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Speaker 1: Right, more reaction to the Chargers making Brandon Staley the

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Speaker 1: seventeenth head coach en franchise history. I'm here with the athletics,

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Speaker 1: Robert May's and Robert first and foremost. If folks haven't

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Speaker 1: read his piece on the athletic I think it was

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Speaker 1: December thirtieth, go search it to this interview. Right, was

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Speaker 1: it December thirtieth? It was the day before and year

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Speaker 1: and ze if Yeah, we would trying to get it

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Speaker 1: out of that Wednesday so people would actually read it.

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Speaker 1: The constant struggle around the holidays. That's right. We'll go

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Speaker 1: read it after we talk here. Robert. I can't thank

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Speaker 1: you for your time, man, I want to get your

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Speaker 1: reaction to the Chargers hiring Staley, being that you were

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Speaker 1: with him for quite some time to put that piece together.

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Speaker 1: I totally understand why you'd want to. You know, I

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Speaker 1: think that right now, at the current model of the NFL,

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Speaker 1: at how hard it is sustained success on defense, and

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Speaker 1: how the safe path the relevancy and having a good

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Speaker 1: year in and year out is typically offense. It is

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Speaker 1: hard for me to justify highing a defensive minded head coach.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's a higher bar to clear to

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Speaker 1: be a good team every single year, year in a

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Speaker 1: year out. But after talking to him and thinking about him,

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Speaker 1: and him as a teacher or a communicator, as a

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Speaker 1: football thinker, all of these things, he's the guy that

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Speaker 1: I would bet out of the defensive coach just because

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Speaker 1: of the conceptual ways that he built that Rams defense

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Speaker 1: and how that defense was almost an expression of his

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Speaker 1: value system around football and the way that he thinks

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Speaker 1: about the sport. You know, they were doing things schemat

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Speaker 1: This isn't just a defensive coordinator who has a ton

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Speaker 1: of good talent who's using guys in familiar ways and

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Speaker 1: writing that talent to success. Obviously the Rams hadj and

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Speaker 1: Ramsey and Aaron Donald, but some of the stuff that

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Speaker 1: they were doing schematically was on the edges. Was really

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Speaker 1: pushing further into some of these things than any other

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Speaker 1: defensive coordinator in the NFL. So I think a guy

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Speaker 1: that is thinking on the cutting edge and as progressive

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Speaker 1: as Brandon Stalely is is the one area where I

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Speaker 1: would be, like, you know what, I'd be willing to

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Speaker 1: take a swing on a defensive coordinator or a defensive

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Speaker 1: coach here just because I think he sees this stuff

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Speaker 1: a little bit differently. Yeah, in the piece, he talked

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Speaker 1: about his defensive philosophy and creating a numbers advantage, and

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Speaker 1: he and McVay seemed to just click right off the bat,

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Speaker 1: and Hey, Aaron Donald, Jalen Ramsey. Of course, you need

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Speaker 1: you need good players to have successful unit. But when

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Speaker 1: you look at the individual pieces that the Chargers have

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Speaker 1: on defense, with you know, everyone hoping on Derwin James

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Speaker 1: coming back for a healthy season in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 1: Joey Bosa, Drew Trank, Will Kenneth Murray. The individual pieces

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Speaker 1: are in place for Staley to really implement his philosophy. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and I think that the argument that he was a

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Speaker 1: product or had relied so heavily on Jalen Ramsey or

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Speaker 1: Aaron Donald. You know, I understand that every team doesn't

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Speaker 1: have an Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey, but a lot

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Speaker 1: of teams have at least one or two elite defensive players,

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Speaker 1: and the Chargers have several elite defensive players. And I

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Speaker 1: think the most encouraging thing about Brandon Staley in his history,

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Speaker 1: if you look back to the defenses we saw in

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Speaker 1: Chicago when he was with VIC Fangio. The underlying principles

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Speaker 1: of those defenses are similar to the one that he

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Speaker 1: ran with the Rams, but it's still a little bit

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Speaker 1: different because you filter those principles through your personnel. So

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Speaker 1: his ability to kind of take these one or two

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Speaker 1: or three kind of queens on the chessboard that he

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Speaker 1: has and understand the exact right ways to deploy them,

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Speaker 1: I think is an argument in his favor and one

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Speaker 1: that should get Chargers fans excited because they have those guys.

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Speaker 1: You know, he didn't have a Derwin James on the Rams.

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Speaker 1: We'll see what he ends up doing with Irwin James

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Speaker 1: in those moments. He didn't have an edge rusher like

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Speaker 1: Joey Boso. So I think that the defense may look

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Speaker 1: different in some ways to the one that you saw

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Speaker 1: with the Rams, simply because his personnel is different. And

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Speaker 1: I think that that speaks to a good coach and

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Speaker 1: somebody that understands how to properly unlock his talent. Well,

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Speaker 1: we talk about his rise to Robert. His first NFL

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Speaker 1: job was in twenty seventeen as a position coach with

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Speaker 1: the Bears, obviously learning under Vic Fangio, but to see

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Speaker 1: for twenty seventeen, you go from a position coach to

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Speaker 1: running an NFL franchise. At twenty twenty one, is the

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Speaker 1: head coach with Justin Herbert as your quarterback. In your

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Speaker 1: conversations with Brandon, what stood out to you that led

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Speaker 1: you to believe that, hey, this could be a guy

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Speaker 1: who could take on a head coach responsibilities sooner than later.

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Speaker 1: He's an excellent communicator, and I think that that is

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Speaker 1: the number one quality you need in any sort of coach.

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Speaker 1: You know, when people were thinking about Sean McVay and

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Speaker 1: what they were chasing in Sean mcvayh as the rest

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Speaker 1: of the league was trying to find their next version

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Speaker 1: of him, I think that the things they took away

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Speaker 1: from what Sean McVay is as a coach were young,

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Speaker 1: offensive minded, and that was it. That was the template.

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Speaker 1: But Sean mcvay's greatest strength isn't that he's this exs

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Speaker 1: and OS savant. It's that he's a very good communicator

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Speaker 1: who is able to command a room and also listen

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Speaker 1: to his players, inject to their feedback and kind of

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Speaker 1: have that sort of dialogue. And even in Brandon's Daley

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Speaker 1: explaining some of this stuff to me, it was obvious

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Speaker 1: what sort of communicator that he is. And I think

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Speaker 1: that that really is what stuck out to me. Not man,

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Speaker 1: this guy is some genius and he just sees all

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Speaker 1: of this stuff as this galaxy brain coach. It was

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Speaker 1: the fact that he could lay it bear for me

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Speaker 1: and as to why they were doing it. That part

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Speaker 1: of it, and also just this adherence to ideas that

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Speaker 1: you typically wouldn't hear from defensive coaches in the NFL

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Speaker 1: if you talked to most defensive coaches, and I think

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Speaker 1: even more than offense, defense of leadership within the league

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Speaker 1: is kind of made up of these establishment coaches. You know,

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Speaker 1: after the hirings of Gus Bradley and Dan Quinn in

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Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks here, I want to say

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Speaker 1: that about half of the defensive coordinators in the NFL

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Speaker 1: have been former head coaches. So there really is this

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Speaker 1: kind of recycling pipeline that goes out and most those guys,

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Speaker 1: if you were to talk to them and you were

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Speaker 1: to say, all right, what's the most important thing that

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Speaker 1: you have to do first with your defense? It's the

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Speaker 1: first consideration when you're setting up, they would say stop

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Speaker 1: the run. Every single one of them. Would they would say,

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Speaker 1: all right, we need to set our front to make

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Speaker 1: sure that we're stopping the run. Well, just think about

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Speaker 1: that on its face, right, in football, the best offenses

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Speaker 1: are the teams that can throw the ball most effectively.

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Speaker 1: The quarterback is the most important player on the field.

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Speaker 1: So why would you stop the run first? Wouldn't you

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Speaker 1: rather structure your defense as such to take away explosive

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Speaker 1: plays in the passing game? And that's what he's done,

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Speaker 1: and not only doing it, but able to kind of

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Speaker 1: communicate that value system in an open and honest way.

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Speaker 1: You know, he told me that it takes a lot

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Speaker 1: of four to five yard runs to add up to

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Speaker 1: a fifty yard pass. I have never heard a defensive

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Speaker 1: coach in the NFL say that before, on the record

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Speaker 1: or off the record, And for him to do has

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Speaker 1: kind of come out and be like, this is what

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Speaker 1: I want to do. I believe this is the way

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Speaker 1: to do it. That's why I would be more comfortable

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Speaker 1: riding with him than I would some other establishment defensive coach,

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Speaker 1: even a guy like Robert Salad to a certain extent,

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Speaker 1: just because I do believe he's kind of thinking of

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Speaker 1: this stuff inverted in a way that actually makes more

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Speaker 1: sense when you consider what the modern structure of the

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Speaker 1: NFL looks like. Robert, That's what I think so fascinating too,

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Speaker 1: is you know, the Chargers, if they're going to go

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Speaker 1: to the playoffs in advance and get to where they

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Speaker 1: want to go, Kansas City's in the way, Buffalo is

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Speaker 1: in the way. You're gonna have to slow those explosive

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Speaker 1: offenses led by Mahomes and Josh Allen. And you laid

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Speaker 1: it out in your article, just the explosive plays that

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Speaker 1: the Rams gave up wasn't many. Wasn't many last year

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Speaker 1: for the Rams. So offensively though, he has Justin Herbert,

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Speaker 1: he has keenan Allen, he has Mike Williams, Austin Ekeler.

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Speaker 1: I have to believe he came into those interviews with

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Speaker 1: a very detailed speci a VIC plan for what he's

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Speaker 1: going to do offensively, or else he probably wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: got the jump, absolutely, because you need consistent offense in

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Speaker 1: order to be a consistent winner in the NFL these days,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how good of a defensive coach you have.

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Speaker 1: You know, Bill Belichick still needed really good offense is

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Speaker 1: to win consistently every single year. But I also think

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Speaker 1: that the Belichick comparison. While I'm not trying to say

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Speaker 1: that Brandon Staley is Bill Belichick, one of the strengths

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Speaker 1: that the Patriots had every single season is that Tom

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Speaker 1: Brady and Bill Belichick would sit down every single week,

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Speaker 1: multiple times and go over the ways that defenses were

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Speaker 1: going to try to attack Tom Brady, and they had

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Speaker 1: the best guy in the world there to explain the

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Speaker 1: ins and outs of the incotry seas of defense to him.

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Speaker 1: I would have to assume that Brandon Staley would be

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Speaker 1: able to do something similar with Justin Herbert over the

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Speaker 1: course of his career, if they could have a dialogue

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Speaker 1: or communication where Bristalley is overlooking the defense obviously and

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Speaker 1: that's his purview, but at the same time is able

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Speaker 1: to say, all right, this is what they're trying to

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Speaker 1: do to you when they do this is what they're

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Speaker 1: trying to do. And I think that understanding defensive rules

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Speaker 1: is one of the most important parts of offensive coaching,

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Speaker 1: and Brandon Staley absolutely understands defensive rules, and he also

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Speaker 1: understands the offensive side because he's a former quarterback who

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of time on that side of the ball.

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Speaker 1: I just think that, again, it's hard to thread a

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Speaker 1: needle where I would want to hire a defensive minded

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Speaker 1: head coach in twenty twenty one. That's my own personal

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Speaker 1: kind of way that I see it. But I do

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Speaker 1: think that if you wanted one, he checks every single

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Speaker 1: box that you would want someone to check. I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad you mentioned the Bilichick and Brady dynamic and how

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Speaker 1: they came together, because you talk about matching intellect. I mean,

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Speaker 1: justin Herbert, one of the brightest guys you're ever going

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Speaker 1: to come across, and you couple that with Brandon Staley,

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Speaker 1: what better guy to bounce ideas off of. There was

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Speaker 1: this natural assumption that, okay, the Charges were going to

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Speaker 1: get an offensive minded coach peram with Herbert, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it was just going to be magical. They're gonna score

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Speaker 1: forty points a game. This may be This maybe be

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Speaker 1: the route that's a little bit smarter and that, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know what you have and Herbert he's gonna pick

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Speaker 1: up whatever offense you throw at him. But to have

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Speaker 1: a head coach who, like you said, played the position

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Speaker 1: at Dayton, but also can help you read defenses and

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Speaker 1: see the game through his lens. I think that's just

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Speaker 1: as important. I absolutely think so, and I understand the

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Speaker 1: clamoring for an offensive coach. I thought that Brian Dable

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Speaker 1: made a lot of sense there at Brian somebody else

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Speaker 1: who I've spoken to recently and written about and kind

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Speaker 1: of thought about his candidacy as a head coach. But

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Speaker 1: I can absolutely understand how the Chargers arrived at this point.

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Speaker 1: I said, I think a couple of weeks ago on

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Speaker 1: our show that if he got in these rooms and

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Speaker 1: the owners started picking his brain about some of this stuff, one,

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Speaker 1: they should do it, just to do it because of

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Speaker 1: the way that he sees it, and you could, I think,

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Speaker 1: learn a lot just by having the conversation with him.

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Speaker 1: But beyond that, I had a feeling that when he

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Speaker 1: got with somebody there was going to be at least

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Speaker 1: one of these ownership groups or one of these leadership

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Speaker 1: groups in a team that was going to say, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I think this is the guy. I was

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Speaker 1: confident that was probably going to happen. And that's what happened.

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Speaker 1: You know, we had that first interview with the Chargers,

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Speaker 1: and apparently it was all system to go after that

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Speaker 1: so this is not surprising to me. And again I

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Speaker 1: am someone who is steadfast and supporting hiring offensive coaches

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Speaker 1: over defensive coaches, and I still can't get behind this

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Speaker 1: move that the Chargers made. Yeah, there's always an exception

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Speaker 1: to the rule, Robert. Final thing for you a checklist

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Speaker 1: for Brandon Staley this offseason if he's going to get

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Speaker 1: this Chargers team back into the postseason. When you look

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Speaker 1: at what the Chargers did this year offensively seven to nine,

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Speaker 1: obviously not the record they were hoping before, what do

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Speaker 1: you think Staley needs to do this offseason to get

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Speaker 1: this team back in contention in the AFC. His coaching

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Speaker 1: staff is going to be the number one question and

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Speaker 1: what it looks like, what it's comprised of, and I

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Speaker 1: think the offensive pieces there are extremely important. You know,

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Speaker 1: is I can never say his name Shan Stashan or

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Speaker 1: is he going to be somebody that they want to

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Speaker 1: retain because of the work they did with Justin Herbert?

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Speaker 1: Is pet Hamilton someone they'd want to keep on the staff.

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Speaker 1: I think that would make a lot of sense considering

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Speaker 1: how well him and Herbert work together. Who's the offensive

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Speaker 1: line coach going to be that is in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: when you're building a staff, that has been the biggest

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Speaker 1: and quickest route to success or some of these guys

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Speaker 1: is finding the right person in that spot. You think

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Speaker 1: about the first year head coaches this year, and the

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Speaker 1: one that had the most success it was Kevin Stefanski,

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Speaker 1: and they went out and they got Bill Callahan, who

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Speaker 1: is a legend in that area and kind of just

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Speaker 1: said the run game, I'll take care of it. And

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Speaker 1: having that guy has been such a common theme for

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Speaker 1: some of these teams that have had quick success with

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Speaker 1: new coaches Stefanski this year. I think if you look

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Speaker 1: back at even the Cardinals run game in the first

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Speaker 1: year under Cliff Kingsbury, it was very good. And Sean Coogler,

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Speaker 1: their offensive line coach, is someone who's done this before.

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Speaker 1: Aaron Cromer and with the Rams is somebody who's been

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Speaker 1: around the block a few different times and has overseen

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Speaker 1: really good run games. And that's what you're getting in

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Speaker 1: LA and have from day one. So I think whoever

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Speaker 1: the guys are in Herbert's ear and the brain trust

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Speaker 1: on that offense and the person in charge of the

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Speaker 1: offensive line, those are going to be the two most

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Speaker 1: important considerations he has here over the next few months.

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Speaker 1: Robert May's the Athletic I love your work man, you

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Speaker 1: do fantastic job over there so much. If you could

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Speaker 1: let our viewers know and our listeners know where they

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Speaker 1: can get your pod and just your work in general.

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Speaker 1: It's the Athletic Football Show. It's available wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts, you know, Apple, Stitchers, Spotify, all of that.

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Speaker 1: I'd encourage you to check it out. We have a

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Speaker 1: great time. It's three shows a week. The Sunday wrap

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Speaker 1: up shows me and my friend Nate Tye. I have

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Speaker 1: a rotating cast of guest on Wednesday, and then Lindsay

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Speaker 1: Jones joins us on Thursday, and Nate's been coming out

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Speaker 1: to preview the playoff games as well, and then I

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Speaker 1: write at the Athletics. So it's just about once a week,

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Speaker 1: typically near the end of the week it's the playoffs,

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Speaker 1: so the schedule is a little bit wonky, but that's

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Speaker 1: what we've been going with recently, so you know, please

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Speaker 1: check it out. It's a fun time a year and

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Speaker 1: i'd really appreciate any more eyeballs. Absolutely, brother, I appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time and hopefully we'll catch up down the line

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Speaker 1: here as this Chargers off season starts to shake out

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Sounds great. I really appreciate it.