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Speaker 1: It's the Son of a Butch podcast. We come to

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Speaker 1: you every Wednesday. This week's guest doctor Sasho McKenzie. He

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Speaker 1: is doing some groundbreaking work in biomechanics. If you're a

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Speaker 1: golf nerd and you're trying to hit the golf ball further,

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Speaker 1: you're going to know who he is. You're going to

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Speaker 1: know his name, and we're going to talk about a

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Speaker 1: lot of really really cool stuff. He's someone that I

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Speaker 1: think is doing roundbreaking work to try and help golfers

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Speaker 1: get better. So very very excited for everyone to be

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Speaker 1: able to listen to him talk. The work he's done

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Speaker 1: with Matt Fitzpatrick to help him hit the golf ball

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Speaker 1: further is some really really cool stuff. But before we

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Speaker 1: dive in, I want to thank our partners at Rapsodo

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Speaker 1: chances you have to win. If you've been listening since

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Speaker 1: the beginning. You know that I'm a massive fan of

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Speaker 1: And now let's get to the interview with Sasho McKenzie.

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Speaker 1: My guest is doctor Sasho McKenzie. Sash I'm sure a

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Speaker 1: passive cross, but I mean You're one of the names

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Speaker 1: that in golf instruction in twenty twenty three we hear

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Speaker 1: a lot. So I'm really really excited to get a

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Speaker 1: chance to talk to you and kind of pick your

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Speaker 1: brain because with all of the the doctor degrees and

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Speaker 1: all of the biomechanics stuff you're you're a hell of

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Speaker 1: a lot smarter than I am, that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I'm not sure what I know an

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Speaker 2: awful lot about very little, That's what I like to say.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's a lot to unpack. I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about the work you've done with Matt Fitzpatrick

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Speaker 1: and the stack system, biomechanics and all of that, your

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Speaker 1: work with rap Sodo, the comb that you've helped them

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Speaker 1: come up with. But sajhow in twenty twenty three in

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Speaker 1: golf instruction and for all the golfers out there listening,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a very interesting time in instruction and

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Speaker 1: you're on the front lines of it as I am,

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Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people are. I mean,

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Speaker 1: on the lessons that I give. I feel like a

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Speaker 1: lot of people come in and they're hearing these buzzwords,

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Speaker 1: they're hearing this stuff on social media, and they're trying.

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Speaker 1: I see so many players that I'm the doctor and

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Speaker 1: they've got the broken wrist, and they've got the cast

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Speaker 1: on the wrist. And then you check the wrist and

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Speaker 1: the wrist isn't broken. And they said, well, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: somebody said, if your wrist is broken, you've got to

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Speaker 1: put a cast on it. And you're like, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: your wrist isn't broken. So and I think there's so

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Speaker 1: many players and people trying to play that hear all

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Speaker 1: of this information. So science versus sports, science versus art.

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Speaker 1: How do we balance that and how do you view

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Speaker 1: all of that?

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Speaker 2: Right? Well, I think you know, there are two big,

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Speaker 2: big areas in golf, speed and accuracy, you know, and

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Speaker 2: I believe that science needs to dominate speed. So no

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Speaker 2: one could ever really, in my opinion, maybe this is

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Speaker 2: a bit arrogant, could ever say anything to me about

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Speaker 2: the You know, there's very small wilmen for someone to

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Speaker 2: talk about the art of speed. You know, it's it's

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Speaker 2: hard physics. I know what the body can do to

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Speaker 2: generate speed. It's just physics principles. And then you overlay

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Speaker 2: some biomechanics concepts on that. Accuracy on the other hand

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Speaker 2: there you even as a scientist, you're mostly forced to

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Speaker 2: listen or you should be listening to the folks that

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Speaker 2: have experienced You know that. That's I I think why

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Speaker 2: golf instruction right now is so interesting and maybe you

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Speaker 2: always will be because you're I say this a lot.

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Speaker 2: I spend a lot of time looking for research that

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Speaker 2: discusses the repeatability of a movement, not just in golf,

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Speaker 2: but could be typing a keyboard, it could be throwing

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Speaker 2: a dart. And to date, I'm not aware of any

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Speaker 2: study that said this way of moving is more repeatable

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Speaker 2: from a human perspective than this other way of moving.

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Speaker 2: So that means that the instructor on the lesson t

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Speaker 2: who's given two thousand lessons has you know, I should

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Speaker 2: listen to them as a scientist. But at the same time,

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Speaker 2: you know I'm going to likely try to trump them

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Speaker 2: when it comes to maybe what's the best way to

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Speaker 2: increase speed? But you know, there's a whole lot of

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Speaker 2: middle ground in there. Those are my thoughts on the

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Speaker 2: art and science of it.

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Speaker 1: I saw a quote that you said that you think

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Speaker 1: there is a natural tendency for people with regards to

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Speaker 1: golf swings not only their own golf swings, but instructors

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Speaker 1: as well for aesthetics that we look towards what looks really,

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Speaker 1: really good. And it's something that you know, when people

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Speaker 1: ask me what my favorite golf swings are, I get

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Speaker 1: asked that question a lot. I always ask I always

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Speaker 1: ask the question from an esthetics standpoint or from a

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Speaker 1: function standpoint, because from and golf is not an aesthetics contest, right,

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Speaker 1: It's not figure skating, it's not gymnastics, because if it was,

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Speaker 1: people like Adam Scott and Nelly Korda, they'd win every

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Speaker 1: week because they'd get nine eights and nine nines from

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Speaker 1: the judges because the look of their golf swing is very,

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Speaker 1: very beautiful. It's very classic, it's very unencumbered by a

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Speaker 1: lot of idosyncrasies. But the kid that I'm drawing a

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Speaker 1: blanket is his name that led the Open Championship. After

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Speaker 1: the first day, I'm watching him hit balls like Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: he's six eight, he's got two hundred, he's cruising at

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Speaker 1: two hundred and you can see. And I was talking

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Speaker 1: to Dave Phillips about it over breakfast one morning and

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Speaker 1: he said, you know, the amazing thing is you can

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Speaker 1: see that that golf swing is one hundred percent based

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Speaker 1: on function. He grew up in South Africa, probably didn't

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Speaker 1: have a lot of access to a lot of modern

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Speaker 1: club fitting like we do here in the States, where

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Speaker 1: you can get club fit everywhere and there's tons of equipment.

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Speaker 1: So if you look at the way he swings the

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Speaker 1: golf club, it looked to me like it was functional.

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Speaker 1: He probably played with golf clubs that were too short

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Speaker 1: growing up. He's six eight, he had to try and

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Speaker 1: get back down to the ball tons of knee drive.

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Speaker 1: But what I think is really great social in today's age,

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Speaker 1: we know enough through people like yourself, through technology that

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Speaker 1: in the past we would somebody would change that. But

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Speaker 1: now through all the tech, through launch monitor data, through

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Speaker 1: biomechanics data, through three D you can you can quantify

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Speaker 1: if he can repeat it and if it works. And

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Speaker 1: I think we're seeing so many more golf swings like

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Speaker 1: that that are functional and they're not necessarily aesthetically the best,

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Speaker 1: but they work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, you know what. I contacted by a lot

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Speaker 2: of mini tour players to emphasize your point, and I

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Speaker 2: initially know nothing about their statistics. That's the first question

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Speaker 2: I want to know, is we'll send me what you know,

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Speaker 2: send me some of your stats. Let's see your strokes

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Speaker 2: gain and you know the four areas. Let's see, you know,

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Speaker 2: a track man session where I can look at your variability.

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Speaker 2: But I don't. They don't send me any of that stuff.

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Speaker 2: They say, well, you know, what do you see in

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Speaker 2: the swing? I have no idea, you know, you it

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Speaker 2: could be again, all these golf swings are you know,

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Speaker 2: to use your word functional enough. If you've got, you know,

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Speaker 2: to play at the elite level, If you've got one

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Speaker 2: hundred mile an hour clubhead speed with your seven iron

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Speaker 2: and you can hit the ball a certain height in

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Speaker 2: the air, there's a whole world of options for you

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Speaker 2: to swing a golf club. You know. If you're swinging

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Speaker 2: at at eighty six miles an hour, you know your

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Speaker 2: driver club at speeds one oh four, Well then we

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Speaker 2: definitely have to work on something, you know. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just showing me the aesthetics of your swing. That

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Speaker 2: means so little to me without some context. You know.

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Speaker 2: If I also, if I know that you're struggling with

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Speaker 2: a hook or a block or some particular systematic miss,

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Speaker 2: then I might be able to associate that with what

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Speaker 2: I'm seeing aesthetically. But yeah, it's crazy to me that

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Speaker 2: you could even think about fixing a swing without knowing

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Speaker 2: what the you know, the ball flight data is saying.

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Speaker 1: My dad's youngest brother, my uncle Billy. You know, my

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Speaker 1: dad when he was working with Tiger, and you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody was trying to swing like Tiger, get the club

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Speaker 1: in these beautiful positions, and Adam Scott, you know, did

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Speaker 1: a great job at kind of mimicking and I did that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I taught a lot of players in the

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Speaker 1: early two thousands to swing the club like Tiger and

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Speaker 1: it worked right, Get the club wider and things like that.

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Speaker 1: But I remember we were watching Tiger hit balls one

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Speaker 1: day and my uncle Billy was there and he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, the amazing thing is we're all trying to

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Speaker 1: have people swing like Adam Scott and Tiger Woods. Nobody

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Speaker 1: tries to get anybody to swing like Lee Trevino. Nobody

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Speaker 1: tries to get anybody to swing like Hailer when some

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Speaker 1: of these incredibly functional, somewhat idiosyncratic moves on what they did.

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Speaker 1: You live in the biomechanics world, and I saw a

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Speaker 1: quote that you said biomechanics and sports is about discovering

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Speaker 1: ways to perform a skill that moves our body fast

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Speaker 1: and accurately while preventing injury. Not everybody that's playing golf

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Speaker 1: that is a average golfer, And I always throw everybody

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Speaker 1: that isn't playing competitively on a regular basis as average golfers, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean everybody. The majority of people that play our

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Speaker 1: sport from a golf standpoint are regular everyday golfers. They're

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Speaker 1: not elite competitors, they're not elite performers. So when the

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Speaker 1: average fifteen to twenty handicapper listens to this podcast and

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Speaker 1: we're talking about biomechanics, I think it sometimes freaks people

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Speaker 1: out because one, they don't know what these terms are.

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Speaker 1: They don't know what it means for you. What's the

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Speaker 1: easiest way for everyone listening to have an understanding and

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Speaker 1: have a better relationship with the term biomechanics. What does

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Speaker 1: it mean to you and how can it help golfers?

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Speaker 2: Well, biomechanics is essentially physics, but applied to bones and

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Speaker 2: muscles specifically. Yeah, so, but you know, deals with the

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Speaker 2: forces that cause motion, and with a golfer, the forces

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Speaker 2: are originating from the muscles. Those muscles pull on bones

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Speaker 2: to create movement. And then there's a whole bunch of principles,

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Speaker 2: mechanical principles and physical laws, Newton's laws that we can

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Speaker 2: apply to understand better ways to swing a golf club.

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Speaker 1: I saw also in doing some you know, research for this,

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Speaker 1: two terms that that that you've used, external validity and

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Speaker 1: internal validity. What do those mean? And and and how

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Speaker 1: can we apply them to our own gain?

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Speaker 2: Sure? So I think they apply specifically to answering a question.

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Speaker 2: You know. So if you want to know, okay, I

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Speaker 2: would say, is anchoring a putter better for improving putting performance?

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Speaker 2: There's a question, okay, you know, so we've got some

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Speaker 2: biomechanics involved in that. If you anchor the putter, will

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Speaker 2: you put better? So if you're going to answer that

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Speaker 2: using science, you need to conduct an experiment. My philosophy

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Speaker 2: is first to maximize internal validity, so that means that

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Speaker 2: you're sure that whatever you discover in the experiment is

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Speaker 2: due to how you manipulated the experiment. And you would

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Speaker 2: manipulate the experiment by saying, let's have golfers putt normally

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Speaker 2: conventional with a regular you know, thirty four inch putter,

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Speaker 2: and then let's have them putt with a longer putter

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Speaker 2: where they anchor to their chest, or maybe we're comparing

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Speaker 2: a forearm lock putter, whatever it is. And if I

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Speaker 2: find a difference in performance, then I know it's due

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Speaker 2: to the differences in those putters. The short one versus

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Speaker 2: the anchor or the non anchored versus.

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Speaker 1: One one works better than the other.

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Speaker 2: In the conditions for the experiment, I have very high internalbility,

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Speaker 2: so there's no other possible explanation for why this was

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Speaker 2: a difference. So things I would do, I would do

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Speaker 2: it in a lap where we don't have inconsistent greens,

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Speaker 2: we don't have people moving in the background, we don't

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Speaker 2: have differences in temperature, and everything would be very balanced.

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Speaker 2: You know, you'd hit one put with this putter, another

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Speaker 2: put with this putter. You'd hit you know, eighteen with

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Speaker 2: one putter, eighteen with another putter. Your next participant in

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Speaker 2: it would be the reverse order where they would start with,

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Speaker 2: you know, the anchored versus the standard. But that has

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Speaker 2: low external validity. Someone would say, yeah, but they don't

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Speaker 2: have to read their own putt. They're not they don't

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Speaker 2: have the nerves of trying to sink a pot in

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Speaker 2: you know, a major championship. So then you'd want to

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Speaker 2: try and once you confirm that if everything's tight tight

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Speaker 2: experiment high internability there is a difference, then you see

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Speaker 2: if that difference is strong enough to exist in the

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Speaker 2: real world, you want to maximize external validity. Those studies

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Speaker 2: tend to be tougher to do, but you would try

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Speaker 2: and say, Okay, I'm going to try to get twenty

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Speaker 2: tour players to play half the season with an using

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Speaker 2: anchor and then they switch and twenty other ones to

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Speaker 2: do the reverse, and we track the results that would have.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a tough example to actually recreate, but

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Speaker 2: that would have high external validity. Right, You'd be like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: in the real world, does this show up?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think a lot of times golfers, and

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Speaker 1: specifically golfers that are trying to compete, are practicing almost

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Speaker 1: in a vacuum. Right. They're trying to practice in a

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Speaker 1: very very controlled environment, thinking that Okay, if I practice

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Speaker 1: enough in a very specific controlled environment, that is going

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Speaker 1: to have some sort of effect on the outcome. But

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Speaker 1: the problem is the game that we're playing from a

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Speaker 1: golf standpoint is so random, it's so all over the place,

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Speaker 1: and I think I see more people practicing, like you said,

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Speaker 1: they're trying to get this internal validity to where if

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Speaker 1: I repeat this movement pattern over and over and over

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Speaker 1: and over again in a very controlled space to where

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Speaker 1: the lies are flat, you know, the block practice versus

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Speaker 1: random practice. I think most golfers tend to stay in

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Speaker 1: block practice constantly, and the random practice is for them.

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Speaker 1: The random practice is the playing of the game, not

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Speaker 1: random practice. The random practice is okay, well, now I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I've worked on this for two weeks now. I mean, I, Sasha,

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Speaker 1: I have so many players that come and take lessons,

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Speaker 1: that are trying to compete on many tours and say, okay,

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Speaker 1: so would you suggest what I take, you know, six

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Speaker 1: months off. I'm like, no, you need to play next week.

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Speaker 1: You have to play. You can't do this in a laboratory.

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Speaker 1: You have to go play. So how how do you

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Speaker 1: balance those two between the internal validities where you're trying

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Speaker 1: to have a controlled environment, and then the external to

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Speaker 1: where you're saying, okay, let me go see if any

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Speaker 1: of this works. As you said, in the real world,

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Speaker 1: the real world is going and playing golf, putting scores

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Speaker 1: down on a scorecard, which has nothing to do with,

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Speaker 1: as you said, aesthetics or the way things look or

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Speaker 1: the way you've practiced. How can our listeners balance the

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Speaker 1: two because I feel in the twenty five years that

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Speaker 1: I've been, you know, giving lessons, I think most people

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Speaker 1: stay in the lab and they just want to get

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Speaker 1: back to the lab too, Right, if they play bad,

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Speaker 1: they just said, just get me back to the range,

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Speaker 1: Get me back to the range, get me back to

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Speaker 1: the range.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think we have there's kind of

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Speaker 2: two related concepts as the research concept of internal external validity,

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Speaker 2: which is important to answer question. But then we've got practicing,

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Speaker 2: like you mentioned block versus random like how much what

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Speaker 2: I would say, contextual interference do you have? And and

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Speaker 2: I think that the more elite you get at as skill,

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Speaker 2: there's a concept called challenge point, which I'm you know,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of a rough guide to how best to

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Speaker 2: optimize your practice. It's held up pretty well, and the

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Speaker 2: idea is that the better you get at a skill,

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Speaker 2: the more you should be challenged, the more you can

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Speaker 2: randomize that practice. So I was just in the backyard

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Speaker 2: this evening with my ten year old daughter Sienna, kind

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Speaker 2: of new to golf, and we're doing just pet practice

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Speaker 2: and twenty yard pitch shots, you know, trying to make

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Speaker 2: clean contacts. So I'm fluffing up. We got some nice

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Speaker 2: grass in the backyard. I'm fluffing up every single one.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're and in fact, if she'd go to

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Speaker 2: hit it and it kind of settled down, I'd fluff

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Speaker 2: it up because she's at the point where I she

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Speaker 2: could make what's really what I consider to be nice technique.

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Speaker 2: You know, watch golf better Tuson. I love this chipping stuff.

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Speaker 2: So in pitching, great technique, bad line means it's going

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Speaker 2: to be really tough for her to make good contact,

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Speaker 2: and then she'll think, well, that was a bad swing,

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Speaker 2: but it wasn't. It was just a really tough scenario.

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Speaker 2: So I think beginning golfers the block practice, the easy

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Speaker 2: condition set the challenge points, so you're succeeding enough where

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Speaker 2: you're reinforcing the good stuff you're doing. But then you

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Speaker 2: get closer to tour players, and I think tour players

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Speaker 2: spend too much time in block. You know, I think

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Speaker 2: do enough to build up some confidence, but just enough.

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Speaker 2: You know, hey, you want to hit four or five

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Speaker 2: footers in a row to make sure that your line

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Speaker 2: is good and check yourself in the mirror and whatever.

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Speaker 2: That's fine. You should be spending the majority of your time,

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Speaker 2: Like if I was working with a tour player and

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Speaker 2: they're pitching, you know, or practice, you should be just

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Speaker 2: dropping those things, you know, throw them on the ground,

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Speaker 2: whatever lie it ends up in. That's where you play

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Speaker 2: out of you know, and maybe even seeking out harder

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Speaker 2: lies and harder situations, you know. So I think that

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Speaker 2: in general, the more elite you get, the more practice

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Speaker 2: time should be spent kind of more random, more things

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Speaker 2: that make it that make it challenging, you know. That's that.

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Speaker 2: And if you have even an elite level, if you

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Speaker 2: have someone struggling, you know, maybe someone's getting a little

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Speaker 2: yippie with the chips, then hey, maybe spend a half

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Speaker 2: an hour hitting your pitch shots off tees, right, nothing

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Speaker 2: wrong with that. Or I got no problem with a

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Speaker 2: five inch hole for putting, right, If if you're struggling

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Speaker 2: with that and you need to build some confidence, hitting

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Speaker 2: eight foot putts with a five inch hole is great.

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Speaker 2: Whereas someone like Aaron Baddeley. He could probably spend a

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Speaker 2: lot of time putting at a three inch hole right

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Speaker 2: to be like, okay, let's make sure I'm really dialed

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Speaker 2: in here, and then he's the added benefit moving to

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Speaker 2: the course and the four and a quarter looks like

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Speaker 2: the Grand Canyons.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, you've got a lot of you know, accolades, you know,

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Speaker 1: for the work you've done with Matt Fitzpatrick. The stack system,

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Speaker 1: which I'm seeing so many players not only at the

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Speaker 1: tour level using, but so many juniors and so many

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Speaker 1: amateur golfers are coming in with that in their bag.

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Speaker 1: Talk to us about how you met Matt and what

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Speaker 1: the stack system is.

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Speaker 2: Sure, so I met Matt through his coach, Mike Walker.

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Speaker 2: So they came to the conclusion twenty eighteen that Matt

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Speaker 2: needed more speed. He wanted to be one of the

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Speaker 2: best players in the world. He wants to be the

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Speaker 2: best player in the world. He wants to win majors.

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Speaker 2: And funny enough, Claude, it was at the Masters, playing

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Speaker 2: you know, against guys like DJ DJ in particular whole eleven.

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Speaker 2: Matt's got a four iron in at Augusta, DJ's got

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Speaker 2: an eight iron. Well, you can't You can't do that

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Speaker 2: over four rounds and expect to beat some like DJ.

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Speaker 2: Like DJ's just as good at putting short game. So

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Speaker 2: in order to have any chance faster, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 2: you need you need, you need to get the speed up.

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Speaker 2: So they they gave me a call up, you know,

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Speaker 2: spend a few days with Matt. We worked on some

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Speaker 2: mechanics stuff, but really the gains came all the games

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Speaker 2: came from using the stack system. So it's it's basically

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Speaker 2: a weighted club, so you can you can do overload

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Speaker 2: and overspeed training with it. But the magic's in the app,

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Speaker 2: so it sets up customized programming for you. It tells

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Speaker 2: you exactly what way to load on rest timers pop up.

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Speaker 2: It tracks your records so you know it's program is

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Speaker 2: going to be different than someone else's program. And then

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Speaker 2: when you finish a program, it reanalyzes all the data

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Speaker 2: it's collected and it says, okay, this is the next

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Speaker 2: program that's best for you. And it also dynamically changes

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Speaker 2: during the program to figure out what your next workout

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Speaker 2: should be. And we put a lot of effort into

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Speaker 2: making the app very motivating and engaging. So I think

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Speaker 2: that that was a real change in the industry. We

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Speaker 2: have thirty thirty options that you commote on there. The

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Speaker 2: app is fund to interact with it. It's super motivating

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Speaker 2: and you know, we've got about twenty five thousand people

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Speaker 2: using it now, over twelve million swings, and we've got

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Speaker 2: a ton of data that's really just made the app

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Speaker 2: even better. Just we're constantly re evaluating the programming and

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Speaker 2: what it can do. For a guy like Fitzpatrick, he

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Speaker 2: was you know, ball speed was mid one sixties and

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Speaker 2: over the course of twenty twenty one at Pebble, he

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Speaker 2: went from mid one sixties to averaging one hundred and

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Speaker 2: eighty one at the Tour Championship. That was his average

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Speaker 2: driver speed for all drivers for that tournament. So you know,

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Speaker 2: that's just absolutely game changing. It was the reason why

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Speaker 2: he went, you know, the tipping point for why he

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Speaker 2: won the US Open. He was there was a par

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Speaker 2: four drivable par four on the Sunday last year. He

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Speaker 2: was the only player to drive the green. You know,

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Speaker 2: when eighty one ball speed, it was kind of cold

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Speaker 2: and windy, Rory didn't drive the green. You know that

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Speaker 2: all those long hitters. He was the guy that put

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Speaker 2: the ball in the green, So it was it was

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Speaker 2: really a tipping point for him to bring his career

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Speaker 2: to the next level.

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Speaker 1: What was the catalyst for you coming up with the

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Speaker 1: stack system to begin with? I mean, where talk me

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Speaker 1: through the thought process of Okay, obviously you do a

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Speaker 1: ton of research. You're you're not throwing darts at a

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Speaker 1: board and hoping that you hit the target. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's your your guess. I'm guessing. But with your background,

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Speaker 1: did these aren't you know, uneducated guesses? You're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: here's here's the information. So how did you go about

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Speaker 1: coming up with a way to attack gaining speed?

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Speaker 2: Sure, so I've got what I call a deterministic model

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Speaker 2: my mind. You know, things that you can do. Here's

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Speaker 2: Claude Harmon, what can we do to increase his club

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Speaker 2: at speed. We've got mechanics, We've got physical training, We've

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Speaker 2: got you know, maybe just actually your effort level. You know,

428
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: there's there's certain things that we can do, knobs that

429
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: we can move to increase your your clubhead speed and

430
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 2: physical training is a big knob and overload overspeed is

431
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 2: the biggest way to crank that knob, you know, So

432
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 2: you can get stronger in the gym, you get more flexible,

433
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 2: But the most efficient way to get faster is overload

434
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 2: and overspeed. And I took a fundamentally different approach from

435
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 2: what was currently out there, coming from my track and

436
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 2: field background. Tracking field is very scientific, and I was

437
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 2: a multi event athlete university meeting in track and field,

438
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: and we would do overload and overspeed training. If I

439
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: was running one hundred and eleven seconds hundred meters eleven

440
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: seconds and my training partner was running a hundred meters

441
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 2: in eleven seconds, but he was forty pounds heavier, we

442
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 2: would have very different sled weights that we would toe,

443
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: even though we were trying to run at a certain

444
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: the same kind of percentage, change in our speed or

445
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,239
Speaker 2: the tension in a bungee cord that was pulling us

446
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 2: would be different. So when I approached overload and overspeed,

447
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 2: I said the same thing. It wasn't you and I

448
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: are going to swing the same weight. We need to

449
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 2: swing a weight that's going to have a swing at

450
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 2: a certain percentage of our driver speed. So that's how

451
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 2: I approached the research and iteratively went through experiment after

452
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: experiment over years, saying, Okay, what weight's too heavy? What

453
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 2: weight you know, if we have you swinging at only

454
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 2: eighty five percent of your clubhead speeds, we got a

455
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 2: lot of weight on there. Do we still see gains?

456
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: No?

457
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 2: So we fine tune and to figure okay, well, what

458
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 2: percentage of your speed is too slow to see gains?

459
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 2: What about at the other end, what percentage of speed

460
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 2: is too fast? Before we stop seeing improvements in clubhead speed?

461
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: Should you mix overload and overspeed in the same program?

462
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,239
Speaker 2: Maybe she should do three months of overload and then

463
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 2: three months of overspeed. Should you do them in the

464
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 2: same session? So we iteratively started ticking these off. How

465
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 2: do I know if clubs programs should have more overload

466
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 2: in it or should it have more overspeed in it? Right?

467
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 2: So the research started getting more fine tuned to eventually

468
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: the point where I started applying it to tour players.

469
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 2: So Potterrick Harrington was one of the first people to

470
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: do it. I met with him at TPI twenty sixteen,

471
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 2: and at that time I was using lead tape on

472
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 2: the end of a driver shaft, you know, and maybe

473
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 2: wasn't the safest thing. And then started working with that

474
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 2: much of you know, Kevin Duffy used to work with

475
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 2: Tommy Fleetwood, longtime trainer of Loui us Days and Lee Westwood.

476
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: So he started using with his players. He started seeing results.

477
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: G Mac was another person I thought, you know what, Okay,

478
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 2: this is ready to develop into a system. And I

479
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 2: have some very good relationship with folks at Ping and

480
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: Marty Jertsen, who's who's awesome. He was kind of the

481
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 2: final you know, link in the chain. Well even more

482
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 2: so than that. It wouldn't have happened without him. But

483
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 2: he did some of this overload over speed stuff and

484
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: he went from one to twelve to mid one twenties

485
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 2: and ended up making the cut at beth Page Black

486
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: when the PGA champions there when Brooks, when Brooks won

487
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 2: of it. Yeah, so this, you know, this is an

488
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: engineer at Ping who's now an elite driver of the

489
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: golf ball in terms of speed at the PGA Tour level.

490
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: So he's like, hey, this really works, and he said, well,

491
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: you know what do you what do you need? What

492
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: do you need these design specs to be? So he

493
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 2: designed it and yeah, we've we've got this great product

494
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: and we brought in an awesome app person, the guy

495
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 2: that you know did a lot of the track Man

496
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: app so, yeah, fantastic.

497
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: I saw a quote that you said, the problem with

498
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: the U s g A and the r in A

499
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: with the distance issue is they can't legislate around the athlete.

500
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: And I saw Martin Slumbers at the at the Masters

501
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: this year. He was talking to my dad. My dad

502
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: was asking about the ball roll back and everything, and

503
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you said that you can't have speed without science,

504
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: it's not art. But what I don't really think people

505
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,959
Speaker 1: realize is hitting the golf ball far. There is a

506
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: skill to that, and the skill comes from understanding how

507
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: you do that right. And I've always said, so I'll

508
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: show that. I think it's I think it's incredibly naive

509
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: from the governing body standpoint. Everybody says the golf ball

510
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: goes too far, the golf ball goes too far, the

511
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: driver goes too far, the driver goes too far. I

512
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: was with Dustin Johnson h watching him hit balls today.

513
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: If it was to me, if it was the technology

514
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: and the technology alone, and I've been saying this for

515
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: a while, then I should be able to pick up

516
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: DJ's driver that he was driving with today, with the

517
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: shaft that he uses with the ball that he uses

518
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: and carry it three point fifteen three twenty in the

519
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: air like he can't. And if I pick up his driver,

520
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to carry it two fifteen two twenty in

521
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: the air because one, I don't have the body that

522
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: he's blessed with. But also I just think if it

523
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: was technology, if it was just the balls and the drivers,

524
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: then everybody would hit the golf ball the same distance.

525
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: Matt Fitzpatrick would have never had to go down the

526
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: stack system because he should be able to pick up

527
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: the same ball, the same driver that Rory's using and say, okay,

528
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: I can get all the same equipment, and if it

529
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: was just the equipment, it should go the same distance.

530
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: Right. Well, there's a whole host of issues with the

531
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: way the USCA and the RNA approached the concept. Is

532
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: it even a problem? That's I think fundamentally, what are

533
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: we fixing? So what I think they should have done

534
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: to start out was said, let's get specific, show me

535
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 2: some golf courses, and show me some holes on golf

536
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: courses where the ball is going too far, and then

537
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: you decide, okay, this is a problem. Now what do

538
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 2: we do to address that? Because the vast majority of

539
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: golfers on the vast majority of courses there clearly isn't

540
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: an issue because the USGA is also pushing at the

541
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: same time to get forward right right, So there's a

542
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: there's a fundamental issue there. And and then once you

543
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: decide on okay, let's take Saint Andrews, right, I think

544
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: that would have to be the flag I would assume

545
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: the flagship. Here's the course where the there's a big problem.

546
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: You know, well, I don't know the last few times

547
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: it's been at San Andrews. I thought we had great tournaments, right,

548
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 2: Like if you if you look at Cam Smith's win,

549
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: We've got Rory hunting him down. We've got Cameron Young

550
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: hunting him down. It was very exciting in my opinion.

551
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: Maybe some people thought that the scores were too low. Well,

552
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: the weather was really very mundane.

553
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: Golf is in it's an outdoor sport. So if you

554
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: give the best players the best condition with not a

555
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: lot of wind and not a lot of rain, they're

556
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: going to shoot low scores. And then you look at

557
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: what happened at the Senior Open Championship over the weekend

558
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: where you have these catastrophic wind conditions and plus five

559
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: plays off so and they've still got the same equipment

560
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: that the USGA and the RNA says goes too far.

561
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: They say the ball goes too far and the driver

562
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: goes too far. And guys are you know, nine over

563
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: and they're in the top five.

564
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: Yes. So my fundamental issue, and I think I could

565
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: you know, do a good job of proving this point,

566
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: is that in the USG had a hard time understanding

567
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 2: this when I tried to make the point is that

568
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: the limiting factor is is not club head speed and

569
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 2: ball speed factor is how far the ball is going

570
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: and so, and I tried to make this point in

571
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 2: a few ways. If you look at the average clubhead

572
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: speed on tour one hundred and fifteen miles per hour,

573
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 2: and even look at some of the faster guys swinging

574
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: in the you know, low to mid twenties, there's a

575
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 2: dozen guys at my course in Anigonish, Nova, Scotia that

576
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 2: easily have tour level clubhead speed, right and there are

577
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 2: thousands and thousands of them everywhere. But you never see

578
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: that in other professional sports. No one has the physical skills.

579
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: If you just go randomly to your local softball diamond

580
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: or you know, a slow pitcher. No one is throwing

581
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 2: ninety five mile an hour pitches. It's just not happening, right,

582
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: They're throwing eighty seventy five. So where I'm going with

583
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: this is that at the that we're really not meeting

584
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: the potential currently at the elite level in golf because

585
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 2: of how far the golf ball currently goes. It means

586
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: that hitting it four hundred yards is not going to

587
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 2: be optimal given the dispersion that's going to be associated

588
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: with that. So if you said, okay, Rory DJ Matt Fitzpatrick,

589
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 2: Tony Finnew will probably be the best example, and you go, okay,

590
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 2: here's a ball that if with your current swing speed

591
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: you're going to lose twenty yards overnight. Tony Finnew is

592
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: going to go from swing at one eighteen to one

593
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: twenty four and he's going to carry that ball exactly

594
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 2: where he's carrying it now. Rory's going to do the

595
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: same thing. Brian Harmon probably can't, right. But eventually then

596
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: the guy's coming the gord sergeants, the guy's coming up

597
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 2: through NCAA. That's who's going to be in there now.

598
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 2: Because they're just waiting, they just hope that the average

599
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: club at speed can move up to one twenty five.

600
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 2: It can't right now because of the distance the golf

601
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: ball does go at those speeds and the dispersion associated

602
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: with that. Right. So, so the PGA the USGA was

603
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: doing this research and making these assumptions based on the

604
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 2: current technology, not realizing that, yeah, well, what happens if

605
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: if we if we actually are now playing with this ball,

606
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: we'll club head speeds to stay the same. No, they'll

607
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 2: increase overnight. It'll be there'll be big jumps because guys

608
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 2: have that potential, and.

609
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: In order to get a different golf ball that doesn't

610
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: go as far, they're going to try and hit it

611
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: further to get it to go further.

612
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: Right, all of a sudden, it's still optimal from a

613
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: dispersion and distance perspective on the way courses are set

614
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 2: up to probably be around for most courses where the

615
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 2: average distance is right now, right, it may maybe a

616
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 2: little bit further, but you know, you you won't see

617
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: if you made a super hot golf ball right and

618
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 2: a crazy hot driver and you said all right, let's

619
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: go play Harbortown, you wouldn't You wouldn't see driving distance

620
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: go up and that there's a reason why guys still

621
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: pull threewood. You know on eighteen you're not going to

622
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 2: see driving distance increase one yard.

623
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: No. And the other thing is that I think that

624
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: some of the governing bodies, I think they're in my opinion,

625
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: they're very out of touch with modern athletes, right because

626
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: they're not modern athletes, right, they're country club players. They

627
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: played the golfer, So I don't think they understand how

628
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: elite modern golfers that play golf for a living, how

629
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: good they really are. And again that goes back to

630
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 1: my point because if it was just the technology, everybody

631
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: would hit and if it was just I mean, like

632
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: you said, Gordon Sergeant, the kid that was leading. There

633
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: are players that are playing that have over one twenty,

634
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: but they're not winning every single tournament. And Brian Harmon

635
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: still won a major two weeks ago, and he doesn't

636
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: have one hundred and twenty ball speed. He doesn't, I

637
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 1: mean or one eighty five ball speed in one hundred

638
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: and twenty mile per hoor clubhead speed. He doesn't come

639
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,919
Speaker 1: close to that. So do you think that there's a

640
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: push because the governing bodies are worried about golf courses.

641
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 1: Are they worried about the sport. I mean, they always

642
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: say it's becoming too easy, But I'm on two or

643
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: thirty weeks a year. The sport doesn't look any easier

644
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: to me today than it looked twenty five years ago.

645
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 2: No, And that's what I think. One of the reasons

646
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 2: why the PGA Tour was like, yeah, we're not going

647
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 2: to accept this is because people want to see better.

648
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: They want to see records. No one, you know, wants

649
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 2: to see players that can't play as you know as

650
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: well as somebody did ten years ago. No one wants

651
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 2: to see the basketball neck up to eleven feet, not

652
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 2: see any dunks. You know, I would be that wouldn't

653
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: be entertaining. And at the same time, one of their

654
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 2: big their biggest mandate, I think is grow the game.

655
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 2: And if you make it harder, that's not going to

656
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: grow the game. There's a reason why pickleball, you know,

657
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: I've said this a few times is taking off because

658
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: tennis is quite hard relative to pickleball. Pickleball has found

659
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: the sweet spot where it's like, hey, we can have rallies.

660
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: You know, I can pick up this game. Figured it

661
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 2: out in a couple of days and I can have

662
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 2: some rallies and have some fun. Tennis is pretty hard,

663
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: you know. Now, Is pickleball going to replace tennis at

664
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 2: the league level, No, probably not. But if you're trying

665
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: to get more people to play golf, don't make it harder.

666
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 2: You know, on the home course that I play in

667
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,720
Speaker 2: any Innish, there's a bunker that's too ten to carry,

668
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 2: and probably fifteen percent of our membership can carry it.

669
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,959
Speaker 2: You know, no one, no one needs hit the ball shorter,

670
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: and there's no way. That's another flaw with having the

671
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 2: change and the model local rule MOTI local rule is

672
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 2: it would eventually trickle down to everybody. You know, there's

673
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: there's no way for that not to happen. Tour players

674
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: play the ball wn the NC double players are going

675
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 2: to play it. If they're playing it at the you know,

676
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 2: the US Amateur, then the guys are gonna want to

677
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: play it before they go to the US Amateur, which

678
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 2: means it's going to be in club championships, which means

679
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 2: if it's in NC DOUBLEA, then the kids in high

680
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 2: school have to play it, and then then their local

681
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: junior tours are gonna have to play it. It's just

682
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: there's no way it stays just at the elite level.

683
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: And I listened to, you know, the governing bodies talk

684
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: about how easy the game is. But when I'm not

685
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 1: on the road at tour events, I give lessons eight

686
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: hours a day. I still give lessons to regular handicapped golfers.

687
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: I don't see any of these people not coming and

688
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: taking lessons because the game's just so easy, now, right,

689
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: I still you know, I've been teaching golf most of

690
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: my adult life. I still see the average golfer struggle

691
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: to get a three wood in the air. I still

692
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: see the average golfer struggle to take a divot with

693
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: anything past day nine iron. I still see the average

694
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: golfer struggle with contact getting the golf ball airborne. Using

695
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: your tennis and pickleball analogy, I see a lot of

696
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: golfers that struggle to get from a tennis standpoint, they

697
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: struggle to get the ball over the net consistently. You know,

698
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 1: Novak Djokovic, there's a term in tennis called unforced errors.

699
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: If he has a lot of unforced errors, he can't

700
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: out winner the unforced errors, right, no matter how great

701
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: he is. And I still see the average golfer, the

702
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: regular everyday golfer having an enormous amount of unforced errors.

703
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: And there's I think this perception from the governing bodies

704
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: that the game is just so so easy and show

705
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: at the elite level, DJ's irons are unhittable. Wait, he's

706
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: got the smallest. The best players use the hardest equipment

707
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: to hit. They're not using the equipment that's going to

708
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: help them hit at forty yards further with their irons. Right,

709
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: most of the guys that are elite elite ball strikers

710
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: on the PGA tour are using equipment that is you know,

711
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: it's very difficult for regular people to hit these clubs

712
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: because the sweet space, the sweet spot is small. The

713
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: size of the clubs are small. I mean, Ricky Fowler

714
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: came out with said irons two years ago and they

715
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: I mean they look like thimbles. They were so hard

716
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: to hit. Yeah, I mean, my I've got a set

717
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: of my grandfather's irons that he played with in the

718
00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 1: forties and you know, the lofts on these versus the

719
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: loss on them today are very very different. Where do

720
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: you see do you where do you see distance in

721
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: ten years, five years, ten years? I mean, do you

722
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: think it continues, Because I've talked to Dave Phillips about this,

723
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 1: and he's been on the pod before, and he said

724
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: he thinks there's a rate of diminishing return with clubhead

725
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: speed and ball speed at the elite level. To whereas

726
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: you said, the car is just too fast to keep

727
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: on the road for the track that they want you

728
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: to drive it on. It's yeah, it could go three

729
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: it's a drag racer, but it has no ability to

730
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: have maneuverability and you can't keep it on the track.

731
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 1: Do you see speed gains continue to go up? And

732
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: do you see that we're going to get to a

733
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 1: plateau to where you're saying, Okay, if you go any

734
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: higher in speed, clubhead speed, and ball speed, it becomes

735
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:05,479
Speaker 1: very difficult to compete and play the sport the way

736
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 1: the sport is designed to be played.

737
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, because the limiting factor right now why club head

738
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 2: speed isn't higher is not because the players can't swing faster.

739
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 2: It's because of what happens at the distance is associated

740
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: with those clubhead speeds. The dispersion gets too large. So

741
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 2: I I mean, I would tackle this if it is

742
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: a problem through course design and there's clues all over

743
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: the place. You just have to if you just did

744
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 2: a search through shot link and you'd say, hey, where

745
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 2: are some long par fours where the yard where the

746
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 2: distance off the tee is below average? Right? Okay, we

747
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: got a four hundred and sixty yard part four, you know,

748
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 2: a little longer than average. Why is everybody in this

749
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 2: been short? Let's go see how this hole is designed,

750
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: you know, like things things like that, and depending on

751
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 2: the whole. I'm no golf course architect guru, but depending

752
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 2: on the whole, you have options to to to make.

753
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 2: If you're gonna hit it far, you have to be

754
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: super skilled. I would you should never be thinking of

755
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 2: this from a we want to prevent anybody from trying

756
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 2: to hit the ball far, like don't don't put like

757
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: you know at three hundred yards creaks you know that

758
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 2: are forty yards wide across the fairway. No, that that's

759
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: not the way to do it. I think if somebody

760
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: can go out there and shoot fifty four and hit

761
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 2: the ball three hundred and forty yards on a rope

762
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 2: every time, that's awesome. That that good for them. That's

763
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 2: what I want to see in golf. That is the

764
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: ultimate performance. So what you can do you know some

765
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 2: of the lines that Bryson started taking. Right. If you

766
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 2: don't want Bryson to go across six at six at BAYHILLI,

767
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 2: you know, you do something real easy doesn't ruin the

768
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: hole at all. You just plant a twenty foot pine

769
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 2: tree that's not even in view. It's just off to

770
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 2: the left right, just so that it's right. If you're like, hey,

771
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: I want people to go down this chute, no problem,

772
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 2: twenty foot pine tree. It's not near the t box.

773
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 2: But in order for you to get a driver up

774
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 2: twenty feet over the course of twenty yards, good luck. Right,

775
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 2: But it doesn't ruin the aesthetics of the hole. There's

776
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: lots of holes like that at you know, Augusta right

777
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: where you're forced to go down a chute or hey, hey,

778
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 2: if you're playing like a link style and the you know,

779
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 2: there's plenty of awesome links holes examples of this where

780
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 2: you don't want to have random pine trees. You fire

781
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 2: some gorse bushes, you know between two ninety and three

782
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 2: forty and a couple of pop bunkers. Hey, you want

783
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 2: to take the risk of going driver and if you

784
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 2: can put it down the fairway and avoid the gorse

785
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: and the bunkers. Good for you, but and you should

786
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 2: be rewarded for that skill. So I think there's there's

787
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 2: more intelligent ways to do it than if you perceive

788
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: there to be a problem than by just trying to

789
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 2: slow the ball down, which I don't think will solve

790
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 2: the problem at all. You would have to slow it

791
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 2: down a ridiculous amount. Not twenty yards, you'd have to

792
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 2: slow it down like fifty yards, and then you would

793
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 2: never see Brian Harmon, a guy like Brian Harmon when

794
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 2: the Open. You would basically say you can only play

795
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 2: this sport if you've got one thirty club at speed,

796
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: and there will be enough of those guys can who

797
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 2: can play golf with one thirty clubhead speed and hit

798
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 2: the ball three hundred yards with one hundred and thirty

799
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 2: mile hour clubs. That's the way it would eventually go,

800
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 2: which is not there they you know, USG and rn

801
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 2: A certainly doesn't want that to happen.

802
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: I don't think we talked about practice. You partnered with

803
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 1: Rapsoda with their new Launch monitor come up with their

804
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: version of the Combine twenty four shots. You know, talk

805
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: me through when you when a company says to you, Okay,

806
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: we want you to come up with this. Do you

807
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: approach it in the same way that we've talked about

808
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 1: from the speed standpoint? How did you come up with

809
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: what was what you felt was going to be really

810
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 1: advantageous for players to work on? From a combined standpoint?

811
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: I mean, there's other launch monitors out there that have

812
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: their version, but how did you come up with your

813
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: idea on Okay, how can we challenge people in a

814
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: combine environment with a launch monitor to help them perform

815
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: and get the most out of their practice and the

816
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:30,479
Speaker 1: most out of their game.

817
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I was really excited to do this because

818
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 2: I have the ways that I think are best to practice,

819
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 2: and I like practice too. There was a lot of

820
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 2: constraints in that I want practice to also be insightful

821
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: from an analytics standpoint, So not only are you maximizing

822
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: your improvement, but then the results you get you can

823
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 2: learn a lot about your game, and I want it

824
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 2: to be You know, if you look at the market

825
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 2: that Rep. Soto is targeting, there's going to be some

826
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: elite golfers, but the majority of them like, who's gonna

827
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: and they've got this the MLM two Pro has got

828
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 2: an awesome price point, so anybody who's serious about their game,

829
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 2: you know, on a budget, can go out and get

830
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: it and they can use it at their rings. That's

831
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 2: what I was thinking about. Okay, if you go to

832
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 2: the the people grinding it out at all the ranges

833
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: across you know, the United States, North Meyrioa, all over

834
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: the place that you go go get a typical bag

835
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: of balls. There's forty balls in there, okay, and you

836
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:32,399
Speaker 2: probably got forty minutes max. So you do some warm up,

837
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 2: so I wanted the combine to be thirty shots. There's

838
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 2: six balls of warm up right to get the cobwebs out,

839
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 2: and then you've got three targets. Two of them are

840
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: iron targets, so you can, you know, set the distance

841
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 2: somewhere between fifty yards and whatever your furthest iron goes.

842
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 2: You pick two targets, and then you always have a

843
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 2: driving target, so it's a very well rounded experience. You

844
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 2: hit two shots, you're hit in blocks of two, so

845
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 2: you go two shots to the short target first, right,

846
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 2: because you could go completely random and go one one, one,

847
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 2: but you don't want to be switching clubs all the time.

848
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 2: That's annoying, and everybody wants, at least, especially in practice,

849
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 2: can I get just let me hit one more, Let

850
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 2: me hit one right, I got hit one more. So

851
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 2: you hit them blocks of two. But then you go

852
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 2: through four rounds. You get eight shots at each at

853
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 2: each target, and that's really critical. Some people will say, well,

854
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 2: why not add more targets, Well, only three targets. You

855
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 2: need a certain number of shots at a target to

856
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: get meaningful statistics, So eight shots. With the variability of

857
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: someone who might be up to a twenty handicap, you

858
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 2: need at least eight to start to get insights on. Okay, well,

859
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: what is your average carry distance? What is your dispersion,

860
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 2: and we relate those to a handicap, So put a

861
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 2: lot of effort into being like, okay, this is your

862
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 2: dispersion at this particular distance. Then this is your handicap level.

863
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: So you can start say, well, I'm you know, you

864
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 2: know what your handicap is. In the course, I'm a ten,

865
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 2: but shoot to a six year target, I'm eighteen. Okay,

866
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 2: I got to work on that. And and then you know,

867
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 2: everybody wants to hit driver, so you've also got that

868
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 2: driving target where you could pick your driver or three

869
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 2: wood could be a hybrid, could be a driving iron

870
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 2: for that round. And what's cool is then you can

871
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: start to you know, there's the intelligence built into the

872
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 2: combine where if you pick out your first target, you

873
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 2: know your first combines fifty yards, one hundred yards, and

874
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 2: your driver, well that is going to say, hey, Claude,

875
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 2: you know what, we noticed that you hit these clubs

876
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 2: to those targets. We're going to suggest these different targets.

877
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 2: So we start to even out your bag. Hey, you

878
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 2: know what, you haven't hit any six irons yet, and

879
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 2: then we start to get information on gapping. Okay, now

880
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 2: that you know you've done five or six combines, but

881
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 2: now we know what your average distances with all these clubs,

882
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 2: so we could recommend, hey, you know what looks like

883
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: maybe you want to decrease the loft on your fifty

884
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 2: four because you've got a big gap between your fifty

885
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 2: four and your fifty eight as an example. And there's

886
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 2: all sorts of cool insights, so it's we're maximizing performance

887
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 2: but also getting a lot of insights in a tight

888
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 2: little combine that the majority of people could benefit from.

889
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 2: Tour player hitting twenty four balls in this combine is

890
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 2: going to learn a lot so well the high handicapper. Yeah.

891
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: And I think one of the great things, and one

892
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 1: of the reasons why I've partnered and do stuff with

893
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 1: the Rapsoda as well, is so much in golf the

894
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: tech has been at a price point that is, I

895
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: see these sixteen year old kids that you know, show

896
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: up for a golf lesson and they've got a track

897
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: man all and my dad got me a track man

898
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: for Christmas. I'm like, he basically just brought you a

899
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars car, right, I mean just I mean

900
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: the price point for a lot of the tech has

901
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:55,240
Speaker 1: been so prohibited that only the elite of the elite.

902
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 1: I mean. I teach a girl on the LPG, Marina

903
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: Alex And Marina is one on the LPGA. She played

904
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: on the Solheim Cup. And when I first started working

905
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: with her, we got some launch monitor, you know. I

906
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: put her on a launch monitor just to see what

907
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: she was doing. I was like, do you have your

908
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: own track man? She's like, I can't afford a track man, right,

909
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:16,320
Speaker 1: She's a professional athlete that was saying, listen, the price

910
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: point is just too prohibitive. So I think it's great

911
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: that we're starting to see some of the tech in

912
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,240
Speaker 1: golf that the best players in the world are using

913
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: start to come down so that everyday golfers who don't

914
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: have twenty thirty, fifteen thousand dollars to invest, there's ways

915
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: that they can use the same technology in the same

916
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 1: information that they see the best players in the world using.

917
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: And like you said, what I really like about the

918
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: combine is it's almost got some AI in it to

919
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,399
Speaker 1: where it's it's helping you as the player learn as

920
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 1: you go along based off of what it's seeing you do.

921
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:56,959
Speaker 1: And like you said, if you put enough data in,

922
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 1: it's going to start to see trends and kind of

923
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: see what you're doing. And I think that is just

924
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:08,439
Speaker 1: so so important for a fifteen handicapper saying, listen, maybe

925
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: you don't need to improve based maybe you don't have

926
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: the time to massively improve, but if you can just

927
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: have a better understanding as to what you do and

928
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 1: do what you do all the time, right, Okay, this

929
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: is how far you hit your nine iron. Rather than

930
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: try to hit your nine iron further, maybe you try

931
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: and make sure that you can hit your nine iron

932
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: at this baseline number all the time. And that's where

933
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: I think information for a lot of people listening is power,

934
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: because if you can just know what you do and

935
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:49,760
Speaker 1: not try and fundamentally change what you do and say, okay, listen,

936
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: I'm never going to be Rory McElroy. I'm never going

937
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: to be Scotti Scheffler. I am who I am, and

938
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 1: I'm a fifteen handicapper. Yeah I want to put better,

939
00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 1: Yeah I want to hit better. But if I can

940
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: get a really good understanding is to what I do

941
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: and how far I hit the golf ball. I mean,

942
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: DJ was hitting balls today. He was going back and

943
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 1: forth between trying out a different wedge, and you know,

944
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 1: I don't think people listening realize. I mean, he can

945
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: tell you within a yard of how far it went

946
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 1: without looking at the launch monitor. He can be within

947
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: one hundred RPMs of the spin it'll go. Yeah, that

948
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 1: one was a little bit off the toe, so that's

949
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: gonna go. And I think if the regular everyday golfer

950
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 1: just knew what they did, it would help them tremendously

951
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't have to make as many massive changes

952
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 1: as they think. If they could just have a better

953
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,399
Speaker 1: relationship with the truth of what they do.

954
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, I think that it provides eye opening information

955
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:52,720
Speaker 2: to most people when you realize that your nine iron

956
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 2: distance is not that one nine iron you flushed off

957
00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: the tee downwind. Yeah, where you're like, yeah, I can

958
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 2: hit my I can't hit my nine iron one point fifty.

959
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: But in the rhapsodal Combine is telling me that I'm

960
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 2: one forty two. Right, So if I've got if I've

961
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 2: got water to carry at one, I don't want fifty

962
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 2: percent of my shots any in the way I've been

963
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 2: a bullet iron, right. And it sets expectations too in

964
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 2: terms of dispersions. So you know, people think, Okay, I've

965
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 2: got eighty yards, I should have a birdie putt. But

966
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: you look at your eighty r target on Rapsodo and

967
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you go, wait, my average my

968
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: average proximity is twenty five feet. Well that means I've

969
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 2: got a whole lot over twenty five feet. Yeah, I've

970
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 2: got a few in there that are birdie putts. So

971
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 2: I think I think it can help people enjoy the

972
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 2: game because it maybe sets their expectations at a reasonable level.

973
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: Well, listen, I think you know at the elite level,

974
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: but also at the every day golfer lessel level that

975
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: that the majority of the people listening to this or

976
00:55:54,640 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: are are at. Just managing your expectations and having a

977
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: better understanding is to what you do, you know, I

978
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: think is huge. We could sit Sasho. I mean, there

979
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 1: are so many things I didn't get to. I've got

980
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: another list. So we're gonna get you back on because

981
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: I mean I read all the stuff that you're doing.

982
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 1: I've got so many questions. We will get you back

983
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 1: on the pod, you know, at a later date to

984
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: talk more about it, because I think the work you're

985
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: doing is amazing and to see and and I think

986
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: you've been lucky enough to see it. When when I

987
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: saw Matt after he won the US Open, I said

988
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: to him, it's a couple of weeks later. I think

989
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: it was at the British Or. I saw him at St.

990
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 1: Andrews last year. I said, listen, I've been around golf

991
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: pretty much my whole life, and you won't find someone

992
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: that works harder than that kid. If there's if there's

993
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: a stone that he can turn over, he's going to

994
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: turn it over to try and get better. And I

995
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 1: think the work that you've done with him has been

996
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: fun to watch. So congrats not only to him, but

997
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 1: congrats to you as well, and for everyone listening. If

998
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: you want to hit the golf ball further, or put

999
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,399
Speaker 1: some money in Doc's pocket and go get the Stack

1000
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: System because it will definitely help you. Thank you so

1001
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 1: much for taking the time to talk to us, and

1002
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: we will definitely get you back on the pod again soon.

1003
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 2: Okay, thanks Bob, my pleasure.

1004
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: So that was Sasha McKenzie. And listen, if you want

1005
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: to try and hit the golf ball further, I think

1006
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: he's got some data and some info that can help

1007
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: you do it. He's got a product that'll help you

1008
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: do it. So the Stack System. Some of the best

1009
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: players in the world they're using it, And if you

1010
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: want to hit the golf ball further, give it a try.

1011
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 1: I don't think you will be disappointed. So we've got

1012
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 1: a lot of great guests coming up, but we've got

1013
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: a lot of great guests that have been on the pod,

1014
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: So if you're new, go back, take a look. We've

1015
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: got some great interviews. Everything's designed to try and help

1016
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: your game get better, maybe teach some things you didn't know.

1017
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: But Ultimately, the whole goal of this pod is to

1018
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: try and have everybody enjoy their golf more so, I

1019
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: can't thank everybody enough for listening, rate, review, subscribe wherever

1020
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Son of a Butcher comes to

1021
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,479
Speaker 1: you every Wednesday. We will see you next week.