1 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Well, hello, everybody, it is I Rosie O'Donnell, star of 2 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: Wide Awake. I know that's a movie you've never seen, 3 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: but I'm in it with Dana Delaney and with Dennis 4 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: Leary and it's a great film. By night Shyamalan before 5 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: he did all of his successful movies, and I play 6 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: a nun. So look for that if you want something 7 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: to watch that's not the news, because oh boy, is 8 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: their news the war when we're recording this is a 9 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: few days in and it's terrifying, all of it, absolutely 10 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: horrific and traumatizing to so many. And you know, here's 11 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: something I read that really I thought was succinct and perfect. 12 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: Palestinian people are not Hamas. Jewish people are not Israel. 13 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: Israel is a state. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Please 14 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: understand the difference. Both Palestinian and Jewish people deserve freedom, 15 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: self determination, and safety. Islamophobia and anti Semitism are unacceptable, 16 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: and you know that's that's the truth. And just the 17 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: horrors of this group Hamas. The brutality, the medieval like 18 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: debauchery is uh, well, it's terrifying, and that's what the 19 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: goal of that organization is. To end the Jewish people 20 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: and to end Israel, and it's very overwhelming, and we 21 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: all pray for peace and for some kind of a solution, 22 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: and of course for the return of the hostages. This 23 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: is going on in just a couple of days. Well, 24 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: we don't know what's going to happen between now and then. 25 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: It is Thursday, October twelfth when I'm recording this as 26 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: I am headed over to London. Folks, I'm headed over 27 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: to London, and I don't know what has happened in 28 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: the war since this moment. Ten thirty on October twelfth. 29 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: You know, I just pray for peace. 30 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: So I am flying to London to see Madonna's opening night, 31 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: you know, to have befriended her so many years ago 32 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: before I had children while doing that movie Lee their Own, 33 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: And think now, you know, at sixty one and sixty five, 34 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: we're still friends, and we still love each other, and 35 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: we're still there for each other. And that's you know, really, 36 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: that's all you need in life is to show up 37 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: for the people you love. I believe, and it matters, 38 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: you know, just like it matters when people show up 39 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: for you. So there you have it. We have a 40 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: wonderful show today. A close friend of mine and a 41 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: wonderful talent, A writer, a songwriter, a poet, a painter, 42 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: a mother, a daughter, a sister, a friend, Sophie B. 43 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: Hawkins. 44 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: And she had that huge hit in the nineties. Damn, 45 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: I wish I was your lover. And we met shortly 46 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: after that. And you know, you have profound loves in 47 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: your life, and I think for me this was one 48 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: of them. You know, we were both very young all 49 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: those years ago. 50 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: But here she is. 51 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: She's got a brand new album, she's got two beautiful children, 52 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: She's worked on herself and her life and is quite 53 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: introspective and quite captivating, I believe. 54 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 2: So take a listen. Here is my buddy, Sephie B. Hawkins. 55 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: Selphie Valentine Hawkins. How are you, Runs, How are you? 56 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: It's so good to see you and to know that 57 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: I have you trapped for one hour and I can 58 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: ask you anything you. 59 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: Can and you know all answer. I like that you say, 60 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 2: trapped for one hour, yeah, because I know you like 61 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 2: to do a lot of things. 62 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: You're always like creating something, and you know I have 63 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: found that. You know, we've known each other how many years. 64 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: Let's get that out of the way. 65 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 2: Let's talk about when we met. Do you want to Yeah? Sure, yes, 66 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 2: I mean, well, I saw you. I was on tour 67 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: for tonguesen Tails. I was somewhere in the Midwest. I 68 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 2: went to see a league of their own and I 69 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: called Lori east Side and I said, you got to 70 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: go see a league of their own. Rosie o'donnald is 71 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 2: so fabulous. I love her so much. Then, how I 72 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: don't know who you invited me to your comedy show. 73 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: It was down the stairs somewhere in the West village, right. 74 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: It was actually Caroline's comedy club. But you do walk 75 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: downstairs to get to the showroom. Yes, So then I 76 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: watched you and I thought you were the funniest thing ever. Well, 77 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: because I owe even now, I think you're the funniest 78 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: thing ever. You just have to say anything. I started 79 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: to laugh. And then you did a spoof on damn. 80 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 2: Remember you were squeezing your butt cheeks together, and you 81 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 2: had your butt facing the audience and you're like, how 82 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 2: does she get up there? 83 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: Damn? 84 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 2: And you would squeeze your cheeks. Do you remember that. 85 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: I don't remember that, No, but I believe you. Yes. 86 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 2: And then after the show we connected, and then we've 87 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: been connecting ever since in various ways. 88 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: And we had a long period where we were out 89 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: of each other's worlds for like a decade or so. 90 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: It was horrible. It wasn't good for me either, I 91 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: have to tell me. And it wasn't really it wasn't 92 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: my desire. It was the forces around me. And I've 93 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: had to work through a lot of things like that 94 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: in my life, and I think a lot of people 95 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: do who come from these very controlled environments in childhood. 96 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 2: We they write it lots of things, they call it 97 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: lots of things. 98 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: Now, your childhood was the most magical childhood that I 99 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: and it was a difficult childhood, I would say. When 100 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: you introduced me to your world and I got to 101 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: know and love your sister and your brother and your 102 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: fantastical mother in this non conventional reality that you shared 103 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: on Central Park, it was a magical, creative time for me. 104 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: Wow, Rosie, that's amazing. I did feel it was magical, 105 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: and I feel I honored that in my lyrics and 106 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: was very devoted. You also says to other things in 107 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: my lyrics, and you pointed them out. You're the first 108 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: person to really do that. The birth of creativity is 109 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: sort of the darkness the struggles of humanity. So to 110 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: be free of convention often you wander into places that 111 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: are almost too and caive that you know no boundaries. Yes, so, 112 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: and you were a child, I was a child. I 113 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: was a child buddied wild in Manhattan, and so like 114 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: in a way, freedom has its price, yes, But you know, 115 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: interesting rose because the decade that we weren't in touch, 116 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: the minute that that ended, I was actually standing in 117 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: my house in Venice, and the relationship had ended. In 118 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 2: all the constructs of what I had been doing for 119 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: all those years building up were gone. And I had 120 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: my son, Dashaul, and he was four and a half, 121 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: and we were there alone in this house that we 122 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: had built, and I was looking out the window at 123 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: the leucalyptus tree, and I said, the gates are open, 124 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: the guards are gone. Why are you still here? And 125 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: then I whushed Dashol up, and I came back to Manhattan, 126 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: came to the Upperware side and put him in the 127 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: public school that my sister had sent her kids, and 128 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: reunited with my family. And I didn't know how that 129 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: was going to go, right, But that was the beginning 130 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 2: of my new era. 131 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 1: It was a rebirth for you completely back to yourself. 132 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 2: Yes, it's true, Rose And in a way, the self 133 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 2: with the wisdom, like the self that was there, was 134 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 2: there but always fighting against something to maintain my equilibrium. 135 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: And now I'm the self not having to fight against anything, 136 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 2: and I am my equilibrium. I have this home, and 137 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: I have my children, and I'm still single but feeling 138 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 2: but there's no butt. I feel incredibly grounded and happy. 139 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 2: I think there's several times a day where I say 140 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 2: I love my life, and I say it to my children. 141 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 2: I love our life. Kids, do you live our life? Wow? 142 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 2: Wait till they get a little older. Then they'll start 143 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: telling you all the details. 144 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: I know your son, I got to know a little 145 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: Bitty's gorgeous. First of all, your daughter, I haven't really met. 146 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 1: I haven't met her, Yester, No, I would love to 147 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: meet her and have you meet Dakota. Also, we both 148 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: had a child at fifty. You gave birth, I adopted. Yes, 149 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: what kind of societal pressure did you feel about doing 150 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: it at that age or were you just did you 151 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: know your body could do it? 152 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: And onward? Yes, I knew my body could do it, 153 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 2: And I don't know why but I had a lot 154 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: of things happen. I'll sit down and I'll ask the 155 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: universe or my ancestors of goddesses and gods, whatever I'm asking, 156 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: what should I do. There was a moment where I said, 157 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: should I have a child? Another child? Should I have 158 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 2: this girl? I knew it was going to be a girl. 159 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: I had one embryo that I had frozen. And everyone said, 160 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 2: the chances of your frozen embryo that your froze twenty 161 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: years ago thawing and coming into a child's body is 162 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: almost nothing. And I said, I'll be quiet because I 163 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: know it's going to be a girl. But I had 164 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: to decide when I was really ready to be a parent. 165 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: Now isn't that knowing? Isn't that knowing something you've always had? 166 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: Sort of Yes, I think I've had that too inside 167 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: my life always. Yeh oh, no, thank this is going 168 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: to be true. So I have to do this because 169 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: I know it. Yes, Yeah, you were certain this was 170 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: a girl. 171 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 2: I was certain. And then so I sat in a 172 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 2: little shaft of light and because I had to either 173 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 2: go because they had already started to thaw the embryo, 174 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 2: I had to go into LA because they can't ship 175 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 2: an embryo from LA to New York. There's all sorts 176 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 2: of laws about that. I had to go and put 177 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 2: the embryo in me and have this child, or I 178 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: would say, no, I'm going to be the mother of Dashel, 179 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 2: which would have been honestly fine. So I wanted to 180 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 2: know the reason I should have another child. So I 181 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 2: sat down and I asked, and this voice came to me, 182 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 2: but it wasn't a voice with tone, it was words, 183 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 2: and she said, I will heal Dashel, because only a 184 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 2: child can truly understand a child. I said, okay, I'm 185 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: in you're coming. 186 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: Wow. 187 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 2: And then when I was in La about to put 188 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 2: the embryo in me, I crouched down and I called 189 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 2: my sister, which was interesting because we had been estranged 190 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 2: for a long time. And I called her and I said, 191 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 2: should I have this little girl? And she said, go 192 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 2: for it. 193 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: How do you think being a mother changed your world? Well, 194 00:11:55,640 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: this is interesting. It's a great question. 195 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: Should because I've always been myself with my children, and 196 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 2: I've always wanted to learn how to love them the 197 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 2: way that is best for them. So without thinking about it, 198 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 2: I guess if there was an ultimate way to teach 199 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 2: somebody something. They have to be passionate about it, which 200 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 2: I am passionate about being a mother, and then they 201 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 2: have to not think about what they're doing. They have 202 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: to only think of the thing that they're passionate about, 203 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 2: and it becomes sort of playful. So how it's changed 204 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 2: my world is it's taught me to be myself with 205 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: another person in the most pure way, never thinking of 206 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: what I should be doing for myself or I never 207 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 2: thinking should I protect myself, only thinking what should I 208 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: be doing for this person? 209 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: Like to serve you're serving another soul? Yes, right, And 210 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: that's not good. 211 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: For me, and that's good for me, and it's not 212 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 2: maybe not good for everybody, but it works for me 213 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 2: in everything because I naturally have, like you pointed out, 214 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: a drive to always be creating. And in that tumultuous 215 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: drive can sometimes I can rea have it, I guess, 216 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: because I'm thinking of what I'm doing, what I want 217 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: to do, my goals, whatever. But then the children come 218 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: into it and I think, wait a minute, what's best 219 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 2: for this human being who I love so much, who 220 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: I couldn't bear to hurt. Unfortunately, we do hurt our 221 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 2: children and then that's the greatest lessons of all is 222 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: when we walk away, we go own. Man, did I 223 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: mess up? How am I gonna repair this? 224 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 3: Right? 225 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I don't think I ever did that 226 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 2: for other people, but I do it daily with my children. 227 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 2: What a wonderful insight. But you know, you have to 228 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: cut yourself some slack too. 229 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: Growing up in a chaotic environment, and I would put 230 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: chaos there? 231 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: Would you put chaos of cool? So that that was 232 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 2: the food? 233 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: Yes, that was the The entire meal was chaos. It 234 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: was all chaotic and and but to me so exotic, Yeah, 235 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: it was so exotic. Now, I grew up in as 236 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: you made fun of me when you first saw my own, 237 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: I was so me very suburban, right, I grew up 238 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: in like the heart of suburbia. And you were this 239 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: wild family in the middle of Central Park, like you 240 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: knew Central Park like the back of your hand. Your 241 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: family would take walks together through Central Park. It was 242 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: so artistic, it was so out of my reality that 243 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: I like fell in love with the whole lore of it, 244 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: you know. And only as I grew older, and then 245 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: we hadn't been in each other's lives for so long, 246 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: did I worry about what that really does to a 247 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: tiny kid, and how they're able to form the synapses 248 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: that were maybe not connected in their childhood in adulthood 249 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: and be able to kind of survive it. 250 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 2: Does that make sense? Yes, First of all, I want 251 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 2: to say to you that I always did feel that 252 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: I was too judgmental of when I would see the 253 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: picture on the fridge and I would say, you know whatever, 254 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: you all look so suburban. And I don't know why 255 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: I had such a fear of that. And I actually 256 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: do love normalcy, and in some ways people call me normal. 257 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: They go, You're so normal, But I think what they 258 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 2: mean is that I'm there's no frills, and you know, 259 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 2: I don't really love drama, but your family there wasn't 260 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: really a reason for me to be judgmental, and I 261 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: think that's my fear of seeing myself, which I've realized 262 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 2: really recently, like a deep fear of intimacy, and so 263 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 2: picking on you was a way to put up a wall. 264 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, honey. It's okay. We were young. 265 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: First of all, we were very young, and we were 266 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: both you know, so in the launching of our careers. 267 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: You know, yes, yes, I had met you right before 268 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: or right as league came out and your record was 269 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: was out and Dan was a huge hit. And I 270 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: remember telling Marjorie Gross, I go that that woman is 271 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: captivating and she said I know her, and I was like, 272 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: you remember Marjorie Gross she died of cancer. Yes, I do, yes, 273 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: And she knew you through some friends and oh from 274 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: pet Place, Yes, that's right. 275 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 2: She roommated with me on Print Street and that's or 276 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: she left and I moved in. That was the apartment 277 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: that I wrote as I lead made down it. That 278 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 2: was a fun house. Say, had like four cats and 279 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 2: the toilet was on a throne and it was just 280 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 2: very wild. 281 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, well you were you had that big hit. 282 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: And I remember saying, as a joke, she said, oh, 283 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: she's she's you know, gay, or she's whatever the word 284 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: was that whatever the word is that we're using now. 285 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: And I was like, are you kidding? 286 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: She's like no, and she goes and I can introduce 287 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: you to her, and I was like done. But we 288 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: were so young and so on the brink of something, 289 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, and yeah, and parenthood, motherhood was about to arrive, 290 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: and and you know, I had Parker first, And. 291 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 2: Remember going over to your house to see you. 292 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: You'd be painting, and yes, you'd toddle around, and then 293 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: you had your own blonde boy, which I thought was 294 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: so marvelous. 295 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: So much later than you, see, Rosie, when you had Parker, 296 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 2: I didn't even know that I would ever be a 297 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 2: parent and I hadn't even frozen my embryos yet. Wow. 298 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 2: I couldn't have conceived of being a parent when you 299 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 2: had Parker. That And you know, I didn't understand that 300 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 2: anything that you had started to do. And then it 301 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: wasn't till much later, till I was forty. I had 302 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: dash of forty four, right, And that also in a 303 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: way set me on my path to myself again from 304 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 2: being because what you're talking about, the way that I 305 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: grew up, there is a way in which a person 306 00:17:58,160 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 2: it's kind of hard to sort of say it and 307 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,959 Speaker 2: us say it, but the kind of person who dissociates 308 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 2: to get through things, and you create all these other worlds. 309 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: And it's true, my money was the best at creating 310 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 2: the worlds and the best at sort of dissociating, creating 311 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: other personalities. She made it all fun and very creative 312 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 2: that she was a writer. So what a model a survival. 313 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 2: So she survived the most parendous things in childhood, you know, 314 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 2: sexual abuse, interests, all of that, alcoholism, you name it. 315 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 2: She survived it. But she did it with like this 316 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 2: of her day, the dashing creative feminist. You know, she 317 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 2: put band aids on her nipples instead of wearing a 318 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 2: brawl right, and I thought that was noble and cute. 319 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: And then she raised this in Manhattan with no sense 320 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: of like structure, or even though she understood structure. She 321 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: was disciplined, and I liked that about her, because she 322 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 2: wrote every day. She didn't sense so we needed any 323 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 2: protection or any kind of looking after. Life got harder 324 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: in my thirties in the sense of like, yes, I 325 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 2: had gotten to the point where I made my first 326 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 2: and second record a so successful, and of course we 327 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 2: all work like dobbs, that's a given. But then it 328 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 2: started to be that how do I keep my place 329 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 2: in the world and keep growing and changing as a 330 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 2: female artist. How do I not be repetitive? How do 331 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: I not go daddy, daddy, daddy? What should I do 332 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 2: and be a stronger and stronger woman in this world? 333 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 2: That was in a way turning against the female artist 334 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 2: for a while. The end of the nineties was difficult, 335 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 2: so you know, then I decided to get off Sony 336 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 2: and become an independent artist. But also I was looking 337 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 2: for protection. And the problem with looking for protection is 338 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 2: that you're always going to find someone who doesn't have 339 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 2: the slightest idea how to protect you, right, and in 340 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 2: fact it's going to tune out the opposite. So luckily 341 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: that I have grown out of that with a lot 342 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 2: of work, that's wonderful. 343 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: And I I had to grow out of constantly being 344 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: the protector, yes, and I think in some ways I 345 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,959 Speaker 1: still do it. And I have tremendous anxiety. When a 346 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: world issue comes up, it just takes me under the 347 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: undertow and I'm lost in the dark sea for a while. 348 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: You know, I am unable. I am forced to face 349 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: how little control we all have in life every time 350 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: that this happens, and it's like I grow and shed 351 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: a skin inside my soul or something, and it takes 352 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 1: me a while to get my equilibrium back. To tell 353 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: you the truth, when we have lived through our own 354 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: personal devastation, when a world devastation sits next to it, 355 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: you realize how fragile you really are. We'll be back 356 00:20:47,800 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: with more. Sophie be Hawkins right after this. How old 357 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: are your children now? 358 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 2: Fifteen? About Dashles fourteen? He'll be fifteen November seventeenth, and 359 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 2: Esther is eight and she just turned eight in July. Wow. 360 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 2: Great ages. Yeah, it actually really is great. Dashls at 361 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: the age where he wakes himself up, he makes his 362 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 2: own breakfast, he cooks all the time. He's a very 363 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 2: good chef and he does He's very disciplined, he's very organized, 364 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 2: and he's very soulful and sort of like a natural Buddhist. 365 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 2: And Esther's at the age where she's challenging everything, and 366 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 2: I really like it because she's funny about it. It's 367 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 2: all really nice for me, and then it helps in 368 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 2: a way. You know, it's really interesting too. I can 369 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 2: do I can write songs with my children around. I 370 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 2: never could ever work in front of anybody else. In 371 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 2: a way. I love that I write all the music myself, 372 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 2: but there was also this feeling that I didn't really 373 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 2: want to share that part of myself or open it up. 374 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 2: And then I noticed it with my children, I can 375 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 2: do anything, write songs for course, song, sing hey in 376 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 2: front of them, and there's not this again. There's not 377 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 2: this to me that there. They don't want anything from me. 378 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 2: They're not trying to eat me up for dinner, they're 379 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 2: not trying to capture something. And this has been something 380 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: that I've really struggled with in the world, having been famous, 381 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 2: and you seem to feast off fame and it's not 382 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 2: an insult, it's not even a judgment. It seems like 383 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 2: it feeds you. And fame was very frightening to me. 384 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: Because well it was frightening to me. It was frightening 385 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: to me in retrospect. 386 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 2: Oh, I see. 387 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: But while I was on the wave, I knew I 388 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: had to surf, So I stayed on that wave and 389 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: focused and did the wave. But when I got back 390 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: to the beach, all these years on the beach, Wow, 391 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: terrifying to be in the big waves, Like, I am 392 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: much more comfortable in my life at having the level 393 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: of notoriety that I do, where I can go to 394 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: the Beyonce concert and you know, people are just friendly 395 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: and I'm in a normal seat. I'm not in some VIP, 396 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: you know, and it's nice. It's nice to sort of 397 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: have have my life feel like mine again. 398 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was so desperately afraid to lose that mind. 399 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 2: And you know what, also because rose the artists, I 400 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 2: think I haven't thought about it too much, but I 401 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 2: think the artist is the person who creates their work 402 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 2: and they own their work. And there are very few 403 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 2: things you can do on this earth for money that 404 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 2: you actually own what you do, that it is your work. 405 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: And so a lot of people can become extremely successful 406 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 2: or not, but they don't own what they do at 407 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,959 Speaker 2: the end of the day. Right the artist does. And 408 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 2: I had some you know, I've always identified very strongly 409 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 2: with what I'm creating, and I wanted above all to 410 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 2: be the artist that I could be by the time 411 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 2: I die. I wanted to have fulfilled, to be the 412 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 2: greatest artist that I can be, and that it was 413 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 2: very hard for me to get identified with the world 414 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 2: because the world inside of me was the one that 415 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 2: was more important and I didn't want it chipped away 416 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 2: at or touched. And so I think one growth now 417 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 2: as an older person and as a mother, is realizing 418 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 2: that I can be permeable, that I can be that 419 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 2: even a stronger artist. I love my new songs. They're 420 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 2: different than the old songs, but they're just as strong 421 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 2: and beautiful and performing now is so natural. Where I 422 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 2: used to think, Oh, I have to be nervous and 423 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: you know, do calisthenics before I go on. Now I 424 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 2: just and myself, I walk on it, and I just 425 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 2: love that there's no difference between the Sophia on stage 426 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 2: and the Sofia who climbs back into bed. Yeah. 427 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: Well that should be the goal of of every person, 428 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: because whether it's fame or not. You know, at work 429 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: people are different, and you know, but to have that 430 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: kind of merge of all the different facets and aspects 431 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: of yourself so that you're steady and calm in who 432 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: you are is the biggest gift you could give yourself, 433 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:19,479 Speaker 1: you know. 434 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 2: And it's not easy to attain. 435 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: It takes age and wisdom and work and for me 436 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: therapy and art and music and my therapy. 437 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love mine too. 438 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: Really, do you have a good therapist. I have a 439 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: wonderful therapist, and my other one about a few years 440 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: five years, six years ago retired and I thought I'm 441 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: never going to find another one, and I did, and 442 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: her name is Ann and she's very very helpful to 443 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: me in my life and world. Not having a partner, 444 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: I need the help. 445 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 2: You know. It's strangely enough, I've never really had a 446 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 2: partner with my children because even though I was in 447 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 2: the partnership and I had Dashel, that person didn't wasn't 448 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: really interesting and being a parent, And that's, you know, 449 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 2: in a big way why the relationship split up, probably 450 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 2: at the end of the day. So I sometimes wonder 451 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 2: if it would be easier or harder with a partner, 452 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 2: because some of the ease of not having a partner 453 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,959 Speaker 2: is not fighting with somebody correct over things. And I 454 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 2: like coming to a consensus over time with my kids, 455 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 2: and I would, you know how I like my time 456 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 2: to make decisions. I would don't think it would be 457 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 2: easy for me to be the same mother if I 458 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 2: was working against someone. And even some very strong friends 459 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 2: I've had have been very difficult to have around because 460 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 2: they're so opinionated and so wrong. The thing is, every 461 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: time you have an opinion so wrong is the best 462 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 2: part of it, because if you if you have an 463 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 2: opinion about how a child should be, you're already wrong, 464 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 2: right right, because what does anyone know about what someone 465 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 2: else should be? 466 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's interesting self having Dakota, who has autism. 467 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: Everyone in my world feels as though they have the right, 468 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: even though they've never parented an autistic kid, to tell 469 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: me what's right and wrong about her behavior and how 470 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: she is. You know, my other children do it. I'm like, so, 471 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: do you think that I needed guidance when I was 472 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: doing this with you? Do you think I needed someone 473 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: telling me whether or not she should be allowed to 474 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: wear crocs? 475 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 2: You know? 476 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like to the some fancy, I'm like, 477 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: I don't really care what she wears as long as 478 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: she's they are comfortable. And then you know, calling them 479 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: the pronouns they prefer, they and them. My older kids like, 480 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 1: why are you doing that? She's too young to choose that. 481 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, because she asked me to. That's why I'm doing. 482 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: If a child asked you something, that's it. And that's 483 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: already showing that. It's like, she's way beyond so many people, 484 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: you know. I think also the proof is in the putting. 485 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,239 Speaker 2: I love old sayings, but now that I have an 486 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 2: almost fifteen year old and I can see how he's developed, 487 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 2: and I can say to myself, I don't want to 488 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 2: argue with people and say, you know, I was right 489 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 2: about all this stuff. But I do notice that I 490 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 2: was because I love this part of you. Tell me 491 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 2: why you were right? Tell well, because I see how 492 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 2: independent and calm he is. I see him making such 493 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 2: great decisions daily and not asking for anyone's opinion. He's 494 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 2: even the way he sets up his room, cleans his rum, 495 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 2: the choices he makes in what he wants to do 496 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 2: over the summer, all the things he does, they're so 497 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 2: first of all, beyond me. There's nothing that I could 498 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 2: have ever thought of, and the fact that they come 499 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 2: from him and that he does them and with such clarity. Seriously, 500 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 2: I'm amazed. And people said, you're too close to you 501 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 2: go no such thing, right. I agree, you shouldn't. You 502 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 2: shouldn't be reading him stories at eleven hang falling to 503 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: sleep next to him. And I always thought, you know, 504 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 2: he'll let me know, just like to go to he 505 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 2: will let me know when he's done with something. And 506 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 2: boy does he let me know in the most graceful way. 507 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 2: He just lets me know when he's onto something new 508 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 2: or done with something. And so that's what I mean. 509 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 2: What I say I'm right is that I see him 510 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 2: making phenomenon choices for himself. That's great. So, yes, it 511 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 2: really is. 512 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: But you know, first of all, you got the genes, 513 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: and you got the environment, and then you get the 514 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: roll of the dice, right, you know, each one is different. 515 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: And I think what you've found is, UH is a 516 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: beautiful way to live in unison with two other equal humans. 517 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: That's what I see. That's what I see you doing. Yeah, yes, 518 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: and that it's very beautiful. So the way the way 519 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: you are in the world, the way that you perceive 520 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: life and live it is, UH remains inspiring to me. 521 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it always was. 522 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: It always was, and and uh, I want you to 523 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: know that the new the new record that I just 524 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: just got is fantastic. And I love that I say 525 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: record because no kids even have a concept of that anymore. 526 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: But it is on Spotify and everywhere else. You get 527 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: the whole record on Spotify Free Myself and I love 528 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: that love Yourself song. I think it's so so wonderful. 529 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: So you yeah, which which joy is it? 530 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 2: Well? You could tell. I went to a party. The 531 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 2: folks were five. Yeah, coconut cake d I called red wine. 532 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 2: Can't you imagine? I can imagine. Then I came home 533 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 2: and instead of saying I'm a that pig, and I 534 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 2: shouldn't have done that. I said the thought, like the 535 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 2: lyrics say, you would not believe the thoughts in my head, 536 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 2: Oh baby, love yourself. It literally happened, and it was 537 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't that, it was I am programmed 538 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 2: to love myself. Is that all those years of consciously 539 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: working on getting rid of the negativity and getting rid 540 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 2: of the dependency on everyone else's contrude, Well, finally the 541 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 2: thoughts came healthy and clear and they were there. And 542 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: that's what I want to say to everybody. It does work. 543 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 2: Every step you take towards freeing yourself, to love yourself, 544 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 2: to be yourself, it all works, and there will be 545 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 2: that moment. I had a moment. I was standing, I 546 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 2: was just about to dive into a pool. It was 547 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 2: about a week ago, and I said, my home, my 548 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 2: actual home, is my mind. So right, and so it's 549 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: one thing to always hear meditate you live inside yourself, 550 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 2: but it's another thing to actually realize that the contents 551 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,959 Speaker 2: that the space in my mind, the way that I 552 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 2: feel in my mind, is actually my world. Every think 553 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 2: about it. So I was smiling as I almost dove 554 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 2: into this water, and I said, because my mind is 555 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 2: phenomenal for me, it's only good for me. 556 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: But I was like, this is I wouldn't say only, 557 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say only, well, but when you understand it best. 558 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And then I said to myself, and the 559 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 2: tag line is I don't need a facelift because I'm 560 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 2: actually living in my mind, not my body, and the 561 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: facelift won't help my mind. 562 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: Right, it might twist your mind because you end up 563 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: not looking like who you are what you got. 564 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 2: And then when people look at me, they won't see 565 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 2: my mind. They'll see either a bad or good facelift, 566 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 2: or they'll wonder whether I had one. They won't be 567 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 2: looking at me through my eyes, and they won't be 568 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 2: seeing my thoughts going into their head. 569 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: And then I think, that's why I think for actresses, 570 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: you're taking away your instruments. 571 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 2: You are so right, it is still important. And I 572 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 2: and my son said debate. He said, if you ever 573 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 2: have a facelift, I will be so upset with you 574 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 2: and every friend you have who's approved of it, and 575 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 2: every friend you have who has a facelift. I don't 576 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 2: want to know about that. 577 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: You raised a strong feminist boy, that's fantastic. 578 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 4: Yes, but can't you believe I had this concept that 579 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 4: the facelift is actually something that destroys your confidence and 580 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 4: that all women and men have to realize that you actually. 581 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 2: Are living in your mind, and when you get that, 582 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,479 Speaker 2: you start really changing the way you do things and 583 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: think things. 584 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: You know. What allowed me to get there is watching 585 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: my daughter, my ten year old. She They are in 586 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: their minds all the time. Sometimes I'll ask them a 587 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,719 Speaker 1: question in the car when there's quiet, and I'll say, 588 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: are you excited about the second day of school this morning? 589 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 1: And they'll respond, I really don't feel like talking right now, 590 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: and I will say okay, And then, you know, no 591 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: qualifications for it, not I'm sorry, not what she thinks 592 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 1: and what's happening in her mind. Their mind is the 593 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: only thing that's important. Yes to them, Yes, yeah. The 594 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: new record is very revealing about your It's kind of 595 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: almost a breakup record. 596 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 2: Would you say? 597 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, it's a break about it? Yeah? And better 598 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: off without You pretty much says it. 599 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 2: All right, it does, it does, and then the tagline 600 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 2: I hope you heal your heart. It's like realizing that 601 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 2: I'm realizing anybody realizes they're better off without somebody than 602 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 2: is huge. Yeah, then there's no reason to cry. There 603 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 2: was that moment where I was on the streets of 604 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 2: Manhattan and I had been, you know, upset, remembering this 605 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 2: and that and what happened to all my money and 606 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 2: what happened all this, what happened in my career. And 607 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 2: then suddenly I said, Sophie, why are you crying? You 608 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,439 Speaker 2: could justice easily be laughing. None of that stuff ever 609 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 2: mattered to you, none of it right. In fact, you 610 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 2: probably wanted out of the relationship a long time ago. 611 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 2: You did, didn't you, Sophie, I asked myself, So why 612 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 2: are you sort of hanging on to this sad sack 613 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 2: thing of like I lost this and I lost that 614 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 2: and my son lost his other parent. Thank god, my 615 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 2: son lost his other parent. 616 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: Frankly, well, she didn't really want a parent though, that's 617 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: fat So could she really not? 618 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 2: If you don't want to? And without and again without 619 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 2: judging it, without casting this versions, the cleanest thing is 620 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 2: to say, oh you don't, okay, we'll go by right, 621 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 2: but so you know, But so it's the all humans 622 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 2: we have. It's what they call hysterical, is historical. That's 623 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,280 Speaker 2: what I've learned. So even though the breakup was actually 624 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 2: the best thing that could have happened, I was traumatized 625 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 2: to by being betrayed. You lied to my face, you're 626 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 2: still my happiness. And in the second verse, and then 627 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,439 Speaker 2: you took my best friend to bed. All these things 628 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 2: are true. Everything I write in songs is true. What 629 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 2: I say outside of songs, who knows, but the songs 630 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 2: are the truth. You're so cute that you laugh at that, 631 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 2: But anyway, it's true. When I sing that song, I 632 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 2: say before the song, if you haven't experienced something like this, 633 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 2: you haven't lived yet. Because it's really great to be 634 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 2: able to separate. Anyway, I think I said it. I 635 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 2: think the song says it better than me. But that 636 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 2: moment I realized, I said, why are you crying about 637 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 2: things you never even cared about? 638 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so true, and that's so freedom. You know, 639 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: it's such freedom. I mean, I have, you know, a 640 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: couple of friends, and we have different feelings on what 641 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: fame is and whether or not it does feed you. 642 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: And I know that there are people who take it 643 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: so much more seriously than me. Then it's a very 644 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: hard kind of friendship to manage sometimes, you know, because 645 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: you know what it is is an illusion anyway, Right, 646 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: it's a it's projection, and it's people cast you in 647 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: the movie role that they want you to be, and 648 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: you know you don't have any control over like Hamilton, 649 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: who lives, who dies? 650 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 2: Who tells your story? Right? 651 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 1: You got to live in the truth and know that 652 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,439 Speaker 1: the rest of it you again have no control over. 653 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: We're back there, Rose, That's really interesting. It's an interesting conversation. 654 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 2: See, I don't actually hang out with famous people, and 655 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 2: it's not on purpose. I always feel like I'm not 656 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 2: famous enough for famous people won't really like me because 657 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 2: I'm not really in this scene. So I don't have 658 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 2: this discussion with anybody. And my kids always say I 659 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 2: if I don't know, they always think I'm just really 660 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 2: not successful. And that's okay too. I don't have this discussion. 661 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 2: But sometimes I feel like I should push myself to 662 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 2: be famous. That's what I'm trying to say, and that 663 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 2: was actually what pushed me to the realizing that I 664 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 2: don't have to. I'm living in my mind. I don't 665 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 2: have to be famous in my own mind. I just 666 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 2: have to be me and enjoy what I'm doing. That's 667 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 2: what This push, this fuel that you have to be 668 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 2: famous is a very big pressure. 669 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: Well, and it used to be that only entertainers felt this, 670 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: but now teenagers feel this because you're right and you 671 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: can get all of the perks of quote unquote celebrity. 672 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: The photo shoots on the beach. I mean, you're lucky 673 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: that your first child is the sun because by the 674 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,839 Speaker 1: time that you know, the girls hit iPhone age, their 675 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 1: whole life is about the image they're creating. And I 676 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,240 Speaker 1: think it's so damaging because we've seen through you know, history, 677 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,439 Speaker 1: the toxic effects of fame, and people have talked about 678 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: it a lot. But yes, for it to be the 679 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: number one thing that teenagers want to be, a YouTube 680 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 1: influencer to be, you know, some made up image on 681 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: your TikTok, on your your wherever you're doing it. You know, 682 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty intense. But listen self. It's great to 683 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,240 Speaker 1: see you. I'm sorry I missed you and Judy Collins 684 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: the night of the hurricane earthquake. Yes, what did you 685 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: feel the earthquake? Because you were right there. 686 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 2: We got out of the car to get the Starbucks 687 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,240 Speaker 2: before we went to the theater and the earthquake happened 688 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 2: right there as we opened the door and be driven 689 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 2: to the hurricane to get to that place. Wow, that 690 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 2: was something. Now I think this is a of course, 691 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 2: it's going to happen a lot more. 692 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:02,240 Speaker 1: I agreeviously, get ready because it's here. You know, it's terrifying. Listen, 693 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: I love you very much. I missed you those years 694 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: we didn't speak to each other. We're devoid of kind 695 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,719 Speaker 1: of this kind of conversation and I've missed this. So 696 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: the record free myself Sophie B. Hawkins on Spotify or 697 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: wherever you get your tunes, and thank you for being here. Okay, 698 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: everybody stick around. We'll be back with questions from you 699 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: the Loyal Listener. 700 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 2: Did you enjoy that? I hope you did. 701 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,720 Speaker 1: We have some questions right now from you the Loyal Listener. 702 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,759 Speaker 1: And I never hear these until they roll them. And 703 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: I'm always overwhelmed by the kindness of strangers. So you're 704 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: really strangers. You're sort of stranger friends your listeners out there. 705 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 2: But here we go. Take a listen. 706 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 5: Hey, Rosie, this is Andrew and I am reaching out 707 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 5: to you from Boston, Massachusetts. I am a huge fan 708 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 5: of yours. I have been since I was a kid 709 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 5: in the nineties watching your show every single day. My 710 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,280 Speaker 5: question for you is, I've recently been watching YouTube clips 711 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 5: of Emmy Awards from the nineties, and I keep rewatching 712 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,280 Speaker 5: the moment in nineteen ninety nine when Susan Lucci finally 713 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 5: won the Emmy after nineteen nominations, and you are very 714 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 5: prominent in that shot and in that moment as you're 715 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,959 Speaker 5: sitting what looks right behind her or next to her, 716 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 5: And I cry every time I see this moment, and 717 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 5: the room just erupted in so much joy and it 718 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 5: was so moving. Could you kind of reflect on what 719 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 5: that moment was like? You looked very emotional and were crying, 720 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 5: but it just strikes me as such an iconic moment 721 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 5: in TV history. Susan Luci's amazing and to think she 722 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:28,800 Speaker 5: was nominated nineteen times until she finally won, it's crazy. Anyway, 723 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 5: I just would love to hear you you kind of 724 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 5: reflect on that night. Love you love the podcast. 725 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,480 Speaker 1: Thanks well, Thank you, Andrew, sweet sweet, sweet of you 726 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 1: to leave that message. You know, I recently saw that 727 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,279 Speaker 1: clip on TikTok too, and I got all choked up, 728 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 1: you know, I was raised on Long Island, and I 729 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: knew Susan Lucci lived on Long Island, and that was 730 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 1: like a huge thing that I used to drive around. 731 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:03,360 Speaker 1: Jackie's grandmother lived in this same neighborhood as Susan Lucci, 732 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,280 Speaker 1: so I would always drive around try to find Susan 733 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: Lucci's house. My nana loved all my children back when 734 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 1: it was like a Bibleish book opening done and no, no, no, no. 735 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: We watched it together and I've been watching it, you 736 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: know since I was a little girl. I grew up 737 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 1: really loving Erica Kine and everyone in daytime loved her. 738 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 1: She is the kindest, the sweetest, the I just think 739 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: she's fantastic and what career she has had, you know, 740 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 1: for so many people, so defining of our teen years 741 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: and you know for me my teen years and all 742 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: the way up until it went off the air, which 743 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: I'm still upset about. But that night I sat next 744 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 1: to her, and I had been there, you know, many 745 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: times the Emmys and she always lost and we were friendly. 746 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: You know, she did my show often. I was on 747 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: all my Children as her maid Naomi, and I just 748 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: adore her. So I was very moved when she won 749 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,359 Speaker 1: now before at the commercial break before I leaned over 750 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,760 Speaker 1: and I said, do you want me to hold your purse? 751 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 1: If you win? Hand me your purse, and she's like, 752 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna win, Rosie. I'm like, you're gonna win, 753 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 1: Susan Lucci, And she won, and then she gave me 754 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,799 Speaker 1: the purse. So I was just so happy for her 755 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: and so happy for the tsunami of applause that waved 756 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,120 Speaker 1: over the whole crowd and smashed into her there on 757 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: the stage. And it was a beautiful, beautiful night and 758 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: one of the best moments of all the Emmy Awards 759 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: I've ever been to. So thank you, Andrew, thank you 760 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 1: very much. And we have time for one more listener. 761 00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: Here we go. 762 00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:02,400 Speaker 2: Rolet. This is John from West. 763 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 3: Harford, Connecticut, and I don't really have a question, but 764 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 3: I wanted to share some feedback on the podcast. When 765 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:14,880 Speaker 3: I started listening to your podcast, I was really interested 766 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,760 Speaker 3: to hear the interviews with your celebrity friends like Kathy 767 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:23,360 Speaker 3: Griffin and Ricky Lake, and I thought they'd be fun 768 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 3: and entertaining, which they were. So when you had your 769 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 3: first interview with a non celebrity person, I almost didn't 770 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:38,279 Speaker 3: listen and I think that person was Reality Winner, but 771 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 3: I started to listen and was really drawn into her 772 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 3: story in the interview. And then you had the weight 773 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,479 Speaker 3: loss doctor, doctor Rosen as your guest, and I thought 774 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,839 Speaker 3: the same thing. I thought, Oh, it's not a celebrity, 775 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,960 Speaker 3: I'm not going to listen. I want something light. But 776 00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:01,480 Speaker 3: I started listening and so interested in what he had 777 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,600 Speaker 3: to say. And then since then you've done like Marcy 778 00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 3: Marie Simmons and of course Alexander Vinman and Lyel Menandez, 779 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 3: you know, who are well known but really not celebrities 780 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 3: but just well known because of their circumstances. 781 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 2: And I really enjoyed those. 782 00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 3: And what I'm finding is that I'm really enjoying these 783 00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 3: non celebrity interviews. And I don't know whether anybody has 784 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,440 Speaker 3: told you this yet, but you definitely have a different 785 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 3: energy in those interviews. You are I think, more inquisitive 786 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,399 Speaker 3: and interested or inquisitive and interested in a different way 787 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 3: with what they have to say. And I actually love 788 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:53,719 Speaker 3: that I'm learning things from those interviews. So although I 789 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 3: enjoy the celebrity friends interviews without a doubt, these others 790 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 3: have now become my favorites. So I just wanted to totally 791 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,439 Speaker 3: encourage you to do more of them. And I want 792 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,799 Speaker 3: to thank you Rosie for the podcast and all the 793 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 3: entertaining that you've done for all of us for these 794 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:18,920 Speaker 3: many years. And I will be listening, and I wanted 795 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,040 Speaker 3: to say it was fun seeing your big win on 796 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 3: Pyramid this week. 797 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 2: Thanks Rosie. 798 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: Oh John, you are you the most adorable I have 799 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,359 Speaker 1: to say. You know, when we started the podcast, I 800 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,719 Speaker 1: wasn't really sure what to do because I didn't really 801 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: listen to very many. I've listened to a couple, but 802 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: I'm not a devoted listener. I hadn't studied it, you know. 803 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 1: So when I got the podcast, I said, let's start 804 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,400 Speaker 1: with my friends. You're right to notice there's a difference 805 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,920 Speaker 1: when I interview someone like reality winner or Amy Nelson 806 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: or Alexander Vine. I feel so responsible to accurately reflect 807 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,759 Speaker 1: the truth of their story and allow them to speak it. 808 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,880 Speaker 1: That it's a different energy completely than when it's a 809 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:19,080 Speaker 1: buddy and we're just kidden around. Or perhaps because their performers, 810 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,759 Speaker 1: a bit of the performer in me comes out a 811 00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: little more than it does in the interview with the 812 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:29,960 Speaker 1: non famous person. But I agree, I am so thankful 813 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: that you took the time to listen when you didn't 814 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,279 Speaker 1: think it was something interesting. And know that I will 815 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,719 Speaker 1: never have a guest on that I'm not completely interested 816 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,680 Speaker 1: in because I can't do that. Thank you for listening. 817 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,920 Speaker 1: If you want to leave a message Onward Rosie at 818 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: gmail dot com, that's Onward Rosie at gmail dot com. 819 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,879 Speaker 1: Make yourself a voice memo and then send it over 820 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,200 Speaker 1: to us. And it's easier than it sounds. Try it 821 00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:00,319 Speaker 1: once and you'll get it. And thank you and Drew 822 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,960 Speaker 1: and thank you John. I really do appreciate it. Next 823 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,759 Speaker 1: week we have Angela Tucker. Angela Tucker has a new 824 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 1: book out called You Should be Grateful About Being a 825 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:15,759 Speaker 1: Transracial Adoptee. It's a wonderful book. She's made a documentary 826 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:20,240 Speaker 1: that I really really loved years ago, and we connected 827 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,160 Speaker 1: a little bit on that one, and I'm so happy 828 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,080 Speaker 1: to talk to her about her book and her experience 829 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:29,120 Speaker 1: and her expertise. So take a listen next week Angela 830 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,160 Speaker 1: Tucker right here on Onward