1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: I covered Brexit before I covered Trump. I know, it's 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: kind of weird. I was living in Brussels, but I 3 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: was around sort of real courts and real like I 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: had gone to the actual Versailles, and I had seen 5 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: places that had this opulence of like the old world, 6 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: and I felt I never felt more culture shock when 7 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: I showed up at mar a Lago after he won 8 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, what is this 9 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: tack he plays? I'm in right now. 10 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 2: Welcome to this edition of the Warning Podcast. Very happy 11 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: to be joined by Tara Palmery, the political reporter at 12 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 2: Puck News, which is the first thing I read every day. 13 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 2: I think it's a great publication. Everybody who hears my 14 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: voice ought to subscribe to it. Probably the most insightful 15 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 2: thing that you can read about the nexus of all 16 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: of the points of influence that direct America's culture and 17 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: from America's culture down river of that is where our 18 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 2: politics can be found out. And I think one of 19 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: the most astute, very best chroniclers of it in this 20 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 2: very tumultuous era is the person that I'm very privileged 21 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: to have with me today, Tara Palmery. Great to have you. 22 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: Thanks Steve it's very high praise coming from you, so 23 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: I'm really happy to be on your show. 24 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: You bet so. Listen, you wrote an amazing account of 25 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: life in the nation's capital in Washington, DC, and I 26 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 2: want to talk about that, but before I do, I 27 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 2: just want to contextualize something that I think you get 28 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: and you're able to bring to life better than almost 29 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: anyone out there writing. And I first kind of had 30 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 2: this epiphany on the John McCain campaign in two thousand 31 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 2: and eight, and it was during the New Hampshire primary, 32 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: and it's during the closing days and I was Straight 33 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: Talk Express and so the Straight Talk Express, there's a 34 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: bus behind it filled with national press. There's a bus 35 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: behind that filled with some other reporters and supporters, and 36 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: our three buses passes the Hillary bus. The bus are 37 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: reporters behind it, and the bus of supporters behind that, 38 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 2: and then we passed the Obama bus and then the 39 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: Romney bus. And what I realized in that moment is 40 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 2: that American politics, this global news event, a presidential cycle 41 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: that never ends, is really at its core a small 42 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: group of people on the first bus who are talking 43 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: to a relatively small group of people on the second bus. 44 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: All of the people on the first buses are talking 45 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 2: to all the people on the second buses. And as 46 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 2: that plays out through the cable news shows, it creates 47 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: a conventional wisdom, a type of conformity where opinions become 48 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: cemented as realities, and there's a ubiquity of phrasing like 49 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: such as the White House believes or the White House 50 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,399 Speaker 2: has and having worked in the building right, Like it's 51 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 2: never said anything right building right, It doesn't, it doesn't speak. 52 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,119 Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that work they are right, 53 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 2: but in reality, right, there's about fifteen assistants to the president. 54 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: You know, about twenty five deputy assistants to the president. 55 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: So it's just really small ecosystem, right, And. 56 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: They have their talking points that they want us to 57 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: put out there as at their facts. 58 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 2: Right. And you take the reader behind to a restaurant 59 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 2: which is in Georgetown, which is like a great right, 60 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: but which is which is of what what? Just what? 61 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: If you're if you're watching oh God or whatever, describe 62 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: Cafe Milano, right. It it represents what in the cultural 63 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: firmament of Washington, DC in today's day and age. 64 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: I would say it's the place where you walk in 65 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: the door, and like you see John Kerry having lunch 66 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: on one side with some like you know Washington Post 67 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: like Sally Quinn or some Washington Post columnists essentially a 68 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: gossip calmnist at one time, you know. And then you 69 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: see Mike Pompeio over there with some aids, maybe some 70 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: defense contractor lobbyists. And then you see the old school 71 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: lobbyists who can tell you stories about when they were 72 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: talking with Kennedy and they were and and you just 73 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: kind of of like everybody has to have enough money 74 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: to sit down and have dinner there because just the 75 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: cost of a plate of I don't know, bronzino, it's 76 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: fifty six dollars or something insane. So that's just for 77 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: you to understand what Washington is like. You're not paying, 78 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: No one's paying out of their pockets if they are. 79 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: Like it's lined from book deals, it's lined from you know, 80 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: board being on the board at Raytheon or you know, 81 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: being a top lobbying shop forever, the connections they've made 82 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: since they were twenty one years old and can now 83 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: sit down and dine on at Cafe Milano. So you've 84 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,239 Speaker 1: got like professional Washington there, all in on the game, 85 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: all knowing how they got there, and they don't even 86 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: care that Like the guy on the left is like 87 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: a you know, lefty liberal who ram as a Democratic nominee, 88 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: and the guy on the right is like, basically, Maga 89 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: could be the next Defense secretary. And maybe the two 90 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: will pass, maybe they'll shake hands, maybe they don't, but 91 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: they all belong there for the same reason. In a 92 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: lot of ways, they've worked this like they've gone up 93 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: the slippery slope, you know, to get there to Cafe Milano, 94 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: and you know, as a journalist, like I've been invited 95 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: to parties there, I've sat at the bar there, I've 96 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: been invited by those people. And the conversation that they're 97 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: having at that table, you know, it's pretty much like 98 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: a known thing. It's off the record. Have you ever 99 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: read anything from reporter being like I was at Kevin 100 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: Milano and I, you know, did a hard hitting interview. 101 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: It's like, no, that's where everyone is politically incorrect and 102 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: talking about what a shit show their party is or 103 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: their side is, and how they're freaking out about how 104 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: that is going to impact their bottom line, their influence 105 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: in the town, and their power. Right because everyone knows 106 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: better than the boss in every corporate structure, right, and 107 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: everybody sees the holes and the stories, and everyone feels 108 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: everyone in town is just like they just they are 109 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: paranoid that the next year another party is going to 110 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: take and they're going to be on the other side 111 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: of you know, they're going to be on the losing side. 112 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: Their contracts are maybe gonna those of you contracts. It's 113 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: like corporate America. It's there. They're trying to stay relevant, 114 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: and everyone's afraid in Washington of losing relevancy. Right, It's 115 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: like the worst thing in the world. Why people never 116 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: go away? It's like why do'n did anyone ever go away? 117 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: Just go away? So and they're filled the dungeon. They 118 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: won't go away, so. 119 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 2: Amazing. I have so many questions. But let me when 120 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: you walk in there, right and you observe that room, right, 121 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: are you like these people who the American people are 122 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: told constantly are at each other's throats in a state 123 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 2: of perpetual war? Are you like these people have a 124 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: lot more in common than they do in disagreement. They 125 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: are this team peoples, right, that exist in this strange 126 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: capital culture here or right? And then more importantly, maybe 127 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: do those people understand that they are each shades of 128 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 2: the same person when they look around this room, which 129 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 2: is culturally right, it's neutral territory, right, It's. 130 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: Like, yeah, it's kind of neutral ground, yeah right, yeahs 131 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: of Washington. It's too elegant for a partisan fight. It's 132 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: too elegant for Matt Gates to arrive, you know what 133 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: I mean. It's too elegant for like Marjorie Taylor Green 134 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: or like the disruptors to arrive. And they are like 135 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: a new batch of people that Washington is just like, 136 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: I don't know how to deal with these people. I 137 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: couldn't imagine aoc ever being in Cafe Milano. But like 138 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: Biden is a creature of Washington. And like, as we know, 139 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: he went to go visit his son, a big time 140 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: lobbyist on his birthday at Cafe Milano, who was sitting 141 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: down with like the head of Burisma. And that's totally normal. 142 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: It happens on the left and the right. It's not 143 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: like I'm sure George W. Bush went to Cafe Milano frequently. 144 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: And like during Trump's age, the Cafe Milano it really 145 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: moved to the Trump Hotel, to the lobby of the 146 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: Trump Hotel, like that's where a lot of the Republican 147 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: wheeling and dealing was happening. The only difference between what 148 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: was happening at Trump Hotel and their lobby and Cafe 149 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: Milana was that never Democrats would never go to the 150 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: Trump Hotel, Like there was no it was not neutral ground. 151 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: It was sort of reserved only for these Trump people 152 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: and the people who are making money off the fat 153 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: of the Trump you know, White House, and it was 154 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: just they were too it was just two partisan. You 155 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 1: couldn't go in there in like any dignifying type of way, 156 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: like you know, Kimberly Gilfoyle was constantly holding core like 157 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: top lobbyists. Jeff Miller had his own like round table 158 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: of I guess, like what's the appetizer they had at 159 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: the time, which I found to be so grotesque. It 160 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: was bacon on clothes pins and they would bring that 161 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: out and it's just like it was just like the 162 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: And it was also a place of excesses. They had 163 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: a BLT restaurant in there, and it was this really 164 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: nice shoot Stute shop and they're blankly on the name, 165 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: but it was Italian and I remember like never in DC. 166 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,719 Speaker 1: Have you seen like an Italian designer come in and 167 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 1: uh Brioni, Like, I think a Brioni tie is probably 168 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: like ten thousand dollars and that's in the in the hotel. 169 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: So you know, in some there are certain places that 170 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: are forbidden for partisans on either side. But Cafe Milano 171 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: is the one place where the class of people who 172 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: are who have been around a while, they're you know, 173 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: establishment Republicans and Democrats who have always known how to 174 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: work together for many years and make money off of 175 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: the town and how it works. They come together and 176 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: they don't necessarily sit together, but they can be there 177 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: in the same room, and then people can talk and 178 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: they have their conversations and the conversations are not talking 179 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: points at all, and so and they have their anxieties 180 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: and fears and all that as well. 181 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: It's just a different and so you and you come 182 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 2: to report on right, You come to report on right 183 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: this kind of sentiment there, and you you reveal in 184 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: doing so, I think one of the great oddities of 185 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: our time in this compelling way, which is that there's 186 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 2: a conversation that's occurring between the journalists and the political 187 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:50,479 Speaker 2: elite of the country in relative secrecy club rules right about. 188 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: They're the political hacks, I would say, like, not even 189 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: the hacks, but like the professionals, political professionals who are 190 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: making money based on their access to the White House, 191 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: to the Pentagon, to Capitol Hills, the highest levels of power. 192 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: And most of them work in corporate America or like 193 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: close to it. But those those jobs that they have 194 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: are based on their connections to power. So at one 195 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: point they did work for Biden. So they still can 196 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: you know, phone up Anita Dunn, who's at the top 197 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: of the wrung White House. Maybe they can't call Biden 198 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: directly anymore, but like this is somewhere like you would 199 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: find his former chief of staff, Ron Klaim, you know 200 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: what I mean. A lot of formers are in there 201 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: who have the ability to pick up the phone and 202 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: get straight to like get the like get the real 203 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: talking points because they're actually hired by corporations to get 204 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: past the talking points. They don't like these. They want 205 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: more political intelligence, right, they want the real story. They're 206 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: supposed to be able to tell their bosses. Okay, people 207 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: are saying this on cable news, but actually, like look 208 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: around the corner, because that's really happening, Like that's why 209 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: they are hired as lobbyist, consultants, et cetera. They have 210 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: those connections sort of like sit down and talk to 211 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: those people. It's like, Okay, what are you telling your 212 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: bosses who are paying you millions of dollars a year 213 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: at I don't know, name any blue chip company meta, 214 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 1: you know, Goldman, Sachs, Chevron, They're you. 215 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: Know, what they're telling these people is not what they're 216 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 2: saying on the record or on the cable news if 217 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 2: they're in that space. What they're what they're saying is 218 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 2: they're very worried about about the race. If they're if 219 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 2: they're rooting for Biden in this or have a rooting. 220 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 1: Everyone is basically saying like for Democrats or like Biden spucked, 221 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: Like that's what they're saying. Have you ever heard anyone 222 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: on television say that before? No, exactly, And like Republicans, 223 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: so Publicans are saying too, They're like it's a flip 224 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: of the coin if Trump wins. They're not pleased to 225 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: have like the weakest product of a Republican candidate. Like 226 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: I think the feeling is like if these were two products, 227 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: like they're both very weak products, like there are cars 228 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: that you you don't know if they're going to be 229 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: driving within a few years, Like it's just no doubt. 230 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: So they know that the products are terrible. They're just 231 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: trying to figure out like which one is better and 232 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 1: how do they advise their clients? And I also think 233 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: they come to journalists like us to kind of find out, Okay, 234 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: what are people saying, what's the real inside story? Because 235 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: that's the value. Like that's the real money. That's not 236 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: like opening up the USA Today or the New York Times, 237 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: et cetera. Like the value is like going beyond where 238 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: beyond the headlines, like we say, this's a Puck like 239 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: the new starts where the like the new starts for 240 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: Puck where the story ends? Do you know what I mean? 241 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: Because like that's the value. It's intelligence and expertise and 242 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: like yeah, it requires like a little bit going over 243 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: your skis to make predictions, but like if you have 244 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: the insight, the sourcing and the expertise, like you should 245 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: be able to take people to that next level, to 246 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: that next dimension. Because that's that's that's basically like in 247 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: this information business of Washington, which you know, well, that's 248 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: where the money, and the power is who has the 249 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: access to information. 250 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: So when people are sitting around, are they of the 251 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: mood that Trump's coming back? Is that the is that? 252 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: That is that the feeling in the. 253 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: Air, absolutely on both sides, and Republicans aren't necessarily happy 254 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: about it either. They know what brings chaos. In some ways, 255 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: it's easier when there's a democratic president because they can 256 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: like there's a there's a calm. They can't predict that 257 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: Trump either. 258 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 2: Democrats think he's think he's coming back. 259 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: To Oh yeah, oh totally yes. I the only people 260 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: who say that he's not coming back are people that 261 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: work directly for bir Biden and like there are friends 262 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: that are like on the outer circle of cheerleaders, but 263 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: even they can't like it's just like, okay, come on, 264 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: you know that, like look at every single poll in 265 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: the battleground states like that this like their arguments, I mean, 266 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: you go into all of that. But yes, for the 267 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: most part, professional Democrats believe that Trump is coming back, 268 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: and they're terrified. 269 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: And what is the plan if any to stop them? 270 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: Does? 271 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 2: Does does the White House believe that they can do 272 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: what they did in twenty twenty that keeps the president 273 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 2: out of sight that he'll make the rare appearance, come 274 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 2: out a couple times a week, say something, go back 275 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 2: and that'll be like Joe Biden will carry the message, 276 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: Kamala Harrick Harris will carry the message. Like what is 277 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: their theory of the case, like on how they on 278 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: how they beat Trump? Do they think that? Like people 279 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 2: are gonna wake up right like in October and be like, 280 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 2: oh man, that infrastructure deal was great. We love the 281 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 2: Chips act like that they get credit for the accomplishments. 282 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: What does anyone ever talk about? That? Is that talked 283 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: about right in the in the Cafe Milano right space, 284 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 2: Like how are they right? 285 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: That's a good question because everything you're saying is that 286 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: is communicated from the White House, right Like what you're 287 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: you have just said, those are all like the talking 288 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: points to get from the White House. Don't worry in 289 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: a year from now everyone will feel all the great 290 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: effects the economy. Maybe they will, or maybe gas prices 291 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: will surge in the summer and a league, you know, 292 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: or something will happen. The Cafe Milano crowd is they 293 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: just they don't like the democracy argument. They don't think 294 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: it's strong enough they don't think that this whole idea, 295 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: even though everyone in Washington is like personally traumatized. But 296 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,959 Speaker 1: what happened on January sixth, including Republicans, like I know, 297 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: top level Republicans that like won't talk about it because 298 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: it brings them anxiety, and you know, it was a 299 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: trauma in this town January side. But they don't think 300 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: it's the strongest argument for the American people, Like it's 301 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: too conceptual. It's not a real thing like that they 302 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: can touch or see, like migration or the economy, how 303 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: much money they have in their pocket books, you know 304 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: what I mean. So they sort of fear that this 305 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: whole democracy idea and the fear of autocracy is like 306 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: is not salient enough. And really, like the only people 307 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: who can understand what it's like to be under that 308 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: kind of rule are probably like recent Americans, like for example, 309 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: like my family came from Soviet Poland, and like they 310 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: my grandmother can talk about like Putin and how scary 311 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: he is, But not a lot of people really quite 312 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: understand like what that's like and what they're people of, 313 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: at least not Americans who have been here for generations. 314 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: They don't know anything about that they take democracy for granted. 315 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: So I feel like you're trying to sort of inject 316 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: like a fear that people just take for granted for 317 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: so long. And I hear I hear this from a 318 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: lot of people. That New Yorker story that came out 319 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: about Biden. The one line that I kept getting forward 320 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: from everyone in the professional class, like people who are 321 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: like close to the highest levels of democratic leaders or 322 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: like work with them at some point, people that are 323 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: in power. Now, I cannot believe that mac donaldan, who's 324 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: very close to Joe Biden, He's like Joe Biden's other brain. 325 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: You don't even know about him. He's so low key. Yeah, 326 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: if he walked into into Cafe Milano, like everyone would 327 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: know who he was, but anywhere else in the world, 328 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: no one would know him. He's very unassuming. He's a 329 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: nice guy. But he said he that the polling showed 330 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: them not to lean into democracy, but they're doing it anyway, 331 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: And everyone's like, what are they kidding, Like, don't know 332 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: that they they're terrified that the White House is leaning 333 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: too hard into democracy. Abortion will be very salient. And 334 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: the other thing that the Biden White House is constantly 335 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: saying is like everyone thought we weren't going to do 336 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: well in twenty twenty two, and we exceeded expectations thanks 337 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: to Roe Wade, which I agree, But Biden also wasn't 338 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: on the ballot, and you had a lot of like 339 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: activists come out. You really had like an activist crowd. 340 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: Most people don't vote in the midterms. Trump chose the 341 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: shittiest candidates of all time, and like you had these activists. 342 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: Hopefully they'll come out again. But look like right now, 343 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: all of the core of the Democratic base, the activists, 344 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: the students are all protesting against Biden right now. So 345 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: it's hard to say. 346 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 2: It's very hard to say. And I think that in 347 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 2: the aftermath of an election, right, you know, everybody goes 348 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 2: out tries to claim credit. Right, what was the twenty 349 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: two election about? Was it a referendum on Chuck Schumer 350 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,959 Speaker 2: on Schumerism? Right, Like, I don't think it is. It was, 351 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 2: And so you look at it, right like, and you 352 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 2: look at Carrie Lake right, and you look at you know, 353 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 2: Katie Dobbs, and you look at it genuinely insane person 354 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 2: right in Carrie Lake right, You're like, it's not like 355 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 2: she lost by twenty points right, Like, right, you know, 356 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 2: she it's not like people didn't think about it. Right, 357 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 2: So you go you go out like across these places. Right, 358 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 2: it's on the it's on the it's on the edge, 359 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 2: it's on the margin, right, like doctor Oz is not 360 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 2: losing by fifteen points. Right, you know, it's pretty extraordinary 361 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 2: how tight these races are. Right, And there was there 362 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: was a real like I think, like an absence of 363 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 2: humility probably in the in the aftermath of twenty two 364 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 2: a year and a half later, Right, you know, people 365 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 2: are saying, well, the next thing that's gonna happen, right, 366 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 2: is tied to the last thing that happened. And by 367 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 2: the way, here's what happened. The place I was, you know, 368 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 2: trying to get to with you is like at at 369 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 2: this point, right, which is what is the campaign about? Right? 370 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 2: Like does anybody ever do do the does the Biden 371 00:21:53,800 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 2: campaign ever get asked your strategy is what? Right? 372 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: Really? 373 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's like because I feel right as somebody 374 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 2: who right, I shared a human position. He could be 375 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 2: honest deathbed right like supported in a in a in 376 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 2: a you know, in a cryotube, I will vote for him, 377 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 2: right against against Donald Trump? Right, like that's where I 378 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: am on this right, but but but that not being 379 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 2: where where where most of the country is right. 380 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: So this is there, this has always been I see. 381 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: The problem is that like it's their argument, the non 382 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: electability argument of Donald Trump, Like it doesn't work anymore, 383 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: and they haven't moved past that. They are like, don't 384 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: compare me against the opponent, Like, don't compare me, you know, 385 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: against the almighty, compare me against my opponent. Well, guess 386 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: what people actually want this guy? They do, like, sure 387 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: he has a ceiling, but he has just enough people 388 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: in the swing states where he's beating Biden to win this. 389 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: So it's like they can't use that Trump is not 390 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: electable argument anymore. He probably will not be indicted before 391 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: election day, so they need to also get that off 392 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: the table. They have to treat him seriously, and they can't, 393 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: like they can't just you know, hope that Trump's acts 394 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: crazy and that makes Biden look better because the truth 395 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: is is like the crazy and the dementia and the 396 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: chaos of Trump, the porn stars of this that that 397 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: that's baked into Donald Trump. You know what you're getting 398 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: with Donald Trump. The problem right now with the Biden 399 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: campaign is that they're trying to say that Biden is 400 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,719 Speaker 1: elevated from Trump, but like we're not really seeing Biden 401 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: in an elevated way. Not saying he's at Trump's level, 402 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: but we're not really even seeing him that much. So 403 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: it's like, how what. 404 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: Does that mean? Right? When you when you sit around, 405 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 2: right and you just kind of slow that down, right 406 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: when you're kind of walking around with someone and I 407 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 2: really mean this seriously, like he's in reality right, Like 408 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 2: someone's like, no, no, no, you don't understand Joe Biden 409 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 2: is elevated from Donald Trump? Meaning what the He's beneath 410 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: their dignity at a point, they don't need to respond 411 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 2: to this, They don't need to engage. 412 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: On what. 413 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 414 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: No, In some ways, like it's interesting because like I 415 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: wrote about this too in the piece that like what 416 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: has the has the Democratic Party learned from the GOP primary? 417 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: Being above Trump not fighting him doesn't work? You know 418 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. All of these GOP candidates, none of 419 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: them were willing to get to Trump's level and really 420 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: go after him, and they lost. And so if Biden 421 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: like runs a campaign saying I'm elevated than Trump I 422 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: don't know that that's necessarily going to work. I mean, 423 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: they're saying now that he's trying to go Trump into 424 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: into the match and this and that. The truth is 425 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: both candidates are not really seeing them out there too 426 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: much either, because the cable news. Cable news doesn't know 427 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 1: how to handle Trump right now. They don't know when 428 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: to give him airtime when not to. They don't know 429 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: how much time to spend on him when not to. 430 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: They're kind of dreading the day he becomes the official 431 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: nominee because it's like then they're going to be called 432 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: up or giving Trump too much airtime. Maybe they don't 433 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: call out every Why how can they have an interview? 434 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: Anytime journalist has an interview with Trump, you look like 435 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: a heel. Seriously, no matter how you do it, you 436 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: look like a heel. He Hi Jackson the entire conversation. 437 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: They don't want to do that to their top talent. 438 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure they need to channel the Trump voters, but 439 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 1: they don't know that the only way they can do 440 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: is channel Trump voters. And so they have the reporters 441 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: go out there and talk to people and ask them 442 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 1: how they feel. I mean, that's pretty much it they 443 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: don't want to have Trump surrogates on the shows, like 444 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: at least on a lot of these networks, they don't 445 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: want Trump arrogates on because they have to spend the 446 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: whole time fact checking him, right, and so it doesn't 447 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: make for a good interview. So they just don't know 448 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: how to deal with Trump. So Trump gets his own ecosystem. 449 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: People aren't really paying attention, they're half listening, and they 450 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: don't really understand that he just said Russia can invade 451 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: a NATO country that doesn't pay its bills and what 452 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: that means. Right, And at the same time, it's not 453 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: like you're getting this strong message from Biden. You keep 454 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: hearing that he's not really there, and then you look 455 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: around and you're like, well, he's not really there. He's 456 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: not doing pass conferences, he's not sitting down with Nora 457 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: O'Donnell and doing the Super Bowl interview. He's on TikTok okay, fine, 458 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: but barely. I mean half the time you're seeing his 459 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: back in the interview. I thought that in the video. 460 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting, and it just feels very disingenuous, 461 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: like he's an old time politician, like let him do 462 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: the thing. That he does do this the network interview, 463 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: take the you know, stop trying to make him young, 464 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: but make him be out there and in charge. And 465 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: the background quotes that they give to these reporters, like 466 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: he cursed about net and Yahoo, he's angry about migration, 467 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: he's fighting everybody. He's just pissed off in charge and okay, great, 468 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: the background quotes and axios and the New York Times, 469 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,959 Speaker 1: the Washington Posts, they're not going to drive voters, Like 470 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: Don Stewart was right, run the tapes, show the video 471 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: because like that's going to be more compelling. Like they're 472 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: not using the power of video to their advantage in 473 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: the same way that Trump did. Because like I remember 474 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 1: when I was covering the Trump campaign, I'm sorry, the 475 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: Trump presidency. He was constantly letting the press inside the 476 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: Oval office at all times, even if like you have 477 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: Caitlin Colin screaming at him about Michael Cohen and whatever 478 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: porn star in the minute, like right in front of 479 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: Angela Merkel and she's like, whoa whatever. It's Trump being 480 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: like looking like a president sitting next to a leader, 481 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 1: screaming at the press, and you see him doing his 482 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: job in some way, right, you see him being like 483 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: whether you consider it presidential or not. Like, remember when 484 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: he brought the videos into the cabinet breath things and 485 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: at his entire cabinets around He's like, what are you doing? 486 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: What are you doing? It was the Apprentice. He was 487 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: running the White House like it was the real you know, 488 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: the real White House of DC or like the Apprentice. 489 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: He knows, he understands producing. And the problem is that 490 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: they're not really letting Biden be produced well enough because 491 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: I think they're afraid that he might come off old, 492 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: like he might missed up, they might do something, you know, 493 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: he might he might look feeble, or he might not 494 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: seem you know, empower this and that, and so they 495 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,239 Speaker 1: bring in all these reporters and give them access. Now 496 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: they're giving a lot of reporters access so they can 497 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,360 Speaker 1: report back. Oh, he seems sharp. He seemed really with it, 498 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: and I see it. You know, the Washington Post got 499 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: an interview Axeos obviously Yorker. Yeah, so they're they're trying 500 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: different ways to make the point when really like run 501 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: the like just let the crew camera crews in there 502 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: and do what Trump did and just you got to 503 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: just throw cautions to the wind. 504 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 2: So I think that this is a so you said 505 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: something that I think is incredible, Right, that's a that's 506 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 2: like so revealing right in debilitating in this moment for 507 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 2: the White House, right, And I want to get deeper 508 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 2: on it psychologically, right, do they What you said, right, 509 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 2: is that the people around Biden, as they assess the 510 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 2: political situation, the conclusion that they come to is that 511 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 2: Biden exists in some morally superior position than Trump, and 512 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 2: therefore their engagement with Trump is put through that, to 513 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 2: that filter. And I just if I went into a meeting, 514 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 2: right as someone who's been in, you know, at a 515 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 2: top level of presidential campaign, right, losing presidential campaign that 516 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: was the nominee, Big, what the fuck? That's like nobody, 517 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 2: nobody right outside this room accepts. 518 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: That you gotta play, you gotta be defensive, you gotta fight, 519 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: that's the thing. But I think they're starting to do that. 520 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: I will say. I mean, according to Axios, they say 521 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,959 Speaker 1: he's going to start goating Trump and he's going to 522 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: try to bring on the the I guess engagement. But 523 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: I think people are going to want to see it 524 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: rather through truth social or this bite and not bye. 525 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: I think Essentially, the two men are gonna have to 526 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: sit there, stand there and have a bloody, you know, debate. 527 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,959 Speaker 1: Whether that happens or not, I don't know, but I 528 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: do think that like the past year or so, I mean, 529 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: they wouldn't even say Trump's name for a long time, 530 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: and neither would the candidates that were running against him. 531 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: How much free time did Trump get completely unattacked? It 532 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: was kind of incredible, right, And if anything, these all 533 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: these indict mens, they just further his narrative that he's 534 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: a martyr. Obviously untrue, But like, if you're only half 535 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: paying attention, you'd be like, wait a minute, why is 536 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: why does he have more indictments than al Capone? Do 537 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? It's just like, but you're 538 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: only half because you have to assume that most people 539 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: are half paying attention. It's actually it's actually so many 540 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: charges but not indictments. But it gets so confusing even 541 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: for me, I think, can I can everyone just keep 542 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: me up to date on every single trial that's going on? 543 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: And if I as a reporter of covering this every day, 544 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: and you as a political junkie and a reporter recovering 545 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: every day and we're still we're still kind of trying 546 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: to figure it out. American people are zoned out, and 547 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: they they might they're kind of like losing it in 548 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: the nuance they're they're losing it. They're playing like too 549 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: much of a nuanced political game in a lot of ways, 550 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,479 Speaker 1: like the way things were normally done. But again, like 551 00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: you and I are talking right now and you have 552 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: a huge following and people are watching you instead of 553 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: watching the traditional cable channels right now or then networks, 554 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: and how are they going to talk? And your audience 555 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: listens to you because you have authority, and so like 556 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: they're trying to play this game of well they say 557 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: they're trying to play the game of reaching out to influencers, 558 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: but I don't know. I think in some ways when 559 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 1: it comes to the press, they're still playing it a 560 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: little bit too traditional. They had a really unique experience 561 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. They really did COVID, Black Lives Matter, 562 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: George Floyd, everybody hates Trump, everyone's united. Biden doesn't really 563 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: have a message. It's just we need to get rid 564 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: of Trump. And that's a strong message. Right Everyone's out 565 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: there and ready to do its. Plus Trump tells all 566 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: of his voters don't vote early, you know, mail in 567 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: bouts are suspicious. He screws himself over, but everybody else 568 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: is united to vote against him. Now everyone's pissed at Biden. 569 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: The kids, you know, and students got their processing about 570 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: God's African American people, you know, Arabs. It's like he 571 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: needs to get them behind something that's like we hate 572 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: Trump because now they're like they've forgotten about the craziness. 573 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: They're having a nostalgia in weird ways. And I just 574 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: don't think that they figured it out yet. 575 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 2: So so I have. So there's two there's kind of 576 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 2: two things that I think that you know, we've talked 577 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 2: about in kind of around that. I think you're just 578 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 2: politically the way that I see the race, right, whoever's 579 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 2: going to lose the campaign is going to be the 580 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 2: person the race is about. The race has been about 581 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 2: Biden and his competence, feebleness, his lack of whatever. For 582 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 2: a lot of the last year. Trump has made it 583 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 2: about Biden. Hillary Clinton was in that campaign all the 584 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 2: way through the last week because of the race about Trump. 585 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 2: James Comy makes it about her enough. In the last week, 586 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 2: Trump narrowly wins, So Biden has to make the race 587 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 2: about Trump. And I wonder, right, as we as we 588 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,720 Speaker 2: like talk about this, whether you think that they understand 589 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,919 Speaker 2: that right, that the race it is either it's an 590 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 2: either or it's either a race about Biden or it's 591 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 2: a race about Trump. And there's a larger kind of 592 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 2: caveat involved in it, which is this the more chaos 593 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 2: there is, even if Donald Trump is the source of 594 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 2: the chaos. Right, chaos benefits Trump because the premise of 595 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 2: Trump is that he's a strong man who can control 596 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,839 Speaker 2: the chaos, and this is kind of fundamental strong man 597 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 2: one oh one. Right, there's contradictions in this. It doesn't 598 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense, right, but but it's important right 599 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 2: that the Biden team kind of understand this chaos benefits 600 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 2: Trump and whoever the race is about, is the person 601 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 2: in this dynamic who's going to lose. Do you think 602 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,280 Speaker 2: they understand those things? 603 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know. I mean there's also a 604 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: few other like facets to that, the fact that like 605 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: the people who truly love Trump love chaos too. They 606 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: believe it's a it's a way to rebuild and change 607 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: the system. Right, they use chaos as a tool. 608 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 2: They believe the chaos is a is a passage. 609 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: Right exactly. They believe they have to destroy to get 610 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: to what they want exactly, and that would probably be 611 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: like the core part of his base. But the other 612 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: thing is like chaos around Biden, which there is a 613 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: lot of chaos at least in the world. We have 614 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: Israel on Gaza, We've got Ukraine, and there is actually 615 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: a feeling of chaos around Biden as well. And when 616 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: you're the president, like that was the one thing that 617 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: really hurt Trump was there was just too much chaos 618 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,879 Speaker 1: around him during COVID and he's telling people to drink 619 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: like disinfectant and use ivermectin and everyone's dying in the 620 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: streets and they don't know what's happening, and it's like 621 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: this black lives matters, or there's too much chaos and 622 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: everyone decides we don't want chaos. We don't want it, 623 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But if there's chaos and 624 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: you're the president, that hurts you, right, But if there's 625 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,839 Speaker 1: chaos and you're running a I don't know it, chaos, yes, 626 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: probably helps Trump in some ways, and chaos hurts Biden. 627 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: And there's chaos around Biden too, So I don't know 628 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,879 Speaker 1: how you I mean you would, I don't know what 629 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: you would do in this situation as like a political 630 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: strategist chaos at the border, like Trump doesn't want didn't 631 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: want to pass that bill at the border because he 632 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: knew chaos at the border helps him and it hurts Biden. 633 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 2: And the last thing is like, speaking of which right, 634 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 2: does anybody in the Democratic Party that you talk to, 635 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 2: does anybody a Cafe Milano? Look to Democratic National Convention, 636 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 2: the Israeli War and the magnitude of the protests that 637 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 2: are possible, the total chaos at the Chicago Yeah, And 638 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 2: is that is that talked about? Are people worried about it? 639 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 2: Is it? Is it top of mind? Or we're one 640 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 2: hundred days? 641 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: I got a phone call, yeah, yeah, I got a 642 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: phone call yesterday because they allowed a group to organize 643 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: outside of the d n C. And someone I you know, 644 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: political operative that I know who's in that who's from 645 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: that area in Chicago, was like, it's going to be 646 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: a mess. They cannot be approving these people for pro permits. 647 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: They can't do it, and they're doing it the DNC 648 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: and well, the city of Chicago is doing it, and 649 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: it's just they're terrified. I don't know how they stop 650 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 1: the protests. That's going to be a huge issue for Biden. 651 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: It already is. I don't know if you've seen any 652 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: of the reporting about how they're actually vetting the audiences 653 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: at this point, and he goes on the stage, some 654 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: people are shouting four more years. Some of them are 655 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,760 Speaker 1: calling him geniside Joe. It wouldn't be any better with Trump. 656 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: Trump would try to turn Palace on into a parking lot, 657 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. But people don't know that. 658 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: They don't care that, and they're in some way they're 659 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: voting against their best interests by voting against Biden. But 660 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: they're just so angry, you know. I just interviewed Hill Harper. 661 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: He's running for Senate in Michigan. It's a long shot, 662 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,280 Speaker 1: but he said to me something that was really interesting, 663 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 1: because he talks a lot to the era of voters 664 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 1: in Michigan, about one hundred thousand of them and Dearborn 665 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: alone to determine, you know, the election in a big 666 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: way in the swing state. And he said that when 667 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,240 Speaker 1: he talks to Arab people, they say hey, and he says, 668 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: if you protest Biden by voting for Cornell West, a 669 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: third party or Jill Stein, we're just voting or not 670 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: coming out or voting uncommitted. You do realize that's a 671 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: vote for Trump. And he said to me that the 672 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: voter that one of the Muslim leaders explained to him, 673 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: you don't understand our culture. We'd rather be stabbed in 674 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: the faith than in the back. And so that's how 675 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,920 Speaker 1: they feel about Biden. And he says the black community 676 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: has a similar feeling. They feel like they're being taken 677 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,720 Speaker 1: for granted by the Democrats, like they're so always supposed 678 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: to show up, and they want to send a message too. 679 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: And there's also and I just don't I mean, I'm 680 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 1: going to this victory party tonight at Trump's mar Lago. 681 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 2: You know, we speak. It is the afternoon of Super Tuesday, 682 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 2: and you know Trump, I guess we have sixteen states, 683 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 2: one territory, and Donald Trump's sent a sweep the table tonight. Right, 684 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 2: we'll find out wherever the you know, across the states, 685 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 2: you know where you know Nikki Haley's aggregate number is. 686 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 2: But you're going tomorrow a lago. You're going to the 687 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 2: victory party. I guess we anticipate Trump will go out 688 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 2: and say, you know, I'm the Republican nominee tonight, you 689 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 2: know officially, you know that crosses that line, you know, 690 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 2: where you become the presumptive nominee of the party. The 691 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 2: stuff matters because you want the keys to r NC right, 692 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 2: all the money, all the accounts, all. 693 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: The shit, Ron McDaniel. 694 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 2: You want to get your people in, their people out, 695 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 2: and all that stuff that comes with that. So you're 696 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 2: off tomorrow Lago, which I wanted to ask you about, 697 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 2: you know, right down to like what is it like 698 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 2: to go intomorrow Lago and all of that. But so 699 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 2: talk talk about tonight at Mara Lago. What you're doing, 700 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 2: where you're going, what you expect the mood to be. 701 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, this is like one of the 702 00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,439 Speaker 1: best weeks Trump has ever had when you think about 703 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: the Supreme ruling that said that he couldn't be taken 704 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: off the ballot. He's having a strong week. You know, 705 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 1: he's going to go out there with a victory party. 706 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: He'll probably win every state. Obviously, the kind of elephant 707 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: in the room is all the people who still vote 708 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: for Nicki Haley. But it looks like nine out of 709 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: ten Republicans are still standing by Trump. Think about Trump, 710 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: it's like you can never really pin him to a 711 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,479 Speaker 1: wall in any policy issue, right. He muddles everything. He's 712 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: just all over the place, and that's sort of what 713 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: keeps I think he sees that as a way, like 714 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,399 Speaker 1: almost like as a salesman, where you yes man, no man, 715 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 1: tell everybody a different story. That's the way he I 716 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: think he thinks he can bridge his coalition right, yeah, 717 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: right to life sixteen weeks. I don't know, you know, 718 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 1: it's like he keeps everything super nebulous and you can't 719 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,239 Speaker 1: really understand. Even as a reporter, you can't really pin 720 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,400 Speaker 1: him to anything right, changes his mind about things just 721 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 1: you know, finger to the wind whatever. So it'll be 722 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: interesting if he comes off with it with a bit 723 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: more like a moderate tone, realizing like it's time to 724 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: coalesce now that he is, then I we're pretty sure 725 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: nikkiy Haley will we'll step down. And it's been interesting 726 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,359 Speaker 1: to watch her how victory speeches along the way, even 727 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: though they were concessions speeches. I wonder what her real 728 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: concession speech will sound like, and if she comes out 729 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,840 Speaker 1: guns blazing against Trump in terms of just going. 730 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:17,839 Speaker 2: When do you think she gets out? 731 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: But tonight? Yeah, okay, yeah, I think it's this is 732 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: this is it. She said, I'm not going to go 733 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,479 Speaker 1: on past Tuesday. I think she knows it's her time. 734 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 1: We'll see what she says. 735 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 2: I mean, is she gonna get in line or is 736 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 2: she gonna. 737 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,800 Speaker 1: She'd probably do like a Ron de Santis or something 738 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,919 Speaker 1: like that, but who knows. I mean, maybe she sees 739 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 1: the future for herself that the No Labels party or 740 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,360 Speaker 1: no movie. She realizes what I think a lot of 741 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 1: people are seeing. She doesn't have a future in the 742 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: Republican Party. And maybe she thinks, you know what, throw 743 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: caution to the wind. I'm going to run as a 744 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,400 Speaker 1: third party no label scan that to take out Trump. 745 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,839 Speaker 1: I don't see that as her character, Like she doesn't 746 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: seem like a chaos agent to me, and like the 747 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,359 Speaker 1: kind of person who just throws everything away. I mean, 748 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: she wouldn't get back on the board at Raytheon if 749 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,240 Speaker 1: she did that, right, She's not going to make millions 750 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: of dollars. She can't be secretary of State and Trump's 751 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,879 Speaker 1: you know, administration or possibly vice president because some could 752 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: argue she would be a useful vice president to you know, candidate, 753 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: to bring over those moderates to Trump. But yeah, I 754 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,880 Speaker 1: mean it's also just like the whole thing of going 755 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 1: into mar a Lago. It's like exactly like in my mind, 756 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:27,760 Speaker 1: it's what an American like thinks Versailles is. Like everything 757 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: is gilded and there's these pillars, and it's absurd, and 758 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: the people are kind of tacky, and it's just kind 759 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,040 Speaker 1: of this whole like fan club trump pets that love it. 760 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 1: It's like it's adoring fan club. It's like a king. 761 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: It's really like the court. It's the mar Lago court, 762 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: and you've been invited to the court essentially, And yeah, 763 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: we're pressed, so we obviously have our own space and everything. 764 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: But I'm always just like interested to see everyone milling about. 765 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,799 Speaker 1: I've been before without like as a member of press, 766 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: just as someone's guess, because I'm always trying to like 767 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: get the vibe on the ground there. But Trump, I remember, 768 00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: had a model of the Air Force one he wanted 769 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: to change the colors, right, and he put that out there. 770 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,600 Speaker 1: He would put Yeah, I'm sure if it was up 771 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: to him, he could put all his classified documents out 772 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: as brochures on the living room area for people to 773 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 1: look through. You know, this is he doesn't get to 774 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: stay in the White House forever, but he gets his 775 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,120 Speaker 1: own kingdom, right, and he's kind of trapped in there. 776 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 1: He can't go anywhere but mar A Lago, so it's 777 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: his playroom. And I'm always sort of you're curious to 778 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,919 Speaker 1: see what he's highlighting, who's there, how many pole are there, 779 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,439 Speaker 1: like just to kiss it ass with the vps all 780 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: hoping to you know, I'm sure Tim Scott will be 781 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 1: there with his fake wife, fiance whatever. And it's a show. 782 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm making two light of it, but it's 783 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:47,799 Speaker 1: kind of. 784 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 2: An incredible menagerie of human nature. 785 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,279 Speaker 1: Of course. Oh yeah, I felt I actually the first 786 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,839 Speaker 1: I covered Brexit before I covered Trump. I know, it's 787 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:00,839 Speaker 1: kind of weird. I was living in brus but I 788 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: was around sort of real courts and real like I 789 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,799 Speaker 1: had gone to the actual Versailles and I'd seen, you know, 790 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,240 Speaker 1: places that had this opulence of like the old world, 791 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: and I felt I never felt more culture shock when 792 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 1: I showed up at mar A Lago after he won, 793 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, what is this 794 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,120 Speaker 1: tack he plays. I'm in right now. This is exactly 795 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: like the most American horrible version of the old glamour 796 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 1: of you know, the old world. But I don't like 797 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,319 Speaker 1: see the more the more we talk about it, though, 798 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,839 Speaker 1: I start to think like there's just such a big 799 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: subset of people, like in the way that like Democrats 800 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,959 Speaker 1: are terrified and that Trump will win. I don't think 801 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 1: that Republicans are terrified that Biden will win. And that's 802 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: the difference too. They have a different swagger about it. 803 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 1: They're not like they're not like, oh my god, it's 804 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,480 Speaker 1: the end of times. It's like if Biden wins, I 805 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,359 Speaker 1: think they're just like they probably some of them would 806 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 1: probably be happy to see Biden win, don't you think. 807 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 2: I think? I mean, I think like this. 808 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,720 Speaker 1: Is professional Republicans in Washington for sure. 809 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,760 Speaker 2: For sure. You know, they want they want they want 810 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,479 Speaker 2: this to end, right, they want Trump to they want 811 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,399 Speaker 2: Trump to got right, you know, they want they want 812 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,799 Speaker 2: the madness to stop, right and there you know, they 813 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 2: all know their lashed to the bow of the ship 814 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,359 Speaker 2: till it's over, right. 815 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,200 Speaker 1: I mean, they know there's tons of money to be 816 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,759 Speaker 1: made of Trump wins, right, there's tons of thought to 817 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,160 Speaker 1: grift off of, but. 818 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 2: You can't. There was just a story out about Lindsey Graham, 819 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,359 Speaker 2: and I just like, I literally I spent a year 820 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:43,359 Speaker 2: and a half with the guy right the country. And 821 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:50,120 Speaker 2: so there's a there's a there's a it's an incredible 822 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 2: thing to almost every single person you ever worked with 823 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 2: in a business that like fire, some element of conviction involved, right, 824 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 2: otherwise it's just all insanity, right, it's all just it's 825 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 2: just all pure right. It's then that literally like almost 826 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 2: without exception, like everyone everyone got like in line with 827 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 2: this ultimately, right, And so I think it's all it 828 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,560 Speaker 2: all has like degrees, right, there's all degrees to it. 829 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean people out of fear, you know. 830 00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,640 Speaker 2: In the end though, Like the biggest thing is people 831 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,360 Speaker 2: get in line, right, People people get. 832 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,279 Speaker 1: They don't want to be Liz Cheney. They don't want 833 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: to be Adam Kinsinger, they don't want that humiliating defeat, 834 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,160 Speaker 1: they don't want to be the Murtyrs. 835 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 2: And so there's something that you know, people want to 836 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,959 Speaker 2: stay there in this like small kind of terrarium for 837 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 2: forty years, right, and like and and I just like 838 00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 2: listening to you described like moreco The only thing like 839 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,799 Speaker 2: I can, like I can say about it right is, 840 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,160 Speaker 2: you know, as somebody who grew up in New Jersey, 841 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,720 Speaker 2: guys from fucking Queen's right, you know, right. 842 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,120 Speaker 1: Like this like tacky, big house and queens right. That 843 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:22,800 Speaker 1: was basically it look like right, and. 844 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:30,400 Speaker 2: It's and but but the Biden people like, by and 845 00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:36,480 Speaker 2: large right, they're just in their own world. It sounds 846 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:42,960 Speaker 2: like where things will snap into place later because when 847 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:48,759 Speaker 2: people focus and they remember they. 848 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,320 Speaker 1: Are they're basing it on a lot of what it's 849 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,400 Speaker 1: like too many things that are not certain. I don't 850 00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,040 Speaker 1: since there's like a real strategy unless they're holding it 851 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,720 Speaker 1: so close to us that like even we're not seeing 852 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,600 Speaker 1: it because you work in this business. You see around corners. 853 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,920 Speaker 1: I'm not seeing anything. And I've just seen that some 854 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,279 Speaker 1: of their old arguments about Trump's ue lictability are just 855 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 1: gone out the window. You know, for a year they've 856 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,719 Speaker 1: said that Trump is intelectable, that's it, and it's like, 857 00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 1: actually looks like he is, and they are basing it 858 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 1: on Dobbs. We know that, and they just think that 859 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,760 Speaker 1: once it becomes clear it's a real election against Trump 860 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 1: and Biden, that people will choose Biden. But it looks 861 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,360 Speaker 1: like independents are even split. So it's just their initial 862 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: argument is to me, is dead. So it makes me 863 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,160 Speaker 1: wonder what is their next argument. And if it's just 864 00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 1: democracy and abortion. Democrats in town, people who have worked 865 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,840 Speaker 1: with these people, they know they don't think that's enough, 866 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,719 Speaker 1: Like you still have to sell a product, still need 867 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,759 Speaker 1: a person, still need a message. I don't know what 868 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,160 Speaker 1: the next term is for Biden. I know what it 869 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,120 Speaker 1: is for Trump, so I know exactly what it is 870 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:05,120 Speaker 1: for Trump. Deportation, everybody's dictator day one, you know, deep 871 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,640 Speaker 1: state explodes if he's able to pull any of this off. 872 00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:09,680 Speaker 1: A lot of the Democrats I talked to are like, 873 00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,160 Speaker 1: we just need to win in the House as a 874 00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,000 Speaker 1: balance to this craziness. That's what they're praying for right now, 875 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,360 Speaker 1: and they're investing a lot of money into it. But 876 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,359 Speaker 1: your your political strategist, like, what kind of advice would 877 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,239 Speaker 1: you give Biden right now? 878 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 2: Got to take to fight to Donald Trump about about 879 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,440 Speaker 2: big things? Right, there's big things happening in the in 880 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:39,399 Speaker 2: the world. Right. Arguments that Vladimir Putin is make our 881 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:44,680 Speaker 2: identical right to an argument that someone speaking German made 882 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,839 Speaker 2: right in nineteen right, thirty seven, nineteen thirty eight. 883 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,720 Speaker 1: But that's the democracy argument, and they may lean into that. 884 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,440 Speaker 2: It's part of it, right, but like, but it's broader 885 00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,400 Speaker 2: than that. Right. It's so for example, the black woman 886 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 2: in Ohio who at twenty five weeks, four days short 887 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:11,360 Speaker 2: of the twenty six week ban, has vaginal bleeding, goes 888 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 2: to the emergency room. What happens, right, The ethics committee 889 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,080 Speaker 2: meets for eight hours, and so what does she do? Right? 890 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,960 Speaker 2: She says fuck it and walks out of the hospital 891 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,360 Speaker 2: and goes home, comes back the next day, right, still 892 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,120 Speaker 2: isn't seen. The third day is when she has the miscarriage. 893 00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,360 Speaker 2: And though they drop the charges, right, she's prosecuted. 894 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,000 Speaker 1: The question is inanity? 895 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 2: Right? 896 00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:39,080 Speaker 1: Right? 897 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 2: That woman live in a democracy? And I would argue 898 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:51,960 Speaker 2: she doesn't. Right. And so when you talk about democracy right, 899 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,120 Speaker 2: there is a framework to do it right that Franklin 900 00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,920 Speaker 2: Roosevelt speech to Democratic Convention in nineteen thirty six, right, 901 00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:04,040 Speaker 2: is that framework right where he talks about right, there 902 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,840 Speaker 2: was a king and we overthrew the king. But now 903 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,080 Speaker 2: there's a new type of king. All of the rich. 904 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:14,600 Speaker 1: Piece and he's at mar A Lago. 905 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,360 Speaker 2: So there's a way in the end. Right, it's a 906 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,400 Speaker 2: communication business. Right, it's about. 907 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,319 Speaker 1: It is, and that's where they're struggling. 908 00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,360 Speaker 2: And that's and that's where they're and that's where. 909 00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,720 Speaker 1: But it's not the problem is is that your message 910 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:35,280 Speaker 1: is very strong, it's incredibly strong. It's the person who's 911 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,279 Speaker 1: giving the message too, and that's what they need to 912 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:39,840 Speaker 1: work on. It's like they need. 913 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:44,200 Speaker 2: To well, there's nothing to work on. Eighty one. He's 914 00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 2: a he's a fully formed, fully and. 915 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,520 Speaker 1: The whole message that Trump is more demented or he 916 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:55,720 Speaker 1: messes up names like again baked into Trump and Trump 917 00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,160 Speaker 1: just seems younger. And we voted for Biden when he 918 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,359 Speaker 1: was Trump's age, but we were like voting for him 919 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:06,719 Speaker 1: thinking okay, it's a bridge. Right. Well, apparently that was 920 00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:08,960 Speaker 1: a met Yeah, apparently that was just a metaphor. It 921 00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,919 Speaker 1: was not you know, but that's the thing, like they're 922 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,480 Speaker 1: trying to sell. Yes, people were willing to vote for 923 00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,040 Speaker 1: Biden at seventy seven, but are they willing to vote 924 00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,439 Speaker 1: from an eighty one Trump seventy seven turning seventy eight? 925 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,359 Speaker 1: And I think that to me, that's one of their 926 00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,480 Speaker 1: weaker lines, is that Trump is as old as Biden. 927 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:27,880 Speaker 1: He just doesn't give off the same energy. Biden was 928 00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,560 Speaker 1: different when he ran and when he was seventy seven, 929 00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,000 Speaker 1: although it was you know, it's a different time. It 930 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,719 Speaker 1: was COVID. Again, it's so many hypoth like, there's a 931 00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,719 Speaker 1: lot of hypotheticals. I do. I think your argument is 932 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,880 Speaker 1: super powerful. I think the abortion argument killed that you know, 933 00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,280 Speaker 1: Republican And I'm blanking on his name right now in Kentucky, 934 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,040 Speaker 1: that strong ad with the girl i'd got an abortion 935 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,839 Speaker 1: because she was being arlsted by her stepfather. They can 936 00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: do that, you know, and tie Biden into that and 937 00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,280 Speaker 1: Trump into that or like make it a cause effect. 938 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,920 Speaker 1: This is like the work of ad makers, right like. 939 00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,239 Speaker 2: So like that to me, Like I'm curious, like what 940 00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,560 Speaker 2: that means, like on all sides, right, Like what does 941 00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:13,279 Speaker 2: everybody think is going to happen? You know? I mean, 942 00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,839 Speaker 2: he like a lot of things can happen, right, I don't. 943 00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,880 Speaker 2: I don't mean to trivial at all, right, Like a 944 00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:23,560 Speaker 2: lot of terrible things can happen. But I'm just curious. 945 00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,640 Speaker 1: We've seen the impact, we seem like the impact on 946 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,439 Speaker 1: his policies and his decisions, like the court Roger Swave 947 00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,520 Speaker 1: was overturned. It's a huge problem women experiencing a day 948 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,480 Speaker 1: to day in their lives. It's affecting obviously poor women. 949 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:39,799 Speaker 1: It's terrible. It's just like it's a huge consequential thing. 950 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,080 Speaker 1: At the same time, you know, the steal tariffs that 951 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,879 Speaker 1: he passed against China, Biden's still using them NAFTA when 952 00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,680 Speaker 1: he ripped that up, we're still using that same trade agreement. 953 00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:50,959 Speaker 1: And so like, there are some parts of the Trump 954 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,040 Speaker 1: administration that they've kept, including like they kept Title Mind 955 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,920 Speaker 1: for a while out on the border, and like people 956 00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,000 Speaker 1: kind of see it both ways. And I don't think 957 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,279 Speaker 1: they can imagine Trump quite as a dictator, even though 958 00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,439 Speaker 1: he says he's going to be one, because like you said, 959 00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,840 Speaker 1: there is a check and balance in this country. But 960 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, because again, like it's the little decisions 961 00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,239 Speaker 1: that can end up not little, but like appointing a 962 00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,120 Speaker 1: Supreme Court justice a huge decision. 963 00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:21,640 Speaker 2: Apparently stuff, right, it all cascaded down, right, it all right? 964 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:23,040 Speaker 2: Poor people? 965 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,600 Speaker 1: Right, Yes, it's always poor people, it's like, and it's 966 00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,880 Speaker 1: affecting them, that's the thing. And so these people in 967 00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,600 Speaker 1: the professional class, like maybe they don't really care because 968 00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,759 Speaker 1: they know their lives are going to be fine. Yep, 969 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,040 Speaker 1: they know their lives are going to be fine. And 970 00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,920 Speaker 1: again a lot of these Democrats do in the professional class. 971 00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,799 Speaker 1: They did come in their wide eyed working for their 972 00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,080 Speaker 1: congressman and their senator, believing in something, and then they 973 00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,680 Speaker 1: obviously saw dollar signs. They didn't come they didn't become 974 00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,080 Speaker 1: a they didn't come to you know, go to school 975 00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,040 Speaker 1: at Georgetown or America, or come from whatever state school 976 00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,799 Speaker 1: to you know, show up in DC. They thought they 977 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,959 Speaker 1: were changing the world. And I think think everybody still 978 00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,520 Speaker 1: has that inside of them. And they're obviously Democrats for 979 00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,440 Speaker 1: a reason, and Trump is like the antithesis of that 980 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,720 Speaker 1: and everything that they fought for. So I think there's 981 00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,840 Speaker 1: also a real fear. But I also think when Trump 982 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,320 Speaker 1: comes into town, he's a wrecking ball and he changes 983 00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,719 Speaker 1: things so drastically that it's hard for them too to 984 00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,120 Speaker 1: do their jobs. Like it's hard for them to lobby, 985 00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,160 Speaker 1: it's hard for them to communicate to their bosses what 986 00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,600 Speaker 1: to expect next, it's hard for them to make inroads 987 00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:29,000 Speaker 1: in Trump world, like the way things were the polite society. 988 00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:31,759 Speaker 1: Like there's a reason why Trump world really can't go 989 00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,200 Speaker 1: to Cafe Milano. They have to go to the they 990 00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,440 Speaker 1: have to go to Trump Hotel. But I'm sure like 991 00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,359 Speaker 1: AOC would never be spotted in Cafe Milano either. It's 992 00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,000 Speaker 1: a different crowd, you know what I mean. And in 993 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,840 Speaker 1: a lot of ways they're nihilistic too. 994 00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,600 Speaker 2: So that's a great You gave us a great look 995 00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,960 Speaker 2: inside of it today to a unique culture capital where 996 00:56:55,480 --> 00:57:00,440 Speaker 2: you know was portrayed on the cable shows is ulick. 997 00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:04,320 Speaker 2: But there's a lot of chumminess in the green room always, 998 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:11,160 Speaker 2: and more share interest than we often talk about, but 999 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:16,400 Speaker 2: gets covered in Puck News all the time. Thanks plum, Eric, 1000 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,920 Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining us today. 1001 00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,080 Speaker 1: Thanks Steve, thank you so much. I'd love to have 1002 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,120 Speaker 1: you on my pot as well. Somebody's got to win. 1003 00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:27,440 Speaker 1: You were amazing guest and we'd love to have you 1004 00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,520 Speaker 1: on as we get into this time and. 1005 00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:37,480 Speaker 2: It's crazy, crazy year just getting started, two hundred forty 1006 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,640 Speaker 2: four days to go. Thank you for listening to my 1007 00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:45,200 Speaker 2: political commentary. If you like what you heard today, please 1008 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:50,640 Speaker 2: also consider subscribing to the Warning Daily newsletter on substack.