1 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, there's Chuck, 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: and we're joined today by our resident ghost, Bloody Mary. 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: That's right, And we just did a weird thing and 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: recorded our ads first. So I just had the urge 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: to say, if you like Bloody Mary, you're gonna love 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: this Bloody Mary. Uh, you won't love Bloody Mary, because 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: that is a scary kid's game. It seems like a 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: lot of girls do this, but I know some boys 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: who have done it as well. I have where you 10 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: stand in the mirror, and there are variations we'll talk about. 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: You look in the mirror, it's darkened room, Maybe you 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: got a candle going. If you're lucky, and you say 13 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 1: the words bloody Mary a certain amount of times, sometimes 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: thirteen per region. Sometimes you turn in a circle thirteen times. 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: I've never heard of that. I would fall over. That's 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: the Parma Ohio method. And then, depending on how skilled 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 1: you are at your incan patians, Bloody Mary may kill you, 18 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: may reach through the mirror and pull you into the 19 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: other worlds, may claw your face and eyes out, or 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: you may just die of fright or maybe nothing at all, 21 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: or she may just be standing there glowering at you, 22 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: really mad that you you brought her to this mirror, 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: but you can't do anything about it, right, like the 24 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: ladies kids. Yeah, either way, you're gonna go running out 25 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: of this bathroom and you're gonna be talking to your 26 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: friends about what you saw and we'll talk about it later. 27 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: But in a weird, a weird way, like they're correct 28 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: when they say they saw something strange. Right, Uh, possibly, Okay, 29 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: we'll go with yes. So what's the deal? Where did 30 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: this thing come from? So that's the other thing about it. 31 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: It's not just a game, but there's there's because there's 32 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: like a legend wrapped around it, and the legend is 33 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: kind of evolving and changing regionally and over time. Like 34 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: you were saying, it actually constitutes a piece of American folklore. 35 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: They're pretty sure it's American, right, and they've atually been 36 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: studying it here they're like kind of sporadically. But the 37 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: first person to actually put it pen to paper about 38 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: it was a folklorist named Janet lang Law LANGLOI That's 39 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: where I'm going with Langloy, great last name, look wise 40 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: tough to say, you know what, I prefer lang La. 41 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: You could say it like that. It's even harder to 42 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: langla wa right, it almost looks like Shammy but with 43 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: an owl. Oh man, Shammy confused me for the first 44 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: thirties something years in my life. Why is everybody staying 45 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: it like that? I knew what a Shammy was, but 46 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: I never put the two together. Yeah, I know exactly 47 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: what you mean. But this lady's last name is not Shammy. 48 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: It's Langlois and florist. Like yeah, and I think she's 49 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: sort of just I mean, it was around, but she 50 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: was the first person to kind of start writing about 51 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: it a little bit. And it turns out like, because 52 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: it's regional, there are a bunch of different names besides 53 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: Bloody Mary Hell Mary Is and Mary Worth is hysterical. 54 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: That's a full on comic strip. It is one of 55 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: the weirdest comic strips ever. Yeah, what was the deal 56 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: with that? It's like Mark Trail, I don't know. At 57 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: least Park Trail was appealing to kids. Nothing about Mary 58 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: Worth had any appeal to kids, Like they would just 59 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: be like, what what is this? I don't understand any 60 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: of this. It was a comic strip, a soap opera 61 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: comic strip for grown ups. Very bizarre or was it 62 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: for grown ups? Totally? And then there was also I 63 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: think Apartment three E was a very similar kind of 64 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: comic strip that I might have the apartment number wrong, 65 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: but it was like that, No, thank you, give me Garfield, 66 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: to give me Beatle Bailey, give me a wizard of It. 67 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: Don't forget high in Lois Bloom County. I could do 68 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: this all day zits remembers It's did a comic featuring us. 69 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course that was awesome, But Bloody Mary 70 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with any of that. But we 71 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: should do it on comic strips. That's a great idea. 72 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: I can't believe we haven't. I knew we did comic books, 73 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: but not comic strips. We should definitely check that as 74 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: a great idea. We'll wind it out here with a 75 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: few more names that I like. Black Angus is another, 76 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: and then black Actus, Varte Madame hit What does say 77 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: black Angus, black Agnes You're right right, So they're different 78 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: names for the same spirit that you can conjure from 79 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: the from your mirror if you do this right. Um, 80 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: And there's a few of those names kind of stand out. 81 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: A couple of them really. The first one Bloody Mary. 82 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: That's the one I always heard. And if you read 83 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: about Bloody Mary, a lot of the people who are 84 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: writing about Bloody Mary trace her to Queen Mary, the 85 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: first of England, who ruled from fifteen fifty five to 86 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: fifty eight. And she was actually called Bloody Mary because 87 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: she was a Protestant killer. That's right. Uh, she ordered 88 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: the death of many Protestants to be burned at the 89 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: steak and other grizzly forms of death. But here's the thing, like, 90 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: it's probably not on account of her that we say 91 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: bloody Mary, because she wasn't doing the actual killing, and 92 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: in the folklore, like it's really Bloody Mary doing the killing, 93 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: and she like bathes in the blood of children and 94 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Right, So, um, that doesn't really jibe. 95 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: It more jibes with somebody else, a woman by a 96 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: totally different name, Elizabeth Bathory, the Countess of Blood I 97 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: think they call her, who actually is reputed to have 98 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: killed many many peasant girls herself and actually did probably 99 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: bathe in their their blood. And she may actually be 100 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: the most prolific serial killer in history. So there's like 101 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: maybe we're talking we're looking at like a mishmash of 102 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 1: different names traits characters, or it could just be totally coincidental, 103 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: or they don't really know where this thing came from, 104 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. Or it was based on Mary 105 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: Worth the sup Upper Comics adult. Right, she's got really boring. 106 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: As the comic strip went on, she's like, no, might 107 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: as well start killing kids, right? Uh? Should we take 108 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: a break? I think so? All right, let's take a 109 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: break and we'll talk a little bit more about some 110 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: of the variations, and believe it or not, there's sort 111 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: of a little real science to this one too. Okay, Chuck, 112 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: you talked about variations. One thing you can do is 113 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: spinning a circle thirteen times. Another one is you can 114 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: chant her name a certain amount of times. Another variation 115 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: is where you actually prick your finger and make it 116 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: bleed and then you press fingers with the person you're 117 00:06:55,480 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: doing this with and chant, don't do that kids, it's hardcore. Yeah. Um. 118 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: And then there's also uh saying I believe. I saw 119 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: in a few variations that you say like Merry Worth, 120 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: I believe, Mary Worth, I believe, and that's the chant 121 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: and a a kind of matronly well dressed animated woman 122 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: appears in your mirror and says, what's the bother? Uh? 123 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: And you know this is kind of thing that's done 124 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: its slumber parties and sleepovers. Uh. The kids all, you know, 125 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: think they see something, they get scared, their imagination takes over. 126 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: But supposedly there was a little real science to this 127 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: and that. In two thousand and ten, a researcher out 128 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 1: of Italy name Giovanni Caputo did a little experiment where 129 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: he had people star into a mirror in a dimly 130 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: lit room for ten minutes and write down what they saw. 131 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: And out of the fifty test subjects very robust um, 132 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: sixty of people said they saw huge deformations of their face, 133 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: also saw fantastical and monstrous things. And other people said 134 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: they saw the face of a parent, or the face 135 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: of an animal, or an old woman or a child. Yeah. 136 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: And I was looking at why that might happen, and 137 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: apparently one swing one explanation is that your brain becomes 138 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: sensitized to the visual information it's getting and because it 139 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: doesn't need it's already judged this image a non thread 140 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: and it's not food or anything like that, it stops 141 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:42,239 Speaker 1: filling in the details and so visually a deformation occurs 142 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: in your image of what you're seeing in them because 143 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: you're staring at it. Right. Yes, so there actually is 144 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: science to this idea where you know, the chanting of 145 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: bloody Mary doesn't necessarily do anything, although I don't know, 146 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: maybe it puts you in something of a trance like 147 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: state where this happens on a deeper level or something. 148 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: But at the very least, we realize that the brain 149 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: stops all in details, so a deformed version of like 150 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: a face can see. And then you also add in 151 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,599 Speaker 1: our um innate need to fill in patterns or to 152 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: fine patterns and to see faces and things. So maybe 153 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: we start inputting stuff in those missing areas and it 154 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: comes out all monstrous or baby like. But wouldn't you 155 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: need for this effect to take place, to do it 156 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: for like ten minutes and not just say bloody Mary 157 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: three times? Yeah? I think you're I think that's part 158 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: of the game, as you're supposed to stay in there 159 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: for longer than just however long it takes to say 160 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: bloody Mary three times, you know, like you maybe use 161 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: chance bloody Mary three times and then you just stare 162 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 1: until you just are scared and run out of the bathroom. 163 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: You know what game is a lot more fun than 164 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: that at a slumber party. How about that game where 165 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: you go in a closet with someone and I don't know, 166 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: kiss in the dark? Sure, sure, or light as a feather, 167 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: stiff as a board is pretty awesome. Yeah, but I 168 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: was I was probably more scared of kissing a girl 169 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: in a closet than I was incanting bloody mary. Um. 170 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: There is this great article on this, well, a couple 171 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: of them. I found some on Penn State Universities like 172 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: folklore site. Mental floss had something good, and Snopes did too. 173 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: But in that mental Floss article they turned up um 174 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: a possible providence of this game and linked it to 175 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: a Robert Burns poem from I think sev six, where 176 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: I think the poem is called Halloween and and Robert 177 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: Burns is basically giving you party ideas that your next 178 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: Halloween gathering in the eighteenth century, and one of them 179 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: is what um girls can do to look in the 180 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: mirror to see who they'll marry. Right, And the idea 181 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: for mental Floss and others is maybe just the word 182 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: mary got kind of twisted up over the years, and 183 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: that's where that came from. That's part of it. And 184 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: then another part is so you're looking in the mirror 185 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: and you're combing your hair and or eating an apple 186 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: at the same time, and then you'll see in the 187 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: mirror over your shoulder the face of the person you're 188 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: gonna marry, but you could all so see a skull, 189 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: and that means you're going to die before you have 190 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: a chance to marry. And so it's possible that that 191 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: and the Mary kind of turned into bloody Mary because 192 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: of the skull. Uh, that's one explanation for where this 193 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: came from. There's another one from that is super Yeah, 194 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: that it might have something to do with, uh, some 195 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: kind of ritual for when an adolescent girl enters her minsies, 196 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: which is called what chuck right? That's right? Really stuck 197 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: with me over the years, Yeah, I did. We both 198 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: learned that one together, and it makes sense in a 199 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: really kind of figurative way, like the whole game is 200 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: really preoccupied with blood. That's one the age of the 201 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: girls who tend to play these games kind of alignes. Yeah, 202 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: it's definitely considered a girls game, and like a late 203 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: pubescent pre irish, say, late prepubescent, early adolescent age time frame, 204 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: so that would be the right time for this game 205 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: to be played too. Yeah, and the last part of 206 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: that one is, uh, something we talked a lot about 207 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: on our episode about that many many years ago, was 208 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: we're kind of like one of the only cultures that 209 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: doesn't have some kind of ritual right of passage for 210 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: girls entering that phase of their life, right, Yeah, and 211 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: then this kind of suggests that like girls still need 212 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: that anyway, even if they're there, they don't live in 213 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: a culture that has it. And this stands in in 214 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: some really weird, roundabout way, which actually find fascinating, very interesting, 215 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: very interesting indeed. So that's Bloody Marry everybody, and we're 216 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 1: one step closer to Halloween, so be where in the meantime, 217 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: short stuff is out like a bat in the night. 218 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio. 219 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart 220 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 221 00:12:53,360 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: favorite shows.