Speaker 1: If I faced God today and he said, I give
Speaker 1: your old life back, but you don't get anything that
Speaker 1: you've gained from that to this stay forward, I would
Speaker 1: say no.
Speaker 2: Episode four fifty one with Granger Smith follow him everywhere
Speaker 2: at Granger Smith, TikTok and Instagram. So first, musically, a
Speaker 2: couple big hits. It's hard to we can't play clips anymore.
Speaker 2: But Back wrote song oOoOO, I can't even do it.
Speaker 2: This is my back wrote a good song.
Speaker 3: You got it.
Speaker 2: We used to sing that, dude like well part of
Speaker 2: that in a big medley when the idiots were our
Speaker 2: in our prime. You know, he's got a couple of books,
Speaker 2: and I guess the Kid's book is the new one.
Speaker 2: That's really what the focus is, and we get to
Speaker 2: it later on. But Up Toward the Light tells an
Speaker 2: inspiring story to bring a message of hope and strength
Speaker 2: to children navigating laws and grief and a lot of
Speaker 2: what we talk about. I want to say it dominates it,
Speaker 2: but we talk about a lot the loss of his son. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because when we talk about a lot of stuff in
Speaker 2: this I really like Granger. Granger also works for the
Speaker 2: same company now doing a radio show. I guess before
Speaker 2: we come on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we lead right after him.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, Yeah, it's weird because his is the Overnight show,
Speaker 2: so you but think it comes on way after us.
Speaker 2: I mean it kind of leads into us in a
Speaker 2: lot of places, you know, kind of took a hiatus,
Speaker 2: maybe a forever break away from music and now mostly
Speaker 2: just you know, giving his message of faith and his
Speaker 2: story with his family and Earld Doubles. Junior still lives, right.
Speaker 3: He's still doing stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: YouTube panel, Yeah good.
Speaker 2: So I liked this. I like Granger a whole lot.
Speaker 2: I thought that he was very vulnerable and very generous
Speaker 2: with his cues and his a's and that's weird. Also,
Speaker 2: before we start the we should do some kind of
Speaker 2: trigger warning, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he goes into some pretty detailed details about
Speaker 3: the passing of his son that even me, like listening
Speaker 3: to him talk about it, I never heard it in
Speaker 3: that amount of detail, but for some people who maybe.
Speaker 2: You're right, he does talk about like physic you're right.
Speaker 2: Good trigger warning. I didn't think about that. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: trigger warning. It does get difficult to listen to. But
Speaker 2: for a specific reason.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's why we decided to leave it
Speaker 3: in there because I think it's important to hear about
Speaker 3: like his story, and it's a big part of his story,
Speaker 3: but it's also could be difficult for.
Speaker 1: Something to hear.
Speaker 2: Good call but Granger Smith, Episode four point fifty one.
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed this podcast. I like to start
Speaker 2: the conversation with where we just left off. In personal life.
Speaker 2: We're talking about biten fingernails because I lied to my
Speaker 2: wife and said that I didn't lie and lie and lie.
Speaker 2: I might have said, I'll lied, Okay, I did lie
Speaker 2: to her. I lied about biting my fingernails because she
Speaker 2: doesn't like me to bite my fingernails. So I said
Speaker 2: I smashed it with a weight and so I got
Speaker 2: a bad hangnail that ripped the hangnail out it bled.
Speaker 2: She's like, oh, are you biting your fingernails? And I
Speaker 2: was like no, I was left and weight baby trying
Speaker 2: to get pumped for you. And she knows I like that.
Speaker 1: But why is that a thing? Why is biting your
Speaker 1: nails a bad thing?
Speaker 2: To two parts? One, it's just gross because everything you
Speaker 2: touch is now in your mouth. Meanka get yeah, and
Speaker 2: you can't even really wash your hands under your nails.
Speaker 2: Effect of work you can try. And then two, when
Speaker 2: you bite your fingernails, the little hangnails could grow on
Speaker 2: the side of them because you're starts to grow back,
Speaker 2: and it's just really painful and you have to rip
Speaker 2: them out and that hurts, or you can let it
Speaker 2: grow and it hurts, and it's just overall not a
Speaker 2: good deal. I like it though, that's my favorite. I've
Speaker 2: had the list hobbies as of today, biting my fingernails
Speaker 2: top three.
Speaker 1: So I don't think those two negative reasons though, outweigh.
Speaker 1: If it's your something.
Speaker 2: You passionate about it, I think about starting a foundation
Speaker 2: for nell bitters everywhere I'm thinks. I'm thinking about making
Speaker 2: a move like you did and leaving all this to
Speaker 2: go and work with nel biters and really pump pump
Speaker 2: that message. Yeah, be impactful about nel biting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just give out hand sanitizer as part of
Speaker 1: the thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I shouldn't do it, because again it's stupid. And
Speaker 2: I did. The tasty stuff, the bad taste you put
Speaker 2: on it, and you like put it on your fingernails.
Speaker 2: It's like Neil polished but it's clear, but it tastes
Speaker 2: so bad. But then I just developed a strategy so
Speaker 2: often do of biting without tasting.
Speaker 1: So I walked in here today and had no idea.
Speaker 2: That this was a thing, me doing a show.
Speaker 1: Well, no, no, not that that biting a nail, biting
Speaker 1: nails was such a thing that there were remedies that
Speaker 1: people will sell. Yeah, so that so that you could
Speaker 1: not do something that you actually don't mind doing. I
Speaker 1: love it, man, it's I don't get it. I don't
Speaker 1: understand that.
Speaker 2: I would say, mostly because of the health ramifications. If
Speaker 2: you have a lot of journals and you put in
Speaker 2: your mouth and young kids that that's usually used for
Speaker 2: young young kids, the taste thing or me?
Speaker 1: So, could you hold like a convention and talk about.
Speaker 2: Hold I go on schedule for next week and everyone
Speaker 2: a lot of people would show up Vancouver who was
Speaker 2: sold out? All nail biters that you really?
Speaker 1: Could you do? Could you do it? Oh?
Speaker 2: I'll mean disgusting. I don't want to hang out with
Speaker 2: el biters.
Speaker 1: They're gross. Evidently enough people buy the nail polish.
Speaker 2: And nail biters are losers. Man, to be with a loser, Uh,
Speaker 2: that's me. That's mean. How you been buddy? Really, it's
Speaker 2: awesome to see you know, what's funny about doing I
Speaker 2: don't even let you answer the question. But what's funny
Speaker 2: is like I like you so much and like respect
Speaker 2: what you do and how you do it, and also
Speaker 2: consider you. Like we don't get to hang out enough
Speaker 2: to be friend friends, but like a buddy friend. Which
Speaker 2: is that next level that I feel comfortable when you
Speaker 2: come over that it's like, oh cool, I get to
Speaker 2: go do this and not have to worry about it
Speaker 2: if I like the person or thank you man or
Speaker 2: And you know this because with your new career you
Speaker 2: got a couple of them. There are times where I
Speaker 2: feel like I have to be extremely on just in
Speaker 2: case because I don't know the skill set of the
Speaker 2: other person or how they feel. I don't have to
Speaker 2: do that with you, which means I can even take
Speaker 2: long breaths.
Speaker 1: M dude, that's a compliment. Thank you?
Speaker 2: Yeah it really if you could feel I honestly feel
Speaker 2: that way about you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool, thank you.
Speaker 2: So how have you been?
Speaker 1: Honestly what? I'm in a good place, better than I deserve,
Speaker 1: I should say.
Speaker 2: Is that a thing that you say?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Because I had a coach that would always say how's
Speaker 2: it going? They always go better than I deserve? Do
Speaker 2: you really feel better than you deserve? I?
Speaker 1: First of all, it is a thing because it's a
Speaker 1: great conversation starter. What do you mean by that? What?
Speaker 1: What do you deserve? You know?
Speaker 2: I think you might have to know good though. If
Speaker 2: you say that, like if feel like better than I deserve,
Speaker 2: I'm like, I wonder what he stole?
Speaker 1: So yes, so it could be just a thing that
Speaker 1: you say. It is a great conversation starter alluding to, well,
Speaker 1: what is it that you deserve? But on top of that,
Speaker 1: I am just actually in a good place. I really am.
Speaker 2: Was there a place we'll call it your live stock
Speaker 2: market because we've seen each other a couple of times since,
Speaker 2: and I don't feel like you've retired. I feel like
Speaker 2: in this world of messaging whatever it is, sure, music,
Speaker 2: Jesus speaking, singing, sports, whatever, the messaging is like, it's
Speaker 2: all a version of that. And where I do a
Speaker 2: radio show or a podcast, or I do a sports show,
Speaker 2: we shoot a sports like TV show. But it's all
Speaker 2: the same, even though it's not. And it's all fulfilling
Speaker 2: to me in different ways. And there are seasons where
Speaker 2: things are way more fulfilling to me than others, but
Speaker 2: there is now a fluidity to if you're brave enough
Speaker 2: to go try it, you might just be good at
Speaker 2: it and get to do it all. And that is
Speaker 2: something that I've seen you really thrive at because obviously
Speaker 2: you have massive success in me music, and I don't
Speaker 2: feel as a fan like you've stepped away. Even though
Speaker 2: you're in the weeds, You're not ten thousand feet above
Speaker 2: it like I am. You may feel that way because
Speaker 2: you're not maybe writing as much, performing as much, but
Speaker 2: your music always lives, so I can go to it anytime.
Speaker 2: It's like when Tom Petty dies, for example, he hasn't
Speaker 2: died to me. I didn't. I don't know Tom Petty.
Speaker 2: Sure he's still alive to me. Granger Smith, like the
Speaker 2: music artist I really enjoy, is still living just as
Speaker 2: he was to me. But now you've decided to focus
Speaker 2: a lot of other energy on a lot of other things.
Speaker 2: And so as the stock market of life seasons ago,
Speaker 2: did it go down at all after you decided to
Speaker 2: kind of leave in your mind a lot of your
Speaker 2: energy from music and put it somewhere else.
Speaker 1: The stock market as me as a product, not specifically music,
Speaker 1: because you're just talking about.
Speaker 2: Just you as a person. Do you feel like you
Speaker 2: took it down, you went down and questioned what you
Speaker 2: were doing, or if you could lose it all? Or
Speaker 2: did he get worse for you emotionally scary?
Speaker 1: Even, Yeah, I get it. I live in a place now.
Speaker 1: It's funny. I was just having this conversation on the
Speaker 1: way here, literally that if I died tonight in my sleep,
Speaker 1: it would be enough. Today would have been enough. And
Speaker 1: I didn't live in that world. For all of my
Speaker 1: music career and probably most of my life on top
Speaker 1: of that, it was always it's not enough yet. I
Speaker 1: haven't gotten it yet. I'm still searching forward. I'm pushing
Speaker 1: forward and I'm almost got it. I've got all this stuff,
Speaker 1: but I want a little bit more and I don't
Speaker 1: have that at all now. So does that mean the
Speaker 1: stock market of my life has gone down? Probably? But
Speaker 1: I think, but I think I like it to be down.
Speaker 1: That's think. That's kind of the.
Speaker 2: Point, which which then I think it's up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the way however you look at it, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Meaning I would judge the stock market of my life
Speaker 2: in the fulfillment that I have, And sometimes my fulfillment
Speaker 2: comes from things that I shouldn't be fulfilled. I shouldn't
Speaker 2: chase to be fulfilled by Yeah, those things that are
Speaker 2: very professional, non meaningful, ego based, award based, databased, short term,
Speaker 2: goal based, and at times, but like, I've been married
Speaker 2: now a couple of years, and it's been difficult for
Speaker 2: me at times because I was never with another person.
Speaker 2: I don't I have the emotional and I don't even
Speaker 2: mean this is a joke, but the emotional knowledge of
Speaker 2: like it probably not like a fourteen year old because
Speaker 2: I never it was just me, never had to be
Speaker 2: in an intimate relationship with anybody. And it's been very hard.
Speaker 2: And there are some of the things that I thought
Speaker 2: were so important. I don't put as much energy into
Speaker 2: going after those. I still do. I still care about
Speaker 2: a lot of things, but there's been a shift in
Speaker 2: my value system a bit because now I have another
Speaker 2: person and I'm learning how important that is and how
Speaker 2: hard If I work at that, the payoffs are even bigger.
Speaker 2: So I could go well personally, I think it's up. Professionally,
Speaker 2: maybe not as high as I would be, but as
Speaker 2: long as I'm fulfilled, that's my stock market up. That
Speaker 2: all comes to what I'm fulfilled with because I am
Speaker 2: not the place where I know with what I was chasing,
Speaker 2: I'm never going to be satisfied. And that's not a
Speaker 2: good place to be because it and I'm still there
Speaker 2: in ways, but it didn't matter, it doesn't matter. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to be that monster it's been to me
Speaker 2: forever is never going to be full And at least
Speaker 2: I can acknowledge that now that there's nothing I can
Speaker 2: do professionally that's going to make me go, I feel complete. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's that's that's nice to admit. But it's almost
Speaker 2: like a little like am I am I quitting or
Speaker 2: giving up? Or am I just maturing?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And that's the that's the American culture, that American
Speaker 1: dream that's just so ingrained in us. It goes, don't quit,
Speaker 1: don't give up, keep going, keep pushing forward. Amazing, that's
Speaker 1: amazing that we have that. You know that that's a
Speaker 1: gift that we have that kind of drive And that's
Speaker 1: really what settled the West was that mentality. But at
Speaker 1: what level does that become dangerous? And is that outstride
Speaker 1: or contentment? And I think that that's kind of a
Speaker 1: word that we're talking about here, is can you be great?
Speaker 1: You drive, you push forward, you chase, but can you
Speaker 1: be content with what you have? Now? That's the question.
Speaker 1: If the answers yes, then continue to chase and drive.
Speaker 1: If the answers know, then you need to pull back
Speaker 1: and start releasing some things.
Speaker 2: And my answer is no, but it's not no anymore.
Speaker 2: There's a difference to me because there's a bit because
Speaker 2: of my wife. There's a bit of growth in realizing
Speaker 2: that there are other priorities than those extremely fleeting entertainment
Speaker 2: or chasing a love that is not real through people
Speaker 2: I don't really know, just so I feel like I've
Speaker 2: accomplished something, because I feel like I've never accomplished anything again.
Speaker 2: That thing never gets fed or briefly and then it's
Speaker 2: hungry again. And I've been able to learn through her
Speaker 2: that the things sometimes that maybe I didn't even know
Speaker 2: existed with that are valued, like quality time, like that's
Speaker 2: there's that's currency, that's that's real, substantive, like the ability
Speaker 2: to have that and it go well means way more
Speaker 2: than I thought it would. So I've been able to
Speaker 2: shift a little bit of that. I just need to
Speaker 2: succeed to that, not all to that, and I wonder
Speaker 2: with my version of this have and you say you
Speaker 2: could die tonight, and I hope that doesn't happen. But have
Speaker 2: you shifted a bit of your Okay, I gotta do
Speaker 2: this professionally too. Now I'm doing something that creates a
Speaker 2: healthy contentment and fulfillment and me and I feel better
Speaker 2: because of it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, consolidating what I do to all the
Speaker 1: way down to the things that matter, the things that
Speaker 1: are meaningful to me.
Speaker 2: Things are now, how about that? Yeah, because I'm sure
Speaker 2: they're different than what that mattered five years ago to ye,
Speaker 2: what matters now to you that maybe didn't matter as
Speaker 2: much five years ago.
Speaker 1: Now I'm able to speak into lives and add an
Speaker 1: idea of hope in a world that a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't have any and so they chase other things
Speaker 1: to try to replace it. So if I can come
Speaker 1: in on a personal level, And you know, this is crazy,
Speaker 1: because I'm coming from a world where the more people
Speaker 1: I talk to, the better. So it's talk to a
Speaker 1: lot of people with a small, vague message, or talk
Speaker 1: to one person with a very impactful, deep message for
Speaker 1: a long period of time. And I go to bed
Speaker 1: that night feeling fulfilled from one one coffee I had.
Speaker 1: I had coffee with a guy last week who lost
Speaker 1: his son. I live in Austin, he lives in Dallas.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'll do anything. I'm forty four days into this.
Speaker 1: I need to talk to you. I need I need
Speaker 1: to have coffee. So I'm looking at my schedule like
Speaker 1: I don't know the guy. It doesn't really make sense,
Speaker 1: but I know this is this is why I'm here.
Speaker 1: I need to be open to stuff like this. So
Speaker 1: I say, yeah, Tuesday, will meet. He drives to temple.
Speaker 1: We meet.
Speaker 2: What made you say yes? I want to get to
Speaker 2: the story, But what made you say yes? Other than
Speaker 2: just going I just need to do it? What because
Speaker 2: you thought about it. It's probably harder to do it
Speaker 2: than not do it. Why do you say yes to that?
Speaker 1: I said yes because I've done it enough times to
Speaker 1: know that there is more fulfillment in that than whatever
Speaker 1: the rat race thing I was supposed to be doing
Speaker 1: on a Tuesday. So I meet the guy and we
Speaker 1: set this coffee shop for four hours and I talked
Speaker 1: for about twenty minutes out of the flour and listened
Speaker 1: the rest of the times. He's just unpacking unpacking unpacking,
Speaker 1: and then but the times I was able to speak,
Speaker 1: the short time I could, I knew things to say
Speaker 1: that would impact him in a way that on his
Speaker 1: drive back to Dallas, I know he's gonna be thinking
Speaker 1: about it. And then I leave there and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I've missed out on whatever else I was doing today.
Speaker 1: But that one guy that actually matters. I don't know
Speaker 1: why I can't articulate what you know in a cosmic way,
Speaker 1: why this one conversation mattered than me getting on a
Speaker 1: podcast and talking to thousands and tens of thousands, But
Speaker 1: it just.
Speaker 2: Did, probably the promised intimacy because you're actually there seeing
Speaker 2: something to that the effect of the person, and the
Speaker 2: same way you could play music and watch people react
Speaker 2: and have a great night as well. But again, you're right,
Speaker 2: it's a big, vague, broad message for a lot, or
Speaker 2: a nuanced specific message for one. And it's pretty cool
Speaker 2: to see how that has changed inside of you. I
Speaker 2: would imagine at some point you still like the other
Speaker 2: because I watch you speak sometimes what you do. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's definitely a specific ish message, but and
Speaker 2: you're definitely trying to affect people that are watching you.
Speaker 2: But it has to be tailored a bit more generically
Speaker 2: than if you're just talking to a person across from you.
Speaker 2: When you speak, to speak or your church, your preacher, whatever,
Speaker 2: how are you defining do you do sermons? Would you
Speaker 2: go yours a sermon?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's mixed like sometimes it's a church like literally
Speaker 1: this this coming Sunday is a sermon, Okay, Sunday morning,
Speaker 1: but it's not always. Sometimes it's a youth conference or whatever.
Speaker 2: When you speak and you leave that, what is that
Speaker 2: feeling like? Because you haven't set across from them and
Speaker 2: got their specific nuance needs a reaction, But you still
Speaker 2: just went and took your message and your feelings and
Speaker 2: were vulnerable and shared to people who are needing and wanting.
Speaker 2: That described the two, The difference between the.
Speaker 1: Two similar to concerts music. I could walk off from
Speaker 1: the message and and think, man, I don't know if
Speaker 1: I don't know if I did, I don't know if
Speaker 1: that mattered at all. I think that might have been horrible.
Speaker 1: And then there's other times I walk off and go
Speaker 1: I think I nailed it. I think I nailed that.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that I get the it's I get the
Speaker 1: same type of feeling. But but I do know that
Speaker 1: the sword is sharper with the message that I'm giving
Speaker 1: now as opposed to just a more generic I'm just
Speaker 1: going to play a concert and make you smile, which
Speaker 1: is great. It's great. I always thought of myself as
Speaker 1: being able to make people take an emotional journey three
Speaker 1: minutes at a time. But what I what I know
Speaker 1: now is where that the goal is to really affect
Speaker 1: people on an intimate level, so that if they are
Speaker 1: hurting past the point of I don't even want to
Speaker 1: live anymore, then this could affect that person in a
Speaker 1: positive way.
Speaker 2: And I think all are needed, and I don't think
Speaker 2: one's more important than the other. And I don't think
Speaker 2: you're even saying that I'm saying, I'm not. You're you're right,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to be a misconstrue. What you're
Speaker 2: saying is I don't believe that your message, and most
Speaker 2: people will hear that. But I think all are needed,
Speaker 2: and sometimes to be better at being able to have
Speaker 2: empathy or understanding that comes with extreme difficulty. Like any
Speaker 2: of the empathetic skills that I have, any of the
Speaker 2: understanding that I have that I can help with has
Speaker 2: always come through. It's really crappy stuff happening, and even
Speaker 2: with you know like a river the book and your
Speaker 2: tattoo says River, and you know your son and how
Speaker 2: that tragically changed your life and your whole family's life,
Speaker 2: And you would never wish that on anyone. The tools
Speaker 2: and the skills and the empathy that you gained from that,
Speaker 2: that you could go back, you'd never want to have
Speaker 2: to gain those if you were to ask, No, you
Speaker 2: don't want to gain it. You don't want It's terribly tragic.
Speaker 2: But what it seems to me again, from ten thousand
Speaker 2: feet up, you've taken those that skill set and now
Speaker 2: you're using it. Specifically the guy you met with for coffee.
Speaker 1: You know what I told that guy in the brief time,
Speaker 1: the twenty minutes. I told you that I was going
Speaker 1: to say only a few things that would matter, And
Speaker 1: I told him something that's only been a recent thought
Speaker 1: in my mind that i've worked through just recently, and
Speaker 1: I've never said this in a public setting, and I
Speaker 1: haven't fully unpacked it yet. But the truth is this,
Speaker 1: if I faced God today and he said, I give
Speaker 1: you River back, I give you your old life back,
Speaker 1: but you don't get anything that you've gained from that
Speaker 1: to this day forward. Right, you don't get any of that,
Speaker 1: You just get River and your old life. I would say, no,
Speaker 1: take I can't. I can't go back there even to
Speaker 1: have River back, because I was broken so much that
Speaker 1: the new growth that came from that death really from me.
Speaker 1: I'm not even I'm not. I'm talking about just me.
Speaker 1: I'm a new, different person and I can't go back
Speaker 1: into that old self again because I just see things differently.
Speaker 4: Now, Hank Tight, the Bobby cast will be right back
Speaker 4: and we're back on the Bobby Cast doing it.
Speaker 2: In that example of retrospectively, if let's say that was
Speaker 2: positioned to you beforehand, and it was you're gonna gain
Speaker 2: all these empathetic you're gonna be able to help, but
Speaker 2: you probably pick a different answer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's impossible. I would say no, absolutely no, Like
Speaker 1: I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 2: But it took real tragedy and for you to go
Speaker 2: through it, never be all the way through it, never
Speaker 2: like it's it's never going to be easy. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: never going to be. But to spend so much of
Speaker 2: your time now dedicated to helping others who have been
Speaker 2: in similar situations or just in broadly difficult times. I
Speaker 2: don't think myself included. I couldn't, I wouldn't couldn't do that,
Speaker 2: Like I and you gave up a lot to do that,
Speaker 2: And I think that is a it's a very noble
Speaker 2: thing to do where you're not asking for the praise.
Speaker 2: But it's like if I sit here and don't praise you,
Speaker 2: I would and praise you as just like I really
Speaker 2: appreciate you, Like I would feel like I wasn't being
Speaker 2: honest while I was talking to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I and I and I appreciate that. And
Speaker 1: at the same time I was also I'm so stubborn
Speaker 1: that it's like that's what it took, no for sure
Speaker 1: for me to finally be broken.
Speaker 2: It took also gotta be real stubborn to make it
Speaker 2: in the first time in your first career. Like if
Speaker 2: you're not nuts, you don't do a nuts job and
Speaker 2: not make it. If you're not nuts, you got to
Speaker 2: have a screw loose. It's gotta be the right screw.
Speaker 2: You gotta have a screw loos to even go and
Speaker 2: try to be an artist, a country music artist, much
Speaker 2: less one that's going to find success once much less
Speaker 2: one's gonna find success in the like a niche ish
Speaker 2: part of country music, which is the Texas scene, and
Speaker 2: then be smart enough to strategize how do I turn
Speaker 2: this into a national thing while not being turning off
Speaker 2: your old like you were able to walk this road professionally,
Speaker 2: really unlike any other artist I've seen, because there's so
Speaker 2: many people that come from where you come from musically
Speaker 2: that when they do it, they get turned on pretty
Speaker 2: hard because people go, yeah, oh, it's like the Australia
Speaker 2: top poppy syndrome. Oh yeah, you're a little Oh you're
Speaker 2: too tall, We're gonna cut you down. You're now not
Speaker 2: one of us anymore.
Speaker 1: Huh yeah.
Speaker 2: In that version that season for you, when you were
Speaker 2: just really killing it doing country music like you're one
Speaker 2: of the only guys I really didn't feel that from
Speaker 2: from the Texas red dirt whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 2: that scene, and then you didn't have whatever the Nashville
Speaker 2: version is going, this guy thinks he's better than us,
Speaker 2: and he's going to come and try to be a
Speaker 2: Texas artist, like you were able to navigate all that
Speaker 2: so perfectly. That took real stubbornness because every step of
Speaker 2: the way was met with I probably wouldn't do it
Speaker 2: this way. No one's really done it like this before.
Speaker 2: While you're doing comedy and comedy music, and you've taken
Speaker 2: that stubbornness and you've put it here and it's a
Speaker 2: beautiful thing as long as it doesn't make you mentally unhealthy.
Speaker 2: Sure that it makes me mentally unhealthy at times, but
Speaker 2: I found what does being stubborn? Absolutely I'll commit to
Speaker 2: something and I know I'm wrong at times, and it's like,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to quit because I don't like to
Speaker 2: cut my losses, even though I feel at times like it's, uh,
Speaker 2: probably the best thing to do, because I need to
Speaker 2: prove to either like the kid version of me or
Speaker 2: like an adult version of somebody who was not good
Speaker 2: to me as a kid who's not even around anymore.
Speaker 2: But without that stubbornness and having a bit of scrutlois,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't made it here. But I've seen you take
Speaker 2: that that stubbornness. It's now in a different place and
Speaker 2: it's a different stubbornness. And the fact that you can say,
Speaker 2: and I'm kind of moved by this, that if you
Speaker 2: were good today, you'd be good. I can't believe that
Speaker 2: because that kind of person. To be an artist, you
Speaker 2: got to be like it's it's all irrational. Everything's irrational
Speaker 2: to think you can be an artist. People are gonna
Speaker 2: pay money and stream your stuff and stream your music,
Speaker 2: and that they should come to your show and they
Speaker 2: should get a sitter and they should try to think
Speaker 2: you're good enough that people. That's irrational, it is, and
Speaker 2: you gotta be nuts to think you can do that,
Speaker 2: and you did it.
Speaker 1: And literally to be mad at them if they don't.
Speaker 2: Or to be mad at yourself because they didn't. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but now you've taken that stubborness and you've put it
Speaker 2: in a way it's actually changing lives, and it's I
Speaker 2: wonder how long you can do it until you start
Speaker 2: to be like I almost did. I did news for
Speaker 2: like early on, I did some TV news stuff and
Speaker 2: I couldn't be around the sadness all the time. I
Speaker 2: was strong enough and it kept doing comedy and I
Speaker 2: was doing TV. I didn't have it. I didn't have
Speaker 2: the guts for it. Didn't have And what you're doing
Speaker 2: a lot of what you're doing isn't flowers and candy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and are you going to be stubborn? And how long
Speaker 2: until you're you're like, I want to go back and
Speaker 2: do some music again. You know how, when when does
Speaker 2: the stubbornness here? Will you let that stubbornness go back
Speaker 2: there a little bit?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's framed. You framed it well because stubbornness would
Speaker 1: be the one thing that would make me turn back again.
Speaker 1: But I could see to right here on the show
Speaker 1: and say to tell you with confidence, as far as
Speaker 1: I know, I cannot see myself being an artist again.
Speaker 2: But will you be so stubborn because you said that
Speaker 2: you won't allow it even though you want it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the reason you framed it that way is
Speaker 1: because stubborn people do stubborn things. But as I sider
Speaker 1: on this couch today, I say, I just can't foresee
Speaker 1: going back in a place where I'm needing the attention
Speaker 1: so much that and that's really what it is. As
Speaker 1: an artist. I need people to love me on a
Speaker 1: level that they want to hire the babysitter and leave
Speaker 1: everything behind and stream my music and come to the concert.
Speaker 1: I need that otherwise I'm not succeeding. And as I
Speaker 1: recognize that, and I have to be consistent. When I
Speaker 1: say that I need to be consistent with writing books
Speaker 1: that I feel the same way. If I write a book,
Speaker 1: I can't expect a certain amount of people to buy it.
Speaker 1: Otherwise that's an inconsistency in my argument here. So I
Speaker 1: need to say I'm writing books for the one. Can
Speaker 1: I really live up to that? That's difficult, but that's
Speaker 1: the ar Can I write a book and know that
Speaker 1: I'm going to put all this effort just so one
Speaker 1: life is changed for the better because of it, Because
Speaker 1: that's a good goal.
Speaker 2: But it's a mass A book's a mass product though
Speaker 2: if it books like like you're speaking to a crowd.
Speaker 1: So then you've got publishers involved, and you've got a
Speaker 1: certain amount that you that they need to sell to
Speaker 1: make an overhead. So can I be consistent and go,
Speaker 1: you guys, do what you got to do. But I'm
Speaker 1: out of the rat race. I'm going to do this
Speaker 1: for the one. Now I'm humans. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't totally know the answer to I don't know if
Speaker 1: I could consistently go, it's only about one, It's only
Speaker 1: about one. But as I said here today, I could
Speaker 1: tell you with confidence that I don't want to go
Speaker 1: back to the music business.
Speaker 2: Do you have enough money to do this and do
Speaker 2: passion and keep the same lifestyle that you've built, So.
Speaker 1: That's a money thing. Is a new question, and it's
Speaker 1: a good thing to introduce into this conversation because that's
Speaker 1: another thing I have to be consistent with with my
Speaker 1: contentment in today has to be so financial contentment today
Speaker 1: without worrying about is this sustainable? I could be responsible
Speaker 1: about that and go, well, can we pay bills? That's irresponsible,
Speaker 1: But is a lifestyle sustainable? Then I have to go
Speaker 1: maybe not, and that's probably okay.
Speaker 4: The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the
Speaker 4: Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2: Have you had to have that conversation with your wife
Speaker 2: or most importantly before you have that with yourself at
Speaker 2: a level where you really spend time thinking about it.
Speaker 1: I have myself for sure. I think about it all
Speaker 1: the time because the more I give up with a lifestyle,
Speaker 1: I don't feel any worse about it. In fact, I
Speaker 1: feel more free. It's really interesting.
Speaker 2: Counteretitive, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And so amber Man just, by the grace of God,
Speaker 1: she's just she doesn't need a lot, thankfully, but it
Speaker 1: would be very difficult if she did.
Speaker 2: What about the platform you've created. Let's say you do
Speaker 2: this for a while and you're changing lives, but you're
Speaker 2: becoming a little less famous. There's a little less shined.
Speaker 2: Great because now I think people attach themselves to you
Speaker 2: because of who you are, what you do, and how
Speaker 2: you say it. But I think they give you a
Speaker 2: chance a lot of times because you're freaking grange Er Smith,
Speaker 2: your celebrity in their mind. The longer you do this
Speaker 2: and you focus on what is fulfilling to you and
Speaker 2: matters to you, that platform does not stay as tall
Speaker 2: as it was, which then could affect even the amount
Speaker 2: of people that you're able to closely change.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Have you had that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And I think about it. Yeah. It's interesting because
Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of mission work in the
Speaker 1: past past a few years. I've been able to travel
Speaker 1: to a lot of remote places, for instance, like the
Speaker 1: mountains of Cuba. And when I go into the mountains
Speaker 1: of Cuba, no one knows Granger Smith, no one cares.
Speaker 1: I'm just one member of a small team that's going
Speaker 1: into the mountains to bring medicine to children and to
Speaker 1: give a message of hope about Jesus. So when I
Speaker 1: go in there, when I leave there, I crave it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that was no one knew about country music,
Speaker 1: or even river or anything about me. I was just
Speaker 1: a guy with a message. And because of that, that's
Speaker 1: the only really data point I have on what would
Speaker 1: it be like for no one to know you? But
Speaker 1: just from that alone, I'm like, that's pretty cool, just
Speaker 1: to be a part of the team. No, no greater
Speaker 1: or lesser.
Speaker 2: You know why it's cool though, because it's not normal.
Speaker 2: Right now, Okay comes a lot more normal.
Speaker 1: Okay, I would say the life of Okay. Let me
Speaker 1: look at it this way. As I was in country music,
Speaker 1: I would always look at the older guys and go,
Speaker 1: that's like, that's the trajectory. You could either go to
Speaker 1: the to this guy, or you could be this guy,
Speaker 1: or you could be this guy. But but all of
Speaker 1: them are kind of you know the guy, the nineties
Speaker 1: country guys. You could see him at festivals, you know,
Speaker 1: at the three o'clock spot, And I would think about
Speaker 1: that a lot, like which one of those guys am
Speaker 1: I going? Am I going to be? Now? I look
Speaker 1: at a little church and a pastor, I say, little,
Speaker 1: you know, anywhere between one hundred to a thousand, and
Speaker 1: he's got it's just one shepherd and his other his
Speaker 1: other pastors that work there and his flock. And I
Speaker 1: see those guys, and now that's that's kind of where
Speaker 1: I look now, whether or not it's an author pastor
Speaker 1: that's written a lot of book and travels, or he
Speaker 1: has no popularity and he just has a little church
Speaker 1: and he travels the world that when he can. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, I see that, and I go, okay,
Speaker 1: that that feels like home.
Speaker 2: So you can see that and go if that's it,
Speaker 2: that's cool. Yeah, that's man's that's extremely temporarily very healthy
Speaker 2: of you. It is. I'm not saying it's not always
Speaker 2: going to be sure, but I know I change all
Speaker 2: the time with what's.
Speaker 1: A good argument that you're making, Like, well you think
Speaker 1: that now, talk to me and tend you talk to
Speaker 1: me in twenty years. That's a good argument you're making.
Speaker 2: My issue within myself has always been in my manager,
Speaker 2: someone that I talk with a lot, Corn Capshaw. Him
Speaker 2: and I have spoken a lot about platform and giving,
Speaker 2: and I would feel like if I did just went
Speaker 2: and did more unsoldish things. I've been a very selfish
Speaker 2: person and not in the way of like I need
Speaker 2: to be me, me me, but like everything's always been
Speaker 2: I'm an artist in a different way product and it's
Speaker 2: always how can I make the product better? How can
Speaker 2: I sharpen it? What do I got to take care
Speaker 2: of here? So it's been very I'm the sun in
Speaker 2: the heliocentric universe. I felt that way for a long time.
Speaker 2: And also I didn't have a family, and so I
Speaker 2: was even as a kid I grew up, it was
Speaker 2: just me surviving. And so what if I was a
Speaker 2: little less selfish and I took thirty percent of the
Speaker 2: time forty percent of the time and didn't do as
Speaker 2: much artist ry whatever you call it, and did more
Speaker 2: of let'll just call it general giving. And the conversation
Speaker 2: that I had with Korn, who was given so much,
Speaker 2: and he referenced somebody that's very famous that he has
Speaker 2: worked with, and he said, it's gonna have to be
Speaker 2: what fulfills you either way, because there's no line, there's
Speaker 2: no right answer for this. But if you lose your platform,
Speaker 2: there is the possibility you actually lose the ability to
Speaker 2: give as much as you want to give, and you
Speaker 2: have to find that line of if you decide to
Speaker 2: take eighty percent of your time and go and give
Speaker 2: and go and do things, well, that's eighty percent of
Speaker 2: the time that you're not able to sustain what people
Speaker 2: even care for you about, so you can give more.
Speaker 2: And I think my struggle has been finding that line.
Speaker 1: So the question is it becomes is it a heart
Speaker 1: issue or an impact issue, because if you're trying to
Speaker 1: it can be both. It can be both, it can
Speaker 1: be both, but it always starts with the heart, not
Speaker 1: the impact. So you know, for instance, when Jesus was
Speaker 1: watching the people come on and tie and give all
Speaker 1: the money and all these all the people at all
Speaker 1: this money and they're given, and he's looking at he's
Speaker 1: with the disciples, and that one lady comes in with
Speaker 1: two small copper coins and he says, you see that
Speaker 1: woman gave all that she had. That is from the heart.
Speaker 1: That's what matters. And so it's interesting to think about
Speaker 1: that because we you and I both will think bigger platform,
Speaker 1: bigger impact, bigger help affect more people, fact more people
Speaker 1: help the world. But when I've gone and experienced you know,
Speaker 1: the like a trip to Cuba, like I said, and
Speaker 1: I'm just impacting in a very small way, but on
Speaker 1: a personal level, I my heart is much more enlarged
Speaker 1: by doing that. Interestingly enough, as opposed to let's raise
Speaker 1: as much money as we can and give a billion
Speaker 1: dollars to starving kids in India. There's a disconnection there,
Speaker 1: and that's something that I still want to unpack. But
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting to think, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It feels like you're closer to your line than I
Speaker 2: am mine because I can't find mine right now. Like
Speaker 2: I don't know, because I want to do a lot
Speaker 2: of things and help a lot of people, but I
Speaker 2: don't want to lose my ability to have that line
Speaker 2: to get to them. And I don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: I can't really I'm still searching for my line.
Speaker 1: Well so partly. And this is what I had to
Speaker 1: learn after losing riv is I don't I don't get
Speaker 1: to decide what happens in my life. There's something out there,
Speaker 1: there's something else that's I can't control it all. And
Speaker 1: so when I thought I had the wife and the
Speaker 1: three kids and everything was great, and then and then
Speaker 1: all that falls apart. That's a that's a slap in
Speaker 1: the face that wait a minute, you mean, I don't
Speaker 1: have control over everything, and so to think that I
Speaker 1: need to plan because I need to have control over
Speaker 1: my giving and my philanthropy and my in my books,
Speaker 1: and I need to control that and my and the
Speaker 1: money that we have to live on, or do I
Speaker 1: live day to day and go, I'm going to give
Speaker 1: my heart today and trust that there is there's something
Speaker 1: else that's that's driving everything and not me.
Speaker 2: And theory that sounds awesome, well if it is me.
Speaker 1: So to test the theory, we have to see how
Speaker 1: do how do we experience that in life? So your
Speaker 1: experience so far, what you've just what you've said is
Speaker 1: that when you do try to make a big splash
Speaker 1: and give, you feel like there's something.
Speaker 2: Else, something a little more personal. But I still want
Speaker 2: to reach a lot of people, and there's a threshold,
Speaker 2: but I don't. I don't know where it is. I
Speaker 2: can't find it right now.
Speaker 1: What do you love to do when as far as giving.
Speaker 2: Back, it's very selfish? No, no, no, But my love
Speaker 2: to give back is very selfish, okay, And and that
Speaker 2: I only really understand stuff that's happened to me. So
Speaker 2: food insecurity okay, sure, But I don't for the most
Speaker 2: part see those people, right, But I know what it
Speaker 2: was like for people that didn't see me, and when
Speaker 2: they gave us food, it changed my life. So I
Speaker 2: don't think I need to be there because they weren't
Speaker 2: always there for me.
Speaker 1: What is the thing that you do to fulfill that
Speaker 1: desire for the needy?
Speaker 2: That one would be a financial Okay, yes, great, So.
Speaker 1: The challenge would be, let's go to Cambodia and go
Speaker 1: in a slum when instead of a lot of money,
Speaker 1: we have a meal. We go to find a family
Speaker 1: that needs a meal. Maybe that's the disconnect you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Then maybe that's the gray area.
Speaker 2: Maybe like I've been to Haiti and done, you know,
Speaker 2: and and you know, we we built a freaking orphanage
Speaker 2: over there, you know. But I wasn't an orphan and
Speaker 2: it felt good to know I help people, but there
Speaker 2: wasn't a personal like it's super personal, like I know
Speaker 2: what that feels like. So therefore I feel selfish because
Speaker 2: I'm like, what why am I?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Why can't I like help birds or something? Because I
Speaker 2: wish I just had something in me that was like
Speaker 2: I just want to help something that's not I think
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to fix young me. I think that's
Speaker 2: what like, I'm working inside of a time machine and
Speaker 2: I'm trying to be trying to get to a younger
Speaker 2: version of me and be there in that way that
Speaker 2: people were there for me. A hospital like work a
Speaker 2: lot with Saint Jude. I was in the hospital as
Speaker 2: a kid a bunch okay, didn't have cancer, but without
Speaker 2: people helping it just wouldn't. That church being there and
Speaker 2: bringing mells and and Saint Jude is a natural thing
Speaker 2: to walk into here. However, it's been a different level
Speaker 2: with me and us because of my experience of being
Speaker 2: in a hospital, as in the hospital as a kid
Speaker 2: and depending on others, which is what that hospital does.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I do get to meet different patients, but again it's
Speaker 2: that doesn't feel very personal, except I guess the personal
Speaker 2: thing is that it's I. That's why I say it selfish,
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm helping me even though it's not
Speaker 2: really me.
Speaker 1: What were you missing? What was the young version of
Speaker 1: you missing during those times that now you're trying to.
Speaker 2: Fill Generally, probably I mean stability, love, and it's you know,
Speaker 2: I didn't know my dad mom was an adict, so
Speaker 2: it's kind of just by myself mostly not physically always,
Speaker 2: but it was. It was definitely emotionally like I was.
Speaker 2: It was very alone. We also didn't have money. So
Speaker 2: if it weren't for people like helping out food like
Speaker 2: I mentioned, like I needed that school supplies like that
Speaker 2: wouldn't have happened. So that's what I try to do.
Speaker 2: And a lot of times I just feel like I
Speaker 2: can fix it in a lot of ways with just
Speaker 2: we make more money, so I can help raise more
Speaker 2: money or give more money. But then there's this like
Speaker 2: a personal connection that's not quite there.
Speaker 1: Do you go to Arkansas a lot? Do you do
Speaker 1: you ever find kids where you go? That's that was me.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and I help them as much as I
Speaker 2: can immediately with what, uh, well money, here's just money,
Speaker 2: here's here to take money.
Speaker 1: How do you feel when you do that, like.
Speaker 2: I need to do it more? Never good, but like
Speaker 2: I need like it's still not.
Speaker 1: Enough, Like it's not enough. Yeah. Interesting, How do you feel.
Speaker 2: After the coffee and you talk for twenty minutes? He
Speaker 2: talked for almost four hours, which is the purpose of it, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: how I mean, what does that feel? Did you do
Speaker 2: you feel like I just did enough, or that's inspired
Speaker 2: me to do more like this, to give up more
Speaker 2: tuesdays on my calendars packed for situations like this.
Speaker 1: How do you feel over time? That's that's definitely changed
Speaker 1: because coming right out of being an artist, it was like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's hyper sensitive to my schedule and very
Speaker 1: aware of the rat race and you know, making the
Speaker 1: big impact. And I think I learned that the those
Speaker 1: those type of conversations, I was starting to leave them
Speaker 1: more and more saying that was enough. I did what
Speaker 1: I needed to do today, and if I don't wake
Speaker 1: up in the morning today was enough. That was I
Speaker 1: didn't just wake up and start thinking that. But I
Speaker 1: feel that more than I do when I go speak.
Speaker 1: In fact, it's crazy because I'll go speak at a
Speaker 1: youth conference and a bunch of kids everywhere, and I'll
Speaker 1: leave and go was it enough? I don't know. There's
Speaker 1: a disconnection, there's a personal disconnection.
Speaker 2: Did you what's your parents situation? Are they alive or
Speaker 2: were they together?
Speaker 1: Dad? They were together lost at in twenty fourteen, older
Speaker 1: fifty or sixty one.
Speaker 2: So too young but old enough for you to have
Speaker 2: a full life with them?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, were they loving? And supportive to you. Yes, so
Speaker 2: you have that language.
Speaker 1: That you learned.
Speaker 2: Sorry, we had to show last on my voices. Looky,
Speaker 2: I don't really have that length. Like the personal thing.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm not good. I can do it on
Speaker 2: stage in front of thousands of people. Well, then, like,
Speaker 2: I don't think I could have this conversation if we
Speaker 2: didn't have Mike's in front of us. M which is weird.
Speaker 2: I don't think I would be vulnerable enough. But because
Speaker 2: this is a show, I'm not doing a show, but
Speaker 2: it is a show, so it's not real. So I
Speaker 2: would have trouble sitting with a guy for four hours
Speaker 2: going I feel you, I understand you, let me help you.
Speaker 2: Because I don't know. I couldn't communicate that we do
Speaker 2: this got it? And I think that's probably where a
Speaker 2: little bit of my disconnect comes. I don't skilled at
Speaker 2: I think it's been a learning part of my marriage
Speaker 2: is that communication. Like I said, I'm like fourteen, like
Speaker 2: a teenager, I'm not ten anymore, which I was when
Speaker 2: we got married. That did not have the skills loved
Speaker 2: or had no skills and being intimate. And I'm not
Speaker 2: talking about like sex. I'm talking about like two people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and maybe my development here helps me there, And that's
Speaker 2: so great.
Speaker 1: So how far have you come since you got married?
Speaker 1: Been in out ten miles? So that what you're saying
Speaker 1: is with experience, with practice, that that personal connection gets
Speaker 1: easier and grows with practice.
Speaker 2: But also, yes, and we're doing it wrong because that's
Speaker 2: where I learn what's trying to learn anything? Really? But
Speaker 2: it's like when we I used to think every fight
Speaker 2: we got into, we're about to get divorced. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: because I've never been in a fight. I was never
Speaker 2: with anybody. And now I've realized that the fights that
Speaker 2: we get into are actually like classes and like learning
Speaker 2: each other more. We tend to not get into that
Speaker 2: same exact fight again. Sometimes I have, you know, have
Speaker 2: biting my fingernails. That's not a fight, but she's like,
Speaker 2: stop biting your fingernails. But there are like fundamental ones
Speaker 2: that it's taken that really uncomfortable situation for me to
Speaker 2: learn and to get better at and then to communicate
Speaker 2: the next time in a more effective way. And I
Speaker 2: think that's how I've traveled these yeah, these miles. Now professionally,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm I'm I'm a Methuselah. Sure what, Yeah, Like
Speaker 2: I've been through I've been through it all, done bad contracts.
Speaker 2: I've accomplished things that I didn't think I was accomplished.
Speaker 2: I've not accomplished things I've written, I've done I could act,
Speaker 2: So I have that I've done a ton and I'm
Speaker 2: very educated and I can help people and I feel good.
Speaker 2: I guess it for three hours to get people advice,
Speaker 2: but when it and I think that's where I'm missing
Speaker 2: my my line. But I feel okay about that. I'm
Speaker 2: getting there because I'm actually getting better at on a
Speaker 2: more micro level here. Then that's the only way I
Speaker 2: would have start.
Speaker 1: You know that a big difference between me now and
Speaker 1: me ten years ago is one of the I guess
Speaker 1: one of the many reasons is I'll see a guy
Speaker 1: like in the parking lot and he'll go, hey, Granger, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'll see it on his face. I know something's
Speaker 1: going on. Hey man, I talked to you just for
Speaker 1: a second. Man, I'm really going through something. I lost
Speaker 1: this or that I don't know what to do. And
Speaker 1: you're the only guy that I like to listen to.
Speaker 1: That the only guy I could hear and this this
Speaker 1: is the difference. I'll go, we'll talk for a little bit,
Speaker 1: I'll get a little bit of a read on him.
Speaker 1: I'll pull up my phone, pull up the context page
Speaker 1: and say, put your number in here, let's talk. Man.
Speaker 1: That is so far from the I would so I
Speaker 1: would hold my number. I wouldn't give my number out.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: I'd be so worried about my personal space and like
Speaker 1: my time. And now I'm like, hey, man, call me.
Speaker 1: And it's really stepping off of a ledge for me
Speaker 1: to say that. But the more and more I do it,
Speaker 1: I get used to it. And surprisingly, for the most part,
Speaker 1: people respect that. If I give them my phone and
Speaker 1: say write your contact in or I'll text you, they're
Speaker 1: pretty respectful. I don't think I have anyone that has
Speaker 1: been disrespectful of that. But it has been interesting to build.
Speaker 1: I have a lot of people that kind of build
Speaker 1: these little relationships just from texting. It's interesting.
Speaker 5: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor,
Speaker 5: Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2: When you're writing, and I haven't looked at a single, No,
Speaker 2: I haven't even I don't know any I haven't looked
Speaker 2: at a single even worry about it. But my question
Speaker 2: is because again I feel like I can just talk
Speaker 2: to you about whatever, and I don't have like tiptoe
Speaker 2: around the line, right sure, otherwise I want to be like,
Speaker 2: how about your money? Like I really feel like I
Speaker 2: can disask that, because I think people wonder that when
Speaker 2: you write, and not so much like up toward the light,
Speaker 2: which we can get to it. But when you write
Speaker 2: like a River, it's very it's extremely at times personal,
Speaker 2: and you have to re refeel things and sometimes discover
Speaker 2: things that you didn't feel the first time. Yeah, or
Speaker 2: at least not fully because it was so painful that
Speaker 2: you're not you can't take it all in all at once.
Speaker 2: It's like a fire hose coming at you when you
Speaker 2: write a book like like a River, and you have
Speaker 2: to re experience some of the things by writing about
Speaker 2: it or even thinking about if you're going to write
Speaker 2: it about it or not. How difficult was that to
Speaker 2: kind of travel back through and try to communicate properly
Speaker 2: because you've had a little distance from it. It still sucks,
Speaker 2: but now you not just feeling, You've got to feel
Speaker 2: it and communicate it and yet still take yourself through
Speaker 2: it again. So you can't communicate it.
Speaker 1: When I first was kind of putting together the outline
Speaker 1: for it, I realized early on, this is going to
Speaker 1: be more than I thought, because the first literally the
Speaker 1: first chapter is we lose River, and then I've got
Speaker 1: a bunch of I've got a bunch more chapters, and
Speaker 1: it's all the aftermath. Really, the book is really the
Speaker 1: aftermath of losing him. And as I was doing the outline,
Speaker 1: and this is this chapter, then i'll say this, i'll
Speaker 1: say this, I'll say this, and I completed it, and
Speaker 1: I knew there was a piece I was intentionally missing
Speaker 1: because I just didn't want to go there, and it
Speaker 1: was the time when I was, you know, almost killed
Speaker 1: myself suicide. But the story wasn't complete without it. So
Speaker 1: at some level I was like, my wife didn't know
Speaker 1: about it, no one knew about it. It's like it
Speaker 1: needs to be a chapter because this part doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense down here without the connector. And the connector was
Speaker 1: the dark night that I had, and so going there
Speaker 1: was something. And then not only going there, but then
Speaker 1: I called Amber and I told her I got to
Speaker 1: tell you. I literally waited till the book proposal was done,
Speaker 1: and they're going to pitch it to publishers. And the
Speaker 1: book proposal had a chapter summaries, and as it was
Speaker 1: going out, I was like, I better call Amber and
Speaker 1: tell her that's how long I waited. And she cried
Speaker 1: and then she said, well, you better call your mom.
Speaker 1: Mom didn't know, and then Mom said you better call
Speaker 1: your brothers. No one knew about this, So it was
Speaker 1: not only writing it and thinking through it as I
Speaker 1: was writing it, but then telling the world about the
Speaker 1: most embarrassed seeing the most vulnerable moment in my life
Speaker 1: when I almost killed myself.
Speaker 2: So if people were to read the book and you
Speaker 2: didn't put that in, they wouldn't have known it wasn't in.
Speaker 2: They still would have felt, this is impactful book, this
Speaker 2: has taught me a lesson. They wouldn't have known that
Speaker 2: it was not in. Yet you put it in because
Speaker 2: to you, did it not feel like you were being
Speaker 2: or you were giving the honest version of your thoughts, feelings,
Speaker 2: emotions about what happened?
Speaker 1: Correct? That was that was the hinge. That was the
Speaker 1: pivot moment in my trying to fix myself, and then
Speaker 1: that was the pivot into surrender.
Speaker 2: I can't fix my Was that uh, dealing with the addiction?
Speaker 2: Was it? Was it a mental emotional like the bottom
Speaker 2: for you? Was that the bottom that made you just
Speaker 2: made you go. If I don't go up from here,
Speaker 2: it's going to be over over And that was it?
Speaker 1: If I don't know how to better define a bottom,
Speaker 1: but that's bottom as I've ever been.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why did you shoes not to commit suicide? Like
Speaker 2: what was in your head? They says, Okay, I need
Speaker 2: to fight this. It's more than an urge. This urge
Speaker 2: is not the correct word for it. But why why
Speaker 2: did you not do it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I want to say I want to tell you
Speaker 1: without sounding weird, because it kind of gets a little weird.
Speaker 1: But I'll just describe it the best I can. When
Speaker 1: I reached this in Boise, Idaho, we were playing back
Speaker 1: to back shows December of twenty nineteen. And you know
Speaker 1: when you play back to back shows, you don't travel
Speaker 1: in between, so there's kill a lot of time the
Speaker 1: bus isn't moving. I went with the band and had
Speaker 1: a few drinks way too many. Was feeling normal again.
Speaker 1: Went back to the bus six months after losing River,
Speaker 1: feeling okay, like feeling like a human being again. Went
Speaker 1: to my back lounge and saw like all my self
Speaker 1: help books, my little marijuana pin, all the little things
Speaker 1: that I had done to create a world to make
Speaker 1: me feel normal, instantly recognizing things aren't normal. Then I realized, well,
Speaker 1: this is probably the first time I've been drunk since
Speaker 1: I've been therapy. All this, I've put all these barriers
Speaker 1: in place to try to protect me from my slideshow,
Speaker 1: which is this PTSD idea of I would just see
Speaker 1: River in the pool, floating face down. I would pick
Speaker 1: him up. His face is purple, his eyes are open,
Speaker 1: just looking in all directions. His hair's messed up, his
Speaker 1: limbs are dangling like a rag doll. I'm doing CPR,
Speaker 1: wondering if I should press harder on his chest or
Speaker 1: if it might break his bones, and then thinking maybe
Speaker 1: that's the least of my worries right now, Like all
Speaker 1: these ideas. Then I see the doctor walk in. He
Speaker 1: tells me no chance. I hear those ambulances screaming down
Speaker 1: that quiet road. I see my son Lincoln's hand on
Speaker 1: his brother's lightning me Queen coffin his best friend's funeral.
Speaker 1: All these things were just haunting me, not just the
Speaker 1: grief of losing a child, but the shame and the
Speaker 1: guilt that I was there and failed. All of it
Speaker 1: was culminating that night, and Boise and I had the
Speaker 1: most vivid what I called the slide show, just panic attack,
Speaker 1: trying couldn't stop it. Hit that weed pin as hard
Speaker 1: as I could. I was already way too intoxicated, and
Speaker 1: realizing there was no hope, grabbed the nine milimeters pistol
Speaker 1: that we had in the drawer, put it in my mouth.
Speaker 1: And this is when it gets weird. I realized that
Speaker 1: I had I thought, a thought that my mind didn't generate.
Speaker 1: I knew it was a foreign thought, as if as
Speaker 1: if there was something else thinking for me or providing
Speaker 1: information to me. I think that's the best way I
Speaker 1: could describe it. In that moment, I realized I was
Speaker 1: not alone. Basically, something else was with me that night,
Speaker 1: and I heard in the thought was a voice that said,
Speaker 1: this is the way to rest, this is the way
Speaker 1: to peace. Just squeeze the trigger. And it was it
Speaker 1: was realizing that I was under attack the first time.
Speaker 1: It had never occurred to me in my whole life
Speaker 1: as a cultural, nominal religious person, had never occurred to
Speaker 1: me that there was an enemy that I'd been stalked
Speaker 1: and and it just about killed me that night.
Speaker 2: But to realize that there's an enemy at a time
Speaker 2: when you're realizing button isn't really working, that to separate,
Speaker 2: to be able to do and go, this is not
Speaker 2: me at a time and again it's a lot of
Speaker 2: irrational thoughts are happening, yeah, And to have the one
Speaker 2: rational thought, So.
Speaker 1: The one rational thought caused the next thing to happen.
Speaker 1: And that's when I said, Jesus, please, please save me,
Speaker 1: Please Jesus save that. Just it was like a knee jerk.
Speaker 1: It's like an old pulling back on the old Sunday
Speaker 1: School knee jerk reaction. But when I said it, the
Speaker 1: Slade show stopped. It's actually stopped. Everything stopped, that weird
Speaker 1: pain that the voice. There was just enough rest for
Speaker 1: me to drop the gun, to fold the floor, and
Speaker 1: I just cried myself asleep on the floor of the bus,
Speaker 1: saying please Jesus saved me. Because what changed was I
Speaker 1: went from shame and guilt and panic attack to all
Speaker 1: of a sudden fear of an enemy that I didn't
Speaker 1: even know.
Speaker 2: I was surrounded by the fact that you can have
Speaker 2: that rational thought in the midst of that storm of
Speaker 2: complete irrationality. To be able to not do it.
Speaker 1: Is the only reason I'm sitting in this chair right now.
Speaker 1: I would have been another statistic that you read on
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 2: I don't really read a lot of those statistics. Those
Speaker 2: stakes don't make me happy. But yeah, to me, that
Speaker 2: is that is just wild. That again, that is a
Speaker 2: time where you've obviously at the temporarily lost control, yet
Speaker 2: you still felt something still got There's still a bit
Speaker 2: of control that got through. That. Why it feels crazy
Speaker 2: is that usually in that situation, I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people don't have the opportunity to have or find
Speaker 2: the rational thought.
Speaker 1: I don't give myself credit for that because I know this, No,
Speaker 1: I don't either. I know the statistics, and I know
Speaker 1: it's rare.
Speaker 2: That you can even recognize the difference in the two
Speaker 2: That is so I, yeah to I would be extremely grateful,
Speaker 2: and you are, and that I think this is one
Speaker 2: of the ways that I think I could kind of
Speaker 2: that shouldn't happen. I don't know how you got a
Speaker 2: clear thought in your mind went at a very non
Speaker 2: clear thought time, and I do see almost I can
Speaker 2: feel why that would change fundation mentally, right, fundamentally the
Speaker 2: reason you do what you do.
Speaker 1: Right. You can't be the same person after a night like.
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, because I don't think you feel the same
Speaker 2: way because something new has something new has reached you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that has not reached you before. And again I'm gonna
Speaker 2: say this, I don't think you would ever wish that
Speaker 2: would happen to you in a million years. No, however,
Speaker 2: and I'm not even you can say I'm wrong. However,
Speaker 2: I bet there's a thankfulness to you that that happened.
Speaker 2: Because of all the things that's been able to happen
Speaker 2: since then, which again feels like the opposite of what
Speaker 2: should happen. You shouldn't be and you would never wish
Speaker 2: that on anybody to go through. But again, because that happened,
Speaker 2: you've been able to find fulfillment. It feels like general
Speaker 2: fulfillment in helping others. Would you am I somewhat right
Speaker 2: on that.
Speaker 1: I died that night. Spiritually I am not the same
Speaker 1: that that night marked a death for me. And you
Speaker 1: can't live the same when you're when you're a new
Speaker 1: person in that sense, spiritually, you can't go back, and
Speaker 1: you can't even want it back even that's why I
Speaker 1: don't even want that life back.
Speaker 2: I guess my point is that, and I'll move off
Speaker 2: this because you're also really funny, and I haven't even
Speaker 2: got to be funny with you because you're like super funny.
Speaker 2: It's like you're like one of the funniest guys. In
Speaker 2: the same way we talked about River and you said,
Speaker 2: if I could go back what I've gained and what
Speaker 2: I've lost, you can't compare the two. But the person
Speaker 2: I am now because that happened, I feel like you're
Speaker 2: now able to find fulfillment. Because that moment happened, at
Speaker 2: that terrible night, that moment with that gun where you
Speaker 2: almost killed yourself. You are able to find fulfillment now
Speaker 2: because that is the trigger that kind of started it
Speaker 2: all and you would never wish to anybody else. But
Speaker 2: without it, I don't know that you'd be here now.
Speaker 2: Do you think you'd be here now in the same way?
Speaker 1: Oh no, not even close. I'd be promoting a new single.
Speaker 2: So it's gonna say it's because it's not the same.
Speaker 2: It's like, are you thankful for that? It's not even
Speaker 2: the question. But without that, you wouldn't be here, but
Speaker 2: there's got to be an appreciation for what you've gained
Speaker 2: from it.
Speaker 1: So after that night, though I it wasn't that was
Speaker 1: the catalyst, But but then I was on a new
Speaker 1: mission to find out what actually happened it like, is
Speaker 1: there a practical is there what mechanism? It actually happened
Speaker 1: in my mind? And why did I drop the gun?
Speaker 1: So that that was a new mission and can you
Speaker 1: activate it again? Can you get back to it, and
Speaker 1: can you get back to it more? And can you
Speaker 1: use that to that that's what came. That became the
Speaker 1: new journey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, maybe that that's the new goal. That's what
Speaker 2: it feels like to me.
Speaker 1: And so through that, through unpacking that is then what
Speaker 1: I was able to take that and go out to
Speaker 1: other people and have these conversations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've lived the life of many and it's really
Speaker 2: cool that you're taking that and and helping because I
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know, I don't know that I
Speaker 2: would do that if I just try to do this,
Speaker 2: build another house. You know.
Speaker 1: That goes back to our conversation about being stubborn, because
Speaker 1: I too, am very stubborn and I can't there's no
Speaker 1: way I could sit in your shoes and look at
Speaker 1: somebody in my shoes and go, I don't know if
Speaker 1: I could do it, because the answer is you don't
Speaker 1: know if you can. But when it comes down to it,
Speaker 1: if you're broken enough, you will.
Speaker 2: How's the radio stuff going?
Speaker 1: You know? I like it? I like it a lot.
Speaker 2: Do you like it more or less than you did
Speaker 2: three months after you started, when the honeymoon was finally over.
Speaker 1: I like it more now, Yeah, with more understanding of
Speaker 1: what we're doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about that to you? I hate to keep
Speaker 2: yousing the same more, but what fulfills you about doing
Speaker 2: the radio show now?
Speaker 1: So, going kind of along the same lines as what
Speaker 1: we've been talking about, I'm speaking to people in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night, and it's really one on one.
Speaker 1: I get to talk to people, and I imagine a
Speaker 1: dude with the zeer buds in stocking the shelves some
Speaker 1: grocery store, making the delivery for Amazon, and he's alone
Speaker 1: and maybe having some of these thoughts, maybe on the
Speaker 1: verge of some of the things that I've been through.
Speaker 1: And then there I am speaking to him and it's sporadic.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of music in other conversations,
Speaker 1: But there are moments when I could actually have a
Speaker 1: normal conversation with someone, not in up a robotic way,
Speaker 1: not in a you know, some kind of like you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just reading out of a cookie cutter, and you feel.
Speaker 2: That, yeah, it's your show. You wouldn't read out of
Speaker 2: a cookie cutter. They may I think everybody knew this
Speaker 2: about you when you started. They may go, here's what
Speaker 2: we're gonna do this cookie Cutter at the beginning, so
Speaker 2: you can kind of get your bearings and under you.
Speaker 2: You're not cookie cutter, and anything you've ever done, I
Speaker 2: don't think no one thought you were really cook cutter.
Speaker 2: And I think people in this world are actually quite
Speaker 2: impressed with what you've been able to do with that.
Speaker 2: And also I think what you're about to do even
Speaker 2: more inside of that world, Like it's just like untapped
Speaker 2: in this area for what you want to do. It's
Speaker 2: crazy to see how like naturally, I don't want to
Speaker 2: say talented, because yeah, you get it's hard. It's a
Speaker 2: lot of hard work, and you have grown in other areas,
Speaker 2: but like you're real good, and good means that you
Speaker 2: can do whatever you want it's crazy to see how
Speaker 2: much you have understood what needs to be done but
Speaker 2: then figured out ways to do it differently and still connect. Like,
Speaker 2: given some of the stuff that you're thinking about thinking
Speaker 2: about doing, I hear about right like they're like, I'm like,
Speaker 2: that's such a freaking good idea. Then it's inspiring to
Speaker 2: me who's been like I'm seven hundred years old in
Speaker 2: this business. Yeah, So I hope you're enjoying it because
Speaker 2: you're really good at it, making a difference in a
Speaker 2: way that really no one has, and connecting in a
Speaker 2: way that no one has because you're just being you.
Speaker 2: And the only way we have to connect individually is
Speaker 2: by being ourselves because really only us there is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I appreciate that encouragement, and I have to
Speaker 1: always remind myself but if it's just today, today's enough.
Speaker 1: If I could keep that, and you have to fight
Speaker 1: for that, you have to dig for that kind of
Speaker 1: mentality of I'm content today. If today, if today's all
Speaker 1: I got, then that's enough. And there's all these great ideas,
Speaker 1: and like I said, we responsibly plan and prepare for
Speaker 1: great ideas and we dream about them. But if it
Speaker 1: was only today, would that be enough, and I have
Speaker 1: to say, yes, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: Because I don't say that. I mean, like, fifty more years, man,
Speaker 2: one hundred more years, and then it won't be enough either.
Speaker 2: But hopefully one hundred years I'll find the enough but
Speaker 2: I haven't yet.
Speaker 1: So are you to kind of go with like if
Speaker 1: you could figure out how to freeze yourself and then
Speaker 1: oh for sure restall? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's you.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I have those thoughts all the time. We quick
Speaker 2: we talked about the book before you got here, like
Speaker 2: the in the promba. But don't tell me, tell me
Speaker 2: about Up Toward the Light. Give me your version of
Speaker 2: why you did it the difference because I've written a
Speaker 2: kids book too, and I actually know the difference. For me,
Speaker 2: it was I just there are words I used in
Speaker 2: my kids book. I don't even really know that text.
Speaker 2: You know, it's telling a message differently you have kids,
Speaker 2: I didn't. I did it because I selfishly I wrote
Speaker 2: a kid's book, donated all the money. But I did
Speaker 2: it because I wanted a kid to get a book
Speaker 2: with the message of it's okay to be different. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: why why up Towards What was the message here in
Speaker 2: this book?
Speaker 1: Well? It's it's a true story, not the kid version
Speaker 1: of it, but the the adult version was what I
Speaker 1: went through therapy with. And I remember my therapist this
Speaker 1: is way before the Dark Knight and Boise, and it
Speaker 1: was part of the reason I got I lost my
Speaker 1: mind in boys because I thought I had worked so
Speaker 1: hard in therapy. But he said, at one point, therapist,
Speaker 1: he said, what do you want to be for your family?
Speaker 1: Who do you see yourself? How do you see yourself
Speaker 1: in relation to your family? And I said, I want
Speaker 1: to be a rock. You know It's like that's the reaction.
Speaker 1: I want to be a rock, you know that everyone
Speaker 1: could lean on me. And he said, and who does
Speaker 1: the rock lean on? I was like yeah, And he goes,
Speaker 1: let me encourage you to think of yourself maybe as
Speaker 1: a tree, because then you could bend. You have strength,
Speaker 1: and you're strong and you have roots, but you could
Speaker 1: also lose limbs and lose leaves and could be more flexible.
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, I like that. So he goes,
Speaker 1: my challenge to you, I want you to go outside.
Speaker 1: This is it on site and you're in Tennessee.
Speaker 2: I went to one too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he said, go out in the woods, and
Speaker 1: I want you to have a conversation with a tree
Speaker 1: and write it down and see what you learn. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's kind of weird. But I went out in the
Speaker 1: woods and I probably sat for like forty five minutes
Speaker 1: before I knew anything. I found a tree first of all,
Speaker 1: just like a normal, average tree that I could relate to.
Speaker 1: And then I sat there with a pin and pad,
Speaker 1: and eventually I was like, okay, high tree, I'm granger.
Speaker 1: It's like high Granger.
Speaker 6: Probably felt pretty goofy at first. Yeah, I had to
Speaker 6: talk to a chair. Okay, okay, good, Yeah, so you
Speaker 6: could relate to this and so. But what I ended
Speaker 6: up realizing through that conversation with this tree was that
Speaker 6: that we we have a tendency to folk on everything
Speaker 6: that's providing nourishment down here.
Speaker 1: You know, roots, the soil. We can lose, our leaves,
Speaker 1: we can shed our branches. That's great. But if we
Speaker 1: only focus on that, just a nourishment the people surrounding us,
Speaker 1: that you know, everything we've built down here, we lose
Speaker 1: the ability to grow up toward the light, which is
Speaker 1: the only way to really grow. The only direction a
Speaker 1: tree grows is up. But if we only focus on
Speaker 1: what's below people. We've lost, people, we've learned from things
Speaker 1: that we've built. We totally lose that perspective.
Speaker 2: When you said, what is the rock lane on my
Speaker 2: unhealthy answer would have been on a rock, I don't
Speaker 2: need a lean I'm strong enough on myself.
Speaker 1: True right, Yeah, I feel you.
Speaker 2: That would have been what I would have said, And
Speaker 2: then I would have been I wouldn't even need it
Speaker 2: for him to say it back. I would have been like,
Speaker 2: that is not what the answer should be for a
Speaker 2: healthy person of me. Yeah, but that would have been
Speaker 2: my visceral. It was like from a rock, what do
Speaker 2: I need? Yeah, I don't need anything. I'm the one.
Speaker 2: I don't need anything and I don't have to. Uh yeah,
Speaker 2: that's why I go to therapy twice a week. Well,
Speaker 2: we go and then I go, Look, i'd be here
Speaker 2: all day. I'm proud for you. I'm not proud of
Speaker 2: because I feel like you're much to me. I like
Speaker 2: I look to I look up to you in a
Speaker 2: lot of ways. I'm really proud for you that you've
Speaker 2: been able to in this version, in this season say
Speaker 2: the things you say, like I'm good basically that's that's
Speaker 2: that is inspiring to me. So I don't know, man,
Speaker 2: just keep on doing that because I listen, I watch
Speaker 2: what you're doing, watch what you're saying, Like even professionally,
Speaker 2: you know, we're we work together in a way, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's really cool to see what you're doing there
Speaker 2: in the in that world and you're able to do
Speaker 2: it from home and be it's awesome. So continued success,
Speaker 2: I don't need to say that because you're just going
Speaker 2: to have it and you're gonna be stubborn about having
Speaker 2: it wherever it is, and that success is here fulfillment
Speaker 2: and that's awesome. We you know the books, we'll put
Speaker 2: in the notes too, and I appreciate you just sitting
Speaker 2: and talking with them and never I didn't really plan
Speaker 2: for it to go like this. So that's what's great
Speaker 2: about talking with somebody that you trust, is it can
Speaker 2: just go wherever.
Speaker 1: So cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's it. Grantual, appreciate you, buddy.
Speaker 1: Thanks man, all right
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production