WEBVTT - The Karol Markowicz Show: The Detachment Between Elected Officials and the Average American 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:10.400 Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show. On iHeartRadio. 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:15.400 Last episode, I talked about taking advice from people who 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.400 don't know what they're talking about. The example that I 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.800 used was this perpetually single young woman on the Internet 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:29.560 who offers advice about relationships to men. She has no 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.640 idea about anything, not even the basics, and I don't 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:38.080 recommend listening to her. I was thinking about this as 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:42.440 Greta Thunberg hit the news again. Greta, of course, is 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.120 the Swedish girl who quit school to travel around the 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:50.320 world and lecture us about climate change, and now she's 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:54.320 on to the latest cause, the Warren Gaza, and she's 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:59.000 wearing a cafea and protesting a Jewish singer performing at 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:03.880 the Eurovision Company Titian in Malmo. Greta had this childlike 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:08.600 understanding of the environment. She had these insane demands like 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:12.600 end oil, you know, which would have caused hardship and 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.200 poverty and pain for people all over the world, and 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.600 yet she was taken seriously. And now she's on to 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:26.880 anti Israel demonstrations, which I'm also sure she knows nothing about. 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:32.039 She was turned into a child activist by adults and 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:37.040 now she's this empty adult going through the motions, tagging 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:41.160 on to whatever demonstration will have her. And part of it, 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:44.400 I think is that we're drawn to atypical advice givers. 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.640 Here's this little girl from Sweden telling us we need 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:52.040 to end oil, or here's this single woman on the 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:56.040 internet giving advice to men. This isn't a political show, 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.920 but it's important to be able to ignore ignorant voice 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:04.400 is like Greta's, and societally we really failed to do that. 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.520 I've mentioned on my Twitter, et cetera that for a 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:11.079 long time, and I actually mentioned this in my book 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.240 Stolen Youth as well. My son in first grade in 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:19.720 school in Brooklyn when we lived there, had months where 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:21.639 I would ask him what are you learning in school? 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:25.679 And he'd come back and say Greta. And so societally 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.040 we failed to ignore her. We have failed to ignore 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:34.440 this ignorant voice. And I think that the personal changes 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.240 that we talk about on this show, like not listening 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.519 to people who don't know anything, can translate to society 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.040 being better about this kind of thing too. If in 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:49.560 our own lives we know to dismiss people giving bad advice, 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.679 maybe that can trickle down to our culture recognizing a 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.760 Greta when they next see her. Coming up next, an 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.639 interview with Jordan Shaftel. Join us after the break. 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:06.720 Welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:10.120 guest today is Jordan Shackdal. Jordan is publisher of the 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.400 Dossier on Substack. Hi, Jordan, so nice to have you. 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.400 Hey, Carol, It's good to be here. Appreciate you having 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:16.640 me on. 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.160 So, Jordan's also part of our Florida crew. 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.919 And you also moved here from where did you move 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:24.600 here from? DC? 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:26.200 Yeah? 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.680 I was in d C for far too long. I 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.160 went to graduate school there. I grew up in Jersey 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:37.040 across from New York City and ended up in DC 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.160 for graduate school. Stayed for a while. You know, I 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.560 had a pretty decent time until the COVID era and 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:46.680 then all hell broke loose and I just couldn't take 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.080 it anymore. And you know, had a good network of 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.200 friends and family down in Florida. So I was just 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.240 you know, I think it was like somewhere around mid 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.400 twenty twenty where I was just like I'm out of here, 0:03:57.520 --> 0:03:58.760 like I've just got enough. 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:00.880 I don't think I I knew you got here mid 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.440 twenty twenty. That makes you one of the earlier people. 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.160 I mean, I think only John Cardillo beats you. 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:10.360 Yeah, and David Reboy. Both of them were pre COVID. 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:10.960 Yeah. 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:15.640 John is like the unofficial ambassador from Florida to the 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:21.040 United States, and Reboy is the Miami local who's been 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:21.800 here for a while. 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:24.200 Yeah, he's the mayor. 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:29.280 I definitely credit Reboy with some level of making me 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:30.240 consider Florida. 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:32.680 I mean, obviously there were larger. 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.839 Things at play, but he, you know, he definitely played 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.839 a role being the mayor of Miami and telling me 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:39.960 how great my social life was going to be when 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:43.279 I got here. And you know, he wasn't wrong. But 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.960 I had John on here a few weeks ago and 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:51.440 we talked about how he came here for like sleepy Florida, 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.400 and I don't feel like that's what we got at all, 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:56.320 do you think that? 0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:57.880 Yeah? 0:04:57.960 --> 0:04:59.719 You know, like I kind of like the mix that 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.360 we have in Florida. I grew up coming down here 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.280 because you know, a lot of my family with snowbirds 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:07.400 and those in the Northeast. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.760 Can you understand that snowbirds to Florida weird? 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:15.799 Yeah, there's a whole. There should be many books written 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:20.600 about it. But basically, you know, you you spend the 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.640 winter months in Florida or at least have a place 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.440 or rent a place for the holidays. But yeah, so 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.080 I spend a lot of time in Florida growing up, 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.120 and you're right, it was like old sleepy Florida, which 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.600 I wasn't particularly fond of, but you know, now in 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:39.800 my mid thirties as as an old sleepy person, No, 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.839 but it was interesting because, like, you know, you you 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.000 come to appreciate more of that stuff. 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:46.080 But also Florida is. 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:47.960 So much more lively now than it used to be. 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:52.560 You know, even the architecture, the neighborhoods. It's just a 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.200 whole different ballgame down here, and you know, I so 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.000 much appreciate that that it's not, you know, just the 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.039 reputation that it used to have, just as like basically 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:08.440 Heaven's uh, you know, waiting room is definitely you know, 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:12.159 there's still that element. But I think Florida is so 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:17.920 you know, diverse, the demographics now in a good way, 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:18.960 and it's. 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:20.000 Like such a happening place. 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.560 I feel like everything is happening here and like people 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:24.880 are constantly coming here. 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:26.039 I mean, I guess they always were. 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.800 Florida was always a vacation destination, but now there's so 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.520 many events and like political stuff and like a lot 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.960 of our world plays out here. I think more than ever, 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:37.160 I I don't feel like I have to leave here 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.160 to get the full experience. 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.360 Yeah. Absolutely, Like, you know, I think about my time 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:43.960 in d C, and you know, we had a lot 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:48.520 of good times with fellow right leaning people down there, 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:50.920 but are up there? And I say down there because 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:58.600 I'm from New Jersey, so but it's you know, I 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.080 think back at like get togethers and whatnot. Basically everyone 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.400 has left, so you know, there's probably no cool get 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.960 togethers in DC anyway anymore, or if that applies, could 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:09.360 there be? 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:09.920 Yeah? 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:15.200 Yeah, gone, Yeah, I've never lived in DC, I mean briefly, 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.880 like during an internship, But yeah, how could there possibly 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:23.760 be when everybody's in Florida exactly? So you published the 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:28.640 Dot and you have a wide, wide following. What kind 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:30.720 of stuff do you cover in your subject? 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.280 Yeah? So we basically cover everything. 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.760 And the only rule, you know, it's it's coming from 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:42.040 a right of center conservative slash libertarian slash you know, 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.240 freedom oriented whatever you want to call it perspective. But 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:47.160 you know, the only thing that I think that our 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:51.440 audience looks for consistently is the analysis or journalism needs 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.240 to be independent. I'm trying to get away far as 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.760 far away from possible as possible from like the aggregation, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.880 the clickbait that you know, you see a story somewhere 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:02.520 and you just kind of repeat it in your own 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:08.280 words elsewhere. I did that when I was in you know, 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:10.720 other parts of the right of center media. 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.160 Working under you know, a big. 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.880 Company, not corporate media, but you know, kind of like 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.680 anti establishment media, and I found that kind of boring, 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.080 so I definitely didn't want to bring that work into 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.720 my own publication. So I think that's what we try 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:27.960 to do, is you know, we we try to give 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:33.040 our audience a unique set of facts and circumstances on 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.079 every story, or a unique perspective, and try to engage 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.800 with it from you know, our open bias. 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:44.360 So I feel like I started reading you early COVID, 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.319 and you were one of the early voices, i mean 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.360 against lockdowns and you know, later on against vaccines, but 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:56.480 the lockdown stuff specifically, how did you know, like what 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.200 made you think like this is the wrong path and 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:00.800 we can be doing this. 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:01.680 Because I have to admit. 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.440 I mean I was like, I'm in April twenty twenty, 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.640 we shouldn't lock down anymore, which you know is considered early, 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:11.840 but you were before that. So what made you kind 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.199 of see the light earlier than everybody else? 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.040 Yeah, I've kind of always had this like anti authority 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.920 streak from from not from like an antifa perspective, but 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.760 from a right wing perspective. So you know, super early on, 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.360 I remember because you know, I read the news every 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:29.800 day and like that's what like a lot of people 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.520 are our industry do, Like we're just reading all day 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.440 on the internet all day. I was going to social 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:39.320 events with non political people and like in very early 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.319 twenty twenty, like January February, and I was like wow, 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:43.880 Like I was the one that was freaked out in 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:45.640 the beginning because I was like, wow, I can't believe 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.480 this is going on, Like don't these people know that 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:51.240 all these scientists are saying these awful things? And then it, 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:55.400 you know, the way the waves started coming to the US, 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:57.600 and you know, the more and more reading I did, 0:09:57.760 --> 0:09:59.600 the more and more I realized that like none of 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:03.800 this was based in any evidentiary standard, and that what 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.840 happened basically was that there was this consensus formed I 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:13.760 think among the academics and you know, science class in 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.440 which it kind of like frowze so many people into 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.520 this state of like dysfunction and being afraid to say 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.760 something because like, I think a lot of people were 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.760 thinking what I was thinking, but they just weren't willing 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.800 to put themselves out there because of the repercussions, because 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.800 of the group think, you know, very similar to any 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.440 type of like you know, I cover foreign policy too 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.360 a lot, and like how the right got caught so 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.760 off guard with like a war like Iraq, or you know, 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:44.240 finally agreeing that we needed to leave Afghanistan eventually. So 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.560 like that stuff is just hard. When there's so much 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:50.120 consensus among people who are your peers, you never really want. 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.080 That's I think what one of the lessons of the 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:57.040 COVID hysteria era is that, you know, it's very difficult 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.320 to show to really truly be an end of kind 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.880 of thinker and to be outspoken about issues like that. 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.400 I think it's just it showed that human nature is 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.760 kind of just like get along with the crowd, and 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.920 that really came to harm us during the COVID era. 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.000 It's interesting because I you know, I admit I was 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.880 for the Iraq War, and that was an extremely popular position. 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.040 But looking back at it, I think like the people 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.680 that were arguing against it were making such terrible arguments, 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.719 Like there were so few. I remember the libertarians were 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.840 making like good anti war you know, arguments, but on 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.520 the left in general, it was like Irish is just 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.240 doing this because he wants their oil or he's trying 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:40.200 to avenge his daddy. 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.559 Like it was not very. 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:45.200 Serious, and it seemed like the pro war side. I 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:46.720 mean I was, I was young, I was in my 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.480 early twenties. I mean, I don't I don't feel particularly 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.839 responsible for the opinians I had at the time. 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:54.200 But but I remember reading all about. 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:56.200 It and it was like the pro war side was 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.320 like just more serious, And I think that's really what 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.560 lured me into thinking that it was a good idea, 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.719 because the anti war side was just ridiculous. 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.719 Yeah, no, I agree, like that the neo conservatives were 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.920 true intellectuals. I thought that that just you know, their 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.640 policy ideas were were atrocious, but you know, they were 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:20.640 very well educated and they had you know, basically taken 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:21.720 over the Republican Party. 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:23.880 I mean I was, I think I was. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.360 The first time I voted, I was eighteen, freshman year 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.520 of college. I voted for John McCain. Right, So we all, 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:31.960 we all make mistakes, but you're right, like, what's the alternative? 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:33.200 It was Barack Obama? 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.400 Right, So it's like sometimes, no, that's an easy I 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.080 feel like that's an easier choice. 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.040 Yeah, But it's just you know, sometimes like we're just 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:47.320 faced with two competing groups that don't want to facilitate 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.120 our interests, and I think, like that's you know, that's 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.400 the that's the reality of our system right now. But 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.160 like I would still prefer that system to like, you know, 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:56.840 we see what's going on in Israel with the canesset 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.480 or in Europe with these you know, the parliamentary system 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:01.640 where you have thousand different parties and then you know 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.920 you really can't get anything done. So you know, there's 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:05.719 positives and negatives. 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.280 Right, Yeah, So what would you be doing if it 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.120 weren't this, If you weren't a writer? 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:12.040 What would be Plan B for Jordan? 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:13.400 Yeah? 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.760 I don't know, Like I wanted to have a real 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.520 job my whole life, and then when I was in 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.080 grad school, you know, I just started like I. 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:22.520 Wanted to have a real job. 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.599 So when I was in graduate school for international affairs, 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.439 I wanted to be basically like a deep state fed. 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:38.320 And I think I was too maybe open in that 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:42.920 interview process and they didn't want to move my applications forward, 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.240 which ended up being a blessing. But you know, and 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.439 then before that, you know, growing up, I just wanted 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.400 to be you know, pro baseball player, pro basketball player, 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.120 pro ball you know, makes some I don't work out. Yeah, 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.440 like probably, I'm sure that's what your kids are looking 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.839 at right now, but it's yeah, you. 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:02.160 Know, like I kind of just fell into this. 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.040 I was in grad school and one of my professors 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.000 was like, hey, that paper was kind of interesting. You 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.079 want to submit that, And I submitted it, I think 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.480 to like Breitbart or something, and then I started working 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.640 at Breitbart, and then you know, from there, it's been 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.240 it's been like twelve years in this space now, so 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.240 I know for a lot of people that's not too long, 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.600 but you know, it just became more and more interesting, 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.080 and I think, you know, the best way to become 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.160 a better writer is just to write more and read 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:32.040 more too, So as I became yeah, as my skills improved, 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.280 I think that like more people became interested in my work, 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.840 so you know, kind of had this effect of encouraging 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.040 me to continue pressing on. 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.000 But never would I have imagined. 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.720 You know, in my first twenty years of life, that 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.040 I would be doing this right now. You know, I'm 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:50.360 not a particularly extroverted person, so being like in the 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.320 media space is kind of weird. For it's still kind 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.080 of weird, but I very much enjoy it now were 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:56.720 you're doing great. 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:57.040 I think. 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:01.920 I think this interview is going really well. So you 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:06.000 have the substack where you support yourself on it, and 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.120 you have you know, your your own publication, and that's 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.200 really dazzling to me. I mean, you know, you and 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.840 I have had conversations and you've encouraged me to start 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:15.600 a substack, and I'm like, I'm just too old for this. 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.920 I don't understand how it works, but. 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:21.520 You're doing it, and I think that's really impressive. Do 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:23.320 you feel like you've made it, like you get to do. 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:23.960 Whatever you want. 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.440 I think that it's great to have that kind of flexibility. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.880 I don't like phrasing it as if I've made it because, 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.760 like you, I'm sure you encounter these people all the 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.400 time who have internalized this idea that they've made it, 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.440 and you're having a conversation with them, and you just 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.880 feel like it's a one way conversation from them to 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.640 you because they've decided that there's nothing more that they 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:52.920 can learn. So that's why I would never say that 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.400 I've made it. But I think, like you know, kind 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.400 of growing older and maturing, you start to kind of 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:04.160 shift priorities from material possessions and goods to like, what 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.200 is making it really mean? I think it would means, like, 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:11.120 from my perspective, maybe having a big family and a 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.960 cool legacy and to be remembered for doing something positive. 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:17.400 And I think that would mean that I've made it. 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.120 But I think like it like an Andrew Taate, like figure, 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.640 I think that guy probably goes to sleep and he's 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.200 absolutely miserable every night, although he probably is worth a 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.160 billion dollars and might be the most influential thirty something 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:33.480 on the planet. So, you know, making it it's you know, 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.040 there's a wide variety of answers, but I think, like 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.800 definitely making it to me would mean being like super 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:42.120 content with how you're living your life, how you lived 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.920 your life and the legacy that you left. 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:45.640 Yeah. 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.400 Absolutely, I mean I asked that question of all my guests, 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.520 and I've gotten a real range of answers, and you have, 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.480 you know, multimillionaires who say that they haven't made it 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.480 and people who make, you know, much more modest livings 0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.440 than saying that they have. And so I think it's 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.320 it's really you know, obviously it's objective, but I love 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.040 to hear what people. 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.120 Think made it means. And so that's, you know, why 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.320 why I keep that question in the roster. So one 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.359 other question that I ask all of my guests, and. 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:17.359 I feel like you probably are well poised to answer 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.199 this because you write about this kind of stuff all 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.400 the time. But what would you say is our largest 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:26.240 cultural issue, like or societal issue in America? 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:33.679 Yeah, you know, I remember seeing this question, and I don't, like, 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.160 I think that I am not qualified to give. 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:47.400 Qualified But I know this show isn't political. However, It's okay. 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:48.600 It could be it could be something. 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.120 I mean, you know, it fears into politics. I've had 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:55.479 lots of guests who automatically just go go political because 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.200 you know that that's what feels comfortable and it's it's okay, 0:17:58.359 --> 0:17:59.400 we accept it. 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:00.400 Yeah. 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:06.240 I think that there's an incredible detachment between the elected 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:12.600 representatives and you know, the average American person. And while 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.200 there's many people who claim to have the perfect system 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:20.960 to resolve that issue, particularly like the fiscal status of 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:25.800 the United States, you know, I've very much, i guess, 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.240 evolved on this issue. Like I come from a very 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:33.840 free market perspective and coming and similarly over the COVID years, 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:36.800 I came to realize. 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:41.080 That you know, there's there there's very much like. 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:45.119 A uniparty system in the United States, because you know, 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.360 there were there were very there's always been arguments from 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.199 the right that the GOP is kind of like this 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.080 party of big business, and the and the Democrat parties 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.040 just like the insane party. And it's kind of true 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:59.520 because like you know, if you look at income over 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.160 time and like purchasing power of the dollar, like everybody's 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:10.040 getting screwed at the expense of the very powerful interests 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.639 in Washington, d c. And on Wall Street, and the 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.320 capital just flows to people who are closest to the 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.080 money printer today. And that's an issue that I think 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.600 about a lot is like, how do we resolve that 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.800 through you know, free market principles, because like I feel like, 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.360 for a very long time under like you know, the Bush, McCain, 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.160 Romney era of Republicanism and even some Trump stuff, Trump 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.560 printed trillions of dollars too, like, and that did not 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.639 do anything to resolve the issues of the income disparity 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:43.080 in the United States. And I think it's a very 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.720 real thing. And I think people are right, no matter 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:50.480 what their ideology is, that this is a very troubling 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.560 issue in the United States that people are saddled with 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.960 so much debt today. Like I think about like my 0:19:56.080 --> 0:20:01.119 future children, God willing, like how going to be able 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:05.440 to make sure that they have no debt because once 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.879 the debt, you're basically begging the government, you know, you 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.720 see with Biden right now, you're begging the government to 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:14.680 bail out people who were saddled with student loans for 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.480 many years prior. And there's really no way today. Like 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.840 I know that the boomers and whatnot say that, oh, 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:23.240 you know, I was washing cars pay through college. Well 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:28.040 now college costs go to good school, and you don't 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.280 you know, you don't have a you know, some type 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:35.000 of wealth or scholarship. You know, you might be paying 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:37.520 eighty thousand dollars a year to go to a top 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:39.800 tier school. So it's like, how are you going to 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.800 how are you going to get out of that debt hole? 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.160 It's very difficult. So it's something that's always on my mind. 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:49.000 It's like, how are we going to deal with this 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:54.000 crisis of people being like if you're not working at 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.800 a top pedge fund or private equity firm out of 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.640 college like you have, and you don't have any support, 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:01.879 Like this is very much an uphill battle that so 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:03.880 many American states, right. 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:06.240 I mean, I think that there's a lot of answers 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.920 to this, but like, for one thing, I think people 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.760 need to start either not going to college. And I 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:14.760 know this is like an unpopular thing to say, but 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.480 I'm not necessarily encouraging my kids to go to college. 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.040 Like I think that they will because it's the path 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:21.600