WEBVTT - America’s Cold Civil War + Trump Is DECIMATING American National Security

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, They're happy Monday, and welcome to another episode of

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<v Speaker 1>the Chuck Podcast. We'll tell you we are in Washington

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<v Speaker 1>and in the DMV we're having some amazing weather, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm telling you the following is not a coincidence. Literally

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<v Speaker 1>the day it seemed as if we got rid of

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<v Speaker 1>our humidity the day Congress left town. I mean, use

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<v Speaker 1>every stupid joke you want to make, but the hot

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<v Speaker 1>air leaves town and literally took the hot air with it.

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<v Speaker 1>We have had some incredible weather days here in the DMB.

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<v Speaker 1>There is nothing like living here in Washington when Congress

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<v Speaker 1>is not here. The traffic is better, the flowers are brighter,

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<v Speaker 1>the air is clearer. Anyway, I'm being I'm obviously being

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<v Speaker 1>a little a little snarky about this, but only a little.

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<v Speaker 1>It has been fascinating that once they left, it is

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<v Speaker 1>as if the sun came out and the bird started chirping,

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<v Speaker 1>and the flowers started blooming and all of those things.

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<v Speaker 1>Because it is one of those weird, weird times here

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<v Speaker 1>in Washington, where you know, people will regularly ask me, so,

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<v Speaker 1>how you doing. I'm like, well, my family's doing great,

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<v Speaker 1>personal life's doing great. Works, you know, even really enjoying

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<v Speaker 1>this new business ventures and all of this stuff, but

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<v Speaker 1>oh my god, the country's in trouble. And that's like,

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<v Speaker 1>it's this like this nagging thing. It's like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you I wish I were losing you know, I'm glad

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<v Speaker 1>not to have personal challenges, but it means I'm losing

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<v Speaker 1>sleep over over what's happening to our country collectively. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think we're all a little concerned about that. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna give you a little heads up what I'm doing today.

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<v Speaker 1>I interview with a terrific new book. Tim Winer has

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<v Speaker 1>written a slew of books about the defense, about both

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<v Speaker 1>the Pentagon, our national security world and intelligence, written a

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<v Speaker 1>number of books on the CIA. Has got a new

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<v Speaker 1>book on the c I A he spoke to, uh

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<v Speaker 1>the not counting Ratcliffe now, but the six all six

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<v Speaker 1>of the previous heads of the CIA that go back,

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<v Speaker 1>uh since nine to eleven. Uh And the CIA is

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<v Speaker 1>still trying to figure out it's mission, you know, in

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<v Speaker 1>a post nine to eleven world, uh in a in

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<v Speaker 1>a in a in a world where uh uh, the

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<v Speaker 1>CIA was asked to be uh more of a of

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<v Speaker 1>a military uh more more of a paramilitary organization than

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<v Speaker 1>it had been in quite some time, right after nine

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<v Speaker 1>to eleven, the impact that had h and the impact

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<v Speaker 1>the Trump administration's having, uh, and the trust or lack

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<v Speaker 1>thereof in the intelligence community. That goes both ways, right

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<v Speaker 1>Trump Trump doesn't trust the intel community. In the intel

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<v Speaker 1>community doesn't trust him. It is it is a it

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<v Speaker 1>is a recipe for concern.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And uh, look, it's a it's a pretty it's a

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<v Speaker 1>pretty star conversation that Tim and I have. But man,

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<v Speaker 1>he is he understands how the CIA works better than

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much anybody alive right now. And so I take

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<v Speaker 1>his warnings quite seriously and you should too. And in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>the timing of this interview, I interviewed him last week,

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<v Speaker 1>but it hitting today. Look, is President Trump even listening

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<v Speaker 1>to his intelligence and to the intelligence folks when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to what Putin's really up to? What does Putin

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<v Speaker 1>really want? It's pretty clear he doesn't listen to national

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<v Speaker 1>security and intelligence folks when it comes to how to

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<v Speaker 1>deal with Putin, or he wouldn't have given Putin a

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<v Speaker 1>summit on American soil. Meeting him in Alaska has got

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<v Speaker 1>everybody nervous. Giving a two bit a sort of tin

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<v Speaker 1>pot dictator like Putin. This is not a serious world leader.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a person who has nuclear weapons, so you

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<v Speaker 1>have to take him seriously. But as John McCain call me,

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<v Speaker 1>he's basically just, you know, a guy who runs a

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<v Speaker 1>gas station with with nuclear weapons. And yet Trump loves

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<v Speaker 1>to elevate him, and Putin loves that Trump loves to

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<v Speaker 1>elevate him. You know it is It's fascinating to me

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<v Speaker 1>that when the idea of this summit was out there,

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<v Speaker 1>immediately the Trump administration i e. Marco Rubio hinted that

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<v Speaker 1>this would be no summer would happen without Zelensky being involved.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe Trump and Putin would meet first and then Zelensky

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<v Speaker 1>would be involved. Then suddenly Trump just agrees to a

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<v Speaker 1>one on one summit. Maybe maybe Zelenski's there, maybe he's not.

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<v Speaker 1>So Already Putin is getting everything he wants and the

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<v Speaker 1>biggest danger here and this is going to dominate the week,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, This isn't I've got I've got something bigger.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to I want to focus on before we

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<v Speaker 1>get to the interview with Tim. But this is going

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<v Speaker 1>to dominate the week. And you know, the I think

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest concern Europe, Ukraine and for frankly, anybody that

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<v Speaker 1>wants a world that favors liberal, small l liberal democracy.

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<v Speaker 1>For those of you that want to take that word

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<v Speaker 1>and claim on saying something else, it is not liberal

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<v Speaker 1>as in an American ideological term, but liberal as in

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<v Speaker 1>the world order. Do you want to live in a

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<v Speaker 1>world where where there's essentially where democracy flourishes, or do

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<v Speaker 1>you want to live in a world where authoritarianism flourishes?

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<v Speaker 1>And there is a concern of all the Western world

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<v Speaker 1>that Trump wants a deal too badly. If he wants

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<v Speaker 1>a deal, if he goes into that summit with Putin

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<v Speaker 1>without Zelensky there and he wants a deal too badly,

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<v Speaker 1>he's going to end up giving away stuff that Ukraine's

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<v Speaker 1>not going to sign off on, and I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>Europe signs off on. And what happens then, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>does he get angry, does he side more with Putin?

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<v Speaker 1>It looked like he wanted to get tough with Putin,

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<v Speaker 1>and then all of a sudden he just rolled over

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<v Speaker 1>this week and said, sure, let's do a summit. So look,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll see how he handles this week. We'll see if

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<v Speaker 1>Zelensky is it really would be a huge I think.

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<v Speaker 1>I think at a minimum, he's got to bring Zelensky

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<v Speaker 1>to Alaska and and sort of force force the situation

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<v Speaker 1>if he really wants a deal. Look, I get that

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<v Speaker 1>he wants this deal. He's obsessed with somehow creating. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>he keeps talking about this Nobel Peace Prize. He's everything

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<v Speaker 1>Obama has he wants, right, I mean, who knows. At

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<v Speaker 1>some point he may wish Michelle Obama was the first

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<v Speaker 1>Lady instead of Malania. But it does seem as whatever

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<v Speaker 1>Obama got he wants, right, he's obsessed. The obsession Trump

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<v Speaker 1>has with all things Obama is quite something, and so

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<v Speaker 1>obviously because Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize, he wants

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<v Speaker 1>a Nobel Piece prize. Talking about all of these, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he goes out of his way. If he sees a

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<v Speaker 1>dispute between two countries, he inserts himself. I'll be honest,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't mind that he does that. I don't mind

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<v Speaker 1>that an American president wants to use the prestige of

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<v Speaker 1>the American presidency to try to bring peace. That is

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<v Speaker 1>a good thing. So I don't want to sit here

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<v Speaker 1>and say this is a bad thing. The concern you

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<v Speaker 1>have though, is how badly does he want to deal?

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<v Speaker 1>And that's got to be the concern when it comes

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<v Speaker 1>with Putin. How badly is he going to want to deal?

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<v Speaker 1>And does he give does he essentially give up so much?

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<v Speaker 1>And then what is Ukraine and Europe supposed to do

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<v Speaker 1>if Trump and Putin agree to something and Ukraine doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>want to agree to it. As the Lunsky keeps pointing out,

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<v Speaker 1>just trading Land is against the constitution of Ukraine. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe Trump doesn't care about Ukraine's constitution because frankly, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think he cares about America's constitution, which is the

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<v Speaker 1>focal focus of what I want to get out here

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<v Speaker 1>in a minute. But that is that is going to

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<v Speaker 1>dominate the week. It should dominate the week. But it

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<v Speaker 1>is interesting. You do get a sense that the people

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<v Speaker 1>around President Trump, namely Marco Rubio, since he is both

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<v Speaker 1>National Security Advisor, Secretary of State, head of the Archives.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know how many other jobs he's been handed.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe he's the next bedchair. We saw we have more

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<v Speaker 1>people with two jobs these days with the Treasury secretary.

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<v Speaker 1>Now he's running the hi RS. That's an interesting story

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<v Speaker 1>which I'm going to get to in a minute. But

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<v Speaker 1>the fact is there was an attempt at a check

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<v Speaker 1>and balance. Donald Trump didn't like that somebody pushed back

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<v Speaker 1>and refused to do something that was likely unconstitutional, So

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<v Speaker 1>he pushes Billy Long out. That is what happened, folks.

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<v Speaker 1>So that is a concern. But that does bring me

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<v Speaker 1>to this larger, the larger issue we're ald dealing with

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<v Speaker 1>right now. So when you look at what's happening with redistricting,

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<v Speaker 1>redistricting is is just a It's just the latest skirmish

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<v Speaker 1>between what is turning into a cold civil war. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>this way, this is what it is. I hate using

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<v Speaker 1>that rhetoric, I using those words, but what else are

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<v Speaker 1>you going to describe it. We are literally having a

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<v Speaker 1>redistricting war between the states right now, and we have

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<v Speaker 1>governors who have decided they don't care about the minority

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<v Speaker 1>rights in their own states. Greg Abbott doesn't care. If

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<v Speaker 1>you don't agree with Greg Abbott, he is going to

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<v Speaker 1>force his will upon you in the state of Texas.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you don't agree with Cavin Newsom and how

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<v Speaker 1>they're going to he's going to force his will upon you.

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<v Speaker 1>This is not this is not what the founders intended.

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<v Speaker 1>But look, let's I mean, look, I'm obviously pretty critical

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<v Speaker 1>of how the Democrats have responded to the Republicans. But

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<v Speaker 1>make no mistake, it is Donald Trump and the Republican

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<v Speaker 1>Party are creating this unprecedented challenge to this to our

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<v Speaker 1>constitutional republic. Okay, on so many levels, redistricting is really

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<v Speaker 1>just the tip of the iceberg. This is not a

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<v Speaker 1>policy fight. This isn't the use partisan back and forth.

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<v Speaker 1>It is a direct stress test of whether our constitutional

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<v Speaker 1>system actually works. When a president and his party decide

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<v Speaker 1>they don't have to care about the limits that are

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<v Speaker 1>written down on paper. Okay, he is Spinello. Trump has

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<v Speaker 1>spent years, parts of his first term, and much so

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<v Speaker 1>far of these first two hundred plus day bending and

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<v Speaker 1>breaking the guardrails of the of the Republic. He's weaponized

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<v Speaker 1>federal agencies for personal vendettas. He's ignoring constitutional boundaries on

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<v Speaker 1>executive power, treating the Justice Department in his personal law firm,

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<v Speaker 1>unilaterally imposing tariffs for reasons that have nothing to do

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<v Speaker 1>with trader law. That's unconstitutional. I think the courts are

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<v Speaker 1>going to figure that out soon enough. And the GOP

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<v Speaker 1>from its leadership to its so called moderates in the

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<v Speaker 1>party have all chosen to enable him. They've confirmed his

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<v Speaker 1>most troubling cabinet choices, including one who is wrecking America's health,

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<v Speaker 1>which I talked about last week. They've refused to conduct

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<v Speaker 1>meaningful oversight over these horrendous decisions. They've allowed the constitutional

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<v Speaker 1>tools that the founders gave them. They're in their hands

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<v Speaker 1>and they're just gathering dust. But here's the part that

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<v Speaker 1>people on the left don't want to talk about. The

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<v Speaker 1>Democratic response is pretty troubling because right now, as a party, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>as an official party apparatus, they've decided to frame this

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<v Speaker 1>moment as a war, right, Okay, you got to fight

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<v Speaker 1>fire with fire. That we're in a this is an

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<v Speaker 1>unprecedented moment. So they're framing as a war. And when

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<v Speaker 1>you tell yourself you're in a war, you start rationalizing

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<v Speaker 1>things you'd normally not do that you would say is

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<v Speaker 1>immoral or wrong or unprincipled, But hey, it's war and

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<v Speaker 1>all spare and war. Right, that's the mindset. For a decade,

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<v Speaker 1>the Democrats made the moral and civic case for less

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<v Speaker 1>partisan redistricting and in some cases to take it out

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<v Speaker 1>of politicians' hands altogether. The Demoocratic Party, many inside the party,

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<v Speaker 1>Eric Holder has been working on this. Others have spent

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<v Speaker 1>money on referendum around on states Florida and California and

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<v Speaker 1>Ohio and New York and Virginia and many of these

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<v Speaker 1>places too, because they argued it was the right thing

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<v Speaker 1>to do. And guess what, I think it is the

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<v Speaker 1>right thing to do. Take as much politics out of

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<v Speaker 1>this as you can.

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<v Speaker 2>So.

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<v Speaker 1>The Democratic Party, they championed independent commissions and they wanted

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<v Speaker 1>competitive maps. But now with Republicans openly wanting to break

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<v Speaker 1>the rules like they're doing in Texas, Democrats say, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to break them too. And if you criticize

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<v Speaker 1>that decision, as I've been doing, I've been told I'm naive,

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<v Speaker 1>that I don't understand the stakes, that you are not

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<v Speaker 1>taking this threat seriously. Oh contrary, my friend, I do

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<v Speaker 1>goddamn understand the stakes. And we are not replacing one unprincipled,

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<v Speaker 1>unconstitutional set of leaders with another set of on principled

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<v Speaker 1>and constitutional set of leaders. And that's the mistake people

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<v Speaker 1>keep making with Trump. Trust me, I'd love to tell

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<v Speaker 1>the guy all these things and do all these horrible things,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're not. You go low with him, and he wins.

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<v Speaker 1>What he wants is to drag his opponents into the

0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:23.160
<v Speaker 1>same immoral gutter that he lives in to make them behave.

0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.600
<v Speaker 1>He wants all of his opponents to behave as immortally

0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.680
<v Speaker 1>and a morley as he does. And the moment somebody does,

0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:33.080
<v Speaker 1>he wins, because then what does he say? See, I

0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.280
<v Speaker 1>told you the entire system is corrupt. They're all corrupt.

0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm just more honest about it. They're all like me.

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:42.679
<v Speaker 1>And we've seen it in little ways, in big ways.

0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Marco Ruby in his little hands, right, what was the

0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.319
<v Speaker 1>end of Marco Rubio's political career when he decided to

0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.320
<v Speaker 1>go low with Donald Trump? Anybody that is attempted to

0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:56.080
<v Speaker 1>go into the gutter with him has has only allowed

0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.840
<v Speaker 1>him to win. But let's go through the blueprint that

0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:03.600
<v Speaker 1>the Founders actually gave us. The Founder saw this danger coming,

0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.920
<v Speaker 1>maybe not Trump specifically, but the idea of a leader

0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.839
<v Speaker 1>or a faction that believed winning an election meant a

0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:16.400
<v Speaker 1>blank check to rule. Minority rights be damned. The Founders

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.440
<v Speaker 1>feared two things above all, another king and tyranny of

0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.560
<v Speaker 1>the majority. Here's what James Madison said in Federalists number ten,

0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.920
<v Speaker 1>if a majority be united by a common interest, the

0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:31.360
<v Speaker 1>rights of the minority will be insecure. His solution was

0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.480
<v Speaker 1>a very large republic. He wanted enough competing interest to

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:41.560
<v Speaker 1>make it quote very improbable, if not impracticable, impracticable, excuse me,

0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.640
<v Speaker 1>for one majority to unite and trample the rest that

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.800
<v Speaker 1>there would be so many sort of different groups of

0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.760
<v Speaker 1>majorities at any one time that would be a check

0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:58.560
<v Speaker 1>on any sort of dictator like figure. And in fact,

0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.200
<v Speaker 1>in Federalists fifty one he sharpened the point and he said,

0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 1>this ambition must be made to counteract ambition. The great

0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:11.600
<v Speaker 1>security consists in giving each department the necessary constitutional means

0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 1>to resist encroachments of the others. Checks and balances, folks, Okay,

0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 1>checks and balances. Hamilton added in Federalist seventy eight, when

0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:27.320
<v Speaker 1>he was defending the need for an independent judiciary, he said,

0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 1>neither force nor will, but merely judgment. That's the shield

0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.880
<v Speaker 1>against mob arrel. These weren't lofty ideals, they were tools.

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.760
<v Speaker 1>They were designed to be used when majority power got dangerous.

0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.840
<v Speaker 1>Well guess what, folks, Majority power is dangerous right in

0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:49.960
<v Speaker 1>this moment. We have the tools no one uses them,

0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.880
<v Speaker 1>or someone like Mitch McConnell is afraid to use them.

0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 1>He had the most important tool of all and he

0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.360
<v Speaker 1>failed the biggest test of his life. He will have

0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:04.320
<v Speaker 1>to live with that. Maybe he can't. But here's where

0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 1>we are. The tools are still there, but the people

0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:10.320
<v Speaker 1>holding them refuse to use them. The moderate or mainstream Republicans,

0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.240
<v Speaker 1>the ones who actually know Trump is wrong, have chosen

0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.080
<v Speaker 1>silence over action. They confirmed troubling cabinet secretaries that they

0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:21.560
<v Speaker 1>all knew were going to create problems, problems for our

0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.520
<v Speaker 1>health with Bobby Kennedy Junior at HHS. My god, it's

0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.560
<v Speaker 1>a bigger disaster than anybody could have predicted, and a

0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.600
<v Speaker 1>lot of people predicted this would be a disaster, but literally,

0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.760
<v Speaker 1>this man is a menace to society, a menace Pete

0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.200
<v Speaker 1>hag Seth, that Defense weighing over his head, lots of

0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:42.760
<v Speaker 1>concerns about readiness, lots of concerns about troop morale, all

0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 1>due to the bizarre leadership that hag Seth has had

0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:50.320
<v Speaker 1>at Defense. And again, multiple members of the Senate basically

0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:54.400
<v Speaker 1>got intimidated into voting for him. Jony Earns him and

0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Tom Tillis knew this guy was totally unqualified for the job,

0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:01.960
<v Speaker 1>and they got bullied by MAGA into supporting them. And

0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.600
<v Speaker 1>of course there's Tulsa Gabbert, who may or may not

0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:07.880
<v Speaker 1>be the single most important asset Rush has ever had.

0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.400
<v Speaker 1>Congress is also ignored on the unconstitional tariff abuse. They're

0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:15.720
<v Speaker 1>not the ones that have filed suit in the courts

0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.960
<v Speaker 1>that Trump is unilaterally using authority that belongs to the

0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:24.600
<v Speaker 1>legislative branch. It's others that have filed suit. The Congressional

0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.800
<v Speaker 1>Republicans have looked the other way as foreign aid was

0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.640
<v Speaker 1>gutted and the intelligence community hollowed out. They've not lifted

0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 1>one finger of oversight. Not one. It's not they're not

0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.240
<v Speaker 1>even You can't even say there's been a week check

0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.160
<v Speaker 1>on Trump. It has been no check on him at all.

0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Guess what.

0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:47.240
<v Speaker 1>The Constitution can't enforce itself without people willing to wield

0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:49.720
<v Speaker 1>those checks. All we have our words on a yellowing

0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:56.120
<v Speaker 1>parchment paper. All right, this isn't just a Washington politician problem.

0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:01.240
<v Speaker 1>Look at some of these entities. CBS, paramount CC is

0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:06.800
<v Speaker 1>slapping unconstitutional handcuffs on the News Division, blatant First Amendment violations.

0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Remember the First Amendment is specifically about what government can

0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:14.960
<v Speaker 1>can and can't tell you what to do. Okay on this,

0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.720
<v Speaker 1>but CBS has decided it's easier not to fight, so

0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:24.400
<v Speaker 1>they've accepted these unconstitutional handcuffs. And by them swallowing these restrictions,

0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:29.920
<v Speaker 1>they potentially create a precedent, and they're coming after other networks.

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Renting car has all but said this, He's coming after

0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:36.040
<v Speaker 1>NBC's coming after They're going after all the networks, and again,

0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.720
<v Speaker 1>totally unconstitutional for government to do what he's been trying

0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:46.160
<v Speaker 1>to do here. Founders Again, the founders did not write

0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.480
<v Speaker 1>the Constitution so it could sit in a display case

0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.160
<v Speaker 1>at Mark Rubia's National Archives. Remember he's currently also the archivist.

0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Right now, they're meant for it to have a living

0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.800
<v Speaker 1>set of guardrails, but the guardrails only work if someone

0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:04.520
<v Speaker 1>grabs the wheel. I want to call my friend Andrew Sullivan,

0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.960
<v Speaker 1>who just nailed it in this most recent substack, right

0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:12.680
<v Speaker 1>he said, this is a permanent stain, and that's scary.

0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.080
<v Speaker 1>Here's what he writes in the face off between this

0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:20.200
<v Speaker 1>man's wilful power and liberal democracy. Liberal democracy would just fold.

0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.639
<v Speaker 1>We didn't think that was going to happen. But it has.

0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:29.680
<v Speaker 1>We've watched Trump used tariffs, which is constitutionally Congress's job,

0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.800
<v Speaker 1>as personal punishment against countries that displeased him. Me and

0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:33.840
<v Speaker 1>what he's doing with Brazil.

0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:35.280
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.639
<v Speaker 1>Now, I'll defend what he's doing with India if he

0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:42.040
<v Speaker 1>really means it about Russia. But is this about Russia anyway?

0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.760
<v Speaker 1>But we digress. He declares every judicial ruling against him

0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.760
<v Speaker 1>is corrupt and every ruling for him is justice. That

0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.080
<v Speaker 1>is no small d democrat, that is somebody who does

0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.200
<v Speaker 1>not believe in the constitutional republic. He's turned the Justice

0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:59.159
<v Speaker 1>Department to his own enforcement arm, and he's abused the

0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:03.880
<v Speaker 1>pardon power, turned it into a loyalty test, freeze violent rioters,

0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:08.159
<v Speaker 1>promises immunity for crimes done in his name, and anybody

0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.720
<v Speaker 1>who pays it, he pays him or his family enough money,

0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:17.040
<v Speaker 1>they get they get a little extra something. I mean, look,

0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.720
<v Speaker 1>just go look at the lobbyist filings right now. Right

0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 1>those with the every country trying and company trying to

0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.000
<v Speaker 1>get an exemption from the tariffs have all hired the

0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:31.560
<v Speaker 1>same firms who know what the correct way to do

0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:37.760
<v Speaker 1>business with Trumpets. I think I think some in another

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.080
<v Speaker 1>life people would have just referred to this as mob rule.

0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:44.080
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to leave. I don't want to leave

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Tim Cook out of this moment. Apple CEO stands in

0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.480
<v Speaker 1>the Oval office and he hands Trump a golden plaque,

0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.000
<v Speaker 1>an engraved Apple glass, smiling for the cameras. Right, pay

0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.560
<v Speaker 1>the tribute to the king, to the mad camp Now,

0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.600
<v Speaker 1>I get it to Cook. This is a small gesture, Eh,

0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.320
<v Speaker 1>they look at it. The statue is nothing compared to

0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.560
<v Speaker 1>the damaged Trump could do to Apple's business. Okay, so

0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 1>I understand, and he's got a fiducial responsibility to his shareholders.

0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.000
<v Speaker 1>But I assume Tim Cook considers himself a patriotic American

0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.720
<v Speaker 1>and believes in the US Constitution because by doing what

0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.800
<v Speaker 1>he did, this is America's most famous company now, right,

0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:25.479
<v Speaker 1>the pre eminent corporation right, arguably the most valuable real company.

0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:27.800
<v Speaker 1>I know, Palanteer I think technically has a higher value

0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.280
<v Speaker 1>right now. But that is all speculative, like Apple is

0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.639
<v Speaker 1>essentially right, this is this is the symbol of an

0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:38.119
<v Speaker 1>American company in the twenty first century, all right, Apple,

0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:42.359
<v Speaker 1>what GM was, what GM and Ford were in the

0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:46.240
<v Speaker 1>fifties and sixties, That's what Apple is, right, And here

0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:50.760
<v Speaker 1>he is bending the knee, setting an example. What are

0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:56.760
<v Speaker 1>other corporate leaders supposed to do? Bend the knee or fight?

0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:02.399
<v Speaker 1>Nobody's fighting. All of these folks have constitutional tools to

0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:07.000
<v Speaker 1>fight this tyranny. The founders gave them all these tools

0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:11.320
<v Speaker 1>to do this. And everybody's surrendering, and everybody's surrendering for

0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:21.000
<v Speaker 1>self protection, political survival, shareholder price, maybe their own survival

0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:27.679
<v Speaker 1>in a corporation. All seems like good ideas until we

0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.879
<v Speaker 1>lose it all. We're not in a constitutional republic. If

0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:35.520
<v Speaker 1>we lose this democracy, you're going to lose a lot

0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:39.560
<v Speaker 1>more than a few dollars of price on apple shares.

0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:44.880
<v Speaker 1>So this gets me to what the Democrats are doing.

0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:48.000
<v Speaker 1>They're taking the bait. They've decided the only way to

0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:52.520
<v Speaker 1>fight is to act just as ruthlessly revenge redistricting in Illinois,

0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:56.000
<v Speaker 1>New York, California. And they tell themselves it's self defense,

0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.000
<v Speaker 1>but in reality, it's exactly what Trump wants to make

0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:03.520
<v Speaker 1>his opponents, his illegal and immoral game by his rules

0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:08.840
<v Speaker 1>in his universe, and here we are. It's the political

0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:10.480
<v Speaker 1>version of the old saying when you get into the

0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:13.280
<v Speaker 1>mud with a pig, you both get dirty, and the

0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:18.920
<v Speaker 1>pig likes it, replacing am and don't give me this

0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:22.800
<v Speaker 1>crap rationalize that. You know he's a bad mob boss.

0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:24.240
<v Speaker 1>You got to do whatever you cake, we'll be a

0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:31.880
<v Speaker 1>good mob boss. The answer is no mob bosses at all. Look,

0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:34.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't like the lazy comparisons to nineteen thirties Germany.

0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:39.280
<v Speaker 1>I hate the quote second Civil War predictions. I'd like

0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.080
<v Speaker 1>to believe that we're a lot better than that. And frankly,

0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:47.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, I sort of buy into to that thesis

0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:49.560
<v Speaker 1>that says I think it's Godwin's law when it comes

0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:51.840
<v Speaker 1>to the Nazis. You know that, you know, if you

0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:54.520
<v Speaker 1>can't make your point without invoking the Nazis, and you're

0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:56.840
<v Speaker 1>probably not very good at debating and making your point.

0:23:57.560 --> 0:23:59.760
<v Speaker 1>But let's be honest, it's a bit uncomfortable seeing how

0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:03.400
<v Speaker 1>many mistakes from the eighteen fifties, from eighteen fifties America

0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:06.160
<v Speaker 1>or pre war Europe in the early nineteen thirties are

0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:11.719
<v Speaker 1>happening again right here. The normalization of the unacceptable, the

0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:16.680
<v Speaker 1>rational rationalizing of just this once will breach our principle.

0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:20.359
<v Speaker 1>Just this once will do this because it's in the

0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:25.359
<v Speaker 1>name of something bigger and better. The founders gave us

0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:27.640
<v Speaker 1>these tools to prevent this. They feared a king, they

0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:30.720
<v Speaker 1>feared a united majority trampling on the rest of us.

0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:35.400
<v Speaker 1>They didn't imagine leaders who would just refuse to use

0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:38.280
<v Speaker 1>the tools. They didn't they'd come back here and be appalled,

0:24:38.880 --> 0:24:42.880
<v Speaker 1>be appalled. And here's the thing, you know right now,

0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:45.919
<v Speaker 1>both political parties only hear from the loudest voices, and

0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:48.440
<v Speaker 1>the loudest voices are angry, and they're in the base

0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:52.360
<v Speaker 1>base MAGA, and you have the progressive base, and they're

0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:55.760
<v Speaker 1>all on fire right now for various reasons. One is celebrating,

0:24:55.760 --> 0:24:59.919
<v Speaker 1>one is on fire and anger, okay, But the majority

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:02.920
<v Speaker 1>of us live somewhere in between those bases, and many

0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:06.680
<v Speaker 1>of us have tuned out. I haven't. I hope some

0:25:06.760 --> 0:25:09.280
<v Speaker 1>of you who were tuning out or tuning into me,

0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:12.080
<v Speaker 1>tuning into somebody who isn't going to sit here and

0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:14.760
<v Speaker 1>just tell you what you want to hear on stage left,

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:21.159
<v Speaker 1>stage right. I'm just trying to live in the real world.

0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:24.679
<v Speaker 1>I like a world where there is always look. I

0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:26.720
<v Speaker 1>think when one party goes too far and want the

0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:29.320
<v Speaker 1>other party to get power and drag them back. I

0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:32.639
<v Speaker 1>am one of those who believes that this country is

0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:35.879
<v Speaker 1>always better off when we just sort of we do

0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:39.159
<v Speaker 1>that little balance, not quite a rocking seesaw, but that

0:25:39.200 --> 0:25:41.920
<v Speaker 1>little balance that would go a little one way, a

0:25:41.960 --> 0:25:45.320
<v Speaker 1>little the other. And then I count on members of

0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:48.119
<v Speaker 1>both parties, even when they're in the minority or majority,

0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 1>to know when to work with the other side when

0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:56.280
<v Speaker 1>they realize, hey, this is like our health. I mean,

0:25:56.480 --> 0:25:59.520
<v Speaker 1>the idea that a majority of the US Senate can't

0:25:59.520 --> 0:26:02.040
<v Speaker 1>get up here and impeach this menace to society and

0:26:02.119 --> 0:26:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Robert F. Kennedy Junior, who is literally making decisions that

0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:10.359
<v Speaker 1>are going to kill people, and they're doing nothing about this,

0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:16.480
<v Speaker 1>nothing about this. And it's the independence. It's the people

0:26:16.560 --> 0:26:18.560
<v Speaker 1>here in the middle that are not being represented by

0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:21.800
<v Speaker 1>either one of these parties right now. These parties are

0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:28.480
<v Speaker 1>trying to protect their own They're trying to entrench their

0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:32.320
<v Speaker 1>own power, right Republicans are trying to save it and

0:26:32.320 --> 0:26:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Democrats are trying to entrench what they have to get

0:26:34.520 --> 0:26:38.200
<v Speaker 1>it back. But nobody is trying to think about what's

0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:40.240
<v Speaker 1>the right thing to do, what's the right way to

0:26:40.280 --> 0:26:44.720
<v Speaker 1>do this. Who's going to stand up because you know what,

0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:47.960
<v Speaker 1>redistricting blue states, that's the easy way out. You know what.

0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:51.000
<v Speaker 1>The hard way is running a campaign and defeating Greg

0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:55.240
<v Speaker 1>Abbott as governor, or going to win some legislative seats,

0:26:58.200 --> 0:27:01.480
<v Speaker 1>organizing in the state of Florida. That's the hard way.

0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:06.080
<v Speaker 1>The easy answer is an undemocratic power craft with your

0:27:06.080 --> 0:27:10.120
<v Speaker 1>own undemocratic approach. The hard way is to resist within

0:27:10.160 --> 0:27:13.159
<v Speaker 1>the law, within the constitution, and within your own principles,

0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:18.760
<v Speaker 1>even if it might cost you politically. Madison's warning still

0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:21.520
<v Speaker 1>sands of the majority be united by a common interest,

0:27:21.560 --> 0:27:24.560
<v Speaker 1>the rights of the minority will be insecure. And right

0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:27.120
<v Speaker 1>now the people who could stand up aren't standing up.

0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:31.199
<v Speaker 1>Leaders in both parties are failing this test. Nobody is

0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:35.760
<v Speaker 1>looking out for the best interests of how a very

0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:40.600
<v Speaker 1>fragmented society can live. We are a very fragmented society.

0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Not everybody was united on how whether we should even

0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:48.119
<v Speaker 1>revolt from the British and how to do it. But

0:27:48.160 --> 0:27:49.920
<v Speaker 1>they wanted to come up with a system that would

0:27:49.920 --> 0:27:52.359
<v Speaker 1>give everybody a chance, and everybody a voice, and everybody

0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:55.040
<v Speaker 1>a say, and everybody some protection. And the Bill of

0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:58.520
<v Speaker 1>Rights were designed not to help the majority rule, but

0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:03.560
<v Speaker 1>to make sure the majority didn't overrule and then run

0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:09.520
<v Speaker 1>over people's rights run over people's rights to on faith

0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:12.199
<v Speaker 1>or not to have faith. I mean, you look at

0:28:12.200 --> 0:28:15.520
<v Speaker 1>what Louisiana and Oklahoma are doing. They're shoving religion through

0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:21.359
<v Speaker 1>the public school system. That is not what the constitution

0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:25.120
<v Speaker 1>allows for, and that is unfair to the minority who

0:28:25.119 --> 0:28:28.119
<v Speaker 1>do not want If you want a religious based education,

0:28:28.160 --> 0:28:29.719
<v Speaker 1>you can go to a private school and do that,

0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:32.359
<v Speaker 1>but you don't use tax dollars to force it down people.

0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:40.240
<v Speaker 1>This is happening left and right these days. So if

0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:42.320
<v Speaker 1>nobody's going to stand up and defend the rights of

0:28:42.360 --> 0:28:44.360
<v Speaker 1>the minority, which again that's why we have the Bill

0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:50.000
<v Speaker 1>of Rights, was to defend those in the minority in

0:28:50.040 --> 0:28:53.320
<v Speaker 1>any given moment, in the minority, on speech, in the minority,

0:28:53.360 --> 0:28:58.440
<v Speaker 1>on religion, in the minority, on political power. They were

0:28:58.480 --> 0:29:00.360
<v Speaker 1>not to be thrown out of the country. They were

0:29:00.360 --> 0:29:02.719
<v Speaker 1>not to be thrown in jail. They were not to

0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:06.320
<v Speaker 1>be called treason. Is the most patriotic thing you can

0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:13.560
<v Speaker 1>do is to disagree with your president. There's nothing and

0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:16.560
<v Speaker 1>it's just as patriotic to disagree with them as it

0:29:16.600 --> 0:29:19.680
<v Speaker 1>is to agree with them. And sometimes it's just as

0:29:19.760 --> 0:29:24.840
<v Speaker 1>unpatriotic to agree with them. If you're doing it in

0:29:24.960 --> 0:29:30.760
<v Speaker 1>order to slim your fellow US citizen. So I couldn't

0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:34.000
<v Speaker 1>be more disappointed. There is literally zero leadership in the

0:29:34.040 --> 0:29:38.440
<v Speaker 1>Democratic Party that's standing on principle right now. We already

0:29:38.440 --> 0:29:43.440
<v Speaker 1>have a Republican Party that's principalists amoral at this point,

0:29:44.560 --> 0:29:47.960
<v Speaker 1>right Johnson and Thune are doing nothing here. Nobody is

0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:56.160
<v Speaker 1>standing up to this stuff. But the Democrats answer is

0:29:56.280 --> 0:30:01.040
<v Speaker 1>using tools and behaving in ways that is only going

0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:03.320
<v Speaker 1>to make it easier for him to get what he's

0:30:03.320 --> 0:30:11.040
<v Speaker 1>trying to get done, not harder. Look, the Democrats actually

0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:14.680
<v Speaker 1>had a much smarter way to resist Trump in the

0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:18.120
<v Speaker 1>first term, and a lot of Republicans stood up to

0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Trump in the first turn, and that was the proper

0:30:21.880 --> 0:30:26.320
<v Speaker 1>way to deal with a mad king, and the guardrails

0:30:26.360 --> 0:30:30.479
<v Speaker 1>got dented, but they worked. Nobody's even trying it that

0:30:30.520 --> 0:30:34.680
<v Speaker 1>way this time. That's a shame and that's a problem.

0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:40.120
<v Speaker 1>Before we get started with Tim Winner, I do want

0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:43.360
<v Speaker 1>to focus on the tragedy that unfolded at the CDC

0:30:44.680 --> 0:30:45.880
<v Speaker 1>because it dovetails.

0:30:45.920 --> 0:30:46.080
<v Speaker 2>Look.

0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:48.680
<v Speaker 1>My interview this week on Newsphere Sunday Night with Check

0:30:48.680 --> 0:30:52.680
<v Speaker 1>Todd is with Francis Collins, and first of all, if

0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:55.960
<v Speaker 1>you listen to nothing else. You need to listen to this.

0:30:56.600 --> 0:30:59.520
<v Speaker 1>Francis Collins wrote a song and it's kind of a

0:30:59.560 --> 0:31:02.880
<v Speaker 1>bluesy song, and it was It's It's it's lyrics. You

0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:05.120
<v Speaker 1>need to listen to the lyrics carefully. So after our

0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:08.320
<v Speaker 1>interview he asked if he could play. He brought his guitar,

0:31:08.600 --> 0:31:11.360
<v Speaker 1>and I thought, why not. And when you listen to

0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:13.640
<v Speaker 1>the lyrics, it's all about a man wants to make

0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:16.520
<v Speaker 1>the point that when it comes to disease, disease, they

0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:19.040
<v Speaker 1>don't they don't find out if you're a liberal or

0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:21.920
<v Speaker 1>a conservative. The disease comes for you. They don't find

0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:24.200
<v Speaker 1>out if you're rich or poor, disease comes for you.

0:31:25.080 --> 0:31:27.400
<v Speaker 1>But it's his way. He's looking for any way to

0:31:27.440 --> 0:31:32.880
<v Speaker 1>communicate to people that what what, hh, what nih has

0:31:32.920 --> 0:31:35.360
<v Speaker 1>been doing has been only for the betterment of the

0:31:35.440 --> 0:31:41.720
<v Speaker 1>human of human health, period and that this nonsense that

0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:46.600
<v Speaker 1>Kennedy has spewed is just that it's nonsense. It's complete

0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:50.280
<v Speaker 1>and utter nonsense, And it was just a very The

0:31:50.320 --> 0:31:52.920
<v Speaker 1>whole interview is very troubling when you just hear about

0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:56.680
<v Speaker 1>all all of the things that we're now that that

0:31:56.760 --> 0:32:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Kennedy has set us back on decades. If Kennedy went

0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:03.960
<v Speaker 1>away tomorrow and you could flip the switch, Francis Collins

0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:06.480
<v Speaker 1>told me that it would still take years to recover

0:32:06.880 --> 0:32:09.960
<v Speaker 1>from all the lost researchers who have been fired, who

0:32:09.960 --> 0:32:12.440
<v Speaker 1>are now leaving the country. In some cases, he said,

0:32:12.720 --> 0:32:16.720
<v Speaker 1>from Australia to France, to the UK, to Japan to

0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:20.840
<v Speaker 1>South Korea. All of these allies of ours who believe

0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:25.080
<v Speaker 1>in medical research are all recruiting all these people that

0:32:25.120 --> 0:32:30.920
<v Speaker 1>worked at nih SO. And obviously Kennedy's not going the

0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:35.480
<v Speaker 1>way tomorrow, so this damage is going to be exponentially

0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:40.760
<v Speaker 1>worse with every day he's there. But I don't want

0:32:40.760 --> 0:32:43.959
<v Speaker 1>to let this moment go without what letting you know what.

0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:47.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure some of you followed what happened. But late

0:32:47.480 --> 0:32:50.760
<v Speaker 1>last week a lone gunman opened fire on the Centers

0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:54.479
<v Speaker 1>for Disease Control and Prevention CDC, killed a police officer,

0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:58.400
<v Speaker 1>shattered some windows across the campus. CDC employees are obviously

0:32:58.400 --> 0:33:02.880
<v Speaker 1>in shock and in fear about what happened. So this

0:33:02.960 --> 0:33:06.000
<v Speaker 1>is a real moment. HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior

0:33:06.080 --> 0:33:09.520
<v Speaker 1>is in charge of the CDC. Now the CDC's chief

0:33:09.560 --> 0:33:12.880
<v Speaker 1>medical officer told staff on a Saturday morning call, we're

0:33:12.920 --> 0:33:14.920
<v Speaker 1>mad that this happened, and on that same call the

0:33:14.960 --> 0:33:19.520
<v Speaker 1>agency's new director, doctor Susan Monarez. She tried to reassure him,

0:33:19.960 --> 0:33:23.560
<v Speaker 1>but one employee asked her directly, quote, are you able

0:33:23.560 --> 0:33:27.600
<v Speaker 1>to speak to the misinformation, the disinformation that caused this issue,

0:33:27.920 --> 0:33:30.520
<v Speaker 1>and what is your plan forward to ensure this doesn't

0:33:30.560 --> 0:33:33.400
<v Speaker 1>happen again. Well, here's the issue. According to law enforcement,

0:33:35.080 --> 0:33:38.360
<v Speaker 1>the suspect that had become fixated on the coronavirus vaccine

0:33:38.720 --> 0:33:40.840
<v Speaker 1>and convinced that the vaccine was causing all of his

0:33:40.920 --> 0:33:45.200
<v Speaker 1>physical ailments inside the CDC. Many are seeing this attack

0:33:45.240 --> 0:33:47.920
<v Speaker 1>as part of a disturbing pattern where public health workers

0:33:48.320 --> 0:33:52.240
<v Speaker 1>have been targeted by political, verbal, and now physical assaults

0:33:52.240 --> 0:33:55.840
<v Speaker 1>ever since the pandemic began. So this is just violence

0:33:55.880 --> 0:34:00.400
<v Speaker 1>at the workplace. It was violence born from disinformation, the

0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:04.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of disinformation that's been allowed to fester, amplify, and fantastasize.

0:34:06.920 --> 0:34:11.240
<v Speaker 1>Much of this disinformation is courtesy of an anti vaccine

0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:13.759
<v Speaker 1>activist by the name of Robert of Kennedy Junior. Now,

0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:17.560
<v Speaker 1>of course, now he's a HHS secretary and he oversees CDC.

0:34:18.480 --> 0:34:21.640
<v Speaker 1>He never spoke publicly about this issue on Friday. By

0:34:21.719 --> 0:34:24.759
<v Speaker 1>late Saturday morning, according to one report, more than half

0:34:24.760 --> 0:34:28.200
<v Speaker 1>an hour after posting phishing photos on social media first,

0:34:28.960 --> 0:34:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Kennedy finally posted condolences on x and pledged to support

0:34:32.200 --> 0:34:35.720
<v Speaker 1>CDC employees. Later in that day did send an email

0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:38.280
<v Speaker 1>to the entire HHS workforce, and the email, he said,

0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:40.359
<v Speaker 1>this is a reminder of the very human challenges public

0:34:40.440 --> 0:34:44.000
<v Speaker 1>servants sometimes face, even in places dedicated to healing and progress.

0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:46.759
<v Speaker 1>But it also reinforces the importance of the work you

0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:51.000
<v Speaker 1>do every day. That was the official response. But let's

0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:55.319
<v Speaker 1>not forget the backdrop. Here's the backdrop. Kennedy spent years

0:34:55.360 --> 0:34:58.440
<v Speaker 1>calling the CDC quote a cesspool of corruption. That was

0:34:58.440 --> 0:35:01.120
<v Speaker 1>what activist Kennedy called it. He also referred to the

0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:05.359
<v Speaker 1>CDC once as a fascist enterprise. Robert of Kennedy, those

0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:07.640
<v Speaker 1>are the words he's used and again. He has been

0:35:07.719 --> 0:35:12.040
<v Speaker 1>called by Nature magazine the leading super spreader of health

0:35:12.080 --> 0:35:17.400
<v Speaker 1>misinformation and vaccine misinformation. He accused scientists of ignoring vaccine

0:35:17.480 --> 0:35:21.400
<v Speaker 1>arms feeding right into what the shooter claims to children,

0:35:22.160 --> 0:35:25.279
<v Speaker 1>and he compared them to the Catholic Church covering up

0:35:25.320 --> 0:35:28.400
<v Speaker 1>a child child sex abuse. He called the COVID vaccine,

0:35:28.640 --> 0:35:35.600
<v Speaker 1>the deadliest vaccine ever made. So that's the backdrop. This

0:35:35.640 --> 0:35:41.880
<v Speaker 1>stuff has real world consequences, misinformation and disinformation in particular,

0:35:43.120 --> 0:35:45.719
<v Speaker 1>and the weaponizing of it. Look, there's a lot of

0:35:45.760 --> 0:35:50.640
<v Speaker 1>social media companies that need to rethink how they've handled

0:35:50.680 --> 0:35:54.239
<v Speaker 1>Kennedy and how they handled health because they really put

0:35:54.320 --> 0:35:59.400
<v Speaker 1>up we don't control the distribution of good information the

0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:06.239
<v Speaker 1>tech company to do. Just remember that. So look, this

0:36:06.280 --> 0:36:10.560
<v Speaker 1>is this is the public record, This is Kennedy's public record.

0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:13.319
<v Speaker 1>This happened on Kennedy's watch. Now he's got to lead

0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:16.880
<v Speaker 1>the CDC. Nobody's going to trust him on the inside,

0:36:16.880 --> 0:36:19.319
<v Speaker 1>and nor should they. How do you expect them to?

0:36:20.000 --> 0:36:21.600
<v Speaker 1>The only thing I think we all should fear is

0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:23.920
<v Speaker 1>that if the CDC gets purged the way nih has

0:36:23.920 --> 0:36:30.319
<v Speaker 1>been purged. This is anyway, it's a rough moment. It's

0:36:30.320 --> 0:36:33.560
<v Speaker 1>a rough moment. But I want to quote Celine Grounder.

0:36:33.600 --> 0:36:36.799
<v Speaker 1>She's an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue and she put

0:36:36.840 --> 0:36:40.000
<v Speaker 1>it this way. The intersection of disinformation, conspiracy theories, and

0:36:40.000 --> 0:36:42.680
<v Speaker 1>political violence is getting scarier by the day. I'm very

0:36:42.680 --> 0:36:46.880
<v Speaker 1>worried about how this is now going beyond defunding of

0:36:46.960 --> 0:36:50.480
<v Speaker 1>infectious diseases in public health to political violence against the

0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:58.360
<v Speaker 1>people working in those fields. Leadership matters here, folks. I

0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:02.440
<v Speaker 1>think what he's already done are multiple impeachable fences. If

0:37:02.480 --> 0:37:04.839
<v Speaker 1>the US Senate would get off it's ours and do it.

0:37:07.040 --> 0:37:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Bill Cassidy said it was troubling what Kennedy did with

0:37:10.920 --> 0:37:15.200
<v Speaker 1>in the cuts to when he cut r mRNA funding

0:37:17.760 --> 0:37:23.200
<v Speaker 1>completely from NIAH, canceled all those contracts. I think it's

0:37:23.239 --> 0:37:27.720
<v Speaker 1>more than troubling information. I believe we have impeachable offense.

0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:31.880
<v Speaker 1>And then some Congress needs to do oversight and quickly

0:37:32.840 --> 0:37:39.080
<v Speaker 1>because America's health is counting on it. All right, once again,

0:37:39.120 --> 0:37:42.000
<v Speaker 1>I had a very uplifting way to open. I know

0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:43.880
<v Speaker 1>it's what you guys turned to me for right to

0:37:43.920 --> 0:37:47.360
<v Speaker 1>feel good about everyday life. I'm half kidding, of course,

0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:49.600
<v Speaker 1>but I'm gonna sneak in a break when we come back.

0:37:49.640 --> 0:37:52.319
<v Speaker 1>My interview with Tim Winer. It is terrific, all right.

0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:57.359
<v Speaker 1>He was in a remote location in Vermont, so the

0:37:57.400 --> 0:38:01.360
<v Speaker 1>audio is you know, we need more broad band in

0:38:01.440 --> 0:38:05.600
<v Speaker 1>rural America, folks, but it's look, he's worth the interview.

0:38:05.640 --> 0:38:06.640
<v Speaker 1>I know the audio is going to be a little

0:38:06.640 --> 0:38:08.920
<v Speaker 1>bit different than you're normally used to, but trust me,

0:38:08.960 --> 0:38:11.439
<v Speaker 1>it's a good interview. I really think it's worth your time.

0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:14.160
<v Speaker 1>So take a listen, enjoy the break, and when we

0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:16.160
<v Speaker 1>come back after it, I got a little sports update

0:38:16.160 --> 0:38:23.719
<v Speaker 1>for you and I'll do some questions. Joining me now

0:38:23.800 --> 0:38:27.520
<v Speaker 1>is one of the most prolific reporters authors when it

0:38:27.560 --> 0:38:30.360
<v Speaker 1>comes to the world of intelligence. Tim Weiner has written

0:38:30.360 --> 0:38:35.000
<v Speaker 1>extensively about the inner workings of the American intelligence community

0:38:35.080 --> 0:38:38.719
<v Speaker 1>in general, the CIA specifically. And I have him on

0:38:38.719 --> 0:38:41.640
<v Speaker 1>today because he's got a new book on the CIA

0:38:42.280 --> 0:38:44.720
<v Speaker 1>sort of in What Is the Mission in the twenty

0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:47.840
<v Speaker 1>first Century? In this post nine to eleven world, he

0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:53.000
<v Speaker 1>spoke to six the six CIA directors that have had

0:38:53.400 --> 0:38:56.080
<v Speaker 1>have been running the agency in the twenty first century.

0:38:56.800 --> 0:39:01.399
<v Speaker 1>It is a terrific book. In it, we're I feel

0:39:01.400 --> 0:39:05.080
<v Speaker 1>like we're constantly trying to figure out what is the

0:39:05.120 --> 0:39:08.600
<v Speaker 1>mission of the CIA, what should their role be in defense,

0:39:08.760 --> 0:39:12.839
<v Speaker 1>in intelligence and everything, and it it isn't something that

0:39:12.880 --> 0:39:16.680
<v Speaker 1>actually we seem to I feel like every decade it

0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:20.319
<v Speaker 1>slightly changes, and I think it's fair to say we're

0:39:20.320 --> 0:39:23.040
<v Speaker 1>in another one of these transition periods. And Tim's book

0:39:23.080 --> 0:39:25.680
<v Speaker 1>does a good job of sort of setting that predicate

0:39:25.680 --> 0:39:28.640
<v Speaker 1>and Tim joins me, now, good to see you, hi, Shot.

0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:34.880
<v Speaker 1>So look, you've you've, like I said, you've reported on

0:39:34.920 --> 0:39:40.000
<v Speaker 1>the agency for decades. This feels like you're trying to

0:39:40.360 --> 0:39:43.520
<v Speaker 1>and this goes to it. I guess we've been trying

0:39:43.520 --> 0:39:45.360
<v Speaker 1>to figure this out for other parts of the government

0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:49.480
<v Speaker 1>since the fall of the Berlin Wall. But is the

0:39:49.480 --> 0:39:53.160
<v Speaker 1>CIA still looking to figure out what its role is

0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:56.600
<v Speaker 1>post Cold War? I mean, is it is this still?

0:39:56.760 --> 0:40:00.440
<v Speaker 1>Does this still go back to not figuring out what

0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:03.000
<v Speaker 1>is what is the role of the CIA in a

0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:04.360
<v Speaker 1>post Cold War world?

0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Let's remember that the CIA is an instrument of American

0:40:13.040 --> 0:40:19.000
<v Speaker 2>foreign policy. It is an executor of American foreign policy.

0:40:19.520 --> 0:40:23.759
<v Speaker 2>With the rare exception, it does what the president wants

0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:31.120
<v Speaker 2>it to do. Every president. It's the cis foundation that

0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:36.000
<v Speaker 2>forty seven trewman the trucks. He used and abused the

0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:43.920
<v Speaker 2>CIA in ways that it is desires his deepest desires,

0:40:43.960 --> 0:40:49.600
<v Speaker 2>his I in foreign policy. If you want to know

0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:53.719
<v Speaker 2>what the president really wants and really take go to

0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:57.920
<v Speaker 2>the CIA and you go at them what they're up to.

0:40:58.760 --> 0:41:01.839
<v Speaker 2>You go mean, they're clacked records, which needs to be

0:41:02.920 --> 0:41:10.040
<v Speaker 2>fairly belluminantan no longer you talk to them. The mission

0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:13.440
<v Speaker 2>of the CIA from its creation Partwood, its core mission

0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:19.799
<v Speaker 2>spion art no thy enemy, Sunsu wrote in the Art

0:41:19.840 --> 0:41:23.080
<v Speaker 2>of War, and then one hundred ballants will not be defeated.

0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:31.840
<v Speaker 2>After nine eleven, counter terrorism swamped everything for fifteen years.

0:41:32.000 --> 0:41:36.680
<v Speaker 2>Espionage it's swamped counterintelligence, which is spy cascading starting against

0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:44.239
<v Speaker 2>enemy penetrations of the government of state. And that was not,

0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:48.040
<v Speaker 2>in the long run a good thing. And the espionage

0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:52.799
<v Speaker 2>mission didn't really get revived until about eight years ago.

0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:55.799
<v Speaker 2>I'd talk about that later in the show.

0:41:57.360 --> 0:42:00.160
<v Speaker 1>You know that to me is what's striking about the

0:42:00.200 --> 0:42:04.040
<v Speaker 1>CIA in the twenty first century, is it It seemed

0:42:04.080 --> 0:42:06.040
<v Speaker 1>to for a period of time, And I'm curious if

0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:09.520
<v Speaker 1>you think it's still this way now. It became almost

0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:12.520
<v Speaker 1>not just an arm of the military, but it developed

0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:13.759
<v Speaker 1>its own military wing.

0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:18.799
<v Speaker 2>No, well, the CIA has always had what was once

0:42:18.840 --> 0:42:27.800
<v Speaker 2>a small powamilitary. In the immediate aftermath of nine to eleven,

0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:35.520
<v Speaker 2>counter terrorism and paramilitary operations dominated CIA. Counter terrorism budget

0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:42.960
<v Speaker 2>CIA multiplied ten bold, thousands of people were added, mostly

0:42:43.040 --> 0:42:52.440
<v Speaker 2>ex military, and you know, it went out to destroy

0:42:52.520 --> 0:42:59.520
<v Speaker 2>the enemy. George Bush ordered the CIA to construct secret

0:42:59.560 --> 0:43:08.839
<v Speaker 2>prison to inflict tortures on its prisoners, and to kill

0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:12.879
<v Speaker 2>the entity. The CIA was never created to do any

0:43:12.880 --> 0:43:17.560
<v Speaker 2>of that. You know. I interviewed the guy who was

0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:21.399
<v Speaker 2>put in come to constructing the secret prison system on

0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:24.759
<v Speaker 2>the record, as all the interviews in the book are,

0:43:26.560 --> 0:43:33.360
<v Speaker 2>and he said, you know, we're not jailors. We didn't

0:43:33.480 --> 0:43:36.319
<v Speaker 2>have enough people who spoke Arabic, much less knew how

0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:41.080
<v Speaker 2>to do an interrogation. The only killed interrogator they could

0:43:41.120 --> 0:43:49.160
<v Speaker 2>find had been harshly disciplined for misconduct in teaching the

0:43:49.239 --> 0:43:52.520
<v Speaker 2>contours in Central America how to torture back in the

0:43:52.600 --> 0:43:58.080
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighties. Not good instructor, you know, for for your

0:43:58.840 --> 0:44:03.960
<v Speaker 2>recruits in detail to run a secret prison system. And

0:44:04.960 --> 0:44:08.120
<v Speaker 2>the other thing is they do this would not stay secret.

0:44:09.880 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 2>It's very hard to keep a secret in America. Preparing

0:44:13.120 --> 0:44:17.560
<v Speaker 2>and they knew they would be caught violating the laws

0:44:17.560 --> 0:44:20.680
<v Speaker 2>of God and man, not to mention the Geneva Convention,

0:44:22.520 --> 0:44:24.279
<v Speaker 2>and they knew that they would take it in the net,

0:44:24.360 --> 0:44:25.680
<v Speaker 2>not the president who ordered.

0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Them, And that's what happened. I mean, you know, I

0:44:32.400 --> 0:44:36.799
<v Speaker 1>mean it in some ways, And would you say they

0:44:37.400 --> 0:44:39.799
<v Speaker 1>have they dismantled all of these secret prisons. Are they

0:44:39.840 --> 0:44:40.720
<v Speaker 1>out of this business?

0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Now? Obama ordered the secret prisons dismantled and sent the

0:44:47.600 --> 0:44:50.600
<v Speaker 2>CIA in a different direction. He figured it was better

0:44:51.040 --> 0:44:55.200
<v Speaker 2>to kill people than to capture them, and he mightily

0:44:55.239 --> 0:45:00.839
<v Speaker 2>stepped up the drone war for the first bod his presidency.

0:45:01.600 --> 0:45:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Now there's a criticism of that, wasn't there that by

0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:08.120
<v Speaker 1>killing these folks, you were By killing these folks rather

0:45:08.160 --> 0:45:15.880
<v Speaker 1>than capturing them, you were you were potentially eliminating intelligence assets.

0:45:17.239 --> 0:45:20.920
<v Speaker 2>But the CI. But at the same time, the CI

0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:31.000
<v Speaker 2>station in Islamabad, Pakistan was recruiting al Ata has despired

0:45:31.680 --> 0:45:35.200
<v Speaker 2>recruiting members of all Kate and that help not torture

0:45:35.800 --> 0:45:39.520
<v Speaker 2>cow The CI count its way where in about about

0:45:39.560 --> 0:45:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Pakistan uh in twenty eleven. Yeah, Obama dismantled the secret

0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:50.200
<v Speaker 2>prisons and Mike Hayden, who was the director of the

0:45:50.239 --> 0:45:55.879
<v Speaker 2>CIA hundred bush. Then you know quite eloquently the next

0:45:55.920 --> 0:45:59.000
<v Speaker 2>president wants the water board. A prisoner had better bring

0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:01.960
<v Speaker 2>his own bucket. They all need that.

0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:06.720
<v Speaker 1>So there's real regret, there's real regret at the CIA

0:46:06.840 --> 0:46:09.600
<v Speaker 1>over over those first over those tactics in the first

0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:10.320
<v Speaker 1>eight years after.

0:46:10.239 --> 0:46:17.879
<v Speaker 3>NATA were correct is not the word I would. They'll

0:46:17.880 --> 0:46:22.680
<v Speaker 3>live with it, Okay, that's I get that.

0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:24.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know when you sign up at the

0:46:24.640 --> 0:46:28.719
<v Speaker 1>CIA that that's part of the the deal. But and

0:46:28.760 --> 0:46:31.759
<v Speaker 1>I get you say they'll live with it, but they

0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:33.439
<v Speaker 1>know and how, but they'll never do it again.

0:46:35.920 --> 0:46:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Well none onless the President of the United States order

0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:43.080
<v Speaker 2>some to do it. And I have to say that

0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:51.280
<v Speaker 2>weeks a very dangerous place right now. Uh, the people

0:46:51.400 --> 0:46:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Trump has put in charge of American national here do

0:46:56.080 --> 0:47:03.480
<v Speaker 2>a crap, Pops and Pool. You've got Pete White Christian

0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:10.200
<v Speaker 2>nationalists and not arably watch Fox News host running the Pentagon.

0:47:11.040 --> 0:47:13.120
<v Speaker 2>It had just doesn't know how to run the Pentagon.

0:47:14.640 --> 0:47:21.520
<v Speaker 2>You've got the conspiracy theorist and you know, orderline nutcase

0:47:22.640 --> 0:47:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Pelti Gabbard running the Director of Natural Intelligence, which oversees

0:47:27.280 --> 0:47:32.480
<v Speaker 2>all seventeen US intelligence agency. H do you want to

0:47:32.760 --> 0:47:40.160
<v Speaker 2>Obama running the CIA at a time when it was

0:47:40.239 --> 0:47:46.120
<v Speaker 2>uncovering Russian election interference to help Trump in twenty sixteen.

0:47:47.280 --> 0:47:53.600
<v Speaker 2>Over the FBI, You've got the right wing podcaster and

0:47:54.040 --> 0:47:59.520
<v Speaker 2>MAGA soldier Ash Patel, who is running Perhaps the right

0:47:59.560 --> 0:48:05.280
<v Speaker 2>word is ruining the FBI dismantling its intelligence and Natural

0:48:05.280 --> 0:48:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Security divisions and firing everybody who was involved in investigating

0:48:11.840 --> 0:48:17.919
<v Speaker 2>the Russian This is madness. And at the CIA you've

0:48:17.920 --> 0:48:22.200
<v Speaker 2>got Jon Rador. Now. Radcliffe was a three term Texas congressman,

0:48:22.320 --> 0:48:26.239
<v Speaker 2>former personal injury lawyer who had briefly served on the

0:48:26.280 --> 0:48:33.440
<v Speaker 2>House Intelligence Committee. When Trump saw m on Fox defending

0:48:33.520 --> 0:48:36.680
<v Speaker 2>him against the so called Russia hopes, and he liked

0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:39.560
<v Speaker 2>to cut a gym, and so for eight months and

0:48:39.640 --> 0:48:42.520
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty, he made him the Director of Natural Intelligence.

0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:46.759
<v Speaker 2>In those eight months at the end of Trump's first term,

0:48:47.840 --> 0:48:53.880
<v Speaker 2>Radcliffe spent all his time distorting and twisting intelligence reportant

0:48:55.239 --> 0:49:03.880
<v Speaker 2>to absolve the Russians of trying to help Trump, cutting

0:49:03.880 --> 0:49:09.560
<v Speaker 2>off intelligence reporting on the Russian Congress, and generally telling

0:49:09.600 --> 0:49:12.880
<v Speaker 2>Trump anything he wanted to hear and not telling him

0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:16.520
<v Speaker 2>things that he didn't want to hear. He's doing much

0:49:16.600 --> 0:49:19.800
<v Speaker 2>the same as the I director, and much worse.

0:49:21.680 --> 0:49:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Who is the ultimate filter of this information to Trump

0:49:25.520 --> 0:49:28.000
<v Speaker 1>right now? Is it d N I. Gabbard or is

0:49:28.040 --> 0:49:31.040
<v Speaker 1>it CIA Chief Rackliff.

0:49:31.520 --> 0:49:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, both of them? The Director of Natural Intelligence and

0:49:34.800 --> 0:49:40.279
<v Speaker 2>basically of bureaucracy that oversees days and as you know,

0:49:40.440 --> 0:49:45.439
<v Speaker 2>Chuck and Alcid observer things in Washington oversided the two

0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:51.560
<v Speaker 2>faith word it means to actually, you know, conduct oversight,

0:49:51.960 --> 0:49:57.040
<v Speaker 2>and it means to overlook things and not conduct them.

0:49:57.080 --> 0:50:02.640
<v Speaker 2>And so TIA does you know heavy lifting in uh,

0:50:03.080 --> 0:50:08.520
<v Speaker 2>gathering intelligence and analyzed and intelligence and gathered. Unfortunately, it's

0:50:08.560 --> 0:50:12.480
<v Speaker 2>the filter for the president's gay breath, which you know

0:50:13.040 --> 0:50:16.560
<v Speaker 2>was the holiest of holmes at the CIA. It's the

0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:21.960
<v Speaker 2>briefing that the president gets supposedly every morning. Were Trump

0:50:22.000 --> 0:50:26.719
<v Speaker 2>doesn't do intelligence right, and he cureinly doesn't read intelligence briefings.

0:50:27.160 --> 0:50:30.160
<v Speaker 2>And when he talks about intelligence, he usually puts it in

0:50:30.160 --> 0:50:36.680
<v Speaker 2>a scare quote, right, And uh, you know at root

0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:42.959
<v Speaker 2>of this, Jock, is that Trump is an ideologue. Ideology

0:50:43.120 --> 0:50:47.239
<v Speaker 2>is the enemy of intelligence. If you are an ideologue, right,

0:50:47.560 --> 0:50:49.520
<v Speaker 2>you don't care what the way.

0:50:49.600 --> 0:50:52.560
<v Speaker 1>That's the enemy of journal I always say it's the

0:50:52.680 --> 0:50:55.560
<v Speaker 1>enemy of journalism because we're in the same business as

0:50:55.600 --> 0:50:58.120
<v Speaker 1>the CIA. It's funny, I'm I'm actually working with an

0:50:58.200 --> 0:51:03.400
<v Speaker 1>organization call Trust in Media that is not just journalists,

0:51:03.920 --> 0:51:09.240
<v Speaker 1>but it's actually two former CIA agents, former State Department.

0:51:09.320 --> 0:51:14.600
<v Speaker 1>Because the issue is good information and there is a

0:51:14.680 --> 0:51:17.040
<v Speaker 1>real concern what I have found and I'm sure you

0:51:17.080 --> 0:51:18.640
<v Speaker 1>found in your book, but I'd love for you to

0:51:18.719 --> 0:51:22.960
<v Speaker 1>explain this that among the rank and file Intel gathers,

0:51:23.520 --> 0:51:26.560
<v Speaker 1>the people that have that work through, that worked in

0:51:26.600 --> 0:51:29.480
<v Speaker 1>both the Bush era and the Obama era and were

0:51:29.520 --> 0:51:32.960
<v Speaker 1>held over in some cases into the Trump era. They're alarmed,

0:51:33.840 --> 0:51:38.080
<v Speaker 1>and they're very right, they're totally alarmed that there is

0:51:38.160 --> 0:51:42.440
<v Speaker 1>no longer you know that, you know the accusations of

0:51:42.440 --> 0:51:46.480
<v Speaker 1>political bias that the CIA come with every administration, but

0:51:46.560 --> 0:51:50.200
<v Speaker 1>it is now, it is now actionable, right it is.

0:51:50.280 --> 0:51:54.359
<v Speaker 1>It has gone to another level of political interference. And

0:51:54.400 --> 0:51:58.040
<v Speaker 1>they have a real fear that our political leaders are

0:51:58.080 --> 0:52:02.320
<v Speaker 1>not going to get unvarnished information from the intelligence community

0:52:02.600 --> 0:52:05.279
<v Speaker 1>in the same way we've seen what happens when the

0:52:05.600 --> 0:52:10.840
<v Speaker 1>American electorate doesn't get straightforward, unvarnished information without an ideological

0:52:10.880 --> 0:52:13.719
<v Speaker 1>tilt to it, and what happens to the information ecosystem.

0:52:14.480 --> 0:52:16.920
<v Speaker 1>This is a huge problem right now in our in

0:52:16.960 --> 0:52:17.520
<v Speaker 1>our system.

0:52:19.360 --> 0:52:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Because Trump has appointed Mata acolyte to run the instruence

0:52:26.320 --> 0:52:31.680
<v Speaker 2>of American National Security. None of them want to, you know,

0:52:32.040 --> 0:52:34.480
<v Speaker 2>don't make Daddy mad, don't tell them things he doesn't

0:52:34.480 --> 0:52:41.040
<v Speaker 2>want to hear, are twisting and distorting the intelligence reporting

0:52:41.080 --> 0:52:49.359
<v Speaker 2>that is coming from the racket file. Their amateurishness, their

0:52:51.560 --> 0:52:58.240
<v Speaker 2>faulty to Trump increases the risk of a catastrophic intelligence

0:52:58.320 --> 0:53:05.200
<v Speaker 2>stature and the risk of another surprise on the United

0:53:05.239 --> 0:53:10.360
<v Speaker 2>States at home abroad. Let me ask you a rhetorkey questions, Scott.

0:53:10.840 --> 0:53:13.359
<v Speaker 2>Let me ans script here, what do you think Trump

0:53:13.400 --> 0:53:15.239
<v Speaker 2>would do if the United States were hit again?

0:53:19.239 --> 0:53:24.160
<v Speaker 1>Blame somebody else number one, probably blame find a political

0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:28.880
<v Speaker 1>enemy to blame internally. I mean, I you know, he

0:53:28.880 --> 0:53:31.120
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't let it go, I think I. I mean, look

0:53:31.120 --> 0:53:35.440
<v Speaker 1>what he's doing now, right, he's using Look what he's

0:53:35.480 --> 0:53:37.800
<v Speaker 1>doing to the census today. All right, we're taping on

0:53:38.120 --> 0:53:40.279
<v Speaker 1>August seventh, on a Thursday. This is going to be

0:53:40.360 --> 0:53:43.680
<v Speaker 1>dropping Monday, so we were tapping about three days before

0:53:43.680 --> 0:53:46.799
<v Speaker 1>this is going to drop on my feed. But he

0:53:46.840 --> 0:53:50.719
<v Speaker 1>wants to essentially renumber the census, right, you know, he

0:53:50.760 --> 0:53:53.879
<v Speaker 1>wants to because he is claiming without evidence in order

0:53:53.920 --> 0:53:57.000
<v Speaker 1>to support what he did at BLS. Hey, all of

0:53:57.040 --> 0:54:00.440
<v Speaker 1>this is manipulated. Everything government does is manipulate, right, So

0:54:00.480 --> 0:54:02.759
<v Speaker 1>it's sort of a bit of a power grap And

0:54:02.960 --> 0:54:05.960
<v Speaker 1>if we got hit again. You know, it's pretty clear.

0:54:06.400 --> 0:54:09.399
<v Speaker 1>You know, they don't let you, don't let anything get

0:54:09.440 --> 0:54:13.879
<v Speaker 1>in the way of the of the ability to sort

0:54:13.880 --> 0:54:16.319
<v Speaker 1>of concentrate power. So I think they'd see it as

0:54:16.360 --> 0:54:17.920
<v Speaker 1>an opportunity to concentrate more power.

0:54:19.280 --> 0:54:22.560
<v Speaker 2>I think he would declare martial law. And I also

0:54:22.600 --> 0:54:27.879
<v Speaker 2>think he would cancel the upcoming election. That's it would

0:54:28.080 --> 0:54:32.840
<v Speaker 2>declare his pandom natural emergency in which he could rule

0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:34.520
<v Speaker 2>as well.

0:54:34.520 --> 0:54:37.120
<v Speaker 1>Look, he's threatening already with d C. Look what he's

0:54:37.200 --> 0:54:39.640
<v Speaker 1>story with d C. So this is a you know,

0:54:40.200 --> 0:54:43.680
<v Speaker 1>it is it mattered what he's the rhetoric about DC matters,

0:54:43.760 --> 0:54:46.759
<v Speaker 1>because once you open that door in DC, you open

0:54:46.840 --> 0:54:48.280
<v Speaker 1>the door with what you're talking about.

0:54:50.239 --> 0:54:54.080
<v Speaker 2>Could that happen? And I cannot stretch strongly enough that

0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:58.759
<v Speaker 2>the chaos that Trump has created in the American intelligence

0:55:00.000 --> 0:55:03.920
<v Speaker 2>piece is the pit of the surprise attack of bolt

0:55:03.960 --> 0:55:08.080
<v Speaker 2>from the Blue at home or abroad. If that happens

0:55:08.280 --> 0:55:14.160
<v Speaker 2>and Trump declares himself the supreme eat, we are at

0:55:14.160 --> 0:55:18.400
<v Speaker 2>the end of our nearly two hundred and fifty years

0:55:18.600 --> 0:55:27.120
<v Speaker 2>experiment in American democracy. Chut My mom grew up in

0:55:27.200 --> 0:55:35.959
<v Speaker 2>Hitler's German and she made it up of Skinberte, and

0:55:37.719 --> 0:55:42.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't want my daughter to have to face that terrible,

0:55:43.920 --> 0:55:44.920
<v Speaker 2>terrible prep.

0:55:46.880 --> 0:55:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about why we're likely to miss the warning

0:55:50.840 --> 0:55:55.000
<v Speaker 1>on something like this. What you've just described about the

0:55:55.040 --> 0:55:59.200
<v Speaker 1>CIA and our intelligence community isn't just your assessment. I'm

0:55:59.200 --> 0:56:02.920
<v Speaker 1>gonna guess it's the assessment of Masad. It's the assessment

0:56:03.000 --> 0:56:05.960
<v Speaker 1>of I six And you know where I'm going here,

0:56:06.000 --> 0:56:11.239
<v Speaker 1>which means I assume the intelligent sharing operations that have

0:56:11.320 --> 0:56:17.040
<v Speaker 1>been so crucial to intelligence gathering for the CIA for decades,

0:56:17.680 --> 0:56:20.799
<v Speaker 1>I assume it's at risk right now because there is

0:56:22.239 --> 0:56:26.160
<v Speaker 1>concern that he could manipulate what they give them, that

0:56:26.239 --> 0:56:28.120
<v Speaker 1>it could get leaked, that it could not get that

0:56:28.160 --> 0:56:32.040
<v Speaker 1>it could get misused. So how blind do you let

0:56:32.040 --> 0:56:34.640
<v Speaker 1>me ask you this, how blind our rank and file

0:56:34.760 --> 0:56:38.680
<v Speaker 1>CIA intel gatherers feeling right now when it comes to

0:56:38.760 --> 0:56:43.480
<v Speaker 1>our supposed best intel allies, and I'm talking about Israel

0:56:44.040 --> 0:56:44.800
<v Speaker 1>and the Five Eyes.

0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:49.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to paint an apocalyptic picture here, because.

0:56:50.280 --> 0:56:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, martial law martial law for the midterms kind of

0:56:53.680 --> 0:56:55.440
<v Speaker 1>was apocalyptic there, tim.

0:56:55.680 --> 0:57:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, But I don't want to want sure the intelligence

0:57:01.120 --> 0:57:08.160
<v Speaker 2>the relationship that exists between the CIA and its trusted

0:57:08.400 --> 0:57:13.200
<v Speaker 2>foreign allies, which includes countries that you would not pick

0:57:13.280 --> 0:57:15.640
<v Speaker 2>up as American allies on the top of your head.

0:57:17.440 --> 0:57:22.400
<v Speaker 2>The relationships between a CIA station chief in a foreign

0:57:22.440 --> 0:57:28.240
<v Speaker 2>capital and his foreign counterpart hand the lahn understurbed, even

0:57:28.280 --> 0:57:35.560
<v Speaker 2>if above ground diplomatic relationships are crumbling and harsh words

0:57:35.560 --> 0:57:41.800
<v Speaker 2>are being sproken between that country's leader and president or

0:57:41.880 --> 0:57:50.160
<v Speaker 2>United States. However, the CIA relies Michael as does the

0:57:50.280 --> 0:57:55.880
<v Speaker 2>United States on those alliances because born intelligence, the GIA

0:57:55.960 --> 0:58:01.280
<v Speaker 2>cannot do its job without its liaison with foreign intel services.

0:58:02.040 --> 0:58:05.760
<v Speaker 2>The CI does not have enough people, enough language skills,

0:58:05.960 --> 0:58:11.200
<v Speaker 2>enough country knowledge to cover the entire planet. So if

0:58:11.280 --> 0:58:27.480
<v Speaker 2>something really dangerous is happening in Jordan or Pakistan, it

0:58:27.600 --> 0:58:32.720
<v Speaker 2>relies on its liaisons, as they are at times with

0:58:33.160 --> 0:58:39.200
<v Speaker 2>the host intelligence service. Now let us say that you

0:58:39.480 --> 0:58:45.800
<v Speaker 2>are the head of the BND, the German intelligence and

0:58:45.920 --> 0:58:49.760
<v Speaker 2>you are perceiving correctly because this is happening right now,

0:58:50.440 --> 0:58:54.440
<v Speaker 2>that Putin is waging a war of sabotage and subversion

0:58:54.560 --> 0:58:58.960
<v Speaker 2>in Western Europe, and you've got some good sorting funds

0:59:00.760 --> 0:59:06.760
<v Speaker 2>recruited Russian Are you going to share recruited Russians intelligence

0:59:06.800 --> 0:59:13.840
<v Speaker 2>with Pelsey Gabbard, who is a putent apolitics, you would

0:59:13.840 --> 0:59:18.120
<v Speaker 2>think twice about doing this. And you know there are

0:59:18.200 --> 0:59:21.680
<v Speaker 2>roadblocks in this two way street now, and that increases

0:59:22.120 --> 0:59:26.960
<v Speaker 2>the danger for being that state, as does you know

0:59:27.120 --> 0:59:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Trump's rupturing of relations with the nation to NATO. Right,

0:59:35.360 --> 0:59:40.480
<v Speaker 2>what Trump has done in books short months is to

0:59:40.560 --> 0:59:45.600
<v Speaker 2>take a wrecking ball. The architecture of American national security

0:59:46.400 --> 0:59:51.040
<v Speaker 2>was built over the court of eighty World War two,

0:59:52.320 --> 0:59:57.960
<v Speaker 2>with one of its primary purposes being keeping the Russians

0:59:58.000 --> 1:00:04.040
<v Speaker 2>from attacking arrest of the world. The Russians are attacked

1:00:06.520 --> 1:00:11.600
<v Speaker 2>the nations of Europe. They are conducting assassination, they are

1:00:11.640 --> 1:00:19.480
<v Speaker 2>conducting political warfare, they are conducting information warfare, and they

1:00:19.520 --> 1:00:27.600
<v Speaker 2>are conducting actual lacks of sabotage on information infrastructure in Europe.

1:00:28.960 --> 1:00:32.240
<v Speaker 2>If Vladimir Putin is allowed to keep one square inch

1:00:32.440 --> 1:00:40.880
<v Speaker 2>of Ukrainer, yeah, you will not stop there. He will

1:00:40.920 --> 1:00:48.120
<v Speaker 2>move westward. And the United States is you know, essentially

1:00:48.440 --> 1:00:55.400
<v Speaker 2>withdrawing moral, political, financial, and military from the nations of

1:00:55.440 --> 1:01:00.360
<v Speaker 2>Europe to prevent that. That's World War three, Betty, No.

1:01:00.440 --> 1:01:02.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, look, if he gets a piece of Ukraine,

1:01:03.120 --> 1:01:06.280
<v Speaker 1>He's going to Lithuania, latvi Estonia, one of them, maybe

1:01:06.320 --> 1:01:08.400
<v Speaker 1>all of them next and that's going to be the

1:01:08.400 --> 1:01:11.320
<v Speaker 1>real test of Article five, right, But the real test

1:01:11.320 --> 1:01:14.240
<v Speaker 1>of Article five is going to be those three Balkan countries,

1:01:14.640 --> 1:01:18.520
<v Speaker 1>those first three, right. And you know, I'll never forget

1:01:18.880 --> 1:01:21.800
<v Speaker 1>Tucker Carlson going on a rant once, an anti NATO rant,

1:01:21.800 --> 1:01:24.200
<v Speaker 1>and he said, our American soldier is going to die

1:01:24.240 --> 1:01:28.000
<v Speaker 1>for Estonians. And I thought, well, that's what treaties are about.

1:01:28.080 --> 1:01:29.480
<v Speaker 1>And we signed the treaty.

1:01:30.440 --> 1:01:35.520
<v Speaker 2>And let's remind people that Article five is a fundamental

1:01:35.920 --> 1:01:39.000
<v Speaker 2>principle of NATO, so that an attack on one is

1:01:39.040 --> 1:01:42.320
<v Speaker 2>an attack on all. And when the United States was

1:01:42.360 --> 1:01:49.920
<v Speaker 2>attacked on September eleventh, the nations of the NATO, you know,

1:01:50.640 --> 1:01:54.040
<v Speaker 2>put it on their boots and put those boots on

1:01:54.040 --> 1:01:57.080
<v Speaker 2>the ground in Afghanistan and then hit the ruck and

1:01:57.200 --> 1:01:59.480
<v Speaker 2>came in the defense of the Nunited States.

1:02:11.960 --> 1:02:15.200
<v Speaker 1>By the way, speaking of you, called her a Putin apologist.

1:02:15.240 --> 1:02:18.960
<v Speaker 1>And I had another source tell me that if you

1:02:19.000 --> 1:02:24.360
<v Speaker 1>were the Russians, you and you wanted an asset in

1:02:24.360 --> 1:02:27.560
<v Speaker 1>in the US government, that the single best listening post

1:02:27.640 --> 1:02:29.040
<v Speaker 1>to have an asset would be DNA.

1:02:29.560 --> 1:02:34.360
<v Speaker 2>A lot of journalists, diplomat, spies, and other interested parties

1:02:34.880 --> 1:02:39.240
<v Speaker 2>how to spend a lot of the past decade wondering

1:02:39.480 --> 1:02:47.120
<v Speaker 2>about the relationship of Trump. What is this strange bromance?

1:02:50.040 --> 1:02:54.080
<v Speaker 2>Does Trump like Putin because he wants to be like Putin?

1:02:54.600 --> 1:03:01.480
<v Speaker 2>That is government's an autocrat? You know? Do the Russians

1:03:01.560 --> 1:03:08.200
<v Speaker 2>have something on Trump called promot from some time? And

1:03:08.520 --> 1:03:14.000
<v Speaker 2>unless the intelligence archons brush are opened at some point

1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:16.680
<v Speaker 2>in the future and there's a big boulder in it

1:03:16.800 --> 1:03:22.840
<v Speaker 2>labeled b Trump, we're not going to know the answer

1:03:22.920 --> 1:03:26.680
<v Speaker 2>that question. But in a way, the question now answers himself.

1:03:28.000 --> 1:03:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Trump has not been Pudent's agent. He's been Putin's ally, right,

1:03:35.640 --> 1:03:40.600
<v Speaker 2>And you know, somebody evidently got to him a couple

1:03:40.640 --> 1:03:42.920
<v Speaker 2>of weeks ago and said, you know, you really have

1:03:43.080 --> 1:03:45.760
<v Speaker 2>to man up again, Pudin, because he's been leading you

1:03:45.800 --> 1:03:49.200
<v Speaker 2>around the nose by the nose for the last sevil year.

1:03:51.760 --> 1:03:55.280
<v Speaker 2>And so you know, nowsum, we'll believe Trump and Fuodin

1:03:55.320 --> 1:03:57.720
<v Speaker 2>are going to sit down and Trump is going to

1:03:57.800 --> 1:04:02.560
<v Speaker 2>say this warned to end, and Food is going to say,

1:04:04.200 --> 1:04:07.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, stop people, thank you very much. Uh, there's

1:04:07.880 --> 1:04:12.480
<v Speaker 2>the door. You don't think he.

1:04:12.400 --> 1:04:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Gives them like a two week cease fire. I think

1:04:14.480 --> 1:04:16.520
<v Speaker 1>he hands him like a like a two weeks cease

1:04:16.600 --> 1:04:18.360
<v Speaker 1>fire and then it and then it, you know, something

1:04:18.440 --> 1:04:21.120
<v Speaker 1>like that, like something uh a fig leaf.

1:04:21.480 --> 1:04:25.120
<v Speaker 2>Uh. And U I learned a long time ago that

1:04:25.600 --> 1:04:28.840
<v Speaker 2>he who lives by the crystal ball wing broken blood.

1:04:30.520 --> 1:04:35.160
<v Speaker 2>You're right, Uh, But but you asked me about celto gathering.

1:04:35.680 --> 1:04:35.880
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

1:04:37.280 --> 1:04:40.720
<v Speaker 2>There is a term of art in the American intelligence

1:04:41.200 --> 1:04:46.160
<v Speaker 2>and the CI, which is agent of influence. Now, an

1:04:46.240 --> 1:04:49.600
<v Speaker 2>agent of influence does not have to be a recruited

1:04:49.800 --> 1:04:54.160
<v Speaker 2>agent in the in the pay of a how style intelligence.

1:04:55.240 --> 1:04:59.840
<v Speaker 2>An agent of influence is someone who acts, who advance

1:05:00.120 --> 1:05:09.520
<v Speaker 2>the foreign policies or political goals of a foreign power. Right,

1:05:10.480 --> 1:05:14.240
<v Speaker 2>don't you know, Chelsea Gabbert will not be photographed taking

1:05:14.280 --> 1:05:18.400
<v Speaker 2>a briefcape full of frimlin gold under a bridge in

1:05:18.440 --> 1:05:19.840
<v Speaker 2>Piena at midnight.

1:05:21.000 --> 1:05:26.000
<v Speaker 1>But she will be photographed meeting with a sad in Damascus,

1:05:27.360 --> 1:05:30.040
<v Speaker 1>just saying yeah.

1:05:31.040 --> 1:05:38.960
<v Speaker 2>It is very dangerous to have someone that unbalanced mm

1:05:39.000 --> 1:05:46.280
<v Speaker 2>hm in charge of what is, on paper, the most

1:05:46.640 --> 1:05:54.760
<v Speaker 2>politically influential American intelligence operation. And now we have the

1:05:55.080 --> 1:06:04.960
<v Speaker 2>spectacle of Celtic Gabert, John Ratcliffe, CIA and Caspitel at FBI,

1:06:06.640 --> 1:06:12.080
<v Speaker 2>following the president's orders, did gin up a prosecution at

1:06:12.080 --> 1:06:17.240
<v Speaker 2>the Justice Department of not only the CIA officers and

1:06:18.440 --> 1:06:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Intel director who oversaw the irreputable report about the liaisons

1:06:26.760 --> 1:06:31.520
<v Speaker 2>between Team Trump and Team Putin during twenty sixteen, but

1:06:31.640 --> 1:06:35.360
<v Speaker 2>also to prosecute the President of the United States at

1:06:35.400 --> 1:06:43.120
<v Speaker 2>the time, Barack Obama, well is CI director John Brennan,

1:06:44.480 --> 1:06:49.800
<v Speaker 2>and possibly any number of CIA officers and FBI eight.

1:06:51.600 --> 1:06:54.880
<v Speaker 2>As my friend Garrick Rafts, the great journalists and author,

1:06:56.400 --> 1:07:00.200
<v Speaker 2>often says, if he saw that happening in another country,

1:07:00.240 --> 1:07:01.440
<v Speaker 2>what would you call it?

1:07:02.440 --> 1:07:03.280
<v Speaker 1>What would you call it?

1:07:04.040 --> 1:07:07.880
<v Speaker 2>A political warfare operation run by an autocratic guest?

1:07:11.040 --> 1:07:13.160
<v Speaker 1>So let me ask you this. There is one person

1:07:13.240 --> 1:07:17.680
<v Speaker 1>in the Trump national security team who co authored a

1:07:17.760 --> 1:07:21.720
<v Speaker 1>report about Russian interference at the Senate Intel Committee, who

1:07:21.880 --> 1:07:27.000
<v Speaker 1>genuinely knows that Tulsea Gabbert and John Ratcliffe are totally

1:07:27.760 --> 1:07:32.600
<v Speaker 1>completely unqualified for the positions that they have. Is he

1:07:32.760 --> 1:07:35.680
<v Speaker 1>the only hope If you were an ahead of the

1:07:35.760 --> 1:07:37.840
<v Speaker 1>MI six and you really needed to get something in

1:07:37.880 --> 1:07:41.200
<v Speaker 1>the United States, and you didn't trust the CIA and

1:07:41.240 --> 1:07:44.000
<v Speaker 1>you didn't trust Gabbert, do you go to Marco Rubio?

1:07:44.800 --> 1:07:50.440
<v Speaker 1>You see the last bastion of potential truth in Trump's

1:07:50.480 --> 1:07:55.800
<v Speaker 1>ear or not. Well, Duck, I never covered politics, and

1:07:56.000 --> 1:07:59.720
<v Speaker 1>you have so correct me if I'm getting a quotation raw.

1:08:00.440 --> 1:08:04.120
<v Speaker 1>But I believe that the late great Governor pets and

1:08:04.400 --> 1:08:10.960
<v Speaker 1>Rick Keegs once instead of uh, President George Hubert walker

1:08:11.240 --> 1:08:13.160
<v Speaker 1>Bush when he was running for president.

1:08:13.760 --> 1:08:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, at John much the manhood in the blind truck.

1:08:20.000 --> 1:08:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Maria Bell, Yes, it's it's an alzheimer. It's an Alzheimer's. Yeah,

1:08:25.960 --> 1:08:30.519
<v Speaker 1>all right, if anybody wants to go on YouTube, it's funny,

1:08:30.600 --> 1:08:31.560
<v Speaker 1>It's hilarious.

1:08:32.200 --> 1:08:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Poor Joel Rubio, who knows.

1:08:35.160 --> 1:08:39.639
<v Speaker 4>Better, Yeah, has put in his manhood in the blind

1:08:39.680 --> 1:08:45.160
<v Speaker 4>trust and given Dome Frump the key to the safe

1:08:45.600 --> 1:08:47.559
<v Speaker 4>where that blind trust is filed.

1:08:48.040 --> 1:08:48.400
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm.

1:08:50.400 --> 1:08:58.320
<v Speaker 2>It is hard to expect that a man who does

1:08:58.400 --> 1:09:05.559
<v Speaker 2>know better has presided over the destruction of the US

1:09:05.680 --> 1:09:10.040
<v Speaker 2>Agency for Interacting Development, which was the most powerful foreign

1:09:10.120 --> 1:09:15.480
<v Speaker 2>policy tool the United States has ever wielded, has presided

1:09:15.560 --> 1:09:20.840
<v Speaker 2>over ideological purchase of the State Department, has put a

1:09:20.960 --> 1:09:25.120
<v Speaker 2>spokesman in place who belonged on North Korean state telemension,

1:09:26.520 --> 1:09:32.320
<v Speaker 2>and is putting what is left of the reputation of

1:09:32.360 --> 1:09:38.800
<v Speaker 2>the United States abroad at the deepest risk. You know what,

1:09:39.040 --> 1:09:46.680
<v Speaker 2>if I were an ambassador or born intelligence chief and

1:09:46.720 --> 1:09:51.160
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to back channel something into the contexts of

1:09:51.560 --> 1:09:56.040
<v Speaker 2>the American government, I just give it to my friendly

1:09:56.120 --> 1:09:59.160
<v Speaker 2>local CI station chief. I would certainly not give it

1:09:59.360 --> 1:10:02.200
<v Speaker 2>to any memor member of Trump's cabinet or inner circle.

1:10:04.040 --> 1:10:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean that. Yeah, I'm sitting here thinking because

1:10:08.040 --> 1:10:11.160
<v Speaker 1>you're basically outlining that we have all these blind spots

1:10:11.200 --> 1:10:15.040
<v Speaker 1>now because of political the politicization of the intel world.

1:10:15.800 --> 1:10:20.599
<v Speaker 1>And you know what would be the way, you know what,

1:10:21.040 --> 1:10:23.360
<v Speaker 1>is there any way for good intelligence to make it

1:10:23.400 --> 1:10:28.120
<v Speaker 1>through the system so that good actors could act responsibly.

1:10:28.160 --> 1:10:31.240
<v Speaker 1>And what you're saying is it's unclear that there may

1:10:31.280 --> 1:10:35.040
<v Speaker 1>not be a way to get good actional intelligence in

1:10:35.080 --> 1:10:37.480
<v Speaker 1>front of rational actors.

1:10:38.600 --> 1:10:48.719
<v Speaker 2>That essential part of the American national securities is being

1:10:48.800 --> 1:10:57.880
<v Speaker 2>deliberately broken by Donald Trump, his cabinet and his CIA.

1:11:02.080 --> 1:11:07.320
<v Speaker 2>You know, I wasn't raised by jetsamen, but the Jesuits

1:11:07.360 --> 1:11:09.880
<v Speaker 2>teach you that there's two kinds of aor in the world.

1:11:10.640 --> 1:11:16.640
<v Speaker 2>There's invincible ignorance and invincible ignorance. And invincible ignorance there

1:11:16.720 --> 1:11:21.160
<v Speaker 2>is the stuff, you know, you're not ever really gonna know.

1:11:21.520 --> 1:11:24.439
<v Speaker 2>God works in serious ways to fall in the world.

1:11:24.760 --> 1:11:27.920
<v Speaker 2>But vincible agor is the stuff that you do know,

1:11:28.000 --> 1:11:30.679
<v Speaker 2>you need to know, but you don't want to know. Yeah,

1:11:31.320 --> 1:11:36.439
<v Speaker 2>because it's too unpleasant, too harsh, because it bumps up

1:11:36.479 --> 1:11:41.720
<v Speaker 2>against your preconception. And that kind of ignorance goes a

1:11:41.760 --> 1:11:47.639
<v Speaker 2>long way to explaining why we were in Vietnam, why

1:11:47.720 --> 1:11:57.120
<v Speaker 2>we were in Iraq, and what lies ahead for the

1:11:57.160 --> 1:12:01.480
<v Speaker 2>government of the United States. It's natural to jurity establishment

1:12:01.800 --> 1:12:05.200
<v Speaker 2>and it's an intelligence community. You've got a president who

1:12:05.320 --> 1:12:12.479
<v Speaker 2>is wilkilly ignorant, who doesn't want to know, and who

1:12:14.160 --> 1:12:18.720
<v Speaker 2>despises and disdains the CIA because it is, in his

1:12:18.880 --> 1:12:21.759
<v Speaker 2>mind the capital of deep state.

1:12:23.000 --> 1:12:24.639
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he doesn't like the CIA for the same

1:12:24.640 --> 1:12:28.840
<v Speaker 1>reason he doesn't like journalists. We surface, we surface uncomfortable truth.

1:12:31.160 --> 1:12:37.040
<v Speaker 2>You make. You make an excellent point there, jeh. I mean, yes, yeah,

1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:43.080
<v Speaker 2>there is an affinity between the CIA offerture over thieves

1:12:43.240 --> 1:12:46.520
<v Speaker 2>and the foreign courts bond overseas.

1:12:47.080 --> 1:12:48.880
<v Speaker 1>That's why the joke is some of us in media,

1:12:49.000 --> 1:12:50.880
<v Speaker 1>are we getting recruited by the CIA or not?

1:12:51.000 --> 1:12:51.160
<v Speaker 2>Right?

1:12:51.240 --> 1:12:55.639
<v Speaker 1>Like, it's not that reporters are actually have the skill

1:12:55.720 --> 1:12:56.759
<v Speaker 1>set in theory.

1:12:56.960 --> 1:13:00.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, since nineteen seventy seven I had not been

1:13:00.680 --> 1:13:04.200
<v Speaker 2>allowed to recruit foreign journals. I can take one or

1:13:04.200 --> 1:13:06.759
<v Speaker 2>two over the decade to kind of recruit them films.

1:13:06.760 --> 1:13:07.840
<v Speaker 2>But that's another seat.

1:13:08.640 --> 1:13:08.800
<v Speaker 1>Enough.

1:13:10.640 --> 1:13:16.040
<v Speaker 2>We both want to molt secrets the spy and bribe.

1:13:16.439 --> 1:13:19.759
<v Speaker 2>We both want to and I'm quoting dak Field Hammett

1:13:19.800 --> 1:13:23.479
<v Speaker 2>here the multi s falcon lit the lid off like

1:13:23.600 --> 1:13:29.400
<v Speaker 2>that look inside of the work. We both can you know,

1:13:29.520 --> 1:13:36.640
<v Speaker 2>parachute into a foreign capital like Cartoon or Tobble and

1:13:36.720 --> 1:13:39.960
<v Speaker 2>say take me to your leader, and likely is not

1:13:40.080 --> 1:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>we will be taken to the leader. This is good.

1:13:43.720 --> 1:13:50.679
<v Speaker 2>They're the roads diverge. Okay. The CIA pays handsomely, very

1:13:50.760 --> 1:13:56.360
<v Speaker 2>handsomely for information. We don't unless you know we're crooked,

1:13:56.920 --> 1:14:03.480
<v Speaker 2>and most of us are not. The CIA is recruiting

1:14:03.720 --> 1:14:07.400
<v Speaker 2>for an agent to you know, enter into a criminal

1:14:07.439 --> 1:14:11.719
<v Speaker 2>conspiracy to commit treason. We just want, you know, enough

1:14:11.840 --> 1:14:18.559
<v Speaker 2>facts to write a decent story. Right and uh, but

1:14:18.680 --> 1:14:23.240
<v Speaker 2>I have found that the the you know, small but

1:14:23.360 --> 1:14:28.839
<v Speaker 2>significant ben diagram between what spies do and what journalists

1:14:28.880 --> 1:14:33.400
<v Speaker 2>dout has helped me, you know, over the years, conduct

1:14:33.840 --> 1:14:38.839
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of on the record interviews with u C I officer,

1:14:39.040 --> 1:14:43.880
<v Speaker 2>c I analy C I veterans BI director. And you

1:14:43.920 --> 1:14:47.920
<v Speaker 2>know this is not some meat trick. Uh, this is

1:14:48.120 --> 1:14:52.880
<v Speaker 2>just you know, good journalism. If people are on the record, yep,

1:14:53.680 --> 1:14:59.200
<v Speaker 2>they're much less likely to fudge or to play or

1:14:59.240 --> 1:15:02.559
<v Speaker 2>to concoct, okay, because their name is attached to what

1:15:02.600 --> 1:15:09.600
<v Speaker 2>they said. I haven't been a Washington journalist since the

1:15:09.720 --> 1:15:16.519
<v Speaker 2>late twentieth century, and I find that, you know, if

1:15:16.520 --> 1:15:18.439
<v Speaker 2>you're on deadline, if you're working for the New York

1:15:18.439 --> 1:15:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Times or Washington Posts, yeah, off the record or background instance, okay,

1:15:25.200 --> 1:15:28.000
<v Speaker 2>but not if you're writing a book, right, okay, and

1:15:28.040 --> 1:15:31.120
<v Speaker 2>you're playing the long game. Why should you reader trust me?

1:15:32.680 --> 1:15:37.080
<v Speaker 2>If you writing a book with off the record, you know, source.

1:15:40.160 --> 1:15:40.240
<v Speaker 1>It.

1:15:42.400 --> 1:15:47.400
<v Speaker 2>To work as to work in this realm, coin is

1:15:47.439 --> 1:15:50.479
<v Speaker 2>the only sorry, I repeat myself, no.

1:15:50.560 --> 1:15:51.639
<v Speaker 1>Of course I know where you're going.

1:15:51.720 --> 1:15:58.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, to work in this realm. Grus is the only Curtesy, right, okay.

1:15:59.040 --> 1:16:01.800
<v Speaker 2>And you know I've been doing this for light going

1:16:01.880 --> 1:16:06.280
<v Speaker 2>on forty years now. Yeah, by my youthful appearance, and

1:16:06.640 --> 1:16:11.200
<v Speaker 2>uh uh, you hang around long enough, people start to

1:16:11.240 --> 1:16:11.640
<v Speaker 2>trust you.

1:16:12.120 --> 1:16:12.559
<v Speaker 1>That's right.

1:16:13.760 --> 1:16:13.840
<v Speaker 2>Now.

1:16:14.000 --> 1:16:16.000
<v Speaker 1>This is why I think your book is is so

1:16:16.800 --> 1:16:19.080
<v Speaker 1>is you know, going to be gobbled up not just

1:16:19.080 --> 1:16:23.920
<v Speaker 1>by uh folks like myself, but actual CIA agents too.

1:16:24.439 --> 1:16:27.599
<v Speaker 1>They want to see the In some ways, you're helping

1:16:27.600 --> 1:16:30.280
<v Speaker 1>to paint a bigger picture. They're they're in their own departments,

1:16:30.280 --> 1:16:34.120
<v Speaker 1>they're in their own silos. You're, you're, you're, you're in

1:16:34.120 --> 1:16:38.280
<v Speaker 1>some ways probably showing them the larger picture that they

1:16:38.280 --> 1:16:39.400
<v Speaker 1>don't get to see every day.

1:16:40.479 --> 1:16:43.840
<v Speaker 2>I note with pleasures as we speak, the book is

1:16:43.960 --> 1:16:47.240
<v Speaker 2>number three on the bestseller list of New York Times

1:16:48.560 --> 1:16:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Listen to Starships.

1:16:50.000 --> 1:16:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Well hopefully it's number one by the time we dropped.

1:16:52.160 --> 1:16:53.280
<v Speaker 1>We dropped this podcast.

1:16:54.040 --> 1:17:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's not happen. Uh. The both the left and

1:17:04.439 --> 1:17:08.559
<v Speaker 2>the right and the center for that matter, have a

1:17:08.680 --> 1:17:12.519
<v Speaker 2>very distorted picture of what the CIA is and what

1:17:12.640 --> 1:17:16.920
<v Speaker 2>it does and how it works. It's not like in

1:17:16.920 --> 1:17:20.719
<v Speaker 2>the movie and TV it. You know, your average CIA

1:17:20.920 --> 1:17:26.240
<v Speaker 2>officer does not perps in regret, you know, applying to

1:17:26.280 --> 1:17:30.360
<v Speaker 2>a foreign capital of French quote Ava Martini, make love,

1:17:30.720 --> 1:17:34.240
<v Speaker 2>overthrow the government and leave on the Midnight book. That's

1:17:34.280 --> 1:17:42.200
<v Speaker 2>not how it works. The mission of the CIA is

1:17:42.240 --> 1:17:47.760
<v Speaker 2>to figure out what's happening in the world. Okay, that

1:17:47.960 --> 1:17:56.160
<v Speaker 2>is a vital function. And if the CIA in its reported,

1:17:57.880 --> 1:18:02.559
<v Speaker 2>and of course they had made catastrophic mistakes in the past,

1:18:03.320 --> 1:18:06.599
<v Speaker 2>as we all know, you know by saying, for example,

1:18:06.640 --> 1:18:11.000
<v Speaker 2>it's that I'm staying had uh you know our toolm

1:18:11.080 --> 1:18:15.000
<v Speaker 2>brickling weapons of mass destruction, and you know the stench

1:18:15.280 --> 1:18:18.920
<v Speaker 2>of that lasted for a long time. But if the

1:18:19.040 --> 1:18:26.799
<v Speaker 2>CIA in its reporting tells the president something terrible has happened,

1:18:27.120 --> 1:18:30.639
<v Speaker 2>something terrible is likely to happen in the not dis

1:18:30.720 --> 1:18:35.479
<v Speaker 2>in the future, and the president of the bull kit,

1:18:37.280 --> 1:18:42.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't believe it. If the CIA is not believed,

1:18:42.400 --> 1:18:51.240
<v Speaker 2>it has no purfect right. And you know, uh, substantial

1:18:51.360 --> 1:18:55.559
<v Speaker 2>risks are taken in trying to gather information over seasons,

1:18:56.520 --> 1:19:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Risks to the recruited agents, risks to the officers themselves

1:19:02.840 --> 1:19:05.439
<v Speaker 2>at the dirty, typicult, dangerous business. And you're going to

1:19:05.479 --> 1:19:12.280
<v Speaker 2>get burned from ton. But if you're a superpower, you

1:19:12.479 --> 1:19:17.320
<v Speaker 2>need an intelligence service to look over the horizons, and

1:19:17.360 --> 1:19:23.280
<v Speaker 2>it anticipates surprise, and if you don't have that, you're

1:19:23.320 --> 1:19:24.360
<v Speaker 2>gonna get surprised.

1:19:26.560 --> 1:19:30.799
<v Speaker 1>We spent a lot of time on Russia and Europe.

1:19:31.280 --> 1:19:35.480
<v Speaker 1>How you know, one of the concerns over The last

1:19:35.840 --> 1:19:37.599
<v Speaker 1>one of the concerns, for instance, in the Middle East

1:19:37.640 --> 1:19:40.759
<v Speaker 1>was do we have enough human resources, human intelligence in Iran,

1:19:41.080 --> 1:19:43.720
<v Speaker 1>human intelligence in the Middle East. Well, let me ask

1:19:43.720 --> 1:19:45.080
<v Speaker 1>the same question about China.

1:19:46.200 --> 1:19:48.280
<v Speaker 2>How how.

1:19:50.600 --> 1:19:54.559
<v Speaker 1>How wired in is the CIA with China compared to

1:19:54.640 --> 1:19:57.920
<v Speaker 1>how wired it is in Russia. We clearly are well

1:19:57.920 --> 1:20:00.479
<v Speaker 1>wired in Russia. Look at I mean, I think, you know,

1:20:00.640 --> 1:20:03.800
<v Speaker 1>the biggest win for the CIA in the last ten

1:20:03.880 --> 1:20:08.519
<v Speaker 1>years is you know, basically teleg you know, showing the

1:20:08.520 --> 1:20:11.400
<v Speaker 1>world telling Zelenski. You know, you got to believe us.

1:20:11.560 --> 1:20:14.439
<v Speaker 1>Look at our intel here right, the the intel that

1:20:14.520 --> 1:20:17.519
<v Speaker 1>Russia was going to invade Ukraine is a is a

1:20:17.560 --> 1:20:20.519
<v Speaker 1>win right for the for the intel community on this one.

1:20:21.439 --> 1:20:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And and in the mission, I tell what I think, brother,

1:20:25.320 --> 1:20:30.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, gripping story of how after the Russians monkey

1:20:30.560 --> 1:20:34.920
<v Speaker 2>wrench in the twenty sixteen election, the head of the

1:20:35.000 --> 1:20:39.080
<v Speaker 2>chief spy, the head the Clanderton service man named Tomas Rakutar,

1:20:39.280 --> 1:20:44.160
<v Speaker 2>who reached with check, said, the Russians just manipulated our

1:20:44.200 --> 1:20:46.080
<v Speaker 2>freaking election. How are we going to make sure this

1:20:46.160 --> 1:20:48.920
<v Speaker 2>never happens again? And he ginned up a call to

1:20:49.120 --> 1:20:52.479
<v Speaker 2>arms and the result for years later is that the

1:20:52.560 --> 1:20:56.040
<v Speaker 2>CID Vladimir Futla's war plans out of the Kremlin.

1:20:56.680 --> 1:20:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Right.

1:20:57.040 --> 1:21:01.880
<v Speaker 2>That is espionage, and that is the proopuse of epstinas.

1:21:01.920 --> 1:21:06.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, you're envy shinner. In the first decade of

1:21:06.960 --> 1:21:12.800
<v Speaker 2>this century, the CI built a remarkable network of recruited

1:21:13.000 --> 1:21:21.439
<v Speaker 2>foreign agents, recruited Chinese, probably a thirty Gilbert pay people

1:21:22.000 --> 1:21:26.479
<v Speaker 2>who were up and coming rising stars in the Chinan's

1:21:26.520 --> 1:21:32.280
<v Speaker 2>poet Buro, the Chinese military, the Chinese Communist Party, and

1:21:32.600 --> 1:21:36.679
<v Speaker 2>notably the Chinese Ministry of State secured their chief spot service.

1:21:37.800 --> 1:21:40.960
<v Speaker 2>And they did this by recognizing how corrupt the Chinese

1:21:41.000 --> 1:21:46.120
<v Speaker 2>political system was, and by paying their promotion kees broad

1:21:46.840 --> 1:21:50.200
<v Speaker 2>that they had to pay to claw their way up

1:21:50.240 --> 1:21:54.000
<v Speaker 2>the greasy poll. And these were substantial keys, you know,

1:21:54.160 --> 1:22:00.240
<v Speaker 2>millions of dollars, and by roughly twenty ten they had

1:22:00.400 --> 1:22:06.519
<v Speaker 2>an agent network in China that was remarkable. One by

1:22:06.600 --> 1:22:07.240
<v Speaker 2>one by.

1:22:07.160 --> 1:22:15.080
<v Speaker 5>One, between twenty ten and twenty twelve, these people were

1:22:15.960 --> 1:22:26.280
<v Speaker 5>identified by the Chinese, arrested, tortured, and killed, and the

1:22:26.360 --> 1:22:30.960
<v Speaker 5>camera intelligence people at CIA are still trying to set

1:22:31.000 --> 1:22:34.880
<v Speaker 5>out how it happened, although they have two of the

1:22:35.040 --> 1:22:38.200
<v Speaker 5>three pieces of the puzzle that they need.

1:22:37.960 --> 1:22:40.360
<v Speaker 1>This is ten years later and they still don't quite know.

1:22:40.320 --> 1:22:50.800
<v Speaker 2>How they got intelligence investigation tape decades sometimes wow years

1:22:50.960 --> 1:22:59.040
<v Speaker 2>years with the norm. And so gradually the CIA is

1:22:59.080 --> 1:23:03.320
<v Speaker 2>attempted to get back in the game in China because

1:23:03.400 --> 1:23:08.840
<v Speaker 2>they long term will be our strongest addressary in the

1:23:08.880 --> 1:23:17.799
<v Speaker 2>twenty first century. Yeah, and win k Burtns, the CIA

1:23:17.880 --> 1:23:23.160
<v Speaker 2>director under Biden, established a very large China Mission center

1:23:24.600 --> 1:23:27.200
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four. The CIA

1:23:27.320 --> 1:23:30.599
<v Speaker 2>hired a very large number of people, train them up,

1:23:31.800 --> 1:23:37.240
<v Speaker 2>make sure they assible Chinese, and you know, put them

1:23:37.280 --> 1:23:40.400
<v Speaker 2>in the Chinese China Mission Center, go forth and smile

1:23:40.479 --> 1:23:45.960
<v Speaker 2>on China. When Radcliffe came into office, he summarily dismissed

1:23:46.040 --> 1:23:49.880
<v Speaker 2>everyone that CIA had hired and trained in twenty twenty

1:23:49.880 --> 1:23:52.640
<v Speaker 2>three and twenty twenty four because they were Biden hires

1:23:52.800 --> 1:23:56.040
<v Speaker 2>and Elon musk Polding the cut five percent out of

1:23:56.320 --> 1:23:56.680
<v Speaker 2>if they.

1:23:56.680 --> 1:23:58.800
<v Speaker 1>Were inside the two year whatever it was, so they

1:23:58.800 --> 1:24:00.799
<v Speaker 1>could easily canary period.

1:24:00.800 --> 1:24:05.120
<v Speaker 2>That's right now, Well, this is madness, Chuck, my god,

1:24:05.160 --> 1:24:05.479
<v Speaker 2>it is.

1:24:05.720 --> 1:24:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:24:09.160 --> 1:24:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Then he took their names, their true first names and

1:24:13.280 --> 1:24:18.720
<v Speaker 2>first initials, all these people and sent them an unclassified

1:24:19.080 --> 1:24:22.160
<v Speaker 2>email to the White House and Elon Mutz and his

1:24:22.320 --> 1:24:26.120
<v Speaker 2>doge brods, so he closed them all. Wow, and the

1:24:26.200 --> 1:24:32.200
<v Speaker 2>doge bros are walking cardiffs. They are they do not

1:24:32.360 --> 1:24:36.280
<v Speaker 2>have good op sec. You know, they do not have

1:24:36.360 --> 1:24:42.880
<v Speaker 2>good hygiene when it comes to guarding against somebody. You know, think, hey,

1:24:42.920 --> 1:24:45.920
<v Speaker 2>bro on a LinkedIn, how would you like a really

1:24:45.920 --> 1:24:48.800
<v Speaker 2>good job working from the X y G Corps? And

1:24:48.840 --> 1:24:50.000
<v Speaker 2>they're Chinese spire.

1:24:51.080 --> 1:24:55.360
<v Speaker 1>So what you're saying is DOSEE may have just provided

1:24:55.400 --> 1:24:58.360
<v Speaker 1>the dose staffers that were all brought in by Mosque

1:24:58.840 --> 1:25:03.280
<v Speaker 1>may have essentially been the type of guys that like

1:25:03.320 --> 1:25:05.439
<v Speaker 1>come into a backyard and forget to shut the gate.

1:25:06.760 --> 1:25:11.560
<v Speaker 1>And they basically were they that easy marks for Chinese espionage.

1:25:12.080 --> 1:25:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Each of them has a gigantic bullseye target on their back.

1:25:15.640 --> 1:25:15.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:25:17.080 --> 1:25:20.879
<v Speaker 2>The Chinese have already penetrated all the US hell coms,

1:25:21.160 --> 1:25:26.240
<v Speaker 2>the unclassified systems of the US government, and ten years

1:25:26.280 --> 1:25:31.760
<v Speaker 2>ago they broke into electronically the Office of Personnel Management

1:25:31.800 --> 1:25:34.920
<v Speaker 2>and DC and stole the personnel files of everyone twenty

1:25:34.920 --> 1:25:38.360
<v Speaker 2>two and a half million people who worked for the government.

1:25:38.560 --> 1:25:41.040
<v Speaker 1>Because my understanding, not just personnel, but I think even

1:25:41.080 --> 1:25:42.920
<v Speaker 1>you and I are in that list because we've been

1:25:42.960 --> 1:25:45.800
<v Speaker 1>credentialed by the federal government. If you've ever had a

1:25:45.840 --> 1:25:50.200
<v Speaker 1>credential from the Pentagon or the White House, I think

1:25:50.200 --> 1:25:51.480
<v Speaker 1>we're in those files.

1:25:51.680 --> 1:25:56.160
<v Speaker 2>But also in those files through security clearance forms of

1:25:56.240 --> 1:26:00.360
<v Speaker 2>everybody who worths at CIA, okay, including packboard and information

1:26:00.520 --> 1:26:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Kata burt true names. Okay. The Chinese took this incredible

1:26:05.439 --> 1:26:13.360
<v Speaker 2>treasure trobe they uh uh cross indexed it with biometric

1:26:13.479 --> 1:26:18.160
<v Speaker 2>data stolen from the world's international airports when you have

1:26:18.680 --> 1:26:24.160
<v Speaker 2>asport control. They gave it all to Alibaba. Ali Baba

1:26:24.160 --> 1:26:27.639
<v Speaker 2>crunched it. And now the CIA has a pretty good

1:26:27.800 --> 1:26:32.439
<v Speaker 2>person self following everybody working for CIA. Okay. And if

1:26:32.439 --> 1:26:37.280
<v Speaker 2>you are a CIA officer newly stationed abroad and you

1:26:37.320 --> 1:26:41.160
<v Speaker 2>are gathering your bags at the baggage carousel in a while,

1:26:41.200 --> 1:26:46.320
<v Speaker 2>the Doogu or Kuwhala, Lumpur or Beijing, likely enough a

1:26:46.439 --> 1:26:49.599
<v Speaker 2>Chinese intelligence officer to come right up, he sticks figuring

1:26:49.640 --> 1:26:55.680
<v Speaker 2>your chest and say, hey, show I know you are.

1:26:55.720 --> 1:27:01.360
<v Speaker 1>We just have we penetrated the Chinese government effectively. I

1:27:01.360 --> 1:27:04.200
<v Speaker 1>mean I always assume whatever we're being done to us,

1:27:04.439 --> 1:27:05.240
<v Speaker 1>we're doing to them.

1:27:06.760 --> 1:27:11.000
<v Speaker 2>What the Chin The short answer is no, and long

1:27:11.120 --> 1:27:16.840
<v Speaker 2>answer is the Russians and the Chinese have two very

1:27:16.880 --> 1:27:22.160
<v Speaker 2>different cultures and their intelligence. The Russians just want to

1:27:22.240 --> 1:27:25.919
<v Speaker 2>screw us, but the Chinese want to know us, okay,

1:27:26.600 --> 1:27:31.160
<v Speaker 2>and their goal is to take the surveillance steake that

1:27:31.240 --> 1:27:34.920
<v Speaker 2>they have established in China. Up on top of your head,

1:27:34.920 --> 1:27:38.920
<v Speaker 2>how many GTTV cameras do you think there are in

1:27:39.000 --> 1:27:41.760
<v Speaker 2>China looking down at the.

1:27:43.680 --> 1:27:48.519
<v Speaker 1>I'd assume, just at any individual, probably ten, all over

1:27:48.840 --> 1:27:52.200
<v Speaker 1>all over the country, right all about mainline China. How

1:27:52.240 --> 1:27:55.639
<v Speaker 1>many GGTV I'm going to assume millions, I mean probably

1:27:55.640 --> 1:27:58.599
<v Speaker 1>a million, half a billion, half a billion, even more.

1:27:59.040 --> 1:28:03.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but g licis, plate readers, plus you know, eyeball stands,

1:28:03.680 --> 1:28:07.040
<v Speaker 2>plus you know, you go to pay something on your phone,

1:28:07.080 --> 1:28:08.400
<v Speaker 2>they got your data, all.

1:28:08.360 --> 1:28:10.520
<v Speaker 1>Right, Well you could say that about our contrade.

1:28:11.000 --> 1:28:13.400
<v Speaker 2>What they want to do, What the Chinese want to

1:28:13.439 --> 1:28:18.160
<v Speaker 2>do is to project their surveillance state into the United States. Okay.

1:28:18.439 --> 1:28:23.400
<v Speaker 2>They've already stone not just the opposite personnel management files,

1:28:23.439 --> 1:28:28.360
<v Speaker 2>the healthcare records, hundreds of millions of them per Anthem, okay,

1:28:29.280 --> 1:28:32.080
<v Speaker 2>and a number of other data hauls. As I mentioned,

1:28:32.160 --> 1:28:36.120
<v Speaker 2>they penetrated all the health comms, and what they want

1:28:36.160 --> 1:28:41.120
<v Speaker 2>to do is if more conflict or crisis comes, they

1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:45.759
<v Speaker 2>want a complete information dominance. They want to see the enemy,

1:28:45.880 --> 1:28:50.720
<v Speaker 2>see the battlefield mapping, and they're well on the way

1:28:50.720 --> 1:28:58.880
<v Speaker 2>to that. Chuck and Trump has dismantled every single cybersecurity

1:29:00.920 --> 1:29:03.240
<v Speaker 2>entity of the government that was set up after the

1:29:03.280 --> 1:29:08.960
<v Speaker 2>Russian hack of the twenty sixteen election, dis medled them them. Okay,

1:29:09.160 --> 1:29:12.479
<v Speaker 2>we are defenseless against this kind of thing because Trump

1:29:12.560 --> 1:29:16.120
<v Speaker 2>wants it that way, because those agencies.

1:29:16.360 --> 1:29:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Right upheld.

1:29:20.320 --> 1:29:26.240
<v Speaker 2>The true story of the cooperation between Team Trump and Tate,

1:29:26.360 --> 1:29:30.040
<v Speaker 2>Team Putin and the actions of Team Putin in the

1:29:30.120 --> 1:29:35.320
<v Speaker 2>twenty sixth election. So narrative, the club is now attempting

1:29:35.360 --> 1:29:36.120
<v Speaker 2>the memory hole.

1:29:46.240 --> 1:29:48.800
<v Speaker 1>So what does this do for us on cyber? I mean,

1:29:48.840 --> 1:29:54.080
<v Speaker 1>it's the CIA. Are they as forward leaning on cyber

1:29:54.720 --> 1:29:55.640
<v Speaker 1>as NSA is?

1:29:57.720 --> 1:30:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Well? Any day is about is several multiples bigger than I.

1:30:03.360 --> 1:30:08.160
<v Speaker 2>And they have the cyber Command they have lead CIA

1:30:08.400 --> 1:30:11.960
<v Speaker 2>come up with a new sort of digital directorate that's

1:30:12.040 --> 1:30:15.160
<v Speaker 2>now ten years old, and they are trying very hard

1:30:15.160 --> 1:30:21.080
<v Speaker 2>to get up to speed. Okay. The trouble with it

1:30:21.640 --> 1:30:30.439
<v Speaker 2>at the CIA is secrecy and compart petrolization. Okay, you

1:30:30.479 --> 1:30:35.800
<v Speaker 2>know the CIA was criticized, and rightly so, for a

1:30:36.240 --> 1:30:41.040
<v Speaker 2>failure to share intelligence with IF friends and enemies at

1:30:41.040 --> 1:30:44.280
<v Speaker 2>the FBI and elsewhere in the government before nine eleven.

1:30:44.800 --> 1:30:49.840
<v Speaker 2>So then after nine to eleven, the in Washington it's

1:30:49.840 --> 1:30:52.200
<v Speaker 2>something goes from me go one hundred day experienced in

1:30:52.200 --> 1:30:57.679
<v Speaker 2>the other direction. The impetus was, then there's a need

1:30:57.720 --> 1:31:02.960
<v Speaker 2>to tear, a need to share, not a need to know,

1:31:04.400 --> 1:31:05.439
<v Speaker 2>but a need to share.

1:31:06.080 --> 1:31:10.840
<v Speaker 6>Okay, well, how do you think you know, Julian Assange

1:31:10.920 --> 1:31:15.240
<v Speaker 6>hacked into the classified systems of the government because of

1:31:15.280 --> 1:31:19.080
<v Speaker 6>a need to share, and he found, you know, a.

1:31:21.400 --> 1:31:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Army private Chelsea Manning, who you know naively did his

1:31:28.000 --> 1:31:31.559
<v Speaker 2>bidding and that was to be you know, as Thane

1:31:31.640 --> 1:31:35.440
<v Speaker 2>was a Russian agent. He has pleading guilty aspion architernatives.

1:31:37.640 --> 1:31:40.719
<v Speaker 2>And that's an example of the need to share net work.

1:31:43.360 --> 1:31:47.519
<v Speaker 2>It's a fine line between the needs own need to share.

1:31:48.320 --> 1:31:52.240
<v Speaker 2>But we're Americans. We're an open people. We love everybody,

1:31:52.240 --> 1:31:53.240
<v Speaker 2>we trust everybody.

1:31:53.320 --> 1:32:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Right, you interviewed all six heads of the CIA, not Radcliffe.

1:31:59.880 --> 1:32:03.680
<v Speaker 7>I assume right he wasn't added. The CIA w a

1:32:03.680 --> 1:32:07.640
<v Speaker 7>anything up that book. I got hit him into the epilogue,

1:32:08.000 --> 1:32:10.479
<v Speaker 7>but no, Radcliffe doesn't do interview period.

1:32:14.280 --> 1:32:17.840
<v Speaker 1>Who understood the mission best? I don't want to say

1:32:17.840 --> 1:32:20.400
<v Speaker 1>who was the best, but who understood the mission best?

1:32:20.400 --> 1:32:25.120
<v Speaker 1>Tenant Hayden, Panetta, Petraeus, Brennan, Gena haspell Bill Burns. Who

1:32:25.160 --> 1:32:27.840
<v Speaker 1>do you feel like Burns? That's what I thought too.

1:32:28.000 --> 1:32:31.439
<v Speaker 1>Burns feels like the perfect I'm glad you said it.

1:32:31.479 --> 1:32:33.240
<v Speaker 1>I I didn't want to lead you. You said it,

1:32:33.280 --> 1:32:34.920
<v Speaker 1>so now I am going to lead you. I mean,

1:32:35.040 --> 1:32:38.320
<v Speaker 1>Burns might have been the best equipped I had the

1:32:38.360 --> 1:32:40.080
<v Speaker 1>CIA in the moment we live in right now.

1:32:41.720 --> 1:32:45.200
<v Speaker 2>In addition to being widely you know acknowledge is the

1:32:45.200 --> 1:32:50.520
<v Speaker 2>greatest American diplomat of the generation. Burns had been ambassador

1:32:50.600 --> 1:32:54.840
<v Speaker 2>to Russia e fluent Russian, had been ambachored in Jordan's

1:32:55.280 --> 1:32:59.160
<v Speaker 2>fluent Arabic, had been the head of the State Department,

1:32:59.360 --> 1:33:06.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, Middle EU directorates, and the Deputy Secretary of State.

1:33:07.240 --> 1:33:11.519
<v Speaker 2>This is a man who nubs the world. And this

1:33:11.800 --> 1:33:15.439
<v Speaker 2>is the man who realized that intelligence is not something

1:33:15.720 --> 1:33:21.240
<v Speaker 2>necessarily to be hidden in a faith once it's obtained

1:33:21.840 --> 1:33:27.479
<v Speaker 2>that intelligence is information and that information is power. And

1:33:27.560 --> 1:33:31.559
<v Speaker 2>when the CIA, after a four year remarkable effort that

1:33:31.960 --> 1:33:37.320
<v Speaker 2>details somewhat book lay in the mission Dold Glaimer Pruden's

1:33:37.360 --> 1:33:40.760
<v Speaker 2>war plans out of the Kremlin. Burns said, we need

1:33:40.800 --> 1:33:46.200
<v Speaker 2>to tell the world about it, right, okay, incredibly sensitive

1:33:46.320 --> 1:33:49.880
<v Speaker 2>secret intelligence that we have stolen from under Prutent's nods.

1:33:51.040 --> 1:33:53.679
<v Speaker 1>Let me Pauld you right, there would any other CIA

1:33:53.760 --> 1:33:57.599
<v Speaker 1>de head that you had interviewed over the years come

1:33:57.640 --> 1:33:59.720
<v Speaker 1>to that conclusion that Burns came to. I mean, I

1:33:59.720 --> 1:34:03.760
<v Speaker 1>feel like pre Burns, if you've stole some that valuable,

1:34:04.400 --> 1:34:07.280
<v Speaker 1>that the inclination of every other CIA head would be

1:34:09.080 --> 1:34:10.080
<v Speaker 1>keep it, keep it close.

1:34:10.280 --> 1:34:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Don't expect I'm gonna yes that Leon Panetta would have

1:34:14.360 --> 1:34:18.960
<v Speaker 2>done it, done it weekly Panetta. One of Panetta's great

1:34:19.000 --> 1:34:23.320
<v Speaker 2>advantages when he came to CIA under Obama was that

1:34:23.600 --> 1:34:26.520
<v Speaker 2>he had been a congressman, what eighteen terms.

1:34:27.080 --> 1:34:29.879
<v Speaker 1>As we're the only only person to run the CIA

1:34:29.920 --> 1:34:31.840
<v Speaker 1>who was an elected official at any point in time

1:34:31.840 --> 1:34:35.560
<v Speaker 1>in his career John Radcliffe and now John Radcliffe of

1:34:35.560 --> 1:34:44.439
<v Speaker 1>course and portered god oh right, was ghost yes country, Yes,

1:34:44.760 --> 1:34:48.479
<v Speaker 1>I forgot about it. That was the pride of Florida.

1:34:48.720 --> 1:34:49.800
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

1:34:49.960 --> 1:34:52.559
<v Speaker 2>But you know, Panetta had also been White House Cheep,

1:34:52.960 --> 1:34:57.960
<v Speaker 2>the White House budget Director. He has UH in that

1:34:58.280 --> 1:35:04.240
<v Speaker 2>field political judge. Yeah, because of her perhaps despite about

1:35:04.240 --> 1:35:08.000
<v Speaker 2>it experience, and you would have done it with a

1:35:08.080 --> 1:35:09.719
<v Speaker 2>big smile on his face.

1:35:10.280 --> 1:35:14.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but that's it, right, not betray us. I don't

1:35:14.560 --> 1:35:16.760
<v Speaker 1>take tenant right. Those guys don't do it right.

1:35:19.840 --> 1:35:23.439
<v Speaker 2>You know, this is this is uh counter factuals. What

1:35:23.680 --> 1:35:31.200
<v Speaker 2>might not have happened there? But Burns had Burns practiced

1:35:31.560 --> 1:35:38.360
<v Speaker 2>intelligence diplomas. You remember Evan Berchami, the Wall fut General reporter,

1:35:38.560 --> 1:35:42.080
<v Speaker 2>was in much of Britney gran here. Uh. The the

1:35:42.160 --> 1:35:44.000
<v Speaker 2>w went the eighth Star in prison in Russia, had

1:35:44.000 --> 1:35:47.880
<v Speaker 2>a number of other political prisoners that boot held who

1:35:47.920 --> 1:35:52.960
<v Speaker 2>were released about a year ago. Uh, and flew back

1:35:53.880 --> 1:35:58.400
<v Speaker 2>to Dover and Biden and Kamala Harris were there. Burned

1:35:58.400 --> 1:36:05.720
<v Speaker 2>to TI did that Yeah, bull stop So intelligence diplomacy,

1:36:06.479 --> 1:36:13.040
<v Speaker 2>intelligence that by uh an accomplished ship from that man.

1:36:13.080 --> 1:36:19.400
<v Speaker 2>That's that's a high ideal. What we have now is

1:36:20.800 --> 1:36:26.759
<v Speaker 2>the reverse, uh, which is intelligence has politics, not diplomas.

1:36:27.439 --> 1:36:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let me get you out of here on this.

1:36:29.160 --> 1:36:33.080
<v Speaker 1>And it's a it's a it's the boutique CIA issue

1:36:33.080 --> 1:36:37.439
<v Speaker 1>for the conspiracy theorists. Why does the CIA fight the

1:36:37.439 --> 1:36:40.880
<v Speaker 1>release of these JFK files so much. I mean, I

1:36:40.920 --> 1:36:43.600
<v Speaker 1>have my thesis, but but why do they fight it

1:36:43.720 --> 1:36:45.320
<v Speaker 1>so much at this point?

1:36:45.360 --> 1:36:48.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, I can, I mean, I can tell you why

1:36:49.360 --> 1:36:54.000
<v Speaker 2>because those files contain the names and identities of recruited

1:36:54.439 --> 1:37:00.320
<v Speaker 2>hurban agents. Okay, and the lap dune. There were a

1:37:00.400 --> 1:37:05.880
<v Speaker 2>number of people a bill whom were still alive who

1:37:05.960 --> 1:37:11.880
<v Speaker 2>got burned from that, and you know that's bad ju ju,

1:37:12.240 --> 1:37:20.000
<v Speaker 2>you don't do that. To answer the larger question, you

1:37:20.080 --> 1:37:24.000
<v Speaker 2>know that tenders of millions of Americas believed that the

1:37:24.040 --> 1:37:29.600
<v Speaker 2>CIA killed JB. Yeah, it's fat that they believed that.

1:37:31.400 --> 1:37:36.639
<v Speaker 2>And the reason they believed that is that not long

1:37:36.680 --> 1:37:43.960
<v Speaker 2>after the assassination of President Kennedy, the KGB put out elaborate,

1:37:43.960 --> 1:37:48.640
<v Speaker 2>reconstructed disinformation that appeared person foreign papers and the American

1:37:48.760 --> 1:37:53.160
<v Speaker 2>papers that the CIA did kill JFK and was part of,

1:37:53.439 --> 1:37:57.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, a massive conspiracy to do so uncovered up.

1:37:58.520 --> 1:38:02.760
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen sixty seven, Pack the Wollan's restrict attorney named

1:38:02.840 --> 1:38:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Jim Garrison prosecuted and persecuted a New Orleans businessman who

1:38:09.240 --> 1:38:12.400
<v Speaker 2>had once or twice's been the Greek by the Iopa

1:38:12.520 --> 1:38:16.559
<v Speaker 2>seas and said, you know, he had conspired with osbal

1:38:16.720 --> 1:38:19.479
<v Speaker 2>killed every Well, the jury threw that out about fay

1:38:19.520 --> 1:38:23.200
<v Speaker 2>two minutes. And then twenty five years later OLIVERT. Stone

1:38:23.240 --> 1:38:24.720
<v Speaker 2>made a move and.

1:38:24.720 --> 1:38:28.160
<v Speaker 1>Put day Garrison in it. By the way, Yeah, he

1:38:28.240 --> 1:38:28.640
<v Speaker 1>played the.

1:38:28.720 --> 1:38:33.760
<v Speaker 2>Judge with millions in American saw and Congress's reaction was,

1:38:33.840 --> 1:38:35.960
<v Speaker 2>we had to release all these files because there may

1:38:35.960 --> 1:38:39.719
<v Speaker 2>be some dark, terrible secret hidden in them. American people

1:38:39.800 --> 1:38:44.280
<v Speaker 2>need to know. I once to put this question to

1:38:44.479 --> 1:38:52.200
<v Speaker 2>Richard held who u was the CIS director from nineteen

1:38:52.240 --> 1:38:55.760
<v Speaker 2>sixty sixt in nineteen w three and the head of

1:38:55.800 --> 1:38:58.960
<v Speaker 2>its Plants and Service at the time of the JFKs.

1:39:01.120 --> 1:39:03.800
<v Speaker 2>And he says, well, you come to a court in

1:39:03.840 --> 1:39:10.519
<v Speaker 2>the room. Either you believe that Lee Harvey Oswalder trained

1:39:10.600 --> 1:39:14.439
<v Speaker 2>marine marksman not off a million to one shot, or

1:39:15.040 --> 1:39:18.400
<v Speaker 2>you believe that the intelligence services of the Soviet Union

1:39:18.479 --> 1:39:21.719
<v Speaker 2>and Cuba conspired to capitate the government of the United

1:39:21.720 --> 1:39:27.120
<v Speaker 2>States by killing its president. It's one or the other.

1:39:28.200 --> 1:39:31.400
<v Speaker 2>The CIA, during the course of the Cold War, after

1:39:33.240 --> 1:39:37.080
<v Speaker 2>committed many mistines, almost all of them at the beads

1:39:37.360 --> 1:39:40.679
<v Speaker 2>of President. I mean, do you think that a couple

1:39:40.680 --> 1:39:43.000
<v Speaker 2>of CI offered FOP were sitting around in a kind

1:39:43.000 --> 1:39:46.640
<v Speaker 2>of a mad man setting in nineteen sixty having their

1:39:46.680 --> 1:39:49.639
<v Speaker 2>second or third Martiginis, and one of them said, Hey,

1:39:51.240 --> 1:39:54.280
<v Speaker 2>I have a good idea. Let's go to the old cadel.

1:39:56.360 --> 1:39:57.200
<v Speaker 2>That didn't happen.

1:39:57.760 --> 1:39:59.120
<v Speaker 1>No, it was a residence.

1:39:59.240 --> 1:40:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Eisenhower and Kennedy and President Kennedy's brother Bobby Right bonded Fidel.

1:40:10.120 --> 1:40:18.439
<v Speaker 2>Conspiracy theories, Chuck, are gonna be a contributing factor to

1:40:18.520 --> 1:40:22.679
<v Speaker 2>the death of American democracy should that terrible event. Company

1:40:22.760 --> 1:40:31.240
<v Speaker 2>path conspiracy theories are in this country are not only

1:40:31.320 --> 1:40:37.040
<v Speaker 2>home grown, they are concocted by the intelligence services to

1:40:37.080 --> 1:40:43.519
<v Speaker 2>Brussia and China, right, the Russians millions of this country,

1:40:43.720 --> 1:40:47.040
<v Speaker 2>but millions of people in this country believe that the

1:40:47.080 --> 1:40:52.000
<v Speaker 2>aged virus was manufactured in their laboratory run by the

1:40:52.200 --> 1:40:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Army in Maryland. You know, put that story out a

1:40:56.600 --> 1:41:02.240
<v Speaker 2>g okay. Millions of Americans believe it, and you cannot

1:41:02.280 --> 1:41:10.920
<v Speaker 2>mon they We're people have no Please. You have a

1:41:10.960 --> 1:41:16.160
<v Speaker 2>president today who, like Bladder, wants you to believe that

1:41:16.200 --> 1:41:19.560
<v Speaker 2>there are no facts and there is no truth. You

1:41:19.680 --> 1:41:23.400
<v Speaker 2>might as well just give up. Yeah, that will be

1:41:23.479 --> 1:41:24.000
<v Speaker 2>the death of it.

1:41:25.240 --> 1:41:27.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, the one theory that I wanted to throw by

1:41:27.800 --> 1:41:31.200
<v Speaker 1>you is that that the CIA is also petrified that

1:41:31.320 --> 1:41:34.760
<v Speaker 1>when you start pulling the thread on Oswald, and the

1:41:34.760 --> 1:41:37.760
<v Speaker 1>thread being they probably had him under surveillance, they kind

1:41:37.800 --> 1:41:41.000
<v Speaker 1>of knew a little something about them, but that it

1:41:41.120 --> 1:41:45.520
<v Speaker 1>was almost, Oh, no, they're going to believe we were involved,

1:41:46.800 --> 1:41:48.840
<v Speaker 1>and that there was a fear like it, like the

1:41:49.240 --> 1:41:52.920
<v Speaker 1>revert like it. They're gonna like, why weren't we on

1:41:53.000 --> 1:41:54.560
<v Speaker 1>top of this type of mindset?

1:41:55.720 --> 1:41:55.920
<v Speaker 6>Uh?

1:41:56.000 --> 1:41:57.800
<v Speaker 1>And oh, by the way, we don't want they don't

1:41:57.800 --> 1:41:59.559
<v Speaker 1>want everybody to know what the hell we were doing

1:41:59.560 --> 1:42:01.040
<v Speaker 1>in South America all the time.

1:42:01.800 --> 1:42:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Of course it CEI had a file on Lee rb Us. Well,

1:42:05.479 --> 1:42:13.679
<v Speaker 2>he was a marine who defected the Soviet Union, right exactly. Okay,

1:42:13.880 --> 1:42:18.519
<v Speaker 2>you know who screwed up. The FBI screwed up. The

1:42:18.680 --> 1:42:22.760
<v Speaker 2>FBI should have had this man on the surveilance includes surveillance,

1:42:24.360 --> 1:42:29.160
<v Speaker 2>particularly after he went down to the US embassy, sorry,

1:42:29.240 --> 1:42:32.120
<v Speaker 2>and particularly after he went down in the Soviet embassy

1:42:32.160 --> 1:42:35.040
<v Speaker 2>in Mexico City trying to find a way out of

1:42:35.040 --> 1:42:41.040
<v Speaker 2>the United States. The FBI, thanks to the Mexican Secret Service,

1:42:41.360 --> 1:42:48.280
<v Speaker 2>had that embassy wired. Okay for the FBI and Jaggar Hoover.

1:42:48.560 --> 1:42:54.400
<v Speaker 2>After the assassination disciplined I think it was nineteen FBI

1:42:54.439 --> 1:42:58.240
<v Speaker 2>agents and said that they were guilty of growth snag wars.

1:42:59.000 --> 1:43:02.880
<v Speaker 2>So you want to Blayne in and on Jen or

1:43:02.920 --> 1:43:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Hoover in the FBI, who in their declassified files that

1:43:07.720 --> 1:43:12.599
<v Speaker 2>I wrote about in Enemy's History in the FBI, UVU's

1:43:12.720 --> 1:43:18.000
<v Speaker 2>like maya freaking Kulpaman, we blew up. But the CIA

1:43:18.240 --> 1:43:21.800
<v Speaker 2>did not kill President Kenny, nor did it have a

1:43:21.880 --> 1:43:30.439
<v Speaker 2>hand in a conspiracy to cover up the real killer. Yeah.

1:43:30.479 --> 1:43:34.640
<v Speaker 1>Look, it's uh, it's pretty clear that that they just it.

1:43:36.400 --> 1:43:38.960
<v Speaker 1>I think you just said it earlier. Best. We don't

1:43:39.040 --> 1:43:42.599
<v Speaker 1>keep secrets very well, and if this was some big secret,

1:43:43.160 --> 1:43:45.000
<v Speaker 1>there'd be plenty of people out there selling it.

1:43:45.520 --> 1:43:48.799
<v Speaker 2>And let us see. Ashion was an earlier history CIA

1:43:49.680 --> 1:43:54.320
<v Speaker 2>that I wrote eighteen years ago with Waiting for Tree

1:43:54.360 --> 1:43:57.680
<v Speaker 2>on the paperback bestseller was lived in the New York

1:43:57.720 --> 1:44:02.519
<v Speaker 2>Times Next week to Miracle. Uh. The epigraph for that

1:44:02.600 --> 1:44:06.280
<v Speaker 2>book is a quote from me tempteen satory play right

1:44:06.360 --> 1:44:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Joan Racine, which is there are no secrets the time

1:44:11.320 --> 1:44:12.400
<v Speaker 2>will not reveal.

1:44:13.200 --> 1:44:18.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there you go, Tim Winer. As you as you

1:44:18.680 --> 1:44:21.640
<v Speaker 1>can tell, I'd keep going and going and going, and

1:44:21.680 --> 1:44:24.080
<v Speaker 1>I think you would humor me, but at some point

1:44:24.800 --> 1:44:27.400
<v Speaker 1>I need to wrap it up. This is great. I

1:44:27.439 --> 1:44:31.360
<v Speaker 1>really recommend this book because it is, you know, the CIA,

1:44:31.479 --> 1:44:35.360
<v Speaker 1>what is its role? How much is political politics impacting it?

1:44:35.400 --> 1:44:39.280
<v Speaker 1>And how does it survive this moment? Right? I assume

1:44:39.320 --> 1:44:42.439
<v Speaker 1>already you may be working on your next book on

1:44:42.520 --> 1:44:44.400
<v Speaker 1>what the hell does the CIA look like? In four you.

1:44:45.520 --> 1:44:48.000
<v Speaker 2>My wife is giving strict orders that I don't start

1:44:48.000 --> 1:44:51.960
<v Speaker 2>the next book until next year, so I'm chilling.

1:44:52.360 --> 1:44:55.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, good luck trying to keep yourself away from observing

1:44:55.360 --> 1:44:57.880
<v Speaker 1>what we're observing these days. Hey, Tim, this was great.

1:44:57.880 --> 1:45:01.080
<v Speaker 1>Congrats by the way on the book. I mean, it's

1:45:00.040 --> 1:45:12.080
<v Speaker 1>so thank you for your patience on the audio with

1:45:12.200 --> 1:45:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Tim Winer. Trust me, the book is great.

1:45:14.680 --> 1:45:14.880
<v Speaker 2>You know.

1:45:15.000 --> 1:45:19.559
<v Speaker 1>Look, he really is methodical about this. This guy's a journalist. Journalist.

1:45:19.720 --> 1:45:22.559
<v Speaker 1>He's such a pro. He's been doing this for so long,

1:45:23.200 --> 1:45:26.439
<v Speaker 1>you know, I mean, it is. It's a few things

1:45:26.439 --> 1:45:28.240
<v Speaker 1>that I took away from him that are kind of interesting.

1:45:28.280 --> 1:45:32.920
<v Speaker 1>I thought his take that just remember the CIA is

1:45:32.960 --> 1:45:35.240
<v Speaker 1>always in arm of the whoever the president is, which

1:45:35.280 --> 1:45:39.440
<v Speaker 1>I thought was interesting that ultimately a whatever the CIA's

1:45:39.479 --> 1:45:42.280
<v Speaker 1>mandate almost always comes directly from their president, right, It's

1:45:42.320 --> 1:45:44.639
<v Speaker 1>like they bypass everybody else. It's the one thing thing.

1:45:44.800 --> 1:45:46.559
<v Speaker 1>So I thought that was interesting. And when you actually

1:45:46.560 --> 1:45:48.960
<v Speaker 1>look back, you do sort of see that pattern there

1:45:49.080 --> 1:45:54.160
<v Speaker 1>a little bit. But the other, of course, is what

1:45:54.200 --> 1:45:56.559
<v Speaker 1>he had to say about about Russia and about Putin,

1:45:56.600 --> 1:46:00.080
<v Speaker 1>and then the and then and then of our what

1:46:00.520 --> 1:46:07.360
<v Speaker 1>maybe what maybe our intelligence gaps with China. Anyway, I

1:46:07.360 --> 1:46:11.200
<v Speaker 1>I enjoyed the book. It's it's a it's a it's

1:46:11.200 --> 1:46:12.720
<v Speaker 1>a thick read. But I mean that in a in

1:46:12.760 --> 1:46:17.640
<v Speaker 1>a good way. But ay, you know, and it was

1:46:17.680 --> 1:46:19.599
<v Speaker 1>interesting that he came to the conclusion that I had,

1:46:19.600 --> 1:46:22.719
<v Speaker 1>which is that Bill Burns he is somebody. I'm sorry

1:46:22.760 --> 1:46:26.120
<v Speaker 1>that that Trump only views everything through his myopic lens,

1:46:26.120 --> 1:46:31.120
<v Speaker 1>because Bill Burns should still be, say, a director, you

1:46:31.160 --> 1:46:33.800
<v Speaker 1>have a guy who understands how Putin ticks better than

1:46:33.840 --> 1:46:36.760
<v Speaker 1>sometimes Putin does not. Many people are that way, and

1:46:36.800 --> 1:46:40.000
<v Speaker 1>we've sidelined this guy anyway. Seems to be a huge

1:46:40.000 --> 1:46:44.120
<v Speaker 1>missed opportunity. All Right, I've been ranting and raving about

1:46:44.160 --> 1:46:47.240
<v Speaker 1>my frustration about the Constitution and about about healthier so

1:46:47.280 --> 1:46:50.080
<v Speaker 1>I thought i'd do a little bit of of a

1:46:50.080 --> 1:46:54.559
<v Speaker 1>little bit of my own little sports talk here. Yes,

1:46:54.640 --> 1:46:57.840
<v Speaker 1>I've been watching way too much preseason football. But here's

1:46:57.880 --> 1:47:02.000
<v Speaker 1>the here's the only takeaway I have. And if there's

1:47:02.000 --> 1:47:04.599
<v Speaker 1>one theme with my two little sports nuggets today, it's

1:47:05.120 --> 1:47:08.880
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, I'm old and that is and I

1:47:09.080 --> 1:47:11.160
<v Speaker 1>am about to make some of you feel really old.

1:47:12.600 --> 1:47:15.400
<v Speaker 1>But I learned this watching the Ravens preseason game. I

1:47:15.400 --> 1:47:19.920
<v Speaker 1>think it was Ravens Colts that the Ravens are I

1:47:19.920 --> 1:47:22.280
<v Speaker 1>think a year or two away from have to have

1:47:22.360 --> 1:47:25.680
<v Speaker 1>been in Baltimore longer than the Colts were in Baltimore.

1:47:26.000 --> 1:47:30.320
<v Speaker 1>More importantly, the Colts have already been in Indianapolis longer

1:47:30.880 --> 1:47:35.120
<v Speaker 1>forty one years. I think it is going back to

1:47:35.200 --> 1:47:37.080
<v Speaker 1>it was an eighty two that they moved eighty three

1:47:37.240 --> 1:47:39.320
<v Speaker 1>something like that, right, it was eighty three, eighty four something.

1:47:39.640 --> 1:47:42.439
<v Speaker 1>They've been forty one, forty two years. They've now been

1:47:42.439 --> 1:47:46.680
<v Speaker 1>in Indianapolis longer than they were in Baltimore. So the

1:47:46.720 --> 1:47:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Indianapolis Colts are now older than the Baltimore Colts. Okay, see,

1:47:50.320 --> 1:47:52.400
<v Speaker 1>I told you i'd make you feel old if you're

1:47:52.760 --> 1:47:54.920
<v Speaker 1>someone of a certain age. And for those of you

1:47:54.960 --> 1:47:59.479
<v Speaker 1>that go, yeah, so what screw you? All right? Some

1:47:59.520 --> 1:48:04.960
<v Speaker 1>of us want mark time. The other is Mario Rivera. Jesus,

1:48:05.280 --> 1:48:09.439
<v Speaker 1>he lived my fear. I constantly I have stopped playing

1:48:09.479 --> 1:48:11.840
<v Speaker 1>pick up basketball. I miss pick up basketball. I've been

1:48:11.880 --> 1:48:14.120
<v Speaker 1>trying to talk myself back into it. Now that I

1:48:14.160 --> 1:48:17.960
<v Speaker 1>see Mario Rivera torp ripped his achilles playing the old

1:48:17.960 --> 1:48:21.040
<v Speaker 1>timers game shag and fly balls. He I think he

1:48:21.080 --> 1:48:22.680
<v Speaker 1>and I are about the same age. He might be

1:48:22.720 --> 1:48:26.400
<v Speaker 1>a year older or a year younger. Man, Mariano, you

1:48:26.520 --> 1:48:28.880
<v Speaker 1>just convinced me I'm out. I am just going to

1:48:28.920 --> 1:48:31.559
<v Speaker 1>stick to running. I am now going to do these

1:48:31.720 --> 1:48:36.519
<v Speaker 1>extra I'm a doctor. I messed with my doctor gave

1:48:36.560 --> 1:48:39.400
<v Speaker 1>me some how to strengthen your calf, to try to

1:48:39.439 --> 1:48:44.840
<v Speaker 1>strengthen to limit to the possibility that you that you

1:48:44.880 --> 1:48:49.080
<v Speaker 1>could tear your achilles. So let's just say that, Mario

1:48:49.080 --> 1:48:52.759
<v Speaker 1>and Rivera, you've just motivated me better than any any

1:48:53.120 --> 1:48:57.320
<v Speaker 1>trainer could motivate me to do those exercises. For sure,

1:48:58.080 --> 1:48:59.519
<v Speaker 1>I might as well give you a quick mats up.

1:48:59.520 --> 1:49:01.840
<v Speaker 1>They took two of three from the Giants, so it can't.

1:49:01.960 --> 1:49:06.880
<v Speaker 1>First of all, the Giants obviously not so good after

1:49:07.400 --> 1:49:10.680
<v Speaker 1>after overperforming in the first half for a while. You know,

1:49:10.840 --> 1:49:13.080
<v Speaker 1>it never looked like a team that was going to

1:49:13.120 --> 1:49:16.240
<v Speaker 1>be a real contender there. But I do imagine Buster Posey,

1:49:16.280 --> 1:49:19.280
<v Speaker 1>we'll turn those things around. But look, the biggest news

1:49:19.640 --> 1:49:22.759
<v Speaker 1>for US Nats fans was that cade Cavally looked great.

1:49:23.479 --> 1:49:25.639
<v Speaker 1>All right, this was a guy that has had two

1:49:25.680 --> 1:49:30.479
<v Speaker 1>Tommy John's think about that. That's amazing that he's back pitching.

1:49:30.880 --> 1:49:35.120
<v Speaker 1>It was a terrific outing thirteen outs, but I'll take it.

1:49:35.120 --> 1:49:38.200
<v Speaker 1>It was pretty good. Mackenzie gored a great outing against

1:49:38.240 --> 1:49:43.840
<v Speaker 1>Justin Verlander. I know verlandery Verlander anymore, but uh, you know,

1:49:43.920 --> 1:49:48.559
<v Speaker 1>he's it's still that's still a pretty good, pretty good, uh,

1:49:48.880 --> 1:49:50.920
<v Speaker 1>pretty good thing to say he did, which is to

1:49:51.920 --> 1:49:55.240
<v Speaker 1>get a win over Verlander, which Gore did. And it

1:49:55.280 --> 1:49:57.080
<v Speaker 1>was nice to see James Wood in the leadoff spot.

1:49:57.120 --> 1:50:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Let's see more of that, more of shaking that out.

1:50:00.080 --> 1:50:03.280
<v Speaker 1>But I will tell you it's still frustrating. I'm glad

1:50:03.320 --> 1:50:06.800
<v Speaker 1>to see Barry Zarugula took it, took it to the

1:50:06.920 --> 1:50:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Nats correctly. The Washington Post Sport section did a separate

1:50:10.360 --> 1:50:14.360
<v Speaker 1>piece about how Nats fans are frustrated with the ownership

1:50:14.360 --> 1:50:18.720
<v Speaker 1>and with the front office. Finally, some public heat is

1:50:18.760 --> 1:50:21.960
<v Speaker 1>being applied to the Learners, which needs to happen. They

1:50:21.960 --> 1:50:24.599
<v Speaker 1>are harassing me and other season ticket holders right now

1:50:24.640 --> 1:50:27.639
<v Speaker 1>to hurry up and renew, and I basically I keep

1:50:27.680 --> 1:50:31.639
<v Speaker 1>dodging the call right because I'm waiting for the Learners

1:50:31.680 --> 1:50:35.519
<v Speaker 1>to speak, and they still haven't spoken. Will you please

1:50:36.120 --> 1:50:39.320
<v Speaker 1>tell us the direction of this franchise. Are you trying

1:50:39.320 --> 1:50:42.120
<v Speaker 1>to contend next year or not? Are you going to

1:50:42.200 --> 1:50:45.679
<v Speaker 1>sell the team or not? Doing this? No man's land

1:50:45.840 --> 1:50:47.720
<v Speaker 1>is why you are getting people to say sell the

1:50:47.760 --> 1:50:50.360
<v Speaker 1>team now. I think the Learners have earned the right

1:50:50.960 --> 1:50:53.599
<v Speaker 1>to change direction here because they did bring us one winner,

1:50:55.000 --> 1:50:59.479
<v Speaker 1>but saying nothing, please, we already have enough people not

1:50:59.720 --> 1:51:05.559
<v Speaker 1>being leaders in Washington DC. Don't become just another another

1:51:06.040 --> 1:51:10.800
<v Speaker 1>member of the Washington DC community who refuses to lead.

1:51:11.960 --> 1:51:15.000
<v Speaker 1>We expect more from you, mister Lerner. All right, so

1:51:15.000 --> 1:51:17.120
<v Speaker 1>there's my little sports update, and with that, let's do

1:51:17.160 --> 1:51:20.679
<v Speaker 1>a few questions. Let's get the little ass Chuck in here.

1:51:20.960 --> 1:51:26.759
<v Speaker 1>Ask Chuck, all right, we got a little overseas questions

1:51:26.800 --> 1:51:28.840
<v Speaker 1>comes from the Netherlands. Heare, mister Todd. I'm a regular

1:51:28.840 --> 1:51:32.200
<v Speaker 1>listener to the podcast, truly appreciate how you unpack complex

1:51:32.240 --> 1:51:34.880
<v Speaker 1>political topics with such clarity. Thank you for saying that.

1:51:35.200 --> 1:51:37.240
<v Speaker 1>I've been wondering how did the US and EU, too

1:51:37.280 --> 1:51:40.200
<v Speaker 1>long standing allies drift so far apart diplomatically and politically,

1:51:40.439 --> 1:51:42.160
<v Speaker 1>and why does it feel like neither side knows how

1:51:42.200 --> 1:51:44.800
<v Speaker 1>to respond. Also, as a European who feels connected to

1:51:44.840 --> 1:51:47.400
<v Speaker 1>the US, I'm troubled by how much influence one individual,

1:51:47.479 --> 1:51:50.120
<v Speaker 1>be it a president or billionaire, can have globally. Have

1:51:50.200 --> 1:51:52.439
<v Speaker 1>we reached a point where democracy no longer feels like

1:51:52.479 --> 1:51:55.480
<v Speaker 1>it's truly in the hands of everyday people or regards

1:51:55.880 --> 1:52:01.559
<v Speaker 1>Randall Vanderval from Leyden, the Netherlands. Randall, I appreciate the

1:52:01.680 --> 1:52:05.960
<v Speaker 1>question on that. Well, Look, I think there's always been

1:52:07.160 --> 1:52:11.040
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of a political divide about Europe right

1:52:11.120 --> 1:52:13.680
<v Speaker 1>where the right has always been a little more eurosceptic

1:52:13.800 --> 1:52:16.280
<v Speaker 1>than the left. Part of it has to do with

1:52:18.200 --> 1:52:22.800
<v Speaker 1>the governance of many Western European countries democratic socialism in

1:52:23.200 --> 1:52:28.439
<v Speaker 1>the Nordic states in particular, but there's been some disagreements

1:52:28.160 --> 1:52:33.479
<v Speaker 1>on sort of some of those governing styles, and then

1:52:33.520 --> 1:52:36.120
<v Speaker 1>of course on some cultural things, and in some ways

1:52:36.280 --> 1:52:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Europe's a bit culturally, you know, more liberal or culturally

1:52:40.640 --> 1:52:43.080
<v Speaker 1>more progressive than the United States is and so I

1:52:43.080 --> 1:52:45.880
<v Speaker 1>think so, I think some of it is because we're,

1:52:47.080 --> 1:52:51.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, currently the the right is ascended on culture.

1:52:51.439 --> 1:52:56.839
<v Speaker 1>That culture is is in some ways an anti discurrent

1:52:57.080 --> 1:53:00.000
<v Speaker 1>set of your European leaders. I say current set because

1:53:00.120 --> 1:53:04.720
<v Speaker 1>there is also this connectivity between the American right and

1:53:04.760 --> 1:53:08.479
<v Speaker 1>the European right right the breaks of Tears Steve Bannon.

1:53:09.040 --> 1:53:11.800
<v Speaker 1>You've got the a f D party in Germany getting

1:53:11.800 --> 1:53:14.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot of love from like the seapack world. You've

1:53:14.000 --> 1:53:16.400
<v Speaker 1>got hungry right, you know. So there is there's also

1:53:16.439 --> 1:53:19.800
<v Speaker 1>been this sort of unity of the of the far

1:53:19.880 --> 1:53:23.280
<v Speaker 1>right parties both in the United States and Europe.

1:53:23.280 --> 1:53:23.639
<v Speaker 2>There.

1:53:24.560 --> 1:53:29.280
<v Speaker 1>But you know, it's interesting to me, as you're right,

1:53:29.360 --> 1:53:34.160
<v Speaker 1>I think in that we're you know, part of it

1:53:34.200 --> 1:53:36.719
<v Speaker 1>is that there's been some in the foreign policy community

1:53:36.760 --> 1:53:39.679
<v Speaker 1>who believe that Europe is a yesterday problem and Asia's

1:53:39.880 --> 1:53:43.040
<v Speaker 1>today and tomorrow problem. So part of it is there's

1:53:43.200 --> 1:53:47.680
<v Speaker 1>some in the national security form policy space that's not

1:53:47.800 --> 1:53:52.879
<v Speaker 1>hard left or hard right, that simply is less focused

1:53:52.920 --> 1:53:56.120
<v Speaker 1>on Europe and believes we should pivot to Asia, pivot

1:53:56.160 --> 1:53:59.720
<v Speaker 1>to the Pacific right. That was Obama's last half of

1:53:59.720 --> 1:54:04.320
<v Speaker 1>his lifelast term was the pivot Asia because everything was

1:54:04.400 --> 1:54:06.640
<v Speaker 1>China right when everything was the Cold War, Europe was

1:54:06.680 --> 1:54:09.320
<v Speaker 1>everything without the Cold War. Now you would think that

1:54:09.400 --> 1:54:12.080
<v Speaker 1>Russia's aggression would have brought the EU in the United

1:54:12.080 --> 1:54:16.040
<v Speaker 1>States together, and in some ways it has, right, Right,

1:54:16.120 --> 1:54:19.960
<v Speaker 1>NATO's never been better funded, NATO's never been more euro

1:54:20.200 --> 1:54:22.960
<v Speaker 1>you know. I mean the addition of Sweden and Finland

1:54:22.960 --> 1:54:26.000
<v Speaker 1>have been huge, right. I mean, if if we ever

1:54:26.080 --> 1:54:27.720
<v Speaker 1>have to go to war with Russia, we're going to

1:54:27.760 --> 1:54:31.639
<v Speaker 1>crush them. It's not going to be that close. I mean,

1:54:31.720 --> 1:54:38.080
<v Speaker 1>we have the much more durable collective security than they do.

1:54:38.880 --> 1:54:43.560
<v Speaker 1>So I think some of it is just simply attention

1:54:43.680 --> 1:54:46.480
<v Speaker 1>to the Pacific. So that so there's a little bit

1:54:46.480 --> 1:54:49.839
<v Speaker 1>of atrophy in the relationship. Some is what I described earlier,

1:54:49.920 --> 1:54:53.520
<v Speaker 1>sort of the right wing skepticism of the sort of

1:54:54.280 --> 1:54:58.440
<v Speaker 1>democratic small d democratic socialism, that sort of you know, mindset,

1:55:01.960 --> 1:55:04.400
<v Speaker 1>you know. And and then of course I think Europe

1:55:04.400 --> 1:55:08.120
<v Speaker 1>in general is very anti trumpa, right, So then that

1:55:08.200 --> 1:55:13.360
<v Speaker 1>makes Europe seeing anti Republican these days. So and it's

1:55:13.360 --> 1:55:15.200
<v Speaker 1>the Republicans that are in charge. So you put all

1:55:15.240 --> 1:55:17.880
<v Speaker 1>those ingredients together in it, and that's what you have.

1:55:20.960 --> 1:55:23.680
<v Speaker 1>So look in some ways this could be the best

1:55:23.680 --> 1:55:26.320
<v Speaker 1>thing to happen to the EU, that they have to

1:55:26.600 --> 1:55:30.120
<v Speaker 1>be prepared to be more independent, less reliant in the

1:55:30.200 --> 1:55:33.240
<v Speaker 1>United States. That doesn't mean the United States isn't the

1:55:33.240 --> 1:55:35.600
<v Speaker 1>single most important ally to the to the EU and

1:55:35.680 --> 1:55:41.400
<v Speaker 1>EU nations, but that doesn't. But you've got to but

1:55:41.440 --> 1:55:43.280
<v Speaker 1>you've got to assume that there are going to be

1:55:43.320 --> 1:55:48.560
<v Speaker 1>times when there's a more hostile government. So so in

1:55:48.600 --> 1:55:51.120
<v Speaker 1>that sense, look, I think and I think you're starting

1:55:51.160 --> 1:55:56.840
<v Speaker 1>to see more European leaders, well they're not happy about it,

1:55:56.960 --> 1:56:00.680
<v Speaker 1>embracing the reality that that's what that's what has to happen.

1:56:02.600 --> 1:56:06.880
<v Speaker 1>But let's just say the entire relationship between Europe and

1:56:06.920 --> 1:56:11.839
<v Speaker 1>the United States may transform again depending on whether Trump

1:56:11.880 --> 1:56:14.440
<v Speaker 1>gives Pootin everything he wants at this summit later this week.

1:56:14.560 --> 1:56:18.560
<v Speaker 1>So let's just say the relationship is still. The irony

1:56:18.640 --> 1:56:23.640
<v Speaker 1>is that both continents are dealing with a migrant crisis,

1:56:24.880 --> 1:56:27.000
<v Speaker 1>and the migrant crisis is caused by the same issue,

1:56:27.120 --> 1:56:30.840
<v Speaker 1>right displacement due to lack of opportunity, some of its

1:56:30.840 --> 1:56:35.240
<v Speaker 1>climate change inspired. What's happening right in Central America, what's

1:56:35.240 --> 1:56:39.640
<v Speaker 1>happening in North Africa. And I think that that migration

1:56:39.840 --> 1:56:44.440
<v Speaker 1>is really stirred a lot of populist politics and a

1:56:44.440 --> 1:56:49.480
<v Speaker 1>lot of nationalist politics, both in Europe and in the

1:56:49.560 --> 1:56:51.080
<v Speaker 1>United States. So in that sense, we have a lot

1:56:51.120 --> 1:56:55.680
<v Speaker 1>in common on that front. Not sure if I answered

1:56:55.680 --> 1:56:59.120
<v Speaker 1>the question the way that as thoroughly you're asking, you know,

1:56:59.160 --> 1:57:01.960
<v Speaker 1>why it's been so much you know, just sort of

1:57:01.960 --> 1:57:07.080
<v Speaker 1>the future of democracy. Look, I think, you know, sometimes

1:57:07.080 --> 1:57:11.240
<v Speaker 1>I think we've had we had it so good and

1:57:11.280 --> 1:57:14.600
<v Speaker 1>so easy for so long, we forget that sometimes citizenship

1:57:14.680 --> 1:57:18.000
<v Speaker 1>demands work and keeping a democracy healthy, you got to

1:57:18.000 --> 1:57:19.880
<v Speaker 1>attend to the democracy garden a little bit, and we

1:57:19.920 --> 1:57:22.720
<v Speaker 1>haven't tended to that garden. You've been hearing me come

1:57:22.800 --> 1:57:26.320
<v Speaker 1>up with a lot of ideas about how to essentially

1:57:26.360 --> 1:57:29.280
<v Speaker 1>reanimate the democracy here, and I think my guess is

1:57:29.280 --> 1:57:32.440
<v Speaker 1>we're not alone. I think it needs to be reanimated

1:57:32.480 --> 1:57:35.720
<v Speaker 1>in a lot of Western societies. Next question comes from

1:57:35.800 --> 1:57:38.680
<v Speaker 1>Judith w and she asks, I've just finished listening to

1:57:38.720 --> 1:57:41.440
<v Speaker 1>your introduction to the episode that dropped August six, and

1:57:41.440 --> 1:57:43.520
<v Speaker 1>there are two things that I want to ask. One,

1:57:43.840 --> 1:57:45.440
<v Speaker 1>how come it has taken the media so long to

1:57:45.440 --> 1:57:48.600
<v Speaker 1>see Trump's mental decline? Too? It was evident long before

1:57:48.600 --> 1:57:51.160
<v Speaker 1>Biden left the race too. The people that are suggesting

1:57:51.160 --> 1:57:53.480
<v Speaker 1>that blue states also redistrict would agree with you that

1:57:53.520 --> 1:57:55.640
<v Speaker 1>redistricting to gain seats is not a good thing. But

1:57:55.680 --> 1:57:57.520
<v Speaker 1>what is it that you think the Democrats should do

1:57:57.560 --> 1:58:00.480
<v Speaker 1>to counteract the redistrict in Texas and other Republicans states?

1:58:00.640 --> 1:58:03.160
<v Speaker 1>This seems like just one more issue than in the

1:58:03.160 --> 1:58:05.760
<v Speaker 1>long run needs to be resolved updating the constitution. But

1:58:05.800 --> 1:58:07.960
<v Speaker 1>in the short term Democrats don't appear to have much

1:58:08.000 --> 1:58:13.760
<v Speaker 1>of a choice. Thanks. Look, obviously I get your answer

1:58:13.840 --> 1:58:16.320
<v Speaker 1>on the on the first part on the mental stuff,

1:58:16.520 --> 1:58:18.720
<v Speaker 1>I think with Trump, Trump's always been a little weird,

1:58:18.920 --> 1:58:22.840
<v Speaker 1>and so I think in fairness, you're not sure whether

1:58:23.360 --> 1:58:26.600
<v Speaker 1>you know whether this is same old Trump or whether

1:58:26.640 --> 1:58:28.600
<v Speaker 1>Trump is losing it a little bit now. I think

1:58:28.640 --> 1:58:31.520
<v Speaker 1>you're starting to see some signs that he's sunsetting a

1:58:31.560 --> 1:58:34.920
<v Speaker 1>bit in the evening, right, He doesn't look he's not

1:58:35.000 --> 1:58:39.480
<v Speaker 1>traveled the country at all. He travels the country very rarely. Now,

1:58:40.000 --> 1:58:41.600
<v Speaker 1>when was the last time he saw him do a rally,

1:58:41.680 --> 1:58:44.920
<v Speaker 1>doesn't do them very often. Doesn't like leaving Washington, DC much,

1:58:45.360 --> 1:58:49.000
<v Speaker 1>doesn't like leaving the New Marlago patio that he put

1:58:49.040 --> 1:58:53.440
<v Speaker 1>into the Rose Garden, there, and so I think some

1:58:53.560 --> 1:58:55.800
<v Speaker 1>of that is just, you know, like anybody, the older

1:58:55.800 --> 1:58:59.360
<v Speaker 1>you get, the less you want to leave your own abode.

1:58:59.720 --> 1:59:02.760
<v Speaker 1>And he's behaving that way, and he's certainly behaving put

1:59:02.800 --> 1:59:04.560
<v Speaker 1>it this way, he is behaving like somebody like a

1:59:04.600 --> 1:59:06.640
<v Speaker 1>president of a second term who's burned out on traveling

1:59:06.640 --> 1:59:08.600
<v Speaker 1>the country because he hasn't done it. And I think

1:59:08.640 --> 1:59:11.720
<v Speaker 1>that's politically a huge problem for Republicans because he's not

1:59:11.920 --> 1:59:16.120
<v Speaker 1>selling his agenda at all. He's dictating his agenda, but

1:59:16.160 --> 1:59:19.160
<v Speaker 1>he's not selling it. He's not traveling the country, he's

1:59:19.200 --> 1:59:21.160
<v Speaker 1>not trying to sell it. And I think part of

1:59:21.160 --> 1:59:25.600
<v Speaker 1>that is is that he's just getting too old to

1:59:25.600 --> 1:59:28.880
<v Speaker 1>do the job on We're starting to see certain signs

1:59:28.880 --> 1:59:31.680
<v Speaker 1>in certain places that that's the case. He's certainly getting

1:59:31.680 --> 1:59:33.879
<v Speaker 1>a lot more bad information than he ever has before.

1:59:34.120 --> 1:59:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Whether that is intentional that he's getting this bad information

1:59:38.160 --> 1:59:42.000
<v Speaker 1>or he's just not as as as well read as

1:59:42.000 --> 1:59:46.080
<v Speaker 1>he once was is unclear. Look, you ask, what should

1:59:46.080 --> 1:59:48.320
<v Speaker 1>the Democrats do. Run a campaign in Texas, Go run

1:59:48.360 --> 1:59:51.080
<v Speaker 1>a campaign in Florida, Go build a party, Go push

1:59:51.120 --> 1:59:53.480
<v Speaker 1>back on Greg Abbott, Go push back on Rondo Santis,

1:59:53.480 --> 1:59:58.200
<v Speaker 1>Go push back. Look, I think what the Democrats are

1:59:58.240 --> 1:59:59.800
<v Speaker 1>doing in the state of Texas, you do everything you

1:59:59.800 --> 2:00:07.520
<v Speaker 1>can and you're elected officials. But I so but but

2:00:07.600 --> 2:00:11.960
<v Speaker 1>I think sort of going and hoping. Here's my problem

2:00:11.960 --> 2:00:15.480
<v Speaker 1>with it, right, which is, if you think it's unfair

2:00:15.520 --> 2:00:18.800
<v Speaker 1>what Texas is doing, then why I go to your

2:00:18.840 --> 2:00:24.200
<v Speaker 1>own home state and intentionally make it unfair to the

2:00:24.200 --> 2:00:26.880
<v Speaker 1>minority community in your state, to the minority of voters

2:00:26.880 --> 2:00:31.000
<v Speaker 1>in your state who don't who aren't blue. There's a

2:00:31.040 --> 2:00:33.120
<v Speaker 1>reason for the expression too wrongs don't make a RNY

2:00:34.280 --> 2:00:36.840
<v Speaker 1>And this is to me, I don't know. I mean,

2:00:36.880 --> 2:00:41.480
<v Speaker 1>this is the screams too wrongs don't make right. My

2:00:41.600 --> 2:00:45.240
<v Speaker 1>frustration is they The hard thing to do is to

2:00:45.680 --> 2:00:48.200
<v Speaker 1>go figure out how to run a tougher campaign in

2:00:48.240 --> 2:00:50.680
<v Speaker 1>Texas than in Florida and make them pay a price

2:00:50.720 --> 2:00:53.480
<v Speaker 1>at the ballot box. That's the hard thing to do.

2:00:53.560 --> 2:00:55.480
<v Speaker 1>The easy thing to do is to change the rules

2:00:55.800 --> 2:01:01.640
<v Speaker 1>somewhere where things are more supportive. Final question comes from

2:01:01.680 --> 2:01:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Greg w. Hey check love the new show and format.

2:01:05.000 --> 2:01:07.480
<v Speaker 1>The longer form has made you my walking podcast. I

2:01:07.480 --> 2:01:12.280
<v Speaker 1>appreciate that one of my favorite ways that somebody was

2:01:12.320 --> 2:01:17.520
<v Speaker 1>marketing at one of my favorite cannabis shops was marketing

2:01:17.760 --> 2:01:20.240
<v Speaker 1>little pre roles as dog walkers now, which I thought

2:01:20.280 --> 2:01:23.200
<v Speaker 1>was hilarious. I don't so, I don't care. I think

2:01:23.200 --> 2:01:24.920
<v Speaker 1>a walking I don't want to be just a dog

2:01:24.960 --> 2:01:28.400
<v Speaker 1>walking podcast is shorter. I think a long walk podcast.

2:01:28.440 --> 2:01:35.160
<v Speaker 1>I'll take that anyway. He asked. What amazes me is

2:01:35.240 --> 2:01:37.480
<v Speaker 1>when you bring on another political walk like yourself, and

2:01:37.520 --> 2:01:39.720
<v Speaker 1>you can discuss an individual running into district only to

2:01:39.800 --> 2:01:41.800
<v Speaker 1>end up talking about the history of that district in

2:01:41.880 --> 2:01:44.480
<v Speaker 1>terms of voting or events that change how the district votes,

2:01:44.920 --> 2:01:47.120
<v Speaker 1>how are What do you use to find out that information?

2:01:47.600 --> 2:01:49.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm betting some of it is just living in that world.

2:01:49.760 --> 2:01:52.320
<v Speaker 1>But for newcomers, what are some information sources we can

2:01:52.360 --> 2:01:54.880
<v Speaker 1>look at? Well, I'll tell you what I did when

2:01:54.920 --> 2:01:57.200
<v Speaker 1>I was younger to learn. I mean, I was obsessed

2:01:57.280 --> 2:02:01.560
<v Speaker 1>with understanding every congressional district. So the Almanac of American Politics.

2:02:01.560 --> 2:02:03.160
<v Speaker 1>And it's funny you're bringing this up. I'm going to

2:02:03.360 --> 2:02:05.760
<v Speaker 1>be interviewing my friend Charlie Cook this week. He's written

2:02:05.760 --> 2:02:09.520
<v Speaker 1>the big introduction to them, The Almenic of American Politics,

2:02:09.880 --> 2:02:12.360
<v Speaker 1>which is published by my old employer in the National Journal.

2:02:12.640 --> 2:02:16.200
<v Speaker 1>It was founded by Michael Barone at Harvard in nineteen

2:02:16.240 --> 2:02:22.360
<v Speaker 1>seventy two with a gentleman named Grant Ujifusa. And it

2:02:22.400 --> 2:02:25.879
<v Speaker 1>is it is. It is called the Almanac of American Politics.

2:02:25.920 --> 2:02:28.520
<v Speaker 1>But what it really is is it's a profiles all

2:02:28.520 --> 2:02:33.840
<v Speaker 1>foreign and thirty five districts, all fifty states, and then

2:02:33.920 --> 2:02:37.600
<v Speaker 1>it has profiles of every governor and every US Senator.

2:02:38.600 --> 2:02:41.440
<v Speaker 1>So you have one hundred and fifty of those profiles,

2:02:41.440 --> 2:02:44.480
<v Speaker 1>plus four and thirty five House members. It's five hundred

2:02:44.480 --> 2:02:48.200
<v Speaker 1>and eighty five profiles. And the profiles of the congressional

2:02:48.240 --> 2:02:50.840
<v Speaker 1>districts are one half about the member and one half

2:02:50.920 --> 2:02:56.000
<v Speaker 1>about the district. Now, what did a dork like me do? Well,

2:02:56.080 --> 2:02:59.240
<v Speaker 1>so I started. You know, my first almanac, working almanac

2:02:59.400 --> 2:03:02.280
<v Speaker 1>was was for the ninety for the ninety two cycle,

2:03:02.880 --> 2:03:05.680
<v Speaker 1>which so it was nineteen ninety two almanac is always

2:03:06.320 --> 2:03:08.680
<v Speaker 1>up to date through the ninety elections. The ninety four

2:03:08.720 --> 2:03:10.680
<v Speaker 1>almanac is up to date through the ninety two elections,

2:03:10.680 --> 2:03:15.120
<v Speaker 1>and so on and so on. Well, I had to

2:03:15.120 --> 2:03:18.080
<v Speaker 1>make sure I had every single cop every single edition,

2:03:18.200 --> 2:03:20.560
<v Speaker 1>so I have every edition going back to seventy two.

2:03:21.560 --> 2:03:24.280
<v Speaker 1>By the way, our friends in Congressional Quarterly have have

2:03:24.400 --> 2:03:28.600
<v Speaker 1>their theirs. It's called politics in America. It's a little thicker. Frankly,

2:03:28.680 --> 2:03:31.360
<v Speaker 1>I think a little drier some of the profiles that

2:03:31.440 --> 2:03:35.360
<v Speaker 1>think national journals. I think the Almanac is a little

2:03:35.880 --> 2:03:39.240
<v Speaker 1>a little more readable all the informations there in politics

2:03:39.280 --> 2:03:42.040
<v Speaker 1>in America, don't get me wrong. And it's good info

2:03:42.560 --> 2:03:45.880
<v Speaker 1>in some ways, sometimes more thorough in some data there

2:03:46.160 --> 2:03:50.400
<v Speaker 1>than than than the Almanac has. And I've that for

2:03:50.480 --> 2:03:54.200
<v Speaker 1>previous and what I've done over the years, and what

2:03:54.240 --> 2:03:56.920
<v Speaker 1>I did early on is I read every you know,

2:03:57.000 --> 2:04:00.720
<v Speaker 1>anytime I would focus on a congressional I would go

2:04:00.760 --> 2:04:05.640
<v Speaker 1>back and read what the read the various Almanac bios

2:04:06.400 --> 2:04:12.680
<v Speaker 1>from previous editions, and it's look, it was fun. I

2:04:12.760 --> 2:04:15.600
<v Speaker 1>used to say, you could see Michael Barone's evolving politics, right.

2:04:15.640 --> 2:04:18.280
<v Speaker 1>Michael Barone was a big liberal in seventy two, fairly

2:04:18.320 --> 2:04:21.160
<v Speaker 1>conservative these days. And I used to say, if you

2:04:21.400 --> 2:04:26.080
<v Speaker 1>just read the Henry Waxman profiles, the ones he wrote

2:04:26.120 --> 2:04:31.120
<v Speaker 1>in the eighties were this liberal do gooder champion would

2:04:31.160 --> 2:04:34.320
<v Speaker 1>take it to government every now and then, versus the

2:04:34.400 --> 2:04:38.680
<v Speaker 1>one he'd write about in the nineties and the odds,

2:04:38.960 --> 2:04:42.920
<v Speaker 1>who he thought was a limousine liberal, and that sort

2:04:42.960 --> 2:04:45.800
<v Speaker 1>of mindset. But you could, you know. I used to

2:04:45.880 --> 2:04:48.760
<v Speaker 1>say you could see you could read Michael Barone's evolution

2:04:49.480 --> 2:04:53.480
<v Speaker 1>through that, but he you know, all kidding aside. It

2:04:53.520 --> 2:04:55.280
<v Speaker 1>would be in the profiles of the individuals that you

2:04:55.280 --> 2:04:57.920
<v Speaker 1>would sort of you could you could hear. I know

2:04:58.000 --> 2:04:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Michael well enough that I could see some of his

2:04:59.680 --> 2:05:04.360
<v Speaker 1>police evolutions, if you will. But it's the profiles of

2:05:04.400 --> 2:05:09.000
<v Speaker 1>the district itself, finding about its history of voting and industry.

2:05:09.520 --> 2:05:14.640
<v Speaker 1>It's second enough, right. The model that Barone created is terrific.

2:05:14.800 --> 2:05:18.120
<v Speaker 1>National Journal has kept that model and I don't think

2:05:18.120 --> 2:05:21.480
<v Speaker 1>there's anything like it, and the new edition's coming out

2:05:21.840 --> 2:05:24.800
<v Speaker 1>it is. And I always say this, Almanacs are more

2:05:24.880 --> 2:05:27.800
<v Speaker 1>useful the older they are, you know, because the most

2:05:27.800 --> 2:05:30.960
<v Speaker 1>recent stuff is usually front of mine. Anyway, I have

2:05:31.080 --> 2:05:33.360
<v Speaker 1>most of that, but as it gets older, you're really

2:05:33.400 --> 2:05:37.600
<v Speaker 1>thankful to have it. So I don't work for them.

2:05:37.640 --> 2:05:41.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't get any money from them anymore. There was

2:05:41.320 --> 2:05:44.880
<v Speaker 1>a time I really wanted that my real ambition, before

2:05:44.880 --> 2:05:46.880
<v Speaker 1>there was ever a meet to press, I wanted to

2:05:46.880 --> 2:05:51.360
<v Speaker 1>be co author the Almanac of American Politics. So that's

2:05:51.360 --> 2:05:55.720
<v Speaker 1>how much I love the reference book. I think it's

2:05:56.040 --> 2:05:59.720
<v Speaker 1>the single most important reference book in politics. So but

2:05:59.800 --> 2:06:01.840
<v Speaker 1>you need to get every single edition comes out every

2:06:01.840 --> 2:06:03.760
<v Speaker 1>two years, and it's been coming out every two years

2:06:04.000 --> 2:06:06.560
<v Speaker 1>since nineteen seventy two. And I will tell you, just

2:06:06.640 --> 2:06:10.600
<v Speaker 1>like in card collecting, there's a short print the seventy

2:06:10.760 --> 2:06:15.280
<v Speaker 1>six edition, which is the Watergate elections through seventy four.

2:06:15.880 --> 2:06:20.080
<v Speaker 1>It's the short print. For whatever reason, they didn't have

2:06:20.200 --> 2:06:24.080
<v Speaker 1>that many, they didn't print as many of that edition.

2:06:25.120 --> 2:06:27.080
<v Speaker 1>I think I spent five hundred dollars at a used

2:06:27.080 --> 2:06:30.120
<v Speaker 1>bookstore to get my copy of my seventy six almanac,

2:06:30.360 --> 2:06:33.080
<v Speaker 1>because by the way around around Washington, when I was

2:06:33.120 --> 2:06:37.440
<v Speaker 1>first trying to make get every single edition, I had everything,

2:06:37.520 --> 2:06:39.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, going back to eighty two because National Journal

2:06:40.080 --> 2:06:42.600
<v Speaker 1>had older copies, but they didn't take over publishing until

2:06:42.640 --> 2:06:46.240
<v Speaker 1>eighty two, so it was the previous those seventy two, four,

2:06:46.360 --> 2:06:48.760
<v Speaker 1>seventy six, seventy eight, and eighty I was trying to

2:06:48.760 --> 2:06:52.000
<v Speaker 1>get and the last one was seventy six. But I

2:06:52.040 --> 2:06:54.760
<v Speaker 1>can't tell you how many times I'd go to a

2:06:54.840 --> 2:06:56.760
<v Speaker 1>used bookstore they say, Okay, we'll put your name on

2:06:56.760 --> 2:06:58.800
<v Speaker 1>a list, but you know you're below Charlie Cook. And

2:06:58.840 --> 2:07:01.120
<v Speaker 1>I was like God damn it. Charlie Cook was also

2:07:01.160 --> 2:07:02.760
<v Speaker 1>trying to do the same thing back in the day.

2:07:03.720 --> 2:07:05.320
<v Speaker 1>But like I said, Charlie's gonna be on the show

2:07:05.360 --> 2:07:07.200
<v Speaker 1>soon and we're going to be giving a lot more

2:07:07.240 --> 2:07:10.920
<v Speaker 1>love to the Almanac after that. All right, So enough

2:07:10.960 --> 2:07:13.680
<v Speaker 1>of me promoting that. I do want to promote my

2:07:13.680 --> 2:07:15.600
<v Speaker 1>news for you. Interview with doctor Francis Collins. You want

2:07:15.600 --> 2:07:19.760
<v Speaker 1>to understand what mRNA vaccines are, why this technology is

2:07:19.760 --> 2:07:25.840
<v Speaker 1>so important, and how incredibly just how it's a dereliction

2:07:25.880 --> 2:07:29.600
<v Speaker 1>of duty for the future of healthcare, for what Kennedy did.

2:07:30.120 --> 2:07:33.800
<v Speaker 1>You'd also got to check out my blues man, Francis Collins,

2:07:33.840 --> 2:07:37.520
<v Speaker 1>because he's got the blues. He's got the blues, but

2:07:37.600 --> 2:07:39.680
<v Speaker 1>he also has the blues and you could feel it

2:07:39.960 --> 2:07:42.280
<v Speaker 1>and hear it in his music. It's a little different.

2:07:42.920 --> 2:07:45.000
<v Speaker 1>But I think doctor Collins is just one of the

2:07:45.040 --> 2:07:47.720
<v Speaker 1>great treasures of the United States, one of the great

2:07:47.720 --> 2:07:52.920
<v Speaker 1>treasures of America, and I hope you take a look

2:07:52.960 --> 2:07:56.800
<v Speaker 1>and take a listen. So with that, I appreciate you listening.

2:07:57.280 --> 2:08:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for keeping the faith with me. And until we

2:08:01.600 --> 2:08:02.160
<v Speaker 1>upload again,