1
00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:04,760
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff from the Science Lab from how stuff

2
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:16,240
Speaker 1: works dot com. Hey guys, and welcome to the podcast.

3
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,639
Speaker 1: This is Alison Matamilth, the science editor at how stuff

4
00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:20,960
Speaker 1: works dot com, and this is Robert Lamb, science writer

5
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,600
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. Today we're talking about contraception,

6
00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 1: specifically immuno contraception. But don't turn off the podcast just yet,

7
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 1: because we're kicking off by talking about out of control rabbits. Yeah,

8
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,520
Speaker 1: so let me lead you into I actually hadn't heard

9
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,400
Speaker 1: of immuno contraception until an article by our very own

10
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,600
Speaker 1: intern marian english Um on five invasive species you should

11
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,000
Speaker 1: know was just written. It's not up yet, so don't

12
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:48,199
Speaker 1: go look for it, but it is gonna be up

13
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,000
Speaker 1: and it is going to be good. Thank you, Marianne.

14
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 1: Be good. So one of the ones that made Marianne's

15
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,959
Speaker 1: list was none other than the rabbit, famed for its

16
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,720
Speaker 1: ability to of course reproduce like matt so they're known

17
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:04,240
Speaker 1: for so all wonder that they're invasive, and especially in

18
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,840
Speaker 1: Australia thanks to one Thomas Austin who purposefully introduced the

19
00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,000
Speaker 1: European rabbit to as a state in Geelong, Australia back

20
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,280
Speaker 1: in the eighteen fifties. What old Thomas didn't know was

21
00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,280
Speaker 1: that handful of rabbits that he purposefully introduced we're going

22
00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:23,240
Speaker 1: to escape their enclosures and multiply to ten billion by wow,

23
00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,360
Speaker 1: that is a lot of rabbits just out of control,

24
00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,160
Speaker 1: rampaging across the countryside. Yeah. So in the article that

25
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,440
Speaker 1: Marianne wrote, she said that the Free Invasion also inspired

26
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,360
Speaker 1: the commonly coined phrase breeding like rabbits. I did not

27
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 1: know that. I knew that it inspired a nineteen sixty

28
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,600
Speaker 1: four novel by the name of the Year of the

29
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,520
Speaker 1: Angry Rabbit Um. It was written by a guy named

30
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: Russell Brandon, and it's it basically had to do with

31
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:56,279
Speaker 1: like giant, giant rabbits rampaging across Australia, tearing up the country,

32
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,240
Speaker 1: and then somehow Australia ends up being the global superpower.

33
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,960
Speaker 1: Is kind of somehow. Yeah, I have not read it,

34
00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,320
Speaker 1: but it's supposedly really tongue in cheek, and it actually

35
00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 1: inspired a movie that more people are probably familiar with,

36
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,600
Speaker 1: called A Night of a Lelipis. And you, of course

37
00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,880
Speaker 1: have seen it, because you've seen every film under the sun. Well, no,

38
00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,480
Speaker 1: I think it used to come on TBS a lot

39
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,120
Speaker 1: or something. But but yeah, it's just like I think

40
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 1: it takes place in Arizona instead of Australia, and it's

41
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,520
Speaker 1: just bunny rabbits running all over like a toy town

42
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 1: and people running in fear and all it's it's it's horrible.

43
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,880
Speaker 1: I highly recommend seeing it. I always think of Danny

44
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,240
Speaker 1: Darko and that crazy rabbit. Yeah, but that was just

45
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,000
Speaker 1: a kind of from the future in a rabbit suit.

46
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,959
Speaker 1: That's time travel. That's a different podcast altogether. That's a

47
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,280
Speaker 1: pretty creepy rabbit though, you have to admit it was.

48
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 1: So Australia knows creepy rabbits, and Australia actually has been

49
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,280
Speaker 1: hit really bad when it comes to invasives. Yeah, they

50
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,800
Speaker 1: have that. They have like a mouse problem on a

51
00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,919
Speaker 1: regular basis. The hordes of mice teeming across the fields,

52
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,800
Speaker 1: eating everything in their path, rampaging into barns. Yeah, they've

53
00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,320
Speaker 1: lost a ton of mammal species um in large Part

54
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,840
Speaker 1: two to invase this. So, of course Australians have triedal

55
00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,320
Speaker 1: sorts of things to control these rabbits. They've erected fences

56
00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 1: that are thousands of miles long. They've used poison. Um,

57
00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,680
Speaker 1: what was that? You're telling me something about the fences?

58
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,400
Speaker 1: The climate right right right? So, Um, the fence on

59
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,079
Speaker 1: one side of the fence, According to this New York

60
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,920
Speaker 1: Times article, Um, the bunnies have eaten all the vegetation.

61
00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,239
Speaker 1: It's parched. It's you know, it's a it's a desolate town.

62
00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,600
Speaker 1: It's parked, it's it's no good. And there are no clouds.

63
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,080
Speaker 1: There's no cloud cover above this particular side of the fence,

64
00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,760
Speaker 1: on the side of the fence where there are no bunnies,

65
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,640
Speaker 1: it's nice and lush and there is cloud cover. So

66
00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 1: the bunnies are affecting climate change. Just to show just

67
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,480
Speaker 1: how out of control it is, it's actually affecting the weather.

68
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,000
Speaker 1: So Australians have tried this fence business. Um, clearly that

69
00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,960
Speaker 1: hasn't been entirely successful. They've they've employed poison, they've also

70
00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,440
Speaker 1: hunted them, and they introduced a seriously infectious viral disease

71
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,800
Speaker 1: by the name of mixomatosis as a biological control agent

72
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,280
Speaker 1: back in the nineteen fifties to control all the huge

73
00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 1: rabbit population. And the thing about the disease was that

74
00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 1: it was host select so it was only going to

75
00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,720
Speaker 1: infect one type of animal and that being the European rabbit.

76
00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,280
Speaker 1: And their efforts were successful. Initially. They wiped out about

77
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,559
Speaker 1: the budding population in Australia only six months after release.

78
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,160
Speaker 1: So that's some pretty good results, right, But inevitably you're

79
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,400
Speaker 1: gonna have some um, some of the rabbits are going

80
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,320
Speaker 1: to be immune, and they're going to survive and they're

81
00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,800
Speaker 1: going to breed, and then what you get what they

82
00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 1: ended up having happened, and that's just now you have

83
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,919
Speaker 1: a new population um um that's out of control and

84
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,359
Speaker 1: all the rabbits are immune to miximatosis. Right, Plus you

85
00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,080
Speaker 1: have a couple of new strains of the virus developing too,

86
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,160
Speaker 1: and maybe a Radiohead song the same name off of

87
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,400
Speaker 1: the the album Held of the Thief, the second best

88
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,000
Speaker 1: Radiohead album in my opinion. So the Australians aren't given

89
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,200
Speaker 1: up on controlling their rabbit population. Their latest effort involves

90
00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,279
Speaker 1: immuno contraception, which is basically birth control for rab its,

91
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,520
Speaker 1: birth control with a twist, and that you can kind

92
00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,600
Speaker 1: of think about immunocontraception as an internal battle between an

93
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,040
Speaker 1: organism's reproductive system and its immune system. Okay, and this

94
00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,599
Speaker 1: is what stirs up the battle between the two. See,

95
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,440
Speaker 1: the animal's immune system is going to manufacture antibodies that

96
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,000
Speaker 1: may then target sperm, eggs, or reproductive hormones, thereby preventing

97
00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,480
Speaker 1: fertilization or the generation of sperm or over. So, an

98
00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,520
Speaker 1: immunocontraceptive could be delivered to a wild animal via a

99
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,919
Speaker 1: deliberately introduced virus, or it could be given in the

100
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,600
Speaker 1: form of a vaccine, and the vaccine might be via

101
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,080
Speaker 1: dart Yeah, they're really um, they're really strong on the

102
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,400
Speaker 1: whole using it like a dart or a dart gun

103
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,640
Speaker 1: kind of a situation. Um, it could be injected manually

104
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,120
Speaker 1: as well, but ideally, especially wild animals, you know, the

105
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 1: farther way you are, the better, Right, You're gonna want

106
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,080
Speaker 1: to minimize contact. Yeah, So I feel like we should

107
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,640
Speaker 1: give just a backup on how a regular birth control

108
00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,840
Speaker 1: pill works. Regular birth control for humans not administered by

109
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,000
Speaker 1: art gun at all. Good point, Robert, good point. So

110
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,599
Speaker 1: human birth control pill relies on hormones generally to prevent

111
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,039
Speaker 1: ovulation or the reaths of eggs. Even if eggs are released,

112
00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:11,920
Speaker 1: they may have a hard time rolling down the old

113
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,120
Speaker 1: Philippian tube and sticking to the wall of the uterus.

114
00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,960
Speaker 1: Pill also makes it harder for sperm to slip past

115
00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,799
Speaker 1: the gate, that being the cervix and into the uterus

116
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,960
Speaker 1: for fertilization. So it's a little bit of a different

117
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,640
Speaker 1: game for a contraceptive versus an immuno contraceptive. And it's

118
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,239
Speaker 1: it's really interesting that the number of animal welfare groups

119
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,360
Speaker 1: are really into this, um, namely the Humane Society of

120
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,839
Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah. Um, they've been pushing up, pushing

121
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,640
Speaker 1: to use it for dear population in the United States

122
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,279
Speaker 1: because we have quite a deer problem in many areas. Um,

123
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,520
Speaker 1: what's the area up in New York? Fire Island? Have

124
00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,640
Speaker 1: you been there? I'm not sure you've traveled. I have

125
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,719
Speaker 1: not been to Fire Island. So Fire Island, for those

126
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,840
Speaker 1: of you guys who have seen Jersey Shore, is one

127
00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,640
Speaker 1: of those places where people like to go the Hamptons

128
00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 1: or the Jersey Shore or Fire Island for the weekend.

129
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,920
Speaker 1: So you get a bunch of New Yorkers rolling out

130
00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,279
Speaker 1: of Manhattan and taking over the island and partying and

131
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,600
Speaker 1: going to the beach and women in the face, right,

132
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:12,720
Speaker 1: is that what they do on Jersey Shore. That's the

133
00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,400
Speaker 1: only thing I know about Jersey Shore. Punched in the face.

134
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,920
Speaker 1: I am kind of curious, but I've not seen it. Um.

135
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,880
Speaker 1: So the other thing about Fire Island, apart from all

136
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,960
Speaker 1: these New Yorkers, is that they have a crazy deer population,

137
00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,480
Speaker 1: so much so that when you step off the boat

138
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,000
Speaker 1: to get to Fire Island, you just walk across the

139
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 1: backs of deer. Right, it's just right in certain New Yorkers,

140
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, ride deer to get to the parties. Now,

141
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,520
Speaker 1: I'm just just kidding. The interesting fact you can't ride

142
00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,800
Speaker 1: a reindeer, you know, their backs are two weeks that's

143
00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,840
Speaker 1: when you took him up to slay. So the Humane

144
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,880
Speaker 1: Society is experimented with immune contraceptives on the Fire Island

145
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,920
Speaker 1: deer population. Yeah, and they've they've also tried it out

146
00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 1: in South Africa with some African elephant preserves there, which

147
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,600
Speaker 1: kind of surprised me at first because I'm like, you know,

148
00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,240
Speaker 1: African elephants. We were trying to protect those guys. But

149
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,160
Speaker 1: that's the thing. You start protecting a species, uh, you know,

150
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,880
Speaker 1: giving it free reigin within a you know, preserved area,

151
00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 1: and the next thing you know, they're breeding like wildfire

152
00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,040
Speaker 1: and you're having for elephants, yeah, or bringing breeding like

153
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 1: elephants and you have to step in and keep them

154
00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 1: from eating up all the resources. Yeah. They've also tried

155
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,400
Speaker 1: it on the wild horses of assatigue. Oh see that one.

156
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,240
Speaker 1: That's another one that when I first read that, I'm like, oh,

157
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 1: the wild horses. Don't take the wild horses away. But

158
00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: obviously if you want to keep wild horses, you need

159
00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,760
Speaker 1: them to not go to get out of control and

160
00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,200
Speaker 1: starve themselves. The Humane Society is also working on immuno

161
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,880
Speaker 1: contraceptive and sterilization agents for dogs and cats as well.

162
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 1: That's awesome because I do hate to see uh. I think,

163
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,560
Speaker 1: like most people hate to see straight dogs and cats, right,

164
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 1: I think that this would be pretty useful in that sense.

165
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,640
Speaker 1: And also you know for the feral cats. Yeah, I

166
00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,800
Speaker 1: mean that's that's one of those um I mean, whether

167
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,679
Speaker 1: you like animals or or hate them, you know, it's like,

168
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,880
Speaker 1: this is an idea you can get behind, probably less

169
00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,360
Speaker 1: um expensive as well than you know, bringing in a

170
00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 1: cat to be spade or neutered. Yeah, just hit it

171
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,040
Speaker 1: with a dart gun from down the street. You get

172
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,160
Speaker 1: to go Peter, seems to be behind immuno contraceptives too.

173
00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:13,960
Speaker 1: I read at least one letter in which a Peter

174
00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,880
Speaker 1: wildlife biologists recommended an immuno contraceptive program as a means

175
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,000
Speaker 1: for controlling a deer population. And this particular population I

176
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,520
Speaker 1: think was in a Texan town. So yeah, that shows

177
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,839
Speaker 1: you how humane it is, because Peter, generally they don't

178
00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 1: get behind anything unless it's pretty pretty humane, ridiculously humane.

179
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,960
Speaker 1: Even so, let's talk about how these immuno contraceptives work.

180
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,680
Speaker 1: I could find two that are out there. So the

181
00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:39,080
Speaker 1: first one that I look at, it was called the

182
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,400
Speaker 1: spay back vaccine, and this is still experimental, and this

183
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,520
Speaker 1: is the one made from picks, right, well, a lot

184
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,360
Speaker 1: of them are a lot of them rely on poor

185
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,360
Speaker 1: signs Zona pellucida antigens, and these are just proteins drived

186
00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:56,240
Speaker 1: and extracted from pig ovaries. The spayvack vaccine has poor

187
00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,920
Speaker 1: sign Zona pellucida antigens or p Z p antigens, and

188
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,000
Speaker 1: these are the common ones in immunocontraceptives. And the pc

189
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,199
Speaker 1: p antigens are just proteins that are extracted and purified

190
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 1: from pig overies. An antigen you remember, is just a

191
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,960
Speaker 1: foreign body that will get your immune system all riled up,

192
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 1: and then it combine with whatever your immune system throws

193
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,000
Speaker 1: at it, usually like an antibody or a T cell.

194
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,520
Speaker 1: So spay back causes female mammals to produce antibodies that

195
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,480
Speaker 1: adhere to the surface of her own egg, and it

196
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,200
Speaker 1: blocks sperm from binding to the egg, so preventing fertilization.

197
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,679
Speaker 1: Spay Back has been tried on seals and rabbits, she pourses,

198
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,079
Speaker 1: grizzly bears and wolves. Just to give you an idea

199
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,200
Speaker 1: of its longevity, it worked for ten years on a

200
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,000
Speaker 1: population of gray seals with a single with a single dose,

201
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,160
Speaker 1: so you can just completely shut down reproduction for an

202
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,960
Speaker 1: entire decade species. It's pretty incredible. So this is still experimental.

203
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,120
Speaker 1: Um I did find another one called GonaCon, not to

204
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,480
Speaker 1: be confused with dragon con or comic con, but there's

205
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,320
Speaker 1: a there's a great joke about nerds rereading there somewhere,

206
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,160
Speaker 1: but that the listeners to come up with. So GonaCon

207
00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,599
Speaker 1: was just granted regulatory approval by the e p A

208
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,600
Speaker 1: in February. And this is also a single shot, multi

209
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 1: year vaccine, and it stimulates the manufacture of antibodies that

210
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,840
Speaker 1: bind to Canada trope and releasing hormone and animals, and

211
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,520
Speaker 1: it basically puts a deer in a nonreproductive state. This

212
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,960
Speaker 1: is also the one UM that they make a point

213
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,440
Speaker 1: of of mentioning that if you eat one of these deer,

214
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 1: it's not going to have an effect on your own

215
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,280
Speaker 1: reproduction system. Yeah, so the ideas that the proteins are

216
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,480
Speaker 1: digested as opposed to a hormone based contraceptive that you

217
00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,920
Speaker 1: might ingest good enough. So I feel like I should

218
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,439
Speaker 1: give you some idea of how effective this particular gona

219
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,360
Speaker 1: con contraceptive is. One study that I found numbers for

220
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,040
Speaker 1: UM had twenty eight deer and it was found to

221
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,000
Speaker 1: be eighty eight percent effective among in the first year

222
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,240
Speaker 1: and forty seven percent effective in the second year. I

223
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:03,040
Speaker 1: found another study that was kind of roughly correlated with that,

224
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,240
Speaker 1: and it was July two five, again maybe a handful

225
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,839
Speaker 1: of deer, like under fifty or something like that, relatively small,

226
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,480
Speaker 1: sixty seven percent effective UM the first year and forty

227
00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,120
Speaker 1: eight percent effective the second year. So while they're saying

228
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,320
Speaker 1: that it can last for years, I'm not so sure

229
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,240
Speaker 1: that it's effective for that The whole time period, right,

230
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 1: It's just sum depends on the individual animal. I'm guessing.

231
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,160
Speaker 1: The other interesting thing is, I mean you're basically putting

232
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 1: an animal in a non reproductive state for an extended

233
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 1: period of time, I mean decades, right, and you have

234
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,720
Speaker 1: to wonder does this have significant implications for on the

235
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,520
Speaker 1: animal's behavior. But maybe this isn't so different from a

236
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,320
Speaker 1: woman being on birth control for an extended period of time. Yeah,

237
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,080
Speaker 1: didn't you say that there's a study like you have

238
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,120
Speaker 1: women on birth control like they're they're less enamored with

239
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,040
Speaker 1: like husky men. That. Yeah, there was actually a big

240
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,840
Speaker 1: study that came out in two thousand nine in the

241
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,839
Speaker 1: journal Trends in Ecology and Evolution, and the authors were

242
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,120
Speaker 1: tending that birth control pills were altering mate selections. So

243
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,760
Speaker 1: women who are on the pill, um, the authors said,

244
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,880
Speaker 1: mate with Yeah, the less preferred partners. Cool, that's all

245
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:15,800
Speaker 1: I managed to get married, so you know you a pill? Uh? So.

246
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,720
Speaker 1: I mean the flip side of that is that women

247
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,959
Speaker 1: who are ovulating tend to be attracted to so called

248
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,040
Speaker 1: the manly men. Those were the those with the more

249
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,120
Speaker 1: masculine facial features, the traits of dominance and competitiveness, and

250
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,199
Speaker 1: women also tend to prefer the man who's not like

251
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,960
Speaker 1: them genetically speaking. So there are a number of arguments

252
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,679
Speaker 1: against this that are out there, according to reproductive expert

253
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,000
Speaker 1: Desk Cooper from the University of New South Wales. What

254
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,040
Speaker 1: does that? What does Cooper have to say? Yeah, so

255
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,240
Speaker 1: it goes back to our earlier discussion about the rabbits. Um,

256
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,240
Speaker 1: not all the rabbits were um, we're susceptible to the virus,

257
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,439
Speaker 1: and then the ones that survived ended up reading and

258
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,559
Speaker 1: then you had a new population of rabbits it was immune.

259
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,280
Speaker 1: So not every organism is going to is going to

260
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:04,079
Speaker 1: be susceptible to these different immuno contraceptions. All right, So

261
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,200
Speaker 1: well that also means the individuals who wind up surviving

262
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:14,720
Speaker 1: and reproducing maybe what Professor Cooper calls genetically unusual individuals. Right, So,

263
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,439
Speaker 1: if they're in the genetic minority and they've become a majority,

264
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 1: I mean, should they should they assume that position? What

265
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,040
Speaker 1: what kind of impact does that have on the genetic point?

266
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,040
Speaker 1: Should be a superorganism or it could be UM like

267
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 1: a very you know, disease prone organism, organism, and either

268
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:34,120
Speaker 1: extreme is going to be an unbalancing effect on the ecosystem.

269
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,240
Speaker 1: The other, very real downside of immuno contraception is that

270
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:38,920
Speaker 1: it could be slow. You're gonna have to wait for

271
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,160
Speaker 1: natural causes to run their course among a particular animal population,

272
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,160
Speaker 1: which is why wildlife agencies a lot of the time

273
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,040
Speaker 1: are probably going to employ another strategy in addition to

274
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,800
Speaker 1: immuno contraception, So like shooting with the dart, wait a

275
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,880
Speaker 1: little bit, once it gets up, then you shoot with

276
00:14:53,880 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 1: the rifle. Possibly I'm just saying the herd in more

277
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,640
Speaker 1: than one way. It could be expensive too. There's a

278
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,880
Speaker 1: lot of fieldwork involved. You have to hit enough of

279
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,200
Speaker 1: the population to make a difference. Um, and I think

280
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,280
Speaker 1: this might be about And lastly, your animal could suffer

281
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,360
Speaker 1: side effects, although I didn't find a clear explanation of

282
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,440
Speaker 1: what these might be in my research other than you know,

283
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,040
Speaker 1: just the usual puffiness at the injection site. I guess

284
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 1: they might die, but I mean, you're trying to cut

285
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:29,360
Speaker 1: down their number anyway, right, that's true. That's true. So

286
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 1: the big question for me was what about immuno contraception

287
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,920
Speaker 1: for say, human males. Yeah, I think there's a I mean,

288
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,720
Speaker 1: it sounds like there's a huge possibility there. Obviously, you know,

289
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:44,239
Speaker 1: you'd have to go through trials and experiments and legislation.

290
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to go through so many hoops

291
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 1: to get it to you know, to finally be on

292
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 1: the market. But I think it would be a good option. Yeah.

293
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,960
Speaker 1: There's a two thousand four study by rand at All

294
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,720
Speaker 1: that was published in Science and its studied reversible immuno

295
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,560
Speaker 1: country reception in monkeys. It was a pretty small study.

296
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 1: It was just seven out of nine monkeys who became

297
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:08,320
Speaker 1: infertile after receiving a dose of epin and this is

298
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 1: a protein specific to the testes and epididymis. After the

299
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,160
Speaker 1: monkeys stopped receiving the open, five out of the seven

300
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,360
Speaker 1: became fertile again, right, so to you know, stayed infertile.

301
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 1: So that should promise um. And but if we were

302
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 1: to adopt that for for humans, of course, it would

303
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,560
Speaker 1: have to go three years and years of clinical trials

304
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 1: and take up a whole lot of cash to get there.

305
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,440
Speaker 1: I still hope it's the administered by dark gun because

306
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:34,960
Speaker 1: I think that's the way that you could really make

307
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,800
Speaker 1: it be like the manly option, you know, because this

308
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 1: is they're not taking pills and little you know, around containers.

309
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,200
Speaker 1: It's like they're having to shoot themselves in the foot

310
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,520
Speaker 1: with a dark guns. Well better, yeah, let your partner

311
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,680
Speaker 1: take out a little aggression and yeah, shoot your everybody

312
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,080
Speaker 1: everybody daily basis. So I think that about wraps it

313
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,800
Speaker 1: up from Uni Contraception this week. If you want to

314
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,880
Speaker 1: find out a little bit more about regular contraception, head

315
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,160
Speaker 1: on over to how staff works dot com. Hey, got

316
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 1: a few minutes, you want to do some listener mail? Sure, sure, yeah,

317
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:08,399
Speaker 1: I'd love to. We had a couple of people right

318
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 1: in on our Weapons that Changed the World podcast, and

319
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 1: you guys feel strongly about your weapons. Yeah, we got

320
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,919
Speaker 1: a lot of responses, some of some of them were

321
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,960
Speaker 1: pretty awesome. And by a lot we mean like five

322
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,920
Speaker 1: well that's that's a lot, but a lot. They listed

323
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 1: a lot of weapons. Um, you know, everything like the

324
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,680
Speaker 1: club got mentioned, um right right. A gentleman by the

325
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,639
Speaker 1: name of Joey thinks that we definitely definitely should have

326
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,359
Speaker 1: mentioned boats and clubs and swords and bows and arrows.

327
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,119
Speaker 1: Although he thinks us and he says, keep up the

328
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 1: good work. Awesome. We're always always open for you know, suggestions.

329
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,480
Speaker 1: Blaine from California also writes that he thought that the

330
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,440
Speaker 1: episode was titled a little bit misleadingly. Yeah, yeah, the

331
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,320
Speaker 1: title was a little misleading because we really dealt more

332
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:55,440
Speaker 1: with weaponized technologies as opposed to specific weapons. Um and

333
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,800
Speaker 1: and certainly things like the long bow have had a

334
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,960
Speaker 1: huge impact on the evolue of warfare. Yeah, Blaine would

335
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 1: have liked to see machine gun on on our list,

336
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 1: but we'll have to come back to these. We could

337
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,600
Speaker 1: easily do an entire podcast on on on how the

338
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 1: machine gund changed warfare or the law of the long book.

339
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,440
Speaker 1: Fan of the longbow, Yeah, Tim from Dallas was a

340
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,359
Speaker 1: big fan of the long bow as well. He wrote

341
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,360
Speaker 1: that the long bow allowed for British military domination during

342
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 1: medieval times, and the crossbow, invented yet again in China,

343
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 1: did much the same there. So thanks to him for that. Yeah.

344
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,679
Speaker 1: So thanks everyone for writing in with your comments and

345
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,479
Speaker 1: feedback on the Military Technologies podcast. We do appreciate it.

346
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,800
Speaker 1: If you want to send us more suggestions or just

347
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,280
Speaker 1: a comment, shoot us an email at science Stuff at

348
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 1: hows to freak dot com and dropping the homepage to

349
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,480
Speaker 1: check out the blogs. We discuss everything from space, music,

350
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 1: two robots that are designed to digest food, and you

351
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:55,960
Speaker 1: can find that at how stuff works dot com. For

352
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,479
Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics because at

353
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Want more house stuff Works,

354
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 1: check out our blogs on the house stuff works dot

355
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,080
Speaker 1: com home page