1
00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 1: We got ahold of the faculty handbook of Holy Cross Academy,

2
00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:15,560
Speaker 1: and let's just read some passages. So religious affiliation. Holy

3
00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 1: Cross Academy was founded as a private, independent preparatory school

4
00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,320
Speaker 1: in the Catholic monastic tradition of education by the Monastery

5
00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,439
Speaker 1: of the Exaltation of the Most Holy Cross, with the

6
00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,160
Speaker 1: permission of the Most Reverend Michael J. Duddick of Passaic,

7
00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,479
Speaker 1: New Jersey. Parentheses, in whose Diocese of the Eastern Right

8
00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,680
Speaker 1: of the Catholic Church the academy is located. So they're

9
00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,400
Speaker 1: like really stressing the fact that they're strictly Catholic and

10
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,559
Speaker 1: that they are under the Aparchy of Passaic. That's what

11
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:47,720
Speaker 1: this is saying. You want to go on to the

12
00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,960
Speaker 1: next passage. Legal jurisdiction regarding Holy Cross Academy. Holy Cross

13
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 1: Academy is an independent, non for profit corporation in the

14
00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 1: state of Florida. It is neither owned nor operated did

15
00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,039
Speaker 1: by the Catholic Archdiocese of Miami or the Byzantine White

16
00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,800
Speaker 1: Catholic Diocese of Passaic, New Jersey. Therefore, it is inappropriate

17
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,559
Speaker 1: and in fact useless to contact the bishops of either

18
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,520
Speaker 1: diocese or the superintendent of Schools of the Archdiocese of

19
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 1: Miami regarding matters of Holy Cross Academy, since the school

20
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:26,559
Speaker 1: is neither owned, governed, nor controlled by either of these dioceses. Likewise,

21
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,960
Speaker 1: its priests are not members of either diocese parentheses. They

22
00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,880
Speaker 1: are priests of Holy Cross Monastery. Therefore, for matters relating

23
00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:41,160
Speaker 1: to the administration, operation, policies, decisions, et cetera of Holy

24
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,039
Speaker 1: Cross Academy, there is no higher authority to whom to

25
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:51,440
Speaker 1: direct a suggestion, concern, complaint, or appeal than the Chancellor, Headmaster,

26
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:57,800
Speaker 1: who is the president and highest authority regarding this corporation. Okay,

27
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,600
Speaker 1: you know how the first paragraphic goes, Holy As Academy

28
00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,200
Speaker 1: was founded that with the permission of the Most Reverend

29
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,800
Speaker 1: Michael Duddick of Passaic, New Jersey. So it was with

30
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,920
Speaker 1: the permission of Passaic, New Jersey. And they don't have

31
00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,160
Speaker 1: any power over it, got it, That's what they're saying,

32
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,400
Speaker 1: which is very confusing. I would love to have a

33
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 1: conversation with Father Abbot one day and ask him this.

34
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:30,200
Speaker 1: I'm Paula Barrows and I'm Melanie Bartley, and this sacred

35
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,400
Speaker 1: scandal I remember did something was communicated to the Vatican.

36
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,560
Speaker 1: But you know, I really don't know too much about

37
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,200
Speaker 1: how that whole system operates, So there was always that weirdness.

38
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 1: So if you have this Bysantine Catholic on one side,

39
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 1: and you have this Roman Catholic on the other, So

40
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:46,960
Speaker 1: how are they able to actually continue if they were

41
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 1: told to cease and desist essentially, but they didn't. Well,

42
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,799
Speaker 1: the dude was a fraud. They weren't pretty. They were predators. Man.

43
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 1: I could totally believe that there were people that are

44
00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,920
Speaker 1: out there to like get them, because they have something

45
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,640
Speaker 1: so good that's going on, and all these wonderful people

46
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,080
Speaker 1: surrounding them, Like I wouldn't doubt if there was somebody

47
00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 1: out there to be like, let's shut the church down,

48
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 1: he shall cease and desist from for sending himself as

49
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 1: a profest monk. And wow, how in the world did

50
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,440
Speaker 1: they get to open that school? Then? With all this

51
00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:32,680
Speaker 1: going on, as the investigation into sexual abuse at holy

52
00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,000
Speaker 1: Cross Academy continued, the legal teams for the defense and

53
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,600
Speaker 1: prosecution continued to get little cooperation from the school's leaders,

54
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,520
Speaker 1: Father Abbot Gregory Went and Father Damien Gibald. The priests

55
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,760
Speaker 1: of holy Cross Academy remained silent on the advice of

56
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,200
Speaker 1: their attorneys. So the legal teams for the defense and

57
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,360
Speaker 1: the prosecution started looking more deeply into their history and

58
00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 1: the schools on their own. And as they started asking questions,

59
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,480
Speaker 1: both sides found that they weren't the only ones looking

60
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,080
Speaker 1: into Holy Cross and the two priests. Years before the

61
00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 1: murder of Sister Michelle, the Eparchy of Passaic, New Jersey

62
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,680
Speaker 1: started its own investigation into the school and the monastery.

63
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,320
Speaker 1: The eparchy, which is like the diocese in the Roman

64
00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 1: Catholic Faith, was trying to find out if Holy Cross

65
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,080
Speaker 1: was actually a part of the Byzantine Catholic Church, or

66
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,159
Speaker 1: any church at all. Holy Cross was within the territory

67
00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,520
Speaker 1: of this New Jersey eparchy, and as they explored the

68
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,479
Speaker 1: history of the school, they started to realize that the

69
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,600
Speaker 1: priest and the monks may have been using the church's

70
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:44,520
Speaker 1: name to misrepresent what they really were. The issues appeared

71
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 1: to stretch back to the original formation of the school

72
00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:52,200
Speaker 1: back in by then, Father Went and Father Damien had

73
00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,599
Speaker 1: been operating their two man monastery for almost three years.

74
00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 1: According to documents that we've come across from the eparch,

75
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,080
Speaker 1: key the priests met with the Catholic Archdiocese of Miami

76
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,040
Speaker 1: and Bishop Michael Duddock from the Byzantine Church in New Jersey.

77
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,280
Speaker 1: They laid out plans for a K through twelve academy.

78
00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,920
Speaker 1: At the end of those talks, the bishop said no

79
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,040
Speaker 1: to the high school, but did eventually agree to them

80
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:24,240
Speaker 1: opening a middle school by Bishop Didick retired and the

81
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:29,040
Speaker 1: new Bishop, Andrew Pataki recently took over. At some point

82
00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,799
Speaker 1: he took notice of Holy Cross Academy and Bishop ATTACKI

83
00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,120
Speaker 1: summoned fathers, Went and Damien to a meeting. I am

84
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,279
Speaker 1: Peter Davidson, the author of Murdered Holy Cross. Well, the

85
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,479
Speaker 1: rationality I read in all the communication that they had

86
00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,919
Speaker 1: there was a whole hearing. They pretty much had a

87
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,800
Speaker 1: tribunal they called it, where they confronted Went and Damien

88
00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,200
Speaker 1: about what they were up to. And the reason was that,

89
00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:03,440
Speaker 1: according to the Bishop, the eper Key had tried to

90
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,760
Speaker 1: do high school level but it never worked out. They

91
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,839
Speaker 1: were successful doing elementary school, successful doing middle school, but

92
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,280
Speaker 1: high schools that just didn't work. And he wouldn't give

93
00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,599
Speaker 1: him his permission. But the Eperchy guaranteed at one point

94
00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,919
Speaker 1: for a million dollar loan to the bank that enabled

95
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:28,839
Speaker 1: went to build the Holy Cross campus, and then went

96
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,480
Speaker 1: in Damien went one step further. They defied the bishop

97
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:40,400
Speaker 1: by doing a high school. This meeting took place in June,

98
00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 1: and what Bishop attack, he claimed was that Fathers went

99
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,240
Speaker 1: and Damien secured the loan to build a new school

100
00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,360
Speaker 1: and expand to a high school without anyone in New

101
00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,200
Speaker 1: Jersey or the Miami diocese knowing until it was already done.

102
00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,480
Speaker 1: One of the documents we came across talked about how

103
00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 1: the Archbishop of Miami and the Byzantine bishop from Passaic

104
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,120
Speaker 1: were invited to bless the new school building when it

105
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,400
Speaker 1: finally opened. It was only when they got there on

106
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,080
Speaker 1: the day of the ceremony that they realized they were

107
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,239
Speaker 1: blessing a high school they said wasn't allowed to exist.

108
00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,800
Speaker 1: But it was too late, the school was already open,

109
00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,240
Speaker 1: and they did the blessing anyway, not to cause a scene.

110
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 1: It's not clear from any eparchy documents we've come across

111
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 1: what the plan was for Holy Cross after this first meeting,

112
00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,400
Speaker 1: and we've not been able to get any response from

113
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,640
Speaker 1: the eparchy, But what is clear from public records is

114
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,320
Speaker 1: that not long after this meeting, Fathers went and Damien

115
00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,080
Speaker 1: started making some changes to all of Holy Cross. First,

116
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 1: it's important to know that since they were both founded,

117
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,080
Speaker 1: holy Cross the School and Holy Cross the Monastery were

118
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 1: separate legal entities. The property of the school was owned

119
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 1: by Holy Cross Academy, Incorporated, and the properties that were

120
00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,440
Speaker 1: a part of the monastery dairy were held by Monastery.

121
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,680
Speaker 1: Of the Exaltation of the most holy Cross Incorporated documents

122
00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,400
Speaker 1: show that they were formed as civil companies and outside

123
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,600
Speaker 1: the norms of church law. A few weeks after the

124
00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,120
Speaker 1: meeting with Bishop Attacki in July of nine, Father Went

125
00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 1: was in Ukraine recruiting the very first monastic candidates, and

126
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,160
Speaker 1: at the same time Father Damien was back in Miami

127
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,280
Speaker 1: transferring all of the property that belonged to the monastery

128
00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:34,600
Speaker 1: to the school. Then a few months later, in December nine,

129
00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,520
Speaker 1: fathers Went and Damien legally amended the school's articles of incorporation.

130
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,080
Speaker 1: Now they said the Academy was an independent, self governing

131
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,680
Speaker 1: school in the Catholic tradition, but that it is not

132
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:55,600
Speaker 1: under the jurisdiction or control of the hierarchy of any church. Now,

133
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,119
Speaker 1: before these two moves, if the school or the monastery

134
00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,080
Speaker 1: closed all of its assets would have been absorbed by

135
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,720
Speaker 1: the Eparchy, its governing body. But now the monastery had

136
00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,480
Speaker 1: no assets other than a modest bank account, and Holy

137
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,160
Speaker 1: Cross Academy was no longer officially affiliated with the Byzantine

138
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,280
Speaker 1: Church at all. Everything now belonged to the directors of

139
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:23,200
Speaker 1: Holy Cross Academy, namely Father Went and Father Damien, two

140
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 1: monks who took a vow of poverty. I think Father

141
00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,559
Speaker 1: Wind saw himself as an intellectual. I think he saw

142
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:38,280
Speaker 1: himself as a great authority, and he desperately wanted people

143
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 1: to follow him. And what he was actually doing was

144
00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,480
Speaker 1: setting up his own little operation that wasn't under the

145
00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,360
Speaker 1: control of the eparchy, and it was his own operation

146
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,840
Speaker 1: where he was the be all and end all. And

147
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:54,920
Speaker 1: he even told that to the teachers, there is no

148
00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 1: higher authority than me, And that's not the way it

149
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 1: is in parochials, schools that are affiliated with part of

150
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. Everybody answers to a higher authority, whether

151
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:12,520
Speaker 1: it's to a bishop, went to the pope. But Father

152
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,520
Speaker 1: Went was very specific that there was no other authority

153
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:22,080
Speaker 1: to appeal to but him. By the following year, Bishop Attack,

154
00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,120
Speaker 1: he noticed what happened at Holy Cross and he wasn't

155
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,560
Speaker 1: pleased that the Byzantine priests were continuing to advertise the

156
00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:33,160
Speaker 1: now independent academy as a Catholic school. But the bishop

157
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,880
Speaker 1: also found out about a new project at Holy Cross

158
00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 1: and Pattacki asked to speak with the priests. Again. Here's

159
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,960
Speaker 1: Assistant State Attorney guil Avin to explain what happened was

160
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,959
Speaker 1: there came a point where he was aware that there

161
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:52,800
Speaker 1: were boys being brought over from Ukraine, and he met

162
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,520
Speaker 1: with Went and he said, what are you doing. We

163
00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,960
Speaker 1: don't take boys under the age of eight to be monks.

164
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,800
Speaker 1: This isn't part of our faith. This isn't part of

165
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,280
Speaker 1: what we do. And they met, and they had a

166
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,319
Speaker 1: long meeting over a couple of days, and at that

167
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:18,439
Speaker 1: point that particular Bishop of Passaic, New Jersey said, if

168
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,319
Speaker 1: you don't get the boys out of there, we're basically

169
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,760
Speaker 1: separating you, or, for lack of the better term, excommunicating you.

170
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,600
Speaker 1: They didn't come back to Miami and tell anybody, and

171
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,240
Speaker 1: because the Byzantine right is so few and far between,

172
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:43,320
Speaker 1: nobody talked about it. We know from the Upper Key

173
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,040
Speaker 1: documents that Father Went was feeling persecuted by Bishop Attacki

174
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,280
Speaker 1: at the time of the second meeting, so much so

175
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,960
Speaker 1: that he reached out to a cardinal at the Vatican

176
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,240
Speaker 1: for help. Bishop Attacki also sent a letter to that

177
00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 1: same cardinal, Only now his concerns weren't just about the school.

178
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 1: He was questioning whether the monastery was truly a monastery,

179
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,840
Speaker 1: or whether Father Abbot Went was really an abbot at all.

180
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 1: That's coming up after a break. Welcome back to Sacred Scandal.

181
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,400
Speaker 1: Back when I was still a student at Holy Cross

182
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,400
Speaker 1: Academy in the late nineties, I didn't know about what

183
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,600
Speaker 1: was going on between the school, it's monastery, and the Eparchy.

184
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,160
Speaker 1: Of course, after the murder of Sister Michelle and the

185
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,000
Speaker 1: sex abuse allegations were made, we students heard whispers that

186
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,040
Speaker 1: something was going on there, and there were rumors that

187
00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:04,120
Speaker 1: maybe Father Went and Father Damien weren't really priests. In

188
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,240
Speaker 1: trying to figure out the truth, Melanie and I came

189
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,400
Speaker 1: across some documents that addressed the conflict between the school's

190
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:14,320
Speaker 1: priests and Bishop Attacki from the Eparchy. We got a

191
00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,839
Speaker 1: copy of a document sent from Bishop attack in New

192
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:23,240
Speaker 1: Jersey to Cardinal Achile Silvastrini at the Vatican. Back it's

193
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,480
Speaker 1: something called a vote um, which is like an official,

194
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,800
Speaker 1: authoritative opinion in a case in the church, and in

195
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,960
Speaker 1: this vote, m Bishop Attack laid out a case against

196
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,520
Speaker 1: the monastery, arguing it was not a valid church body.

197
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,040
Speaker 1: He also made some other recommendations for the priests. We

198
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,240
Speaker 1: showed this document to some former Holy Cross students. Go

199
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,800
Speaker 1: ahead and read that for me if you can, okay.

200
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,160
Speaker 1: The directors addressed to Reverend went are as follows. He

201
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,680
Speaker 1: shall seize and desist from representing himself as a professed monk,

202
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 1: and its consequently forbidden to wear the monastic habit, since

203
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,720
Speaker 1: he is neither a monk nor an abbot. He shall

204
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,800
Speaker 1: see synthesis from representing himself as an abbot in general

205
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,720
Speaker 1: and as abbot of Holy Cross Monastery. The ron Gibol

206
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,600
Speaker 1: shall see sy thesist from representing himself as a professed monk,

207
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:14,360
Speaker 1: and as consequently forbidden to where the monastic habit, are

208
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,880
Speaker 1: permitted to reside as since a drive until such time

209
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,600
Speaker 1: to discern the future course of their lives. The Academy

210
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,440
Speaker 1: shall be restructured in conformity with the norms of canon law,

211
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 1: and shall not use as a name Catholic school or

212
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 1: private Catholic school. Without proper ecclesiastical authorization. I mean, it's

213
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:40,120
Speaker 1: something that you read and you're disappointed to know. Um. Yeah,

214
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,960
Speaker 1: this whole document is about a twenty page report with

215
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,240
Speaker 1: more than thirty attached documents to support its argument. But

216
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 1: neither of us are lawyers, let alone lawyers familiar with

217
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,280
Speaker 1: church law, and it can be hard to understand everything

218
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,400
Speaker 1: that's going on. We reached out to the Eparchy on

219
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,000
Speaker 1: some of the p but who are involved in the

220
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 1: bishops case, to try to understand what he was getting at,

221
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 1: but they didn't respond or comment. We even got in

222
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,360
Speaker 1: touch with the cannon lawyers for the Vatican who eventually

223
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,320
Speaker 1: worked on this case, but they also declined to comment.

224
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,200
Speaker 1: So to help us interpret why Bishop Pataki made these suggestions,

225
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:24,000
Speaker 1: we spoke with a priest and canon law expert. I'm

226
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,040
Speaker 1: Father louve Alone. I'm a retired priest of the Diocese

227
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,400
Speaker 1: of Pittsburgh. I also, for a long time was adjunct

228
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,920
Speaker 1: professor in the School of Law Ducane University, teaching an

229
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:40,160
Speaker 1: elective in Cannonball. To be transparent, when we talked to

230
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 1: Father lou we told him nothing about the murder at

231
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,680
Speaker 1: Holy Cross or the sexual abuse allegations against father's Went

232
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,120
Speaker 1: and Damien. Now Father lu also knows about the relationship

233
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,600
Speaker 1: groups like Byzantines have with the Catholic Church because he

234
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,880
Speaker 1: is a bi ritual priest. He's not only a priest

235
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,120
Speaker 1: of the Latin or Western Church and Home, but he's

236
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 1: also qualified to serve mass for the Marionite Church. Mayonites,

237
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,200
Speaker 1: like the Byzantines are part of the Eastern Catholic Church. Okay,

238
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 1: so there are seven Catholic churches. They're all under the

239
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 1: Bishop of Rome as the singular head and Vicar of Christ.

240
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 1: The largest one in the world and one what most

241
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,800
Speaker 1: people are familiar with is what we call the Latin Church.

242
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 1: But also there are Eastern churches. They have their own

243
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,480
Speaker 1: form of spirituality, their own form of liturgy, their own

244
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,080
Speaker 1: code of canon law. The Catholic churches in the East

245
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,080
Speaker 1: are under the Pope, and all of these churches communicate

246
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 1: to the Pope and the Vatican through something called the

247
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 1: Oriental Congregation. Back in the late nineteen nineties, the congregation

248
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 1: was led by Cardinal Silvestrini, which is why both Father

249
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 1: Went and Bishop Attacki contacted him in their dispute. Father

250
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 1: Lieu also told us that the argument Bishop ATTACKI made

251
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,120
Speaker 1: to the congregation, wasn't that Father Damien and Father Went

252
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 1: weren't priests, but that they weren't actually monks, and that

253
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 1: Holy Cross was not a valid monastery. And it all

254
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,000
Speaker 1: stems back to the fact that when they founded that monastery,

255
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 1: they also founded a new monastic order. And can I ask,

256
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,960
Speaker 1: is there some kind of protocol or process that needs

257
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,240
Speaker 1: to be followed to establish one of these new orders? Yes?

258
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,639
Speaker 1: There is. If you have a vision, all right, if

259
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,560
Speaker 1: you want to establish an order, the person who has

260
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,159
Speaker 1: the authority the governance is the local bishop. You go

261
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,800
Speaker 1: to him. The local bishop says, okay, I give you

262
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,560
Speaker 1: permission to start doing it. You have to write your

263
00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,800
Speaker 1: by laws. You have to articulate what your special charroism is.

264
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,760
Speaker 1: Why are you starting it? Couldn't this week put under

265
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,119
Speaker 1: the Jesuits or the Franciscans, etcetera. If the local bishop

266
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 1: gives his permission, he has oversight of it. For Catholics,

267
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,400
Speaker 1: terrorism is a special talent or gift from the Holy

268
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,439
Speaker 1: Spirit that a monastic order focuses on. Father Went and

269
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,160
Speaker 1: Father Damien proved this first step. They got permission from

270
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,119
Speaker 1: Bishop Duddick the abric and power when they found that

271
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 1: Holy Cross, and then they submitted their vision for the

272
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:19,359
Speaker 1: monastery and their terrorism would be building the school. But

273
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,680
Speaker 1: one of the next steps to becoming monks they skipped,

274
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,200
Speaker 1: since you know religious life is so old. There are

275
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,159
Speaker 1: certain steps. As a dossarsan priest, I had to go

276
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:36,879
Speaker 1: to the seminary to be formed, spiritual formation, academic formation,

277
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,000
Speaker 1: pastoral formation, and human formation. To be a priest in

278
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 1: the parish for religious orders, they have to be formed

279
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,639
Speaker 1: in that communal life, communal prayer, the evangelical councils. So

280
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,920
Speaker 1: they have to go through a training period postulancy, no

281
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:58,919
Speaker 1: vision to specifically prepare them for that communal life, and

282
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:04,119
Speaker 1: then they take homporary vows for example. It's an incremental system.

283
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,880
Speaker 1: So you come in as a partial and I think

284
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,159
Speaker 1: I want to do this. Then you know, if you

285
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,800
Speaker 1: do okay as a partilant, then you're a novice. If

286
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 1: you do okay as a novice, you take temporary vows.

287
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 1: If you do okay in temporary vows, eventually you take

288
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:21,920
Speaker 1: permanent vowls. Bishop ATTACKI argued can in law, stating that

289
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 1: for a novice to become a professed monk, they need

290
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 1: to be in that novice stage for at least three years,

291
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,360
Speaker 1: and then they must profess their vows to someone who

292
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 1: has been in a director position for at least ten

293
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 1: years beyond that to get the title of abbott the

294
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: leader of a monastery. The eprichy argued law, saying that

295
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,439
Speaker 1: a person needed to be a professed monk for at

296
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 1: least a decade. Bishop Attaki says his predecessor ignored these laws.

297
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,960
Speaker 1: And to be clear here there's a difference between a

298
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,680
Speaker 1: priest and a monk. They both make vows of chastity,

299
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,680
Speaker 1: but monks also take vows of obedience to their order.

300
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 1: They also take a vow of poverty to own nothing.

301
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 1: All right, So there was the priest who was named

302
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,400
Speaker 1: the abbot. He was in a seminary at one time,

303
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:16,199
Speaker 1: it appears, studying, I think, for the Latin Church. This

304
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 1: guy had already been formed as a priest in the seminary.

305
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 1: The eparch gave him permission to establish a monastery and

306
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:31,920
Speaker 1: added a second person for the establishment. However, the two

307
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: people that he gave permission to establish the monastery did

308
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 1: not go through the training and formation to become religious.

309
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 1: They did no partialance here Noviciat anywhere. They did not

310
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 1: make vows in any established house. Instead, the bishop said,

311
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: I'll take your vows. I'll make you religious. And the

312
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,120
Speaker 1: one priest he took his vows one day without any

313
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,040
Speaker 1: formation and appointed him abbot. He took the second and

314
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: one who was a deacon at the time, professed his

315
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 1: vows and ordained him to the priesthood, and said, the

316
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: two of you and our priest monks, and you can

317
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:15,679
Speaker 1: embark on your mission of establishing a school. Bishop attack

318
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 1: he's vote him to the Vatican. Said that there was

319
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,479
Speaker 1: something even simpler that the bishop before him ignored when

320
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 1: allowing them to create the monastery, a part of canon

321
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 1: law that's existed for more than a thousand years. They

322
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 1: didn't have enough members. So there's certain very very basic things.

323
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 1: If you want to start a religious order, a community,

324
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 1: a communal life, you have to start with at least three.

325
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 1: So that's number one. You have to start with lease three. Well,

326
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 1: at least goes back to St. Benedict in the information

327
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 1: of the Benedictive monasticism. But it's one of those common

328
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: sense things. Now, Jesus sent the disciples odd to by

329
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: two to preach, you need two people to go odd

330
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: to the world and read things because their support for

331
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,120
Speaker 1: each other. But if you're going to seal yourself off

332
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: kind of from the world, two is not enough. You know,

333
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: if two guys want to vote that they're your monastery

334
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 1: is going to do something. One guy votes, one guy votes. Today,

335
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 1: there's nobody to break the tie. So what does common

336
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: sense tell you? You got to have a third guy

337
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: to break the tie. Father lou told us that it's

338
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: from here. Bishop Kentucky built the case against the monastery.

339
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 1: Monasteries are able to run themselves as a community. But

340
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 1: he told us that without having gone through the proper

341
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 1: process to become monks, or even having enough members to

342
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: start a monastery, Father Went and Father Damien would just

343
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: be a regular priest and the property they held would

344
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 1: fall under the direct control of the eper Keys authority.

345
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: So here's the analogy. You can try to bake a cake.

346
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: You get all your elements together, you mix it in

347
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 1: a bowl, you throw it any oven. It smells like

348
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 1: a cake. It looks like a cake when you tell

349
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: get on and eat it. You left something important not.

350
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 1: You didn't put milk in, you didn't put butter in,

351
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: you didn't put sugar in. And when you take a

352
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: taste of it, you say, it looks and smells like

353
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 1: a cake, but it ain't a cake. So the new

354
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: eparch says, this looked and smelled like a monastery, but

355
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: the assasial ingredients, the laws that it takes to establish

356
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: a monastery weren't there. Therefore it's not a monastery, and

357
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: they're not, and therefore he has governance and jurisdiction over

358
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: their property, their mission, and their lives because now they

359
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: are under the promise of obedience to go where he

360
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: sends them to work in a parish or whatever. Father

361
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: Lew told us that even though all these basic rules

362
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 1: were ignored, bishop did it hadn't done anything against Church law.

363
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: Bishops are like dictators, he said. They can really do

364
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: whatever they want until someone challenges that they're breaking a

365
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: universal law of the Church. In this case, that's what

366
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: the new Bishop Andrew Pataki was doing, challenging Bishop Duddick's

367
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: old decisions. Father Battaki recommended to the Vatican that the

368
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: Eparchy figure out what to do with the school and

369
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: the monastery, and he suggested Father went and Father Damien

370
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: stopped dressing as an abbot and a monk and be

371
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: reassigned somewhere else. Now, the eparch called them back to

372
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: the eparchy. You are not monks, you are priests of

373
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: bidass Come back and I'll give you a priestly job

374
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 1: to do. It appears they did not do that, but

375
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 1: they had already moved their property beyond the bishop's legal reach,

376
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: and they altered the school's mission to make it independent

377
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: from any church. So now you have rogue priests saying

378
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: they're accountable to no one. I mean, the bottom line

379
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: here is and it's it's really I've I've got a

380
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: laugh because this is also really really complicated, and to me,

381
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: it's really really simple. You have two guys who wanted

382
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: to do their own thing, and they manipulated a bishop

383
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: and the church in order to run their own con

384
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: and they seemed to have gotten away with it for

385
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: quite a while. These were conmen, These were sociopaths. These

386
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 1: are narcissists as I interpret their actions, So let me

387
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: be more precise. What they did was narcissistic behavior. What

388
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: they did was sociopathic behavior. What they did was manipulative behavior.

389
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: Now they may be saints, and them and God may

390
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: be in a lot better relationship than I have with God.

391
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: I don't know that's interior, but judging by behavior and

392
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: external actions, this was a big con. This was a

393
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: long con. This would make a better movie than The Stink.

394
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: Father Loose said he would expect the Vatican to favor

395
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: Bishop Attacki's ironclad case, But the only evidence of change

396
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: that came from Bishop attackis recommendations was that Holy Cross

397
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: Academy was removed from the directory of Catholic Schools. In

398
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: our search, we've come across records of independent on site

399
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 1: inspections made after the bishop reached out to the Vatican,

400
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: but we've never come across a record of any full

401
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: report or ruling from Rome, and the surviving lawyers who

402
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: led the investigation for the Vatican declined to comment on

403
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: the case. Even the state's prosecution and defense teams never

404
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: fully resolved the outcome of the eper Keys investigation. It

405
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: was a time before Catholic organizations were compelled by the

406
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: PO to cooperate with law enforcement. Mike's attorney, Edith Georgie

407
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: said her legal powers only stretched so far. We tried

408
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: in our investigation to get through to Patachi and his

409
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: New Jersey people, and many doors were closed. Now this

410
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: whole investigation by the apparchy was totally invisible to me

411
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: as a student at Holy Cross. I really knew nothing

412
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: about it until we started interviewing lawyers, digging through documents,

413
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: and watching the testimony of the monastic candidates. We asked

414
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 1: Mike what it was like to be behind the scenes

415
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: and inside the monastery as the investigation happened. Did they

416
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: ever tell you or talked to you about the relationship

417
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: with the bishop or the Aparchy of Passaic. Yes, they hated.

418
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: The bishop always said that it's one of the bishop

419
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: that he really wants to call it was school and monster,

420
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: and he didn't like the fact that to be there.

421
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: So I remember they're being stressed out, especially when the bishop,

422
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: who says somebody trying to inspect the school. I remember

423
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: they're being nervous about it. And you know, they would

424
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: coaches and teach us what to say when they interviewed us,

425
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: or remember so that us. Oh you were interviewed by

426
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: the upper key. Oh yeah, yeah, yes, at least one time.

427
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: And I remember to the people telling us, make sure

428
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: you know you never say that things about the school,

429
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: especially when I would say that you're sleeping, you know

430
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: in this bed spend time in increase the room, and

431
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: you know who would tell you that? I believe it

432
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: was for the people too decided said that then of

433
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: course for the one would address in general, tell us,

434
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: you know, say all good things about the school, amounster

435
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: and that bishop the church you know, destroyed a good thing.

436
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: You know, it would say make sure he paints the

437
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: art pisials. Really at that, do you remember who it

438
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: was and what they asked you? I don't know who

439
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: it was, no, but I remember asking me, you know,

440
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: how a use you know, do like being in the

441
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: monastery as the prison or you know, doing everything right

442
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: as the prison or trying and doing everything what they're

443
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: supposed to do, and you know, and then you know,

444
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: and I've answered those questions that everything is fine. Did

445
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: you feel like you wanted to be honest but you couldn't. Yeah,

446
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: but I couldn't. I just would help everything. And I

447
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: feel like if I said anything bad or anything and

448
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: the Prince will find out that be setting and that

449
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: you know, they would you know, asked me or just

450
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: keep me out of the place and just so yeah,

451
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: so I remember they were really kind of I remember

452
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: I went ordering me to help Pather get both to

453
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: put more icons on a all of this room and

454
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: hide the TV into the closet, put a bunch of

455
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: cloths on it, and take his kingsize bed and put

456
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: a single bed and father Damian Gibbald's bed. Mike says,

457
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: isn't the only one he was asked to hide. Even

458
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: over close Patrol always stayed over in Went's house. You

459
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: will stay in Went bad. They only had one bed

460
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: in went bed. But for example, if there was like inspection,

461
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: we'll coming in from an intrusive partake. I remember one

462
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: time I'm helping because one says the help Atrot move

463
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: this bad so it looked like Astrolly sleeping in tepe

464
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: of room. So they knew they were doing something wrong.

465
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course, they say, okay, make sure because

466
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: this one room in Went's house. So there was nothing

467
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: but that but the whole bunch of garbage there not

468
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: like but the whole bunch of like bad is like parnition,

469
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: all picked up nothing. The room was unused. Butts said, okay,

470
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: so especially timing from his bishop from New Jersey's okay,

471
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: help before arrange it. Take the other thing a flute

472
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: room and put that in there. So it looks like

473
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: he's keeping in a separate room aside from being father

474
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: went assistant. Mike told us a lot about Petro Tornta's

475
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: relationship with the priest. He says that they lived in

476
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: the monastery and shared a bed, They traveled together, and

477
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: Petro acted as Wentz translator in Ukraine. Over the years,

478
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: they spent a lot of time together and they grew close.

479
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: But there was more to their relationship than anyone at

480
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: Holy Cross ever knew. Petro was Father went son. That's

481
00:31:50,800 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: coming up after a break. Welcome back to Sacred Scandal.

482
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: I'm Paula Burrows and I'm Melanie Bartley. The guy named

483
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: Petro was completely aligned with went and Damien and so

484
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: he was the hardest one, so to speak, to get

485
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: truthful information out of because you could tell he was

486
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: really in on the web that they had created. Um

487
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: she was bishop at This is Petro Taranta. He's being

488
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: questioned by defense attorney Ray Tassive about the Eparchy of

489
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: Passakes investigation into Holy Cross Academy. What we're bishop attacks concerns.

490
00:32:54,400 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: The only ware was thatship was not I think in

491
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: the Propavati the bishops who as I wanted to it

492
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: was very destructive. That's what very heard from Bishop Attack.

493
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: He had concerns that Father Abbott, the Father Beam and

494
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: we're not monks and we're not priest. I believe so

495
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: I think he was a mimoking and did Bishop Attack.

496
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: He had concerns that the monks, the priests at holy Cross,

497
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: we're not really Catholic. I can learn about that. Were

498
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: those expressed to you by Father Abbott? I think you're something,

499
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: Bishop Attack. He had concerns that what was happening at

500
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: holy Cross was not keeping with Catholicism. Correct. He was

501
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: trying to say that in general. I mean this is

502
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: what my knowledgists, which is very limited. The father imot

503
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: and I'm not real priests. A long ConfL Do you

504
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: know whether or not Bishop Tacky ordered and investigation of

505
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: the monastery all across to investigate the guardianship issues of

506
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: having thirteen ft fifteen year old boys at the monastery.

507
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: I don't know what the investigation was for or by

508
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: Whoman stories, but there was a long time that a

509
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: group of people came. They talked to Father Ion and

510
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: other school members. Well, they envous that the coverle of church.

511
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: They concluded that they suspended odership protactists acquisitions in Clemson.

512
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: They were on our side. That's for fact, the report issue,

513
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: but that wasn't very important. But that's what I know.

514
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: That's what you've been told, right, And he told you

515
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: that I believe Father Father. We wanted to pick up

516
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: here with Petro because though we've mentioned him a lot,

517
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 1: we've never really talked too much about him or his background.

518
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 1: He was one of the first monastic candidates at holy Cross.

519
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: We also know Petro was Father Went's assistant and spent

520
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: a lot of time in the monastery where Went lived.

521
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: Unlike some of the other candidates at holy Cross, Petro

522
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: had a bit of a different background. He wasn't from

523
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: a rural village, but grew up more middle class in

524
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: a small city. Both his parents worked, and he had

525
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: an uncle who was priest. Though the other boys didn't

526
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: have much contact with their parents beyond letters, Petro's family

527
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: became a part of holy Cross. His father and an

528
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: uncle were managers of the candidate's house in Ukraine. They

529
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: were paid to help keep it running and keep an

530
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: eye on the boys living there. Even investigators like Prosecutor

531
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: Gay Levine noticed something different about Petro one thing that

532
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: we saw was very interesting was Petro Taranta, who was

533
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: what we considered and what appeared to be the favorite

534
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: of Gregory Went. In fact, he lived most nights with

535
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: Gregory when he was one of the only ones that

536
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: had his own room in the candidates house. But we

537
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: saw that the bed didn't appear to be lived in

538
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: and the room didn't appear to be lived in. He

539
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: lived with the father. He lived with Gregory Went because

540
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 1: he studied later than the others, and he was supposed

541
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: to be like a servant or something. But it seemed

542
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: to me that they were staying together in the same room.

543
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: That's what it appeared to everyone. We thought that there

544
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: was just something wrong with that, and then he blurted

545
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 1: out that he had been adopted. The prosecution and defense

546
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: teams found Petro had been adopted by Father Abbott Went.

547
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: It happened around the same time that the Eperchy investigation

548
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: into holy Cross got under way. Mike's defense attorney, Rayed Tassive,

549
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 1: pushed Petro on the adoption and his relationship with father Went.

550
00:36:54,680 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: During testimony, father Abbott as quote, a perfect match is

551
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: that after him? Yes, what's your relationship to bother? Everyone

552
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: has about the sign whose idea wasn't dead. You become

553
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: his adopted sign Um Primarily, I would say, was his

554
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: idea and would benefit Did he tell you to do

555
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: it received by being his adopted sign? It was just

556
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: for my interest for the future, because it was aboutific compment.

557
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: Did he tell you that it could help you because

558
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: if the church was ever closed down or ceased to exist,

559
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: that you continue to have a relationship with him. We

560
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: didn't talk about it from the player. About that I

561
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: could see because it's computer. The reason, well, that's one

562
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: of the reasons he told you right. Well, the primiti

563
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: reason for the adoption was good relationship between him. I

564
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: mean if he liked me as his son for his

565
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: informations a holsome um here I was only father word

566
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: would want to best for his shot. I don't wanted

567
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: to make sure if something happens to him that if

568
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: I would be adopted, that wild be an advantage for him.

569
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: You loved you as a son, Yes, he used his

570
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: last name. I haven't usday for un I don't choose it.

571
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: So and he has he introduced you to other family

572
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: members as his son. Uh, probably to his mother Mr Taranto.

573
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: What year did you become his adopted son. I believe

574
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: it was not the age. You've been his adopted son

575
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: for four years. I know more much. That adoption happened

576
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 1: weeks before Petro's eighteenth birthday. Gail Levine, the assistant state attorney, said,

577
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: was something she never truly understood. It's very unusual to

578
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 1: have an adoption so late in life. And I could

579
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: not imagine why a monk would need to be a parent,

580
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 1: because really, a monkst job is to minister to everyone

581
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: in the church, and you're not supposed to have children.

582
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: You're supposed to take a vow of celibacy, just like

583
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: a priest, and a monaster candidate was giving up everything.

584
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: He was giving up his parents in Ukraine, So why

585
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: did he need to have a parent here? So initially

586
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: we thought maybe for purposes of immigration, but immigration told

587
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: us no, that wouldn't have mattered. So we knew that

588
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: that wasn't really the answer. And then the question was why,

589
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: And then we heard a rumbling about inheritance. Well, if

590
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: there was an a vow of poverty, why would there

591
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 1: be any inheritance? Like who inherits a church? We he

592
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: didn't know whether there was really an ulterior motive, So

593
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: that's really an unanswered question to us. Petro wasn't the

594
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: only monk the priest tried to adopt. Mike told us

595
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: and his lawyers that around the same time as Petro's adoption,

596
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: father Damien tried to adopt him too, and it came

597
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: up on one of the only two trips he took

598
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: home to Ukraine while visiting his parents. Yeah, because I

599
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: had to go and renew the visa. It was like

600
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: two years in or so, and uh, I had to

601
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: go and then for the get bold to adopt me,

602
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: and so they had to keep it like secret and

603
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: stuff this, you know, they said the reasons for it

604
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 1: would be easier from its big American resident. So so

605
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: but Soul, you don't see that happening at all, And

606
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: definitely the only ways like the monks of priests try

607
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 1: to adopt somebody, some younger boys to be that wherever.

608
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: Sound so unbelievable, So really we try to keep about us,

609
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: you know. I remember some me and pe both went

610
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 1: back to Ukraine pass for them to sign the papers,

611
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking about my parents. I said, we

612
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: both wanted you to sign the papers, so I forget adopted.

613
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: But I remember telling them in the background, says, you know,

614
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 1: don't do it, don't don't sign You were telling your

615
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: parents not to sign it. Yes, yes, I don't sign it.

616
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: So at the end they didn't sign it. And of

617
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: course you both suspected I would say something like that

618
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: to them. I said, I never said it anything, and

619
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, you weren't possession enough, And I don't care.

620
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: He was telling you that you weren't persuasive enough. Yes,

621
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: he was depending on you to convince your own parents

622
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: to let you get adopted. So why did he want

623
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: to adopt you? You think? Of course the reason they

624
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: would say was that be easier for me to be

625
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: a resident. But the point is that they were try

626
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: to pud up any other kids that were there at

627
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: the time. So anyway, the semi papers so they didn't. Yeah,

628
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask what was your parents reaction when

629
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: they heard about the adoption? Of course it was like chakula,

630
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: what the hell's going to happen? And can I ask

631
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: you to your knowledge, are there any laws regarding a

632
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: monk being a parent or adopting a child? Legally a

633
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: monk would be difficult. I am aware of a few

634
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: diocesan priests who adopt it, I would say that it

635
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: would be impossible to take on the responsibilities of a parent,

636
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: either in civil law or in cannonball. A diostan priest

637
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: who only takes a promise of obedience and no vow

638
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: of poverty, and I personally know own half a dozen

639
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: priests who have adopted children. But for a monk, the

640
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: structure would not allow for it. A monk who owns nothing,

641
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: who is totally dependent because of his viol poverty on

642
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: the community, could not establish fiscal responsibility for a child.

643
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: A lot of the times, these people who have these

644
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: visions of founding in order finding a mission, you wonder

645
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: if that vision came from God or from their own narcissism.

646
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: You know, these are people who live in houses with

647
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: mirrors not windows. But the reason why we have so

648
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: many rules and regulations, that's called discernment. You have to

649
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: keep testing against it. So if this came from God,

650
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: you're not the only one who can discern this. Other

651
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 1: people have to look at it and say, yeah, this

652
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: looks like it comes from God, not from your personal ambition.

653
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: It's hard to hear about things like the eparchy's investigation,

654
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: the transferring of property, and the adoptions, and not think

655
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: that the priests of Holy Cross felt the rules of

656
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: the church and monastic living did not apply to them.

657
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: But by the time the original murder case was closed,

658
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: none of it would matter, because by the time Mike

659
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: finally received his sentence, the priests of Holy Cross would

660
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: no longer be Catholics. That's next time on Sacred Scandal.

661
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: Sacred Scandal is a production of Exile Content Studio in

662
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radios Michael Podcast Network. Sacred Scandal

663
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 1: was created and produced by Melanie Bartley and me Paula Borrows.

664
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Dennis Funk of Written in Air.

665
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Rose Red and Nando Villa. Production

666
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: mixing and sound design by Helena de Groot. Our production

667
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: assistant is Imani Leonard. The show is fact checked by

668
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: Kimberly Winston. Original music and final audio mixing comes from

669
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: Patrick Hart and special thanks on this episode to Corey Chikowski,

670
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: Brian Robertson, and Travis Roig. If you'd like to reach out,

671
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 1: email us at hello at Sacred Scandal podcast dot com,

672
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: and you can follow us on Instagram at Sacred Scandal