1 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: Lute. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. 2 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military Nails and 3 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community. Hi, welcome 4 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: back to soft Rep Radio. I am your host Brad 5 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: and I have a very special guest today, and I'm 6 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: going to tell you about him real quick here. So, 7 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: first of all, his name's Douglas Luke and he's a 8 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: part of a group of former national security advisors under 9 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: the Bush administration who are set to release a new book, 10 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: handoff the foreign policy George W. Bush passed to Barack 11 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: Obama on February fifteenth. The book makes public for the 12 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: first time a set of thirty newly declassified transition memoranda 13 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: that were prepared by President Bush's National Security Council staff 14 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: for the incoming Obama administration to outline the key foreign 15 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: policy challenges that it would be facing. The book features 16 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: self critical insights and analysis from a handful of National 17 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: Security Council experts who advised President Bush, including the former 18 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: Deputy National Security Advisor for Iraq and Afghanistan. Our guest, 19 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: Douglas Loute. Now he currently serves as the CEO of 20 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: Cambridge Global Advisor's LLC, which is a certified service disabled 21 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: veteran owned small business for those of you out there 22 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: that are in the small business world and our veterans, 23 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: he's one of those. Here we go. So in the book, 24 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: Douglas contributes to the analysis of President Bush's foreign policy 25 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: legacy with an in depth look at military intervention in 26 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: Iraq and Afghanistan. So at that introduction, welcome to our show, 27 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: Oh grace, it's really good to be with you. Yes, 28 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: thank you. So tell me how old were you when 29 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: joined the army. Well, so, look, I grew up in 30 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: Michigan City, Indiana, on the southernmost point of Link Michigan 31 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: as it juts down around Chicago into northern Indiana, and 32 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 1: left there when I was eighteen, went to West Point 33 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: and frankly never went back. So I guess the short 34 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: answer your question is, I was eighteen when I went 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: to West Point. Yeah, And were you like baseball? Well, 36 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: if you're in Indiana and you're growing up, you're playing basketball. 37 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: I did that as as well as everybody in my 38 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: coord but not well enough to make anything of it 39 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: beyond sort of high school. So I didn't play at 40 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: West Point, but played recreationally up until maybe ten years 41 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: ago or so, when you know eventually your knees give out, sir, Now, 42 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: what was your academia focused on in West Point? So 43 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: at the time, everybody graduated from West Point in those 44 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: days got a Bachelor of Science degree because West Point originated, 45 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: you know, one hundred some years earlier as an engineering school, right, 46 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: so a legacy of that beginning, everyone gets a Bachelor 47 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: of Sunstree. But we did not yet have majors and 48 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: miners when I graduated. They do now. But I focused 49 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: on international security affairs, so pretty much the sort of 50 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: thing that I ended up doing later, much later in 51 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: my army career. Yeah. So here you are a young 52 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: man going into West Point eighteen saying when I grow up, 53 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: I want to be involved in international affairs. And now 54 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: when you look back on your younger self telling yourself 55 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 1: you're going to be involved in national affairs, did you 56 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: believe it? Well, you know, it was so far over 57 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: the horizon for me. You know, when you're an undergraduate student. 58 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: I think most undergraduates have some image of what they 59 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: want to do, right, but I suspect the hit rate 60 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: that is the connection between what they end up doing 61 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: and what they imagine they were going to do as 62 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: undergraduates isn't very high actually, right, And as you know, 63 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: life takes a lot of sort of twists and turns 64 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: and unforeseen opportunities and so forth. So I had a 65 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: persistent interest in foreign policy and international affairs and sort 66 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: of strategic geostrategic issues. But you know, when you're in 67 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: the army as a lieutenant, a captain, a major, even 68 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: a colonel, and lieutenant colonel no, yeah, you've got your 69 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: head down knowing what the army expects you to do, 70 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: and you know it really, I mean, it could be 71 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: a passing interest, but it's mostly that you're consumed as 72 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: an army officer with day to day affairs and you know, 73 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: the next deployment or the next National Training Center rotation, 74 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: or you know, whatever's around the corner. So I had 75 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: this interest, but it didn't really sort of come to 76 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: fruition until later in my career. I suppose as a 77 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 1: lieutenant colonel, I first sort of reconnected with the sort 78 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: of strategic level because I was on the Joint Staff 79 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: in J five. This is strategic plans and policy, and 80 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: it happened to be a ninety four to ninety six, 81 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: right in the middle of the Balkans Wars. So at 82 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 1: that level in the Pentagon, in the Directorate that was 83 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: dealing with the Dayton Accords and all that, working for 84 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: General Wes Clark who was working on the Dayton Accords 85 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: to try to bring a close to the violence in Bosingham. 86 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 1: That's where I really got my sort of sank my 87 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: teeth into international affairs. Yeah. And so as you get 88 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: from lieutenant colonel, as you you know, climb the ladder 89 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: of lieutenant captain, you know, moving on up lieutenant colonel, colonel, 90 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,559 Speaker 1: you hit brigadier general in your life, right, and so 91 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: what was that like that moment when you're like, hey, 92 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,799 Speaker 1: it's coming. Well, so this is a big army officers, 93 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: and I think for the other services as well, that 94 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: the gate leading to flag rank, right. So in the Army, 95 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: brigadier general or admiral in the Navy is a big cut, 96 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: and you know, you aspire to it, but you're never 97 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: quite sure how you're going to match up, and there 98 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: are it's not predictable. It's not fully predictable. I mean, 99 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: nobody should have comp finance that they're going to make 100 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: flag rank. They're just too many variables. Right. Things happened 101 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: before I made one star brigadier general in the Army. However, 102 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: I had a really unique experience, and that was first 103 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: to command a cavalry regiment, which took me back to 104 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: my roots as a young officer because I had served 105 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: in the same regiment. But then right after regimental command, 106 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: went back to the Pentagon and served as the executive 107 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: officer for General Hugh Shelton, who was came out of 108 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: the soft community and was then the Chairman of the 109 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: Joint Chiefs. So that was an particularly interesting portal to 110 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: watch what was happening at the senior most levels of 111 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: our military as I worked at his side, right, and 112 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: in particular I worked at his side on nine to eleven. 113 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: So that was a real eye opener in terms of 114 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: the way sometimes history presents events like nine to eleven 115 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: that significantly change everything that follows. Right, So on September tenth, 116 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: we could not a two thousand and one. We could 117 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: not have imagined the full impact of the next day, 118 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: September eleventh. But beginning on September twelfth, the world had changed. Right, 119 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: and you, your listeners, all of us Americans, especially right 120 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: have vivid memories of where we were on nine to eleven, 121 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: and to some extent rod we're still living with the 122 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: consequences of that sunny day in September twenty years ago, 123 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: so that was sort of a where were you when 124 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: that did happen? So on that day I was with 125 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,679 Speaker 1: the Chairman, General Shelton. We had taken off from Andrew's 126 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: Air Force Base on a military passenger aircraft headed to 127 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: a meeting in NATO. I think it was a meeting 128 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: in Romania or someplace right, a long scheduled meeting. So 129 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: we had taken off early that day overflown Manhattan crystal 130 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: clear blue sky, and we were making our way to Europe. 131 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: As we approached the boundaries of the United Kingdom, one 132 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: of the pilots, one of the military pilots, came back 133 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: into the cabin, the passenger cabin or the aircraft and said, 134 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, Colonel Luke, we've been watching or listening to 135 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: BBC BBC radio because we're kind of bored up here 136 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: in the cockpit, and you know, there's this peculiar report 137 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: that a plane has struck one of the twin towers, 138 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: and we thought, gosh, you know, that's really strange because 139 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: we had overflown Manhattan. It was a crystal clear Scott 140 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: Hope this. Yeah, you know, we made a failure of imagination, right. 141 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: We imagined that this was some small, you know, single pilot, 142 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: privately owned aircraft. You know, maybe there was a mishap 143 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: in the cockpit or a health issue or something with 144 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: the pilot, and there's a tragic incident. Right. A few 145 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: minutes later, Okay, same pilot comes back and reports the 146 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: second tower was hit. I said, okay, this is obviously 147 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: no accident. I went back into the personal cabin where 148 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: the chairman was and said, look, we've had not one, 149 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: but two two strikes. And he said, okay, turn us around. 150 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: We're not going to Romania for the NATO meeting. We're 151 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: going back to Washington. So we turned around. We're refueled 152 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: in mid air. As we approached the US air space, 153 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: which had been shut down, right, all planes had been grounded. 154 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: At that point, we picked up a fighter jet escort 155 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: I suppose one on each wing, and they were to 156 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: escort us to back to Andrew's Air Force space. We 157 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: overflew Manhattan at this time. Now the smoke plume was 158 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: at twenty thousand feet, so we literally sort of overflew 159 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: ground zero landed at Andrew's Air Force Space, which is 160 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: in Maryland outside DC. As soon as we landed, we 161 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: could see on the horizon the smoke from the Pentagon, 162 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: which had also been struck. We made our way by 163 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: motorcade to the west lawn of the Pentagon, which had 164 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: been had a couple images, you know, Rob, to stick 165 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: with you that things you can't quite explain. One is 166 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: that as we approached the side of the attack, which 167 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,719 Speaker 1: was still sort of smoldering, the fire had mostly been 168 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: put out, still smoldering, the casualties had been evacuated, and 169 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: so forth, someone had had the instinct, I guess, to 170 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: rope off the whole west lawn of the Pentagon with 171 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: the sort of yellow police line marker tape. You know, 172 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: we thought like it was really necessary. I mean, it's 173 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: pretty clear that something happened here, you know, but somebody 174 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: was doing somebody was following the soop right, the standard 175 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 1: operating procedures. I remember stepping over this tape, this yellow 176 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: crime scene tape, and as we've made our way closer 177 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: to the point of impact, not getting too close, but 178 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: you know, just getting closer. There was an aircraft seat, 179 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: almost undamaged, sitting on the lawn and the Pentagon, and 180 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: I thought, to my this bothers me, not bothers me, 181 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: but it, you know, it puzzles me to this day. 182 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: How did that seat survive the impact and end up 183 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: on the lawn when the rest of the plane was 184 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: destroyed on impact with the building. And I just it's 185 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: just one of those peculiar things that I can't explain, right. 186 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: But anyway, that was the life on nine to eleven 187 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: with the chairman of the George Chiefs. You know, I 188 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: was there. I was a young man. I was twenty one, 189 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: and my dad comes in the room. He's like, hey, 190 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: the first tower got hit, turned the TV on. We 191 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: were watching that, and we were just watching that. My 192 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: mom was upstairs, my wife at the time, my girlfriend 193 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: was in the room, and I had just gotten out 194 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: of the Air Force. My dad was just a retired 195 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: SF guy. He's like, let's watch this. So we're watching it, 196 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: and then a second one went in and at that 197 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: time he looked at me. He said the same thing 198 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: that you thought is that's two strikes. That's an attack. 199 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: And then he just looked at me and he said 200 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: we're under attack, and I was like, oh, wow, Dad 201 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: never really talks like that. Yeah, it was just very chilly, 202 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: and that puzzles me about the whole situation and where 203 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: we're at today. And there's been many attacks on the 204 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: World Trade Center previously to that one. That one was 205 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: the one that stabbed it in the heart, you know. 206 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: In the ninety three there was the underground right you know, 207 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: that did kill people, you know, sadly, but just didn't 208 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: do the damage. They were looking for that collateral damage. 209 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: And so I mean it changed the world, right, the economy, 210 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: the banking world, the industry. Everybody was all of a sudden, 211 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: let's see your books. They're like, oh, oh, it's all 212 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: in the Trade Center right right now. And I mean, 213 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: this is one of those historic moments which you know, 214 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: tend to come around every ten or twenty years. I 215 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: think before nine to eleven. The last such sort of 216 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: pivotal moment in my career was to fall to Berlin Wall, 217 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: right right, So you had the end of the Cold War, 218 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: the fall to Berlin Wall two years later, the breakup 219 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: of the Soviet Union in ninety one. That was one 220 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: of these pivotal moments right then for me. The next 221 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: one was nine to eleven, right, So ten years later, 222 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, and I gotta tell you, even 223 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: as we're recording this podcast, I think we're in the 224 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 1: midst of another and that is the war in Ukraine. 225 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 1: I think that the Russian invasion of Ukraine a year ago, 226 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: so February of twenty two, will in time prove to 227 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: be as as eventful as pivotal as those previous two. 228 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: So once every ten or twenty years, you know, we 229 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: get an inflection point, a pivotal point like this, right. 230 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: And so when that did go on, when Russia did 231 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: invade Crimea in twenty fourteen, when the airliners were getting 232 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: shot down by their weaponry, uh, you know, I supposedly 233 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: saying stay out of our airspace. Okay, commercial airliners, just 234 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: stay out of our airspace? Is the threat that comes 235 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: back from the leadership over there at the time, who's 236 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: still a leader of it today. It's like, why are 237 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 1: we I mean, I'd rather be handled right now over 238 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: there before it comes over here. We don't want it here. 239 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: It's too late. If it comes here to the US, 240 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: we need to handle it right now. And I feel 241 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: just you know, I don't know, how do you feel 242 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: about that? Well, I think, look, we're going to feel 243 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: the impacts of Ukraine even if the fighting remains contained 244 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: inside Ukraine. Right, So we're feeling this by way of 245 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: global inflation. The global energy market for gas and oil 246 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: is being re engineered to cut off Russia at least 247 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: from at least Russia's export of oil and gas of 248 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: Western Europe. That's having a major impact on energy prices 249 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: and energy flows and so forth. You know, if you 250 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: are a country that imports grain or fertilizer, the war 251 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: Ukraine's having a major impact on on your livelihood because 252 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: Western Russia and Eastern Ukraine is really the bread basket 253 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: of Europe and has for generations provided the grain and 254 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: the fertilizer that has fed much of the global South. 255 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: So think the Middle East and Africa and so forth. Right, So, look, 256 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: these effects. You can't contain the effects of Ukraine in Ukraine, 257 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: much like you couldn't contain the effects of nine to eleven, 258 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: and you could not contain the effects of the fall 259 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: of the the Berlin Wall. So these inflection points, these historic moments, 260 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: have a way of sort of propagating ripple effects or 261 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: aftershocks that will be global, so we can't escape this. 262 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: But I do agree with your point that, Look, it's 263 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: I think we have a responsibility to support the Ukrainians 264 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: in part because of these global effects, but also in 265 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: part because it's the right thing to do every nation. 266 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: If you go back to the UN Charter nineteen forty five, 267 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: every nation has a right to defend itself, and the 268 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: UN member states acknowledge that they have a right to 269 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: support those who are defending themselves. And so I think 270 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: even all the way back to the UN Charter, there's 271 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: a mandate for us to do what we can to 272 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: help the Ukrainians defend themselves. And how we do on 273 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: this and how it turns out, which is, you know, 274 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: not really the purpose of our talk today, but well 275 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: it turns out, how it turns out will affect us 276 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: as Americans. I completely agree. Look, it really comes down 277 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: to two alternative views of how the world works. Right 278 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: does it work On the one hand, in the model 279 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: of nation states, meaning that nations groups of people can 280 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: organize into states with certain responsibilities and privileges, privileges like 281 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: territorial integrity. In other words, your territory is your territory, 282 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: and somebody else can't seize it. Right, national sovereignty, meaning 283 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: that that nation on that territory can take its own 284 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: decisions about the nature of its government, its laws and 285 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: culture and so forth. Right. So that's kind of one model, 286 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: the nation state model. The competing models is the model 287 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: of empires, right, which essentially says the strong will do 288 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: whatever they like in their neighborhoods, and they will inevitably 289 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: seek to expand their territory. And what Putin has declared publicly, 290 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: I mean we should just listen to him, right, yeah, yeah, 291 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: he's declared publicly that Ukraine and other nation states on 292 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: the priory of Russia should be part of Russia, should 293 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: be controlled by Russia, should be dominated, yes, and he 294 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, he cites as his models for this, Peter 295 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: the Great, Catherine the Great, I'm of the great Russian empires. 296 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: So as I look back over last hundred years, right, 297 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: much of the fight, much of the global struggle, was 298 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: between these two models. So World War One was about empires, right. 299 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: World War two was about empires, the Japanese Empire, the 300 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: German empire. Right. The Cold War was essentially about empire 301 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: and the imperial reach of the Soviet Union. Right, and 302 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: so this is familiar, right, this should feel familiar to 303 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: us that this is an old, continuing fight between these 304 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: two models nation states on the one hand and empires 305 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: on the other. And what it really comes down to 306 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: is how do we want to live. Do we want 307 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: to live in a world where empires can dictate and 308 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: nation states are always at risk, or do we want 309 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: to live on the other hand, with the basic rules 310 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: of the road organized around nation states. That's fundamentally what 311 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: Ukraine is about. Ukraine would like to be just left 312 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: alone own and be a sovereign nation with its own 313 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: integrity and like, you know, we'll pump Russia's oil through 314 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: our country to Europe, no problem, Like there was no problem. 315 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: There was no there was no provoked message sent, there 316 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: was no them rattling any sabers like don't you dare, 317 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: don't you dare from Ukraine to Russia. It was the opposite. 318 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: And it has just progressed and progressed, and you know, 319 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: they want to annex all these different lands and say 320 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: now it's my turf. But but that's not how Ukraine 321 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: entered into the treaties with that being your turf. Yeah, 322 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: that's right. I mean Ukraine has been a sovereign state 323 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: since the Soviet Union broke up, so for what thirty years, 324 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: it's remembered editions, it's got an elected government, it has 325 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: its own economy, and has its own sort of national 326 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: instincts and culture and so forth. And they're not exactly 327 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: the same as Russian. So the Ukranians see themselves as 328 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: a sovereign state, and that's how we the United States. 329 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: But I see them that way. Look, the United Nations 330 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,639 Speaker 1: two weeks had a vote two weeks ago had a 331 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: vote among the one hundred and ninety members of the 332 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: United Nations. All but in the vote, which was essentially, 333 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: should we condemn Russia for the attack? Right? All but 334 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: seven of the one hundred and ninety some said either 335 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: said yes, we condemn, or we abstained. Some thirty or 336 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: forty abstained from the vote because they didn't want to 337 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: irritate Russia. Right, But the overwhelming majority of the members 338 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: of the United Nations said this is wrong and this 339 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: is not the model we want to live with. So 340 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: I think it's pretty interesting, and I think that, you know, 341 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: back to our original point. I think February twenty fourth, 342 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: the date of the invasion last year twenty twenty two 343 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: will eventually reside alongside September eleventh, two thousand and one 344 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: and November ninth, nineteen eighty nine, when the Berlin Wall 345 00:20:54,520 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: fell as historical impactful, inflection points, or pivotal moment. I'm 346 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: usually a pretty impartial individual, but I could see that. 347 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: You know, over there, there's thousands of people being shelled 348 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: with these rockets and SuperSonics coming in and trying to 349 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: be deflected by some type of defense system that they 350 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: are that they have, but they're still coming through, and 351 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: these people are in their homes and they're just sleeping. 352 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: It's just, hey, you know, I get war as hell, 353 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: but when you're just doing this one sided situation, it's 354 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: not really You're just a bully. It's awful. It's awful. 355 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: There's no it's blatant imperialism, and we shouldn't put up 356 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: with it. I hope that my listeners are of the 357 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: same understanding too, and I don't want to put up 358 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: with it. I want to be able to have this 359 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: podcast and be able to talk with my guests like 360 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: Doug and have these kinds of conversations without being censored, right, 361 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: and not having to be fear being put into a 362 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: political prison because I maybe offended somebody that's higher in 363 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: a government that than me and send suits to my door. 364 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 1: Who needs that? You know, at least in America we have, 365 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: you know, the right to elect anofficial to help guide 366 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: us with those rules of the road, all right, and 367 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: then and then if we don't like it, we can 368 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,959 Speaker 1: re elect them, reelect someone else, or try to you know, 369 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: stay vigilant in our own lanes in our own states. Okay, 370 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: So it really comes down to this, to your point 371 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: about rules of the road. What are the rules of 372 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: the road for the international community and are those rules 373 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: centered on the rights and responsibilities of nation states or 374 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: are thoose rules? Do those rules permit some states to 375 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: dominate others as in imperialism? So that's what's about, and 376 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: Americans need to understand that. I think, yeah, I agree, 377 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: and you know, just make sure that it's I'm trying 378 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: to put that out there. That's what we're all about 379 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 1: today on this. So you know, I'm a Cold War 380 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: child board in seventy seven, you know, raised in a 381 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: warsaw era with my father always show me little films 382 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: and little models of like tanks and RPGs as a 383 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: little kid in his office. You know, I'll tell you 384 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: there's a guy in the army or gal who gets 385 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: to make models and like little trees and shrubs and 386 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: like spray paint them, and they have a rank, and 387 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: that's a job. If you're looking to join the military, 388 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: there are many options for you to go out there. 389 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: This is not a paid sponsorship from anybody other than 390 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: the American flag waving saying if you feel like you 391 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: want to join the military, go talk to a local 392 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: National Guard recruiter, Go talk to a local career Advancement 393 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: Army career recruiter and say, hey, you know, I think 394 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: I got what it takes. Can you test me? And 395 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: they'll give you a test and they'll test you, and 396 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: if you got what it takes, go after it and 397 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: be the one that you know. To your listeners, you 398 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: know that that's the right message. And it's also you 399 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: know you don't have to go You have to join 400 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: the military with the idea that you're going to stay 401 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: there forever, I mean a small minority, stay for twenty years. Sure, 402 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:02,719 Speaker 1: you know, for your younger listeners, it's worth considering giving 403 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: something back to America for three or four years. And 404 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: by the way, in those three or four years of 405 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: service and whatever service you pick, or the National Guard, 406 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, right, you're going to pick up skills 407 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: and you're going to build your resume and you'll be 408 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: more employable after those three or four years. Then you 409 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: were coming right out of school, whether it's high school 410 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: or college. So think about that. It's not a bad 411 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: way to transition into sort of adult life. And you 412 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: get the added benefit of contributing to the country, to 413 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: our country in the meantime. So it's really worth thinking about. Yeah, 414 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: and it's a whole sense of pride when you do 415 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: it yourself. You know, if it's conscriptions and it's a 416 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: fourth situation of a draft, you're not going to be 417 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: too happy if you have to go and do this 418 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: job no matter what. But if you just happen to say, 419 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, I want to give back and take the 420 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: choice and choose yoursel health and pick your own destiny 421 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: like most things in life. Right, hour of choice. Right, 422 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: And you know, our force today nobody gets drafted. It's 423 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: an all volunteer force. One hundred percent of the nearly 424 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: two million total Americans who serve in some capacity in 425 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: the military are volunteers, so for all of them, they're 426 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 1: going to get the benefit of your point, which is 427 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: I made this choice, and this is you know, this 428 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: is what I've wanted to do, and again, you don't 429 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: have to do it forever. It also makes you want 430 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: to be there because you chose it. You're like, hey, yeah, okay, 431 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: every single day, right, but you know that's life, right. 432 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: I mean, no matter where you work or whatever you 433 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: take on, you know, every day is you know, not 434 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: the best day of your life. Let's bring that full 435 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: circle to you then. So your ranger, right, I am. Well, look, 436 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: there's a difference, of course in the Army, right between 437 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: being ranger qualified, which means you wear the tab on 438 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: your on your recial right and serving in a ranger regiment. 439 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: So I am arranger qualified. I went to went and 440 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: graduated from ranger school, but as an armor officer, not 441 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: an infantry officer. I didn't serve in the ranger regiment. 442 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: Guess that's mechanized, right. So you're after, yeah, that's awesome. Okay, 443 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: so you're at a second cavalry, is that? Yeah? So 444 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: when I graduated from West Point, my first assignment was 445 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: in the second Army Cavalry regiment. At that time, the 446 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: army had three of these regiments, and they were designed 447 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: to be the eyes and ears, the reconnaissance unit in 448 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: front of an army corps. Right, So if you think 449 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: an army corps is a collection of army divisions, so 450 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: three to five army divisions. One regiment served as sort 451 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: of the scouts, if you will, in front of an 452 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: army corps. And the regiment that I went to served 453 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: in front of seventh US Corps, which was in Germany 454 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: and the peak of the Cold War in those days. 455 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: I signed into this unit in nineteen seventy six, the 456 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: year before you were born, and this unit was serving 457 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: on border duty between East Germany, West Germany and West 458 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: Germany and Cechoslovakia, so along the Iron Curtain essentially really 459 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: where it had ended up in the lead as the 460 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: lead unit in Patton's third Army when the war stopped 461 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty five. So where the war stopped, the 462 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: lines were drawn on the map, and this unit had 463 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: stayed in place from forty five for you know, thirty 464 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 1: years until I got there, and all the way until 465 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: the fall Bluin Wall when Germany a year later became 466 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: United and the Iron Curtain essentially collapsed. So yeah, so 467 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: I went right to this unit. It was fantastic. It 468 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: was just a great unit. We had an active, everyday 469 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: mission along the border. We were the first to receive 470 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: in Germany all the most modern equipment, so the first 471 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: to receive the Bradley Fighting vehicle, the first to receive 472 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: the Abrahams tanks and so forth, which really always reminded 473 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: us that our mission was important because we took that 474 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: first receipt of a new equipment as a signal that 475 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: we were important to the army, right, and so it 476 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: was a wonderful place to grow up as a young author, right, 477 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: and you were important to the army and obviously to 478 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: the world. Into the nation, I mean, I mean, look, 479 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: batter up, okay, get in the batting deck, you know, 480 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: get on you're you're ready to go. You got the 481 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: Abrahams and the Bradley Fighting vehicle. And how many troops 482 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: does the Bradley Fighting vehicle hold inside of it? There's 483 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: got two configurations, right, There's a scout configuration, which is 484 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: a crew of five, right, so driver, gunner, and vehicle 485 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: commander and then two scouts that come out the back, 486 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: two dismounted scouts and then this basically the same vehicle 487 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: if it's configured for infantry of dismounts an infantry squad 488 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: out the back. So the answer your question is somewhere 489 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: between five and sort of ten, ten or twelve. That's 490 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: what's inside of it. Yeah, yeah, which of the two 491 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: missions it's configured for, right, Is it a reconnaissance scouting 492 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: vehicle or is it an infantry fighting book And they're 493 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: always communicating with each other once they deploy out of 494 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: the back and that they have to go into check 495 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: a house, they're always like talking constantly with each other, 496 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: letting it everybody know what's going on. Yeah, the dismounts 497 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: can talk to the vehicle, and that's important because the vehicle, 498 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: the Bradley, has significant direct fire capability twenty five millimeter 499 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: cannon on it, and it's got a seven six two 500 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: machine gun on it and ultimately a toe missile launcher 501 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: as well, so it can provide significant fire support to 502 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: the dismounting infantry, which is the whole idea, right, as 503 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: long as they stick there and protect it from any 504 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: sticky bobs. Yeah, don't eat those sticky bombs. So when 505 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: you're talking about this new book that you have coming out, 506 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: and so the name of So I have a copy 507 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: here for you. So it's called Handoff. Yes, Yeah, it's 508 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: a little imposing, right, It's a small book. It's like 509 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: seven hundred pages. But here's the basic idea of this book. 510 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: So Steve Hadley, who was President George W. Bush's second 511 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: national security advisor, so for the second four years of 512 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: the bush eight year term, right, Hadley was a national 513 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: security advisor. For the last eighteen months of that period, 514 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: I was Steve's deputy, focused on Iraq and of Campstown. Right. 515 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: So that's kind of the set because of the term 516 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: limits being that the president would only serve two terms. 517 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: Bush in two thousand and eight knew that he wasn't 518 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: going to be president after the election. Right, the election 519 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: was being waged between the two candidates, Obama and McCain, 520 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: and that with process was going on inside the White 521 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: House while the campaign was going on outside the White House. 522 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: Inside the White House, we were getting ready to hand 523 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: off the name of the book cand Off, right, And 524 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: we did this handoff by way of drafting something like 525 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: thirty memoranda focused on either geographical issues or functional issues 526 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: that we knew the new administration our successors would have 527 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: to deal with on the afternoon of inauguration day, whoever 528 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: is president was going to own these thirty issues. Right, 529 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: So we thought and Steve had they actually shepherded or 530 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: led this process. He thought, Look, the responsible way to 531 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: do this is to have the current team in the 532 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: White House, right, a memo on each of these thirty topics. 533 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: So for me, the Iraq War, the war in Afghanistan. Right, 534 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: provide supporting documents, annexes and so forth, Right, and bundle 535 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: these all and sort of large government three ring binders, right, 536 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: all abulated by issues, of course, and whoever wins the election, right, 537 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: we will deliver these binders. Staff. Yeah, and here's congratulations. 538 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: You're the new team. Now let's get to work. And 539 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: here and then we offered on Iraq and Afghanistan my 540 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: two memos. We offered briefings to the new team. So 541 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: once President Obama or President elect Obama wins the election, 542 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: so between election day and early November and January twentieth, 543 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,479 Speaker 1: inauguration day, you've got those several months of transition. So 544 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: Bush is still president during that transition time, but the 545 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: Obama team is standing up right, people being named and 546 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: cabinet officers are being nominated, and all that's happening, right, 547 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: we offered to not only provide these binders, these transition memos, 548 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,959 Speaker 1: but also to brief in person the income team. And 549 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: so these memos actually formed the substance of the handoff 550 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: between one administration and the other. So now, so that 551 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: all took place at the end of two thousand and 552 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: eight and two thousand and nine seems respectful. If I 553 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: can just say that, just seems respectful. What you guys 554 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: do a very responsible way to do transitions. It really is. 555 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: And I applauded. Why now do we publish this book? Well, 556 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: the idea was hatched a couple of years ago that 557 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: what if we went back and looked at those thirty memos, 558 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: all of which are classified. So, but what if we 559 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: considered asking President Bush to declassify these thirty memos and 560 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: then go back to the authors of the memos. Find them. 561 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: They're all over the country, right, get a hold of 562 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: these folks and ask them to reflect on what they 563 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: wrote in two thousand and eight, and essentially ask the questions, 564 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: what did we get right and what did we get wrong? 565 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: So what you see in the book are I don't know, 566 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: I keep saying thirty, but roughly thirty chapters that take 567 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:15,720 Speaker 1: everything from the Five against AIDS to the war in Iraq. 568 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: Right features at the start a declassified memo. It is 569 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: the actual memo out of the archives that George Bush 570 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: himself declassified. Right, So you actually see that declassified memos, 571 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: and those memos themselves are historical documents. So it really 572 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: kind of interesting. It was. It was interesting to me 573 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: because of course I don't have a copy of the memo. 574 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: It's classified, so what it was declassified it was. It 575 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: was it was kind of intriguing to go back and 576 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: reading and say, you know, personally, what did we get 577 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: right and what did we get wrong? But then behind 578 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: each of these thirty memos in the book is a 579 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: short chapter an assessment by the authors of the memos 580 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 1: of how did we do and what proved right? What 581 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: did we get right, and what did we get not 582 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: so right? So it's it's also a very interesting rod 583 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,720 Speaker 1: It's a very interesting sort of look in the mirror 584 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: in introspection, an honest effort to assess how we did 585 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: back in two thousand and eight. I found the project 586 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: kind of cool in the sense that it was an 587 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: attempt to honestly look at something that we could have 588 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: just left classified. Right. You know the historians that unpacked 589 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: this twenty or thirty years from now and they'd say, well, 590 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: isn't this interesting? But this was a very deliberate and 591 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: I think a very responsible effort led by Steve Hadley 592 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: and supported by the president. I mean it's the president 593 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: was personally involved in this, right and so and so 594 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 1: President Bush is basically just saying, hey, you know, I'm 595 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: still around, and I'm okay with this being you know, 596 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: talked about, and let's look at where I screwed up. 597 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: If I screwed up, however that was and or what 598 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 1: I did. Very much like the the original transition memos, 599 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: which I think were a responsible effort to hand off 600 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: one administration to another, Right, this book is a very 601 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: responsible or honest way to say how did we do? 602 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: To look in the mirror and say how did we 603 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: do it? And that honesty, that sort of willingness to 604 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: be introspective self assessment sports at all says a lot 605 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: about the people about the president, but also about the 606 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: people who staffed him. So I found it it was 607 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,399 Speaker 1: first of all, it was a lot of fun after 608 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: these years, right to go back and reconnect with the 609 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: others who are in the reunion tour. That was it. 610 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned that just as the book was 611 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: released a couple of weeks there ago, President Bush and 612 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: Missus Bush came to Washington and held the reception for 613 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: all of us who contributed to the book. So that 614 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: reception was a reunion. I saw people that I hadn't 615 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: seen in a decade, right, So it was a lot 616 00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: of fun friendships that has been built in your trenches 617 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: in that side of governing and being in the military. 618 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: A friend of mine who was an officer when I 619 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 1: was enlisted in the Air Force, He's like, rats, it's 620 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: the same game. It's just different rank, It's just the 621 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: same game. There's someone above you. It's always just someone's 622 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: there like, hey, you got something to do, you know, 623 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: and you're just trying to get ranked. So bravo to 624 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: the lane that you lived in and that you maintained. 625 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: I also want to say, good job on transitioning from 626 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: one What am I trying to say one presidency to another? 627 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 1: Right you? Yeah, so this is curious, you know, in 628 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, as part of the George Bush 629 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: surge into a Rock. Right. This was the so Bush 630 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: committed the last thirty thousand available troops into a Rock 631 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: in an effort to quell the sectarian violence. So Sunni 632 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: on shea violence largely tearing a rack apartment right, right. 633 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: So in January two thou and seventy takes his decision, 634 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 1: makes the announcement to the nation, commits the last five 635 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: army brigades, two more marine battalions into the our province, 636 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: and a lot of your listeners will really might have 637 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 1: been part of the surge. As part of this, he 638 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,439 Speaker 1: decides he wants to add someone to his staff to 639 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: keep him personally informed of how the surge is going 640 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: through the last eighteen months of his administration. Because again 641 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: he knew he was going to leave you at the 642 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: end of his term. That someone turned out to be me, 643 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: quite sort of unexpectedly. So in July of oh seven, 644 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: I moved to the White House and I take up 645 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 1: this job of briefing him every morning on overnight events 646 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: in Iraq and Afghanistan. And I imagine to myself, well, 647 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: you know I can do anything. You know you can 648 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: do pushups. For eighteen months there's only eighteen months left 649 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: in this administration, and then I'll go back into the 650 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: Army right at that time of active duty three star, 651 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: and I'll go back in the army and pick up 652 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: where I left off. That all looked good through the 653 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 1: writing of these memos and through the election of Barack 654 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: Obama and all that until Obama names retired General Jim 655 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: Jones as his national security advice. I had worked with 656 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: Jim Jones at US European Command as a one star 657 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: when he was a four star US European Command Commander. 658 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: Jones is looking at the manning diagrams of the National 659 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,280 Speaker 1: Security Council staff and sees that my team and I 660 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: are staffing Iraq and Afghanistan. He says, wow, you know, 661 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 1: I've only got a couple of weeks. Inauguration is on 662 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: January twentieth. After the President takes the oath of office 663 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: on January twentieth, We're going to own these two wars. 664 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: By god, what are we going to do that afternoon? Right? 665 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: So he asks my team and me to stay. This 666 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 1: is not that peculiar because of the fifteen people on 667 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: my team for Iraq of Canstan, only one was a 668 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: political appointee. All the others were drawn from the national 669 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: security community, so CIA officers, USAID, State Department, military like me, 670 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: and so forth, so we were nonpartisan. They didn't know 671 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: we were republic under Democrats, so it was safe, right, 672 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: And of course he said, of course, will stay across 673 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,760 Speaker 1: the two administrations. I imagined that that extension, if you will, 674 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 1: into the Obama administration might be for four or six months, 675 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,399 Speaker 1: giving the president and General Jones time to find their 676 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: own team right, people who had not worked for his predecessor, 677 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: George Bush. It turns out I spent another four and 678 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: a half years working these issues for President Obama, and 679 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: that total of six years in the White House across 680 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: those two administrations was really the pinnacle of my career 681 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: and was an experience that I wouldn't trade for anything, 682 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,760 Speaker 1: and I doubt that you would ever change that. That's awesome, 683 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: what a great legacy that you're going to leave. Thanks 684 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: for taking on the call to do your job. We 685 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: appreciate you, and I know that a three star general, 686 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,720 Speaker 1: which is a lieutenant general, is not an easy accomplishment 687 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: to even get. You can only have so many generals 688 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 1: in the military at the same time, and they have 689 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: to all be within certain stars, and so you know, 690 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 1: you know, you know, you know, and I'll just throw 691 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: that out there, but you know, good job on what 692 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 1: you're doing today, and I hope that you're super successful 693 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,879 Speaker 1: moving forward and you know, continue being that. Thanks you, look, rat, 694 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: thanks to you for taking on this initiative too. You 695 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: know you wouldn't have to do this, but this is 696 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: this podcast. In your efforts, these kinds of conversations, right, 697 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: are important ways to connect us to your community as well, right, 698 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: And so that's an important dialogue. I know many of 699 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,839 Speaker 1: your listeners or veterans probably of the wars in Iraq 700 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: and Afghanistan and sometimes Cold warriors as well, I suspect. 701 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: So look, we're all part of the same community. We 702 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: may not have always perfect alignment with our politics, but 703 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: at the bottom line, we all are Americans. And whether 704 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 1: you were in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, 705 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: our active duty or reserve, on your uniform it said 706 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,839 Speaker 1: US right, So US aren't that US Air Force? Right? 707 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: And that's the part that I think you unite. So 708 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: I plugged your effort to just connect to other veterans 709 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: and so forth and try to have these kinds of conversations, 710 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: So thank you. You're very welcome, and with that, I'm 711 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,640 Speaker 1: going to say it's been wonderful to have you on 712 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: and if we have any other style of conversation to 713 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: having the future, I'd love to have back on as 714 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: a guest. It's been a pleasure to do it well. 715 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, and to my listener out there that's listening, 716 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you. If you got any questions or 717 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,839 Speaker 1: comments and you want to comment down below, go ahead 718 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: and drop them on whatever platform it is and I'll 719 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 1: try to reach out to you. And again, my name 720 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,879 Speaker 1: is Rad and thanks for Brandon Webb having me host 721 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 1: soft Red and I'll say peace, you've been listening to 722 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: self repreating