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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles w Chuck Bryant and

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Speaker 1: Jerry's out there wandering around in the ether and that

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Speaker 1: makes this stuff. You should know. She's been wandering around

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Speaker 1: the ether for weeks at least, I dare say months

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Speaker 1: by not Chuck. Yeah, she's uh, actually just chatted with

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Speaker 1: Jerry from ten feet away. Oh that's nice, man, that

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Speaker 1: must have felt really special. Did in her hair is long? O? Man?

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Speaker 1: My hair is really long too. Yeah. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I saw Jerry a couple of months ago and her

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Speaker 1: hair was long, So she must have like a full

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Speaker 1: on like do now? Uh? Yeah, you know she looks

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Speaker 1: like a proper lady. I'm not touching that one, all right, So, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: this one was of yours. It was a nursing homes

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Speaker 1: is the idea? Right? Yeah? So I have a question

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Speaker 1: for you. What what made you decide that you want

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Speaker 1: to do on nursing homes? You know, I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: almost fifty, My parents are in their mid seventies. Emily's

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Speaker 1: grandmother is edging towards one so you know, this is

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Speaker 1: the kind of stuff that just you gotta start thinking

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Speaker 1: about at some point. And Emily and I are old

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Speaker 1: parents and have an only child that we don't want

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Speaker 1: her to have to like have to take care of

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Speaker 1: us or anything. So like we're just starting to have

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Speaker 1: all these thoughts. And I was like, yeah, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm not so sure America does it right here. Um,

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Speaker 1: And after studying this stuff, it's we do it, okay.

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Speaker 1: But it's also like, hey, work your whole life and

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Speaker 1: then go broke at the end. Yeah, that's that's a

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Speaker 1: real bomber about the whole thing is just you're just

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Speaker 1: kind of like expected to spend whatever money you have

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Speaker 1: on care at the end of your life. And it

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Speaker 1: just seems a little wrong to me too. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: we need to shout out first of all, our buddy

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Speaker 1: Dave Ruse helped us put this together, and he actually

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Speaker 1: did a real deal interview with Dr Muriel Gillick, who

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Speaker 1: was an author of Old and Sick in America colon

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Speaker 1: the Journey through the health Care system and was quite

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Speaker 1: a resource, and that the history of this stuff in

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Speaker 1: this country I think was pretty fascinating. Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: It's super fascinating. Um, and the whole thing kind of

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Speaker 1: started out. Um, you know, when we're talking about nursing

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Speaker 1: homes in particular, but there's just no way we can't

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Speaker 1: talk about other kinds of homes in particular, because nursing

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Speaker 1: homes grew out of this kind of system that developed

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Speaker 1: that seemed to really kind of take shape and take

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Speaker 1: hold around the Second Industrial Revolution, the one that happened

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Speaker 1: here in the States, and because of that, because people

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Speaker 1: were like, you know, I don't feel like swinging the

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Speaker 1: scythe any longer. I'm gonna go into town and see

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Speaker 1: what they have in the way of jobs. So long

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Speaker 1: mom and dad. All of a sudden, Mom and dad

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Speaker 1: were like gulp, because they were on their own, not

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Speaker 1: just you know, one set of parents in particular, but

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Speaker 1: as like a general intergenerational trend where kids were moving

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Speaker 1: away from the farm, and all of a sudden, there

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Speaker 1: weren't multi generational homes like there were before. Because when

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Speaker 1: you have a multigenerational home, you don't have to worry

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Speaker 1: about what's going to happen to you when you get older.

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Speaker 1: Where you're gonna live. You're gonna live in the same

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Speaker 1: house you raised your your Brady, little kid in to

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Speaker 1: take care of you until you die. And that's just

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Speaker 1: the way it was for years and years and years

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Speaker 1: in America. Yeah, there's a stat here. Uh In nineteen hundred,

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Speaker 1: fifty seven percent of adults over sixty five lived in

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Speaker 1: a multigenerational household, and by nineteen eighty eight years later,

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Speaker 1: that went down to seventeen percent. And big reasons for that,

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Speaker 1: Like you were talking about, you know, moving away from

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Speaker 1: the farm. But just nowadays people just move away. I mean,

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Speaker 1: sixty percent of American adults have moved to a completely

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Speaker 1: new community at least once. And as uh Dr Gillick

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Speaker 1: points out, she says, not only are people not living

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Speaker 1: with their adult children, they're not even living near them

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Speaker 1: many times now, Yeah, because they finally wised up and

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Speaker 1: we're like, gosh, I can get away from my kids

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Speaker 1: once and for all now that they're adults. Well, I

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Speaker 1: think it's more like the kids are like, hey, gee,

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Speaker 1: I want to go live in wherever the heck I

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Speaker 1: want to and we'll just think of a plan for

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Speaker 1: my parents at home. My generation doesn't have any hangups

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Speaker 1: about guilt or morality, you know. But the thing is,

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Speaker 1: it's not just the kids moving away. Like my grandmother

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Speaker 1: moved far away. She moved to Florida, she moved to Arizona.

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Speaker 1: She moved. She was like, so long, everybody, I got

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Speaker 1: this UM. But she was very fortunate that she had.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that UM nursing homes exist for

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Speaker 1: is to take care of people who don't got it,

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Speaker 1: who either don't have family, who don't have the money

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Speaker 1: to hire people to take care of them, who don't

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Speaker 1: have the money to go live in and you know,

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Speaker 1: say like assisted living or something. UM. That's what nursing

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Speaker 1: homes have kind of evolved to take care of. And

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Speaker 1: in that sense, they're actually directly related to what came

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Speaker 1: what were originally called alms houses or county houses or

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Speaker 1: poor houses, which if you were old and you didn't

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Speaker 1: have anyone to take care of you, in like the

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Speaker 1: late eighteenth early nineteenth century in America, you could go

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Speaker 1: to like a farm that the county maintained and there

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Speaker 1: would be a bed there for you, and um, you

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Speaker 1: would be housed with a bunch of different people with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of different conditions, and the one thing that

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Speaker 1: you all had in common was that society didn't quite

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Speaker 1: know what to do with you. Yeah. So I mean

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Speaker 1: it could range from people who had no living family

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Speaker 1: two and just you know, needed care that had nothing

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Speaker 1: else wrong with them except just being old and needing

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Speaker 1: care and having no one around, uh, to people that

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Speaker 1: were mentally ill, maybe people who were suffering from dementia,

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Speaker 1: or people who were alcoholics or drug addicts, and like

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Speaker 1: you said, they you could get a bed, but there

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Speaker 1: were no doctors, there were no nurses, you couldn't get

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Speaker 1: medical care. Uh. And that was sort of the the

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Speaker 1: beginnings of of the shame almost if you want to

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Speaker 1: look at it that way. Yeah, kind of. But it

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Speaker 1: does say something that society did say, we have a

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Speaker 1: responsibility of people. We can't just be like, well, there's

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Speaker 1: a corn field for you to go lay in until

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Speaker 1: you die of exposure, good luck, you know, Like there

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Speaker 1: was a bed that was provided. As meager and horrific

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Speaker 1: as that whole thing was, it was at at least

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Speaker 1: an experiment or an attempt to do something. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: you know, the next big change happened, um, sort of

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Speaker 1: midway through the nineteenth century when uh, sort of around

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Speaker 1: the time in the Civil War, we started getting our

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Speaker 1: first big hospitals like medical hospitals, public medical hospitals and

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Speaker 1: the big cities around the country, and they, you know,

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Speaker 1: they were sort of the the beginnings of modern um

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Speaker 1: large scale public healthcare. And here's the thing, though, is

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Speaker 1: they were back then they focused on acute care. So

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Speaker 1: if you again were a senior and you uh they

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Speaker 1: called them old chronics, like you had maybe a chronic

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Speaker 1: condition and no one to take care of you, then

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Speaker 1: you uh, basically you were too too dependent to go

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Speaker 1: to one of these places because it was a hospital,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, you can't stay here, right because even

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Speaker 1: though you know you're called an old chronic, you might

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Speaker 1: not have anything wrong with you aside from being really old,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you can't make it to the bathroom very

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Speaker 1: easily something like that, but not necessarily anything that a

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Speaker 1: hospital could treat you for. It was just they had

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Speaker 1: a bed about hospitals. Very quickly, we're like, we can't,

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Speaker 1: like this isn't working. You're gonna stay here indefinitely and

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Speaker 1: there's really nothing wrong with you. We gotta find a

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Speaker 1: place for you. And so about that time, some charities,

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Speaker 1: especially either ethnic or religious based charities like the um

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Speaker 1: Baptists or the German Aid Society was was a big

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Speaker 1: one in Boston. I think, um, the German Ladies Aid

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Speaker 1: Society of Boston. I'm sorry. Um, they kind of said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we we have members who are uh

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Speaker 1: they're members of our church or you know, they're German,

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Speaker 1: they're part of our community and they don't have anybody,

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Speaker 1: so we we need to make sure that they're taken

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Speaker 1: care of. And they actually started founding what we're called

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Speaker 1: old age homes, which is basically they would get like

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Speaker 1: a large home and um kind of outfit it with

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Speaker 1: different Each room was like a different room for a

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Speaker 1: different tenant, and they would take care of like old

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Speaker 1: widows basically who didn't have the money or the children

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Speaker 1: to take care of them. Yeah. But specifically, what they

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Speaker 1: deemed as worthy poor uh, And here's what differentiated them

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Speaker 1: from the almshouses was, uh, if you were worthy poor

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Speaker 1: and you know that's in air quotes, that meant that

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Speaker 1: you were the wife of of a man who who

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Speaker 1: worked hard all his life but never made a lot

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Speaker 1: of money, maybe worked at a shipyard or just had

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Speaker 1: sort of a very low paying, blue collar but respectable job,

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Speaker 1: but certainly not the kind of dough to pay for

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Speaker 1: like private nursing homes or anything like that, but not

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Speaker 1: alcoholic or drug addict or you know, there was no UM.

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Speaker 1: They didn't like force a shame attachment to it. So

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Speaker 1: these widows who were you know, in their sixties or seventies,

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Speaker 1: depending on you know, how their husband lived their lives,

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Speaker 1: They're like, I've been morphine free since seventy three, so

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Speaker 1: let me in. Uh. They didn't have these big pensions

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Speaker 1: or anything because of the jobs their husbands had. So

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Speaker 1: they were taken into one of these homes like a

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Speaker 1: Baptist m or something, and they were given to bed

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Speaker 1: and they were given again, not medical care, but they

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Speaker 1: were at least given meals in a bed. Right. Um.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times they were expected to kind of

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Speaker 1: pay for their their room and board. Um. It was

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Speaker 1: kind of like a needs based sliding scale. I got

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Speaker 1: the impression some of them, UM just straight up said hey,

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Speaker 1: give us five hundred dollars. At the time, I think

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Speaker 1: around nine or uh, late nineteenth century, I don't remember

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Speaker 1: exactly when it was, um, the Winchester Home for Aged

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Speaker 1: Women in Massachusetts, the Winchester Mystery House. I looked it up.

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Speaker 1: I was like, is that the same one? But it was.

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Speaker 1: It was bequeathed by a Lucy Winchester, who I couldn't

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Speaker 1: find anything about. But it's not the same person. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people in the house, you would, um, although

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Speaker 1: you gain a lot more ghosts, it's true. But um,

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Speaker 1: they said, you pay us five hundred dollars. So this

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Speaker 1: is in nineteen o four. You pay us five hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars and you can stay here for the rest of

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Speaker 1: your life. And five hundred dollars back then was worth

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Speaker 1: about fifteen thousand today, And exactly I was thinking about that.

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Speaker 1: It's a bit of a gamble on both sides. But

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Speaker 1: it's a bit like insurance. It's like some sort of

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Speaker 1: long term care um insurance where you're like, okay, let's

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Speaker 1: stretch my five dollars as far as I can go,

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Speaker 1: or you know, you could die two days after they

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Speaker 1: still kept your five hundred dollars. But then hopefully it

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Speaker 1: was used to make life better for the other people

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Speaker 1: who's who had used up their five hundred dollars long ago.

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Speaker 1: You know. So there was this kind of idea that

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Speaker 1: if you could pay for it, you should pay for it.

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Speaker 1: And then as time went on, it was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you just you know, you sold your house. We need

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Speaker 1: that money if you're gonna stay here, And people would

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Speaker 1: take in more and more money from that person's estate

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Speaker 1: um as they were alive to take care of them.

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Speaker 1: And this was starting in like the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: twentieth century into the nineteenth century. So that's a very

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Speaker 1: long tradition of extracting everything from old people as they're

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Speaker 1: dying to to pay for their care. And I'm got you,

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Speaker 1: I'm bothered by that. Yeah, I mean the question became U,

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Speaker 1: not how how much is it for your care facility,

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Speaker 1: and it's more like how much you got how much

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Speaker 1: you got here? Graham by the ankles and turn them

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Speaker 1: upside down, or if they you know, if they weren't charging.

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Speaker 1: There was the expectation that they didn't need so much

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Speaker 1: care that they couldn't also contribute, like here, we got

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Speaker 1: a room for you. We'll feed you, but you gotta

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Speaker 1: make your bed, and you gotta clean your room and

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Speaker 1: maybe help keep the property up. So I got the

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Speaker 1: idea that these were people who, like I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: a senior widow who just didn't have anywhere else to

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Speaker 1: go and otherwise was doing okay, yeah, but forced to

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Speaker 1: make knockoff Gucci wallets during craft arts and craft. Should

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Speaker 1: we take a break? All right, I got a Gucci

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Speaker 1: wallet to work on myself. Okay, So we've got alms

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Speaker 1: houses are still around. They have they stayed around until

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Speaker 1: like the nineteen forties. From what I could see, these

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Speaker 1: county houses poor houses, um, and then alongside of those

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Speaker 1: you've got old age homes. But then, um, the government

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Speaker 1: was kind of like, we can do we can do

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Speaker 1: better than this. New York itself, I think, became the

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Speaker 1: first state in the United States to say, um, it's

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Speaker 1: a ten ninety it's modern era, we need to do

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Speaker 1: more to take care of like our our elderly and

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Speaker 1: in particular are mentally infirm. Um. They and they that

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Speaker 1: state made a commitment to take care for the state,

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Speaker 1: to take responsibility for its mentally ill and that included

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Speaker 1: people with dementia of all sorts, which they would have

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Speaker 1: called senility back then. Um. And so that was kind

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Speaker 1: of like the first entree of the state into caring

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Speaker 1: for elderly people. And that actually kind of opened a

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Speaker 1: bit of a floodgate. I think, um. Other states started

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Speaker 1: to kind of follow suit, but it was like a

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Speaker 1: it was a step in a really dark direction, because

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Speaker 1: by World War One, if you were elderly, especially if

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Speaker 1: you had some sort of um declined, some sort of

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Speaker 1: cognitive decline from age, there was a really good chance

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Speaker 1: that you were in a mental asylum um with everybody else.

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Speaker 1: And in a lot of cases, I think even if

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Speaker 1: you were just elderly, you would find yourself in a

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Speaker 1: mental asylum in that right, Yeah, I mean absolutely. So

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Speaker 1: you've got a situation where the states start to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we need to take care of our mentally ill, but

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Speaker 1: seniors just started getting kind of lumped in if they

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Speaker 1: didn't have anywhere else to go. So you might have

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Speaker 1: you know, someone's someone's grandmother who just didn't have family

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Speaker 1: and who was really doing okay upstairs and and was

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Speaker 1: in pretty good health, might find themselves in, like you said,

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Speaker 1: a mental hospital with people with severe mental illness. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's a couple of stats here that

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Speaker 1: Dave dug up by there were more elderly Americans and

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Speaker 1: mental hospitals than in those almhouses and the price that

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Speaker 1: old age homes combined. And he mentioned one in particular,

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Speaker 1: Chicago State Hospital, which was a mental hospital in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, of the patients there were quote aged or

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Speaker 1: infirm that had no other underlying psychosis or mental health condition. Right.

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Speaker 1: So that's a really dangerous place for old people to

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Speaker 1: be because if you act up, they can put you

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Speaker 1: on medications, they can give you, um, the hydrotherapy treatment,

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Speaker 1: they can do all sorts of stuff to you because

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Speaker 1: you're in a mental hospital. And I think it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like one of those things where, um, if you're

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Speaker 1: a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Well, if you're

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Speaker 1: a nineteen thirties old timing psychiatrist, everything looks like a um,

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Speaker 1: a mental condition, a mental condition, right, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna treat all of the people the same way.

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Speaker 1: And so luckily Francis Perkins arrived on the scene around

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Speaker 1: this time. So World War One is when old people

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Speaker 1: really started to get shuffled off to mental hospitals by

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Speaker 1: the government. Swoop James like, whoa, whoa, this is way wrong,

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Speaker 1: Like we need just because these people are old doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that they're um, they're mentally ill. So let's extract

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Speaker 1: them from that environment and figure out if we can

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Speaker 1: do something else. And thanks to Social Security that that

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Speaker 1: really began to change. Fairly quickly. Yeah, so this is

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty five. Again, you mentioned the great Francis Perkins.

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Speaker 1: If you didn't listen to that episode, go listen to it.

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Speaker 1: It's fantastic out the Social Security Act. Um. Basically like

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Speaker 1: when we think of Social Security now, we think of

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Speaker 1: the program where you pay in your whole life from

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Speaker 1: your paycheck and then when you retired you get a

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Speaker 1: monthly income and if you work longer than your checks

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Speaker 1: are gonna be bigger. Um. I started working when I

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Speaker 1: was thirteen, so imagine I'm gonna be rolling in dough.

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Speaker 1: You're always boasting about that of hearing about that about

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Speaker 1: my thirteen year old bus boy job. Yes, it's a

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Speaker 1: title Max. Now, by the way, yeah dry Max, got

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Speaker 1: your money, your mind, real money. Oh man, that's some

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Speaker 1: good free advertising. Yeah. I drove. I drive by there

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Speaker 1: on the way to my mom's and Emily's parents house sometimes,

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Speaker 1: and I always pointed out to my daughter and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: that's the barbecue restaurant I worked at. It's now a

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Speaker 1: title Max. Is that the one where the guy put

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Speaker 1: his foot in the Brunswick sto? Yeah? God, I wonder

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Speaker 1: where that guy is now. Randy, he's in he's in

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not even going to guess the

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Speaker 1: feeling Randy's in prison, do you think so? I mean,

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Speaker 1: he saw him do a lot worse than put his

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Speaker 1: foot in the Brunswicks, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Oh jeez, I don't put My mind is rased at

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Speaker 1: life behind bars and I'm not laughing at that. It's

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Speaker 1: it's very sad. But Randy, you know, he made his

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Speaker 1: own decisions. That reminds remember Randy the hippie from MTV

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Speaker 1: and like the late eighties, early nineties, No, he ran

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Speaker 1: for president. He was like just this total weirdo burnout

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Speaker 1: who was yeah, who looked today like he could have

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Speaker 1: been in l m f A. Oh okay, Like really

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Speaker 1: he dressed like that, but this is like decades before.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I remember like he he like ran for

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Speaker 1: president and I think he lost and he's like, I've

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Speaker 1: made my bed now I must lie in it. I'll

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Speaker 1: never forget that. For some reason, I thought it was hilarious.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that was Randy. Well, I mean maybe it

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Speaker 1: was d Randy Brunswich, it was the Rands. What I'm saying, um, so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that was old age insurance is what they called

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Speaker 1: it originally. But then there was also Old Age Assistance

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Speaker 1: oh a A, which was you're gonna get payments when

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Speaker 1: you're older, even if you didn't work, which was a

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Speaker 1: big deal because so many women were not allowed to

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Speaker 1: work and have jobs, so like what were they going

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Speaker 1: to do? They're like, say, hey, you didn't pay anything

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Speaker 1: in sorry, you just raised your kids and grandkids. That's

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Speaker 1: a great that's a great point. I think we still

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Speaker 1: do that today though, unfortunately, but at least women can

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Speaker 1: actually work in the workforce if they want to. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: if they if they stay home and raise kids, then

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Speaker 1: they're still treated the same way, which is pretty shameful.

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Speaker 1: But I get your point. And the point is is

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Speaker 1: that we needed to be able to UM take care

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Speaker 1: of people who hadn't necessarily worked in the workforce and

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Speaker 1: paid into Social Security, and then also we had to

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Speaker 1: offset that first basically generation that we're like, Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: the first ones nobody's been paying in, but why do

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Speaker 1: we Why are we the ones who have to pay

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Speaker 1: him but we get nothing from it? So the Old

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Speaker 1: Age Assistance the o a A really helped with that

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Speaker 1: UM and I guess that's kind of gone the way

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Speaker 1: of disco because the only thing I know about is

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Speaker 1: the Old Age insurance that's still around, and I know

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Speaker 1: they don't call it that any longer, but that Old

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Speaker 1: Age assistance where it's like, I guess that would be Medicaid, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think so okay, So so we'll and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: a lot more about Medicaid and medicare. Just put a

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Speaker 1: button in that all of you bureaucrat walks. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: love it. Yeah, but uh, you know, FDR, this is

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Speaker 1: when things really changed. And the reason we're talking about

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Speaker 1: social security and stuff like this is because it really

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Speaker 1: it's sort of laid out the roadmap for what was

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Speaker 1: going to happen and how we cared for our grandparents

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Speaker 1: and what kind of places they were going to be.

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Speaker 1: So because he went in there with a new deal

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Speaker 1: and he was like these all houses are terrible. He's like,

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Speaker 1: we need to get rid of these. And he said

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Speaker 1: in these state mental hospitals, they're overburdened. And that's not

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Speaker 1: right either. So here's what I'll do. Part of the

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Speaker 1: o A A the Old Age Assistants. A big provision

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Speaker 1: here is that you can't um you can't get any

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Speaker 1: of that money if you're living in a public institution

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Speaker 1: like an alms house or like a state mental hospital,

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Speaker 1: No money come in your way. No. So suddenly the

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Speaker 1: people who were stuck in state mental hospitals or alms

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Speaker 1: houses not only were like, oh, well I could get

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Speaker 1: out of here. Now I have the funds to get

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Speaker 1: out of here and go somewhere better. And this led

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Speaker 1: to a huge boom in the growth of private um

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Speaker 1: uh living facilities for the elderly. Yeah. I think that

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Speaker 1: was the big change. I mean, surely people were like, great,

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Speaker 1: I can get out of here, but I think people

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Speaker 1: saw dollar signs said wait a minute, I can get

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Speaker 1: paid by the government to take in these people and

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Speaker 1: take care of them, right, sometimes directly get paid by

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Speaker 1: the government. Yeah. That was kind of like an amendment

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Speaker 1: that they made later on where it was like, um yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that incentivized it even more. It's like, well, we'll

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Speaker 1: pay you directly. There's not even this person as gonna

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Speaker 1: have to be involved. Just take care of them, you know,

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Speaker 1: follow these guidelines and we'll send you this check every month.

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Speaker 1: And the people is there any money left over for me?

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Speaker 1: You know? And no, no, no, no, this just don't

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Speaker 1: ask any questions. It's as a matter of fact, now

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Speaker 1: that you bring it up, do you have any money,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna give it to them first before we give you.

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Speaker 1: There's a balance on your account, sir. So. Um, this

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Speaker 1: is kind of how it went for like the first

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Speaker 1: you know, fifteen twenty years after so Security Act was

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Speaker 1: introduced in nineteen thirty five, where um it fueled this

405
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Speaker 1: boom of retirement homes. Basically the retirement home into Tree

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Speaker 1: found its its birth there. And then about fifteen years

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Speaker 1: after the government was like, you know what, we've been

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Speaker 1: sinking a lot of money into this, maybe we should

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Speaker 1: look around and see if any of these places are

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Speaker 1: any good. And they found that no, in a lot

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Speaker 1: of cases they weren't really good. There was, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you if you converted an old Victorian mansion into

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Speaker 1: an old age home with a dozen rooms, you probably

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Speaker 1: didn't add a fire exit onto every room and fire

415
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Speaker 1: stairs on the second and third floor. Um, there's probably

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Speaker 1: not sprinkler system because they weren't very prevalent by that time,

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Speaker 1: and so if there was a fire, all of these uh,

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Speaker 1: the dozen ages and infirm people who lived there were

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Speaker 1: going to die in a fire. Um that was the

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Speaker 1: one big one that they turned up that came out

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Speaker 1: of these early investigations into into what came to be

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Speaker 1: called nursing homes. Yeah, so this is when Congress steps

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Speaker 1: in again, like you said, about fifteen to twenty years

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Speaker 1: later in the nineteen fifties, and said, all right, here's

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Speaker 1: the deal. If you're getting this dough from us, we

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Speaker 1: need to regulate, um, what's going on there, and they

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Speaker 1: need to be safe. And a lot of these mom

428
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: and pops that, like you said, converted an old house,

429
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: they couldn't make those upgrades. You can't just slap on

430
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: a fire escaped to an old Victorian. I guess you could,

431
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: but it wouldn't look that great or probably work that well.

432
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: And so a lot of these smaller ones floundered and

433
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, and this is things where things

434
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: really start to change. There's a big market for just

435
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: basically I don't even know if I would call it

436
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: the corporatization yet, but maybe to a certain degree, these

437
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 1: bigger facilities for residents that had this money that could

438
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: go straight to them. And uh so these sort of

439
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 1: larger places that weren't individual houses started popping up. Yeah, well,

440
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: that's like an ongoing and recurring theme in a big

441
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: criticism among conservatives of big government or government regulation is

442
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: that it homogenizes things because usually the mom and pop operations,

443
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: even if they are well meaning and not nefarious, like

444
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 1: they don't have money to add those fire exits on.

445
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: But say like a corporation that's going to own several

446
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 1: of these things, they can build new ones with all

447
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 1: the modern fire exits and fire sprinklers. And so those

448
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: bigger corporations start owning more and more and more, and

449
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: by building more and more and more, they're not gonna

450
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: make each one like really unique and and embedded in

451
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: the community. They're going to plunk down the same one

452
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: in every place they build one. And so there's this

453
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: homogenization that occurs as a result of that. And that's

454
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: exactly what happened with what came to be called nursing homes,

455
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: which really started to find their advent in the nineteen

456
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: fifties from these reforms where the government was like, you

457
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: guys need to be able to do this, this, and this, um,

458
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: we're gonna assign the Public Health Service to to lay

459
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: out guidelines. The Public Health Service knows about regulating hospitals,

460
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: so they really added onto that homogenization, this this underlying

461
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 1: medicalization of caring for older people, which makes sense. You know,

462
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: you think of older people, olderally people, senior adult you think, gosh,

463
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: the you know, the body is starting to wear down.

464
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: There have they have all these conditions or whatever, So

465
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: it makes sense that you a couple hospitalization or medicalization

466
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: with that. But that's not always the case. And the

467
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: problem is, as it became the case, whether you needed

468
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: it or not, that was the kind of place you

469
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: lived was basically a bland institutional extension of a hospital. Yeah,

470
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 1: I mean it's not like in Uh. I kept thinking

471
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: of the movie Say Anything when I was researching this

472
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: because that was a prominent storyline in that movie. I

473
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 1: never saw it. You never saw Say Anything. I didn't

474
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: do you wonder what happens every time a guy in

475
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: a trench coat holds up a boom box over his head. So,

476
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you need the cultural reference. Yeah,

477
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,199
Speaker 1: of course, I just wondered up all this time. You're like,

478
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: what is the deal with this boom box? Yeah, it's

479
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: like a reference to Kevin Smith and Clark. Okay, sure,

480
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: exactly now Ione Sky's father, the late great John Mahoney.

481
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: Was he ran a mom and pop nursing home. Yes,

482
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: and was in spoiler coming if you haven't seen a

483
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: thirty something year old movie. Uh, he was found to

484
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: be ripping them off and that was a big sort

485
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: of subplot in that movie. All I heard was that

486
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 1: was a big subplot in that movie. Very good, but uh,

487
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: say anything aside. They um, like you said, became more

488
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: hospitalized for lack of a better word, And if you

489
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: went to one of them back then, there was very

490
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 1: little to differentiate it from a hospital, from the central

491
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: nurses station to the cafeteria food. I remember going to

492
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 1: visit my my grandmother on my my paternal grandmother, who

493
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: lived to be a hundred and one before my dad

494
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 1: and his wife took her in. She was in one

495
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: of these places and uh, or actually maybe it was

496
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: the other way around. She went afterward. But it was

497
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: it was terrible, you know, it was awful and very

498
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: very sad. And if I was not a young man

499
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: with nothing, you know, nothing going on in my life,

500
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: I might have done something about it, but you know,

501
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do back then. You would

502
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: have opened all the doors and been like, go free,

503
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: go free. I would have ripped her out of there

504
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: at least and said come home with me. Yeah, I

505
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: mean they were pretty bad, especially by the time I'm

506
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: guessing you were there in the eighties or nineties. Maybe

507
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: this was in would have been the nineties. Yeah, So

508
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: in the fifties, in the mid fifties, even these things

509
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: made a little more sense at the very least they

510
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: were newer. By the seventies and eighties, they were so

511
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: bad that we had a reform Act that kicked in seven,

512
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: which is basically like this place is wrong, and like

513
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: maybe we don't know what to do or replace him with,

514
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: but here are some things that that you have to

515
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: treat these people with, like dignity. They have to be

516
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: able to have a say in what they wear or

517
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: what they um, what they eat, or what they do

518
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: during the day. And it really kind of got off

519
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: the rails within a couple of decades after their advent.

520
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 1: The thing is is like I was saying, nobody knows

521
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: what to do about nursing homes, and we'll talk a

522
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: little more about that later, but just just kind of

523
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: put a pin in that nursing homes were not not great,

524
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: and they're still not great. Yeah, should we take a

525
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: break and then come back and talk about medicaid and

526
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: medicare and how that figures in. Yeah, all right, Well

527
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: we'll be right back with those two tiny little things

528
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: right after this. Alright, So we promised talk of Medicare

529
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: and medicaid, and I think Dave kind of put it

530
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: really on the nose here he said no to government

531
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: programs have shaped a nursing home care model over the

532
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: last fifty years more than than those two programs. UH.

533
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: Created in nineteen Lyndon Johnson amended the Social Security Act.

534
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: And UH, if you still get confused, if you're like

535
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: a young hip and heppen and millennial and you don't

536
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: know what those two words mean and you get them

537
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: mixed up. Medicare is health insurance universal, one might dare

538
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: say socialized medicine. That's a red herring for Americans over

539
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: sixty five. Medicaid is long term care for Americans lower

540
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: income status. That's right, Yeah, and it can. You don't

541
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: necessarily have to be elderly for um Medicaid. I believe. Yeah, Medicare,

542
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: you do Medicaid. You could be lower income and have

543
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: a lifelong disability and you'd be eligible for Medicaid too. Yeah,

544
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: so Medicare again, this is if you're over sixty five,

545
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: it's gonna pay for acute medical care when you're in

546
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: a hospital. But if you need something long term UM

547
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: kind of like what we're talking about at the beginning,

548
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: then uh, it won't pay for that. Like you can't

549
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: just say all right, I'm gonna go to a nursing

550
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: home now and it's gonna just pay for that in full,

551
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: but Medicaid would. And for a while everybody's like, okay, well,

552
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: we'll just take Medicaid. This is UM after Lyndon Johnson's

553
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: Great Society in UM. So they were like, this is fine.

554
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: And then somebody realized that Medicare pays way more than

555
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: Medicaid does, and so all of the bottom line people said,

556
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: how can we can we do this? What are we

557
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: gonna do? So they read the the act um and

558
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: they found that, uh, there was language in there that

559
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: says Medicare will pay for uh stay up to a

560
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: hundred days in a skilled nursing facility UM after three

561
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: days or more of treatment in the hospital. And so

562
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: all of those nursing homes were like, well, we have

563
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: we have nurses, we have doctors. Well, let's just rebrand

564
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: ourselves as skilled nursing facilities. And so there was a huge,

565
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: massive transition from nursing homes where you would go live

566
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: potentially the rest of your life and there were not

567
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: nurses and doctors and all of that. Um, and this

568
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: was your new home until you died. To you guys

569
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: got to go because we're now a skilled nursing facility,

570
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: which means the most you could stay as a hundred days,

571
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: but we're gonna make way more off of flipping people

572
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: every hundred days than we would because Medicare is gonna

573
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: pay then we would letting you stay here as a

574
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: nursing home because Medicaids paying for that. That, like I said,

575
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: just caused a huge change in the industry. Yeah, and Americans,

576
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: uh in the eighties and nineties, UM, generally we're like,

577
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: you know what, we need better um facilities and more

578
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: comfortable facilities that feel more like uh, feel less like

579
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: a hospital and more like an apartment, let's say. And

580
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: that was sort of the birth of what's known now

581
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: as assisted living facilities, where they're different levels of care

582
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: that you can pay for um. And the idea is

583
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: that if you go to one of those, you have

584
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: a little bit more independence. Um, you have a little

585
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: bit more uh say, and like how your day goes,

586
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: um like and that's just at a just like a

587
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: daily schedule level. Um. And you know that it's like

588
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: a little more social like it it's it's sort of

589
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: like you what you I mean. The best ones are

590
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: like what you would hope they would be, which is

591
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: a place for your grandparents to go hang out and

592
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: hang out with other seniors who and and you know,

593
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 1: have a social life and tell stories and be with

594
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: one another and not just sort of be in a

595
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: hospital room. Right, So, like if you can't just stay

596
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: in your house or something as you're getting older, this

597
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: is a real alternative for you. Um. And because there's

598
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 1: different levels of care, you can age in place there,

599
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: like you can just keep getting older and older and

600
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 1: then they'll start, you know, adding greater and greater layers

601
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: of care. The thing is is assisted living is expensive

602
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: and it's outside of the federal purview. Like the Feds

603
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: went all in on nursing homes. They regulate nursing homes,

604
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: they don't regulate assisted care. Um. They they will pay

605
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: for nursing homes, they won't pay for assisted care. Um,

606
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: there's a lot of differences, and they're almost they're they're

607
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: very much intertwined nursing homes and assisted living, but um,

608
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: they're very they're very separate as far as the US

609
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: government is considered. There are two different things, and the

610
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: government recognizes nursing homes. Um. The thing is, it's like

611
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: you were saying, in the eighties and nineties, people were like,

612
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: we we don't want to live in nursing homes anymore,

613
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: we want to move over here. And all the nursing

614
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: homes were like, fine, we're skilled nursing facilities now, and

615
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: we can get some of that sweet sweet medicare money.

616
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: So if you did you see that stat Yeah, sixty

617
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: three there were five hundred and seventy thousand skilled nursing

618
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: beds into there were one point two millions. So they

619
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: definitely were like, oh, that that money needs to become

620
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: in our way exactly so, and that's exactly what they did.

621
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: They said, you know, we're we're skilled nursing facilities now,

622
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: and you know they probably are owned by the hospitals

623
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: where you do three days in there and then get

624
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,839
Speaker 1: moved to the skilled nursing facility and then maybe if

625
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: it's a large enough group, they might own an assisted

626
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: living facility to that you can say move into after

627
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: that hundred days or something. Um. The thing is is

628
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: the assisted living is great. Um. It can be really

629
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: really good, and nursing homes can be good too. There's

630
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: not like all nursing homes aren't bad, and they all

631
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: of them have like their their upsides. Like you were saying,

632
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: assisted living is very social. There's probably you know, a

633
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: lot more going on, a lot more activity, just because

634
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 1: a lot of the people who live there these days

635
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 1: are going to be more active still, whereas in nursing homes.

636
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 1: It's now the people who live in nursing homes tend

637
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: to be much sicker, more infirm. Um, But there's still

638
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: socialization where there's not necessarily if you just you know,

639
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: live alone your house and somebody comes by a couple

640
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: of times a week. So there are definitely good things

641
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 1: to nursing homes. The problem is is se of them

642
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: are for profit. Some of them are owned by um

643
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: private equity firms. We shouldn't let private private equity firms

644
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: anywhere near the aged population. Ever in any country. That's

645
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: just a terrible combination. And apparently, in fact, their studies

646
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: that show when private equity firms take over nursing homes

647
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: there is a measurable decline in health outcomes for the

648
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: residents because their whole thing is there they you know,

649
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: they're dedicated to making you know, corporate profits, and so

650
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: you've cut costs and you cut services, and you just

651
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: approach things differently than you should. And that's kind of

652
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,919
Speaker 1: like this evolution that's going on now, is we we've

653
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: been providing services to elderly people as they age, as

654
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: if their customers where instead we should be providing care.

655
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: And those are two different things. Even though from you know,

656
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: a few paces back they might look similar, they're not.

657
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: They're different. And that's kind of the push that we're

658
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 1: going toward now. Yeah, So where we find ourselves today

659
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: statistically is uh. And I was kind of surprised about this.

660
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: I had a feeling that more Americans were in these

661
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,959
Speaker 1: facilities than I thought. Um, I guess it's a little

662
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: bit heartening to hear the numbers. Um, there are about

663
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: one point four million Americans in residential nursing homes and

664
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: then another one point seven million cycling through those skilled

665
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: nursing nursing facilities if they have like a surgery or

666
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: an illness or something they're recovering from or rehabbing from,

667
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: which is only about four point five percent of all

668
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 1: Americans over sixty five and ten of all Americans over

669
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: eighty five. I thought it would be higher than that. Um,

670
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: you know, if you want to look at the downside, though,

671
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: is one big reason why. Maybe the cost um It

672
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: depends on where you are, of course, but if you

673
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: um are in a private room at a nursing home,

674
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 1: and I guess was this in Georgia, Yeah, two hundred

675
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: and thirty five dollars a night in New York, that's

676
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: about four hundred dollars a night and change on average

677
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: a night like at that point, just move them into

678
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: the w Hotel, right, pretty pretty much. Yeah. The only

679
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: thing is that they don't have nurses at the the

680
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: W Hunt. But that's a lot of money, man, And

681
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: you can just get bled dry at the end of

682
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: your life. Well you do. And as a matter of fact,

683
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: to pay four a place like that a nursing home,

684
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: Medicaid says you have to have paid in which basically says,

685
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 1: you need to have if you if you don't own

686
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: your house anymore, you have to um give the proceeds

687
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: from your house. Um. Yeah, you have to liquidate your

688
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: your your inheritance, you have to you have to pay

689
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: down to usually something like I saw like maybe seven

690
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a month income is the cut off. Anything

691
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: over that, and you have to be contributing. Um. Anything

692
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: under that, the Medicaid will kick in and pay the

693
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: place directly for letting you stay there. Um. But the

694
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 1: thing is, it's like, of course, the the better alternative

695
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: is assisted living. Some state Medicaid programs will pay or

696
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: help pay for assisted living. But for the most part,

697
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: if you're if you are paying for if you're living

698
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: in an assisted living facility, you might have a reverse

699
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: mortgage on your house. You are probably you've liquidated all

700
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: of your um, your investments. Um, you're you're you're paying

701
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: for it out of pocket. In the United States for

702
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: the good kind of retirement home. Yeah, and you know

703
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: there are people out there that are trying to further

704
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: reform uh what these places look like. Uh. There's a

705
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 1: gentleman named Dr Bill Thomas, who is a geriatrician who

706
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,919
Speaker 1: has something called the Eden Alternative. Um. That is he's

707
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: trying to basically reframe these nursing home uh residents in

708
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: caregivers as care partners. And you know it sounds kind

709
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: of hippie dippy, but um, he wants people to be

710
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: able to still grow in life and to still flourish

711
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: and to still learn. Um, just because you're a senior

712
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you just have to to sit in a

713
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: room and watch Judge Judy or push checkers around a checkerboard. Uh.

714
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: And you know that they're depending on where you are,

715
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: they might be adopting these methodologies of the Eden Alternative

716
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: or UM the greenhouse movement. Another thing he helps spawn,

717
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: which is you're in an in an individualized home. It's

718
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: not a big facility. You got a private room, you've

719
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: got a bathroom, and there's outdoor space for you to

720
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 1: go and garden and to walk around and to again

721
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: try and flourish in your in your last years on

722
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: this planet. Right. Um. And that's a that's there's also

723
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: a push for um for aging in place at home.

724
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah sure, which can be really been official, but again

725
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: it can also be isolating, depending on you know what

726
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: kind of friends or family maybe if you live in

727
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: a condo it would be a little more. But if

728
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: you're living in the house that you spent your entire

729
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: life in and all the neighbors have moved away and

730
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: you don't know anybody anymore, that can be isolating. So

731
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: in that sense, assisted living or even a nursing home

732
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: could be a better alternative. But a lot of people say, no,

733
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: this is my house, I want to stay here at home.

734
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: The problem is is um I've seen I've seen it

735
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: put that medicaid has an institutional bias, which means that

736
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 1: like they'll pay for you to go to a institution

737
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,919
Speaker 1: like the definition of the word institution, they don't really

738
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: pay for you to be able to stay at home.

739
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: Some programs do, but a lot of them don't, even

740
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: if you do want to stay at home, which is

741
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: kind of heartbreaking to me. Yeah, I mean, you know

742
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: Emily's grandmother Mary, who was very popular with the stuff.

743
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: You should know Army as the eldest general. She you know,

744
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: we had to move her out of her house that

745
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: she was in, you know, not our whole life, but

746
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: for a large portion of of her life. But you know,

747
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: it was one of those deals where it's out in

748
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: the middle of the country in Ohio. Uh, there was

749
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: no family close by, there was no hospital close by,

750
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: and it's just it's hard to say it's okay to

751
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 1: stay there, you know. Um. And it was sad when

752
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,919
Speaker 1: she left, but she was also like, no, this is great,

753
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: I'll move in with you guys. Like she didn't kick

754
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: and scream, you know, she was she was willing and

755
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: understood it was the best thing. And uh, you know,

756
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: it's probably one reason why she's pushing one right now.

757
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: I think for sure where she live, she lives with

758
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: Emily's parents and here in Georgia. Now that's great. Yeah, um, well,

759
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, I'm I'm very glad that that worked out

760
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: for um. But I was also looking at like the

761
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: antithesis of that, like what happens in the United States

762
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: to people who who don't have any family, who don't

763
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: have any children, and who don't have any money, like

764
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: what happens to them, And they seemed to be they

765
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: seem to be kind of left on their own, Like

766
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: if they have a house, they're they're probably just to

767
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 1: be left in their house and maybe meals on wheels

768
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: will come by. Um. The County Social Services might be

769
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: able to help them. But this is if they reach

770
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: out for help, if they need assistance, they might not

771
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: get it at home because again, there's a lot of

772
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: UM services that aren't paid for. And if you don't

773
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: I mean money, you're s o l. You could go

774
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: to a UM uh nursing home. But if you don't

775
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: have any ability to pay UM, they can kick you out. Uh,

776
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: they can kick you out for a bunch of different reasons.

777
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: They're The most oppressing thing that I've looked up in

778
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: a while was nursing home evictions, and they there are

779
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 1: there's a there was a loophole that was recently closed

780
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: in two thousand sixteen that said UM, if you if

781
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: the nursing home is not able to UM to offer

782
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: care for the person, then they can be discharged. And

783
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: they use that as like a huge loophole. They'd be like,

784
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: we're sorry, we can't offer you the care you need

785
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: any longer. You have to leave. And you know, if

786
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: you don't have anybody to advocate for you, you're you're

787
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: you know, where are you going to go? And I

788
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: couldn't get a really good answer, but I get the

789
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 1: impression that it's there are it's not huge and rampant,

790
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,439
Speaker 1: but there are a lot of people who are still

791
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: falling through the crack society as they age because we

792
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:23,959
Speaker 1: don't have a robust, nationalized UM plan to care for

793
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: the elderly no matter what. And I thought, well, of

794
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: course the United States is super behind in that respect,

795
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: but apparently we're in line with other countries like Canada.

796
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 1: You think Canada would have like a place for every

797
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: senior and they're all happy and taking care of and

798
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: everybody gets a pet beaver or something like that. Now

799
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: you're on your own, kind of like your state might

800
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: help you out a little bit, the local city might,

801
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: but that's about it. Same with the UK too, which

802
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: I was really surprised because both of them have nationalized medicine. Yeah.

803
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: I will say that this is where UM. Social media

804
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: has been beneficial UM as far as neighborhood and neighbors

805
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: go UM. I mean all the time on our neighborhood pages,

806
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,479
Speaker 1: we see people stepping up, and especially in a place

807
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: like Atlanta, Atlanta, where gentrification has happened, UM, you do

808
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,439
Speaker 1: see a lot of neighbors stepping up to help take

809
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: care of UM, the senior African American community that is um,

810
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: still living in their houses and they haven't been bought

811
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: out for a shamefully low price by a greedy contractor

812
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: to to flip it into a little McMansion. But you

813
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: see it all the time that we work with a

814
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: group called Neighbor in Need that really does great things.

815
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: And aside from just the the official organizations. All the

816
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 1: time you'll see someone that lives next door to someone

817
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: like that. They'll be like, hey, she's having a hard

818
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: time paying her power bill this winter, and you know,

819
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: in an hour it is funded for for the rest

820
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: of the year. Uh, the neighbors step up and and

821
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: pay for her power bill. And it's just it's little

822
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: things like that. But um, these are in unities where

823
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: the houses are close together and people are you know,

824
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: each other's business, like um, Emily's grandmother out there in

825
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: the middle of the country, and a lot of rural

826
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: America like that might not be the case. You might

827
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: not have someone checking up on you, and people you

828
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: know bleeding hearts like you, and I feel that they

829
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: should be taking care of no matter what. You know. Yeah,

830
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: but I mean, isn't that something everybody can get behind?

831
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: You would think so, But that's just not true. I'll

832
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: remind you of our episode on homelessness many years ago. Yeah,

833
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: that one's tough for me to swallow. Those are the

834
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: people who believed in the unworthy poor. Huh, and we're

835
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: to send him to alms houses back in the day. Yeah. Um.

836
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,479
Speaker 1: The good news is if you're looking for a home

837
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: for a family member these days, Medicare dot gov has

838
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: a lot of resources. Oh, I'll tell you another place

839
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: to u S News and World Report is really hot

840
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: and heavy on um an assisted living in nursing home ratings. Yeah,

841
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: nursing home compares another website. And you know there are

842
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,959
Speaker 1: places where you can go to really dig in see

843
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: which ones you feel are a good fit. Uh. They're

844
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: rated on you know, how the people are really doing.

845
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: They're not just like how pretty it is. And if

846
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: you go and visit one, they said to be aware

847
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: of the chandelier effect. Like in fact, if you walk

848
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: in and you see a grand piano and a lobby,

849
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: just turn around and leave. Well yeah, that's I mean,

850
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: that's one of the ways that they get you. You

851
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: want to do a little more digging than just that,

852
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: and you want to talk to residents, You want to

853
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:28,760
Speaker 1: read like actual like, uh, inspections and reports on those places.

854
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: You want to look at stats like how many patients

855
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: had to get were taken to the e er or

856
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: were readmitted in the hospital, how many have bed sores?

857
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: Um any allegations of abuse. Apparently abuse has doubled between

858
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen and two thousand seventeen. Still low. I

859
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: think it was like eight hundred and forty five, which

860
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: is too many, but it's still doubled since two thousand thirteen.

861
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: So you want to like really look for that kind

862
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: of thing. Are they over prescribing medications like for psychosis

863
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: to to people who are um who are problematic when

864
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: you don't really think they're problematic. There's a lot of

865
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: stuff you want to look for that you can look for.

866
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: It's out there. Just do some digging because this is

867
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: somebody you care about, don't forget. Yeah, and we really

868
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: want to point out that, uh, it's easy to zero

869
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: in on things like abuse cases and unnecessary medication. But UM,

870
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,240
Speaker 1: we really salute you if you are the lion share

871
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: of these people, UM that are in nurses that are

872
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: taking care of our seniors and doing a great, great

873
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: job and a very very tough job. Yeah, and one

874
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,479
Speaker 1: of the things actually I saw I'm glad you said

875
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: that was that, um, it's it's a really a thankless

876
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: kind of job because traditionally people who work in elder care,

877
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: like the actual workers are treated like garbage by management.

878
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: It's just like an industry wide problem. And that was

879
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: actually one of those things from the the Eden alternative

880
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: was that workers are treated with the respect that you

881
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: want the workers to treat the patients with like everyone

882
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: is treated with respecting dignity, not just ideally the patients,

883
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: the workers too, because they deserve it for the work

884
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: they're doing. It's amazing. Ah, you got anything else about

885
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: nursing homes, I've got nothing else. We can do. Better

886
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: start thinking about stuff, you know. I mean, you're never

887
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: too young to get a plan in places. That's all

888
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Great point, um, And since I say great point,

889
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 1: it's time for a listener, man. I mean, maybe if

890
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: you're like twenty five, you don't need to be thinking

891
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: about your nursing home options. Okay, but you know what

892
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 1: I mean, well, not necessarily, I'm your parents. I saw

893
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: that of nursing home residents were under sixty five, so

894
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: there are some younger residents in there that I think

895
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: get overlooked a lot, like by us. You know what

896
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 1: you call those people? What the party crowd? That's right, Oh,

897
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: that's gonna be me. Man. What the party crowd at

898
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: the at the nursing home. I'm be mixing it up

899
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: like scat Man Cruthers in the Twilight Zone movie. I

900
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: could see that. Let's go play kick the can. Everyone.

901
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: It's midnight. It's time. It's time to take off that

902
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: gown and live. Good things happen. You're ready, I'm ready, Well,

903
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: bread away. I'm gonna call this one. Uh goots follow up? Okay,

904
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: this is a good one about the great, great Steve Guttenberg.

905
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: I'm hoping someone throws the stuff his way, by the

906
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: way he needs he needs to know. I can feel

907
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: him right now listening to all right this from Dave. Hey, guys,

908
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: on a recent episode, you discuss the episode of Party

909
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 1: Down which the wonderful Steve Guttenberg allows the caters to

910
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: throw a party at his house. You knew this had

911
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: come up before and wondered in what episode in what context.

912
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: By chance, the next day, I was scrolling randomly through

913
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: older episodes and selected Barefoot running uh boy, remember that one.

914
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: When in this episode you started talking about Steve Guttenberg,

915
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: I had an intensely existential experience. I was listen thing

916
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 1: in the present to you talk about Steve Gutenberg in

917
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: the past, having listened in the more recent past to

918
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: you also for more from a more recent past talk

919
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: about Steve Gutenberg, unable to remember the more distant past,

920
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: and which you were talking about Steve Gutenberg, which I

921
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: was now listening to in the present, which knowledge of

922
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 1: the future, in which you would again discussed Steve Gutenberg.

923
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: Steve Gutenberg the center of our cosmos, the nexus around

924
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: which space and time and God swirl until they've become one.

925
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: The answer to this question for which our souls cry out,

926
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: I can only speculate yes. Anyway, I wanted to let

927
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 1: you guys know in which previous episode he featured Steve Gutenberg.

928
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: As to the context, there was none. You you started

929
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: talking about Steve Gutenberg for no discernible reason. It sounds

930
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: like me, which is as it should be, and that

931
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 1: is from Dave. And Dave was very excited that this

932
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 1: was getting read, and he said, to be honest, I

933
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: had a little bit to drink when I wrote that,

934
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 1: and I didn't fully remember the whole experience, so good

935
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: job there go. This would be proud. Yeah, I think

936
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: Dave's going to be part of the mixing it up

937
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 1: crowd at the nursing home to kicking that can you know, Well,

938
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: thanks a lot, Dave. That was pretty great. Um. And

939
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: if you have something great to tell us, especially if

940
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: it's in reference to something we said about something we

941
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: said in the past, we'd love to hear from you.

942
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: You can send us an email to Stuff podcast at

943
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a

944
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. For more podcasts.

945
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: For my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

946
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.