Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Sahade Charmer with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your
Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic and Patrick Jed
Speaker 1: Hoyer has made a trade. His hand was forced. Essentially,
Speaker 1: the injuries have gotten out of control. They were already
Speaker 1: stacking up before this four game set with the Mets started.
Speaker 1: We've got two more potentially significant injuries. We'll talk more
Speaker 1: about the injuries in a little bit, but a late
Speaker 1: night trade with the Mets, getting David Peterson from the Mets.
Speaker 1: Surface level numbers don't look good, but this is a
Speaker 1: guy that puts the ball on the ground and that
Speaker 1: works for the Cubs. And frankly, they just need healthy
Speaker 1: major league arms right now. Beggars can't be choosers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good way to sum it up.
Speaker 3: And I think there's a lot to like, probably because
Speaker 3: the Cubs are so desperate, But to find a guy
Speaker 3: who was an All Star as recently as last season.
Speaker 3: Granted he wasn't very good in the second half and
Speaker 3: has not been good this season, but still, I mean
Speaker 3: a nice pedigree as a first round pick. I think
Speaker 3: you can't underestimate the importance of escaping a losing situation
Speaker 3: and just giving the Cubs something to work with. Like
Speaker 3: we've seen how they've pretty much depleted all of their
Speaker 3: pitching reserves. There's not really another guy just waiting there
Speaker 3: in Iowa that you'd feel comfortable with. And look, I
Speaker 3: mean that Mets game Wednesday night, the second half of the doubleheader,
Speaker 3: I mean just atrocious defense like you could not have.
Speaker 3: You know, I think that's gonna be one of those games,
Speaker 3: you know, when our colleagues at the Athletic are writing
Speaker 3: kind of the autopsy of the season. I think that'll
Speaker 3: be one of those sort of games or nights when
Speaker 3: you include the Peterson trade. I know they're you know,
Speaker 3: they're saying it's not a full scale sell off at
Speaker 3: this point. I think they can reserve the right to
Speaker 3: change their mind as well.
Speaker 2: But you know, you.
Speaker 3: Put escaping New York Cubs infrastructure, just general change of
Speaker 3: scenery like we've seen them do more with less before.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean they you know, they had Chris Fluxon
Speaker 1: doing decently was that last year, Like you know, it
Speaker 1: was kind of smoking mirrors for a while, but he
Speaker 1: was productive for them. And got them through a segment
Speaker 1: of the season, and quick council is kind of sat
Speaker 1: now twice. I believe it was Tuesday after Cabrera got
Speaker 1: hurt and then Wednesday after we heard about Ben Brown.
Speaker 1: They just kind of need to get through this segment,
Speaker 1: like get to the All Star break. That's how he's
Speaker 1: kind of looking at it. He's not denying that they're
Speaker 1: in a bit of a bind. They are short on pitching.
Speaker 1: It is this is when you have to make one
Speaker 1: of those moves. Cole Mathis is a decent prospect. He's
Speaker 1: hurt a lot, but he second round pick from the
Speaker 1: Matt Shaw draft or camp Smith draft.
Speaker 3: Cam Smith Draws camp Smithles Mathis, and Ronnie Cruz.
Speaker 2: The top three picks from that draft have all been traded.
Speaker 1: Okay, there you go, and matthis. I did get some
Speaker 1: good reports on Mathis. I think his inability to stay
Speaker 1: healthy is it makes it a little more you know,
Speaker 1: digestible for Cubs fans and the orger to part with him.
Speaker 1: But he is a slugger, someone that you know, if
Speaker 1: he stays healthy, it could be an interesting prospect down
Speaker 1: the line. But it's kind of this. I said it
Speaker 1: to some other reporters yesterday when we were when we
Speaker 1: got the news of Ben Brown, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now's when you have to make the Quinn Priester type trade.
Speaker 1: You have to maybe overpay for someone that can give
Speaker 1: you innings and maybe that person turns out to be
Speaker 1: better than you expected. I think you nailed it. The
Speaker 1: defense is one and you said the change of scenery.
Speaker 1: I think just when you're on a team that's struggling
Speaker 1: like that, that type of stuff can snowball and it
Speaker 1: can just be hard. Like six errors yesterday. Maybe if
Speaker 1: they're a winning ball club, that's a three er game.
Speaker 1: Just because you lose your focus, you're a little overthinking things,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. I think when you're losing as
Speaker 1: much as the Mets are and struggling like things do
Speaker 1: have a way of getting in your head. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like we could make the argument, it's kind of
Speaker 1: like how the offense struggled for so long and in
Speaker 1: the offense has gotten better. One of those guys that's
Speaker 1: turned around, he's a key to the defense. Let's make
Speaker 1: this our Daily Dingers segment presented by Fan Duel. We
Speaker 1: were talking about Dansby Swanson and Benching him a week ago. Patrick,
Speaker 1: We're not immune from this stuff. He and it was legitimate.
Speaker 1: It's not like there was an overreaction. It had been
Speaker 1: quite a while of struggles from Dansby Swanson, but Craig
Speaker 1: Council basically said there were two reasons. You know, the
Speaker 1: best version of the Cubs is with Dansby Swanson figuring
Speaker 1: it out, and he is a great defensive shortstop. Cheded
Speaker 1: Hoyer said, don't. We can't run away from our defense.
Speaker 1: It's our strength. It's the backbone of their team. Dansby
Speaker 1: Swanson helped win them a playoff series with his glove.
Speaker 1: Kenny help Kenny help the team, make David Peterson a
Speaker 1: little bit better than he was with the Mets. That's
Speaker 1: probably what the Cubs are wondering right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the defense stuff we sort of take
Speaker 3: for granted after a while, Like when Jed and counsels
Speaker 3: say that sort of stuff, you're like, yeah, but it's
Speaker 3: super frustrating for fans to watch, you know, those at
Speaker 3: bats and just how how comfortable opposing pitchers seemed to
Speaker 3: get once they got to.
Speaker 2: A certain point in the Cubs lineup.
Speaker 3: Maybe after you face PCA at the top and the
Speaker 3: Cubs media relations staff their research team had some good
Speaker 3: ones yesterday. I mean Dansey with the first player in
Speaker 3: franchise history with three straight four plus RBI games and
Speaker 3: doing stuff that like when you're being mentioned next to
Speaker 3: Ernie Banks and Sammy Sosha in terms of like home
Speaker 3: run RBI combinations over certain number games, you know you're
Speaker 3: doing something right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: I did feel like he had a good It was
Speaker 1: a shortened weekend, I know, but it looked like he
Speaker 1: was starting to get put the hit the ball on
Speaker 1: the line a little bit more. That home run he
Speaker 1: hit that was wind blown was that against the Rockies.
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like that game was really the turning point,
Speaker 1: but he followed it up with some quality at bats
Speaker 1: in the following games, and that's seeing that. It's like,
Speaker 1: oh okay, he's starting to hit the ball on the line.
Speaker 1: And obviously the past three games he's he's done a lot.
Speaker 1: He's done a lot for this team and glob that like,
Speaker 1: they need these guys, and right now I think they
Speaker 1: need the offense to continue to carry them. I don't
Speaker 1: know how they're gonna get through this weekend against the Brewers,
Speaker 1: but they need they need to hit. It's going to
Speaker 1: be interesting. I don't like, you know, the pitching is
Speaker 1: just so shorthanded. I know. They added David Peterson. They
Speaker 1: added Bryce Wilson, another name picked up off the waiver
Speaker 1: wire from the Phillies. Not the same upside as Peterson,
Speaker 1: but healthy body that can give you innings, maybe give
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Speaker 1: Patrick. The injuries, like we said, just don't seem to
Speaker 1: want to stop for this team. Ben Brown, we got
Speaker 1: the news probably right after we came up to the
Speaker 1: press box. That was Wednesday pregame. We'd already gotten news
Speaker 1: about Edward Cabrera. Obviously we saw it happen. Ben Brown out.
Speaker 1: We don't really have a timeline. I think we'll get
Speaker 1: more news possibly today. He's going to see the dot
Speaker 1: He went to see the doctors in Chicago, I think
Speaker 1: yesterday Wednesday. But it's an that issue and it could
Speaker 1: be the same thing as before, which was an osteoma
Speaker 1: with basically like this benign tumor bone tumor and it
Speaker 1: causes pain. He's had it since the start in San Francisco,
Speaker 1: I think June thirteenth, but he's been able to pitch
Speaker 1: through it. Wasn't able to get through his bullpen on Tuesday,
Speaker 1: and now he's on the il. He's been amazing for
Speaker 1: this team. We've talked a lot about him. He deserves
Speaker 1: a ton of props for the changes he's made out
Speaker 1: of that sinker, using his change up more both effective pitches.
Speaker 1: He's a four pitch pitcher now, very good upside is
Speaker 1: starting to be reached, really impressive. And this is this
Speaker 1: is a huge blow. This is a this is one
Speaker 1: that it's going to be hard for this team if
Speaker 1: he's out for a significant period of time. Oh sorry,
Speaker 1: there you go, there you go.
Speaker 3: This uh, this pitching Steve. This is where things get
Speaker 3: get dicey, like when you wonder what are they doing
Speaker 3: in the sixth seventh faith innings, or if you don't
Speaker 3: like council's decisions here and there, it's like, well those
Speaker 3: could have been Ben Brown's high leverage opportunities.
Speaker 2: And but obviously he's still getting the rotation.
Speaker 3: There's so much more upside there you get, you know,
Speaker 3: him moving into rotation, and he was We did our
Speaker 3: mid season grades the other day and.
Speaker 2: He was one of the few like A level.
Speaker 3: Performers, and you know, it's it's been really hard, you know,
Speaker 3: trying to map the stuff out. I feel like you
Speaker 3: and I we talk about story ideas a lot. We
Speaker 3: try to collect things and anticipate.
Speaker 2: And I wrote something on Ben Brown.
Speaker 3: Right before that San Francisco start, or of just like
Speaker 3: they're treating him with a lot of caution, like you
Speaker 3: want to see how it goes. Okay, he has one
Speaker 3: good spot start fine, all right, he puts together a
Speaker 3: couple Oh wow, like another guy gets injured. Like he
Speaker 3: is not only at the front of this rotation, he
Speaker 3: has a legitimate all star case, especially when you look
Speaker 3: at you know, how how those teams are selected, and
Speaker 3: you know, guys getting injured, guys backing out saying they
Speaker 3: can't pitch, like he was on his own worthy of it,
Speaker 3: and then you add all that other stuff in. You know,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have been shocked for him to go back
Speaker 3: to Philadelphia, the organization that drafted him and around that
Speaker 3: lo longer exists, would have been an amazing story. And
Speaker 3: now it feels like everything is sort of on hold.
Speaker 3: When I was researching that story, I was like, Yeah,
Speaker 3: what was that thing he had? And you wrote about
Speaker 3: it in like the following spring training like it was
Speaker 3: really sort of mysterious. It was kept under wraps. We
Speaker 3: didn't really get a very good explanation. Really until you
Speaker 3: got him in Mesa the following year. I had to
Speaker 3: link to that story and just an unusual situation. You know,
Speaker 3: you don't know how many more of these blows the
Speaker 3: staff can withstand. But I do think this is I'm
Speaker 3: going back to those mid season grades again of like,
Speaker 3: they went out and won three games against the Mets,
Speaker 3: and if they can tread water and make it to
Speaker 3: the All Star Break in a decent position, I think
Speaker 3: there'll be a you know, big time credit to you know,
Speaker 3: the front office and the coaching staff for keeping things
Speaker 3: on track. And you know, once you get past that
Speaker 3: All Star break, then it's like, okay, reinforcements should be
Speaker 3: coming at the trade deadline.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I know they get a lot of criticism for the
Speaker 1: struggles that they've had. They had a lot of depth
Speaker 1: in the pitching staff to start the season. You can't
Speaker 1: you cannot plan for six starters to be on the IL.
Speaker 1: You can try, but I mean that's a lot of
Speaker 1: starters to hit the IL. You just cannot have that
Speaker 1: many quality starting pitchers, and a lot of the depth
Speaker 1: that they had didn't work out in a sense. Jackson
Speaker 1: Wiggins has heard Kyle Wright, who they took a flyer
Speaker 1: on lets. Sometimes you're not going to get guys that
Speaker 1: are fully healthy to sign to be your thirteenth starter,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So you kind of have
Speaker 1: to take flyers on guys and hope they work their
Speaker 1: way back. And in an ideal scenario, Kyle Wright would
Speaker 1: be ready in June. He had a setback in April
Speaker 1: or whatever and probably is not going to pitch this season.
Speaker 1: Those types of things happen, and those are the types
Speaker 1: of guys you have for depth because you cannot, like
Speaker 1: I said, you're not going to go sign anyone great.
Speaker 1: The other thing I keep seeing is like, what's wrong
Speaker 1: with the training staff? Look, I think the company to
Speaker 1: evaluate all those things, absolutely, but these last two injuries,
Speaker 1: you know, Ben Brown is into training staff issue, isn't
Speaker 1: a training staff issue? And I just don't like none
Speaker 1: of these It's not like we're seeing a pattern of
Speaker 1: everyone having the same issue and everyone's elbow blowing out.
Speaker 1: That's not to say they shouldn't look into it and
Speaker 1: try and figure out if they're doing anything wrong. I
Speaker 1: just think this is a ton of bad luck happening,
Speaker 1: and some of it is you know, you've gotten some
Speaker 1: injury prone guys. I mean, Kate Horton. They drafted a
Speaker 1: guy coming off like that they knew was coming off.
Speaker 1: Tommy John surgery. You know, you want to look at
Speaker 1: Jackson Wiggins. That's a guy that was injured when they
Speaker 1: drafted him. Edward Cabrera has a long injury history, so
Speaker 1: you know that. But it's also just part of pitching.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know if there's blame to you know,
Speaker 1: throw around here, but I do think they do. They
Speaker 1: do deserve some credit for, you know, kind of treading
Speaker 1: water so far, and if they can really get through
Speaker 1: the All Star break, that's that's when it's impressive. We'll see,
Speaker 1: We'll see how this weekend goes as as well. Let's
Speaker 1: take a quick break and come back and talk about
Speaker 1: what happened with Carrera.
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Speaker 1: So there was Edward Kaber running to cover first base
Speaker 1: in the with two outs in the fifth inning. He
Speaker 1: had looked shaky at times, but bounced back nicely and
Speaker 1: had only given up two runs. Stretches to make a
Speaker 1: play because it was one of those balls that went
Speaker 1: in between Bush and Horner and Nico made the play.
Speaker 1: It was a tough play. It was a bang bang play.
Speaker 1: He had to stretch to make it. I can tell
Speaker 1: you that like when I watched him, he kind of
Speaker 1: like jumped up and like was almost like trying to
Speaker 1: will himself like I'm not in pain. This doesn't hurt,
Speaker 1: and like had to crumple to the ground and couldn't
Speaker 1: really carry his weight. Like it was like he was
Speaker 1: like that initial move. I was like, oh, maybe he's
Speaker 1: okay because he kind of like hopped up and you thought, okay,
Speaker 1: he felt a little something, but he's good. He's just
Speaker 1: like testing it out and it was instant like going
Speaker 1: back to the ground. Craig Counsel's reaction was kind of
Speaker 1: like like dropping his head, like really again. Another one
Speaker 1: that was I think I can't remember his pitch gump,
Speaker 1: but my guess is that was probably it for Cabrera too.
Speaker 1: And it's just like these types of things. It's like
Speaker 1: showed a covering first last year that happened and that
Speaker 1: was a huge blow. The hamstring. This is also being
Speaker 1: called a hamstring. They're not giving us a timeline. I
Speaker 1: heard a little more severe than Tye On, so maybe
Speaker 1: a little bit longer than him, but not significantly. So
Speaker 1: that's the initial hope. I think we'll get more information
Speaker 1: as the days go and we have a clearer plan
Speaker 1: for how we'll come back. But this is you know,
Speaker 1: I know Edward Cabrera hasn't been living up to the
Speaker 1: hype just yet, but this is just I mean, just
Speaker 1: keeps the gut punches, just keep coming for this team.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and at least Cabrera is a capable, competent major
Speaker 3: league picture, Like, there's no question about that. He hasn't
Speaker 3: been as good as a Cub soaped it's left a
Speaker 3: lot to be desired. But to me someone you'd want
Speaker 3: to just keep going out there in the hopes that
Speaker 3: it does click because the stuff, his physicality, all of
Speaker 3: it is very impressive. And I guess if you're an optimist,
Speaker 3: you know you can look at that kind of August
Speaker 3: September playoff push that maybe the Cubs will have a
Speaker 3: bunch of pictures come off injured list and get healthy
Speaker 3: and be relatively fresh. But again, gonna there's a long
Speaker 3: way to go to just get there. And I think
Speaker 3: this is you know, why that ten game losing streak
Speaker 3: was so frustrating of just like it just felt like
Speaker 3: they immediately gave their margin for error right back that
Speaker 3: you know, if you oh gratued. They had a lot
Speaker 3: of crazy walk off wins too, So like maybe they
Speaker 3: are kind of where they deserve.
Speaker 2: But if you if you just.
Speaker 3: Were able to shorten that extended skid just a little bit,
Speaker 3: you know, you'd have a little more maneuverability. If the
Speaker 3: Brewers weren't as good as they've been this year, you know,
Speaker 3: I think you might feel slightly better about things. But yeah,
Speaker 3: just really it goes back to what we talked about
Speaker 3: it before you've written it for the athletic of just
Speaker 3: so many logical offseason moves for the Cubs just have
Speaker 3: not panned out yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the offense is starting to pick up,
Speaker 1: and that's what they need. They need the offense to
Speaker 1: kind of carry them. Right now, maybe we'll see that
Speaker 1: it's going to be really like or maybe we're just
Speaker 1: seeing them feast on lesser pitching, but uh, they're going
Speaker 1: to obviously be tested this weekend. Three really good pitchers Misowski,
Speaker 1: Kyle Harrison, and I believe Brandon Woodruff is going Game three.
Speaker 1: And that's I mean, the first two are our studs
Speaker 1: this season. They've been absolutely brilliant and they dominated the
Speaker 1: Cubs the first time they face them, so it's going
Speaker 1: to it's not going to be an easy weekend and
Speaker 1: it could be a disheartening one for Cubs fans. I
Speaker 1: know that first series can that was like kind of
Speaker 1: right in the middle of the ten game losing streak. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't remember if it started it or if it
Speaker 1: was right in the middle of it, but it it was.
Speaker 1: It kind of was an exclam point as far as
Speaker 1: like this team is a much better than the Cubs
Speaker 1: right now. They kind of emphasize that we'll see if
Speaker 1: that's still the case, if the Cubs offense can can
Speaker 1: put up some runs against these guys. I think that's
Speaker 1: how you build confidence and say this is how we
Speaker 1: get through this. Our pitching is going to take some bits.
Speaker 1: We haven't even talked about the bullpen. I think the
Speaker 1: bullpen's really shaky right now. I don't feel confident in
Speaker 1: anyone going out there and having a clean inning. It's
Speaker 1: almost like they have to just like build up a
Speaker 1: big enough lead and hope it's not given up. And
Speaker 1: that's kind of what the last few games have been.
Speaker 1: So we'll see how rough it gets. They have kind
Speaker 1: of got caught up in a sense like it had
Speaker 1: gotten some of these wins back with this mini winning
Speaker 1: streak here, this stretch here, I think this is the
Speaker 1: first time they're six games over five hundred since like
Speaker 1: like may I may be wrong on that.
Speaker 2: I look this up.
Speaker 1: It was during the ten game losing streak, so it's
Speaker 1: been a little bit since they've been to this point.
Speaker 1: They need to just try and stack some series wins,
Speaker 1: eek out some wins against the Brewers if they can,
Speaker 1: and hope and hope they get healthy at all start break.
Speaker 1: I think that's their best bet, no doubt. All right,
Speaker 1: let's wrap this up. This is Northside Territory. Make sure
Speaker 1: to rate, review, subscribe, subscribe to the YouTube channel, and
Speaker 1: subscribe to The Athletic where Patrick and I are on
Speaker 1: top of all things Cubs. Thanks for thanks so much
Speaker 1: for listening and watching. Take care,