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Speaker 1: Reveals as a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and

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Speaker 1: feuds and long simmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan. And today we're gonna answer that age old question,

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Speaker 1: which one's pink Yeah? And what is a real rock band?

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Speaker 1: Is a band defined by who's in the band? Or

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Speaker 1: is it merely a front for an amazing light show

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Speaker 1: and pigs floating around in the sky and and all

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Speaker 1: of the many beautiful iconography that we associate with the

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Speaker 1: band Pink Floyd. We're gonna be talking about Roger Waters

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Speaker 1: versus David Gilmore in this episode, and I feel like

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Speaker 1: this is like the Ali Frasier of intra band feuds.

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Speaker 1: It's the struggle for control of just an absolutely gargantuan

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Speaker 1: artistic legacy. The money at Steak is truly insane, and

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Speaker 1: the public feuding has gone on for like forty years

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Speaker 1: with no apparent end in sight. I think, for me,

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Speaker 1: like why I am so fascinated by this rivalry and

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Speaker 1: this really is like one of my favorite rivalries is

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Speaker 1: that I feel like Roger Waters and David Gilmore complete

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Speaker 1: each other artistically, I think more than any partnership that

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Speaker 1: I can think of, Like, you look at what each

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Speaker 1: guy does well and what their weaknesses are. You just

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Speaker 1: see how well they compliment each other in that regard,

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Speaker 1: and at their peak, I think the results speak for themselves.

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Speaker 1: Pink Floyd is one of the greatest and most successful

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Speaker 1: bands of all time, and when they split, their weaknesses

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Speaker 1: are just glaringly obvious. And uh, we're really going to

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Speaker 1: dip into that in this episode. And there's disparity between

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Speaker 1: how much I love Pink Floyd at their height versus

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Speaker 1: how much I don't really like their solo album is

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Speaker 1: pretty extreme. Well, without further ado, let's get into this mess.

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Speaker 1: I think they understand the feud between Roger Waters and

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Speaker 1: David Gilmore. It helps to understand how Dave entered the

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Speaker 1: band in the first place. Take it back to the

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Speaker 1: mid sixties and the pre Gilmore era when the band

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Speaker 1: was led by syd Barrett, Roger's childhood friend. Uh. Po

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Speaker 1: Floyd started off as like an R and B group,

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Speaker 1: kind of like adjacent to the Rolling Stones. Their name

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Speaker 1: was famously taken from two blues men, Pink Anderson and

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Speaker 1: Floyd Counsel, and they were kind of a lazy band

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Speaker 1: when you think about it. Instead of learning new songs,

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Speaker 1: they just would stretch the ones they knew into like

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Speaker 1: these huge, long, ten fifteen minute versions, and instead of practicing,

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Speaker 1: they said, you know what, we're just gonna like improvise

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Speaker 1: on stage and see what happens, which you know, for

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Speaker 1: a lot of bands it doesn't really work out. But

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Speaker 1: for Pink Floyd that went really well. They kind of became,

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Speaker 1: i'd say, like the unofficial band of the London underground scene.

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Speaker 1: They were playing like really hip clubs like the UFO

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Speaker 1: Club and Middle Earth and the Roundhouse. It's funny though

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Speaker 1: they sound didn't really play that well outside of all

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Speaker 1: these hip clubs. They tried to play a i think

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Speaker 1: a Catholic youth club and the owner refused to pay

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Speaker 1: them because he said what they had done was not mused.

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Speaker 1: Did they serve LSD at that kind of the fee club?

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Speaker 1: I think that would have helped in the hot Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that you're right, and that the early Pink

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Speaker 1: Floyd was defined by this sort of jammy aesthetic that

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Speaker 1: was also taking hold in America, obviously on the West Coast,

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Speaker 1: with bands like The Great Bildad and Jefferson Airplane. It's

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Speaker 1: really fascinating to see like how those two scenes developed

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Speaker 1: in parallel to each other at that time. But Sid

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Speaker 1: Barrett did develop into a really great pop songwriter. Around

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Speaker 1: sixty sixty seven, Pink Floyd starts putting out singles like

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Speaker 1: c Emily Play and Arnold Lane, and of course they

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Speaker 1: put out their classic debut album, The Piper at the

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Speaker 1: Gates of Down in n seven, and you can really

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Speaker 1: see that Sid Barrett is a writer for his times,

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Speaker 1: like he's writing these songs at the same time that

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Speaker 1: the Beatles are starting to turn psychedelic with Revolver and

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Speaker 1: then going full blossom with Sergeant Pepper, and Barrett can

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Speaker 1: really right in that same sort of style that John

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Speaker 1: Lennon was writing at the time, this style that on

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Speaker 1: one hand is very druggy and psychedelic, and that on

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Speaker 1: the other hand it has a real pop sense, and

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Speaker 1: those songs are really catchy um and it looks like

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Speaker 1: Pink Floyd, as weird as their roots were, they were

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Speaker 1: going to become a genuine sort of pop sensation. The problem, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: is that said Barrett uh ends up having a serious

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Speaker 1: mental breakdown, and it's a combination of mental illness. It's

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Speaker 1: him basically eating LSD for breakfast at this time, you know,

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Speaker 1: which does not help his mental state. And he's also

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Speaker 1: just reluctant to be a pop star. He doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to fit into that sort of tight formulaic thing, and

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Speaker 1: it all leads to him slowly leaving the band. I mean,

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Speaker 1: is it fair to say that he was fired? I

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Speaker 1: feel like it was one of those things like where

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Speaker 1: they couldn't bring themselves to tell him to go. They

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Speaker 1: had to sort of let him the evolved on his

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Speaker 1: own and then move forward as he kind of receded

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Speaker 1: into a corner. I think it was a mix. I

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Speaker 1: think it was a mix of of terror because he

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Speaker 1: was their primary songwriter and lead singer and guitarist, and

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Speaker 1: also just sadness. They saw what was happening with their

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Speaker 1: friend and they were trying to help him. I think

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Speaker 1: Roger Waters brought him to a very famous psychologist, Dr. R. D.

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Speaker 1: Laying I think his name was, and tried to get

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Speaker 1: him some help and and just Sid wouldn't go in.

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Speaker 1: It just was a case of them not wanting to

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Speaker 1: turn their back on their friend. But I got to

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Speaker 1: a point where he was just a liability. They would

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Speaker 1: be on TV shows and try to mind their song

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Speaker 1: and he would just would stand there, not move his mouth,

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Speaker 1: not move his arms. He gon't be on stage and

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Speaker 1: he just would de tune his guitar. And all the

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Speaker 1: stories of his you know, eccentric behavior has gone into

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Speaker 1: legend and I want to glamorize that too much, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it became a point where they knew he was unwell,

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Speaker 1: but just having him around was a giant liability. So

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Speaker 1: they brought in David Gilmore, who was another musician on

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Speaker 1: the scene who was also a friend of Barretts. I

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Speaker 1: think they've gone hitch high together as teenagers, and the

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Speaker 1: idea was almost like a Beach Boys situation. David would

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Speaker 1: be the Bruce Johnston and would would would go on

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Speaker 1: stage and can kind of cover for Sid on stage,

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Speaker 1: where Sid would kind of remain at home, performed when

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Speaker 1: he wanted to write the songs, do what he wanted

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Speaker 1: to in the studio, and still be creative force. So

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Speaker 1: there was a brief period of a couple of months

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Speaker 1: when they played as a five piece band. I don't

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Speaker 1: even think it was a couple of months. I think

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Speaker 1: it might have been weeks and things just got worse

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Speaker 1: for Sid. I think that he felt on some level

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Speaker 1: resentful that he was being edged out. Or there's the

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Speaker 1: song that he wrote for the band's second album. So

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Speaker 1: as for all the secrets called jug Band Blues, and

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Speaker 1: I always thought it was about how Sid felt about this.

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Speaker 1: It's awfully considerate for you to think of me here,

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Speaker 1: and I'm much obliged to you for making it clear

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Speaker 1: that I'm not here. Oh, it's really sad. So one

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Speaker 1: day they were going to drive to they were driving

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Speaker 1: to a show and they had to pick up Sid

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Speaker 1: and they're all in the van and they just said, well,

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Speaker 1: should we just not get him today? And they all said, okay,

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Speaker 1: let's just not get him today. So it just this

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Speaker 1: very very gentle parting of the ways. I would have

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Speaker 1: to say, because they stayed close. I think David and

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Speaker 1: Roger both helped with Sid solo albums, So as friends

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Speaker 1: they were close, but as a band by they were

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Speaker 1: done together. It's fascinating though, with Pink Floyd, that while

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Speaker 1: Sid Barrett ceased to be, you know, an active participant

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Speaker 1: in the band early on, that his spirit ends up

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Speaker 1: being a part of Pink Floyd throughout their most successful periods.

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Speaker 1: Like it seems like the spirit of of Barrett and

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Speaker 1: what happened to him, just the ark of his story,

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Speaker 1: it ends up being a major thematic concern for for

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Speaker 1: Pink Floyd, you know, through Dark Side of the Moon,

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Speaker 1: I Wish You Were Here, and certainly The Wall. I

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Speaker 1: think those three are in their own ways commentaries on

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Speaker 1: like how the band felt about Sid Barrett and how

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Speaker 1: they were haunted by I think, leaving him behind, and

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Speaker 1: also just his mental state and how he deteriorated, because

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Speaker 1: he was this very charismatic, good looking, talented guy who

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Speaker 1: ended up, you know, just becoming this recluse, very troubled

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Speaker 1: individual and really like one of the great sort of

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Speaker 1: like loner genius legends that exist in rock history. And

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Speaker 1: I always got the impression too that Roger kind of

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Speaker 1: blamed the pop industry machine that he then would just

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Speaker 1: vent about on so many of his future albums, both

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Speaker 1: with Pink Floyd and solo. Yeah, And I think that that,

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Speaker 1: like you said, it was there was an element of

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Speaker 1: almost them fearing that what happened to Sid could happen

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Speaker 1: to them, was by you know, by grace of God.

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Speaker 1: Go I uh yeah, I think that fueled a lot

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Speaker 1: of Roger's future resentment too. It's also fascinating to sort

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Speaker 1: of wonder what would have happened if Sid had stayed

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Speaker 1: with the group, if they would have continued to mature

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Speaker 1: artistically and pursue the kind of concept stuff, and Roger

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Speaker 1: would have maybe taken on a role as as more

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Speaker 1: of a dominant creative force, or if they would have

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Speaker 1: kind of been relegated to like a sixties psychedelic curio

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Speaker 1: like The Soft Machine and the Pretty Things, which are

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of our cult bands. Now. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: I tend to believe the latter. I think that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I act she really liked the Sid Barrett solo records. Um, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I think that's a great record. But there's

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Speaker 1: nothing on those records that suggests to me that he

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Speaker 1: would have led Pink Floyd to the kind of success

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Speaker 1: that they had without him. I think that bringing in

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Speaker 1: David Gilmore, who was this uh, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: it's a fantastic guitars He's one of my favorite guitarists ever.

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Speaker 1: But just what he was eventually able to bring to

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Speaker 1: Roger Waters lyrics, it was just the perfect combination for

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Speaker 1: what rock music became in the seventies, which was this

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Speaker 1: more sort of stadium rock thing where you know, it

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Speaker 1: was very sort of bombastic, grandiose music married to very

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Speaker 1: thoughtful theatrical concepts, and Roger and David just fit perfectly

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Speaker 1: in that regard and what they were able to do.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it is interesting listening to that middle period.

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Speaker 1: It's not really the middle period. I kind of think

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Speaker 1: of it as the middle period for for Pink Floyd,

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Speaker 1: even though it's relatively earlier in their career. But you know,

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Speaker 1: you have that Sid Barrett era, uh you know, Piper

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Speaker 1: at the Gates of Dawn and the early singles, and

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Speaker 1: then you have Dark Side of the Moon and like

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Speaker 1: just that hugely successful stadium rock run that they had

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Speaker 1: in the seventies. But before that, like between those those

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Speaker 1: two eras, you have these records like where pinkfull is

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Speaker 1: really trying to figure out what they're gonna do. And

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Speaker 1: you know, as we said said, Barrett was this guy

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Speaker 1: who wrote very tuneful songs that could be stretched out

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Speaker 1: into jams but could also be played at three minutes

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Speaker 1: in length and totally work just as just as pop singles.

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Speaker 1: But really, you know, that run from Exhauster Full of

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Speaker 1: Secrets to Metal. It's like they're really trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out songwriting, and you could tell it they didn't really

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Speaker 1: know how to write songs like for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Like there's some really good songs on those records, but

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Speaker 1: for the most part, you know, they're working in more

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Speaker 1: of like sort of a soundscape type realm, you know,

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Speaker 1: like where they're going off into the stratosphere, writing these

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Speaker 1: sort of space rock jams, but they're not really wedded

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Speaker 1: to end anything substantial. And as much as I like

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Speaker 1: those records, there's a little bit of hollowness to them,

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Speaker 1: like there's not a whole lot you can grab onto,

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Speaker 1: uh lyrically, I mean, I think with metal, I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of pink Floid fans look at that as

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Speaker 1: the turning point, and especially the song echoes that pointing

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Speaker 1: towards like what they were able to do on Our

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Speaker 1: Dark Side of the Moon. But I feel like what

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Speaker 1: sets Dark Side of the Moon apart from those albums,

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Speaker 1: Apart from like the musical brilliance of that record. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it sounds amazing, that is a record where, uh it

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Speaker 1: is great head music, but there's also like a lot

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Speaker 1: of catchy songs on that record, like like money and

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Speaker 1: Time and Us and them that you know work on

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Speaker 1: the radio as as standalone songs. But I feel like

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Speaker 1: Roger waters development as a writer is what sets that

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Speaker 1: album apart and what gives that album a depth that

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Speaker 1: the other albums don't have, like because there's thematic things

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Speaker 1: that you can latch onto with that record, and it

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Speaker 1: just makes it feel d bur uh than those other records.

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Speaker 1: And especially I feel like if you're an alienated teenager,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think those that record especially speaks to you.

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Speaker 1: It's it's why it's remained to be, you know, such

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Speaker 1: a popular record. Yeah, to your point earlier about sort

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Speaker 1: of the the earlier pre dark side albums where they're

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Speaker 1: finding their way. I mean a lot of those albums

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Speaker 1: they almost started with a concept like Omagma was every

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Speaker 1: bandmate was gonna get one. This was a double album

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Speaker 1: I think, where every bandmate was going to get like

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Speaker 1: one track to right. It almost felt like they knew

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Speaker 1: they needed to make an album, but they instead of

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Speaker 1: just letting the songs dictate where it was going to go,

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Speaker 1: they kind of said okay, and they were gonna record

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Speaker 1: an album that was all made from household appliances, which

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Speaker 1: is like, you know, totally insane idea, but they actually

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Speaker 1: had some songs that are I think we're released as

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Speaker 1: like bonus tracks later. So yeah, I felt that around

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Speaker 1: Metal and definitely Dark Side was when they actually focused

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Speaker 1: on really making the songs and and in a melodic sense.

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Speaker 1: I feel like Roger uh brought, as you said, a concept,

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Speaker 1: but David really was contributing more and more at this

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Speaker 1: point of the musical side, which you really hadn't in

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Speaker 1: the higher pre metal era. He had to be like

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Speaker 1: forced to write songs for the albums where they wanted

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Speaker 1: each band mate to like take a song. He really

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Speaker 1: wasn't all that comfortable with doing it. But yeah, that

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Speaker 1: marriage of Roger's concepts with with David's melodic sense for

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Speaker 1: Dark Side, I think really just just is what made

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Speaker 1: it what it was. But the success and and also

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Speaker 1: like I mean what you're saying about like mc gumma,

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Speaker 1: you know, the idea, I think in a way they

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Speaker 1: almost like tried to be more of a band early

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Speaker 1: on in that era where they were spreading out songs

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Speaker 1: with all the songwriters and really with Metal, you could

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Speaker 1: start to hear that like Waters and Gilmore are starting

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Speaker 1: to take the reins because they are the real composers

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Speaker 1: in that band, and with Dark Side, it really takes

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Speaker 1: hold that, like Roger Waters is like the tour of

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Speaker 1: Pink Floyd, and that's going to become a problem, I

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Speaker 1: think for the other guys in the band pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: And you can also see that artistically that was that

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Speaker 1: was really paying off, like and it seems in retrospect

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Speaker 1: inevitable that that was going to happen because the other

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Speaker 1: guys were not They were not songwriters to the same level.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Rick Wright made some great contributions, but he

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Speaker 1: wasn't as prolific. I always thought Rick Right was the

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Speaker 1: unsung here. I love all of his piano work on

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Speaker 1: Us and Them and in The Great Gig and the Sky.

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Speaker 1: His stuff actually tends to be my favorite part of

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Speaker 1: Pink Floyd. But but you're right, I mean Roger from

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Speaker 1: Dark Side definitely onward took on a greater and greater

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Speaker 1: and greater role. And I always thought it was funny

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Speaker 1: that the cover of Dark Side of the Moon is uh,

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Speaker 1: white light going through a prism and then becoming diffuse,

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Speaker 1: representing sort of the lack of unity, which is pretty

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Speaker 1: much what happened after Dark Side of the Moon was released. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I think that the absolutely enormous success of the album

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Speaker 1: took the wind out of the sales in a way

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Speaker 1: because I think they took a look around and realize

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Speaker 1: what we got, what we want? We realized we don't

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Speaker 1: we actually like each other that much. I think Roger

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Speaker 1: and David later said that they were more like work

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Speaker 1: acquaintances rather than like blood brother old friends like Roger

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Speaker 1: and Sid had been old childhood friends, but Roger and

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Speaker 1: David not so much. And once they achieved what they

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Speaker 1: set out to do, I think it became harder to

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Speaker 1: tolerate each other and each other's eccentricities and each other's egos.

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Speaker 1: More so, I think the success, as you know, seeing

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Speaker 1: so many bands is what started the decline to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a great quote from the Classic album's documentary about

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Speaker 1: Dark Side of the Moon where Roger Waters says that

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Speaker 1: when we were making Dark Side, we had a common goal,

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Speaker 1: which was to be rich and famous, and we you know,

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Speaker 1: once we achieved that goal, you know, there was nothing

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Speaker 1: left holding us together. And when you get to wish

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Speaker 1: you were here, the cracks really start to come into

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Speaker 1: play there, and I think at that time it was

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Speaker 1: pretty clear that that Waters was going to be the

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Speaker 1: dominant person in the band, with Gilmore making you know,

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Speaker 1: vital musical contributions. But you know, like you said before,

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Speaker 1: like Rick Wright was a big part I think of

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Speaker 1: certainly Metal and and Dark Side of the Moon, and

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Speaker 1: I think you could point to some of the earlier

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Speaker 1: records as well, like where he was really making his

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Speaker 1: presence felt and he really starts to faded with the background.

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Speaker 1: I Wish You were here, um right, I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 1: isn't that I mean, I guess you could say Dark

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Speaker 1: Side of the Moon was the beginning of the end.

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Speaker 1: But it seems like Wish You Were Here as brilliant

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Speaker 1: as that record is, um, I mean, it really came

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Speaker 1: out of a time like where they were not very happy.

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Speaker 1: They were, as you said, in this sort of post

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Speaker 1: dark Side funk, I'm not sure what to do and

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Speaker 1: they were able to pull it together. But it seems

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Speaker 1: like that record then going into Animals, Uh, just the

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Speaker 1: collaboration that they had as a band on Dark Side

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Speaker 1: had totally broke broken down over the course of those

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Speaker 1: two records. Yeah, I mean, I Wish You Were Here

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Speaker 1: was This was like the first major musical disagreement where

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Speaker 1: I think David wanted um Sewn an Crazy Diamond to

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Speaker 1: be one piece and Roger wanted it to sort of

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Speaker 1: bookend the album and have half a cigar I'm up

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Speaker 1: machine sort of in the middle between the two and

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Speaker 1: uh And that was a huge sticking point for the

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Speaker 1: two of them. And also Rick was dealing with h

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Speaker 1: I think he's starting to deal with cocaine addiction at

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Speaker 1: that time, and I think Nick Mason's marriage was failing

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Speaker 1: around him. Was a bad time personally for the band,

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Speaker 1: and Roger would later call the sessions for Wish You

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Speaker 1: Were Here torturous, and I got to say that he's

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Speaker 1: right about shiny. I think splitting up that song was

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Speaker 1: the right way to go. Yeah, yeah, I like that

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Speaker 1: as the book into that record. We're gonna take a

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Speaker 1: quick break and get a word from our sponsor before

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Speaker 1: we get two more rivals. I think Roger Waters is

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Speaker 1: like one of the great conceptualists in rock history, you know,

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Speaker 1: someone who I think made the best concept records and

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Speaker 1: also was able to bring that to the stage and

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Speaker 1: communicate it to an audience in a really fascinating way.

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Speaker 1: I think ultimately, like Pink Floyd ended up making stadium

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Speaker 1: rock about stadium rock, you know, and that certainly comes

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Speaker 1: into play once you get into Animals, Territory and the Wall. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: I never liked Animals much. I always thought that was

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Speaker 1: the moment when Rogers sort of political side took precedence

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Speaker 1: over melody. And I don't know, maybe that's just me.

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Speaker 1: I never got ano Animals very much. See Animals to

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Speaker 1: me is another example of Roger Waters and David Gilmore

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Speaker 1: fusing together beautifully. Because you're right, that is one of

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Speaker 1: the bleakest records that Pink Floyd ever made, which is

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Speaker 1: saying a lot. I mean, I mean Animals. Animals starts

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Speaker 1: a trilogy of albums where they just get bleaker and

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Speaker 1: bleaker as they go along, you know, from Animals to

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Speaker 1: the Wall to the final cut. Um. But David Gilmore's

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Speaker 1: guitar playing on Animals is beautiful. He plays so many

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Speaker 1: long guitar solos on that wreck heard uh And as

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Speaker 1: much as I appreciate the lyrics on that record, I

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Speaker 1: mean I am so drawn to David Gilmore's guitar playing,

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Speaker 1: you know, that really is like one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: showcases for that uh you know that record in particular,

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Speaker 1: and it just seems like as the seventies go on that,

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Speaker 1: you know, Nick Mason's because Nick Mason was also like

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Speaker 1: a pretty kick ass drummer early on, like he would

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Speaker 1: he played like wild Phils, he was much more boisterous.

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Speaker 1: His drumming becomes much more restrained where it almost sounds

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Speaker 1: like anyone could be doing it. And like Rick writes,

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Speaker 1: keyboard playing also just kind of falls back and it

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Speaker 1: really becomes about Roger Waters lyrics and David Gilmore's vocals

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Speaker 1: and guitar. Like it really seems like that is what

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Speaker 1: the evolution of Pink Floyd was as the seventies went

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Speaker 1: on and David got more and more piste off. Because

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Speaker 1: I think Animals is a good example, was that all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, the song royalties thing became an issue where, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know Dogs, It was mostly David's song took up

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Speaker 1: almost the entire side of the first side of the album,

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Speaker 1: but he received a fewer songwriting royalties because Roger had

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Speaker 1: you know, the two part pigs on a Wing and

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Speaker 1: things like that. So they were starting to squabble about

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Speaker 1: like the songwriting royalties too, and who got what kind

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Speaker 1: of space on the album and even if a song

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Speaker 1: took up a whole album, you know, it's still technically

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Speaker 1: one song too. So that started to come on the

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Speaker 1: play too, which is, you know, if you've got musical

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Speaker 1: differences already, you don't want to start squabbling up money too. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's the musical differences, there's the money squabbling. I think

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Speaker 1: philosophically to David Gilmore, I think found Roger waters pessimism oppressive,

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Speaker 1: you know, like he's not as negative about the music

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Speaker 1: industry and about the world in general as Roger Waters is. Famously,

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Speaker 1: there's that story from I Wish You Were Here period

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Speaker 1: where he didn't want to sing on and have a

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Speaker 1: cigar because he thought the lyrics like we're beyond the pale.

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Speaker 1: So they got Roy Harper to sing it instead. Um,

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Speaker 1: and that's a eight song. I mean, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: amazing that Roy Harper sounds a lot like David Gilmore

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Speaker 1: on that song, Like I didn't know that that wasn't

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Speaker 1: him singing, like, but it's what a wild thing. It's like,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get somebody outside of the band to sing

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Speaker 1: this song because I don't want to sing it. I

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Speaker 1: just think that's such that speaks to and I never

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Speaker 1: really saw and thought about that for a while. I

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Speaker 1: don't want a wild divergence. That period must have been

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Speaker 1: right where Roger, Yeah, Roger, you'd feel like if this

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Speaker 1: were a band where there was maybe more communication going

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Speaker 1: on that Roger Waters would have said like, well, I

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Speaker 1: respect your opinion here, maybe we just won't put the

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Speaker 1: song on the record. But but his thought was, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll just get somebody else then, because you know, I

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Speaker 1: like the song. We're gonna do it just how we

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Speaker 1: felt about Pink Floyd. I mean, we'll just get we

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Speaker 1: can get somebody else to make my songs. This is

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Speaker 1: I am Pink Floyd. These are my songs, this is

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Speaker 1: my vision. And you know, I mean later on we

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Speaker 1: talked about his solo career too. He's talking about, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: when the pros and cons of Hitchhiking Tour was is

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Speaker 1: a Pink Floyd show. But instead of Nick Mason on drums,

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Speaker 1: need Newmark and instead of like you know, David Gilmore

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Speaker 1: and guitar, we've got Eric Clapton. And yeah, it's crazy

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Speaker 1: that he just thinks he could just swap out people interchangeably,

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Speaker 1: which gets back to the question of what is a

431
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: band well, and I feel like that really starts to

432
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: come into the four with the Wall, because that's a

433
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: record where it really is Waters and Gilmore taking the

434
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 1: lead on that record, and like, I mean, I think

435
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 1: Nick Mason plays on it, but like he got on

436
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 1: every song, not much. Rick Wright is on that right,

437
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: Rick Rights not even credited on that record. Um, you

438
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: know it really was Pink Floyd as you know, Waters

439
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: and Gilmore with that record. Of course, you know we

440
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: talked about the negativity that Roger Waters had about rock

441
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: stardom at that time. You know, there's that famous story

442
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: from the Animals tour where I think it was the

443
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,360
Speaker 1: last show, uh, and it was like this massive stadium

444
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: tour and Roger Waters just felt more and more disenchanted

445
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 1: as the tour went on. There's a story about him

446
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: like out in the number of like how many shows

447
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: were left from the stage, Like he would yell like

448
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: he would yell eight, and people like what does eight mean?

449
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: And like he was literally counting the shows until that

450
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: tour was over. But there was this story about that

451
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: he would tell later about how there was a fan

452
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: in the front row screaming at him and like just

453
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: really excited, and Roger Waters leaned forward and spit in

454
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: the guy's face, like this is like a huge pink

455
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: Floyd fan. Roger Waters spit at him in the face. Unfortunately,

456
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: you know, Roger Waters understood that this was not a

457
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: nice thing to do, and it got him thinking about

458
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 1: a music piece that explored how rock concerts can be

459
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: equated to fascism, you know, which is a crazy idea,

460
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: but like it's also like a brilliant idea. Uh again,

461
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: like that idea of like making a stadium rock record

462
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: about stadium rock, uh, sort of having your cake and

463
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 1: eating it too. I think it's such a brilliant cons

464
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 1: scept and it totally comes from Roger Waters, and I

465
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: feel like he was again you know, in terms like

466
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: rock feeder. You know, he is one of the pivotal

467
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: figures uh for that. But he couldn't do it without

468
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: someone who was also musically gifted. Because Waters himself, um

469
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: as Gilmore was often you know happy to point out,

470
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: was it was not that great of the musician that

471
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: was got the impression that the people around Roger, especially

472
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: around this period, just got the got the idea that

473
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: he was just moaning all the time, you know what

474
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 1: I mean. And the co producer of The Wall, Bob Ezrind,

475
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: said that this was Roger's record about Roger for what

476
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: Roger and you know, I mean, the reason Rogers took

477
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: control is debated. You know, Gilmore claims he was just

478
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: a control freak and just that he forced his way

479
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: into the center. And then Roger said, well, you know,

480
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: nobody else was contributing things like Nick Mason and Rick Wright,

481
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: word sidelined by personal issues, drug issues, marriages falling apart,

482
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: and David's. I think he said David's lyrics were third rate.

483
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: He's a third rate lyrics sist, which is brutal but

484
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: not totally inaccurate. I think that's true. I think cattle

485
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: and I think that becomes obvious on the later Pink

486
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: Floyd records that Roger Waters is an on like Look

487
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: Roger Waters to me, uh, clearly a difficult person, clearly

488
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: an egomaniac, maybe even a jerk if you want to

489
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: use that term. Um, But I do think that he's

490
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: one of the great lyricists in rock history. And I

491
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: think about the song Comfortably Numb from the Wall as

492
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: being like one of his best lyrics married to some

493
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: of the most beautiful music that David Gilmore came up with,

494
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: especially the guitar solos, Like the first solo I think

495
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: is the best David Gilmore guitar solo. Maybe the guitar

496
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: solo from Time, you would say, could rival that. I

497
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: don't know money money for me, but Money is a

498
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: great guitar solo too. But I just think that the

499
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: guitar solo from Comfortably Numb, It's like one of the

500
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: great guitar solos of all time as far as I'm concerned.

501
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: And then you have like these beautiful lyrics that Roger

502
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: Waters is writing. You know, the line that always really

503
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: moves me is the part where he says, like when

504
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: I was a child, I caught a fleeting glimpse out

505
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: of the corner of my eye. I turned to look

506
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: and it was gone. I cannot put my finger on it.

507
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: Now the child has grown, the dream is gone, you know,

508
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: beautifully used in a Sopranos episode as all the Sopranos

509
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: heads out there, and now, um, I just look at

510
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: that song is like the pinnacle of their partnership and

511
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: what they were able to do together, you know, this

512
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: song that has like real lyrical substance to it, and

513
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: yet because of the majestic music, it totally works and

514
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: like an arena or stadium format, and it just shows

515
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: what those guys were capable of doing together. And as

516
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: we'll see as we get into it, it's also a

517
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: good counterpoint showing the weaknesses of their work apart, you know,

518
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: because I think the strength of that song you are

519
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: that they were able to complement each other, and when

520
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: they're not together, the weaknesses that they each have respectively

521
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: really come to Before. I always thought that was sort

522
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: of there a day in the life, you know. It's

523
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: kind of the song that John and Paul wrote together,

524
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: sort of their last big moment of of of true

525
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: collaboration that became. I think they're they're artistic of high

526
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: point and I always thought of comfortably no one was

527
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: kind of the same way for David Gilmore and Roger Waters.

528
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: So the last time they really came together in a

529
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: way that was productive and created something that transcended I

530
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: think pretty much almost all their work before, and I think,

531
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: to me, that's the defining Pink Floyd song. I think, yeah,

532
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 1: for sure. And it's also the beginning of the end,

533
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: and in a way like that lyric I just read,

534
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,959
Speaker 1: you know, like the dream is gone. You know, in

535
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: a way that is about Pink Floyd, because I mean

536
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: you could argue that they were already done before the Wall,

537
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: because as we said, I mean, that isn't really a

538
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: band record. There's a lot, there's like a there's like

539
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: an army of supporting musicians on that record, which is

540
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: going to become sort of the standard thing for Pink

541
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: Floyd records from here on out, both with Roger Waters

542
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: and without. And craziest thing about just the whole sessions,

543
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: I feel like that a lot of people don't know

544
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: is that Ricky was fired during it. Like he was

545
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: no longer a member of Pink Floyd by the end

546
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: of those sessions, which is crazy of you know, founding member,

547
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: all of his contributions to the prior albums, and he

548
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: was effectively forced out and they brought him back for

549
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,479
Speaker 1: the tour. I think that they sort of kept that

550
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: quiet that they fired him, but he was brought back

551
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: essentially as like a salaried employee, like he was not

552
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: an equal member of the band. And I think it

553
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: like took a while for him to get that status

554
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: back even after Roger Waters left. I think the division

555
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: bell I think in the nine early nineties of when

556
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: he finally was like welcome back officially and legally. I

557
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: think so like the last Roger Waters record with Pink

558
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: Floyd ends up being the final cut, and in a

559
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: way it feels more like a Roger Water solo record

560
00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: to me, Like this is an album that, like when

561
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: I talk too serious Pink Floyd fans, you know, this

562
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: album has its defenders, Like there's a lot of people

563
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: who think that it's like one of the most lyrically

564
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: profound records that Pink Floyd ever did. I know, for

565
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: me personally, it's not really a record I enjoy listening to,

566
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: not only because it's bleak, but it has that thing

567
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: that a lot of solo Roger Waters records have, which

568
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: is that there's not a lot of music on it.

569
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: Like I'm not saying like the music is bad. I'm

570
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: saying there's just not a lot of music. Like it

571
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: tends to be Roger Waters murmuring his lyrics like in

572
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: a low voice, and like this sort of ambient noise

573
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: in the background, and then maybe you get like a

574
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: smashing drum that comes in and the occasional David Gilmour

575
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: guitar solo. Um. But I don't know for me, it's

576
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: a difficult record. How do you feel about it? Yeah?

577
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: I mean I I kind of I approach it with

578
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: the sort of the way that David did, which was

579
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: a lot of the songs were originally off cuts from

580
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: The Wall. They were gonna have a sort of a

581
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,479
Speaker 1: secondary album called Spare Bricks and uh. And then when

582
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: the Falklands War broke out, Um, David decided to basically

583
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: turn this some of these old Wall tracks into another

584
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: concept album that really has a similar plot to The Wall,

585
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: to just anti war, anti fascism and uh. And David

586
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: was kind of like, well, wait a minute, Like, if

587
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 1: they weren't good enough for The Wall, why are they

588
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: good enough now? I will give me a minute to

589
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: work on some songs. I really want to kind of

590
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: contribute to this. And apparently Roger was like, well, no,

591
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: I'm on a roll. I'm gonna go do with this.

592
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: You can either be a part of it or not

593
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: make a choice. I yeah, I find it to be

594
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: really it's not something I listened to for pleasure. I

595
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: put it that way. It's not something I put on

596
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: like you know, I wish you were here, or I

597
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: can just have it on the background and feel anything

598
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: approaching good. Uh. It's definitely interesting though. Yeah. I mean

599
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: it's one of those albums that I keep waiting to

600
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: fall in love with because people that I respect really

601
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: love that record, and I love Pink Floyd. I would

602
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: love to love another Pink Floyd record, and hopefully I'll

603
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: get there with the final cut. But yeah, when I

604
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: listened to it, it feels less connected to The Wall musically.

605
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: Then it does feel connected to the pros and cons

606
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: of Hitchhiking, which ends up being the first Roger Water

607
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: solo record that comes out, and that was originally a

608
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: record that he had written around the same time as

609
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: The Wall, and he pitched both records to the band.

610
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: He said, like, which one do you want to do?

611
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: What you know which which side of songs? And they

612
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: decided to go with the Wall, which I think was

613
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: the right decision. Um. Although again, like the pros and

614
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: cons of Hitchhiking, if I'm listening to it while reading

615
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: the lyrics, it's a very impressive record. It's like one

616
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: of these records like where you know, you know, the

617
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: idea of it is that it's this guy dreaming, uh

618
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: in bed, and he's having like this series of essentially

619
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: like sexual dreams. It's like a married guy and it's

620
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: like these fantasies, and it's like dreams within dreams, and

621
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: it's very complicated. It takes place in real time to

622
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: like all the songs have like the time in the

623
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: morning that he's dreaming incident. It's very clever, but again,

624
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: like musically it um, there's a lot lacking and Roger Waters,

625
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: of course, his voice isn't all that great. Um. And Yeah,

626
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: if it had come out as a book, I think

627
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: I would have appreciated it more than as an album.

628
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: I always find myself like waiting for the song to begin,

629
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, lots of murmuring again,

630
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: like that kind of murmuring quiet voice and kind of

631
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: like ambient, very slow music and uh not any of

632
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: the like sort of beatlesque grand guitar music that you

633
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: associate with with Pink Floyd. And it's interesting. It's interesting

634
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: point in comparison because around that same time, do you

635
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: have a Gilmore put out his second solo record, which

636
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,479
Speaker 1: is about face and Um, which sounds a lot like

637
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd. It sounds more like Pink Floyd than the

638
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: final cut does UM. And it's a record that I

639
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: go back to a lot because I really enjoy it musically,

640
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: but lyrically I couldn't name one lyric from it, you know,

641
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: like there's not any of the depth that you expect

642
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: from like a great Pink Floyd record. It's just great

643
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: David Gilmore guitar playing UM and it really kind of

644
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: hewing close to the formula that that fans of that

645
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: band like the lyric I do know from that album

646
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: that I love because it's just for you know, our

647
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: purposes as you know, I'm right, which is kind of

648
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: like his how do You Sleep style, like dig towards

649
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: Waters or he says, you know, you can scream and

650
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: shout with all your might, dig in your heels and

651
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: hold on tight. Either You're wrong or I'm right. We

652
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: really seem to have a problem here, But is it

653
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: you or me? I always thought that was directed pretty

654
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 1: obviously at Roger, you know, but like if Roger Waters

655
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: could have written his own discs, I think it would

656
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,719
Speaker 1: have been more memorable. Like I wish that Roger Waters

657
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: could have written a mean song about Roger Waters for

658
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: David Gilmore for that record, you know, because like David Gilmore,

659
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: you know, like he's not as good at being mean

660
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: ors as being clever lyrically as as Roger Waters is. Um.

661
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 1: But again, like to me, like that is the great

662
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: economy that will exist with these two guys's work from

663
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: here on out that you know, one guy is gonna

664
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: write great lyrics and have great kind of conceptual ideas.

665
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: And again I think the pros and kinds of Hitchhiking,

666
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: there's a great idea. It's very clever, and I really

667
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: appreciate how well that album is constructed lyrically, but musically

668
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 1: it's lacking. And then you have Gilmore who has great music,

669
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: but lyrically it's lacking. It doesn't have the great concepts

670
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: that you hope for from from Pink Floyd. But in

671
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: a way you can really see that David Gilmore is

672
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 1: gonna win this fight. Uh, And it's interesting like how

673
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: that ends up turning out for Pink Floyd and it

674
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: really starts to turn bad for Roger when he leaves

675
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 1: the band because like it was his choice to leave,

676
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: like he wasn't fired, right, Yeah. I think it was

677
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 1: just that he didn't want to do Pink Floyd albums anymore.

678
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: And I think that he in order to get out

679
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: of that contract and not and not have to do anymore,

680
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: he had to resign from the band just that he yeah,

681
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: so he could get out of it and not get

682
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: sued by CBS. But I think he he truly thought

683
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: that when he left, Pink Floyd would be over. He

684
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 1: was Pink Floyd and he had all the ideas and

685
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: the band would just you know, collapse and um. And

686
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: that may have been the case for a short period,

687
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: but I would imagine that when David solo just didn't

688
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: do so hot, pink Floyd's a pretty reliable source of income,

689
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: so he decided to carry on his Pink Floyd. David

690
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: Gilmour did, and Roger was absolutely furious, and he took

691
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: legal action to try to prevent David and the rest

692
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: of ping Floyd from carrying on. Uh. Turned out he

693
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: had no legal right to do that, so he basically

694
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: he famously said that Pink Floyd was a spent force

695
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: creatively without him, which is, uh, you know, a brutal

696
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,280
Speaker 1: thing to say to your your your three former bandmates. Um,

697
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think he was wrong, though

698
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: I think he I don't think that's wrong. But what

699
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: he didn't count on there is that people didn't care

700
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: exactly and that this and that what people associate I

701
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,959
Speaker 1: think first with Pink Floyd is the sound of David

702
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 1: Gilmour's voice in his guitar and not necessarily the lyrics.

703
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 1: And the thing about Pink Floyd is that they were

704
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: one of the bands that most successfully sort of de

705
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: emphasized the fame aspect of being in a hugely successful

706
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: rock band. Like they weren't like the Rolling Stones, like

707
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: where it was about you know, the frontman out front,

708
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: dancing around and being a superstar. It's like these were

709
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: four average looking guys who hid behind their music and

710
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: like a great sort of visual live show. And you

711
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: just wonder, like how many people even knew who Roger

712
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: Waters was, you know, like casual fans. You know, it

713
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: seems like as we move forward that like that was

714
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: that's something that a lot of people were either aware

715
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: of or that they even cared about. And it's interesting

716
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 1: too because that the resulting Pink Floyd album, A Momentary

717
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: Lapse of Reason was I think the first Pink Floyd

718
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: album in maybe since Adam hart Mother. I forget which one,

719
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: but something like twenty years fifteen years that had a

720
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: picture of any members of the band on and they

721
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: had a picture of of David and Nick, who at

722
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: that time were the only two legal members of Pink Floyd.

723
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: Rick was still not legally welcomed back. What do you think,

724
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: a momentary lapse of reason. I it tends to get

725
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: It did phenomenally well, as you know a Pink Floyd

726
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: album would, but it's been dismissed by pretty much everybody involved.

727
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: And Roger called it a poor forgery. But even uh,

728
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: even Gilmore would be like, all right, yeah, this project

729
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: was kind of hard without Roger. You know, he didn't

730
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: have his creative direction. It was the first album in

731
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: in many that didn't really have a concept behind it,

732
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: and they had all these writing contributions for lyrics from

733
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: always outside lyricists, and it to me, it didn't really

734
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: hang together. It's not really all a unity to it.

735
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: But what do you think of it? Yeah? I think

736
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: it's a pretty clunky record. I'm I'm actually a fan

737
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: of the Division Bell, like the record that came after this,

738
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: I think that's like a pretty good record, although I

739
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: tend to think of it more as a David Gilmore

740
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: solo record than as a Pink Floyd record. UM. But yeah,

741
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: like about Face, for instance, I think it's much better

742
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: than Momentary Lapse of Reason UM. And I think all

743
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: those things that you just mentioned, like all the contributors

744
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 1: to the record, the lack of cohesion, it just makes

745
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: it sound like a band really trying hard to be

746
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd, but like without a really strong sort of

747
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: driving force at the center. Even though I think Gilmore

748
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: again musically UM has some nice flourishes on that record,

749
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: like Learning to Fly I think has some nice moments,

750
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: and like one Slip there's a salad song. But it

751
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: seems like ultimately that record was an excuse to tour

752
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: for Pink Floyd, because I mean, they really hadn't done

753
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: a major tour since Animals, because they did the That

754
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: Wall tour, but it was an only select cities and

755
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: I think they only did about twenty shows, and then

756
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: they didn't tour behind the Final Cut, and it just

757
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 1: seemed like there was a perfect storm for people who

758
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: grew up loving Pink Floyd but never had a chance

759
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: to see them. And now there's this record that came out.

760
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: That's okay, but it's like, oh, wow, Pink Floyd is

761
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:24,959
Speaker 1: going to be at a stadium near me. I really

762
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: need to see them. And I mean that tour just

763
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: did phenomenal. And the really tragic part is that Roger

764
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 1: was touring his album Radio Chaos at the same time,

765
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: sometimes in the same cities at the same time. And

766
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: Roger is playing much much, much, much much smaller venues

767
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: and obviously that didn't sit well with him, and he

768
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: apparently would threaten legal action against stadiums who were advertising

769
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd tours. He was still was in the midst

770
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: of their lawsuit over the name, and he was absolutely irate.

771
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: And you know, because he's the whole premise of his argument,

772
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? I am Pink Floyd. He

773
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: these the light shows that I of and all the

774
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: concepts that I have that that's all the stuff that

775
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: you love about Pink Pointers, what I brought to it.

776
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: Those are just the guys that I had playing my songs.

777
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: Can I just like read to you from the liner

778
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: notes of Radio Radio Chaos, like because Roger Waters he writes,

779
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: like the plot of the album in the linner notes,

780
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: and I'll just read an excerpt here. He says, Benny

781
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: is a Welsh coal miner. He is a radio ham.

782
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: He is twenty three years old Mary to Molly. They

783
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: have a son, young Ben, aged four, and a new baby.

784
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 1: They look after Benny's twin brother, Billy, who was apparently

785
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: a vegetable. The mind is closed by market forces. The

786
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: male voice choir stopped singing, and I'm gonna stop reading

787
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:41,720
Speaker 1: this because I know people are listening to this podcast

788
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 1: while driving, and I don't want to want anyone to

789
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: fall asleep while reading this. It's just like it's so dense,

790
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 1: it's so there's so many details, and like, in a way,

791
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,959
Speaker 1: I really respect it. It's a tremendous imagination on Roger

792
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: Waters part. But I just had this thing in my

793
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: mind of like, oh, what if David Gilmour could have

794
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: written some cool guitar parts for Radio Chaos, and that

795
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,439
Speaker 1: could have been a Pink Floyd record, you know, and

796
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: and just de emphasized the lyrical density of that record

797
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: and and just make it more musically engaging. I think

798
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: that would have been a much better record than what

799
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: Radio Chaos ended up being. And what Momentary Laps of

800
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: Reason was Because again, I think radio Chaos is an

801
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: interesting idea. It's just that, like Roger Waters didn't have

802
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: the sort of musical acumen to make it more fun

803
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: to listen to. Yeah, I want the premise, like, just

804
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: tell me the premise, but actually sitting down to go

805
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: through it is just it's an ordeal and I and I,

806
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to like it so bad. I

807
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: revisited it to prepare for this, and I just I

808
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: could barely get through it. Yeah, it's it's a tough listen.

809
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: You know. Again, I've come to appreciate his solo records

810
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: more over the years, but yeah, they don't have that

811
00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: again sense of sweep and majesty that you expect from Floyd.

812
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: All right hand, We'll be right back with more rivals.

813
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 1: So there's somewhat of a day. On Christmas Eve, appropriately seven,

814
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: David and Roger convened for a summit on David's houseboat,

815
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: which is probably the least rock and roll sentence that

816
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: we've ever said on this podcast. Uh, And the arrangement

817
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: kind of gave Dave and Nick the freedom to make

818
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: music under the name Pink Floyd, while Roger retained the

819
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 1: copyright to the wall concept and the inflatable animals pig

820
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: that deal for him, right, Yeah, didn't that pig? Yeah?

821
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: He tried to like sue pink Floyd, like the postwaters

822
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd from using that pig, and then Pink Floyd

823
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: got around it by attaching testicles to it to say

824
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: that it was a different pig, and that pissed him

825
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: off big time too. That was like a huge troll

826
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: move by Gilmore, so you know, I have some credit

827
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: for that. But then they end up having you know,

828
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: there's like this long gap that occurs, you know, from

829
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: the late eighties until they end up having this reunion

830
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: at Live eight UM in the mid odds, and UM,

831
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:22,760
Speaker 1: I remember watching that and being like beyond pleasantly surprised

832
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 1: by how well it came off. They ended up playing

833
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: four songs. I believe it was like comfortably numb, wish

834
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: you were here. Um, I'm trying to remember the other songs.

835
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: I mean, it was basically like the greatest hits run um.

836
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: But they sounded really great and it automatically started, you know,

837
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: getting people talking about like whether they would end up

838
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: doing a reunion tour or not which if that could

839
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: have happened, I feel like that would have been maybe

840
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: the biggest tour of all time, if you could have

841
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: gotten those guys back together. Um, I mean, do you

842
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,280
Speaker 1: remember did you watch that? Oh yeah, I remember getting

843
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: I remember thinking, oh my god, I hope they tore.

844
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: I hope they And there are all those reports about

845
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: them getting offered, like I think they were offered a

846
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty six million pounds, which is like, you know,

847
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: almost two hundred million dollars to tour. It sounded incredible,

848
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: and they I thought they seemed like they were getting

849
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: along pretty well. They looked like they liked each other.

850
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 1: They hugged at the end. It was it was very sweet. Yeah.

851
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 1: I mean, like Roger Waters, like he addressed the audience

852
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: and he, you know, he said, like, it's quite emotional

853
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: standing up here with these three guys after all these

854
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: years standing we counted with the rest of you were

855
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: doing this for everyone who's not here, and particularly of

856
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 1: course for Sid you know, like another acknowledgment of Sid Barrett. Yeah,

857
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: I mean, they just sounded great. You feel like if

858
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: they could have done a tour, it would have been amazing,

859
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: But sadly, you know, rick Wright died. I think what

860
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: like maybe three years after that or so, Yeah, rick

861
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: Wright died, and David basically said, you know, Roger was

862
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: actually willing to do it. He was saying, you know,

863
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm gonna do a whole tour,

864
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: but if you want to go and do some charity

865
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: gigs and stuff, I'm all for. If you want to

866
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: get back together. David kind of said, you know what,

867
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: this this was good for me. Where where we're done.

868
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: I guess they were squabbling during rehearsal about you know,

869
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,240
Speaker 1: the songs to play and it's still all those old wounds,

870
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: we're still there. Uh So at this point it was

871
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: David kind of putting his foot down. I think he

872
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: had a solo album due out the next year and

873
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: he's just like, no, I'm busy, I'm doing my own thing.

874
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: Been there, done that with Roger. Like, you know, getting

875
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 1: a semi apology out of Roger for the whole name

876
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: lawsuit thing was like kind of a highlight of it

877
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: for him. What's interesting to me about Roger Waters, like

878
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: in the past say, ten years, is that he has

879
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: become the new Pink Floyd's substitute you know, like like

880
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: the David Gilmour version of Pink Floyd. You know, they

881
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: put out The Division Bell in four and they do

882
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: like a hugely successful stadium tour and then that's basically

883
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: it for Pink Floyd, you know. You know, they put

884
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,919
Speaker 1: out that record The Endless River, you know, a couple

885
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: of years ago, which was basically Division Bell outtakes. You know,

886
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: they put up box sets from time to time, but

887
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, they are in essence a defunct band. So

888
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 1: now you have Roger Waters stepping into this void because

889
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd is still a tremendously popular band. There's a

890
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 1: huge demand to see this music perform live and all that,

891
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: and he's now become the substitute for like the you know,

892
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: the people that want to hear that music in an

893
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: arena or a stadium and see the grand spectacle, you know,

894
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: be performed. You know, he's done all those tours for

895
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: the Wall. You know, he's done like Dark Side of

896
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,760
Speaker 1: the Moon tours. He toured behind h his own record

897
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: that he put out last year, which I can't remember

898
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: the name of, but it's like, because the life we

899
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 1: really want is this the life we really want? That

900
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: record actually it's a good record. And I saw that

901
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: tour and it was amazing because, uh, he was touring

902
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: with this guitar player named Jonathan Wilson, who is a

903
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: great singer, songwriter, a great record producers, work with Father

904
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: John Misty and Dawes and lots of other groups. Jonathan

905
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: was basically playing David Gilmour in this band. And he

906
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: even has like long hair and a beard. He's a

907
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 1: blond guy. Uh, and he could sing just like David Gilmore,

908
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: and he played those Gilmore solos note for note like

909
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: there were there was no improvisation at all. It just

910
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 1: struck me that, like, yeah, like he's now giving people

911
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: that Pink Floyd experience that they can't get from like

912
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 1: the band branded as Pink Floyd. Um. So in a way,

913
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: it seems like these guys have achieved a measure of peace.

914
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: Although I mean, I just saw an interview recently that

915
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 1: Roger Waters did with Rolling Stone, like where he alluded

916
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 1: to having some trouble with David Gilmore. I mean, it

917
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: seems like they're still sniping at each other behind the scenes.

918
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: It's it's so sad, like now they're fighting about the

919
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd website which is like you know, like like

920
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: like ex boyfriend and girlfriend like fighting over like the

921
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: Netflix password or something. I guess like David Gilmore won't

922
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 1: let Roger advertise some of his projects, like the concert

923
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: film US and ma'am in this case on the Pink

924
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: Floyd website, and he said, oh, David wants to David

925
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: thinks he owns Pink Floyd. Now you know I left

926
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: the band in he's trying to scrub all my all

927
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 1: my accomplishments from the band from the band's website. And yeah,

928
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: it's really it got really petty recently. I think it

929
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: was just like a month or two ago too. So

930
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: this is the part of the episode that where we

931
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 1: look at the pro sides for each side of the rivalry,

932
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: and with David Gilmore, I think it's fair to say

933
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: that Pink Floyd would not have become the stadium band

934
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: that they became if Sid Barrett had remained the lead singer.

935
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: You know, we talked about this earlier in the episode.

936
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: I think that Gilmore's entrance into Pink Floyd really helped

937
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: usher them into the seventies because of his voice in

938
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: his guitar playing. It's made them a band better suited

939
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: for playing those large spaces. And I think it also

940
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: ended up using perfectly with what Roger Waters was going

941
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 1: to be doing lyrically. That for sort of the grandiosity

942
00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: of the lyrics that he was writing Gilmore's music and

943
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 1: and what he did as a guitar player, it just

944
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: added the perfect compliment to that. And I'll just say

945
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: generally too, and we've talked about this previously that for me,

946
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: David Gilmore projects are just more immediately satisfying. You know,

947
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: I can put on a David Gilmore record like About Face, which, again,

948
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd fans if you haven't heard that record, to me,

949
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: it is like the best Pink Floyd record of the eighties, like,

950
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, at least in terms of just like delivering

951
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: like tuneful songs delivered in that sort of familiar Pink

952
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 1: Floyd style. Um, I just think that he's he's like

953
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: the candy of Pink Floyd. You know, He's the guy

954
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: that is giving you like what you want, maybe most immediately,

955
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: while Roger Waters is maybe giving you the vegetables you know,

956
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: to be a little bit more sustaining. But I mean

957
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 1: that would be my case for David Gilmore. I mean,

958
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: I think that again, that would be my case for

959
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,879
Speaker 1: David Gilmore. His vocals and his guitar playing, those are

960
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: the sonic signatures of this band and that's why they

961
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: were able to successfully continue even without Roger Waters the

962
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,800
Speaker 1: tour at the Center. Yeah, you know, Roger would have

963
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: all these incredible cinematic concepts, but I think that David's

964
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: music was just was cinematic in its own right too,

965
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: and it needed that. And now, like you said, I

966
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: mean his his solo albums read like film scripts that

967
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: haven't been produced, you know. It just it feels a

968
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 1: lot more like you need that extrasensory element that David contributed.

969
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: I mean, he's better singer, better musician, I mean, And

970
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: just you know, I always think of those four notes

971
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: on Shine on Your Crazy Diamond, just that you know that,

972
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:45,359
Speaker 1: duh incredible the emotion in just those four notes, How

973
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 1: haunting it sounds, how haunt did it sounds just lonely,

974
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: you know exactly, even if you don't know the sid backstory,

975
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 1: it just it's so unsettling and so crazy what he's

976
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: able to do with the economy of notes, and it's Yeah,

977
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: I really think that he is the band's primary mouthpiece,

978
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: and no matter who came up with the concepts, I

979
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: think that his his role, he will always be the

980
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:12,439
Speaker 1: one that people think of. Uh for that reason. Um

981
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: and I just think that just almost like attitude wise

982
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: in the band, I always think of Roger is kind

983
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: of being this really tempestuous, fiery person. I think of

984
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 1: Roger just sort of being a a chilling influence, if

985
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, he just seems like

986
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: to be this zen guitar god who could maybe diffuse

987
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 1: situations in the studio that that did get a little

988
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: heated and which undoubtedly they did. I mean Roger um

989
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: Rick ut fired. So yeah, I just feel like personality

990
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 1: wise too, he probably was responsible. I mean, this is

991
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: just amastra psychologious, but uh, for diffusing a lot of

992
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 1: situations that could have ended a lot badly and maybe

993
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: ended the band even sooner. He's definitely the guy you'd

994
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: rather hang out with, you know. He definitely seems like

995
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: the better hang go go go, grab a point with

996
00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: David Gilmour at the pub and talk about Roger Waters. Uh,

997
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: that sounds like a pretty fun night. Speaking of Roger

998
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 1: Waters though, the pro case for him, you know, as

999
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: difficult as he is and as much of an ego

1000
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: egotist as he seems to be. In my opinion, he

1001
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,720
Speaker 1: is again one of the great lyricists in rock history,

1002
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: and I think he's like maybe the best conceptualists. And

1003
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,439
Speaker 1: you know, as I said before, I in terms of

1004
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 1: you know, rock theater, his contributions I think are as

1005
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: significant as anybody's, uh, you know, Pink Floyd made arena

1006
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: rock records about arena rock at a time when punk

1007
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: rockers were, you know, taking shots at Pink Floyd as dinosaurs.

1008
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: I mean, none of those people wrote about the downsides

1009
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: of rock and sort of the fascist overtones of like

1010
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: rock concerts more incisively than Roger Waters. And then he

1011
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 1: was able to actually turn those observations into arena rock entertainment,

1012
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: which again I just think that's such a master stroke

1013
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: and it's what adds to the richness of those records.

1014
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: And as much as I love David Gilmore's could hard

1015
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: playing in his voice and what he was able to

1016
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: bring to the band musically, I think if Pink Floyd

1017
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: records didn't have that element, they wouldn't be as rich

1018
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 1: as they are now, you know, Like I love the band, Yes,

1019
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: for instance. You know, I think they are great seventies

1020
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: prog rock band, uh, but they don't go as deep

1021
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: as Pink Floyd because they don't have a Roger Waters.

1022
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: You know, they're writing songs about unicorns and wizards and

1023
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: things like that, you know, whereas you can listen to

1024
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 1: the great Pink Floyd records and they're as relevant now

1025
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: as they were then. I mean, come on the wall.

1026
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 1: That album could have been written about, you know, Dark

1027
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: Side of the Moon could have been written about. And

1028
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of rock records that you can

1029
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 1: say that about. UM. So I think Roger Waters definitely

1030
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 1: deserves his fair share of the credit for that. Um

1031
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: And again, he was the tour of this band, and

1032
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 1: when he left and he called the band a spent

1033
00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: force creatively, I think he was right, you know. Unfortunately, though,

1034
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: he had a lot to do with them being a

1035
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: spend force creatively, and if he could have found a

1036
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: way to work with David Gilmore, maybe they could have

1037
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 1: stayed together longer and made more music. I had a

1038
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 1: really interesting comparison of Roger Waters to Walt Disney, which

1039
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: I never would have thought of him. My own was

1040
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 1: Walt Disney was sort of this medium talented visual artist

1041
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: who was just this conceptual genius and just create took

1042
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: this medium that he worked in sort of not super

1043
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: successfully at and then created these huge spectacles like first

1044
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: animated films and theme parks and just made this. It

1045
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: turned into a grand art form that didn't really exist

1046
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:39,879
Speaker 1: i think before he created it. And I think that's

1047
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: an interesting way to think of Roger Waters too. Um,

1048
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: that's good. I like that idea. And I'm just thinking

1049
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 1: of like I'm thinking like waters World with like you know,

1050
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,720
Speaker 1: like those crazy drawings from the wall, like just terrifying children,

1051
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: just like a parade in main Street with like the

1052
00:54:55,440 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: marching hammers and stuff. It's just interesting to me, you know.

1053
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: Billy Corgan gave this rant interview like ten years ago

1054
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 1: where he's just ranting about like nostalgia acts getting out

1055
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: there and playing all their old songs. And one of

1056
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: the only acts that kind of avoids that he singles

1057
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: out is actually doing it right and playing their old

1058
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: songs in a way with meeting was Roger Waters. He

1059
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: was talking about the Wall. So much of Roger's work

1060
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: just it doesn't there because what you said it could

1061
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: have been written about twenty and he's so good at

1062
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 1: taking some songs from forty years ago and applying it

1063
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: to concepts that are in the world now. I mean

1064
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: the Wall being a great example for the border crisis

1065
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 1: and Palestinian conflict, and Pigs was originally written about Mary

1066
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: white House, who was a BBC censor, but now he

1067
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,320
Speaker 1: sings about white House, people think it means the white House.

1068
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 1: It's just it's interesting, how Yeah, his work is so

1069
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: easily applicable to many different times, in many different eras

1070
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: when there's like I mean, the sad part is if

1071
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: he's written songs that are about you know, oppression. Uh,

1072
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 1: there's awful lot of oppression that's still gonna be going

1073
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: on for a lot forty years. So it's depressing that

1074
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: his works are as relevant as they are, but you know,

1075
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,239
Speaker 1: we do need them. So when we talk about these

1076
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: two guys together, I feel like we've hit upon this

1077
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:13,280
Speaker 1: point repeatedly in this episode. But again for me, Roger

1078
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: Waterson David Gilmore, there's no better example of of a

1079
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: partnership where the two guys compliment each other as perfectly.

1080
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: You know, even like Lennon McCartney, those guys were capable

1081
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: of writing on their own and doing great work on

1082
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: their own, and even in the Beatles, they often did

1083
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: write on their own and then maybe one guy would

1084
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: help out polish polishing a song at the end or something.

1085
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 1: But with with Waters and Gilmore, you just feel like, man,

1086
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 1: it was like peanut butter and jelly, you know, like

1087
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 1: they completed each other. It was in a way that

1088
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: I think few partners did. And it's great that they

1089
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,399
Speaker 1: were able to keep it together as long as they did.

1090
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 1: But again, I feel like, especially Waters, if he could

1091
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: have just appreciated what Gilmore brought to the table, you

1092
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: feel like there could have been a few more brilliant

1093
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd records that we could all be enjoying right now. Yeah,

1094
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 1: I mean I always thought it was. It was sort

1095
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: of a musician and the genius, the storyteller and the craftsman.

1096
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: Roger Waters is this conceptual genius who's you know, huge ego,

1097
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 1: pushed the band to pursue these grandiose projects that really

1098
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: raised the bar for what a rock production could be.

1099
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: But you also have David Gilmour, who's the sort of

1100
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: zen guitar god with this amazing gift for melody, and

1101
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: it was a combination of the two, the gay Pink Floyd,

1102
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 1: their magic. Yeah, I think without the sort of Roger

1103
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: Waters just sort of sounds like a bitter uh, you know,

1104
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: railing against the the establishment and David Gilmour kind of is.

1105
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: Some of the solo records sort of sound like spa music,

1106
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: you know. I mean it's together, it's it's yeah, you

1107
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 1: need them, you need them both. Well, I just want

1108
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: you to know, Jordan, that I appreciate what you do

1109
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: for me, how you complete me, and without you I

1110
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: would just be numb. But with you, I'm comfortably numb.

1111
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: So I appreciate that you know, it's always going to

1112
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: be us in them. Well, on that note, I think

1113
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: it's time to sign off. So thank you again for

1114
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: going over this rivalry with us here on this show.

1115
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more Rivals next week. Rivals is

1116
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. The executive producers are

1117
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: Shaan ty Toone and Noel Brown. Supervising producers are Taylor R.

1118
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: Cooin and Tristan McNeil. I'm Jordan run Talk. I'm Stephen Hyden.

1119
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

1120
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: us a review for more podcast for My Heart radio,

1121
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or ever

1122
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.