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Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by Incognate. You know, one of the things we talk

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Speaker 1: code Chuck podcast to get sixty percent off and start

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Speaker 1: taking control of your personal data today. Trust me, I'm

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Speaker 1: constantly working on this for years myself, and here's an

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Speaker 1: opportunity for you to take matters into your own hands

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Speaker 1: as well. Hello there, and welcome to the Monday episode

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Speaker 1: of the Chuck Podcast. As you can see, I'm representing

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Speaker 1: the Canes here because in my extended family, I've told

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Speaker 1: you so, we've we've we basically we have Florida State,

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Speaker 1: s m U Auburn, Arkansas. That that's sort of like

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Speaker 1: the large group of schools in our extended family that

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Speaker 1: we consistently rood for. Oh, miss, I got some ties

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Speaker 1: to I'm not going to claim LSU. Sorry, Drew, on

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Speaker 1: that one. That's that's a little hard for me. But

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Speaker 1: you guys aren't in this NCAA tournament yet, and maybe

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Speaker 1: I would if you were there. The bottom line is,

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Speaker 1: there's only in my in my extended family chats where

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Speaker 1: we care about college basketball. There are two teams left

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Speaker 1: that I have some family invested in, or at least

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Speaker 1: two teams that did that didn't lose in the first round.

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Speaker 1: So I'm representing my Canes here with that. But hey,

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Speaker 1: the tournament's kind of played out how we kind of

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Speaker 1: all thought how that it was going to be top heavy,

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Speaker 1: right two years in a row that the top four

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Speaker 1: seeds all went undefeated in the first round. This is

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Speaker 1: the conundrum of nil right. On one hand, some people

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Speaker 1: say it's terrible, it's doing terrible things for college athletics.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, the good gets better in college basketball,

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Speaker 1: and we have seen right the top twenty five programs.

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Speaker 1: It's just a better it's better quality. College basketball feels

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Speaker 1: like as close to the eighties in competitiveness, where you

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Speaker 1: consistently had three and four year starters on teams. We

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Speaker 1: have that this time. They just don't always stay with

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Speaker 1: the same team for three or four years. But you

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Speaker 1: have that that these veteran players are sticking. They're not

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Speaker 1: testing to see if there's any money to be found

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Speaker 1: in the NBA or go make money overseas. Instead they're

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Speaker 1: staying in college basketball, and you're seeing what that does. Now,

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Speaker 1: what's the part of the tournament? We all love the

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Speaker 1: best ah those twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen seed upsets. So

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Speaker 1: it was fun to watch Sienna give Duke a scare

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Speaker 1: for everybody right to see that that's still ill possible.

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Speaker 1: And there's certainly were some impressive you know, thirteen and

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Speaker 1: fourteen seeds and how they played, but you could see

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Speaker 1: that it was really because what's really been the big

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Speaker 1: difference these days between sort of the power for conferences

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Speaker 1: plus the Big East and everybody else is depth. That's

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Speaker 1: where you see it. And even these these mid majors

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Speaker 1: that have hung. You watched it with Saint Louis, with Michigan,

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Speaker 1: they can hang until they can't and they just sort

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Speaker 1: of run out of bodies. Frankly, it's something I'm concerned

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Speaker 1: about about Miami. I feel pretty good about their ability

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Speaker 1: to match up against anybody for a game, being able

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Speaker 1: to get through a grueling tournament requires a little bit

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Speaker 1: of depth. I think we're seeing that and that's probably

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Speaker 1: going to be what's decisive and who wins this national title. Right,

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Speaker 1: Is Douke going to be healthy enough by the end

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Speaker 1: to pull this off? Is Iowa State going to be

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Speaker 1: healthy enough to stay as competitive as they are? So

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Speaker 1: I know we depth is going to be a big deal,

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Speaker 1: But that's the big the big thing you do. There

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Speaker 1: a few other things I want any alert you to tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: As in Tuesday, I'm very excited. I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: launching a new podcast show. I'm going to be co

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Speaker 1: hosting it with somebody. I want to not get ahead

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Speaker 1: of things here, I will just leave you this clue.

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Speaker 1: It is in the sports history space. I'll be teaming

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Speaker 1: up with a terrific journalist who happens to have a

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Speaker 1: deep knowledge in the area of sports. But again, we

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Speaker 1: will wait till I can't step on my own press

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Speaker 1: release on things like that. But I'm very excited. Debuts Tuesday.

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Speaker 1: Everything comes out Tuesday. You'll start to see opportunities to

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Speaker 1: take a listen to the show in this feed and

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Speaker 1: other feeds here because guess what, if I'm involved, I

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Speaker 1: want you guys to know about it, just like when

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Speaker 1: I'm involved with my other projects and including I have

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Speaker 1: a fascinating interview this week on Newsphere. For those of

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Speaker 1: you who subscribe, you may have already watched it. It

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Speaker 1: is with Robert Albriton. He is one of the original

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Speaker 1: founders of Politico. He is just recently decided to hire

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Speaker 1: up some former Washington Post journalists, including perhaps their single

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Speaker 1: best congressional reporter and analysts that they have there and

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Speaker 1: Paul Kane, and he wants to try to fill the

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Speaker 1: void that the Washington Post has chosen to leave here

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. And it is if you are

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Speaker 1: in the media business and you are curious what is

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Speaker 1: happening in the DC market, what is Robert Albritton up to?

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Speaker 1: And you should know a little bit about his family history.

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Speaker 1: His father was the one time owner of the Washington Star,

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Speaker 1: which was a serious competitor an afternoon paper here in Washington,

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Speaker 1: but a serious competitor of the Post. There's some terrific

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Speaker 1: journalists who who go back to the Washington Stars days,

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Speaker 1: but in the sixties and seventies it was the other

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Speaker 1: paper of Washington. His family also own one of the

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Speaker 1: TV affiliates here and was in the TV affiliate ownership business. WJLA,

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Speaker 1: the ABC affiliate in d C, was an All Britton station.

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Speaker 1: The A and w j LA stands for Albritton, Joe L. Albrighton. Well,

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Speaker 1: Robert is his son. Robert got in the media business himself,

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Speaker 1: working with John Harrison Jim Vandeheide found Politico. After selling

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Speaker 1: it successfully to Axel Springer, he started a journalism institute

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Speaker 1: to try to help train young journalists. But I'll be

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Speaker 1: honest to me, it looked like he was just waiting

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Speaker 1: to see what he was going to do next. He

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Speaker 1: had made a nice, tidy profit off of Politico, and

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Speaker 1: he certainly had the ability to do something here and

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Speaker 1: wants to, you know, now, get into the local space,

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Speaker 1: be a I don't know if it's necessarily a competitor

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Speaker 1: with the posts, quasi competitor with the post, but at

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Speaker 1: the same time leaning in more on the on some

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Speaker 1: of the local vacuums. That and what was interesting is

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Speaker 1: look in our conversation, it's pretty clear things are a

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Speaker 1: bit unformed. Still, let me just I hope you take

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Speaker 1: a look at it. Yes, it's behind a paywall. I

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Speaker 1: encourage you if you've not subscribed, take a trial take

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Speaker 1: a look. There's some terrific independent journalists covering the war

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Speaker 1: in Iran, in particular what's going on in Cuba. There

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Speaker 1: is plenty to learn from Newsphere. It is a really

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Speaker 1: sort of an elite, high quality news organization with some

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Speaker 1: of the most intriguing journalists that are on the ground,

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Speaker 1: experts in their space, yours truly. Obviously, I'm I'm an investor,

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Speaker 1: I'm a participant. I'm a big fan of this. I

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Speaker 1: think the technology is terrific as well. So let me

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Speaker 1: just give you a few quotes that Robert gave me

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Speaker 1: in the interview, and again I really encourage you. I'll

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Speaker 1: have some clips on my Instagram feed. We'll have some clips.

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Speaker 1: You'll be able to circulate some of them. But let

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Speaker 1: me just give you a few quotes from here that

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Speaker 1: just gives you a taste of the conversation that we had.

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Speaker 1: But he really does give an idea that I think

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Speaker 1: this is going. He wants to try to rethink what

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Speaker 1: a local news organization could be. How do you engage

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Speaker 1: the community in a way that maybe their participants not

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Speaker 1: just consumers of the product. What do I mean by

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Speaker 1: that well, think local sports, think sports coaches helping to

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Speaker 1: make sure, maybe becoming a platform to showcase use sports

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Speaker 1: streaming feeds so that parents can and grandparents and aunts

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Speaker 1: and uncles can keep up with their sons, daughters, grandkids,

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Speaker 1: nieces and nephews, etc. On that. So he is thinking

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Speaker 1: about sort of all the sort of more modern ways.

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Speaker 1: How do you we're a hyper local community. People care

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Speaker 1: what's going on in Arlington, Virginia, but they may not

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Speaker 1: care that much what's going on Montgomery County. But they

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Speaker 1: also care about what's going on, but both of us

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Speaker 1: may care about what's going on in Congress. So he

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Speaker 1: wants to try to figure out how do you engage

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Speaker 1: how do you be a hub for the micro local

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Speaker 1: at the same time without it becoming too resource dependent

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Speaker 1: where it becomes impossible to do that and be able

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Speaker 1: to run an organization that doesn't lose money. So a

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Speaker 1: few things, a few quotes from him. So I'm the mission,

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Speaker 1: he says. So, I think what our mission here is

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Speaker 1: to do is really cover what I call the village

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Speaker 1: in Washington, which is it's not the entire area. I

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Speaker 1: think we need to cover the various places where people

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Speaker 1: live too. But I think a huge portion of what

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Speaker 1: we're going and looking to do is acknowledge the fact

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Speaker 1: that we're a factory town. Right, And he makes this

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Speaker 1: point whether folks live in rest In or Hyattsville, which

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Speaker 1: are local areas in Virginia and Maryland suburban areas. I

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Speaker 1: want to admit it, everybody's indirectly here because some job

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Speaker 1: has something to do with the fact that the public

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Speaker 1: government's here, So we're all tied into it. That's our

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Speaker 1: primary village. But then we go down to but it's

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Speaker 1: not just covering Congress in the White House and agencies.

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Speaker 1: It also goes to people who live here. They don't

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Speaker 1: work one hundred percent of the time. What else is

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Speaker 1: going on? Right? Kids in school, they want to make sure.

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Speaker 1: They want to know what's going on with their neighbors.

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Speaker 1: They want to know all these things. They're interested in sports,

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Speaker 1: they're interested in weather, They're interested in all kinds of

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Speaker 1: basic things that anybody in Des Moines or Tipeka or

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Speaker 1: Houston would be interested in today. So I think there's

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Speaker 1: a magic blend between two of those that works to

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Speaker 1: make it. The hometown paper seems pretty simple enough. Again,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot more to it. Trust me. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I'm not shy about, you know, giving them my points

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Speaker 1: of view and my ideas and we banter back and forth.

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Speaker 1: If you care about the future of local media, if

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Speaker 1: you care about the future of Washington media, if you

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Speaker 1: care about the future of the information ecosystem, I think

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Speaker 1: you'll enjoy this conversation. I'll tell you one thing about

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Speaker 1: Robert Albert. He's kind of a happy warrior. He really

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Speaker 1: I think he. I think, Look, you know, you never

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Speaker 1: know for sure, but I really think he because he's

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Speaker 1: grew up here, he lives here. I think that's a

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Speaker 1: huge distinction with Jeff Bezos. I think he didn't by

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Speaker 1: not ever living here, he didn't understand what the Washington

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Speaker 1: Post meant to people personally. And I think that lack

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Speaker 1: of knowledge of him not leaving living here, I think

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Speaker 1: he might have cared. You know, he might have understood

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Speaker 1: it more because he lived in northwest Seattle. He never

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Speaker 1: lived here. And this is what happens. This is why

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Speaker 1: you never want to sell see your sports teams bought

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Speaker 1: up by outsiders. You never want to see your local

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Speaker 1: institutions bought up by outsiders because they do not have

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Speaker 1: the personal investment and that's ultimately what feels like the

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Speaker 1: distinction here between all Burton and Bezos. One grew up here,

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Speaker 1: seems to do at the end of the day, care about

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Speaker 1: the community and maybe care what his friends and neighbors

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Speaker 1: think of what he's doing as a steward in the community,

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Speaker 1: versus the Jeff Bezos, who has no friends and neighbors.

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Speaker 1: Here just a little thought there. But anyway, so I've

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Speaker 1: got that, I've got the new podcast on sports history

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Speaker 1: launching on Tuesday that I'm very excited about. But let's

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Speaker 1: get to what's going on in the world of politics.

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Speaker 1: And as you know, I've said it before and I

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Speaker 1: will say it again, there is only one story at

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Speaker 1: the moment. You know, Ultimately, the war in Iran is

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Speaker 1: impacting everything. It's impacting the economy, it's impacting politics, It's

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Speaker 1: impacting everything this point. So we're far enough into this

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Speaker 1: war to say this as plainly as possible. Everything else

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Speaker 1: is downstream of this, the economy, the election, energy prices,

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Speaker 1: the broader media environment. And yet for all the coverage,

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Speaker 1: one basic question remains unanswered on this war. What does

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Speaker 1: the end of this look like? Because wars tend to end,

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Speaker 1: one of two ways, total surrender or a viable exit

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Speaker 1: ran Right now, it's hard to see either, and that's

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Speaker 1: what makes this moment so dangerous. So let's start with

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Speaker 1: something that might seem secondary of the ward its self,

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Speaker 1: but politically it's not. Gas prices. The rising energy costs

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Speaker 1: are not politically neutral, and this is a huge problem

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Speaker 1: for the president. They hit different voters in different ways,

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Speaker 1: and in this case, the voters who are going to

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Speaker 1: feel this first, who are feeling it in the moment

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Speaker 1: and they're getting the artists, are the voters that are

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Speaker 1: most likely part of Donald Trump's coalition. In a city,

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Speaker 1: a gas hike is an annoyance on an app in

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Speaker 1: the excerbs and in rural America, a majority of whom

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Speaker 1: are Trump supporters, and we're Trump voters. This is a

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Speaker 1: tax on simply existing. You can't subway your way out

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Speaker 1: of a commute in Pennsylvania, Ohio. You live it. And

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Speaker 1: that's the shift here that matters the most. This isn't

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Speaker 1: just an economic hit to all of us. It's to

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Speaker 1: a specific group of voters. It's a breach of the

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Speaker 1: populist contract that Trump agreed to with them, the promise

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Speaker 1: that the system would work better for them. It's blowing

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Speaker 1: up in their face, one expensive gas tank at a time.

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Speaker 1: Your costs were supposed to go down, instead they're going up.

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Speaker 1: Your life was supposed to get easier. Instead it's gotten

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Speaker 1: more complicated. The cost of simply getting through the day

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Speaker 1: is right, there is now a tax I'm just picking

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Speaker 1: up your kids from school. There is a new Trump tax.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to the grocery store. There's a new

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Speaker 1: Trump tax. I'm going from one job to another. And

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Speaker 1: this war has no clear endpoint, which brings us to

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Speaker 1: the core strategic issue. So we're trying to apply pressure

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Speaker 1: right now, economic and military on a regime that may

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Speaker 1: not respond to pressure the way small deed democracies do.

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Speaker 1: We think in terms of incentives, costs go up, behavior changes,

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Speaker 1: pain increases, pressure builds. I'll give you a simple answer.

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Speaker 1: We shack up taxes on cigarettes. Just made them vice taxes.

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Speaker 1: The point was to get people to make it so

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Speaker 1: expensive that they would change their habit, and for the

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Speaker 1: most part people have. It's pretty it's been a pretty

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Speaker 1: effective way to to help cut back. That's just a

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Speaker 1: small incentive, right, It's a behavioral incentive, But that logic

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Speaker 1: doesn't cleanly apply in this war. At the moment, we're

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Speaker 1: trying to play chess against a regime that is not

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Speaker 1: operating on a conventional strategic board. You cannot bank on

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Speaker 1: rational economic actors when the leadership views suffering as a

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Speaker 1: tool of domestic control. Right, we sit here and think, hey,

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Speaker 1: your people are going to suffer. This regime was willing

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Speaker 1: to kill its own people that protested them. So the

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Speaker 1: president threatening them with more suffering, it may not have

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Speaker 1: the impact he thinks it's supposed to have. Sanctions are

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Speaker 1: a scalpel the regime wheelds a sleigh chammer. This is

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Speaker 1: a system that has repeatedly shown it is willing to

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Speaker 1: absorb pain. Look at how long we've had sanctions on Iran.

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Speaker 1: They not only absorb it, then they impose it and

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Speaker 1: they punish their own people, all to maintain power. So normal,

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Speaker 1: small the democratic incentives are not going to work with

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Speaker 1: these folks. So the pressure then the question becomes what

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Speaker 1: is the pressure point? What does force a change in behavior?

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Speaker 1: I think we naively thought just eliminating the Ayatola was

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Speaker 1: going to do it, and that there was going to

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Speaker 1: somehow be all these people below who were not devoted

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Speaker 1: to the regime. Oh, the Ietol is gone, Let's go

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Speaker 1: cut a deal just like he got in Venezuela. And

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Speaker 1: I am concerned. I'm going to repeat this. He is not.

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Speaker 1: I think that only General Kine tried to be specific

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Speaker 1: with him about the potential calamities that could come with this,

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Speaker 1: the un you know, the the unintended consequence of starting

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Speaker 1: this war. Why do I think General Kine was the

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Speaker 1: only one, because he also then went to the Wall

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Speaker 1: Street General, Washington Post, and New York Times and seemed

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Speaker 1: to make sure his skepticism was his public and was

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Speaker 1: in every place that the president could see it. But

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Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like anybody else told the president what

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Speaker 1: he didn't want to hear. Everybody told him what he

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Speaker 1: wanted to hear on this. And this is what happens.

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Speaker 1: This is why a presidency built the way he built it,

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Speaker 1: where loyalty is one hundred percent, and telling him news

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Speaker 1: that he doesn't want to hear can get you fired.

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Speaker 1: This is how you end up in a circumstance like this.

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Speaker 1: So look, this is this is why sick of fans

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Speaker 1: in an administration actually endanger your life and my life.

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Speaker 1: These sick of fans. These spineless folks who just want

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Speaker 1: to be close to power, who are willing to do

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Speaker 1: whatever it takes to keep dear leader happy, arevoing you

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Speaker 1: and I in danger, are rising the costs of our

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Speaker 1: gas prices. That's spinelessness. Now maybe he does this anyway,

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Speaker 1: but let's not pretend he was told all of the

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Speaker 1: consequences in the detail that he needed to be told.

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Speaker 1: That might have where other presidents did set themselves up

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Speaker 1: to make sure they were getting feedback that wasn't sickophantish

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Speaker 1: in nature. This president, he has designed an administration to

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Speaker 1: be sickophantic. I mean, we've seen those cabinet meetings. They're embarrassing,

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Speaker 1: they're hilarious, except that it impacts all of our lives.

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Speaker 1: If we were observing another country, we would mock and

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Speaker 1: just find it absolutely Like God, look at these nutjobs

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Speaker 1: and what they do. We do laugh at North Korea

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Speaker 1: when we see the North Korean anchors, We laugh at

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Speaker 1: Bagdad Bob. Suddenly we have, you know, propaganda pede. It's

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Speaker 1: really it again. But wasn't so dangerous It would be funny,

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Speaker 1: but it's extraordinarily dangerous situation that being in again we're

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Speaker 1: here in this where he's boxed himself in where I

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Speaker 1: think we're going to end up escalating because we have

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Speaker 1: no other choice, because perhaps even finding an exit ramp

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Speaker 1: at this point would just essentially hand the region and

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Speaker 1: hand global superpower to China. This episode of the Chuck

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Speaker 1: we are. There's no clear incentive for surrender. There's no

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Speaker 1: clear off ran for the United States. There's every chance

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Speaker 1: that we just are sort of you know, we basically

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Speaker 1: the United States may have made the exact same miscalculation

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Speaker 1: that Russian made with Ukraine. Now this will be easy,

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Speaker 1: this will be quick. We'll overwhelm them for more than

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Speaker 1: five years into that war in Ukraine. And then there's

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Speaker 1: the coalition question. So over the last year, US foreign

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Speaker 1: policy has been defined less by partnership and more by

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Speaker 1: transaction and version, tariffs, public pressure, burden sharing demands, beating

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Speaker 1: up these folks in public. Right, these things have consequences.

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Speaker 1: So when you treat your foreign policy like a protection racket,

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Speaker 1: your partners start acting like reluctant customers. They'll do what

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Speaker 1: they have to, but they're not going to be there

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Speaker 1: when you need them. They're not going to be looking

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Speaker 1: for shared victories with you. They're going to basically be

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Speaker 1: looking for exits. A coalition of the coerced is never

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Speaker 1: a coalition of the willing. And right now that's the

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Speaker 1: reality we're dealing with. He beats the crap out of

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Speaker 1: our allies over the last year and a half. He

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Speaker 1: pounds them with tariffs, he landbasts them from you know,

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Speaker 1: every which way, and then when they don't show up

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Speaker 1: when we really could use them at the moment, they're

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Speaker 1: not there, and do you blame them? You know, think

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Speaker 1: about any of your relationships in life. Right, somebody needs

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Speaker 1: your help if they've been an asshole to you, how

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Speaker 1: likely are you to pick up a hand to help.

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Speaker 1: You may help because you think it helps the greater neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: but you may be just as likely to say good luck. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's a shame. I wish you all the best. And

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Speaker 1: that's the situation that Donald Trump has put us in.

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Speaker 1: We are isolated, we are alone, and we could use

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Speaker 1: the help. Of course, if he had built you know, again,

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Speaker 1: he did none of this spade work that you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to do that you should have done before launching this excursion.

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Speaker 1: Which come on, we all know this. It's an incursion

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Speaker 1: that he's trying to say, but instead he keeps saying excursion.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's you know, Donald Trump's very sort of

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Speaker 1: narrow vocabulary at times can be amusing. You know. His

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Speaker 1: obsession with the idea that somehow all of these immigrants

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Speaker 1: that have come into this country are in are coming

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Speaker 1: from insane asylums is because he conflates the word asylum.

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Speaker 1: He hears asylum and he thinks a a institution that

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Speaker 1: holds mentally deranged people or mentally unhealthy people, when it

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Speaker 1: is obviously an entirely different definition when you're dealing with immigration.

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Speaker 1: So it is amusing with his excursion. This is not

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Speaker 1: an excursion. If you want to call it an incursion.

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Speaker 1: You might call it an incursion, but it is amusing.

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Speaker 1: But this goes back. We just we just sort of

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Speaker 1: dismiss and I you know, oh, it's just Trump and Trump.

428
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: You know Blue Tarski when the Germans bomb Borough Harbor,

429
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: Germans excursion, incursion. You know, he's on a roll, right

430
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: that that that's what we end up doing. But we're

431
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: in a we're we're in it deep. We could use

432
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: some help with the straight of horror moons and if

433
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: he had put together a coalition and explained everything he

434
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: was going to do. But now you understand why so

435
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: many American presidents, Democrat and Republican have been very careful

436
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: here on Iran. It's because they will fight back asymmetrically.

437
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: This is this. I mean, look, this playbook, this, this

438
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: asymmetrical playbook was written in Vietnam, was perfected in Afghanistan,

439
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: and has essentially been used against great powers everywhere we've been.

440
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: We've overcome it eventually in Iraq. We eventually would overcome it,

441
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: but it got wrong way out right. What was initially

442
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: an overwhelming victory, we were dealing with insurgent for years,

443
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: and of course in Afghanistan we never really won, end

444
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: up handing the country over to the group of people

445
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: we were never intending to hand the country over to.

446
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: The hope was to have a pluralistic society of some sort.

447
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: That did not happen again, asymmetric warfare. So how's Ukraine survived?

448
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: Asymmetric warfare? Here we are so at leads to something else,

449
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: more intangible, but just as important leadership. Because presidents and

450
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: moments like this typically do something very specific, specific they're

451
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: supposed to project steadiness even when they don't feel it.

452
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: And what's striking here it's not just the volatility. It's

453
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: the absence of any effort to mask it. It's not

454
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: simply a messaging issue. But he literally vacillates from day

455
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 1: to day. We don't need you, We're desperate for how

456
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: with our allies. You know, every day it's an unpredictably

457
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: you have forty eight hours to open the straight of

458
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: Horn moves oron, or we're going to blow up your

459
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: largest energy structure. You know, what their largest energy structure

460
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: is a nuclear reactor. We're going to bomb a nuclear

461
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: reactor the United States. By the way, I have my

462
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: time machine in this episode. Nuclear reactors are a theme

463
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: to this week's time machine. But I so there's a

464
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: fun little teas for you. There are we going to

465
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: do this? We just lectured Israel to stop bombing certain

466
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: energy infrastructure so that these countries can get rebuilt within

467
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: a reasonable amount of time and have an economy and

468
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: not just tank the entire global economy. And now we've

469
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: got mister hothead on truth Social saying, you've got forty

470
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: eight hours and we know what's going on here. He

471
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: is panicking about gas prices. It all goes to back

472
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: his voter. Right, you own an F one fifty, you

473
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: own a specifically, if you own a Dodge Ram, which

474
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: is probably the worst of the gas mileage, that is,

475
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: you want to pick up truck in America, you're probably

476
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: more likely to vote for Donald Trump. You're more likely

477
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: to drive more miles than than than than most people.

478
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: You probably live in in a larger geographic area that

479
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: you conduct your day to day life rural and exurban America.

480
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: His voters. He is punishing them financially right now, and

481
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 1: it's not going to get over more could start stop tomorrow.

482
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: We're still months before things get back to normal on

483
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: the energy markets, therefore, months before you start to see

484
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: relief in the prices. And again it's his voters that

485
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: could hit first. So his his panic is politically explainable. Here,

486
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: it's completely explainable. But this is what happens when you

487
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: don't think things through before you make a decision like this,

488
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: and you just continue to get told everything's going to

489
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: be easy. You're told what you want to hear, so

490
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: you get the sickophants that have put us in danger.

491
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: Lack of planning has put us in danger. Alienating our

492
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: allies has put us in danger. Other than that things

493
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: are going swimmingly with this war, something else happened this

494
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: weekend that's sort of exposed something that is not surprising

495
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: about this president, but continues to it continues to depress me. Right.

496
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: It's the death of Robert Muller, former FBI director, just

497
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: basically a model public servant, served in Vietnam, served as

498
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: SBI director during nine to eleven. I mean, really sort

499
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: of brought the FBI out of out of you know,

500
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: sort of helped rebuild its reputation in a positive direction.

501
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: Just a fine you know, he's got a fine, long

502
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: resume of public service, and by all accounts, this is

503
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: an honorable individual. You may disagree with what he did

504
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: or how he conducted himself during the Special Council Investigation

505
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: of the twenty sixteen campaign, but I imagine most of

506
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: you would have some respect for anybody that wore the

507
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: uniform and served this country, anybody that helped rebuild this

508
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: country and go find the bad guys after nine to eleven.

509
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: These would be good things. And Donald Trump celebrates his

510
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: death and you know, you know, it's easy. I was,

511
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: it's easy to dunk on him in moments like this, right,

512
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: and you know, and I know that you know, dunk

513
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: on him, and hey, take a look at this video

514
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: and look, Donald Trump's an asshole. See there's more proof

515
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: of it, right, there's no doubt, Like I mean, it is.

516
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: It's just, you know, I know, we're never it's never

517
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: surprising anymore when he has no problem sort of just

518
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: you know what to people who die, it's it's truly sad.

519
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it was sort of my old friend Britt

520
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: Hume who's a political analyst for Fox. He said something

521
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: very plainly on X that I'm going to repeat here

522
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: because he's right, and I want to unpack it here

523
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: for a minute. So you know Trump it was. He

524
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: retweeted what Trump said about mull Arm. You know, he

525
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: said he was basically good riddance. You know, he's glad

526
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: to see you know that he can't hurt people anymore,

527
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: or something like that. And it's britt human notes he goes,

528
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: this is the kind of stuff Trump does that makes

529
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: people not just oppose him but hate him. There's no

530
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,239
Speaker 1: need to say anything. Right. Meanwhile, you have like George W.

531
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: Bush and Barack Obama talking about Robert Muller is one

532
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:20,959
Speaker 1: of the finest public servants this country's ever had. And

533
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: that's the question that we all should be asking ourselves.

534
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: All of us have people that we have a rational

535
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: hate about. If you're a human being, you have somebody

536
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: in your life somewhere, at some point that you're irrationally

537
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: angry at. You know, you might even say I'd piss

538
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: on their grave, right, you know, something like that. But

539
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to guess ninety nine percent of you would

540
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: know when to shut up. We know when to use

541
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: some grace. His inability to ever have grace at any

542
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: moment in time is what happened to him in his

543
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: life that he feels this way. Like I said, the

544
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: easy way to sort of deal with this here is

545
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: to say, you know, and you know all these things

546
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: are true. Right. It undermines his credibility, It undermines his leaderships.

547
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 1: Half the country doesn't feel like like like Britume said,

548
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: it's not just worth opposing him. And so then when

549
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 1: you hate somebody, you're never going to give him credit

550
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: for anything because somebody with such terrible character like this.

551
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: And this is why I am a huge I vote

552
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: on character. I only vote on character because ultimately character

553
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: counts more than a political position, because character matters, at

554
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: the end of the day, more than anything else. If

555
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: you have bad character, you're willing to change your position

556
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: for unprincipled reasons. So give me character any day of

557
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: the week over I'll take somebody who I disagree with

558
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: with ninety nine percent of the time, who I know

559
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: has higher character than the person I agree with, say

560
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: sixty seventy percent of the time. A low character person

561
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: will eventually tear you down with them and when you

562
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: hand low character people your credibility, they will piss it away.

563
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: So I do. I vote very much on character. And

564
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 1: it's moments like this that are a reminder that character

565
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: matters here when our president can't, ever, when this president

566
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: can't ever rise above any sort of personal, partisan, personal grievance,

567
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: you know, and it goes back to the investigation itself.

568
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: You know, the great failure of the Mueller investigation is

569
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: the fact that we did nothing about the crime that

570
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: did happen. In plain site, the Russians interfered with our

571
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: presidential election. The Russians attempted to influence our elections. A foreign, hostile,

572
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: foreign actor did this. Those facts are not in dispute,

573
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: right Well, the Mula report was about was whether the

574
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: Trump campaign actively worked with the Russians to do this

575
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: or simply was happy to be the beneficiary. I happened

576
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: to think just simply being happy to being the beneficiary

577
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: was a pretty unpatriotic thing to do, right I'm old

578
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: enough to remember when a guy like Marco Rubio said, no, no, no,

579
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 1: I'm not quoting WikiLeaks because I know that's a Russian

580
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: intelligence operation. I'm old enough to remember when a John

581
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: McCain and Barack Obama, who both had their campaigns hacked,

582
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: went to the FBI before making a public and somehow

583
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: trying to turn it into a partisan Whig issue. And

584
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: I guess if we want to look back, but the

585
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is the Mueller Report absolutely

586
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: confirmed the suspicions that at the highest levels of the

587
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: Russian government they were trying to do everything it took

588
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: to elect Donald Trump president. Whether that meant Donald Trump

589
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 1: committed a crime or not, that evidence was harder to prove.

590
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: There was a lot of circumstantial evidence and if being

591
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: if benefiting from the hack was a crime, then they

592
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 1: committed a lot of them. You know, I've always thought

593
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: there is one one culprit we've never found in the

594
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen elections, and that is who curated the emails

595
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: for Julian assanj and WikiLeaks because they were not released

596
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 1: randomly like the Epstein files. And now we know the situation.

597
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: If you recall, Wiki leaks was well collated, right, was

598
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: well curated, It was very well timed. There was an

599
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: American who did this. The Russians were not good at

600
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: sort of like you know, over time, right, we ended

601
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: up discovering that they weren't good with our language, and

602
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: so some of the ads that they bought were easily

603
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 1: seen as attempts to be it was outsiders attempting to influenced.

604
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: But over time they learned to, you know, start to

605
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: use third parties, and Julian Assange was a was an

606
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: easy target, and so he was the third party. They

607
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: stole all these emails from using a phishing scam on

608
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: John Podesta, pretty simple one. But the emails were curated,

609
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,720
Speaker 1: and that's always, you know, and they were curated really smartly,

610
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: like somebody that understood the Washington media ecosystem, not just

611
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: the American political ecosystem. So this was definitely an American consultant,

612
00:38:52,719 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: an American, a knowledgeable American political human being of some sort.

613
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: Because if you they were always very well timed, very specific,

614
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: you know, it was all about and they and it

615
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: had a strategic you know, the the you know, it's

616
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: not like they were just randomly released. You know, we

617
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: got the Bernie the Bernie Hillary controversial emails right when

618
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: the start of the DNC convention, right and you have

619
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: these systemic ways of trying to cherry pick an email

620
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: from a reporter to try to discredit a media outlet, right,

621
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: it was, so the whole thing was very well orchestrated.

622
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: And you know, I've always been a little bit surprised

623
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: that very little law enforcement had been focused on that.

624
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: And perhaps if Julian A. Sanja had ever talked, had

625
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: ever been been in the US system, we might have

626
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: learned more from him. But in some ways they were.

627
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: The focus was so much on Trump and this is

628
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: what Trump did. You know, Trump said, hey, look, no collusion,

629
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,479
Speaker 1: no collusion. Well, collusion to me was not the crime

630
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: that was committed in twenty sixteen. The crime that was

631
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: committed was our hostile foreign actor hacked our elections and

632
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: had and successfully pulled it off. Okay, that's it. And

633
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: and Donald Trump was just the first campaign that didn't

634
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: put the country before himself, right, And so that's may

635
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: not be illegal, but that's pretty unethical and arguably against

636
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: the national interests in the United States. And what's really

637
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: sad is what happened to one time, truly, you know

638
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: what one time, you know, American patriots like Lindsey Graham

639
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: and Marco Rubio who cared a lot about what the

640
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: Russians were doing, and all of these hacks and knew

641
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: full well what the Russians were up to. Now, there's

642
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: no doubt there was zeal on the left, and I

643
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: think that that, you know, Muller's reputation got harmed as

644
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: much by the over promising of the left about what

645
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: Muller was going to find as much as what Donald

646
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: Trump's character assassination tweets to him as well. But the

647
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: biggest failure of the Mueller investigation is the lack of

648
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: follow up and the lack of essentially public conviction of

649
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: the Russians for twenty sixteen. And you know, I get

650
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: it right, Donald Trump didn't want his presidency delegitimized by

651
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: admitting to that aspect of things. So there was an

652
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: entire effort made that you cannot even even copping to

653
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: the Russians hacked was a was going to delegitimize his presidency,

654
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: and that was something that they wanted to fight very

655
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: very hard, and over time, more Republicans put the party

656
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: over the country as this thing dragged on. Look, I

657
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: think I think the Mueller you know, I think, you know,

658
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: like with everything, know, Muller tried to play by a

659
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: set of rules that Donald Trump was never going to

660
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: play by and he got played by him. They dragged

661
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: it out, and the longer they dragged it out, the

662
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: easier it was, and the more sort of tactical Muller was.

663
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: I think again, the north star got lost, and that's

664
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: ultimately what happened. The north star of this investigation got lost.

665
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: What was not in dispute was what the Russians did.

666
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: What was in dispute and was not in dispute is

667
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: that there were Americans that helped. And perhaps, you know, look,

668
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: in some ways, Trump's behavior ended up being a distraction,

669
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: right the firing of Komi. He was Everything he did

670
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: there he may have been doing simply because he wanted

671
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: to clear the decks of the investigation. You know, if

672
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: I'm I'm open to any angle being true, but you're

673
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: gonna have to have evidence in the other angle on

674
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: this one when it comes to, you know, Trump collusion.

675
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 1: But the fact been there hasn't been strong enough evidence

676
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: on that. What there is strong evidence on this. The

677
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: Russians did this they were hoping Trump would benefit. There

678
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: were people within Trump's orbit who knew what the Russians

679
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: were up to and wanted to find ways to exploit

680
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: it to their benefit. The question was whether any of

681
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: that rose to criminal activity. But it was certainly on

682
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: American and it was certainly against America's national interests. And

683
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: that is where, in particular, in some ways, both parties

684
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: let us down on this, right. The Democrats so obsessed

685
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: with getting Trump that they took the eye off the

686
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: larger picture here, the thing that everybody should have had

687
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: seventy eighty percent sort of agreement on. And then of

688
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: course the Republican Party not, you know, basically turning a

689
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: blind eye to what the Russians did because fearing that

690
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,720
Speaker 1: if they didn't it was somehow going to help. So Look,

691
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is Bob Muller was a

692
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: terrific FBI director, brought a lot of credibility to the FBI,

693
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: lived a life of public service, served this country in uniform.

694
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: Could have done better on the Mulor investigation, There's no

695
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: doubt about it. But he did not deserve the disgusting,

696
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,320
Speaker 1: horrible treatment by our sitting in president of the United States.

697
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: And I would just ask all of you to ask yourself,

698
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: how did what is wrong with him? Right? Imagine not

699
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: being able to show grace to somebody who dies after

700
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: complications of Parkinson's, the lack of grace, his inability. This

701
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: is not who we are, As John Jack Danforth said

702
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: on my podcast, aren't we better than this hate? Fellow

703
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: Republicans out there, are you comfortable with how he is

704
00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: just totally destroyed the image of the Republican Party. That

705
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: people assume that this is now callous. You be callous,

706
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 1: You root for the death of people you politically disagree with.

707
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: I'm old enough to remember when folks on the right

708
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: were angry, when folks on the left weren't properly mourning.

709
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: Charlie kirk As, the First Lady of the United States,

710
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 1: likes to say, mister President once should be better, but

711
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: more importantly, maybe he's incapable of being better. But I'm

712
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: old enough to remember when they were members of the

713
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: Republican Party who knew how to be better. And I know, yeah,

714
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: I'll just ignore. It's just trumpy and Trump. No, he's

715
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: taking you down with him. This episode of the Chuck

716
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: Toddcast is brought to you by Soul. So if you

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738
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742
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743
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: And yes, I too, am a customer. Well, it is Monday,

744
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: which means we're going to step into the time machine.

745
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: And as I gave you in the hint in the monologue,

746
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:50,760
Speaker 1: nuclear energy was your clue. March twenty eighth, nineteen seventy

747
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: nine is where we're going in the time machine. So

748
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: if you drive about two hours west of Philadelphia, in

749
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 1: about two and a half maybe three hours east of Pitts,

750
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,479
Speaker 1: you're going to come to the Susquehanna River just south

751
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania's the state capitol, Harrisburg. And there's a

752
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: small island there, three mile Island. That's where this story

753
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: takes place. And if you were alive in nineteen seventy nine,

754
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: you probably remember it the way I do. It was

755
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: fragments a news bulletin the word radiation. You'd hear that sound,

756
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: a sense that something serious was happening, but no one

757
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 1: could quite explain what I was seven. I remember the

758
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: anxiety more than the facts. Right, Three Mile Island ooh right,

759
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: just say that three words, right, and it immediately triggers

760
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: something in me. Yet you have to look up the details, right,

761
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: And in a way that's the story. Though it's the fear,

762
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: not the details, that makes this time machine an important

763
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: lesson for us. So in March twenty eight, nineteen seventy nine,

764
00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 1: a nuclear reactor and three Mile Island partially melted down.

765
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: There was no explosion, there were no mass casualties, but

766
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: something else broke confidence. To understand the shock, you have

767
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: to understand the expectations what we thought nuclear power was

768
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: going to be in the sixties and seventies, right, you know,

769
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: so we get the nuclear bomb and we use it,

770
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: and we have you know, Oppenheimer, and we have all this,

771
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 1: you know, we have all these handering about nuclear weapons.

772
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: But there was excitement about nuclear energy, and in the

773
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: sixties and seventies, the United States was building nuclear power

774
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 1: plants rapidly. By the late seventies, there were roughly one

775
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: hundred reactors operating or under construction. Dozens more were in

776
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: the planning stages. The promise was extraordinary, massive energy output,

777
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: no air pollution, less dependence on fore and oil. Something

778
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: going on in the Middle East at the moment. Sorry,

779
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: but I digress. Nuclear power was supposed to be the future. Basically,

780
00:49:57,960 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: the only thing we were debating is where to put

781
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: the waste. But that early morning on March twenty eighth,

782
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: a pump failed. Pressure rose a really valve opened to

783
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: release it. That part worked, but then the valve got

784
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:19,919
Speaker 1: stuck open. And here's the critical failure. The control room

785
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: indicator said the valve had closed, Well it hadn't closed.

786
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 1: Cooling water was escaping, but the operators didn't know that

787
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,320
Speaker 1: at the moment. What the operator saw was falling pressure

788
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: and assumed the system had too much water, so they

789
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 1: reduced the cooling flow. So in reality, the reactor was

790
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: losing cooling. They were acting logically based on the warning

791
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 1: system they were staring at, but it was incorrect information.

792
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,319
Speaker 1: It wasn't a single failure, but it turned into a

793
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: cascade yet a mechanical failure, misleading instrumentation and then of

794
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: course incorrect human interpretation. So without cooling, without that cooling water,

795
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: the core overheated. The fuel rods were damaged, a partial

796
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: meltdown did occur, hydrogen gas formed inside the reactor vessel.

797
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: In fact, a bubble of hydrogen built up, and for

798
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: several days, experts feared that bubble of hydrogen could explode,

799
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: and that was the fear that drove the national headlines.

800
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: This became a feeding frenzy. Later scientists would determine that

801
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: the bubble actually never could have ignited in that environment

802
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: because there was never enough oxygen, but they didn't know

803
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: that at the moment, and there was a lot of fear.

804
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: And this is the key. We never figured out the

805
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: facts of everything that was happening and understood the science

806
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: even until after the fact, and most disconcerting in the moments,

807
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 1: and this of course is why public confidence just on nuke's.

808
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: The experts at the time weren't sure. So what the

809
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: public saw was the following. Harrisburg was just a few

810
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: miles away. That's a large city, state capitol Philadelphia one

811
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: hundred miles east, Pittsburgh two hundred miles west. This wasn't

812
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: going to have if this explosion wasn't going to happen

813
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 1: in a remote area. This was happening near state capitol

814
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 1: in a populated corridor in this country. So what people

815
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: experienced was mass confusion. The plant operator, Metropolitan Medicine they

816
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: would say one thing, The Nuclear Regulatory Commission they would

817
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 1: say another. Information was changing hour to hour. Even the

818
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: institutions responsible for explaining the situation weren't aligned. And then

819
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: there was something else. Pop culture had kind of already

820
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 1: primed the public for a catastrophe. Twelve days earlier, a

821
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 1: movie called The China Syndrome had opened in theaters. That

822
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: movie depicted a nuclear accident and then a cover up.

823
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 1: So now suddenly people were watching the news and wondering

824
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 1: if fiction had become reality. And remember movies in the

825
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: late seventies, there were big events. Okay, millions, everybody was

826
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 1: staying movies. We had no streaming, right, we just had

827
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: our three channels. Maybe a handful of people had this

828
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: weird thing called home box Office, with this little weird

829
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: thing that they could access on weekends only. But the

830
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: movies were a big deal. And I remember my parents

831
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 1: saw that movie. Jane Fonda was in it. You're going

832
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:46,959
Speaker 1: to see those movies. President Jimmy Carter visited the site

833
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: on April first, And remember he wasn't just a politician.

834
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 1: He was a trained nuclear engineer under Admiral Recover. So

835
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: in theory, we had the right president to deal with

836
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: the situation like this is he understood the technology. But

837
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: images of Carter walking through the plant in protective gear

838
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: were broadcast nationwide. The American president wasn't safe in America.

839
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 1: He actually was doing this to try to reassure the public,

840
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: but the images did the exact opposite. Does it reinforced

841
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: how serious the situation had become. And this is where

842
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: the psychology shifted. Radiation is invisible. You can't see it,

843
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: you can't smell it, and you can't feel it. The

844
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: only way to detect it is with instruments Geiger counters

845
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: clicking in the background. That creates distance. The public has

846
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 1: to rely on experts to tell them whether they're safe.

847
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: They don't get to tell themselves. That's an uncomfortable feeling, right.

848
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: We would learn this during COVID. How much the public

849
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,280
Speaker 1: would push back on that feeling, and when those experts

850
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: appear uncertain, that trust begins to erode again, something we

851
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: all experienced during COVID. Right when the specifics of what

852
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: the expert says that's and quite play out the way

853
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: they say it does and ironically, and here's the single

854
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: most important fact you should take away from this episode.

855
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: There were no immediate deaths and no officially confirmed fatalities

856
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: from this accident, but for the people living nearby, the

857
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 1: uncertainty never did end. The question what if has never

858
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 1: fully gone away. To this day. There are various entities

859
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 1: still testing for radiation poisoning, seeing what's happened, things like that.

860
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: And this is where this became a real break. It's

861
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: not just is nuclear power safe if it becomes will

862
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: we understand it when it fails? And more importantly, will

863
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 1: we believe the explanation? Now, this ended up having a huge,

864
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: huge consequences that we're still feeling today. We're at war

865
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: in the Middle East, arguably because of Three Mile holeur

866
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 1: Let me explain, before nineteen seventy nine, nuclear expansion was steady.

867
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:59,280
Speaker 1: After nineteen seventy nine, new plant orders stopped, projects were canceled,

868
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:04,720
Speaker 1: costs or regulations tightened. The United States didn't ban nuclear energy,

869
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 1: but it stopped building towards a nuclear future. We basically,

870
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: I mean, look at it now, we're just maintaining the

871
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: power plants that are because I think we're afraid of

872
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 1: shutting them down, and we need the power. But all

873
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 1: of this had consequences. By stopping the nuclear clock, we

874
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 1: didn't just stop building plants, We started building dependency. Every

875
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 1: megawatt not generated by nuclear had to come from somewhere else.

876
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: Usually that meant burning something coal, gas, or oil, and

877
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: that continued reliance has tied the United States to the

878
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: global energy markets, including the Middle East. Now Three Mile

879
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 1: Island alone has not stopped us from having a nuclear ambition.

880
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: But every time confidence is about to return into the

881
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: nuclear energy space, something else happens. In the nineteen eighties,

882
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: the industry tried to recover. Then came Chernobyl in nineteen

883
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: eighty six. Reactor explodes, massive radiation release, global shock. Confidence

884
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: collapses in nuclear energy again. And yes it was a

885
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:19,479
Speaker 1: different plant, it was bad Soviet maintenance. There's all sorts

886
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: of explanations and rationales. This couldn't happen here, and this

887
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 1: hasn't happened here, right, We haven't had radiation leaks. We didn't.

888
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: We don't have a we don't have a no go

889
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 1: zone anywhere, right like they do with Chernobyl. Decades later,

890
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: climate concerns seemed to change the conversation. Nuclear energy was

891
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: coming back because people saw nuclear as cleaner, more necessary.

892
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: In twenty ten the Obama administration, so it was an

893
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: important moment right Democrats was mostly the left that was

894
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 1: pushing the anti new movement more so than the right,

895
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: though nim not in my backyard was sort of prevalent

896
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: left and right. But it was a big step because

897
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, the environmental community to this day has always

898
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: and divided on nuclear energy about half or or four

899
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 1: because it's the cleanest, cheapest energy that's realistic, and others

900
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: fear that you know, have embedded in them the fear

901
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: of what could go wrong. So in twenty ten, the

902
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 1: Obama administration approved support for new nuclear plants, first ones

903
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: we'd seen in decades. Momentum returned briefly because then came

904
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: Fukushima in twenty eleven. Earthquake, tsunami, cooling failure, meltdowns again

905
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: totally different cause right, Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima

906
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: all failed for different reasons. One was the weather event,

907
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: one was probably bad maintenance and bad facility management, and

908
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: one was a mechanical failure. But we had the same result.

909
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 1: After Fukushima, fear returned and momentum stacked. So three Mile Island,

910
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: Chernobyl Fukushima. Each time a complex system fails and explanation

911
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 1: is differult the risk feels existential, public confidence collapses, and

912
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: policy follows. And this is the moment to linger on

913
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: because Three Mile Island didn't end nuclear power, but it

914
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 1: changed the trajectory. If the US had continued building plants

915
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: through the eighties and nineties, our energy system today might

916
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: look very different. It's not a certainty, but it was

917
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: a real fork on the road. And I'm serious. Would

918
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: we be in the Middle East today? Where would we

919
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: be in the climate conversation? Would our Earth cleaned up

920
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 1: a lot sooner? Would the temperature of the planet not

921
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: be as high as it is. This isn't just about trust,

922
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 1: It's about understanding and so when people and this is

923
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: a real lesson that we need to figure out how

924
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 1: to do better. Our public policy leaders need to figure

925
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: out how communicate better. Scientists need to figure out to

926
00:59:55,280 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: speak American, not just technical English, textbook English. Because when

927
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: people don't understand a risk, especially one that can kill

928
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: you invisibly, they'll always choose caution, always, always, always, and

929
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: that caution will get passed down to other generations. It's survival,

930
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: its human nature, and that's what's happened here. We're multiple

931
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 1: generations now where we have this reticence on nuclear energy,

932
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: and we also have a new technology out there that

933
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: has got a lot of skepticism about it, artificial intelligence,

934
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: and it's very similar nuclear. Right, the experts can't quite

935
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 1: explain how it works. Oh, it hallucinates, What the hell

936
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: does that mean? Right, it's not great. I think one

937
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: of the reasons AI has a negative right when the

938
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: designers themselves struggle to explain the outcome. Right, So the

939
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: question doesn't become is this safe? The question is if

940
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: it fails, will we understand why it failed? And will

941
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: we believe the explanation. So if you go back to

942
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: three Mile Island today, it's quiet. Unit two never operated again.

943
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: Unit one has continued for decades, but they shut it

944
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 1: down in twenty nineteen. What was one supposed to represent

945
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,919
Speaker 1: the future of energy became something else, a symbol of doubt.

946
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 1: March twenty eighth, nineteen seventy nine, a reactor partially melted,

947
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: But what really changed was something harder to measure, confidence

948
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: in nuclear energy, and once confidence in a system breaks

949
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 1: or in an idea breaks, especially when people don't fully understand.

950
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 1: The consequences don't last for years, they last for generations.

951
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: And what are the unattended consequences? I mean, I you know,

952
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 1: is it three more wars in the Middle East? Or

953
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: if we go down, if we expand nuclear reactors at

954
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: the same rate we were building them in the sixties

955
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 1: and seventies, Are there no more wars in the Middle East?

956
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 1: Or at least no more than involve the United States?

957
01:01:55,680 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: As they used to say it my old employer, that

958
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: might be one to grow on. Ask Chuck still a

959
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 1: little last Chuck. This question comes from Chris Moorsville, North Carolina,

960
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 1: and he writes Trump frequently uses phrases like radical left

961
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: lunatics to describe Democrats, and his consistent vilification the opposition

962
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: party feels more extreme than what I remember from past

963
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: presidents or the same age. I'm curious about your perspective.

964
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 1: Both parties have used unflattering language like liberal and conservative

965
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 1: for years. By the way, isn't it weird that we've

966
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 1: turned liberal and conservative into unflattering language. They're just simply

967
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: descriptors that I think still we should not waste. But

968
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 1: you are correct, we do weaponize those two words. But

969
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 1: his rhetoric referring to Trump seems different in tone and intensity.

970
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: Is his language actually more extreme historically? Or have other

971
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: presidents used similarly harsh rhetoric to frame their political opponents?

972
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: Love the podcast and really have enjoyed following your move

973
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: into independent journalism. So you know, if I want to

974
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 1: defend Trump's use of rhetoric, I can go back to

975
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century and find a lot of crappy stuff

976
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 1: and a lot of nasty stuff. Right. I can go

977
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: into the Nixon tapes. Right, you can hear some things

978
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: you can't believe a president but uttered, but they were

979
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: never meant to be uttered in public. Right. I think

980
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: that where I would draw a line and where you're

981
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: trying to go here. So look, there's no doubt our

982
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: politics were really personal and sometimes not just you know,

983
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: both rhetorically violent and sometimes physically violent in the nineteenth century,

984
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: and considering that we thought an actual civil war? Is

985
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: that really surprising considering that it did lead to a

986
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: civil war. But I think by me going back to

987
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century to say, you know, do we have

988
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 1: examples of harsh rhetoric like this. You have to go

989
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 1: back to the nineteenth century. You know, that shouldn't make

990
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: you feel better about this. In fact, it probably I

991
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: may have may be making you feel even more concerned

992
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: about this. Look, I do think you know, Trump's words matter.

993
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 1: A president's words matter. They leave an impression. They can

994
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 1: serve as a permission slip. Right. If the president of

995
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: the United States thinks it's okay to be little somebody,

996
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 1: then why isn't it okay to be little somebody? Right?

997
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 1: If the president of the United States thinks it's okay

998
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: to say this, then it must be okay to say this. Right.

999
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: That's and it is different. And in the modern era

1000
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 1: it's been different. You know. Ever since when presidential words

1001
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: have been put on tape or have been heard or

1002
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 1: seen or heard rather than read, right, there were plenty

1003
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 1: of harsh I mean, that's the thing. All the nineteenth century.

1004
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 1: Harsh rhetoric is sort of quotes in print, right, you don't,

1005
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: but when you hear it, see it, it's you know,

1006
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: it's instantaneous, and it stems from a belief. You know.

1007
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: I've been through this with him. I've had these conversations

1008
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: with him about the use of his harsh rhetoric, and

1009
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: I said, you know, and he goes, oh, it's just

1010
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 1: he thinks it's just hyperbole, and that's how he defends it.

1011
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 1: I'm just you know, it's over the top. It's I

1012
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 1: think I've used this compared, you know. I think in

1013
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: his head he thinks it's no different than than the

1014
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: rhetoric professional wrestlers use at each other. You know, they

1015
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: don't really hate each other, but they use all this

1016
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 1: crazy rhetoric. It's it's a script It's a soap opera, right,

1017
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 1: which is what professional wrestling is scripted. And I think

1018
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 1: in Trump's head this is this is political rhetoric because

1019
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how often. I mean, I had

1020
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 1: a direct confrontation with him in a room full with

1021
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: other media executives who just sat there silently in the

1022
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 1: fricking cowards. But this is before that. This is in

1023
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 1: the run up to the first term, where nobody else

1024
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 1: was gonna and I said, look, when you name drop,

1025
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: I just simply said, when you name drop, And it

1026
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 1: was one of our correspondents, And whenever he would utter

1027
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 1: her name, literally instantaneous hate and threats would come at

1028
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 1: her all over the place. And I said, you know, look,

1029
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 1: nobody's telling you you want to bash the press, bash

1030
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: the press, but do it generally. I said, when you

1031
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 1: name somebody individually, you think it's all in good fun

1032
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: because he has said, oh, that's good for your ratings.

1033
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 1: When he would, you know, he called me a son

1034
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: of a bitch. And what's always bothered me about that

1035
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: moment when he called me a son of a bitch

1036
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 1: at a rally. Was the first person to tell me

1037
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: about it was my then fifteen year old daughter who

1038
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 1: saw it on Instagram. So I've always you know, it

1039
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 1: was like, I'm fine, you know, I don't I don't

1040
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: you know, I it's funny. In my thirties and forties,

1041
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: I cared sort of in my late forties and fifties.

1042
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: I just, you know, I know it's meaningless rhetoric, but

1043
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 1: it is sad when you see people assume and what

1044
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 1: happens is they project all sorts of things on me, right,

1045
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 1: you know, they hear his rhetoric and then assume that, well,

1046
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 1: we must hate him if he's saying this about us,

1047
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 1: so we must be unfair to him, right, And that's

1048
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 1: really what this is designed to do. Right, It's just

1049
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: design to other eyes, anybody who's potentially a credible critic

1050
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: of his, and so he's trying to delegitimize and in

1051
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 1: some cases dehumanize. But there is a part of his

1052
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: brain that thinks it's just this is all part of

1053
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 1: a show, and he's got to play his part and

1054
01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: he expects to get as good as he gives. Right,

1055
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 1: that's what he would say. Now, of course he doesn't

1056
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: handle it when he actually when people do fire back

1057
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: at him. But look, it's why I just, you know,

1058
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: I don't. It's easy to fire back on him. I'm

1059
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 1: a muller. It's easy to fire and this stuff, I

1060
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: do think it desensitizes people. I think it What it

1061
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 1: really does is that it for those that are for

1062
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: the meant, for the less stable partisan, it gives them

1063
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 1: a permission slip to to not treat somebody like a

1064
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 1: human fellow human being, but somebody below that meaning they're

1065
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 1: willing to commit violence, willing to do things. And so look,

1066
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: I think it's terrible. And you know, the first term

1067
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: there would be people that would denounce when he would

1068
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,640
Speaker 1: do this stuff. The biggest difference between term one and

1069
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:35,560
Speaker 1: term two is everybody just ignores it. And looks the

1070
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: other way. The question is, well, how is it conditioning

1071
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: this right, and how it means we're normalizing this and

1072
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: we should never normalize this right. And it is disconcerting

1073
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 1: to me that the Democrats that are doing that, are

1074
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 1: getting the most traction, are the ones that are willing

1075
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 1: to sort of engage in the same rhetoric. And I

1076
01:08:55,880 --> 01:09:02,639
Speaker 1: understand the emotional relief it may give you in a moment,

1077
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: that doesn't build a more perfect union. We know it

1078
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 1: does not. So look, I struggle with you know, It's

1079
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 1: like I could you could spend every hour of every

1080
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 1: day calling out his unethical, immoral, and unpresidential and unpatriotic behavior.

1081
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: There's a point where you come across as Charlie Brown's,

1082
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 1: as the adults in a Charlie Brown cartoon wan wah

1083
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: wah wah wah wah, and then fewer and fewer people listen.

1084
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: But I do want to encourage people who I think,

1085
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 1: you know, don't have a lot of trust right now

1086
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: in either party, maybe did vote for Trump once or

1087
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 1: twice because they didn't like what the Democrats were offering,

1088
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: or they didn't you know, they thought, you know what,

1089
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 1: maybe yes, he's a bore, but his disruption hopefully will

1090
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 1: sober everybody up. Here's what I would tell you if

1091
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 1: your hope was it would sober everybody up. It didn't work.

1092
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 1: People want to get drunker on rhetoric now and people

1093
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 1: want to you know, seemed to is it is what

1094
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 1: we have done, right? What you hoped you were going

1095
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 1: to get out of him shaking up the system. What

1096
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 1: it has done is chase the good people away and

1097
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 1: has invited some real dirt bags to show up into

1098
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: the political space. And these people are going to be

1099
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:21,200
Speaker 1: more grifty than ever, more exploitive of the system than ever,

1100
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:25,720
Speaker 1: and they're going to be voted in when they win.

1101
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:28,680
Speaker 1: They're going to believe they have a mandate essentially to

1102
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 1: do and behave this way because hey, he did it

1103
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:37,080
Speaker 1: and they won by basically fighting fire with fire. So

1104
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: I think what the intent of what the disruption would

1105
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 1: do and what has actually happened. I understand the need

1106
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 1: for disruption. I think the better way to disrupt this

1107
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 1: system now is to go find an independent because I

1108
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 1: think both parties are afraid. Both parties want power more

1109
01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 1: than they want the country to move on. That's my concern,

1110
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: all right, Next question, comes from Jim Wade. He says, Hey,

1111
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 1: I enjoy your podcast immensely. Thank you, and I have

1112
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 1: a brief question. I've heard you mentioned President Garfield several

1113
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 1: times in almost what might have been tone. You made

1114
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:16,640
Speaker 1: me curious to learn more about the man and how

1115
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:18,600
Speaker 1: things might have gone differently had he lived. Can you

1116
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: recommend some books I might read? Thanks in advance. Yes,

1117
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 1: Destiny of the Republic is the one that the Netflix

1118
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 1: series was based on. There's three that I'm going to recommend.

1119
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 1: Destiny of the Republic is the one I was just

1120
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:35,720
Speaker 1: telling about. That's Candice Millards. That book was the basis

1121
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 1: death of Death by Lightning the Netflix series. There's another

1122
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 1: one called dark Horse that was written by an old

1123
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 1: Senate staffer. It is It's called The Surprise Election and

1124
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,679
Speaker 1: Political Murder of President James A. Garfield by Kenneth Ackerman.

1125
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 1: He wrote that nearly twenty three years ago. It is fantastic,

1126
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 1: spends a lot of time in the convention. I love

1127
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,479
Speaker 1: the political side of things. You could tell. It's very

1128
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 1: much written by a Washington insider and I say that

1129
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:05,559
Speaker 1: with love. And then there's a newish book out by

1130
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 1: a historian named C. W. Goodyear that is more more

1131
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 1: about Garfield the person in general and his upbringing. Look,

1132
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 1: he is that every every sort of mythology about you know,

1133
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:27,679
Speaker 1: anybody can become president, you know, and the nominating comment,

1134
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:32,679
Speaker 1: all these things. Garfield is the origin story. So those

1135
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 1: three books, like I said, Goodyear, Garfield Expansively, Destiny of

1136
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,879
Speaker 1: the Republic and Dark Horse are both about more about

1137
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:47,040
Speaker 1: just the incidents themselves. And there's some tremendous books about

1138
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 1: the Gaetau trial itself that in alone, like the trial

1139
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 1: of Gatoau because he was alive. Garfield was still alive

1140
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 1: when the trial started. I mean, it's just so, but

1141
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 1: those are those would be the big three that I'd

1142
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 1: recommend there. Thanks Jim. Next question comes from mattin Connecticut,

1143
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 1: and he says, Hey, I enjoy the podcast and the

1144
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 1: way you present all sides of an issue. The lifelong

1145
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:08,640
Speaker 1: Democrat have a question about something you discussed on a

1146
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 1: recent episode. You mentioned how many independents would like to

1147
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 1: see more moderate policies from Democratic leaders. I have a

1148
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 1: liberal leaning view of social issues, but a more moderate

1149
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 1: view of fiscal issues. So I'm curious do you think

1150
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,559
Speaker 1: independence would like to see more Democrats moderate their views

1151
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:23,639
Speaker 1: on social issues or fiscal issues, any specific examples. Thanks

1152
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 1: and go yukon basketball. What's fun about ukon basketball is

1153
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 1: you guys. You guys get two shots with both tournaments,

1154
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 1: right with the men and the women. One goes down,

1155
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:37,440
Speaker 1: we got the other squad. You know, not all basketball

1156
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 1: programs have it as good as you talk, So kudos.

1157
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 1: So I want to go back to something I did

1158
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:48,800
Speaker 1: a few months ago when I was talking about the

1159
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 1: old FDR coalition and right, the biggest critique of the

1160
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 1: FDR coalition comes from the left, and it comes from

1161
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:59,760
Speaker 1: the social justice left because he would prioritize that can

1162
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 1: you know, sort of the economic populism over it. And

1163
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,840
Speaker 1: in some ways, you know, if FDR is criticized on

1164
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:09,679
Speaker 1: the left for anything, it's his lack of follow through

1165
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:13,559
Speaker 1: on desegregation, it's his lack of follow through on certain

1166
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 1: social justice issues. And you know, yes, he appointed the

1167
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 1: first woman Cabinet secretary, so it's not like he didn't

1168
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 1: move the ball forward. But you know, you had a

1169
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 1: culturally diverse country, a religiously diverse country, and yet he

1170
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 1: got them all united behind behind his economic policies. So

1171
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:44,680
Speaker 1: I would just say generally, economic security. And that's the

1172
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:49,920
Speaker 1: phrase I would use here, Matt. Economic security is how

1173
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 1: you can win the broadest swap of independence. Doesn't mean

1174
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 1: you're moderate, right, I think it's more. You know, I

1175
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 1: think this is where we need better language. Right, there's liberal,

1176
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:08,640
Speaker 1: it's really what are your focus? What's your focus? And

1177
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 1: the reason Bill Clinton and Barack Obama did so well

1178
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:14,759
Speaker 1: with the middle is that that they were always leaning

1179
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:19,320
Speaker 1: more into economic security. Right, whether it's healthcare, that's part

1180
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:25,640
Speaker 1: of your economic security. And so I think you know

1181
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 1: you can you can get more devoted supporters. This is

1182
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:35,839
Speaker 1: why primaries are usually more involved, more of the social issues,

1183
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:39,640
Speaker 1: because your core rank and file voters are more and

1184
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,640
Speaker 1: they've chosen a party based on those issues. They've not

1185
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 1: necessarily chosen a party based on economic issues. That's where

1186
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:48,880
Speaker 1: we vacillate the most. So it's just in general, I

1187
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:51,720
Speaker 1: just think it's it's it's I think you know what

1188
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 1: you just describe about your your cut between social and

1189
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:58,559
Speaker 1: fiscal issue and economic issues. Pretty much everybody in the

1190
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 1: right would express it the same way. I'm pretty conservative

1191
01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:04,240
Speaker 1: on this, but you know, I ultimately you know, you'll

1192
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 1: take a and that's why with Bill Clinton, you know,

1193
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:13,880
Speaker 1: he got the harshest political beat downs when he touched

1194
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:17,479
Speaker 1: things like guns, right, but he got but he was

1195
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: able to sort of keep his coalition and if anything,

1196
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 1: expand when he was focused solely on the economy in

1197
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:28,320
Speaker 1: some form or another. So I just think in general

1198
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 1: and look, and that I go back to something else

1199
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 1: I brought up recently. The base of the Democratic Party

1200
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,639
Speaker 1: is smaller than the base of the Republican Party, which

1201
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 1: means Democrats have to win more of the sort of

1202
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:44,679
Speaker 1: the less aligned voter, right, which means you're you're moderate,

1203
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 1: you know you're moderate, or your independent voter. And then

1204
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 1: the Republicans do right, they may may seventy percent of

1205
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: their voters are core voters, are base voters, and sixty

1206
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 1: percent of Democratic voters are base voters. Right, So to

1207
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:02,920
Speaker 1: get to the fifty percent, Democrats need more of the

1208
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 1: so called middle than the Republicans do. And because of that,

1209
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:08,920
Speaker 1: I think that's why they almost have to lean harder

1210
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 1: on the economic security issues. But that's the phrase I'd

1211
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:15,240
Speaker 1: be using. It's economic security, right. The fear of AI

1212
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 1: is not what it's doing. It's fear of losing a

1213
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:24,240
Speaker 1: secure economic future. Right. Economic security that is the phrase

1214
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 1: that pays in my opinion. Next question comes from Brad.

1215
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 1: Hey love the pods and the election night live streams.

1216
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 1: Feel like I learned something new every time? That is

1217
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: that is my chief goal, My goal when I listen

1218
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:38,720
Speaker 1: to something, did I learn one thing right? And if

1219
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:41,640
Speaker 1: I do, I go back and keep listening. So I

1220
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 1: appreciate you saying that, Brad. Question is why are Republicans

1221
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:47,719
Speaker 1: so much better than Democrats at messaging? Is it simply

1222
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 1: because they have a news channel watched by millions that

1223
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 1: does their bidding. Thanks? Ps. Assuming you're doing a livestream

1224
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:54,400
Speaker 1: for the midterms, is there a place I can send

1225
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:56,280
Speaker 1: pizza's next to help you with the team get through

1226
01:17:56,280 --> 01:18:00,800
Speaker 1: the night? Oh, Brad, that's awesome. To my friends at

1227
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 1: the d d HQ boiler room. They have an expansive

1228
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:08,519
Speaker 1: place at the on campus at Georgetown's Public Policy School,

1229
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 1: so I think I'll be directing all pizza. So enjoy,

1230
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 1: miss Kelley. If you've gone this long on the pod

1231
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:21,600
Speaker 1: and you're hearing you now see that my my my

1232
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 1: viewers want to feed you and Scott and the boys anyway,

1233
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:28,679
Speaker 1: So thank you for that, Brad. We will we will

1234
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:34,560
Speaker 1: probably take you up on that. I think on messaging

1235
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:38,960
Speaker 1: for what it's worth, I think each I you know,

1236
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 1: people on the right complain to me that the left's

1237
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:43,760
Speaker 1: better at messaging. People on the left complain to me

1238
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:46,800
Speaker 1: that the right's better at messaging. I think some of

1239
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 1: this is confirmation bias, right do I think? I think

1240
01:18:55,800 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 1: Democrats fear offending a certain There's always this extra fear

1241
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:05,439
Speaker 1: of offending an interest group that waters down language, which

1242
01:19:05,479 --> 01:19:08,559
Speaker 1: is why they sometimes don't always speak American. I always say,

1243
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:12,360
Speaker 1: don't speak English, speak American. I think the Republicans are

1244
01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:17,960
Speaker 1: better at talking to people that live between I five

1245
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:22,839
Speaker 1: and nine ninety five than Democrats do. I think Democrats

1246
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 1: worry too much about talking to people east of I

1247
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:30,880
Speaker 1: ninety five and west of I five. If you get

1248
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:35,360
Speaker 1: where I'm going right ninety five, the East Coast interstate

1249
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:38,720
Speaker 1: High five, the West coast interstate, I mean, and a

1250
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:42,839
Speaker 1: lot of their voters live it live, you know, between

1251
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 1: the ocean and that and those two interstates, and I

1252
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 1: think Democrats don't want to offend voters in those areas.

1253
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:52,559
Speaker 1: And I think Republicans do a better job of talking

1254
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:56,080
Speaker 1: to everybody in between, and they don't have the same

1255
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: interest groups holding them accountable in language that the left does.

1256
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 1: The language police on the left is a much more aggressive,

1257
01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 1: is much more aggressive at hitting their leaders on word

1258
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:17,800
Speaker 1: choices than the right is. So I think when you

1259
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:20,679
Speaker 1: factor all that in, I think it just it feels.

1260
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 1: I will tell you this. It always feels like both

1261
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:28,080
Speaker 1: everybody focus groups, it feels, but it feels more noticeable

1262
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:31,880
Speaker 1: with them with Democrats at times. But I will say this,

1263
01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:35,439
Speaker 1: I think some of this is the assumption that the

1264
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:37,560
Speaker 1: other side is always better at it right, grass is

1265
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 1: always greener mindset mark for ann arbor rights. Hey, it

1266
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 1: seems the authorities that run airports would benefit from implementing

1267
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:50,880
Speaker 1: programs that would provide payday loans to TSA agents based

1268
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:53,519
Speaker 1: at their airports. Given the benefit, seems the credit risk

1269
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:56,719
Speaker 1: would be acceptable. Participants could pledge their paycheck proceeds as security.

1270
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,000
Speaker 1: The airlines may also be interested in participating. Are you

1271
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 1: aware of any organization considering such a program. By the way,

1272
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 1: I watched the film Perfect Neighbor you discussed on one

1273
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:06,400
Speaker 1: of your recent podcasts. It was very well done and

1274
01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:09,599
Speaker 1: I was particularly impressed with how the police officers conducted themselves,

1275
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 1: very professional and competent in contrast with some of the

1276
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:14,400
Speaker 1: ICE agents that have been showing on selected videos. Markro

1277
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:17,720
Speaker 1: Man Arbor. Yeah, no, I'm by the way, I'm so

1278
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 1: glad you point that out in perfect neighbor. I think

1279
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:22,479
Speaker 1: I think that to me, it is an endorsement of

1280
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 1: body cameras, right. I mean, if you can't tell me

1281
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:31,640
Speaker 1: that doesn't change behavior or incentivize de escalation, I think

1282
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:33,559
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that it does. I mean that to me,

1283
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:36,439
Speaker 1: and I know that wasn't that's not the intended message

1284
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 1: in that movie, but it's certainly one that I think

1285
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:41,360
Speaker 1: for me, it just right, couldn't make the movie without

1286
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:44,719
Speaker 1: the body camera footage, and body camera footage didn't embarrass

1287
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:47,840
Speaker 1: the police officers, and in some cases it may have.

1288
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,240
Speaker 1: It certainly was an MRI on some you know, sort

1289
01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 1: of historical thing stereotypes, things like that, but it also

1290
01:21:56,720 --> 01:22:01,600
Speaker 1: served as a good reminder that it works. Right, you know,

1291
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:05,120
Speaker 1: what you're presenting is interesting. Can I just go another place?

1292
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:12,320
Speaker 1: We probably ought to privatize this, you know. Look, I

1293
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 1: think the fact that the government can just stop, we

1294
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:19,160
Speaker 1: know they're going to pay this, and the fact that

1295
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 1: they just it just automatically stops, right, it is the

1296
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:29,120
Speaker 1: system is you know, this is let me put it

1297
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:33,000
Speaker 1: in another way. We wouldn't have these standoffs if the

1298
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 1: system said that the standoff could happen. Right in some ways,

1299
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 1: the fact that you can stop funds is the feature,

1300
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 1: not the bug, and it should be a bug. I

1301
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:48,200
Speaker 1: go back to I don't understand how the shutdowns are legal,

1302
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:50,559
Speaker 1: Like we just we're the United States government. The idea

1303
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 1: that we can just suddenly hold up spending money out

1304
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:57,280
Speaker 1: of nowhere when we're you know, helping the entire global

1305
01:22:57,320 --> 01:23:01,960
Speaker 1: economy function, I mean, that just seems dangerous and sort

1306
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:04,840
Speaker 1: of a terrible idea. But if if we're going to

1307
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:07,479
Speaker 1: continue to sort of govern this way and allow this

1308
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:13,559
Speaker 1: dysfunctional method to budgeting that Congress does, then with something

1309
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:20,040
Speaker 1: as essential as our air travel, privatize tsa right, you know,

1310
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 1: government pays for it, but the funds, but basically they

1311
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:27,920
Speaker 1: are to get reimbursed by the federal government. So that

1312
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:30,639
Speaker 1: way then you would basically still have the same thing

1313
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 1: that you're describing. Right, the private entity continues to pay,

1314
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:35,519
Speaker 1: they're not going to get reimbursed for a while, but

1315
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:38,760
Speaker 1: they'd have a better They can withstand this better, and

1316
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:42,160
Speaker 1: they certainly, you know, it would create it, so you

1317
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 1: would have functioning security agents getting paid without having for

1318
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:53,360
Speaker 1: them to figure this out. Reliable security. You still have

1319
01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:56,760
Speaker 1: the same standards and everything, but if each you know,

1320
01:23:56,800 --> 01:23:59,559
Speaker 1: airport authority ought to run its own or privatize it

1321
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:02,840
Speaker 1: in some way. Again, privatize it with the strict with

1322
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:04,960
Speaker 1: the standards that we have. But there's no reason why

1323
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:06,679
Speaker 1: you couldn't do that. If you wanted to make sure

1324
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 1: that they had to be labor union jobs, you can

1325
01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:14,640
Speaker 1: privatize and and make sure and mandate, you know, opportunity

1326
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:17,160
Speaker 1: for labor unions or something like. So I think there,

1327
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:20,439
Speaker 1: I know the political debate that would take place to

1328
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:22,880
Speaker 1: do this and all this, I think you can accommodate

1329
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:26,679
Speaker 1: that and not disrupt the public intentionally the way lawmakers

1330
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 1: are disrupting the public intentionally here. So we shall see.

1331
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:38,759
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna call this an episode. I'm going

1332
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:46,200
Speaker 1: to hold myself back from lamenting, you know, because it's

1333
01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:50,559
Speaker 1: it's baseball time, right, We've got baseball season, that's what's coming.

1334
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:53,840
Speaker 1: First of all, I've got two fantasy drafts that I

1335
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:58,400
Speaker 1: couldn't be less I couldn't be less prepared for, and

1336
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:02,080
Speaker 1: the Nats just sent down the and Cruise to triple A.

1337
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:07,840
Speaker 1: Dylan Cruz, I hope will become more famous then right

1338
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:09,960
Speaker 1: now for what he's famous for. What he's famous for us.

1339
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:13,320
Speaker 1: He's the next guy picked after Paul Skins. Right the

1340
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:17,280
Speaker 1: LSU tim meets went one two, and there was supposedly

1341
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:22,720
Speaker 1: the pirates were debating between Cruise and Schemes. That's had

1342
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:28,280
Speaker 1: the second pick. What if we could have had Schemes

1343
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:30,080
Speaker 1: and not pitched him for two years the way we

1344
01:25:30,120 --> 01:25:33,760
Speaker 1: did with Strausburg. No, but I digress. But I'm a

1345
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:37,000
Speaker 1: little bummed out of that. But come on, Dylan, use

1346
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 1: this as motivation. I hope this is a temporary deal.

1347
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:46,160
Speaker 1: But man, this never ending rebuild. This is going to

1348
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:52,000
Speaker 1: be a rough year, and it's already feeling rougher thanks

1349
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 1: to the Dylan Cruiz news. But I said, I'm not

1350
01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:55,280
Speaker 1: going to go down that rabbit hole for now. He

1351
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 1: will be going down some baseball rabbit holes for you

1352
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:00,439
Speaker 1: very very soon. But with that, we'll call it an

1353
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 1: episode and I'll see in forty eight hours and do

1354
01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:06,559
Speaker 1: in twenty four hours. Be on the lookout for a

1355
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:10,600
Speaker 1: brand new podcast series that I'm going to be a

1356
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:13,200
Speaker 1: part of with one of one of the great sports

1357
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 1: journalists out there. I look forward to sharing it all

1358
01:26:17,439 --> 01:26:21,280
Speaker 1: with you Tuesday and then Wednesday, right here on this podcast.