a song about it. So 454 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 4: I said, I want to get like a vibe of 455 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 4: a dance club in Paris in the forties or something, 456 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 4: and it was different sound than the other songs that 457 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 4: we were doing, and so we kind of were just 458 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 4: worked it up. And you know, Aaron plays sacks and flute, 459 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 4: and so with the piano and the saxophone, we were 460 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 4: able to get kind of a jazz by thing going 461 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 4: on the song. We work up the songs and then 462 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 4: we just started playing them for Joe, and Joe would 463 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 4: just add things and do things that we never even 464 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 4: thought of. You know, we think, oh, this is a 465 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 4: cool song. We got nailed. It still has the same 466 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 4: vibe and bones that we originally have, but Joe takes 467 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 4: it to a different level. He'll tell Johnny Johnny can 468 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 4: can play something, and he'll like mouth a riff on 469 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 4: a guitar riff and Johnny'll try something. He goes, no, no, no, 470 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 4: try something else. Yeah, that'll double it, double it, double 471 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 4: the tempo, or just do footballs there, don't play this, 472 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 4: and he just creates this sound that's you. Hear it 473 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 4: on the record and it's like you're just like, wow, 474 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 4: that's us. 475 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 5: I love Send them love. And why do you think 476 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 5: that song has resonated to such a great degree. 477 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 4: I wrote that song because this girl came to me 478 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 4: that was really bummed out because people have been saying 479 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 4: some really negative things about her online. I think I 480 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 4: just started thinking and I kept hearing more and more 481 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 4: about bullying online, and I think social media has really 482 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 4: messed up a lot of things. I almost don't want 483 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 4: to get started on that, but I just I told her, 484 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 4: don't pay attention to what other people say about you, 485 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 4: because what they say says more about them than it 486 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 4: does about you. Somebody saying something about you doesn't make 487 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 4: what they say. That's not who you are. You know 488 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 4: who you are, and you just got to take the 489 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 4: high road, you know, send them love. And then after 490 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 4: I did that, I got that could be a song, 491 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 4: and so I just kind of wrote down what I 492 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 4: told her and put it to music. And I think 493 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 4: it's resonated with people because I don't think there's anybody 494 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 4: that hasn't felt somebody, you know, saying something about them. 495 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 4: I don't know, when somebody says something negative about you, 496 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 4: if you listen to it and absorb it or pay 497 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 4: attention to it, give it power. It can affect you 498 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 4: in a negative way and discourage you. You make you 499 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 4: feel less. I just think it's important that you know. 500 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,239 Speaker 4: I always my thing is I don't take criticism from 501 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 4: anybody that I wouldn't want advice from. People do say 502 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 4: whatever they want. You just got to take the high 503 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 4: rogue and not push back. Don't go tip for tat 504 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 4: with somebody. Just okay, they said it, I'm sending them off. 505 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 4: I feel sorry for them. That's what they want to 506 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 4: spend their time doing well. 507 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 5: And you've said reading reviews feels like reading about somebody else, 508 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 5: so you've kind of illustrated in your own way about 509 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 5: your work too. Yeah. 510 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 4: Sometimes you know it's weird. I listen to my songs. 511 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 4: They helped me, Like if I'm thinking something that I'll 512 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 4: listen to a song. Yeah. Wow, I should take that advice. 513 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 4: I should take my own advice. It's kind of interesting 514 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 4: that way. 515 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 5: So you're heading back into East West Studios. You must 516 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 5: be so excited to record a new album. Yeah, and 517 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 5: with Joe. I mean, boy, it's I'm excited for you. 518 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 5: What's different though about you as an artist obviously now 519 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 5: compared to when you walked in there the first time. 520 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 4: I didn't know anything when I walked in the first time. 521 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 4: I've been having been through a recording session. I've learned 522 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 4: the jargon, I could speak the language at least Now 523 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 4: I don't ask as many questions like what is this me? 524 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 4: What are you talking about? And there's a comfort that 525 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 4: not only I have with the process, but I think 526 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 4: everybody in the band has because we've all worked with 527 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 4: Joe before and Joe knows us, we know Joe. It's 528 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 4: less stressful and less pressure, and I feel like I'm 529 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 4: more relaxed and the band's more relaxed, and maybe Joe. 530 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 4: Joe's comfortable. He's always he's pretty, he doesn't beat around 531 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 4: the bush. He tells you if something's not working, or 532 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 4: try this, do that. But I just think there's a 533 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 4: mutual familiarity and camaraderie that, you know, because we bonded. 534 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 4: I mean, recording an album when you're working together for 535 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 4: an extensive period of time and you're eating you know, 536 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 4: lunch and dinner with everybody for a number of days, 537 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 4: and you you know, just get to be friends. And 538 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 4: Joe and I become friends. We've gone out to dinner 539 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 4: and I just talked to him with morning. You know. 540 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 4: It's just different, and the songs are different this time. 541 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 5: Evolution, yeah, right, evolution, what traits from your past life 542 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 5: do you think have served you well in your new life. 543 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 4: I think, you know, working with creative people, I always 544 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 4: realize that the artist is very precious about what they 545 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 4: create because they they're invested in it. It's hard for 546 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 4: them to listen to other people. At the studio, we 547 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 4: would see dailies every day, and you know, if a 548 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 4: movie's three hours long or whatever, and not as many 549 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 4: people are going to see that movie if it's three 550 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 4: hours long, then if it's two hours long, and even 551 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 4: two hours long is plenty along for a movie. The 552 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 4: worst thing you want to do is how somebody come 553 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 4: out and say, it's a good movie, but wow, it's 554 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 4: too long. But and I just use as an example 555 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 4: because I think as an artist, I can get kind 556 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 4: of precious about the songs that I write. But when 557 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 4: when other professionals late i'm working with tell me their opinions, 558 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 4: I value. I welcome those. I don't want to be 559 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 4: so precious about them that I'm not willing to make 560 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 4: changes based on their suggestion. And I just believe that 561 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 4: the more creative input that there is to a project, 562 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 4: the better the song. For songwriting in particular, you know, 563 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 4: and from movie making too. Sometimes the reason you have 564 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 4: a team is a team sport, I'd say it's not 565 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 4: so much an individual sport. Yeah, look at the beat 566 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 4: I think the Beatles, when the four of them were together, 567 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 4: what they created was magical. I mean, they're all great 568 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 4: artists individually, but I don't think them alone was as 569 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 4: much magic as the four of them together were. 570 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 5: And yet those entities like that, just like organizations and teams, 571 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 5: can be very fragile, you know, especially as a long 572 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 5: time has been spent together, you know, touring and studio time. 573 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 5: Eventually those things sometimes wear thin, right, Yeah. 574 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:24,959 Speaker 4: And sometimes I have to tell my you, I find 575 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 4: myself being resistant to some suggestion I have too. Hey, dude, listen, 576 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 4: you don't know everything. Listen. 577 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 5: You know this show that I do is is an 578 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 5: extension of where I started, came out of the radio business, 579 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 5: but as an on air person is how I first 580 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 5: started before I got into the senior management. So for me, 581 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 5: taking a walk, you know, came out of that sort 582 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 5: of pursuit of the love of something and passion for something, 583 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,280 Speaker 5: wanting to sort of go back to my initial roots 584 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 5: and where my you know, where my heart really is. 585 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 5: So I understand it, at least from my perspective. But 586 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 5: in closing here, you know, taking your perspective on how 587 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 5: you followed your heart, and if someone's listening and they're 588 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 5: in this position of a job, a career course, how 589 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 5: would you get them in their own way to jump 590 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 5: off the curb and do what they love. 591 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 4: I would say one thing that kind of held me 592 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 4: back a little bit was thinking, you know, I wish 593 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 4: I would have done this when I was younger. Why 594 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 4: an idiot? Am I stupid? What am I thinking trying 595 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 4: to do this now? I think that it's never too 596 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 4: late to there's something you really want to do. At 597 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 4: the end of your life, you can look back and 598 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 4: say I tried this, I really wanted to do it, 599 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 4: I want for it. It didn't work out, but I 600 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 4: gave it my best shot, you know, or maybe it 601 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 4: did work out and wow, Or you can say I 602 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 4: never tried, I wish I would have, and I think I. 603 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 5: Wish I would have. 604 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 4: Is like the worst of those possibilities. You got to 605 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 4: go for it. Otherwise you're going to be looking back saying, 606 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 4: what if I wish I would have? I wonder if 607 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 4: I could have, you know, just the experience. Even if 608 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 4: I had failed at this, or it hadn't worked out, 609 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,720 Speaker 4: or you know, I didn't work with Joe or whatever, 610 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 4: I still would have enjoyed the learning experience of the 611 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 4: in the ride of trying it. And what's the downside? 612 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 5: Well, you know way more about movies than I know, 613 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 5: but this is the stuff that certainly movies are made of. 614 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 5: Who's going to play you in the movie. 615 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 4: Robert Downey, jor. 616 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 3: Go. 617 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 5: Quite a life there, right, It's an amazing story. The 618 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 5: music is fantastic. I can't wait to hear the new music. 619 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 5: And I really appreciate how it took us behind the 620 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 5: scenes there to the creation and your amazing story. And 621 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 5: Steve bardwell, I'm so glad that you're on Taking a Walk. 622 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 4: Well, thank you very much, happy to be here, thanks 623 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 4: for having. 624 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 5: Me, and come back again anytime. 625 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 4: Thank you very much. Baz. 626 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 6: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 627 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,720 Speaker 6: Walk podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 628 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 6: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 629 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 6: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 630 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 6: and wherever you get your podcasts.