WEBVTT - The Conservatization of Media

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<v Speaker 1>Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with

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<v Speaker 1>Me your Girl Danielle Moody pre recording from the Home

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<v Speaker 1>Bunker on Long Island. Folks. As I've said, I've taken

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<v Speaker 1>a few days off, but have left you with a

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<v Speaker 1>few pre recorded episodes, and I'm excited to bring back

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<v Speaker 1>to wokfkf's esteemed producer Andrew Marsillo to discuss how the

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<v Speaker 1>media has been coming more and more conservative. We've watched

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<v Speaker 1>it over the entire election cycle, but we've watched it

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<v Speaker 1>over the last nine years and have seen so many

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<v Speaker 1>different instances where the lies that we've been told about

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<v Speaker 1>the liberal media, the liberal media doesn't exist. The liberal

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<v Speaker 1>media is run by a bunch of very wealthy Republicans

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<v Speaker 1>who care about access and who care about ads more

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<v Speaker 1>than they care about any shred of our democracy. We

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<v Speaker 1>saw that with the Washington Post, we saw that with

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<v Speaker 1>the La Times, and we will now in a Trump world,

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<v Speaker 1>continue to see that more and more. I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>how the free press survives Donald Trump, and I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if it will, But what we do know is

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<v Speaker 1>that the trends have been going towards the right for

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<v Speaker 1>quite some time, so This is a conversation that I

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<v Speaker 1>get into with Andrew coming up next, Folks, I am

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<v Speaker 1>very happy to welcome back to the front of the

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<v Speaker 1>mic ahem, which is my fantastic producer Andrew Marcello, who

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<v Speaker 1>you've heard from over the course of the last couple

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<v Speaker 1>of months, getting us an insight into how the white

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<v Speaker 1>male in cell aggression has been seated and built through

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<v Speaker 1>the gaming industry. And now we're turning our attention to

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<v Speaker 1>the rise in conservativism in pop culture as kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a backlash to representation, to sexual orientation, gender diversity, all

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<v Speaker 1>of these things that have grown over the last decade plus.

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<v Speaker 1>We are now seeing a considerable pushback, both in policy

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<v Speaker 1>and in pop culture. Andrew, talk to us about specifically

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<v Speaker 1>what you have been seeing and noticing that kind of

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<v Speaker 1>over the last four years, eight years that corresponds in

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<v Speaker 1>pop culture to where we are seeing our politics drive

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<v Speaker 1>off a cliff towards.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for that introduction. You're welcome, nobody. I appreciate you

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<v Speaker 2>welcoming me back. It's hard for me to find a

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<v Speaker 2>place to start, but I think I'll start where we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about pop culture and the thing that really strikes

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<v Speaker 2>me when I think about this in my mind is

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<v Speaker 2>the movies, and specifically Hollywood and blockbuster movies. The world

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<v Speaker 2>of blockbuster films if you look back to the mid

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<v Speaker 2>twenty tens and the type of super mainstream movies being released.

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<v Speaker 2>The most successful among the most successful films being released,

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<v Speaker 2>Star Wars The Force Awakens came out in twenty fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>and grossed over two billion dollars worldwide, and I feel

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<v Speaker 2>that Star Wars The Force Awakens is notable, not just

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<v Speaker 2>because it would have done money anyway because it's Star Wars,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's part of the point that I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>get to. Star Wars The Force Awakens introduced a new

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<v Speaker 2>blackmail protagonist as well as a new woman protagonists, and

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<v Speaker 2>the movie was successful on the back of that. The sequel,

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<v Speaker 2>Star Wars The Last Jedi didn't do as well as

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<v Speaker 2>a sequel, but it still grossed over a billion dollars

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<v Speaker 2>worldwide and peaked at the number nine best selling, like

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<v Speaker 2>the highest grossing movie of all time. So there was

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<v Speaker 2>a minor backlash, a relatively minor backlash for people who

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<v Speaker 2>saw The Force Awakens and went, WHOA, The main character

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<v Speaker 2>isn't a white man anymore. It's a black Man and

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<v Speaker 2>a White Woman. Oh no, but the majority of people

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<v Speaker 2>still like Star Wars. Star Wars is still very popular

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<v Speaker 2>and very profitable, and the subsequent movies, while not performing

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<v Speaker 2>as well as the first Star Wars movie in ten years,

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<v Speaker 2>still did very well and still have very much generated

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<v Speaker 2>a profit and landed on the highest grossing films of

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<v Speaker 2>all time. Then you look at Marvel and Disney as

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<v Speaker 2>a whole, but you really look because Disney also owned

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<v Speaker 2>Star Wars, and I think Disney is such a dominant

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<v Speaker 2>cultural force, and I think actually a lot of my

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<v Speaker 2>argument here is going to come around the Walt Disney Corporation.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's a separate discussion to be had as should

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<v Speaker 2>one studio and company really be this dominant in our

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<v Speaker 2>cultural landscape. But that's not the conversation we're having right

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<v Speaker 2>now anyway. Black Panther, remember by Panther twenty eighteen. A

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<v Speaker 2>couple of years later. Yes, So we had Wonder Woman

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<v Speaker 2>from DC and Warner Brothers, and that was a minor success.

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<v Speaker 2>It didn't top a billion dollars, but it did almost

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<v Speaker 2>as well as Batman versus Superman, and considering wonder Woman

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<v Speaker 2>had never had a movie before, considering it was a

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<v Speaker 2>woman led film, which in twenty seventeen, if you remember,

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<v Speaker 2>was oh so risky, which is hard to even think about.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, that was only six years before Barbie came out.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't think when Barbie came out anyone was

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<v Speaker 2>saying like, oh my god, a movie led by a woman.

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<v Speaker 2>And yet I'm bouncing around, But like I think you're

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<v Speaker 2>starting to get what I'm getting at, which is, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Barbie made almost one and a half billion dollars worldwide,

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<v Speaker 2>Black Panther made over a billion dollars worldwide, Captain Marvel

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<v Speaker 2>made over a billion dollars worldwide. So these movies released

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<v Speaker 2>largely in the late twenty tens. And then you have Barbie,

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<v Speaker 2>which is sort of a vestigial production that took a

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<v Speaker 2>long time from production to actually getting in theaters. Barbie

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<v Speaker 2>started entering production in twenty eighteen. You have all these

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<v Speaker 2>movies and productions from the late twenty tens where it's

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<v Speaker 2>putting forward more representation for non white people and also

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<v Speaker 2>for women, yes, particularly white women, but there was more

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<v Speaker 2>than just white men leading the movies, on the posters,

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<v Speaker 2>on the big marquee top name, and these things generated money.

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<v Speaker 2>So what happened. So what happened?

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<v Speaker 1>You like, I don't I think that you lay out

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<v Speaker 1>such a good case. We have all of these films

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<v Speaker 1>that you've named that made extraordinary money at the box office.

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<v Speaker 1>They also brought in a lot of conversation and controversy

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<v Speaker 1>on social media as they were being developed, as people

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<v Speaker 1>are watching them. Barbie, I think probably the biggest in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of the right wing saying that young men shouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>watch this. It's anti man. This is a man hating movie,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of spewing the misogyny that they were talking about

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<v Speaker 1>me in the movie that was laid out very clearly

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<v Speaker 1>in the movie, and then you see it playing out

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<v Speaker 1>in real life. And I'm just like, every time that

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<v Speaker 1>there is a bit of progress, whether it's for queer people,

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<v Speaker 1>for black people, for women, for non binary folks, anytime

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<v Speaker 1>there is progress there, it is always met with backlash.

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<v Speaker 1>But this backlash that we're experiencing also is connected to

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<v Speaker 1>online bulok, which we talked about right The online and

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<v Speaker 1>bullying to me is like not even that, it's like

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<v Speaker 1>a euphemism to what you actually explained to us has

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<v Speaker 1>taken place.

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<v Speaker 2>But think about how a bully succeeds a bully succeeds

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<v Speaker 2>in an environment where they're acting out their behavior. Everyone

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<v Speaker 2>can see them acting out their behavior, and there's not

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<v Speaker 2>any sort of firm restriction of that behavior. Bullies only

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<v Speaker 2>flourish in an environment where bullies are allowed to flourish

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<v Speaker 2>and not in some way suppressed or had their behavior corrected.

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<v Speaker 2>And unfortunately, I think we're now living in a sort

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<v Speaker 2>of a culture where we're experiencing the consequences of bullies

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<v Speaker 2>not being silenced. And it sounds kind of radical as

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<v Speaker 2>a person to be like, we need to silence the

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<v Speaker 2>bullies in society, but like even just telling someone to

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<v Speaker 2>shut the fuck up is silencing them. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>enough of these people who whine about out women in

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<v Speaker 2>movies and black people in movies and seeing anything but

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<v Speaker 2>a white person, like those feel like the dominant voices now,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's scary, at least a dominant enough force where

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<v Speaker 2>it's harder now to tell one person to shut the

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<v Speaker 2>fuck up when there is half the room it seems

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<v Speaker 2>to be that person.

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<v Speaker 1>That is the distortion, right, Like, that's the distortion and

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<v Speaker 1>the echo chamber that the right wing has created on

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<v Speaker 1>social media, on these platforms where we're not like I

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<v Speaker 1>was actually saying this earlier today. I was saying, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like I'm not sure if fifty percent of

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<v Speaker 1>the population is actually magified and racist and as insane

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<v Speaker 1>as the media and social media is telling me, or

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<v Speaker 1>if it's just what I'm being fed, if it's just

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<v Speaker 1>the algorithm that I'm being fed to distort me from reality.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I say the same thing, just like in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of what you just offered. It's like, is the

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<v Speaker 1>pushback seeming like it's coming from thousands millions, coming from everywhere?

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<v Speaker 1>Is that actually true? Or is this like the Wizard

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<v Speaker 1>of Oz and the man behind the curtain is fucking

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<v Speaker 1>Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg, depending on what fucking platform

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<v Speaker 1>you're on.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's two things there for me. And I

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<v Speaker 2>was already thinking about the summer of twenty twenty three,

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<v Speaker 2>because we've talked about this in private, and how the

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<v Speaker 2>conservative backlash to things in the summer of twenty twenty three,

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<v Speaker 2>the conservative backlash to non white male representation as well

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<v Speaker 2>as the backlash to LGBTQ representation, it seemed to really

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<v Speaker 2>take hold among corporations. More so in the summer of

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three, and you know, something demonstrable to that,

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<v Speaker 2>so that people listening aren't just like, well, you feel

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<v Speaker 2>that way, like, for example, companies starting to carry less

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<v Speaker 2>pride merchandise starting last year and continuing into this year.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, as much as we talked about corporate pride it,

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<v Speaker 2>I feel that it's very palpable that there's less of

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<v Speaker 2>that in the last two years. And I also am

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<v Speaker 2>thinking about when Elon Musk took over Twitter. I know,

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<v Speaker 2>we still call it Twitter. He has distorted it into

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<v Speaker 2>literally a different site, even though it carries the same functions.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that does distort our perception because there

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<v Speaker 2>is someone with a lot of money and unfortunately a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of power and influence distorting the conversation and amplifying

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<v Speaker 2>certain voices over other voices. But then on the flip

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<v Speaker 2>side of that, to me, there is the idea that

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<v Speaker 2>perception is reality. And I've read reports and again going

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<v Speaker 2>back to Disney, Pete Doctor, who has directed some of

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<v Speaker 2>Pixar's most successful films and now holds a higher creative

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<v Speaker 2>position in Pixar, had said that they want to focus

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<v Speaker 2>on quote universal stories, and part of that, apparently, according

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<v Speaker 2>to them, came from a same sex kiss in the

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<v Speaker 2>movie light Year, which did do poorly at the box office.

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<v Speaker 2>But light Year was not a movie. It was a

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<v Speaker 2>buzz light Year movie. It was a buzz light Year

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<v Speaker 2>spin off movie starring Chris Evans who has star power

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<v Speaker 2>and name pol The same sex kiss was not really

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<v Speaker 2>used to promote the film. It was a very brief

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<v Speaker 2>scene in the film, and there's no demonstrable evidence that

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<v Speaker 2>the public has seen that a brief seconds long fame

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<v Speaker 2>sex kiss between two women in the background of an

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<v Speaker 2>animated film is what caused audiences to reject that film

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<v Speaker 2>and not want to see it in the theater and

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<v Speaker 2>latching on to that as well. If you remember, Pixar

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<v Speaker 2>had recently released films such as Turning Red, which was

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<v Speaker 2>about a Vietnamese Canadian girl, and Soul, which was about

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<v Speaker 2>a black man teacher. So Pixar making these comments about

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<v Speaker 2>what constitute universal stories when they're promoting a movie about

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<v Speaker 2>a white girl, is it struck a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>a certain way? And I think it's this part of it,

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<v Speaker 2>is this environment that it struck people in because people

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<v Speaker 2>can feel, either consciously or not that representation in the

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<v Speaker 2>mainstream media space and the Hollywood space is becoming more regressive.

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<v Speaker 2>There was also a report recently about Disney doing test

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<v Speaker 2>screenings for some of their films with essentially groups that

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<v Speaker 2>I just described in my last two podcast appearances, the

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<v Speaker 2>aggrieved white male audience who rejects anything that isn't white

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<v Speaker 2>male representation. So when you hold test screenings with this specific,

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<v Speaker 2>literal minority group of people and base your editing decisions

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<v Speaker 2>and base your production decisions around a bunch of people

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<v Speaker 2>in a room going.

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<v Speaker 1>Like any it's not late men, I want to see

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<v Speaker 1>myself on the screen and nothing else, then.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what you're going to get. And the fact of

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<v Speaker 2>the matter is, now we have these studios, and we're

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<v Speaker 2>aware of the fact that these studios are catering to

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<v Speaker 2>this small, loud minority of people who are boosted by

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<v Speaker 2>people like as we previously discussed, Steve Bannon and Elon Musk.

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<v Speaker 1>But what these businesses are going to find, because all

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<v Speaker 1>they care about at the end of the day is

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<v Speaker 1>making money for their CEOs and their shareholders, right, And

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<v Speaker 1>what they're going to find is what every fucking Harvard

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<v Speaker 1>Business Review article around diversity has found, which is that

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<v Speaker 1>diversity is actually great for your bottom line that targeting

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<v Speaker 1>and creating content for one particular group as opposed to

0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 1>all groups isn't going to serve you in the long term.

0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:59.720
<v Speaker 1>So do you see that throughout history? Again, we have

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.080
<v Speaker 1>these moments, these touch points where we're seeing progress, right,

0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.600
<v Speaker 1>whether we see it in you know, in representation, in

0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 1>our elected officials, you see it, you know on the screen.

0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.600
<v Speaker 1>There is always pushback, But at the end of the day,

0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:19.160
<v Speaker 1>to me, business has always seemed to move forward because

0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.120
<v Speaker 1>at the end of the day, the money is what's

0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.960
<v Speaker 1>doing the talking. So their progress continues to move forward.

0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 1>But are you saying that you don't think that that's

0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:28.920
<v Speaker 1>going to be the case.

0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.400
<v Speaker 2>That's what's raising the red flag for me. And I

0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:34.000
<v Speaker 2>think that's part of why I'm focusing so much on

0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Disney and why I started with those box office grosses,

0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.640
<v Speaker 2>because you have these franchises like Star Wars and Marvel,

0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.400
<v Speaker 2>and I know Pixar isn't a franchise, but at the

0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.120
<v Speaker 2>same time, when Pixar releases a movie, people regard it

0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.560
<v Speaker 2>as a Pixar film, so kind of in a way,

0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.360
<v Speaker 2>like a twenty four, they're a brand. So all these

0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 2>sub brands for Disney were profitable, demonstrably so with broader

0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:07.120
<v Speaker 2>represent and yet somehow these counter cultural forces who are

0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:14.920
<v Speaker 2>against representation and are for regression. I do I fear,

0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.240
<v Speaker 2>I will say, mm hmm. I fear that those voices

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.480
<v Speaker 2>have taken hold at those companies. And I don't want

0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.840
<v Speaker 2>to point fingers because I don't know what's in people's hearts.

0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, though there are some people high up

0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.960
<v Speaker 2>at these companies who are sympathetic to those kind of attitudes,

0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:36.160
<v Speaker 2>and that that level of sympathy actually does blindside these

0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.760
<v Speaker 2>probably men again don't want to assume, but it blindsides

0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:47.200
<v Speaker 2>them to their profit making. And I mean that doesn't

0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.480
<v Speaker 2>scare me because I no longer own stock in Disney

0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.640
<v Speaker 2>mm hmm. But that scares me because money is power

0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.200
<v Speaker 2>in this society. And I do remember, like when Wonder

0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:58.520
<v Speaker 2>Woman's coming out, there was a lot of from people

0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.400
<v Speaker 2>who were happy about just the movie's existence of like, oh,

0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.080
<v Speaker 2>we can have a superhero that isn't a man in movies.

0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.919
<v Speaker 2>This is where it was at in twenty seventeen if

0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.160
<v Speaker 2>you don't remember, uh, And it was like you got

0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:12.639
<v Speaker 2>to show up for this movie, you got to support

0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.800
<v Speaker 2>this movie. I think part of why Black Panther did

0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.720
<v Speaker 2>so well, not just because it had a phenomenal marketing

0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.000
<v Speaker 2>campaign and a lot of star power behind it, but

0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.879
<v Speaker 2>there was also a groundswell of like within I observed

0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 2>as a white person, within the black community, there was

0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.440
<v Speaker 2>a groundswell of like, well, we got to support this movie.

0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 2>This is we've got a movie, this is our time,

0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:35.320
<v Speaker 2>We've got to go support it. So people are talking

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.920
<v Speaker 2>with their money. Marginalized people who are getting represented talk

0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.600
<v Speaker 2>with their money, and white people who like the properties

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.119
<v Speaker 2>and the majority of audiences are not. I really do

0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.440
<v Speaker 2>believe the majority of white audiences are not this regressive

0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:52.520
<v Speaker 2>minded and are happy to watch movies that aren't just

0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.280
<v Speaker 2>themselves reflected because at their core, they still love good

0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:58.479
<v Speaker 2>stories and all that other stuff that you see at

0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.800
<v Speaker 2>the movies and spectacle and every anything else. So I

0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:06.000
<v Speaker 2>hate to like counter your optimism, but the part of

0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:07.879
<v Speaker 2>why I wanted to have this conversation is because I

0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.600
<v Speaker 2>am pessimistic about it. I'm pessimist, and maybe it'll change

0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.360
<v Speaker 2>when when the box office results come in, and if

0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.359
<v Speaker 2>an entire slate of all white Marvel movies and all

0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.720
<v Speaker 2>white Star Wars movies and all white Pixar movies come

0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.280
<v Speaker 2>back in two three years, because that's how long stuff

0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:29.080
<v Speaker 2>moves in Hollywood. And we see that that didn't do well,

0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.159
<v Speaker 2>and that, you know, Captain America, Brave New World with

0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Anthony Mackie did better than whatever thing they dredge back

0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.119
<v Speaker 2>up Robert Downey Junior from because to replace Jonathan Majors,

0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.560
<v Speaker 2>who should have been replaced. But like that, just look

0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.359
<v Speaker 2>at that alone. They were building up Jonathan Majors to

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.640
<v Speaker 2>be their next big villain. He gets canceled again, rightfully,

0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.240
<v Speaker 2>so and they say, well, you know what, we'll just

0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:59.320
<v Speaker 2>go back to the style here. Yeah, yep, yeah, you know.

0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.480
<v Speaker 1>I like to have optimism around this because I think

0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.760
<v Speaker 1>that there have been, you know, all of the films

0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.120
<v Speaker 1>that you've named, and there are more that have centered

0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.000
<v Speaker 1>the stories and lived experiences of people of color. And

0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:19.359
<v Speaker 1>you see that whenever that happens, this small set of

0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.520
<v Speaker 1>white folks like lose their mind. Right. I can remember

0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 1>the Cheerios commercial with the interracial couple several years ago

0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 1>that caused like a fucking frenzy, do you know.

0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.000
<v Speaker 2>And so there was that beer commercial with oh my god,

0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:37.720
<v Speaker 2>I forget her name, but like that was part I

0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:39.919
<v Speaker 2>think of the backlash in the summer of twenty twenty three.

0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.639
<v Speaker 1>Right, So I think that it's what is important. I

0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.199
<v Speaker 1>think the message that you say that you're sending is

0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:53.480
<v Speaker 1>that people need to show up to support these films

0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:58.919
<v Speaker 1>that feature diverse characters, people of color as like the

0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:02.600
<v Speaker 1>main characters, in order to continue to send the message,

0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:06.360
<v Speaker 1>because without that, the default will always be white men.

0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:09.960
<v Speaker 1>The default will always be to return to what has

0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:13.600
<v Speaker 1>always that, what has always been. And I don't understand

0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:16.840
<v Speaker 1>how you do that when the demographics of this country

0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:22.560
<v Speaker 1>and like the world continue to get increasingly black and browner.

0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.960
<v Speaker 1>So I'm not I'm not quite sure like how that

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.359
<v Speaker 1>ends up being good for your bottom line. Like taking

0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.960
<v Speaker 1>something like it would have been one thing, I guess,

0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:33.560
<v Speaker 1>and this is and I want to give you your

0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 1>your final thoughts. It would be one thing if you

0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:41.640
<v Speaker 1>had just continued on the same kind of white supremacist

0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.760
<v Speaker 1>path of there being no disruption at all in the

0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:50.560
<v Speaker 1>content that we see on television on streaming with introductions

0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:56.000
<v Speaker 1>of people of characters and stories focused on communities of color.

0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:00.000
<v Speaker 1>If that had always been the case, it's just been white.

0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:04.080
<v Speaker 1>But to inject it and then to go back I

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.680
<v Speaker 1>don't know if people still show up, even if they

0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.880
<v Speaker 1>are huge fans of a particular franchise, because I think

0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:13.160
<v Speaker 1>that you're signaling to them that you don't see them

0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:16.679
<v Speaker 1>and you don't care about them. Those are my thoughts,

0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:17.320
<v Speaker 1>what say you?

0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.720
<v Speaker 2>And thinking about that, I had been looking at, you

0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.679
<v Speaker 2>know again, the highest grossing movies and the number two

0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.840
<v Speaker 2>highest grossing movie of all time, which was number one

0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.360
<v Speaker 2>until they put Avatar back in theaters was Avengers Endgame,

0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.560
<v Speaker 2>And part of the whole hype cycle around the final

0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:39.639
<v Speaker 2>Avengers movie was the release of movies such as Black

0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:44.200
<v Speaker 2>Panther and Captain Marvel. So you watch those movies as

0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:46.680
<v Speaker 2>a fan with the knowledge in your mind that, Okay,

0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.359
<v Speaker 2>the next Avengers movie, Black Panther's going to have a

0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:51.800
<v Speaker 2>big role, Captain Marvel's going to have a big role.

0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:56.320
<v Speaker 2>And so at least a percentage of the people who

0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:59.359
<v Speaker 2>went to see Avengers Endgame went to see it because

0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.080
<v Speaker 2>they were that they were going to see Black Panther

0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:06.800
<v Speaker 2>again and see Captain Marvel again. So you regress from

0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:11.000
<v Speaker 2>that and you release an Avengers movie that's whitey whitey

0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:15.240
<v Speaker 2>white again. We'll see what happens. Will the same amount

0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:18.200
<v Speaker 2>of people show up. I don't know, will Disney go,

0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:21.480
<v Speaker 2>oh crap, we were making more money when we were

0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:25.080
<v Speaker 2>putting out diverse productions. I guess we'll see. One more

0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:29.080
<v Speaker 2>thing that I want to just consider thinking about when

0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 2>this is going to air, is I do have a

0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:36.440
<v Speaker 2>concern in my mind that some of this is going

0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.879
<v Speaker 2>to be influenced by the election. I think some of

0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:43.760
<v Speaker 2>the people who hold power and wealth and influence at

0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:49.240
<v Speaker 2>the top may see an election of Kamala Harris. A

0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:54.840
<v Speaker 2>nation electing Kamala Harris may take that differently than a

0:22:54.920 --> 0:23:00.000
<v Speaker 2>nation affirming Donald Trump and affirming the legitimacy and continue

0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:07.240
<v Speaker 2>political existence and continued lack of criminal consequence for Donald Trump.

0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:10.040
<v Speaker 2>So I think that is something that's going to have

0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:15.400
<v Speaker 2>influence over things as well. And again I've remarked, Hollywood

0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:18.879
<v Speaker 2>moves slowly. We won't see the results from this manifest

0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:23.919
<v Speaker 2>for another two three years, I believe, but I'm hoping

0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:27.320
<v Speaker 2>my the best I can hope for is that this

0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:32.760
<v Speaker 2>is a rut in our road toward progress, at least

0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:36.479
<v Speaker 2>in the mainstream media space, at least in the Hollywood space,

0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:39.200
<v Speaker 2>because the last two years have been very disheartening.

0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Well, we will leave it there today. Andrew,

0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:47.480
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for making the time to kind

0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:51.080
<v Speaker 1>of walk us through this on Woke AF because the

0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:57.119
<v Speaker 1>reverberations of like this, anti DEI, anti diversity, anti blackness,

0:23:57.160 --> 0:24:00.679
<v Speaker 1>anti queerness doesn't just stay in our poll's see. It

0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:04.600
<v Speaker 1>spills over into everything and it's really important for us

0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:05.320
<v Speaker 1>to keep an eye.

0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:08.120
<v Speaker 2>Out on it. So we appreciate you. Thank you very much.

0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:14.920
<v Speaker 1>That is it for me today, dear friends on woke

0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:18.080
<v Speaker 1>a f as always, Power to the people and to

0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:22.400
<v Speaker 1>all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.