1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so very much, 3 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: fortuning in. My name is Ben and peek Behind the 4 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: scenes here we have been knocking out these guests. Episodes 5 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: happen when you really have My name is Noel. Still 6 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: it remains that way. Um. Yeah, we had a lot 7 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: of great guests experiences. We had Daniel Scheffler from everywhere, 8 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: and then we had our dear friend Ryan Barish coming 9 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: in and talking to us about uh, Jimmy Carter's little 10 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: known uncle who was kind of a war badass and 11 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: speaking badasses. We are as always joined with our super producer, 12 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram give it up for him. But that's not 13 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: the only person in the air with us today, is it, No, no, 14 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: not the only badass on the air with us today. 15 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: We have Eve's Jeff Code, whose name you've heard a 16 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: shout out multiple times around the history of the show, 17 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,919 Speaker 1: and she's finally here in the flesh as a human person. 18 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: We're so happy to have you. What a warm welcome. 19 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: I'm excited to be here. Good. Um, tell us a 20 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: little bit about some of the shows that you do 21 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: before we dive into this amazing topic. So another history 22 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: show that I do is This Day in History Class, 23 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: And so that one is kind of a really small, digestible, 24 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: little bite size episodes about history, about an event that 25 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,279 Speaker 1: happened on that day in history, or a person's birthday 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: on that day in history. So the topics on that 27 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: show basically run the gannet um anything from science, tick wore, 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: a lot of war, a lot of massive's history for you. Yeah, 29 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: but they're fun, little digestible daily nuggets kind of it's 30 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: a good way to start your day with the you know, 31 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: what happened on this day in history? Yeah? Yeah, and informative. 32 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: I mean, just just because a lot of those things 33 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: are so like touching and deep and difficult doesn't mean 34 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: that they're not They're not important to learn about of course, 35 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: and history never really ends. This reminds us, go ahead 36 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: and push pause on this podcast, get the to your 37 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: podcast platform of choice, and subscribe not only to This 38 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: Day in History Class, but also Unpopular Eaves. Could you 39 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about Unpopular? Yes. Unpopular is 40 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: a show that covers a person in history for every 41 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: single episode that resisted the status quo in some way 42 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: and a lot of people who resisted the status quo 43 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: because that was what they were doing, were persecuted for it, 44 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: So that is also part of their story. But they 45 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: did it and they did what they had to do. Nonetheless, 46 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: So whether that what that had to do with dress 47 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: reform or whether that had to do with slavery and 48 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: racism against people of color all throughout the the kind 49 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: of imperialist places in in the globe, just everything. So 50 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: some of those people, like one actually who will bring 51 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: up today was Chio Jean, who was a revolutionary in China. Uh. Yes, 52 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: because we have quite a tale ahead of us today. 53 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: This is something that you had told us about off 54 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: Air Eaves, and it's I don't know about you know, 55 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: but it was it was news to me. It's the 56 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: strange story of a book that's familiar to a lot 57 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: of our fellow listeners here in the United States and abroad. 58 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: In its time, it was a huge success. That book 59 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: is Uncle Tom's Cabin. And there's a lot more to 60 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: that story than what you actually read printed on the 61 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: page there, right, It's a deep, deep history that's behind 62 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: Uncle Tom's Cabin. So I guess the reason that I 63 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: found well, I always find things like the way that 64 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: language and words and books and ideas like that move 65 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: across different nations and cultures is just very interesting to me. 66 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: Kind of how things morph um so much and take 67 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: on different meanings and context across cultures is already very 68 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: interesting to me. So I found out that Cho Jean, 69 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: who was this kind of feminist in modern terms and 70 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: a revolutionary in China, knew about Uncle Tom's Cabin and 71 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: read Uncle Tom's Cabin and had included some of Harriet 72 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: beecher Stowe, who was the author of Uncle Tom's Cabin 73 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: in her own poetry, because she wrote poetry as well, 74 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: And that just fascinating. It's like, what why was Uncle 75 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: Tom's Cabin? What was it doing in China? And how 76 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: are they using it in China? Because you would think 77 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: of Uncle Tom's Cabin having a very specific beginning from 78 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: a very specific point in time and in the cultural context, 79 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: because it was about slavery. It was kind of this 80 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: you know, fist out against slavery and this ideas of 81 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: abolitionism that were instilled in Harriet beecher Stowe. Well, it 82 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: kind of it was a pretty big deal of educating 83 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people that wouldn't have even paid attention 84 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: to those lights and kind of having them understand a 85 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: little bit more of the perspective of like what slavery 86 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: really was about. And I think people kind of give 87 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: it some credit for sort of pushing towards, you know, 88 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: the war against slavery. Yeah. Yeah, there's that famous but 89 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: like not verified a quote about Harriet Beecher still saying 90 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: that she was like, oh, look at this is the 91 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: little lady that started the Great War like that, which 92 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: is not verified. It does. It was so incredibly popular 93 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: when it came out. I think they had to leave 94 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: the printing presses running like twenty four hours a day 95 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: to print all to meet the demand. So absolutely, at 96 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: the very least got people kind of hipps to what 97 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: was going on and maybe would have kind of not 98 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: been paying attention. Number two, uh, number two most popular 99 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: book of that century, Yeah to the Bible elands. Yeah. 100 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: The Bible is like it's been hogging number one for 101 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: a while. And I think it's interesting that it was 102 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: the Bible as well, because people have compared Uncle Tom's 103 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: Cabinet itself to the Bible because of its story. Ever, 104 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: did shin in this kind of martyrdom in the in 105 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: the characters, and also to me on something I was 106 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: thinking about in that juxtaposition with the Bible at number 107 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: one in Uncle Tom's cabinet number two was this idea 108 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: of adjusting narratives to fit a certain rhetoric. So that's 109 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: what was done with Uncle Tom's cabin But as we 110 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: know to this day, that's the thing that's done with 111 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: the Bible as well, for sure, I mean, and especially 112 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: I think the term Uncle Tom has obviously been kind 113 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: of co opted is sort of a negative term of abuse, 114 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: and there's all kinds of, you know, charge stuff behind that. 115 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: But I read that it was less to do with 116 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: the book itself and more to do with the stage 117 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: plays that kind of came out and reinterpreted and re contectualized, 118 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: and they had to sell tickets, so they made it 119 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: a little more per and kind of gross. Yeah. So 120 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: the history of minstrel shows themselves is also another ridiculous, 121 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: ridiculous history that's very deep and very just like involved, 122 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: and minstrel shows played a big part in popularizing this 123 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: narrative of the fool, you know, and Tom was an 124 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: easy target in that, even though that's not really what 125 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: Uncle Tom was like in the book itself. And so 126 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: just because of out of these these means of needing 127 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: to make money but also perpetuating dominant narratives of black 128 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: people being inferior and white people being superior, that that 129 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: was an easy way to do that, and that that 130 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: was what sold tickets, you know, that's what brought people 131 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: into their seats as well. So for anyone who doesn't 132 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: remember this book from school, right, a lot of a 133 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: lot of kids read this book in school. We have 134 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: the basic plot, right, just the nuts and bolts of 135 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: the plot. This comes to us from Smithsonian article about 136 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: the real inspiration behind Uncle Tom's cabin. Right. So, the 137 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: beecher Stowe story is this, there are two enslaved people 138 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: and they're about to be sold off by the slave 139 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: owner Kentucky farmers, very much in debt. One of the 140 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: characters is named Harry and flees with his mother north 141 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: to Canada. The other, the character called Uncle Tom, is 142 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: transported down the Mississippi River. He is sold to uh 143 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: terrible plantation owner in Louisiana, and he almost gives up, 144 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: but he receives these visions that keep him standing steadfast, 145 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: and then he encourages two other enslaved people to women 146 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: to go north, but he is beaten to death when 147 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: he refuses to divulge where they've gone. And then Tom's 148 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: original person, the Kentucky farmer in debt, tries to buy 149 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: him back, essentially, but the money comes too late, and 150 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: then the farmer's son goes back to Kentucky. And because 151 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: of the lesson the farmer's son learned, which is a 152 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: little bit white saviory if we're being honest, uh, he says, Okay, 153 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: I've learned him in a set all of my father's 154 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: slaves free. And whenever you see this cabin, think of Tom, 155 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: who taught me to be a less crappy person, essentially. 156 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: But that narrative, that's like you said, no, that's the book. 157 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: That's not the stage play, right, because things in the 158 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 1: book were considered a little too uh dangerous, right, That's right. 159 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: And what we're talking about today is a completely different 160 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: version of this, again, re contextualized for a Chinese audience, 161 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: translated by the incredibly popular Chain Dynasty translator Lynn Shoe. 162 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: But even though we know the story as it was 163 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: originally published, we don't pay as much attention to the 164 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: story about the story, right, So what what's the origin here? 165 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: What inspired Beatrice? So where did it come from? So 166 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: Harriet Beatristoe was a white American woman and she was 167 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: in obviously this was a very turbulent period um, a 168 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: period of transition. This was around the time of the 169 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: Civil War, at the time of the Amanca pacer and 170 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: procle nation. And she was seeing all these people who 171 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: were part of the abolitionist movement and was kind of 172 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: on the fringes of the north and the South and 173 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: saw the slavery, butN also saw the people in the north. 174 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to make it seem as if it 175 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: was such a North south division in terms of there 176 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: were only abolitionists in the North, the only terrible slave 177 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: owners in the South, like that's not exactly how it was. 178 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: But she didn't see, she didn't see both of those 179 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: worlds quote unquote, and so she felt compelled to speak 180 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: out against the institution of slavery, which she thought was 181 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: brutal and objected to. She wasn't the most like go 182 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: hard abolitionists or every anything like that, but she was 183 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: affected by the Fugitive Slave Act of eighteen fifty, which 184 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: was that enslaved people who escaped to the north were 185 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: supposed to be sent back. Basically basically said like anybody, 186 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: everyone is responsible for doing this exactly, and anybody, even 187 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: if you didn't weren't complicit in the actual owning of slaves, 188 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: if you were complicit in this fugitive Slave Act in 189 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: terms of catching the slaves and sending them back, then 190 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: you were also part of this terrible institution. And so 191 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: she was affected by that Fugitive Slaved Act, and she 192 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: really wanted to draw the sympathy of northerners by showing 193 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: them exactly what the horrors of slavery were. And she 194 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: also um a thing about her own personal anecdote is 195 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: that she had a child who died who was eighteen 196 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: months old in eighteen forty nine, and so she sympathized 197 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: with mothers who were enslaved because obviously family separation is 198 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: a huge part of the history of slavery. And she 199 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: also wrote that she was divinely inspired, so the book 200 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: was kind of written by the hand of God. In 201 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: one edition of Uncle Tom's Cabin So I have to 202 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: mention here that one inspiration for her story was Josiah Hanson, 203 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: who was a formerly enslaved black man. And so that's 204 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: important just because she didn't live through slavery. So you 205 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: know that a lot of people who were enslaver, who 206 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: were formally enslaved, wrote their own stories but didn't get 207 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: as much shine as she did because they were black 208 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: and they were formerly enslaved and just had a different 209 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: kind of access um and platform. And so along with 210 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: Josiah Hinson, who wrote a memoir called the Life of 211 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: Josiah Hinson, formerly a slave now an inhabitant of Canada, 212 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: has narrated by himself um that was published in early 213 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 1: eighteen forty nine, which is just a couple of years 214 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: before Uncle Tom's Cabin was published in eighty two. Yeah. Yeah, 215 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: And so Uncle Tom's character had a lot of similarities 216 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: with the character of Josiah Hinson. And she even wrote 217 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: that Hinson inspired the character along with a bunch of 218 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: other people, you know, a bunch of other stories of 219 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: people who were previously enslaved and who were abolitionists. It's 220 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: interesting too, she actually got a lot of flak of 221 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: people saying that we're against what she was talking about, 222 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: like that this was all made up, this is all 223 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: overly emotional. There was no way that this stuff was real. 224 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: So she, in response to that, in eighteen fifty three, 225 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: released this companion piece called A Key to Uncle Tom's 226 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: Cabin Facts and Documents, upon which the original story is founded, 227 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: together with collaborative statements verifying the true of the work 228 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: by Harriet Beecher stuff. So it was like a response 229 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: directly to that. Yeah, and she had to do that 230 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: because of all the pro slavery advocates, and not all 231 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: of these people were necessarily, you know, barn stormers about it. 232 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: There were a lot of kind of milk toasts centrists 233 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, who are like, hey, can we compromise on this? 234 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: And they put out all these newspaper articles. I think 235 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: that inspired Beecher Stowe to respond, and they said stuff 236 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: like a few facts from Mrs Stowe and Uncle Tom Mania, 237 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: Well I got something for you. Yeah. I think a 238 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: lot of the people to just felt that slavery was justified, 239 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: like there was nothing wrong with it. So if you 240 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: imagine somebody having that perspective and viewpoint that like slaveries, Okay, 241 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: what's wrong with there? What are you talking about? Why 242 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: are you making it seem so horrible? They like what 243 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: they're getting there have a good lot, Um, then there 244 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: is no reason for you to write a novel like 245 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: this trying to awaken the consciousness of the people to 246 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: what was so bad about slavery? Right. But if it's 247 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: that's that's the inherent uh disconnect, right, that's the logical fallacy. 248 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: There they're saying, there's nothing wrong with this, so stop 249 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: talking about you know, classic double things like this isn't 250 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: a problem. But if it is, no one must know 251 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: about it exactly. Yeah, something else is going on deeper there, right, 252 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: for sure. So Harriet Beetristow polished Uncle Tom's Cabin in 253 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: an abolitionist newspaper called The National Era, and she did 254 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: that in eighteen fifty one, and then the next year, 255 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty two, Uncle Tom's Cabin was published in book four, 256 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: and so it was basically an immediate hit. Um. It 257 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: wasn't one of those things that was kind of the 258 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: slow burn up to the popularity of it. It was, 259 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: you know, in its first five years in print, it 260 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: sold more than five hundred thousand copies. It was the 261 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: best selling novel of the nineteenth century. And it inspired 262 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: this part is funny to me. It inspired a bunch 263 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: of Uncle Tom branded merchandise um in Britain, like Uncle 264 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: Tom's shrinkable woolen stockings that reminds me of the passion 265 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: of the Christ. They had like little nail necklaces that 266 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: you can get it, like gas stations that always made 267 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: me cringe. Shrinking I don't know what the shrinkable part means, 268 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: is like a shrinky dink situation woolen stockings, But there 269 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: were a bunch of things like that too, like I 270 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: imagine mugs. But the thing that's funny about it to 271 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: me is because precisely because of that whole the way 272 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: that Uncle Tom the phrase is viewed now Uncle Tom 273 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: merchandise is a totally different thing now in this context, 274 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: and it was then. It just makes me imagine of 275 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: like imagine a store, an antique store in Savannah that 276 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: just has a ton of racist memorabilia. Absolutely and just 277 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: just for this isn't a term that I hear thrown 278 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: around much anymore, but can just to catch people up, 279 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: what is the negative connotation of that term? Okay, so 280 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: the negative connotation of Uncle Tom is kind of a 281 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: person being a quote unquote good negro, like somebody who's submissive, 282 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: somebody who is compliant and willing to do basically anything. 283 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: And like we said earlier that the character himself, he 284 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: wasn't that way. People viewed him as a martyr then, 285 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: and he is more of a hero, you know, he's 286 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: a protagonist and he's a positive hero. But the term 287 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: Uncle Tom because of the minstrel shows in the way 288 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: that the white people who were producing these minstrel shows 289 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: portrayed Uncle Tom's character as this fool, as a person 290 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: who was an oh, just bumbling about the stage. Basically 291 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: they were, and I guess in there as successful in 292 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: making creating that character for Uncle Tom, for sure. And 293 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: it's interesting, like the first place I ever heard of 294 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: Uncle Tom's Cabin was in the musical The King and 295 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: I there's a play within the play where some of 296 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: the characters put on a production of Uncle Tom's Cabin 297 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: for the King of Siam Um just obviously in Asia. 298 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: And today we're talking about the way Uncle's Tom's Cabin 299 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: made its way to China and was hugely popular. And 300 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: also another version of that kind of like re contextualization 301 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: and sort of like changing the narrative to fit the 302 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: goals of the you know, the culture kind of or 303 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: even finding um, finding analogs, it's not changing the narrative 304 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: for seeing the universal via the specific, absolutely, And I 305 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: just think it's such an interesting story as as far 306 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: as like how this translation took root and what ended 307 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: up happening with it. So we threw out some of 308 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: these astonishing statistics right about the publication of Uncle Tom's 309 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: Cabin in the US, for sure, and we implied some 310 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: of the we alluded to rather some of the global 311 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: statistics you mentioned. The merchandise was very popular in Britain, right. 312 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: I think over over one point five million copies of 313 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: Uncle Tom's Cabin were sold in just a few years 314 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: after publication in Britain. This was a global phenomenon, and 315 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: people weren't as worried about copyright laws, you know what 316 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: I mean. So someone could just get a copy of 317 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: this and make their own thing. They also had the 318 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: agency to change it if they hunted, right, and they did. 319 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: Whatever do you mean? Yeah, And so the novel definitely 320 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: did really well outside of the United States, um, as 321 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: you said in Britain, but it also did really well 322 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: in France, and it did really well in Russia. And 323 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: it's interesting too because in addition to China, which we'll 324 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: get you in a second. It was also translated into 325 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: German and pretty much immediately, and by eighteen fifty two 326 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: there were already thirteen different German additions. So it wasn't 327 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: just popular in other places, it was super popular in 328 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: other places besides the United States. Um after in fact, 329 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: actor it was published in Germany and I'm going to 330 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 1: butcher this German word, so please forgive me. But there 331 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: was a new genre of slave narrative emerging called Sclavinckton. 332 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 1: I tried, I could spell it really well. We're famous 333 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: for a butchery of foreign words. So you did a 334 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: great job, thank you, um. And but those were slave stories, 335 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: and so the condition of enslaved people in America was 336 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: compared to those the conditions of workers in Germany. And 337 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: also at that time, German immigration to the States was increasing, 338 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: and so that comparison of German immigrants to African American 339 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: helped define immigrants high status, and the Germans replaced that 340 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: issue of race with the issue of class to make 341 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: it fit their own narrative. And they sometimes even suggested 342 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,719 Speaker 1: that enslaved black people in the in America were treated 343 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: better than German servants were, and so a similar idea 344 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: to that was also present in China. You know, the 345 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: idea that, as we spoke of earlier, how popular Uncle 346 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: Tom's Cabin was in America, the way that Harriet Beecher 347 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: Stowe positioned Uncle Tom's it was kind of like a 348 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: soft way of advocating for anti slavery sentiments. And so 349 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: the ideas that surrounded how that moved that idea moved 350 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,959 Speaker 1: in America were also translated to China, and so at 351 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: the time there was a lot of turbulence in China. 352 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: Uncle Tom's Cabin was translated in nineteen o one in China, 353 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: and it was published and I'm going to attempt Chinese 354 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: here as hey knu ye ten lu, and that meant 355 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: black slaves appealed to heaven. And that was by Lean Shoe, 356 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: a translator, and also boy Ye, and they worked together 357 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: on translating this novel. Lynn Shoe is really interesting character. 358 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: He was super popular during the Qing dynasty. He translated 359 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: things like Charles Dickens and Washington Irving and he did 360 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: like up a hundred and eighty full length books and 361 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: everything from like short stories to essays into Chinese between 362 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: eighteen nineteen twenty UM and then of course, one of 363 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: his more famous ones as this translation of Uncle Thoma's Cabin. 364 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: It's interesting though, he had like twenty assistance and he 365 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: didn't speak any of foreign languages at all. He only 366 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: spoke Chinese. And he did this thing called tandem translation, 367 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: which is super popular, where you would get what would 368 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 1: be considered a lower class citizen who could speak another language, 369 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: because to be able to write in Chinese like he could, 370 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: he had to be in the highest echelon of society. 371 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: That was a very highly educated, privileged position. This was 372 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: also this first translation was classical Chinese, so it's going 373 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: to be a more elevated tone, right, Maybe I guess 374 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: the two would be that it lends itself to slightly 375 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: more poetic description what's need. So what we would do 376 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: for tandem translation is he would have the English speaker 377 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: read him the story translating from English to Chinese, and 378 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: then he would hear it and do his own translation, 379 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: like in his head on the fly. So there's the 380 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: poetic license all these different things. And so I just 381 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: want to say that to point out the irony in 382 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: this is that because I do not read Chinese, I 383 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: have to work off of the translations of a translation 384 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: of a translation. Um, so you can just imagine, you know, 385 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: in playing telephone and thinking about translations, how much is 386 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: already lost in just what is not able to be 387 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: said succinctly and accurately in a different language as compared 388 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: to the next. On top of that, Lean she took 389 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: his own personal liberties in telling the story like Uckle 390 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: Tom's Cabin. Yeah, Like, I think he actually made a 391 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: different character, kind of the hero. He did, so he 392 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: made George Harris kind of the hero. And George Harris 393 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: had this story of you know, being here fighting against 394 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: slavery and slave owners, fleeing to Canada, and then going 395 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: to Liberia to help found Liberia. And it's interesting because 396 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: later this idea of Liberia becomes kind of symbol in 397 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,959 Speaker 1: the story of Uncle Tom's Cabin to Chinese people, and 398 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: that it is this idea of self reliance. And so 399 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: whereas Liberia, the whole plot of Harris going to Liberia 400 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: in America was looked down upon in terms of this 401 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: idea of bringing the kind of back to Africa. Taking 402 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: all the black Africans who were brought from Africa to 403 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: America back to Africa was something that was an idea 404 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: that was going around at the time. So it was 405 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: looked down upon in the book at that time. But 406 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: later in China, liberia operated as this symbol of self 407 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: reliance and liberation and freedom, and we know that this 408 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: garnered attention in the US as well. Right in the 409 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: book Racial Reconstruction, Black Inclusion, Chinese Exclusion by ed Lee Wong, 410 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: there's this there's this fascinating note where people begin comparing 411 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: the different versions of Uncle Tom's cabin or a Black 412 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: Slaves Appeal to Heaven with other things like the Turkish version, right, 413 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: and the Persian version, and they start noticing some of 414 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: these differences. Right, So we said the protagonist changes, the 415 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: interpretation of Liberia changes. What are some other notable divergences 416 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: of plot or tone. So I will note about people 417 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: knowing about all these different translations in the United States, 418 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: people did write about them, so they were aware that 419 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: Chinese translations were happening. But it's funny because they weren't 420 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: mentioning the anti imperialist dances that were in those translations. 421 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: They were just saying, look at all these translations, everybody 422 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: loves Harriet feature Still's Uncle Tom's caven Um and wasn't 423 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: mentioning them, So that just made me think of that. 424 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,199 Speaker 1: But there's also a quote that I like by critic 425 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: Leslie Fiedler, and he once said, for better or worse, 426 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: it was Mrs Stowe who invented American blacks for the 427 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: imagination of the whole world. So I think that can 428 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: be a very grand statement, like it's kind of it 429 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: can seem like kind of an overstatement, but it does 430 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: get to that essence of how much of an international 431 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: impact Uncle Tom's Cabin had. And so basically where most 432 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: of the differences the divergences came in Uncle Tom's Cabin 433 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: as translation as a black slaves appeal to Heaven, which 434 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: is just one translation of the name itself, but that's 435 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: pretty much how all the other translations go, whether that's 436 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: a black slaves prior to Heaven, Yeah, but it's all 437 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: along those same lines. Is that it had this anti imperialist, 438 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: anti us, anti white, if you would call it, and 439 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: kind of a pro we have this unified consciousness of 440 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: being a quote unquote yellow race or a quote unquote 441 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: yellow people informing this kind of collective consciousness around the 442 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: fact that whatever was done was in service of proving 443 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: that point of that we're going to be slaves pretty soon, 444 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: just like you know, the African Americans in the United 445 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: States if we don't do something about the way that 446 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: this white encroachment and US policies, US policies. The Opium 447 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: Wars had just finished, and so there was a lot 448 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: of carving up of China and just like hands in 449 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: China and the twenty one Demands and just all of 450 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: this imperialists and international and white you know, domination and 451 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 1: cultural changes that were happening. And and and I will 452 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: say that the other thing about the novel that change 453 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: was the inclusion of Christianity. So that was a big thing. 454 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: As I said, Harriet Beecher Stolle said that the novel 455 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: was divinely inspired, written by a God's hand, or however 456 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: she said it. But lean shot took out a lot 457 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,479 Speaker 1: of the Christianity that was involved in the story itself 458 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: because that didn't fit. That didn't we don't need that 459 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: to prove our point. But that's literally Uncle Tom's character. 460 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: He's devoutly Christian in the book. Right. Well, it was 461 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: first self for them, it was a protest novel, so 462 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: I didn't really have to be about literature, what's about art? 463 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: You know that later it wasn't even really looked at 464 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: as an artistic work at the time. It really did 465 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: just function in a political means, and so it wasn't 466 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: until like the nineteen eighties when people started to recognize 467 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: it and value it a little bit more as an 468 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 1: artistic work, as a good work of literature, even though 469 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: it's not like the greatest work. That's pretty poorly written. 470 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,239 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the criticism I've seen a lot. It's 471 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: not a super page turn if I'm being honest, it's 472 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: and it's yeah, it's but it is the first American 473 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: novel translated into Chinese. That's another accolade we can on there. 474 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: So it's fascinating to see this because taking this to 475 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: the modern context, just as a quick aside, we see 476 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: something very similar happening with US produced feature films now 477 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: because the market in China is so huge. There's so 478 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: many people that a film could be at an utter 479 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: failure here in the US, but then it can make 480 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: all the money back and more in China. The problem 481 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: is one of narrative and cultural interpretation. So the authorities 482 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: in the Chinese government will take films that appear in 483 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: one version in the US, like the Avengers are literally 484 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: insert any blockbuster film here and then there will be 485 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: a different version that shows in China. One of the 486 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: weirdest examples of this. One of the most apparent would 487 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: be the Pacific Rim series. Uh, you know, giant robots 488 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: fighting giant Kaiju monsters, right, because it did so well 489 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: in the Chinese market, the sequel Pacific Rim something or other. 490 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: They don't call it just number two. It is heavily, 491 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: like heavily leans into themes that would be considered by 492 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: the authorities more appropriate for a native Chinese audience. And 493 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: the question then is at what point are we telling 494 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: two different stories? So to take it back to Uncle 495 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: Tom's cabin or a black slaves appeal to heaven. At 496 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: what point does Lends Shoes story become something fundamentally different 497 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: from Beecher Stows. So yeah, At the time, the situation 498 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: in the US with Chinese immigrants and laborers was very 499 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: interesting because it was in the eighteen eighties eight two 500 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: to be specific, when the Chinese Exclusion Act was signed, 501 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: and so the Chinese Exclusion Act was a federal law. 502 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: There were a lot of other laws already but this 503 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: was a federal law that banned Chinese labors from immigrating 504 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: to the US. And so that came at a time 505 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: when white people, specifically in the Western United States, but 506 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: people were you know, and this was the time of 507 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: the Goal Rush as well, so there was a lot 508 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: of competition, and Chinese immigrants were coming to the US 509 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: looking for gold but also taking a lot of low 510 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: wage jobs, and so companies were paying people low wage jobs, 511 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: and the white people who were working with these companies 512 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: saw that and that was driving their costs down, and 513 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: they were viewing this as quote unquote an invasion of 514 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: Chinese people into the United States because they were coming in, 515 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: they were willing to work for these low wages, and 516 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: they already had all of these ideas about what Chinese 517 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: people were and what Eastern Asians were to them, which 518 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: was kind of this this inferior people who were primitive, 519 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: who had special powers, who you know, they just I mean, 520 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: go back and look at some of the propaganda are 521 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: furing that time, you know, yeah, control it's crazy. So 522 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: that's what the sentiment around Chinese people was in the 523 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds going into the nineteen hundred. I think 524 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: the Chinese Exclusion Act wasn't repealed until nineteen forty three. Yeah, 525 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: so it was a long time it was set to begin. 526 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: It was set to go on for ten years in 527 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: the beginning, then it was renewed, and then it went 528 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: on until nineteen forty three when it was repealed. So 529 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: there was all this competition, what they thought was competition 530 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: from these people who they felt was invading. And I 531 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: just want to point out here too that that is 532 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: not isolated, like that sentiment is still present today in 533 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: the United States, um about feelings about Eastern Asians and 534 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: about Chinese people in this anti Chinese sentiment. So those 535 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: sentiments extended even beyond Chinese people to the Eastern world. 536 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: It shifted to the Japanese a little bit later. There 537 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: was this idea of general Yellow peril, which was a 538 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: xenophobic fear of this made up danger that Eastern Asians 539 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: posed to the Western world. They were seen as the other. 540 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: And so back in China, we were nearing the end 541 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: of the Ching dynasty which ended in nineteen twelve, and 542 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: so Emperor guang Shu was ruling at the time, though 543 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: Empress Dowager, so she was the one who was really 544 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: in charge. And so, as you said earlier, Lynch, you 545 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: translated a lot of books, and also he has expressed 546 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: in other books that anti imperialist sentiment as well. But 547 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: Uncle Tom's Cabin was a big one, and it was 548 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: only the second foreign novel he translated, and he really 549 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: showed the character of Western societies and showed that there 550 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: was good literature outside of China. So that's kind of 551 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: an initial impact that it had on people, just presenting 552 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: this idea of slavery in this kind of writing and 553 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: literature to people in China who weren't necessarily familiar with 554 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: this kind of work. So even though it was sort 555 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: of tailored a little bit to be more appealing or 556 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: to kind of like push forth this agenda, it did 557 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: still accomplish something pretty powerful. Yeah, it did. It was 558 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,479 Speaker 1: in terms of power, I mean, Land show himself that 559 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: work and his work influence other people to translate many, 560 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: many more foreign work, so that's important, you know. And 561 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: he also influenced the development of modern fiction in China. 562 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: And yeah, so it's really interesting to think about this 563 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: guy who who didn't know foreign languages, is that influential? 564 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: This is something I was going to save it. Frost fair, 565 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: but this is something that still happens today. There is 566 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: a famous uh roomy translator professor I think, working out 567 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: of Chattanooga named Coleman Barks. He doesn't read, nor speak 568 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: Farsi nor Arabic of any sort. What he does is 569 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: probably similar to Lynn Shoes Lynn Shoes process in some ways. 570 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: It's it's just fascinating though when you think about it, 571 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: a translator who doesn't speak the language they translate, you know, 572 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: it gives us. It gives us these um these dramatic reinterpretations. 573 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: There's a ton of room for error, but it also 574 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: can give us a unique sort of thematic fingerprint because 575 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: we're we're hearing this through the mind of several people, 576 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: and in there when they're writing towards a goal, which 577 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: Lynchu certainly is. I think it's a sincere goal. I 578 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: don't think it's like crassly manipulative. We we can see 579 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: that they're they're honing in on the focus. I really 580 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: want to read their version of this now and then 581 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,719 Speaker 1: maybe go back and read the original and see what's different. 582 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: When I learned to read Chinese, and I have I 583 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: have Harry Potter books and Chinese at home that I 584 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: got when I was in China, because I was like, 585 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: these covers are awesome and how could I not have 586 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: Harry Potter and Chinese are the titles like wildly different, 587 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: sort of like the I can't read them because I'm 588 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: not I don't know kanji. I don't know kanji. I'm 589 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: trying to learn. But the cover, the cover art itself 590 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: is they look the like Harry and Haggard look more 591 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: Chinese and they do British, you know, on the covers, 592 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,719 Speaker 1: and they're just so fluid and flowy and blue and magical. 593 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: They look so magical. And I'm already a fan if 594 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: you can't tell, I'm a fan of Harry Potter, but 595 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: I'm already a fan of the the U. S r 596 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: Um And so I got those and I was just like, 597 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: one day, I'm going to learn to read Chinese. I'm 598 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: gonna figure it out and learn to speak Mandarin. You know, 599 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna figure it out. But anyway, Um, I think, 600 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: to what you were saying, Ben, that was an aside. 601 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 1: I think to what you were saying, been about that 602 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: translation of a translation also makes me think that it 603 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: just makes the world feeld a little bit smaller because 604 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: I don't know another language, and language is a huge 605 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: barrier for me when I travel somewhere or even am 606 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: in America and I'm in a place that's a community 607 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: for people who don't speak the English language, and I'm 608 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: an outsider, and I have guilt around that, and so 609 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, knowing that you can still communicate with people 610 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: beyond language barriers. I think it's some some kind of 611 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: inspiration in the translations of the translations thatly and She 612 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: was doing. I that's well put. As someone who's also 613 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: slow learning Mandarin, that that is well played. I've got 614 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: a couple of the books you mentioned and speaking side notes. 615 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: You probably already know this Eaves, but there are tons 616 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: of unofficial other Harry Potter books written by and for 617 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: the Chinese market. They're not they're not approved by j K. 618 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: I don't know what happens, but I know there's there 619 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: are allegedly tons of them. So if when you and 620 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: I get our Mandarin down, we might never have to 621 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: stop reading. Here. I got a few of those titles 622 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: right here. If you're interested in what it's called. Harry 623 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: Potter and the Leopard, Walk Up to Dragon, Harry Potter 624 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: and the Chinese porcelain doll stone. Uh, Harry, Harry Potter 625 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: and the Big funnel. Wait is that mentor it's like 626 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: it's a symbol for imperialism even deeper rip off check? 627 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: Or this is from Russia. Tanya Groder and the Magical 628 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: Double Bass and it's yeah on the covers like a 629 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: Harry Potter asked young lady writing on a flying double 630 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: bass and holding like, uh, it's like a magic stone 631 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: in her hands. And you can you can learn more 632 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: of that. Uh, there's a Mental Floss article. Let's I'm 633 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: finding Harry Potter and Calcutta Indian version and Harry Potter 634 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: and the water repelling Pearl. What a repelling? Yeah, what 635 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: a quality? Well here check out the art. See it's 636 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: he's the pearl I think is down there repelling. That's 637 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,439 Speaker 1: quite a pearl. That that may not be the best 638 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: example of cover art out of these dot offs, but 639 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: these titles are great. They're so good. You can totally 640 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: find that article and Mental Floss and man, this has 641 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: been really educational on so many levels and really fun 642 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: to have this conversation and to have you on the show. Eaves, 643 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Yes, thank you 644 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: very much. For your time to Eves. Uh for everybody 645 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: who is rushing to check out your shows Unpopular and 646 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: this state in History class? Where where should they go 647 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 1: find you? So they're all on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter, 648 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: and so you can look up Unpopular um on all 649 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: of those platforms, and you can also look at this 650 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: day in History class on all of those social media things. 651 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: And while you are on the internet, if you have 652 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: not had a chance to do so yet, why not 653 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: check out our show We're We're a lousy on the Internet. 654 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: We're all over the place. You can find us on Facebook, 655 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: you can find us on Instagram, you can find us 656 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: on Twitter. You can hang out with our favorite part 657 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: of the show, your fellow listeners on our Facebook community page, 658 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. And if you feel like hanging out with 659 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: me and Ben individually, you can find me on Instagram 660 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: at how Now Noel Brown. And you can see my 661 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: various adventures and misadventures here and abroad at Ben Bullen 662 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: on Instagram. You can hear my terrible attempt at one 663 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 1: liners at Ben bull and hs W on Twitter. Hughes, 664 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: thanks again to you, Eves for being here with us today. 665 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: Thanks to our super producer Casey Pegram. Thanks to Christopher 666 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: Haciots always here in our hearts. Thanks to Jonathan Strickland 667 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: The Quister for once again not showing up. But I 668 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 1: feel like our time is running out. Yeah yeah, yeah, 669 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: we are overdue. But it's uh, it's one of those 670 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,439 Speaker 1: kind of live in the moment, embraced the now sort 671 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 1: of things. We never know when Jonathan Strickland ak the 672 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 1: Quister will show up. That's why you can hear is 673 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: speeding up a little on our outros exactly we're trying 674 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: to get past that point. Thanks also to Alex Williams, 675 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: who composed the stone cold hit that you hear at 676 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: the beginning of every episode of Ridiculous History. Thanks to 677 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: Gaye Lousia, Thanks to Ryan Bearish, thanks to Lynn Shoe 678 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: and Hey Old Brown. Thanks to you. Thanks to you too, man. 679 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts for 680 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 681 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,760 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.