1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: I am Yamla, your host for this journey. I was 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: a hopeless love aholic, but just could not get my 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 1: love to work. Then, after a series of heartbreaks and 4 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: deep heartache, I finally got clear about what love is 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: and what it is not. I want to share some 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: of what I've learned about love a holism. Welcome to 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: the r Spot, a production of shondaland Audio in partnership 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio. Great day, and welcome to the art Spot, 9 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: the place we come to talk about all kinds of 10 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: relationships and the issues that grow through our relationships. In 11 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: our relationships sometime the issues that tear down our relationships. 12 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: I am a Yamla, your host, your guide, your support system, 13 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: here to offer you a different perspective, perhaps a different approach, 14 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: to support you by offering tools and skills and information 15 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: that will help you make all of your relationships loving, fulfilling, 16 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: and hopefully peaceful. Yeah. Today we're talking about a very 17 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: important topic, co parenting, or what happens when the relationship 18 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: between the parents breaks down and there are children involved. 19 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: I have seen time and time again, and I'm sure 20 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: you have seen and you probably know about children who 21 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: become collateral damage in the fighting between parents, and what 22 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: happens when the initial relationship isn't really solid and a 23 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: child comes through that relationship. When the parents don't have 24 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: a good, solid relationships, perhaps it was just the thing 25 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: or a fling, and we weren't careful and conscious, so 26 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: we created a child that we're now trying to raise. 27 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: But the parents are fighting or disconnected, or perhaps they 28 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: don't really know each other well, the children become collateral damage. 29 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: Or what happens when there's the ending of a long 30 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: term relationship or a committed relationship where they were children, 31 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: and now, in addition to the house and the car 32 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: and the bank accounts and material possessions, the parents are 33 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: fighting among themselves and the children get caught up in 34 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: the middle. What happens when the holidays rolled around, or 35 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: if there's a funeral, or if there's a wedding, who 36 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: gets to bring the children? Who gets to speak to 37 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: the children. What happens when partners separate and one partner 38 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: has a new partner and the other partner doesn't want 39 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: the children exposed. I mean, there are so many issues 40 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: that go on when we're trying to co parent and 41 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: we haven't cleaned up the original relationship. We're going to 42 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: talk about that today and I hope to be able 43 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: to give you some insights, some information about how to 44 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: separate the husband, wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, father, mother from the 45 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: same people who are actually the parents of the children. 46 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: Let me say that again. I hope to give you 47 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: some insight, some information, a different perspective and approach so 48 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: that you can separate, make a distinction between who you 49 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: are as ex spouses or ex partners and who you 50 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: are as parents, because although you are one and the same, 51 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: your responsibilities, your approach, your perspective as parents who no 52 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: longer live together must be different. I've got some callers 53 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: on the line and we are going to talk to 54 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: them today and hopefully, hopefully we will get some new 55 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: ideas about how to co parent when the initial loving 56 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: relationship has fallen apart or broken down. Greetings beloved, and 57 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: welcome to the R Spot. We are talking today about 58 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: co parenting when the relationship between the parents isn't good 59 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: and they're trying to raise children together. Thank you for 60 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: joining us, and what is the issue you're bringing to 61 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: the table today? 62 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 2: Hello calling Because I was married for seventeen years and 63 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: the context of that marriage, we had four children, so 64 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 2: they're twenty two, twenty one, fourteen, and twelve. We've been 65 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 2: divorced for sixty year, or I call it happily unmarried 66 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: and delightfully divorced. I've been delightfully but divorced for six years. 67 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 2: And initially when we were still living in the same state, 68 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 2: the co parenting was kind of going okay, but we 69 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: now live in different states. So for two years they 70 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: were with me during the school year and then with 71 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 2: him during agreed upon breaks. And then that two year period, 72 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 2: he was frequently not showing up for visits and things 73 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 2: like that, which put me in a position to have 74 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: to explain to the kids, you know that he wasn't 75 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 2: showing up, and try to overcompensate for him not showing 76 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: up during the day, say he'd agreed to show up 77 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 2: during mediation. Since June, we've kind of switched that, so 78 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: there the younger two kids are now with him. They 79 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 2: were with him with us during the summer, there with 80 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 2: him during the school year, and I find that he's 81 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 2: micro managing my visits and so even though he wasn't 82 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: showing up for his visits, I'm showing up for my 83 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: agreed upon visits and trying to get ex additional visits. 84 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 2: So two things that have come up more recently. For 85 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 2: the winter break, according to our mediated agreement, I'm supposed 86 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: to be with them or they're supposed to be with 87 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 2: me from December twenty sixth to the thirty first, and 88 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 2: so I reached out to him to see if I 89 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: could get some extra time with them because they'll be 90 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 2: out of school longer than that. So I reached out 91 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: to him about this about seven weeks ago. And then 92 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: I also reached out to him because I recently quit 93 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 2: flash retired from being a philosophy professor, so I'm taking 94 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 2: kind of a personal sabbatical now. But I was offered 95 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: a research fellowship in Germany from January until June. And 96 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 2: so my youngest, the twelve year old, wants to come 97 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: with me to Germany. So I reached out to him 98 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 2: about seven weeks ago to say, you know, I'd like 99 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 2: to extend the winter break time with the kids and 100 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: Kalia would like to come with me to Germany. You know, 101 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: can we schedule a conversation about that. So after repeatedly 102 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 2: reaching out to him into the mediator's office over several weeks, 103 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 2: I was just able to get him to agree to 104 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 2: the conversation about the winter break next week, and then 105 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: he pushed out the mediation session all the way to 106 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: December twentieth of this year, even though I'm heading to 107 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: Germany like January fifteenth. So it's just been challenging to 108 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: negotiate the kind of micromanaging what feels like petty control 109 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 2: and pushing out decisions to the last possible moment over 110 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: something that I would have hoped that we could just 111 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 2: have conversations about sooner rather than later. 112 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: I just want to take a moment, Mama and just 113 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: acknowledge you, because so very often when the marriage or 114 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: the relationship between the parents break down, the mother kind 115 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: of claims possession of the children and would never would 116 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: never do you, hear me, I have seen it time 117 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: and time again, never allow her children and believe it 118 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: or not, particularly her son to go live with his father. 119 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: My goodness, Good for you, Good for. 120 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: You, thank you. I appreciate. I mean, it was definitely 121 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: a challenging decision, but I feel like, you know, it's 122 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 2: important for them to have a healthy relationship with both parents. 123 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: They have influences from both parents, and you know, with 124 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 2: him not showing up for his visits when they were 125 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 2: with me. I'm like, well, if they're with him, he 126 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: like he may not be able to show up emotionally, 127 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: but like they're you know, they get an opportunity to 128 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: kind of experience him for his hand and decide what 129 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 2: that relationship is going to be with him, because I 130 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 2: constantly have stressed to them my relationship with my husband 131 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: is not the same as their relationship with their father, 132 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: and so I try to differentiate those things. 133 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: Wow, wow, do you know how many people don't get that? 134 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: How many people don't get my relationship with my ex 135 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: is different than my children's relationship with their father. Two 136 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: different people all in the same body. One for you, 137 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: So you are like light years ahead of the game, 138 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: believe it or not. 139 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 2: Thank you. 140 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: Let's talk about this micro managing. Think what your experience 141 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 1: of that has been? What is that? 142 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 2: Well it has been you know, like I said specifically 143 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: with regard to trying to have conversations around the winter 144 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: break and trying to have conversations around the Germany trip, 145 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 2: like constantly avoiding and pushing that out instead of just 146 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: like sitting down and having that conversation, or like initially 147 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 2: the mediator said, well, you guys should probably have a 148 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: phone call check in at least once a month, like 149 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 2: at the beginning of the month. So we said we 150 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: would do that, but I'm constantly having to reach out 151 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 2: to him in order to set that out up. So 152 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: like the last conversation that we've actually had by phone 153 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: was like in August, because we haven't done these monthly 154 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 2: check ins. And then he is also remarried now, so 155 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 2: he wants to filter that through his wife as well, 156 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 2: and so so it's just it's interesting. 157 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: You've got to know that that could impact his ability 158 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: or willingness to be in communication with you. Do you know, oh, 159 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: his new wife, do you know her? 160 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 2: I don't know her personally, right, So they actually like 161 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: when he first started dating her, he told me that 162 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 2: he was, you know, dating somebody, and then and then 163 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: I found out through the kids that he was getting married, 164 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 2: and so I never even met her, like the during 165 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: the time that they were dating, during the time that 166 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 2: they were engaged, or even before they got married. The 167 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 2: first time I met her was actually I was I 168 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: wouldn't say by accident. Maybe it was serendissity. They were 169 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 2: in town to pick up the kids last summer when 170 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 2: the younger two kids were going to go with them 171 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: for the summer and we were going to the store 172 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 2: to pick something up for the youngest teacher, and she 173 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: happened to be in the store, and so they were like, oh, 174 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 2: this is you know, so and so and so. I 175 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 2: was like, oh, well, it's nice to finally actually meet 176 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 2: you in person. And she seemed really pleasant. We exchanged 177 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: numbers and she was saying, like, you know, Will I 178 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: tried to, you know, get him to introduce us, but 179 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 2: he kept avoiding it, and I didn't want to nag. 180 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 2: And she was like, you know, you probably don't believe me, 181 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, I believe you right, Like I 182 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 2: have no reason not to believe you, know, your account 183 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 2: of those events. She So, she seemed really pleasant at 184 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 2: the time. And then the next time we had a 185 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: conversation was with We did a family counseling session with him, 186 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 2: his wife, and myself. We did one with the adults 187 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 2: first and then with the kids, and then there she 188 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: seems definitely like, you know, co signing his position, which 189 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 2: I understand, you know, they're married, they're doing the United 190 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 2: Front thing. But then when several issues were raised about 191 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 2: what the kids' experiences had been with them last summer. 192 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 2: Then there was more of like a defensiveness from both 193 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: of them around you know they're doing you know, they're 194 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 2: saying their way, which I get, But I was trying 195 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 2: to explain to them, like, this is a major transition. 196 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 2: This was ahead of them, the kids going with them 197 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 2: this year, and so I'm like, it's a major transition 198 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 2: for the kids. They've only ever lived with me, you know, 199 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 2: give them some grace, give them some patience. And there 200 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 2: seemed to be just not a lot of grades and 201 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: patients and consideration for how they could transition. It was 202 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 2: for the younger two kids to go from having lived 203 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: with me their whole life and being with their older 204 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 2: two siblings to going solo to live with them, away 205 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 2: from me and away from their siblings. 206 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: Are the kids adjusting to that? Is that what they 207 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: want or is that what you two decide it should happen. 208 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: So we decided to give it a try for a year. 209 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: So right now, the mediation is there with him for 210 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: this year, and then we will revisit the arrangement next summer. 211 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 2: At the end of this year, our son, I think 212 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: is satisfied with that arrangement as long as he can 213 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 2: continue to see me. Our youngest is not satisfied with 214 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: that arrangement. So again, the youngest would like to come 215 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 2: with me to Germany, but I need you know, he 216 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: would have to agree to that, because we already have 217 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: an agreement in place. But if not, then the youngest, 218 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 2: you know, would have to wait out this year and 219 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 2: then you know, we can make new a new agreement 220 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: next summer. 221 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: Wow, So what do we do now? We'll talk about 222 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: that right after the spring. Welcome back to the r spot. 223 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: Let's pick up where we left done. Okay, is he 224 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: angry with you? 225 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 2: Yes? 226 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: Have you and him talked about it or brought that 227 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: to any level of resolution? 228 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 2: There was a point at which we did, and then 229 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 2: there were more things. So, like I tried to be 230 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: really intentional, so because I'm the person who wanted the 231 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 2: divorce right, like, I had this moment of like just 232 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 2: intuitive insight of like I really and it wasn't about 233 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: him being a terrible person. It was just like I 234 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: do not want to be married anymore. It's time for 235 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 2: me to like get out of this relationship. And then 236 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 2: I found out at that time that he'd been having 237 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: an affair with the attack of he member in his apartment. 238 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 2: He'd been having an affair with a graduate student of his department. 239 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: Right like, all of this stuff came out, so ultimately 240 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: we separated. He I asked him to move out of 241 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 2: the house, and I think that's when the anger cap in, 242 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 2: right like that he had to move out. That he 243 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 2: then had to you know, be on his own financially 244 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 2: and do all the adult things that I had basically 245 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 2: been doing throughout the marriage. And then he said since then, like, oh, well, 246 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: you always get your way. Everything's always about your preference. 247 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 2: But I think there's anger and a feeling that I 248 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: have kind of dictated things and now he wants to 249 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 2: kind of reclaim a control. 250 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: At this point, well, have you have you dictated things? 251 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: No heat, no judgment. Were you the maximizer in the relationship? 252 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: Did you get things hand or taken care of? Yeah, 253 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: kind of thing. 254 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: Of course, maximize itself like better language than dictator. Right, 255 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: But so I would have said I dictated things, but 256 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 2: I would say yeah, in that sense, I was a MAXI. 257 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 2: So I've always been a person who I'm a high achiever. 258 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 2: I'm a planner, you know, I make a plan I 259 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 2: worked a plan. 260 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: You know, there's an old saying that all children leave 261 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: home angry. It's easier for them to leave home angry 262 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: and be upset with their parents and go out on 263 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: their own and do their thing and be mad with 264 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: their parents than it is for them to come to 265 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: agreement and say, you know, it's time, I'm going to go. 266 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: When you have a situation where the woman was the 267 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: maximizer or the let's say the director, I don't want 268 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: to say the controller or the manager. I'll say the director. 269 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: When that relationship breaks down, very often the male partner 270 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: is it treats the his ex as though she were 271 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: his mother, and he has to be mad at her 272 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: to go out and get away. He doesn't look at 273 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: the fact that he didn't pick up his socks, he 274 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: didn't put the food away, he peed on the toilet seat. 275 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: You know, because I really see here, just as you 276 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: so wisely assessed, that he's angry and he's gonna now control. 277 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: It's directed at you, But the children are caught up 278 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: in the middle. 279 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 2: That's my concern, is a kid because for me, as 280 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: an adult who already you know, experienced seventeen years of 281 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 2: marriage with him and you know, against six years happily unmarried, 282 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 2: delightfully divorced. Like I know how to I can negotiate 283 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 2: that adult to adult. I think it's harder for the 284 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: kids to negotiate with their dad and feel caught up 285 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: in it. 286 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: So I'm just wondering here if there is an opportunity 287 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: for you to do this woman to woman, to kind 288 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: of snuggle up to your sister woman, his wife, to 289 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: see if you and her can come to come to 290 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: an agreement, to involve her, you know, so that she 291 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: knows because she's probably getting it all from his side 292 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: at the table, if you and her are not communicating, 293 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: if you and her are not speaking, I'm just wondering 294 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: if you can do this woman to woman, not to 295 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: override him, not to bypass him, but to just let 296 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: her know first of all, that you appreciate her, that 297 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: she's there, that she's providing care. I'm just wondering if 298 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: you and her can build a bond that will support 299 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: you in getting him to move a little quicker, because 300 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: it sounds like he's just acting out, rebelling. He's mad 301 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: at you, he's mad at the director, the mommy. He's 302 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: gonna have you ever considered that, do you think that's 303 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: a possibility. 304 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 2: I did consider it, and I was hopeful that that 305 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 2: would be a possibility until we sat down most recently 306 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 2: with the three of us, where she kind of was 307 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 2: definitely taking on his line of it, you know what 308 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: I mean. And so, you know, initially I thought, okay, well, 309 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 2: maybe I can communicate more directly with her with regard 310 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 2: to the kids. But then she got into a place 311 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 2: of defensiveness around like, well, these kids need to, you know, 312 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 2: respect me, and I'm not going to be disrespected, and like, 313 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 2: so she's caught up in her own stuff with regard 314 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 2: to her relationship to him and her relationship with the kids. 315 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: You know, do you play chess? 316 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 2: No, my son, my kids do, but I don't. But yeah, 317 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 2: being strategic, right, you know. 318 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: And so it may be a woman to woman phone 319 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: call where you say listen. I can only imagine, as 320 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: the stepmom or the blended mom into this family, that 321 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 1: the kids are going to have a little rebellion against you. 322 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: I understand that, and I want you to know that 323 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: I'm not supporting it. I'm not supporting it. They're in 324 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: your home. I want you to sup them to respect you. 325 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: I want you to know I heard what you said, 326 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: and I also want to know how I can do that? 327 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: What do? What would you ask of me? And what 328 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: I would ask of you is if you and I 329 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: can you know, communicate because it seems that Booboo whatever 330 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: his name is, is a little slow on responding to 331 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: some things that I want to be able to plan for. 332 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: And I don't want to be disrespectful. I don't want 333 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: to overstep. You know, you get a strategy where you 334 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: and her can line up as women, you know, because 335 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, he's just rebelling against you. He's angry 336 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,239 Speaker 1: and he's rebelling. And she's the stepmoms, so you know, 337 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: she's bringing kids into her house. I don't know if 338 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: she has children. She probably wants your children to act 339 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: the way her children do, but she's not their birth 340 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: mother and they're in relationship with you. It's hard. It's 341 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: hard for the little pooka new news. The little pooka 342 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: new news. You know, they probably feel they're being disloyal 343 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: to you even liking her, And that twelve year old 344 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: at that age is a challenged to like her because 345 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: she's gonna feel disloyal to you because she's different and 346 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: b she's twelve. You know, she's in a really a critical, 347 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: critical place. But I still think it would be worthwhile 348 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: for you to just attempt, I don't know, if you know, 349 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: how to get in touch with her, attempt to create 350 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: this union between her. Now, we got to move a 351 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: little quickly because you got this thing coming up for Germany. 352 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: It sounds to me, you know, and of course I 353 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,719 Speaker 1: don't know all of the intricate details, but it sounds 354 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: to me like you you know, you're approaching this from 355 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: a very mature perspective, which is why I say, try 356 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: to create an alliance, so that when he doesn't respond, 357 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: you could say, have you and Boo boo talked about this? 358 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: You know, not meddling, just want to know, you know, 359 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: so I can make the right choices here. I think 360 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: that's your that's the way to go. Okay, woman to 361 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: woman and she's gonna go with you to Germany. 362 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. 363 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to decree that for you. Because she's had 364 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: a critical time. This is critical, critical, critical, and if 365 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,719 Speaker 1: you got to whip out some psychological documentation, put that 366 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,719 Speaker 1: on the mediation table. Don't be afraid to do that, 367 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,479 Speaker 1: you know, like I said at twelve thirteen, identity versus 368 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 1: identity confusion. She's looking at who am I following? Who 369 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: am I modeling my womanness after? And if she doesn't 370 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: like her stepmother, or if they're not getting along and 371 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: she doesn't have access to you because you're in Germany, 372 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: that is going to be a problem. And here's another thing, Mama, 373 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: I want you to hear me. Okay, First of all, 374 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: I want you to know you haven't done anything wrong, 375 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: but I also sense you doing all of this from 376 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: your head. I want you to drop down into your heart. 377 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: You are a planner, and you are in many ways strategic, 378 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: and you are an achiever, but you're doing it from 379 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,959 Speaker 1: best thought and I want you to drop down and 380 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: start doing this with a mother's heart. Take a breath 381 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: from me, take a breath for me, and in your heart, 382 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: I want you to see your baby girl with you. 383 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: I want you to see yourself over in Germany together. 384 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: I want you to see you, know yourself, laughing, playing 385 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: with her, just being with her. Not from your head 386 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: because you want her to go, but from your heart 387 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: because you're a mama bear and your cub needs you 388 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, just see that and feel that. Get 389 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: that into your body, take him out of it. He 390 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: doesn't have anything to do with this. This is you 391 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: a mama bear protecting her cub. You can't do that 392 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: from your head and what needs to be done in 393 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: this meeting and that meeting, in the schedule and body 394 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: plane tickets, and you can't do it like that. Yeah, 395 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: I want you a little more in your heart. Does 396 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: that make sense to you? 397 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 3: Yeah? 398 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 2: It does. I definitely and very cerebral. So even though 399 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,479 Speaker 2: on the cancer sunshine, so I'm in my feelings all 400 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 2: the time that I hear you saying, move from the 401 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 2: space of the heart and out the head. 402 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. So before you and your baby girl leaf for Germany, 403 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: just shoot me an email at a yamladiyama dot com 404 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: just say thank you. I'm on my way. 405 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I definitely will. 406 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that encouragement and affirmation. 407 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 3: I receive it. 408 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, my love, thank you for calling. 409 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 410 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: Sometimes as mothers, we get so caught up in what 411 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: needs to be done and the best way to do it, 412 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: at what's going on and what they're doing and what 413 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: we're not doing, that we move into a very cerebral place, 414 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: and we start dealing from our head. We also deal 415 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: from our past experiences. Very often when we're co parenting, 416 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: we have to do it from the heart space, creating oneness, 417 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:25,479 Speaker 1: creating unity, being compassionate, empathetic, not sympathetic, not pushing to 418 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: get our way, but trying to get on the same 419 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: side of the table as the other parent, considering their perspective, 420 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: not getting caught up in it, not judging it, not 421 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: excusing it, but just see it from their perspective, and 422 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: then get clear about what it is that it's best 423 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: for the child from a mother's heart, not a mother's head, 424 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: because in the head are all the experiences that we 425 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: had with a partner or ex partner as a partner, 426 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: and now that that union is no longer operating, we 427 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: got to create a new normal. Get out of your head, mothers, 428 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: get into your heart and deal with your ex from 429 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: your heart space, filled with compassion, empathy, and being clear 430 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: about what it is you desire for the child. Be 431 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: willing to compromise and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. 432 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: Sometimes the other party is not willing to do that 433 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: and they'll put their foot down. Stay in your heart, 434 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: stay in your heart. Make your request clear for the 435 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: good of the child, not in opposition or againstness to 436 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: the other parent. And if you're a mom and the 437 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: ex has another woman in his life, consider how you 438 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: and her can become sister women an alliance for the 439 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: good of the child. Now, I know that doesn't work 440 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: all the time, but at least it's a possibility. Stay tuned, 441 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: we'll be right back. Greetings, and welcome to the R Spot. 442 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 1: We are talking today about co parenting when your husband 443 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: or your used to be wife is involved and you 444 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: are in breakdown and you are trying to raise children. 445 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: So what is the dilemma that you're bringing to the 446 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: table today. 447 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 3: The dilemma that I'm bringing to the table today is 448 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 3: the fact that my youngest friend's father is what I 449 00:26:54,440 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 3: like to call a convenience store dad, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, 450 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 3: And so you know, he likes to be a dad 451 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 3: when it's convenient for him. Just recently this past holiday 452 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 3: per se, his mom got involved, and she's been involved 453 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 3: from the beginning, but it's just splitting the times between 454 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 3: two families, and she wanted the entire time to be 455 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 3: with her and the rest of their family, Whereas here 456 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 3: I am like, hey, well, look he has two families, 457 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 3: not just one. Your family ain't the only family here, 458 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 3: and it cost a huge ripple and the tide, so 459 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 3: to speak, because you want to send time with your 460 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 3: friend when you had ample opportunity prior to just this 461 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 3: great Thanksgiving to do so. And I feel like she 462 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 3: feels like I'm using my son as a pawn or 463 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 3: wedge between the two families to say, well, you know, 464 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 3: for Christmas, you can't see him, see him, and that's 465 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 3: not the case. My day is the time outside of 466 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 3: the holidays you don't do nothing with. So now you 467 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 3: want me to be, you know, make the sacrifice and 468 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 3: be convenient and try my hardest to you know, please 469 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 3: you and y'all during the holiday season when it's still 470 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 3: three hundred and sixty two days of a year where 471 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 3: y'all could see him and you don't. So that's where 472 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 3: my co parentee issues come here at holidays. 473 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: How old is your son, mam? 474 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 3: He is four, and he is a very observant, vocal, 475 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 3: energetic for your old little boy. 476 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: So he really doesn't give two diadley snits about Thanksgiving. 477 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: He really don't. 478 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 3: No, he doesn't. 479 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: What is the arrangement that you now. What is the 480 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: arrangement that you now? What's the arrangement? 481 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 3: Well, the way that the arrangement started once his father 482 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 3: found out that he was a father prior of like 483 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 3: the last two years. 484 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up, 485 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: you just trying to zip past that. What does that mean? 486 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: Once the father found out he was a father, What 487 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: does that mean? 488 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 3: Well, I didn't know that I was pregnant until I 489 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 3: had my kids, and I had my I had my 490 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 3: youngest son in the middle of my parents' living room 491 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 3: on March the first of twenty nineteen. 492 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Yeah, how you didn't know you was pregnant? 493 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: What happened? 494 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 3: To be honest his eldest brother, I found out two 495 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 3: weeks prior before having him that I was pregnant. So 496 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 3: it's just, I would say, just the distant stresses of 497 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 3: life and just you know, just going with emotions of 498 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 3: things and not really listening and honing into my body. 499 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 3: I was just going with the flow. I know, I know, 500 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 3: I know, So. 501 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: You know what, that would be a whole show in 502 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: and of itself. I'm going to just stay with the fact. 503 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: Here's the question. What was the nature of your relationship 504 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: with your four year old son's father? What was the 505 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: nature of that relationship? 506 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 3: Honestly, it was just a you scratch my echtch each 507 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 3: type of deal. And we should never you know, when 508 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 3: we could just see each other and passing. But now 509 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 3: that itch scratching committed for how long? 510 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: For how long? For how for? How long did you 511 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: do that? 512 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 3: I should honestly say it was one time. It was 513 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 3: supposed to be a one and done type of deal, 514 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 3: and then thee don turned into a whole lifetime commitment. 515 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: Okay, so you do not have a relationship with him, correct, 516 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: So his convenience store, he's still scratching an itch, and 517 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: since you know that it ain't really there, he hasn't. 518 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to me that he's yet translated the 519 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: distinction or made the distinction between scratching your itch and 520 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: fathering his son. Because he didn't have a choice, he 521 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: wasn't involved, he didn't participate. So he's just transferred his 522 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: relationship with you onto his relationship with his son. 523 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm taken. 524 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: Does that make sense to John? 525 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 3: I'm taking your full responsibility of my actions, and you know, 526 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 3: the things that have happened, But I'm like, Okay, at 527 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 3: the other day, we still have an all kid that 528 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 3: we have to raise together, but separate. 529 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: You know, you do have a child that you want 530 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: to raise. What is the conversation between you and his 531 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: father regarding his participation in raising his son? What has 532 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: your conversation been with him? 533 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 3: There? Hass like talking to a brick wall. 534 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: Okay, well I would I would. 535 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 3: You know, open up the line of communication. You know, 536 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 3: what's abod? I try to call him so we can 537 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 3: have conversations. I hay, when's you know, when's the time 538 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 3: for you to see him? What is your weekend looking like? 539 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 3: And get I get no response. His mother is more 540 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 3: evolved than he is. 541 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: So then I say, line up, woman to woman with 542 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: his mother, line up. How old is this gentleman? 543 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 3: He's thirty five. 544 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: Does he have other children? 545 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 2: No? 546 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 3: As as well as far as I know, my friend 547 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 3: is his fus. 548 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,959 Speaker 2: And his only so. 549 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: But here, mom, I want you to hear me. I'm 550 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: not I don't have no heat, no judgment on this, 551 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: but I really want you to hear me. I want 552 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: you to take this in. That's not his son, that's 553 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: the scratching of an itch. That's a scratching of an itch. 554 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: That's not his son. He's not there, gotcha. So if 555 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: your intention is to be sure that your son has 556 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: access to is involved with his father's side of the family, 557 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: then your doorway, your ticket to that is his grandmother. Okay, 558 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: and perhaps she is the one you know. And I'm 559 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: really torn in that because it's hard for me to 560 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,959 Speaker 1: say that knowing he may be around his father and 561 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: his father just sees him as an itch or not 562 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: as a you know, a responsibility. But the other thing 563 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna encourage you to do, and I don't know 564 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: how you don't have any agreement with this man in 565 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: terms of cope parenting. I don't know what kind of 566 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: request that you've made, because when are you going to 567 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: spend time with him? Is not a request, that's an inquiry, 568 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: that's a question. Got to You've got to make it clear. 569 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: I want to know or my request is that you 570 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: have care of your son, of our son at least 571 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: one weekend a month, and when he's with your mom, 572 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: that's between me and your mom. You've got to set 573 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: up a relationship with her that's separate and apart from 574 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,320 Speaker 1: the relationship you have with the father because she sees 575 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 1: this as her grandson. He sees this as an itch. 576 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 3: Yes, and he's kind of mention. 577 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: Of the nature of your I. 578 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 3: Would saying, well, he's currently as of recently, we have 579 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 3: started the family court process her his request for visitational purposes, 580 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 3: So we're going to see. 581 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: How oh good he requested it. 582 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, he did. And to be honest, I guess for 583 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 3: me it was a thing. I'm like, okay, but you're 584 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 3: asking for visitation when all you have to do is 585 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 3: your feakle to fault and say, hey man. 586 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: Your business manya business manya business. If that's how he 587 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: wants to do it, it may be a fear that 588 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: you're gonna ask him too much or again he he 589 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: don't know you. You you had a role in the 590 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: hay with this guy. True, So he's trying to protect hisself. 591 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: He's trying to protect hisself because in his mile, she's 592 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 1: gonna come after me. She's gonna come after me for money. 593 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: She's gonna do this, that and the other thing. But 594 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: when you get into court, you can definitely ask for money. Yeah, 595 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: that is separate and apart from your relationship with his mom. Yes, ma'am, 596 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: this is her grandson. She sees him as her grandson 597 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: and she wants to be in relationship with her him. 598 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,720 Speaker 1: So you have to set that up with her, whether 599 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: he is involved or not. Get into alignment and agreement 600 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: with grandma. Grandma. If you're in alignment with her, she'll 601 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:02,760 Speaker 1: make it happen. 602 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 3: Yes, ma'am. Does that make sense? 603 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: So you know when I was co parenting my granddaughter 604 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: with her father, and he was just a wonderful child 605 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: of God, cleverly disguised as an idiot. I had to 606 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: really make agreements and request and it wasn't always what 607 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: I wanted. So we agreed one Thanksgiving he's with you, 608 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: and that year she's with me for Christmas. One the 609 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: next year she's with me for Thanksgiving, she's with you 610 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: for Christmas. And even if you set it up, they 611 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,439 Speaker 1: have him Christmas Day and you get him the day 612 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: after Christmas. Kids don't they don't care, They don't you know, 613 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: he don't know. He's four, He don't know what day 614 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: Christmas is in his mind. He could have a Christmas, 615 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: two Christmases, two thanks Giving and someone you're gonna have 616 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: to relinquish your attachment to. I got to have him 617 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 1: for major house. One Mother's Day, he's with her, One 618 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: Mother's Day he's with you. Father's Day he can have him, 619 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, a groundhog's day. All of those things, right, 620 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: But get into alignment with Grandma. Get into alignment with her, 621 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: and it may mean that you have to I don't 622 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: know what better words. I'll say sacrifice, sacrifice until he's 623 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: old enough to say I don't want to go, or 624 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: I want to stay with you, which you'll probably be 625 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: around ten or eleven. Yes, line up with Line up 626 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: with grandma, and deal with daddy, who has absolutely no 627 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 1: connection to this child at all, unfortunately because you was 628 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: giving up the goodies. 629 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't. Yes, where am I wan? Yes, William, 630 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 3: thank you so much. I appreciate. 631 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 1: Okay, line up with grandma. 632 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm a line up with grandma. 633 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,760 Speaker 1: All right. Thank you for love it, thank you for calling, 634 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 1: and good luck to you. Thank you alrighty. So many 635 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: co parents do not understand that the nature of their 636 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: relationship together impacts the nature of the way the children 637 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: are parenting. If you had a you know one and 638 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 1: done fly by go by night, you can't come in 639 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: the back door now expecting the other parent to be 640 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: you know, all in, heads in, feet in because they 641 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: weren't involved to that degree. And it's not to beat 642 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: ourselves up, it's not to make ourselves feel bad. But 643 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: if you have a child with someone and their intention 644 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: was not to have a child, then maybe some things 645 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 1: that you have to give up. You can't force somebody. 646 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: You cannot force somebody to step into their responsibility. You 647 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: would hope that they would, but if they didn't have 648 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: a vote and a choice upfront, if you ended up 649 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 1: pregnant or just got pregnant and that wasn't the plan, 650 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 1: you know, the fact that the other party doesn't want 651 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: to be a parent, doesn't live up to their responsibilities, 652 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: that ain't your business. They're gonna have to answer to 653 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: God for that, not you. Your business is how do you 654 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:41,760 Speaker 1: communicate that to the child. But insisting that someone step 655 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: into their parenthood when they're resistant to doing that, fighting 656 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: with them is not it's not It's not gonna turn 657 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,840 Speaker 1: out well for you. Okay, So we've got to be 658 00:39:54,000 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: mindful when we are co parenting to understand the name 659 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:05,439 Speaker 1: nature of the relationship that produced the child. You got 660 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: to take that into consideration and don't assume that just 661 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: because you add the child or are having the child 662 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: that the other person is happy about. Okay, Now, if 663 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 1: this is a planned child, if you were in a 664 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: committed relationship and the child is born, then you may 665 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 1: have a little bit to work with. But you still 666 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: have to look at the nature of the relationship and 667 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 1: the nature of the person you were in relationship with. 668 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:41,240 Speaker 1: If they are irresponsible in their relationship, negligent in their relationship, dishonest, 669 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 1: out of integrity, lacking ownership, accountability in their relationship with 670 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: another adult, what in the blazon of Jesus thinks that 671 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: they are going to be responsible, integrists and accountable to 672 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: a child? Okay, So some of the demands and the 673 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: requires and a quest that you may be making are 674 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: going to fall on deaf ears, and yes, the child 675 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: or the children become collateral damage. What you want to 676 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: figure out is how best to deal with the situation 677 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: you are in for the good of the child and 678 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: maintain the peace in the process. I hope that you 679 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: know something now that you didn't know when you tuned in, 680 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: And until we meet again, stay in peace and not pieces. 681 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: The R Spot is a production of shondaland Audio in 682 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:46,240 Speaker 1: partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit 683 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 684 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.